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Muhammad, Islam's Sexual Superman Prophet

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Apparently the prophet of Islam, Muhammad, was something of a sexual superman—indeed, possessing the sexual appetite and potency of 4,000 mortal men.

According to Islam’s most trusted and traditional sources, the story is as follows: Muhammad used to visit and have sex with his nine wives in a single hour (other accounts indicate 11 wives in a single hour). This averages to about six minutes per wife (not counting traveling time from tent to tent). When one of Muhammad’s companions wondered at the prophet’s superhuman feats of libido and speed, another companion, the famous Anas, responded that the prophet had the potency of 40 men.

This account was deemed authentic enough to include in Sahih Bukhari—the most canonical hadith collection, second in authority only to the Quran itself—meaning that mainstream Islam accepts it as fact.

But alas, the matter doesn’t just end there.

Another, more fabulous, account says that Muhammad had the strength of 400 “heavenly men”—each of whom are said to have the strength of 100 mortal men.  Strength for what, you ask? In the words of Islam’s prophet, “a [heavenly] man will be given the strength of a hundred men to eat, drink, feel desire [i.e., libido], and have sexual intercourse.”

Thus, according to Islam, when he was alive on earth, Muhammad had the sexual lust and potency of 400 “heavenly men,” which is equivalent to 4,000 mortal men.

Lest the reader think all this a joke (or a “hoax”), here is a video of popular Muslim preacher Sheikh Mahmoud al-Misri confirming all the above. After declaring that Muhammad had the sexual strength of 4,000 men, he assured his audience that this is not just some rumor, but was “verified through scientific research.” He then recounted the above narrative—that Muhammad used to copulate with his nine wives in one hour and that he had the strength of 400 heavenly men.

He even quoted from yet another authoritative Islamic text—telling his audience to “commit this reference to memory, so you can recall it when people ask for proof.”  According to the authoritative Fath al-Bari, compiled by the esteemed Muslim scholar Ibn Hajar, “based on these calculations [400 heavenly men x 100 mortal men], our prophet Muhammad—prayers and blessings upon him—had the strength of 4,000 men.”

Accordingly, Sheikh Mahmoud marveled at the fact that, despite Muhammad’s sexual superpowers—“which required 4,000 mortal wives”—he was married to only one woman for 15 years, Khadija, his elderly wife and patroness.

This approach—boasting about the prophet’s lasciviousness, only to try to rationalize it into some magnanimous point—is common among Islam’s clerics. For example, discussing pedophilia in Islam, another TV cleric spoke in awe concerning Muhammad’s “patience” with his 9-year-old child bride Aisha:

We know that Asia’s mother went to take her down from the swing that she was playing on to fix her hair and prepare her for the prophet so he could enter her [have sex with her]—and she did that all on the same day. So you see, she was playing with her fellow playmates even though her day of consummation was that very same day—and all that they did was to fix her up for the prophet so he could have sex with her. Now what do we see when the prophet married Aisha? Did he go to her and say “Okay that’s it, you’re married, you’re now a grown up, you’re supposed to be mature, you need to do this and that; you need to forget about your toys and your little friends; you are now a wife of a man, you have to see to my needs” and that’s it? No. The prophet allowed her to continue playing with her toy dolls—indeed, the prophet even sometimes gave her such things to play with.

Three observations:

What other religion portrays its head figure and prophet in such a manner? What do these accounts of Muhammad—having sex with several women in a single hour, having sex with a 9-year-old—say about the founder and role model of Islam? What does a sexual paradise—where men will be granted 400 times the power and pleasure for life's most carnal pursuits, food, drink, and sex, indicate? Understanding this great divide between Islam and other religions is key to understanding why Islam is at conflict with the rest of the world (hint: it’s not because of land, politics, or grievances).

With such obsessions and priorities, is it any wonder that countless stories concerning sex-slavery, female abduction, and rape—especially for infidel non-Muslims—flood the (non-mainstream) media?

Muslims are obligated to accept such accounts about their prophet. These stories concerning Muhammad’s superhuman sexuality are contained in Sahih Bukhari, Sunan al-Tirmidhi, and Fath al-Bari—all mainstays of Islamic teachings. To cast doubt on one of the accounts contained in them is to cast doubt on the entire collections—and hence, to cast doubt on Islam. This is why the guardians of Allah’s religion insist all these accounts be accepted without question, and why Muslims are compelled to uphold their prophet’s teachings, from “adult breastfeeding” to drinking camel urine.

Incidentally, any Muslim offended by all this should consider: Who is truly responsible for defaming the prophet of Islam—people like me, for translating and sharing the texts of Islam and the teachings of its clerics, or the texts and clerics of Islam themselves?

Comments (157)Add Comment
0
Interesting (and funny) article
written by Kaser , October 26, 2012
I guess that if I create my own religion (which Mohammed did) and I claim to be the "chosen one" speaking on behalf of the one god (which Mohammed did) - I would also probably elevate myself above my hordes of followers (which Mohammed also did).

Like the famous Megadeth song "Symphony of Destruction", which is pretty close to describing Islam:

You take a mortal man,
And put him in control
Watch him become a god
Watch peoples heads a'roll
0
And yet
written by Tanstaafl jw , October 26, 2012
Mohammed was unable to produce a male heir. I guess the "best of men" was shooting blanks......
0
Raymond Ibrahim
written by kope , October 26, 2012
Raymond Ibrahim

.........Muhammad, Islam's Sexual Superman Prophet.........



and his religion is the fastest growing religion in the west where christianity is dying

0
Kope, Kope, Kope...
written by Kaser , October 26, 2012
In the West, Islam is gaining and Christianity is dying, and this makes perfect sense.

Western Christians, being free to think and question, being educated, are seeing the faults and fails of religion in general. They leave.
(Some leave to join Islam - can you imagine!!! - many of them during their passage in the penitentiaries as convicted felons... great addition to your group Kope)

BUT Once Western Muslims see these same faults and fails in Islam (and they will) they will drop Islam also...
...even quicker that we dropped Christianity because they are surrounded by people that do not hate them back for their beliefs.

But Muslims leaving or abandoning Islam won't brag about it Kope... You know why? Probably due to the fact they get marked for death.
I'm sure there is WAY more Muslims silently abandoning Islam than you might think Kope.

Have fun living in your hate-filled dreamworld Kope!
0
@ Kope
written by balam , October 26, 2012
The CANCER also spreads very fast,destroying the healthy cells of body.Islam is that cancer.Then ,the flies are always attracted to filth and garbage and you are also one living on it.Have you ever seen HONEY BEES rushing to SHIT?To hide his IMPTENCY,the MUSLIMS exaggerate his LIBIDO.By the way VIGRA is a recent DISCOVERY. He was also GAY,both A.C/D.C.There is nothing to be proud of his sexual pervert life.He started his career as a GIGOLO of KHADIJA,led a pervert life and died of cardiac arrest during sexual climax in old age with a youthful woman named Ayesha which was too much for him to handle. Those who live by SEX,the also die by SEX.
0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , October 26, 2012
Kope. Raymond is right that Muhammad according to Hadis of Bukhari was a sexual superman. This Muhammad is a fictional character of Hadis.

Muhammad of Quran had declared in Quran that was similar to people except he received Quran or revelation.

قُلْ إِنَّمَا أَنَا بَشَرٌ مِّثْلُكُمْ يُوحَىٰ إِلَيَّ أَنَّمَا إِلَـٰهُكُمْ إِلَـٰهٌ وَاحِدٌ ۖ فَمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو لِقَاءَ رَبِّهِ فَلْيَعْمَلْ عَمَلًا صَالِحًا وَلَا يُشْرِكْ بِعِبَادَةِ رَبِّهِ أَحَدًا
0
@Reed Wilson
written by balam , October 26, 2012
Both these concepts about Mohammad are WRONG.He was neither a SEXUAL SUPERMAN nor he got any revalations.The film:innocence of Muslims is right when Mohammad revealed that the revalations had stopped after the death of Khadija's cousin who told him all the Biblical stories which were distorted and put in the Quran.One must give credit to him for managing to deceive the world so cleverly.
0
Islam and Wrestling
written by Gnostic , October 27, 2012
What do Islam and Wrestling share together? It is a very simple answer.

In the wrestling world, there are marks and smart marks aka smarks. Both marks and smarks are fans, but marks do not realize that wrestling is fake while smarks do. Many marks are very young and maybe a little bit unexperienced but many of them become smarks after a while.

I think there are also many marks and smarks in islam and many marks believe almost anyhting, even the story above that Muhammad had the sexual power of a modern super pornstar. The reason why there are so many marks in islam is that most muslims have a low education level and many are even illiterate, makeing them an easy target for the islamist soul snatchers.

But who are the islamic smarks then? It is easy too. They are the rulers and the very rich who are interested in keeping the conflicts heating up in order to keep oil prices up or in order to keep the people stupid and keeping them away from making politial or social claims such as for more freedom, democracy, equality, fair distribution of the petro dollars and so on.

Islamic marks shgould wake up!
0
kope
written by Reed Wilson. , October 27, 2012
Sorry for incomplete post above. I give translation:

Say "I am no more than a human being like you; one to whom revelation is made: 'Your Lord is the One and Only God.' Hence, whoever looks forward to meet his Lord, let him do righteous works, and let him associate none with the worship of his Lord." 18:110

At other place in Quran we find:

قُلْ إِنَّمَا أَنَا بَشَرٌ مِّثْلُكُمْ يُوحَىٰ إِلَيَّ أَنَّمَا إِلَـٰهُكُمْ إِلَـٰهٌ وَاحِدٌ فَاسْتَقِيمُوا إِلَيْهِ وَاسْتَغْفِرُوهُ ۗ وَوَيْلٌ لِّلْمُشْرِكِينَ

Tell them, “I am only a human being like you. It is revealed to me that your God is One God; so direct yourselves straight to Him, and seek His forgiveness. Woe to those who associate others with Allah in His Divinity." 41:6

kope, such 'sexual supermen' are found in literature making mockery of each and every religion. Lord Krishna is said to have married more than 16000 wives.

Mr. Abul Kasim and Mr. Muhammad A Khan have contributed similar articles on this site. With the result, non muslim impotants, who had lost all hopes, and science had excused for any help, took up Islam as a solution of their problem. I dont think it worked.
0
Gnostic
written by Kaser , October 27, 2012
Original and very clear way of illustrating my concept that Muslims, when they become Educated, free-thinking Muslims will abandon Islam like they would a sinking boat.
0
ISLAM is not for human civilization.ISLAM is for demons.
written by kafir-infidel , October 27, 2012
The profit MO was a terrible guy and created and imposed a terrible, terrible religion on his followers by force and lure !!!
Now the GERMANS view and treat Hitler with great disdain , becaus eof his starting second world war and genocide of jews.
Actually ISLAM, the terrible religion conjured up by MO , the monster is the worst - because ISLAM= fascism+totalitarianism+ NAZISM + communism + hatred for all unbelievers +misogyny+killing .

