The Wolofs[i] say, "Truth is a hot pepper" and "Whoever wants honey must brave the bees."
Often we learn our religious commandments and those stories that bind our certain beliefs we are born into to be totalitarian truths! Our parents, our holy priests, our holy books and our godly beliefs, compel us to confirm our religious obligations to be the truths and its teaching All That Is Truthful. We are even told to understand what we learn or know as the ultimate truths and our blighting beliefs as righteousness!
Do we not create some kind of ‘circular reasoning’ of these beliefs and understandings, by building our concepts or our ultimate truths on “straw men” concepts?
What is a Straw-man Theory?
Politician: ‘My opponent believes that higher taxes are the only way to pay for needed improvements. She never met a tax she didn't like. But I have a better idea: let's cut waste in the government first’.
Why are politicians always so willing to tell you what the other side thinks? One reason is that, in explaining someone else's views, we have a chance to oversimplify and even falsify them. In the example above, is it really likely that the opponent prefers raising taxes or to actually cutting waste in government spending? Probably, her position is much more complex than that, and may make better sense. But, in oversimplifying her position, this politician makes it seem the choice between them is obvious. And, that is the purpose of this technique, which we call "straw man" (like a scarecrow), because it relies on the creation of a false image of someone else's statements, ideas, or beliefs?
A "straw man" is rarely based on actions, instead of comments or beliefs. Usually actions are too unambiguous to suffer the oversimplification of a "straw man" theory and simple mischaracterization is not a fallacy, but a weakness in support of a claim. For example, claiming someone has voted for raising taxes, when the vote was really in favor of a bill raising some taxes but cutting many more, would not be a "straw man" in itself, but, might be used in combination with those misstatements of the person's comments and policies to create a false-image fallacy.
Politics provides a fertile ground of "straw man" fallacies; so is the Quran, Islam’s holy book, especially vis-à-vis its perception of the Jewish and Christian beliefs.
Islam perpetual rise came from the thinking of an ignorant Arab, whose learning and adherence were based on the Jewish and Christian beliefs, myths and scriptures (as these were widely accepted to be accurate and with historic backgrounds and had written literatures). In fact, when we study the so-called holy Qur’an, we find the beginning tales and various similarities of famous prophetic fables were conjured up from these two famous holy books. Muhammad heard these magnificent tales and authentic marvels of God’s spoken words to man, created in His rightly image and His favourite entity – where heavenly beings, who came and guided mankind to true paths of salvations. This mystified Muhammad into believing in them, and adapting these concepts from these two beliefs. But his early pagan upbringings compelled him to seek new gods. When Muhammad made known of his intentions of being stung by unknown voices in his head, he was told to be inspired by those angelic beings like in these two holy books. Hence, we learn of his early preaching of Islam to be a replica of these two religious books with little variants and with agreements of a celestial creator, who has rightly chosen him as his representative on earth. Yet, the noble Qur’an in later verses and chapters simply omits, disowns and rejects these as lethargic beliefs!
I want to confront these myths of uncertainties between ‘why and what’ may be the reasons to these “straw man” thinking of Muhammad – the Prophet of Islam. Why religions are built on such circular reasoning and straw-man fallacies?
The Dilemma of the Qur’an!
Such Qur'anic verses confront sincere Muslims with a serious dilemma: How can one accept both the Bible and the Qur'an when they clearly contradict each other? Furthermore, the Qur'an clearly emphasizes the high risks involved: to treat any of the Writings of the Prophets as a lie is to be "burned in the fires of hell." Many attempt to resolve their dilemmas by contending that the original Bible has been lost or falsified and is no longer reliable! Yet this explanation does not satisfy those, who know the Qur'an, which says:
"The Words of Allah shall never change. That is the supreme triumph." (Surah 10:64)
"None can change the decrees of Allah." (Surah 6:34)
The Qur'an claims that, it was given to confirm and guard the preceding Scriptures. The Muslims must also ask themselves”: "Would the Qur'an confirm a corrupted, unreliable book?"
Some even suggest that Christians and the Jews have falsified their Holy Books after the time of Prophet Muhammad. This argument is disproved by the fact that today's Bibles are based on hundreds of ancient manuscripts, which date to a time long before the Muhammadan period. The Bible read today is in harmony with the Bible of Muhammad's time. "Allahu Akbar!" God is great – great enough to preserve His eternal Word for every generation.
The reader may or may not be aware of the obstacles that exist for a Christian that witnesses the Good News of Jesus Christ then to a follower of Muhammadan Islam. Many Muslims have serious misconceptions of what exactly Christians really believe in? When discussing Christianity with a typical Muslim and/or trying to bring the Gospel, they may be confronted with such statements or similar ones as: "Christians believe that God had a wife" or "Christians worship 3 gods." While the concepts of the Trinity and Jesus being God's Son is difficult to understand by those not well-informed about Christianity, typical Muslims may have the most distorted picture of Christian beliefs than any other religious or non-religious sect. Thanks to Islam’s Prophet’s “Straw Man Fallacy”. Let’s see why is this exactly so?
The answer lies, at least in large part, within the pages of the book most near and dear to Muslims. The Qur'an is a book of teachings by Muhammadan thoughts, the founder of Islam, which Muslims believe to be heavenly and divinely inspired. Within the Qur'an are several attacks by its ambiguous author against Christianity, some explicit and some implicit. Some of these attacks present a distortion of true Christian beliefs and at times also of the Jewish myths. That is why I felt that it was appropriate to label these statements as "straw man fallacy", since these attacks are only directed against a false Christianity not practiced by evangelical Christians (Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox).
Whether these statements are actually “straw man” fallacy, used by Muhammad to denigrate Christianity, attack non-evangelical Christian fringe groups, the historical errors, or are simply based on Muhammad's misunderstandings of the true Christian beliefs, is beyond the scope of this article. What is important here is to realize that certain misconceptions do indeed exist within the minds of many Muslims, who are well-read on the Qur'an, yet know very little about Jewish and Christian beliefs. In this article, I will discuss Muhammad’s conceptions or misconceptions about Judaism or Christianity, not assuming that these religion true religions, but only highlight the “Straw Man Fallacy” Muhammad used in his conception of the Quran.
Quotes will be used from Yusuf Ali's translation of the Qur'an throughout this article, whilst, the Biblical verses used are from the King James Version. And, please note that, in this article we have simply based our arguments on Muhammad’s lethargic world views. We explicitly reject to consider any religions to be the rightly guided.
Straw man # 1: Christians believe that God used a consort to beget Jesus
"To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: How can He have a son when He hath no consort? He created all things, and He hath full knowledge of all things." (Surah 6:101, emphasis added)
"And Exalted is the Majesty of our Lord: He has taken neither a wife nor a son." (Surah 72:3)
These verses do not appear, in their appropriate Qur'anic contexts, to bear direct reflections on Christianity, as it is actually pagan beliefs that seem to be (at least mostly) in view. Thus, unlike the proceeding examples, this is not a straw man per se against Christianity. However, it is worth including a discussion on this topic due to the potential contained in such verses that may cause misconceptions about Christian beliefs amongst readers of the Quran. Said, or at least greatly implied, in these verses is that, for God to have a Son(?), He must also have or have had a wife(?). Thus, it wouldn't be surprising for Muslims to even think that Christians believe in God’s having an actual physical consort, considering the Christian assertion of Jesus' Sonship? However, Christians would agree that it is indeed blasphemy to claim that God had a physical consort in Mary to beget Jesus!
Due to the misconceptions that could potentially arise from the reading of such Qur'anic verses, it is important to stress the actual Christian beliefs in regards to this issue. Biblical passages to point out that appropriately describe the virginal conception as an act of God's creative fiat would be the following:
"Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. But, while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." (Matthew 1:18-21, emphasis added)"
"And the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, to a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. And the angel came in unto her… And the angel said unto her, Fear not Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:26-35, emphasis added)
What Christians believe is that Mary had a miraculous conception through the actions of the Holy Spirit in a NON-sexual manner. It is also important to express the concept of Christ's Incarnation. Jesus, the eternal Son, already in existence, entered Mary's womb miraculously and willfully, so that He could fulfill His purposes of bringing salvation to the world. More will be discussed in a later section on particular Biblical passages one can utilize to provide insight on the Incarnation.
Let's also take a look at this verse:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16, emphasis added)
In the above verse, the Greek word for "begotten" is "monogenesis," which means sole, or one and only[1].
The other 4 straw men that will be discussed here arise from Muhammad's misconceptions of the Trinity.
Continued Part TWO
[i] A Senegalese tribes-people
Comments (156)
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written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 15, 2012
Thank you very much, it appears you are going to do a good exposition of the most difficult Christain doctrine here for these Muslims to know.
So far so good you are on the right path
I hope M&P and RZQ will follow as I am following peharps we will settle our differences here and then
Cheers
So far so good you are on the right path
I hope M&P and RZQ will follow as I am following peharps we will settle our differences here and then
Cheers
written by vbv , March 15, 2012
What is fallacy ? Beleiving in irrational things and claiming it be an absolute truth is fallacy. In this both Bible and Quran excel and quran always tries to outdo the Bible by plagiarising the myths from the bible and claim to be the real version of a fables misrepresented as facts. So do most religions like hinduism, zoroastrianism, or the defunct egyptian religions, or the religions of Hammurabbi, the summerians, Assyrians,Greeks, Romans, or the Vikings. But the main difference is that these middle-eastern megalomaniacal monotheist cults are fanatical, intolerant ,extremely bigoted and would murder or torture anyone who dares to question their veracity and rationale. The greeks,or the romans or the hindus or the budhists, or the jains could question and even reject anything that is not acceptable. But islam or the abrahamical cults are totalitarian and expects everyone to accept their tall tales of irrationalities in abject surrender without questioning ,or else you have to forfeit your limbs or life. That is very cruel and barbaric. In islam you criticise Allah, you may even escape death , but you criticise Muhamad you will definitely face a painful death at the hands of the muslim fanatics. Many muslims are just namesake muslims,thus, they follow the rituals and show outward compliance , though in their minds they do not accept this barbaric cult: they adhere to it under coercion , in fear of their lives; worse they may be seperated from their families and subjected to tortures till they are forced to come back into the fold. Islam has grown from this kind of coercive practices. First invite one with deceptive smiles and false geniality , and once trapped keep the idiots in the fold under extreme duress. That is why recommends torture and death for apostasy.Only the most irrational cults would require such mafia-like muzzling to keep its flock under control. This way , islam is not a religion like any other , for it lacks spirituality ( and spirituality cannot flourish when intelligence is suppressed and intimidated) and depends on threats of violence and death to sustain itself. All religions are fallacious, but monotheistic cults are most fallacious since they can survive only by destruction of other civiluisations and cultures : and the worst of the lot is islam.
written by rzq , March 15, 2012
"The Qur'an claims that, it was given to confirm and guard the preceding Scriptures. The Muslims must also ask themselves”: "Would the Qur'an confirm a corrupted, unreliable book?"
It's simple! The Quran is saying from the time jesus(pbuh) ended his ministry to the time modern Christian scriptures were written, the message was corrupted!
The Quran simply reaffirms the original jesus(pbuh) message!
It's simple! The Quran is saying from the time jesus(pbuh) ended his ministry to the time modern Christian scriptures were written, the message was corrupted!
The Quran simply reaffirms the original jesus(pbuh) message!
written by rzq , March 15, 2012
To understand how this is possible, you have to understand that the religion of Christianity and the core doctrines in its theology were founded not by Jesus himself but by the apostle Paul. The movement Jesus started was firmly based in Judaism, and was led (according to Paul's own letters and backed up by other historical documents from that period) in the years after Jesus died by his brother James; who, like his brother, was killed by the Romans and/or Jewish leaders affiliated with them about 30 years after Jesus' death, in 62 A.D. Paul, who as far as we know had never known Jesus personally or heard him preach, rejected the ideas of James and created his own doctrine of faith in Jesus leading to personal salvation. But as much as Paul passionately believed in Jesus as his savior, and the savior of all those who profess faith in Jesus as the messiah, Paul didn't write about, or really seem to know much at all about, what Jesus had actually taught while he was alive. In fact, we have no reason to believe that Paul ever met Jesus or heard him preach. The gospels -- Matthew, Mark, Luke and John -- we rely on today to tell us what Jesus actually might have preached were written in the decades after Paul wrote his letters that became the founding theology of Christianity, and Paul's letters did not discuss what Jesus had said, only what Paul believed Jesus had meant to the world.
written by Malem , March 15, 2012
You state All religions are fallacious, but monotheistic cults are most fallacious . What is most fallacious? is that liek saying something is wrong but another is more wrong or a flower is a plant, but the other flower is more plant? Try not being so apparent with your distaste of religion. So you dont believe in any God, no one is saying you have to. What you trying to do is make a case to convert people over to your side of atheism. How hard is it to believe in nothing, to have faith in nothing, to feel there are no consequences for certain behavior...I guess some people just like the easy way out
written by rzq , March 15, 2012
You see the difference. The Pauline docrine which is now the majority of the Christian teachings is really all about personal salvation and nothing about social reform! According to Paul, if you accept jesus(pbuh) as your lord and personal saviour then all will be ok in the kingdom of heaven! Did Jesus actually preach that message?
When you actually read about Jesus in the New Testament -- his mother Mary's declaration that his role would be to "pull the princes down from their thrones and raise high the lowly" and "fill the starving with good things and send the rich away empty"; Jesus' very first sermon where he quotes the social reformer prophet Isaiah calling for the wealthy to forgive the debts of the poor; the number of times he talked about helping the poor and dismissing the rich; the number of times he talked about mercy for the weak; the number of times he quoted the ancient Israeli prophets who had all focused their anger on the ruling class of Israel; the way his brother and heir as leader of the first Christian community had told the rich to "weep for the miseries that are coming to you" because of "the wages which you have kept back from the laborers mowing your fields"
When you actually read about Jesus in the New Testament -- his mother Mary's declaration that his role would be to "pull the princes down from their thrones and raise high the lowly" and "fill the starving with good things and send the rich away empty"; Jesus' very first sermon where he quotes the social reformer prophet Isaiah calling for the wealthy to forgive the debts of the poor; the number of times he talked about helping the poor and dismissing the rich; the number of times he talked about mercy for the weak; the number of times he quoted the ancient Israeli prophets who had all focused their anger on the ruling class of Israel; the way his brother and heir as leader of the first Christian community had told the rich to "weep for the miseries that are coming to you" because of "the wages which you have kept back from the laborers mowing your fields"
written by rzq , March 15, 2012
So tell my good man, which scripture has been corrupted???
Again you have Paul to thank for that!
All those things quoted above which lead directly to Jesus can be found in the Quran!
Surah at-Taubah (9) verse 60: "The alms are only for the poor and the needy, and those who collect them, and those whose hearts are to be reconciled, and to free the captives and the debtors, and for the cause of Allah, and (for) the wayfarers; a duty imposed by Allah. Allah is knower, Wise." (The Holy Qur'an 9:60).
Do not squander your wealth wastefully. The squanderers are indeed Satan's brothers and Satan is ungrateful to his Lord. (Surah Bani Isra'il, 17:27)
Again you have Paul to thank for that!
