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Two confusing Hadiths about Sex and Islamic Burial

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Please read with me this Sahih Hadith from Bukhari (Book #23, Hadith #374):

Narrated Anas bin Malik: We were (in the funeral procession) of one of the daughters of the Prophet and he was sitting by the side of the grave. I saw his eyes shedding tears. He said, "Is there anyone among you who did not have sexual relations with his wife last night?" Abu Talha replied in the affirmative. And so the Prophet told him to get down in the grave. And so he got down in her grave.

While reading this hadith, one is left to wonders why Prophet Muhammad asked Abu Talha to get down in the grave, and why Muhammad asked about the sexual relations matter before that. One may think that Muhammad asked Abu Talha to go down in the grave to have sexual relations with a dead person.

However, our confusion is put to rest after reading another similar hadith but contains more information. Here it is from Bukhari (Book #23, Hadith #426):

Narrated Anas: We were in the funeral procession of the daughter of Allah's Apostle and Allah's Apostle was sitting near the grave and I saw his eyes full of tears. He said, "Is there anyone amongst you who did not have sexual relations with his wife last night?" Abu Talha replied in the affirmative. And so Allah's Apostle told him to get down in her grave and he got down in her grave and buried her.

Now the story seems at first instant to be complete. Why did Abu Talha go down in the grave? And the answer is "in order to bury the dead person". A slab of fresh air hits the neighborhood, and our confusion about those two hadiths is gone. Or does it?

Let us review what happens in a gravesite: the dead person is lowered in his/her grave. Someone may go down in the grave to adjust the position of the deceased person. But to bury that person, one has to be out of the grave. This will allow dirt to be poured on the dead person from above the grave, and not while in the grave.

Please re-read the above two hadiths again, and you’ll see the problem. So, it seems that the phrase "and buried her" in the second hadith was a modification done at a much later time, a time when asking someone to go down in the grave if their sexual encounter with their wives was not very recent became an unacceptable social behavior.

It is evident that Abu Talha performed something else in the grave; something other than "burying".

What is it that he performed? I have no answer to that question. However, it must have been related, in some way, to him not having sexual relations the previous night. Maybe some other hadiths can give us a clue. As for now, I have no answer to this question. Does anyone amongst the readers?

Comments (27)Add Comment
0
Ibn Kammona … I do not think so... and here is why …
written by fineliving56 , June 01, 2012
Hello

First I would like to thank you for all your informative and excellent Articles.
Since I left islam … clear truth all I am intracted in … the lies that Muslims have told me all my live I am sick of …so here is the truth even when it helps to make Islam look not as bad as the article suggesting .

Here it is …

Although I might understand the confusion about the question of Muhammad motive of asking a man if weather he had slept with his wife or not, the night before in order for the men to be able to down to open grave, I Have to say … it is not about sex with dead daughter .. I am very sure

And here is why I think that …

I know Muslims are obsessive with be [ Najas ] means literally, feces and also means as '' the contaminated with many things that makes them loose their ablution [ wudu] …

[ I Sorry to be frank ]

The things that make Muslims loose ablution are :

Feces …

urin …..

semen and women discharge [ have sex ] …

blood …

passing gas …

sleep [ in fear to have unknowing discharge or gas ] …

And some Muslim crazies ...shaking hands with [not Meharamah ..women ] women who a Muslim man are allowed to marry but they are not married them .

So … because, all these reason that make a man loose cleanness to not able to prey … a man slept with a wife and did not wash the proper way [ pour water 7 time on effected dirty area while saying words from Quran ] will not be able to touch a clean body [ washed in the same proper way ] of a dead man or women in Islam.

So … that is way Muhammad asked if the men did not sleep with his wife the day before because, if he diid it means he is not clean and is NAJAS and that is why the man could not go down to the grave and bury the body of Muhammad's daughter

Beside … Muhammad was crying with tears down his face … why would be thinking about sex when the dead women was his own daughter .

I know the fake prophet Muhammad was sick man who should have been in a asylum for the mentally disturbed… but normally people do not think about sex with dead people when the dead is his daughter and he is crying for loosing her .

I know this because I have seen it when living their and most my Muslim family have died and I know a 100% a men how touches the dead has to have perfumed [ wudu ] to be able to do that .

