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Imran Firasat – My True Story

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imran-firasatYou may be familiar with my recent situation and the persecution that I am facing from the Spanish authorities over my movie on Muhammad’s life, "The Innocent Prophet". I made the movie with the sole intention of showing what I believe is the truth about Muhammad. My hope was that Muslims will watch this movie and understand Muhammad for who he truly was. And I will continue my efforts to expose the darker side of Islam and Muhammad that are a mortal threat to this world which we are already experiencing. Neither threats from Muslims nor persecution from western authorities will deter me.

Imran Firasat's Interview

During the last two months, there were several media publications about my movie, my personal life and more than that about my past. A few years ago, certain newspapers had declared me a criminal. But what you hear about me today from newspapers is exactly the person I am. Previously newspapers from Islamic countries or website belonging to radical Islamic organizations with their own agenda wanted to sully my reputation, so that I can be shut up from criticizing Islam forever. And despite I was declared innocent by the Spanish judicial authorities, they haven’t updated or removed their devious lies about me. Despite all those false negative propaganda about me intended for damaging my reputation, I must thank those of my sincere readers and friends, who tried to find the truth about my case, and even tried to defend me.

Internet is a free world where anyone can say or express anything. Since it is easy to write and publish a false piece of news about a person, intended to damage his/her reputation, Internet has changed our life not only in a positive way, but also in a negative way, which can be dangerous to our lives and future. Any news from the internet should be not be accepted without proper investigation. We may even find enough information on the Internet that will show Nelson Mandela or Gandhi as villain.

Today, you are going to learn about me directly from me, not from the writings of others who have never known or met me. I will open my past in front of you, hoping that you will realize there are always two sides of a coin. About me, you have so far only known one side; today you will know the other.

Arrival to Spain

I arrived in Spain with my family in 2004 escaping Islamic persecution in Pakistan. As I was writing critical articles in blogs and expressing critical opinions in Spanish media, the Spanish government granted me refugee status on the grounds of death threats and persecution that I was facing from Muslims and Islamic countries.

I was the target of violence from Muslims both in Pakistan and Spain, as they do not tolerate unsavory truth about Islam and Muhammad, and they also do not believe in freedom of expression. On one occasion, I was attacked by Muslims physically in Spain, which made me decide to leave Spain for a short while, and returned after situation calmed.

Travelling to Indonesia

In year 2008, I went to Indonesia with my Indonesian wife and 3 children. Despite of promising to my wife to quit writing on Islam, I couldn’t stop myself from expressing my views on the Indonesian Islamic society which calls itself the biggest Muslim nation on earth with great pride and is on the way to apply the Islamic shariah law in whole country. While in Indonesia, I witnessed horrible persecution of Ahmadiyya Muslims and Christians by Sunni Muslims. There were also many terrorist attacks targeting western foreigners visiting or living in Indonesia, which Indonesian Islamists perpetrated as their sacred duty of Islamic Jihad.

Opposing Islam in Indonesia

Those incidents motivated me to try to help the Indonesian Muslims out of their Islamic Jihad illusion. I started blogging and publishing books in Indonesian language showing the real face of Quran and Muhammad, hoping that it will change the mentality of Muslims, which I did in fictitious names in order not to get caught by the Indonesia’s Jihadis or Islamic police.

I got huge support by Indonesian Muslims on social networking sites and used to receive thousands of email messages expressing their solidarity with me. On the other side, I also made, as expected, many enemies, including all the Islamic radical groups, who were trying to trace me down. Many news were published in the Indonesian media about my blogs and my criticisms of Islam and Muhammad like following:

  1. Forum pushes for web closure
  2. MUI Medan akan surati Kapoldasu
  3. Blog-Blog Anti-Islam Bertebaran Di Dunia Maya

My blogs were constantly being hacked and shut down by the Indonesian authorities, but I used to create a new one. Indonesian police and Islamic groups were also looking for the person behind those blogs and distributed books.

Caught by the Indonesian police for blasphemy

In year 2010, I was finally caught by the Indonesian police by tracing my IP address, while I was sending some emails. I was detained by the police in Tangerang city and they threatened to prosecute me for blasphemy, which could end me up in prison for my life. On the other hand, corrupt as they are, they offered me not to charge with blasphemy and leave for Spain, if I paid them a huge sum of money as bribe. As spending my whole life in prison or being killed by Islamic groups was not an option, I agreed to pay the bribe.

I was asked to pay the money, I had to promise that I would never return to Indonesia, and I had get a letter from the Spanish embassy in Jakarta, requesting for the Indonesian immigration authority’s permission for letting me leave Indonesia.

My passport was confiscated by the Indonesia immigration authorities while my deportation was in process. Spanish embassy cooperated with me, as I was a legal resident of Spain and that they knew how dangerous it could be for me if the media and Islamic groups come to know that it was actually me who used to create anti-Islamic blogs and books. Spanish embassy issued a letter to the Indonesian authorities and I paid the huge sum of money to the corrupt Indonesian police and immigration officials.

My deportation from Indonesia

My deportation took place on 7th of July 2010, when Indonesian police and immigration officials took me to the airport in Jakarta handcuffed, and was put in a plane. I couldn’t bring my family back with me, as I had to pay all the money I had to the Indonesian officials. I told my wife and children to be patient, let me go back to Spain, work and earn money before making arrangements for their travel to Spain.

Safe arrival to Spain

I arrived back to Spain and was working and saving money for bringing my family back to Spain as soon as possible. But after some months, there was an International arrest warrant issued on my name by the Indonesian police through Interpol. They accused me of murdering someone in Indonesia and then fleeing the country. The Spanish authorities were requested to arrest me and extradite to Indonesia.

Arrested in Spain

I was detained by the Spanish police. I was told that it is their obligation to detain me, as there is an international arrest warrant against me, but I will get a fair chance to prove my innocence and avoid the extradition. At the first instance, I was completely shocked and broken mentally. But my innocence and belief in the Spanish justice system encouraged me to fight against the conspiracy.

Why did Indonesia fabricate false charges against me?

The reason Indonesia issued an arrest warrant against me was that after they deported me, my case was leaked to some Islamic groups, and there was a high level Islamic pressure on the government to bring me back and punish me for blasphemy which they consider a very serious offence. And they accused me of murder, because they knew that if they ask my extradition on the charges of blasphemy, Spanish authority will never entertain that request, as Spain believes in the freedom of expression. That is why they had to create something extremely serious, so that they could take me to Indonesia and kill me there.

I was taken to Madrid high court, and I explained to the judge that I was a political refugee in Spain for six years for the reasons of my criticism of Islam. And right now, the charges which I was facing from Indonesia, an Islamic country, were false, because the Indonesian authority actually want to punish me for my criticism of Islam. The murder charge was invented to manipulate the Spanish judicial system. I requested the judge to ask the proofs against me from the Indonesian authorities. The judge did so. He asked the Indonesian authorities to produce evidence, implicating in the alleged murder crime.

Important facts proving my innocence

I was detained for 90 days. Then there was a trial. Indonesian authorities didn’t send any proof against me. They didn’t even show up in the trial. I presented my statement to the judge as follows:

(1) Indonesia lied to the Spanish authorities by saying that I fled Indonesia, when I was actually deported by them, for which I had the Indonesian immigration department’s “deportation stamp” on my Spanish refugee travel document.

(2) The crime which they charged me with was committed on 10th June 2010. And I was deported from Indonesia on 7th July 2010. This means that after the alleged crime was committed, I was still in Indonesia for 27 days and in police custody. Why wasn’t I charged for this crime during those 27 days and why would they deport me if they knew about my involvement in a serious crime like murder.

Indonesian authorities can’t even say that I was at large, because I was in a complete contact with the Spanish embassy, Indonesian police and the immigration department. All that can be proven by the letter I was issued by the Spanish embassy in Indonesia, the document which shows that my passport was confiscated by the Indonesian immigration and my passport which shows that I didn’t leave Indonesia as a regular visitor but I was deported.