All those things quoted above which lead directly to Jesus can be found in the Quran!
Surah at-Taubah (9) verse 60: "The alms are only for the poor and the needy, and those who collect them, and those whose hearts are to be reconciled, and to free the captives and the debtors, and for the cause of Allah, and (for) the wayfarers; a duty imposed by Allah. Allah is knower, Wise." (The Holy Qur'an 9:60).
Do not squander your wealth wastefully. The squanderers are indeed Satan's brothers and Satan is ungrateful to his Lord. (Surah Bani Isra'il, 17:27)
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 15, 2012
A wonderful preaching from you. You have problems with Paul preaching and that of Jesus is it?
But the Big question is what did they say about the salvation of the soul that differs?. How can one be saved and go to heaven? Tell what me what Jesus said and what Paul said and what Mohammed said that agree with that of Jesus and not with that of Paul.
To me that is crux of the matter
Stop boxing the air
But the Big question is what did they say about the salvation of the soul that differs?. How can one be saved and go to heaven? Tell what me what Jesus said and what Paul said and what Mohammed said that agree with that of Jesus and not with that of Paul.
To me that is crux of the matter
Stop boxing the air
written by duh_swami , March 15, 2012
All religions are false...All religions are harmful...All religions scramble human mental marbles, all religions either have caused violence in the past, are indulging in violence now, or will indulge in violence in the future...The world would be far better off if Allah had kept his big mouth shut...
Look how his word has scrambled RZQ, M&P and Malmans minds...The Christian is not much better...All of the faithful believe in fairy tales and in many cases, defend a fairy tale to the death...Pure insanity...
Look how his word has scrambled RZQ, M&P and Malmans minds...The Christian is not much better...All of the faithful believe in fairy tales and in many cases, defend a fairy tale to the death...Pure insanity...
written by rzq , March 15, 2012
Side stepping again?
If I post what you want, do you aknowledge that the modern bible is corrupted and the Pauline docrine is not really the message of Jesus(pbuh)???
If I post what you want, do you aknowledge that the modern bible is corrupted and the Pauline docrine is not really the message of Jesus(pbuh)???
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 15, 2012
I will agree only if you quote from the Bible that Paul contradicted Jesus. That will mean that you believe that what you are quoting is the word of God and if I quote from the same word of God you will not allege corruption.
But you need to understand that no truth of the Bible is established with only one verse you have corroborate two or more scriptures to be able confirm the truth. Because at the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every truth be established.
You don't interpret the scriptures, the scriptures interpret itself. That is the Biblical principle.
But you need to understand that no truth of the Bible is established with only one verse you have corroborate two or more scriptures to be able confirm the truth. Because at the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every truth be established.
You don't interpret the scriptures, the scriptures interpret itself. That is the Biblical principle.
written by duh_swami , March 15, 2012
It's interesting how the local jihadist try to turn Islam-Watch into Christian watch...Massive obfuscation...Islam is the subject...Allah and Mohammad the culprits...Islam is an evil ideology, Allah is an evil spook who stars as the main character in a dark fairy tale...
written by rzq , March 15, 2012
Sorry for being redundant! I need you to clarify.
Are you equating the writings of Paul with the words of Jesus(pbuh)?
Secondly are you asking me to go through the gospels and the writing of James about what Jesus said and compare them to Pauls gospel and find contradictions on the message of Jesus (pbuh)?
Are you equating the writings of Paul with the words of Jesus(pbuh)?
Secondly are you asking me to go through the gospels and the writing of James about what Jesus said and compare them to Pauls gospel and find contradictions on the message of Jesus (pbuh)?
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 15, 2012
You said Paul did not preach what Jesus preached and I say point out the contradition of their messages on salvation for instance
but not using a verse to allege contracdition with another verse to support it.
I am not asking to go through any book just state where paul preached another gospel which Jesus did not preach that is all I want from you.
but not using a verse to allege contracdition with another verse to support it.
I am not asking to go through any book just state where paul preached another gospel which Jesus did not preach that is all I want from you.
written by Yibel , March 15, 2012
written by duh_swami , March 15, 2012:
It's interesting how the local jihadist try to turn Islam-Watch into Christian watch...Massive obfuscation...Islam is the subject...Allah and Mohammad the culprits...Islam is an evil ideology, Allah is an evil spook who stars as the main character in a dark fairy tale...
I couldn't agree with you more!!
The author of this article has hit a nerve with our lovely little resident jihadis and they are screaming in pain. That is why they are trying to change the subject!!!
So let's get back on track with some real Qur'anic truths, such as:
This most evil teaching: Kill the infidels (Christians, Jews, pagans, etc.) wherever you find them:
“So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent (submit!) and keep up prayer (5 times a day bow down and worship the stone of the Ka'aba) and pay the poor-rate (zakat tax), leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful Ar-Raheem.” (Quran 9:5)
It's interesting how the local jihadist try to turn Islam-Watch into Christian watch...Massive obfuscation...Islam is the subject...Allah and Mohammad the culprits...Islam is an evil ideology, Allah is an evil spook who stars as the main character in a dark fairy tale...
I couldn't agree with you more!!
The author of this article has hit a nerve with our lovely little resident jihadis and they are screaming in pain. That is why they are trying to change the subject!!!
So let's get back on track with some real Qur'anic truths, such as:
This most evil teaching: Kill the infidels (Christians, Jews, pagans, etc.) wherever you find them:
“So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent (submit!) and keep up prayer (5 times a day bow down and worship the stone of the Ka'aba) and pay the poor-rate (zakat tax), leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful Ar-Raheem.” (Quran 9:5)
written by Artiewhitefox , March 15, 2012
Little do the Islamic humans know but the religion of the west, and the religion of the middle east are connected. The religion of the west has a vengeful god said to send humans to eternal hell which is a god of war. The Islamic religion hence has jehad being war as well. The humans interpreting the Bible do not interpret it properly at all. God is the farther of lights. Islamic humans must be aware of Moses when he came down from mount Sinai that he blinded the Israelites because he was shining the light of God seen from Gods back. The light from Gods face is hell to the wicked. Hell therefore is not a place. 8 places in the king James bible it says the heart is to be figuratively circumcised, but religions of the west do their best to keep truth away from humans. There are 8 places I can find old, and new combined where the KJV says the heart figuratively is to be circumcised, and the not the penis tip at all. Deuteronomy 30:6, Deuteronomy 10:16 ;Jeremiah 4:4 , Jeremiah 9:26; Colossians 2:11-15;Acts 7:51;Leviticus 26:41;Romans 2:29,
Gods is not a god of war. Hence Jihad should have the opposite meaning that it has now. When it does the soul will be saved for Gods kingdom.Then humans will be humble lovinbg all as one. All of us are human after all. let us make peace, and love as one getting ready for eternal joy.
Gods is not a god of war. Hence Jihad should have the opposite meaning that it has now. When it does the soul will be saved for Gods kingdom.Then humans will be humble lovinbg all as one. All of us are human after all. let us make peace, and love as one getting ready for eternal joy.
written by Muslim and proud , March 15, 2012
You said: "Little do the Islamic humans know"
you also said: "All of us are human after all"
Please explain?
you also said: "All of us are human after all"
Please explain?
written by duh_swami , March 15, 2012
Hence Jihad should have the opposite meaning that it has now.
HMMM, one of the main purposes of jihad is to remove obstacles from the spread or expansion of Islam...If we turn that backwards, jihad would mean to shrink and shrivel Islam until it blips out...I can get behind that...How do we reverse it?
HMMM, one of the main purposes of jihad is to remove obstacles from the spread or expansion of Islam...If we turn that backwards, jihad would mean to shrink and shrivel Islam until it blips out...I can get behind that...How do we reverse it?
written by rzq , March 15, 2012
Awfully quiet in here tonight! Have all the apostates and Christians taken their bar and ball home?
Pastor here is a link to an eloquent article which gives you the information you requested. It's a very long article but it is detailed with references.
Before duh pipes up, no its not wikipedia. No I couldn't be bothered to copy and paste. No there is not enough space to post it all. Here is the link and have a read!
http://danizier.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/paul-vs-jesus-and-james/
Pastor here is a link to an eloquent article which gives you the information you requested. It's a very long article but it is detailed with references.
Before duh pipes up, no its not wikipedia. No I couldn't be bothered to copy and paste. No there is not enough space to post it all. Here is the link and have a read!
http://danizier.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/paul-vs-jesus-and-james/
written by rzq , March 15, 2012
Where are you hiding, come and play!!!
I can't wait for more of your postings!!!!
I can't wait for more of your postings!!!!
written by Muslim & Proud , March 15, 2012
Salaam Bro
Duh_dumb loves Wikepedia. He likes to quote from it and also considers it to be fiction at the same time - that's quality..................
Before duh pipes up, no its not wikipedia.
Duh_dumb loves Wikepedia. He likes to quote from it and also considers it to be fiction at the same time - that's quality..................
written by duh_swami , March 15, 2012
Lennie oh lennie
Where are you hiding, come and play!!!
Sounds like a love affair...Who's Lennie and what do you mean 'play'...Like in frolic? You want Lennie to show up and frolic with you? I knew you were sweet, but I didn't know you were 'that' sweet...Sounds like a match made in Allah's Heaven...Go for it, I will never tell...Your dirty little secret is safe with me...
Where are you hiding, come and play!!!
Sounds like a love affair...Who's Lennie and what do you mean 'play'...Like in frolic? You want Lennie to show up and frolic with you? I knew you were sweet, but I didn't know you were 'that' sweet...Sounds like a match made in Allah's Heaven...Go for it, I will never tell...Your dirty little secret is safe with me...
written by Tanstaafl jw , March 15, 2012
I'd rather have a Christian neighbor living next door than a jihadi. Remember, waging jihad is obligatory for all Muslims.
written by rzq , March 16, 2012
I would rather have a Christian neighbour than a bigot (transtafl)!
written by non believer , March 16, 2012
All religions brainwash the children. Never once allowing it to debate whether this GOD is there or not. But violence in religion is because of the expansionist desires of the Abrahamic religions. All other religions praise their Gods no end but allow others to praise their own Gods. It is only the Abrahamic religions which say my God is God your God is Satan/devil. Muslims want Allah's Umma and Christians want empire of Jesus. In the fight between them the world has been turned into a hell. spreading the fear of hell in the life after, these religions have made the imaginary hell a reality on earth.
@rzq while accusing pastor of side stepping the issue you have side stepped the issue of Mo lusting after his daughter in law.
@rzq while accusing pastor of side stepping the issue you have side stepped the issue of Mo lusting after his daughter in law.
written by Muslim and proud , March 16, 2012
"Mo lusting after his daughter in law."
Please prove it - if you can.
Please prove it - if you can.
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 16, 2012
RZQ
I have brows through your article but I did not see anything tangible to refute. I saw some assumed contractions between what Jesus preached and what Paul preached which you could easily pick some and pest for to see but because it lack substance you are afraid to forward them to us here to see.
However, let me clarify this common accusation that Paul preached salvation and justification by faith alone without works which is not true.
Paul himself asked Rom 6:1-2“1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?”
He taught that works should be the evidence of our faith and not the other way round. That when we are born again by faith in the atoning blood of Christ and justified by that faith and have eternal life at that moment outside works, but what follow after that action of faith is the works of the new creation in Christ. 2Cor 5:17 Eph 2:10
How can Paul believe in faith only salvation and still say this I Cor 6:“9 ¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”
Jesus also did not say that only works can save someone without faith. In fact on several occasions that unless you believe in him (faith) you will not be saved. John 3:16 John 8:34 Jesus also saved the thief on the Cross with him that day outside works. He was justified the very moment he exercised faith in Christ and was granted access to Heaven. But the thief would be required to show evidence of his faith by godly living from that moment if he had opportunity to live. That is an example of what it means to be justified by faith only without works because the thief did not have any good works to tender for his salvation.
Do you think you understand?
I have brows through your article but I did not see anything tangible to refute. I saw some assumed contractions between what Jesus preached and what Paul preached which you could easily pick some and pest for to see but because it lack substance you are afraid to forward them to us here to see.
However, let me clarify this common accusation that Paul preached salvation and justification by faith alone without works which is not true.
Paul himself asked Rom 6:1-2“1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?”
He taught that works should be the evidence of our faith and not the other way round. That when we are born again by faith in the atoning blood of Christ and justified by that faith and have eternal life at that moment outside works, but what follow after that action of faith is the works of the new creation in Christ. 2Cor 5:17 Eph 2:10
How can Paul believe in faith only salvation and still say this I Cor 6:“9 ¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”
Jesus also did not say that only works can save someone without faith. In fact on several occasions that unless you believe in him (faith) you will not be saved. John 3:16 John 8:34 Jesus also saved the thief on the Cross with him that day outside works. He was justified the very moment he exercised faith in Christ and was granted access to Heaven. But the thief would be required to show evidence of his faith by godly living from that moment if he had opportunity to live. That is an example of what it means to be justified by faith only without works because the thief did not have any good works to tender for his salvation.
Do you think you understand?
written by san , March 16, 2012
>> Muslim and proud
You have left the question unanswered....I m talking about existence of ONE...If there is One then there must be two or three or four......
if u r not able to answer , then we can ignore...Or i can answer u......U chose the option...
You have left the question unanswered....I m talking about existence of ONE...If there is One then there must be two or three or four......
if u r not able to answer , then we can ignore...Or i can answer u......U chose the option...
written by rzq , March 16, 2012
Of course there are some things Paul said coincided with what Jesus(pbuh) said.
However the teachings and letters of Paul are about 33% of the new testament.
Agreed?? That is a massive portion given to a guy who had not even met Jesus(pbuh). When you read Paul letters then you know that they are Paul's interpretations of the teachings of Jesus(pbuh)!
You are aware that James the brother of Jesus disagreed with Paul on many things.
James felt that Paul's message and interpretation was lacking and he was not afraid to say so.
However the teachings and letters of Paul are about 33% of the new testament.
Agreed?? That is a massive portion given to a guy who had not even met Jesus(pbuh). When you read Paul letters then you know that they are Paul's interpretations of the teachings of Jesus(pbuh)!
You are aware that James the brother of Jesus disagreed with Paul on many things.
James felt that Paul's message and interpretation was lacking and he was not afraid to say so.
written by rzq , March 16, 2012
As a Muslim I accept every word that came from Jesus(pbuh) blessed lips!!
There is nothing I accept from Paul!
That's the base line. Paul for me is a lead balloon weighing upon your faith!
There is nothing I accept from Paul!
That's the base line. Paul for me is a lead balloon weighing upon your faith!
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 16, 2012
"James felt that Paul's message and interpretation was lacking and he was not afraid to say so."
Can you give just one example?
"As a Muslim I accept every word that came from Jesus(pbuh) blessed lips!! "
Is it true? Why then are you not a Christian? Or Do you think the Quran contained the words of Jesus?
Can you give just one example?
"As a Muslim I accept every word that came from Jesus(pbuh) blessed lips!! "
Is it true? Why then are you not a Christian? Or Do you think the Quran contained the words of Jesus?
