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The Legends of Prophet Muhammad

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Recently, a film on the Prophet Muhammad was circulated in the Internet provoking furious ongoing protests in the Islamic world. Setting aside the Hollywoodian style of such blockbusters, let us see why it provokes a jiadist outrage in the non-Muslim world. Was Muhammad a true messenger of God or was it all a myth?

Nabuwat or the prophecy of Muhammad is one of the pillars, indeed, the foundation of Islam. It is a requisite for every Muslim to believe in the prophecy of Muhammad, namely Muhammad-AL-Rassul Allah (i.e. Muhammad is the messenger of Allah).

Information on Muhammad’s life are deduced from the Koran, the "Sirah" (biography of the Prophet), and some parts of the “Hadiths” (prophetic sayings and deeds), which are considered as "Sahih" (reliable). However, these give us sufficient information to pass a general judgment on the prophet of Islam and his alleged prophecy.

Nothing will be wrong if we suppose that Muhammad was a person with all social and cultural norms of his time. However, almost 100 "surahs" (chapters) of the Koran attempt to confirm the claim of his Nabuwat; and as if all these surahs were not enough, Islamic scholars have additionally narrated different sayings over different periods and circumstances to endorse the belief of his Nabuwat, although it was never proven or unquestionably accepted even by some famous Islamic scholars like Ibn Sina, Al-Farabi, and Ar-Razi.

Before the alleged Nabuwat, according to many resources, Muhammad was a successful caravan-businessman (Muhammad al-Amin), working for his elderly wealthy wife, Khadijah, as her caravan leader. Later on, as a self-appointed prophet in Mecca, he showed a messiah-like attitude of a sage, a poetic man with peculiar but harmless personality traits. After a rather unsuccessful prophetic career of 12 years in Mecca, his hometown, he moved to Medina in 622. And his migration to Medina, known as "Hijrat", turned out to have a far-reaching impact upon Islamic as well as world history. Like several alleged prophets of his time, his claim and fame of prophecy could've faded out right after his death in Mecca in the desert sands of Arabia. Even the subcontinent of Arabia, let alone the whole world, would not know anything about him. But that was not the case—thanks to the Hijrat.

In Medina, he declared that God had sent him to guide mankind till the Day of Judgment, and turned Medina into his military enclave for realising his so-called prophetic ambition through the force of arms. As a “prophet of swords” of Allah, he suddenly turned to realising his very personal ambitions; and he misused the alleged divine commands, supposedly from Allah, and the existing traditional norms of society to that end. He even went so far to violate ethical norms of his own religion to achieve his whims. As such, he had the privilege of having more wives than was permitted under his own Islamic laws. He even had the controversial right to marry his daughter-in-law, Zainab, deemed as incest in Arab social ethics at the time; and he forced his adopted son, Zaid, to divorce her, so that he could marry her. As a husband, he had the advantage to arbitrarily treat his wives as he liked.

Portraying Allah as a male tyrant, Muhammad demanded absolute and unquestioned servitude; he kept threatening his adherents with dire consequences if they don not fall in line. He propagated hate of all non-Muslims. In fact cruel barbarian and a merciless attitude of Allah reached to the point that Allah became an extra name (Jabar), a name characterising a megalomaniac, sadistic, and narcissist new Allah.

In his financial exploits, he allowed himself the right to rob caravans (for which other robbers would have been beheaded), or to impose humiliating "Jizya" (taxes) on "Dhimmis" (subjugated non-Muslim people living in Islam-ruled lands). He ordered the confiscation of lands and properties from "Dhimmis", his enemies, as he wished. He openly claimed that, "the spoils of war, including the widows of killed enemies, were made lawful unto Muslims" and made quite a profit in stolen goods and women to himself. He gave orders to murder many “infidels”.

According to Ali Dashti, who wanted to be an Islamic scholar but apostatised after reading about Muhammad’s life, while Muhammad surrounded Mecca in 630, a compromise of capitulation was achieved: Muhammad accepted a peaceful capitulation of Mecca in exchange for a general amnesty for the population, though excluding certain individuals like Ibn Abdullah, who was one of Muhammad's early companions and wrote down manuscripts of the Koran for him. He apostatised and fled Medina as Muhammad tried to kill him for having divulged the man-made origin of the Koran. Upon the capitulation of Mecca, he was ordered to be executed, but was saved by the lobbying of his foster brother Uthman, the prophet’s son-in-law.