(3) I was deported by the Indonesian officials on 7th July 2010. That means until 7 July 2010, there was no charge against me. But incredibly on the 16th of July 2010, exactly after 8 days after my deportation, I was sentenced in absentia for 20 years. Please pay attention to this very important part of the story that on the 7th of July they deported me but after 8 days they sentenced me in my presence, without giving me a chance or enough time to defend myself.

Which country’s law is so fast and impatient that within 8 days they can organize a trial without the presence of the accused and sentence him for whole life? Not certainly a country like Indonesia, where the corrupt judicial system is extremely slow. This shows that Indonesian police did all this in a hurry with a hidden agenda.

And the extradition which they requested form the Spanish government is not for prosecuting me but for putting me in prison without hearing my defence, as they already had sentenced me. Would Spain or another western country respect this kind of unfair trial, sentence and questionable extradition request?

(4) It may be possible that Indonesians would say that it was a mistake to deport him but after we deported him we found the strong proofs against him, and that is why we sentenced him. But if they can sentence me in absentia in just 8 days, that means they must have very strong proofs against me, right?

So where are those proofs? Why didn’t they produce those proofs? In a case as serious as murder, they should have fingerprints proof, DNA proof, voice or video recording proof, photographic proof or even the murder weapon. Why didn’t they present one or more those proofs after the Spanish High Court requested for them? They didn’t even show up in the trial to prove my guilt?

After presenting this statement, I told to the judge that I haven’t committed any crime and it is an Islamic conspiracy against me. The only crime I have committed in Indonesia or even in Spain is the criticism of the violent Islamic ideology and the false messages of Muhammad. If criticizing a fake prophet is a crime, then yes I have committed a crime; if raising the voice against Islamic Jihad is an offence, then yes I have committed a crime; and if talking in favour of humanity and against terrorism is a crime, then yes I am a proud criminal.

My acquittal

The judge was more than convinced about my innocence after seeing the through lies, which Indonesian authorities had created to frame me and I was acquitted. My extradition to Indonesia was refused. No surprise that Indonesia didn’t lodge any appeal against the court’s decision. They had realized that plain lies won’t be able to deceive a modern and transparent judicial system like Spain’s.

Second chance given to Indonesia by the Spanish justice system

But the judge still wanted to give another chance to Indonesia, if they had something credible against me. So, despite refusing the extradition request and acquitting me, the judge mentioned that Indonesian authority can still come to Spain with all the proofs and prosecute me in the Spanish territory, so that there can be a fair trial.

Spain organized an international co-operation investigative commission, in which Indonesian authorities were invited. This was the final opportunity for the Indonesian authorities to prove their allegations against me.

I was told to appear in the court on the 17th of May 2011, where I would face the Indonesian authorities. I turned up in court, but there were no Indonesian face around. The commission was suspended for the day, and I was given another date, 21st of May 2011, to appear again. When I was about to leave, I got a call from the court informing me that Indonesian authorities won’t come, so the schedule is cancelled again. They gave me another date, 27th of May 2011. I appeared in the court again, but, as I had expected, Indonesia police didn’t show up this time too. Only an employee from the Indonesian embassy in Madrid appeared to sign some papers but he had no power or jurisdiction to ask me any question.

The case had already annoyed the judge to the limit, and he decided to shut down the case forever with no more legal possibilities to go forward.

Indonesia’s Islamic lies defeated by my truth

I was free of all the burdens. I proved my innocence and cleared my name in the Spanish court and media. But Indonesia didn’t give up. Even after losing the legal battle, Islamic police of the Islamic Republic of Indonesia continued abusing their power and use all the legal or illegal cunning diplomatic tricks to capture me, as I was not only an apostate, but also a vocal critic of Islam, who must be killed by according to their Islamic religious obligations.

Ridiculous policy of Interpol

Despite clearing of my name by the Spanish court, Indonesian authority continued keeping my name in the Interpol red notices list hoping that I could still be caught and deported to Indonesia someday, when I am out of the Spanish territory which didn’t believe the Indonesian lies. Interpol took no step to take out my name even after a credible justice system cleared my name.

I am deeply concerned with the Interpol’s strategy, which calls itself the wisest international police organization. Interpol seems to have no idea about how they are being used by some Islamic countries for nefarious purposes. Before ruining the life of someone, why doesn’t Interpol seek for the authenticity of the allegations, charges or the proofs against the accused person?

Interpol says, it is not their job to investigate the particulars of each case and they just do their job to catch the accused people. But how the international community can allow the Interpol to cooperate with Shariah ruled Islamic states, which do not care about human rights, international laws, have no credible judicial system and manipulate the world with lies? Why Interpol has become a tool which corrupt regimes can use for persecuting anyone they want? Why Interpol has changed from a respected international institution to an easy-to-access website, where some crazy people can post someone’s picture and declare him a criminal on the international stage?

We all know the recent case of “Hamza Kashgari”, a Saudi journalist who was arrested in Malaysia and deported to Saudi Arabia with the help of the Interpol for the crime of expressing his views on Prophet Muhammad on Twiter. Shame on the Interpol for becoming a pawn in the hand of Islamic radicals, and for destroying innocent lives in this manner.

Another example of how countries like Indonesia abuses Interpol is the case of “Benny Wenda”. He is an Indonesian citizen and west Papua tribal leader, who received political refuge in the U.K. for his opposition against the Indonesian government’s injustice towards Papua’s innocent and poor people. He was also accused of committing murder by the Indonesian police and issued an international warrant for his arrest through Interpol. But the brave man didn’t give up and fought against the red notice of Interpol, until he convinced the Interpol authorities that Indonesian authority’s charges against him was politically motivated and had no truth behind the murder allegations. His name was finally removed from the red notice by Interpol, issuing a statement that after a review it was found that, “Indonesia’s red notice request was not in compliance with Interpol’s rules and regulations”.

Indonesia’s cruel and corrupt image

In my case, Indonesia, the country which persecutes me, is a state which doesn’t respect the human rights of its citizens. There are many examples for political oppression in the provinces of Papua and Aceh, where the local people have to lose their lives for fighting for independence. Another example is East Timor, which after a long struggle and suffering immense human massacres at the hands of the cruel Indonesian army finally got their independence. Ahmadiyyas, the Muslim minority group in Indonesia, face serious persecution – they get killed by radical Muslims in the presence of the police who never intervene to defend the victims. Watch the following video on how Ahmadiyya Muslims are tortured to death:

Christians are another major victim of Indonesian injustice. Several churches were burnt, innocent Christians were killed and robbed, and police never took any action against those radical Islamic groups, such as Majelis-e-Ulema, Hizbut Tahrir, or Front Pembela Islam, which actually form the government and have the complete power in their hands to erase all those who oppose them or criticize Islam.

Indonesia calls itself a fair democracy, but in reality it is a radical Islamic state. It has no fair judicial system; it allows no freedom of religion. It is a very corrupt country, where any policeman, witness or judge can be bought for a little money.

The Interpol’s red notice against me issued by the Indonesian police was religiously motivated. They have already sentenced and declared me a criminal without a fair trial and a proper process that accord to international laws and human rights of an individual. They did so because they want to shut my mouth, as I expose Islam was a real and mortal threat to the civilized world.

Do I have any criminal record in Spain?

I was detained by police, but for the case I have presented above. So, that doesn’t make someone a criminal. Anybody can be detained anywhere on misunderstanding, false charges or simply on suspicion. And my innocence has been proven through proper judicial procedure in Spain, which has a highly credible justice system in place. I have no criminal record.

