Allah said Muhammad was sent for guiding people to Islam; He also said, Muhammad was not to guide.
The purpose of this article is to analyze the role of Muhammad according to Allah. Allah, the God of Islam, loved Muhammad and gave validity to his every action – savage or morally repulsive. The Quran is full of incidents where kafirs posed questions to Muhammad and Allah rushed to his rescue with ‘holy verses’. So, it would be interesting to note how Allah himself viewed the role of Muhammad as a guide to humanity.
So, let us begin with Surah Al-Baqarah:
Quran 2.272:
Yusuf Ali: It is not required of thee (O Messenger), to set them on the right path, but Allah sets on the right path whom He pleaseth. Whatever of good ye give benefits your own souls, and ye shall only do so seeking the "Face" of Allah. Whatever good ye give, shall be rendered back to you, and ye shall not Be dealt with unjustly.
Pickthall: The guiding of them is not thy duty (O Muhammad), but Allah guideth whom He will. And whatsoever good thing ye spend, it is for yourselves, when ye spend not save in search of Allah's Countenance; and whatsoever good thing ye spend, it will be repaid to you in full, and ye will not be wronged.
Shakir: To make them walk in the right way is not incumbent on you, but Allah guides aright whom He pleases; and whatever good thing you spend, it is to your own good; and you do not spend but to seek Allah's pleasure; and whatever good things you spend shall be paid back to you in full, and you shall not be wronged.
Here, we read a recurrent theme of the Quran: “Allah guides whom he pleases and leaves astray whom he pleases”. But of note is the beginning of this ayat: “The guiding of them is not thy duty (O Muhammad)”. This means that guiding people to the ‘right’ (read wrong) path is not required of Muhammad, because Allah is taking care of that. One thing must be kept in mind that this is the opinion of Allah himself.
Now let us read 13:7:
Quran 13.7:
YUSUF ALI: And the Unbelievers say: "Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?" But thou art truly a warner, and to every people a guide.
PICKTHALL: Those who disbelieve say: If only some portent were sent down upon him from his Lord! Thou art a warner only, and for every folk a guide.
SHAKIR: And those who disbelieve say: Why has not a sign been sent down upon him from his Lord? You are only a warner and (there is) a guide for every people.
Whenever the kafirs asked Muhammad difficult questions, Allah rushed in with an answer.
But wait! What do we read here? Here Allah states that “Muhammad is a guide to EVERY people”. It is not hard to conclude that 2:272 and 13:7 contradicts. It seems that Islam’s Allah, the so-called creator of everything, including confusion, is himself confused about the role of Muhammad as a guide to humankind.
As Muslims start fuming like a chimney, let us quickly move on to another ‘clear’ verse:
Quran 28.56:
YUSUF ALI: It is true thou wilt not be able to guide every one, whom thou lovest; but Allah guides those whom He will and He knows best those who receive guidance.
PICKTHALL: Lo! thou (O Muhammad) guidest not whom thou lovest, but Allah guideth whom He will. And He is Best Aware of those who walk aright.
SHAKIR: Surely you cannot guide whom you love, but Allah guides whom He pleases, and He knows best the followers of the right way.
Note how the translation of Ali contradicts that of Shakir and Pickthall. A miracle indeed!
If Yusuf Ali is correct, then 28:56 is similar to 13:7, while if Shakir is correct then 28:56 reaffirms 2:272. Whatever the case, the contradiction still persists.
That guiding people to Islam is indeed a duty of Muhammad is clear from various verses of the Quran:
Quran 32.3:
YUSUF ALI: Or do they say, "He has forged it"? Nay, it is the Truth from thy Lord, that thou mayest admonish a people to whom no warner has come before thee: in order that they may receive guidance.
PICKTHALL: Or say theYusuf Ali: He hath invented it? Nay, but it is the Truth from thy Lord, that thou mayst warn a folk to whom no warner came before thee, that haply they may walk aright.
Shakir: Or do they say: He has forged it? Nay! it is the truth from your Lord that you may warn a people to whom no warner has come before you, that they may follow the right direction.
Quran 62.2:
Yusuf Ali: It is He Who has sent amongst the Unlettered a messenger from among themselves, to rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom,- although they had been, before, in manifest error;-
Pickthall: He it is Who hath sent among the unlettered ones a messenger of their own, to recite unto them His revelations and to make them grow, and to teach them the Scripture and wisdom, though heretofore they were indeed in error manifest,
Shakir: He it is Who raised among the inhabitants of Mecca a Messenger from among themselves, who recites to them His communications and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and the Wisdom, although they were before certainly in clear error,
Quran 65.11:
Yusuf Ali: A Messenger, who rehearses to you the Signs of Allah containing clear explanations, that he may lead forth those who believe and do righteous deeds from the depths of Darkness into Light. And those who believe in Allah and work righteousness, He will admit to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein for ever: Allah has indeed granted for them a most excellent Provision.
PICKTHALL: A messenger reciting unto you the revelations of Allah made plain, that He may bring forth those who believe and do good works from darkness unto light. And whosoever believeth in Allah and doeth right, He will bring him into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, therein to abide for ever. Allah hath made good provision for him.
SHAKIR: A Messenger who recites to you the clear communications of Allah so that he may bring forth those who believe and do good deeds from darkness into light; and whoever believes in Allah and does good deeds, He will cause him to enter gardens beneath which rivers now, to abide therein forever, Allah has indeed given him a goodly sustenance.
From these verses, it is amply clear that role assigned to Muhammad by Allah is indeed that of a guide. Indeed, all the prophets including Muhammad were nothing but guide to people:
Quran 32.24
YUSUF ALI: And We appointed, from among them, leaders, giving guidance under Our command, so long as they persevered with patience and continued to have faith in Our Signs.
PICKTHALL: And when they became steadfast and believed firmly in Our revelations, We appointed from among them leaders who guided by Our command.
SHAKIR: And We made of them Imams to guide by Our command when they were patient, and they were certain of Our communications.
In conclusion, I must say that it is amazing to note how Allah manages to make a fool of Himself at every opportunity.
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written by Beowulf , March 05, 2012
Well done. Islam is a totally irrational ideology. Its internal contradictions are source for part of the irrationality.
written by duh_swami , March 06, 2012
Quran 2.272: as shown is nothing more than a disclaimer and obfuscation on Mohammad's part...What he is saying is, 'don't blame me for not guiding correctly, that's not my job it's Allah's...'if you are mislead, it's Allah's fault not mine'...'So if you are in trouble, blame him not me'...I thought it was haram and a sin to 'blame' Allah for anything...That's a form of apostasy...Was Mohammad Islams first apostate?
written by Clement-Islam-Watch Pastor , March 06, 2012
Thank you very much author, I am wondering why there should be any contradiction at all in the Quran considering the fact that it is a book of one author, one prophet, one Angel, one Allah a product of one tribe the Arabs all located in nation Saudi Arabia, one town Mecca, one house Kaaba, One idol the Black stone all within 23 years revelation.
One will understand if it is the Bible that this apparent contradictions are noticed because the has 66 books, 40 authors, written in three languages, with many prophets, Kings, and rulers and Angels and messengers which spans over 2500 years in writing.
But this little book with only 114 chapters, a book that is just about the size of the book of Psalms in the Bible yet without intelligent transmission, chronology, full of errors and contractions. How came that such a book is being passed as a divine instructions to all humanity?
This is a great fraud.
One will understand if it is the Bible that this apparent contradictions are noticed because the has 66 books, 40 authors, written in three languages, with many prophets, Kings, and rulers and Angels and messengers which spans over 2500 years in writing.
But this little book with only 114 chapters, a book that is just about the size of the book of Psalms in the Bible yet without intelligent transmission, chronology, full of errors and contractions. How came that such a book is being passed as a divine instructions to all humanity?
This is a great fraud.
written by Malem , March 06, 2012
Clement, your title asks for clarification on an error but I see none listed in your statements? Yes the Holy Quran has one author, Allah. The bible has many and even so does not contain all the books written, many were left out like the ones contained in the Gnostic writings. So when Allah sent his last messenger, he provided him divine messaging directly through an angel. One might conclude that Allah was not entirely happy with the original writings that men had tampered with so he provided a pure version.
As for the Surah verse on Guidance, there are two types of guidance discussed in the Holy Quran. Guidance of the Heart (only Allah gives guidance in the heart) and Guidance of the Proof of the Message of the Holy Quran (i.e. the messengers give the message and explain it that leads to the guidance that Allah puts in their hearts), subtle differences in these messages. The one line Duh plucks out has to do with Guidance of the Heart from Allah. You need to understand the role of the Prophet (Messenger) and the role of Allah before you can understand. If you would like soem websites than can help you in this effort please let me know.
As for the Surah verse on Guidance, there are two types of guidance discussed in the Holy Quran. Guidance of the Heart (only Allah gives guidance in the heart) and Guidance of the Proof of the Message of the Holy Quran (i.e. the messengers give the message and explain it that leads to the guidance that Allah puts in their hearts), subtle differences in these messages. The one line Duh plucks out has to do with Guidance of the Heart from Allah. You need to understand the role of the Prophet (Messenger) and the role of Allah before you can understand. If you would like soem websites than can help you in this effort please let me know.
written by duh_swami , March 06, 2012
Yes the Holy Quran has one author, Allah.
Supernatural beliefs Doctor? Just like in the Bible, God never said anything, Allah never authored anything...Everything in the way of scripture is authored by men...No disembodied god, angel, demon, jinn, spook, spirit, knew how to write or speak in Arabic...It is a well known fact that these entities speak ebonics...There was a time when when God disguised as a finger wrote some stuff on a wall for Moses to read, but it was not in Arabic...
I'm sorry, the Quran is all about Allah, but it was not authored by him...
Supernatural beliefs Doctor? Just like in the Bible, God never said anything, Allah never authored anything...Everything in the way of scripture is authored by men...No disembodied god, angel, demon, jinn, spook, spirit, knew how to write or speak in Arabic...It is a well known fact that these entities speak ebonics...There was a time when when God disguised as a finger wrote some stuff on a wall for Moses to read, but it was not in Arabic...
I'm sorry, the Quran is all about Allah, but it was not authored by him...
written by Clement-Islam-Watch Pastor , March 06, 2012
Malem
This article under consideration outlined some apparent contradictions; Don't you think you need to clarify these few verses before going for your guardian principles?
