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Islamic Slavery, Part 10: Sex-Slavery -- Concubinage and Ghilman

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This is Part 9 of the chapter "Islamic Slavery" from M. A. Khan's book, "Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism and Slavery". The part discusses sexual exploitation of Islamic slaves -- namely female sex-slaves or concubines and sex-boys or Ghilman's for sodomy --- all for the enjoyment of male Muslims (Part 1Part 9). [warning erotic pictures inside]


SEX-SLAVERY & CONCUBINAGE

arab-muslim-sheikhs-examine-slave-for-sex
Arab Sheikh checking if she is perfect for sex

The female slaves worked as domestic maids and in the backyards, while the young and pretty ones also had to provide sex to their masters. Thus, they not only provided menial services and pleasure to masters, but also helped swell the Muslim populace through procreation. Sex-slavery is not a negligible institution in Islam; Allah has shown utmost seriousness about its practice by repeatedly reminding Muslims about it in the Quran. Prophet Muhammad himself had taken at least three slave-girls as his concubines, namely Juwairiya of Banu Mustaliq [Bukhari 3:46:717], Rayhana of Banu Qurayza, and Maria, sent by the Egyptian governor to pacify Muhammad after receiving his threatening letter. From his large share of captives, he also distributed slave-girls amongst his companions for keeping as concubines. In one instance, he gave Ali (his son-in-law and the fourth caliph), Uthman b. Affan (his son-in-law and the third caliph) and Omar ibn Khattab (his father-in-law and the second caliph) a slave-girl each.[1] In explaining the institution of slavery on the basis of Quranic verses 23:5–6, brilliant Islamic scholar Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi (d. 1979) wrote:

Two categories of women have been excluded from the general command of guarding the private parts: (a) wives, (b) women who are legally in one’s possession, i.e. slave-girls. Thus the verse [Quran 23:5–6] clearly lays down the law that one is allowed to have sexual relation with one’s slave-girl as with one’s wife, the basis being possession and not marriage. If marriage had been the condition, the slave-girl also would have been included among the wives, and there was no need to mention them separately.[2]

In agreement with the institution of sex-slavery in Islam and its above-mentioned purpose, the Hedayah states that the object of owning female slaves is ‘cohabitation and generation of children.[3] Accordingly, physical fitness, regular menstruation and absence of disabilities became major considerations in purchasing a female slave. According to Hedayah, odor in the mouth and armpit of a female slave is a defect—obviously because, she is meant for kissing, caressing and sleeping with; but the same does not matter in case of male slaves. The Hedayah further stipulates that when a female slave is shared by two masters, she becomes property of the one, who establishes sexual relationship with her with the consent of the other.[4] Fatwa-i-Alamgiri stipulates that if a purchased female slave has too large breasts, or too loose or wide vagina, the purchaser has the right to return her for a refund—obviously because, the owner cannot get maximum pleasure from sex with such a woman, as she is intended for. Similarly, the purchaser can return a slave on the basis of whether she is a virgin.[5]

These criteria for chosing or judging female slaves come from the time of Prophet Muhammad himself. He was in the habit of choosing the prettiest of captive women for himself. In Khaybar, he chose Safiyah, wife of Kinana, for himself, hearing that she was of exquisite beauty and worthy of himself only. He, thereby, deprived another Jihadi, who had obtained her initially.[6] In another example, after the Prophet had distributed the captured women of the Hawazin tribe among his Jihadi comrades, a deputation from the tribe came to him seeking the release of their women. He agreed to release them for six camels apiece. His disciple Uyayna bin Hisn refused to release a woman of some nobility, fallen in his share, expecting a higher price. To this, Zubayr Abu Surad, another companion of Muhammad, convinced Uyayna to let her go, because ‘her mouth was cold and her breast was flat; she could not concieve… and her milk was not rich.’ When Uyayna complained about this to Al-Aqra, another comrade of the Prophet, he persuaded Uyayna by saying: ‘By God, you did not take her as virgin in her prime nor even full-figured in her middle age![7]