Media propaganda based on a false charge against me has created a negative image of me in the public eye. All these have not only destroyed my name, but I have also suffered extraordinary difficulties. Fighting Islam is not an easy job for us to see. I fought against Islam and I have been at the receiving ends of the ire of Muhammad’s followers. Muslims tried hard to eliminate me, but failed. Then, they tried to defame me framing as a murder so as to destroy my name and credibility, so that no one will trust and support me. That is what their strategy is—to create misunderstanding between the free people of free world, so that we shall never have the unity between us and we shall never be able to fight together against the Islamic injustice.

Critics of Islam need unity and support

We, the critics of Islam, need to be united and support each other in order to fight the mortal danger of Islam that is trying to destroy the civilized world. We are on verge to lose everything. Islam is invading our lives. If we let the Islamic dragon devour us once, we shall never be able to recover. As things are progressing, a day may arrive soon when all the western countries will persecute anyone who will speak against Muhammad or Islam. So, wake up!

I am not a political leader, neither do I want to become one. I am only a common man, who understands the seriousness of the Islamic threat that we are under, and we must take actions to stop it. Let us support each other and fight this battle effectively. Else we are sure to be devoured by the fire that comes out of the mouth of Islamic dragon.

I have told my story and that is the complete truth. Anyone, who still may have a second thought about my innocence, may consider the following for further verification:

  • Any document proving my innocence can be provided on the request of readers
  • Here I leave some links of the Spanish media for you which talk about my innocence and how I was framed by Indonesia falsely:
    1. Una vida condenada por criticar el Islam
    2. Criticar el Islam en Pakistan, mutilaciones, vejaciones e injurias
    3. La inocencia es un grado
    4. El tema del Islam siempre da miedo a todo el mundo
    5. De héroe a villano, la lucha de un refugiado político contra la injusticia

Thank you very much.

Comments (80)Add Comment
due to jihad being so politically powerful we r all screwed we ened to fight back....but how ????
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON , January 16, 2013
due to jihad being so politically powerful we r all screwed we ened to fight back....but how ????
written by Kaser , January 16, 2013
Wow, what a story - must be unnerving and scary at times.
Only through the work of people like you, on the front-lines, will we eliminate hateful and supremacist ideologies like Islam.

I do my part through educating those I meet about the true face of Islamic radicalism. Sadly, where I live, only Islam dares to still show publicly its intolerant and supremacist face. We have no communists, no fascists, ect... But we have a few Islamists... I counter this, slowly, systematically, through educating people around me. Through Atheism, I also do not pass for an Islamophobe, but as anti-religion. This site, and others, give me "ammunition" to help pass my message.

Keep up your good work, maintain the courage you have shown up to now. And rest assured YOU are right in your actions.
And, you are proven right day after day after day through the countless horrors we see in the world dispensed by humans, to please their fictitious god - all in the name of the religion of Islam.
No going back now
written by Infidel and MP , January 17, 2013
Imran there is no turning back as you know the truth of Islam.

You need to come out stronger so that you are able to drive the nail harder down the Islams coffin.
Beating Islam: difficult but not impossible
written by Imran - Firasat , January 17, 2013
First of all I want to express my special thanks to Mr. Khan and all the readers of Islam watch for supporting me in very difficult moments of my life.

Friends, It is difficult to beat Islam but not impossible. We must continue fighting against Islam, no matter what happens. The day we start fearing from problems and obstacles, we shall have to stop dreaming a world without Islam.

Battle against Islam needs sacrifices and hard work. I know that I am passing through a difficult situation but I was always ready for it. Muslims are hitting me back and I must stand strong to face them and win in order to set an example for our upcoming generation who will continue our mission against Islam and make us free.

Thanks a lot. IMRAN FIRASAT (Spain)
written by kope , January 17, 2013
read my blog how islam will win

Spain is violating Imran Firasat's Human Rights
written by Max , January 17, 2013
As a stateless person living in Spain, can he appeal to the European court of Human Rights? That might be another important step to shame the Spanish authorities. He has sufferred much, deserves all the support he can get.
to Kopi
written by Infidel and MP , January 17, 2013
Would you like to watch head and face covered muslims at the nude beach?
Kopi when will you become a human?
At least it doesnt cost to change the name cause Kopi = Monkey and you constantly behave like one
written by kope , January 17, 2013
i thought you hindo respect monkey god
written by fine , January 17, 2013
Hello Imran

I am so glad you wrote about your sad but courageous story, I wanted to tell you :

I never doubt you for one minute … and most readers did not too …

Except the Muslims .. are you surprised ? ..I'm not

Muslims here right a way sprang to action and brought stories condemning you, assuming the worst .. of course, why not !..you are nothing but an apostate, and if you are an apostate from Islam, you are automatically a criminal … a bad person …

Never mind evidence .. never mind innocent until proven guilty .

I was waiting for you to write about your story in your own words to clear any misconceptions … It was needed it here … I found, it is so easy for people to assume the worst before assuming anything good … is it human nature ? … may be… but I actually hate it .

Like you said .. we have to keep going and marsh on ..the on-slaught of bring out the truth of Islam has to be non stop … what you already done in that cause is a lot more of anyone can ask ..
Muslims cannot stop us … we freed our selves and tasted the freedom on the other side of the fence and it is wonderful … it is bitter sweet due .. but this how it is … and we have to accept the out come .

I read the Article and I still do not know what is going on with you, now … have you contacted other countries like Canada for refuge ? … I mean if Spain is running scared and trying to deport you, I hope you leave it and start anew somewhere else if possible .

Like MP said … there is turning back and I will add '' we do not want to go back .. right Imran ?

Take care and I which you all the best … and please keep us informed .

Your present situation in Spain
written by Just A Reader , January 17, 2013
I think your message is somewhat confusing and you may please try to think again what you have just said in your message. You mentioned that you have tried to show what "you believe is true about Mohammed" but that is not enough. You simply can not write about your belief. When you talk about a person who is so popular among his few billion followers, you should have given hard evidence, after all you are not writing a novel like Rushdie. You have not provided any evidence in your video and your message as well. May be you can revisit and correct your message. But once again without proof you can not say one single bad word about any one, even a corrupt political leader, forget about Mohammed. Lastly I admire your courage and I personally think you are honest to yourself and about your message but you need to furnish enough proof.
to Kopi the monki
written by Infidel and MP , January 17, 2013
1. I am not a hindu so you cant be a monkey god for me
2. Stop mastrubating yourself rectally.
3. If you look to the ground all you will see is dirt, however if you look up then you will see clear sky, what I want to say is all you see in western world is a few women nothing else. Western world is more then the little cut and paste you showed on your site and you dont have to go far in the muslim world i.e. go to bahrain, Dubai and lebnan where you will find all shades (tastes of alcohol and women) muslim included.
written by EYE , January 17, 2013
There is no place to tell whats right in this world.Muslims will always blindly accuse others rather than use their own brain to think whats true and false....just because quran says that doesn't mean its right...if allah can create all the living things on earth and space why he can create the quran and needs human to write the book?

Muslims killing non believers just because their're non believers not more than that......what will happen when everyone become muslims...will peace be achieved?everyone can live harmoniously?can the poverty gone?I doubt this will happen because just look at muslim majority countries.....most of the population even cannot provide decent meal for their family yet they will claim that if you convert to ISLAM you can find peace and better life....shit...shit...shit.
written by Only by telling the truth .......... , January 17, 2013


How about some truth
written by Semeru , January 17, 2013
#1 Imran did not arrive to Spain from Pakistan but from Bangkok via Germany. Where the Federal Office rejected their asylum application as "manifestly unfounded"


He moved to Spain as it would be easier to obtain refugee status, which was granted, not for anti jihad activity, but because of humanitarian reasons.

Anybody here who has any knowledge of Indonesia will find he story about his relationship with he so called Buddhist wife very strange, as it is extremely unlikey that an ethnic Indo/Chinese Buddhists would go to Pakistan, especially after her family had been murdered by muslims. In fact many Indo/Chinese fled Indonesia after the 1998 riots, but they fled to USA, Australia or Singapore.

