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The Islamic Meaning of "Beating"

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Why are Muslims so touchy about the word “Beat”?


Nothing embarrasses Muslims more than the command in the Quran to beat their women. Here is what the Quran says:

As for those [women] whom you fear disobedience, admonish them, send them to beds apart, and beat them. (Surah 4:34, N. J. Dawood translation)

The Arabic word for “beat” used in Surah 4:34 is iḍribūhunna, which comes from the root ḍaraba (Arabic: ضرب). The various meanings of this word include to hit, to travel the earth, to set up, to condemn and to give examples. The word also has a crude meaning referring to sexual intercourse. So in the context of a rebellious wife who has been admonished and then forced to sleep apart from the man, which of those alternate meanings of the word would constitute the next escalation of punishment? Of those choices, only “to hit” seems logical in the context.

islam-quran-wife-beating

Sharia Law supports this interpretation. In Reliance of the Traveler, section m10.12, it states that husbands should tell their wives, “Your obeying me is religiously obligatory.” Then, if the wife commits rebelliousness, he may ultimately “hit her, but not in a way that injures her, meaning he may not break bones, wound her, or cause blood to flow.”

Since this command to beat wives makes half of the Muslim population subject to beating by the other half, it is a matter of grave concern. The California penal code, section 243(e)(1) for example, makes spousal beating an intimate partner a misdemeanor crime. A husband commits domestic battery under this section if he willfully inflicts force or violence upon his intimate partner. Intimate partners include his fiancée, his current or former spouse, someone with whom he lives, the parent of his child, or anyone he is or were dating. A man can be arrested for spousal battery under Penal Code 243 (e) (1) even if he only uses the slightest force... any unwanted physical touching will suffice. This is often referred to as simple domestic battery. This means that one doesn't actually have to injure his intimate partner to be convicted of this particular domestic violence crime. The misdemeanor becomes a felony crime of the victim is actually injured. Other state laws are similar. The husband is likewise protected from battery by his wife by this law.

Wife-beating was not a crime when Surah 4:34 was handed down in Medina in the 7th century. According to the hadith of Sahih Muslim, Book 4, Number 2127, Muhammad had hit his young wife Aisha on the chest for spying on him, and it caused her much pain.   Muhammad was also quoted as saying, “A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife.” (Sunaan Abu Dawud, Book 11, Number 42). But in the 21st Century, wife-beating is a serious problem, and Muslims know this.

Most early English versions of the Quran used “beat” or “scourge” without qualification.  In the mid-Twentieth Century, two major English translations appeared – A. J. Arberry (1955) and N. J. Dawood (1956). Both of these translations used the word “beat” in Surah 4:34. Since then, however, many translations have shied away from the word “beat.” It is interesting to see how the translation of that surah has evolved. Here are a few of the different post-1956 versions:

Muhammad Asad (1980): beat them  [With a long footnote disputing that interpretation.]

Ahmed Ali (1984): go to bed with them (when they are willing)

Muhammad Muhsin Khan (1985): beat them (lightly, if it is useful)

Rashad Khalifa (1992): then you may (as a last resort) beat them

Taqiud Dun Hilali and Muhsin Khan (1996): beat them (lightly, if it is useful)

Syed Vickar Ahamed (2007): percuss them

Edip Yuksel (2007): separate them

Mohamed K. Jasser (2008): some you may have to get going on their way (sic)

Tarif Khalidi (2008): smack them

Laleh Bakhtiar (2009): go away from them

Maulana Wahiduddin Khan (2009): hit them [lightly]

Nazeer Ahmed (2011): bring them out (before the judicial process)

Obviously, Muslims are touchy about this verse because it implies that Allah authorized violence against half the Muslim population. How can Muslims ever convince others that Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance if this verse is translated literally? Hence, the creative renderings shown above. Nobody will be fooled by this deception – at least for long.

Comments (158)Add Comment
0
mutta marriage is best wam bam thank u ex-wife mam !!! and start it all over again !!!
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON , July 10, 2012
mutta marriage is best wam bam thank u ex-wife mam !!! and start it all over again !!!

arabs practice it in india.it was in many papers but now they dont put these reports as they rcv money.
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About Mut'ah marriage, Sunnis and Shi'ites disagree
written by Yibel , July 10, 2012
In the hadith collection of Tirmizi, Abdullah Ibn Abbas narrates:
Temporary marriage was at the beginning of Islam. A man comes by a town where he has no acquaintances, so he marries for a fixed time depending on his stay in the town, the woman looks after his provisions and prepares his food, until the verse was revealed: 'Except to your wives or what your right hands possess.' ("what your right hand possesses" means slave women.) Q. 4:24
A majority of Sunnis believe that Muhammad later abolished mut'ah marriage at several different large events, the most accepted being at the massacre of Khaybar in 629 CE/7 AH when many Jewish slave women were taken (Bukhari 059.527) or at the Victory of Makkah the following year.
The Shi'a sect believe that Umar ibn al-Khattab abolished mut'ah marriage, but only temporarily; however, since Umar, according to them, had no authority to do so, Umar's prohibition may be ignored (Muslim 2801 1, 2).

