Allah has a very idiotic concept, as some dishonest scientists make, of our Universe. Therefore, He couldn't be the Creator of the Universe as we know.
Blue Sky: Allah’s solid roof or an optical illusion?
The sea looks blue, but a sample of sea water collected is seen to be crystal-clear and colorless. Then why the sea looks blue? It is due to an optical illusion produced by the scattering of light. We know that the white light is composed of seven colors, namely violet, indigo, blue, green, yellow, orange, and red. Among these colors, red is of the longest and violet is of the shortest wave-length. When white light falls upon the sea water, the bluish part of the spectrum, which is off highest energy, is scattered by water molecules of the sea at least 10,000 times more than the reddish part of the spectrum. So, the sea looks blue.
Similar is the case with the blue sky and the gas molecules of our atmosphere. Here also the bluish part of the spectrum is scattered many times more than the reddish part of the spectrum and this makes the sky look blue. But during the rising and setting of the sun, bluish portion is scatters away from our vision, the reddish part reaches our eyes and this makes the sun red during rising and setting. As our earth and its atmosphere are spherical, the blue sky also appears to be spherical in shape.
So, the sky above the earth is an optical illusion (just like a rainbow) created by the scattering of light by the gas molecules of the atmosphere. If we go to a planet that does not have an atmosphere, we shall not observe a sky there. The moon is a satellite of the earth that does not have an atmosphere. So, if we go to the moon, we shall not see a blue sky but deep darkness in every direction. But Allah is totally ignorant of these scientific facts and does not know that the blue sky over the earth is simply an optical illusion.
But had Allah been the creator of this Universe, He would not have said that the sky is a “solid roof” over the earth, which He has created and fixed in position without any pillar, with the help of His extraordinary miraculous power or “qudrah”. Had He been the creator of this Universe, He would not have said that on the Day of Last Judgment (qiamah), He would destroy this solid sky and the debris would fall on the earth. This single idiotic claim of Allah is more than sufficient to prove that (1) Allah is not the God and (2) He is not the creator of the Universe.
Another declaration of Allah makes one to believe that He is ignorant of the real nature of the sun and other stars in the sky. He says that, on the Day of Last Judgment, He will bring the sun very close to the earth and it will be only a mile away from the earth. So, it reflects Allah’s complete ignorance about what would happen if the sun comes so close to the earth. He does not know that, in such a case, the earth will evaporate instantly. Therefore, bringing the sun so close to the earth is impossible. All these utterances of Allah reflect that His wisdom is no better than that of an illiterate Arab Bedouin of 7th century. But unfortunately many Western scientists, being heavily bribed by the Saudi Arabia and other oil-rich countries of the Middle East, have started discovering science in that idiotic book of Allah, called the Koran. Allah the fool clearly does not even know the reality of the sun, but these treacherous scientists have started claiming that Allah has also mentioned the existence of "black holes" in the Universe.
According to the wisdom of Allah, the stars in the sky are nothing but lamps, which He has created to decorate the sky and to guide the sailors to navigate at night. So, for Allah, destroying a star is no more than putting out a lamp. But the said bribed cosmologists are trying to interlink such verses of the Koran as creation of extinguishing of stars and creation of black holes.
No mentioning of the Universe in the Koran
In fact, it seems that Allah does not know that there is such a thing, called the universe. There is not a single verse in the Koran that mentions the idea of the Universe. Everywhere, Allah says that He has created the heaven and the earth, or to be concise, He has created this earth and seven heavens. But those dishonest scientists equate heavens to the Universe. But they remain silent about Allah claim of creating “seven” heavens, given it is not possible to divide the universe into seven distinct compartment.
 Muhammad's Buraq for riding to heaven |
And as Allah created sky as a solid structure as the roof of the earth, hence all visible luminous objects, or heavenly bodies, must lie below this opaque sky. Therefore, this solid sky is the virtual boundary of the Islamic universe. What is the distance of this boundary from the earth? In this aspect, the Islamic scriptures say that, Allah has created seven heavens above this boundary (sky), and there He has built a heavenly Kaaba, just above the Kaaba at Mecca. So, if anyone drops a plumbing rope from the heavenly Kaaba, it would touch the mundane Kaaba at Mecca. It would be possible for a man to reach the heavens by climbing that rope, but it would take 700 years. So, to calculate the height of the solid roof, one has to calculate the height a man can climb a rope in 700 years.
It would be relevant to mention here that the Angel Zibrail (Gabriel) used to take nearly 12 hours to cover this distance. Whenever Allah wanted to reveal a new verse (or verses) of the holy Koran, Angel Zibrail used to leave heaven in the evening with the new message and reach the earth next morning. After communicating the new message to the Prophet, he used to leave the earth in the same morning and return to the heaven next evening. He also used to fly with his 100,000 wings to cover the distance.
It is now well known that the three quarters of our atmosphere lies within the troposphere, and the depth of this layer varies between 17 km at the equator and 7 km at the poles. The ozone layer, which absorbs ultraviolet energy from the Sun, is located primarily in the stratosphere, at altitudes of 15 to 35 km. The Kármán line, located within the thermosphere at an altitude of 100 km. So, at heights above 35 km, the atmosphere becomes so thin that it not possible for any object to fly. However, the very thin exosphere can extend from 500 up to 10,000 km above the surface of the earth.
It is interesting to note here that during his night journey to heaven, Prophet Muhammad used an animal, called Buraq, which is a bit bigger than a donkey but slightly smaller than mule and had two wings. So, it appears that the creature flew the Prophet to the heaven. The incident reflects Allah’s ignorance that nothing can fly with wings at a high altitude where the atmosphere is exceptionally thin. There is another problem too. If the sky is a solid structure, then how the Prophet on the back of Buraq could penetrate that solid sky to reach heaven and meet Allah? One must also wonder: How Prophet Muhammad and his buraq survived in such a rarified atmosphere or vacuum?
Similar are the problems with Angel Zibrail, who uses wings. How he could fly at such a high altitude with very thin or no air at all? How could he have been able to penetrate the solid sky while traveling between the heaven and earth? Question naturally arises: Did Allah create a secret hole for the convenience of Zibrail and did the Prophet utilize the same hole during his night journey to the heaven? Most astonishing is the fact that even so-called educated Muslims have continued believing in these cock and bull stories for centuries. Many believe that Muslims, who are trained from their childhood in the Koranic belief-system, gradually lose capabilities of logical thinking and judging things using their own intelligence and experience.
There is also another reason. Islam is a package and a Muslim has to believe in all its aspects. If a Muslim says, he does not believe in a particular aspect of Islam, he would immediately be declared an apostate that calls for a death penalty. So, Islam is a mousetrap. It has a wide-open entrance but no exits. Recently in Iran, Youcef Nadarkhani, a member of the Church of Iran ministry and pastor faces death penalty on charge of leaving Islam and converting to Christianity.[1]
Allah’s heaven or paradise
Allah’s heavens, as narrated in the Koran, is nothing but a residential complex to be used by blessed Muslims, primarily murderous Jihad, of Allah’s paradise as dwelling places. But those Western scientists (or cosmologists) shamelessly equate Allah’s 7 heavens as the Universe, but the will not explain how the Universe can be divided into 7 separate heavens.
Whatever those dishonest scientists makes Allah’s 7 heavens to be, they are nothing more than a 7-story residential complex or seven separate residential houses, which are basically Allah’s brothels for the enjoyment of blessed Muslims as I have elaborately in the article, Destination: Allah’s Brothel. And equating them with the Universe, as some Western scientists do and all Muslims readily believe, is idiotic in the least.
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References:
[1] http://theundergroundsite.com/index.php/2010/12/in-iran-a-christian-pastor-faces-death-sentence-for-apostasy-14762 also see http://www.faithfreedom.org/features/news/iran-christian-pastor-faces-death-penalty-for-apostasy/
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written by Reed Wilson. , November 06, 2011
Machmoed."It is interesting to note here that during his night journey to heaven, Prophet Muhammad used an animal, called Buraq".
Buraq means white in Persian. White horse does not figure in Quran. This beast creped into ahadis from its mother literature of Talmud, Bible, Hindu, Zoroastrian literature etc.
White was a symbol of purity and righteousness. The rider goes forth with a bow, a symbol of conquest. This rider went out conquering and to conquer, which is said of Christ in John 16:3, Revelation 3:21 and Revelation 5:5. There is only one other white horse singled out in Revelation, and it is the one upon which Jesus rides, 19:11. This rider and horse represent the going forth of the gospel.
