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Islam: ‘50 Shades of Black and Blue’ For Muslim Women

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Last summer a rather kinky novel, named “50 Shades of Grey” was released, which is about a businessman, named Christian Grey, and his sadism/bondage obsession. His target was Anastasia Steele, who was required to sign a contract consenting to allowing Grey have complete control over her life, including fulfilling any of his sexual desires and fantasies.  The book has been on the New York Times’ best seller list for 32 weeks, and it is the U.K.’s best- selling novel ever. Apparently, some women like to escape into a sadistic and masochistic imaginary world.

It is, however, unlikely that the book will appeal to Muslim women. They get enough of that in the real world – not "grey", but rather "black and blue". Their "contract" was a marriage to someone they didn't know, unless he happened to be a cousin, which was sealed with an exchange of money between her male "guardian" and the groom per Sharia Law. It gets worse.

Islamic ideology supporting domestic violence against women

The Quran and Sharia Law provide the “boundaries” for marital sex and violence:

  • “Women are your fields; go, then, into your fields whence you please.” (Surah 2:223)
  • It is obligatory for a woman to let her husband have sex with her immediately when a) he asks her, b) at home, c) she can physically endure it, and d) the husband has paid the marriage price. (Reliance of the Traveler, para. m5.1)
  • A husband possesses full right to enjoy his wife’s person in what does not physically harm her. (R of T, para. m5.4)
  • The husband is entitled to insist that his wife undertake both the measures necessary for having sex (like bathing) and those necessary to the full enjoyment of her (like shaving her private parts). (R of T, para. m5.6)
  • Apart from providing her husband full lawful sexual enjoyment, if the wife cooks food or washes clothes for him, that is merely considered a “voluntary charity.” (R of T, para. m10.12(3))

A wife is in rebellion if she fails any of these obligations, and the sanction is first a warning, then banishment from the marital bed, and finally beating. This applies to daughters, as well. The Quran and Sharia Law are quite specific:

  • “As for those [women] from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them.”  (Surah 4:35)
  • “If she commits rebelliousness, he . . . may hit her, but not in a way that injures her, meaning he may not break bones, wound her, or cause blood to flow.” (R of T, para. m10.12)
  • "Umar reported the Prophet as saying: ‘A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife.’" (Hadith of the Sunan of Abu Dawud, Chapter 709 - On Beating Women, #2142)
  • There is no retaliation for a father or mother for killing their offspring or their offspring’s offspring. (R of T, para. o1.2(4))
  • There is no indemnity for killing someone who has left Islam. (R of T, para. o4.17)

Violence against Women is a Crime

In most Western countries, wife-beating and sexual battery are against the law. Usually, the legal provisions are very specific and quite comprehensive. The California Civil Code, Section 1708, states:

Every person is bound, without contract, to abstain from injuring the person or property of another, or infringing upon any of his or her rights. A person commits a sexual battery who does any of the following: Acts with the intent to cause a harmful or offensive contact with an intimate part of another, and a sexually offensive contact with that person directly or indirectly results. For the purposes of this section "intimate part" means the sexual organ, anus, groin, or buttocks of any person, or the breast of a female. A person who commits a sexual battery upon another is liable to that person for criminal penalties as well as financial damages, including, but not limited to, general damages, special damages, and punitive damages.

Domestic violence includes injury, abuse, and offensive conduct and any credible threat to commit such acts. Injury or abuse includes a pattern of conduct by the abuser whereby the plaintiff reasonably feared for his or her safety, or the safety of an immediate family member. An immediate family means a spouse, parent, child, any person related by consanguinity or affinity within the second degree, or any person who regularly resides, or, within the six months preceding any portion of the pattern of conduct, regularly resided, in the plaintiff's household. Offensive contact means contact that offends a reasonable sense of personal dignity. A credible threat means a verbal or written threat, including that communicated by means of an electronic communication device, or a threat implied by a pattern of conduct or a combination of verbal, written, or electronically communicated statements and conduct, made with the intent and apparent ability to carry out the threat so as to cause the person who is the target of the threat to reasonably fear for his or her safety or the safety of his or her immediate family.

The criminal sanctions in California for domestic violence are outlined in the table below:

Misdemeanor (no injury involved)

  • 52 week domestic violence counseling
  • 40 hours community service
  • No contact order with victim
  • Monetary fines determined by judge
  • Up to 6 months in jail

Felony (violence includes injury)

  • 52 week domestic violence counseling
  • 40 hours community service
  • No contact order with victim
  • Monetary fines determined by judge
  • 3 months to 3 years in
  • \\ase Study: Muslim-on-Muslim Domestic Violence in the U.S.

Set forth below are a number of case studies of domestic violence in the United States presumed or known to be perpetrated by Muslims against Muslims. What is common in all of the cases is that the alleged perpetrators have been protected by the Muslim community and have not been charged or punished for the crimes.

amina-sarah-said-honor-killing-islam
Amina and Sarah Said

Name: Amina and Sarah Said

Age: 18 and 17

Location and Date of crime: Irving, TX, January 1, 2008

Suspected perpetrator: Yaser Said, their father

Reason for the violence: Shamed their father by adopting Western clothes and attitudes

Injuries sustained: The sisters had been brutally murdered. Amina had been shot twice, and autopsy reports revealed that she died almost instantly from a shattered spinal cord. Sarah had been shot nine times, and her death had been slow and painful. Still, Sarah managed to place a 911 call to police an hour before she died. She told a police dispatcher that she had been shot and that the perpetrator had been none other than her own father.

Disposition: Murderer is still at large

fatima-abdallah islam honor killing usa

Name: Fatima Abdallah

Age: 48

Location and Date of crime: Tampa, FL, August 16, 2009

Suspected perpetrator: One or more family members

Reason for the violence: Shamed family by having no children after marriages to two cousins

Injuries sustained: First responder Paramedic Lt. Scott Ashley with Tampa Rescue #21 stated that ‘someone had beat the crap out of her.’ She had been dead for several hours by the time he arrived. Her face was cut and bleeding from her head being smashed into a coffee table repeatedly... The left cheek was swollen and there was a 1.5 x 1.5 centimeter red abrasion that formed an “L” – possibly the impression made by being hit by someone wearing a ring. On her right side, ribs 4 and 5 were fractured, and in the posterior, ribs 5 – 9 were fractured. The intercostal muscles showed signs of hemorrhage in the area of these broken ribs, consistent with blunt force trauma.

Disposition: Due to the insistence of the family member witnesses and intimidation of investigators, the autopsy report ruled the death to be a self-inflicted accident.

 

sahaima-alawadi
Shaima Alawadi

Name: Shaima Alawadi

Age: 32

Location and Date of crime: El Cajon, CA, March 21, 2012

Suspected perpetrator: Kassim Alhimidi, her husband who had been unemployed for 18 years due to kidney failure.

Reason for the violence: Shaima, a mother of five, had just filed for divorce and planned to move out.