And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done). Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Wise. Quran 4:24

Clear as MUD!
0
Mutah and Sunni
written by Infidel and More Proud , July 10, 2012
Sunni have their own version as Misyar. More or less same in purpose
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Islamic Law
written by Gnostic , July 10, 2012
I have heard that if a muslim marries more than one woman, he has to treat them all as equal, right? Therefore, if he beats one of them, he also has to beat all the others in the same way, right?

There is another name for the muslim ummah: WBA or Wife Beating Association!
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Wife Beating
written by balam , July 10, 2012
Why is the wife not allowed to beat unruly husband,separate his bed and sleep with another man?When Mohammad made up that verse,he had 11 wives.It was alright for him as he could send one away to a separate bed as he was lucky to have SEX with another 10.WHY DID HE MARRY 11 WOMEN WHEN ALLAH ALLOWED MAXIMUM ONLY 4 TO MUSLIMS?CAN ANYBODY ENLIGHTEN ME,PLEASE.I AM JUST CONFUSED!!!
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http://supremechristian.blogspot.com/
written by HenriMaurice (Ex-Muslim) , July 11, 2012
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Yawn yawn
written by abc , July 11, 2012
Another deluded Christian on an islamohate site!
Jesus would be proud indeed!
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abc
written by Jye , July 11, 2012
There is nothing hateful on that blog. I looked, did you? Or are you as deluded and ignorant as the people you accuse? Before you make statements that Jesus would be proud of hate, you might want to research Jesus' message. Jesus taught to love your enemies and pray for them. People can find many verses that preach war and intolerance in the Quran, so maybe you would like to find an example of where Jesus preached the same thing? Or maybe you should yawn away to a dictionary and look up the word hypocrite? Hmmm?
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also
written by Jye , July 11, 2012
Do you have anything relevant to say about the subject of this post, or are you going to maintain your stance of Islamovictim?
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Jye
written by abc , July 11, 2012
You must be blind and stupid not to see and realise.
Reading com
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Jye
written by abc , July 11, 2012
You must have the reading comprehension of a child! Jesus must be proud was an ironic remark. Does mummy and daddy know you are playing in this site?
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...
written by vbv , July 11, 2012
Hahahahahahaha! The cartoons reflect the state of muslim minds. Nothing more need be said on this topic. I hope mullahs do not call for the blood of the cartoonist again. Hahahahahahahahahaha!
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abc
written by Jye , July 11, 2012
Neither, but enlighten me. please point out what I am not "seeing".
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abc
written by Jye , July 11, 2012
I'm sorry, I can't take anyone who follows Islam seriously, so your attempts to patronize me are laughable. Irony doesn't work when it is an oxymoron, Please try harder.
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misyar nmarriage is similar to muttah
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON , July 11, 2012


yes i chk'ed misyar is similar to muttah.
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Jye is Blind?
written by Malem , July 11, 2012
No hate in the above? Do you not see the way the protray a Muslim man in the illustration, as a big nosed wild eyed barefoot crazed person? That is pure racism and bigotry at its core as is the article. It translates the Surah wrong and even admits it at the onset of the article. Such illustrations were common in the west when the africans were first imported as slaves...just another islamaphobic article with no merit or value.
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abc
written by Jye , July 11, 2012
Looks like we were on different pages. I was referring to the blog that HenriMaurice (Ex-Muslim) pasted.
Secondly, how is the Sura translated wrong? I have two copies of the Quran, from two different Islamic sites and both have the word "beat" within it. How else would one interpret the word "beat"? And if it is wrong, then why are millions of copies of the Quran translated into English that gives the clear impression that if your wife disobeys her husband, he has the approval of God to beat her?
Furthermore, racism exists everywhere and to accuse only he west of it is arrogant.
If you speak to me, don't bother to attempt to belittle me. I'm not ten and I don't respond to immature, petty insults. If you can't answer just say so. Don't answer a question with a question and please don't use diversion tactics to refrain from answering.
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Dont beat her!!
written by Reed Wilson , July 11, 2012

The meanings of English word scourge are same as you mention. But in 4:34 the Arabic word وَاضْرِب is used. It has following meanings:

•To smack without harshness.
•To discipline.
•To strike lightly.
•To counsel
•To relate story
•To give example.
•A kind advice or a parable.