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 16, 2012
"However the teachings and letters of Paul are about 33% of the new testament. "
What is wrong about that? Did he contradict Jesus in his explanation of the Jesus Gospel?
What whould then say about the Quran, a book of only 114 chapters just about size of the book of Plsams but there are volumes upon volumes of hadiths trying to explain some verses of the Quran. Can you then through away the hadiths of Buhkari, or Muslim, or Tabari or Ishaq that they are not scriptures because they are written about 200 years after the facts or after the death of Mohammed and are more voluminous than the Quran itself?
Please give good and sound reason for your objection of paul. It is not enough to say because his letters constitute 33% of the New Testament books. What are your point of objection?
What is wrong about that? Did he contradict Jesus in his explanation of the Jesus Gospel?
What whould then say about the Quran, a book of only 114 chapters just about size of the book of Plsams but there are volumes upon volumes of hadiths trying to explain some verses of the Quran. Can you then through away the hadiths of Buhkari, or Muslim, or Tabari or Ishaq that they are not scriptures because they are written about 200 years after the facts or after the death of Mohammed and are more voluminous than the Quran itself?
Please give good and sound reason for your objection of paul. It is not enough to say because his letters constitute 33% of the New Testament books. What are your point of objection?
written by vbv , March 16, 2012
Who is profiting from the monotheistic cults ,or for that matter any cult/religion that is organised and has a heirarchy of clergy calling the shots ? The clergy/pastors/mullahs/imams/gurus, swamies/ popes/bishops/ etc are all unscrupulous and inolent rascals who wallow in wealth and claim all the tax cuts/benefits for not doing a day's honest and economically productive work. They like leaches sucking the money out of gullible idiots or tax-evading scumbags who would rather pay these charlatans than the governments , and the governments have scumbag politicians who use these charlatans to influence voters in their favour. Religion is the worst form of evil with a partisan "god" inciting and instigating immoral behaviour through their chosen godmen/clergy ,etc. This "god" is a figment of imagination of these scoundrels and charlatans , a deity so impotent that all acts of violence and misdeeds are carried out by the fanatical zealots egged on by the charlatan with a promise of a delightfully lecherous" hereafter.This socalled hereafter is also a figment of imagination . The year 2,000AD was supposed to have been a "judgement day" and Christ's "second coming" _ it came and passed away with nothing happening. Now this paranoia of the year 2012. Things are happening as usual - the end of the world is nowhere on the horizon - and this year will also pass as usual , notwithstanding the abrupt end of the Mayan calender or that farcical bullshit of Nostrodamus. Ofcourse we still have nine months to 21st. December,2012 - and I am no astrologer, nor do I have any crystal ball, but common sense will tell you that all this is bullshit. Moreover the Sun,our star ,as per astrophysicists, still has 8 billion years of life before it dies and becomes a Red Giant and thereafter shrinks tyo become a white dwarf. Billions of years for our pklanet to be gobbled up by our Sun in its throes of death. And that is fa,far away in time. And what will evolution do until then is anybodies' guess.
written by rzq , March 16, 2012
Your reference sir:
"Paul is specifically rebutted by the later writing of James (brother of Jesus) who offers one of the most striking and dramatic direct contradictions, in James 2:24, choosing vocabulary and syntax that specifically contradicts Paul’s wording in Romans 3:28 in both content and construction"
As a tenant of the Islamic faith you have to believe in Jesus and his book!
There are no doubts about that!
Why am I not a christian? Islam makes more sense to me!
That being said pastor, I sincerely respect your beliefs even though you have no respect for mine!
"Paul is specifically rebutted by the later writing of James (brother of Jesus) who offers one of the most striking and dramatic direct contradictions, in James 2:24, choosing vocabulary and syntax that specifically contradicts Paul’s wording in Romans 3:28 in both content and construction"
As a tenant of the Islamic faith you have to believe in Jesus and his book!
There are no doubts about that!
Why am I not a christian? Islam makes more sense to me!
That being said pastor, I sincerely respect your beliefs even though you have no respect for mine!
written by duh_swami , March 16, 2012
Fairy tales and vanity...The Muslim bro's have once again changed the subject from Islam to the in depth study of Christianity...Clever but not quite clever enough boyz...Paul has nothing to do with Islam, but the criminal Mohammad does...there is a lot of blood on his hands...
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 16, 2012
Let read what James said
James 2:21-22 “21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?”
V22 clarify what works means the by works faith is made perfect. No contradiction with Paul
Paul in Rom 3:28-31” 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.”
V31 clarify Paul’s justification by faith that it is faith that established the law. That means that if you cannot keep the law then you are not above the law..
To clarify this further Paul said Rom 8:1-4 “¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
When you lead by the spirit of God and bear the fruits of the spirit as in Gal 5:22-23 The Law cannot go against you.
You are above the law.
Cheers
James 2:21-22 “21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?”
V22 clarify what works means the by works faith is made perfect. No contradiction with Paul
Paul in Rom 3:28-31” 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.”
V31 clarify Paul’s justification by faith that it is faith that established the law. That means that if you cannot keep the law then you are not above the law..
To clarify this further Paul said Rom 8:1-4 “¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
When you lead by the spirit of God and bear the fruits of the spirit as in Gal 5:22-23 The Law cannot go against you.
You are above the law.
Cheers
written by non believer , March 16, 2012
"Please prove it - if you can. "
Zainab's story is yours not mine. Why the onus on me to prove it? No morally upright person would ask his son to divorce his wife so that he can have sex with her. Your Mo did as per your own stories.
written by duh_swami , March 16, 2012
Duh
Get back to Wikipedia and key the grown ups talk!!
Don't presume to tell me what to do you extra sweet little boy, I don't let Muslims tell me what to do...Are you smoking strange stuff again? What does 'and key the grown ups talk' mean? Is that some kind of Islamic code or just incoherence...
Get back to Wikipedia and key the grown ups talk!!
Don't presume to tell me what to do you extra sweet little boy, I don't let Muslims tell me what to do...Are you smoking strange stuff again? What does 'and key the grown ups talk' mean? Is that some kind of Islamic code or just incoherence...
written by rzq , March 16, 2012
Here are the two passages, shown in various translations:
Romans 3:28 (Paul)
KJV: a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
RSV: a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Today’s English Version: a person is put right with god only through faith, and not by doing what the Law commands.
NIV: a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.
James 2:24 (James’ rebuttal)
KJV: by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
RSV: a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Today’s English Version: it is by his actions that a person is put right with god, and not by his faith alone.
NIV: a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
Clearly, James seems to be saying exactly the opposite of what Paul says. The key words here, in both passages, are justified (or, in Today’s English, “put right with God”), works/deeds/actions (or, in NIV, “observing the law”), and faith (same in all versions of both passages). Not only does James echo the same words, in the same parallel structure, but he even cites exactly the same example and scriptural reference! The passage from Paul comes near the end of the third chapter of Romans; immediately after that, opening up the fourth chapter, Paul cites the example of Abraham, and quotes from Genesis 15:6, and says it was Abrham’s faith, not his works, that justified him (Romans 4:1-3). In James 2:21-24 (the same passage noted above), Paul’s very example and scriptural reference are used against him, but with the opposite (and contradictory) conclusion, that Abraham was justified by the combination of faith with works. James’ use of the same examples, quotes from the same Old Testament verse (Gen. 15:6) using the same words, and parallel structure clearly suggest that this was an intentional reply/rebuttal to Paul.
Romans 3:28 (Paul)
KJV: a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
RSV: a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Today’s English Version: a person is put right with god only through faith, and not by doing what the Law commands.
NIV: a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.
James 2:24 (James’ rebuttal)
KJV: by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
RSV: a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Today’s English Version: it is by his actions that a person is put right with god, and not by his faith alone.
NIV: a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
Clearly, James seems to be saying exactly the opposite of what Paul says. The key words here, in both passages, are justified (or, in Today’s English, “put right with God”), works/deeds/actions (or, in NIV, “observing the law”), and faith (same in all versions of both passages). Not only does James echo the same words, in the same parallel structure, but he even cites exactly the same example and scriptural reference! The passage from Paul comes near the end of the third chapter of Romans; immediately after that, opening up the fourth chapter, Paul cites the example of Abraham, and quotes from Genesis 15:6, and says it was Abrham’s faith, not his works, that justified him (Romans 4:1-3). In James 2:21-24 (the same passage noted above), Paul’s very example and scriptural reference are used against him, but with the opposite (and contradictory) conclusion, that Abraham was justified by the combination of faith with works. James’ use of the same examples, quotes from the same Old Testament verse (Gen. 15:6) using the same words, and parallel structure clearly suggest that this was an intentional reply/rebuttal to Paul.
written by then lie , March 16, 2012
ok.be better and you must open your mind.dont follow false dogma.
written by Muslim and proud , March 16, 2012
"Your Mo did as per your own stories."
Do you believe these "stories" to be factual?
Ps. This is where you are likely to start squirming....
Do you believe these "stories" to be factual?
Ps. This is where you are likely to start squirming....
written by dead or alive , March 16, 2012
Can be found in the word``FLESH`` F is for Fear,L is for Love,E is for Emptiness,S is for Sex,H is for Hatred.
written by dead or alive , March 16, 2012
Can i earn the Love of Allah by going a$$ up 5 times a day?
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 16, 2012
There are people who think that because Paul was not a direct Apostle of Jesus Christ therefore was not qualified to say anything about Jesus. There were about 8 Disciples of Jesus who penned down the New Testament of Jesus and none of them contradicted what Paul preached and none of the contradicted what the Old Testament Prophet preached. What that means is that the source of the inspiration is the same, whether you are Direct disciples or not. Time, distance are not barriers to Gods inspiration. Jesus promised his disciple that the Holy Spirit will remind them of all that he had taught them John 14:26
The same Holy Spirit was upon Prophet Daniel who saw that the Messiah will be cut off Dan 9:26 for telling the death or ascension of the Messiah 500 years before Jesus died rose again. The same Spirit on Prophet Isaiah who saw the virgin birth of the Christ, his name as Immanuel being interpreted God with us and his name to be call Mighty God and Everlasting father. He also saw the messiah death as Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world. Isaiah 7:14, 9:6,54:1-12
These preachers are neither disciple Jesus Christ nor converts of Paul in the New Testament but they preached the gospel in advance. Can you see why your objection of Paul preaching of the gospel does not hold water?
The Spirit of God is Eternal spirit who inspires both the old and New Testament writers to write about 40 of them and that was why they were all in harmony, no contradiction.
But when the devil came with his own gospel in Mohammed it could not fit in because not of the same spirit. Not because of distance or language but because the Spirit that possessed Mohammed was different.
Isaiah said that Messiah who is the savior is God almighty. Jesus said the Father (God) and Jesus the Son is one, Paul said Jesus is God. What is the contradiction?
Moses says the blood is given for the atonement of the soul and Jesus offer his blood for the atonement of the sins of the world. Paul affirmed it that the blood of Jesus cleanses all from all sins. What is the contradiction?
Isaiah said our self righteousness is like fitly rags before God and Jesus says unless you repent and believe the gospel you will all likewise perish. Paul said all have sinned and come short of the glory of God but we are justified by faith in the blood of Jesus. What are the contradictions?
What is your problem with Paul?
The same Holy Spirit was upon Prophet Daniel who saw that the Messiah will be cut off Dan 9:26 for telling the death or ascension of the Messiah 500 years before Jesus died rose again. The same Spirit on Prophet Isaiah who saw the virgin birth of the Christ, his name as Immanuel being interpreted God with us and his name to be call Mighty God and Everlasting father. He also saw the messiah death as Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world. Isaiah 7:14, 9:6,54:1-12
These preachers are neither disciple Jesus Christ nor converts of Paul in the New Testament but they preached the gospel in advance. Can you see why your objection of Paul preaching of the gospel does not hold water?
The Spirit of God is Eternal spirit who inspires both the old and New Testament writers to write about 40 of them and that was why they were all in harmony, no contradiction.
But when the devil came with his own gospel in Mohammed it could not fit in because not of the same spirit. Not because of distance or language but because the Spirit that possessed Mohammed was different.
Isaiah said that Messiah who is the savior is God almighty. Jesus said the Father (God) and Jesus the Son is one, Paul said Jesus is God. What is the contradiction?
Moses says the blood is given for the atonement of the soul and Jesus offer his blood for the atonement of the sins of the world. Paul affirmed it that the blood of Jesus cleanses all from all sins. What is the contradiction?
Isaiah said our self righteousness is like fitly rags before God and Jesus says unless you repent and believe the gospel you will all likewise perish. Paul said all have sinned and come short of the glory of God but we are justified by faith in the blood of Jesus. What are the contradictions?
What is your problem with Paul?
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 16, 2012
This was my first explanation please go up you will see it even with example.
"a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law."
This is true I gave you an example of the thief on the cross with Jesus. Let me ask you which work of the law quolify the thief to make him fit for paradise that day?
Paul is saying that whether you a gentile or Jew at the point of repentance and faith in Jesus Christ you are justified not guilty of any sin before God. You are regarded as sinless. works only come as evidence of that justification. If you continue in your old sinfull life again that one day justification is nulity because no works of righteousness to back it up as a new creation in Christ. So works only come as evidence of that New life and not the means of it.
What the two preachers are basically saying is that if your are truly saved show the fruits of the new life as evidence of your faith. the works become evidence of the faith.
No contradiction
"a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law."
This is true I gave you an example of the thief on the cross with Jesus. Let me ask you which work of the law quolify the thief to make him fit for paradise that day?
Paul is saying that whether you a gentile or Jew at the point of repentance and faith in Jesus Christ you are justified not guilty of any sin before God. You are regarded as sinless. works only come as evidence of that justification. If you continue in your old sinfull life again that one day justification is nulity because no works of righteousness to back it up as a new creation in Christ. So works only come as evidence of that New life and not the means of it.
What the two preachers are basically saying is that if your are truly saved show the fruits of the new life as evidence of your faith. the works become evidence of the faith.
No contradiction
written by dead or alive , March 16, 2012
Paul was killing the Christians.Then Paul changed from killer to peace maker.
written by rzq , March 16, 2012
Lets look a little closer and really have a good look. If we look at the Greek texts for the above texts:
The same Greek word dikaioo is used by both Paul AND James for the term justification (or “put right with God”) in both passages. While the Today’s English Version does use a different term in their English translation, at least they apply it consistently in both Romans and James.
The same Greek word ergon is used by both Paul and James for the term variously translated as works, deeds, actions or “doing.” While English translators haven’t agreed on the best term, both Paul and James were talking about the same thing. And, with the exception of the NIV, the translators of each version at least are consistent in their own usages between Paul and James. I wonder, however, about the objectivity of the NIV — one of the most popular texts among conservative Christians — in choosing to change the wording used between Paul and James in a way that subtly changes the connotation of Paul to be less in contradiction to James.
The same Greek word pistis is used by both Paul and James for the word that all versions of both passages translated as “faith.” James is clearly rebutting Paul’s scandalous undermining of Jesus’ teachings.
The same Greek word dikaioo is used by both Paul AND James for the term justification (or “put right with God”) in both passages. While the Today’s English Version does use a different term in their English translation, at least they apply it consistently in both Romans and James.