Just like Germans , Moslems must think and act to destroy ISLAM (ICONOCLASM , destroy all traces of ISLAM , QQUURRAAN, SIRA, HADIS and all mosques ). It is guaranteed , by doing so all Moslems will become ex.Moslems and feel good that the nightmare and dark chapter OF ISLAM is finished in human civilization . Can the moslems act ? to feel that they contributed positively to end this nightmare of ISLAM?
0
brother Reed Wilson.
written by kope , October 27, 2012
i dont believe in all the hadiths but pick and choose
0
Kope
written by Kaser , October 27, 2012
You avoided answering my argument above. Why?
Hard to argue logic I guess.
0
Kaser
written by kope , October 27, 2012
atheists dont have imonopoly on nteligence, atheists can be dumb ass so does religious people

to me you are amoung dumb atheist

because you chat without any goal
0
Kope
written by Kaser , October 27, 2012
Ok - according to you I'm a dumb atheist because I chat without any goal.

Firstly, Intelligence has nothing to do with one's belief system. Intelligence allows an individual to observe, evaluate, contextualize, form opinions, verify them and conclude on facts. It allows an individual to QUESTION what is presented to him. No blindly accept dictates. FAITH does not exist in my book. FAITH is for scared people.

Secondly My goals are simple - primary goal: to spread atheism as much as I can by opening the eyes of religious fanatics - those blinded by irrelevant scriptures that are completely, totally false. That deflect humanity's attention from the real problems facing us on EARTH. My secondary goal is to DEFUSE and CASTRATE Islamism as much as I can, one person at a time. Because of all the religions out there, it's by far the worst. I spread atheism not through the sword, but by arguments, logic, and the scientific process.

Now that you know my goals, am I less dumb in your eyes? Is it clearer now?

What is your goal here Kope, because I have trouble figuring out yours also.
0
Kope the monkey see monkey do
written by Infidel and More Proud , October 27, 2012
Kope tha Papi your prophet PBUH (Poo be upon him) fired blanks which you guys think his great capability. You following him regularly fire blanks. No logic or reasoning. You can do better at least try to hide your bile and do takiya as RW does....
0
islamic profit MO was a sexual pervert .
written by kafir-infidel , October 27, 2012
Oye Moslems , Lo , ISLAMIC ALLAH was falsehood and his pro-pet rasoolulla MO was ulla monster !!!
KOPE and REED - just have great time and fun in wallowing in your mud . MO was always associated with ALLAH and vice versa .
0
@Reed -- Bukhari's Muhammad is same as Quran's
written by M A Khan, editor , October 27, 2012
That's why even four wives and unlimited sex-slaves were not enough for Muhammad, but was sufficient for others. So for Muhammad alone, Allah made halal unlimited number of married wives, plus any woman, not married to him, who would offer her to the holy Prophet. No need to mention the unlimited number of sex-slaves. These are allocated to Muhammad in the Quran itself.

Reed would agree that in the eyes of Allah itself, Muhammad was a sexual superman. Bukhari is accurate in retelling what Allah thought of the Prophet...
0
Real face of mohammad
written by Gautam , October 27, 2012
Know real face of islam ,If any website is blocked in your country use proxy server www.hidemyass.com
www.islam-watch.org
www.jihadwatch.org
www.faithfreedom.org
www.apostatesofislam.com
www.islamist-watch.org
www.prophetofdoom.net
www.mundosinislam.com
topdocumentaryfilms.com/true-islam/
topdocumentaryfilms.com/science-and-islawww.islamicart.co.il/enm
www.exmuslim.com
islammonitor.org/index.php?...islam-watch...islamic.
http://f**kyeahmohammedcartoons.tumblr.com/
www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/modern_satires/www.faithfreedom.org/
www.islamist-watch.org
formermuslimsunited.americancommunityexchange.org/
http://www.studytoanswer.net/islam_myths.html
mostintolerantreligion.com/tag/islam-watch-org
islam-watch.blogspot.com
www.themuslimwatch.com/
www.1000mistakes.com
freedomdefense.typepad.com/leave-islam/
apostasyandislam.blogspot.com
apostasyandislam.blogspot.com
www.amazon.com/Leaving-Islam-Apostates-Speak.../1591020689
www.anti-cair-net.org
www.masada2000.org/islam.html -
www.seafox.com/islam.html
christianfighter.blogspot.com/.../5-reasons-why-islam-is-false.html
www.rim.org/muslim/islam.htm
www.formermuslims.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=972www.sodahead.com/fun/proof-that-islam-is-a.../blog-139099
www.sodahead.com/fun/proof-that-islam-is-a.../blog-139099
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0042/0042_01.asp/
prophetofdoom.net/
www.peacefaq.com/apostacy.htm
www.peacefaq.com/apostacy.htm
www.ezsoftech.com/stories/mis42.asp
www.twf.org/Truth.
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-871902797772997781
www.british-israel.ca/Islam.htm
www.techybytes.com/why-islam-is-a-backwards-religion/
www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/72-18087.aspx -
www.anst.uu.se/alion490
www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU36ZjEsJEA
www.amazon.com/Understanding-Muhammad.../dp/0980994802
muslim-responses.com/Ali_Sina_exposed_/Ali_Sina_exposed_
www.exmuslim.com
www.islam-watch.org/AliSina/index.html
muslim-responses.com/Ali_Sina_exposed_/Ali_Sina_exposed
www.amazon.com/Understanding-Muhammad.../dp/0980994802
www.mpacuk.org/story/020912/imran-firasat-tries-hit-back.html
www.citizenwarrior.com/2012/09/update-on-imran-firasat.html
ourchristianplace.com/mundosinislam/ - United States
themuslimissue.wordpress.com/.../spain-imran-firasat-10-reasons-to-b
britishfreedom.org/tag/imran-firasat/
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVsCGxwxq9A
mundosinislam.com/english/
islam-watch.org/.../1043-tarnishing-imran-firasat-how-muslims-lie.ht
my.opera.com/imranfirasatblog/blog/
www.ustream.tv/channel/imran-firasat
vimeo.com/24591627
unsavoryislam.blogspot.com/.../imran-firasat-i-will-burn-koran-in.ht
www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/foreigner-wanted.../408675
blogantiislam.wordpress.com/2011/07/25/muhammad-a-sex-robot/
www.freedombulwark.net/my-
0
real face of mohammad
written by Gautam , October 27, 2012
blog/blogger/Imran Firasat
vimeo.com/worldwithoutislamhttp
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVsCGxwxq9A
hinduawaken.wordpress.com/.../bush-a-forgotten-hero-by-imran-fira
https://www.interpol.int/public/data/wanted/.../34/2010_39234.asp
://jihadonbuddhists.org/?p=29
s
http://www.faithfreedom.org/
http://www.light-of-life.com/
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/
http://www.stopsharialaw.com/
http://www.muslimhope.com/
http://www.islameyat.com/
http://www.islamreview.com/
http://www.answeringinfidels.com/
http://www.exmuslim.com/
http://www.muhammadtube.com/
http://thespiritofislam.com/
http://debate.org.uk/
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/
http://bibleandquran.org/
http://jcsm.org/biblelessons/thekoran.htm/
http://muhammadorjesus.googlepages.com/
http://www.joelstrumpet.com/
http://www.rim.org/
http://morethandreams.org/
0
kope
written by Jye , October 27, 2012
Actually, Buddhism is the fastest growing religion. More people LEAVE Islam than they join it. It's not as if they can advertise the fact, though, is it?
People that join Islam have the worst kind of ignorance. The religion is available for anyone to study. It's all there in black and white, translated and approved by their top ranking scholars.
Anyone who converts to any religion without understanding it for themselves are a waste of oxygen.
0
If Islam Was Not There
written by xyz , October 27, 2012
Reed, abc, Kope, Malem and all Muslims,

Can I ask a thought provoking question?

What if there was no Muhammad ? What if there was no Islam?

What is the worst in your imagination would happen to humanity if Islam never existed considering the fact that 75% of humans on earth are living peacefully and progressing.

Even if Islam did some good for some time but then breaking and deterioration has been at the speed of light confirming the inability to provide and survive and to have no solid grounds.

After 14 centuries of introduction of Islam by Allah, do you really believe that it is a success story and today Allah is proud and satisfied with his creation of new religion for humanity.

Please don't give typical explanations.

If I am the owner of my company and if it is doing well and my employees are not following my teachings and rules and laws and my company is losing credibility than it is my Resposibility to take action immediately to correct the things and I will not wait for a "judgement day" to punish the culprits and when the company is completely destroyed.

Also, do you guys believe that "waiting for the judgement day" is a quality of Allah

Or " to take immediate action to correct things" should be the quality of Allah??
0
If Islam Was Not There
written by xyz , October 27, 2012
Sorry it should be read as

If I am the owner of my company and if it is NOT doing well....
0
M.A Khan The Editor
written by Islam-watch Pastor , October 27, 2012
You are the Quran agrees with the Hadiths that Moh was a sexual pervert with the permission of Allah but Reed believes that the Quran dignified his Prophet more than the hadith so he rejects the hadith. The truth is that both scriptures are a buntch of lies and evil. Come out it and you will be free, Cheers
0
For My Information
written by xyz , October 27, 2012

This is not related to the topic but I am just curious as hajj season is on

Did any of the Prophets ( before Muhammad ) ever went to Mecca to perform hajj rituals like Moses, Jesus etc, or they ever spoke about the holiness of Kaaba ??
0
re: XYZ
written by Gnostic , October 27, 2012
Congratulations! In many cases nobody takes notice of a contradiction but you did!

While there is no mentioning of the Kaaba by any socalled prophet, there are some Kaabas in Iran, built by Zoroastrians many years before Muhammad appeared.
0
To Reed Wilson
written by Archpagan , October 27, 2012
Reed, Islam, as traditionally understood and accepted, is a sex-centric ideology. Muslim rulers boasted of keeping harem containing hundreds of sex-slaves. Islam provides for the maximum possible sex in present life and unlimited sex in afterlife. So, it is an ideal theology for sex-perverts. It is very easily understood what type of people love and get attracted to Islam.
0
Archpagan
written by Kaser , October 27, 2012
Reason why it's so easy for Terrorist "masterminds" to convince illiterate, sexually frustrated young men to blow themselves up - and get their 72 "bambi-eyed" virgins.
0
And for Kope
written by Infidel and More Proud , October 27, 2012
Kope doesnt like white skin.
He will get big dicked balck africans or Sudanese or Somalis instead of pearly boyz.
They will widen his back side for Jihad.

It will be Islamic hell for him to sit or big black dirks.
0
No sex superman
written by Montegue , October 28, 2012
Mohammad, if indeed had sex with all his wives in an hour, he could have suffered anorgasmia, impotent, or put up a show to make believe that he could do so by going from tent to tent. As non-Muslims know, the story was fraudulently concocted by flattering fanatics who used it as a marketing strategy to typical, sexually insane Muslims. Since, in their paranoia, Islamic scholars vehemently defend its authenticity, they are equally confounded by many contradictions of the texts they justify for their daily practices, and as suggested by an Islamic historian that, where there is lack of water, they clean their penis, after having sex, with clean sand.

