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Muslim Congressman Andre Carson's Modest Proposal: Remake American Education System with Madrassas

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...to hear Representative Andre Carson (D-IN) talk they were deprived of a good education. They might as well have not had any at all. Carson is a Muslim; he believes America should change its educational system—make it more user friendly. It should adopt the most successful system in the world—the Madrassas.


muslim-congressman-andre-carson-madrassa-america

andre-carson-madrasa-american-education-system

Congressman Andre Carson (above): Madrassa Ideal Education
System for America

Jethro Bodine went to Oxford—not exactly a finishing school. Tom and Huck matriculated at Coon Hollow Prep—a word they never understood. And Rosie O’Donnell—well, the less said about Rosie, the better. They all turned out pretty well. Or is that very well?

But to hear Representative Andre Carson (D-IN) talk they were deprived of a good education. They might as well have not had any at all. Carson is a Muslim; he believes America should change its educational system—make it more user friendly. It should adopt the most successful system in the world—the Madrassas.

Now Jethro inherited his money from his Uncle Jed; Tom and Huck owed everything to Mark Twain; and Rosie’s big mouth was actually her own doing. On the other hand, Carson had to work hard for everything he got. There were no Madrassas in the US when he was growing up. He had to go to a public school. He graduated from Arsenal Technical High School. He got his start in law enforcement. He later joined the Indiana Department of Homeland Security and supervised an anti-terrorist unit in the Intelligence Fusion Center. And he did all this without having been schooled in a Madrassas. Who knows—if it hadn’t been for Carson’s hard work, the Chase Tower might have went down instead of the World Trade Center. If he had been schooled in a Madrassas only Allah could have known what might have happened.

Carson inherited his grandmother’s seat in Congress in 2008 in a special election. Though Julia Carson was a Baptist, she invited Louis Farrakhan to speak at her funeral. She had raised Andre and he had worked tirelessly for her in her reelection campaigns. She was a Liberal-progressive.

Andre converted to Islam in the 1990s. He says our schools should be modeled on the Islamic Madrassa. Innovation and ingenuity is encouraged in the Madrassa, he says.

It sounds good. A little innovation never hurt anybody. And ingenuity can keep a person’s fingers attached to his hand when he gets to monkeying around with a bomb.

Students in a Madrassas study the Qur’an. It’s not much different than the Bible—a little more up-to-date that’s all. Sure, there’s a lot of talk of eternal doom and curses on the unbelievers, and a striking off of heads, and of lying in wait and ambush for the disbelievers but there’s no bomb making.

It’s not much different from what Tom and Huck got from the Bible. God told the Jews to slay the Canaanites; Allah told the Muslims to slay the Jews, the Syrians, the Egyptians, the Hindus, the Buddhists, the Spaniards, the Crusaders, and eventually that new breed of Jew, the Israelis, and, of course, the Americans. Slay the unbeliever, smite off his fingertips, says the Qur’an. But “slaying” doesn’t really mean “slaying” in language of the Quran. 9/11 was an aberration. Sure!

Carson says only the Madrassas can meet the multiple needs of our students. Probably smiting necks of the infidels and cutting off their fingertips are amongst them. The God of the Bible got tired of slaying, after he rid the world of the Canaanites. He turned things over to his Son, who got involved in that separation of Church and State business. His Son? Isn’t that blasphemy? The Qur’an says so. So eternal doom to all the His followers!

Carson appears to be behind the curve on education. There are more Madrassas in the United States than Barack Obama knows what to do with, more than the Democrats can make excuses for. Why does he want more? Many of these Madrassas, if not all of them, are funded by Saudi Arabian petro-dollars. They teach Wahhabism.

Moderate Muslims will tell you Wahhabism is a fundamentalist movement, started in the 18th Century by Muhammad al-Wahhab. But it’s all about getting back to the basics of Islam – to the Quran and Sunna. It has nothing to do with the Muslim Brotherhood, with al-Qaeda, with Osama bin Laden, with terror, or with the Saudi government.

The Saudis have spent a lot of money the past twenty years building Madrassas all over the world—about $87 billion dollars. That’s a lot of barrels of oil. These schools teach impoverished children how to read and to study the Qur’an. It’s that simple. No one needs to worry. It’s the Qur’an. Didn’t Tom and Huck study the Bible at Coon Hollow Prep?

Moderate Muslims are not the best sources of information on Madrassas. The Saudi imposed curriculum is closer to the indoctrination Hans and Fritz received at the Horst Wessels Academy in Nazi Germany in 1938 than to anything Tom and Huck heard on the days they did show up for class. Madrassas students learn little of value except for religion.