Using the female slaves for sex—a norm and a widespread practice throughout the history of Islam—is clearly sanctioned in the Quran, the Sunnah and the Sharia. It has, therefore, received unabashed and overt approval of Islamic jurists, imams and scholars well into the modern age. Apart from the lure of booty, the greed for capturing the women for using as sex-slaves became a significant motivating factor for Muslim Jihadis to take part in holy wars since Muhammad’s time. According to Islamic laws, the slayer becomes the owner of the victim’s wife, children and properties. Sir William Muir thought that the sanction of the sex-slavery in Islam acted ‘as an inducement to fight in the hope of capturing the females who would then be lawful concubines as ‘that their right hand possessed.’’[8]

From Muhammad’s own practice of slave-concubinage, it flourished into a widely practised institution in later periods as captives became numerous. Islam puts no limit on the number of sex-slaves Muslim men can keep; ‘there is absolutely no limit to the number of slave girls with whom a Mohammedan may cohabit, and it is the consecration of this illimitable indulgence which so popularizes the Mohammedan religion amongst the uncivilized nations and so popularizes slavery in the Muslim religion,’ writes Thomas Hughes.[9] Accordingly, writes Lewis, ‘The slave women of every ethnic origin were acquired in great numbers to staff the harems of the Islamic world—as concubines or menials, the two functions not always clearly differentiated… Some were trained as performers—singers, dancers, and musicians.[10] Ronald Segal also affirms this in saying: ‘Female slaves were required in considerable numbers for musicians, singers and dancers—many more were bought as domestic workers and many were in demand as concubines. The harems of rulers could be enormous. The harem of Abd al-Rahman III (d. 961) in Cordoba contained over 6,000 concubines; and the one in the Fatimid palace in Cairo had twice as many.[11] Muslim rulers of India did not lag behind either; even enlightened Akbar had 5,000 women in his harem, while Jahangir and Shah Jahan had 5,000 to 6,000 each. In the eighteenth century, Sultan Moulay Ismail had 4,000 concubines in his harem.

islamic-harem-sex-slaves

Clearly, Muslim rulers—from Africa to Europe, from the Middle East to India—had accumulated sex-slaves in their thousands. In the heyday of Islam, court officials, nobles, high-ranking generals and provincial governors had dozens to hundreds and even thousands of slaves. Even the poor Muslim households or common shopkeepers used to have many slaves, as recorded by Muslim chroniclers. In general, the young female slaves in all households had to provide sex to their masters as demanded. It appears that capturing the women for keeping as concubines was a major focus of Islamic slave-hunting; because, for every male slave, two females were captured in Africa for transporting to the Muslim world. And for those transported by Europeans to the new world, there were two males for every female.

Niccolao Manucci, who lived in India during Emperor Aurangzeb’s reign, observed of the Muslim infatuation with women and sex that ‘all Mohammedans are fond of women, who are their principal relaxation and almost their only pleasure.[12] Dutchman Francisco Pelsaert, who visited India during Emperor Jahagir’s reign (1605-27), wrote of the sexual indulgence of Muslim rulers and noblemen in the harems that:

‘…each night the Amir visits a particular wife or mahal (quarter), receives a very warm welcome from his wife and from the slaves [girls], who dressed especially for the occasion… If it is the hot weather, they… rub his body with pounded sandalwood and rosewater. Fans are kept going steadily. Some of the slaves chafe the master’s hand and feet, some sit and sing, or play music and dance, or provide other recreation, the wife sitting near him all the time. Then if one of the pretty slave girls takes his fancy, he calls her and enjoys her, his wife not daring to show any signs of displeasure, but dissembling, though she will take it out on the slave girl later on.’[13]

However, the wife could never get rid of such beautiful slave-girls from the harem, because it was only in the power of the master to free her (Muslim women cannot own slaves).