We must let them keep the story alive and let their youths be stunted in their intellectual development and from sound thinking. It is good for us to let them persuade themselves in their beliefs and be left behind in stone age.
0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , October 28, 2012
Mr. M.A. Khan. You write Bukhari's Muhammad is same as Quran's"

I find no reason to agree with your judgement. Muhammad of Quran has declared in Quran that he was similar to people except he received Quran or revelation.

قُلْ إِنَّمَا أَنَا بَشَرٌ مِّثْلُكُمْ يُوحَىٰ إِلَيَّ أَنَّمَا إِلَـٰهُكُمْ إِلَـٰهٌ وَاحِدٌ ۖ فَمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو لِقَاءَ رَبِّهِ فَلْيَعْمَلْ عَمَلًا صَالِحًا وَلَا يُشْرِكْ بِعِبَادَةِ رَبِّهِ أَحَدًا


Say "I am no more than a human being like you; one to whom revelation is made: 'Your Lord is the One and Only God.' Hence, whoever looks forward to meet his Lord, let him do righteous works, and let him associate none with the worship of his Lord." 18:110

At other place in Quran we find:

قُلْ إِنَّمَا أَنَا بَشَرٌ مِّثْلُكُمْ يُوحَىٰ إِلَيَّ أَنَّمَا إِلَـٰهُكُمْ إِلَـٰهٌ وَاحِدٌ فَاسْتَقِيمُوا إِلَيْهِ وَاسْتَغْفِرُوهُ ۗ وَوَيْلٌ لِّلْمُشْرِكِينَ

Tell them, “I am only a human being like you. It is revealed to me that your God is One God; so direct yourselves straight to Him, and seek His forgiveness. Woe to those who associate others with Allah in His Divinity." 41:6

Permission of four wives is good for every believer. Not only for Muhammad. It does not mean 'sexual power of 40 men'. Sexual power of one man is also not defined and cannot be computed.

Whereas Muhammad of hadis had abnormal sexual power. How both characters could be same Mr. Khan please?
0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , October 28, 2012
kope. You write "I dont believe in all the hadiths but pick and choose".

It means that you can reject every hadis. The one you may choose is chosen at your own risk and cost. The judgment is always yours.

It is not our discretion to follow ANY hadis, irrespective of its authenticity. Quran dose not approve that.

I am afraid I cannot afford that risk.
0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , October 28, 2012
Brother Archpagan you may trust 'traditionally understood'. You have a right to believe.
0
Quran's Muslims
written by fineliving56 , October 28, 2012
Are as delusional as Hadith's Muslims

They distance themselves from hadiths, such as the disgusting one which reveals, Muhammad allowed '' breast feeding adults '' … but, on the other hand,… they have no problem, in Allah's disgusting promise of young virgins with big breasts and big eyes to MUSLIM MEN !

Quran's Muslims are not JUST as delusional as the hadeeth Muslims, they are worse …

They are hypocrites, dishonest and hide such arrogance .


0
brother Reed Wilson.
written by kope , October 28, 2012
kope. You write "I dont believe in all the hadiths but pick and choose".

It means that you can reject every hadis. The one you may choose is chosen at your own risk and cost. The judgment is always yours.

It is not our discretion to follow ANY hadis, irrespective of its authenticity. Quran dose not approve that.

I am afraid I cannot afford that risk.............



i think you are too dogmatic like those dumb salifis or wahabis

i as a muslim can follow buddha teaching if i like or agree to them

salifis and quran only people are dogmatic and not islamic but they are still my brother and sister in islam

salam
take care


0
So Far
written by fineliving56 , October 28, 2012
I NEVER MET TWO MUSLIMS WHO COULD AGREE ON '' EVERYTHING IN THIER ISLAM ''

Look up their, at the two Muslims calling each others Muslims brothers … but they are as different as day and night .

In spite of this well known FACT about them … they still get mad at the world, because they are misunderstood .

It will help infidel if they only agree on all things Islamic .



0
Kaser
written by kope , October 28, 2012
Kaser

Secondly My goals are simple - primary goal: to spread atheism as much as I can by opening the eyes of religious fanatics ...............

what does atheism offer to human?
0
fineliving56
written by kope , October 28, 2012
you are filled with hates and that hates burning you inside and you dont even know it
0
Kope
written by fineliving56 , October 28, 2012
You said :'' I as a Muslim can fallow Buddha teachings if I like or agree to them ''

Kope … you are an apostate and you do not know it

Buddhists are nothing but a Kuffars to Islam … they pray to many Gods and in Quran they deserve to be killed … and YOU SAY YOU CAN FALLOW THEM IF YOU LIKE ???

You are an APOSTATE from Islam …. Kope welcome to sanity

You have a lot to work on, and change, in your thinking … like your love for dominating others.

Apostats left all that nonsense … we think all humans should be equal in everything .. and no one race in any way, should dominate another … that is a residue

congrats on your apostasy …Kope
0
apostate Kope
written by fineliving56 , October 28, 2012
You say I am filled with hate ???!!!

You …. who you say '' Islam will DOMINATE THE WORLD ''

THAT is NOT only hate, for everything non Muslim …. also, GREED and unplaced arrogance to say the least .
0
Kope
written by Kaser , October 28, 2012
Atheism anchors our lives in reality. Cold, hard reality.
It does not promise an "afterlife". It tells us that the life we live on earth is the only life we have. It is sanity. It is the true light after centuries of religious oppression.

As to what it brings to humanity, it brings us nothing other than that it forces us to define our own morals. To define, as a sentient race, the rules we will give ourselves to govern our societies.

Atheism allows us to detach ourselves from what is obviously false (creationism). It allows us to better ourselves through innovation and human right progress.

I could go on...
0
@ kope - God or no God?
written by This is Rami Rustom , October 28, 2012
> what does atheism offer to human?

The proper way to approach truth-seeking of a theory is to do the following: state a theory and note a rival theory, then criticize both theories, and criticize the criticisms. Then, whichever theory is left unrefuted, that theory is the true one, for now until a new criticism is created and the cycle continues.

The two rival theories in question are (1) God created the Multiverse, and (2) God doesn't exist.

Now lets look at your question. You asked, "what does atheism offer to humans?" I don't understand the point of this question. How does this help one understand which of the 2 theories is right?

In any case, if your question is a good one, then it should be asked about the other theory too. So: "what does religion offer to humans?"

I note that those questions are of the form: What are the pros for religion/atheism for humans?

Which raises the questions: What are the cons for religion/atheism for humans?
0
Kaser , / Rami Rustom ,
written by kope , October 28, 2012
do you know human civilization built by religious people?

can you name one country that built by atheist?
0
fineliving56
written by kope , October 28, 2012
fineliving56 , October 28, 2012

You say I am filled with hate ???!!!

You …. who you say '' Islam will DOMINATE THE WORLD ''

THAT is NOT only hate, for everything non Muslim …. also, GREED and unplaced arrogance to say the least ............


islam is beautiful religion, you like it or not islam will take over the world

.................................................................................................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAacOvy6DZg


0
Kope
written by xyz , October 28, 2012
"can you name one country that built by atheist?"

An Atheist or Atheists do not need a country or countries. This is why we say that religions divide humans into country and countries. Muslims have 72 branches of religion within Islam.
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To Reed Wilson
written by Archpagan , October 28, 2012
DADA Reed, there is no Islam other than the traditional one. Your Islam simply does not exist. By spirituality, we mean realization of the 'self' or soul'. But for Muslims, it's all about f***ing and killing the infidels.Terrorists get motivated by so-called 'Religious' leaders. So, how can one get any positive impression of Islam?
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Kope
written by xyz , October 28, 2012

Pakistan was created in the name of religion, than why every Pakistani, given a chance want to migrate to a secular country? I have never met a single Pakistani who Wishes to live and work in Saudi Arabia, but they would die to live in a non Islamic or a secular country.

0
...
written by Jye , October 28, 2012
Islam is a beautiful religion? Yeah, in the same way that Hitler was a beautiful person.
Twisted...
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Kope
written by xyz , October 28, 2012

Religion is hatred. Countries build on religious bases only produce hatred and are isolated.
0
Jye
written by abc , October 28, 2012

written by Jye , October 28
Yeah, in the same way that Hitler was a beautiful person.
Twisted...

I think you mean Christianity!
0
...
written by kope , October 28, 2012
written by xyz , October 28, 2012

"can you name one country that built by atheist?"

An Atheist or Atheists do not need a country or countries. This is why we say that religions divide humans into country and countries. Muslims have 72 branches of religion within Islam. ..................


atheists are uncivilised monkeys / apes you NEVER be able to produced a country
0
...
written by kope , October 28, 2012
written by xyz , October 28, 2012


Religion is hatred. Countries build on religious bases only produce hatred and are isolated.................................


all countries build on religious people not by atheists monkeys
0
...
written by kope , October 28, 2012
written by Jye , October 28, 2012

Islam is a beautiful religion? Yeah, in the same way that Hitler was a beautiful person.
Twisted... ..............


hitler was a beautiful person because he f**k white people of europe because of that white bastard free imperial colonies

refute that

hail hitler
0
abc
written by Jye , October 28, 2012
No, abc, I most definitely mean Islam.
What ever texts you can pull from Christianity to justify your sociopathical religion, you will always fail. Nowhere within the old testament does it instruct Christians (whom didn't even exist at the time of the old covenant) to go out and do the same. Where as we all know that Muslims are told to emulate the lunatic, psychopath, child raping, Mohammed, throughout their lives.

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Mohammed's Urge to Dominate
written by burke , October 28, 2012
Mohammed's urgent need to dominate others is exemplified by his choice of a little girl as his favourite consort.

Mohammed also remained a night in the grave with his aunt's corpse. Necrophilia?

This superman of sex loved victims who could not resist his advances. He beheaded 900 disarmed men, rather than exiling them, in order to seize their goods, lands, homes and chattels for himself, making him fabulously rich in one day. He gave people the choice of accepting Islam or death. In fact, the threat of violence was always a part of Mohammed's repertoire after arriving in Medina. Coerced sex is rape, no matter how you dress it up. If Muslims defend Mohammed's pedophilia, they are responsible for pedophilia today dressed up as child marriage. Pedophilia is an abuse of power and very destructive of the life of a woman.
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Modern Muslims 'make up' Mohammed
written by burke , October 28, 2012
Kaser's remark 'if I create my own religion' applies to modern Muslims who create their own version of the life of Mohammed so they do not feel humiliated by his amorality, recommendation of camel urine, adult breastfeeding and a host of other patently absurd ideas which come forth from 'authentic' (sahih) hadiths.

Muslims 'photoshop' Mohammed and remove all his warts, wrinkles and moles. Their version of Mohammed is pure fantasy, probably as much as the hadiths are. There is, in effect, no way of knowing what Mohammed was like, or even if this man existed, because the hadiths can not be independently validated. Islam is a big fantasy...a male-dominance fantasy.
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@ kope
written by This is Rami Rustom , October 28, 2012
> do you know human civilization built by religious people? can you name one country that built by atheist?