In a study made by Vali Nasr of Pakistan Madrassas, it was discovered that most of the Malaysian and Thai students that returned to their native lands after graduation became at best hot-headed preachers spewing out hatred of Christians, Buddhists and animists or actually participated in terror themselves. As far as is known, the Pakistani graduates went to work immediately after receiving their certificates.

The Saudis fund a vast network of schools and charities stretching from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Uzbekistan to the Philippines. They are in Kosovo and Bosnia. They are in New Orleans and New York City.

Nasr writes:

“In order to have terrorists, in order to have supporters for terrorists, in order to have people who are willing to interpret religion in violent ways, in order to have people who are willing to legitimate crashing yourself into a building and killing 5,000 innocent people, you need particular interpretations of Islam. Those interpretations of Islam are being propagated out of schools that receive organizational and financial funding from Saudi Arabia. In fact, I would push it further that these schools would not have existed without Saudi backing.”

America needs Muslims, says Carson. Sure, like Germany needed Nazis in the 1930s and the South needed slave-traders like Nathan Bedford Forrest in the 1850s though in all fairness to Forrest, he did not want to foist his disease on the rest of America. If he had been a Muslim he would have been an advanced thinker.

Carson insists there are three kinds of learners and only the Madrassas can meet their needs. There are visual learners who learn by what they see; there are auditory learners that learn by what they hear; and, of course, the kinesthetic learner who learns by what he feels.

Tom and Huck leaned in their first day at Coon Hollow what took Carson a lifetime to figure out. They could see from the size of their reading books and the lack of pictures that education wasn’t going to be easy. They heard what the teacher said and they got to feel the sting of his rod. No one told them not to take the Cherokee and the Chippewa for friends. The Bible remained on the shelf.

From Zanzibar to Virginia, hatred is being taught in Madrassas. There are more than 2,000 Madrassas in England—that’s a scary total. Most of these Muslim schools are full time; some are part time.

Investigative reporters have managed to get undercover cameras into some of these Islamic schools. What they show is not heartening. Teachers refer to non-Muslims as Kuffars and other derogatory names; they tell their students that Hindus have no brains and drink cow urine. Students are frequently beaten. A few Madrassas are showcased for the press and the public. These schools have mixed-gender classes and preach tolerance of other religions. (Not acceptance, tolerance)

Dr. Taj Hargey, an academic and theologian, runs one of these part-time schools in Oxford. He said he set up the school because of complaints by Muslim parents of beatings. “It’s an outdated concept,” he said, “and if we inflict this violence we will sow the seeds of violence in them.”

Darul Uloom controls the Madrassas in England. The man behind Darul Uloom, is Riyadh ul-Haq. He was denied entrance to Canada a few years ago for his ties to terrorism.

Far more troubling than Carson’s stupid call to Talibanize the American school system was the support he received from the Democratic Party. No one condemned his speech. Islam is no different than Christianity said the Abrahamists. Tom and Huck could do with a little cultural diversity.

But striking off fingertips…

And then came Laura Ingraham on The Factor. She was subbing for Bill O’Reilly. She would put that clown Carson in his place. Of course, Carson refused to appear on The Factor. So Laura brought on Harris Zafar of the Muslim Ahmadiya community. Zafar is a member of Muslims for Peace.

Unfortunately Laura went into her Dennis Kucinich mode. She agreed with everything Zafar put in her mouth. Madrassas might be religious schools, but so were the hundreds of Catholic schools that populate America and no one has complained about them except for the ACLU, Michael Moore, Bill Maher and the thousands of Emma Goldman reading libraries scattered across America from Cambridge to Berkeley.

We can learn from each other, said Laura and Harris agreed. This is one great big country. There’s room for everybody and for a wide variety of opinions.

Once again a conservative, who would tremble with rage at the sight of David Duke, was unable to ask a tough question to a so-called moderate Muslim.

Laura, Laura, Laura, a moderate Muslim is no more moderate than a moderate Nazi or a moderate Klansman. Doesn’t it bother you that there are no ‘Liberal’ Muslims?

This brings up a serious question: Just how much money has Al-Waleed bin Talal sunk into FOX News? He is reportedly worth $18 billion. That can buy a lot of silence.

Maybe Laura has never read the Qur’an. If she had, she might have come to the same conclusion Bill Maher did. “It is a book full of hatred,” said Maher. Who would have thought Maher was ahead of Laura Ingraham in the war on terrorism? Andre Carson?

Comments (62)Add Comment
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MADrassa is so cool
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON , July 11, 2012



MADrassa is so cool.it shows u dreams of imaginary 72 virgins with big breasts wine and fun in imaginary jannat.

al ham dul ill aaaaahhhhhhhh
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Harkart
written by Malem , July 11, 2012
Show me where it says 72 virgins anywhere in the Quran you fool, you cannot.