If you open the Book of Revelation and simply begin reading it as an unfolding scenario, it goes something like this. There will be wars and famines and disease epidemics and heavenly signs that will alert the world to some sort of crisis. Then will come an Antichrist as he's called, or a political ruler, that will establish control over the whole earth. He'll be backed up with a religious ruler, who's called the false prophet. They together establish a unified social, economic and religious system that dominates the world. The only thing opposing them are the people of God and these two prophets, they're called the two witnesses, who appear in Jerusalem, and begin to speak against this power. The rest of the book, really the last half of the book is about the overthrow of this system. Finally, Jesus Christ returns as a warrior on a white horse and sets up the kingdom of God.
The head of the WH is shown in the painting is pretty girl resembling Miranda Kerr. Your diagnosis of Pegasus is right. This, too, is pre Islam. In 17:1 there is no animal altogether.
Buraq means white in Persian. White horse does not figure in Quran. This beast creped into ahadis from its mother literature of Talmud, Bible, Hindu, Zoroastrian literature etc.
White was a symbol of purity and righteousness. The rider goes forth with a bow, a symbol of conquest. This rider went out conquering and to conquer, which is said of Christ in John 16:3, Revelation 3:21 and Revelation 5:5. There is only one other white horse singled out in Revelation, and it is the one upon which Jesus rides, 19:11. This rider and horse represent the going forth of the gospel.
If you open the Book of Revelation and simply begin reading it as an unfolding scenario, it goes something like this. There will be wars and famines and disease epidemics and heavenly signs that will alert the world to some sort of crisis. Then will come an Antichrist as he's called, or a political ruler, that will establish control over the whole earth. He'll be backed up with a religious ruler, who's called the false prophet. They together establish a unified social, economic and religious system that dominates the world. The only thing opposing them are the people of God and these two prophets, they're called the two witnesses, who appear in Jerusalem, and begin to speak against this power. The rest of the book, really the last half of the book is about the overthrow of this system. Finally, Jesus Christ returns as a warrior on a white horse and sets up the kingdom of God.
The head of the WH is shown in the painting is pretty girl resembling Miranda Kerr. Your diagnosis of Pegasus is right. This, too, is pre Islam. In 17:1 there is no animal altogether.
written by duh_swami , November 06, 2011
According to Jung, 'there are forces in the universe that act just like the gods are supposed to act'...But none of them are named Allah, and none of them should be worshipped...
Allah is a helpless god...According to the story, he created all universes, he created our solar system and the sky, he created the Earth and all life...Then he became an invalid...helpless...no longer mighty...Much of the Quran is about fighting in Allah's causes...Why is that? Because Allah is an invalid, he can't do much of anything for himself so he want's his sub miters to do his fighting for him......He did write a book once, but what has he done lately? He set the 'Pen of Destiny' busy writing the future as predestination, and then fell out, instructing men (Muslims) to do his dirty work for him, while he luxuriated in the brothel...Allah is not a very good god...He needs too much help, he can barely get out of bed without assistance of numerous virgins, he needs excessive amounts of adoration and prayers to keep him artificially pumped up, or he gets cranky...Allah is an adoration addict it would seem, and like all addicts he needs more and more...If he doesn't get it, he's like a vampire who ran out of blood...Drac'ullah...Yes friends, the fact that Allah is a helpless invalid with addictions, is proof that he is not really God, and actually did not create the universes...
Allah is a helpless god...According to the story, he created all universes, he created our solar system and the sky, he created the Earth and all life...Then he became an invalid...helpless...no longer mighty...Much of the Quran is about fighting in Allah's causes...Why is that? Because Allah is an invalid, he can't do much of anything for himself so he want's his sub miters to do his fighting for him......He did write a book once, but what has he done lately? He set the 'Pen of Destiny' busy writing the future as predestination, and then fell out, instructing men (Muslims) to do his dirty work for him, while he luxuriated in the brothel...Allah is not a very good god...He needs too much help, he can barely get out of bed without assistance of numerous virgins, he needs excessive amounts of adoration and prayers to keep him artificially pumped up, or he gets cranky...Allah is an adoration addict it would seem, and like all addicts he needs more and more...If he doesn't get it, he's like a vampire who ran out of blood...Drac'ullah...Yes friends, the fact that Allah is a helpless invalid with addictions, is proof that he is not really God, and actually did not create the universes...
written by Dr Radhasyam Brahmachari , November 06, 2011
Allah is more or less like a human being but 60 cubits tall (Shahi Muslim-6801). Allah does not have a wife (Koran (6.10) and hence He is a male. But He does not go to a Woman or a divine damsels or the houris. So, Allah never put his male organ to uses. We know that if a man does not use any of his organs, it becomes invalid. So, due non-use of his male organ for past thousands of years, it is most likely that, Allah has become impotent. But if Allah masturbates regularly, that is a separate question.
written by Brown Superman , November 06, 2011
Allah is certainly not the creator of the Universe. That is because Mohammad created Allah.
When this muslim Allah was created, the Universe already existed, unless we are referring to the Moon God, Sin @ Al-Lah (the father of his 3 daughters Al-Lat, Manat and Al-Uzza). A Moon God creating the Universe? That is quality CRAP too!
When this muslim Allah was created, the Universe already existed, unless we are referring to the Moon God, Sin @ Al-Lah (the father of his 3 daughters Al-Lat, Manat and Al-Uzza). A Moon God creating the Universe? That is quality CRAP too!
written by Reed Wilson. , November 06, 2011
Blue sky is an optic illusion. There is no mention of universe in Quran. Therefore Allah is not creator of universe. It is strange logic.
Quran doesnt say that the sky is blue.
Quran has revealed absolute facts about Universe in its true perspective.
"Who created the seven skies one above the other. Do you see any disproportion in the creations of Ar-Rahman? Turn your eyes again. Do you see any fissures? Turn your eyes again and again. Your gaze turns back dazed and tired. 67:3-4
"Do you not see how God has fashioned seven skies one above the other, And has placed the moon therein, an illumination, and has placed the sun, a lighted lamp? 71:15-16
Surrah An-Naba'-THE ANNOUNCEMENT-Verse:12-13 &17
And over your head, in the vast open space, We have distributed celestial bodies which are firm and stable. 78:12
Amongst these look at the brightly burning lamp and see how We have made it a simultaneous source of light and heat. 78:13
"When you see how wonderfully Our Laws operate in the outer universe, you should understand that Our Law of Mukafat is similarly functioning in your world. Therefore It is absolutely certain that the Revolution that will sift falsehood from truth, is bound to happen. Consider it to be the day for harvesting the crop which your deeds had sown. Just like how the time for the ripening of a crop is certain and determined, the time of this Revolution is also fixed. It will occur when its predestined time comes. 78:17
"Now who should tell them that The God who in order to provide you natural light has in some parts in the sky placed constellations of heavenly bodies which look like chandeliers of shining stars; and at another place put a candle in the shape of sun; and the light-reflecting moon at yet another; is the same God who has provided Wahi for the guidance of human intellect and wisdom. 25:61
"And that God has made arrangements in the outer universe that night and day succeed each other, and that light continues to follow darkness. Whoever wants to follow the right path in the light of Wahi should be able to do so and thus receive full reward for his efforts and deeds. 25:62
Also ponder how the sun is moving unhampered in its course. All this is happening according to measures determined and set by the One Who is Almighty and all-knowing. All His Laws are based on knowledge. 36:38
And see the moon for which We have determined various stages. (It appears like a beautiful crescent and then gradually becomes the full moon, after which it starts waning till it becomes like an old date stalk, dried up and curved.) 36:39
Contd.
Quran doesnt say that the sky is blue.
Quran has revealed absolute facts about Universe in its true perspective.