I don't understand the point of your question. The whole world was full of countries before people became atheists. And even today, there aren't many atheists, at least ones that have said so publicly. Is that a criticism of atheism? Of course not. I don't understand why you think this *is* a criticism of atheism.

Consider this question: When did people start believing in God (or the rudiments of the God idea)?

30,000 years ago, people started burying their dead with some of their belongings. Why? Because they believed in an afterlife. Why did they believe that? Did God tell them? Did a prophet tell them? No. They created the idea themselves.
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@ Kope
written by This is Rami Rustom , October 28, 2012
> atheists are uncivilised monkeys / apes you NEVER be able to produced a country

So now you're saying that realizing that the God idea is false automatically makes a person uncivilized?

How does that work? What is your explanation for that transformation?

The reality is that a person has moral ideas that he uses to guide his moral judgements. While he is a theist, he may or may not be adopting the moral code of his religion, while also adopting some of the moral code of his culture. What happens when a moral idea from his religion conflicts with a moral idea from his culture? Well, depending on his ideas about truth, he may side with the religion, or he may judge for himself, in which case he might go either way depending on the situation and his logic.

Then one day this person judges that God doesn't exist. Now what happens to his moral ideas and how he makes moral judgements? Well, some of his ideas that he got from religion are still there. For example, Sam Harris believes that *all lying is bad*. He's an atheist but he still believes this moral idea from Christianity. And its false. The truth is that lying is bad only when one's reasons for lying are bad. And lying is good when one's reasons for lying is good. For example, if a kid is interacting with a bully, its good to lie in order to save oneself from the suffering that would ensue from the bully.

So, is this person better or worse because he dropped the God idea? It depends on the person. Some atheists go the route of relative morality. They think that whatever is good for *me* is moral. And then they trample on other people. But that is immoral. So atheists like this are worse than theists. Hitler believed in relative morality.

But, some atheists go the route of objective morality (which by the way, is a core idea in Christianity). The truth is that morality is objective, not relative. So in every interaction between people, the moral choice is the one where nobody loses. That means every person's preferences were met. Nobody gets hurt.

Another dynamic is this. There are mistakes in the moral ideas of religions. So, as a theist, how does one correct those mistakes? He can't, unless... He'd have to twist the religion in various ways in order to correct his moral ideas while still believing in God (i.e. rationalizations).

What about the atheist? Without the religious authority of God, one has freedom to think for himself about the truth of his moral ideas. He can judge which ones are right and which are wrong. Over a period of time, he will have corrected many of those moral ideas.

So which is better? (1) Having corrected many of one's moral ideas? or (2) Not correcting any of one's moral ideas?
0
Kope, Rami
written by Kaser , October 28, 2012
Kope,
Again, you lose grip and ou have to call us uncivilized monkeys...
And then you throw a Heil Hitler in the mix.
Bravo. Your contempt and racism show through.

FYI Kope, humanity is only recently, timidly, carefully walking our of the Religion-age. Much like we had a bronze age, a renaissance, ect... We always had religion to define our moral and social guidelines, and to also explain our origin and purpose.

No more.

Rami - excellent argument. Indeed, the merits or faults of atheism do not in any way render it "a bad choice". Atheism is based on logic, science, mathematics, physics, ect...

But I guess you saw correctly that kope sees atheism as simply another form of belief - a completely wrong stance to take.

There is no faith involved with Atheism. Simply pure logic and the scientific process.
0
Just for fun - kope, abc, malem, READ THIS and explain
written by Kaser , October 28, 2012
This is the story of a little layer of powderred metal.
The metal is called Iridium. Look it up.
All over earth, there is a little layer of iridium. About the same thickness. In powderred form.
All over earth, this little layer happens to be in geological strata about 65 million years old. So it's way under our feet, and way old. WAY WAY older than the time our favorite religions say the earth was created.
Interestingly, 65 million years ago, a massive asteroid hit the earth near the Yucatan peninsule in Mexico. This made the MOTHER of all explosions. Covering the entire earth in smoke, explosion debris, ect...
(After this event, scientists can find very little dinosaur skelletons - explaining their extinction)
NOW THE INTERESTING part.
Iridium is rare on earth,but common in asteroids.
That 65 million year old layer of Iridium on earth is clearly explained by this massive impact that also killed the dinosaurs.

MUSLIM friends, can you please explain this scientific finding in regards to your belief that earth was created only a few thousand years ago?

Cheers,

0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , October 28, 2012
Kaser. You ask "MUSLIM friends, can you please explain this scientific finding in regards to your belief that earth was created only a few thousand years ago?

What do they believe? Dp they believe otherwise?
0
Another Islamic Jihadi P!g arrested
written by Rationalist , October 28, 2012
This Namak Haram (backstabber) Muslim is a Doctor by profession. He is arrested for terrorism-related activities.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/terror-probe-karnataka-doctor-among-3-wanted-from-saudi-arabia/1023019/

Never trust a Muslim, no matter what profession he/she practices.
0
To kope
written by Archpagan , October 28, 2012
Hi kope my boy, you don't know the basics of how modern human civilization came into being. It all started basing on three secular principles- Liberty, Equality and Fraternity. Muslims are backward because they discarded all three. The cause of backwardness lies with you.

Leave alone Hitler, my boy. Why are you blowing off your own people in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq? Have you developed gene of the lemmings?
0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , October 28, 2012
Archpagan. Thank you for "DADA Reed, there is no Islam other than the traditional one."

Following tradition is condemned and discouraged in Quran and also in Gospel. I have no study of Hindu religion but I can safely say that it must be forbidden there too.

وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمُ اتَّبِعُوا مَا أَنزَلَ اللَّـهُ قَالُوا بَلْ نَتَّبِعُ مَا أَلْفَيْنَا عَلَيْهِ آبَاءَنَا ۗ أَوَلَوْ كَانَ آبَاؤُهُمْ لَا يَعْقِلُونَ شَيْئًا وَلَا يَهْتَدُونَ

When it is said to them, "Follow the "Commands that Allah has sent down," they reply, "We will follow only what we found our forefathers practicing. Well, will they go on following their forefathers even though they did not use common sense and did not find the right way? 2:170

وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ تَعَالَوْا إِلَىٰ مَا أَنزَلَ اللَّـهُ وَإِلَى الرَّسُولِ قَالُوا حَسْبُنَا مَا وَجَدْنَا عَلَيْهِ آبَاءَنَا ۚ أَوَلَوْ كَانَ آبَاؤُهُمْ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ شَيْئًا وَلَا يَهْتَدُونَ

"When they are asked: 'Come to what Allah has revealed, and come to the Messenger', they reply: 'The way of our forefathers suffices us.' (Will they continue to follow their forefathers) even though their forefathers might have known nothing, and might have been on the wrong way? 5:104

My friend duh_swami could agree that Islam resides in Quran only. Those attribute other sources, have no valid logic.
0
Most virile religion
written by Montegue , October 28, 2012
In the acclamation of Mohammad’s sexual potency of 40 men, Islam proclaims itself the most virile among all religions on earth.

In Hadith, Mohammad was depicted to have spent his entire life craving sex, “Aisha said: Magic was worked on Allah’s Apostle so that he used to think that he had sexual relations with his wives while he actually had not,” which explain why he was sexually insane, such that he would indiscriminately thrust his penis into just about any orifice he could find to gratify his sexual thirst. Among other sexual acts, besides with living women, he practiced the acts with men, children, and dead women. With men, the hadith says, “A man named Zahir who used to declare that ‘the prophet loves me,’ said that one day Muhammad crept unawares behind him. Zahir, alarmed, yelled, “Get off me!” After turning his head and discovering that it was Muhammad he stopped struggling and proceeded to push his back into the prophet’s chest;” with dead women, the hadith says, “ The Messenger of Allah took off his shirt and put it on Umm Ali, and slept with her in her grave,” which is why Muslim practice it, for which Islamists in Egypt propose the legislation of necrophilia law, which hadith propounded 16 times to be absolutely sanctioned by the examples in Muhammad, with further instruction on how to observe the practice: “Do not rewash the deceased after having sexual inter course with a dead women;” with children, the hadith says, “He, the Prophet, put Hussein’s legs apart and kissed his penis”

Islam, by its instruction to its believers, is the only religion that purveys sexual perversity and encourage the believers to emulate these practices following the examples of their prophet, as the Quran assures it is absolutely pleasing to Allah, “And most surely you conform yourself to sublime morality.”

Islam, contrary to Muslims’ denial, approves pedophilia, necrophilia, polygamy, homosexual, etc. Thus, it glorifies Mohammad’s sexual powerless, and uses it as a marking tool to the most sexually insane men to bring them into the fold. As a group, it is a metal asylum of the most sexually insane inhabitants of the earth.
0
Tradition.
written by Reed Wilson. , October 28, 2012
Archpagan. I have given following translation in my above post:

"When they are asked: 'Come to what Allah has revealed, and come to the Messenger', they reply: 'The way of our forefathers suffices us.''


The Arabic word الرَّسُولِ is used both for messenger and the message. It should rather be message as there is no more messenger.

It should therefore be:

"When they are asked: 'Come to what Allah has revealed, and come to the Message', they reply: 'The way of our forefathers suffices us.'

(May fineliving skip above).
0
Reed Wilson
written by Kaser , October 28, 2012
Islam having it's roots in Christianity, Muslims must believe that earth was created 6000 years ago.

Excerpt from www.creationtips.com:
"If we go back 6000 years, we come to the time of Creation, and Adam and Eve (4004 BC). Luke, evangelist and historian, records Adam as the first man (Luke 3:38)."
"The earth is about 6000 years old. Let God's people rejoice in Him who made them! (Psalm 149:2)"
0
Reed Wilson
written by Kaser , October 28, 2012
There is also another explanation to the Iridium layer Reed....
...That god, when creating earth - purposefully put it there!
-To confuse us;
-To test us;
-To challenge us.
Like putting all those dinosaur fossils...
Like creating carbon dating...
Like everything else.
0
...
written by - , October 28, 2012
too much nonsene
0
...
written by Monetgue , October 28, 2012
In the acclamation of Mohammad’s sexual potency of 40 men, Islam proclaims itself the most virile among all religions on earth.

In Hadith, Mohammad was depicted to have spent his entire life craving sex, “Aisha said: Magic was worked on Allah’s Apostle so that he used to think that he had sexual relations with his wives while he actually had not,” which explain why he was sexually insane, such that he would indiscriminately thrust his penis into just about any orifice he could find to gratify his sexual thirst. Among other sexual acts, besides with living women, he practiced the acts with men, children, and dead women. With men, the hadith says, “A man named Zahir who used to declare that ‘the prophet loves me,’ said that one day Muhammad crept unawares behind him. Zahir, alarmed, yelled, “Get off me!” After turning his head and discovering that it was Muhammad he stopped struggling and proceeded to push his back into the prophet’s chest;” with dead women, the hadith says, “ The Messenger of Allah took off his shirt and put it on Umm Ali, and slept with her in her grave,” which is why Muslim practice it, for which Islamists in Egypt propose the legislation of necrophilia law, which hadith propounded 16 times to be absolutely sanctioned by the examples in Muhammad, with further instruction on how to observe the practice: “Do not rewash the deceased after having sexual inter course with a dead women;” with children, the hadith says, “He, the Prophet, put Hussein’s legs apart and kissed his penis”

Islam, by its instruction to its believers, is the only religion that purveys sexual perversity and encourage the believers to emulate these practices following the examples of their prophet, as the Quran assures it is absolutely pleasing to Allah, “And most surely you conform yourself to sublime morality.”