For example:

•وَاضْرِبْ لَهُم مَّثَلًا أَصْحَابَ الْقَرْيَةِ إِذْ جَاءَهَا الْمُرْسَلُونَ
Tell them the story of the people of the town to whom Messengers came. ((36:13)

•وَاضْرِبْ لَهُم مَّثَلًا رَّجُلَيْنِ جَعَلْنَا لِأَحَدِهِمَا جَنَّتَيْنِ
Tell them the parable of the two men. To one of them We had given two gardens of vines surrounded by the palm trees with a piece of farm land between them (18:32)

•وَضَرَبَ اللَّـهُ مَثَلًا قَرْيَةً
•God tells a parable about a secure and peaceful town…. (16:112)

•وَضَرَبَ اللَّـهُ مَثَلًا رَّجُلَيْنِ أَحَدُهُمَا
•God tells a parable about two men…… (16:76)

•وَاضْرِبْ لَهُم مَّثَلَ الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا
And present to them the example of the life of this world…. (18:45)

•وَضَرَبَ اللَّـهُ مَثَلًا لِّلَّذِينَ آمَنُوا امْرَأَتَ فِرْعَوْن
“And Allah presents an example of those who believed: the wife of Pharaoh.." (66:11)

•إِذَا ضَرَبُوا فِي الْأَرْضِ
“Do not copy those who deny, and say of their brethren….. (3:156)

•نظُرْ كَيْفَ ضَرَبُوا لَكَ الْأَمْثَالَ فَضَلُّوا فَلَا يَسْتَطِيعُونَ سَبِيلًا
See what similes they strike for thee: (17:48)

•انظُرْ كَيْفَ ضَرَبُوا
See what kinds of comparisons they make for thee! (25:9)

•وَلَمَّا ضُرِبَ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ مَثَلًا إِذَا
“When the son of Mary is held up as an example, behold, thy people raise a clamor thereat (in ridicule)! (43:57)

Dont beat her. But if you are out to beat, you dont need scriptural license. Quite many beat their beloved wives without believing in Quran.

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Progressive punishment
written by ChrisLA , July 11, 2012
All of those uses of the root word "daraba" are intersting, but the context of Surah 4:34 is progressive punishment. The woman has already been admonished and forsaken to a bed apart, so which of the uses would be a harsher punishment than those already used? Beating seems to be the next logical step. To confirm the harshness of the Quran's commands regarding women, see also Surah 4:15 which says that women who commit fornication should be confined to their houses "till death overtakes them or till God finds another way for them." Hardly a parable.
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jye
written by malem , July 11, 2012
Ok so your not ten your eleven, at least in maturity. The article along with the picture is meant to portray arabs as animals (not not all arabs are muslims). Second the word that is used, as Reed pointed out, does not neccesiraly translate to Beat. I know you want it to say that so you can hang your hat on some follish argument, but you can't. Point, score Match , I win.
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Malem
written by abc , July 11, 2012
Forget the language usage that is above his paygrade.
It's the articles that wants to paint the Muslims as "the other".
That picture shows you exactly their intention. Yet they cannot produce any evidence or stats to show!
Once you can paint them as other then it's easy to demonise them.
I mean you only have to look at the way Europe turned on the Jews!
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abc and malem
written by Jye , July 11, 2012
Abc, thank you for not disappointing. I knew you wouldn't answer my question. Instead your argument was to cry victim and compare yourselves to the Jews of WW2? Arrogant, but fairly telling, if not just outright pathetic. Islam needs to start cleaning up its house on a grand scale before any of its members have the audacity to start calling themselves victims. I don't recall the Jews of Europe plotting terrorist attacks and blowing themselves, and many innocent people, up, do you?
Also, I didn't ask what "beat" translated in Arabic, I asked why it is written in millions of English translated Qurans, if it means something else. There's no confusing "beat" in English, unless it means beat as in rhythm, and we all know it doesn't. Seems someone who accuses others of poor comprehension is pretty hypocritical. Hmmm?
Malem, if you're going to attack my maturity make sure you use correct grammar, and since my question remains unanswered, proclaiming yourself the winner is pretty laughable. But if it makes you feel better, sure, why not.
I'll wait for a little bit longer and see if you guys can answer why Muslim scholars, that have translated your holy books into our language, want English speaking people to think wife beating is sanctioned. Also, why they want us to believe Mohammed married a 6 year old, and why he murdered, raped and pillaged his way through Arabia. It's ALL in the English translated versions, of the Quran and Hadiths for anyone to see. I also suppose it's all coincidence that a vast number of Muslims follow the English translated texts of violence, intolerance and war instead of the apparent "peaceful" Arabic versions. Even stranger is when they read from their books, it's IN Arabic. Interesting, huh?
0
jye
written by malem , July 12, 2012
Stop being lazy, learn quran arabic and then you will see clearly. Until keep drawing your pitures like above to try and paint all arabs or muslims as animals, as ABC pointed to rightly the same crap was done to the jews in europe and ill add the blacks in the west. When you don't understand something just demonize it, ya that will work hahah
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Jye
written by abc , July 12, 2012
Don't make me laugh! Reed answered the question right below your post. Have a read and see how many ways the Arabic word translates into english.
But your response says alot about you! Ignore what's infront of you to try and score a point. The pattern is clear maybe not to potential perps!
What is interesting that there is massive body of work explaining to people!
But you just want to make shit up as you go along!
That's just poor scholarship on your part.
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Abc
written by pipo , July 12, 2012
"it's the articles that wants to paint the Muslims as "the other""