Although Muhammad accepted the peace treaty, on his return from Mecca to Medina, he attacked a group of Bedouins en route and so the treaty was voided. Apologetic historians claim that people of Mecca received Muhammad with opened arms, as did the Persians to escape tyranny of the “despotic” Sassanids. Many similar sayings by scholars like those of Ali Dashti leave us evidences at hand to raise a simple but taboo question to how such a person could have divine communication, let alone receive Nabuwat from God.

Two dynasties of Islamic Golden Age, namely the Umayyads and Abbasids, established an Islamic empire containing a vast part of the-then known world, thanks to their jihadi swordsmen. Iran was one of their first preys, fallen during Caliph Omar, and it continued to be occupied under Othman, Ali, and several more caliphs. Massacred, enslaved, and long humiliated, Iran continued to be officially occupied by Muslims for two centuries, before falling into the hands of Iranian Muslim dynasties.

Today, thanks to the Islamic regime in Iran, Iranians are directly experiencing the rule of an Islamic state. Iranians have seen the acts of stoning, misogynistic crimes, amputations, corruption, trades of mafia sate, executions and persecution of people from inception of this regime to the recent barbaric repression due to the June rigged presidential election, all committed by the name of Islam, the people of Iran are becoming increasingly curious to find out the real version of Islam, and especially the historical process that turned Iran in such Islamic catastrophes. The people of Iran, as the 14-century-long victims of Islam, have now right to cast serious doubts on anything related to Islam, including its core pillar, the Nabuwat of Muhammad. Today an increasing section of Iranians cast doubt, or do not believe, in Muhammad’s Nabuwat.

Was Muhammad's "alleged" first rendezvous with Gabriel, the God's angel, at Mount Hira near Mecca, all about a fictitious tale? Is the concept of Nabuwat a big fraud? Does Nabuwat, the Muhammad's claim as a chosen emissary of a particular god "Allah", deserve absolute obeisance to all Islamic diktats? Was not Nabuwat a consequence of an eventual epileptic symptom of a self-appointed prophet? Did not this Nabuwat become a political justification of despotism under the garb of a religion / faith in some supernatural spook, which actually never existed? Iranians are in a situation to ask themselves such timely questions.

Comments (43)Add Comment
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written by Reed Wilson. , September 15, 2012
Dear Jahanshah Rashidian. You claim "Nabuwat or the prophecy of Muhammad is one of the pillars, indeed, the foundation of Islam. It is a requisite for every Muslim to believe in the prophecy of Muhammad, namely Muhammad-AL-Rassul Allah (i.e. Muhammad is the messenger of Allah)."

The above claim has no foundation. There are several messengers of Allah. No distinction among them. Allah says:

002:136 "Say: We believe in God and that which had been revealed to us, and that which was revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and that which was given to Moses and Jesus, and that which was given to the prophets from their Lord, we do not make any distinction (Arabic: Nufarriqu) between any of them, and to Him do we submit.

002:285 "The messenger believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers; they all believe in God and His angels and His books and His messengers; We make no difference (Arabic: Nufarriqu) between any of His messengers; and they say: We hear and obey, our Lord! Thy forgiveness (do we crave), and to Thee is the eventual course.

A true believer makes no distinctions between any messengers of God

003:084 " Say: "We believe in God, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction (Arabic: Nufarriqu) between one and another among them, and to God do we bow our will (in Islam)."

004:152 "And those who believe in God and His messengers and do not make a distinction (Arabic: yufarriqu) between any of them - God will grant them their rewards; and God is Forgiving, Merciful.

017:055 "And it is your Lord that knows best all beings that are in the heavens and on earth: We did bestow on some prophets more (and other) gifts than on others: and We gave to David (the gift of) the Psalms.

037:181 "And Peace on the messengers! No distinctions are made in this verse with regards messengers of God

038:045-048 "And commemorate Our Servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, possessors of Power and Vision. Surely We purified them for a pure quality; the keeping in mind of the (final) abode. And most surely they were with Us, of the elect, the best. And remember Ismail and Al-Yasha and Zulkifl; and they were all among the best."

Muslims, if they make distinction, are doing so at their own risk and cost.







