Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has called the movie, Innocence of Muslims, "disgusting and reprehensible", "inflammable and despicable"?
Is that so? I guess it is. After watching the movie, I too found it disgusting, despicable, reprehensible and offensive. Although this is no academy award winning movie to say the least, the acts of Muhammad as seen in the movie are indeed horrifying. The only thing Clinton didn't probably realize is that the movie, disgusting and horrifying as it is, is a rather a true portrayal of the life of Prophet Muhammad, a monster of history.
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(If your government has blocked access to youtube, use these proxies to access it: www.hidemyass.co ; https://www.torproject.org/download/download) |
1) The movie would arouse disgust for the way Muhammad is shown to murder Jewish chieftain Kinana of Khayber in front of his 17-year-old wife, then taking her as his sex-slave. But that was a fact as sacred Islamic texts tell us. In fact, Kinana was tortured by setting a fire on his chest to force him to reveal the location of the treasure under his care, and after the treasure was found, he was murdered by beheading. But in the movie, Muhammad’s cruelty is somewhat softened by simply showing Kinanah being killed by stab on the neck with a sword. Of course, Kinana’s beautiful young wife Safiyah taken to bed by Muhammad and raped on the same night. Here is the story (Sahi Buchari Hadith #143, page-700):
“Sulaiman Ibne Harb… Aannas Ibn Malek (ra) narrated, “in the war of Khayber after the inhabitants of Banu Nadir were surrendered, Allah’s apostle killed all the able/adult men, and he (prophet) took all women and children as captives... Among the captives Safiyya Bint Huyy Akhtab was taken by Allah’s Apostle as booty whom He married after freeing her and her freedom was her Mahr.”
For a man, believed to be the final and finest prophet of God by the world’s 1.6 billion Muslims, committing murder of a man in such barbaric manner and then raping the poor man’s wife on the same night is despicable and reprehensible indeed, probably more than that.
2) The movie also shows the Prophet of Islam murdering a 120-year-old woman by tearing her apart by camels for daring to defy him. Nothing could be more disgusting and horrifying that this. But that’s what happened in reality as sacred Islamic texts inform us. Here’s the story from al-Tabari, VIII:96:
"A raiding party led by Zayd set out against Umm in Ramadan. During it, Umm suffered a cruel death. Zyad tied her legs with rope and then tied her between two camels until they split her in two. She was a very old woman. Then they brought Umm's daughter and Abdallah to the Messenger. Umm's daughter belonged to Salamah who had captured her. Muhammad asked Salamah for her, and Salamah gave her to him."
3) Mrs. Clinton should be commended for calling the movie disgusting, despicable, reprehensible and offensive, given it shows Prophet Muhammad lusting for his adopted son's wife, and abolishing the noble tradition of adoption forever in Islam in order to marry her. The fact is: This is also what happened in reality, and that’s what should be deemed disgusting and horrifying. Here’s the story:
The name of Muhammad’s adopted son was Zayd bin Harithah, who, upon adoption by pagan Muhammad ca. 696 AD, became Zayd bin Muhammad. Zayd’s wife was Zaynab bint Jahsh. The Arabs regarded an adopted son as their son. Thus, sexual relations with the wife of someone’s adopted son was deemed incest and disgusting. However, when Muhammad took Zaynab as his wife, raising disgust and criticism amongst the Arabs, he came up with a solution to kill the criticism, at least within his own community, by banning the noble custom of adoption in Islam. So, he brought out the following verse (Quran 33:37):
“And when thou saidst unto him on whom Allah hath conferred favour and thou hast conferred favour: Keep thy wife to thyself, and fear Allah. And thou didst hide in thy mind that which Allah was to bring to light, and thou didst fear mankind whereas Allah hath a better right that thou shouldst fear Him. So when Zeyd had performed that necessary formality (of divorce) from her, We gave her unto thee in marriage, so that (henceforth) there may be no sin for believers in respect of wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have performed the necessary formality (of release) from them. The commandment of Allah must be fulfilled.”
In the verse, Islamic God states that this revelation is not to apply only to the case faced by Muhammad, but for the Muslim community at all times. Therefore, by bringing in this verse, Muhammad not only destroyed a very noble age-old Arab custom, but also legalized his lust for his daughter-in-law, which the Muslim society can practice for eternity. Disgusting indeed!
4) The movie shows the prophet of Islam ordering Jews and Christians to convert to Islam or pay the jiza tax (extortion) or be murdered. And it should be called disgusting, despicable, reprehensible and offensive, because that is what happened in reality. This is what the Islamic God says about it in the Quran (9:29):
“Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.”
5) The movie shows the prophet of Islam ordering his followers to murder kafir men, enslave their their women and children, sell the elderly women and children for horses, camels and arms for future war and use the younger captive women as sex-slaves. Nothing can be more disgusting, despicable, reprehensible and offensive than this. And the sad thing is: that is exactly what happened as sacred Islamic scriptures and texts inform us:
- Quran 8:41: “And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah, - and to the Messenger, and to near relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer, - if ye do believe in Allah and in the revelation We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Testing, - the Day of the meeting of the two forces. For Allah hath power over all things.”
Quran 33:27: “And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, and of a land which ye had not frequented (before). And Allah has power over all things.” [Merciful Allah asked Prophet Muhammad to confiscate entire properties of surrendered Jews] (Banu Qurayza) - Quran 8:67: “It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.” (Allah insisting Prophet to kill all the prisoners, and should not keep any surrendered prisoners alive until He (Prophet) occupied entire Arabia.
- Quran 8:17: “It is not ye who Slew them; it is God; when thou threwest a handful of dust, it was not Thy act, but God’s…..” (Allah said, the killing of surrendered soldiers were done by the wish of Allah)
There are many more things in the movie, shown to be committed by the prophet of Islam, will be found disgusting, despicable, reprehensible and offensive by civilized people. But the sad reality is also that those are no fictions if the Quran, hadiths and biographies of Prophet Muhammad, which have been held as the sacred texts of Islam by Muslims for the past 1400+ years, are to be believed in. And the movie should be deemed truly disgusting, despicable, reprehensible and offensive, because such horrifying atrocities and immoralities were committed by the prophet of Islam, thereby perpetuating in Islamic societies.
In sum: Yes, Hillary is correct. This movie is disgusting, despicable, and reprehensible. And despite poor production, Mrs Clinton and every American, indeed all civilized people of the world, should watch it and condemn the fact that Muhammad committed those barbaric atrocities and immoralities. Civilized people of the world must also unite in condemnation of the Muslim Brotherhood, Egyptian President Mursi, and the wider Muslim community for not condemning those horrible and immoral actions of their prophet. They should be condemned even more strongly for not only attacking the movie despite true portrayal of the life of Muhammad, but for inciting the Muslim masses for attacking American embassies and killing Americans, who had absolutely nothing to do with the making of the movie. It’s also unfortunate, if not disgusting, that President Obama and Hillary Clinton, as if in compliance with the Sharia Law, asked Google to review its policies regarding the movie, that is, telling Google to shut down the Youtube sites showing the movie, thereby violating the First Amendment of the US Constitution.
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Jake Neuman is the author of “Islam and Sharia Law Are Treason: Jihad Is Treason” and “Prophet Muhammad (AKA ALLAH): Monster of History.” (free download)
Comments (72)
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written by Worldpeace , September 17, 2012
Despicable, reprehensible. Horrifying.......! The character of Muhammad was indeed more so. The truth is slowly coming out, and when fully so, it will deal a death blow to Islam.
written by al-buraq , September 17, 2012
i browse internet at http://www.islamicpics.8k.com/photo3.html
take a look for your self.
i am understand why muhammad so terrify and shaking.
If only khadija help muhammad at the cave?
ha ha
take a look for your self.
i am understand why muhammad so terrify and shaking.
If only khadija help muhammad at the cave?
ha ha
written by De Doc , September 17, 2012
Clinton is only aping the mantra of the administration: "We respect all religions!" (or at least the ones that could get us votes in Nov). To be truthful it is not all that different from Bush who declared "I believe that the terrorists have hijacked a peaceful religion in order to justify their behavior."
Most of the Muslims involved in these protests never saw the video, but were whipped up into a violent furor by religious leaders who viewed this as an opportunity to protest US actions in Afghanistan and Iraq. The silly part is how they see this video as sanctioned by the US government, as if the CIA, FBI, & Secret Service combined personnel to advocate and front a stupid, low budget, waste-of-celluloid as part of the United States' effort to deliberately offend the entire Islamic world. I suspect the fomenters know well it is not true, but rely on the credulity of the protesters to vent anger for whatever reason they declare fit.
My question is how can anyone watch this video and assign it any importance? Only the cynical and devious clerics/politicians, who then incite the mindless mobs to riot.
Most of the Muslims involved in these protests never saw the video, but were whipped up into a violent furor by religious leaders who viewed this as an opportunity to protest US actions in Afghanistan and Iraq. The silly part is how they see this video as sanctioned by the US government, as if the CIA, FBI, & Secret Service combined personnel to advocate and front a stupid, low budget, waste-of-celluloid as part of the United States' effort to deliberately offend the entire Islamic world. I suspect the fomenters know well it is not true, but rely on the credulity of the protesters to vent anger for whatever reason they declare fit.
My question is how can anyone watch this video and assign it any importance? Only the cynical and devious clerics/politicians, who then incite the mindless mobs to riot.
written by Islam-Watch Pastor , September 17, 2012
No sane person that would know the Islam foundational history and still be a believer without being forced to by the power of the sword and deceit.
These morons that are killings for blasphemy, Can a human being be blasphemed against, I thought Mohammed is a human like us, I thought blasphemy is only referred to irreverence and speaking lies against a deity or a God. Is Mohammed God? Are these stories lies? Why do people believe in lies? If what they believe is true why are they ashamed when the story is told? If such stories are shameful why should normal rational being placed is destiny in hands of such a con artists and a terrorist and an evil persons like Mohammed, no matter what he called himself or which deity he is speaking for.
There is no rationality in killing innocent people when the truth of what you believed is told to the civilised world. That means you are not rational and objective and truthful in what you believe. You believe in what is not true and you are pound to kill for it what an irony.
Reed Wilson and Co, can you see the stupidity in believing Islam?
These morons that are killings for blasphemy, Can a human being be blasphemed against, I thought Mohammed is a human like us, I thought blasphemy is only referred to irreverence and speaking lies against a deity or a God. Is Mohammed God? Are these stories lies? Why do people believe in lies? If what they believe is true why are they ashamed when the story is told? If such stories are shameful why should normal rational being placed is destiny in hands of such a con artists and a terrorist and an evil persons like Mohammed, no matter what he called himself or which deity he is speaking for.
There is no rationality in killing innocent people when the truth of what you believed is told to the civilised world. That means you are not rational and objective and truthful in what you believe. You believe in what is not true and you are pound to kill for it what an irony.
Reed Wilson and Co, can you see the stupidity in believing Islam?
written by berq , September 17, 2012
A nice article by jake.I have anticapation that Muslims those are inteligent people will think upon what has been stated in this article.They are not thick people they are human being, only Islam made them mad.Mrs Clinton is a muslims appeaser politician.She her self is dispecable because being a forein secretary of USA she should know the truth abou Islam.The producer of the film did not introduce any thing new which is not in the Islamic history.why the Muslims are protesting?Muslims have very strange arguments.They insist this is true that all those stories are in their holy books,but they do,nt like that kafirs tell them about all this rubish.They believe those stories are trustworthy because their holy books contain them.They insist that they know quran and hadith better than kafirs.I would like to say to my Muslim friends if you can not give up those stories and the verses of the quran then re-interpretation them.Then may be kafirs will understand them with new meaning.Until you believeing the classic interpretation of the quran you would not let the world live in peace and you will remain disturb in the world. Muslims please dont tell kafirs that you resepect all prophts,read your hadiths.you respect only muhammad not the other prophts.Do not play taqyyiah with jews and christians.Infact, you insult the prophets.
written by Reed Wilson. , September 17, 2012
Clement Nice you showed up. You seldom visit IW. We miss duh_swami too. The standard of our comments is declining and there is no much logic seen.