The "We vs Them thinking" is premiered in the qu'ran... it's apartheid in the making.
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , July 12, 2012
Those who are beating their wives do not recite 3/54 before beating. Muslims do not read Quran.
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Reed?
written by malem , July 12, 2012
Muslims do not read the Quran? Maybe in your little world, but here they all do
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Pipo
written by abc , July 12, 2012
Really
So are you a goem or infidel???
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Abc
written by pipo , July 12, 2012
Jye's question still stands!

My questions;


Why does Allah use a word which has seven possible meanings? Does he like to be ambiguous and unclear?

How does Reed know all the right translations of this one word in different verses?

Then why would we doubt it's true meaning if most scholars/translators prefer to translate it as 'beat'?
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Pipo
written by abc , July 12, 2012
No it doesn't mr Islam expert!
For the understands of the language fus'a arabic then it's not.
Are you a literalist???
Reed is just repeating what the scholars have written.
Reed has also pointed out the different meanings of that verb.
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OT …. Good news among all that bad news coming from Syria
written by fineliving56 , July 12, 2012
We just got news of the release of my husband nephew today after tense and hard 2 days negotiations to have him, let go and same time try to cut down the ransom money … he was ruffed up but was not badly beaten or raped.

To our unexpected surprise, the pathetic kidnappers were in so much need and desperation state for funds, that they agreed on only 150,000 Lira .. which is only 3 thousand dollars after they asked for 10, also they took the truck he was driving.

It feels good when humanity can show it self in hearts, where it has rarely have been seen .
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on this junk.
written by lol , July 12, 2012
ok people. quit arguing and junk, the word beat means to hit. so no matter what translation yall wana use it still means to put ur hands on them. so IN fact the quran or w/e the heck it is, is in fact! telling them its OK to hit their wives.
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another thing.
written by lol , July 12, 2012
i think all who are trying to make the islam holy book in a good light. mine as well to live other their and see how nice they are at stoning people to death in the street and beheading people. i mean realy ppl comon.they say its a religion of peace. yet from what iv been reading today on the stubject it seems that infact it encourges war and hate. if u want a religion of peace. be a buddist monk or some crap.
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...
written by Truthseeker , July 12, 2012
If "beat" here doesnt mean what people think it means then why does every translation in the world call it just that?
It is simply such a joke to say that "beat" here signifies a light slap or telling a story. A....ahem.... "rebellious" woman would just laugh in her husband's face.