"You need to understand the role of the Prophet (Messenger) and the role of Allah before you can understand."
What of if Allah, the prophet, and the Angel are the same person masquerading as different persons?
In the case of the Quran when you read it between lines you fine Mohammed speaking clearly but you still believe it was Allah or Angel Gabriel that was speaking. Do you want me to sight example? How can one get a correct guidance in this instance?
This article under consideration outlined some apparent contradictions; Don't you think you need to clarify these few verses before going for your guardian principles?
"You need to understand the role of the Prophet (Messenger) and the role of Allah before you can understand."
What of if Allah, the prophet, and the Angel are the same person masquerading as different persons?
In the case of the Quran when you read it between lines you fine Mohammed speaking clearly but you still believe it was Allah or Angel Gabriel that was speaking. Do you want me to sight example? How can one get a correct guidance in this instance?
written by Editor, M A Khan , March 06, 2012
One might conclude that Allah was not entirely happy with the original writings that men had tampered with so he provided a pure version.Just like we humans err -- improve through trials and errors. How omnipotent, all-knowing and all-perfect this a*****e Islamic Allah is!
written by Muslim and proud , March 06, 2012
Namaste Mr Krishna,
You should maybe focus on the Vedas?
With regards to your article, It is so simple to refute that even a 10 year old Muslim can do it.
I will provide a detailed refutation later....for now, you can concentrate on the following:
1 - Allah (the exalted) revealed the Holy Qur'an to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
2 - Angel Gibrail (as) revealed the Holy Qur'an to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
Both statements are true and not a contradiction, however it was the will of Allah (the exalted), without which, Angel Gibrail (as) could not have done anything.
1 - Allah (the exalted) is the ultimate guide and guides whomsoever he wills - based on his own will and decision.
2 - Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the guide to those whom Allah (the exalted) has chosen to guide.
The ultimate "will" and "decision" remains with Allah (the exalted).
It is a shame you have made a fool of yourself.
You should maybe focus on the Vedas?
With regards to your article, It is so simple to refute that even a 10 year old Muslim can do it.
I will provide a detailed refutation later....for now, you can concentrate on the following:
1 - Allah (the exalted) revealed the Holy Qur'an to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
2 - Angel Gibrail (as) revealed the Holy Qur'an to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
Both statements are true and not a contradiction, however it was the will of Allah (the exalted), without which, Angel Gibrail (as) could not have done anything.
1 - Allah (the exalted) is the ultimate guide and guides whomsoever he wills - based on his own will and decision.
2 - Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the guide to those whom Allah (the exalted) has chosen to guide.
The ultimate "will" and "decision" remains with Allah (the exalted).
It is a shame you have made a fool of yourself.
written by Muslim and proud , March 06, 2012
The Queen approves all laws in England
The parliament approves all laws in England
Both statements are true and not contradictory
However
When context is applied, you will find that the Queen is the FINAL approver.
It's no surprise to see that Mr Krishna is totally oblivious to any context.
The parliament approves all laws in England
Both statements are true and not contradictory
However
When context is applied, you will find that the Queen is the FINAL approver.
It's no surprise to see that Mr Krishna is totally oblivious to any context.
written by Clement-Islam-Watch Pastor , March 06, 2012
"There was a time when when God disguised as a finger wrote some stuff on a wall for Moses to read, but it was not in Arabic... "
Yes you are right in the whole of the Bible it was only in the writing of the Ten commandment that God write directly on the Tahblet stone but for the rest of books it was by inspiration of fhe Spirit that the holy men of God were moved to write not recite as in the case of Quran.
The Quran was a recital not a book through out the period of Mohammed ministry which lasted for 23 years.
Which one is more credible a written document right from the horses mouth or recital which is capable of vanishing from the memorry in some seconds?
Can you see why there are so much contradictions in the Quran? Extradicting information from the old and dying men of Mohammed was not an easy task.
Yes you are right in the whole of the Bible it was only in the writing of the Ten commandment that God write directly on the Tahblet stone but for the rest of books it was by inspiration of fhe Spirit that the holy men of God were moved to write not recite as in the case of Quran.
The Quran was a recital not a book through out the period of Mohammed ministry which lasted for 23 years.
Which one is more credible a written document right from the horses mouth or recital which is capable of vanishing from the memorry in some seconds?
Can you see why there are so much contradictions in the Quran? Extradicting information from the old and dying men of Mohammed was not an easy task.
written by duh_swami , March 06, 2012
With regards to your article, It is so simple to refute that even a 10 year old Muslim can do it.
I thought you were a little older than that...Twelve maybe...But you are right, your explanations are on the ten year old level...
I thought you were a little older than that...Twelve maybe...But you are right, your explanations are on the ten year old level...
written by Muslim and proud , March 06, 2012
Typical
Instead of responding with something meaningful, people like Duh prefer to ARF ARF!!!
Instead of responding with something meaningful, people like Duh prefer to ARF ARF!!!
written by Mozambique , March 06, 2012
Typical
Instead of respnding with something meaningful, people like M&P prefer to ARF ARF!!!
Instead of respnding with something meaningful, people like M&P prefer to ARF ARF!!!
written by Muslim and proud , March 06, 2012
You need to keep up o cursed one. Swami has admitted that he is a kuffar dog who goes ARF ARF. It would be wring for me to call him anything else you fool. Try and focus muppet.
written by Muslim and proud , March 06, 2012
I notice you have absolutely diddly squat to say about the topic in hand - now why does that not surprise me.....
written by duh_swami , March 06, 2012
You need to keep up o cursed one. Swami has admitted that he is a kuffar dog who goes ARF ARF.
You have irresistible urges to act foolish... say foolish things, and you too believe in fairy tales...You are not yet ready for prime time sweets...When you are ready for prime time, I will speak to you as a sweet adult rather than a cute but annoying child...
You have irresistible urges to act foolish... say foolish things, and you too believe in fairy tales...You are not yet ready for prime time sweets...When you are ready for prime time, I will speak to you as a sweet adult rather than a cute but annoying child...
written by Cliff Notes , March 06, 2012
Typical Islamic Pig
Instead of respnding with something meaningful, people like M&P prefer to ARF ARF!!!
You left off the B!!! Allah's magic word with which he creates everything. It's like Abbra Qadabra, only better!
M&P prefers to BARF BARF!!!
Instead of respnding with something meaningful, people like M&P prefer to ARF ARF!!!
You left off the B!!! Allah's magic word with which he creates everything. It's like Abbra Qadabra, only better!
M&P prefers to BARF BARF!!!
written by Mozambique , March 06, 2012
Keep barking M&P you little islamic pig..nobody takes you seriously. you tiny clown belong to
primitive creature of arabian desert.
written by Muslim and proud , March 06, 2012
Do you even know what is being discussed her Moz?
You are talking complete rubbish amigo.
Why don't you go out in the street and do some ARF ARF - there's a good dog......lol
Adios
You are talking complete rubbish amigo.
Why don't you go out in the street and do some ARF ARF - there's a good dog......lol
Adios
written by Mozambique , March 06, 2012
You are shameless islamic pig..worse than a prostitute..go to your motherland afghanistan
its so easy for you to bark sitting in safe kuffar land..you kuffar arse licker for some ponds
this is real you and your brethren..go to iraq and fight for islam..didnt Mo teach you to
do jihad if attacked..and be a martyr...you chicken ass know only stupid talking on IW hiding in kuffarland.. now stop barking with ur filthy mouth..
written by Muslim and proud , March 06, 2012
It is time for your dog food I think - maybe that's why you are talking complete nonsense loser.
Take your bowl and get some dogfood - make sure you lick the bowl as well as your own balls - and remember to make sure you scream ARF ARF - this way you might get some more food.
Take your bowl and get some dogfood - make sure you lick the bowl as well as your own balls - and remember to make sure you scream ARF ARF - this way you might get some more food.
written by Gnostic , March 06, 2012
Is there anybody who has ever tried to write a book? I wrote some books and I know tjat It is not so easy. It is necessary to read it again and again in order to detect such errors and inconsistencies and to correct them. It does not matter what you write but the longer the text it becomes more and more difficult to keep what was written before.
If I read the quran carefully it is very obvious that this book was not written by ONE author but there were different sources were the authors took their texts from. Thats why Pharao died here while he was saved at the other olace. And there are many, many contradictions like the one mentioned in the article.
It think it maybe that Muhammad also contributed to the quran but there were other people as well, probably translators or consultants, then it seems that many texts were rearranged, by Uthman it seems, and maybe there was another guy who inserted typical quranic narrational elements such as "and Allah knows best".
And, not to forget, all this stupid stuff that the quran is not fake but true and that anybody who does not believe that will go to hell and this over and over again. And just consider all the clot-related stuff that at first humans were made from dirt, then from a clot, but hey, before it was sperm, gushed from the backbone and THEN it became a clot, then flesh and then a bone that was coated by flesh again!
This is called a REVEALATION! If this is from all knowing Allah, how stupid must the people be who believe in this???
To be honest, I think the quran is extremely boring, full of errors and contraditions and no publisher would publish this today because no educated man would accept such a nonsense and such a sloppily redacted text!
If I read the quran carefully it is very obvious that this book was not written by ONE author but there were different sources were the authors took their texts from. Thats why Pharao died here while he was saved at the other olace. And there are many, many contradictions like the one mentioned in the article.
It think it maybe that Muhammad also contributed to the quran but there were other people as well, probably translators or consultants, then it seems that many texts were rearranged, by Uthman it seems, and maybe there was another guy who inserted typical quranic narrational elements such as "and Allah knows best".
And, not to forget, all this stupid stuff that the quran is not fake but true and that anybody who does not believe that will go to hell and this over and over again. And just consider all the clot-related stuff that at first humans were made from dirt, then from a clot, but hey, before it was sperm, gushed from the backbone and THEN it became a clot, then flesh and then a bone that was coated by flesh again!
This is called a REVEALATION! If this is from all knowing Allah, how stupid must the people be who believe in this???
To be honest, I think the quran is extremely boring, full of errors and contraditions and no publisher would publish this today because no educated man would accept such a nonsense and such a sloppily redacted text!
written by Garden Variety Troll , March 06, 2012
The Queen approves all laws in England
The parliament approves all laws in England
Both statements are true and not contradictory
However
When context is applied, you will find that the Queen is the FINAL approver.