Islam, contrary to Muslims’ denial, approves pedophilia, necrophilia, polygamy, homosexual, etc. Thus, it glorifies Mohammad’s sexual powerless, and uses it as a marking tool to the most sexually insane men to bring them into the fold. As a group, it is a metal asylum of the most sexually insane inhabitants of the earth.
0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , October 28, 2012
Archpagan. You write "Most familiar verse in the Gita is 4:7. It goes thus:... Should I consider you as the avatar promised herein?

I will not come out of Internet. Can the 'avtar' be behind the internet? He will have to show up. Reed can not be the one.
0
...
written by Montegue , October 28, 2012
Test post
0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , October 28, 2012
Archpagan. You write "Most familiar verse in the Gita is 4:7. It goes thus:... Should I consider you as the avatar promised herein?

I will not come out of Internet. Can the 'avtar' be behind the internet? He will have to show up. Reed can not be the one.
0
Kope
written by fineliving56 , October 28, 2012
I just to point out … your Hate is all over your posts

Your hate for white people blinded you to the point of no return … let me guess, you are a black man/women ?

At least my hate for Islam [ which I do not deny and for countless factual reasons ] is FOR Islam ….A thing ….. an idea … Islam is nothing but, bunch of BAD Ideas, put together in a book, for the purpose of controlling women, to have more power and to gain riches .

The BAD Idea of Allah and IT'S Inferno [Jahhanam], and his virgin whore house [Jannah], helped to enforce and establish among the ignorant minds of 7 century humans .

Your hate is so great that you hail a WHITE man who is responsible for killing millions of people , just because he messed up OTHER WHITE men of Europe … WOW

As a black man/woman, does your hate and discrimination against whites people , EQUALS that of white people against Black people …

I live in the US … I see hidden and not so hidden discrimination … white against black … Black against black … Black against white …

Do you think that is a good way to live among others ? … What is in a color of a skin?



0
...
written by kope , October 28, 2012
To kope
written by Archpagan , October 28, 2012

Hi kope my boy, you don't know the basics of how modern human civilization came into being. It all started basing on three secular principles- Liberty, Equality and Fraternity. Muslims are backward because they discarded all three. The cause of backwardness lies with you.

Leave alone Hitler, my boy. Why are you blowing off your own people in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq? Have you developed gene of the lemmings? ..............


my son Archpagan

did you forgot we were your master for thousand years?

we were super power once
0
Kope
written by Kaser , October 28, 2012
Enlighten us Kope
You were a "Super-power" once?
Is that the source of your boiling hatred? - That you no longer belong to a group that has nay power?
0
...
written by kope , October 28, 2012
no, we still kick ass
0
To Reed Wilson, kope
written by Archpagan , October 28, 2012
Yes Reed, I agree Mohammad created revolutionary change in medieval Arabia by breaking off tradition. Such revolution brought benefit to Arabs for next three hundred years. But after that Islam had become obsolete and the west forged ahead, because Islamic world refused to look beyond their tradition and entertain a spirit of inquiry and reform. But what you advocate here is no reform at all.

Hi kope my boy, thank you for providing me some comic relief. I got bored after wading through a legal document. BTW, what's the meaning of your name? In Sanskrit language 'Kope' (or Kopi) means monkey.
0
Why are Muslims doing so many stupid things?
written by Gnostic , October 28, 2012
They are desperately trying to provide evidence that there is no evolution!
0
Fineliving can not skip when a mistake is clearly made … Al Rasool and Risalah are different words
written by fineliving56 , October 28, 2012
In the Aya 5/104 Reed sited … the word Alrasool meant to be for '' Muhammad '' the messenger and no one else .

AL RASOOL … is masculine noun to call the MAN '' Muhammad and all other prophets

Al RISALAH … is a noun to call the THING OR IDEA '' message'' that Muhammad supposedly brought .

There is a huge difference between the two in the sentences they came in, in Quran … and there is NO mistaken, the two at all … anyone even the non arab should differentiate the two from each others in translating

Only the people who are trying to fool people or confused about the Arabic language, would do that .

AGAIN IN QURAN 5/104 ...AL RASOOL IS A ''THE MESSENGER'' Muhammad .

0
Archpagan
written by kope , October 28, 2012
in my language kope mean i am your big daddy
0
Kope kicks ass
written by Infidel and More Proud , October 29, 2012
Yes mulims kick ass. They kick other muslims ass a lot..
Need examples look no further then Pakistan, Afganistan, Syria etc. etc.
0
insufficient guidance given by allah
written by 1proudkaffur4life , October 29, 2012
It is sooo funny when Muslims invoke “science” as part of their arguments. The quran lacks any scientific truths whatsoever! Then when they realize that their “stories” in the hadiths are equally useless they just drop them, creating a situation in which they do not know anything HOW their profeet really acted in life. Oh yeah “Reed Wilson” here f.e. quoted twice the same passages, confirming that his lice-ridden profeet is just like any other regular Joe, (except he received revelations) how can Muslims today look at their profeet and see him as the “best example” when NOTHING is KNOWN about him? How did he behave in a given situation? And what is more funny is these Muslims like “Reed” insist that the quran is faultless, yet one can NOT be sure how this book came into existence or when it was written, if one rejects all stories about the early stages of Islam. Sorry but BLIND faith alone is NOT sufficient.

Quote:
When it is said to them, "Follow the "Commands that Allah has sent down," they reply, "We will follow only what we found our forefathers practicing. Well, will they go on following their forefathers even though they did not use common sense and did not find the right way? 2:170
End quote.

Well “Reed” may I remind you that your demented stoned-gawd allah claims to have send the Old Testament (giving the Psalms to David etc. etc.) as well as the New Testament as his “guidance”. Did allah give a inferior version of his truth to the Jews while telling them that his laws and instructions are sufficient for them? Actually I could not trust a “gawd/deity” who at least twice abrogates his truth. How can Muslims be sure that their demented stoned-gawd will not replace the quran with something better, since he did the same to the Jews and Christians, by declaring their guidance he gave as insufficient.
0
Raymond
written by Malem , October 29, 2012
The author of this article should really find another profession, what drivel this was. Who are this supposed SOURCES he says have provided this data, funny he never states that. If we believed every story we heard we would thing the West has crazy presidents that have illegitimate sex in the white house. Oh wait a minute that did happen, lets just say this is another fable and only the perverted would latch on to it, like several posters have
0
Malem, a reference
written by Kaser , October 29, 2012
Here you go Malem:
http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/re...1.005.268
Nice to see you are back!
0
Another fun read for Malem, and everybody else
written by Kaser , October 29, 2012
0
kope is a sack of shit, just like Malem
written by bunny ole , October 29, 2012
more like the sexual virility of 4,000 perverted pissrags

Malem, muslims DO believe every ''story'' they ever heard, if it follows the lines of whatever suits them. Muslims hear a rumor some christians did this or that, so ravening mobs foaming at the mouth murder some christians. Your hypocrisy is sickening.

Kope, honestly, nobody gives a shit what you say or think. You're functionally retarded.

Muslims kick ass, and by that I assume you mean 'murder and assault' because besides rape that is your favorite pastime.
0
Bad link above...
written by Kaser , October 29, 2012
0
bunny ole
written by kope , October 29, 2012
i never raped your mama just ask her
0
Story
written by Montegue , October 29, 2012
Good article, perfect fro non-Muslims. Keep them coming and let the world know more about the rotten religion of Camel piss drinkers.
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Kope
written by Kaser , October 29, 2012
Thank you kope, another jewel.
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Kope
written by Kaser , October 29, 2012
Forgot to ask...
Which ass do you still kick?
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To Reed Wilson
written by Archpagan , October 29, 2012
DADA, please go through the above post of fineliving 56. I am convinced that she is right and you are wrong. Both message and messenger being noun, linguistically they can't be interchangeable.
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Mr.
written by MGB , October 29, 2012
This is a correction to an earlier response under the heading "And Yet".

Mohammad did have a boy born to him. But this son died when he
was just 8 years old, giving him a lot of grief.
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Mo's teachings
written by non believer , October 29, 2012
Ultimately Mo's teachings can be summarised as a treatise on "usage of sword and penis". That's all Islam is about. It is spread by usage of either or both.
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Only Allah knows!
written by anders , October 29, 2012
written by 1proudkaffur4life , October 29, 2012

It is sooo funny when Muslims invoke “science” as part of their arguments. The quran lacks any scientific truths whatsoever! Then when they realize that their “stories” in the hadiths are equally useless they just drop them, creating a situation in which they do not know anything HOW their profeet really acted in life. Oh yeah “Reed Wilson” here f.e. quoted twice the same passages, confirming that his lice-ridden profeet is just like any other regular Joe, (except he received revelations) how can Muslims today look at their profeet and see him as the “best example” when NOTHING is KNOWN about him? How did he behave in a given situation? And what is more funny is these Muslims like “Reed” insist that the quran is faultless, yet one can NOT be sure how this book came into existence or when it was written, if one rejects all stories about the early stages of Islam. Sorry but BLIND faith alone is NOT sufficient.

Anbsolutlely right- The Quran only brigade undermine the authority of the Quran - as it can only be understood by reading the hadith and Sirat.Otherwise it's all in its own bubble of no context - that's why Ibn Kathir etc explains the Quran using the hadith!
I submit he had more authority in his lilttle finger than Reed would have in a thousand years- of course the Quran consistently says Mo is the role model for Muslims but what role/bahaviours does Allah mean without the context from the hadths & Sirat? Only Allah knows!!!!And he doesn't say so in the Quran!
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Muslims kick butt really
written by Infidel and More Proud , October 29, 2012
Shia kick sunni butt in Syria.
Sunni kick shia but in Bahrain.
Sunni kick Shia butt in Saudi.

Sunni kick shia and Ahmedi butt in Pakistan

Quran and Hadith Muslims kick Quran only muslims butt all over.
Wahabis kick Sufi muslims butt all over.

And the best comes from Muslims animals (according to RW all animals are muslims including pigs) kick muslim butt on eid. 150 plus reported injured with 1 dead.

Kope I love this butt kicking. Keep it up ....
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Infidel
written by Kaser , October 29, 2012
Well said, No other peaceful religion kicks as many butts as Islam
It's like they have a passion for butts...
Wait - they do:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnLTHHpKl60
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Kope
written by fineliving56 , October 29, 2012
Muslims act like type of sneaks which [ eat them self it looked like a bloody giant rubber band when it having lunch on it self .