"Who created the seven skies one above the other. Do you see any disproportion in the creations of Ar-Rahman? Turn your eyes again. Do you see any fissures? Turn your eyes again and again. Your gaze turns back dazed and tired. 67:3-4
"Do you not see how God has fashioned seven skies one above the other, And has placed the moon therein, an illumination, and has placed the sun, a lighted lamp? 71:15-16
Surrah An-Naba'-THE ANNOUNCEMENT-Verse:12-13 &17
And over your head, in the vast open space, We have distributed celestial bodies which are firm and stable. 78:12
Amongst these look at the brightly burning lamp and see how We have made it a simultaneous source of light and heat. 78:13
"When you see how wonderfully Our Laws operate in the outer universe, you should understand that Our Law of Mukafat is similarly functioning in your world. Therefore It is absolutely certain that the Revolution that will sift falsehood from truth, is bound to happen. Consider it to be the day for harvesting the crop which your deeds had sown. Just like how the time for the ripening of a crop is certain and determined, the time of this Revolution is also fixed. It will occur when its predestined time comes. 78:17
"Now who should tell them that The God who in order to provide you natural light has in some parts in the sky placed constellations of heavenly bodies which look like chandeliers of shining stars; and at another place put a candle in the shape of sun; and the light-reflecting moon at yet another; is the same God who has provided Wahi for the guidance of human intellect and wisdom. 25:61
"And that God has made arrangements in the outer universe that night and day succeed each other, and that light continues to follow darkness. Whoever wants to follow the right path in the light of Wahi should be able to do so and thus receive full reward for his efforts and deeds. 25:62
Also ponder how the sun is moving unhampered in its course. All this is happening according to measures determined and set by the One Who is Almighty and all-knowing. All His Laws are based on knowledge. 36:38
And see the moon for which We have determined various stages. (It appears like a beautiful crescent and then gradually becomes the full moon, after which it starts waning till it becomes like an old date stalk, dried up and curved.) 36:39
Contd.
written by duh_swami , November 06, 2011
Also ponder how the sun is moving unhampered in its course.
Since we know that the sun does not move independently, it cannot be moving in a 'course'...Explain where the sun is going when it moves...
All Quran cosmos is simple minded people trying to explain what they don't understand...
Since we know that the sun does not move independently, it cannot be moving in a 'course'...Explain where the sun is going when it moves...
All Quran cosmos is simple minded people trying to explain what they don't understand...
written by Tim Halley , November 06, 2011
Reed Wilson,
It is nice to unravel from Quran the motion of the moon and Sun. Why is Allah silent on earth's orbital motion around the Sun? To a layman, the Sun and the moon are seen moving in a fixed orbit. Any verse to show the motion of earth?
It is nice to unravel from Quran the motion of the moon and Sun. Why is Allah silent on earth's orbital motion around the Sun? To a layman, the Sun and the moon are seen moving in a fixed orbit. Any verse to show the motion of earth?
written by balam , November 06, 2011
An excellent article by the learned doctor .Mohammad was actually riding his cousin Umm Hani who had make up on her face and her backside was like a mule .With every stroke into her,he felt into next heaven ,till the seventh ,when he reached the climax and in the seventh heaven.The Anti-Climax was when he was shown the hell and introduced to his final destination.It is all cock and bull story to cover up his steamy night with Umm Hani.To satisfy his friends as to where he was all night,he came with the Verse 17:1 and confirmed by Abu Bakr.He was rewarded with the Title SIDDIQUE which means TRUTHFUL.Although ,he was just the opposite but that is ISLAM.
written by Archpagan , November 06, 2011
Allah is a cruel God, like any adult male deprived of sex, because He has been deprived of His 'Allhi'. He is envious of His believers too, because after allotting 72 houris each, He has no houris for Himself. So, He is mercilessly killing the believers in Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan etc.
written by Archpagan , November 06, 2011
After taking break for some time, I feel, you have gained some energy. There is no science in the verses you have posted above. At best, those are some poetic imaginations, stolen from pre-Islamic Arab literature. Pagan Arabs were more cultured and civilized than present day Muslims.
Spirituality is the science of the inner self. Just as there can be no limit to understanding the physical world or physical science, there can be no limit to know the inner self. So, I advise you and your fellow Muslims to look beyond the Koran.
Spirituality is the science of the inner self. Just as there can be no limit to understanding the physical world or physical science, there can be no limit to know the inner self. So, I advise you and your fellow Muslims to look beyond the Koran.
written by THe Great Buana , November 07, 2011
I can only agree with Archpagan. We can find the idea of many heavens in the bible as well and even that of seven or eight heavens. In 2. Corinthians Paul explained how he entered the 3rd heaven and there are many apokryhic writings with similar accounts of socalled revealations. In general, seaven heaens in ancient times referred to the known five planets, moon and sun which were all supposed to orbit earth on fixed routes, a thought that also can be found in the quran. Anyway, heavens do not have anything in common or to do with the strata of our atmosphere. Moreover, it is only a convention and definition that we are talking about 7 strata. If we want we could establish a different classification.
written by duh_swami , November 07, 2011
All these 'heavens' have to do with post life experiences...Where do you go after you die? Well according to that, you go to whichever heaven you qualify for...Depraved despots, murderers, criminals, and evil people, go to the lower numbered heaven which is populated by dead humans who are similar in thought and behavior...The more spiritually refined the dead human, the higher the heaven number...This has been defined as 'zones girdling Earth', and there are actually 72 of them, because of sub heavens...According to the Egyptian Book of the Dead' there are gateways to go through from one heaven to another, they call these pylons, as I remember...'The Buddhist Book of the Dead'
, calls them bardo's...If the dead human is not qualified, he will not pass the pylons or bardo's...
into a more refined heaven...
If the dead human reincarnates, he will bring with him the qualities of the heaven he was residing in...According to that, it is the reason that some people are born to evil, and some are near saints...Do these heavens really exist? I don't know, but if I die, I will post a comment about which heaven I am in...Postcards from level 5...
, calls them bardo's...If the dead human is not qualified, he will not pass the pylons or bardo's...
into a more refined heaven...
If the dead human reincarnates, he will bring with him the qualities of the heaven he was residing in...According to that, it is the reason that some people are born to evil, and some are near saints...Do these heavens really exist? I don't know, but if I die, I will post a comment about which heaven I am in...Postcards from level 5...
written by Walter Sieruk , November 07, 2011
Muhammad taught that "stars were crecatd by Allah as missles to throw at devils" This was the man who presented the information that eventually went into the composition of that "scientific" Quran. This Muhammad guy is the one that Muslims think was such a wise man.
[Source THE ISLAMIC INVASION by Robert Morey]
[Source THE ISLAMIC INVASION by Robert Morey]
written by Walter Sieruk , November 07, 2011
When Brahmachari mentioned about his other article under the title "Destination: Allah's Brothel" This brings to mind that the religion of Islam that teaches when the jihadist dies in a specificway then he will then have wsome kind of divinely sanction brothel with 72 virgins for his own use. In infact not only false teaching but outright demonic deception. Which is falsly presented as divine truth. Moreover, this delusion is in reality a fusion of Arabian and Zoroastrian mythology masquerading as truth from God. Furthermore this falsehood and lie that the imams brainwash young people by propaganda of a story they proclaim of a paradise with 72 virgins for the jihadist as taught in the Quran was predicted and warned about the Bible which reads "For the time will come when theywill not stand wholesome teaching, but will follow their own fancy and gather a crowd of teachers to tickle their ears. they will stop their ears to the truth and turn to mythology."
Second Timothy 4:3,4. [NEB]
Second Timothy 4:3,4. [NEB]
written by Reed Wilson. , November 08, 2011
THe Great Buana"Anyway, heavens do not have anything in common or to do with the strata of our atmosphere."
Thanks. It is not heavens in Quran. It is skies or samawat in Arabic which 'do not have anything in common or to do with the strata of our atmosphere'.
Thanks. It is not heavens in Quran. It is skies or samawat in Arabic which 'do not have anything in common or to do with the strata of our atmosphere'.
written by Tim Halley , November 08, 2011
Reed, you skipped my question (see above). Why Allah did not mention about its orbital motion around the Sun?
written by gomes , November 08, 2011
dear sisters and brothers
i congratulate your endeuvour to work against islam. just one kind request- please read the full story and then tell the true. do you think it is right to give half information and mis-guide millions? do you think if there is any god or any destony at the end will have any right to show any mercy on you after what you have been doing? keep the world in peace - try to help each other- dont say lie- dont make confusion if you dont know- dont give half and mis-leading information about any religion- all of theose are great for human- if you can tell against bad practice of human- such as telling lie- creating confuction- creatign conflict. i know this appeal may have nothing to change you sisters and brothers...but just a human- i can request you each individual to look deep at your heart and your parents- who brought you in the world- and your kids - whom you are bringing in the world- please help the world to live in peace...
god bless you
i congratulate your endeuvour to work against islam. just one kind request- please read the full story and then tell the true. do you think it is right to give half information and mis-guide millions? do you think if there is any god or any destony at the end will have any right to show any mercy on you after what you have been doing? keep the world in peace - try to help each other- dont say lie- dont make confusion if you dont know- dont give half and mis-leading information about any religion- all of theose are great for human- if you can tell against bad practice of human- such as telling lie- creating confuction- creatign conflict. i know this appeal may have nothing to change you sisters and brothers...but just a human- i can request you each individual to look deep at your heart and your parents- who brought you in the world- and your kids - whom you are bringing in the world- please help the world to live in peace...
god bless you
written by bundypig , November 09, 2011
tell us the truth about islam? Why are so many murders of innocent people and muslims alike committed each day by this ideology?