Similarly Maria Ter Meetelen, a Dutch slave-girl of Moulay Ismail’s palace in Morocco, left an eyewitness account of the sultan’s sensual indulgence with his wives and concubines in the harem. She wrote: ‘‘I found myself in front of the sultan in his room, where he was lying with at least fifty women,’’ who ‘‘were painted on their faces and clothed like goddesses, extraordinarily beautiful, and each with her instrument.’’ Maria added: ‘‘…they played and sang, for it was a melody more lovely than anything I’d ever heard before.’’[14]

In sum, slave-concubinage—the most degrading and dehumanizing form of prostitution—became a prominent hallmark of Islamic tradition well into modern age. The Ottoman sultans maintained a harem full of women until the empire was dissolved in 1921. In the princely state of Bahawalpur in Sindh, first to be conquered by Muslim invaders—the last Nawab, who ruled until 1954 before its incorporation into Pakistan, ‘had more than three hundred and ninety women’ in his harem. The Nawab had become impotent early and used all kinds of tools to satisfy his great multitude of concubines and wives. When Pakistani army took over his palace, ‘they found a whole collection of dildos. About six hundred, some made of clays, some bought in England and battery-operated. The army dug a pit and buried these dildos.[15] The Arab kings till today maintain sizable harems of some kind.

___________________________


EUNUCHS AND GHILMAN

Sexual exploitation of slave-boys of Ghilman in Islam

Another extremely cruel, dehumanizing and degrading aspect of Islamic slavery was the large-scale castration of male captives. It has received little attention of critics and historians. Historically, castration did receive little opposition in the Muslim world well into the modern age. But Muslims normally engaged Jews or other non-Muslims to perform the operation on the argument that mutilation of human bodies was prohibited in Islam. (This is hypocritical in the least, since beheading of totally innocent people in large numbers has been a common practice right from the days of the Prophet, while amputation of hands and legs are divine Islamic punishment for certain crimes.) Yet, the employment of eunuchs is clearly sanctioned by Allah, as the Quran instructs Muslim women to cover their body and ornaments with cloaks except ‘to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women)…’ [Quran 24:31]. Prophet Muhammad had himself accepted a eunuch as gift, says a hadith, which has been excluded from canonical collections.[16]

Castrated males, normally young handsome boys, were in great demands amongst Muslim rulers and elites mainly for three reasons. First, Muslim harems and households used to have a few to thousands of wives and concubines. Naturally, most of these women were left sexually unsatisfied as well as jealous and indignant about sharing their husbands and masters with so many women. Keeping male slaves in such palaces and households was a cause of concern for the husband and master, because those sexually unsatisfied and often indignant women could be tempted into sexual contact with the male-slaves. Attraction of harem women to other men was rather common. For example, when Pellow, not a eunuch, was surprisingly placed as a harem-guard by Moulay Ismail upon a request from one of his favourite wives, his wives showed amorous interest in him. Aware of the consequence of such a tango if the sultan found out, ‘‘I thought it highly prudent to keep a very strict guard upon all my actions,’’ wrote Pellow.[17]

It was, therefore, safer for masters—particularly the rulers and high officials, who kept large harem—to keep eunuchs, instead of virile men, in their households and palaces. It is no wonder that the term harem originated from haram, meaning prohibited—more specifically, "out of bounds" (to unrelated men).

According to John Laffin, black slaves were generally castrated ‘based on the assumption that the blacks had an ungovernable sexual appetite.[18] From India to Africa, eunuchs were specifically engaged in guarding the royal harems. They kept tab on the passage of men and women in and out of the seraglio and spied for the ruler on the harem women about their behaviour, infidelity in particular. Eunuchs were needed in their thousands to look after huge harems, probably the largest royal department in medieval Islamic kingdoms.

Secondly, the castrated men, with no hope of a family or offspring to look forward to in their old age, were likely to show greater fidelity and devotion to the master in order to earn their favor and support when they grew old. The castrated slaves, devoid of sexual distractions, could also devote themselves exclusively to work relatively easily in the usually sexually-charged Islamic culture.