On the same issue vbv questioned on other thread. I give my answer here:
vbv. You write "Then why do muslims go in a frenzy killing , destroying public properties whenever Muhamad is "blasphemed"?
This question and other related questions in your post be posed to those Muslims. In my opinion it is because they are hadis followers and Muhammad worshipers. Spontaneously they get punishment. Their own people killed and production falls resulting unrest.
All such movements of reaction are sponsored by clergy who has no stakes.
Clement you already know that Bible teaches even selling of daughters and purchasing foreigners and treat them as property. Christians ignore such teachings of Bible. Similarly these hadis followers should ignore sinister hadis.
On the same issue vbv questioned on other thread. I give my answer here:
vbv. You write "Then why do muslims go in a frenzy killing , destroying public properties whenever Muhamad is "blasphemed"?
This question and other related questions in your post be posed to those Muslims. In my opinion it is because they are hadis followers and Muhammad worshipers. Spontaneously they get punishment. Their own people killed and production falls resulting unrest.
All such movements of reaction are sponsored by clergy who has no stakes.
Clement you already know that Bible teaches even selling of daughters and purchasing foreigners and treat them as property. Christians ignore such teachings of Bible. Similarly these hadis followers should ignore sinister hadis.
written by Guy Macher , September 17, 2012
Muslims tell us that no matter what violence, stupidity, or hatred arises from Islam, it is because Muslims do not understand Islam! Why is the perfect religion, a religion explained in the perfectly clear Koran, never understood?
Why do Muslim never go on a binge of mercy or kindness? Why are present-day Muslims ashamed of the Mohamed depicted in the authentic hadiths? They used to be proud of this psychopath. Even the resident liar talks of sinister hadiths, or anecdotes of their prophet! A judgement which is blasphemy!
Nothing similar can be found in Christian literature about Jesus. Christians are not ashamed of Jesus. We do not deny the things He did, because He did only good things.
Muslims must ask themselves why they are ashamed of Allah's model human.
Why do Muslim never go on a binge of mercy or kindness? Why are present-day Muslims ashamed of the Mohamed depicted in the authentic hadiths? They used to be proud of this psychopath. Even the resident liar talks of sinister hadiths, or anecdotes of their prophet! A judgement which is blasphemy!
Nothing similar can be found in Christian literature about Jesus. Christians are not ashamed of Jesus. We do not deny the things He did, because He did only good things.
Muslims must ask themselves why they are ashamed of Allah's model human.
written by kundan , September 17, 2012
Hilary's comments of movie being "disgusting and reprehensible", "inflammable and despicable" is a classic example of transferred epithet. In own stroke, she achieves two purposes : -1.show her opinion about the protagonist of the movie, prophet Mohammad. 2.Make a very subtle, seemingly political correct statement,which actually is transferred epithet,only visible to discerning minds ;)
written by Islam-Watch Pastor , September 17, 2012
"Clement you already know that Bible teaches even selling of daughters and purchasing foreigners and treat them as property. Christians ignore such teachings of Bible. Similarly these hadis followers should ignore sinister hadis.
Your above revealed your faulty understanding of the Bible and the Quran. There is no such things as selling daughters and purchasing foreigners in the Bible, besides the Bible is the inspired word of God written by more than 40 inspired writers in the space of more 2,600 years which cannot be abrogated even by God himself but all must be fulfilled. The Bible is divided into two covenants or Testaments mutually depended on each other and predicated on love.
The Quran on the other hand is the direct words of Allah as recited by his lone prophet in 23 years which he agrees can be abrogated as he wishes and predicated on hatemongering, terrorism and war. No two testament are involved no any other author or witness. Quran is a book of one witness and no proof that is from the God of the Bible.
So stop comparing them. When the content of the Quran is revealed the believers go on killing sprey of unbelievers. The Quran is a book that inspire terrorism all over the world.
Your above revealed your faulty understanding of the Bible and the Quran. There is no such things as selling daughters and purchasing foreigners in the Bible, besides the Bible is the inspired word of God written by more than 40 inspired writers in the space of more 2,600 years which cannot be abrogated even by God himself but all must be fulfilled. The Bible is divided into two covenants or Testaments mutually depended on each other and predicated on love.
The Quran on the other hand is the direct words of Allah as recited by his lone prophet in 23 years which he agrees can be abrogated as he wishes and predicated on hatemongering, terrorism and war. No two testament are involved no any other author or witness. Quran is a book of one witness and no proof that is from the God of the Bible.
So stop comparing them. When the content of the Quran is revealed the believers go on killing sprey of unbelievers. The Quran is a book that inspire terrorism all over the world.
written by Archpagan , September 17, 2012
'In my opinion it is because they are hadis followers and Muhammad worshipers.'
Sure, but the tragedy is that, without Hadis Koran becomes unintelligible. Therefore, they go berserk, as if their sweet hearts have been raped. Instead of shooting, they should be captured and sent to a 'reserved' country such as Afghanistan, Somalia and a high wall along the borders of such countries should be raised, so that they can not come into contact with civilized human species.
Sure, but the tragedy is that, without Hadis Koran becomes unintelligible. Therefore, they go berserk, as if their sweet hearts have been raped. Instead of shooting, they should be captured and sent to a 'reserved' country such as Afghanistan, Somalia and a high wall along the borders of such countries should be raised, so that they can not come into contact with civilized human species.
written by Rick Frueh , September 17, 2012
There are many things that are true but do not aid in the spreading of the gospel. What would spending energy identifying and articulating the belief system of the Church of Satan do? To inflame people that you are attempting to reach is counterproductive even if what you say is true. Wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove is a better way.
written by Howard , September 17, 2012
Peaceful muslims. There isnt one who thinks it wrong to rape a little boy or girl.
written by Reed Wilson. , September 17, 2012
Archpagan. You write "Sure, but the tragedy is that, without Hadis Koran becomes unintelligible."
NO. Not at all. Where it is unintelligible? I quoting Quran profusely on this site all of you and even biased understand to the core of it. They criticism also. Do they criticize without understanding?
It is said that Quran is plagiarized and has contradictions. You mean all that is unintelligent?
Before some suras there are certain alphabets. No hadis explains that. Nor we find any SAHABI in hadis asking the apostle to decode those alphabets as if they were fully understood by the stupid SAHABIS.
Do you mean Quran was not understood for first mor than 200 years before hadis was born?
On 4th this month I quoted you 10:15 which reads:
وَإِذَا تُتْلَىٰ عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتُنَا بَيِّنَاتٍ ۙ قَالَ الَّذِينَ لَا يَرْجُونَ لِقَاءَنَا ائْتِ بِقُرْآنٍ غَيْرِ هَـٰذَا أَوْ بَدِّلْهُ ۚ قُلْ مَا يَكُونُ لِي أَنْ أُبَدِّلَهُ مِن تِلْقَاءِ نَفْسِي ۖ إِنْ أَتَّبِعُ إِلَّا مَا يُوحَىٰ إِلَيَّ ۖ إِنِّي أَخَافُ إِنْ عَصَيْتُ رَبِّي عَذَابَ يَوْمٍ عَظِيمٍ
"When my verse, which are clear, are recited to them, those who do not hope to meet me, say: "Bring a different Qur'an, or make amendments to this one." Say: "It is not for me to change it of my will. I obey what is revealed to me. If I disobey my Lord, I fear the punishment of an awful Day."
Archpagan you understood it.
By your observation you are shooting you own foot.
What about giving some example where Quran was unintelligible and hadis explained it.
NO. Not at all. Where it is unintelligible? I quoting Quran profusely on this site all of you and even biased understand to the core of it. They criticism also. Do they criticize without understanding?
It is said that Quran is plagiarized and has contradictions. You mean all that is unintelligent?
Before some suras there are certain alphabets. No hadis explains that. Nor we find any SAHABI in hadis asking the apostle to decode those alphabets as if they were fully understood by the stupid SAHABIS.
Do you mean Quran was not understood for first mor than 200 years before hadis was born?
On 4th this month I quoted you 10:15 which reads:
وَإِذَا تُتْلَىٰ عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتُنَا بَيِّنَاتٍ ۙ قَالَ الَّذِينَ لَا يَرْجُونَ لِقَاءَنَا ائْتِ بِقُرْآنٍ غَيْرِ هَـٰذَا أَوْ بَدِّلْهُ ۚ قُلْ مَا يَكُونُ لِي أَنْ أُبَدِّلَهُ مِن تِلْقَاءِ نَفْسِي ۖ إِنْ أَتَّبِعُ إِلَّا مَا يُوحَىٰ إِلَيَّ ۖ إِنِّي أَخَافُ إِنْ عَصَيْتُ رَبِّي عَذَابَ يَوْمٍ عَظِيمٍ
"When my verse, which are clear, are recited to them, those who do not hope to meet me, say: "Bring a different Qur'an, or make amendments to this one." Say: "It is not for me to change it of my will. I obey what is revealed to me. If I disobey my Lord, I fear the punishment of an awful Day."
Archpagan you understood it.
By your observation you are shooting you own foot.
What about giving some example where Quran was unintelligible and hadis explained it.
written by xyz , September 17, 2012
"What about giving some example where Quran was unintelligible and hadis explained it."
Does Quran states how to pray namaz?
Does Quran states how to pray namaz?
written by xyz , September 17, 2012
I asked many times
Why Allah commanded ONLY Mohammed to do prostrate ( sajda) to Him many times in a day and He did not required this from any other prophet.?
Also, this shows differentiation bw prophets by Allah.
written by ANNAD , September 17, 2012
These verses are from your Koran:
How peaceful are they:
"The Quran:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.
Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.
Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"
Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."
How peaceful are they:
"The Quran:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is thus disingenuous (the actual Muslim words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The actual Arabic comes from "fitna" which can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. Taken as a whole, the context makes clear that violence is being authorized until "religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.
Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.
Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"
Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."
written by ANNAD , September 17, 2012
And more"
Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).
Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?
Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.
Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end.
And many more:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm
Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).
Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?
Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.
Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end.
And many more:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm
written by fineliving56 , September 17, 2012
I will volunteer to bring words and Ayas and even Suras that absolutely makes no sense what so ever .
_ Q/Sura 111 …this the most weakest of all because it stands on it's own with no explanation what so ever … who is Abu lahab ?… who is his wife ? what did he do ? what did she do to deserve this burning ? … in 111 there no explanation what so ever …what is her name ?… if it was not for Hadeeth which you call all lies … 111 is meaningless … only hadeeth sheds light on who he is .
Reed …you say Quran is clear to all …Quran say Quran IS clear … as you say in the Aya you sited …
So if that is true, what are you doing here ? … what is all the explanations you are doing … you do it with so much effort that I seriously feel sorry for all that hard work you are doing … working on a language you never understand … besides, why do we need all these Imams explaining and explaining Quran … so they all unneeded ?
Just the fact that Quran says '' it is clear '' is in its self, the most unclear statement Quran ever said '' .
_ Q/Sura 111 …this the most weakest of all because it stands on it's own with no explanation what so ever … who is Abu lahab ?… who is his wife ? what did he do ? what did she do to deserve this burning ? … in 111 there no explanation what so ever …what is her name ?… if it was not for Hadeeth which you call all lies … 111 is meaningless … only hadeeth sheds light on who he is .
Reed …you say Quran is clear to all …Quran say Quran IS clear … as you say in the Aya you sited …
So if that is true, what are you doing here ? … what is all the explanations you are doing … you do it with so much effort that I seriously feel sorry for all that hard work you are doing … working on a language you never understand … besides, why do we need all these Imams explaining and explaining Quran … so they all unneeded ?