Injuries sustained: Her assailant shattered Shaima Alawadi’s skull with a tire-iron-like weapon in the living room of her home. The autopsy noted that the assault was “extremely violent” and showed that Alawadi had suffered at least six hits to the head, with at least four skull fractures. She was taken off of life support on March 24.

Disposition:  Police have not completed their investigations after 6 months

 

woman-terrorized

Name: S.D (name withheld in court records)

Age: 17

Location and Date of crime: Bayonne, NJ, from November 1, 2008, through January 24, 2009, when victim was granted a divorce

Suspected perpetrator: M.J.R. (name withheld in court records)

Reason for the violence: Sharia Law permits sex on demand and complete control of wife

Injuries sustained: (The following litany of physical abuse is from court records, viewable at http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/mcs/case_law/sd_v_mjr.pdf .)  S.D., age 17, was married in Morocco in an arranged marriage on July 31, 2008, to M.J.R., a man she did not know. In August, they moved to New Jersey where M.J.R. has employment.  After being unable to prepare a meal for her husband and six invited guests on November 1, M.J.R. began pinching S.D. deeply with his fingers on her breasts, under her arms, and around her thighs, leaving bruises severe enough to be photographed by the police three weeks later. This abuse continued for approximately one hour.

A similar incident guest meal incident occurred on November 16. This time M.J.R. forced his wife to remove her clothes, pinching her breasts and grabbing her pubic hair.  He told her, “You must do whatever I tell you to do. I want to hurt your flesh, I want to feel and know that you’re still my wife.” After that he forcibly raped her, even though her vagina very, very swollen and she was in pain.

On November 22, S.D. locked herself in the bedroom after another dispute, and M.J.R removed the latch from the door and engaged in non-consensual sex. Although she was crying, her mother-in-law and sister-in-law in the next room did not come to her assistance. When S.D. tried to escape from the apartment, M.J.R assaulted her by repeatedly slapping her face causing her lip to swell and bleed. She finally escaped through a broken window without shoes or proper clothing for the below-freezing temperatures and was rescued by a Pakistani woman who took her to the police. She found refuge with a Moroccan nurse from Christ Hospital. On December 22, S.D. learned she was pregnant.

On January 15, a reconciliation meeting was arranged involving the local mosque imam, the nurse, and the young couple. It was concluded with M.J.R. promising to stop mistreating and cursing his wife. The couple shared the same apartment that night, whereupon M.J.R. engaged in non-consensual sex three times and additionally in the following days. M.J.R. told his wife, “This is according to our religion. You are my wife. I can do anything to you. The woman, she should submit and do anything I ask her to do.” S.D. was imprisoned in the apartment and deprived of food or use of a telephone.  Finally, on January 24, the imam granted a divorce, but the divorce could not be effective until the child was delivered – some eight months in the future.

Disposition: S.D. filed a civil complaint charge of marital rape (sexual battery) and obtained a temporary restraining order on January 25, 2009. The same complaints were filed in Superior Court on January 29. The defendant did not testify in the subsequent trial, but both his mother and the Imam testified in his defense. While the fact that marital rape and the other acts of domestic abuse documented in the complaint were against the law was not in dispute, the case hinged on whether the defendant acted with “criminal intent” – a necessary element for conviction. The judge ruled, “The court believes that [M.J.R.] was operating under his [religious] belief that it is, as the husband, his desire to have sex when and whether he wanted to, was something that was consistent with his practices and it was something that was not prohibited.” The judge found that the defendant did not act with a criminal intent when he repeatedly insisted upon intercourse, despite plaintiff’s contrary wishes. The judge also ruled that a final restraining order would not be necessary, as the couple had separated. (While he did acknowledge that there would have to be further litigation over custody of the baby and child support, the judge did not see that as a possible cause for further threats or violence.)

The court’s decision was appealed to the Superior Court of New Jersey, and on July 23, 2010, the court reversed the lower court’s decision. (Considering that probably only 1 in 100 court decisions are appealed, this one case may represent hundreds of domestic violence cases that are ruled in favor of the violent husband behaving according to Sharia Law.) The Superior Court found that the First Amendment’s guaranty of religious freedom was not intended to preclude compliance with statutes under State or Federal law. Quoting from Supreme Court decisions, “Laws are made for the government of actions, and while they cannot interfere with mere religious belief or opinions, they may with practices.. [Otherwise, it would] make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself.  Government would exist only in name under such circumstances… Ignorance of a fact may sometimes be taken as evidence of a want of criminal intent, but not ignorance of the law… It matters not that his belief was part of his professed religion; it was still a belief, and a belief only. [The First Amendment] embraces two concepts, -- freedom to believe and freedom to act. The first is absolute but, in the nature of things, the second cannot be. Conduct remains subject to regulation for the protection of society.”

S.D. was finally granted a restraining order long after her baby was born, but as far as could be determined, M.J.R. was never charged with sexual battery.

Comments (86)Add Comment
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Lois
written by abc , October 16, 2012
Maybe you should get your head out of where the sun don't shine and focus on this for a second:

http://preventconnect.org/2012/01/rape-more-common-than-smoking-in-the-us/

Rape in the US is almost as common as smoking.
0
...
written by Jye , October 16, 2012
It's reported in the US because - it's a crime. Rape in the Muslim community on the other hand...
Abc, it's not us who live in La La land. Sura 4:34 - Beat IS NOT a term of endearment. Well, to the civilized it isn't.
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poor innocent girl
written by continuum , October 16, 2012
This is very very painful to read, especially about the 17 year old kid being treated in this manner. She is so innocent and has not even started to enjoy her life yet and it is already half-destroyed.....of all the places in NJ, how on Earth di dthey decide this is NOT sexual battery..what if it is his religious belief? islamic men in general are animals..
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Louis
written by abc , October 16, 2012
Remember the next time you are sucking on your Marlborough what is happening at the same time in the land of the free n home of the brave!
0
...
written by vbv , October 16, 2012
Rape and any kind of molestation against women and children are viewed as a serious crime in all civilised world ,except muslim countries/societies. That is why it is not reported. There is no justice system in a muslim country or islamic society that will allow prosecution on the male perpetrator. Other the other hand it will demand that absurd sharia bullshit of 4 male witness to this act( which is impossible in such a male chauvinistic , women-hating society/religion).That is why no rape or molestation is reported , unless the affected party has some political or financial clout, in all muslim countries. And any rape of nonmuslim women by a muslim is not even considered a rape. That is the low life that islam allows, a barbaric existence sans morals and conscience.
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Louis
written by Malem , October 16, 2012
The article points to a growing trend in the west of violence against women. It is something that should be aggressively pursued to the furthest extent of the law. I believe as well that no religious belief should afford anyone the right to abuse or hurt anyone, especially a woman. However why not look at the Statistics. 60-65% of the Native Indian women in the West are abused, Homeless women - 50%, breaking into religions Muslims - 10%, Jewish -25% and Christians 38%. Not to mention race - African American with the highest and next in line Caucasian, lowest being Asian americans. So now being that Christians make up the largest population in the west at 78%, and being 38% of Christian households have incidents of REPORTED abuse (lots are hidden by the victims and the police) seems you missed that point in your article. Try calling the NRCDV they will provide you with the real stats versus reading some foolish fiction and extrapolating your own prejudice against Islam
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...
written by Jimi , October 16, 2012
Allah Akbar. The Quran and Hadith are clear on this. These women are ungrateful and should be killed after Friday prayers
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@ abc
written by This is Rami Rustom , October 16, 2012
> http://preventconnect.org/2012...in-the-us/
>
> Rape in the US is almost as common as smoking.

abc, rape in the US is often not rape. Sometimes a women gets drunk (her decision), wants sex (her decision), then decides afterwards that she didn't want it (her decision). And often these situations lead to the guy being convicted of rape. Its a grave mistake against men. Its sexist against men.