Sorry guys, Malem, its good that you dont believe in wife beating. As a woman I can sure appreciate that. But you are blinded. To beat a wife in the Koran means just that. To beat her hard like a disobedient dog.
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truthseeker.
written by lol , July 12, 2012
thank you. it seems people would rather argue the meaning of a word they KNOW what means. more inportant than the fact that the Koran is indeed telling them its OK. quit sugur coating it and see it for what it is.
0
...
written by Truthseeker , July 12, 2012
You know that site has a lot of porn links, just letting you all know
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truthseeker
written by lol , July 12, 2012
yes it does. but this is not Fap time. its view the truth on middle east time :p
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Reed Wilson
written by fineliving56 , July 12, 2012
First I like to welcome you back … Despite our total disagreement on Quran and Islam, Your always maintained a gentlemanly level of discussion other Muslims have failed at that .. ? …

Too bad you maintained the same excuses about the word " beat" in Quran that I have refuted in finality before … with all proves and logic

Reed, you still do not know Arabic and it looks like you will never will … it is BECAUSE you do not know Arabic and it complexity … you give such utter mistaken meanings to The word Beat …

Now … try to think of what I am saying …

The problem ,Reed [ your problem especially ] is that you do not differentiate between meanings of *single Arabic words* and * compounded Arabic words * … THERE IS HUGE DIFFERENCE !!!!

You know and I know there a huge difference between the two in every language … you choose to ignore that, to convince others and be convinced … and you are so wrong …

let us examine and dissect the word '' idrubohunnah ''

The word I - DRUBO- HUNNAH which came by it self … *ALONE * with no word before it or after it to make it compounded …. means >>>>> order to [usually a man]to BEAT a WOMEN … or STRIK or HIT

It comes from root word ''Darb'' .. BEAT

The letter " I '' before the D … in Arabic .. makes the word " Darb '' as an order to do " beating '' … then - drubo - is the actuls word .. and then hunnah is ,there, to refer to '' many females ''

So … idrobohunnah is ONLY referred to and to mean ...'' an order to many women to be beaten … absolutely nothing else .

It is the way it came in Quran like I explained … makes it, absolutely means nothing but { an order to beat women }

Now have you got, that ?

Let skim over the Arabic compouded words that you brought and they had the word '' darb '' … but because they compounded they CHANGE THE MEANINGS as you CAN READ in 4/34 the word beat came alone …CAME ALONE !!! … means, not compounded like you tried to say in your post

So far so good ?

To be continue
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Reed Wilson
written by fineliving56 , July 12, 2012
You brought example from Quran, of how the word "Darab " comes in different meanings like '' to give an example "' and others …

* What you wrote PROOFS , to me, your ignorance in the Arabic language … which is nothing wrong with that … it just … PLEASE…. do not come here and try to lump all Arabic words together and try to pass meanings that are ….WRONG

As you can read in your own examples from Quran like 36/13 …and 16/76

****For the word "' Darab '" , to mean '' give examle " .. * it has to be fallowed by the word "' Mathalan " or after a subject in between Daraba and Mathalan ***

Like in 16 /76 "' Daraba Allah Mathalan "' means '' Allah gives an example ..

go Reed …. and check it your self again you WILL find your mistakes …

"Daraba Mathalan " "to give example " like in 16/76 … it WILL NEVER mean " Daraba" "Beat " .. or Idrobuhunnah ''…Like it CAME IN Q 4/34

BTW … your translation is wrong for Quran Ayas you brought … But I am not going to go in such long discution … will leave it for now .

BTW 2 …. you added the word lightly after the word beat when you listed the meanings for The word "beat " in Quran … IT IS NOT THERE !!!
Lightly … is NO WHERE TO BE FOUND NEAR THE WORD " BEAT " .in 4/34 …. how many times we are going to go through this !!!?? … it is not even implied !!!

Beat '' Idrobuhunnah … is alone and lonely …. in 4/34 …

I challenge you Reed to find the word "' lightly " in tat Aya … it has been added to lessen the blunt effect this hated and cruel … cruel word in Quran .

I know it hurts Reed …. how Your Allah did not have the care for the women to protect them from the already brutal man's world … but .. you have to deal with it … like we women had to still do … Deal with it.

I hope you got it … this time around !


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fineliving
written by malem , July 12, 2012
You are wrong it can also mean condemn as used in the quran,
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Malam … NO YOU ARE WRONG !
written by fineliving56 , July 12, 2012
And you know it … but if you did not know it …Let me tell you for your future references …

BEAT …. is absolutely DOES NOT MEAN ** CONDEMN **

Condemn … is …. Hakama Ala [ sentenced ] .. or … Adana [ to charge someone ] …or …Shagaba [ expressing sever disapproval ] …… thats means it is NOT * physical * is verbal … and beat IS PHYSICAL

Beat … is …. Daraba [ to strike violently ] …to hurt [ Yu'zi … to use a tool or a hand to beat physically …

Do not mix words to try to lessen the impact of that hurtful word in Quran that it never should have been is such a book … and the fact that it is there and Husbands understand it and fallow it , makes it dangerous to women …