Have you seen a video of such phenomenon ? … I sow that, 2 days ago, somewhere on the net, and I was amazed … but not shocked …look what, the Muslims brothers doing to each others, with no mercy ?

Do you think, it is evolution at work? … is it trying to get rid of bad violent creatures like the these snakes [ Muslims ], that are walking on this earth and they are nothing but danger to others who are peaceful ….

Muslims are killing Muslims everywhere, it seems, THAT happens , when they are taking a break from killing non Muslims .

Syria is a fine example right now …

The terrorest organization of Al Qaida is in the streets of Aleppo right now … they have been killing Allawaeen under the disguise of Syrian Uprise [ down sizing ] … Syrian civilians have revealed that,they have been hearing a strange *Arabic accents* that is NOT SYRIANS ACCENT AROUND THEM, FIGHTING AS * SUNNIS SYRIANS *

I like to ask you a question, Muslim Kope … try to answer please after all the bragging you have been doing here with all the '' kick ass '' and '' dominate the world '' nonsense .

DO YOU SPPORT THE TERRORIST ORGANISATION AL QAIDA ?

I will wait for your answer ?






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Archpagan
written by fineliving56 , October 29, 2012
Reed has been, shifting,omitting,switching,replacing,hiding and adding things in Quran, as you well know .

The latest attempt to justify Quran is the words "messenger and message '' … I have a strong feeling that the reason for his latest and useless attempt is this :

In Reed's mind, Muhammad the prophet of Islam, is nothing but [b ]liability heavy weight that Quran is riddled with … who could blame him, with such ayes like 33/50- 51 and others, that makes Muhammad look, Greedy, womanizer and down right thug .

So Reed is trying to change meaning of Arabic words in Ayas 5/104 and others where Muhammad was mentioned …

For Reed, to change, the word AL RASSOL [ MESSENGER ] to AL RISALAH [ MESSAGE ] in 5/104 … that will be, one less problem to deal with, and to explain away the countless problems Muhammad's sicking acts and antics is creating for him .

To sum it up …… * Reed want the message, without the messenger *

Too bad for him … THAT is an impossibility .

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Bunny
written by Malem , October 30, 2012
Not sure where you hopped in from lad but these "stories" you mention are not part of Islam. The Quran prohibits it. Now to know that you will need to be able to read the Quran in its native form, which I will bet that a little rabbit cannot do.
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Malem
written by Kaser , October 30, 2012
You said:
"...Now to know that you will need to be able to read the Quran in its native form, which I will bet that a little rabbit cannot do"

Golly gosh darn - You mean I need to learn Arabic to understand the revelations of god ?!?!

Could not your "god" give us a break and send us Qurans in our own native language? I'm sure it would be easy for him...
...you know, him being almighty, and all powerful...
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Four lettered
written by Muktar Ahmed Mukul , October 30, 2012
f****** is at the core of Islam
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Malman and Quran in Arabic
written by Infidel and More Proud , October 30, 2012
Malman please blow your trumpet at your brotheren who are wasting their and others time translating Quran AKA Sahih Muslim, Muhsin Khan, Pickthall, Yusuf Ali, Shakir, Dr. Ghau li to name a few.
Oh wait a minute dont Arab speakers need tafsir as well for thay also dont understand Quran in its original form. Arent you kidding yourself by non stop Takiya when even Arabic speaking dont understand the meaning of quran.
For a starter what is Alif , Lam, Meem. If you dont know this then all you preach is horse shit.
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fineliving56
written by kope , October 30, 2012
fineliving56

DO YOU SPPORT THE TERRORIST ORGANISATION AL QAIDA ? .......................



i support you, pamala , robert spencer, wilder geert, edl, david wood, richard dawkin

why do i support anti muslims guys?

because you guys going to f**k west not AL QAIDA or muslims because they have no power but you do have power to f**k west







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Infidel
written by Malem , October 30, 2012
I never stated that translating was a waste of time, I stated that reading it in its orginal form was the preferred way to fully understand it. As for the three words you mentioned, you do not mention them in any context so one could only surmise that they are the letters of the Arabic alphabet and would be similar to A, L, M. Now maybe you partake in the enjoyment of horse feces, I am not sure but good luck with that, whatever you do with it lad. As for understanding the Quran, you really need to master the classical Arabic and not the butchered street of the levant etc. This is because classic arabic words can have several meanings. THis point alone is why many people on this website are ignorant to the real meaning of the Quran. Reed tries his best to explain but most people, like yourself, dont want to hear anything except your own voice, saying the same false lies over and over and over lad. Gets boring doesnt it? Ciao'
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Malem
written by Kaser , October 30, 2012
While others willfully blind themselves to the violent, oppressive nature of the Quran, blaming us, as always, for not understanding.

Get obvious after a while no?
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kaser
written by Malem , October 30, 2012
You must have a guilty conscience lad, no one blamed anyone in my posts. tsk tsk tsk sounds like you are the the one whining here.
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Islam the Insane
written by Angry Ant , October 30, 2012
All this 'discussion' is wasted time and hot air; Islamists are all insane, as per their mad religion.
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Malem
written by Kaser , October 30, 2012
You said: ... but most people, like yourself, dont want to hear anything except your own voice ...
This is laying blame on us for being closed to arguments.
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Ant and Kaser
written by Malem , October 30, 2012
Kaser, no blame, just stating an opinion, you might need someone to explain the difference to you, ask the ant man.
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MUSLIMS WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND/TRY TO UNDERSTAND THEY R FREAKIN BRAIN DEAD ZOMBIES
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON , October 30, 2012
MUSLIMS WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND/TRY TO UNDERSTAND THEY R FREAKIN BRAIN DEAD ZOMBIES.

I CAN VOUCH THIS AS AN EXMUSLIM.WHEN I SHOW KORAN AND AHDITH AND COMPARE IT TO OTHER TEACHINGS OF GANDHI/BUDDHA AND PROVE THEY R BETTER MUSLIMS [ INCL MY OWN RELATIVES ] THREATEN ME WITH DEATH.

SO MUSLIMS R BRAIN DEAD ZOMBIES.

AT THE SAME TIME I WILL SAY WE MUST KEEP UP OUR STRUGGLE AGAINST JUDEO-XTIANITY-JIHADISLAM SO FINALLY HUMANITY WILL WIN.

WE CANT STOP BUT GO ON.


JAI KAFIR HIND
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MUSLIMS R BRAIN DEAD ZOMBIES BUT WE CANT GIVE UP...WE HV TO FIGHT TILL HUMANITY WINS
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON , October 30, 2012
MUSLIMS R BRAIN DEAD ZOMBIES BUT WE CANT GIVE UP...WE HV TO FIGHT TILL HUMANITY WINS.

if we pour water over a hard rock long enuf it wears down.same way we hv to persist till islam is defeated.
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Translation of Quran
written by Gnostic , October 30, 2012
If the quran would be so easy to understand as claimed by the quran itself, there would be no trouble with translations either.

But the quran makes that claim repeatedly over and over again and even arabs are heaviliy disputing how to understand the quran. And this makes it so easy to say that any non-arab cannot understand it and is thus, not compentent.

It is possible to translate ANY text which clear and easy to understand. Even from chinese into esperanto and back into chinese. At least it would be possible to explain some difficulties deriving from different meanings.

What Malem does is the strategy of all scribes who try to monopolize their business: To claim that others cannot understand the quran. This is wrong because there is in fact nobody who can understand all because there is so much nonsense or at least parts which are still waiting for the right translation or interpretation. There are approaches to use aramaeic but we have to wait and see.

I think that already the guys around Uthman did not really understand what they had in their hands .
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The best part.....
written by Brown Superman , October 30, 2012
The best part is .... the muslims show their butts to be kicked, when in prayers. An the meccan cube, they do not bother whom they show their butts to.......... Sunnis, shia, wahabbis or gays.
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Yes Malem,
written by Brown Superman , October 30, 2012
Malem, this writer ought to change his profession....... probably he will perform better entertaining muslimahs at the park. Instead of the muslimahs entertaining old christian men.
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MUSLIMS R BRAINDEAD PATHOLOGICAL LIAR ZOMBIES....SO JUST KEEP UP TILL THEY BECOME HUMAN BEINGS
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROOON , October 30, 2012
MUSLIMS R BRAINDEAD PATHOLOGICAL LIAR ZOMBIES....SO JUST KEEP UP TILL THEY BECOME HUMAN BEINGS
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Sex at 56
written by Truth , October 30, 2012
There seems to be some problem about the stories of sexual escapades of Mohammad. At the age of 56 when ejaculation is likely to be less he started marrying so many wives and having sex slaves. How is it possible?
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...
written by Reed Wilson. , October 30, 2012
Gnostic. You write "If the quran would be so easy to understand as claimed by the quran itself, there would be no trouble with translations either."

Yes Gnostic if you know Arabic language you dont need translating Quran.
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...
written by Reed Wilson. , October 30, 2012
Islam-watch Pastor. You write "You are the Quran agrees with the Hadiths that Moh was a sexual pervert with the permission of Allah but Reed believes that the Quran dignified his Prophet more than the hadith so he rejects the hadith."

You need not believing Reed. The book is there. See for yourself. Quran does not dignifies any. All apostles are referred in Quran as abd or servant and as a messenger. Both abd and messenger are not regal.

Muhammad is asked to declare in Quran that he was a man like any person except he received message.
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...
written by Reed Wilson. , October 30, 2012
kope. Thank you. You write "i think you are too dogmatic like those dumb salifis or wahabis"

No brother. I dont even know them. If Budha is following God, I have no problem in following him I seek in Sura fatiha as:

اهْدِنَا الصِّرَاطَ الْمُسْتَقِيمَ ﴿٦﴾ صِرَاطَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِمْ غَيْرِ الْمَغْضُوبِ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا الضَّالِّينَ

Budha could be one of them. We can find it. I recite Quran 31:7 for you:

وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يَشْتَرِي لَهْوَ الْحَدِيثِ لِيُضِلَّ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّـهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَيَتَّخِذَهَا هُزُوًا ۚ أُولَـٰئِكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ مُّهِينٌ ﴿٦﴾ وَإِذَا تُتْلَىٰ عَلَيْهِ آيَاتُنَا وَلَّىٰ مُسْتَكْبِرًا كَأَن لَّمْ يَسْمَعْهَا كَأَنَّ فِي أُذُنَيْهِ وَقْرًا ۖ فَبَشِّرْهُ بِعَذَابٍ أَلِيمٍ

"There are some people who buy distracting stories, to lead astray from the Path of Allah without knowledge, and make the path of Allah a mockery; for those is a humiliating punishment." The word hadis is used in the text.