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@ anyone who wants to know my position on rape
written by This is Rami Rustom , October 16, 2012
To be clear on my position on rape, see my criticism of an article titled _Women 'to blame' for being raped_:

http://ramirustom.blogspot.com/2012/10/criticism-of-article-women-to-blame-for.html
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@rami
written by Malem , October 16, 2012
>abc, rape in the US is often not rape. Sometimes a women gets drunk (her decision), wants sex (her decision), then decides afterwards that she didn't want it (her decision). And often these situations lead to the guy being convicted of rape. Its a grave mistake against men. Its sexist against men.

Are you kidding me? You are now blaming women for being the victim? If you dont have clear consent, guess what , its rape. If you know the person is under the influence of alcohol i.e. drunk, that means you are taking advantage of her, yes that is rape. So because you are unable to control yourself, it is now a crime against men? How about just having some respect and will power and walk away to have sex another day, instead of taking advantage of the woman. I cannot believe you actually tried to blame the victim, that is pitiful.
0
abc
written by Kaser , October 16, 2012
abc's article is headlined "RAPE ...", but the article talks about being "SEXUALLY ASSAULTED"
RAPE means unwanted, forced penetration. SEXUAL ASSAULT can mean anything from a perceived brush against a breast to full-out rape.
If 18% of the women in the USA were RAPED, then I'm sure, way before it got to that point, authorities would have mobilized and the problem taken care of.
So much for that ill-written article.

You knew that abc, but you could not resist posting this idiotic article.

And, it's amazing to see fathers killing their own daughters, as happened in my country also. When it's a Muslim male, honor is the explanation, daughter's western attitudes the blame. When a non-Muslim male kills his offspring, insanity, disease, revenge against the ex-wife are usually the culprits. Never honor!

Again, Islamic values take precedence over the life of a human. Not all Muslims of course. But Islam seems, yet again, inspires Muslims to commit such crimes.

Again, mostly against women.

Pathetic.
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Malem
written by xyz , October 17, 2012
"Are you kidding me? You are now blaming women for being the victim? If you dont have clear consent, guess what , its rape."

Malem, how can you say it's rape? It is conscentual sex. A woman would easily blame man once she gets sober because this is how it is in all societies. Women to be the victim after having conscentual sex.
0
Rape is wilfull invention of westerners
written by Infidel and More Proud , October 17, 2012
As per Sharia Maritial Rape is invention of westerners.
There is no maritial rape in Islam for the women has to ready with her legs in air even when riding a camel.
Women can be sick, old or not in mood but she has no choice otherwise then to service her man for she is tilth, tilth and tilth.
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Infidel and XYZ
written by Malem , October 17, 2012
Another dumb comment, there is no such thing in the Koran and thus no such thing in Islam.

XYZ, youre another idiot who blames the victim. See you admit she is drunk, which means she is not capable of a clear and rational decision. Yet you cannot control yourself for one evening and decide to have non consenting sex. Yes, you see if the person is under the influence they cannot make a clear decision. Instead of acting like an animal why dont you have some respect for women.

Where is Fineliving on this debate or Betty? Their silence is odd.
0
Malem
written by Kaser , October 17, 2012
Quran 002.223
Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear Allah. And know that ye are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who believe.

This verse alone must be used often by men to justify why their wife (wives) cannot refuse his sexual advance, would you not agree?
Also,

004.024
Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained ....

This verse, I believe would be used to justify having sex with a woman slave. Meaning, rape as I am sure she would not agree.
How many millions of women were raped (beaten) over the centuries because of Muslim following this verse?

Need I continue?
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...
written by kope , October 17, 2012
infidels american are number one in raping women


Rape Statistics - Paralumun New Age Village
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_reporting
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Rami
written by abc , October 17, 2012
"abc, rape in the US is often not rape. Sometimes a women gets drunk (her decision), wants sex (her decision), then decides afterwards that she didn't want it (her decision). And often these situations lead to the guy being convicted of rape. Its a grave mistake against men. Its sexist against men"

How can you write this rubbish??? Have you lost your marbles?
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Kope
written by Kaser , October 17, 2012
Brilliant detective work Kope.

You can't even figure out that according to the wiki article, women REPORT rapes in higher proportions inthe US then most other places.

That's because in the US, and other Western countries, RAPE is not acceptable, is punished by law, and Women are secure in the knowledge that the system will PROTECT them. Not protect the agressor.
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Kaser
written by kope , October 17, 2012
white man know how to justified evils., raping killing, bombing, nuking, invading country

white's man end time is near
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Kaser
written by Malem , October 17, 2012
More excuses eh lad, cant admit that it is more prevalent there? Maybe its because your little friend like XYZ and Infidel, blame the victim. Do you agree with them? You dont have the courage to answer that, I realize that becuase if you did you have admonished them. Your silence is telling. They try to hide behind their little words but blaming the victim outright that is just sad, what a sad excuse for a group of men you are. Peace
0
This article was difficult to read ..Rape in general is not about sex
written by fineliving56 , October 17, 2012
Rape is about control, domination, humiliation and violence ... Men, who do it are nothing but cowards who has the intense need to prey on a weaker females because they CAN, while standing up to another man is too difficult to handle. In Islamic world reasons for rape are basically the same except Muslim Rapist/ husbands are backed by their Islam .. women are owned and bought for, with gold and money .

Islamic Marriage is nothing but a contract between the father of the bride and the man with the unspoken conditions '' unlimited sex without restrictions in exchange for roof and board and living expenses for the women. That exchange is the most cruel thing a father and mothers could do to their daughters, by doing this, they take away all control a women's life from her .. even rape by the husband is brushed as nothing but a duty a women has to do ... if her husband like it that way, well she has to do it ... complains about beating with bruises on face and body while raping, is the only time were family will try to get involved as Quran has said 4/34 /35 ...

This Islamic culture which only came from six century mentality, is so ingrained in the fabric of Muslims lives and women in particular, that even mother [ which rape happened to them most of the time ] do not see any problem in letting the husband do that to their daughters ... it is understood ... it is resignation ... it is only every women their fate .

The women is not required by the law of sharia, to do anything In their homes in Islamic law .. not house work , not even nursing the babies . After all taking care of her children is not in the contract of the sale of her body on demand for exchange of riches .

Look at the NAME of Marriage in general .. it is called '' nikah'' means '' intercourse'' .. and the the night of consummation is called ''Laylat al Daklah '' means '' the night of entry .