The third reason for the high demand for eunuchs was homosexual infatuation of many Muslim rulers, generals and nobles. Eunuchs, kept for carnal indulgence, also called ghilman, used to be handsome young boys. They used to wear ‘rich and attractive uniforms and often beautified and perfumed their bodies in effeminate fashion.’ The concept of ghilman comes from the following verses of the Quran, which describes heavenly male attendants (ghilman) in paradise:

  • ‘Round about them will serve, (devoted) to them, young male servants (handsome) as Pearls well-guarded.’ [Quran 52:24]
  • ‘There wait on them immortal youths, with bowls and ewers and a cup from a pure spring.’ [Quran 56:17–18]

Anwar Shaikh in his essay Islamic Morality describes ghilman as follows: ‘Paradise is the description of the luxurious surroundings dwelt in by Houris and Ghilman. Houris are the most beautiful ever-young virgins with wide, flexing eyes and swelling bosoms. Ghilman are the immortal young boys, pretty like pearls, clothed in green silk and brocade and embellished with bracelets of silver.[19] The concept of ghilman in Islam may have been prompted by the dominant culture of sodomy that existed amongst Arabs during Muhammad’s time as discussed already (see p. 174–75). Sodomy was also prevalent in Persia. According Hitti, ‘We read of ghilman in the reign of al-Rashid; but it was evidently the Caliph al-Amin, who, following Persian precedent, established in the Arab world the ghilman institution for the practice of sexual relations. A judge of whom there is record used four hundred such youths. Poets did not disdain to give public expression to their perverted passions and to address amorous pieces of their compositions to beardless young boys.[20]

Castration was not performed on the black captives alone, but on captives of all shades and races: be it the blacks of Africa, the browns of India, the yellows of Central Asia or the whites of Europe. In the Middle Ages, notes Segal, Prague and Verdun became castration centers for white eunuchs, while Kharazon near the Caspian Sea for Central Asian eunuchs. Islamic Spain was another center for producing white eunuchs. At the beginning of the tenth century, Caliph al-Muqtadir (r. 908–937) had assembled in the Baghdad palace some 11,000 eunuchs: 7,000 Blacks and 4,000 Whites (Greek).[21]

It is noted already that there was widespread castration of slaves in Bengal during Mughal Emperor Jahangir, which had become a widespread practice across India. It appears that since Bakhtiyar Khilji’s conquest of Bengal in 1205, it had become a leading source of enslavement and castration for supplying eunuchs. On his way back to Venice from Kublai Khan’s Court, Marco Polo visited India in the late thirteenth century; he found Bengal as a major source of eunuchs. Duarte Barbosa in the late sultanate period (1206–1526) and Francois Pyrard in the Mughal period (1526–1799) also found Bengal as the leading supplier of castrated slaves. Ain-i-Akbari (compiled 1590s) also affirms the same.[22] Some 22,000 individuals were emasculated in 1659 in Golkunda during Aurangzeb. Said Khan Chaghtai of Jahangir’s reign owned 1,200 eunuchs. Even kind-hearted Akbar employed eunuchs in large numbers. According to Ain-i-Akbari, Akbar’s harem ‘contained 5,000 ladies, each of whom had separate apartments… watched in successive circles by female guards, eunuchs, Rajputs and the porters at the gates…[23]

Sultan Alauddin Khilji had engaged 50,000 young boys in his personal services, while Muhammad Tughlaq had 20,000 and Firoz Tughlaq 40,000. Many, if not most, of these slave-boys were likely castrated. Even Malik Kafur, Alauddin’s famous commander, was a eunuch. Khusrau Khan, Sultan Kutbuddin Mubarak Khilji’s favorite commander, who killed the sultan in 1320 and occupied the throne briefly, was a eunuch too. Medieval Muslim historians—namely Muhammad Ferishtah, Khondamir, Minhaj Siraj and Ziauddin Barani et al., have recorded stories of infatuation of other illustrious sultans, namely Mahmud Ghazni, Qutbuddin Aibak and Sikandar Lodi—for handsome young boys. Sikandar Lodi had once boasted, ‘If I order one of my slaves to be seated in a palanquin,[24] the entire body of nobility would carry him on their shoulders at my bidding.[25] Sultan Mahmud had infatuation toward charming Tilak the Hindu, his favorite commander.[26]

Castration of male captives was performed on an unprecedented scale in order to meet the demand of eunuchs in the Muslim world. It was Muslims, who inaugurated the practice of castrating male slaves on a grand scale. Most of the male slaves of the Muslim world—particularly, those captured in Africa—were castrated. While eleven million African slaves were transported to the New World (West Indies and Americas) during the 350-year trans-Atlantic slave-trade, a larger number of them ended up in the Middle East, North Africa, Central Asia, India, Islamic Spain and Ottoman Europe during the thirteen centuries of Islamic domination. However, if compared the Diaspora left by black slaves in the New World with that in the Islamic world, it becomes evident that the overwhelming majority of the black slaves of the Islamic world were castrated; therefore, they failed to leave a notable Diaspora behind.