Just the fact that Quran says '' it is clear '' is in its self, the most unclear statement Quran ever said '' .
written by Reed Wilson. , September 18, 2012
Archpagan. I made some keyboarding mistakes in above post. Please dont mind.
written by truthteller , September 18, 2012
This film is a great flim . It shows the truth about The fasle phofit Mohamed and that he was a murderer , pedophile , rapist and thief. Muslims sjould just face the fact that thier religion is false and evil . Thier own text showed what the fasle profit Mohamed did and the movie is very accurate and infact not harh enough . Chrisatians have had to endure blasphous flims and they dont go around killing innocent people. Grow up Muslims . ISLAM IS EVIL
written by Muslims are discusting , September 18, 2012
Screw the musllims . The USA has given them so much aid , financail and with troops etc , and then they go apeshit over a movie that is actually very true in is depiction of islam and thier clown mohamed . They kill innocent people and riot , i say get them out of the civilized world like the USA, Canada , Austrialia etc and send them back to the shithole muslim countrys they came from , where woman cant go to school or drive and where they can pray to thier moron mohamed all day if they like and kill eachother . This political correctness of the has to stop . Muslims want non muslims dead and are killing non muskims everyday , this is no differnt themn the nazi's , they are racist pigs . Immegration in the old days when Italian, Greek , English etc. came to north america worked because they were Christains for the most part that came to a christian country. The Muslim immigrants want to come here for our social programs and money yet hate are culture and even have succeded in having the lords pray out of many schools in the western world , they are out of line and our governments are bending over for them , Can you inagaine if a westerner went to miran and ask for muslim prayers to be stopped in school , they would be killed on the spot . GO HOME MUSLIMS
written by Reed Wilson. , September 18, 2012
fineliving. You quoted sura which clearly says that he and his wife will go to hell and his wealth did not save. Why do you want to who is he? May be allegorical as declared in Aal e Imran. What you dont understand. You understand hell, wife, flame, wealth and its futility. Then you know every thing.
Quite many things of Quran remain mystery till it is solved like body of Pharaoh. Some remain mystery due to lack of knowledge of mankind like green pigment is responsible for production of grains, movements of sun and earth remained mystery till recently.
When Quran says Aalameen, we know only one world. Who will decode it except man. Quran tells that there things to be explored and there are laws strictly according which everything is governed.
When Allah answered Pharaoh that I will save your body only. Was that not cleared. It means your body will not rot.
What do here is only to give available English translations of pertinent verses. I give text also. I dont even give tafseer which is so abundant.It is not me who is giving all the facts. I am just like a postman.
fineliving if you dont understand certain is it not clear? You argued with me on abi lahab, I did not insist. It is definitely not name of a particular person as Tabri misguided. You yourself gave name of abu lahab as A Aziz. Both are fiction. People want and like spice.
Quite many things of Quran remain mystery till it is solved like body of Pharaoh. Some remain mystery due to lack of knowledge of mankind like green pigment is responsible for production of grains, movements of sun and earth remained mystery till recently.
When Quran says Aalameen, we know only one world. Who will decode it except man. Quran tells that there things to be explored and there are laws strictly according which everything is governed.
When Allah answered Pharaoh that I will save your body only. Was that not cleared. It means your body will not rot.
What do here is only to give available English translations of pertinent verses. I give text also. I dont even give tafseer which is so abundant.It is not me who is giving all the facts. I am just like a postman.
fineliving if you dont understand certain is it not clear? You argued with me on abi lahab, I did not insist. It is definitely not name of a particular person as Tabri misguided. You yourself gave name of abu lahab as A Aziz. Both are fiction. People want and like spice.
written by Reed Wilson. , September 18, 2012
The maker of the film is not a Christian. He is just a genius.He has solely commercial consideration. You will see how much business it will do with paltry investment.
So was Terry Jones who got some lease of life when he virtually became insignificant.
Muslims are definitely fools. Kill the fools!
So was Terry Jones who got some lease of life when he virtually became insignificant.
Muslims are definitely fools. Kill the fools!
written by 1proudkaffur4life , September 18, 2012
Sure 33: 53
Pickthal
O Ye who believe! Enter not the dwellings of the Prophet for a meal without waiting for the proper time, unless permission be granted you. But if ye are invited, enter, and, when your meal is ended, then disperse. Linger not for conversation. Lo! that would cause annoyance to the Prophet, and he would be shy of (asking) you (to go); but Allah is not shy of the truth. And when ye ask of them (the wives of the Prophet) anything, ask it of them from behind a curtain. That is purer for your hearts and for their hearts. And it is not for you to cause annoyance to the messenger of Allah, nor that ye should ever marry his wives after him. Lo! that in Allah's sight would be an enormity.
Pickthal
O Ye who believe! Enter not the dwellings of the Prophet for a meal without waiting for the proper time, unless permission be granted you. But if ye are invited, enter, and, when your meal is ended, then disperse. Linger not for conversation. Lo! that would cause annoyance to the Prophet, and he would be shy of (asking) you (to go); but Allah is not shy of the truth. And when ye ask of them (the wives of the Prophet) anything, ask it of them from behind a curtain. That is purer for your hearts and for their hearts. And it is not for you to cause annoyance to the messenger of Allah, nor that ye should ever marry his wives after him. Lo! that in Allah's sight would be an enormity.
written by kundan , September 18, 2012
Hi, i wanted to ask this question to u. It seems several ppl have praised the life of prhphet mohammad, such as Edward Gibbon, Mahatama Gandhi,Annie Besant ,Gustav Weil and so on as shown by this link on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...e=related
& stuff like http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/quote1.html
What do u think of that? Were they ignorant of the true islamic history and the life of prohphet mohmmad or were they just telling their stuff based on heresy ?
I know about Mahatama Gandhi part, but what about Europeans, who are normally rational
Regards,
Kundan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...e=related
& stuff like http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/quote1.html
What do u think of that? Were they ignorant of the true islamic history and the life of prohphet mohmmad or were they just telling their stuff based on heresy ?
I know about Mahatama Gandhi part, but what about Europeans, who are normally rational
Regards,
Kundan
written by open eyes , September 18, 2012
First I want to say I'm not be a part of any religion
Second, yes the video is good and shows us the way the orthodox peole are
Third, but don't be stupid, who send G.W.Bush, Tony Blair and the rest of the willing people to the court for all the lies about
" weappon of mass destructions ". Their acting was criminal and they were acting like Hitler and their friends who were facing Nuernberg at the end. Where is the court for all these guys and the Islamic prayer of hate. To kill or harm people because of a video this is more than ridiculous this is retarded. The Christians says; " everyone who uses a sword will be killed by a sword "
Never forget this.
You can't reach out of this
Second, yes the video is good and shows us the way the orthodox peole are
Third, but don't be stupid, who send G.W.Bush, Tony Blair and the rest of the willing people to the court for all the lies about
" weappon of mass destructions ". Their acting was criminal and they were acting like Hitler and their friends who were facing Nuernberg at the end. Where is the court for all these guys and the Islamic prayer of hate. To kill or harm people because of a video this is more than ridiculous this is retarded. The Christians says; " everyone who uses a sword will be killed by a sword "
Never forget this.
You can't reach out of this
written by Reed Wilson. , September 18, 2012
open eyes. Tony Blair reads Quran 'regularly' and he is no more a war monger. He says he approved bombing of Iraq after reading holy bible.
written by This is Rami Rustom , September 18, 2012
Muslims aren't ashamed of Mohamed. They think that all the bad stuff being said about Mohamed is false. They believe that Jews are spreading lies about Mohamed. They don't read the Quran/Hadith themselves.
And some things being said about Mohamed, they believe, like marrying a 9 year old. But they don't believe it to be immoral. Why? Because God allowed it (he told us in the Quran), thus marrying a 9 year old is moral.
And some things being said about Mohamed, they believe, like marrying a 9 year old. But they don't believe it to be immoral. Why? Because God allowed it (he told us in the Quran), thus marrying a 9 year old is moral.
written by The Infidel , September 18, 2012
She claims to defend the feelings of all religions, yet she is the same person who cheered at the play insulting and degenerating the Mormon faith.
Can anyone else see the blatant hypocrocy?
The Infidel
Can anyone else see the blatant hypocrocy?
The Infidel
written by Reed Wilson. , September 18, 2012
Rami Rustom and Guy Macher. Yes it is all there in their sacred ahadis which are so sacred that whomever(Muslim of course) rejcts them is fit for killing. Reed also deserved death on that count.
How it is funny that they love hadis and cannot face its contents.
Pitiable is their plight.
How it is funny that they love hadis and cannot face its contents.
Pitiable is their plight.
written by shabeer , September 18, 2012
12 Essential points about the offensive film on the Prophet Muhammad, and the subsequent reactions in Libya & Egypt, Omid Safi http://www.religionnews.com/bl...mad-and-th
ADL: Anti-Muslim Christian Activists Responsible For Inflammatory “Innocence of Muslims” Film http://blog.adl.org/
America’s ‘counter-jihadis’ fan flames of hatred across Middle East, Rory Carroll http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl...sfeed=true
Amid tensions in the Middle East, reject all voices of extremism, Nathan Lean http://www.washingtonpost.com/..._blog.html
Anti-Islam Film Linked to ‘Islamophobic Industry’ http://www.voanews.com/content...07803.html
Anti-Islam Figures: Don’t Blame Us, Rosie Gray http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosieg...t-blame-us
Blasphemy riots: less about theology, more about power plays, Christa Case Bryant http://www.csmonitor.com/World...ower-plays
Conservatives Fault All Muslims For The Murder Of U.S. Ambassador To Libya, Annie-Rose Strasser http://thinkprogress.org/polit...l-muslims/
Coptic Bishops blast Coptic Christians behind anti-Muslim film http://ncronline.org/news/peop...uslim-film
Death By Fiction In The ‘Innocence of Muslims’ Riots, Alyssa Rosenberg http://thinkprogress.org/alyss...ght-rises/
The Death of an Ambassador: Stupid Film Compromises American Security and Reputation, Paul Brandeis Raushenbush http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...77226.html
Domestic and foreign extremists behind the Cairo and Libya attacks, John L. Esposito http://www.aljazeera.com/indep...57566.html
Extremists and leaders incite violent protests, Peter Bergen http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/13/...ndex.html?
written by shabeer , September 18, 2012
Some misguided Muslims have come into the modern world with the expectation that we, and the religion of Islam which we profess, are not to be offended. This is a false and unrealistic expectation, as Allah has decreed otherwise; [Ye shall certainly be tried and tested in your possessions and in your personal selves; and ye shall certainly Hear much that will grieve you, from those who received the Book before you and from those who worship many gods. But if ye persevere patiently, and guard against evil,-then that will be a determining factor in all affairs. 3:186].
People are free to either believe in the Prophet (SAWS), and what he has come with or to disbelieve in him, [Say, “The truth is from your Lord”: Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it) 18:29] The Prophet (SAWS) withstood all kinds of verbal abuse, accusations and invectives from the disbelievers and the polytheists while he was alive, and he endured, owing to his lofty character and high moral constitution [And thou (standest) on an exalted standard of character. 68:4] When the Prophet (SAWS) was negotiating the famed treaty of Hudaibiyyah, the Meccan delegate Suhail ibn Amr did not accept the Prophet’s title (Muhammad Messenger of Allah) to be written on the contract and only agreed to the Prophet’s name; Muhammad ibn Abdullah, on the document. Suhail justified the slight by saying; “If we actually thought that you were indeed the messenger of Allah in the first place, we would not be fighting you”. If everyone on earth believed that the Prophet (SAWS) was the Messenger of Allah, then no one would criticize him. However, that is not the case, and many Muslims need to accept that, and move on.