If one looks at the essence of Mr Carsons discussion, which the above does not show as part of their slander bent, you would see it is not to establish madrassas. it is rather to look at the Madrassa and learn from it. The west is FULL of Faith Based Schools based on Jewish and Christian basics, Mr Carson says why not Islam and he is correct in that sense.
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malem yes i am fool pls tell me what awaits the jihadis in jannat ?
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON , July 11, 2012



malem yes u r right i am a fool.pls tell me what awaits u jihadis in jannat ?? no houries ? no wine ? pls tell me what awaits u jihadis in imaginary jannat ??
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judeo xtianity jihadislam is a false ideology
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON , July 11, 2012



judeo xtianity jihadisialm is a false ideology.there is no jehova/jesus/allah.i am ex-muslim from 1992.

0
u people killed over 100 million indians let us kill 100 million jihadis first then we talk
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON , July 11, 2012

in last 1200 yrs u jihadis killed over 100 million indians let us kill 100 million jihadis first then we talk.

0
...
written by berq to malem , July 11, 2012
Malem you did ask Harkart that he should show you where in the quran mention 72 virgins?I would like to ask you could you show the iw readers where he has mention in the quran?He did not mention word quran in his post.you are not only fool but true muslim.Did Madrassas not teaches hadeths and quran as well?If you want to make sure that how many virgins will be available in the muslim jana please read authentic hadiths.Do you believe in hadiths or not?
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Ex Muslim scum
written by abc , July 11, 2012
Is that what you dream about? Is that your exmuslim wet dream?
To kill a 100 million!
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Danger of the madrassas
written by Walter Sieruk , July 11, 2012
With this guy said it's thus a good time to repeat what Don Richardson wrote in his book SECRETS OF THE KORAN on pages 69,70. under the subtitle "Danger in the madrasas" Which reads "The word needs to be warned. At least 40 million Muslim youth in the world's religious schools ,called madrassas, are avidly memorizing the entire Koran plus a generally extremist body of related traditions - the hadiths...these schools become breeding ground for potential terrorists...When male students, isolated from family and friends in madrasas, reach puberty and their hormones are active, there are no girls to date. Instead, Muslim clerics easily shift to focusing the male student's attention on Koranic verses that promise sex in heaven with dark-eyed houris. Students can only fantasize about martydom followed by the sexual release Mohammed promised. This is an unspeakably cruel brainwashing technique and the Koran is its perfect guidebook."
0
Impressive future.
written by Dwito , July 11, 2012
Fantastic! Now american children will learn how their forefathers were butchered by Mo and they will be proud for that. Lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Madrassas
written by balam , July 11, 2012
You can see how the Madrassas in Pakistan have created havoc in that country.Thanks to Saudi Arabia,the source of all EVIL.They are going to reap what they are sowing.Any one who suggests Madrassas for America is the worst enemy of the country and people who support him should be considered enemies within.They are like the SNAKE in your sleeve.There is a saying that all the SNAKES are dangerous but the one in your sleeve is most dangerous.America seems to be heading for a lot of trouble in future unless ISLAM is eradicated from that country.Never forget 9/11 because it could happen again and this time the Muslim Terrorist could use NUCLEAR WEAPONS.DON'T EVER UNDERESTIMATE A DETERMINED ENEMY.
0
This is what he actually said
written by abc , July 11, 2012
0
harkat
written by malem , July 11, 2012
Thank you for admitting you are a fool, its a start. Berg show me the 72 dope
0
stupid
written by Guy Macher , July 12, 2012
This joker is stupider than top soil.
0
hmmm..
written by lol , July 12, 2012
so....they want to take over our school system now. great.
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@ Malem
written by balam , July 12, 2012
Mohammad has been one of the greatest SNAKE OIL SALESMAN of the world.Inspite of his mental illnesses,he was quite good at selling the product which people love most.THAT IS SEX AND SAVAGERY.HE HAS MANAGED TO DECEIVE BILLIONS OF MUSLIMS.ANY ONE WHO IS NOT A MUSLIM SHOULD CONSIDER HIMSELF LUCKY.ISLAM TURNS YOUR BRAIN 180 DEGREES ,from normal to ABNORMAL.ONCE YOU FALL INTO THE TRAP OF ISLAM,IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO ESCAPE.YOU COULD EASILY BE KILLED BECAUSE :THERE IS NO COMPASSION IN RELIGION{ISLAM} READ SURA 2:256 in my quran
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malem....what awaits u jihadis in imaginary jannat ?? celebact ? or unlimited sexy ?
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON , July 12, 2012
hello jihadi malem,what awaits u jihadis in imaginary jannat ? celebacy ? or unlimited sex,wine etc ?