It's no surprise to see that Mr Krishna is totally oblivious to any context.
So, in which case you're saying that basically when context is applied...
God approves all laws of Islam
Mohammad approves all laws of Islam
Both statements aren't contradictory.
and the clincher...
If I remember correctly the Queen doesn't make laws, the parliament makes the laws that the Queen approves.
So if I remembered correctly and based on the context you provided, God approves what Mohammad makes, no?
God is the final approver, and in the case of the real world example you give is basically a rubber-stamp process that virtually does not involve the Queen every minute. Nice example!
Mr. Krishna is certainly oblivious of your context.
written by Malem , March 06, 2012
You need to learn about the topic of which you speak. Allah is over all, his word is the final and only word. Mohammed was the messenger, period. The words of the Quran are the Words of Allah as delivered to Mohammed through Jibril.
written by duh_swami , March 06, 2012
Quran are the Words of Allah as delivered to Mohammed through Jibril.
Well that's the rumor, but no one really believes it...
Well that's the rumor, but no one really believes it...
written by Malem , March 06, 2012
Id take the time to answer but you said in one of the other posts you had my number so Ill wait for your call.
However you need not believe it, that is the free will given to you by Allah and I would not try to convince you otherwise as there is no reason to nor is it allowed to force or coerce somehow to embrace Islam.
However you need not believe it, that is the free will given to you by Allah and I would not try to convince you otherwise as there is no reason to nor is it allowed to force or coerce somehow to embrace Islam.
written by duh_swami , March 06, 2012
However you need not believe it, that is the free will given to you by Allah
Allah has given me nothing, and if he ever does I will give it right back to him...You keep Allah, he is your spook, not mine...
Allah has given me nothing, and if he ever does I will give it right back to him...You keep Allah, he is your spook, not mine...
written by Just passing through , March 06, 2012
Given what the Islamic world reaps, is it really that odd what is sown is similar in nature?
Good article.
Good article.
written by Dr Radhasyam Brahmachari , March 07, 2012
In fact, Koran is the compilation of delirious utterances of an illiterate delirious man called Muhammad. Hence, only a fool will seek consistency, reliability and uniformity in the Koran.
written by non believer , March 07, 2012
Poor M&P, after having found no ways to defend the indefensible with any reasoned argument has started abusing the writers. He is yet to answer as to why Mo's daughter-in-law swap was approved by Allah.
written by Muslim and proud , March 07, 2012
You are all over the place. Nowhere did I say that the example regarding the parliament and te queen are precisely the same as Islamic law. My pou t was purely to highlight the fact that Context us required in order to make a balanced judgement.
written by Mozambique , March 07, 2012
Balanced judgement my foot...you couldnt make a judgement in 1400 years you judgement is sword you have sword you kill kuffar this is your judgement..you dont have sword you r like piggies..chown chown chown this is what you do islamic pig hiding in kuffar safe lands. go to afganistan and iraq and fight for your piggie brothes you lame pig.if kuffar are dogs why you lick their arse for pounds and dollars go and work in afganistan you big mouth islamic prostitute.
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 07, 2012
Mohammed claim that is just a messenger just as him but not up to class of Mohammed who is seal of all prophet the great Lord of the throne. Let look at their score sheet and see who is greater
JESUS MUHAMMAD
1Jesus was born of a virgin. (Matthew 1:18-25) Muhammad was born of a normal woman. (Ibn Hisham pp. 68-69)
2.Jesus served God as a child. (Luke 2:39-52) Muhammad was and idolater (Sahih Bukhari vol.6, p. 452)
3. Jesus read the Bible. (Luke:16-21) Muhammad was illiterate. (Qur'an 7:156)
4. Jesus preached the gospel at God's command and lived on the donations of others. (Luke 4:16-21 and 8:1-3) Muhammad, without being commanded by God, began to steal from others and live on their goods. (Ibn Hisham pp. 281-)
5.Jesus performed miracles. (Mark 3:9-10) Muhammad could not perform miracles. (Qur'an 29:49)
6. Jesus made blind eyes see. (Luke 18:35-43 Muhammad made seeing eyes blind. (Sahih Bukhari vol. 8, p. 520)
7. Jesus made the lame walk. (Matthew 9:2- Muhammad made the walking lame. (Sahih Bukhari vol. 8, p. 520)
8. Jesus healed withered hands. (Matthew 12:10-13) Muhammad cut off the hands of others. Sahih Bukhari vol.8, p. 520)
9. Jesus raised the dead. (John 11:1-45) Muhammad had the living killed. Ibn Hisham p. 308)
10. Jesus forgave his opponents. (Luke 23:43 Muhammad had his opponents murdered. (Sahih Bukhari vol. 5, pp. 248-)
11. Jesus set the condemned free. (John 8:1-11) Muhammad condemned the free and led them into slavery. (Ibn Hisham p. 466)
12 Jesus preached in God's chosen temple. (Luke 20:1) Muhammad prayed at the Ka'ba when it still contained hundreds of idols. (Sahih Bukari vol. 1, p. 151)
13 Jesus preached against divorce. (Matthew 5:31-32) Muhammad preached divorce and allowed temporary marriage with compensation. (Mut'a) (Qur'an 2:230, Sahih Bukhari vol. 7, p. 8)
14 Jesus was sinless. (John 8:46) Muhammad was sinful. (Qur'an 47:21 and Qur'an 110)
JESUS MUHAMMAD
1Jesus was born of a virgin. (Matthew 1:18-25) Muhammad was born of a normal woman. (Ibn Hisham pp. 68-69)
2.Jesus served God as a child. (Luke 2:39-52) Muhammad was and idolater (Sahih Bukhari vol.6, p. 452)
3. Jesus read the Bible. (Luke:16-21) Muhammad was illiterate. (Qur'an 7:156)
4. Jesus preached the gospel at God's command and lived on the donations of others. (Luke 4:16-21 and 8:1-3) Muhammad, without being commanded by God, began to steal from others and live on their goods. (Ibn Hisham pp. 281-)
5.Jesus performed miracles. (Mark 3:9-10) Muhammad could not perform miracles. (Qur'an 29:49)
6. Jesus made blind eyes see. (Luke 18:35-43 Muhammad made seeing eyes blind. (Sahih Bukhari vol. 8, p. 520)
7. Jesus made the lame walk. (Matthew 9:2- Muhammad made the walking lame. (Sahih Bukhari vol. 8, p. 520)
8. Jesus healed withered hands. (Matthew 12:10-13) Muhammad cut off the hands of others. Sahih Bukhari vol.8, p. 520)
9. Jesus raised the dead. (John 11:1-45) Muhammad had the living killed. Ibn Hisham p. 308)
10. Jesus forgave his opponents. (Luke 23:43 Muhammad had his opponents murdered. (Sahih Bukhari vol. 5, pp. 248-)
11. Jesus set the condemned free. (John 8:1-11) Muhammad condemned the free and led them into slavery. (Ibn Hisham p. 466)
12 Jesus preached in God's chosen temple. (Luke 20:1) Muhammad prayed at the Ka'ba when it still contained hundreds of idols. (Sahih Bukari vol. 1, p. 151)
13 Jesus preached against divorce. (Matthew 5:31-32) Muhammad preached divorce and allowed temporary marriage with compensation. (Mut'a) (Qur'an 2:230, Sahih Bukhari vol. 7, p. 8)
14 Jesus was sinless. (John 8:46) Muhammad was sinful. (Qur'an 47:21 and Qur'an 110)
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 07, 2012
15Jesus gave Himself as a sacrifice for all mankind. (John 1:29 and 10:18) Muhammad died unexpectedly of illness (which he himself said was due to a poisoning attempt). (Sahih Bukhari vol. 5, p. 510)
16. Jesus rose from the dead on the third day after His death, and later ascended into heaven. (Luke 23 and 24)Muhammad was buried in Medina on the third day after his death. His tomb is visited by pilgrims each year. (al-Tabari vol. 9, p. 208)
17 Jesus is God's Word and God Himself. (John 1:1, 14)
18. Jesus taught that one man one wife until
Do them part Mat 19:5,6
19. Jesus taught men to love their wives as themselves, treating them with care
Mat19:5,Eph 5:25
20. Jesus taught that men should not render evil for evil, but forgiving and pray for the enemy
21.Jesus taught men not to swear for any reason. Let your yes be yes and no be no.
22. Jesus taught men to relate to God in a father children relationship when we pray and not as slaves or servants no bowing like the idol worship fashion. Ex 20:4
23.Jesus fixed his eyes on the glory to that will be revealed endure the cross and its shame in order to pay the price of our redemption.
24. Jesus died praying and blessing his enemies Muhammad was only a warner. (Qur'an 29:49)
Mohammed that one man four wives excluding concubines and slave girls until they are no longer useful to man, man can divorce at any time for any reason by just saying I divorce you 3times
Mohammed taught men to beat their wives and threat them as domestic animal good only for breeding, they have half IQ of a man and are stupid, they have half inheritance of a man and a woman’s witness is half that of a man in a law court.
Mohammed taught eye for eye, and retaliation as good virtues
Mohammed taught men to swear by Allah and anything . He swore by Allah and moon and star. Even Allah swore by moon and stars one wonders who was the god among them.Q74:32,81:15-
Mohammed taught that men should relate to Allah as slaves and servants doing the ass up five times daily as prayers. Can you imagine your child doing the ass up before you before you can meet his needs?
Mohammed fixed his eyes on Kaaba the house of idols a business heritage of the kuyrash the tribe of Mohammed and could not endure any humiliation until he mobilized an army to take it by force and made it an international business under the guise of holy pilgrimage.
Mohammed died cursing his supposed enemies the Jews and Christians.
25. Jesus resurrected from the dead and he lives! His Tomb empty, In his name miracle s and wonders are performed, souls are saved in his name alone. Muhammad is dead. He never resurrected His tomb full of bones but his name are recited five times daily in prayers but no answer or any sign and wonders, no soul is saved in his name except to die if you reject him.