People are free to either believe in the Prophet (SAWS), and what he has come with or to disbelieve in him, [Say, “The truth is from your Lord”: Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it) 18:29] The Prophet (SAWS) withstood all kinds of verbal abuse, accusations and invectives from the disbelievers and the polytheists while he was alive, and he endured, owing to his lofty character and high moral constitution [And thou (standest) on an exalted standard of character. 68:4] When the Prophet (SAWS) was negotiating the famed treaty of Hudaibiyyah, the Meccan delegate Suhail ibn Amr did not accept the Prophet’s title (Muhammad Messenger of Allah) to be written on the contract and only agreed to the Prophet’s name; Muhammad ibn Abdullah, on the document. Suhail justified the slight by saying; “If we actually thought that you were indeed the messenger of Allah in the first place, we would not be fighting you”. If everyone on earth believed that the Prophet (SAWS) was the Messenger of Allah, then no one would criticize him. However, that is not the case, and many Muslims need to accept that, and move on.
written by shabeer , September 18, 2012
Muslims around the world can either keep on working themselves up into frenzy every time someone criticizes or makes fun of Islam or Muslims, and keep pretending that this is the proper method to defend Islam, and the Prophet (SAW), or we can opt to follow our own scripture on the matter (Quran and Prophetic tradition), and save ourselves a lot of anxiety, frustration and misdirection. and endure with patience whatever people may say [against thee], and avoid them with a comely avoidance. 73:10] Patience and magnanimity is better than carrying on in the streets, as if we are devoid of guidance. The Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) is dead, and his place with Allah sub’haanahu wa ta’ala is assured by the word of Allah Himself; [Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet: O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect. 33:56]
Following our raw emotions when religious texts dictate otherwise, doe not represent what our religion is about.This insulting film about Rasoolillah (SAWS), which people are clamoring about, is not the first time that the Prophet (SAWS) has been disparaged, and it will most likely not be the last time. Defending the Prophet (SAWS) entails believing in him, obeying him and following his way. Not demonstrating in the streets, burning cars, chanting slogans, or killing people. Knowing what we know about the life and struggle of the Prophet (SAWS), he would not sanction the amount of visible rage, rioting, slogan chanting, and wanton destruction that some of us resort to in different parts of the world any time one of the many criticisms leveled against the Prophet (SAWS) mysteriously comes to surface.
If anyone wants to defend the Prophet (SAWS) from those who would criticize him, and assail him, then they would be better served by making every effort to live up to the standards of devotional worship, good character, kindness to the neighbor and the neighbors, charity and upright living that wa practiced by the Prophet (SAWS).
Following our raw emotions when religious texts dictate otherwise, doe not represent what our religion is about.This insulting film about Rasoolillah (SAWS), which people are clamoring about, is not the first time that the Prophet (SAWS) has been disparaged, and it will most likely not be the last time. Defending the Prophet (SAWS) entails believing in him, obeying him and following his way. Not demonstrating in the streets, burning cars, chanting slogans, or killing people. Knowing what we know about the life and struggle of the Prophet (SAWS), he would not sanction the amount of visible rage, rioting, slogan chanting, and wanton destruction that some of us resort to in different parts of the world any time one of the many criticisms leveled against the Prophet (SAWS) mysteriously comes to surface.
If anyone wants to defend the Prophet (SAWS) from those who would criticize him, and assail him, then they would be better served by making every effort to live up to the standards of devotional worship, good character, kindness to the neighbor and the neighbors, charity and upright living that wa practiced by the Prophet (SAWS).
written by Avid Reader , September 18, 2012
Mr Neuman,
Please tell me where you found the full film! All I've been able to find, after days of futile internet search, is the 14 minute long "trailer." Heck, there are now journalists saying that a full-length feature doesn't even exist! But, since you've seen it (and Clinton too, apparently), it must exist. Please send me the link!
Thanks,
an avid reader
Please tell me where you found the full film! All I've been able to find, after days of futile internet search, is the 14 minute long "trailer." Heck, there are now journalists saying that a full-length feature doesn't even exist! But, since you've seen it (and Clinton too, apparently), it must exist. Please send me the link!
Thanks,
an avid reader
written by Reed Wilson. , September 20, 2012
Avid Reader. Where is the film? This the question. It is very much asked for. The producer made millions. He did not spend much.
He (Sam Basile) paid only $500 to Garcia for 2 1/2 days of shooting and two hours of editing one day and another hour of editing later.
Source: Garcia's interview at Youtube.
He (Sam Basile) paid only $500 to Garcia for 2 1/2 days of shooting and two hours of editing one day and another hour of editing later.
Source: Garcia's interview at Youtube.
written by Liberal Fundamentalist , September 20, 2012
You write " If anyone wants to defend the Pophead from those who would criticize him, and assail him, then they would be better served by making every effort to live up to the standards of devotional worship, good character, kindness to the neighbor and the neighbors, charity and upright living that wa practiced by the Pophead "
Ol' camel turd did not have any monopoly on these actions of righteousness. In fact these have been espoused by most right thinking people though out the ages. However, where Ol' camel turd actually stands out is due to his actions of lust, rapine. war mongering and frankly speaking, low 'moral' threshold. You'd do well to recognize Ol' camel turd for what actually he was and lead a meaningful life of righteousness without having to lean on him as an example as most of the world does who do not follow Islam. Hopefully you'd have got the point.
Ol' camel turd did not have any monopoly on these actions of righteousness. In fact these have been espoused by most right thinking people though out the ages. However, where Ol' camel turd actually stands out is due to his actions of lust, rapine. war mongering and frankly speaking, low 'moral' threshold. You'd do well to recognize Ol' camel turd for what actually he was and lead a meaningful life of righteousness without having to lean on him as an example as most of the world does who do not follow Islam. Hopefully you'd have got the point.
written by Reed Wilson. , September 21, 2012
Clelment. It was my sincere advice wich you can ignore at your cost.
You write "There is no such things as selling daughters and purchasing foreigners in the Bible, besides the Bible is the inspired word of God written by more than 40 inspired writers in the space of more 2,600 years which cannot be abrogated even by God himself but all must be fulfilled."
Let duh_swami answer you on this:
written by duh_swami , February 04, 2012
Indentured servitude is slavery...The word 'servitude' confirms it...free man servitude's no other man...
How to sell your daughter into slavery brought to you by the Bible...
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
You and I are also 'inspired persons'
The Bible is divided into two covenants or Testaments mutually depended on each other and predicated on love.
The Quran on the other hand is the direct words of Allah as recited by his lone prophet in 23 years which he agrees can be abrogated as he wishes and predicated on hatemongering, terrorism and war. No two testament are involved no any other author or witness. Quran is a book of one witness and no proof that is from the God of the Bible.
So stop comparing them. When the content of the Quran is revealed the believers go on killing sprey of unbelievers. The Quran is a book that inspire terrorism all over the world.
You write "There is no such things as selling daughters and purchasing foreigners in the Bible, besides the Bible is the inspired word of God written by more than 40 inspired writers in the space of more 2,600 years which cannot be abrogated even by God himself but all must be fulfilled."
Let duh_swami answer you on this:
written by duh_swami , February 04, 2012
Indentured servitude is slavery...The word 'servitude' confirms it...free man servitude's no other man...
How to sell your daughter into slavery brought to you by the Bible...
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
You and I are also 'inspired persons'
The Bible is divided into two covenants or Testaments mutually depended on each other and predicated on love.
The Quran on the other hand is the direct words of Allah as recited by his lone prophet in 23 years which he agrees can be abrogated as he wishes and predicated on hatemongering, terrorism and war. No two testament are involved no any other author or witness. Quran is a book of one witness and no proof that is from the God of the Bible.
So stop comparing them. When the content of the Quran is revealed the believers go on killing sprey of unbelievers. The Quran is a book that inspire terrorism all over the world.
written by Reed Wilson. , September 21, 2012
Clement I gave you sincere advice which can be ignored at you cost.
You write "There is no such things as selling daughters and purchasing foreigners in the Bible. besides the Bible is the inspired word of God written by more than 40 inspired writers in the space of more 2,600 years which cannot be abrogated even by God himself but all must be fulfilled."
I copy duh_swami's post to answer your above
written by duh_swami , February 04, 2012
Indentured servitude is slavery...The word 'servitude' confirms it...free man servitude's no other man...
How to sell your daughter into slavery brought to you by the Bible...
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
You are also 'inspired person' like Archpagan, duh and Reed.
You write "The Bible is divided into two covenants or Testaments mutually depended on each other and predicated on love."
Who divided and where 'predicted on love'? Just because you say that?
You write "So stop comparing them."
I never compared Bible with any book. It is not being discussed here. Nor I am discussing Quran here. However I do have freedom of expression.
You write "There is no such things as selling daughters and purchasing foreigners in the Bible. besides the Bible is the inspired word of God written by more than 40 inspired writers in the space of more 2,600 years which cannot be abrogated even by God himself but all must be fulfilled."
I copy duh_swami's post to answer your above
written by duh_swami , February 04, 2012
Indentured servitude is slavery...The word 'servitude' confirms it...free man servitude's no other man...
How to sell your daughter into slavery brought to you by the Bible...
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
You are also 'inspired person' like Archpagan, duh and Reed.
You write "The Bible is divided into two covenants or Testaments mutually depended on each other and predicated on love."
Who divided and where 'predicted on love'? Just because you say that?
You write "So stop comparing them."
I never compared Bible with any book. It is not being discussed here. Nor I am discussing Quran here. However I do have freedom of expression.
written by Reed Wilson. , September 21, 2012
Clement. I have posted for and will appear if pass the test. Normally it comes.
On your "There is no such things as selling daughters and purchasing foreigners in the Bible, besides the Bible is the inspired word of God written by more than 40 inspired writers in the space of more 2,600 years which cannot be abrogated even by God himself but all must be fulfilled." I have referred there Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT which says:
"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way."
On your "There is no such things as selling daughters and purchasing foreigners in the Bible, besides the Bible is the inspired word of God written by more than 40 inspired writers in the space of more 2,600 years which cannot be abrogated even by God himself but all must be fulfilled." I have referred there Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT which says:
"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way."
written by Reed Wilson. , September 21, 2012
Clement. I have posted for and will appear if pass the test. Normally it comes.
On your "There is no such things as selling daughters and purchasing foreigners in the Bible, besides the Bible is the inspired word of God written by more than 40 inspired writers in the space of more 2,600 years which cannot be abrogated even by God himself but all must be fulfilled." I have referred there Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT which says:
"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way."
On your "There is no such things as selling daughters and purchasing foreigners in the Bible, besides the Bible is the inspired word of God written by more than 40 inspired writers in the space of more 2,600 years which cannot be abrogated even by God himself but all must be fulfilled." I have referred there Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT which says:
"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way."
written by Jimat Khorasan , September 21, 2012
Beautifully written and presented article; keep them coming Jake.
I just hope Muslims (especially the educated ones) will get to read them and perhaps sit back and take a hard look at Islam to understand all the lies it has foisted on the gullible and impressionable.
Islam was never a religion based on peace or love or spirituality. The quicker Muslims realise that Islam is nothing but a cult of one mad man....the quicker they can re-connect with humanity and mankind.
I just hope Muslims (especially the educated ones) will get to read them and perhaps sit back and take a hard look at Islam to understand all the lies it has foisted on the gullible and impressionable.
Islam was never a religion based on peace or love or spirituality. The quicker Muslims realise that Islam is nothing but a cult of one mad man....the quicker they can re-connect with humanity and mankind.
written by ali1050 , September 21, 2012
all u have discussed above are lies.
Islam is religion of peace and Muhammad(s.a.w) is most perfect men as even one non believer when wrote
book on top hundered personalities he keep Hazrat Muhammad(s.a.w) at first place.
Islam is fast growing religion of world and U cannot stop spreading Islam by these acts..
i will not abuse u because my religion Islam don't allow me.
Islam is religion of peace and Muhammad(s.a.w) is most perfect men as even one non believer when wrote
book on top hundered personalities he keep Hazrat Muhammad(s.a.w) at first place.
Islam is fast growing religion of world and U cannot stop spreading Islam by these acts..
i will not abuse u because my religion Islam don't allow me.
written by Liberal Fundamentalist , September 21, 2012
Do yourself a favor. Read all the hadiths, passages in Koran that Islam-watch is so fond of dissing. If you find these are in fact part of the Islamic scripture, repudiate them. But then you would not be a muslim, for you'd have denounced the very fundamentals on which the Islamic cult is based.
"i will not abuse u because my religion Islam don't allow me."
You're simply pathetic, obviously you've not read your Koran and the hadiths and of course the salacious book of bokhari. Read them and you'd not make such an idiotic statement. You give retards a bad name.