I remember of a beautiful bride of 13 from my city Aleppo who died of bleeding to death from her injuries in her wedding night . The husband was a rich Saudi who has a lot of money to have her ... her youth and beauty was to much for that monster to handle so he raped her and BIT OFF BOTH OF HER NIPPLES .. by the time he recovered to realize what he had done she bled too much blood to save her and she was gone .

I know as the Muslims said, rape happens all over the world , but they fail to say in Islam it has a license in marriages .



0
@ Malem
written by This is Rami Rustom , October 17, 2012
>> abc, rape in the US is often not rape. Sometimes a women gets drunk (her decision), wants sex (her decision), then decides afterwards that she didn't want it (her decision). And often these situations lead to the guy being convicted of rape. Its a grave mistake against men. Its sexist against men.

> Are you kidding me? You are now blaming women for being the victim? If you dont have clear consent, guess what , its rape.

Right. Why did you think that I disagreed with that?

> If you know the person is under the influence of alcohol i.e. drunk, that means you are taking advantage of her, yes that is rape.

False. She chose to get drunk. And while she's drunk, she can choose to say "no".

> So because you are unable to control yourself,

Being drunk does not mean one is unable to control himself. That is a myth.

> it is now a crime against men? How about just having some respect and will power and walk away to have sex another day, instead of taking advantage of the woman. I cannot believe you actually tried to blame the victim, that is pitiful.

You are wrong to believe that being drunk means that she can't control herself.
0
@ abc
written by This is Rami Rustom , October 17, 2012
> How can you write this rubbish??? Have you lost your marbles?

Read my criticism of the article about rape (see below). Find a flaw, quote it here, and criticize it so we can discuss content rather than just name calling.

My criticism of an article titled _Women 'to blame' for being raped_:

http://ramirustom.blogspot.com/2012/10/criticism-of-article-women-to-blame-for.html
0
Islam
written by Tanstaafl jw , October 17, 2012
is the only religion that legalizes rape and violence towards women.
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Malem
written by Kaser , October 17, 2012
Malem, stick with the facts:
The article on wiki lists rape REPORTS.
The article on top lists ANY sexual assault.

I will never admit to something that is not true.

Also, I'm not agreeing with any statement that categorically places the blame on women for being raped. That's Islam/Sharia talk. It's insanity.
Most rape victims are just that - victims.

Now let me educate you about what Rami might have meant:
What is true is that since women and men are treated as equals according to OUR system, it boils down to the credibility of the man and the woman.
A woman with bad intentions could easily accuse a man of rape. She will have to prove it in court though. She stands before the court as equal to the man she accuses.
If she lies, and it's proven, then she is accused of contempt of court. A serious offense.

MALEM - how about this question to you: Since you are a believer of the Quran as being the law of god (or whatever) - how do you reconcile Islam's teachings about women?
Please humor me and comment the two verses I quoted above.
You won't because you are afraid to.

You, like many Muslims, are quick to accuse the West of obscenities, when in reality, all modern human rights and freedoms comes from there. From judeo-christian cultures.
Islam still promotes scriptures anchored in 1400 year-old ideologies.

Pathetic Malem, you lost points...
0
when she can physically endure it
written by Montegue , October 17, 2012
It is obligatory for a woman to let her husband have sex with her immediately when she can physically endure it,

This explains why the Islamists in Egypt are push for the legislation of necrophilia law to permit a husband to have sex with the corpse of his wife within the first 6 hours of her death. After her death, she certainly can physically endure it. Repulsive, contemptible, and odious.
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kaser
written by malem , October 17, 2012
Lost points? This is not a game to me, maybe that is how you treat the subject. So you are a mind reader? You can somehow read Ramis mind on what he might have meant? Haha that is laughable. You are just as bad as he is trying to justify his comment of blaming the women for rape, that is sad.
0
Islam
written by dead or alive , October 17, 2012
Stalking predators.A real sorry religion.
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@ Malem about Kaser
written by This is Rami Rustom , October 17, 2012
> So you are a mind reader? You can somehow read Ramis mind on what he might have meant?

Guessing what someone meant does not constitute mind reading. He read my statement. And then he guessed what it means. And then he rephrased it. And of course its possible he might be wrong. But in this case, he was right.

Malem, your understanding of rape is predicated on the idea that being drunk relieves a person of responsibility. It doesn't! Firstly, it doesn't prevent her to say "no", and secondly, even if she did have a problem with saying no while drunk, then its her responsibility to not drink.

Note that you keep talking about rape without addressing criticism. This is the mark of irrationality. How do you expect to convince anyone if you don't address criticism? How do you expect to change your mind (if you're mistaken) if you don't address criticism?
0
Malem or abc or Kope
written by xyz , October 17, 2012
Dear Malem

I will not call you dumb or idiot to prove my point. A loser has such a tendency.

When a girl is under alcohol influence, how can you verify that she is being forced for the sex?

When a girl decides to drink alcohol means she is ready to loose her senses and she is ready to cross limits. Who are you to judge her intentions?

A girl should think about consequences before drinking in case she considers having sex under the influence as a RAPE.

Two people having sex under influence and RAPE are two different things. I am sure you have never experienced it (as being a devout Muslim)
0
Malem abc and kope
written by xyz , October 17, 2012

And by the way when Muslims say " there is so much rape in the west" are they talking about non Muslim men raping Muslim women OR non Muslim men raping non Muslim women? OR Muslim men raping non Muslim women?

Can you clarify on this please.

If non Muslims are having conscentual sex ( or raping) non Muslim girls why it is a concern for Muslims?

If Muslim men are raping non Muslim women, this should be a worry for devout Muslims like Malem, abc and Kope and they should condemn this in the best possible ways.
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Malem abc or kope
written by xyz , October 17, 2012
And to educate you

A man and woman are considered EQUAL in western societies ( unlike Islam) .

Also sex is more enjoyable and pleasurable when both are drunk. A girl enjoys it more than a boy. You must experience it ( lads)
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Islamic "argument"
written by Angry Ant , October 17, 2012
DON'T get suckered by these scumbags (kope, etc.)- that's just what they love. You will notice they refuse to address the truth, using the same old bullshit tactics of avoidance, deflection, outright lies; 'taqiyya' in the koran, lying for Allah. Islam's prophet made a virtue out of lying & they have no other way to combat facts- that's why their "arguments" are so profoundly stupid.
Another favourite is "tu quoque"- meaning 'you also' which accuses the accuser of the same or worse behaviour. Which is often irrelevant or untrue, or no longer practised (eg the Crusades).
In short, Islamists are obliged to defend the indefensible; they are willing slaves of Allah, so have NO CHOICE.
0
Fineliving
written by abc , October 17, 2012
I think I might post you out a bullshit meter!
Every time you post the readings go off the scale!!!