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Mr Reed, there you go again.
written by Worldpeace , September 15, 2012
Mr Reed, Mr Jahanshah has not made any distinction about the so called prophets of Islam. Consult the article again, it says believe in the prophethood of Muhammed is core in Islam, and it is. In saying the kalimat hahaha, you pronounce the belief in the messengership of Muhammad and not that of any prophet. In the daily prayers, you pronounce it twice, in the athan and iqama, again without mentioning any of the prophets. Or maybe I misunderstood the gentleman.
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Proof your claim "Reed"
written by 1proudkaffur4life , September 15, 2012
Well Reed Wilson, when a god makes such claims, it must be easy to proof his existence. Or can you only offer "blind" faith in a MAN-MADE concept of a deity?

As to the "Pslams" given by your demented deity, please tell me WHICH ones are used by Muslims today? Or if Jesus is "equal" with your lice-ridden profeet how often do Muslims recite the "Lords prayer" you know the the prayer Jesus spoke? If he was a "prophet" like MuahaMAD why is his teachings being ignored by Muslims, and if it is not ignored, which of his words are followed by Muslims?
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written by Reed Wilson. , September 16, 2012
Worldpeace. You write "Mr Reed, Mr Jahanshah has not made any distinction about the so called prophets of Islam."

I need not consult again. I agree that Mr. Jahanshah has not made any distinction. He is telling that "Muhammad al rasoolullah" is requirement of every Muslim to pronounce. I considered it as distinction because why only Muhammad when all of them are Rasul allah.

"In the daily prayers, you pronounce it twice, in the athan and iqama, again without mentioning any of the prophets."

No. You did not misunderstand. They do pronounce and they are they who make distinction which is forbidden and which is not required.

For me 'la ilaha illallah' is enough. Even Muhammad will not say Muhammad al Rasulallah. There is subtle difference.

After saying 'la ilaha illah one may say any other reality like 'la ilaha illalah, Obama is US President'. But it is not a requirement.

I hope I could express what I wanted to say.
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written by Reed Wilson. , September 16, 2012
1proudkaffur4life . I think I didnt get you right. I was stating what Quran says by quoting translation of various Quranic verses.

If present day Muslim were doing something which is not prescribed, they are making mistake.

Please read elaboration in my post for Mr. Worldpeace above and reconstitute your question for me again.
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Muhammad is NOT a name
written by milad meah , September 16, 2012
Not (Muhammad al-Amin) but Ahmad bin Abdallah
Quran 61:6 says Ahmad
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attention
written by berq to reed , September 16, 2012
Reed you quote 2:136.We do not make any distinction between any of them.But in the same sura verse,253,says,Of those messengers some of whom we have caused to excell others and of whom there are some unto whom Allah spake, while some of them he exalted(above others) in degree:My question to you is this that Allah has made distiction between his prophts.How a muslim can believe and respect them all equally?I can give many references from Hadith but I know you did not belive in hadiths but one is sufficient.Muhammad said,The religious scholars of my Ummah are better than the prophts of bni- Isreal.Please reed do not play taqyya with kafirs saying and believing that you are Ahle-ul-Quran.(Quran believer only)
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written by Reed Wilson. , September 16, 2012
Dear berq. You write "My question to you is this that Allah has made distinction between his prophets.How a Muslim can believe and respect them all equally?

Yes 'berq' it is a question, a fallacious question. It calls for a longer answer. I will give here short.

We see around people who high in title, power and pelf but they are considered equal under the law.

The distinction can be on basis of deeds. That is bank secret. Only Allah knows our deeds. Allah knows both past and future. Their performance may vary.

We all asked to respect our parents. I will not compare my father with wealthy father of my friend who is more privileged.

Allah did not say that I exalted him on him and kept it secret. Allah will reward them on basis of what they sent ahead. et us read the verse

002:253 “We have made some of these messengers to excel the others among them are they to whom God spoke, and some of them He exalted by rank / degrees (Arabic: Darajatin); and We gave clear miracles to Jesus son of Mary, and strengthened him with the Holy spirit.
And if God had pleased, those after them would not have fought one with another after clear arguments had come to them, but they disagreed; so there were some of them who believed and others who denied; and if God had pleased they would not have fought one with another, but God brings about what He intends”

It is clear from this verse that some messengers excelled others and others were exalted in rank. However, apart from apostle Jesus who is mentioned by name, no other apostles of God is named. This includes apostle Muhammad.

You quote "The religious scholars of my Ummah are better than the prophets of bni- Isreal."

Absurd!! They say crap. Hadis, ahadith as a whole, were invented to counter Quran. On what basis Muhammad could say that? Did he know Ghaib and knowledge of future which Allah has clarified in Quran? Dont you see the 'religious scholars' of his Ummah and invariably of every ummah. Do they have any respect? Are they not living on our charities?