Why are parents and children blown up by murderers in the name of muhammad and his server, allah?
Why are there over 150 verses in the koran alone telling the loyal followers to kill or mutilate the people that wont convert?
Why are hadith, a collection of life stories, showing the horror inflicted by muhammad to fellow human beings?
You need to find the truth, then run like hell away from this terror you call islam.
Why are parents and children blown up by murderers in the name of muhammad and his server, allah?
Why are there over 150 verses in the koran alone telling the loyal followers to kill or mutilate the people that wont convert?
Why are hadith, a collection of life stories, showing the horror inflicted by muhammad to fellow human beings?
You need to find the truth, then run like hell away from this terror you call islam.
written by Machmoed , November 09, 2011
just one kind request- please read the full story and then tell the true. do you think it is right to give half information and mis-guide millions?
I think you right but you have to tell your brothers that since they misguide millions. Did you read the whole sira? did you read the ahadith? I don't think so. If you did, you would stand against it since your prophet is made a molestor, a murderer, a looter etc. Who wrote these stories about him.....your brothers, muslims. Why do you think some muslims here like Reed threw out the ahadith? because they are garbage and every sain individual would not believe such crap. At the same time if they are true like you might believe, it shows your mentality.
I think you right but you have to tell your brothers that since they misguide millions. Did you read the whole sira? did you read the ahadith? I don't think so. If you did, you would stand against it since your prophet is made a molestor, a murderer, a looter etc. Who wrote these stories about him.....your brothers, muslims. Why do you think some muslims here like Reed threw out the ahadith? because they are garbage and every sain individual would not believe such crap. At the same time if they are true like you might believe, it shows your mentality.
written by Reed Wilson , November 10, 2011
Tim Halley. " Reed, you skipped my question (see above). Why Allah did not mention about its orbital motion around the Sun?
Is your question about orbital or axial movement of earth? What if Quran does not mention rotation/revolution? May be there was no occasion for that. Will you accept him creator?
I promise to look for in Quran on knowing your exact question.
Is your question about orbital or axial movement of earth? What if Quran does not mention rotation/revolution? May be there was no occasion for that. Will you accept him creator?
I promise to look for in Quran on knowing your exact question.
written by Dwito , November 10, 2011
May be there was no occasion for that.
You are right Reed, axial motion was not required for the pillaging purposes. Besides the inadvertent questions would be too tough for the apostle, and wastage of time as well.
Will you accept him creator?
Pl. let us clearly know his identity first!
You are right Reed, axial motion was not required for the pillaging purposes. Besides the inadvertent questions would be too tough for the apostle, and wastage of time as well.
Will you accept him creator?
Pl. let us clearly know his identity first!
written by Tim Halley , November 10, 2011
A child, who does not know about the solar system, will tell that both Sun and the moon move in the sky. This is what every layman perceives when he gazes at the sky. When Muhammad can talk about the changes in the shape of the moon, why cannot he utter a verse on a simple fact that earth orbited around the Sun?
Just like the Biblical God Muhammad too believed in geocentric theory. He therefore did not mention anything about the motion of the earth.
Just like the Biblical God Muhammad too believed in geocentric theory. He therefore did not mention anything about the motion of the earth.
written by lw1 , November 10, 2011
On 6 November you wrote to Dr Brahmchari, '.......There is no mention of universe in Quran ..........'
Below, in Surah-An-Naba--The Announcement, your first line in 78.17 is 'When you see how wonderfully Our Laws operate in the outer universe .......'
The universe is also mentioned in 25.62, two below 78.17.
Why do you say universe is not mentioned in Quran?
Below, in Surah-An-Naba--The Announcement, your first line in 78.17 is 'When you see how wonderfully Our Laws operate in the outer universe .......'
The universe is also mentioned in 25.62, two below 78.17.
Why do you say universe is not mentioned in Quran?
written by lw1 , November 10, 2011
Dr Brahmchari ------- 100%
Allah ------------ 0%
Allah ------------ 0%
written by Dr Radhasyam Brahmachari , November 10, 2011
All Muslims are basically liars. A commentator above says that the verses (78.15) and (25.60) of the Koran mentions universe. I present below the verses, translated by Pickthall, for the readers two discover the word universe in these two verses.
Lo! the Day of Decision is a fixed time, (78.17))
And He it is Who hath appointed night and day in succession, for him who desireth to remember, or desireth thankfulness. (25.620
Lo! the Day of Decision is a fixed time, (78.17))
And He it is Who hath appointed night and day in succession, for him who desireth to remember, or desireth thankfulness. (25.620
written by Machmoed , November 11, 2011
All Muslims are basically liars. A commentator above says that the verses (78.15) and (25.60) of the Koran mentions universe.
Confused? the commentator is commenting on RW who posted a translation and he used the word universe while at the same time he sais qur'an doesn't mention universe. It wasn't an attack on you Brachmahari.
Confused? the commentator is commenting on RW who posted a translation and he used the word universe while at the same time he sais qur'an doesn't mention universe. It wasn't an attack on you Brachmahari.
written by Reed Wilson. , November 11, 2011
lw1 " On 6 November you wrote to Dr Brahmchari, '.......There is no mention of universe in Quran ".
I was quoting from the article for Dr.'chari. The quotation followed:
Blue sky is an optic illusion. There is no mention of universe in Quran. Therefore Allah is not creator of universe. It is strange logic.
Quran doesnt say that the sky is blue.
Quran has revealed absolute facts about Universe in its true perspective.
"Who created the seven skies one above the other. Do you see any disproportion in the creations of Ar-Rahman? Turn your eyes again. Do you see any fissures? Turn your eyes again and again. Your gaze turns back dazed and tired. 67:3-4
"Do you not see how God has fashioned seven skies one above the other, And has placed the moon therein, an illumination, and has placed the sun, a lighted lamp? 71:15-16
Surrah An-Naba'-THE ANNOUNCEMENT-Verse:12-13 &17
And over your head, in the vast open space, We have distributed celestial bodies which are firm and stable. 78:12
Amongst these look at the brightly burning lamp and see how We have made it a simultaneous source of light and heat. 78:13
"When you see how wonderfully Our Laws operate in the outer universe, you should understand that Our Law of Mukafat is similarly functioning in your world. Therefore It is absolutely certain that the Revolution that will sift falsehood from truth, is bound to happen. Consider it to be the day for harvesting the crop which your deeds had sown. Just like how the time for the ripening of a crop is certain and determined, the time of this Revolution is also fixed. It will occur when its predestined time comes. 78:17
"Now who should tell them that The God who in order to provide you natural light has in some parts in the sky placed constellations of heavenly bodies which look like chandeliers of shining stars; and at another place put a candle in the shape of sun; and the light-reflecting moon at yet another; is the same God who has provided Wahi for the guidance of human intellect and wisdom. 25:61
"And that God has made arrangements in the outer universe that night and day succeed each other, and that light continues to follow darkness. Whoever wants to follow the right path in the light of Wahi should be able to do so and thus receive full reward for his efforts and deeds. 25:62
Also ponder how the sun is moving unhampered in its course. All this is happening according to measures determined and set by the One Who is Almighty and all-knowing. All His Laws are based on knowledge. 36:38
"And see the moon for which We have determined various stages." 36:39 It appears like a beautiful crescent and then gradually becomes the full moon, after which it starts waning till it becomes like an old date stalk, dried up and curved.
Regret inconvenience due to my mistake of not putting hooks. That is why, perhaps, Dr. Brahmchari did not respond.
I was quoting from the article for Dr.'chari. The quotation followed:
Blue sky is an optic illusion. There is no mention of universe in Quran. Therefore Allah is not creator of universe. It is strange logic.
Quran doesnt say that the sky is blue.
Quran has revealed absolute facts about Universe in its true perspective.