Firasat did not start anti-jihad blogging until after he came back from Indonesia, after dumping his wife and three children there.

Imran firasat
written by abc , January 17, 2013
Hey Imran can I borrow your brain because I'm building XXXX Read my post and take a step back and think! All these people who you thank and mr khan are not your friends. Read your own story:
1. The Pakistani authorities wanted your testicles in a jar. You escaped and you won
2. The Indonesian authorities wanted your testicles in a jar. You escaped and you won.
3. Spain gave you refuge in good faith. They asked you to behave yourself, what did you do? Now they are letting you know how precarious your position is.
The only smart thing is that you have hired the cleverest islamophobe to help you in danny pipes.
What you need to do is take a step back. You have become the poster boy and therefore vulnerable. You need to get back to the shadows with your backers. You are not smart enough to do this yourself.
You need to stop listening to these idiots who encourage you to put yourself outhere.
You have to stop being the Bollywood boy.
What you need to do is keep your head down, raise your family, get a job and help the people around you. There is no glory in martyrdom in your cause.
Will mr khan and all these friends console your parents? Feed your family?
Imran firasat
written by abc , January 17, 2013
Hey Imran can I borrow your brain because I'm building XXXX Read my post and take a step back and think! All these people who you thank and mr khan are not your friends. Read your own story:
1. The Pakistani authorities wanted your testicles in a jar. You escaped and you won
2. The Indonesian authorities wanted your testicles in a jar. You escaped and you won.
3. Spain gave you refuge in good faith. They asked you to behave yourself, what did you do? Now they are letting you know how precarious your position is.
The only smart thing is that you have hired the cleverest islamophobe to help you in danny pipes.
What you need to do is take a step back. You have become the poster boy and therefore vulnerable. You need to get back to the shadows with your backers. You are not smart enough to do this yourself.
You need to stop listening to these idiots who encourage you to put yourself outhere.
You have to stop being the Bollywood boy.
What you need to do is keep your head down, raise your family, get a job and help the people around you. There is no glory in martyrdom in your cause.
Will mr khan and all these friends console your parents? Feed your family?
@ A reader
written by M A Khan, Editor , January 17, 2013
I hope you have some good understanding of freedom of expression, and of a writer's/artist's freedom to scrutinize a public figure. Have you seen that Jesus has been depicted as gay, or a married man?

Do you have any idea of how many people have called President Barrack Obama a Muslim?

Writers, scribe and artists should have the highest degree of freedom to scrutinize a public figure as popular as Muhammad.
Mr khan
written by abc , January 17, 2013
Are you going to release my message to Imran??
Since you are a firm believer in freedom of scrutiny!
To Muslims … A reader
written by fine , January 18, 2013
Either you are ignorant of your Quran and Sirat al rasool Muhammad, or you are trying to obfuscate, here …

Haven't you been reading ALL the evidence that is presented here about Muhammad which makes anyone a 100% sure that the thug- Mo was nothing but a criminal, a Pedophile, a mass killer … sick in head narcissist the world have ever seen …

So which is it ? … are an ignorant of Muhammad or are you the one to LI2 for Muhammad ?
written by abc , January 18, 2013
There is evidence to the contrary.
Are you lying or stupid?
written by fine , January 18, 2013
How many times we going to bring the same proves from the filth you called Quran and the rest of all the documented Islamic sources …

If you are going through your Islamic denials episodes again , it is not my business .. it is yours .

Your denials of the filth I call Islam, is really pathetic !!!

Do you think, just because you SAY Quran and hadeeth are wonderfully moral, they magically become true … ha ..ha

You can not read two sentences together in Quran, without finding some kind of ruthlessness of some kind …


I am welling to challenge you ABC … let us go one by one at a time and see … how many ruthless Ayas of Quran in contrast to the so called good ones .

Do you take that challenge .. Muslim ? … or you only all about empty insults ?

abc, Fine
written by Kaser , January 18, 2013
If a murderer helps a little old lady to cross the street, does it make him a good person?
If a child rapist gives food to needy children, does it invalidate his pedophilia?
If a slave owner and women abuser gives money to women's shelters, does it make him a defender of women's issues?

Just because there is evidence to the contrary does not nullify the proof we do have, in the Islamic scriptures, about the bloody warmongering slave-owning,rapist, child molester your scriptures clearly paint. And please abc, do not come and use context to explain these violent passages. Because surely the god-of-the-universe can send down scriptures for all humans, for all eternity without needing all of humanity to understand the context of your narcissistic prophet living in 7th century Arabia.

You are above insults. Fineliving is far from stupid, and I doubt very much she lies...
...lying is reserved for religious scriptures.
written by abc , January 18, 2013
Very good side step!
Not good enough unfortunately.
"If a murderer helps a little old lady to cross the street, does it make him a good person? "
Forget the second part of the sentance. Establish the first if possible.
As for insult then you misunderstand again.
" are an ignorant of Muhammad or are you the one to LI2 for Muhammad ?"
That is what Fineliving wrote to the above chap.
"Are you lying or stupid?"
Same sentiment just phrased differently by me.
written by abc , January 18, 2013
Accepted! Why not!
Since you want this and since you are a lady I suggest you take your best shot!
Mr khan
written by abc , January 18, 2013
That's two posts you have gobbled up. Please let them through!
Fineliving I accept!
written by fine , January 18, 2013
Good … short and sweet… OK ..

let us start with Al fatiha …

I will give you '' al Fatiha, as not that bad '' … B -

1 to 6 .. for you

I get.. ;'' 7 ''..for the word '' al magdobe alyhom and al dallian '' '' the people who are cursed by Allah [ Jews ] whom Allah would never give them blessings and the ones who are lost ''

That is "' evil'' and Allah shuold not be this vindictive … Allah should be better then that .

Agreed ?
written by abc , January 18, 2013
At least get the translation correct.
"Not (the path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray"

There is No mention of the word curse. Which would be?

According to commentaries it does apply to the Jews who do not observe Judaism and the Christians who do not observe the tenants of Jesus son of mary.
Reformist commentaries put Muslims in that category who do not follow Islam. Very few Jews follow the Torah and Muslims who do not follow Islam inherent the anger the Christians scripture got wrecked by Paul of tarsus are clearly misguided.
I see nothing wrong with that.
You have to better teacher!

written by abc , January 18, 2013
They were not the only ones:
The Quran mentions communities as well as individuals who received retribution such as the people of Noah (26:25), the People of Thamud (7:78; 11:61-68), the People of Lot (26:160-175), the People of Madyan (11:84-95), Ayka (26:176-191), Aad (11:59-60); 26:123-140), and Pharoah (3:11; 11:96-99); 20:78-80).
Noah, Saleh, Lot, Shuaib, H'ud preached tawheed (Islam) yet their nations perished.
written by abc , January 18, 2013
They were not the only ones:
The Quran mentions communities as well as individuals who received retribution such as the people of Noah (26:25), the People of Thamud (7:78; 11:61-68), the People of Lot (26:160-175), the People of Madyan (11:84-95), Ayka (26:176-191), Aad (11:59-60); 26:123-140), and Pharoah (3:11; 11:96-99); 20:78-80).
Noah, Saleh, Lot, Shuaib, H'ud all preached tawheed (islam) yet their nations were destroyed.
Pt 3
written by abc , January 18, 2013
It's a Shame you cannot connect the points and come to the correct conclusion.

written by fine , January 18, 2013
I am excluding the stolen stories from bible .. to make it easy ..

I will only weigh in….. the Good v the bad .

Surit 2 '' Al Baqara''

Is the most lethal in evilness and unfeeling against all non Muslim ,

1 to 5 …(D)

all about the believers and the things they going to get from Allah and if they believe in Allah … … bad it exclude all others .. that is not acceptable … non Muslims were created by him too .