The same Greek word ergon is used by both Paul and James for the term variously translated as works, deeds, actions or “doing.” While English translators haven’t agreed on the best term, both Paul and James were talking about the same thing. And, with the exception of the NIV, the translators of each version at least are consistent in their own usages between Paul and James. I wonder, however, about the objectivity of the NIV — one of the most popular texts among conservative Christians — in choosing to change the wording used between Paul and James in a way that subtly changes the connotation of Paul to be less in contradiction to James.
The same Greek word pistis is used by both Paul and James for the word that all versions of both passages translated as “faith.” James is clearly rebutting Paul’s scandalous undermining of Jesus’ teachings.
written by rzq , March 16, 2012
Paul’s use of that phrase is a restrictive modifying clause to limit the scope of his reference. By omitting it, James at the very least accepts everything in Paul’s more restrictive context, broadened to include additional contexts. But earlier in the same chapter (James 2), just before the verse in question and his reference to Paul’s example of Abraham and Isaac, James discusses behavior (2:8-13) in very specific in terms of deeds of the Law. Aside from the possibility of simply broadening the more narrow focus of Paul, what seems more likely in context is that James does not need to say “of the law” since he has already made it clear a few verses before that he is talking about “deeds of the law.”
In fact, the only credible scenario is that James is clearly rebutting Paul’s scandalous undermining of Jesus’ teachings.
Paul is not only rebutted by James in the examples above, but also admits having some problems getting along with Peter, admitting in Galatians 2:11: “But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.”
In fact, the only credible scenario is that James is clearly rebutting Paul’s scandalous undermining of Jesus’ teachings.
Paul is not only rebutted by James in the examples above, but also admits having some problems getting along with Peter, admitting in Galatians 2:11: “But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.”
written by rzq , March 16, 2012
The point in making is that Paul did not disagree with Jesus(pbuh) on many points but did so on some points of important Christian doctrine.
Now I know you are likely to throw 1 Corinthians13 at me. I have no objection to that.
The point is that Jesus was the master Paul was the apostle, there should have been no differences not even once. If Jesus( pbuh) said anything then Paul should have repeated with no additions or omittions.
How dare Paul differ even slightly from the master and who gave him the artistic licence. That in a nutshell was the problem James had with Paul. Upon reading I side with James and hence the writings of Paul are viewed with massive suspicion.
That then becomes a problem because Paul and his writing are 33% of the new testament!
Now I know you are likely to throw 1 Corinthians13 at me. I have no objection to that.
The point is that Jesus was the master Paul was the apostle, there should have been no differences not even once. If Jesus( pbuh) said anything then Paul should have repeated with no additions or omittions.
How dare Paul differ even slightly from the master and who gave him the artistic licence. That in a nutshell was the problem James had with Paul. Upon reading I side with James and hence the writings of Paul are viewed with massive suspicion.
That then becomes a problem because Paul and his writing are 33% of the new testament!
written by dead or alive , March 16, 2012
What changed Saul into Paul?Any Muslim out there tell me?
written by pipo , March 16, 2012
"but monotheistic cults are most fallacious since they can survive only by destruction of other civilisations and cultures"
The only one of those religions that would not exist today, if it had not taken up the sword, is Islam...and it did so right from the start...the sword apparently being more telling than the book.
written by Clement-Islam-Watch pastor , March 16, 2012
It appears you don't read my explanation above I leave that yourself.
Already you have said "Why am I not a christian? Islam makes more sense to me! "
That means you believe that all the rubbish in the Quran and the hadiths make sense to you than the Bible.
That warfare is ordained for you to fight the infidels and wipe the idolaters to the last until Islam alone remain the religion of Allah?. That you can beat your wife and can divorce her any day any time,for she has half the IQ of a man? That you marry as much as 4 and as many concubines and slave girls as possible? That you should not make friend with Jews and Christians, retaliate any evil for evil?. That your destiny has been sealed with Allah before the world began?That persecution is worse than bloodshed? That you must bow toward kaaba the house of idolatry 5 times daily and go there to circulate around it and kiss the Blackstone at least once in your life time?
You said all these make more sense to you than what the Bible teaches that you should not kill or commit adultery? Marry only one wife love her and no divorce, love your neighbor as your self do not render evil for evil but render evil with good love your enemies and pray for your persecutors. That faith in Jesus only brings forgiveness of sins and justification before God. That without holiness no man shall see God. That the Almighty God is so mighty that he manifest himself in 3 personality, as the father in heaven, and as the son once lived among us and gave his life as ram some for our sins as a token of his love for us and as The Holy Spirit He indwells us and abide with us forever. In his name we can heal the sick deliver the oppressed by the devil.
You say this does not make sense to you?
You are indeed wonderful
Already you have said "Why am I not a christian? Islam makes more sense to me! "
That means you believe that all the rubbish in the Quran and the hadiths make sense to you than the Bible.
That warfare is ordained for you to fight the infidels and wipe the idolaters to the last until Islam alone remain the religion of Allah?. That you can beat your wife and can divorce her any day any time,for she has half the IQ of a man? That you marry as much as 4 and as many concubines and slave girls as possible? That you should not make friend with Jews and Christians, retaliate any evil for evil?. That your destiny has been sealed with Allah before the world began?That persecution is worse than bloodshed? That you must bow toward kaaba the house of idolatry 5 times daily and go there to circulate around it and kiss the Blackstone at least once in your life time?
You said all these make more sense to you than what the Bible teaches that you should not kill or commit adultery? Marry only one wife love her and no divorce, love your neighbor as your self do not render evil for evil but render evil with good love your enemies and pray for your persecutors. That faith in Jesus only brings forgiveness of sins and justification before God. That without holiness no man shall see God. That the Almighty God is so mighty that he manifest himself in 3 personality, as the father in heaven, and as the son once lived among us and gave his life as ram some for our sins as a token of his love for us and as The Holy Spirit He indwells us and abide with us forever. In his name we can heal the sick deliver the oppressed by the devil.
You say this does not make sense to you?
You are indeed wonderful
written by rzq , March 16, 2012
"You say this does not make sense to you?"
It fulfils my spiritual needs. Is that not enough pastor!
It fulfils my spiritual needs. Is that not enough pastor!
written by Clement-Islam-Watch pastor , March 16, 2012
"It fulfils my spiritual needs. Is that not enough pastor! "
Wonderful
which man will not like the issue of surplus women on earth and in heaven way?
Good luck for you
Wonderful
which man will not like the issue of surplus women on earth and in heaven way?
Good luck for you
written by rzq , March 16, 2012
So you are not seeing it. Let's try a different way!
Jesus(pbuh) pre ministry would have been classified a Jew, a rabbi if you will!
Now pre Christianity he would have observed mosaic law!
He would have been pretty clued up about the ins and outs of Jewish law. Do you agree with the above pastor?
In his first public teaching, the Sermon on the Mount, he made it very clear in Matt. 5:18-19: “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
Even some of the occasions when Jesus seems to add to the Law or teach in new and different ways, he goes to great lengths to show that it is based on the Law. For example, when this rabbi asked by a “lawyer” (one versed in the Law of Moses) what was the greatest commandment in the Law, Jesus turns the question back to him and asks what is in the Law, and from that extrapolates his great commandments to Love God (from Deut 6:5) and Love Neighbor as Self (from Lev. 19:18) which was clearly the centerpiece of his ministry and his doctrine of active love and compassion for all.
Jesus(pbuh) pre ministry would have been classified a Jew, a rabbi if you will!
Now pre Christianity he would have observed mosaic law!
He would have been pretty clued up about the ins and outs of Jewish law. Do you agree with the above pastor?
In his first public teaching, the Sermon on the Mount, he made it very clear in Matt. 5:18-19: “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
Even some of the occasions when Jesus seems to add to the Law or teach in new and different ways, he goes to great lengths to show that it is based on the Law. For example, when this rabbi asked by a “lawyer” (one versed in the Law of Moses) what was the greatest commandment in the Law, Jesus turns the question back to him and asks what is in the Law, and from that extrapolates his great commandments to Love God (from Deut 6:5) and Love Neighbor as Self (from Lev. 19:18) which was clearly the centerpiece of his ministry and his doctrine of active love and compassion for all.
written by rzq , March 16, 2012
Now contrast that with Paul:
Paul, on the other hand, wants to throw out the Law of Moses! Romans 3:19-21: “Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets.” [Emphasis added]
And even more explicitly, Paul states in Romans 6:14, that “sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.”
Additionally, when Paul denounces the need for compassionate actions, or which Jesus and others spoke so much, in Romans 3:27-28 and Galatians 2:16, he also specifically mentions which works: that obedience to the Law is what is not required, contrary to Jesus’ statements.
Paul, on the other hand, wants to throw out the Law of Moses! Romans 3:19-21: “Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets.” [Emphasis added]
And even more explicitly, Paul states in Romans 6:14, that “sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.”
Additionally, when Paul denounces the need for compassionate actions, or which Jesus and others spoke so much, in Romans 3:27-28 and Galatians 2:16, he also specifically mentions which works: that obedience to the Law is what is not required, contrary to Jesus’ statements.
written by Guy Macher , March 16, 2012
"pull the princes down from their thrones and raise high the lowly" and "fill the starving with good things and send the rich away empty"
Please cite that reference.
Please cite that reference.
written by then lie , March 17, 2012
He say:
The Qur'an is a book of teachings by Muhammadan thoughts, the founder of Islam.
Quran from Allah
Islam from Allah
open Quran to prove this.
The Qur'an is a book of teachings by Muhammadan thoughts, the founder of Islam.
Quran from Allah
Islam from Allah
open Quran to prove this.
written by Clement-Islam-Watch-Pastor , March 17, 2012
I think your problem is comprehension of what you read. Even the very passages you quote as those of Paul vindicate him as not being against the law as those that must be kept as a proofs of the new life of love.
You rightly said that Jesus central message is love of God and Man and that is the summary of whole Bible. Did you say that Paul was against that?
read his classic on love 1Cor 13 .
You have to tell me which of the Ten commandments and the law of Moses that Mohammad kept? Mohammad did not keep even one and that is the religion that make sense to you. Jesus and Paul kept the law of God Mohamed kept none including the law of Sabbath. He coveted the wife of his adopted son and committed s incest with her in the name of marriage as against the tenth commandment.
Paul teaching on love is unbeatable of which you said was Jesus main message.
what was the message of Mohammed on love. please give one verse and reconcile it with numerous hate verses of the Quran and tell us whether or not it was a sensible thing to believe the message of the Quran as against the bible.
You rightly said that Jesus central message is love of God and Man and that is the summary of whole Bible. Did you say that Paul was against that?
read his classic on love 1Cor 13 .
You have to tell me which of the Ten commandments and the law of Moses that Mohammad kept? Mohammad did not keep even one and that is the religion that make sense to you. Jesus and Paul kept the law of God Mohamed kept none including the law of Sabbath. He coveted the wife of his adopted son and committed s incest with her in the name of marriage as against the tenth commandment.
Paul teaching on love is unbeatable of which you said was Jesus main message.
what was the message of Mohammed on love. please give one verse and reconcile it with numerous hate verses of the Quran and tell us whether or not it was a sensible thing to believe the message of the Quran as against the bible.
written by then lie , March 17, 2012
Islam From Allah.Allah say to Prophet Muhammad to follow Prophet Ibrahim(Abraham) religion his Grand grand father. they all prophets the messenger of Allah.They obey and worship Allah no to another god. All muslim in the world before, now or for the future until the doomdays they worship Allah.there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.
written by Clement-Islam-Watch-Pastor , March 17, 2012
show me in the Bible that where Abraham is said to worship Allah in the Islamic fashion. Beside the God of Abraham is called Yahweh and not Allah. Abraham was an Hebrew not an Arab. He lived in Canaan the present Palestine and not in Mecc and kaaba the house of Islamic Idolatry
Stop making of fool of yourself here.
Stop making of fool of yourself here.
written by duh_swami , March 17, 2012
Islam From Allah.Allah say to Prophet Muhammad to follow Prophet Ibrahim(Abraham) religion
I didn't know Allah ever talked directly to Mohammad...If Allah did that, why did he need Gabriel? Did you know Abraham was a Hindu? The proof is in the name 'then lie'...
ABRAHAM...take the A off the front and put it in the end and you get BRAHAMA...
ABRAM...same thing BRAMA...
Hindu, then lie, Hindu...
I didn't know Allah ever talked directly to Mohammad...If Allah did that, why did he need Gabriel? Did you know Abraham was a Hindu? The proof is in the name 'then lie'...
ABRAHAM...take the A off the front and put it in the end and you get BRAHAMA...
ABRAM...same thing BRAMA...
Hindu, then lie, Hindu...
written by rzq , March 17, 2012
Normally I would just ignore you. You pop in write a load if garbage about Islam and disappear! However "please" counts for alot in my book.
Reference is the Luke 1:52
Translation taken from the 2010 Aramaic bible
"Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
“He has cast down the mighty from thrones and has raised up the lowly.”
Out of interest, why would you ask for that reference???
Reference is the Luke 1:52
Translation taken from the 2010 Aramaic bible
"Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
“He has cast down the mighty from thrones and has raised up the lowly.”
Out of interest, why would you ask for that reference???
written by duh_swami , March 17, 2012
You waste your time trying to be an expert on scripture...You would be better off studying the Haynes Auto Repair Manual, and earn to do something useful...
written by rzq , March 17, 2012
You ask me to compare apples and oranges!
Muhammed(pbuh) is mentioned only 4 times in the Quran and once as Ahmed.
In the entire 30 chapters he is mentioned by name 5 times.
There is very little about him in the Quran.
I would be more than happy to quote the Quranic verses on mercy, forgiveness and love!
Muhammed(pbuh) is mentioned only 4 times in the Quran and once as Ahmed.
In the entire 30 chapters he is mentioned by name 5 times.
There is very little about him in the Quran.
I would be more than happy to quote the Quranic verses on mercy, forgiveness and love!
written by dead or alive , March 17, 2012
Can humanity progress beyond the `law`and in our hearts truly love one another?
written by fineliving56 , March 17, 2012
How could humanity progress when law and heart and fairness and honesty and harmony and golden rule ... etc ... are alien to so many minds of this wonderful plant's population,
A title of song that reminds me of Muhammad and I could imagine Muhammad saying this to his Muslims from his grave under Ayshia's bed :
'' Love me enough to lie " by Daniela ...
And lie,they did and have been doing to themselves and others,to keep up the original lie that Muhammad has started.
Islam is a lie
A title of song that reminds me of Muhammad and I could imagine Muhammad saying this to his Muslims from his grave under Ayshia's bed :
'' Love me enough to lie " by Daniela ...
And lie,they did and have been doing to themselves and others,to keep up the original lie that Muhammad has started.
Islam is a lie
written by dead or alive , March 17, 2012
I agree with your views. I think when each one of us tear down our`fences` of fear,hate,tradition and philosophy. Maybe we can begin to see others as more important than ourself.
written by Muslim & Proud , March 17, 2012
A title of song that reminds me of Muhammad and I could imagine Muhammad saying this to his Muslims from his grave under Ayshia's bed :
'' Love me enough to lie " by Daniela ...