16. Jesus rose from the dead on the third day after His death, and later ascended into heaven. (Luke 23 and 24)Muhammad was buried in Medina on the third day after his death. His tomb is visited by pilgrims each year. (al-Tabari vol. 9, p. 208)
17 Jesus is God's Word and God Himself. (John 1:1, 14)
18. Jesus taught that one man one wife until
Do them part Mat 19:5,6
19. Jesus taught men to love their wives as themselves, treating them with care
Mat19:5,Eph 5:25
20. Jesus taught that men should not render evil for evil, but forgiving and pray for the enemy
21.Jesus taught men not to swear for any reason. Let your yes be yes and no be no.
22. Jesus taught men to relate to God in a father children relationship when we pray and not as slaves or servants no bowing like the idol worship fashion. Ex 20:4
23.Jesus fixed his eyes on the glory to that will be revealed endure the cross and its shame in order to pay the price of our redemption.
24. Jesus died praying and blessing his enemies Muhammad was only a warner. (Qur'an 29:49)
Mohammed that one man four wives excluding concubines and slave girls until they are no longer useful to man, man can divorce at any time for any reason by just saying I divorce you 3times
Mohammed taught men to beat their wives and threat them as domestic animal good only for breeding, they have half IQ of a man and are stupid, they have half inheritance of a man and a woman’s witness is half that of a man in a law court.
Mohammed taught eye for eye, and retaliation as good virtues
Mohammed taught men to swear by Allah and anything . He swore by Allah and moon and star. Even Allah swore by moon and stars one wonders who was the god among them.Q74:32,81:15-
Mohammed taught that men should relate to Allah as slaves and servants doing the ass up five times daily as prayers. Can you imagine your child doing the ass up before you before you can meet his needs?
Mohammed fixed his eyes on Kaaba the house of idols a business heritage of the kuyrash the tribe of Mohammed and could not endure any humiliation until he mobilized an army to take it by force and made it an international business under the guise of holy pilgrimage.
Mohammed died cursing his supposed enemies the Jews and Christians.
25. Jesus resurrected from the dead and he lives! His Tomb empty, In his name miracle s and wonders are performed, souls are saved in his name alone. Muhammad is dead. He never resurrected His tomb full of bones but his name are recited five times daily in prayers but no answer or any sign and wonders, no soul is saved in his name except to die if you reject him.
written by Muslim & Proud , March 07, 2012
Did you get your dogfood?
Remember - you must scream ARF ARF and you will receive more you fool.
Good luck and make sure you lick the bowl and your own balls.
Remember - you must scream ARF ARF and you will receive more you fool.
Good luck and make sure you lick the bowl and your own balls.
written by Tanstaafl jw , March 07, 2012
Which is more important? A neutral bystander would say Mohammed. After all, whenever he needs an aya or two, Allah rushes to his aid with a heavenly verse to cover up whatever venal activity Mahommed has done.
written by Proud Infidel , March 08, 2012
You know Mooslim and Proud, you spend the majority of your posts ridiculing others rather than showing Islam to be the true "religion of peace". That speaks volumes in that you can't defend that which is not defendable. Resorting to calling others names does nothing but highlight your utter immaturity.
Keep posting though. People no longer wonder if you're an idiot, you continue to prove that you're an idiot. One that doesn't know a thing about Islam, except the lies that you continue to believe.
Keep posting though. People no longer wonder if you're an idiot, you continue to prove that you're an idiot. One that doesn't know a thing about Islam, except the lies that you continue to believe.
written by Gnostic , March 08, 2012
The quran is contradictious everywhere and obscure. The result is that muslims again and again cannot achieve unity about the interpretation which leads to disorientation d anger and even conflicts among muslims. Rulers have an easy job to pay corrupt scribes for fatwas that please them in order to stay in power. In fact god becomes the scapegoat for everything such as the mistakes of the ruler. Look at Syria! The recently newly introduced constitution declares that islam is the root behind any law. Any criminal can pretend to be what is considered to be a good muslim. But islam is not the solution, it is the problem. It does not help at all but it makes things more difficult.
written by Muslim & Proud , March 08, 2012
Resorting to calling others names does nothing but highlight your utter immaturity.
So what you are saying is that NONE OF US should resort to calling ANYBODY names..........
Do you think this is possible?
Let's face it, the majority of cursed ex-muslims make it their mission in life to ridicule Islam and use all sorts of obscene language.
Keep posting though. People no longer wonder if you're an idiot, you continue to prove that you're an idiot. One that doesn't know a thing about Islam, except the lies that you continue to believe.
Your father, Mr Khan, who is the editor of this site, did not know that Zakaat is obligatory. This is despite the years of scrutiny and analysis of Islam. Enough said. I am not here to make any friends. I am not here to make any enemies either. I am here to defend Islam.......period.
written by vbv , March 08, 2012
Good article. It clearly exposes that Quran is a fabrication to satisfy the humger for political power and lechery and criminal tendencies like plunder,masacre ,slave-running, pedophilia,fornication,sodomy,etc at which Muhamad excelled . Islam is an elaborate fraud with criminal intent ,creating zombies under extreme coercion by the fanatic zealots who only want to create an immoral dispensation filled with hatred, intolerance and violence against those who do not submit to this uncouth barbarianisms.It is a racist cult that places arabs at the top with turks and iranians just behind while others are required to submit to the supremacy of the arabs,turks and iranians. Quran is not book of any good moral or philosophy ,but a criminal manual with extremely violent intent flouting basic human rights, child rights and freedom of conscience , in favour of zombie-type existence.
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 08, 2012
"Your father, Mr Khan, who is the editor of this site, did not know that Zakaat is obligatory."
If you study your scriptures very well you will discover that Zakaat has pagan root as well. Is not as if is a new obligation in new religion of Islam. There is nothing in Islam that has no paganism or historically link with the idolatrous practices before Mohammed.
However, Zaakat appear to be the only obligation that that has human face. That is if given to poor is the main purpose as defined by muslim today. I Mohammed used it enrich himself during the his time. 20% of the booty went to him and his pupet Allah.
At any case if I am to pick anything of Islam now that human can benefit from may be is this so call Zaakat.
If you study your scriptures very well you will discover that Zakaat has pagan root as well. Is not as if is a new obligation in new religion of Islam. There is nothing in Islam that has no paganism or historically link with the idolatrous practices before Mohammed.
However, Zaakat appear to be the only obligation that that has human face. That is if given to poor is the main purpose as defined by muslim today. I Mohammed used it enrich himself during the his time. 20% of the booty went to him and his pupet Allah.
At any case if I am to pick anything of Islam now that human can benefit from may be is this so call Zaakat.
written by Editor, M A Khan , March 08, 2012
"Your father, Mr Khan, who is the editor of this site, did not know that Zakaat is obligatory."If you use name-calling and abusive language one more time -- you will be banned from commenting.
I have replied the zakaat issue in the other thread.
written by Muslim & Proud , March 08, 2012
If you use name-calling and abusive language one more time -- you will be banned from commenting.
Does this rule apply to everyone?
I have replied the zakaat issue in the other thread.
No problem. So you now understand that Zakaat is obligatory and not voluntary as you previously thought.
written by duh_swami , March 08, 2012
Does this rule apply to everyone?
I would think so sweet boy, but since this site belongs to Mr Khan, he can decide these matters selectively... And it is up to him to decide what name-calling and abusive language is, not you...You have specifically been warned...If you want to keep defending Islam here sweet boy, you should comply...I for one will miss you when your gone...but in reality you sweet lovable Muslim, you can be replaced...
I would think so sweet boy, but since this site belongs to Mr Khan, he can decide these matters selectively... And it is up to him to decide what name-calling and abusive language is, not you...You have specifically been warned...If you want to keep defending Islam here sweet boy, you should comply...I for one will miss you when your gone...but in reality you sweet lovable Muslim, you can be replaced...
written by Malem , March 08, 2012
Mr Khan, I do applaud your editorial control of the site and trying to keep the name calilng and senseless banter to a minimum, but will you be applying this equally across all posters? Seems to me there is one poster who I will let you determine, that has not replied in any post in the last week without using name calling to me. I refrain from such behavior as it does nothing to add to the discussion.
Duh - I must ask what is this ongoing need to refer to men as "sweet boy" "sweet doctor" "precious", seems quite odd from a perspective of two people jsut talking to each other doesnt it? I know that some men do refer to their wives/loves in that respect but this is the first time I have seen one man calling another that name.
In regards to Zakaat - The Holy Quran does not "state" that Zakaat is obligatory, however the general feeling is one should give to the poor as way of helping thy brothers/sisters
Duh - I must ask what is this ongoing need to refer to men as "sweet boy" "sweet doctor" "precious", seems quite odd from a perspective of two people jsut talking to each other doesnt it? I know that some men do refer to their wives/loves in that respect but this is the first time I have seen one man calling another that name.
In regards to Zakaat - The Holy Quran does not "state" that Zakaat is obligatory, however the general feeling is one should give to the poor as way of helping thy brothers/sisters
written by duh_swami , March 08, 2012
All you Muslims are sweet boys aren't you? Pearly even, I'm just calling you what you are sweets, 'sweet'...I don't care if you understand it or not precious one...
I don't believe in fairy tales and you do...Ain't that just too sweet?
I don't believe in fairy tales and you do...Ain't that just too sweet?
written by Malem , March 08, 2012
Ok Now I see, you are baiting me in with the remarks so in turn you can try and get response or maybe a gutteral reaction from thus to attack me on. Clever, albeit a bit naive in concept. Good luck with that!
You might, just might, want to stick to the original topic. Much more interesting!
You might, just might, want to stick to the original topic. Much more interesting!
written by duh_swami , March 08, 2012
'Ok Now I see, you are baiting me'
Bait is for fish sweet doctor...Are you a fish? A flounder maybe?
'You might, just might, want to stick to the original topic'.
If sticking to the topic is important to you sweetest Doctor, why are you off it?
Bait is for fish sweet doctor...Are you a fish? A flounder maybe?
'You might, just might, want to stick to the original topic'.
If sticking to the topic is important to you sweetest Doctor, why are you off it?
written by Machmoed , March 08, 2012
The Holy Quran does not "state" that Zakaat is obligatory, however the general feeling is one should give to the poor as way of helping thy brothers/sisters
Are you saying that MA Khan was right in the first place and your brother M&P was wrong after all..again.
No surprise there!
Are you saying that MA Khan was right in the first place and your brother M&P was wrong after all..again.