as ex-muslims one of the reasons for leaving jihadis is that i was horrifyed by the STORY that wine is haram here but near to imaginary allah in imaginary jannat wine is halal.WHAT STUPIDITY IS THIS ??

in earth 4 wife but unlimited sex slaves,and in jannat hot hot hot big breasted virgins.all this i learnt from mullas koran hadith.

what type of crap is this judeo xtianity jihadism monoatheist who's god does not love humanity unconditionally but is a gangster and wants to put people into imaginary hell.

kafir gods ram,krishna,etc kill demons and save humanity.

semitic jew deity jehova/allah creates demon-shaitan to misguide and harass humanity.so jehova/allah is creator of all evil.how can anyone worship this imaginary hateful evil jehova/allah ? only if he is BRAIN DEAD AND AFTER ETERNAL ERECTION SEX AND WINE.

world is anyday and anyway better off as a truthseeker than being a jihadimuslim.

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HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON
written by Yibel , July 12, 2012
What ever gave you the idea that Judaism and Christianity have anything to do with Islam? Islam has nothing in common with them. The two deities are completely different! The rules of conduct are completely different!

Islam hates, repeat, Hates Christians and Jews - also everyone else, including Muslims who don't conform to whatever standard the imams have set.

According to the Qur'an, Islam's gawds (there are 99 of them) hate humans and designed a horrible hell for those they decide to lead astray. I agree - this is CRAP

The Judeo-Christian god cares for everyone. He created humans IN HIS IMAGE, so they could be with him in heaven - where there is no marriage BTW, and no houris (hot big breasted virgins) or pearly boys, not even male or female, and NO wine. Wine is for people here on earth to enjoy; grapes ferment naturally due to the yeast on the surface of the grape - so wine is for the here and now.

The only reason that people get confused and think that Islam is an Abrahamic religion is because Muhammad filched some tales from the Talmud and some other Jewish literature and threw in a few other myths to fill out his Qur'an. The Jews didn't buy it, and neither did the Christians. So he killed the Jews. And the Christians, seeing a wolf in sheep's clothing, all packed up and headed for Constantinople.

BTW, Rama and Krishna are both avatars of Vishnu, the Hindu preserver god.
0
man is not created by any god
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON , July 12, 2012



the poison of judaism and crusader ideology is well imprinted in india by the portuguese crusaders.

islam copies judaism and islam.

pls read torah,talmud,old testement.

we r all children of the divine god = mother nature.we r indivisible part of her divinity.

no male judeoxtianjihadi male deity created man,man is evoled by truth=god=mother nature.

mother nature is creator preserver destroyed.
0
if u dont bow to jehova/jesus alone / exclusive then he puts u in imaginary hell forever
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON , July 12, 2012
if u dont bow to jehova/jesus alone / exclusive then he puts u in imaginary hell forever
0
west school system
written by malem , July 12, 2012
Seems with the dismal performance of the grade school system in the states, they might want to look at other possibilities or you will be in danger of producing a low level educated population of 5th grade level maturity, case in point balam and harkat
0
malem pls join osama bin laden for fun....dont stay on earth
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON , July 12, 2012


malem pls join muhamed and osama bin laden in imaginary jannat dont stay on earth.yr imaginary wine and houres r calling u.

if jihadi madrassa education is so good by islam is world most backward religion and muslims most backward ??
0
harkat
written by malem , July 12, 2012
Your response and its content prove my point about 5th grade education, thank you!
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west school system...malem
written by Amboyduke , July 12, 2012
For once I agree with you...the performance of our school system is MORE than dismal...it's atrocious.
The grammar, composition, syntax, spelling, cursive, penmanship are all hideous, not to mention the math and history...
there is an "agenda in the woodpile", so to speak...and it is dumbing down the entire western world...no need to dumb down the middle east...they are already there, except for Israel...and the Chinese and Japanese.
This world is in such a mess...
0
Islamic education, NO!
written by Worldpeace , July 12, 2012
Islamic education is no education and it shows.
0
The students in the photo are being taught this;
written by dead or alive , July 13, 2012
Fear-Those wiho have nothing to hide have noting to fear.Love Islam comes frist before family,a displace love.Emptiness-The teacher will tell the kids what and how to think.Sex-Endless sex in the hereafter.Hate.The strawman is coming to get us.Slay them where you find the unbelievers.....And I disbelieve.
0
exterminate Islam
written by batul , July 13, 2012
Muslims needs to be taught a solid lesson, otherwise they will not come down to earth.
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , July 13, 2012
US sponsors madrassas in Pakistan.
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...
written by Reed Wilson , July 13, 2012
US sponsors madrassas in Pakistan.
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jihadi malem u still did not give me reply
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON , July 13, 2012


jihadimalem.maybe we r 5 th grade but u r in kindergarten with yr thoughts if wine and houries.