"Who created the seven skies one above the other. Do you see any disproportion in the creations of Ar-Rahman? Turn your eyes again. Do you see any fissures? Turn your eyes again and again. Your gaze turns back dazed and tired. 67:3-4
"Do you not see how God has fashioned seven skies one above the other, And has placed the moon therein, an illumination, and has placed the sun, a lighted lamp? 71:15-16
Surrah An-Naba'-THE ANNOUNCEMENT-Verse:12-13 &17
And over your head, in the vast open space, We have distributed celestial bodies which are firm and stable. 78:12
Amongst these look at the brightly burning lamp and see how We have made it a simultaneous source of light and heat. 78:13
"When you see how wonderfully Our Laws operate in the outer universe, you should understand that Our Law of Mukafat is similarly functioning in your world. Therefore It is absolutely certain that the Revolution that will sift falsehood from truth, is bound to happen. Consider it to be the day for harvesting the crop which your deeds had sown. Just like how the time for the ripening of a crop is certain and determined, the time of this Revolution is also fixed. It will occur when its predestined time comes. 78:17
"Now who should tell them that The God who in order to provide you natural light has in some parts in the sky placed constellations of heavenly bodies which look like chandeliers of shining stars; and at another place put a candle in the shape of sun; and the light-reflecting moon at yet another; is the same God who has provided Wahi for the guidance of human intellect and wisdom. 25:61
"And that God has made arrangements in the outer universe that night and day succeed each other, and that light continues to follow darkness. Whoever wants to follow the right path in the light of Wahi should be able to do so and thus receive full reward for his efforts and deeds. 25:62
Also ponder how the sun is moving unhampered in its course. All this is happening according to measures determined and set by the One Who is Almighty and all-knowing. All His Laws are based on knowledge. 36:38
"And see the moon for which We have determined various stages." 36:39 It appears like a beautiful crescent and then gradually becomes the full moon, after which it starts waning till it becomes like an old date stalk, dried up and curved.
Regret inconvenience due to my mistake of not putting hooks. That is why, perhaps, Dr. Brahmchari did not respond.
written by Reed Wilson. , November 11, 2011
Dr Radhasyam Brahmachari. "All Muslims are basically liars. A commentator above says that the verses (78.15) and (25.60) of the Koran mentions universe."
RW may kindly be exempted. He did not write the citations.
RW may kindly be exempted. He did not write the citations.
written by Reed Wilson. , November 11, 2011
Tim Halley."A child, who does not know about the solar system, will tell that both Sun and the moon move in the sky. This is what every layman perceives when he gazes at the sky. When Muhammad can talk about the changes in the shape of the moon, why cannot he utter a verse on a simple fact that earth orbited around the Sun?
The child today knows so many things which I did not know in my boyhood. What is your question Sir?
The child today knows so many things which I did not know in my boyhood. What is your question Sir?
written by Cerebrum123 , November 11, 2011
The Bible doesn't teach a geocentric earth ,or a flat earth for that matter. Both are used as attacks against the validity of the Bible and both are false.People come up with these ideas by taking the Bible in a hyper literal way ,not in the way it was meant to be taken. The Bible has poetry ,prophecy ,history ,and much more.The trick is you have to read these things as they were meant to be read ie history as history ,poetry as poetry, etc. The Bible isn't a science textbook ,but when it touches on science it is entirely accurate. Here's a little link on geocentricity and the Bible. http://www.answersingenesis.or...eocentrism
written by Reed Wilson. , November 11, 2011
Clement. You write "People accused me of us Using IW for evangelism but you it is not easy to make a convert through an public debate such as IW."
RW is not among them. Why should one try to convert? Are you asked to do it? Is there any reward promised?
You write "These group are my inspiration o why I like to contribute to IW not for people like Reed Wilson, Du_Swami, Malem, Machmoed,who have harden their heart from hearing from the true God of this universe."
Logic please!
You write "It will take the grace of God for such people to understand the Gospel of Christ and be converted and saved. All the same I used their depraved human ideology and philosophy to present the Gospel in its pure form.
Where is the 'Gospel of Christ"? So many dawns passed, I am waiting. Is it with you; Gospel of Clement is Gospel of Christ. Seriously Clement, tell me.
"We don’t need animals sacrifices again Jesus has done it once and for all."
What is that then. Once he sacrificed means there is animal sacrifice in Christianity. I would say this allegation on Jesus. May be Jesus of hadis did that.
You say "The Bible says 1Co 2:9 “But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.” The joy of salvation alone is enough for the saints of God preach this good news of salvation to all mankind. Islam has no good news for Mankind."
Fine! Why joy of salvation alone is good news when there were no risks, fears, tests, trials and tribulations were not there? This Good News inter alia is 'plagiarized' in Quran:
"Do not be like those who maligned Moses, whilst God cleared him of what they alleged; and he was held in high esteem with God. O you who believe, obey the commands of God, and say straightforward things. He will straighten your affairs for you and forgive your sins; and he who obeys God and message will be great success. 33:69-71
Here find good news like 1Co 2:9:
وَمَا أُوتِيتُم مِّن شَيْءٍ فَمَتَاعُ الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَزِينَتُهَا ۚ وَمَا عِندَ اللَّـهِ خَيْرٌ وَأَبْقَىٰ ۚ أَفَلَا تَعْقِلُون
“And whatever you are given are only a provision of this world's life and its adornment, and whatever is with God is far better and lasting if you know” 28:60
Quran does not claim that is superior to previous scriptures like Torah, Gospel etc.
“Say: Then bring some other book from Allah which is a better guide than both of them, that I may follow it, if you are truthful.” 28:49
When in sight of God the message is same in scriptures, I do not relegate their importance.
RW is not among them. Why should one try to convert? Are you asked to do it? Is there any reward promised?
You write "These group are my inspiration o why I like to contribute to IW not for people like Reed Wilson, Du_Swami, Malem, Machmoed,who have harden their heart from hearing from the true God of this universe."
Logic please!
You write "It will take the grace of God for such people to understand the Gospel of Christ and be converted and saved. All the same I used their depraved human ideology and philosophy to present the Gospel in its pure form.
Where is the 'Gospel of Christ"? So many dawns passed, I am waiting. Is it with you; Gospel of Clement is Gospel of Christ. Seriously Clement, tell me.
"We don’t need animals sacrifices again Jesus has done it once and for all."
What is that then. Once he sacrificed means there is animal sacrifice in Christianity. I would say this allegation on Jesus. May be Jesus of hadis did that.
You say "The Bible says 1Co 2:9 “But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.” The joy of salvation alone is enough for the saints of God preach this good news of salvation to all mankind. Islam has no good news for Mankind."
Fine! Why joy of salvation alone is good news when there were no risks, fears, tests, trials and tribulations were not there? This Good News inter alia is 'plagiarized' in Quran:
"Do not be like those who maligned Moses, whilst God cleared him of what they alleged; and he was held in high esteem with God. O you who believe, obey the commands of God, and say straightforward things. He will straighten your affairs for you and forgive your sins; and he who obeys God and message will be great success. 33:69-71
Here find good news like 1Co 2:9:
وَمَا أُوتِيتُم مِّن شَيْءٍ فَمَتَاعُ الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَزِينَتُهَا ۚ وَمَا عِندَ اللَّـهِ خَيْرٌ وَأَبْقَىٰ ۚ أَفَلَا تَعْقِلُون
“And whatever you are given are only a provision of this world's life and its adornment, and whatever is with God is far better and lasting if you know” 28:60
Quran does not claim that is superior to previous scriptures like Torah, Gospel etc.
“Say: Then bring some other book from Allah which is a better guide than both of them, that I may follow it, if you are truthful.” 28:49
When in sight of God the message is same in scriptures, I do not relegate their importance.
written by Tim Halley , November 11, 2011
Do you mean to say you and Allah are required to take lessons from children?
You skipped it again by diverting the topic. You may bail out Allah by digging some verses from Quran---- which you are doing (I hope)
You skipped it again by diverting the topic. You may bail out Allah by digging some verses from Quran---- which you are doing (I hope)
written by Tim Halley , November 11, 2011
Reed, from my correspondence with you I have understood that you are an escapist. You dodge, divert topic, pick up a loose thread, and remain at large from answering critical questions. I have studied psychology n I can see the volcano going on in your mind in defending Allah's fallacy in Quran.
You will never be able to answer my questions related to earth, moon, and the Sun in Quran.
You will never be able to answer my questions related to earth, moon, and the Sun in Quran.
written by Archpagan , November 12, 2011
'When in sight of God the message is same in scriptures, I do not relegate their importance. ' and 'Quran does not claim that is superior to previous scriptures like Torah, Gospel etc.'
No Muslim believes that. You are vending rubbishes. If that was so, there would not have been Islam at all. Let aaki, Malem or Abdullah support you.
No Muslim believes that. You are vending rubbishes. If that was so, there would not have been Islam at all. Let aaki, Malem or Abdullah support you.
written by Cerebrum123 , November 12, 2011
@ Reed
Anyone who takes a serious look at these books will realize that the Quran doesn't even come close to having the same meaning as the other two. In fact the Quran is in exact opposition to what the Gospels and Torah teach in several places. One being rules for divorce. Mohammed said that a woman who divorces MUST be intimate with another man before making reconciliation with her previous husband ,the Bible calls this act an abomination.These things are NOT compatible and the message is NOT the same. I would hope you would come to understand this soon.