No surprise there!
written by Malem , March 08, 2012
It could be that M&P was referring to Hadith, I am speaking to the Holy Quran only and there is nothing in there about it being obligatory, should you find something please let me know.
written by lw1 , March 08, 2012
Muslim and Proud says '.......No problem. So you now understand that Zakaat is obligatory and not voluntary as you previously thought.'
Malem says '.........In regards to Zakaat -The Holy Quran does not 'state' that Zakaat is obligatory, however the general feeling is one should give to the poor as way of helping thy brothers/sisters.'
Malem says '.........In regards to Zakaat -The Holy Quran does not 'state' that Zakaat is obligatory, however the general feeling is one should give to the poor as way of helping thy brothers/sisters.'
written by Malem , March 08, 2012
In the Holy Quran here is what it says "...... guiding by Our Command, and sent them inspiration to do good deeds, to establish regular prayers, and to practise regular charity; and they constantly served Us.." also "But squander not in the manner of a spendthrift." "The charity you give shall go to the parents, the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the traveling alien" a few other mentions of charity. There is no place in the Holan Quran that states Zakaat is olbligatory.
written by lw1 , March 08, 2012
Thank you for the clarification. I would appreciate if you let me know which Surah it is.
More important, you have to convince Muslim and Proud.
More important, you have to convince Muslim and Proud.
written by Muslim and proud , March 08, 2012
Salaam Bro
Please check 9:60 - here it is
(9:60) As a matter of fact, Zakat collections are only for the needy and the indigent, and for those who are employed to collect them and for those whose hearts are to be won over and for the ransoming of slaves and for helping the debtors and for the way of Allah and for the hospitality of the wayfarers. This is an obligatory duty from Allah: and Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.
Please check 9:60 - here it is
(9:60) As a matter of fact, Zakat collections are only for the needy and the indigent, and for those who are employed to collect them and for those whose hearts are to be won over and for the ransoming of slaves and for helping the debtors and for the way of Allah and for the hospitality of the wayfarers. This is an obligatory duty from Allah: and Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.
written by Malem , March 08, 2012
Wa Alaikum Al Salam Bro
"Alms are for the poor and the needy, and those employed to administer the funds; for those whose hearts have been reconciled ; for those in bondage and in debt; in the cause of Allah; and for the wayfarer: ORDAINED by Allah, and Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom" or another way to read it is The charities are to go to the poor, the needy, those who work on their collection, those whose hearts are to be reconciled, free the slaves, those in debt, in the cause of God, and to the wayfarer. A duty from God; God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
Now that being said, it clearly indicates that Charity or Alms be directed to certain people, and earlier in the Quran it defines Charity/Alms/Zakaat as excess of what you have, not a percentage of what you have( 2.5% etc..). The Quran teaches us not to squander our wealth but rather it is out duty to help others not as fortunate.
That is much different than saying every week you have to pay 2.5% of your check to Zakaat, no matter what you make, what you need etc...that is not what it says.
The bigger pitcure is not whether you feel the your are obliged, it is your duty, or it is ordained by Allah, it is that it is done period. To give to others in the way of money, time, labor etc.. are all part of Zakaat. Getting wrapped up in a percentage % is the game of satan to distract you.
Salaam
"Alms are for the poor and the needy, and those employed to administer the funds; for those whose hearts have been reconciled ; for those in bondage and in debt; in the cause of Allah; and for the wayfarer: ORDAINED by Allah, and Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom" or another way to read it is The charities are to go to the poor, the needy, those who work on their collection, those whose hearts are to be reconciled, free the slaves, those in debt, in the cause of God, and to the wayfarer. A duty from God; God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
Now that being said, it clearly indicates that Charity or Alms be directed to certain people, and earlier in the Quran it defines Charity/Alms/Zakaat as excess of what you have, not a percentage of what you have( 2.5% etc..). The Quran teaches us not to squander our wealth but rather it is out duty to help others not as fortunate.
That is much different than saying every week you have to pay 2.5% of your check to Zakaat, no matter what you make, what you need etc...that is not what it says.
The bigger pitcure is not whether you feel the your are obliged, it is your duty, or it is ordained by Allah, it is that it is done period. To give to others in the way of money, time, labor etc.. are all part of Zakaat. Getting wrapped up in a percentage % is the game of satan to distract you.
Salaam
written by duh_swami , March 08, 2012
Getting wrapped up in a percentage % is the game of satan to distract you.
Yeah, the devil made him do it...Haha...that's great...
Yeah, the devil made him do it...Haha...that's great...
written by Malem , March 08, 2012
You have no understanding of the Holy Quran, so you laugh. You might be interested in this old saying "الجاهل لا يأخذ متعة في الفهم، ولكن فقط في التعبير عن رأيه." If you need help with its meaning and understanding please let me know
written by Muslim and proud , March 08, 2012
Salaam Bro
If you park the amount/% etc for a moment and think about the principal - I.e. Zakaat, then this is a duty ordained by Allah (the exalted) for those who are capable to do so. It is a requirement as a muslim to pay Zakaat - it is not a voluntary duty - it is obligatorycompulsory as per the command in the Noble Qur'an.
If you park the amount/% etc for a moment and think about the principal - I.e. Zakaat, then this is a duty ordained by Allah (the exalted) for those who are capable to do so. It is a requirement as a muslim to pay Zakaat - it is not a voluntary duty - it is obligatorycompulsory as per the command in the Noble Qur'an.
written by duh_swami , March 08, 2012
You have no understanding of the Holy Quran,
Oneupsmanship again Mister Superior Being? I thought the Quran was clear? How can I not understand it?
You might be interested in this old saying, sweet Doctor, $%@*(*&^%&*(((((%(___&%&+_+_+(&()...If you have problems understanding that, please let me know...
Oneupsmanship again Mister Superior Being? I thought the Quran was clear? How can I not understand it?
You might be interested in this old saying, sweet Doctor, $%@*(*&^%&*(((((%(___&%&+_+_+(&()...If you have problems understanding that, please let me know...
written by Malem , March 08, 2012
Duh, I cannot understand those random characters so please translate to English if you can, much obliged.
written by duh_swami , March 08, 2012
It says that the Quran is from the dark side and full of evil fairy tales...Is there any more you would like to know sweet Doctor?
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 09, 2012
" Yes, what language is it? "
Is the meaning you want or the language? You want to learn the Language?
As long as you can interpret the chicken legs you post here we are ok. We don't to know the language.
I think Duh doesn't n need to tell you the language
Is the meaning you want or the language? You want to learn the Language?
As long as you can interpret the chicken legs you post here we are ok. We don't to know the language.
I think Duh doesn't n need to tell you the language
written by lw1 , March 09, 2012
M&P and Malem have diametrically opposite interpretation whether Zakaat is voluntary or obligatory and have addressed each other civilly. Many Muslims e.g. Sunnis and Shias are killing each other because of their interpretations.
written by Malem , March 09, 2012
Why would brother Muslims not treat each other civily? Oh thats right thats one of the labels and falsehoods that gets put on them all the time so we should believe them true....
written by Yibel , March 09, 2012
"There was a time when when God disguised as a finger wrote some stuff on a wall for Moses to read, but it was not in Arabic... "
To Duh and Pastor
Perhaps duh was referring to the prophesy made concerning the fall of Babylon (Hebrew bab, meaning gate, and alion, meaning of the god - Marduk, Muhammad's allah)
YHVH sent an angel disquised as a hand to write this message on the wall of a
Babylonian place where the king Bel Shazzar was having a feast:
MENE MENE TEKEL UPHAR SIN
And the Prophet of YHVH, Daniel (Book of Daniel, Chapter 5) gave the meaning:
YHVH has numbered thy kingdom, and finished it. Thou art weighed in the balances and art found wanting. Thy kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians.
To Duh and Pastor
Perhaps duh was referring to the prophesy made concerning the fall of Babylon (Hebrew bab, meaning gate, and alion, meaning of the god - Marduk, Muhammad's allah)
YHVH sent an angel disquised as a hand to write this message on the wall of a
Babylonian place where the king Bel Shazzar was having a feast:
MENE MENE TEKEL UPHAR SIN
And the Prophet of YHVH, Daniel (Book of Daniel, Chapter 5) gave the meaning:
YHVH has numbered thy kingdom, and finished it. Thou art weighed in the balances and art found wanting. Thy kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians.
written by Mahmoud , March 09, 2012
Are you seriously trying to prove contradictions in the Quran by using TRANSLATIONS??? Sadly, meaning is lost when translating from any language into another, but using a translation as proof is asinine. Try again, captain.
written by duh_swami , March 09, 2012
You mean my Quran in English is faulty, wrong or incomplete? Does Allah know that his words
are being misrepresented? Do the translators read, write and speak Arabic? How could they produce an imperfect Quran?...Wouldn't that be haram?
are being misrepresented? Do the translators read, write and speak Arabic? How could they produce an imperfect Quran?...Wouldn't that be haram?
written by Machmoed , March 10, 2012
Maybe Mahmoud is trying to say that qur'an is actually ment for arabs who were born into the language of qur'an since they could extract the right/true meaning from its words. How unfair of Allah to favour one group and let the other down.
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 10, 2012
"YHVH sent an angel disquised as a hand to write this message on the wall of a
Babylonian place where the king Bel Shazzar was having a feast: "
You are right
Thanks for the additional information. That was another instance that God wrote but whether this was done by an Angel or not we cannot tell
Babylonian place where the king Bel Shazzar was having a feast: "
You are right
Thanks for the additional information. That was another instance that God wrote but whether this was done by an Angel or not we cannot tell
written by Malem , March 10, 2012
It was written in Arabic, actually an older version of the modern Arabic(s) spoken/written today because that was the language of the messenger. The Bible has taken even a more winding route from Hebrew to Greek with some Aramaic inserted to Latin and onto other languages. To this day they have found various meanings slightly changed from the original. Arabic can be different in Saudi vs Egypt versus Mahgreb vs Levant etc. so careful and knowledgeable effort must be taken to read it and more importantly comprehend it. Do transliterations have their place, yes, but when you are trying to pick apart a certain word etc.. like many times on this blog it is important to understand the context and mean of the entire surah as well
written by then lie , March 10, 2012
Allah said Muhammad was sent for guiding people to Islam; He also said, Muhammad was not to guide.