"Please reed do not play taqyya".

I was about to be grateful to you for considering me worthy of asking question, but you have shown me my size.:)

Thank you
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Reed Wilson
written by vbv , September 16, 2012
If belief in Muhamad was not the pillar of islam , why muslims goe berseck and absolutely destructive over a film that portrays the life of Muhamad that is not contradicting any of the facts that koran ,'sirah' and hadiths have revealed about the nature of this man?? If Muhamad falls , islam has no foundations to stand on. It will crumble under its own weight of contrdictions, intolerance and plain lies.
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written by Reed Wilson. , September 16, 2012
vbv. You write "If belief in Muhamad was not the pillar of islam...".

I dont know exactly how to answer you and what this kind of logic is. I can answer from Quran.

Muslims are required to declare to Allah إِيَّاكَ نَعْبُدُ وَإِيَّاكَ نَسْتَعِينُ Thee only we serve; to Thee alone we seek help. 1:5

Allah says in Quran that he ONLY is worthy of following 10:35.

What Muslims do is not my basis of argument.

Quran says that all apostles were muslims. Their followers were muslims. They all were before Muhammad. I didnt hear of any such 'pillar' through Quran.

"If Muhamad falls , islam has no foundations to stand on. It will crumble under its own weight of contradictions, intolerance and plain lies."

He is dead already. You may be knowing Quranic concept of death.

Those believe in pillar, they have chosen ignorance for them.

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Muslims Agressions
written by Gnostic , September 16, 2012
Muslims hate to watch the freedom of other people because they are forbidden to do so many things. The freedom not to pray, not fast, the freedom to enjoy so many things such as music, dancing, painting ...

They cannot stand the idea that other people enjoy the freedom they are not allowed to have. And while most other people live much better than muslims regarding wealth, they think that must be something satanic because they are unable to imagine that its islam that makes them poor, stupid and crazy.
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written by Al burag , September 16, 2012
Muhammad always interact with jinn.
While Yahwe is blame people who worship jin.
Saul is demonized, all of his life broken.
Jinn is able to repent and enter heaven,while gospel only for human.
Quran said salomons build temple with jinn's aid.
Islam is different with christian.
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To Reed
written by Scrutator , September 16, 2012
Reed,
You write
"A true believer makes no distinctions between any messengers of God"

Surely, this cannot be correct! Muhammad is described as being the "Seal of the Prophets", as well as the Last and the Greatest Messenger.

Elsewhere, Jesus et al have been described as being "the lesser prophets"
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Seal of the Prophets
written by Scrutator , September 16, 2012

In Pakistan, Muhammad being the "Seal of the Prophets" had divided the Ahmadiyyas/Qadianis from the other muslims. It resulted in brutal violence against the Ahmadiyyas {which continues to this day} and the latter were declared 'non-muslims'.

PS:- I am a humanist, NOT an ahmadiyya!
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Mohammed and twinity
written by D. Albert , September 16, 2012
Muslims are commanded to accept all the previous prophets, but it is imperative on them to acknowledge Mohammed as their final prophet and role model. Muslims don't realise that the importance they accord to Mohammed makes him almost an equal to Allah, as though Allah has a partner, a very concept which the Quran rails against again and again. Don't Allah and Mohammed make a twinity? If to Allah and Mohammed, the Quran which is considered to be eternal which means co-existent with Allah, is added, then we have an Islamic version of trinity.
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written by Reed Wilson. , September 16, 2012
Al burag "Jinn is able to repent and enter heaven,while gospel only for human."

Where is the Gospel?
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Sermons and Prayers
written by 1proudkaffur4life , September 16, 2012
Now "Reed Wilson" the question is rather easy, which of the Psalms or portions of them are being recited by Muslims in the daily prayers? Or the "Lord's Prayer " how often is it recited by a devout Muslims? If you do not know the "Lord's Prayer", or doe not even recite it then the question arises how much of the teachings if Jesus are being used by Muslims. This makes Jesus a prophet whose words are being ignored by Muslims. Who formulated the prayer Muslims speaks, or do you speak freely anything you want? For example portions of the Psalms are often set to music and sung in Church or spoken. The "Lord's Prayer" is spoken in each Mass once. People use it often to contemplate their relationship with their "god".
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to 1proudkaffur4life
written by Yibel , September 16, 2012
Muslims cannot say the Lord's Prayer because it begins with Our Father Who Art In Heaven. Muslims are slaves (abd) to Allah; they are not Sons. They can never be sons for Allah has no sons. IT neither begets nor is begotten.