"i will not abuse u because my religion Islam don't allow me."
You're simply pathetic, obviously you've not read your Koran and the hadiths and of course the salacious book of bokhari. Read them and you'd not make such an idiotic statement. You give retards a bad name.
written by abc , September 21, 2012
That's right, do not stoop to their level.
Just read the spaz attack from "liberal fundamentalist".
It hurts them!!
Just read the spaz attack from "liberal fundamentalist".
It hurts them!!
written by 1proudkaffur4life , September 22, 2012
"Reed Wilson"
Please stop acting as if "the Bible" is a teaching from a "different" deity, after all your stoned-gawd claimed that all Old Testament prophets were sent by him!
[quote:
002:136 "Say: We believe in God and that which had been revealed to us, and that which was revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and that which was given to Moses and Jesus, and that which was given to the prophets from their Lord, we do not make any distinction (Arabic: Nufarriqu) between any of them, and to Him do we submit.
end quote]
May I remind you that you posted this some days ago?
Now "Leviticus 25:44-46" was given by allah as YOU posted the quote,
Which implies without a doubt that the Old Testament Laws (which was given to Moses!) as well as all the revelations given to 12 major and 6 minor "prophets" IIRC (if I remember correctly ) came from YOUR stoned-gawd allah!
It seems some Muslims want to claim that the Bible was given by their stoned-gawd allah, when it suits their purpose, but wants to disassociate themselves when it does not suit their agenda?
Now you tell me that the "Bible is the work of humans"?
Also you typed:
[Quote:
The human effort it may be but the humans responsible for Bible compilation were not having much intelligence and modern exposure and insight to match the requirement of all ages.
The Bible needed revision. It was revised and should be further revised to the extent of expurgating various portions.
end quote]
You eagerly insist that the Bible was written by humans, yet also insist that the same CAN NOT be true for the Koran. How can you so be DARN SURE that ONLY THE BIBLE was changed by humans, and the Koran not? Just because you WISH it to be so? Yet over and over again we can see how Muslims claim that their "true Islam/Koran" is being FALSIFIED by "extremists". Many people in on-line forums claimed that the violence of the last few days have nothing to do with Islam. Again if this is true WHY DO people like you not clean up the mess within the ISLAMIC world FIRST and bring the TRUE ISLAM/KORAN to them!?
Please stop acting as if "the Bible" is a teaching from a "different" deity, after all your stoned-gawd claimed that all Old Testament prophets were sent by him!
[quote:
002:136 "Say: We believe in God and that which had been revealed to us, and that which was revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and that which was given to Moses and Jesus, and that which was given to the prophets from their Lord, we do not make any distinction (Arabic: Nufarriqu) between any of them, and to Him do we submit.
end quote]
May I remind you that you posted this some days ago?
Now "Leviticus 25:44-46" was given by allah as YOU posted the quote,
Which implies without a doubt that the Old Testament Laws (which was given to Moses!) as well as all the revelations given to 12 major and 6 minor "prophets" IIRC (if I remember correctly ) came from YOUR stoned-gawd allah!
It seems some Muslims want to claim that the Bible was given by their stoned-gawd allah, when it suits their purpose, but wants to disassociate themselves when it does not suit their agenda?
Now you tell me that the "Bible is the work of humans"?
Also you typed:
[Quote:
The human effort it may be but the humans responsible for Bible compilation were not having much intelligence and modern exposure and insight to match the requirement of all ages.
The Bible needed revision. It was revised and should be further revised to the extent of expurgating various portions.
end quote]
You eagerly insist that the Bible was written by humans, yet also insist that the same CAN NOT be true for the Koran. How can you so be DARN SURE that ONLY THE BIBLE was changed by humans, and the Koran not? Just because you WISH it to be so? Yet over and over again we can see how Muslims claim that their "true Islam/Koran" is being FALSIFIED by "extremists". Many people in on-line forums claimed that the violence of the last few days have nothing to do with Islam. Again if this is true WHY DO people like you not clean up the mess within the ISLAMIC world FIRST and bring the TRUE ISLAM/KORAN to them!?
written by abc , September 22, 2012
"written by 1proudkaffur4life, September 22, 2012
"Reed Wilson"
Please stop acting as if "the Bible" is a teaching from a "different" deity, after all your stoned-gawd claimed that all Old Testament prophets were sent by him"
Where is that Christian yibel????
"Reed Wilson"
Please stop acting as if "the Bible" is a teaching from a "different" deity, after all your stoned-gawd claimed that all Old Testament prophets were sent by him"
Where is that Christian yibel????
written by Reed Wilson. , September 22, 2012
abc. You write ""Reed Wilson" Please stop acting as if "the Bible" is a teaching from a "different" deity, after all your stoned-gawd claimed that all Old Testament prophets were sent by him"
Yes the OT apostles were sent by him. The issue is not that. The issue is Bible is human endeavor. Quran recognizes previous scripture being sent by Allah and that same message was sent through them.
But abc Bible is not there. May not be there!! But Bible is written by not less than 40 human beings inspired by God. This is what Clement claims. Who wrote what is not clear. Who is not inspired? It contains objectionable things. I give a comment of duh_swami below
duh_swami , February 04, 2012
"You said there was no slavery in the Bible, that it was indentured servitude...When you purchase a person and can own them and do what you want to them and pass them on to their children as possessions, that is not indentured servitude, it is slavery...You can't talk your way out of that, there are other examples as well...Circumstances as to why you sold your daughter into slavery does not alter the fact that the daughter was sold into slavery...Purchased people are slaves, people who are property are slaves...Your explanations are lame...
"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way". (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
Bible itself is not making a claim that it is from God. Time and again 'inspired persons' revise Bible. You can also revise and give a 'New Version' or Standard Version. You have heard 'to err is human' but not 'to make blunders is human'.
You ask "Where is that Christian yibel????
For him it is more convenient to talk about Quran rather than of Bible. He chose the easier course.
Yes the OT apostles were sent by him. The issue is not that. The issue is Bible is human endeavor. Quran recognizes previous scripture being sent by Allah and that same message was sent through them.
But abc Bible is not there. May not be there!! But Bible is written by not less than 40 human beings inspired by God. This is what Clement claims. Who wrote what is not clear. Who is not inspired? It contains objectionable things. I give a comment of duh_swami below
duh_swami , February 04, 2012
"You said there was no slavery in the Bible, that it was indentured servitude...When you purchase a person and can own them and do what you want to them and pass them on to their children as possessions, that is not indentured servitude, it is slavery...You can't talk your way out of that, there are other examples as well...Circumstances as to why you sold your daughter into slavery does not alter the fact that the daughter was sold into slavery...Purchased people are slaves, people who are property are slaves...Your explanations are lame...
"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way". (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
Bible itself is not making a claim that it is from God. Time and again 'inspired persons' revise Bible. You can also revise and give a 'New Version' or Standard Version. You have heard 'to err is human' but not 'to make blunders is human'.
You ask "Where is that Christian yibel????
For him it is more convenient to talk about Quran rather than of Bible. He chose the easier course.
written by Reed Wilson. , September 22, 2012
abc. Not only OT apostles but also New Testament apostles are owned by Quran. Jesus and John the Baptist is also there and very significantly there.
I dont find the Gospel in the Bible which Jesus referred at many places in Gospel of Mark and Gospel of Luke. Also on several other places.
Now the discovery of Scrolls of the Dead has made a severe blow on the legimacy of the Holy Bible.
I dont find the Gospel in the Bible which Jesus referred at many places in Gospel of Mark and Gospel of Luke. Also on several other places.
Now the discovery of Scrolls of the Dead has made a severe blow on the legimacy of the Holy Bible.
written by Reed Wilson. , September 22, 2012
Please read as
Now the discovery of Scrolls of the Dead Sea has made a severe blow on the legitimacy of the Holy Bible
Now the discovery of Scrolls of the Dead Sea has made a severe blow on the legitimacy of the Holy Bible
written by numan , September 22, 2012
Our HOLY PROPHET MUHAMMAD (S.A.W) is not God. But in the holy book Quran ALLAH says in very clear words that..
Every act of MUHAMMAD (P.B.U.H) is not the act of MUHAMMAD (P.B.U.H) but ALLAH.
So it is blasphemy to ridicule MUHAMMAD (P.B.U.H)
Every act of MUHAMMAD (P.B.U.H) is not the act of MUHAMMAD (P.B.U.H) but ALLAH.
So it is blasphemy to ridicule MUHAMMAD (P.B.U.H)
written by Numan , September 22, 2012
Jews is the nation who could not follow the instructions of their own prophet Musa (A.S) how can we hope that they will respect other nation. it is useless to teach them, I am so sorry over this that i have to say this sentence, its not fear.It is the teaching of islam, it strictly stops to ridicule other nation.
We are proud to be the nation of holy Prophet MUHAMMAD (S.A.W).
we never ridicule other holy books or personality, its not the teaching of islam nd MUHAMMAD (S.A.W) instead of this we accept their existence as sacred people or religion.
We are proud to be the nation of holy Prophet MUHAMMAD (S.A.W).
we never ridicule other holy books or personality, its not the teaching of islam nd MUHAMMAD (S.A.W) instead of this we accept their existence as sacred people or religion.
written by Reed Wilson. , September 22, 2012
ANNAND you write "Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare,
Historical evidence is not needed. The instructions are even for today. I have explained this to Arch which I quote here:
Archpagan. A verse is like a reference to locate the message. It may not give a message. For example
Mathew 26:1- 5 When Jesus had finished saying all these things, he said to his disciples, 2 “As you know, the Passover is two days away—and the Son of Man will be handed over to be crucified.” 3 Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, 4 and they schemed to arrest Jesus secretly and kill him. 5 “But not during the festival,” they said, “or there may be a riot among the people.”
Archpagan if I just give "Matthw 26:3 Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas" it will not make much sense. You need to read 1-5 to make out something.
Similarly in order to understand 2:193, you at least have to start from 2:190 which I read for you
"Fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors. (190)And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. (191) And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (192) Fight them until there is no fitnah and worship is for Allah. But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors." (193)
Please observe that:
1.Fighting is with aggressors.
2.It is not for material reason i.e. occupation, land grabbing etc.
3.The limits are prescribed. Don’t have to transgress.
4.There are some more beauties there.
The impugned verses which provoked you, are selected by fineliving who posted above and I used them as ready made.
Historical evidence is not needed. The instructions are even for today. I have explained this to Arch which I quote here:
Archpagan. A verse is like a reference to locate the message. It may not give a message. For example
Mathew 26:1- 5 When Jesus had finished saying all these things, he said to his disciples, 2 “As you know, the Passover is two days away—and the Son of Man will be handed over to be crucified.” 3 Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, 4 and they schemed to arrest Jesus secretly and kill him. 5 “But not during the festival,” they said, “or there may be a riot among the people.”
Archpagan if I just give "Matthw 26:3 Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas" it will not make much sense. You need to read 1-5 to make out something.
Similarly in order to understand 2:193, you at least have to start from 2:190 which I read for you
"Fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors. (190)And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. (191) And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (192) Fight them until there is no fitnah and worship is for Allah. But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors." (193)
Please observe that:
1.Fighting is with aggressors.
2.It is not for material reason i.e. occupation, land grabbing etc.
3.The limits are prescribed. Don’t have to transgress.
4.There are some more beauties there.
The impugned verses which provoked you, are selected by fineliving who posted above and I used them as ready made.
written by 1proudkaffur4life , September 22, 2012
"Reed Wilson"
Point one:
Define "aggressors" from your "kooraan".
4:88-89
88 Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.
89 They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-
Looks to me that anybody who turns away from allah is an aggressor or what?
Just because the "kooraan" claims to be the "words" of your demented stoned-gawd allah does NOT make it the words of any real DEITY! I've have here a book called: "New Teachings for an awakening Humanity" allegedly the WORDS OF Jesus Christ! Jesus "spiritually" visited this person and gave the message so the claim, which can NOT by any means be verified! In the same way you (or any other Muslim for that matter) simply can NOT verify in any way the "accuracy of the kooraan! You say that humans have added the "ahadits" yet maintain that in the same way they simply could not do so with the kooraan. Every time "Muslims" claim that "radical Muslim" interpret the kooraan wrongly, they poke a whole into that argument, humans can AND DO change the meaning/words of the "kooraan", if one accepts this "excuse".