Do you listen to this song again.......again......again....?
So even as an ex-muslim, you are regularly reminded of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).......through non-muslim songs...........interesting.
Does the song make you leave Islam again........again.......again?
written by dead or alive , March 17, 2012
In order for one to break down barriers of human weakness,One must``Come out from among them``
written by Muslim and proud , March 17, 2012
"In order for one to break down barriers of human weakness,One must``Come out from among them``"
I look forward to you coming out - 'from among them' ;-)
I look forward to you coming out - 'from among them' ;-)
written by Clement-Islam-watch Pastor , March 17, 2012
I discover that during this our short discuss you have not answer many of the Questions put to you, you can go through my posts again and see.
I did not ask you to compare apples and oranges. Just quote
Mohammad's teaching on love your neighbor and reconcile it with his hate verses on unbelievers. He specifically say you should not make friends from Jews or Christians they are your permanent enemies.
Tell us why Mohammad replaced the commandments of God with 5 meaningless rituals of prostration,5 times daily, The Ramadan fast,the Zak-at the Hajji and of course his style of monotheism with his name attached to it. He called this the Pillar of Islam. This means that the ten commandments are no long important and basic for our relationship with God. Why?
He personally make sure he break all of them with absolute abandonment. Now you are crying fowl that Paul taught that we should forget about the Law as against Jesus teaching that no ditto of the law will pass away until all be fulfilled. Which of God law did Mohammad fulfilled? You forgot that even your master did not keep any why this double standard?
one thing you don't know is that the Law is make of two parts: the moral law and ceremonial law. Jesus fulfill all of them. When Paul say we are not under law he meant the ceremonial law which Jesus has fulfilled and we don't need to keep those laws again: like the laws of animal sacrifices, new moon and feasts all these are fulfilled in Christ atoning death and resurrection, but the moral law the ten commandments predicated on love still stand.
remember the golden rule taught by Jesus that you should do to others what you want them do unto you, but your prophets golden rule is that you should do unto others what you would not want them to do to you. like kill them enslaved rape their wives, assassinate them, retaliate, fight them, render evil for evil etc
And you say this make more sense to you than what Jesus taught. Why?
I did not ask you to compare apples and oranges. Just quote
Mohammad's teaching on love your neighbor and reconcile it with his hate verses on unbelievers. He specifically say you should not make friends from Jews or Christians they are your permanent enemies.
Tell us why Mohammad replaced the commandments of God with 5 meaningless rituals of prostration,5 times daily, The Ramadan fast,the Zak-at the Hajji and of course his style of monotheism with his name attached to it. He called this the Pillar of Islam. This means that the ten commandments are no long important and basic for our relationship with God. Why?
He personally make sure he break all of them with absolute abandonment. Now you are crying fowl that Paul taught that we should forget about the Law as against Jesus teaching that no ditto of the law will pass away until all be fulfilled. Which of God law did Mohammad fulfilled? You forgot that even your master did not keep any why this double standard?
one thing you don't know is that the Law is make of two parts: the moral law and ceremonial law. Jesus fulfill all of them. When Paul say we are not under law he meant the ceremonial law which Jesus has fulfilled and we don't need to keep those laws again: like the laws of animal sacrifices, new moon and feasts all these are fulfilled in Christ atoning death and resurrection, but the moral law the ten commandments predicated on love still stand.
remember the golden rule taught by Jesus that you should do to others what you want them do unto you, but your prophets golden rule is that you should do unto others what you would not want them to do to you. like kill them enslaved rape their wives, assassinate them, retaliate, fight them, render evil for evil etc
And you say this make more sense to you than what Jesus taught. Why?
written by Muslim and proud , March 17, 2012
"Do you mean that i should move``In among Islam``?"
No
No
written by fineliving56 , March 17, 2012
It looks like things have to be made simpler for Muslim for him to understand ...
Let us say he fell, head first, in a sower, would he be able to smell ....a flower ...or Apple pie ... or perfume ... Of course not ... He would be overwhelmed with the smell of the nasty stuff!! ... Correct?
That is similar to Islam
If you are in it ........... that is all you smell
Now do I do not have to explain it better ..do I ? ... or did you get it ... if not ... I wont mind to elaborate.
Let us say he fell, head first, in a sower, would he be able to smell ....a flower ...or Apple pie ... or perfume ... Of course not ... He would be overwhelmed with the smell of the nasty stuff!! ... Correct?
That is similar to Islam
If you are in it ........... that is all you smell
Now do I do not have to explain it better ..do I ? ... or did you get it ... if not ... I wont mind to elaborate.
written by dead or alive , March 17, 2012
If i am moving away from the world s religions and political system.Who should i place my trust in?
written by Muslim & Proud , March 17, 2012
Let us say he fell, head first, in a sower, would he be able to smell ....a flower ...or Apple pie ... or perfume ... Of course not ... He would be overwhelmed with the smell of the nasty stuff!! ... Correct?
Incorrect.
A SOWER is someone who sows.
Well done for a making a complete fool of yourself - you are an expert at doing this.
The last time you made a fool of yourself, you asked you friend Malem if he CONDOMS murder..............lol
Well done and congratulations.
Please feel free to elaborate, whilst making a fool of yourself again.
written by Muslim & Proud , March 17, 2012
If i am moving away from the world s religions and political system.Who should i place my trust in?
Follow your heart.
written by dead or alive , March 17, 2012
You know what fineliving56 is saying.Do we here at Islam-Watch have a lawyer who goes by the name`Muslim and Proud?
written by fineliving56 , March 17, 2012
What are you ... twelve?
Making spelling mistakes does not make a person a fool ... but approve of the crime of killing a critic of Muhammad, is not only a FOOLISH ACT but a CRIMINAL act called threats ... a man or a women who does that, need to be taken away from around public because we never know when they might strike .
BTW
Are you going to send someone to kill me because I am criticizing Muhammad or you rather you do it you self ?
Making spelling mistakes does not make a person a fool ... but approve of the crime of killing a critic of Muhammad, is not only a FOOLISH ACT but a CRIMINAL act called threats ... a man or a women who does that, need to be taken away from around public because we never know when they might strike .
BTW
Are you going to send someone to kill me because I am criticizing Muhammad or you rather you do it you self ?
written by Muslim & Proud , March 17, 2012
I know what she was "trying" to say and if she said this in public, she would probably be arrested by a non-muslim.
You see when somebody like fineliving56 (who claims to be an ex-muslimah) try to get clever, they put their foot right in it.
I feel honoured to help such people to realise how good they are at "putting their foot in it".
Hope this helps.
You see when somebody like fineliving56 (who claims to be an ex-muslimah) try to get clever, they put their foot right in it.
I feel honoured to help such people to realise how good they are at "putting their foot in it".
Hope this helps.
written by Muslim and proud , March 17, 2012
"but approve of the crime of killing a critic of Muhammad, is not only a FOOLISH ACT but a CRIMINAL act called threats ..."
Really?
This is called freedom of speech ;-)
"Are you going to send someone to kill me because I am criticizing Muhammad or you rather you do it you self ?"
In 4 weeks that I have been here, provide me with just ONE example where I have threatened anyone. I mean let's face it, this is where all the cowards get their kicks - so it would be child's play to be as threatening as anyone wants.
Good luck
Really?
This is called freedom of speech ;-)
"Are you going to send someone to kill me because I am criticizing Muhammad or you rather you do it you self ?"
In 4 weeks that I have been here, provide me with just ONE example where I have threatened anyone. I mean let's face it, this is where all the cowards get their kicks - so it would be child's play to be as threatening as anyone wants.
Good luck
written by dead or alive , March 17, 2012
I quoted``You know what fineliving56 is saying``Not what you quoted-``I know what she was`trying to say``I think a judge will over rule you. m&p.Come back and we start again.
written by duh_swami , March 17, 2012
Muslim liars don't lie best but they do lie consistently..Especially those of lesser intelligence who advocate murder and make threats...
written by fineliving56 , March 17, 2012
Free speech? ... yaa right ?
You made a huge Mistake and you are the one who stepped in it ...
if you walk out here in the streets and have a sign that says '' I approve of killing people who criticize Muhammad'' ... see how fast you will be carted to your place in jail ...
it is just one step away from saying '' I like to kill critics of Muhammad "
BTW
Just to remind ... Muhammad is a mass killer
You made a huge Mistake and you are the one who stepped in it ...
if you walk out here in the streets and have a sign that says '' I approve of killing people who criticize Muhammad'' ... see how fast you will be carted to your place in jail ...
it is just one step away from saying '' I like to kill critics of Muhammad "
BTW
Just to remind ... Muhammad is a mass killer
written by dead or alive , March 17, 2012
Start by quoting what i quoted;``You know what fineliving56 is saying``.
written by Muslim and proud , March 17, 2012
"if you walk out here in the streets and have a sign that says '' I approve of killing people who criticize Muhammad'' ... see how fast you will be carted to your place in jail ..."
That's where you and I differ you see. I have better things to do in life than threaten those people like you who leave Islam and cannot het a life. There are many people who favour capital punishment - they don't have to walk around with a sign on their forehead.......
"it is just one step away from saying '' I like to kill critics of Muhammad"
And that's what you want me to say right? Don't think so.
"Just to remind ... Muhammad is a mass killer"
Prove it
That's where you and I differ you see. I have better things to do in life than threaten those people like you who leave Islam and cannot het a life. There are many people who favour capital punishment - they don't have to walk around with a sign on their forehead.......
"it is just one step away from saying '' I like to kill critics of Muhammad"
And that's what you want me to say right? Don't think so.
"Just to remind ... Muhammad is a mass killer"
Prove it
written by Muslim and proud , March 17, 2012
"Start by quoting what i quoted;``You know what fineliving56 is saying``."
My pleasure:
My pleasure:
I quoted``You know what fineliving56 is saying``Not what you quoted-``I know what she was`trying to say``I think a judge will over rule you. m&p.Come back and we start again.
written by duh_swami , March 17, 2012
Civilized people have no capital punishments for insults...Only uncivilized Islam with its Murder advocates has that...
written by fineliving56 , March 17, 2012
You are here aren't you ? ... you did threaten over the internet ...didn't you ?...
I understand why you would not go in the street because you are too afraid ...so you hide behind the internet and you make threats ...
news for you ... Mister * Kill the critics of Muhammad *... I have the right to criticize Muhammad and Islam and Allah and all the Muslims like you who approve of *kill to donation* and you cant intimidate me or anyone else for that matter ... do you understand !!!
I have a long list of famous people names who were being intimidated and threatened by Muslims to stop them from saying anything that include the word Islam...
What a joke Islam and Muslims are ... they cant get people to like them [ and why would they .. [ some of them do act like caged monsters after all ] and convert to Islam , they have to use threats to get it ...
IT IS NOT GOING TO WORK ... OK
HERE IS A SAMPLE
Muhammad is a little girly molester ... he supposedly have to be the perfect prophet [ not on his life] ... the roll model for all human beings ... but he lusts after 9 years old instead ... sick man.
I understand why you would not go in the street because you are too afraid ...so you hide behind the internet and you make threats ...
news for you ... Mister * Kill the critics of Muhammad *... I have the right to criticize Muhammad and Islam and Allah and all the Muslims like you who approve of *kill to donation* and you cant intimidate me or anyone else for that matter ... do you understand !!!
I have a long list of famous people names who were being intimidated and threatened by Muslims to stop them from saying anything that include the word Islam...
What a joke Islam and Muslims are ... they cant get people to like them [ and why would they .. [ some of them do act like caged monsters after all ] and convert to Islam , they have to use threats to get it ...
IT IS NOT GOING TO WORK ... OK
HERE IS A SAMPLE
Muhammad is a little girly molester ... he supposedly have to be the perfect prophet [ not on his life] ... the roll model for all human beings ... but he lusts after 9 years old instead ... sick man.
written by Muslim and proud , March 17, 2012
"I understand why you would not go in the street because you are too afraid ...so you hide behind the internet and you make threats ... "
That is a perfect description of the IW Editor and his cronies.
"news for you ... Mister * Kill the critics of Muhammad *... I have the right to criticize Muhammad and Islam and Allah and all the Muslims like you who approve of *kill to donation* and you cant intimidate me or anyone else for that matter ... do you understand !!!"
Take a chill pill and maybe some advice from your son - do pass on my regards to him - I am waiting for his Hadith for 3 weeks.
"Muhammad is a little girly molester ... he supposedly have to be the perfect prophet [ not on his life] ... the roll model for all human beings ... but he lusts after 9 years old instead ... sick man."
IS = current tense. So according to you Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is still alive??? You are one screwed up biyaatch - with all due respect.
Seeya
That is a perfect description of the IW Editor and his cronies.
"news for you ... Mister * Kill the critics of Muhammad *... I have the right to criticize Muhammad and Islam and Allah and all the Muslims like you who approve of *kill to donation* and you cant intimidate me or anyone else for that matter ... do you understand !!!"
Take a chill pill and maybe some advice from your son - do pass on my regards to him - I am waiting for his Hadith for 3 weeks.
"Muhammad is a little girly molester ... he supposedly have to be the perfect prophet [ not on his life] ... the roll model for all human beings ... but he lusts after 9 years old instead ... sick man."
IS = current tense. So according to you Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is still alive??? You are one screwed up biyaatch - with all due respect.
Seeya
written by Muslim and proud , March 17, 2012
"How Muslims float away from a discussion."
Like I said.......bring it on.
Like I said.......bring it on.
written by then lie , March 17, 2012
Then lie
written by Clement-Islam-Watch-Pastor , March 17, 2012
show me in the Bible that where Abraham is said to worship Allah in the Islamic fashion. Beside the God of Abraham is called Yahweh and not Allah. Abraham was an Hebrew not an Arab. He lived in Canaan the present Palestine and not in Mecc and kaaba the house of Islamic Idolatry
Stop making of fool of yourself here.
clement IW pastor are you ??jews or christian?if you jews that is right according you.but if you christian.they believe abraham worship Allah not worship yahweh.so christian never give something like this in OS.Christian and jews different
leviticus 3
(14) Then he shall offer from it as his offering made by fire to the Lord: the fat that covers and is on the entrails,
16) The priest shall burn them on the altar as food, offered by fire, for a sweet and satisfying fragrance. All the fat is the Lord's.
your god satisfying with this?only spirit in junggle happy with this.this must be not god. thinks better men.
and we are islam believe Ibrahim is the messenger and famous prophet of Allah.Now the world's billions of Muslims believe and worship Allah.this fact. shame on you friends. be better.Do not envy each brother arab thus reject the truth of Allah. salam.
written by Clement-Islam-Watch-Pastor , March 17, 2012
show me in the Bible that where Abraham is said to worship Allah in the Islamic fashion. Beside the God of Abraham is called Yahweh and not Allah. Abraham was an Hebrew not an Arab. He lived in Canaan the present Palestine and not in Mecc and kaaba the house of Islamic Idolatry
Stop making of fool of yourself here.
clement IW pastor are you ??jews or christian?if you jews that is right according you.but if you christian.they believe abraham worship Allah not worship yahweh.so christian never give something like this in OS.Christian and jews different
leviticus 3
(14) Then he shall offer from it as his offering made by fire to the Lord: the fat that covers and is on the entrails,
16) The priest shall burn them on the altar as food, offered by fire, for a sweet and satisfying fragrance. All the fat is the Lord's.
your god satisfying with this?only spirit in junggle happy with this.this must be not god. thinks better men.
and we are islam believe Ibrahim is the messenger and famous prophet of Allah.Now the world's billions of Muslims believe and worship Allah.this fact. shame on you friends. be better.Do not envy each brother arab thus reject the truth of Allah. salam.
written by anders , March 18, 2012
Still no answer to that curly question that if Jesus gave salvation to the thief on the cross based on his response to Jesus so what happened to his good works? Jesus had the power and authority to give him eternal life based on his faith in Jesus . And does Jesus therefore have the AUTHORITY to judge humans ? Obviously yes. More than a messenger then…
James makes it clear that faith without works is not actual faith. But works flow from true faith.(James 2:20 etc). Abraham is actually the prime example of this. Abraham had faith in God (Yahweh’s earlier promise in Gen 17:21 that through Isaac the blessing would be given to mankind). Now he offered Isaac after the promise given to him by Yahweh(NOT before).Therefore it is clear his faith was revealed ( in Gen 22:8) before his “work” of offering Isaac as the sacrifice). -that’s the faith and works show folks.