u jihadis created an imaginary brothel with sex debauchary and wine so u can have flase satisfaction of killing people without guilt.

u jihadis hv sunk below the level of any l;iving being in yr false beliefe and will do anything incl killing human beings to go to imaginary jannat for wine and babes.

in madrassa wine and sex is haram,then why in imaginary jannat its halal ? basically u r doing all the effort to get brainwashed to do jihad so u can get wine sex and more in imaginary jannat.

yr imaginary jannat is just a brothel.

it is high time judeoxtianityjihadislam is deleted from humanity history forever.
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , July 13, 2012
US sponsors Madrasas in Pakistan. US can declare Jihad whenever they like and stop it also. They have control on syllabus at the madrasas.
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US should not go this path
written by Vineet Bhardwaj , July 13, 2012
For Islam country is secondary and Islam is primary, therefore you have such nonsensical ideas/demands. For a country which faced such a big act of terrorism allowing Madarsas to grow is sheer stupidity.

May be politicians all across the world are only attracted to Votes and nothing else.

We, in India, have too many such politicians who knowing fully well that Muslims vote en-block, allow them to get away with murder. Our Intelligence Bureau had a few years back reported that illegal migration has altered the demographic map of the region around bangladesh, but no politician has ever asked tough questions on the same. Infact it is very difficult to deport an illegal migrant as per the act relating to illegal migrants act.

In name of democracy US should not fall prey to this trap. US should tell back these Muslims that look at Hindu community from India, who have excelled in US without asking for such special treatment.

US do not go down this lane !!!
0
Loonwatch...
written by Jye , July 13, 2012
is an example of where the hard left have allied themselves with Islamists and other totalitarian ideologies, such as communism. To reference that site is ridiculous.
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@REED WILSON
written by balam , July 13, 2012
YOU ARE THE BIGGEST LIAR FOR WHICH NO BODY SHOULD BE SURPRISED BECAUSE YOU ARE BASICALLY A MUSLIM.IT IS SAUDI ARABIA WHICH HAS SET UP THOSE MADRESSAS IN PAKISTAN TO TEACH QURAN AND PRODUCE TERRORIST THROUGH ITS INDOCTRINATION BECAUSE ISLAM AND TERRORISM ARE THE TWO SIDES OF THE SAME COIN.THAT COIN WAS MINTED BY NO OTHER THAN MOHAMMAD bin ABDULLA-THE TERRORIST NO.1 HIMSELF.
0
@Reed
written by balam , July 14, 2012
It is common with Muslims to blame America or Israel for all their woes.In fact it is SAUDI ARABIA PLANTING AND FINANCING the Madrassas all over the world including Pakistan.No Muslim country could ever be a genuine friend of the West because of clash of ISLAM WITH JUDEO CHRISTIAN FAITH AND VALUES.THE FRIENDSHIP will always be superficial.
0
typical
written by malem , July 14, 2012
None of the phobes can stay on topic for more than 5 posts before ranting on some crap like Balam.

Look at the Wests education system it is producing morons out of its K-12 programs, the bulk of Graduates/Phds are from outside the country!! WHY becuase they teach and not babysit spoiled brats. THe congressmens Idea to look at other systems like the Madrassa is not a bad one, then again if the same people that are looking at it are products of the failing education system...nothing will change
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Jye
written by abc , July 14, 2012
Oh dear that's the best one yet! Loonwatch are lefty islamist commies!
Yet they refute pretty much every islamophobic site.
If you cannot bear them then join them mr??
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Jye
written by abc , July 14, 2012
Let me educate you, below is what loonwatch stand for:

http://www.loonwatch.com/2012/01/a-lavish-feast-hatemongers-hypocrites-and-the-hate-du-jour/

Have a read and then form your opinions!
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To Yible
written by Archpagan , July 14, 2012
Yible, Islam follows the same format as Judaism and Christianity, and Muslims claim that Koran is the 'Last Testament'. Ask any Muslim and he will claim that Mo was as kind and merciful as Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ also ranted against the Jews for their refusal to accept him as the Messiah. You know better. All three accept Abraham as their Patriarch. So, they should be commonly called Abrahamics.