Again what evidence do you have that the kooraan was not changed, or that it is a exact copy of the one IN heaven, IF such a thing would even be the case? You (and your brothers of faith) have NOTHING but BLIND FAITH to offer! Just to demand to have blind Faith is not going to do it, and allah has so far failed to prove his existence...
Again I repeat my question to you Muslims here, how often do you "recite" the "Lords Prayer" in your devotional life? Reed, for a Ex-Christian I am sure you know what I mean?
Now for the "dead sea scrolls" I do not get the point why they should be relevant here, but I'll draw the "time-line" these scrolls were written at a time the "Christian faith" was nothing more than a fledgling "Jewish sect" so of course it would reflect the teachings and ideas of Jews who themselves might have been a "fringe Jewish" sect as well.
Point one:
Define "aggressors" from your "kooraan".
4:88-89
88 Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.
89 They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-
Looks to me that anybody who turns away from allah is an aggressor or what?
Just because the "kooraan" claims to be the "words" of your demented stoned-gawd allah does NOT make it the words of any real DEITY! I've have here a book called: "New Teachings for an awakening Humanity" allegedly the WORDS OF Jesus Christ! Jesus "spiritually" visited this person and gave the message so the claim, which can NOT by any means be verified! In the same way you (or any other Muslim for that matter) simply can NOT verify in any way the "accuracy of the kooraan! You say that humans have added the "ahadits" yet maintain that in the same way they simply could not do so with the kooraan. Every time "Muslims" claim that "radical Muslim" interpret the kooraan wrongly, they poke a whole into that argument, humans can AND DO change the meaning/words of the "kooraan", if one accepts this "excuse".
Again what evidence do you have that the kooraan was not changed, or that it is a exact copy of the one IN heaven, IF such a thing would even be the case? You (and your brothers of faith) have NOTHING but BLIND FAITH to offer! Just to demand to have blind Faith is not going to do it, and allah has so far failed to prove his existence...
Again I repeat my question to you Muslims here, how often do you "recite" the "Lords Prayer" in your devotional life? Reed, for a Ex-Christian I am sure you know what I mean?
Now for the "dead sea scrolls" I do not get the point why they should be relevant here, but I'll draw the "time-line" these scrolls were written at a time the "Christian faith" was nothing more than a fledgling "Jewish sect" so of course it would reflect the teachings and ideas of Jews who themselves might have been a "fringe Jewish" sect as well.
written by IMRAN , September 23, 2012
10 reasons to believe – Why Muhammad was a false prophet?
(1) No extraordinary natural signs before birth of Muhammad, or predictions from past religious characters about arrival of Muhammad to save the world.
(2) Islam was not existed on the time Muhammad was born. His birth took place in an idolater family and that´s what he followed all his childhood and teenage. That means Muhammad himself was born as a Qafir (Infidel) and spent 70% of his life as a proud infidel until he invented Islam.
(3) His first marriage was with a Jewish woman and not with any muslimah. The question is which religious form was adopted at his marriage ceremony with a Jewish woman if Islam still didn´t appear on that time? Well the truth is that it was a pure Jewish style marriage ceremony. Even Quran doesn´t mention anything about the Islamic ceremony of Prophet Muhammad´s first marriage. That shows how even Muhammad didn´t have any idea of existence of Islam or his prophecy.
(4) If Muhammad was an adorable prophet sent by Allah then why didn´t he reveal the truth about Islam, when he was a child or when he got young? Why did he waste time until 40 years of his age? If his purpose to come in this world was only to reveal Islam and preach people then why did he wait until more than half of his life, having all kind of sexual and economical fun, living like a common man for years and years?
(5) Almost all the rituals and rules of Islam mentioned in Quran are copied from Judaism which shows how deeply Muhammad was inspired from Judaism and attracted towards Torah. That is why the easiest way to invent a new religion he found was to copy and paste from Torah to Quran.
(1) No extraordinary natural signs before birth of Muhammad, or predictions from past religious characters about arrival of Muhammad to save the world.
(2) Islam was not existed on the time Muhammad was born. His birth took place in an idolater family and that´s what he followed all his childhood and teenage. That means Muhammad himself was born as a Qafir (Infidel) and spent 70% of his life as a proud infidel until he invented Islam.
(3) His first marriage was with a Jewish woman and not with any muslimah. The question is which religious form was adopted at his marriage ceremony with a Jewish woman if Islam still didn´t appear on that time? Well the truth is that it was a pure Jewish style marriage ceremony. Even Quran doesn´t mention anything about the Islamic ceremony of Prophet Muhammad´s first marriage. That shows how even Muhammad didn´t have any idea of existence of Islam or his prophecy.
(4) If Muhammad was an adorable prophet sent by Allah then why didn´t he reveal the truth about Islam, when he was a child or when he got young? Why did he waste time until 40 years of his age? If his purpose to come in this world was only to reveal Islam and preach people then why did he wait until more than half of his life, having all kind of sexual and economical fun, living like a common man for years and years?
(5) Almost all the rituals and rules of Islam mentioned in Quran are copied from Judaism which shows how deeply Muhammad was inspired from Judaism and attracted towards Torah. That is why the easiest way to invent a new religion he found was to copy and paste from Torah to Quran.
written by IMRAN , September 23, 2012
(6) Muhammad spreaded Islam on the point of the sword and not with love and preaching. His strategy was to rule at any price.
(7) Muhammad killed poor, innocent and helpless people which can´t be justified in any sense as the acts of a holy prophet.
(8) Instead of calling himself a holy prophet, Muhammad abused sexually to uncountable women including some of them ridiculously shameful like the marriage with minor Aisha and his own daughter in law. That proves that Muhammad was just another powerful dictator who knew very well how to take advantage of his power and abuse everyone, anywhere and in any way.
(9) Muhammad never did any miracle which a prophet is supposed to do, instead of helping the suffering people, he used to destroy well settled, full of love and peaceful families, capturing their lands and making slave to the crying children and women.
(10) In his life, Muhammad did a huge destruction towards humanity but that was enough for his satanic mind that is why before dying he left the mentality and messages of Jihad for his followers in the name of religion which is still causing a huge suffering to our lives. I mean to say that a prophet would never want to destroy lives but will sacrifice his own life for his people. It shows that Muhammad was nor a prophet in his life neither after dying.
Please give me example of any other holy personality of any other religion who committed such crimes. Let´s have a look at some other famous religious characters from history:
Jesus Christ: He didn´t initiate any war, never killed innocent people and didn´t abuse women like Muhammad. The proof of that is that he never even married. He has not left any question mark on his character before leaving this world.
Budha: A man who left his home, luxury life and all the advantages he could have because of his rich background, just because he was really looking for truth and peace and make them reach to the humanity, which he did without putting sword on anyone´s neck. That calls a truly holy personality.
Ram: Even in Hinduism, the idol god of Hindus “Ram” was a perfect holy man, who spent many years of his life in jungles, leaving behind his entire luxurious kingdom. He never killed or tortured poor people. He never forced someone to embrace Hinduism. That’s another example of how a holy person should be.
(7) Muhammad killed poor, innocent and helpless people which can´t be justified in any sense as the acts of a holy prophet.
(8) Instead of calling himself a holy prophet, Muhammad abused sexually to uncountable women including some of them ridiculously shameful like the marriage with minor Aisha and his own daughter in law. That proves that Muhammad was just another powerful dictator who knew very well how to take advantage of his power and abuse everyone, anywhere and in any way.
(9) Muhammad never did any miracle which a prophet is supposed to do, instead of helping the suffering people, he used to destroy well settled, full of love and peaceful families, capturing their lands and making slave to the crying children and women.
(10) In his life, Muhammad did a huge destruction towards humanity but that was enough for his satanic mind that is why before dying he left the mentality and messages of Jihad for his followers in the name of religion which is still causing a huge suffering to our lives. I mean to say that a prophet would never want to destroy lives but will sacrifice his own life for his people. It shows that Muhammad was nor a prophet in his life neither after dying.
Please give me example of any other holy personality of any other religion who committed such crimes. Let´s have a look at some other famous religious characters from history:
Jesus Christ: He didn´t initiate any war, never killed innocent people and didn´t abuse women like Muhammad. The proof of that is that he never even married. He has not left any question mark on his character before leaving this world.
Budha: A man who left his home, luxury life and all the advantages he could have because of his rich background, just because he was really looking for truth and peace and make them reach to the humanity, which he did without putting sword on anyone´s neck. That calls a truly holy personality.
Ram: Even in Hinduism, the idol god of Hindus “Ram” was a perfect holy man, who spent many years of his life in jungles, leaving behind his entire luxurious kingdom. He never killed or tortured poor people. He never forced someone to embrace Hinduism. That’s another example of how a holy person should be.
written by IMRAN , September 23, 2012
I am not justifying that any of the religion mentioned above is true, but all what I want to say is that in comparison of Muhammad any other religious personality is standing high and clean without having a dubious character.
But on the other hand the dirty Muhammad did all what humanity and laws do not allow. Do you still say that Muhammad was a bloody prophet? Oh come on. Don’t be so stubborn. Come out of the illusion, accept the reality and be practical. A man who cunningly declared himself a prophet, made fool to the world by copying and pasting the content of Torah in his self created book “Quran” can´t be a prophet. A man who never gave life to someone but snatched lives of innocent people can´t be part of any religion. A man who before leaving this world has left so much pain, controversies and destruction do not deserve to be called a prophet sent by god.
Muhammad by himself has left a big black question mark on his character because of what he will never ever be accepted as a holy prophet by those who are educated, have sense to understand the things and are enough brave to call dirty what is dirty.
Muhammad: you are on curse of many widows, orphan children and helpless parents who got their loving children becoming victims of your cunning desires. Shame on you bloody self claimed prophet.
Thank you very much
Imran Firasat (Spain)
A proud ex Muslim
But on the other hand the dirty Muhammad did all what humanity and laws do not allow. Do you still say that Muhammad was a bloody prophet? Oh come on. Don’t be so stubborn. Come out of the illusion, accept the reality and be practical. A man who cunningly declared himself a prophet, made fool to the world by copying and pasting the content of Torah in his self created book “Quran” can´t be a prophet. A man who never gave life to someone but snatched lives of innocent people can´t be part of any religion. A man who before leaving this world has left so much pain, controversies and destruction do not deserve to be called a prophet sent by god.
Muhammad by himself has left a big black question mark on his character because of what he will never ever be accepted as a holy prophet by those who are educated, have sense to understand the things and are enough brave to call dirty what is dirty.
Muhammad: you are on curse of many widows, orphan children and helpless parents who got their loving children becoming victims of your cunning desires. Shame on you bloody self claimed prophet.
Thank you very much
Imran Firasat (Spain)
A proud ex Muslim
written by abc , September 23, 2012
Have you just had a spaz attack!
Copy and paste merchant!
Which of your points would you like to be destroyed?
You choose for the laugh!!
Copy and paste merchant!
Which of your points would you like to be destroyed?
You choose for the laugh!!
written by Reed Wilson , September 23, 2012
1proudkaffur4life. You write ""Reed Wilson"Point one: Define "aggressors" from your "kooraan".
My very dear friend. We have an ongoing discussion on 'Bible is a human endeavor'. Is this post a reaction of my last post. This is altogether a new debate you are initiating.
"Just because the "kooraan" claims to be the "words" of your demented stoned-gawd allah does NOT make it the words of any real DEITY!
What is stoned-gawd? Is the 'stoned gawd' author of Quran?
"Again I repeat my question to you Muslims here, how often do you "recite" the "Lords Prayer" in your devotional life? Reed, for a Ex-Christian I am sure you know what I mean?
This is no question.