The fate of the millions of European, Indian, Central Asian and Middle Eastern infidels—reduced to wearing the shackles of Islamic slavery—might not have been much different. Marco Polo (1280s) and Duarte Barbosa (1500s) witnessed large-scale castrations in India; the same was occurring in the reign of Abkar (d. 1605), Jahangir (d. 1628) and Aurangzeb (d. 1707). Castration, therefore, was a common practice in India throughout the Muslim rule. It might have contributed to some extent to the decrease in India’s population from about 200 million in 1000 CE to 170 million in 1500 CE (discussed earlier).


[1]. Ibn Ishaq, p. 592–93; Al-Tabari (1988 imprint) The History of Al-Tabari, State University of New York Press, New York, Vol. IX, p. 29

[2]. Maududi SAA, The Meaning of the Quran, Islamic Publications, Lahore, Vol. III, p. 241, note 7

[3]. Lal (1994), p. 142

[4]. Ibid, p. 145,147

[5]. Ibid, p. 145

[6]. Ibn Ishaq, p. 511; Muir W (1894) The Life of Mahomet, Voice of India, New Delhi, p. 377

[7]. Ibn Ishaq, p. 593

[8]. Muir, p. 74, notes; also Quran 4:3

[9]. Huges, p. 600

[10]. Lewis (2000), p. 209

[11]. Segal, p. 39

[12]. Manucci N (1906) Storia do Mogor, trs. Irvine W, Hohn Murray, London, Vol. II, p. 240

[13]. Lal (1994), p. 169–70

[14]. Milton, p. 120

[15]. Naipaul VS (1998) Beyond Belief: The Islamic Incursions among the Converted Peoples, Random House, New York, p. 332

[16]. Pellat Ch, Lambton AKS and Orhonlu C (1978) Khasi, In The Encyclopaedia of Islam, E J Brill ed., Leiden, Vol. IV, p. 1089

[17]. Milton, p. 126

[18]. Segal, p. 52

[19]. Shaikh A, Islamic Morality, http://iranpoliticsclub.net/islam/islamic-morality/index.htm

[20]. Hitti PK (1948) The Arabs : A Short History, Macmillan, London, p. 99

[21]. Segal, p. 40–41; Hitti (1961), p. 276

[22]. Moreland, p. 93, note 1

[23]. Ibid, p. 87–88

[24]. Palanquins were used for carrying the women, especially the newly married brides, in medieval India.

[25]. Lal (1994), p. 106–09

[26]. Elliot & Dawson, Vol. II, p. 127–29

Comments (33)Add Comment
0
Ghilman
written by Machmoed , October 28, 2011
It looks like Ghilman are nothing but what we call to today "fagget" or made that way by their masters. Instead of submittting to islam they had to submit to be a "Ghilman". As long as it pleases the Master right?
0
...
written by Abdullah , October 28, 2011
Article is nice, but pictures are disgusting.
0
Hitler.Stalin,Muhammad
written by C"H"Martel , October 28, 2011

My book, "Satan's Trinity: Hitler, Stalin & Muhammad," will be available within the month and one may pre-order at http://www.satanstrinity.wordpress.com/ For the first time in history "HSM" appear together on a book cover. The idea behind the book is to make headway against the ludicrous idea that Muhammad should be conjoined with any religious leader/founder. Once this comparison, driven by actual names, has been made then it must be attacked. Once the attack has been launched then the attackers will be forced to defend their attack. Since the attack is indefensible then the "religion" Muhammad (if he existed) founded will begin to be viewed as the scam it is. This book has been written under the principle of KISS. And nothing is simpler to understand than Hitler and Stalin…..and now, Muhammad. Thank you for your time.......C"H"Martel http://www.youtube.com/results...artel&aq=f
0
Sodomy is allowed in islam
written by Star War , October 28, 2011
it is true that there is the mention of Ghilmans in the Quran. there is also record that Muhammad sucked the tongues of his nephews when they were young. It could be the reason that Muhammad had some attraction towards young boys and he might have screwed them too, that is why, most part of the history has been burried and no one knows. In Islamic countries, due to the height of man and woman discrimination, the intensity of gays and lesbians in Islam is far greater than in any other religions. Mostly males usually engaged with other males in every walks of life, and same case is with women.