BTW, I failed to understand what the author meant by- "He turned things over to his Son, who got involved in that separation of Church and State business."Will you help please?
0
To Reed Wilson
written by Archpagan , July 14, 2012
America sponsored Madrasas in Pakistan, in order to set jihadis against the Soviets in Afghanistan, throwing into wind the ancient wisdom- 'As you sow, so will you reap'.
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judeo xtianity islam is false hatedased idelogy
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON , July 14, 2012
judeo xtianity islam is false hatedased idelogy
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , July 14, 2012
Archpagan. I agree. I dont blame US for their actions in Iraq/Afghanistan. They needed disciplining. He almighty can take his work from any of his subjects.
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...
written by Reed Wilson , July 14, 2012
Balam. Relax. I am not blaming US. Arch. has already answered to calm you.
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Archpagan,
written by Yibel , July 15, 2012
"Islam follows the same format as Judaism and Christianity?" I don't follow your line of reasoning...The Quran is nothing more than a terrorist manual - rape, pillage, plunder, and murder for booty - Islam is a criminal organization similar to the mafia.

"Ask any Muslim and he will claim that Mo was as kind and merciful as Jesus Christ." Yah'shua/Jesus never murdered anyone, even raised some from the dead, never married any little children, never raped anyone, never stole other people's property, never tortured anyone; however, he did cure the blind and crippled, and turned water into wine (now that's pretty cool). Muhammad forbad the drinking of wine, also singing, lusted after other men's wives and children, tortured and murdered people for their property, engaged in slave trading, and raised an army to attack the Byzantine and Persian Empires. Yah'shua said that his kingdom was NOT of this world; but Muhammad's kingdom is ENTIRELY of this world.

Yah'shua was angry with the rulers and priest class of his day for their callous treatment of their fellow Jews and for their pious attitude and selfpride. Muhammad was angry with the keepers of the Ka'aba because they wouldn't let him in on their Ka'aba, Inc. scam.

"All three accept Abraham as their Patriarch. So, they should be commonly called Abrahamics." Muhammad's Qur'an claims Ibrahim as a patriarch. According to Ishaq's Sira: Tabari II:50 "Allah desired to send Ibraham as an argument against his people and as a messenger to His worshippers since there had been no messengers between Nuh and Ibraham except Hud and Salih - the mythical rulers of Ad and Thamud...As time drew near, the astrologers came to Nimrod, saying, 'We have learned from our lore that a boy will be born in this city of yours who will be called Ibraham. He will abandon your religion and break your idols in such and such a month and year."

The Quranic stories about this person (Ibrahmin) are NOT about the Abraham of the Bible. This Ibrahmin lived during the time of Nimrod - many centuries before the time of Abraham - So Islam is NOT Abrahmic. Ibrahmin is NOT Abraham.
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continued
written by Yibel , July 15, 2012
"BTW, I failed to understand what the author meant by- "He turned things over to his Son, who got involved in that separation of Church and State business."Will you help please?"

I wonder if you are referring to the statement of Yah'shua concerning the payment of taxes to the state. "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" where Yah'shua recognized that certain functions of civilization are best left to a secular organization - things like road building, bridge building, commerce, military and police forces, etc. These are not religious matters, moral values are.
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , July 15, 2012
Archpagan. Yible cannot agree your "Islam follows the same format as Judaism and Christianity". Diversity and hatred is in the interest of respective clergies. I am rather of the view that Vedentists or Hindus are also belong to same chain.

There is only one testament which was sent through various messengers. All the messages were metamorphosed. Quran though intact is not followed and heaps of voluminous surrogates in form of hadis, has occupied its position. You can yourself observe that.

"Muslims claim that Koran is the 'Last Testament'. But Allah claims that all testaments carried same message
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , July 15, 2012
Yibel. You write " According to Ishaq's Sira: Tabari II:50 "Allah desired to send Ibraham as an argument against his people and as a messenger to His worshippers since ther...". What is Tabri's source? Did he tell you? Did Allah tell Tabri his 'desire'?

Dont believe Tabri.
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...
written by Reed Wilson , July 15, 2012
Yibel. Do you know Ishaq exists in Tabri and Hisham only. His reports were never available to humanity.
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To Yible
written by Archpagan , July 16, 2012
Yes, Islam follows the same format as Judaism and Christianity. You failed to follow my reasoning, I think, because you are an insider. All three consist of a single God, a central earthly character acting as His super-representative wielding power of super-God and a single scripture connected with that super-representative/ super-God. All the three snatched power of the common people to define spirituality on their own term and act according to the dictates of his/her conscience as message of God.