@ IW
Before 9/11 I never took a real look at Islam ,and had pretty much the idea that there was a few basically similar things taught like the golden rule ,but I was woefully mistaken. More people need to take a closer look and find out the truth. It's sad so few sites have the nerve to post the truth about Islam. I even went to a site sponsored by Islam to see if the things I was reading were true. The people there wouldn't deny the things I brought to them ,but just tried as Reed does to side step the issue
Anyone who takes a serious look at these books will realize that the Quran doesn't even come close to having the same meaning as the other two. In fact the Quran is in exact opposition to what the Gospels and Torah teach in several places. One being rules for divorce. Mohammed said that a woman who divorces MUST be intimate with another man before making reconciliation with her previous husband ,the Bible calls this act an abomination.These things are NOT compatible and the message is NOT the same. I would hope you would come to understand this soon.
@ IW
Before 9/11 I never took a real look at Islam ,and had pretty much the idea that there was a few basically similar things taught like the golden rule ,but I was woefully mistaken. More people need to take a closer look and find out the truth. It's sad so few sites have the nerve to post the truth about Islam. I even went to a site sponsored by Islam to see if the things I was reading were true. The people there wouldn't deny the things I brought to them ,but just tried as Reed does to side step the issue
written by Reed Wilson. , November 12, 2011
Archpagan. "No Muslim believes that. You are vending rubbishes. If that was so, there would not have been Islam at all. Let aaki, Malem or Abdullah support you."
I quoted from Quran:
قُلْ فَأْتُوا بِكِتَابٍ مِّنْ عِندِ اللَّـهِ هُوَ أَهْدَىٰ مِنْهُمَا أَتَّبِعْهُ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ
“Say: Then bring some other book from Allah which is a better guide than both of them, that I may follow it, if you are truthful.” 28:49
If 'no muslim believes that', I am not to make them believe. It is not vending. They can reject at their own risk and cost. Yet you call them muslims!!
If you read context, which I did not give for the sake of brevity, you would know that it relates to people rejecting scriptures like Torah/Gospel. I give here two episodes from Gospel.
Matt. 5:17"Don't ever think that I came to set aside Moses' Teachings or the Prophets. I didn't come to set them aside but to make them come true.
Matthew 15:1-9 "Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”
Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God, they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.
Archpagan Islam was there since beginning. Messengers were designated but few followed the message. The messengers were rather worshipped. Traditions took over as Jesus Christ rightly said.
I quoted from Quran:
قُلْ فَأْتُوا بِكِتَابٍ مِّنْ عِندِ اللَّـهِ هُوَ أَهْدَىٰ مِنْهُمَا أَتَّبِعْهُ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ
“Say: Then bring some other book from Allah which is a better guide than both of them, that I may follow it, if you are truthful.” 28:49
If 'no muslim believes that', I am not to make them believe. It is not vending. They can reject at their own risk and cost. Yet you call them muslims!!
If you read context, which I did not give for the sake of brevity, you would know that it relates to people rejecting scriptures like Torah/Gospel. I give here two episodes from Gospel.
Matt. 5:17"Don't ever think that I came to set aside Moses' Teachings or the Prophets. I didn't come to set them aside but to make them come true.
Matthew 15:1-9 "Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”
Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God, they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.
Archpagan Islam was there since beginning. Messengers were designated but few followed the message. The messengers were rather worshipped. Traditions took over as Jesus Christ rightly said.
written by Reed Wilson , November 12, 2011
Cerebrum123. "Anyone who takes a serious look at these books will realize that the Quran doesn't even come close to having the same meaning as the other two. In fact the Quran is in exact opposition to what the Gospels and Torah teach in several places."
Clement says that it is plagiarized Bible.
"One being rules for divorce. Mohammed said that a woman who divorces MUST be intimate with another man before making reconciliation with her previous husband."
It is not so in Quran.
"The Bible calls this act an abomination."
Quran did not mention The Bible's name is not mentioned in The Bible even.
"These things are NOT compatible and the message is NOT the same. I would hope you would come to understand this soon."
Bible, in its present shape and form, teaches monotheism, life after death, righteousness, accountability and reward. Thank you.
Clement says that it is plagiarized Bible.
"One being rules for divorce. Mohammed said that a woman who divorces MUST be intimate with another man before making reconciliation with her previous husband."
It is not so in Quran.
"The Bible calls this act an abomination."
Quran did not mention The Bible's name is not mentioned in The Bible even.
"These things are NOT compatible and the message is NOT the same. I would hope you would come to understand this soon."
Bible, in its present shape and form, teaches monotheism, life after death, righteousness, accountability and reward. Thank you.
written by Archpagan , November 13, 2011
Well, you are a sub-Prophet of Allah/Moha-mad/Koran. Is that OK?
written by Reed Wilson. , November 13, 2011
Archpagan. " Well, you are a sub-Prophet of Allah/Moha-mad/Koran. Is that OK?
I am a muslim and follow what is revealed to me. Read 10:15
وَإِذَا تُتْلَىٰ عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتُنَا بَيِّنَاتٍ ۙ قَالَ الَّذِينَ لَا يَرْجُونَ لِقَاءَنَا ائْتِ بِقُرْآنٍ غَيْرِ هَـٰذَا أَوْ بَدِّلْهُ ۚ قُلْ مَا يَكُونُ لِي أَنْ أُبَدِّلَهُ مِن تِلْقَاءِ نَفْسِي ۖ إِنْ أَتَّبِعُ إِلَّا مَا يُوحَىٰ إِلَيَّ ۖ إِنِّي أَخَافُ إِنْ عَصَيْتُ رَبِّي عَذَابَ يَوْمٍ عَظِيمٍ
Conveying Quran comes under following Quran.
I am a muslim and follow what is revealed to me. Read 10:15
وَإِذَا تُتْلَىٰ عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتُنَا بَيِّنَاتٍ ۙ قَالَ الَّذِينَ لَا يَرْجُونَ لِقَاءَنَا ائْتِ بِقُرْآنٍ غَيْرِ هَـٰذَا أَوْ بَدِّلْهُ ۚ قُلْ مَا يَكُونُ لِي أَنْ أُبَدِّلَهُ مِن تِلْقَاءِ نَفْسِي ۖ إِنْ أَتَّبِعُ إِلَّا مَا يُوحَىٰ إِلَيَّ ۖ إِنِّي أَخَافُ إِنْ عَصَيْتُ رَبِّي عَذَابَ يَوْمٍ عَظِيمٍ
Conveying Quran comes under following Quran.
written by duh_swami , November 13, 2011
Conveying Quran comes under following Quran.
Yes, and that is exactly the problem...Following Quran is following an evil trail...Conveying evil as a substitute for good, is an ...evil act...
Yes, and that is exactly the problem...Following Quran is following an evil trail...Conveying evil as a substitute for good, is an ...evil act...
written by Cerebrum123 , November 13, 2011
Here are the details of the point I was trying to make earlier.
The Quranic view
Sura (Chapter) 2:230 says:
And if the husband divorces his wife (for the third time), she shall not remain his lawful wife after this (absolute) divorce, unless she marries another husband and the second husband divorces her. (In that case) there is no harm if they [the first couple] remarry . . . . (Sayyid Abul A’La Maududi, The Meaning of the Qur’an, vol. 1, p. 165)
The Biblical View
Deuteronomy 24
1 If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, 2 and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man, 3 and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, or if he dies, 4 then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the LORD. Do not bring sin upon the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance.
As you can see these views are opposites ,they are incompatible. There are many instances like this in the Quran. These blaring differences show that they are NOT from the same source or equal in any way.
I do not know what your point about the Bible not calling itself the Bible has to do with anything. We call it the Bible now which is what is important when we talk about the issues contained within.
The Quranic view
Sura (Chapter) 2:230 says:
And if the husband divorces his wife (for the third time), she shall not remain his lawful wife after this (absolute) divorce, unless she marries another husband and the second husband divorces her. (In that case) there is no harm if they [the first couple] remarry . . . . (Sayyid Abul A’La Maududi, The Meaning of the Qur’an, vol. 1, p. 165)
The Biblical View
Deuteronomy 24
1 If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, 2 and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man, 3 and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, or if he dies, 4 then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the LORD. Do not bring sin upon the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance.
As you can see these views are opposites ,they are incompatible. There are many instances like this in the Quran. These blaring differences show that they are NOT from the same source or equal in any way.
I do not know what your point about the Bible not calling itself the Bible has to do with anything. We call it the Bible now which is what is important when we talk about the issues contained within.
written by duh_swami , November 13, 2011
As you can see these views are opposites ,they are incompatible.