Thanks .
0
VIVA TO ISLAM
written by abulxasan , June 02, 2012
YOU NEVER BEEN A MUSLIM.......LEARN THE ISLAM AND PLEASE CONVERT. IT IS GOOD FOR YOU
0
Ibn kammuna
written by Abc , June 02, 2012
So much for ex Muslims knowing stuff. You don't even know the etiquettes of burial.
Have you even been to a Muslim burial?
Just after death the body is placed on a flat clean surface. The legs are tied together at the ankles with a cloth as sometimes at the kness too. The arms are place by the side of the body withe palms facing down. The mouth is emptied and eyes closed. A cloth is then tied around the so the jaw stays aligned with the face.
The dead person is still warm when all that happens. Tr a clean sheet is placed over the body. Then all the running around starts, get a death certificate, arrange for the body to be washed, arrange for the grave to be prepared.
0
Ibn kammuna
written by Abc , June 02, 2012
Once the body has been washed and placed in the burial clothes. 3 cloths for men, 5 for women. The ankles, knee and head are tied again with a cloth. The body is then taken for funeral prayers. The grave is checked for size, if there are any rocks or uneven surfaces then they are removed and corrected or overnight rain water etc.
The body is placed and a live person will go in to cut the ankle a knee cloth, the face is moved to the direction of quibla. Then the grave is closed by the live person. Then they get out and earth is poured on top.
So it is normal for a live person to be in the grave at the same time as the deceased.
0
Ibn kammuna
written by Abc , June 02, 2012
The person who is handling the deceased must be in a state of wudu.
Not in a state of janabat!
That is basics 101 stuff. You don't know this but you want to argue the finer points of theology.
Shocking!!!
0
a visit by
written by 1proudkaffur4life , June 02, 2012
Hopefully they leave enough room for the two visiting Angels to have their "chat" with the "DEAD" who according to the "Islamic" tradition could be nothing other then a zombie!

Besides one does not really have to know some men-made traditions which could very well be established long after the lice-ridden profeet MuahhamMAD croaked his last, to be able to discuss a foolish religion like Isam

But please explain the finer theological implication of jinns being pelted with stars and thereby driven from heaven...
0
P kaffir
written by Abc , June 02, 2012
written by 1proudkaffur4life , May 26, 2012
Yeah sure ABC. A living man would make sure that the grave was "right" so that a DEAD body which does NOT feel anything anymore will be comfortable! You must be really desperate to put forward such a insane "explanation". :-)

Still hold the above opinion ya clown!!
You're a joke!
0
Burial preparations and Mo
written by Guy Macher , June 02, 2012
If ABC is telling the truth, it sure makes Mo's sexual encounter with Fatima look even worse. Sure a horny Muslim barrow like Mo might pull up the burka and tup the still warm corpse because he has no self-control but to unwind five cloths to commit necromancy is a sign of deep mental and spiritual sickness.

The more I learn about Mo, the less I like him.
0
abc
written by 1proudkaffur4life , June 02, 2012
Excuse me ABC but MY person is NOT the issue here. Your FOOLISH religion is!


From the site you told me to read TWICE :-)

And when I REALLY read it to the END (did you read it?) I found this GEM:

[...]

Appendix 1
Rasulullah said, 'When a person is buried and the people go away, two angels approach the deceased and ask three questions,
a) Who is your lord?
^^^^^^^^^HEARING
b) What is your religion? and
c) Who is he (Rasulullah )?.
A believer will answer
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ SPEAKING
all three questions and he will be honored with the clothing of Jannah. The window of Jannah will be opened for him and he will enjoy the sight of Jannah.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^SEEING

On the contrary, a disbeliever will express regret at not being able to answer the questions. Upon that, an angel who is blind and deaf is appointed to punish him. Blind so that the angel does not see the punishment and feel mercy and deaf so that the punishment is not heard. The hammer used to punish a disbeliever is so heavy that it can reduce a mountain to dust. The disbeliever screams with pain and every creation can hear him besides human and Jinns.' (Mishkat)
^^^^^^^^and not to forget FEELING PAIN AND SCREAMING

[....]
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: Once the Prophet, while passing through one of the grave-yards of Medina or Mecca heard the voices of two persons who were being tortured in their graves.

Quote End]

Contrary to Muslims I think the above is MORE proof for the UTTERLY foolishness found in the ISLAMIC teachings.

You understand that what you have to REFUTE is NOT my opinion (which is just a logical conclusion when presented with these Hadiths) but that of YOUR fellow brothers of Faith and YOUR esteemed "scholars" who spew this rubbish... Looks to me the "JOKE" is on YOU for STILL holding on to Islam.

0
Thanks all who commented. More comments are welcome
written by Ibn- Kammuna , June 02, 2012
Thanks all for your input
Some of the commenters started giving judgement about me arguing. This is nonsense. In my article, I clearly said I have no answer. So, please take it easy folks.
As for a state of Wudu. This is not a convincing answer as Muhammad asked about his sex situation but not about passing gas or being in a state of wudu. This answer is not convincing to me. I still have no answer. Nor do I claim I have one.
Thank you all for your kind input. I really appreciate that from all of you.
Have a good day folks
0
Islam is pseudoscientific Scharlatanism!
written by Gnostic , June 02, 2012
Muslim pseudo-scholars do anything to pretend to be scientists and scholars. They want to show that they have authority and look like honourable people with wisdom. But this is all fake. The islamic ulema do not have any authority in any free environment. Nobody in the scientific world would accept such a nonsense that they have the key to Allah, what he wants and what he supposedly published to the world. Their methods like focussing on the quran and then the hadith in order to provide evidence is nothing but ridiculous.