Again … Idrobuhunnah … is NOT condemnation *** it is an order for Muslim man to Beat their women when they disobey as a last resort, after the Muslim man try to condemn her by having a stern talk with her and after he for forsake her bed … as 4/34 says
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abc
written by Jye , July 12, 2012
Sorry, abc, you need to reread my question. I did not ask how many different ways beat can translate to English from Arabic, I asked why it has ONLY been translated to the English word "beat" when there's no confusion as to what it means - in the English language.
As I have already stated. Either millions of copies of English translated Qurans are wrong, giving us readers the impression that a Muslim man is allowed to beat his wife, or you're a liar and it actually does intend for a Muslim to beat his wife. So, which is it?
Please answer correctly this time. The question is clear.
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ts just a cartoon
written by dead or alive , July 12, 2012
And it makes people smile and lol.What is wrong with making people happy in this world,Muslims?
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fineliving
written by Rationalist , July 12, 2012
Reed, Malem, and abc are subcontinent Muslims, whose forefathers were forced to accept Islam. If they care to read Mughal, Tughlaq, and other dynasty court chronicles they will realize the horrors faced by their ancestors. Even now nobody in the subcontinent speaks Arabic. Why? Those continents/regions that opposed Islam at the beginning of onslaught (Jihad) never accepted Arabic. As a result, countries like India, Pakistan, Iran, Turkey, and Bangladesh continued to speak native languages. Many Pakistanis and Indian Muslims sport typical Hindu surnames, though they try to trace their ancestry to Persia, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Mongolia.

Reed might play Al-taqiyya at his best. However, modern world, through internet, has advanced so much that it realizes the blunt nature of Islam. Fineliving, you should continue to expose the likes of Malem and Reed. I must say Islam has ruined Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Bangladesh.
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typical decietful interpretation
written by abc , July 12, 2012
Just like a typical islamophobe she takes the verse in isolation not only that but takes a single verb in isolation. It is quite amusing to see the explanation. That is why the the really silly should not try to make stuff up as they go along.
There are 3 parts to that verse to understand it correctly and in context.
a. The meaning of the term qawwamuna
b. The meaning of the term nushuz
c. Adribu (Arabic root – daraba)

Here is the correct tafseer on the verse

http://islamsearch.blogspot.co.uk/2007/01/tafseer-surah-434-does-islam-really.html
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fineliving lies
written by abc , July 12, 2012
The correct meaning of the verse and not in isolation.

http://islamsearch.blogspot.co.uk/2007/01/tafseer-surah-434-does-islam-really.html

The discussion is way to long to type through. Besides admin has taken 3 of my responses thus far.
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more proof
written by abc , July 12, 2012
http://www.islamicperspectives.com/Quran-4-34.htm

infact even wikipedia disagrees with fine living and her analysis.

"Reed, you still do not know Arabic and it looks like you will never will … it is BECAUSE you do not know Arabic and it complexity "
That is funny coming from you given the rules of the arabic language are derived from the quran.

"What you wrote PROOFS , to me, your ignorance in the Arabic language … which is nothing wrong with that … it just … PLEASE"
No his exaples are absolutely valid as the quran is the gold standard of arabic. You perception of the rules is incorrect.
Says alot about the syrian educations system really.

"Lightly … is NO WHERE TO BE FOUND NEAR THE WORD " BEAT " .in 4/34 …. how many times we are going to go through this !!!?? … it is not even implied"
Oh dear it is. If you bothered to look at the entire verse and not just one evrb then you may understand. What do the words qwwamunna and nushuz mean??? You undertand that then the verse opens up.
Who taught you? sam shamoun!!

"I know it hurts Reed …. how Your Allah did not have the care for the women to protect them from the already brutal man's world … but .. you have to deal with it … like we women had to still do … Deal with it"
Cue the violin music. How about this given the above, i know it hurts that you have left islam because of poor scholarship and the consequences you will have to deal with



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Back to reality
written by abc , July 12, 2012
If Finelivings very poor interpretation was correct then you would see evidence. I mean surely the cases of domestic abuse in the Muslim community must be off the scale. I mean according to fine living its a religious edict.