They are incompatible in detail only, they are the same in that the woman/wife has no say in it...Can the wife give a certificate of divorce to her husband, and send him from the house? Can a wife in Islam say talaq three times and be divorced? Both religions are patriarchal where women always play second fiddle to the man...Eve was made subservient to Adam and that's the way it has always been...Always that is until woman decided that equality was better than servitude...
They are incompatible in detail only, they are the same in that the woman/wife has no say in it...Can the wife give a certificate of divorce to her husband, and send him from the house? Can a wife in Islam say talaq three times and be divorced? Both religions are patriarchal where women always play second fiddle to the man...Eve was made subservient to Adam and that's the way it has always been...Always that is until woman decided that equality was better than servitude...
written by Cerebrum123 , November 14, 2011
Duh Eve was not made subservient to Adam she was made as his companion. The Bible teaches that men and women are equals. When a man and woman marry in the Bible they are described as becoming "one flesh" this means that they are now a true part of each other ,and not one subservient to another. They are now one they were two incomplete halves. Now they find the kind of completeness that God wants us to have with Him. Both man and woman were created in the image of God ,and both have equal possibility of a relationship with Him. Men and women being equal is a spiritual thing. Men and women aren't equal in a physical capacity or there would only be one gender. Men and women have different roles ,but this does not negate their equality. Most cultures have been patriarchal ,yet you do not harp on them for that ,but praise them for other things. There were even a few women leaders in the OT Miriam although Moses was ranked higher was still a leader among the people. Deborah as well ,she was a Judge in Israel. This was the highest ranking office of that time(How is that playing second fiddle to a man?). There are many women in the Bible who did great things. Let's not forget Mary the mother of Jesus. She is described as "blessed among women" and "highly favored". This is a fallacy of equivocation. You equating Christianity and Judaism with Islam. The Bible says that husbands must love their wives as Christ as loved the Church. Also Jesus said that divorce for any reason other than unfaithfulness was wrong. Besides my main point was that the Quran was NOT authored by the same person as the Old and New Testaments.
written by duh_swami , November 14, 2011
Duh Eve was not made subservient to Adam she was made as his companion. The Bible teaches that men and women are equals.
Genisis 3:16 To the woman he said,
“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”
What part of 'rule over you', is it that you don't understand?...
You also failed to explain why the wife can't issue a certificate of divorce to her husband...
written by Reed Wilson , November 15, 2011
duh-swami. "Genisis 3:16 To the woman he said, “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children."
Not every woman bears a child. Which woman he is talking to? Who is he?
Not every woman bears a child. Which woman he is talking to? Who is he?
written by duh_swami , November 15, 2011
What woman he is talking to is a good question...Eve had not had any children up to that point, so how could she know what 'He' was talking about? How could she even know what a child was, since there were none at the time...Did she even understand the word 'pain'?
written by Cerebrum123 , November 15, 2011
Duh this was not how she was made. This is part of a curse. Also Adam and Eve were created intelligent with a full functional language. God wouldn't just put them there say something they didn't understand and when they disobeyed punish them when they didn't even know what they were doing. They would have been intelligent ,and they were. God at the end of the sixth day called His creation "very good". Would He have done this if He had made people who couldn't even understand simple concepts when spoken to them? All of the other days of creation He called "good" ,but His crowning achievement (this being humanity) He calls "very good". Within a few generation they had learned how to make musical instruments ,and use copper ,bronze ,and iron tools. This of course being contrary to your evolutionary bias about people starting out stupid and becoming smarter and "evolving" has you stumped. You have been unable to accept any view contrary to your own even when the evidence is against you. You simply reinterpret the evidence in your favor. I don't know why a woman wasn't mentioned as being able to give a certificate of divorce. I will thoroughly research this issue to try and find an answer for you. Of course the only reason a man was allowed this was because of the Israelites being hardhearted and were not willing to follow God the way they were supposed to. Eve wasn't made to be subservient to Adam it was a punishment for her disobedience. This curse has had far reaching implications as nearly every culture across the globe has had some form of this being seen.An example being of India where widows were often burned with their dead husband while still alive. Again Eve was created to be Adam's companion. Men and women are spiritually equal. There are physical and psychological differences. This leads to different roles in life for men and women. Jesus equally paid for men and women on the cross ,and it's an equal way for them to be saved.
@ Reed
The person speaking here is God (not Allah by the way) ,and the "she" refers to Eve. I thought you would know this one.
@ Reed
The person speaking here is God (not Allah by the way) ,and the "she" refers to Eve. I thought you would know this one.
written by Reed Wilson. , November 15, 2011
Cerebrum123. It is symbolic woman. Every woman has labour pains not only Eve.
written by Cerebrum123 , November 15, 2011
Yes the curse was for all women ,but God was specifically speaking to Eve. She was the first woman and was in a sense a representative of women in general. The same goes for Adam. God was speaking to him personally ,but the curse was applied in the same way. All creation was affected by "the Fall" ,and is still affected to this day. The Bible says that the creation "groans" under effect of the curse. This can be seen in every day life all across the world and even out into the far reaches of the universe. Death ,decay ,disease ,and destruction all entered into the world through Adam's sin. Jesus being the "last Adam" brought into the world salvation through the cross. This is the message of the Bible. Consistently from beginning to end the Bible is about these things.
written by Machmoed , November 15, 2011
Death ,decay ,disease ,and destruction all entered into the world through Adam's sin.
Damn Adam, so it is his fault. But what did i have to do with it?
I'm sorry to tell you that i was born innocent and on the way along, man makes mistakes and learns from it. It's easy to see those things holy books mention are there because that's what they observed and knew. Nothing miraculous/divine there!
Damn Adam, so it is his fault. But what did i have to do with it?
I'm sorry to tell you that i was born innocent and on the way along, man makes mistakes and learns from it. It's easy to see those things holy books mention are there because that's what they observed and knew. Nothing miraculous/divine there!
written by Archpagan , November 16, 2011
'Archpagan Islam was there since beginning.'
Yes, but Koranic Islam with' la ilaha illalah Muhammad ur rasulallah started from 609 CE.
Yes, but Koranic Islam with' la ilaha illalah Muhammad ur rasulallah started from 609 CE.
written by duh_swami , November 16, 2011
Duh this was not how she was made.
I'm sorry Cerebrum, but I do not need you to explain anything to me...I already know all I need to know about Adam and Eve and your entire book...I'm not interested in your long drawn out book length explanations...
I'm sorry Cerebrum, but I do not need you to explain anything to me...I already know all I need to know about Adam and Eve and your entire book...I'm not interested in your long drawn out book length explanations...
written by Tim Halley , November 16, 2011
Dude, this site is about Islam. You may preach your gospel in a church. Certainly, I-W is not an ideal place to preach Christianity.
written by duh_swami , November 16, 2011
If a Christian is looking to convert Muslims to Christianity, it is best to not jam it down their throats...Cerebrum spends a lot of energy here (I-W) trying to convince the wrong people...Muslims just laugh at this behavior...Cerebrum needs his own web site or a church...or maybe Christian chat is the place...
written by Reed Wilson , November 16, 2011
Archpagan. "but Koranic Islam with' la ilaha illalah Muhammad ur rasulallah started from 609 CE."
Thanks for light comment. Let me say "la ilaha illalah" is one truth. After that you can add Archpagan live in India. It does not alter the truth. The kalma can be "la ilaha illalah Archpagan lives in India."