The only passage in the Qur'an that is based on anything remotely Biblical is
Qur'an 5:32 - which was taken from the Talmud: "Because of that, we ordained for the children of Israel that if anyone killed a person, not in retaliation of murder, or (and) be spread mischief in the land, it would be as if he killed all mankind. And if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind."

Muslim apologists like Reed Wilson often use the above verse to show that Islam is not at all bloodthirsty. However, the following verse states:

The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom.” (5:33)

NOTHING of the teachings of Yah'shua/Jesus made it into Muhammad's book.
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written by Truth , September 17, 2012
Many muslim believe muhammad is holly,while he himself tell that he is unholly.
What a ridiculous.
at the end of his life muhammad said he is trully wrong,and asking for Jesus.
1.5 million of muslin not even realize the truth.
jinn always get "special page" in quran as i am totally sure its ispired the whole.
khadija should be bring to hira to test that spirit.
what a religion?Yahwe is accepted this unclean spirit?
No way!
spirit in the air will get punished, and stone even from sky or asteroid not to be worshiped.
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written by Reed Wilson. , September 17, 2012
1proudkaffur4life. " Now "Reed Wilson" the question is rather easy, which of the Psalms or portions of them are being recited by Muslims in the daily prayers?

Muslims are given a format of prayer or interaction with the lord in beginning of Quran


سْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ [١:١]
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
Master of the Day of Judgment
Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
Show us the straight way,
The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.

You may identify which of the Psalms or portions of them are covered in above. Do they have 'sustainer of worlds'?



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written by Reed Wilson. , September 17, 2012
1proudkaffur4life. Are a Christian? I spent bulk of my life as Christian. I like Christianity but Bible didnt impress me much. The Bible does not claim to be word of God. It is the priest who insists that it is. For me it is a human effort.

The human effort it may be but the humans responsible for Bible compilation were not having much intelligence and modern exposure and insight to match the requirement of all ages.

The Bible needed revision. It was revised and should be further revised to the extent of expurgating various portions.

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written by al-buraq , September 17, 2012
Well Reed,if you think circumambulating kaabah could delete your sin, do it writes on old testament?
since muslim believe their quran is the complete verse of bible.
There is hajj ritual before muhammad,so how to explain this ritual is different?
There is no al-aqsa mosque at yerusalem when muhammad get vision while his writer absolutely sure the journey.
The mosque is build by saladin.
I hope you can enter heaven accompany by prety angels,when when you have baby from angel,you may call midwife or doctor in heaven or jibril it self,he he
It is a myth only,just
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Reed Wilson = Silly Apologetics
written by De Doc , September 17, 2012
"In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
Master of the Day of Judgment
Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
Show us the straight way,
The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray."

Silly man! This has been known a long time that this was taken from Psalms 1, modified and then planted into this text we now known as Qu'ran. This book also takes a story from the apocryphal Infancy Gospel of Thomas (found in Q3:49 and 5:110; BTW why the constant repetition of the same story in Qu'ran?) where the young Jesus turns clay birds into living ones. As we know from writings of the early Christian leaders, the Infancy Gospel of Thomas dates from sometime in the 2nd - 3rd c CE, or roughly 400-500 yrs before the traditional dating of Islam.

So let us ask a question. What is more likely, that an illiterate Arab received intermittent messages from an angel relating to him these pre-existing writings OR that the writings were borrowed, adapted in Arabic and then compiled into Qu'ran long after the supposed time of the hypothetical Muhammad? Let us invoke Occam's Razor on this too. What is the simplest explanation?

You need to give up the silly apologetics. You can't claim to reject the Bible because of its known errors and contradictions (there are many) and then assert that Qu'ran is without any. That makes you a lair or a fool. I can't decide where you fall, but I will say this - your arguments are based on faith alone and never on facts. As such you need to admit it and stop claiming that Islam is more 'scientific'. The idea that your ridiculous religious book claims that clay avians can be turned into real flying animals is more than enough to expose the inherent silliness of Qu'ran.