ISLAM HAVE PERFECTED BY ALLAH(KING OF THE GOD) ALL MUSLIM KNOW. HOLY QURAN 5:3 This day are those who disbelieve in despair of (ever harming) your religion; so fear
them not, fear Me! This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen
for you as religion AL- ISLAM.
ISLAM HAVE PERFECTED BY ALLAH(KING OF THE GOD) ALL MUSLIM KNOW. HOLY QURAN 5:3 This day are those who disbelieve in despair of (ever harming) your religion; so fear
them not, fear Me! This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen
for you as religion AL- ISLAM.
written by then lie , March 10, 2012
yusuf ali,picktal or sakir they good translator but if some body interpret holy quran he must be have 15 (mastered 15 branches of science) master 15 branches of science: 1. memorize quran
2. Arabic language proficient.
3. Arabic grammar
4. hadith master
5. master fiqh
6. master history of Islam
7. to know the reasons for the decline in quran
8. science bayan
9. science lughat
10. science maani
11. nasikh and masukh science
12. etc
who is the master Quran ? 1.Ibnu Abbas 2.Ibnu katsir in indonesia Quraish sihab etc
2. Arabic language proficient.
3. Arabic grammar
4. hadith master
5. master fiqh
6. master history of Islam
7. to know the reasons for the decline in quran
8. science bayan
9. science lughat
10. science maani
11. nasikh and masukh science
12. etc
who is the master Quran ? 1.Ibnu Abbas 2.Ibnu katsir in indonesia Quraish sihab etc
written by then lie , March 10, 2012
Now all the people back to islam after make reaserch inlike Prof DR Mauriche Buchile , Prof DR Tagatat Quran Tajasen, Allah open his mind about Holy Quran Prof DR Yahya Waloni x Priest in Indonesia
written by duh_swami , March 10, 2012
All Muslims either lie about the Quran deliberately, or ignorantly...According to Muslims the original, one and only Quran resides in Heaven with Allah...That means that no human has ever seen it and can't know for sure what it contains...Allah's original may contain chapters no one knows about, that Allah has planned for the future, or maybe Allah is busy writing a Quran #2 to correct all the glaring mistakes in the one he sent down to man as Quran #1...The point is that Muslims believe passionately in Quran, when in reality, they can't really vouch for it's validity and accuracy because they have not seen the original...In this way, Allah does not mislead a few, he misleads everyone...He is either a liar or one huge joker...
written by then lie , March 10, 2012
original Quran in arabic.
S U R A T A L - H I J R
15:9. Sesungguhnya Kami-lah yang menurunkan Al Qur'an, dan sesungguhnya Kami benar-benar memeliharanya.
15:9. Lo! We, even We, reveal the Reminder, and lo! We verily are it's Guardian.
nobody make Quran even one sura.
Allah save Quran
S U R A T A L - B A Q A R A H
2:23. Dan jika kamu (tetap) dalam keraguan tentang Al Qur'an yang Kami wahyukan kepada hamba Kami (Muhammad), buatlah satu surat (saja) yang semisal Al Qur'an itu dan ajaklah penolong-penolongmu selain Allah, jika kamu orang-orang yang benar.
23. And if ye are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a sura or the like thereof, and call your witnesses beside Allah if ye are truthful.
after 14 century no body make even arabian christian.this prove that Allah is true.and Quran is original.
S U R A T A L - H I J R
15:9. Sesungguhnya Kami-lah yang menurunkan Al Qur'an, dan sesungguhnya Kami benar-benar memeliharanya.
15:9. Lo! We, even We, reveal the Reminder, and lo! We verily are it's Guardian.
nobody make Quran even one sura.
Allah save Quran
S U R A T A L - B A Q A R A H
2:23. Dan jika kamu (tetap) dalam keraguan tentang Al Qur'an yang Kami wahyukan kepada hamba Kami (Muhammad), buatlah satu surat (saja) yang semisal Al Qur'an itu dan ajaklah penolong-penolongmu selain Allah, jika kamu orang-orang yang benar.
23. And if ye are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a sura or the like thereof, and call your witnesses beside Allah if ye are truthful.
after 14 century no body make even arabian christian.this prove that Allah is true.and Quran is original.
written by duh_swami , March 11, 2012
original Quran in arabic.
But then lie, how can that be when the original resides with Allah in Heaven? Have you seen his original Quran? How can you be sure your copy is the same as Allah's original, if you have never seen it?
But then lie, how can that be when the original resides with Allah in Heaven? Have you seen his original Quran? How can you be sure your copy is the same as Allah's original, if you have never seen it?
written by Cerebrum123 , March 11, 2012
It would be best to actually know the original language of the Quran ,or any other ancient book for that matter. Words change in meaning over time ,and this makes things harder. Now to say that an English translation of the Quran is completely useless I would disagree. Basic meaning can be retained through translation. I don't have a problem with someone saying that an English translation of the Quran isn't the same as an Arabic one ,but I do have a problem when they say the translation is completely useless and should be ignored.
@ vbv
Just in case you see this I wanted to answer one of your questions I didn't get to answer earlier. You were saying that George Bernard Shaws was a great atheist thinker. I pointed out that he wasn't such a good guy ,and was for gas chambers. you asked who did he want in the gas chambers. It comes down to one word "unfit". This of course means different things to different people. To Hitler it meant anybody from the elderly and disable ,to his personal favorite enemy the Jews. Look at one of your own sources wikipedia ,and look at what it says under the category Eugenics for G.B. Shaws page.
@ vbv
Just in case you see this I wanted to answer one of your questions I didn't get to answer earlier. You were saying that George Bernard Shaws was a great atheist thinker. I pointed out that he wasn't such a good guy ,and was for gas chambers. you asked who did he want in the gas chambers. It comes down to one word "unfit". This of course means different things to different people. To Hitler it meant anybody from the elderly and disable ,to his personal favorite enemy the Jews. Look at one of your own sources wikipedia ,and look at what it says under the category Eugenics for G.B. Shaws page.
written by Malem , March 11, 2012
The first Holy Quran for mankind was delivered to Mohamed via Jibril. If you look in your Wiki you will see that.
written by duh_swami , March 11, 2012
Gabriel was a girl...Like all girls looking for a free hand out, she lied...You simply believe her lies...You see Sweet Doctor, Mohammad was not a mature enough magician to know how to test an entity like Gabriel for authenticity...Demons, according to available literature and testimony, are notorious for misrepresenting themselves to any human unfortunate enough to encounter them...Most likely Mohammads demon was not Gabriel at all, but Lilith, you may have heard of her...She was Adams first wife, according to some, and Queen of the Night Demons, Incubus and Succubus, who visit Muslim men in their dreams, and have sex with them, according to others...Most Likely Lilith appeared to Mohammad as succubus, and seduced him each and every time...Now she seduces you...This is very sad Doctor sweet...You are Possessed by the shade of Lilith, posing as Gabriel, posing as Allah...All talking demon sht sometimes called 'Dragon Dirt'...The Quran is a collection of Dragon Dirt in fairy tale form...And that is Islam, a pile of Dragon Dirt...So it is written and so mote it be...
written by Malem , March 12, 2012
Fantastic response, if you wanted to read garbage that has no value! at least your consistent that has to be something to be proud of
written by duh_swami , March 12, 2012
Fantastic response, if you wanted to read garbage that has no value! at least your consistent that has to be something to be proud of
I'm not interested in your immature critique Sweetest Doctor...I don't expect you to understand information above your pay grade...
I'm not interested in your immature critique Sweetest Doctor...I don't expect you to understand information above your pay grade...
written by lw1 , March 12, 2012
Sunnis and Shias killing each other is civil behaviour?
You wrote 'Why would brother Muslims not treat each other civilly? Oh thats right thats one of the labels and falsehoods that gets put on them all the time so we should believe them true .....'
Sunnis and Shias are killing each other because of their interpretations.
There is no falsehood in the above statement, and Muslims themselves put on the labels.
You wrote 'Why would brother Muslims not treat each other civilly? Oh thats right thats one of the labels and falsehoods that gets put on them all the time so we should believe them true .....'
Sunnis and Shias are killing each other because of their interpretations.
There is no falsehood in the above statement, and Muslims themselves put on the labels.
written by Ramkrishna , March 13, 2012
The Quran itself claims to be clear. If its clear in Arabic then it can be understood. If it can be understood it can be translated in any language including English. To be on the safe side I quoted THREE TRANSLATIONS. If this doesn't satisfy you, I don't know what will.
Further, the verses I quoted didn't have high flying meanings. They are simple and easy. One says that Muhammad should guide, the other says he shouldn't. The contradiction is so clear that even further explainations aren't needed.
Can u prove me wrong???
Further, the verses I quoted didn't have high flying meanings. They are simple and easy. One says that Muhammad should guide, the other says he shouldn't. The contradiction is so clear that even further explainations aren't needed.
Can u prove me wrong???
written by Ramkrishna , March 13, 2012
QUOTE: ' "Allah said Muhammad was sent for guiding people to Islam; He also said, Muhammad was not to guide."
ISLAM HAVE PERFECTED BY ALLAH(KING OF THE GOD) ALL MUSLIM KNOW. HOLY QURAN 5:3 This day are those who disbelieve in despair of (ever harming) your religion; so fear them not, fear Me! This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion AL- ISLAM'
Then lie, you missed the point completely! You didn't even tried to refute what I said. Does that mean that you don't hv any answer???
Further you have commited the fallacy of 'circular reasoning'. You said Quran is from God because Quran says so! By this mad reasoning I can claim to be a prophet of God and you hv to believe me because I said so!!
Quote: "yusuf ali,picktal or sakir they good translator but if some body interpret holy quran he must be have 15 (mastered 15 branches of science) master 15 branches of science:"
I didn't try to interpret the Quran. I simply pointed out a contradiction!!
At least think before you type!
ISLAM HAVE PERFECTED BY ALLAH(KING OF THE GOD) ALL MUSLIM KNOW. HOLY QURAN 5:3 This day are those who disbelieve in despair of (ever harming) your religion; so fear them not, fear Me! This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion AL- ISLAM'
Then lie, you missed the point completely! You didn't even tried to refute what I said. Does that mean that you don't hv any answer???
Further you have commited the fallacy of 'circular reasoning'. You said Quran is from God because Quran says so! By this mad reasoning I can claim to be a prophet of God and you hv to believe me because I said so!!