2 / … 6 to 24 .. that is 20 ruthless Ayas in a row … takes … F ..F ..F … A God should not be involved with kind of bad

2/... 25 …just 1 … Good one .. promises of Janna … silly but Good

2/... 26 - 27 … bad ones .. Allah calls people who he '' did not inspire or gifted because * he choose to* '' Yahdihom '' .. he calls them '' al fasiqoon '' [ the immoral people '' That is evil ( F )

I will continue later

written by fine , January 18, 2013
That in your Islamic bias talk …

We have to stick to the words as is in Quran … it means Jews with '' no exculpation '' '' will be cursed or angered with.

[ because you do not Know Arabic '' magdobi '' comes as cursed too …I do not go by translation because I know it as I learn it . ]

If you accept to do that to Jews … I do not … people are people and Jews are people whether they observe their book or not … BTW ..allah did not specify so … 1/7 IS bad

written by abc , January 18, 2013
Before you march on. At least admit you were wrong on your first salvo. I need it in writing.
One by one, I will address your points.
written by fine , January 18, 2013
To do this correctly, Quran should be striped from back ground or context or anything like that

We are weigh in, the Good parts that inspire people, NOW against the bad that encourage people to fight and hate others NOW … because that is what is happening with the devout Muslims misfits who read Quran and implemented NOW without going back to how the ayas came at Muhammad's time .

You have to look as if an alien dropped on earth who do not know of Quran, who need to dicide decide if Quran is mostly Good or mostly bad …


OK !

So far :

Good : 7

bad : 27

So far it does not look good for Quran … sucks ..huh

written by fine , January 18, 2013
There is lag in posting …

I do not accept you consider 1/7 as good Aya … I agree '' magdobe alyhim '' can come as angered with, or cursed …still it is not good part .

It excludes people [ Jews ] … if you think that is good … then we have a problem on what is good and what is bad … we might be waisting our time ..

I thought you are going to be fair and abstract… put aside whether you are a Muslim or not … be abstract … I promise I will .

written by fine , January 18, 2013
Your posts just shown after they held … OK

Please do not confuse things by bringing other Ayas from all over the Quran in the mix .. stick with Aya by Aya in line, ..as it came in Quran .

We are at 2/ 27 ..at least I am … may be I am too fast for you, but as you know time is short .

Welldone, fineliving
written by Worldpeace , January 18, 2013
I am really impressed, fineliving. you are couragious, learned and prolific. Keep it up please.
written by fine , January 18, 2013
Let me clear few things as to why ..2/7 to 26 .. with the eccaption of 25 and 22 … are evil and vindictive and A No God should and would be involved in such ___ .

Take 2/7 :

'' Allah sealed their hearts and their hearing and their eyes with vail, for them waiting great torture '' … really ? … if Allah is doing the veiling how could he punish people who did not know of Allah's eivil doing ??? !! ''

what about 2/10 :

'' people who has sikness in their hearts Allah, ADDED to their sickness, to them * painful torture * for the lies they tell '' ….. again …. really … I know Allah is this evils but that much … instead of inspire them to good … he ADD TO the badness … nice !!!

Wnat about this one 2/17 :

'' Allah takes away the light of the fire they lit and leave them in darkness ,so they can not see , blind,deaf and dump '' …. again as if Allah is waiting for them to make mistakes and he just adds to their problems .. is that a God? … no, he is more humen then any of us .. flowed .

Look at this one :

'' Allah will make a mockery out of you [ as pay back ] … really ? … How humanistic ? God ? ..far from it .

Now this real Evil, the first time I read it … it made my skin crawl … It used give me nightmares shame on Muhammad of being this Evil ..

'' [ talking about a dare Allah is daring people , if they could bring versus as good as Allah's] If you could not do it, and you will never could , then fear the fire which it's FUEL going to be THE BODIES OF PEOPLE and stones it was got readied for the infidels [ llkafiron] ''

Is that Allah ? … he sound more like the devil him self !! .

Human Bodies for fuel of Jahannam for wanting to make visues like of Quran's … that is not good … that is bad and the few good ones DO NOT MAKE UP FOR THAT MUCH OF PURE EVIL .

I think we all could agree … the grade for this Ayas …. is big [ F ]

written by fine , January 18, 2013
Thanks … but I have to say fingers are worn .. haha

I decided to go through the whole Quran and bring forth the so called good parts v the bad parts in todays moral out look …

if we are to be asked to use the Quran TODAY … it has to pass the test for today's moral standers .

By eliminating the rapotion and the long stories and so called science jokes and such in Quran we strain it and see how many Viruses are Good and how many are bad .. and if the bad out weigh the good … it is no good for nothing let alone human mind .

Of course you know what is going to be the out come .. don't we ?
written by abc , January 18, 2013
Slow down, it's not a race. Let's get back to the original point. I have not finished yet.
According to you " maghdube" means curse.
Can you tell how many times it's used as a word for a curse!
The common word used is la'nat.
So the majority of the time when the word curse comes up it is used as la'nat not maghdube. It's the consensus of the translators that in the context of that verse its used as anger.
Secondly I have shown you it's not exclusive to Jews and Christians.
Thirdly it's easily provable that Jews at the time of Moses went back on their covanent using their scriptures. It's easily provable that the bible is corrupted from the time of Jesus son of Mary.
So it's not a hateful verse at all to say " may god guide me to path A instead of path B or C.
abc, Fine
written by Kaser , January 18, 2013
abc, Relative to your post above.

Do you not realize how completely ridiculous your explanation are to someone like me?
Do you realize how incompetent the Quran is? How completely alien it is to all non-Muslims ?
If a god's holy scriptures are so twisted that even arabic speaking humans cannot agree, what does it tell you about the whole book?
We are not talking about divine scriptures here abc, you know that. You are trying to polish turd.

Keep it up Fineliving, coming from an infidel like me, the arguments you put forth are ignored - in the eyes of Muslims, I simply don't understand.
BUT YOU - you were raised in this - and your arguments have A LOT MORE weight.
I truly enjoy reading your posts Fine, and I hope to have the chance to read them for a long time.
To abc
written by Archpagan , January 18, 2013
Beware, your testicles may be longing for Guantamano Bay.
written by abc , January 19, 2013
I could do with a holiday to see comrade fidel!
written by Kaser , January 19, 2013
Better hurry up abc, El Presidente is not feeling well, even though Cuba's medical system is top notch!
written by abc , January 19, 2013
I could always see comrade chavez?
D'oh he is not well too!
written by fine , January 19, 2013
You most be 10 years old … that why you think you have 90 year to go on in life time to finish this !!!

'' Magdub'' [ angered with ] … and '' malu'un '' [ cursed ] are used in the place of each other, sometimes in books and everyday speech …

I am still declaring 1/7 as evil, because of 2 words, '' Magdoob and daleen '' I did that because Your predigest ignorant Allah, EXCLUDED the people after they follows his books that HE brought to them according to Quran …. and their crime is to stick with a book they want and love .[ there is no proof that Quran was talking about Jews and Christians who do NOT fallow Bible or Torah as it came ..THAT IS AN ASSUMPTION … ABC do not put words in Allah's mouth …

Let us Stick with the words in Quran as it CAME … it is true I used the word [ Jews] in my criticism, I like to stay with what Allah said, not what Muslims added to explain what Allah WANT TO SAY . …. either we do that or I am not going to waist time with using explanation outside Quran .

The Old books of tasfeer which came from Syria that I have, DID include the word [ Jews ] only, after the word '' Al magdub alatmim '' and the word [ Christians nashara ] after '' nashara '' after '' al daleen '' [ the lost,] between brackets .