Muhammad was obtaining more and more women because he was feared of his sexual orientation. He might thought that if he gets more women, so his inclination towards young beautiful boys could be diverted. But it is not known, whether muhammad was successful in this attempt or not. that will always be a question mark.
0
Abdullah
written by Dwito , October 28, 2011
Article is nice, but pictures are disgusting.

And the history, Abdullah?
0
Dwito
written by Abdullah , October 28, 2011
as history goes, Every History is ugly and every history is beautiful in their own point of views. You may like Hitler, Muhammad, Halaku Khan, but other might hate them.
0
@Abdullah
written by Editor, M. A. Khan , October 28, 2011
I agree that the picture could be a bit offensive to a section of readers, particularly to underage ones, but they are the true representation of the content. If it's not offensive to read the content, there shouldn't be complaint with the pictures either, especially from mature adults. It's not wrong to appreciate history as the reality it was.
0
...
written by Abdullah , October 28, 2011
I understand what you are trying to say, but atleast when someone writes articles their contents itself explains everything like a visionary formation which is good enough for mature adults with high intellects. For them pictures or images are not necessary because their writings proves and explains everything in a beautiful style that even a video or picture can't present those beauty.
That what I was trying to say.
0
Abdullah
written by dead or alive , October 28, 2011
If you could have been in those pictures yourself and seen with your own eyes,would you not want the world to see what you saw?
0
dead or alive
written by Abdullah , October 29, 2011
Ok if you like those pictures to see, it is your taste and I don't wonder why you like to see those pictures. You need to check your sexual orientation.
0
Abdullah
written by dead or alive , October 29, 2011
Lets start tearing the pages out of the history books.
0
dead or alive
written by Abdullah , October 29, 2011
yes start tearing pages out of the history books but leave the pages of hetrosexual and homosexual contexts along with pictures (if possible) just to satisfy your lustful desires to watch them.
0
Abdullah
written by dead or alive , October 29, 2011
You sound like an out standing member of your community.
0
Islam
written by Tanstaafl jw , October 29, 2011
....enough to make you sick, is it enough to make you stop?
0
--
written by Archpagan , October 30, 2011
Muslim rule in India is known for forceful conversion, temple demolition and castration of slaves. Yet, our secularists want us to believe it was an age of overall progress and liberation of lower caste Hindus.
0
LOL
written by Avatar , October 30, 2011
Lol pictures are funny. the last picture makes me laugh, when I see both of them sitting in weird position LOL.
0
Islam, the root of all evil!
written by Guy Macher , October 30, 2011
Muslims should feel sick to their stomachs. What filth! And they are required to ape these actions because their perfect pervert Mo acted like this!

The more I learn about Islam the less I like it. Each time I think I've reached the bottom of the Islamic scum bucket, a whole deeper level is revealed.

0
yes
written by dead or alive , October 30, 2011
Islam is lower than whale shit.
0
@Abdullah
written by Alamgir-Hussain , October 31, 2011
Ok if you like those pictures to see, it is your taste and I don't wonder why you like to see those pictures. You need to check your sexual orientation.


Abdullah. Your comment is sickening. Watching these images of those unfortunate boys and girls -- tens of millions of them -- it breaks our heart. Only people of sickening and sexually perverted mind will take any sexual gratification watching these images. And we know Muslims are the leading porn-watchers on the net. It mostly Muslims who would take sexual or sensual pleasures seeing these pics.
0
Alamgir
written by Abdullah , October 31, 2011
And we know Muslims are the leading porn-watchers on the net. It mostly Muslims who would take sexual or sensual pleasures seeing these pics.