"Look at the NAME of Marriage in general .. it is called '' nikah'' means '' intercourse''

Really????
0
XYZ
written by Malem , October 17, 2012
While I would generally not purport to label someone as an idiot your statement "Also sex is more enjoyable and pleasurable when both are drunk. A girl enjoys it more than a boy. You must experience it ( lads) " backs up that label lad. Cheers!
0
Malem
written by xyz , October 17, 2012
Dear Malem

That's why I told you to experience it before judgement. I am sure you will agree with me. But probably you are too old to enjoy sex anymore and that also sex after drinking vodka.

OR you cannot enjoy it being a devout muslim. Hope you can enjoy both in after life in jannah. More cheers
0
Malem u need Viagra
written by xyz , October 17, 2012
Dear Old Malem

Devout Muslim men like you have been promised to have lots of sex and wine ( both together) in Jannah.

All devout Muslims having sex and wine will be idiots ( if this is your definition of an idiot)

More and more cheers old man

.



0
abc and kope
written by xyz , October 17, 2012

abc and kope are gays

I feel sorry for them
0
Xyz
written by abc , October 17, 2012
You have the nerve to come back???
Mr pretty n can get into clubs. Whites are the cream of civilisation yet people with colour are backwards. Do you know you talk out of your arse mr bounty boy!
Self depricating Pakistani fool!
0
xyz
written by abc , October 17, 2012
Come on regail me with tales of your good looks and how you have a white mrs in the UAE. How people mistake you for a non Pakistani!
How you like to get pissed and go clubbing with your drunk wife!!!
Come pretty boy I'm all ears!!!
0
abc
written by xyz , October 17, 2012

I do not look like a typical pakistani ( i am good looking and only wear branded clothes) and they show much respect when I am with my white wife.

And yes me and my wife go to clubs and drink and dance and have fun.

What's your problem??? Why u r pissed off ??

0
Muslims have way less reported rape
written by annad , October 17, 2012
For the simple reason - women who were raped have to think really hard before reporting it. she already was brutalized by her rapist, now, if she decides to report it she has to prove that she was not a willing paritcipant, and if not she will face an additional punishment, plus she will be stigmatized by Muslim community.

So dear muslims, there is nothing for you to be proud of. Your numbers don't prove there is less rape in Islamic societies. only that there are way less reports about it.
Just like with converts to Islam. It's very easy to convert to Islam. But if you decide to convert from it, you will face death sentence. Makes someone thingk twice.
0
What's your problem??? Why u r pissed off ??
written by annad , October 17, 2012
He has to wait until he dies to (maybe) do this kind of stuff. And you are doing it now. He probably is consumed by all kind of doubts - what if there is nothing after death?
Then, he just waisted his life by beiving in old desert goat's fairy tales.
Right, abc?
0
Malem
written by Kaser , October 17, 2012
Mind reading, like sorcery, is not in my realm Malem.

But Malem, you are quick to attack in your posts, but always avoiding any form of discussion.

Why avoid logically defending the religion which is attempting to rule us all?
Why can you not convince me of the Light of Islam. I am an atheist (by Allah's will I guess).

C'mon man, work harder to close the sale - enlighten me (and us all) on the light of Islam!
0
Anand
written by xyz , October 17, 2012

Dear Anand

You r on the spot man. Poor abc, Malem and kope. They cannot kope with this situation.
0
@ Malem
written by This is Rami Rustom , October 17, 2012
> While I would generally not purport to label someone as an idiot your statement "Also sex is more enjoyable and pleasurable when both are drunk. A girl enjoys it more than a boy. You must experience it ( lads) " backs up that label lad. Cheers!

Malem, before you call someone an idiot, you should know what it means to be an idiot. An idiot is a person that makes the same mistakes over and over again with little success in correcting those mistakes.

And here you've labeled xyz as an idiot without even claiming that his statement is mistaken, not even once. First you explain that his statement is mistaken and then he would have to make that mistake over and over again before it would make sense to call him an idiot.

So, what is your criticism of his statement?
0
Abc
written by fineliving56 , October 17, 2012
Yes, Really abc ! ...…. YES!

Your Question TELLS ME how much you know about, Quran /Islam/Arabic language /Arabic culture/ Muhammad.

I Have posted about this subject to Reed Wilson and now he knows , THAT THE ISLAMIC ARABIC WORD *NIKAH* DOES mean as I stated ….

It refer to '' HALAL INTERCOURSE '' that
happens under the bond of Marriage

If you know Arabic language of Quran, you would have known this fact …after all it was repeated so many times In Quran …

Nikah … is an old preIslamic word …Quran, in turn, used it , only when IT TALKED ABOUT THE MAN CONSUMMATED THE MARRIAGE

Now …

The word '' Ziwag '' is the official and general Arabic word to refer Marriage but not necessarily refers to the intercourse aspect of it .

Now I have to be little frank about this subject but it has to be said, to allow you to understand .
There are slain Arabic word ,for the '' F--k word '' and the variation words for it …are '' Nak… Niik ... Naka … Manuuk … Manuukah … Manayeek … Manuukat … etc …

As you might suspect these slain words derived from the proper word for intercourse '' NIKAH '' as you can see they all sound like the word '' Nikah ''.

All arabic children are forbidden from saying it, because it is considered a cussing word … just like, it is here with the word F --k .

'' Nakih '' …. is a root word for Nikah and it means … consummation of marriage

Quran English translations actually translate the word '' Nikah'' correctly as Marriage that is consummated '' HALAL INTERCOURSE ''

I hop you understand now .
0
Rami Rustom
written by Kaser , October 17, 2012
Regarding insulting others, there is a saying I like:

"He who throws mud looses ground"...

When confronted with argumentation and logic, deceitful people will resort to throwing mud...
0
KNOW THE TRUE ISLAM
written by A KHAN , October 17, 2012
www.islam-watch.org
www.jihadwatch.org
www.faithfreedom.org
www.apostatesofislam.com
www.islamist-watch.org
prophetofdoom.net
www.mundosinislam.com
topdocumentaryfilms.com/true-islam/
topdocumentaryfilms.com/science-and-islawww.islamicart.co.il/enm

islammonitor.org/index.php?...islam-watch...islamic.

www.thereligionofpeace.com/

www.faithfreedom.org/
www.islamist-watch.org
formermuslimsunited.americancommunityexchange.org/
http://www.studytoanswer.net/islam_myths.html
mostintolerantreligion.com/tag/islam-watch-org
islam-watch.blogspot.com
www.islamicart.co.il/en/
www.themuslimwatch.com/
www.1000mistakes.com
freedomdefense.typepad.com/leave-islam/
apostasyandislam.blogspot.com
apostasyandislam.blogspot.com
www.amazon.com/Leaving-Islam-Apostates-Speak.../1591020689
www.anti-cair-net.org
www.masada2000.org/islam.html -
www.seafox.com/islam.html
christianfighter.blogspot.com/.../5-reasons-why-islam-is-false.html
www.rim.org/muslim/islam.htm
www.formermuslims.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=972www.sodahead.com/fun/proof-that-islam-is-a.../blog-139099
www.sodahead.com/fun/proof-that-islam-is-a.../blog-139099