"Now for the "dead sea scrolls" I do not get the point why they should be relevant here, but I'll draw the "time-line" these scrolls were written at a time the "Christian faith" was nothing more than a fledgling "Jewish sect" so of course it would reflect the teachings and ideas of Jews who themselves might have been a "fringe Jewish" sect as well."
How can you say that? Dead Sea Scrolls should have been in the Bible, in Old Testament, had it be complete.
Now please dont take me to other topics to digress from the one we were mooting with you ie Bible is human endeavor. My observations regarding Bible in my previous post are not being dealt with. You are escaping.
My very dear friend. We have an ongoing discussion on 'Bible is a human endeavor'. Is this post a reaction of my last post. This is altogether a new debate you are initiating.
"Just because the "kooraan" claims to be the "words" of your demented stoned-gawd allah does NOT make it the words of any real DEITY!
What is stoned-gawd? Is the 'stoned gawd' author of Quran?
"Again I repeat my question to you Muslims here, how often do you "recite" the "Lords Prayer" in your devotional life? Reed, for a Ex-Christian I am sure you know what I mean?
This is no question.
"Now for the "dead sea scrolls" I do not get the point why they should be relevant here, but I'll draw the "time-line" these scrolls were written at a time the "Christian faith" was nothing more than a fledgling "Jewish sect" so of course it would reflect the teachings and ideas of Jews who themselves might have been a "fringe Jewish" sect as well."
How can you say that? Dead Sea Scrolls should have been in the Bible, in Old Testament, had it be complete.
Now please dont take me to other topics to digress from the one we were mooting with you ie Bible is human endeavor. My observations regarding Bible in my previous post are not being dealt with. You are escaping.
written by Liberal Fundamentalist , September 23, 2012
Put your money where your mouth is.
For starters, just refute if not condemn the passages in the koran, the hadiths including aspects of Ol' camel turd's life that are at odds with the general sense of "civility, decency and of course, the oft repeated morality".
Once you've done this you automatically cease to be a muzzie. How laughable is that?
Moreover, then you have your zealot coreligionists baying for your head and if you aren't too careful they'd serve it on a platter and make a video out of it and post it on youtube.
Till such time, you'd forgive me if I take declarations of "righteousness" with a pinch of salt.
For starters, just refute if not condemn the passages in the koran, the hadiths including aspects of Ol' camel turd's life that are at odds with the general sense of "civility, decency and of course, the oft repeated morality".
Once you've done this you automatically cease to be a muzzie. How laughable is that?
Moreover, then you have your zealot coreligionists baying for your head and if you aren't too careful they'd serve it on a platter and make a video out of it and post it on youtube.
Till such time, you'd forgive me if I take declarations of "righteousness" with a pinch of salt.
written by abc , September 23, 2012
Do you even have a point in amongst all the garbage you type?
Wha wha wha! Typical hater, talking loud but saying nothing!
Wha wha wha! Typical hater, talking loud but saying nothing!
written by 1proudkaffur4life , September 24, 2012
I prepared this for the "is allah real" thread but I'll post it here.
Ever wondered why I use these term? Sorry this needs some explanation.
OK lets say a man sees a rather pretty Muslim girl. I know that is seldom but once in a while this can happen, and he courts her. First she thinks to respond to him could in the long run turn out to be a effort to "proselytize" and to bring him into the Muslim faith. Yet he has no inclinations at all, and so after some time she stops to meet him. Now the guy gets so angry and one day he gets her "for the last talk" into his flat. Then he knocks her out, and locks her up in a special prepared room. So he commits the crime of kidnapping and false imprisonment. And all because she does not "love" him, or responds to his advances. Now in our society if this is discovered that guy himself is locked up behind bars and maybe to top it off in a mental institution!
Yet when reading the kooraan, we can see the same behavior by the "demented stoned-gawd" allah, who not only writes the script (where each person winds up Paradise/Hell) and punishes them for the fate allah predetermined! He decides whom he will lead into Paradise and who will stray from the right path.
What we would condemn in humans (kidnapping & imprisonment) we should "respect" "honor" and bow in admiration because "allah" is a deity?
In case you still do not get the point "stoned-gawd" allah is your deity allah claimed author of kooraan. And no I do not think this figment of imagination deserves to be called even "god". So "gawd" will do..
Ever wondered why I use these term? Sorry this needs some explanation.
OK lets say a man sees a rather pretty Muslim girl. I know that is seldom but once in a while this can happen, and he courts her. First she thinks to respond to him could in the long run turn out to be a effort to "proselytize" and to bring him into the Muslim faith. Yet he has no inclinations at all, and so after some time she stops to meet him. Now the guy gets so angry and one day he gets her "for the last talk" into his flat. Then he knocks her out, and locks her up in a special prepared room. So he commits the crime of kidnapping and false imprisonment. And all because she does not "love" him, or responds to his advances. Now in our society if this is discovered that guy himself is locked up behind bars and maybe to top it off in a mental institution!
Yet when reading the kooraan, we can see the same behavior by the "demented stoned-gawd" allah, who not only writes the script (where each person winds up Paradise/Hell) and punishes them for the fate allah predetermined! He decides whom he will lead into Paradise and who will stray from the right path.
What we would condemn in humans (kidnapping & imprisonment) we should "respect" "honor" and bow in admiration because "allah" is a deity?
In case you still do not get the point "stoned-gawd" allah is your deity allah claimed author of kooraan. And no I do not think this figment of imagination deserves to be called even "god". So "gawd" will do..
written by 1proudkaffur4life , September 24, 2012
As to your insistence the Bible written by humans, will you now CONTRADICT the statement of your deity allah, who claims he send all prophets including Moses and Jesus?
OK give proof positive that when the words of MuahamMAD fell from his lips, they on the SPOT that very instant were written down on paper or other medium. Or is it not rather so that humans used their language and passed it on orally for some time before it was recorded.
BTW it was you who brought the issue of the dead sea scrolls into the debate, (not to a reply to me, but nonetheless it was you) because you think the writings of a small Jewish sect should be included in the Bible yet how could this happen, if they were found in 1946 and later? Do you have the nerve to tell me, which issues I can pick up, especially when you toss them in?
Besides I find it rather funny that you make a issue out of it that its writings were not included in the Bible, when you yourself discard the ahadits, because some are not reliable.
Further the early Christians focused more on the words and deeds of Jesus and the Apostles and choose to include the most important Jewish writings in their.
So what proof can you offer that the kooraan (quran) is the words of any real deity?
As I wrote before may times, many Muslims CHANGE the kooran, we've seen a whitewashed version here as well. You also claim that Jesus is important in Islam, yet you do not answer the question if you still recite the only prayer coming from Jesus a Muslim
OK give proof positive that when the words of MuahamMAD fell from his lips, they on the SPOT that very instant were written down on paper or other medium. Or is it not rather so that humans used their language and passed it on orally for some time before it was recorded.
BTW it was you who brought the issue of the dead sea scrolls into the debate, (not to a reply to me, but nonetheless it was you) because you think the writings of a small Jewish sect should be included in the Bible yet how could this happen, if they were found in 1946 and later? Do you have the nerve to tell me, which issues I can pick up, especially when you toss them in?
Besides I find it rather funny that you make a issue out of it that its writings were not included in the Bible, when you yourself discard the ahadits, because some are not reliable.
Further the early Christians focused more on the words and deeds of Jesus and the Apostles and choose to include the most important Jewish writings in their.
So what proof can you offer that the kooraan (quran) is the words of any real deity?
As I wrote before may times, many Muslims CHANGE the kooran, we've seen a whitewashed version here as well. You also claim that Jesus is important in Islam, yet you do not answer the question if you still recite the only prayer coming from Jesus a Muslim
written by Yibel , September 24, 2012
@ Reed Wilson: " Dead Sea Scrolls should have been in the Bible, in Old Testament, had it be complete. "
I repeat to you:
The Dead Sea Scrolls ARE the Scrolls/Books of the Old Testament of the Bible.
All of them except for two, which may turn up as there are many caves still unexplored in the area where the scrolls known as The Dead Sea Scrolls were found. These scrolls are the SAME scrolls (books) that are found in the Old Testament of the Bible. No difference!!! SAME BOOKS! No difference! SAME BOOKS! Written in the original Hebrew.
See pictures of the complete Book of (the prophet) Isaiah which is on display in Jerusalem. Look up this information on-line. Google Dead Sea Scrolls. Learn something! Get an education!
I repeat to you:
The Dead Sea Scrolls ARE the Scrolls/Books of the Old Testament of the Bible.
All of them except for two, which may turn up as there are many caves still unexplored in the area where the scrolls known as The Dead Sea Scrolls were found. These scrolls are the SAME scrolls (books) that are found in the Old Testament of the Bible. No difference!!! SAME BOOKS! No difference! SAME BOOKS! Written in the original Hebrew.
See pictures of the complete Book of (the prophet) Isaiah which is on display in Jerusalem. Look up this information on-line. Google Dead Sea Scrolls. Learn something! Get an education!
written by Reed Wilson , September 24, 2012
Yibel. You write "The Dead Sea Scrolls ARE the Scrolls/Books of the Old Testament of the Bible.
All of them except for two, which may turn up as there are many caves still unexplored in the area where the scrolls known as The Dead Sea Scrolls were found."
Noted. What about remaining things? Do you agree that Bible is human endeavor.
All of them except for two, which may turn up as there are many caves still unexplored in the area where the scrolls known as The Dead Sea Scrolls were found."
Noted. What about remaining things? Do you agree that Bible is human endeavor.
written by Reed Wilson , September 24, 2012
1proudkaffur4life. We are not discussing Quran here. If Quran was not divine for the sake of argument, will you agree that Bible is not divine.
Isnt it a fact that OT was authored by not less than 40 persons, human with all respects? Isnt it a fact that it is REVISED by humans and revised to an extent of rejecting and expurgating some chapters? The style of Bible is 'reported peach'. Mostly it is based on human memory.
I give here an honest confession of St. Luke
Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.
Isnt it based on memory?
Isnt it a fact that OT was authored by not less than 40 persons, human with all respects? Isnt it a fact that it is REVISED by humans and revised to an extent of rejecting and expurgating some chapters? The style of Bible is 'reported peach'. Mostly it is based on human memory.
I give here an honest confession of St. Luke
Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.
Isnt it based on memory?
written by 1proudkaffur4life , September 25, 2012
Reed Wilson with all due respect: Will you answer this question:
If your allah says that he gave the Old Testament and the Gospels why do you insist that it is human work?
Will you contradict ALLAHS words? After all he claimed to have send many UNNAMED prophets and messengers, now how can you know that those "authors" of the Bible WERE NOT in fact these "prophets" your allah used to give the Old Testament? Does your allah not have all the might to choose the means how to convey his message? He insists that he can do all things, now will you tell us that your allah could not choose "prophets" like he picked out MuahamMAD?
I asked before: DID THE quran drop out of the sky?
After you answer this point, I'll address your question. You ignored the point I made. So humans put your quran together. Of course nobody besides MuahamMAD "heard" the "revelations" he received. So it was absolutely necessary that humans wrote down allahs words.
80 13 (It is) in Books held (greatly) in honour, 14 Exalted (in dignity), kept pure and holy, 15 (Written) by the hands of scribes- 16 Honourable and Pious and Just.
Since the kooran is only "one" book, which books are meant here? If not the books of the Old Testament and maybe also the New Testament!"
If your allah says that he gave the Old Testament and the Gospels why do you insist that it is human work?
Will you contradict ALLAHS words? After all he claimed to have send many UNNAMED prophets and messengers, now how can you know that those "authors" of the Bible WERE NOT in fact these "prophets" your allah used to give the Old Testament? Does your allah not have all the might to choose the means how to convey his message? He insists that he can do all things, now will you tell us that your allah could not choose "prophets" like he picked out MuahamMAD?
I asked before: DID THE quran drop out of the sky?
After you answer this point, I'll address your question. You ignored the point I made. So humans put your quran together. Of course nobody besides MuahamMAD "heard" the "revelations" he received. So it was absolutely necessary that humans wrote down allahs words.