Quote: "yusuf ali,picktal or sakir they good translator but if some body interpret holy quran he must be have 15 (mastered 15 branches of science) master 15 branches of science:"
I didn't try to interpret the Quran. I simply pointed out a contradiction!!
At least think before you type!
written by Muslim & Proud , March 13, 2012
Further, the verses I quoted didn't have high flying meanings. They are simple and easy. One says that Muhammad should guide, the other says he shouldn't. The contradiction is so clear that even further explainations aren't needed.
Can u prove me wrong???
I already have mr krishna.
written by MAlem , March 13, 2012
What you are trying to say is that Muslims have the market on treating each other badly? That is laughable. To address your point though Muslims are jsut that Muslims, there should be no "sects", read the Quran it mentions NO sects, those were made up by men later on and have caused many issues.
written by Cerebrum123 , March 13, 2012
Lillith is a myth only ,and is not real. Legends came about from people who didn't understand the Bible. People will often point to a certain verse that mentions Lillith ,but the word translated as Lillith simply means creatures of the night. I don't understand why people think that Genesis 1 ,and Genesis 2 are entirely different accounts(they both have to do with creation). If you take a good look at some real scholarship a person can find that they are the same account ,but the second one goes into far more detail ,and focuses on Adam and Eve.
written by Ramkrishna , March 13, 2012
Yes, I did notice that both of you had responded to my article. Thanks for that. I am terribly busy but within a max of two days I hope that I would have some time to reply. Ofcourse, I can write: "you are wrong" etc. but it won't lead us anywhere, will it?
written by duh_swami , March 14, 2012
Lillith is a myth only ,and is not real.
Lilith is as real as the rest of the characters mentioned in the Bible or elsewhere...
Lilith is as real as the rest of the characters mentioned in the Bible or elsewhere...
written by duh_swami , March 14, 2012
but the second one goes into far more detail ,and focuses on Adam and Eve.
Some researchers claim that Gen 1@2 are reversed...That 2 was written by Yawists and 1. was written later by Eloists...According to these same people, Yawists were reporters and not propagandists as were the Eloists...In other words Gen 2. Is a more honest in it's reporting...
Some researchers claim that Gen 1@2 are reversed...That 2 was written by Yawists and 1. was written later by Eloists...According to these same people, Yawists were reporters and not propagandists as were the Eloists...In other words Gen 2. Is a more honest in it's reporting...
written by RW , March 14, 2012
Dear Ram. You write “Allah said Muhammad was sent for guiding people to Islam; He also said, Muhammad was not to guide”. And you wish to analyze the role of Muhammad, apostle, in the light of Quran. For this purpose you have quoted various English translations of Quran verses 2:272, 13:7: 28:56, 32:3, 62:2, 65:11 and 32:24.
On reading text of respective translations you will observe that there is no ‘OMuhammad’ anywhere. Quran is addressed to humanity, to you and me, and this ‘OMuhammad’ is from the translator. He ((translator) knows it that’s why he uses brackets. Quran has no brackets. On eliminating ‘OMuhammad’, most of doubts will vanish.
Quran reader is clear that God does not share his authority with any (18:26):
َبْصِرْ بِهِ وَأَسْمِعْ ۚ مَا لَهُم مِّن دُونِهِ مِن وَلِيٍّ وَلَا يُشْرِكُ فِي حُكْمِهِ أَحَدًا
It is also clear that the Messengers of God are not more than messengers and they don’t teach and guide on their own right. It is the message they bring forth that guides. They knew their limits and were reminded their size. The verses quoted by you also endorse this. By ‘you cannot guide’ he means that there are principles formulated by God for that.
Quran clears it time and again that it is none god who is to be followed:
“Ask them, "Can any of your associates of God guide you to the Truth?" Say, "Only God guides to the Truth." Is the one who guides to the Truth a proper guide or one who himself cannot find guidance unless he is guided? What is wrong with you that you judge so unjustly? 10:35
Here “or one who himself cannot find guidance unless he is guided” includes all the apostles including apostles Jesus /Muhammad.
On reading text of respective translations you will observe that there is no ‘OMuhammad’ anywhere. Quran is addressed to humanity, to you and me, and this ‘OMuhammad’ is from the translator. He ((translator) knows it that’s why he uses brackets. Quran has no brackets. On eliminating ‘OMuhammad’, most of doubts will vanish.
Quran reader is clear that God does not share his authority with any (18:26):
َبْصِرْ بِهِ وَأَسْمِعْ ۚ مَا لَهُم مِّن دُونِهِ مِن وَلِيٍّ وَلَا يُشْرِكُ فِي حُكْمِهِ أَحَدًا
It is also clear that the Messengers of God are not more than messengers and they don’t teach and guide on their own right. It is the message they bring forth that guides. They knew their limits and were reminded their size. The verses quoted by you also endorse this. By ‘you cannot guide’ he means that there are principles formulated by God for that.
Quran clears it time and again that it is none god who is to be followed:
“Ask them, "Can any of your associates of God guide you to the Truth?" Say, "Only God guides to the Truth." Is the one who guides to the Truth a proper guide or one who himself cannot find guidance unless he is guided? What is wrong with you that you judge so unjustly? 10:35
Here “or one who himself cannot find guidance unless he is guided” includes all the apostles including apostles Jesus /Muhammad.
written by duh_swami , March 14, 2012
You don't write like Reed Wilson, but you are every bit as delusional...When are you going to appear and inform your brothers of the evils of hadis and sharia?
written by Muslim & Proud , March 14, 2012
Salaam Bro.
A word of advice - Duh_Swami is the local bigot - try and ignore him.....he talks pure garbage.
A word of advice - Duh_Swami is the local bigot - try and ignore him.....he talks pure garbage.
written by duh_swami , March 14, 2012
Mr sweet Muslim boy...If that is the illustrious Reed Wilson who sometimes posted as RW, we know each other well...There is nothing you can tell him about me that he doesn't already know...Reed is a Quran only Muslim who is plenty capable of explaining to you why hadis is a fake...and why you should ignore them...
written by Cerebrum123 , March 14, 2012
You're claim about Genesis 2 and the Yawists ,is just appeal to anonymous authority at this point. I tried clicking on what I thought was a link in the above post ,but for some reason my email program popped up asking me to send an email to "1&2". Also there is much historical evidence to support the existence of people mentioned in the Bible (Jesus has the greatest evidence in this category by far). No evidence of Lillith though.
You also accidentally referred to me as Clement.
You also accidentally referred to me as Clement.
written by RW , March 15, 2012
Hi
The admins sifting software did not permit Reed Wilson. I put RW in name box and it worked. Your style is also changed a good deal. Yes we know each other for quite some time. We exchanged some serious posts. One I produce here:
The daily Reed...tales of fantasy...
written by duh_swami , November 03, 2010
I'm getting tired of the Reed Wilson show...Islam-watch has morphed into Wilson-watch...Wilson has an answer (excuse) for everything, everyone has Islam wrong except himself, and he will post hundreds of Quran verses to show you how wrong you are...None of the words used in the Quran mean what you think they mean because you don't know Arabic or the dictionary meaning of obscure Arabic words...Reed is the expert here, so no input from you know nothings means anything, you are always wrong, and Reed is always right...always......I don't know about anyone else, but as far as I am concerned, Reed can have Islam-watch ...It's his...There are greener fields elsewhere.
You write "According to Muslims the original, one and only Quran resides in Heaven with Allah." This should not be basis of your logic.
The admins sifting software did not permit Reed Wilson. I put RW in name box and it worked. Your style is also changed a good deal. Yes we know each other for quite some time. We exchanged some serious posts. One I produce here:
The daily Reed...tales of fantasy...
written by duh_swami , November 03, 2010
I'm getting tired of the Reed Wilson show...Islam-watch has morphed into Wilson-watch...Wilson has an answer (excuse) for everything, everyone has Islam wrong except himself, and he will post hundreds of Quran verses to show you how wrong you are...None of the words used in the Quran mean what you think they mean because you don't know Arabic or the dictionary meaning of obscure Arabic words...Reed is the expert here, so no input from you know nothings means anything, you are always wrong, and Reed is always right...always......I don't know about anyone else, but as far as I am concerned, Reed can have Islam-watch ...It's his...There are greener fields elsewhere.
You write "According to Muslims the original, one and only Quran resides in Heaven with Allah." This should not be basis of your logic.
written by Ramkrishna , March 15, 2012
[Mr Krishna,
You should maybe focus on the Vedas?
With regards to your article, It is so simple to refute that even a 10 year old Muslim can do it.
I will provide a detailed refutation later....for now, you can concentrate on the following:
1 - Allah (the exalted) revealed the Holy Qur'an to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
2 - Angel Gibrail (as) revealed the Holy Qur'an to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
Both statements are true and not a contradiction, however it was the will of Allah (the exalted), without which, Angel Gibrail (as) could not have done anything.
1 - Allah (the exalted) is the ultimate guide and guides whomsoever he wills - based on his own will and decision.
2 - Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the guide to those whom Allah (the exalted) has chosen to guide.
The ultimate "will" and "decision" remains with Allah (the exalted).
/quote]
Regarding your first example: Revelation by Allah and Gibrail, consider this: if only these two statements were mentioned without any explainations, then they would surely contradict. They are not considered as contradictions because explainations are available in Quran and Sunnah. Allah allegedly revealed the Quran to Muhammad through Gibrael.
Now coming to your second example: your statement- "2 - Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the guide to those whom Allah (the exalted) has chosen to guide."....contradicts Q13:7 which states that M was a guide to all. Further, let us put this statement of yours to test. Kindly show us a verse from Quran where Allah says: O Muhammad guide so and so because I have chosen to guide them and don't guide so and so because I have denied them guidance.
Indeed on the contrary, Quran is rife with passages where Muhammad did attempt to warn/guide kafirs (who rejected him). So to whom he will be a guide and to whom he will not be?
written by Ramkrishna , March 15, 2012
QUOTE : "The Queen approves all laws in England
The parliament approves all laws in England
Both statements are true and not contradictory"
I say: I agree that they do not contradict. We have an explaination for it. But your analogy is a bit wrong. A better analogy will be:
1. Queen approves all the laws in England.
2. Queen never approves any law in England.
This surely contradicts. Similarly,
1. Muhammad is a guide to all.
2. Guiding is not the duty of Muhammad.
is contradictory.