/
prophetofdoom.net/
www.peacefaq.com/apostacy.htm
www.peacefaq.com/apostacy.htm
www.ezsoftech.com/stories/mis42.asp
www.thewaytotruth.org
www.twf.org/Truth.
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-871902797772997781
www.british-israel.ca/Islam.htm
www.techybytes.com/why-islam-is-a-backwards-religion/
www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/72-18087.aspx -
www.islamic-truth.co.uk/
www.islamcan.com/cleartruth/
www.anst.uu.se/alion490
www.examinethetruth.com/Challenge_Sina.htm
www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU36ZjEsJEA
www.amazon.com/Understanding-Muhammad.../dp/0980994802

muslim-responses.com/Ali_Sina_exposed_/Ali_Sina_exposed_

www.islam-watch.org/AliSina/index.html
muslim-responses.com/Ali_Sina_exposed_/Ali_Sina_exposed
www.amazon.com/Understanding-Muhammad.../dp/0980994802
www.mpacuk.org/story/020912/imran-firasat-tries-hit-back.html
www.citizenwarrior.com/2012/09/update-on-imran-firasat.html
ourchristianplace.com/mundosinislam/ - United States
themuslimissue.wordpress.com/.../spain-imran-firasat-10-reasons-to-b
britishfreedom.org/tag/imran-firasat/
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVsCGxwxq9A
mundosinislam.com/english/
islam-watch.org/.../1043-tarnishing-imran-firasat-how-muslims-lie.ht
my.opera.com/imranfirasatblog/blog/
www.ustream.tv/channel/imran-firasat
vimeo.com/24591627
unsavoryislam.blogspot.com/.../imran-firasat-i-will-burn-koran-in.ht
www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/foreigner-wanted.../408675
blogantiislam.wordpress.com/2011/07/25/muhammad-a-sex-robot/
www.freedombulwark.net/my-blog/blogger/Imran Firasat
vimeo.com/worldwithoutislam
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVsCGxwxq9A
hinduawaken.wordpress.com/.../bush-a-forgotten-hero-by-imran-fira
https://www.interpol.int/public/data/wanted/.../34/2010_39234.asp
0
KNOW ISLAM
written by A KHAN , October 17, 2012
www.islam-watch.org
www.jihadwatch.org
www.faithfreedom.org
www.apostatesofislam.com
www.islamist-watch.org
prophetofdoom.net
www.mundosinislam.com
topdocumentaryfilms.com/true-islam/
topdocumentaryfilms.com/science-and-islawww.islamicart.co.il/enm

islammonitor.org/index.php?...islam-watch...islamic.

www.thereligionofpeace.com/

www.faithfreedom.org/
www.islamist-watch.org
formermuslimsunited.americancommunityexchange.org/
http://www.studytoanswer.net/islam_myths.html
mostintolerantreligion.com/tag/islam-watch-org
islam-watch.blogspot.com
www.islamicart.co.il/en/
www.themuslimwatch.com/
www.1000mistakes.com
freedomdefense.typepad.com/leave-islam/
apostasyandislam.blogspot.com
apostasyandislam.blogspot.com
www.amazon.com/Leaving-Islam-Apostates-Speak.../1591020689
www.anti-cair-net.org
www.masada2000.org/islam.html -
www.seafox.com/islam.html
christianfighter.blogspot.com/.../5-reasons-why-islam-is-false.html
www.rim.org/muslim/islam.htm
www.formermuslims.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=972www.sodahead.com/fun/proof-that-islam-is-a.../blog-139099
www.sodahead.com/fun/proof-that-islam-is-a.../blog-139099

/
prophetofdoom.net/
www.peacefaq.com/apostacy.htm
www.peacefaq.com/apostacy.htm
www.ezsoftech.com/stories/mis42.asp
www.thewaytotruth.org
www.twf.org/Truth.
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-871902797772997781
www.british-israel.ca/Islam.htm
www.techybytes.com/why-islam-is-a-backwards-religion/
www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/72-18087.aspx -
www.islamic-truth.co.uk/
www.islamcan.com/cleartruth/
www.anst.uu.se/alion490
www.examinethetruth.com/Challenge_Sina.htm
www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU36ZjEsJEA
www.amazon.com/Understanding-Muhammad.../dp/0980994802

muslim-responses.com/Ali_Sina_exposed_/Ali_Sina_exposed_

www.islam-watch.org/AliSina/index.html
muslim-responses.com/Ali_Sina_exposed_/Ali_Sina_exposed
www.amazon.com/Understanding-Muhammad.../dp/0980994802
www.mpacuk.org/story/020912/imran-firasat-tries-hit-back.html
www.citizenwarrior.com/2012/09/update-on-imran-firasat.html
ourchristianplace.com/mundosinislam/ - United States
themuslimissue.wordpress.com/.../spain-imran-firasat-10-reasons-to-b
britishfreedom.org/tag/imran-firasat/
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVsCGxwxq9A
mundosinislam.com/english/
islam-watch.org/.../1043-tarnishing-imran-firasat-how-muslims-lie.ht
my.opera.com/imranfirasatblog/blog/
www.ustream.tv/channel/imran-firasat
vimeo.com/24591627
unsavoryislam.blogspot.com/.../imran-firasat-i-will-burn-koran-in.ht
www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/foreigner-wanted.../408675
blogantiislam.wordpress.com/2011/07/25/muhammad-a-sex-robot/
www.freedombulwark.net/my-blog/blogger/Imran Firasat
vimeo.com/worldwithoutislam
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVsCGxwxq9A
hinduawaken.wordpress.com/.../bush-a-forgotten-hero-by-imran-fira
https://www.interpol.int/public/data/wanted/.../34/2010_39234.asp
0
to Malman and Kope
written by Infidel and More Proud , October 18, 2012
I cant stop laughing to imagine Malamn riding a camel and boinking on it.
What a scene.

Kope you will not get any white pearly boys or houris in heaven. You will get black boys with big dirks and big black women who will beat the shit out of you. You hate whites so Allah will terrorise you for being a racist.
0
Rami
written by Malem , October 18, 2012
You statement backing up Kaser, just proves my assertion lad. Cheers! Hey are you going to Hajj this year? let me know maybe we can meet up and go over the Koran together
0
to Kaser mud is not bad at all
written by Infidel and More proud , October 18, 2012
Allah asks muslims to do wudu with mud. Just imagine if a person is so dirty that rubbing mud does wudu.
Qur'an - Al-Mâ'idah 5:6
Even Malman uses it to strerlise his instrument. Ask his wives..
Muslims can even do Gusal with mud as per quran.
A typical muslim after Wudu with mud http://worldofwonder.net/2010/...be_Jet_Us/
0
@ Malem
written by This is Rami Rustom , October 18, 2012
> You statement backing up Kaser, just proves my assertion lad. Cheers!

"You statement"? I note that this is not proper English. So you make a certain kind of mistake, multiple times, and then you make fun of someone else for making a similar mistake. Why? Why point out my mistake with an intention to *hurt* me when you make that same mistake at least 100 fold times more than I do? Note that words can't hurt me so I don't know why you try.