You say Muslims are leading in watching porns on net. Ok, and who is acting in those porn movies? are they muslims?
0
@ Abdullah
written by Editor, M. A. Khan , October 31, 2011
There are Muslims in porn movies, but fewer. It all depends on the level of tolerance in a society of how much it allows its members to live their life as they wish.

If Muslim societies will be as tolerant, they will be as frequent in porn movies as members of religious groups. Muslims are no great saints. Their propensity toward watching porn just says that.
0
Islam is CULT
written by Star War , October 31, 2011
No doubt Islam is CULT, their followers are inhumans, their culture is damn and their presence on earth is perilous. Go Muslims go away, let us live and you all die in the hole of turd.
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , October 31, 2011
M. A. Khan " There are Muslims in porn movies, but fewer."

Porn movies and porn-stars are less harmful if compared with religious sermons by clergies. Watching porn is waste of time. It may have some unhealthy effect on psychology. But sermons are mostly attributing lies to God. Allah says:

فَمَنْ أَظْلَمُ مِمَّنِ افْتَرَىٰ عَلَى اللَّـهِ كَذِبًا أَوْ كَذَّبَ بِآيَاتِهِ ۚ إِنَّهُ لَا يُفْلِحُ الْمُجْرِمُونَ

"Who is more unjust than he who imputes lies to God or denies His revelations? The wrongdoers will surely not be reprieved."(10:17)

هَـٰؤُلَاءِ قَوْمُنَا اتَّخَذُوا مِن دُونِهِ آلِهَةً ۖ لَّوْلَا يَأْتُونَ عَلَيْهِم بِسُلْطَانٍ بَيِّنٍ ۖ فَمَنْ أَظْلَمُ مِمَّنِ افْتَرَىٰ عَلَى اللَّـهِ كَذِبًا

"Our people have considered other things equal to God. Why cannot they present clear proof in support of their claim. Who is more unjust than one who invents falsehood against God?" (18:15)
0
Reed
written by duh_swami , October 31, 2011
Who is more unjust than one who invents falsehood against God?" (18:15)

Answer...The god Allah who tells lies about himself, a book written by religious perverts to agree with the lies, and you have Islam...
A religion of lies, with a liar god, a liar prophet, a lying book...The King of Lies is Satan...I don't believe in Satan either, but the title fits Allah...it is Allah who is unjust...and that's a good trick since he does not exist...
0
reply
written by younis , October 31, 2011
All the hadiths you quoted refer to the same incident. I know you did not read complete Sahih Bukhari or Sahih Muslim, but you have picked it up from an anti-Islamic web site. But yet I will answer. If a layman reads these hadiths, he will think that the prophet attacked a
province, took the women as captives and allowed soldiers to rape the women. But to understand the hadith you have to correlate it with the biography of the prophet & also to the Quran. The whole incident narrated is not continuous & did not happen in 1 or 2 days, it has happened over a period of time. After the battle, the prophet & the soldiers went back to medina. There the war booty & captives was distributed. After this, the soldiers asked the prophet about coitus interrupts. There is a world of a difference between intercourse & rape. In America each person has 8 different sexual partners before settling down with one. Does it mean that everyone is raping 8 women on an average?? Can a man have intercourse with his slave women? Islam is a natural religion. It will not say something against the nature. If there was a rule that intercourse with slave women is prohibited, will it be practical? We see even in a co-ed schools, there are sexual affairs, do you expect that the man & women living in the same house could maintain this rule. NEVER!!! So permission of sex with slave women is natural & logical. It is not a compulsion, but permission. If the slave woman gives birth to the child of her master, she automatically gains her freedom. Do you have a better solution for slave women??
0
To Reed Wilson
written by Archpagan , October 31, 2011
"But sermons are mostly attributing lies to God."

I can not agree more. Koran itself is the sermon delivered by the super criminal Muhammad. God should be good and kind to all his creations, believer non-believer alike. He is expected to judge man by his deeds, not by his belief or the ritual practiced. No stigma should be attached to any ritualistic practice like idolatry, as praying to the sky is not more scientific. Knowledge lies in the ability to find out unity amidst diversity.
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written by Reed Wilson. , October 31, 2011

"Who is more unjust than one who invents falsehood against God?"

It is not a question Mr. duh_swami. It is beautiful way of saying that one who invents falsehood against God is most unjust.