They are establishing large scale institutions like islamic universities, islamic banks and even islamic republics but they cannot provide anything useful to the free and unbiased world. They have nothing, instead they are relying heavily on anything the free world provides to them. They could never survive without modern knowledge and food imported from western and other, non-muslim countries. In contrast, the free world does not need anything from the muslim world with only one exception: Oil!

Let us find a replacement for oil and islam is over for ever and ever!
0
...
written by Saif Ul-Haq , June 02, 2012
They are only confusing because you are stupid. Submit your minds and bodies to Allah Ta'la and he will reconcile your divergent passions. You will be free in your submission. Come to us oh ye kufr before it is too late.
0
MOHAMMED SAW IS A NECROPHILIA
written by INFIDEL , June 02, 2012
THIS IS NOT THE FIRS TIME MOHAMMED SAW HAS BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH SEX WITH A DEAD BODY . IF MY LOGIC SERVES MY RIGHT, MOHAMMED ACTUALLY HAD HAD SEX WITH A DEAD WOMAN BEFORE:
Hadith 34424 Kanezel omall -----

This is from a book called "Kanz Al Umal" (The Treasure of the Workers), in the chapter of "The issues of women", authored by Ali Ibn Husam Aldin, commonly known as Al-Mutaki Al-Hindi. He based his book on the hadiths and sayings listed in "Al-Jami Al-Saghir," written by Jalal ul-Din Al-Suyuti.

Narrated by Ibn Abbas:

"I (Muhammad) put on her my shirt that she may wear the clothes of heaven, and I SLEPT with her in her coffin (grave) that I may lessen the pressure of the grave. She was the best of Allah’s creatures to me after Abu Talib"… The prophet was referring to Fatima , the mother of Ali.

The Arabic scholar Demetrius explains : "The Arabic word used here for "slept" is "Id'tajat," and literally means "lay down" with her. It is often used to mean, "lay down to have sex." Muhammad is understood as saying that because he slept with her she has become like a wife to him so she will be considered like a "mother of the believers." This will supposedly prevent her from being tormented in the grave, since Muslims believed that as people wait for the Judgment Day they will be tormented in the grave. "Reduce the pressure" here means that the torment won't be as much because she is now a "mother of the believers" after Muhammad slept with her and "consummated" the union." ]
IBN KAMMUNA. IT IS CRYSTAL CLEAR MOHAMMED ORDER HIM TO HAVE SEX WITH A DEAD BODY
0
Infidull
written by Abc , June 02, 2012
It has been refuted as lies!

http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/false-allegation-of-muhammad-having-sx.html?m=1

So I suggest you try another debate from father butros's lies.
0
To Infidel and Saif ul Haq
written by Ibn.Kammuna , June 02, 2012
Saif Ul Haq, You are an ignorant person Sir. Some of my research in my areas of expertise is published in top tier world journals.
you do not know anything about me and called me stupid. You are Ignorant and rude.

Brother Infidel, thank you for your comment. I really appreciate that.
What you mentioned is true. However, the hadiths in Arabic about Muhammad sleeping with the dead is true. But the wording in Arabic is not really clear. my mother tongue is Arabic. The word Laid in Arabic could have two possible meanings. One involves sex. The other does not. This is really part of the puzzle here. I wish there are more hadiths that clarify what Muhammad did in the grave with Ali's mother and what Abu Talha did when Muhammad asked him to go in the grave. Saying he went down to bury her is not a good enough answer. People bury the dead after everyone is out of the grave. So, the question remains, why did muhammad ask about his sex situation before asking him to go down. You may be correct brother. I just don't see enough evidence to claim that. Who knows, maybe in the future we'll be able to find some Islamic resources to support what you said (or falsify such a claim).
Thank you much for your input.
Have a good day
0
@ Saif Ul-Haq
written by 1proudkaffur4life , June 02, 2012
Surely you can offer a bit more than just BLIND FAITH, in a MAN-MADE concept of a deity? Even if this splendid Universe had a "creator" this by no means can serve as "proof" that a concept created by humans is correct. Especially one concept laden with so MUCH FOOLISHNESS like Islam is in fact useless.