I reiterate my challenge to you. Read "In Search of the Original Koran" (2008), M. Sfar (Amazon has an e-book version: http://www.amazon.com/In-Searc...inal+Koran). I have many other references on critique of Qu'ran too, if you are interested. Review the criticism of Qu'ran and then get back to me. Otherwise you forever label yourself as a closed minded Islam apologist who has no interest in any other view except that which Islamic orthodoxy has declared.
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Re: above
written by Gnostic , September 17, 2012
I am also pointing at the quotes from the Infancy Gospel of Thomas in the quran very often!
This apokryphal gospel was very well known during the time of Muhammad (even in Europe), but it did not make it into the bible because it was probably written too late. But what is so important here?

The importance is here that Jesus does things here only god is allowed toi do! And of course the original intention was to show that Jesus is equal to god!

Jesus creates birds from clay much like god in genesis and even in parts of the quran. We know that islam is strictly against the creating of images and even in recent times the Taleban destroyed buddhist sculptures for the same reason.

But why is Jesus, who is only a human according to the quran, allowed to create even living creatures from clay?

The reason is that the author of the quran did not understand the very mistake he made in his deeper meaning. And of course he also did not understand that this is only fiction with no real historic background.

Another proof that the quran was written by humans and not by an all knowing god!
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Reed Wilson
written by xyz , September 17, 2012

If all prophets are equal before Allah why he commanded ONLY Muhammad to prostrate ( sajda) many many times a day and not to any other prophet.?
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written by Reed Wilson. , September 17, 2012
al-buraq. You write " Well Reed,if you think circumambulating kaabah could delete your sin, do it writes on old testament?

I dont think. Where in Old Testament? May I tell you that I am not allowed entry in Masjid al Haram, since I carry my Christian name.
You ask "since muslim believe their quran is the complete verse of bible. There is hajj ritual before Muhammad,so how to explain this ritual is different?

I could not understand your question please.

"There is no al-aqsa mosque at yerusalem when muhammad get vision while his writer absolutely sure the journey. The mosque is build by saladin."

On what basis you are asking this? What vision? I think your curiosities are based on hadis. I agree with you that it is myth only.
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written by Reed Wilson. , September 17, 2012
xyz. You ask "If all prophets are equal before Allah why he commanded ONLY Muhammad to prostrate (sajda) many many times a day and not to any other prophet.?

I didnt say all equal. Allah asks us not to differentiate apostles. Muslims still do that and say Muhammad is chief of all of them with no proof.Where Muhammad asked to do sajda many many times? I may not know quite many things.

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written by Reed Wilson. , September 17, 2012
De Doc . I was answering 1proudkaffur4life questiton. " Now "Reed Wilson" the question is rather easy, which of the Psalms or portions of them are being recited by Muslims in the daily prayers?

I gave sura 1 translation and wrote "You may identify which of the Psalms or portions of them are covered in above. Do they have 'sustainer of worlds'?

Now you tell me it is all there in Psalms. I will not be surprised. I have been repeating that same message was given to all. You proved it. So relax.
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Reed Wilson
written by vbv , September 17, 2012
Then why do muslims go in a frenzy killing , destroying public properties whenever Muhamad is "blasphemed"? You cannot be critical of this charlatan nor can be critical of koran with all its contradictions and inanities. Muslims do not get very violent when you criticise Allah , but they go berseck with blind rage if you question the veracity of koran and go even wilder, madder with greater rage when you question the veracity, or the moral standing of Muhamad. Why is this so? People are critical of Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Noah, Yahweh, Budha, Krishna or Rama , but no one gets so lividly mad and destructive like the muslims when it comes to Muhamad or koran. Because of the sense of extreme insecurity that the banality and shallowness of islam will stand exposed otherwise ??? Perhaps muslims take offence to proect the book koran and its author Muhamad , since they very well know that Allah is just a figment of imagination that cannot protect either ??? After all All only gets his job done through his cronnies , who carry out murders, mayhem, destruction, forcible conversions,etc to further the cause of this dubious cult called 'islam'???
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written by Reed Wilson. , September 17, 2012
vbv. You write "Then why do muslims go in a frenzy killing , destroying public properties whenever Muhamad is "blasphemed"?

This question and other related questions in your post be posed to those Muslims. In my opinion it is because they are hadis followers and Muhammad worshipers. Spontaneously they get punishment. Their own people killed and production falls resulting unrest.

All such movements of reaction are sponsored by clergy who has no stakes.

I will always tell you what Quran says.
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Yible
written by fineliving56 , September 17, 2012
I lost the post you addressed me in so I am posting here, I hope you read it …

I like to thank you for your concern and your warning to refrain from posting under my real name … I understand your reasons perfectly … but knowing that does not help me push back the feelings that I have been having for long time now , which is self respect … self respect is important … By hiding my name I am succumbing to these violent Muslims ways .. I am playing their game .. I do not want to do that any more …. Intimidation does not work with me, it only increases my resolve .