I recite one more verse 12:111 for you

لَقَدْ كَانَ فِي قَصَصِهِمْ عِبْرَةٌ لِّأُولِي الْأَلْبَابِ ۗ مَا كَانَ حَدِيثًا يُفْتَرَىٰ وَلَـٰكِن تَصْدِيقَ الَّذِي بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ وَتَفْصِيلَ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ

"Verily in their accounts is a lesson for men of wisdom. This is not a fictitious tale (in text حَدِيثًا يُفْتَرَىٰ) , but a verification of earlier Books, and a clear exposition of everything, and a guidance and grace for those who believe."

kope, Quran does not allow me at all to follow hadis. This is how I gather from it. I will not ask you to have same conclusion. You can tell me your findings.

Kope when we read 10:15, 10:35 we are told that only Allah is worthy of following. We will discuss that if you like.

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Quran
written by Gnostic , October 30, 2012
According to my knowledge many arabs do not understand much of the quran because it is not modern arabic or not modern spoken arabic. But there are even parts muslim scribes do not understand as well as many errors and contradictions.

But even if not, what does Reed and what do all the other muslims expect from other people? That we all learn arabic? Why not chinese in order to learn chinese classics and believe in them? Or that we all believe in the nonsense lads like Malem are telling us? No, never!

It is already a shame that young boys have to learn arabic letters in order to memorize the quran without understanding it - this is evidence for the infreiority of muslim thinking. Muslims believe in a kind magic like people from the stone age and that the truth depends on the arabic language - all total nonsense!

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Gnostic
written by Malem , October 31, 2012
>According to my knowledge many arabs do not understand much of the quran because it is not modern arabic or not modern spoken arabic<

Wrong, Arabs who speak proper Arabic can understand the Quran fine which is the majority. So your knowledge is pretty dismal in this case

>But even if not, what does Reed and what do all the other muslims expect from other people?

If you want to read Arabic, you will need to learn it. Or you can go to a local mosque and listen to it. Or you can read one of the translations that has footnotes to explain the Surahs in context. Its not hard, takes a little effort.

If you want to read a Chinese religious book, even they will tell you the best way to is to read it in Chinese. Some words do not translate well and many words in Arabic have several meanings. Not nonesense, just pure fact.

>It is already a shame that young boys have to learn arabic letters in order to memorize the quran without understanding it

No they learn Arabic letters so they can learn to read and write, normal course of education in most countries. What magic are you refering to? The Quran doesnt mention magic?
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Arabic
written by Gnostic , October 31, 2012
There is no doubt that arabic, the language of the quran is behind other major languages in many aspects. Even in many arab countries, the academic language at universities is french or english because many modern words are difficult or impossible to express in arabic.

I do not think that the world is in need for islam or arabic. The arab world is in need for modern science and not for a cult that teaches that every muslim has to stone the devil once in his lifetime. This is what I am talking about. that islam is a magic cult without menanigful philosophy but with a stone age thinking.

It is forbidden to destroy a quran which is nothing more than some paper for 5 Dollars. But many muslims would kill for 5 Dollars or a quran. To think that it is necessary to do the ritual washings and praying five times a day - isnt this a waste of time?

Students in Japan or China learn up to 13 hours a day - how can people achieve this if they waste 2 or 3 hours a day for praying and maybe even more for reciting and memorizing the quran?

Consider that if all these memorizer die their knowledge will be away too - but if you spend the time to create something it will be always there.
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Gnostic
written by Kaser , October 31, 2012
Ohhh man, you're in deep doodoo now - talking trash to Malem like that!!!
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Malem
written by Gnostic , October 31, 2012
Malem is only trying to turn away. He knows that many young muslims are only memorizing without understanding the language. They learn arab letters but not the language in countries like Pakistan.

The term magic refers to the view that humans have to perform certain rituals in order to receive the support of god. But why not just doing useful things instead? Praying is not useful at all, there is absolutely no evidence that it ever helped anybody and there will never be any evidence for it.

The same is with performing haji, kissing the Kaaba, praying in direction of Mekka, all this is the level of primitive pre-historic thinking before the advent of advanced philosophy.

There is even black magic in use in islam: Muslims sometimes cast curses against others, we can hear this every day: May Allah punish him and so on! How can people believe that god likes to hear such things!
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brother Reed Wilson
written by kope , October 31, 2012
salam

you wrote kope, Quran does not allow me at all to follow hadis. This is how I gather from it. I will not ask you to have same conclusion. You can tell me your findings.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

do you believe that non muslims go to heaven those who dont follow quran?

do you believe that muslims go to heaven those who follow hadis?


please answer i am waiting
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Gnostic
written by Malem , October 31, 2012
You are still struggling with the difference between your opinion and fact eh lad? When you state "I do not think that the world is in need for islam or arabic" that is your opinion, which I respect everyone to have their own. It is far from fact though.

I am in a Arab country and where I live people excel in their studies, are there challenges with a growing country, yes there sure are, but you dont blame it on language or religion. Is China the model you want o emulate? If that is the case I can surely point out the downside there lad. As I said there are many succesful people where i am located, doctors, dentists, bankers, etc. Sure there are people who have not risen up as much as others whether due to finances or other challenges but they are still part of our culture and our family so we help them. Thats what a family does.

You do not find prayer useful, so dont pray. I find it relaxing and a way to communicate to Allah, so I do it. Your claim I am running is laughable, I am here lad, not hiding, addressing your claims no matter how outlandish they be. FYI praying takes about 20 minutes per day, that is much less than all the smoking and coffee breaks people take in the west. So before you cast stones, look at your own house lad. Your losing more jobs than anywhere because of factors like uneducated work force, lack of work ethic etc..

Peace
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Individual rights@ Malem
written by Gnostic , October 31, 2012
You say that everybody is free to pray or not to pray. This would be nice but there are islamic scholars who released fatwas that everybody has to pray. In many countries people are forced to pray by law and even in more liberal countries the pressure is very high.

According to some recent information, the number of atheists or agnostics is on the rise in some countries but many of them are still forced to pretend to pray. Of course here is a deficit of islam and maybe other reliigions as well.

How can we know that all people who are praying are also believing? We cannot, of course, and this makes it very doubtful.

Is the one who does pray without believing better than somebody who believes without praying?

Why believing anyway? Do you believe in all commercial ads you read? No, because that would be stupid. But why is believing in islam without any doubt not stupid?

0
...
written by xyz , October 31, 2012
"FYI praying takes about 20 minutes per day, that is much less than all the smoking and coffee breaks people take in the west."

Big lie. Each prayer will take minimum 20 mts or more with abolution if Malem is not fart proof. Five prayers a day will make 100 minutes and these are obligatory unlike drinking coffee or smoking. Preferably in a mosque for men.

First prayer is like 4 O clock in the morning so one cannot complete his sleep for going to work. This is the reason Muslims cannot do better work. And than consistent breaks for the prayers and praying will divert their minds from work to " after life"

Along with prayers reciting of Quran is also a must everyday to gain more sawab.

Also their are many prayers to do for each action of a Muslim . Basically a Muslim wants to pray whole day. And do not forget praying late hours in the night has many more benefits and sawab for a Muslim. It is very much recommended.
0
...
written by xyz , October 31, 2012

Non Arabs do not even know what they are reading during namaz or reciting Quran.

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re: above xyz
written by Gnostic , October 31, 2012
And there are also many muslims smoking and drinking tea or coffee. I would even say that many arabs and, of course, indonesians smoke much more than westerners like shishas and so on.

Malem is also wrong about islamic societies. Undereducation is a widespread problem in islamic countries but not so much in the west.

And isnt it obvious that praying prevents people from action? The islamic fatalism, is, inshallah, dragging the people back and down into stagnation.
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@ Malem
written by This is Rami Rustom , October 31, 2012
> You do not find prayer useful, so dont pray. I find it relaxing

You can relax doing other stuff besides praying. Like meditation. Or watching tv.

> and a way to communicate to Allah, so I do it.

You mean he talks back to you? What does tell you?

If Allah talked to me, I'd go back to Islam and I'd pray.
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Brother kope.
written by Reed Wilson. , November 01, 2012
You ask "Do you believe that non muslims go to heaven those who dont follow quran?

I believe in Quran, the message of Allah which you also do. My understanding may differ but our source is same.

The verses of Quran which trigger to answer your question, I submit.

نَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَالَّذِينَ هَادُوا وَالنَّصَارَىٰ وَالصَّابِئِينَ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّـهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًا فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ

Surely the believers and the Jews, Christians and converts, whoever believes in God and the Last Day, and whosoever does right, shall have their reward with their Lord and will neither have fear nor regret. Quran 2:62

َقَالَتِ الْيَهُودُ لَيْسَتِ النَّصَارَىٰ عَلَىٰ شَيْءٍ وَقَالَتِ النَّصَارَىٰ لَيْسَتِ الْيَهُودُ عَلَىٰ شَيْءٍ وَهُمْ يَتْلُونَ الْكِتَابَ ۗ كَذَٰلِكَ قَالَ الَّذِينَ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ مِثْلَ قَوْلِهِمْ ۚ فَاللَّـهُ يَحْكُمُ بَيْنَهُمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ فِيمَا كَانُوا فِيهِ يَخْتَلِفُونَ

"The Jews say that the Christians have nothing of the truth and the Christians say that the Jews have nothing of it, though both read the scripture. And those who have no knowledge of the Scripture also make similar claims. Allah will surely give His judgment on the Day of Resurrection in all the matters in which they differ." Quran 2:113
(I think following the book of Allah was enough)

وَلْيَحْكُمْ أَهْلُ الْإِنجِيلِ بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللَّـهُ فِيهِ ۚ وَمَن لَّمْ يَحْكُم بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللَّـهُ فَأُولَـٰئِكَ هُمُ الْفَاسِقُونَ

Let the followers of the Injeel judge (decide) by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors. 5:47

You ask "do you believe that muslims go to heaven those who follow hadis?

I think 31:6 and 12:111 answer your question. I wish I had your email to give more elaborate answer. Issues like this call for many quotations from Quran. I hope you will seek guidance from the Book. Do tell me your findings.
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Rami
written by abc , November 01, 2012
You never knew Islam and hence you will never know ehsan.
In a state of ehsan it's a two way communication.
0
brother Reed Wilson.
written by kope , November 01, 2012
my understanding of quran is who ever believe in god what ever religion you believe in as long you believe in god and good to other human being god will reward them.

i reject hadis many of them but there are many good hadis why should i reject them if they makes sense to me?

i have no problem seeing good in others religious holy books

rejecting good hadis makes on sense to me



salam
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@ abc
written by This is Rami Rustom , November 01, 2012
> You never knew Islam

I know Islam better than you do. Would you like to challenge me on this? Before you decide to challenge me, see what I've already written here (its over 100 posts back and forth between a Muslim and I):

http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/msearch?query=islam+OR+Mohamed+OR+Allah&submit=Search&charset=ISO-8859-1

If you believe I said anything false, then quote me, point out the flaw, and explain why you think its a flaw. And it would be best if you reply on that forum, instead of here.

> and hence you will never know ehsan.

Ehsan means charity. You're logic makes no sense. Plenty of non-Muslims give charity, and not just to people of their own ethnicity or religion. They even give to Muslims.