And you are wrong. You used a non-sequitur in your logic. You've made this mistake a few times now. I think you have no intention of trying to prevent this type of mistake going forward, or any of your mistakes. Which means that you are ok with making the same mistakes over and over and over again. This is the mark of an idiot.

Its ironic too because you falsely asserted that xyz is an idiot and here you are being an idiot. Self-refutation is hilarious!

By the way, you didn't even make an assertion. You asked 2 questions to Kaser. You've made this mistake (of saying a question is an assertion) twice so far. How many more times will you make this type of mistake before learning to prevent it? While you continue to live passively as you have been, you won't learn how to fix this mistake, or any mistake. Again, the mark of an idiot.

To Everyone: Just because Malem is an idiot now, doesn't mean that he won't change this in the future. He *does* have a choice in this matter. It is true that most people in his situation choose not to improve. But he could choose to be of the small percentage of people that do otherwise.
0
Sir
written by Lancelot , October 18, 2012
It is wrong to suggest that Islam is from a 6th Century mentality, it is not, it is a resurgence of Bronze Age philosophy, that around three and a half thousand years ago - similar to the Book of Deuteronomy, whose laws thankfully have long since passed into history. Islam is fear based, fear begets hate, and so dwells at the foot of the Holy Cross. We, with the help of the Holy Mother of our Lord, aim to dwell atop the cross in the realm of love and forgiveness, and at the right hand of the Master. The Gospel of John assures us we have our being within the Logos, within the Son of God, the first of Creation, and that the source of all is LOVE, love banishes fear, and love presupposes forgiveness. Islam is the antitheses of true Christianity, the new Covenant.
0
Lancelot
written by kope , October 18, 2012
what are you smoking? your cult christianity is dying
0
...
written by Lancelot , October 18, 2012
Love and forgiveness will kill Islam - True Christianity is the religion of women and slaves, the oppressed..
May the blessings of Love, Light and Life be upon you Kope.
0
Xyz
written by abc , October 18, 2012
You are living the dream. Good looking guy, gets much respect from Arabs because of your white wife, easy access to clubs and drink and now you tell me you wear designer gear too! Can I just ask if 50 cents song in the club is playing on a continuous loop in your head??forget about the saying " every body wants to be like mike". Mike wants to be like you. Who wouldn't want to be like you!

You are the king of the swingers a UAE VIP, you've got to the top and didnt stop and it's bothering abc. I want be a man Xyz and stroll right into town, I want to do what men do, I'm tired of monkeying around.
:-)
0
Fineliving
written by abc , October 18, 2012
Just because someone didn't question your nonsense it dies not mean I will not!

From: Dictionary of the Quranic phrases and its meaning; Sheik Mousa Ben Mohammed Al Kaleeby, Cairo, Maktabat Al Adab, 2002
The definition of "Nikah" is the penetration of one thing by another. Examples would be as in saying the seed in the soil. It also can mean the entwining of two objects one with the other. An example would be saying the trees (embrace) each other, meaning they entwined with one another.
0
Fineliving
written by abc , October 18, 2012
Linguistically nikah means penetrating or entwining!
The word can also be used metaphorically "pebble in the camels hoof!"
In the context of marriage it can mean intercourse or marriage.
It can also be used to denote the age of puberty.
When used as a figure of speech it is used to describe marriage.

Do your research and then pass judgement!!!
0
@ Everyone
written by This is Rami Rustom , October 18, 2012
Hello Islam-watch users,

I have started a new (public) philosophy email list focused on religion. I invite all of you to join and discuss the following:

- how politics should treat religion and religious matters,

- religion, God, Heaven/Hell, sin, good deeds, and

- how anything is affected by religion including but not limited to: morality, politics, culture, psychology, parenting, relationships.


Note that one thing that will not be tolerated is hostility, such as personal attacks. So I'll be banning members that do this. The list is for us to discuss *ideas* not specific people. So one thing that will be stressed is personal privacy. Meaning that its better to keep personal details private.

Right now there is no discussion going on yet because there is only 1 other member besides me. So don't expect a lot of discussion just yet.

If you're interested, join here: http://groups.google.com/group.../subscribe

-- Rami Rustom
http://ramirustom.blogspot.com
0
ABC
written by fineliving56 , October 18, 2012
Amazing ? … hahaha

I said the meaning of . the word '' nikah '' in Islamic marriages is …'' intercourse '' synonym to penetration .

You said … [ after saying '' really ?'' , doubting me, and after the long research!

You said .. the meaning of '' Nikah '' is '' THE PENETRATION OF ONE THING BY ANOTHER ''

NOW … let us ask the stupid Question [ it looks like we have to ]

'' what is the meaning of '' intercourse '' …. Uhhhhh …

Let me see ?

Would it be ?

'' the penetration of one thing by another ''

Uhhhh

Do I have to explain ?

OK .. I guess I have to …

'' Women part penetrated by a man's part '' … intercourse >>> penetration >>>> puting the seed in

I am sorry I had to be this graphic … I thought you would understand without drawing a mental picture

Abc … kindly tell me what did I say that contradicts with your extended research with the Majestic Shiek Musa Muhammad ALi [ waw his name includes all the prophets …so that will give him added importance …huh… lol ? ]

Remember ABC … I was talking about how the Islamic marriage named '' nikah '' to mean intercourse/ penetration …

I did not say that it did NOT have any other meanings …You might know that there many of words has different meanings in every language there is .

Again … I did not say anything that differ from what you said … you got that ?

0
@ abc
written by This is Rami Rustom , October 18, 2012
> Linguistically nikah means penetrating or entwining!

Right. So in the context of a marriage, "nikah" means penetration of man in women.

> The word can also be used metaphorically "pebble in the camels hoof!" In the context of marriage it can mean intercourse or marriage. It can also be used to denote the age of puberty. When used as a figure of speech it is used to describe marriage.

> Do your research and then pass judgement!!!

You are agreeing with her. Her point was that the name for marriage is nikah (which means penetration). That is what she's pointing out. Its shocking and revealing of what arab culture thinks of marriage. And you have agreed with her on this fact. But you are saying something that sounds like you're disagreeing with her. So I'm confused and I expect everyone else is confused too. So what exactly are you disagreeing with her about?
0
Rami
written by abc , October 18, 2012
From my reading, she was claiming that's all it meant.
If she was sincere them she would have given a full meanin(s) of the word. She didn't out of ignorance/spite.
0
No… Abc
written by fineliving56 , October 18, 2012
You said …'' She did it out of ignorance/spite .

It is true that I like Islam as I like cancer, with reasons as you well know but deny .

But I did NOT do it out of ignorance and spite like you said and you know it .That is … in your biased imagination .

If you want to know, why I did not include all other meanings, it is simple … it is because ALL OTHER MEANINGS, DOES NOT PERTAIN TO ** ISLAMIC MARRIAGE ** I was talking about ….

Because …. It is irrelevant

Here, I will bring, one of your meanings, you brought :

Does, '' the babel in the camel hoof '' has anything to do Islamic marriage '' Nikah? '' , NO!

BTW … thanks … for confirming '' Nikah '' [Islamic marriage] is exactly meant what I said .