James makes it clear that faith without works is not actual faith. But works flow from true faith.(James 2:20 etc). Abraham is actually the prime example of this. Abraham had faith in God (Yahweh’s earlier promise in Gen 17:21 that through Isaac the blessing would be given to mankind). Now he offered Isaac after the promise given to him by Yahweh(NOT before).Therefore it is clear his faith was revealed ( in Gen 22:8) before his “work” of offering Isaac as the sacrifice). -that’s the faith and works show folks.
written by rzq , March 18, 2012
Here is islams version of love thy neighbour
"Not one of you is a believer until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself"
Here is a quranic reference:
Worship Allaah and join none with Him (in worship); and do good to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, Al-Masaakeen (the poor), the neighbour who is near of kin, the neighbour who is a stranger, the companion by your side…”[al-Nisaa’ 4:36]
Here is a list of how you should treat and behave with your neighbours:
Among the rights of one neighbour over another as affirmed by Islam are the initiation of greetings, visiting him if he is sick, offering condolences if calamity befalls him, congratulating him at times of joy, overlooking his mistakes, concealing his faults, bearing his annoyance with patience, giving him gifts, lending him money if he needs it, lowering one’s gaze from looking at his womenfolk, and guiding him to that which will benefit him in his religious and worldly affairs.
"Not one of you is a believer until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself"
Here is a quranic reference:
Worship Allaah and join none with Him (in worship); and do good to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, Al-Masaakeen (the poor), the neighbour who is near of kin, the neighbour who is a stranger, the companion by your side…”[al-Nisaa’ 4:36]
Here is a list of how you should treat and behave with your neighbours:
Among the rights of one neighbour over another as affirmed by Islam are the initiation of greetings, visiting him if he is sick, offering condolences if calamity befalls him, congratulating him at times of joy, overlooking his mistakes, concealing his faults, bearing his annoyance with patience, giving him gifts, lending him money if he needs it, lowering one’s gaze from looking at his womenfolk, and guiding him to that which will benefit him in his religious and worldly affairs.
written by rzq , March 18, 2012
How do I concile the above with the "hate verses". To you they appear as hate verses but to me they are a green light to stop any opression befalling me from you! I can then bounce you around like a basket ball, treat you like you were my ginger stepson! (pardon the expressions).
Islam classifies absolutely everything and I think you misunderstand.
Think about this. I can marry a Christian/Jewish woman and she can retain her religion throught the marriage without any compulsion. Yet you think I cannot befriend any non Muslims?? That does not make any sense!!!
Islam classifies absolutely everything and I think you misunderstand.
Think about this. I can marry a Christian/Jewish woman and she can retain her religion throught the marriage without any compulsion. Yet you think I cannot befriend any non Muslims?? That does not make any sense!!!
written by bundypig , March 18, 2012
go to christian- watch and join in the merry ment and if you can't find it, create it, you can be just like allah, copying some one else lol
written by rzq , March 18, 2012
Islam classifies relationships into 4 categories.
Muwalat
Muawasat
Mudarat
Mu'amalat
Surah al-Mumtahinah (60:8): 'Allah does not forbid you from treating those who do not fight you on your faith, nor have they driven you out of your homes, with benevolence and equity.'
You and I cannot have a spiritual relationship. (muwalat) That's where you are out!
Eg if I wanted to remember the Quran off by heart. This would require years of time with my teacher. It's an intense relationship.
Pastor you could have a degree in Islamic studies from Cambridge but I could do a hafiz studies with you!!!
I bet you are gutted now!!!
Muwalat
Muawasat
Mudarat
Mu'amalat
Surah al-Mumtahinah (60:8): 'Allah does not forbid you from treating those who do not fight you on your faith, nor have they driven you out of your homes, with benevolence and equity.'
You and I cannot have a spiritual relationship. (muwalat) That's where you are out!
Eg if I wanted to remember the Quran off by heart. This would require years of time with my teacher. It's an intense relationship.
Pastor you could have a degree in Islamic studies from Cambridge but I could do a hafiz studies with you!!!
I bet you are gutted now!!!
written by duh_swami , March 18, 2012
Reading these comments is like watching the movie, 'Alice in Wonderland', except that the movie was in color...My fairy tale is far better than your fairy tale, and I can prove by quoting from the book of fairy tales...You have all eaten from the magick mushroom of fairy land, and are now hallucinating...It won't be long until the Red Queen appears and starts shouting 'off with their heads'...That's an important part of one fairy tale...
written by rzq , March 18, 2012
"I could not do hafiz studies with you" above is a typo error! Just because Islam has classified that relationship does not mean it does not exist in Judaism or Christianity! You go to church then you want to see a priest, not a Muslim who knows a little bit about Christianity giving the sermon.
Everything else is all good! Footy, dinners, holidays ect etc.
Everything else is all good! Footy, dinners, holidays ect etc.
written by Yibel , March 19, 2012
written by rzq , March 17, 2012
"You ask me to compare apples and oranges!
Muhammed(pbuh) is mentioned only 4 times in the Quran and once as Ahmed.
In the entire 30 chapters he is mentioned by name 5 times.
There is very little about him in the Quran."
While the title Muhammad is mentioned only 4 times in the Qur'an, Muhammad refers to himself in numerous places throughout the Qur'an:
as "apostle": 9:58, 49:4, 49:7, 61:6, 65:10
as "The Apostle" or "His Apostle": 47:29, 47:33, 33:57, 33:71, 49:14, 49:15, 58:13, 58:20-21, 58:22, 5:55,
as "you" in numerous places including: 3:122, 158-160, 80:3, 40:76, 49:5, 4:80, 28:44-46, 8:30, 73:1, 68:1
as "Allah and His Apostle", "Our Apostle" or "Apostle": 5:19, 58:8, 58:9, 58:12, 4:59, 4:61, 4:64, 4:66, 4:81, 4:83, 5:41, 5:66, 8:24, 8:28, 8:41, 73:15, 59:3-8, 33:21-22,
as "He": 80:1
as "Prophet": 33:53, 33:57, 33:56, 33:59, 58:11, 33:6, 33:13, 60;12, 66:1, 66:3, 66:8, 66:9,
as "a prophet of their own": 50:1
as "I"; 41:6
as "His Servant": 17:1, 72:19,
as "Ahmad": 61:6
and in Qur'an surrah 47 Muhammad
"He that obeys the Apostle obeys Allah." 4:81
"Will they not ponder on the Qur'an? If it had not come from Allah, they could have surely found in it many contradictions." 4:82
Given that there are many contradictions (and errors and nonsense) in the Qur'an, the verdict is in: The Qur'an DID NOT come from Allah! As per 4:82
"You ask me to compare apples and oranges!
Muhammed(pbuh) is mentioned only 4 times in the Quran and once as Ahmed.
In the entire 30 chapters he is mentioned by name 5 times.
There is very little about him in the Quran."
While the title Muhammad is mentioned only 4 times in the Qur'an, Muhammad refers to himself in numerous places throughout the Qur'an:
as "apostle": 9:58, 49:4, 49:7, 61:6, 65:10
as "The Apostle" or "His Apostle": 47:29, 47:33, 33:57, 33:71, 49:14, 49:15, 58:13, 58:20-21, 58:22, 5:55,
as "you" in numerous places including: 3:122, 158-160, 80:3, 40:76, 49:5, 4:80, 28:44-46, 8:30, 73:1, 68:1
as "Allah and His Apostle", "Our Apostle" or "Apostle": 5:19, 58:8, 58:9, 58:12, 4:59, 4:61, 4:64, 4:66, 4:81, 4:83, 5:41, 5:66, 8:24, 8:28, 8:41, 73:15, 59:3-8, 33:21-22,
as "He": 80:1
as "Prophet": 33:53, 33:57, 33:56, 33:59, 58:11, 33:6, 33:13, 60;12, 66:1, 66:3, 66:8, 66:9,
as "a prophet of their own": 50:1
as "I"; 41:6
as "His Servant": 17:1, 72:19,
as "Ahmad": 61:6
and in Qur'an surrah 47 Muhammad
"He that obeys the Apostle obeys Allah." 4:81
"Will they not ponder on the Qur'an? If it had not come from Allah, they could have surely found in it many contradictions." 4:82
Given that there are many contradictions (and errors and nonsense) in the Qur'an, the verdict is in: The Qur'an DID NOT come from Allah! As per 4:82
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 19, 2012
"Not one of you is a believer until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself"
Which hadiths reference is this?
“Worship Allaah and join none with Him (in worship); and do good to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, Al-Masaakeen (the poor), the neighbour who is near of kin, the neighbour who is a stranger, the companion by your side…”[al-Nisaa’ 4:36] “
The neighbour as defined in this verses referred only to neighbours who are Muslims and family relations, what of your unbelieving neighbours? The polytheist, Jews, your enemies and the Christians, they are not your neighbour, right?
Let me tell you what Jesus said about this kind of Islamic love.
Mat 5:43-48“43 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”
You can see that Your Islamic kind of love does not pass God’s kind of love that he expects from human. It lacks the perfection that can take you to heaven Christian heaven.
You have not told me how Mohammed fulfilled the Law of Moses as against the Paul the Apostles who taught men not obey the law according to you.
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 19, 2012
“Islam classifies absolutely everything and I think you misunderstand. “
If you think I misunderstand what the Quran says on the hate verses do you also think I misunderstand the examples set by Mohammed in the hadiths?
The Islamic raids, the assassination of the perceived enemies, the tortures, the murder, the rapes of women, the slave trade etc as graphically stated in your scriptures? What of the practice of Islam in the present Islamic nations, the terrorisms, the women oppreseeion, honour killings, Flag burning, Embassy bombings, train bombing, plane hijackings as Islamic legacies.
Are you saying that all these your Islamic brothers also misunderstand the hate verses like me?
You said “Think about this. I can marry a Christian/Jewish woman and she can retain her religion throught the marriage without any compulsion. Yet you think I cannot befriend any non Muslims?? That does not make any sense!!!”
What is the use of woman in Islam?
For breeding and banging, which you can change any day any time.
Is there any obligation on the man’s part to love the wife and keep her until death do you part? Definitely no.
Why does Islam not allow Christians to also marry Muslim women? It is only men to marry Christian’s women but not women to be given,out what a double stand?
Does that make any sense to you?
You have the freedom to quote this as an example making friends with Christians?
I thought you have a better brain than M&P
If you think I misunderstand what the Quran says on the hate verses do you also think I misunderstand the examples set by Mohammed in the hadiths?
The Islamic raids, the assassination of the perceived enemies, the tortures, the murder, the rapes of women, the slave trade etc as graphically stated in your scriptures? What of the practice of Islam in the present Islamic nations, the terrorisms, the women oppreseeion, honour killings, Flag burning, Embassy bombings, train bombing, plane hijackings as Islamic legacies.
Are you saying that all these your Islamic brothers also misunderstand the hate verses like me?
You said “Think about this. I can marry a Christian/Jewish woman and she can retain her religion throught the marriage without any compulsion. Yet you think I cannot befriend any non Muslims?? That does not make any sense!!!”
What is the use of woman in Islam?
For breeding and banging, which you can change any day any time.
Is there any obligation on the man’s part to love the wife and keep her until death do you part? Definitely no.
Why does Islam not allow Christians to also marry Muslim women? It is only men to marry Christian’s women but not women to be given,out what a double stand?
Does that make any sense to you?
You have the freedom to quote this as an example making friends with Christians?
I thought you have a better brain than M&P
written by Muslim and proud , March 19, 2012
Your ignorance is so obvious with satements like:
"Is there any obligation on the man’s part to love the wife and keep her until death do you part? Definitely no."
You ask a question and then also provide your own biased answer...
I have a question for you Mr Pasta:
Why do you pray to 3 Gods?
"Is there any obligation on the man’s part to love the wife and keep her until death do you part? Definitely no."
You ask a question and then also provide your own biased answer...
I have a question for you Mr Pasta:
Why do you pray to 3 Gods?
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 19, 2012
You appear to be everywhere but without making any sense to me.
I want to engange people who have something to defend or offer for discussion and not people like you. I think I am done with you.
If you want to help your brother answer my questions, you are welcome.
You can suit yourself
I want to engange people who have something to defend or offer for discussion and not people like you. I think I am done with you.
If you want to help your brother answer my questions, you are welcome.
You can suit yourself
written by rzq , March 19, 2012
Slow down. You are carpet bombing me here with questions. Let's deal with one topic at a time. I'm reading the new testament and the writings, the names, the places are all alien to me. I'm then going back and cross referencing biblical scholars to see if I got the gist of what I read. It takes time fella.
As far as the conversation goes I've got to the second paragraph on march 17.
So I'm going to pick it up from there!!!!
Hope that's ok!!
As far as the conversation goes I've got to the second paragraph on march 17.
So I'm going to pick it up from there!!!!
Hope that's ok!!
written by Muslim and proud , March 19, 2012
"I want to engange people who have something to defend or offer for discussion and not people like you. I think I am done with you."
So you cannot answer why you pray to 3 Gods......I pretty much thought that was the case.
So you cannot answer why you pray to 3 Gods......I pretty much thought that was the case.
written by duh_swami , March 19, 2012
I'm reading the new testament and the writings, the names, the places are all alien to me.
Haha...This is great...A novice at biblical scripture trying to out knowledge someone who has studied it for years...If the novice is ever right, it is by sheer accident...
Haha...This is great...A novice at biblical scripture trying to out knowledge someone who has studied it for years...If the novice is ever right, it is by sheer accident...
written by Muslim and proud , March 19, 2012
".If the novice is ever right, it is by sheer accident..."
The same applies to you - that is why, despite spending years on here, you still ask basic questions about Islam. Either you are incapable of learning or you are simply ignorant, or both.....
Feel free to confirm.
Ps you must continue to post here - it is an order bickhead.