> In a state of ehsan it's a two way communication.

What the heck does that mean? In a state of "charity", "its" a two-way communication. What is "it"? Are you referring to my response to Malem about his idea that he communicates with Allah during his prayers? If so, are you saying that Allah talks to you too?
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@ Kope
written by This is Rami Rustom , November 01, 2012
> my understanding of quran is who ever believe in god what ever religion you believe in as long you believe in god and good to other human being god will reward them.

So, if I don't believe in God, and I'm good to other human beings, then I'll go to hell? Thats silly.

Now compare me to a Muslim. Lets say the typical Muslim. I am way more moral than he is. I do way more good and way less bad, than he does. I am way better to other human beings than he is. And he's going to heaven and I'm going to hell? Thats silly.
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...
written by kope , November 01, 2012
islamic prayers are just meditation even some atheist do meditation to relax
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quran the word of a deity? No fat chance!
written by 1proudkaffur4life , November 01, 2012
Well “Reed” so far you have not provided evidence that the quran is MORE than just a book written by humans. You reject the Hadiths, yet claim that the quran was given by a deity, a claim you have not substantiated with any evidence, and over and over again Muslims proof that they fall back on BLIND FAITH, and this is all they have. Your “holey” book is riddled with many more holes than a “Swiss Emmentaler cheese”, with holes so big one could put the earth through them, and it still has room to spare!

As to your quotes, there are equally clear verses declaring the “Jews” as having been transformed into swine and apes, or that the “unbelievers” will receive a grievous punishment in hell from your gawd. I've used the “burn the skin and replace it” verse (4:56) several times already, so you must be familiar with it. Any human who tortures another in like fashion, would be put in Jail, yet you “honor” and pay respect to a gawd who will (or gives the command to do so) torture unbelievers in the most vicious way. You may pull out your “nice” verses, but as for me I will not forget that in the same quran your gawd speaks differently. Luckily “allah” is just as human invention, one of the worst fairy-tale any human cam ever up with on. Worse of all “supposedly” grown up “rational” thinking people believe this crap to be eternal truth.

As to 2:62 well if one does not believe in the “Last Day” (as I do) one is out of luck! Unfortunately I'm not at my main-pc so I can't quote other verses from the “quran” which simply shows that one who rejects MohamMAD will be punished, and it makes little difference if the person is a “Jew” or “Christian”. Yoiur effort to whitewash Islam may work with the uneducated person (and that maybe for a time) but you can't pull the wool over the eyes of those who KNOW your “fables” of old.
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@ Kope/Malem/abc
written by This is Rami Rustom , November 01, 2012
> islamic prayers are just meditation even some atheist do meditation to relax

Right. And plenty of people are relaxed without needing meditation to get relaxed.

So why does Islam make prayer mandatory?

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Rami
written by fineliving56 , November 01, 2012
Preyer in Islam is one the five main pillar of Islam as you know … a Muslim need to pray to go to heaven .

Stopping prayers is forbidden to a Muslim … besides … how ,a Muslim, going to secure a decent TENT in Jannat al naeem … with enough virgins to last him eternity

We can't forget, arm full of jeweled and gold bracelets and silk robes … after all, a man has to have his Jeweled bracelets in jannat … :)

Oh, and we can't forget … a Muslim have to keep up the 5 prayer a day … how else, he is going to have all the alcohol he want without the drunkenness in Jannah

Oh also … we cant forget … all the flowing waters and abundance of fruits under shades ….

also … no burning sun in Jannah …

[ I guess Allah forgot about the Eskimos he created … who love to have some sun …I guess Jannah is not as inviting, to an Eskimo man, as to, a desert Arab man ]

Rami …so far non of the Muslims who post here … have touched on the subject of '' why would the Islamic God promise … big breasted, big eyes, virgins,alcohol, gold bracelets,tents,silk robes and pillows,pearly boys,water,no sun,trees … did I leave anything else ?

The reason they do not touch on it is :

[ in case of Reed, he changes meanings of Arabic words as he goes, because he is too ashamed of the real and true meaning of Ayas that talk about Janna in Quran ] ….

It is because is too shameful …it is disguised to feed carnal needs and it has nothing to do with spirituality that Islam claim to be .

Let us see if any Muslim here will start addressing this shameful promises by Islamic Allah!
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...
written by Reed Wilson. , November 01, 2012
Archpagan. You write " Yes Reed, I agree Mohammad created revolutionary change in medieval Arabia by breaking off tradition. Such ....... But what you advocate here is no reform at all."

We didnt discuss all that. Thanks anyway for agreement. I am not sure if Muhammad broke traditions even. We lack record.

It is my firm opinion that Muhammad was a messenger only. Revolution, if any, was due to Quran. What do I 'advocate here?

Between you and kope reminds me Kathrina Siri who gave you a certificate.
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...
written by Reed Wilson. , November 01, 2012
Archpagan. You "DADA, please go through the above post of fineliving 56. I am convinced that she is right and you are wrong. Both message and messenger being noun, linguistically they can't be interchangeable."

What remains there Bahai? You are convinced already. You found rule that nouns are not interchangeable. (BTW it was not interchange of nouns. The word has two meanings according to dictionary and not according to RW)

Kindly dont coarse me to go through the knowledgeable post. You are so nice!!
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...
written by Reed Wilson. , November 01, 2012
kope, dear brother. My post for you is under review and shall appear in course of time.

When rejecting hadis, as you said you do, always condemn the narrator.
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kope.
written by Reed Wilson. , November 01, 2012
kope. You write " reject hadis many of them but there are many good hadis why should i reject them if they makes sense to me?

So you reject. That is fine. It is natural that whenever one rejects a hadis, from Bukhari, Muslim, Abi Dawood, Ibn Majja etc, he condemns by feeling that he telling lies and has malafide intention. So dont believe the liar or wicked. People keep on believing liar and mischief. It is risky.

kope, you did not read my post for you or atleast you did not agree or disagree the Quran I quote. Do you read ahadith books? Which of them you have read cover to cover?

kope, do you know that NOBODY knows the exact number of ahadith, leaving alone reading all of them. Can that fluid literature be a source of your DEEN?

kope, I gave you my thinking of today. May be my ideas change in future. I can be killed for rejecting hadis and there be no more future for me.
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Fineliving
written by Malem , November 01, 2012
Reed is correct in that many of the words and descriptions used have multiple meanings. Also note there is not statement in the Quran that says Muslims must pray 5 times a day, if you read it you would know that. Im not sure he is shamed in any manner either. Shame would be for a person, for example that lies to their familie and relatives about their beliefs or something like that.
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Malam
written by fineliving56 , November 02, 2012
Now I know a 100 % … you do not much about Quran or Arabic ..as you claim !!

Go back to Quran … read it … understand it … and then you will find out, it actually does order Muslims to pray 5 times …

I have to warn you .. it is hidden, and it is not so clear, and it is located in different Ayes .

When you finshed and you still cannot find it … I will tell you if you ask me !

As if you did not know… Arab Imams covered their behinds, about 5 times prayer in Quran in order to match hadeeth .

Get to work .Malam

BTW … Non Arab Muslims like Reed , have been using COMPOUND WORDS TO TRANSLATE KEY WORDS LIKE '' IDRUBUHUNAH '' …. AND THAT IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG …AS YOU SHOULD KNOW

I have talked about it before … Reed did not come back with a refute so I will consider it as he has been refuted about the difference between single words and compound words in Quran .

Malam

Where wore you born ?

Are you afraid or ashamed to tell me ? … I hope not … where we come from is beside the point .. so why are you afraid to tell us

Also … I have told you my family know I have left Islam … I am proud of my leaving … people who condone the garbage in Quran, have to be a shammed not the people who leave ?!
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Malem
written by Kaser , November 02, 2012
Maybe I am not credible in your eyes since I read the "English" Quran - hence an invalid Quran.
But Fineliving really smacked you upside the head old man...
You got, as we say, owned...
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Fineliving
written by Malem , November 02, 2012
Are you sure you left Islam or were kicked out? There is NO place in the Quran that says pray 5 Times, it is 3 times 11:114 and 17:78, and by saying they are somehow hidding is debunked by 4:103. Also check Salat Al-Fajr (Dawn Prayer) and Salat Al-Isha (Night Prayer)24:58 and Al-Salat Al-Wusta (The Middle Prayer) 2:238.

So nice try lass, but you are the one who is wrong. Also if you really read the Quran before, IT PROHIBITS HADITH my dear.

Why do you want to know where I was born? That seems quite a personal question? Where were you born? nevermind dont answer that as it will likely just be a lie anyway.
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Malem / Fineliving
written by Kaser , November 02, 2012
Read here:
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/1092
Such clarity.. Such proof of excellent communications from the almighty Allah!
No wonder fatwas are counted in the tens of thousands!
How can any Muslim make sense of this gibberish... No wonder Islamic countries are so retarded... With the amount of brain-juice you have to dedicate to make sense of all this nonsense you have no time for scientific progress, social progress...

INCLUDING THIS JEM : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik5GZap_-_A
Malem - this must make you want to cut your beard and PRAISE JESUS no???
And you wonder why the west cannot take Islam seriously?
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Again hahaha
written by Betty , November 02, 2012
And he talks about me *staying classy* what a bunch of retards he follows ;)
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Betty
written by Malem , November 02, 2012
Who are these people you are calling names? I only follow Allah.
Staying classy as always, you have to be washing that mouth out daily eh?
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Malam
written by fineliving56 , November 02, 2012
Well just as thought you do not know Quran as word by word as you should and you do not want to know. ..

99 % of muslims believe they are supposed to pray 5 times a day .. and you do not want to know about why is that ? !

of course they are ALL wrong …aren't they ? , you are one of few Quran's muslims …and you think you are right ? …

you pray 3 times … too bad Quran, it self , told you to pray 5 times a day and you do not want to know .

Too much trouble to pray 5 times ..huh ? …I understand

BTW … the Ayas you mentioned are not all … there are few more ayas and when put together, they tell you, you have to pray 5 times a day .

Since you did not ask what are they … stay uninformed … carry on .

BTW … you do not want to tell me where you were born because, your LIE that you are Arabic man will be shown … so as I said, carry on .
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mister
written by kioi , November 04, 2012
Muhammad was not a prophet but a paedophile who married a six-year old girl and consummated the marriage at nine! I am sure there were other matured women around who he could have taken for a wife,; but no. He had to have a six-year old who is still a child that ought to be playing with toys! Prophets do not do that.
Islam is a religion of violence that has no tolerance for anyone not like them.
The first thought that comes to their minds is to kill you if you do not agree with them. Where is the tolerance in that?
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Malem
written by Kaser , November 04, 2012
You said: 'I only follow Allah" .. right... right...
And he talks to you directly? You guys have lunch every week?
If that's not the case Malem, and it's not, then you simply follow somebody else's concept of Allah.

Like I said before, you are a follower, you chose not to think for yourself.
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fineliving
written by malem , November 05, 2012
Qumran does not say five times anywhere please stop lying

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