I have consulted with my son, who, in turn, talked to cousin of mine [ who is a hidden ex Muslim ] and they said I should not, just like what you said … they said, I should think of my family …… so I will hold on for now …I do not want to be a sitting duck …. things might change, life always does .
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to fineliving56
written by Yibel , September 17, 2012
I understand your feelings, and the internal conflict. These are the times that try our souls. As you probably have guessed, I also post under a nom de plume (pen name), as do many others. The reason for this is the need to keep posting as long as possible in order to do the most to save humanity.

To the Muslim, killing the kuffar and the apostate is the ultimate good, so don't make it easy for them to accomplish their goal of getting those 72 virgins :)
Your posts are very important in this battle against evil - and Islam is the evil of our time. Exposing Islam for what it is will help many Muslims take the step out of the darkness of ignorance and into the light of reason.

True self-respect comes from being a decent human being. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. This is the sum of the Law and the prophets. May the Good Lord bless and keep you.

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@ Reed Wilson
written by 1proudkaffur4life , September 18, 2012
"Reed Wilson" from your first reply which is still up there:

[quote:

002:136 "Say: We believe in God and that which had been revealed to us, and that which was revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and that which was given to Moses and Jesus, and that which was given to the prophets from their Lord, we do not make any distinction (Arabic: Nufarriqu) between any of them, and to Him do we submit.

end quote]

Which implies without a doubt that HUGE PORTIONS of the Old Testament (f.e. 12 major and 6 minor "prophets" IIRC (if I remember correctly ) were given by YOUR stoned-gawd allah! Not to speak about the "laws" of Moses or the teachings of Jesus. When is the "sermon on the mount" by Jesus used as a "topic" in the mosque?

Now you tell me that the "Bible is the work of humans"?

And you typed:

[Quote:
The human effort it may be but the humans responsible for Bible compilation were not having much intelligence and modern exposure and insight to match the requirement of all ages.

The Bible needed revision. It was revised and should be further revised to the extent of expurgating various portions.

end quote]

You eagerly insist that the Bible was written by humans, yet also insist (in other posts) that the same CAN NOT be true for the Koran. How can you so be DARN SURE that ONLY THE BIBLE was changed by humans, and the Koran not? Just because you WISH it to be so? Yet over and over again we can see how Muslim claim that their "true Islam/Koran" is being FALSIFIED by "extremists". Many people in on-line forums claimed that the violence of the last few days have nothing to do with Islam. Again if this is true WHY DO people like you not clean up the mess within the ISLAMIC world FIRST and bring the TRUE ISLAM/KORAN to them!?

As to your question if I'm a "Christian" I do not discuss my person that much, because I'm not the issue. But yes I'll tell you this much. I grew up in a "traditional" Christian home, which simply means we did things (speaking the "Lords Prayer etc, etc) more or less out of "tradition" because we lived in this environment. Officially I left the Church in the mid 1970.....I apostatized so to speak and am still alive... :-)
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Bible, human endeavor.
written by Reed Wilson. , September 18, 2012
1proudkaffur4life. You ask when Quran says 'we believe what was given to Jesus' and 'Now you tell me that the "Bible is the work of humans"?

Yes this is a question. Bible was not given to any of the apostles mentioned there.

Pick a Bible. Any version. It will itself say that it is work of human. Authors of some chapters of Bible are still disputed. Scrolls of dead sea say that Bubke was lacking all that till recently and still those scrolls dont find a place in the Bible. Bible itself cries out that it is product human brain.Bibe was revised also and it is not revised by God. You can revise it.

This is not the occasion to point out mistakes in the Bible. Christian themselves are fully aware of its shortcomings.

I have been asking very sincerely about the whereabouts of the Gospel which Jesus referred in Mark. None told me including our scholarly Yibel (someone wrote here that he knows more Quran than he knows Bible). That Gospel is not the NT of the Bible.