So, how do you explain the "punishment in the grave"?
0
Infidull
written by Abc , June 02, 2012
Complete refutation;

http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/false-allegation-of-muhammad-having-sx.html?m=1

0
To all readers
written by fineliving56 , June 02, 2012
This Muslim Saif UI- Hog … thinks we are the stupid, not him/her and all the Muslim … hahaha …

Isn't The stupid who thinks Muhammad is a true prophet ..while they know he commited pedophilia when he forced him self on a child under the disguise of marriage …

I geuss it eskape thier stupid minds that a prophet should have been better then that … a LOT BETTER THEN THAT … in fact islam fake prophet Muhammad behaved like a disgusting, two bit, animal …

As far as I am concerned … he is about the last person on this earth who could be close to be a prophet who, people, might considering him as a role model .
0
not etched into stone
written by 1proudkaffur4life , June 03, 2012
http://thefactsaboutislam.blog...ng-sx.html
[....] 
Appendix 4

Another example of Muhammad caring for people in the grave

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet once passed by two graves and said, "These two persons are being tortured not for a major sin (to avoid). One of them never saved himself from being soiled with his urine, while the other used to go about with calumnies(to make enmity between friends)."

Quote END]

Language is developing and changing over time - take f.e. the word "gay" in some songs sung by "Steeleye Span" it simply means to have fun or be merry, BUT not what it means today...to be inclined sexually to a same-sex partner. So who knows if "lay down" alone at one point in time actually MEANT to HAVE sexual relations, as your refutation only rests on the insistence of the meaning of a word.... And all you can offer is the opinion of one anonymous blogger who may or may NOT be a respected scholar. The burden of proof is on you to come with a bit more substantial...

This above Website points to this one:

http://www.albalagh.net/qa/punishment_in_grave.shtml

A.) According to the Aqaid (beliefs) of the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaah`, Adhaabul Qabr (punishment in the grave) is Haqq (true and established). (Sharhul Aqaid)
It (punishment of the grave) is proven from the Qur'an and Ahadith.
[...]

In one Hadith, two reasons have been cited for the punishment in the grave:
a) Not exercising precaution from the splashes of urine drops,
b) Gossiping.

Quote End]


So stoned-gawd allah punishes people because they "soiled" themselves with urine?
As I wrote before; to MuahamMAD the "dead" were not REALLY dead and any sexual encounters with a zombie like being could get this prophet really going...
0
Funny
written by non believer , June 04, 2012
It is really funny that an almighty (?)god(?)Allah punishes people for silly mistakes like not controlling urine. Passing gas, etc...Added to it he presents murderers with 72 virgins. He advises an aged Mo to have sex with a child, his own daughter in law and all this ONLY AFTER HIS FIRST WIFE (his Boss) DIED. More funny is his zombie followers not introspecting to find answers to these questions and abusing people who question. Any worthy book must pass all scrutiny and have answers to all questions. Muslims boast that Qur'an has all answers but can not answer MO's disciplined behavior before the death of his first wife and there after of a lecherous one.
0
a pretty good song
written by bundypig , June 08, 2012
Done by some clever folks, a dig at the fools of islam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=969P12o4lso
0
they finally caught malem
written by bundypig , June 08, 2012
picked up on cameras at a store, malem doing his thing with women.Two wives just aint enough for some perverts huh?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...skirt.html
0
a good follow up...
written by bundypig , June 09, 2012
to the story on malem, again, where does this stuff come from.These are zombie freaks with no morals whatsoever.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012...e-new.html
0
Khan turns a blind eye
written by Malem , June 10, 2012
Funny how the moderator turns a blind eye when certain people lash out with personal attacks. However Ill choose the high road and just ignore the blatant bias and immature behavior. Being that the above story and its is just that a story, and not fromthe koran it has nothing to do with islam, nice try
0
well now...
written by bundypig , June 10, 2012
Can you prove that is not you in the picture of the man looking up women's skirts? Why do you need two wives? Is it to prove you're a REAL man and not someone that's had a finger or two up their rear ends? Continue on your high road to hell, have a nice journey!!!
0
Thank you for showing me the true way
written by Mohammed , June 11, 2012
Thank you for posting this and for showing me the true way. If the Prophet (peace be upon him) was a false prophet you would have found a lot more than this. If he was a false Prophet why then the religion that he received from the creator is number one in the world now, growing as no other religion. Ask yourself one question: Did he ever build palaces or enjoyed the life of a king? When all of this started they offered him to be a king and he would have lived a life of luxury but he refused.
What you mentioned is really cheap. BTW it is wrong number of Hadith.
Thank you for showing me how after more than 1400 years and you still have no arguments.
0
Mohammed
written by Dwito , June 11, 2012
Thank you for posting this and for showing me the true way.

Why do you need to see the truth from a negative point of view?

Pl. come again with some positive point if you can.

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