The same applies to you - that is why, despite spending years on here, you still ask basic questions about Islam. Either you are incapable of learning or you are simply ignorant, or both.....
Feel free to confirm.
Ps you must continue to post here - it is an order bickhead.
written by duh_swami , March 19, 2012
Birds in the sky drop more wisdom in one day, than a castigated Muslim who advocates murder and threats does in weeks of defecating twisted logic and fake religion...
written by Muslim and proud , March 19, 2012
You are a good dog for following the orde given to you.
You MUST continue to post - and provide a new public announcement at once - hurry up bickhead.
You MUST continue to post - and provide a new public announcement at once - hurry up bickhead.
written by lw1 , March 19, 2012
BBC 17 March,2012. Morocco Rally over rape-marry law
Several hundred women's right activists have demonstrated outside Morcco's parliament to demand the repeal of a law on sexual violence.
Morocco's penal code allows a rapist to marry a victim if she is a minor as a way of avoiding prosecution.
A 16 year old girl, Amina Filali, killed herself a week ago after being severely beaten during a forced marriage to her rapist.
The protesters held signs saying,'The law has killed Amina.'
Several hundred women's right activists have demonstrated outside Morcco's parliament to demand the repeal of a law on sexual violence.
Morocco's penal code allows a rapist to marry a victim if she is a minor as a way of avoiding prosecution.
A 16 year old girl, Amina Filali, killed herself a week ago after being severely beaten during a forced marriage to her rapist.
The protesters held signs saying,'The law has killed Amina.'
written by fineliving56 , March 19, 2012
I know ...
this story, in piratical was a heart breaking and unfair to no end ...
Sharia ...is so harsh .. to make a girl marry her rapist to save the family honor is behind sick and disgusting ... as we can see ...
it is never about Muslim women ... never .... it is, all about the Muslim man and his family ... his honor ... his money ... his lust ... his happiness .. his pride ...
Muslim women are *an after thought* ...* an edition to the endless Muslim man's comforts and wants * ...
even in the after life we get to be stuck waiting in line for them to finish with the little Huriyat
shame on them ... a young girl of 16 who never had a chance to live and enjoy life kills her self to escape ...
I guess death was better option then to have to relive the horror of sleeping with a rapist/husband until death ... she took a short cut .. I do not blame her
I would have done the same, at her age ...
but at my age now ... the outcome would have not been in favor of that rapist.
this story, in piratical was a heart breaking and unfair to no end ...
Sharia ...is so harsh .. to make a girl marry her rapist to save the family honor is behind sick and disgusting ... as we can see ...
it is never about Muslim women ... never .... it is, all about the Muslim man and his family ... his honor ... his money ... his lust ... his happiness .. his pride ...
Muslim women are *an after thought* ...* an edition to the endless Muslim man's comforts and wants * ...
even in the after life we get to be stuck waiting in line for them to finish with the little Huriyat
shame on them ... a young girl of 16 who never had a chance to live and enjoy life kills her self to escape ...
I guess death was better option then to have to relive the horror of sleeping with a rapist/husband until death ... she took a short cut .. I do not blame her
I would have done the same, at her age ...
but at my age now ... the outcome would have not been in favor of that rapist.
written by Muslim and proud , March 19, 2012
"Sharia ...is so harsh .. to make a girl marry her rapist to save the family honor is behind sick and disgusting ... as we can see ..."
Errm, since when is forced marriage permissible in Islam?
Errm, since when is forced marriage permissible in Islam?
written by duh_swami , March 19, 2012
The castigated Muslim who advocates murder and threat Muslim asks...Errm, since when is forced marriage permissible in Islam?
It all started with the child molester Mohammad...Did anyone ask Aisha if she 'wanted' to marry Mohammad? Did anyone inform her that her little body was going to get raped by a grown man?
Persian2English – Farshid Yazdani, a member of the Association for the Defense of Children’s Rights, has raised the flag on the increasing rate of the marriage of girls under the age of 10 in Iran. He stated that in 2009, 449 girls under the age of 10 were married off. The number increased to 716 cases in 2011.Yazdani added that the number of marriages for girls under 15 years of age has increased from 33,383 in 2006 to 35,931 in 2007, 37,996 in 2008, and 43,459 last year...
Just how many of those young girls went willingly...
It all started with the child molester Mohammad...Did anyone ask Aisha if she 'wanted' to marry Mohammad? Did anyone inform her that her little body was going to get raped by a grown man?
Persian2English – Farshid Yazdani, a member of the Association for the Defense of Children’s Rights, has raised the flag on the increasing rate of the marriage of girls under the age of 10 in Iran. He stated that in 2009, 449 girls under the age of 10 were married off. The number increased to 716 cases in 2011.Yazdani added that the number of marriages for girls under 15 years of age has increased from 33,383 in 2006 to 35,931 in 2007, 37,996 in 2008, and 43,459 last year...
Just how many of those young girls went willingly...
written by rzq , March 19, 2012
You get all that from Wikipedia.
I hate it, I love it, oh wait I hate it again, no I love it really.......
I hate it, I love it, oh wait I hate it again, no I love it really.......
written by fineliving56 , March 19, 2012
I would have been offended, if I actually believed in such non sense ... lol
irrational fear and superstition push people to think if someone put that next to a man's name he would be cursed or he is the demon ... or what ever ...
Besides ... the devil is supposedly a male ... if there is such a thing as ... Devilat . I would be happy meet her ... haha
That's the same with the Jinns and shetan, Muslims believe in ... it is absurdity rubbish ... there is no Jinn ... if there is, I should have seen some hints ... a shadow ... a voice ... But no I do not see anything ... just reality ...
it seems only the mental ill say they have seen jinn ... it is called * seeing things are not there,* that's means the person is sick mentally and he suffers from Schizophrenia
I know a women who thought she sow jinnes and they went after her in her house so she locked her self in her house reading Quran in loud voice .. chanting ... Allah did not hear her and did not save her from Allah's jinns ... so she end up in mental hospital and diagnosed with Schizophrenia. Her brain was fried with electricity for a week in the infected spots in her brain ... that helped ... she woke up with no short memory .. but she stopped seeing Jinns ... or 666 ... or Satan ...or their little kids ... :).
irrational fear and superstition push people to think if someone put that next to a man's name he would be cursed or he is the demon ... or what ever ...
Besides ... the devil is supposedly a male ... if there is such a thing as ... Devilat . I would be happy meet her ... haha
That's the same with the Jinns and shetan, Muslims believe in ... it is absurdity rubbish ... there is no Jinn ... if there is, I should have seen some hints ... a shadow ... a voice ... But no I do not see anything ... just reality ...
it seems only the mental ill say they have seen jinn ... it is called * seeing things are not there,* that's means the person is sick mentally and he suffers from Schizophrenia
I know a women who thought she sow jinnes and they went after her in her house so she locked her self in her house reading Quran in loud voice .. chanting ... Allah did not hear her and did not save her from Allah's jinns ... so she end up in mental hospital and diagnosed with Schizophrenia. Her brain was fried with electricity for a week in the infected spots in her brain ... that helped ... she woke up with no short memory .. but she stopped seeing Jinns ... or 666 ... or Satan ...or their little kids ... :).
written by Yibel , March 19, 2012
written by rzq , March 18, 2012
"Infact (sic) look up the words" Muwalat, Muawasat, Mudarat, and Muamalat:
OK, did that. Here's what I found:
Muwalat seems to involve maintaining continuity during "prayers", like performing
various acts of reciting various ritual mantras (such as Ruku, two Sajdah and
tashahhud) in continuous succession, and reciting the Zikr, etc. also in usual
succession. For example, if an undue interval occurs between different acts until it
becomes difficult to visualise that one is chanting, than the ritual mantra will be
void.
Muwalat is not "a spiritual relationship". It's just the ritual of reciting codified
mantras which don't count (give any mumbo jumbo points) if they aren't performed exactly according to the din/rules.
Mu`amalaat seems to involve more din/rules that deal with man's interaction with
creation in general in order to profit oneself - mainly with halal financial transactions.
But what is Muawasat??? and Mudarat??? And Ruku, Sajdah, tashahhud, and the Zikr???
As regards the people of the Book (i.e., the Jews and the Christians) who do not accept the Prophethood of "Prophet" Muhammad bin Abdullah (Allah and his angels pray to him and his progeny), they are commonly considered najis. They are called kuffar (pl.), and the entire body of a Kafir (sing.), including his hair and nails, and all liquid substances of his body, are najis. Najis things cannot be purified (made Pak), in contrast to things which are defiled only (mutanajis). An infidel i.e. a person who does not believe in Allah and His Oneness, is najis. The following ten things are essentially najis: Urine, Feces, Semen, Dead body, Blood,
Dog, Pig, KAFIR, Alcoholic liquors, and the sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat.
"Infact (sic) look up the words" Muwalat, Muawasat, Mudarat, and Muamalat:
OK, did that. Here's what I found:
Muwalat seems to involve maintaining continuity during "prayers", like performing
various acts of reciting various ritual mantras (such as Ruku, two Sajdah and
tashahhud) in continuous succession, and reciting the Zikr, etc. also in usual
succession. For example, if an undue interval occurs between different acts until it
becomes difficult to visualise that one is chanting, than the ritual mantra will be
void.
Muwalat is not "a spiritual relationship". It's just the ritual of reciting codified
mantras which don't count (give any mumbo jumbo points) if they aren't performed exactly according to the din/rules.
Mu`amalaat seems to involve more din/rules that deal with man's interaction with
creation in general in order to profit oneself - mainly with halal financial transactions.
But what is Muawasat??? and Mudarat??? And Ruku, Sajdah, tashahhud, and the Zikr???
As regards the people of the Book (i.e., the Jews and the Christians) who do not accept the Prophethood of "Prophet" Muhammad bin Abdullah (Allah and his angels pray to him and his progeny), they are commonly considered najis. They are called kuffar (pl.), and the entire body of a Kafir (sing.), including his hair and nails, and all liquid substances of his body, are najis. Najis things cannot be purified (made Pak), in contrast to things which are defiled only (mutanajis). An infidel i.e. a person who does not believe in Allah and His Oneness, is najis. The following ten things are essentially najis: Urine, Feces, Semen, Dead body, Blood,
Dog, Pig, KAFIR, Alcoholic liquors, and the sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat.
written by rzq , March 20, 2012
Wrong on everything!!! That takes some doing!
Let me help you in your research!
http://www.muftisays.com/blog/Seifeddine-M/2195_09-11-2011/surah-aal-'imran,-28.30.html
Any tafseer will give you the correct definitions!!
Let me help you in your research!
http://www.muftisays.com/blog/Seifeddine-M/2195_09-11-2011/surah-aal-'imran,-28.30.html
Any tafseer will give you the correct definitions!!
written by duh_swami , March 20, 2012
The only correct definition of Islam, is evil...No tafseer is needed...
written by Muslim and proud , March 20, 2012
"The only correct definition of Islam, is evil...No tafseer is needed..."
You are ordered to continue posting on here bickhead....you must continue to post if you are a coward - please also provide an update on the next train immediately
Lol - wait for it - Swami will post very soon
You are ordered to continue posting on here bickhead....you must continue to post if you are a coward - please also provide an update on the next train immediately
Lol - wait for it - Swami will post very soon
written by malem , March 20, 2012
Jinn are all around us, you just need to be open to seeing them. You need not be mentally ill, or anything such as that. While I have not seen them myself I do know people who have experienced them.
written by duh_swami , March 20, 2012
Jinn are all around us, you just need to be open to seeing them. You need not be mentally ill, or anything such as that. While I have not seen them myself...
I guess then sweet doctor (as yet unconfirmed) that you must not be open enough to see them...You just need to open yourself a little more...
Is that medical advice, to open yourself up to jinn/demons? That is witch doctor advice doctor...What kind of a doctor did you say you were?
I guess then sweet doctor (as yet unconfirmed) that you must not be open enough to see them...You just need to open yourself a little more...
Is that medical advice, to open yourself up to jinn/demons? That is witch doctor advice doctor...What kind of a doctor did you say you were?
written by fineliving56 , March 20, 2012
Slashes under lush trees ...
Stoning in holes in white sandy beaches ...
Beaten by husbands while sitting enjoying breath taking ocean view ...
Sharing husband with 3 other wives and all you can *grab* women slaves, in a cozy Villa, on looking picturesque scenarios.
Ahhh ... do you feel the LOVE and comfort shining through from sharia love paradise ?
Stoning in holes in white sandy beaches ...
Beaten by husbands while sitting enjoying breath taking ocean view ...
Sharing husband with 3 other wives and all you can *grab* women slaves, in a cozy Villa, on looking picturesque scenarios.
Ahhh ... do you feel the LOVE and comfort shining through from sharia love paradise ?
written by malem , March 20, 2012
There is no Shaira in the Quran, it was created by men after and has no place in the Quran. Also I am not aware of a villa occuring in any Sharia laws I have seen, is this a true statement or just another falshood?
written by fineliving56 , March 20, 2012
Yes ..
keep telling your self that ... maybe it will become true ....but meanwhile there is more of people who believe in Sharia then not, and we have to deal with the majority the knots..... the minority are like you ... so you do not count and your opinion is not important ... in fact some Muslims might call you an apostate and try to kill you
Malam do you understand the concept of fun related Sarcasm ? ... or Islam robbed you of that humanistic concept too?
Like it robbed you of understanding that sharing women is considered disgusting with the full knowledge of the two, three and four wives.
Quran sanctioned stacking 4 women in marriages just like sharia did ... and my [ paradise Sharia love] fun sarcasm dig was very clear ... I am surprised you missed that doctor!!
keep telling your self that ... maybe it will become true ....but meanwhile there is more of people who believe in Sharia then not, and we have to deal with the majority the knots..... the minority are like you ... so you do not count and your opinion is not important ... in fact some Muslims might call you an apostate and try to kill you
Malam do you understand the concept of fun related Sarcasm ? ... or Islam robbed you of that humanistic concept too?
Like it robbed you of understanding that sharing women is considered disgusting with the full knowledge of the two, three and four wives.
Quran sanctioned stacking 4 women in marriages just like sharia did ... and my [ paradise Sharia love] fun sarcasm dig was very clear ... I am surprised you missed that doctor!!
written by Muslim and proud , March 20, 2012
"Quran sanctioned stacking 4 women in marriages just like sharia did"
There is no such "sanction" - maybe you are losing your marbles in your old age. Just because something is permissible, does notake it a "sanction" - I'm not surpassed you left Islam - many kafir have a better understanding of Islam than you do......
There is no such "sanction" - maybe you are losing your marbles in your old age. Just because something is permissible, does notake it a "sanction" - I'm not surpassed you left Islam - many kafir have a better understanding of Islam than you do......
written by Fineliving56 , March 20, 2012
I choose the word sanctions because stacking 4 wives is disgusting to me like it should be to all humans who consider themselves , GOOD .
Permissible or sanctioned or allowed .. the word does not matter ... Muslim men can CHOOSE what ever word that make them sleep better at night ... and make them feel good playing musical beds ... their wives beds .
IT IS STILL WRONG, DISGUSTING AND SICK ... just like the disgusting Muhammad and his creation Quran.