A very senior poster of IW Mr. duh-swami has written enough on Bible and made Cement and Cerebrum123 virtually weep. Cerebrum preferred 1..2..3.. go. Clement comes back after long gaps; perhaps with the idea that we may forget what had happened.
0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , September 18, 2012
My dear 1proudkaffur4life. Would you kindly ignore my typing mistakes in my above post which I could make out after posting. I think you will get me. At one place I typed Bubke instead of Bible.
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Ignorant God/Allah
written by non believer , September 20, 2012
Why was this all knowing Abrahamic Yahweh/God/Allah ignorant about seers in other parts of the world that he did not reveal it to Abraham and co? Was he also a frog in the well?
0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , September 20, 2012
1proudkaffur4life. So are you convinced that the holy Bible is human endeavor?
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muslims are leader of all religion
written by zohaib , September 21, 2012
fouck you non muslims
i will kill you if any one say bad about my prophet
islam io pure than other religion
would you under stand pig mud
allah is great muhanmmad is great
0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , September 21, 2012
Zohaib. He is not your prophet. He is messenger of Allah for all humanity. He is like all other apostles.

Muslims have done greater crime and injustice to Muhamad that they ignored the message sent through Muhammad and made hadis a substitute of Quran.

Come again.
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Zohaib … the world is sick of you and Muslims like you
written by fineliving56 , September 22, 2012
You Muslims never learn … don't you ?

When you ever going to learn that threats DOSE NOT WORK … it only reinforce the intent to bring out the truth by criticizing Muhammad and his actions .

The more you do it the more going to be more cartoons,movies,articles and books criticizing Muhammad and Islam .

Deal with it … it will only going increase due TO the violence, your Muslims brothers are showing

The world does not care about your feeling any more .. the world is sick of your winning and screaming AND YOUR STRAPPED explosives ..

BtW … I hope you are NOT going to turn your written threats to actions … I hope you know exactly what happens to people who do that … don't you Muslim ?
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Reed Wilson
written by Yibel , September 22, 2012
Yah'shua/Jesus IS the Gospel/Good News, you moron... How many times do I have to type this???

The qur'an is full of CRAP... NO books were given to Yah'shua/Jesus...He was the Book!!!! The Word of G-d (THE BOOK) made flesh!!! The New Testament GOSPELS (GOOD NEWS) are about his life, his teachings, his sayings. He clarified and reiterated all that was in the Old Testament.

If you really want to know what was revealed to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the tribes (Israelites), and "that which was given to Moses and Jesus, and that which was given to the prophets from THEIR Lord (YHVH)," then READ THE BIBLE! Get your head out of that filthy, lying qur'an! It was invented by a pathological liar who called himself Muhammad/The Highly Praised One - the ultimate narcissistic parasite! Read the REAL WORD of the true G-d. You might, just might, clear out your brain of the cobwebs of that insane, gobbledee-gook.

The Bible WAS NOT revised! And NO ONE can revise it NOW either!!!
The Dead Sea Scrolls are the SAME as the current Old Testament of the Bible - (The New Testament part of the Bible wasn't written down yet when these scrolls were buried in caves near the Dead Sea, Israel - circa 70CE).

I certainly know a heck of a lot more about the Bible, the qur'an, and history than you do!!! But it wouldn't take much - as you, sir, are an ignoramous - a truly uneducated fool. It was Yah'shua who was the messenger for ALL humanity - NOT that creepy, murdering, sadistic pedophile Muhammad.
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...
written by Reed Wilson , September 23, 2012
Yibel. You write "Yah'shua/Jesus IS the Gospel/Good News, you moron... How many times do I have to type this???

You are being cranky. Who would believe this nonsense except you. Jesus did not say that.

"The qur'an is full of CRAP."

We were not discussing Quran.

You write "If you really want to know what was revealed to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the tribes (Israelites), and "that which was given to Moses and Jesus, and that which was given to the prophets from THEIR Lord (YHVH)," then READ THE BIBLE!

The Bible contains lot of rubbish like

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Was all that rubbish revealed to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the tribes (Israelites), and "that which was given to Moses and Jesus? What non sense you talk? Do you practice that?

You write "The Bible WAS NOT revised! And NO ONE can revise it NOW either!!!

Dont make yourself laghing stock. Bible itself says that. What is RSV?
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , September 23, 2012
Yibel. About Gospel of NT St. Luke writes, and it is the truth, that "Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught."

Who is this Theophilus? We know that Theophilus is the name or honorary title of the person to whom the Gospel of Luke and the Acts of the Apostles are addressed. Who is this person? Nobody knows. Isnt it conjecture?

St. Luke writes "With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning". Is this the inspiration?

Some Christians add so much to the truth that it becomes non serious. It is not friendship. It is stupidity.

St. Luke is a human. To err is human.

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