What do we see in reality? The stats are no different from any other community in direct proportion!
0
abc
written by Rationalist , July 12, 2012
abc, I feel sorry for ur ancestors
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Fact:
written by Jye , July 12, 2012
Within the English translated Quran, it explicitly states that a man is allowed to beat his wife. It makes no difference what the word derived from in Arabic. Beat is beat in English. So either two things have happened. Those scholars, that translated millions of copies of Qurans, knowingly used the English word "beat" with the full intention of it reading how an English person would understand it as (domestic violence), or every Islamic scholar that has translated the Quran into English ALL translated the wrong word.
Wow, collective ineptness or more deception?
0
...
written by vbv , July 12, 2012
Strange, abc claims that the arabic language is derived from quran. How were the pre-islamic arabs communicating ? Usling sign language, heh? No wonder the muslims are so dumb. They find everything in those 6600 'ayats' of the quran that it is too much of a strain on their underdeveloped brains to go beyond it. That is why mullahs over centuries burnt books of other languages , philosophy, literature, science that they could not plagiarize and so on. The destruction of Taxila university and Nalanda university in India by muslim invaders is well known. And islam is supposed to be a religion of 'peace' and is supposed to give solutions to all the problems of humanity when these a*****es cannot solve any of their own problems and they cut each others' throats to prove whose is following a more 'pure' form of islam, not to speak of sectarian violence against deobandis, barreilivis, ahmedias, shias, etc. One has to accept one thing about islam and muslims : they are the greatest liars , deceivers and obfuscators ever in history.
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abc
written by Jye , July 12, 2012
Reed did not answer my question. Read it again. I am asking why English translated Qur'ans state quite clearly, that a man can beat his wife. There is no confusion with the word beat. It means exactly that. So, telling me what various meanings an Arabic word has is irrelevant. It has been translated INTO ENGLISH as BEAT.
Who wanted us to intentionally think Islam is a religion of misogyny? Or were all those scholars actually translating it correctly.
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rationalist
written by malem , July 12, 2012
You have no proof that any forefathers were forced into Islam, and in fact some of the people you name their forefathers were other religions. So if your going to make up crap at least do a good job.

As for the interpretation, it has always been communicated as condemn and scorge during my time from a small child to today. Fineliving as usual is on the sympathy train trying to blame her own woes on Islam versus the individual who is responsible.
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Rationalist
written by Abc , July 12, 2012
Fortunately i don't share your view.
I'm sure they did the best they could. I'm not going to judge them.
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abc
written by Jye , July 12, 2012
ALL of them translated it wrong? Is that what you're trying to say? That's a huge ask.
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Jye
written by Abc , July 12, 2012
If that's the closest word in the English language!
That's a limitation unfortunate!
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abc
written by Jye , July 12, 2012
I'm sorry, it's hard to believe that there ISN'T a word in the English language other than one that translates to violence. If the correct translation is "counsel" or thereabouts, and NOT beat, then there's scores of words that could fit BEFORE using the word beat.
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Jye
written by Abc , July 12, 2012
Since its Ramadan next week I will make it relavent!

"O you who believe! Fasting is prescribed for you as it was prescribed for those before you, that you may become Al-Muttaqun (the pious)." [Soorah al-Baqarah (2):183]

It's almost impossible to use a single word in the English language to describe al muttaqun! Pious loosely resembles it so you use it!
Ask anybody muttaqun dies not mean pious strictly speaking, it's much more than that!
0
abc
written by Jye , July 12, 2012
I don't view these two as similar. Beat does not loosely resemble or is similar to an action of non violence. I'm sure your intentions are honorable, but I can only judge what I see for myself. I ordered two Qurans from two separate Islamic online sites a few years ago. Both are practically identical, and both contain multiple verses of violence. Because you believe they are wrong, doesn't make them wrong. I can't accept that all the violent texts that I have read regarding non-believers is a mistake. That defies logic.

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Jye
written by Abc , July 12, 2012
All I got told regarding that verse is that you have to look at what Qawwamuna, Nashuz then in context look at daraba!

read the below article and that should answer your question!

http://islamsearch.blogspot.co.uk/2007/01/tafseer-surah-434-does-islam-really.html?m=1
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To Gnostic, Abc
written by Archpagan , July 12, 2012
@ Gnostic
I am sure; you are an Auditor by profession.

@ Abc
So, Koran being unintelligible to a non-Arabic speaking person, Islam is not suitable for them. It is absolutely wrong for a non-Arab to accept Islam. Am I correct?
0
To Gnostic, Abc
written by Archpagan , July 12, 2012
@ Gnostic
I am sure; you are an Auditor by profession.