I have another translation book for Quran which used these words in explaining who '' Magdub '' people are '' the people who earned your [ Allah] wrath '' …. by SH Abdur Rahman Khan '' … and there are others which uses, the word I used '' Cursed '' … do you get I hope so ?


I still am declaring 1/ 7 … Evil because it EXCLUDE , ANY PEOPLE whom ever they are ….get it ?

Either you except that or we do not go on … I will keep on, combing the Quran as I was doing, posting the good v the bad in Quran in abstract way, striped from all human helpers … that is including words in brackets .

Words in Brakets are not included .

Agreed ?

written by fine , January 19, 2013
Before you have a fit I will say this :

If you Muslims go on quoting, THE GOOD PARTS OF QURAN without it' s contexts or how they came, WE HAVE THE SAME RIGHT QUOTING THE EVIL PARTS OF QURAN STRIPED FROM THE WHYS AND THE HOWS .

Like I said … I want to do this in an abstract way, as if Quran was in the hands of someone who never heard of Quran or Islam …ever .


proof is required
written by Yibel , January 20, 2013
abc, you state:
"Thirdly it's easily provable that Jews at the time of Moses went back on their covanent (sic) using their scriptures. It's easily provable that the bible is corrupted from the time of Jesus son of Mary. "

So, abc - PROVE IT!
written by abc , January 20, 2013
Ah the old time chestnut. Irrespective of how old I maybe, death befalls us all. It could be just around the corner. So I will go with taking time, there is no rushing on important matters.
You are a bag of contradictions, lets see if we cannot work it through.
So now you admit that maghdube in the context is anger and not curse. I will quote your above paragraph
'' Magdub'' [ angered with ] … and '' malu'un '' [ cursed ] are used in the place of each other, sometimes in books and everyday speech …"
Right now we getting somwhere.

2. " ABC do not put words in Allah's mouth" another great deflection after doing exactly what you told me not to. Tut tut tut.
Here is the transliteration in English
"1:7 the way of those whom you blessed; not of those who received anger, nor of the strayers"
Now if we go by your principle of looking at the words only and we do not apply context and meaning then the surah does not mention Jews or Christians full stop. So now you have no evidence to prove anything.
You cannot have it both ways where you can quote the words and tafsee and I can
only quote the words.

Look at what you write. Paragraph 4 you want to look at the words only
Paragraph 5 you start talking about some old Syrian tafseer.
Guess what I gave you quotations from a tafseer too.

You can keep your imaginary scorecard. For me you have not proved that surah one verse 7 is derogatory. This was your easy one remember.
written by abc , January 20, 2013
So let's catch up with moshe just after parting the red sea.
He takes his people (the jews) to the wilderness after witnessing this miracle and the death of the army of ancient egypyt. At this point they all believe. It's all there in the old testament.
So according to scripture Moses goes to mount Sinai to have a one to one with god. Comes back and tells the Jews of the news.
He then gets summoned back for 40 days this time, leaving Aaron in charge.
In the mean time what did the jews do?
Wait patiently for moshe? Prey and five thanks?
NO they created a golden calf and started worshipping it. Forgetting what the had witnessed in a short space of time. Were they about to incurr the wrath of god?
Indeed according to the old testament they were.
However moshe gets them out if it and smashes two tablets he had just recieved.
He has the golden calf ground down. He then gives his people another chance.
Those that stand by god on one side and other on another side.
Did he not have to kill 3000 men who did not believe.
Do you want the references chapter and verse too??
written by fine , January 20, 2013
I am not trying to have it both ways and you know it !!

If you think you are going to play with words with me through out … think again .

You are dallying and dragging your feet …. so you could avoid to look what is in front of you and confront your conscious as a human being …. also you want to get out of this hard task as I am gathering … it is very easy for me as I know Quran by heart inside out …

I repeat … Allah will be NOT a good Allah, if he exclude some people out of his grace if he think they did wrong … and shower others with love …

He could guide them and implore them to do good, instead without the threats because supposed to be is tolerant … but to through them out of his grace, like that is an insult,cruel pathetic and playing favorites ..and you know it.

'' magdobeen and dal'leen … they are his people who he claims he created .

1/7 IS AND WILL ALWYES BE EVIL ..it is discriminative … you say nothing wrong with it because you are biased and I not surprised …

If I am being fair and I say , there is good parts in Quran when i see them , I expect you to say, there is BAD parts when YOU SEE THEM …

Let us put it to a vote … let us see what the readers going to say :

To everyone …. please vote '' yes'' it you think Q /1/7 is good for people … and '' No '' if you think it is NOT good

This is another translation done by '' dr, Ahmad Zidan '' printed in Egypt by Islamic printing & publishers in 1992 .

'' the way of those on whom you have endowed your grace, NOT the way of those who earn your wrath [ receive your anger ''this to make you happy Abc '' ] , nor of those who go astray. "'

Vote please so we could go on

I am trying being p

close, abc, but no cigar
written by Yibel , January 20, 2013
Yes, "It's all there in the old testament." But, NO surprise that you are SOOOO
unfamiliar with the Bible, abc.

So, let's catch up with Moshe/Moses just after parting the REED SEA (not red sea) shall we!
Moses takes his people, THE ISRAELITES (THERE WERE NO PEOPLE KNOWN AS THE JEWS UNTIL NEARLY 1000 YEARS LATER) to the wilderness after witnessing this miracle and the death of the army of THE PHARAOH.

"At this point they all believe" - WELL, OBVIOUSLY NOT!!!

When Moses returns from visiting with YHVH up on the mountain, he finds SOME of the people worshipping a golden calf (Marduk, the solar calf). He asks for those who are for YHVH to join him. The tribe of Levite joins with Moses and what follows is a showdown between the Levites and the followers of Ba'al Marduk. The 3000 who were killed that day were the idol worshippers.

including the people whose descendants would later be called Jews - then joined the covenant with YHVH and went on to conquer the land of the Canaanites, et al.
The 3000 idol worshippers
written by Yibel , January 20, 2013
were killed by the Levites - one of the 12 tribes, the sons of Jacob. Note that those who worshipped the idol - the solar calf, Marduk - were now ALL DEAD. Now, here's the thing, abc. LEVITES are JEWS today, along with the tribe of Judah, Benjamin, and part of Simeon. Also NOTE that nowhere in ANY of this story is the name Allah mentioned. NONE of these people were Muslims - well, except maybe the 3000 golden calf worshippers who were killed.

Muhammad included the worship of Marduk (see surah 96, al 'Alaq, The Clot) in his new religion - Submit, or Else - Islam. Marduk was the Babylonian god who created mankind from clots of blood. His son Nabu taught man how to write. And Malik - the Babylonian god of fire is Islam's Keeper of Hell - along with his 19 demons.

Muhammad was illiterate. When his stories didn't match up with Jewish history, or Christianity for that matter, he had to get rid of both Jews and Christians - or be found out for the fake he was. The rest is a long, bloody history of rape, pillage, enslavement and murder by his ravaging, maniac tribe of hyenas and jackals.
written by abc , January 20, 2013
I'm not playing with words. I am just shining a light on your diplicatous statements and how you weave them.
Delaying and dragging my feet? You have not proved a single point yet. We are here stuck on your easy one.
Firstly god has sovereignty over all things.
Secondly those people were warned. Can they deny that a line of propheerects scripture were sent to them to help correct their ways? Even after the warnings god is deals with them justice. Don't you study scripture?
So maghdube and daleen are absolutely spot on acceptable.
If you are struggling with your easily one, I'm shocked. For someone who makes claims of expertise to know nothing thus far.

This isn't a democracy and let tweedle dum and tweedle dee decide.
You are posting on an Islam hate site. What do you think the readers and posters are going to say???thats a straight no brainier. I'm sure you will enjoy your hollow praise.

Yes just
written by abc , January 20, 2013
Like YHWH the Edomite god, partner of goddess ashera!
Let's not forget the last person in this unholy trinity ba'al!