I am very often told by my Christian friends on this site that Jesus claimed his kingdom lay in the other world. But as student I was told that he claimed himself to be the ‘King of the Kings’, and his birth was prophesied as ‘The king of the Jew has been born’. That, I think, was sufficient to invite the wrath of the ruler who sentenced him to death. In history we read about Popes engaging kings in power-struggle and the ‘Holy Roman Empire’ survived till 1803. Therefore, the dictum ‘Render unto Caeser that what Caeser’s” was hardly followed by the Christians. Holy Roman Empire perished in the hands of Nationalism, which, I consider, is only rejuvenated form of pre-Christian Paganism. Wishing you best.
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written by Reed Wilson , July 16, 2012
Archpagan. Your above post is enviable. I wish I could say things as you do.

Whatever you said is based on "But as student I was told that he claimed himself to be the ‘King of the Kings’, and his birth was prophesied as ‘The king of the Jew has been born’. This assumption/source needs verification.
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To Reed Wilson
written by Archpagan , July 16, 2012
Thanks for your compliments. But, while passing any judgment on Hinduism, I would advise that you keep in mind the 'PLT'. Vedanta is theoretical monotheism whereas the three Abrahamic religions follow practical Monotheism. There is no character comparable to Moses/Jesus Christ/Mohammad under Vedanta. I confess that absence of such figure made Hinduism politically imbecile. So that we Hindus suffered politically all through the ages.

However, the new Hindu sect, ISKCON has imbibed much of traits of Abrahamites, because it is dominated by westerners. For them, religion can have one format only.

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ISKCON.
written by Reed Wilson , July 16, 2012
Archpagan. Thank you for "However, the new Hindu sect, ISKCON has imbibed much of traits of Abrahamites, because it is dominated by westerners. For them, religion can have one format only".

It is news to me. I want to read more on ISKCON. It supports my thesis. Please spell out ISKCON and source if conveniently possible.
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To Reed Wilson
written by Archpagan , July 17, 2012
I am providing a link, please explore if you like.
http://news.iskcon.com/node/4439
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written by Reed Wilson , July 17, 2012
Archpagan. Tum kitna achha aadmi hai!
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written by Reed Wilson , July 17, 2012
Archpagan. Thanks for the link. I have cursorily read it and have bookmarked it. It seems quite philosophical.
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on failing to follow
written by Yibel , July 18, 2012
your reasoning that all three follow "the same format"... Well, this can be said about most 9if not all) religions and movements. For example, the Zorastrians have a single god (Azura Mazda) with a super-representative wielding power (Zarathustra), and a scripture. The Babylonian/Assyrian god Sin had Nabonidus and a scripture, India's god (Indra) has a scripture - the Rig Veda. Even Buddhism has a creator/god and someone who made up the rules (Sidhartha Gotama) and a scripture, The Dhammapada; Taoism had a founder (Lao-tzu) and a scripture, The Tao te Ching; Confucianism has the Analects of Confucius; and so forth. It's pretty hard to have a movement of any kind without a dogma of some sort (scripture), someone who made up the rules, or presents the rules - and followers.

Using your criteria/format we could even include Communism and Nazism (Hitler, the super-representative wielding power of super-God/Nature and a single scripture, Mein Kamph, connected with that super-representative/ super-God.

Religions provide humans with a worldview to live and die by, and the sacred texts/scriptures define the character of the people/followers and tell their history.

You say: "All the three snatched power of the common people..." Please elaborate.
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To Archpagan cont
written by Yibel , July 18, 2012
You state: "All three consist of a single God" Really?
Islam consists of many gods: the Babylonian gods - Marduk (the creator/war god and god of 50 names) Ar-Rahman/Ar-Raheem (the merciful thunder god who brought the healing monsoon rains) Al-Malik (the fire god and Keeper of Hell) - and then there's Sin/Ah, the moon god of the Assyrians andf Egyptians - along with the tribal gods of the various Arab clans. Well over 99 gods in all.

"a central earthly character acting as His super-representative wielding power of super-God"
Muhammad was the only messenger of his stone-gawd; but YHVH, the Judeo-Christian God, had numerous earthly representatives over a period of several thousand years. There are over 60 separate books in the Bible, all with the same message.

"...as student I was told that he claimed himself to be the ‘King of the Kings’,..."

Whoever told you this was mistaken. Others said it about him, but Yah'shua (Jesus) never claimed any such thing. There are four books in the NT about his earthly ministry - Matthew, Mark, Luke and John - and in none of these does he ever refer to himself as a king. His birth was prophesized as Messiah (Immanuel)which means Savior, not king. In Revelations he is called King of Kings and Lord of Lords, but this book was written as a vision of John long after his death and resurrection.
Yah'shua said about himself - first of all - that his "kingdom was not of this world." And second, "To this end, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice."
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To Yible
written by Archpagan , July 18, 2012
I am in no mood to scrutinize people’s faith and belief. But we can discuss some events/facts and the cause and effect thereof. The ‘king of the kings’ comment from Jesus Christ was also observed by me in a theatrical performance organized on the occasion of the Christmas. In order to mock such claim he was crowned with thorny cactus and made to walk up to execution ground with the cross on the shoulder. Picture of Jesus Christ crowned with thorny cactus is not at all rare.