@ Abc
So, Koran being unintelligible to a non-Arabic speaking person, Islam is not suitable for them. It is absolutely wrong for a non-Arab to accept Islam. Am I correct?
0
Archpagan
written by Abc , July 12, 2012
No you are not correct
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , July 12, 2012
Rationalist. You say "Reed might play Al-taqiyya at his best"

No he will never. He cannot. Quran has haramofied taqyya. Alllah says:

ا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّـهَ وَقُولُوا قَوْلًا سَدِيدًا ﴿٧٠﴾ يُصْلِحْ لَكُمْ أَعْمَالَكُمْ وَيَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ ذُنُوبَكُمْ ۗ وَمَن يُطِعِ اللَّـهَ وَرَسُولَهُ فَقَدْ فَازَ فَوْزًا عَظِيمًا

" O you who have attained to faith! Remain conscious of God, and always speak with a will to bring out only what is just and true - whereupon He will cause your deeds to be virtuous, and will forgive you your sins. And [know that] whoever pays heed unto God and His Apostle has already attained to a mighty triumph". (33:70-71).

also he personally abhors Taqayya.
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , July 12, 2012
Rationalist. Asad has translated Arabic word وَرَسُولَهُ as 'his apostle' I would translate it as 'his message'. It is not mistake. Word Rasool is used for both message and messenger.

Asad is a Jew. I like his translation.
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Reed
written by Truthseeker , July 13, 2012
I forgot to say Welcome back, myself, as others had. Though as a Christian I have obviously to disagree with you on the nature of the Koran I think you are a good man and are far more mature and gentlemanly in your responses than other Muslims here have been.
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Rationalist
written by fineliving56 , July 13, 2012
Believe me … there is nothing I dislike more then lying and hypocrisy … it just chip away at my patience to no end ….

Abc … is a third generation english born non Arab Muslim young pop who deep down is not bad and he is a little naive … he has a heart and likes to hide it to protect him self by showing provado and mud slinging …

He thinks he going to come here and teach me Arabic language … not just that … Quran Quraishy Arabic …amusing and cute …. lol

He said, I make up things as I go alone ..… but, he brings prooves from Wikipedia, where is hardly a place to bring truthful information from … Wiki is a place where they tell you right on top { feel free to correct and add to the information others added .} ??!!

On the other hand, I got my information from lifetime of Arabic schooling and actually lived AND STILL LIVING THE MUSLIM LIFE THAT HE IS WRITING ABOUT AND HEARD OF … LOL

Reading just the last posts himself and Reed posted I caught so many Arabic mistakes … that, and I do not have to need to verify from anywhere … anyone who knows arabic, will pick up, the mistakes him and Reed are posting … WoW

Like when Abc … listed the 3 parts to 4/34 to understand it in context and as he calls it …

# 3 … Arabic word .. Idribu .. Arabic root word is Daraba … that is WRONG

The root word for Idribu [ male order to beat ] is *DARB* … not Daraba like he Abc said [ it shows his ignorance in the language .. he cannot differentiate between tenses of verbs in Arabic ] …

Daraba is past tense single for male … it is not root word for Idrubo

Darabat is past tense single for females …

Darabu for past tense plural ..

Darabuhom [to beat many males ] plural bast tense …

darabuhunnah [to beat many females ] plural past tense ….

The word change spelling when tense is changed to order or present tense … I could on but it is too long …

He just wishes that there is no one here who could correct his mistakes in Arabic so he achieves his goal by putting a nice suit on Islam to hid the ugliness.

I do not blame him …. but we are here not to beautify anything, we are here to expose the ugly truth of Islam that has been hidden under the blanket of lies and hypocrisy for long time …. no more

I will watch out for all his posts and I will correct any attempt to change the truth and wording of language of Quran .

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Fineliving
written by Abc , July 13, 2012
Hey you can critisize my verb conjugations. That's ok!
If that's the only criticism then I will take that!
Any news on qwammuna and nushuz???
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Malem, abc et al
written by Rationalist , July 13, 2012
Malem, abc and other Muslims,

Denial without a valid reason is an excuse. Read M.A. Khan's book "Islamic Jihad- a legacy of forced conversion, imperialism, and slavery" with an open mind. He has described at length how your forefathers were forced/coaxed to accept Islam. Your forefathers were Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Sikhs, Pharsees, and Jains. He has provided valid references. Let us see how many of you can refute it.
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To Reed Wilson, Abc
written by Archpagan , July 13, 2012
Meaning of the word "iḍribūhunna" should be translated as 'corporal punishment' by applying the rule of harmonious construction for interpretation/translation. You are intellectually dishonest to the core, that's why you are obfuscating the matter. It is nobody's case that only Muslims beat their wife. But, divine sanction for wife beating is found under Islam only. Islam is under scrutiny here, not Muslims per se.
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