Further, does posting some apparent contadictions somehow prove that the contradiction under discussion is also apparent?
The parliament approves all laws in England
Both statements are true and not contradictory"
I say: I agree that they do not contradict. We have an explaination for it. But your analogy is a bit wrong. A better analogy will be:
1. Queen approves all the laws in England.
2. Queen never approves any law in England.
This surely contradicts. Similarly,
1. Muhammad is a guide to all.
2. Guiding is not the duty of Muhammad.
is contradictory.
Further, does posting some apparent contadictions somehow prove that the contradiction under discussion is also apparent?
written by duh_swami , March 15, 2012
You write "According to Muslims the original, one and only Quran resides in Heaven with Allah." This should not be basis of your logic.
And then, my basis of logic should be what RW?
Yes indeed RW, there was some frustration about the sheer number of Wilson posts, that I noted on several occasions, because your Islam is not the Islam that Islam-Watch was created to watch...So most of your comments were only distractions from the 'other Islam'...But in your defense, you may be deluded in your beliefs, in my opinion, but you are always a gentleman, which is not the case with the buffoons currently representing the 'other Islam' here now...Except for Malman, they are heavy into hadis and sharia...I think they could use your guidence along those lines...Anyway Reed, I'm happy you are still alive...I wondered for a while...
And then, my basis of logic should be what RW?
Yes indeed RW, there was some frustration about the sheer number of Wilson posts, that I noted on several occasions, because your Islam is not the Islam that Islam-Watch was created to watch...So most of your comments were only distractions from the 'other Islam'...But in your defense, you may be deluded in your beliefs, in my opinion, but you are always a gentleman, which is not the case with the buffoons currently representing the 'other Islam' here now...Except for Malman, they are heavy into hadis and sharia...I think they could use your guidence along those lines...Anyway Reed, I'm happy you are still alive...I wondered for a while...
written by Muslim & Proud , March 15, 2012
The fact of the matter is this:
All guidance is from allah (the exalted)
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is a guide, by the will of Allah (the exalted) and through the guidance of Allah (the exalted).
None of the verses you quoted prove in any way that there is a contradiciton:
2:272, 13:7 & 28:56 are evidence that Allah (the exalted) is THE Guide - all guidance is from Allah (the exalted)
The remaining verses are evidence that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was sent by Allah (the exalted) to guide the people (with guidance from Allah (the exalted))
Think of it like this:
A man who is deaf is being guided by a person who knows sign language. They are both lost. A third person is available to help and can guige the one who knows sign language, in order to guide the deaf person.
The source of guidance is the person who is helping the deaf person and his guide.
2 people are in this scenario are the guide. One is the man who is guiding the deaf person.........following the guidance received from the person guiding the 'guide' to the deaf person.
It's as simple as that.
All guidance is from allah (the exalted)
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is a guide, by the will of Allah (the exalted) and through the guidance of Allah (the exalted).
None of the verses you quoted prove in any way that there is a contradiciton:
2:272, 13:7 & 28:56 are evidence that Allah (the exalted) is THE Guide - all guidance is from Allah (the exalted)
The remaining verses are evidence that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was sent by Allah (the exalted) to guide the people (with guidance from Allah (the exalted))
Think of it like this:
A man who is deaf is being guided by a person who knows sign language. They are both lost. A third person is available to help and can guige the one who knows sign language, in order to guide the deaf person.
The source of guidance is the person who is helping the deaf person and his guide.
2 people are in this scenario are the guide. One is the man who is guiding the deaf person.........following the guidance received from the person guiding the 'guide' to the deaf person.
It's as simple as that.
written by RW , March 15, 2012
Thanks.You ask "And then, my basis of logic should be what RW?
Muslims, the so called Muslims, have variety of belief. We, you and me, agreed several times that Quran is the chief source of Islam. You can very well cite from it. Your argument would be strong.
There are around 160 places in Quran where Quran as book is discussed. I restrict to following two:
َالْكِتَابِ الْمُبِينِ ﴿٢﴾ إِنَّا جَعَلْنَاهُ قُرْآنًا عَرَبِيًّا لَّعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ ﴿٣﴾ وَإِنَّهُ فِي أُمِّ الْكِتَابِ لَدَيْنَا لَعَلِيٌّ حَكِيمٌ
"By the clear Book, Indeed, We have made it an Arabic Qur'an that you might understand. And indeed it is, in the Mother of the Book with Us, exalted and full of wisdom".43:2-4
فَلَا أُقْسِمُ بِمَوَاقِعِ النُّجُومِ ﴿٧٥﴾ وَإِنَّهُ لَقَسَمٌ لَّوْ تَعْلَمُونَ عَظِيمٌ
ِنَّهُ لَقُرْآنٌ كَرِيمٌ ﴿٧٧﴾ فِي كِتَابٍ مَّكْنُونٍ ﴿٧٨﴾ لَّا يَمَسُّهُ إِلَّا الْمُطَهَّرُونَ
"Indeed, this is an honorable Quran preserved in a hidden Book which no one can touch it there except the purified ones". 56:77-79
You are correct to much extent that Quran is subset of a greater documentation preserved with Allah. But the source 'according to muslims' does not suit you.
(I feel like quoting remaining about 158):--
I am sorry I mentioned your old post. I didnt mean a complaint or for an explanation from you. I always enjoyed your wits.
"Anyway Reed, I'm happy you are still alive". But that should not mean I tease people.
Muslims, the so called Muslims, have variety of belief. We, you and me, agreed several times that Quran is the chief source of Islam. You can very well cite from it. Your argument would be strong.
There are around 160 places in Quran where Quran as book is discussed. I restrict to following two:
َالْكِتَابِ الْمُبِينِ ﴿٢﴾ إِنَّا جَعَلْنَاهُ قُرْآنًا عَرَبِيًّا لَّعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ ﴿٣﴾ وَإِنَّهُ فِي أُمِّ الْكِتَابِ لَدَيْنَا لَعَلِيٌّ حَكِيمٌ
"By the clear Book, Indeed, We have made it an Arabic Qur'an that you might understand. And indeed it is, in the Mother of the Book with Us, exalted and full of wisdom".43:2-4
فَلَا أُقْسِمُ بِمَوَاقِعِ النُّجُومِ ﴿٧٥﴾ وَإِنَّهُ لَقَسَمٌ لَّوْ تَعْلَمُونَ عَظِيمٌ
ِنَّهُ لَقُرْآنٌ كَرِيمٌ ﴿٧٧﴾ فِي كِتَابٍ مَّكْنُونٍ ﴿٧٨﴾ لَّا يَمَسُّهُ إِلَّا الْمُطَهَّرُونَ
"Indeed, this is an honorable Quran preserved in a hidden Book which no one can touch it there except the purified ones". 56:77-79
You are correct to much extent that Quran is subset of a greater documentation preserved with Allah. But the source 'according to muslims' does not suit you.
(I feel like quoting remaining about 158):--
I am sorry I mentioned your old post. I didnt mean a complaint or for an explanation from you. I always enjoyed your wits.
"Anyway Reed, I'm happy you are still alive". But that should not mean I tease people.
written by duh_swami , March 15, 2012
Well, you do know RW that I put no stock or faith in anything the Quran says...I am much more interested in Muslim behavior that is shaped by it...
That the original Quran resides with Allah, is not my idea...It is the idea of many of your Muslim semi-brothers...
"By the clear Book, Indeed, We have made it an Arabic Qur'an that you might understand. And indeed it is, in the Mother of the Book with Us, exalted and full of wisdom".43:2-4
The Quran is not all that clear...many people who do read and write Arabic do not come to the same conclusions about it...That particular verse is the book justifying the book...I don't let Christians get away with that about Bible, so I'm certainly not going to give the Quran a pass...
Quoting the other 158, all from the same self congratulatory source, does not strengthen the case...I can yell 'fake' 160 times...does that convince you of anything?
That the original Quran resides with Allah, is not my idea...It is the idea of many of your Muslim semi-brothers...
"By the clear Book, Indeed, We have made it an Arabic Qur'an that you might understand. And indeed it is, in the Mother of the Book with Us, exalted and full of wisdom".43:2-4
The Quran is not all that clear...many people who do read and write Arabic do not come to the same conclusions about it...That particular verse is the book justifying the book...I don't let Christians get away with that about Bible, so I'm certainly not going to give the Quran a pass...
Quoting the other 158, all from the same self congratulatory source, does not strengthen the case...I can yell 'fake' 160 times...does that convince you of anything?
written by Muslim & Proud , March 15, 2012
"I can yell 'fake' 160 times...does that convince you of anything?"
You can also yell ARF ARF all day...............know what I mean ;-)
You can also yell ARF ARF all day...............know what I mean ;-)
written by duh_swami , March 15, 2012
When it comes to your fake book Quran that oozes evil from it;s black pages, ARF ARF is good enough LOL LOL LOL
written by Muslim & Proud , March 15, 2012
Here is what you said Mr ARF ARF:
"I can yell 'fake' 160 times...does that convince you of anything?"
So you can continue to ARF ARF - it does not convince us of anything bickhead - lol lol lol
"I can yell 'fake' 160 times...does that convince you of anything?"
So you can continue to ARF ARF - it does not convince us of anything bickhead - lol lol lol
written by duh_swami , March 15, 2012
So you can continue to ARF ARF - it does not convince us of anything bickhead - lol lol lol
Who is us? Do you have a split personality? Are you schizophrenic? Arf arf is all you and your multiple personalities are worth, your fake religion is worth three arf arf arf...I like the way you keep reminding readers of that...Thanks..,.
Who is us? Do you have a split personality? Are you schizophrenic? Arf arf is all you and your multiple personalities are worth, your fake religion is worth three arf arf arf...I like the way you keep reminding readers of that...Thanks..,.
written by Muslim & Proud , March 15, 2012
You will like this one bickhead......
You said:
Here is the refutation - in your own words.......wait for it:
Now we are getting somewhere bickhead. You are starting to refute yourself in good style - well done..........................................................bickhead
LOL LOL LOL
You said:
your fake religion is worth three arf arf arf...
Here is the refutation - in your own words.......wait for it:
I can yell 'fake' 160 times...does that convince you of anything?
Now we are getting somewhere bickhead. You are starting to refute yourself in good style - well done..........................................................bickhead
LOL LOL LOL
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