The undeniable fact is that during life-time Jesus Christ could impress only a handful of followers by his articulate speech. Neither the Jewish clergy nor the Roman governor was convinced about his saintly disposition. He was sentenced to death like an ordinary mutineer. Christianity spread to the Southern Europe through the royal patronage of the early Christian rulers of Rome e. g. Constantius II and Theodosius I. Later on it was carried to the Central and Northern Europe on the sword of king Charlemagne of France (Charles ‘the great’). Neo-Pagan leader Dr. Jonas Trinkunas of Lithuania has reconstructed the history of the ugly way of conversion of the Eastern Europe. Conquistadors of the Iberian peninsular and colonizers from Britain, France did their bits in America and Africa.

As regards my comment- ‘"All the three snatched power of the common people”, I would like to add just one further word ‘Inquisition’.
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the great Reed Wilson says so, so it must be so
written by Yibel , July 19, 2012
written by Reed Wilson , July 13, 2012
US sponsors Madrasas in Pakistan. US can declare Jihad whenever they like and stop it also. They have control on syllabus at the madrasas.

What nonsense you are spewing forth now! There is no "syllabus" to control. The madrassas teach Qur'an-only junk. Little boys squat all day memorizing Qur'an bull pucky of jihad and flat earth - some education!

The US provides aid to Pakistan to the "toon" - as in loony-toon - of billions of dollars - over $10 billion in the last ten years - which the Pakis spent on building another nuclear enrichment plant (they now have ten) and more warheads and nuclear bombs with which to threaten India.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch/countryside, millions of Paki citizens are still homeless years after their homes were destroyed by devastating floods.

Typical Muslim behavior. The people are cannon fodder - only World Domination counts in Allah's book!
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No harm in it.
written by Reed Wilson , July 19, 2012
No Yibel it is not RW. Elder Bush needed speedy supply of Mujahideen for ousting USSR from Afghanistan. Madrasa course was very lengthy. It took seven years.

Pres. Bush suggested the Mujahid producing Madrasas of Pakistan to shorten the course to an extent 3 1/2 years. He had the vision. His plan worked.

You can check it up from former Pres. Bush.
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Archpagan/Yibel
written by Reed Wilson , July 19, 2012
"The ‘king of the kings’ comment from Jesus Christ was also observed by me".

Jesus Christ did not claim as king of kings. I know him. He rather said:

Matt.18:1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me".

Muslims also consider Muhammad king of kings. But when you read Quran he is addressed by God as Messenger and servant. Some translate Arabic word abd as slave also.

Yibel I have commented on your last post. My comments are under review and shall appear.
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Archpagan
written by Yibel , July 20, 2012
So you get your knowledge of Christianity from "theatrical performance(s)"?

As, I said before - Yah'shua/Jesus NEVER claimed himself king. Others said it about him, but he did not. He came to proclaim the truth and to die for sins of others.

"Picture of Jesus Christ crowned with thorny cactus is not at all rare." So somebody drew some pictures - so what? What has this to do with anything? And point of fact, someone else actually carried the cross for him because he was too weak from the beatings that the Roman soldiers gave him.

After his death, thousands of his followers went forth from Judea to preach/share the good news (Gospel) that the Messiah had come. His message has universal appeal. Quit getting your info from dubious (theatrical) sources and just read The Book (hint: Bible)

You statement: As regards my comment- ‘"All the three snatched power of the common people”, I would like to add just one further word ‘Inquisition’. "

Are you saying that all three religions had the ‘Inquisition’? I was only aware of the Roman Catholic one that occurred mostly in Spain following the reconquering of Spain from the Muslim invaders - the purpose of which was to locate sneaky Muslims pretending to be Christians in order to smuggle fellow Muslims back into Spain.

Do further "enlighten us" with more of your theatrical history.
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written by Reed Wilson , July 20, 2012
Yibel. You are telling Arcpagan "He came to proclaim the truth and to die for sins of others".

Where is that proclamation Yibel? Did he die for my sins also?

"After his death, thousands of his followers went forth from Judea to preach/share the good news (Gospel) that the Messiah had come".

Where were those 'thousands of people' when he was humiliated? Please dont mind I did not find death of Jesus Christ in Gospel.

What is your set of belief or sect in Christians?

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