English Translation by Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall: surah al ikhlas

Say: He is Allah, the One! [1] Allah, the eternally Besought of all! [2] He begetteth not nor is he begotten. [3] And there is none comparable unto Him. [4]
Fine, abc
written by Kaser , January 20, 2013
Obviously, Q 1:7 is evil.
Because it means Allah has favored some humans, essentially creating two groups - the good ones that Allah helps, and the bad ones Allah will punish.
So Allah is a god that favors some and punishes others instead of helping all.


(And by the way, so obviously written by humans wanting to create a "gang" mentality)...
written by abc , January 20, 2013
There you go!
Just like clockwork brother kaser stepped up and voted.

Yaaaay! How clever are you fine?
written by youcancallmeV , January 20, 2013
Hey abc, we never got around to having a chat about the Sana'a Manuscripts...the ones that prove that the Quran was altered and realtered over many versions.
written by fine , January 21, 2013
Thank you for voting ... I hope all readers do so we could get on with this .

Abc, cannot fathom the idea that any rational human being WILL side with humanity against discrimination and evil like what in Q 1/7 .anytime .

He thinks, the reason you called it evil because you are only being biased .. he shows that in his sarcasm .

This slow snail pace, Good v bad, debate in Quran with Abc, is getting boring ... I should have remembered that what is considered '' bad '' in a Muslims mind is NOT the same in our minds and if the basic human principles are lacking in the hearts of Muslims .

So far we know this about Abc : he condones discrimination against group of people because they do not listen to other group of people, and throw them out the grace of Allah is MORAL ACT .

I am still going to comb the Quran and show how many evil ayas v good ayas with or without abc .
It's a bit like
written by Betty , January 21, 2013
a immature person when it doesn't get it's way, I'll get you for that...so I vote Evil as s*it
written by fine , January 21, 2013
Right you are … Q 1/7 .. is nothing but punishment and revenge for refusing to comply.

Allah/ Muhammad, wants revenge on [ non compilers and we all know how they are ] … and, by God he will get it …

* He is still getting it ,using his zombi stooges like Muslims who for the life of them, cannt think beyond '' Allah akbar '' .

Thanks betty

the votes :

0 - yes [ good ]

2 - No [ no good ]

written by Kaser , January 21, 2013
Oh, abc knows I'm not biased.
Im a learned man. I know human crap when I see it.
The Quran is human crap. Its attempts at passing for divine fall short, waaaay short.

The ones that are biased are the Muslim apologists.
Their position is simple: Quran is perfect - so everything in the Quran is meant for good.

I think abc is a good person in his heart, but we squeeze him here and force him to defend his beloved Quran, so there is friction.
to fine
written by Yibel , January 21, 2013
my vote is Q 1:7 is evil. To help you with your evil vs. good ayas, here are the Quran Surah 2, The Cow's MOST evil/bad sayings:

Don’t bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 6
Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 10
A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 24
Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 39, 90
For disbelievers is a painful doom. 104
For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 114
Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 126
The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 162
They will not emerge from the Fire. 167
Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 174
How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 175
Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. 191
War is ordained by Allah. 216
Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 217
Disbelievers worship false gods. They will burn forever in the Fire. 257
Allah does not guide disbelievers. 264
“Give us victory over the disbelieving folk.” 286

Note that it is Allah who has blinded the unbelievers and sickened their hearts in order to give them a painful doom. I leave it to abc to offset Muhammad's horrid, vile pronouncements with "good" verses from surah 2.
written by fine , January 21, 2013
Thank you, Yipel

If you read my past posts in the this thread you could see I reached Aya 27 in sura 2 .. but Abc got stuck on 1/7 and denied it's evilness, how could we go on when he does not KNOW what could be considered good v Bad. I am not surprised .. it is the core problem Muslims have in understanding other rational people thinking, who are not under the influence of Quran and Islam in whole .

Sura 2 , Al baqara is one of the bad ones, but not the worst .. surat Al NIsa takes that prize … Most of the Ayas is inhumane Sura burned a whole in my heart long ago … despise is a light wight word to describe my feeling for it … I will get to it soon enough.

Thank you for the vote and the help

0 : yes [ good ]

3 : No [ no good ]
Well done Imran
written by Manoj Kumar , January 21, 2013
thanks for giving face to my thinking your movie is based on the reality behind the terror conspiracy by Mohhamad against the world for gaining control.
Maybe after the good v evil
written by Betty , January 21, 2013
we can have a stupid v learned, that would be funny stuff, with science lol
written by abc , January 21, 2013
It's all good brother!
I come here by my own choice.
Some stuff makes me stop and look other stuff is just laughable!
written by Kaser , January 22, 2013
Does some of the stuff make you reconsider Islam's perfection?
Does it make you think that maybe - just maybe - Islam is indeed man-made?
Quran Surat al baqara #2
written by fine , January 23, 2013
I knew, No Muslim will keep up a debate about Good v bad, in Quran, and Abc proved to be not different … because the number of immoral/ bad and cruel, almost triple, the number of the good and moral …

The good were ** 44 ** [ that is including all the repetition ]

The bad and I mean … really bad, inhuman and unfair to say the least, were **123 ** ..of course there is the same threats of great torture [ azab azeem ]

Minus all the stories the taken shamelessly from the other religious books, and all the show offs Allah/ Muhammad wrote about of all his gifts to us, the # of ayas I post was left .


Women of that time should have gang up on Muhammad, took him and disposed of him for ever, so this Aya could have not seen the light , so it could not be used to humiliate Muslims women to this day .

The filthy Aya 2/230 says this :

'' So if a husband irrevocably divorces his wife [ to utter the word divorce three times by the

husband ] she will not be lawful to him to marry back again UNLESS * SHE CONSUMMATES



REMARRY …..etc ..

Allah must think women are nothing but Ping-Pong ball between 2 husbands

This Aya has so many wrongs, on sooo many levels, … it is hard to write about and stay calm to actually write go threw it …. Muhammad most have been a heartless sex menace , unfeeling monster to make women, marry a strange man .. any man to consummate and then divorce and marry the first man ….

when ones I question, the wisdom behind this travesty, of course the answer was '' to teach the woman a lesson and stop making trouble for her husband in the future '' … that was what I was told in warning , .. THIS IS HOW WOMEN ARE HONERD IN ISLAM … AS MUSLIMS USALY LIE AND SAY .

Women are nothing but a thing could be exchanged and used between 2 men as easily as exchanging ties .

The second humiliating Aya in Al baqara, is 2/282 the infamous 1 for 2 non sense ..one man's for 2 women's testimonies garbage .. .. this has been discussed in length before .

So far …Quran has :

50 … [ good ]

124 … [ bad ]

Not good …. for Quran, Islam, Allah and their creator Muhammad the women hater .
One more important thing to add
written by fine , January 23, 2013
There is absolutely no chance, that … ONE … I MEAN .ONE … BAD PARTS .. COULD OR SHOULD BE, ACCEPTED IN QURAN or any religious book, and if there IS one bad part .. then .. that is proof that Quran is man made, old and fallible book … a book museums should house only, out of reach of people's hands .

Purification should be demanded, when God asks for total devotion .
Malem !!!
written by Kaser , January 23, 2013
Please Malem, enlighten us and set Fineliving straight !!
Malem, help me - you said the Quran is full of Love and that Allah is the greatest communicator!

Why so many evil Ayas in the Divine, Holy, Perfect Quran ! Why the need for so many threats and Evil passages ??

I am so confused ("sob') :-(
Getting away with murder
written by Yibel , January 23, 2013
2:178-O ye who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the wpman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, this is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty.

This passage means that if a Muslim murders someone else's slave, then one of his slaves must be murdered to compensate for the first murdered slave. So another poor innocent slave dies, but not the murderer. The same thing happens when a woman is murdered. Another woman gets to die as well. However, murderers can get off scot-free if they pay blood money (i.e., a bribe).