(18:15)
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written by Reed Wilson. , October 31, 2011
Archpagan. You write "I can not agree more. Koran itself is the sermon delivered by the super criminal Muhammad."

At another place you write "My impression is that Koran is nothing but Arabic translation of other scriptures, made by some incompetent persons. Any comment please?

Do you think other scriptures are also sermons delivered by the same 'super criminal'?

"God should be good and kind to all his creations, believer non-believer alike. He is expected to judge man by his deeds, not by his belief or the ritual practices."

You are right. God IS like that. He judges people by their deeds. Deeds makes you stronger and fit for the better world which he has created for thee virtuous. Belief means what is right and what is wrong: a requirement for deeds.

"No stigma should be attached to any ritualistic practice like idolatry, as praying to the sky is not more scientific."

You may put the idols on your head but dont expect guidance from them. You dont expect rewards of your deeds from them.

"Knowledge lies in the ability to find out unity amidst diversity."

Very true. We can discuss unity elsewhere. I must tell you that these 'ulema' rabbis, priests, 'pandits etc have done more damage to the humanity. No comparison with porn.
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2 younis
written by Machmoed , October 31, 2011
So permission of sex with slave women is natural & logical. It is not a compulsion, but permission. If the slave woman gives birth to the child of her master, she automatically gains her freedom. Do you have a better solution for slave women??

Are you serious younis? Do you know what you are talking about? Are you saying slavery is something Allah would aprove if REAL?
Only because of this kind of thinking i know you are damaged. Slavery is an immature practise and is real bad. You talk about natural and logical but the reality is, you are the only one who think sex with slaves is natural and logical and the rest goes on as if you mean to say that those slaves liked it and maybe a privilige to them. Is this a new tactic of apologists?

It is not a compulsion, but permission.

Sure pumpkin, every women who's husband is murdered and has sex with those who killed her husband the same night, is not compulsion but care and loving because they were teaching the religion of peace to those slaves wich were not slaves until the messenger and his bandits came along to enslave them. If you know this, then you understand why according to hadith prayed the whole night for his sins. If hadith is only 50% true then i don't think he prayed enough. Especially considering the way of his death and his umma.
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To Mahmoed
written by Archpagan , November 01, 2011
Younis shows the extent of perversely to which the entire Muslims society is wallowing in. They don't have have the capacity to distinguish between normal sex and rape. In order to teach them civil behavior we have to stoop to their level and rape their women.
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written by Machmoed , November 01, 2011
In order to teach them civil behavior we have to stoop to their level and rape their women.

Maybe and ofcours after killing their husbands and enslave their children, like muslims did and the messenger is the greatest example to emulate so they are just obeying and following the words of the almighty and the example of Muhammad.
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Sermons to Reed Wilson
written by Archpagan , November 01, 2011
O sorry, sorry, Muhammad had originality when it came to the episodes of Jainab and Ayesha. Imagine what a mess-up will be created if a person with a primary level education usurp the rights to run a university. I am not sure about ‘culpable mental state’ of the authors of other scriptures plagiarized by Muhammad. But, I am sure, those were written with political motives. Theory of killing the non-believers, iconoclasm and Abrahamic monotheism has no spiritual / religious value or utility. Those ideas do promote sectarian unity which has great merits in the political field, I admit.

We do not pray to idols or draw inspirations from them. When an idol is installed with rituals it becomes a deity. We find God in the deity as He surcharges the mind of the devotee to the message/story associated with the divinity concerned. You pray to God through thin air and we do the same through idol/deity. Why do you pray facing to kaa’ba? Are you not worshipping the black stone of kaa’ba, and the Christians the corpse (Crucifix)?

However, you are not committing any sin by such methods of worship. Nor is idolatry an essential feature of Hinduism, like the law of karma. But, idolatry is natural and easier method to connect with the almighty. So that, it developed across the globe in isolation.
To be continued

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written by Reed Wilson. , November 01, 2011
Archpagan. I didnt mean offending you by "You may put the idols on your head but dont expect guidance from them". I just mean that we can have them adore them etc. I have no reservation about Hinduism.

What people do they have logic for that which I respect.

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