80 13 (It is) in Books held (greatly) in honour, 14 Exalted (in dignity), kept pure and holy, 15 (Written) by the hands of scribes- 16 Honourable and Pious and Just.
Since the kooran is only "one" book, which books are meant here? If not the books of the Old Testament and maybe also the New Testament!"
written by 1proudkaffur4life , September 25, 2012
"Reed Wilson"
Wow I am really impressed, finally I meet a Muslim who considers the opinion of a lowly unbelieving kaffir like me to be MORE IMPORTANT then his almighty allah.
Now to the question if the book the bible is a human endeavor. Of course EVERY book is a result of the manufacturing process. Humans are the ones who fell the trees to create the paper, to mix the ink, toil to build all the physical tools needed so that one has a physical object called the bible in their hands. It is so plain, that one has to wonder why you make such a fuss over this point. Yes the PHYSICAL object called the holy book Bible is a man-made thing. There is no need to argue about that.
As to the CONTENTS of the bible.
On this point Reed Wilson seem to disagree with his own gawd allah and displays a certain level of disbelief, which most likely could lead him into eternal hell.
Once more lets see what the LAST prophet of stoned-gawd allah has to say about WHO the source is of it. He in his kooran, emphasizes that it was allah, who gave the Laws to Moses (written down by humans just like all of the quran) it was allah who gave to David the psalms, just like he gave MuahamMAD the quran. It is allah who gave Jesus the Gospels,
which were written down by humans, just like the quran was written down by humans. Allah also confirms that the "scribes" involved in writing down (at least the 66 "books of the bible" were holy pious and just people. There is no one claiming that the Bible dropped down FINISHED from heaven. It was a ongoing process, a time-consuming process to be certain. This too is like the quran which came down to MuahamMAD in a period of over 23
years. Again why should this be such a big deal that humans wrote down the bible? Especially in the light of the fact that the quran was not written down after the death of MuahamMAD, who claimed to be allah's last spokesperson.
Wow I am really impressed, finally I meet a Muslim who considers the opinion of a lowly unbelieving kaffir like me to be MORE IMPORTANT then his almighty allah.
Now to the question if the book the bible is a human endeavor. Of course EVERY book is a result of the manufacturing process. Humans are the ones who fell the trees to create the paper, to mix the ink, toil to build all the physical tools needed so that one has a physical object called the bible in their hands. It is so plain, that one has to wonder why you make such a fuss over this point. Yes the PHYSICAL object called the holy book Bible is a man-made thing. There is no need to argue about that.
As to the CONTENTS of the bible.
On this point Reed Wilson seem to disagree with his own gawd allah and displays a certain level of disbelief, which most likely could lead him into eternal hell.
Once more lets see what the LAST prophet of stoned-gawd allah has to say about WHO the source is of it. He in his kooran, emphasizes that it was allah, who gave the Laws to Moses (written down by humans just like all of the quran) it was allah who gave to David the psalms, just like he gave MuahamMAD the quran. It is allah who gave Jesus the Gospels,
which were written down by humans, just like the quran was written down by humans. Allah also confirms that the "scribes" involved in writing down (at least the 66 "books of the bible" were holy pious and just people. There is no one claiming that the Bible dropped down FINISHED from heaven. It was a ongoing process, a time-consuming process to be certain. This too is like the quran which came down to MuahamMAD in a period of over 23
years. Again why should this be such a big deal that humans wrote down the bible? Especially in the light of the fact that the quran was not written down after the death of MuahamMAD, who claimed to be allah's last spokesperson.
written by Reed Wilson , September 26, 2012
1proudkaffur4life. You write "Reed Wilson with all due respect: Will you answer this question."
You need not be so formal. You are no less respected, if I were respected.
I am afraid that I am hurting you by saying 'human endeavor'. I dont mean it. You might agree with me that even while disciplining our kids what we teach them is word of God. Like 'dont be proud' 'one should not be miser', 'do not tell lies'. 'respect your parents etc. We normally dont say that God asks us to be gentle to your parents. These would have been reported words of God. On the other hand God himself is addressing us and asking us to do all that. That is word of God.
In the Bible we do get words of God. But is not word of God from cover to cover.
You know that Bible is a compilation. This was done by we people. It comprises of chapters written by various authors. Those articles are based on memory. Human memory, unlike computer memory, may not be dependable.
In Quran you will find direct address to you like:
يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ اتَّقُوا رَبَّكُمُ الَّذِي خَلَقَكُم مِّن نَّفْسٍ وَاحِدَةٍ وَخَلَقَ مِنْهَا زَوْجَهَا وَبَثَّ مِنْهُمَا رِجَالًا كَثِيرًا وَنِسَاءً ۚ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّـهَ الَّذِي تَسَاءَلُونَ بِهِ وَالْأَرْحَامَ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّـهَ كَانَ عَلَيْكُمْ رَقِيبًا ﴿
"O people! be careful of your duty to your Lord, Who created you from a single being and created its mate of the same (kind) and spread from these two, many men and women; and be careful of your duty to Allah, by Whom you demand one of another (your rights), and (to) the ties of relationship; surely Allah ever watches over you".
You will find complete introduction of God and what he wants us to do. I am not saying it is good or bad. I give the difference.
You write "If your allah says that he gave the Old Testament and the Gospels why do you insist that it is human work?
Torah and Injil are referred there. It is also there that God gave similar message to people through ALL messengers. There are 25 names of messengers and also that there were more than those mentioned. This means more than 25 editions of message were available to people
I will not contradict Gods words because there is no word Bible in Quran and I dont find Torah and Injil there. You wil find not less than 4 Injils in the NT. The Gospel is Jesus, as referred in Gospel, is the one I am looking for.
Let me repeat St. Luke to make me understandable:
"Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught."
Quran is warning, tidings, advice, guidance etc. All these things we may find in Bible and so many other books.
You need not be so formal. You are no less respected, if I were respected.
I am afraid that I am hurting you by saying 'human endeavor'. I dont mean it. You might agree with me that even while disciplining our kids what we teach them is word of God. Like 'dont be proud' 'one should not be miser', 'do not tell lies'. 'respect your parents etc. We normally dont say that God asks us to be gentle to your parents. These would have been reported words of God. On the other hand God himself is addressing us and asking us to do all that. That is word of God.
In the Bible we do get words of God. But is not word of God from cover to cover.
You know that Bible is a compilation. This was done by we people. It comprises of chapters written by various authors. Those articles are based on memory. Human memory, unlike computer memory, may not be dependable.
In Quran you will find direct address to you like:
يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ اتَّقُوا رَبَّكُمُ الَّذِي خَلَقَكُم مِّن نَّفْسٍ وَاحِدَةٍ وَخَلَقَ مِنْهَا زَوْجَهَا وَبَثَّ مِنْهُمَا رِجَالًا كَثِيرًا وَنِسَاءً ۚ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّـهَ الَّذِي تَسَاءَلُونَ بِهِ وَالْأَرْحَامَ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّـهَ كَانَ عَلَيْكُمْ رَقِيبًا ﴿
"O people! be careful of your duty to your Lord, Who created you from a single being and created its mate of the same (kind) and spread from these two, many men and women; and be careful of your duty to Allah, by Whom you demand one of another (your rights), and (to) the ties of relationship; surely Allah ever watches over you".
You will find complete introduction of God and what he wants us to do. I am not saying it is good or bad. I give the difference.
You write "If your allah says that he gave the Old Testament and the Gospels why do you insist that it is human work?
Torah and Injil are referred there. It is also there that God gave similar message to people through ALL messengers. There are 25 names of messengers and also that there were more than those mentioned. This means more than 25 editions of message were available to people
I will not contradict Gods words because there is no word Bible in Quran and I dont find Torah and Injil there. You wil find not less than 4 Injils in the NT. The Gospel is Jesus, as referred in Gospel, is the one I am looking for.
Let me repeat St. Luke to make me understandable:
"Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught."
Quran is warning, tidings, advice, guidance etc. All these things we may find in Bible and so many other books.
written by Reed Wilson , September 26, 2012
1proudkaffur4life. I have answered your above which is under review and shall appear in course of time.
written by Liberal Fundamentalist , September 26, 2012
Don't get your knickers in a twist. If you can't get the message I'll rephrase it for your thick skull.
Apostasy for dummies- a beginners guide.
1) Grab a black thick marker pen.
2) Strike out all offending passages in Koran and the hadiths that teach you intolerance, incite you to murder and ask you to idolize Ol' camel turd, the worst example of a prophet.
Did you get it?
I think not. This is so tiresome. Sigh!
Apostasy for dummies- a beginners guide.
1) Grab a black thick marker pen.
2) Strike out all offending passages in Koran and the hadiths that teach you intolerance, incite you to murder and ask you to idolize Ol' camel turd, the worst example of a prophet.
Did you get it?
I think not. This is so tiresome. Sigh!
written by 1proudkaffur4life , September 27, 2012
What PROOF Reed Wilson can you offer that these are the ACTUAL words of allah?
quote:
"O people! be careful of your duty to your Lord, Who created you from a single being and created its mate of the same (kind) and spread from these two, many men and women; and be careful of your duty to Allah, by Whom you demand one of another (your rights), and (to) the ties of relationship; surely Allah ever watches over you".
end of quote]
These are the WORDS of MuahamMAD CLAIMING to be the words of allah, but he too just received "inspirations". MuahamMAD was already "quoting" allah! these were words SPOKEN by a human being HEARD and WRITTEN down by an another person.
You will certainly not hold the position that every time your profeet recited new verses of the quran that he TURNED INTO ALLAH, but even in that case all the words written down later were no longer the actual words of allah, but just quotes by it.
In fact you do not know (neither do I) how many people were in between the spoken and written word.
Again for me your above quote to be FROM allah, I must HEAR them MYSELF from him/her DIRECTY nothing else will do! Anything else is just hearsay, or a you insist recollection or from "memory."Nobody knows if your stoned-gawd allah SPOKE these words at all. Only the claim that it is so will not suffice!
Take a good look at the quote, do you see the enclosed words (kind) (your rights) and (to). These words ARE additions by humans to the text allegedly coming from allah! I repeat they are NOT the original words of allah! Now if they "scribes" felt the necessity to include these words, how can we know they put even more words into the text? And reading the quran one will find from "the Opening" already humans inserting words into supposedly "allahs" text.
Your quran is clearly a mixture of words allegedly spoken by allah and words by human helping allah to make his speech understandable...
quote:
"O people! be careful of your duty to your Lord, Who created you from a single being and created its mate of the same (kind) and spread from these two, many men and women; and be careful of your duty to Allah, by Whom you demand one of another (your rights), and (to) the ties of relationship; surely Allah ever watches over you".
end of quote]
These are the WORDS of MuahamMAD CLAIMING to be the words of allah, but he too just received "inspirations". MuahamMAD was already "quoting" allah! these were words SPOKEN by a human being HEARD and WRITTEN down by an another person.
You will certainly not hold the position that every time your profeet recited new verses of the quran that he TURNED INTO ALLAH, but even in that case all the words written down later were no longer the actual words of allah, but just quotes by it.
In fact you do not know (neither do I) how many people were in between the spoken and written word.
Again for me your above quote to be FROM allah, I must HEAR them MYSELF from him/her DIRECTY nothing else will do! Anything else is just hearsay, or a you insist recollection or from "memory."Nobody knows if your stoned-gawd allah SPOKE these words at all. Only the claim that it is so will not suffice!
Take a good look at the quote, do you see the enclosed words (kind) (your rights) and (to). These words ARE additions by humans to the text allegedly coming from allah! I repeat they are NOT the original words of allah! Now if they "scribes" felt the necessity to include these words, how can we know they put even more words into the text? And reading the quran one will find from "the Opening" already humans inserting words into supposedly "allahs" text.
Your quran is clearly a mixture of words allegedly spoken by allah and words by human helping allah to make his speech understandable...
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many of them can not reading quran at all.
simply voice the verse get reward.
truth sometime hurts.
see the movie with your brain.