Ibn Hibban recorded this in his Sahih. Qatadah said:
"Allah had mercy on this Ummah by giving them the Diyah which was not allowed for any nation before it. The People of the Torah (Jews) were allowed to either apply the penal code (for murder, i.e., execution) or to pardon the killer, but they were not allowed to take blood money. The People of the Injil (the Christians) were required to pardon the killer (but no Diyah was legislated). This Ummah (Muslims) is allowed to apply the penal code (execution) or to pardon and accept the blood money.''
And it is obligatory to murder unbelievers:
Qur'an 2:190 - Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah’s Word is made superior and Islam is propagated. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies as a hypocrite.
According to the qur'an
written by Yibel , January 23, 2013
"Noah, Saleh, Lot, Shuaib, H'ud preached tawheed (Islam) yet their nations perished. " Abc, the Biblical story of Noah does not mentioned that he preached anything to anyone, let alone the tawheed (Islam). He had a personal relationship with YHVH - NOT al-Ah.

The people of Sodom and the surrounding towns were NOT Lot's people. Lot was not a prophet to anyone - just a guy who happened to be living in Sodom because his flocks of sheep were grazing in the plain nearby. Also, these towns were not destroyed by angels throwing clay stones and flipping the town upside down, as per the Qur'an story: "...and We turned (the towns of Sodom) upside down and rained down on them stones of baked clay." (Q. 15:52) - They were destroyed by brimstone, a sulfurous material which burns easily.

And who the heck are Saleh, Shuaib, and H'ud - these guys have no Biblical parallel in either the Old or New Testaments. They only exist in the Qur'an. No one knows anything about them because the eternal word of Allah, the mighty Quran, really falls short in explaining about these so-called prophets. NO information at all, just the mere mention of their names and some places and people (Thamud, Madyan, Ayka, Aad) - that no one can identify.
written by abc , January 23, 2013
Sounds like you your gold standard just fell short.
written by abc , January 23, 2013
Those civilisations are pre bible. So I wouldn't have expected Paul or his tripartite god to know about them!
written by fine , January 23, 2013
Yes, the cruelties and unjustness of Quran, nothing else will surpass. a person have to be as cruel as Muhammad, to fully understand Quran and, still call him/ her self, a Muslim .

As you read 2/178, right away, you feel the sense of the need for revenge that burst out of it …

The belief of '' an eye for an eye '', came from Muhammad's Quran and, that IN TURN came from the tribal backward mentality in the desert of Arabia, NO WAY IN H*LL THIS CAME form and any merciful God …

Revenge is as strong in the mentality of Arabs today is as strong a belief, in Allah or the love muslims feel for Muhammad.

Revenge has to be taken from the other side , in case of killings or rape, to ** wash the shame of being weak enough to let it happen in the first place **

To go out and kill or rape * random INNOCENT * person from the other side, IS taking back HONOR that has been believed to be taken away … and killing innocents instead of catching the exact person, who done the crime, * IS ADDED CRUELTY TO SPREAD FEAR IN THE HEARTS OF THE OTHER SIDE .

That is the core reason, why we see Muslims today, bomb coffee shops, bread bakeries, residents buildings ..work places … full of innocence people from the enemy sides ..all to spread terror and fear .

Being born in this kind of mentality, I also did feel that way,[ no longer of course ] It is hard to admit but, I thought, it is justified because we were taught that the enemy, will have no problem killing our innocences … BECAUSE MUSLIMS THINK IT IS NORMAL TO THINK THAT WAY AFTER ALL …QURAN ALOWS IT so it is fine .

Muslim for muslim ..free for free .. slave for slave … oxymoron thinking has to be done to teach the other side to teach a lesson so not to do it again .

What Muhammad did not think in his evil brain is that '' eye for an eye '' idea does not STOP AT just ONE revenge taken back …no … as history witnessed, revenge, keeps going, on and on for hundreds of generations … why Muhammad, did not think of the complications of that belief ,

I do not know other then, to say he was an evil man who was a product of his time , but for a God to think, the same, is not acceptable or believable .

written by Kaser , January 24, 2013
Even if they predate the bible, since you believe "god" created them, surely he know about them no??
Surely Allah also knew about the Aztecs, the Mayans, the Japanese, ect... When he revealed the Quran to Mo.
He probably just ignored "revealing" the BULK of the human population because "context" did not warrant it.

It's CERTAINLY NOT because Mo did not know about them that they are not in the Quran...

Allah is most wise, all knowing, most benevolent and Merciful... (hee hee...)
predating the Bible
written by Yibel , January 24, 2013
The Bible begins with the big bang creation of the universe, abc. Are you claiming that Saleh, Shuaib, and H'ud - guys with no Biblical parallel in either the Old or New Testaments, guys who only exist in the Qur'an - actually existed before the universe was created?

Doesn't fit with the Qur'an stories! Muhammad seemed to think that the people he was speaking to - the Arabs of Makkah - knew all about these guys and their tribes, towns, etc. - more like these stories of destruction were local legends.

Which they were!, the tomb of H'ud is in southern Yemen and Aad was a town in Yemen that was washed away when a great dam broke about 50 years before Muhammad was born. Thamud might possibly be Petra (located in present day Jordan) - an important city on the old caravan trade route that was abandoned when the Romans took over the spice trade and began shipping the spices up the Red Sea - eliminating the need for the caravan trade. However, no one knows for sure because the Qur'an is so vague.

Muhammad also included names of people - claiming they were prophets - but who never were prophets at all, such as Isma'il, Harun (Aaron), Lut (Lot), Daud (David), and Solomon (Suleyman). Al-Ah even had a hard time remembering names - Dhul
-Kifl (Lord of Kifl), Dhul-Nun (Lord of Fish), Dhul-Qarnayn (Lord of Two Horns). Come on! How hard can it be for mighty gawd to get their names right? Especially when they were supposed to be ITS main guys!
surah one, Al-Fatihah, the opening
written by Yibel , January 24, 2013
The following quote is from "interpretation of the Meanings of the Noble Quran" by Dr. Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilal and Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khanz:
"Narrated Adi bin Hatim: I asked Allah's Messenger about the Statement of Allah -- 'not the way of those who earned Your Anger' -- he replied, 'They are the Jews.' and 'nor of those who went astray' -- he replied, 'The Christians, and they are the ones who went astray.' (Sources given: at-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud)

The phrase ‘those who have incurred your wrath” comes from Surah 2:61 which says:
"Shame and misery were stamped upon [the Israelites] and they incurred the wrath of Allah; because they disbelieved Allah’s signs and slew His prophets unjustly; because they were rebels and transgressors."

The phrase “those who have gone astray” comes from Surah 4:44 which says:
"Consider those to whom a portion of the Scriptures was given (i.e., Christians). They purchase error for themselves and wish to see you go astray."

So the only supplication in the standard Muslim prayer is asking Allah to keep the Muslim from the path of the Jews and Christians. This prayer is recited 17 times a day by devout Muslims.
Surah 3 .. Al Imran verdict
written by fine , January 25, 2013
This Sura fails miserably in the context of "" Good v bad "" .

Of anyone surprised ? ...after all… Surat al Imran is written in Al medina where the thug Muhammad, have gotten a lot stronger by then with the help and he was already mad as H#ll at Christens and jews who wanted to stay in their religion instead of converting to Islam .

This Sura contained more, bad Ayas then the Sura before it . the good ayas were only 11 … Ahhh Quran … what a joke !!

'' 11 '' … [ good Ayas ] … again with lots of repetition .

'' 119 '' … [ baaaad ayas ]

The number of good v bad in Quran up to now is this :

" 235 "… BAD

" 61 " … GOOD

Any doubt Allah was Muhammad and Muhammad was Allah ???

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