I am interested in revealing, the truth about Islam as it IS … not what ignorance /biased Muslims like to SHOW the world .

Not, spite .. it is truthfulness




0
Fineliving
written by abc , October 18, 2012
Surah 2:221
Tankihoo and further on tunkihoo!
In the context of the verse. Intercourse or marriage??

Try
2:232, 2:235, 2:237, 4:3, 4:6, 4:22, 4:25 etc
All use the word or a derivative of the word and in all cases it denotes marriage!
0
@ abc
written by This is Rami Rustom , October 19, 2012
> In the context of the verse. Intercourse or marriage??

I don't think you get her point, which is that the word for marriage is "Nikah", which means penetration.

Based on this...

> All use the word or a derivative of the word and in all cases it denotes marriage!

It sounds like you are thinking that fineliving said that the word nikah, in those Quranic verses, means penetration instead of marriage. She's not saying that at all.
0
@ abc
written by This is Rami Rustom , October 19, 2012
> From my reading, she was claiming that's all it meant.

When I read it, I didn't understand that. I don't know how you did.

> If she was sincere them she would have given a full meanin(s) of the word. She didn't out of ignorance/spite.

I don't see why you believe that. You are guessing that she did it for that reason. I don't see any purpose to describing what nikah means in other contexts besides marriage. It doesn't affect her point in the slightest. She didn't mention them because they are irrelevant to her point, which is that *the word for marriage is "Nikah", which means penetration*. Why do you think the other meanings of the word Nikah (which require other contexts besides marriage) are relevant to her point? Do you think they change the meaning of her point or something?
0
@ Nikah
written by Infidel and More Proud , October 19, 2012
So as per abc it is peble getting stuck in camels feet....

Arent you havin a girraffe.
0
Outreach to Muslims and especiailly Muslimas
written by Guy Macher , October 19, 2012
The plight of Muslimas has always laid heavy on my heart. I'm asking Christians to pray that Muslims turn from evil and toward Jesus. That will help Muslimas and the entire world.

http://1159pmgmt.blogspot.com/2012/10/outreach-to-muslims.html
0
to abc
written by annad , October 19, 2012
The point that fineliving made and which is pretty obvious to everybody else except you that original purpose for islamic marriage was to have lawfull intercourse with women. Not compaionship; not friendship; not having common goals in life. Not even to raise children -just as simple as that - the rught to woman' s vagina for which musliman previously paid and will continue to pay by providing her with room and board and such.
Not very respectful postion for a woman. Its too much like prostituition.
Compare this with western consept of marriage where mutual love is considered the basic element. No mention of it in islamic consept. Just another master/slave relashionship.
0
Annand
written by abc , October 20, 2012
Why would you make such a comment when you have no knowledge of islam.
Does this sound like prostitution:

"And among His signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your hearts. Undoubtedly in these are signs for those who reflect." [Noble Quran 30:21]

"And Allah has made for you your mates of your own nature, and made for you, out of them, sons and daughters and grandchildren, and provided for you sustenance of the best." [Noble Quran 16:72]

Surely you can do better if you took your blinkers off and emptied your heart of hatred!
0
abc- prostitutes are better off?
written by anders , October 20, 2012
abc-- yes you are right in part - but at least prostitutes get paid for sex and can choose when to have sex Musim wives however have to give sex when required for nothing (except perhaps for food and board; how generous)

Sura 30:21 and 16:72 must be considered in the light of 4:34 and 2:223 (if you are rational , that is ).The bottom line is that if Musllim wives step out of line the love goes" poof" and the woman can be beaten if she fails to "obey" .

Of course Mohammad smacked Aisha when she got "nosey" -who was he planning to meet up with, the womaniser?
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Anders
written by abc , October 20, 2012
Dream on!
0
we humans greater than animals?
written by peace lover , October 20, 2012
Rape is invention of human kind, its not found in animals.Rapist should have death penalty even if it is in marriage,
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abc (aktu bhebe chalo!!)
written by Dwito , October 21, 2012
Surely you can do better if you took your blinkers off and emptied your heart of hatred!!


How strange abc!! The same we request muslims worldwide, comes from an fearful muzzy? Did you ever give a think you write ? will you please?
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To abc
written by Archpagan , October 21, 2012
I am so enamored of the word 'NIKAH', that I tend to address all Muslimah by that word, as a synonym for ma'am. Will they like it?
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abc
written by Dwito , October 21, 2012
abc to Anders October 20, 2012

Dream on!

abc, what is a dream?
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@ Nikah
written by Infidel and More Proud , October 22, 2012
I will call Nikah to my mulim frinds as well.
Aki did you have your daily nikah today if not why not?
RW did you also get nikahd?
Kope how was your Nikah experience? Was it bad?
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Dwito
written by abc , October 22, 2012
"How strange abc!! The same we request muslims worldwide, comes from an fearful muzzy? Did you ever give a think you write ? will you please?"

Fearful? Of whom of what? What are you on about now??
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Pagan
written by abc , October 22, 2012
Go right ahead and let me know how you got on?
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Mohammad and Allah were wrong
written by non believer , October 22, 2012

If Mohammed has said that women have half the intelligence of women and now that we find that a girl has higher IQ than Einstein. QED Mohammed and Qur'an are wrong. Malem has less intelligence than his wives again proves Mohammed was wrong. he was wrong in stating that evidence of four women= evidence of one man.
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typo error
written by non believer , October 22, 2012
sorry, it should read "if women have half the intelligence of men"
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abc
written by Dwito , October 22, 2012
Fearful? Of whom of what?


Are you not, abc? Are you not? Aren't you afraid of your merciful Alllah's wrath any more? congratulations!!

You have already apostatized. Welcome to the world of free thinkers.
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Dwito
written by fineliving56 , October 22, 2012
For a Muslim to apostatized from Islam, one needs to be, truthful with one SELF and others, allergic to fear, and has total comprehension of Quran and other Islamic books .

All together has to exist to in Muslim's mind … one or two is not enough.

Apostatizing from all other religions, one needn't to be allergic to fear …as I imagine you well know .

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Allah and his Amnesia
written by Infidel and More Proud , October 24, 2012
All revealed a book..
Torah and he realised he can do better threfore he revealed another book
Gospel..
Now these books are for Jews, Christians and Sabians..
Still he thought they have shortcomings so
He reveled Quran.

Now he thought people may not take him seriously as he already made two books but had to resort to another so he revealed verse 17:88.
What does this mean ? that the book has been revealed at this point therfore anything past this sura is man made or Mo made PBUM (Poo be upon him). When Quran was written past mos death and over a period of years 20-40-100 whatever how did allah know that the book is complete.

What makes Allah think Quran is his ultimate work when he goofed twice before. When Allah knows that he is the best why does he need to challenge others. Is he unsure of him self. Why did he not reveal this sura as last sura.

Me thinks Allah is a dork... and so are his followers.

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About the book || Reviews by: Steven Simpson | Abul Kasem | Prof Sami Alrabaa | Ibn Kammuna

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'Islamic Jihad' in Bangla
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