Permissible or sanctioned or allowed .. the word does not matter ... Muslim men can CHOOSE what ever word that make them sleep better at night ... and make them feel good playing musical beds ... their wives beds .
IT IS STILL WRONG, DISGUSTING AND SICK ... just like the disgusting Muhammad and his creation Quran.
written by Muslim & Proud , March 20, 2012
"IT IS STILL WRONG, DISGUSTING AND SICK ... just like the disgusting Muhammad and his creation Quran."
Yawns
Have you got anything else to say?
You are in the habit of repeating the same thing over and over again......again.....again. Have you been doing this since you became a kafir? Is there something missing in your life?
Your situation remains sad & pathetic......
Yawns
Have you got anything else to say?
You are in the habit of repeating the same thing over and over again......again.....again. Have you been doing this since you became a kafir? Is there something missing in your life?
Your situation remains sad & pathetic......
written by duh_swami , March 20, 2012
Castigated Muslims who advocate murder and threat, are demon possessed and will be pummeled hard by the possessing demon Allah...
written by Muslim and proud , March 20, 2012
"Castigated Muslims who advocate murder and threat, are demon possessed and will be pummeled hard"
You are doing very well bickhead - try not to let the frustration show and continue with what you are doing - that's an order from a Muslim
Good dog
You are doing very well bickhead - try not to let the frustration show and continue with what you are doing - that's an order from a Muslim
Good dog
written by fineliving56 , March 20, 2012
I might be not that good in explaining Quran/Sharia in English ... But al least I understand it perfectly in the language [ Arabic] that IT came with ... SUPPOSEDLY ..
I LIKE TO SEE MUSLIMS HERE TRY TO EXPLAIN QURAN IN ARABIC WITHOUT SOUNDING AND LOOKING LIKE IDIOTS ...
I have read some samples of there Arabic ... haha
I LIKE TO SEE MUSLIMS HERE TRY TO EXPLAIN QURAN IN ARABIC WITHOUT SOUNDING AND LOOKING LIKE IDIOTS ...
I have read some samples of there Arabic ... haha
written by Muslim and proud , March 20, 2012
"I LIKE TO SEE MUSLIMS HERE TRY TO EXPLAIN QURAN IN ARABIC"
Hang on a minute grandma - you want to leave Islam again.....again.....again
But you still LIKE to see Muslims trying to explain the Holy Qur'an?
Uh oh - I think it's that time again - when you have made a fool of yourself
Well done
Hang on a minute grandma - you want to leave Islam again.....again.....again
But you still LIKE to see Muslims trying to explain the Holy Qur'an?
Uh oh - I think it's that time again - when you have made a fool of yourself
Well done
written by Mozlems , March 20, 2012
Doctor who quacks AKA the quack doctor..
Jinns sprouting from ArsZ specially after spicy dinner...
Jinns sprouting from ArsZ specially after spicy dinner...
written by malem , March 20, 2012
So mozlem thinks jinns appear from ones backside? What does that have to do with the discussion at hand?
written by Muslim and proud , March 20, 2012
Salaam Bro
I think he has a fascination with backsides and jinns - very strange indeed.
I think he has a fascination with backsides and jinns - very strange indeed.
written by Mozlems , March 20, 2012
What is Jinn ?
Qur'an mentions that Jinn are made of smokeless flame or "scorching fire".
Now if you both light your farts irrespective of from back side or mouth you will see a Jinn.
Cause Malman is a doctor he can better explain the origin.
No I dont indulge in Bacc*aB*zi so not interested in your gapes AKA bacsides. Moron has first hand experience as someone has identified him as a Afgan refugee in Yorkshire.
Qur'an mentions that Jinn are made of smokeless flame or "scorching fire".
Now if you both light your farts irrespective of from back side or mouth you will see a Jinn.
Cause Malman is a doctor he can better explain the origin.
No I dont indulge in Bacc*aB*zi so not interested in your gapes AKA bacsides. Moron has first hand experience as someone has identified him as a Afgan refugee in Yorkshire.
written by Yibel , March 21, 2012
written by malem , March 20, 2012
"Jinn are all around us, you just need to be open to seeing them. You need not be mentally ill, or anything such as that. While I have not seen them myself I do know people who have experienced them. "
How do you know that these being called "jinn" are all around us when you say you have never seen them? You say that some people have experienced them, but how do you know that they are right? How do they know it was jinn they experienced? Maybe it was their minds playing tricks on them, or maybe they were mentelly ill. Due to the lack of knowledge of mental illnesses and other mental health problems, many undereducated communities have diagnosed mentally ill people with jinn possession, even people who suffer from seizures. Uneducated and primitive people also blame the jinn for unfortunate events that may occur in their lives.
The origin of the jinn is rooted in pre-Islamic Arab societies, even prior to the arrival of Judaism and Christianity in the Arab peninsula. Pagan Arabs would refer to jinn as demon-like creatures, considering them to be lower in ranking than angels, or even lesser deities. Here's some Arab mythology about the jinn:
Islamic scholar Ibn Abd al Barr said the jinn have several names and are of various types. In general, they are called jinn; a jinn who lives among people (a haunter or dweller) is called Aamir, and if it is the type of jinn that attaches itself to a child it is called Arwaah. An evil jinn is often called Shaytaan (devil), when they are more than evil, demonic, they are called Maarid, and the most evil and strong jinn are called Ifreet (plural afaareet). In the traditions of Prophet Muhammad the jinn are divided into three classes; those who have wings and fly in the air, those who resemble snakes and dogs, and those who travel about endlessly.
Muhammad was reported to further categorize the jinn into three categories: those that have wings; those that are similar to snakes and dogs; and those who travel ceaselessly.
Why is it that only the Arabs ever experienced these jinn before the spread of Islam? No other group of people make mention of jinn in their mythology. Only the Arabs! Curiouser and Curiouser!!
"Jinn are all around us, you just need to be open to seeing them. You need not be mentally ill, or anything such as that. While I have not seen them myself I do know people who have experienced them. "
How do you know that these being called "jinn" are all around us when you say you have never seen them? You say that some people have experienced them, but how do you know that they are right? How do they know it was jinn they experienced? Maybe it was their minds playing tricks on them, or maybe they were mentelly ill. Due to the lack of knowledge of mental illnesses and other mental health problems, many undereducated communities have diagnosed mentally ill people with jinn possession, even people who suffer from seizures. Uneducated and primitive people also blame the jinn for unfortunate events that may occur in their lives.
The origin of the jinn is rooted in pre-Islamic Arab societies, even prior to the arrival of Judaism and Christianity in the Arab peninsula. Pagan Arabs would refer to jinn as demon-like creatures, considering them to be lower in ranking than angels, or even lesser deities. Here's some Arab mythology about the jinn:
Islamic scholar Ibn Abd al Barr said the jinn have several names and are of various types. In general, they are called jinn; a jinn who lives among people (a haunter or dweller) is called Aamir, and if it is the type of jinn that attaches itself to a child it is called Arwaah. An evil jinn is often called Shaytaan (devil), when they are more than evil, demonic, they are called Maarid, and the most evil and strong jinn are called Ifreet (plural afaareet). In the traditions of Prophet Muhammad the jinn are divided into three classes; those who have wings and fly in the air, those who resemble snakes and dogs, and those who travel about endlessly.
Muhammad was reported to further categorize the jinn into three categories: those that have wings; those that are similar to snakes and dogs; and those who travel ceaselessly.
Why is it that only the Arabs ever experienced these jinn before the spread of Islam? No other group of people make mention of jinn in their mythology. Only the Arabs! Curiouser and Curiouser!!
written by bundypig , March 21, 2012
muhammud under the guise of allah say that shooting stars were created by hin for killing jinns? And didn't Jeannie have a jinn friend when she was in the Major's bottle? Maybe these are the jinns malman's friends see, ones at the bottom of a bottle (of Scotch)
written by Yibel , March 21, 2012
Yes, bundypig, Muhammad's little tin god created shooting stars to chase the jinn out of heaven so they couldn't hear the heavenly conversations. Qur'an 72 Al-Jinn
8. We (the jinn) had sought the heaven but had found it filled with strong warders and meteors.
9. We sat on places (high) therein to listen/eavesdrop. But eavesdroppers now find a flame/shooting stars in wait for them;
10. We know not whether this bodes evil unto all who dwell on earth, or whether their Lord intends to guide them.
Al-Jinn is the 40th surrah chronologically and was revealed in Makkah to the
superstitious pagan Arabs telling them that some of the jinn, the "good" ones of course, had become Muslims:
13. And when we (the Jinn) heard the guidance, we believed therein, and whoso believeth in his Lord, he feareth neither loss nor oppression.
14. And there are among us some who have surrendered (to Allah) and there are among us some who are unjust. And whoso hath surrendered to Allah, such have taken the right path purposefully.
15. And as for those who are unjust, they are firewood for hell.
16. If they (the idolaters) tread the right path, We (Muhammad's god) shall give them to drink of water in abundance
17. That We may test them thereby, and whoso turneth away from the remembrance of his Lord; He will thrust him into ever growing torment.
18. And the places of worship are only for Allah, so pray not unto anyone along with Allah.
19. And when the slave of Allah (here Muhammad is refering to himself) stood up in prayer to Him, they crowded on him, almost stifling.'
Note: Genii is the English way of spelling jinn. The famous collection "One Thousand and One Nights" led to the introduction of the mythology of the jinn into Western pop culture, referring to them as “genies,” and TV and the movies have played their part in depicting genies as playful creatures able to fulfill all of man’s wishes. The genie in the television series “I Dream of Jeanie” was a young woman who always managed to create playful mischief, and in Disney animated film, Aladdin, the genie was depicted as a loveable rouge. However, the pre-Islamic Arabs believed in them and considered them to be evil, and therefore, Muhammad was a great prophet with the best message because he converted some of the jinn.
8. We (the jinn) had sought the heaven but had found it filled with strong warders and meteors.
9. We sat on places (high) therein to listen/eavesdrop. But eavesdroppers now find a flame/shooting stars in wait for them;
10. We know not whether this bodes evil unto all who dwell on earth, or whether their Lord intends to guide them.
Al-Jinn is the 40th surrah chronologically and was revealed in Makkah to the
superstitious pagan Arabs telling them that some of the jinn, the "good" ones of course, had become Muslims:
13. And when we (the Jinn) heard the guidance, we believed therein, and whoso believeth in his Lord, he feareth neither loss nor oppression.
14. And there are among us some who have surrendered (to Allah) and there are among us some who are unjust. And whoso hath surrendered to Allah, such have taken the right path purposefully.
15. And as for those who are unjust, they are firewood for hell.
16. If they (the idolaters) tread the right path, We (Muhammad's god) shall give them to drink of water in abundance
17. That We may test them thereby, and whoso turneth away from the remembrance of his Lord; He will thrust him into ever growing torment.
18. And the places of worship are only for Allah, so pray not unto anyone along with Allah.
19. And when the slave of Allah (here Muhammad is refering to himself) stood up in prayer to Him, they crowded on him, almost stifling.'
Note: Genii is the English way of spelling jinn. The famous collection "One Thousand and One Nights" led to the introduction of the mythology of the jinn into Western pop culture, referring to them as “genies,” and TV and the movies have played their part in depicting genies as playful creatures able to fulfill all of man’s wishes. The genie in the television series “I Dream of Jeanie” was a young woman who always managed to create playful mischief, and in Disney animated film, Aladdin, the genie was depicted as a loveable rouge. However, the pre-Islamic Arabs believed in them and considered them to be evil, and therefore, Muhammad was a great prophet with the best message because he converted some of the jinn.
written by Mozlems , March 21, 2012
Sunaan Abu Dawud, Book 1, Number 0006:
Narrated Zayd ibn Arqam:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: These privies are frequented by the jinns and devils. So when anyone amongst you goes there, he should say: "I seek refuge in Allah from male and female devils."
Since jinns and devils visit Islamic toilets, Muhammad instructed his followers to offer prayer when entering a lavatory. We have already read a hadis on this. Here are a few more.
Pray when answering the call of nature…(Sahih Bukhari, 1.4.144)
When you enter a lavatory say, “O Allah, I seek refuge in Thee from wicked and noxious things.”… (Sahih Muslim, 3.0729)
When entering a toilet, say a prayer: O’ Allah I seek refuge with you from all offensive and wicked things (evil deeds and evil spirits)… (Sunaan Nasai, 1.19)
To screen you from jinns, when visiting toilet say Bismillah… (Sunaan Tirmidhi, 130)
It is likely that Malman and Moron forgot to say bismillah and finding the nearest open orfice the Jinn/s entered.
This is why Malman beleives in Jinns. Maybe he has some in his house in toilet who also haunt his wives.
Here is the potty training primer againhttp://islam-watch.org/AbulKas...Part14.htm
Narrated Zayd ibn Arqam:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: These privies are frequented by the jinns and devils. So when anyone amongst you goes there, he should say: "I seek refuge in Allah from male and female devils."
Since jinns and devils visit Islamic toilets, Muhammad instructed his followers to offer prayer when entering a lavatory. We have already read a hadis on this. Here are a few more.
Pray when answering the call of nature…(Sahih Bukhari, 1.4.144)
When you enter a lavatory say, “O Allah, I seek refuge in Thee from wicked and noxious things.”… (Sahih Muslim, 3.0729)
When entering a toilet, say a prayer: O’ Allah I seek refuge with you from all offensive and wicked things (evil deeds and evil spirits)… (Sunaan Nasai, 1.19)
To screen you from jinns, when visiting toilet say Bismillah… (Sunaan Tirmidhi, 130)
It is likely that Malman and Moron forgot to say bismillah and finding the nearest open orfice the Jinn/s entered.
This is why Malman beleives in Jinns. Maybe he has some in his house in toilet who also haunt his wives.
Here is the potty training primer againhttp://islam-watch.org/AbulKas...Part14.htm
written by bundypig , March 21, 2012
happened to me on the way to the mosque...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VHs9m5IUDE
ta da
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VHs9m5IUDE
ta da
written by bundypig , March 21, 2012
if it's incorrect that allah created shooting stars (which are meteorites by the way malman, and not stars at all) then that means that the koran in sura 72, is total bs and leaves way for a lot more crap? Like the copying of Hippocrates theory that sperm is created in the spine et al?
written by bundypig , March 21, 2012
in effect, the koran is false teachings and not perfect as preached and that mu$lims are being fooled the world over?
written by Malem , March 22, 2012
Your verbal diarrhea with personal attacks does nothing other than make you look bad. I realize sometimes it is tough to act in an adult manner and might be beyond your ability, I do not know as I don’t know you from a rock in the road. What I do know is you have a tremendous lack of knowledge of Islam other than some silly propaganda that has been falsely created and regurgitated over and over by people such as yourself. Good luck with that, I hope it works for you.
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"One reason is that, in explaining someone else's views, we have a chance to oversimplify and even falsify them."
Then he begins his actual writing with the following:
"Islam perpetual rise came from the thinking of an ignorant Arab, whose learning and adherence were based on the Jewish and Christian beliefs, myths and scriptures"
Absolutely classic!!!!
How do you straw man Lenny??!!!