Thanks for light comment. Let me say "la ilaha illalah" is one truth. After that you can add Archpagan live in India. It does not alter the truth. The kalma can be "la ilaha illalah Archpagan lives in India."
written by Cerebrum123 , November 16, 2011
I'm not just on here to only preach the Gospel ,but to have intelligent discussions ,and clear up some of the misinformation and lies I see on here on a fairly regular basis. I start posting when I see something like Reed's above comment where he equated both the Torah and Gospel with the Quran. It spirals out away from there when Duh started on about how the Bible (which is untrue by the way) says that men are superior to women. He has almost no problem with the fact that all other cultures behaved that way ,but when he perceives ( even when the perception is false) something he disagrees with in the Bible he immediately attacks. VBV also makes the same kinds of statements. I simply try to clear these things up. I do post what the Gospel says when I see it to be relevant to the discussion at hand. Such as another thread where Archpagan asked why it was so important for a Christian to try and convert others. Also one thing from the Bible applies heavily to places outside of the church and Christian chat rooms ,and that is that " those who are healthy don't need a doctor ,the sick do". Jesus was talking about those who are spiritually "sick" ,and are in need of a relationship with God. What good am I accomplishing by preaching the Gospel to those who have already accepted it? Besides there are people on here from time to time that ask genuine questions about what I believe ,and what the Bible says. Comparing what the Bible truly says to that with what the Quran says can be an effective way of opening a real discussion. Real honest and intelligent discussion is a major reason I am on here at all. For a while I wasn't getting that so I left temporarily. Duh I have as much right to post on here as you do ,and when you put up false or misleading information up I am going to call you on it. If I ever do that feel free to call me on it. After all I'm only human and I make mistakes just like everyone else.
written by Cerebrum123 , November 16, 2011
You ask what you have to do with it and claim to be born innocent. The Bible answers this quite clearly. You are a descendant of Adam this means that his "original sin" is passed on to you even from birth. Not a single one of us is innocent at any one time in our life. Both children and infants die in this world. It is a sad fact that this happens ,but we brought these things on ourselves. God is fully just and would not put the punishment of death on someone who was innocent ,but He did willingly take it on Himself out of mercy and love for us all. You also continue sinning even without "original sin" you would still be guilty under God's law. Jesus was the only one who ever lived a perfect life ,and through His special birth He avoided having "original sin". This made Him the only one who could ever truly pay the penalty of sin entirely. Being God and man was necessary to fulfill the requirements so that sin could be paid for once and for all. Now that it has been paid for in full by Jesus ,all that one must do is ask for the free gift of salvation. This is the core message of the Gospel ,and Genesis being literal history is an integral part of this. Without Genesis being literal history (which it is) there is no need for Jesus or His redemptive work on the cross. That is why Genesis is the most attacked book in the Bible. Allegorizing and symbolizing Genesis is one of the most common attacks used. Duh here has used it several times just since I have been here( in total not since my recent return).
written by duh_swami , November 16, 2011
You are extremely tedious...This web site is not about me or your puke opinion about me...
Nor is it about you preaching the gospel...Talk to Muslims, address your religious opinions to them...You wear out your welcome fast with book length religious dogma on a comments section...
Nor is it about you preaching the gospel...Talk to Muslims, address your religious opinions to them...You wear out your welcome fast with book length religious dogma on a comments section...
written by lw1 , November 16, 2011
65.12. Allah it is who created seven heavens, and of the earth the like thereof. The commandment cometh down among them slowly, that ye may know that Allah is Able to do all things and that Allah surroundeth all things in knowledge.
Can any Muslim explain what the seven heavens are?
Just quoting Quran to us (who do not believe in Quran) has been taken care of by Reed Wilson.
Can any Muslim explain what the seven heavens are?
Just quoting Quran to us (who do not believe in Quran) has been taken care of by Reed Wilson.
written by Machmoed , November 17, 2011
Not a single one of us is innocent at any one time in our life. Both children and infants die in this world. It is a sad fact that this happens ,but we brought these things on ourselves.
I can't take this nonsense for granted. It is sad that someone thinks this way. How could you imagine an infant being guilty of anything if dies. God seemes to punish the poor more often than rich people, He hates poor and black people the most since many of them in africa are starved to death and die. Many of them are christian. Is Jesus a racist that he favours the white people?
Why would your opinion be more relevant than mine or someone else's? I don't think i got the truth and i don't believe you got it either. I am adult enough to accept the fact that there is no absolute truth. Can you?
About symbolism in the bible. It's a fact and not because our friend Duh sais so. Look at other cultures. It is as old as humanity. The bible is full of symbolism if you know what to look for.
I thank you for the invitation to glorify Jesus/God. To me Jesus is not God nor a spokesman for God. Neither is Muhammad and all those other so called prophets/messengers.
I can't take this nonsense for granted. It is sad that someone thinks this way. How could you imagine an infant being guilty of anything if dies. God seemes to punish the poor more often than rich people, He hates poor and black people the most since many of them in africa are starved to death and die. Many of them are christian. Is Jesus a racist that he favours the white people?
Why would your opinion be more relevant than mine or someone else's? I don't think i got the truth and i don't believe you got it either. I am adult enough to accept the fact that there is no absolute truth. Can you?
About symbolism in the bible. It's a fact and not because our friend Duh sais so. Look at other cultures. It is as old as humanity. The bible is full of symbolism if you know what to look for.
I thank you for the invitation to glorify Jesus/God. To me Jesus is not God nor a spokesman for God. Neither is Muhammad and all those other so called prophets/messengers.
written by Archpagan , November 17, 2011
O K dear, chant that kalma five times a day. In my younger days, I used to hear people say 'Mohammedan' and 'Mohammedan religion' etc. in place of 'Muslim' and 'Islam'. I treated them as fool. Now, to my shock, I find myself a fool.
written by vbv , November 18, 2011
There are nuts who believe that they are the descendants of a mythical Adam and Eve even in the 21st. century.Adam and Eve is the creation of the bronzer-age jews who were grappling with the socalled origins of their race- mind you Adam and Eve were exclusive to the jews : they were not the Universal first humans. Caqin and Abel were the product of this incestuous relationship . But Cain and Abel got their wives from some other tribes that pre-existed this Adam and Eve caper. Yahweh did not manufacture another 'Eve' for the offsprings of this nonsensical story. Yet people of abrahamic 'religions' firmly believe this , which has been usurped by Muhamad ,as he did the other biblifairy tales with his own distortions. This is like some one plagiarising Homeric poems ,claiming it to be truer than Homer. Absurd, too damn absud , yet there are nuts who believe all these nutty tales to be true, that too in the age of science and knowledge. Prophets 'flying' to heaven in mythical half horse half human,claiming to converse with 'angels', claiming to heari the voice of 'god',,whatnot. Nothing can be stupider and nuttier than all tsese bullshits. Yet we have die-hard followers of all these nutty myths.
written by Cerebrum123 , November 18, 2011
Cain and Abel had their sisters as their wives. This is the only logical conclusion when you actually read what the Bible says. You have obviously just taken someone else's word for what the Bible says ,and not even looked at it yourself. At least not in an objective way. How is Adam and Eve being together incestuous? You always come on here angry and immediately attack Christianity ,and Judaism along with Islam. You seem to think that they are the same ,and somehow equal. By taking a real look at this you would understand it differently. By the way this age of modern Science you owe to Biblical creationists. Science was basically stillborn in all other environments other the Christian environment. Due to the false teachings of Darwin ,and the idea that the earth is billions of years old has taken hold ,and is not only ruining or moral climate ,but our educational one as well. Once the church started accepting these ideas ( that don't match up with what we find in the real world by the way). People started questioning the rest of the Bible.
written by Cerebrum123 , November 18, 2011
God doesn't hate anyone ,but He does hate sin. Sin is simply a rejection of God ,and leads to separation from Him. Since He is the source of all that is good ,and we are all separated from Him none of us is good. Human perception about what is innocent is the problem. Original sin precludes any human from being innocent no matter how they live their lives. Only by asking for forgiveness ,and accepting Jesus as one's savior can a person be counted as innocent by God.(as for people who have never heard the Gospel ,and never had a chance to do this I do not know what really comes into play here.) Human perception is fallible God's Word isn't. I trust God's Word over fallible human perceptions every time. I know that this can be hard to handle ,but it is the truth. There is absolute truth ,and it is something you have to deal with. Murder is absolutely evil isn't it?(I'm not taking about killing in self defense or war I'm talking premeditated murder) What Mohammed did with Aisha is absolutely evil isn't it? Besides by saying that there is no absolute truth is in itself an absolute. It's a self refuting argument. Because if there is even one absolute this proves the idea that there are no absolutes to be in error. This is an example of the lies being spread in our education system today.( I live in the USA where every generation seems to be getting more and more stupid.Indoctrination in the schools is a big problem too.) Anyone who says that there is no absolute truth is being inconsistent ,and anyone who says that there is no absolute good or bad always has an idea of something that is absolutely good ,and something that is absolutely wrong. These two ideas lead to nothing but chaos and destruction. With this mentality someone can easily decide that murder is good. Hitler was able to convince Germany that what he was doing was right. Without an absolute unchanging standard of right and wrong you end up with insanity.
written by Machmoed , November 18, 2011
I trust God's Word over fallible human perceptions every time. I know that this can be hard to handle ,but it is the truth. There is absolute truth ,and it is something you have to deal with.
The problem here is that you again assume that it it is gods word and then you claim that it is the truth. With this conclusion you take all the space of others away (sort of speaking). It can be translated as irrespectfull to others by making their vision invalid and yours not only valid but even the only one. Is this a manifestation of a good entity or a fool? if it is foolish, then why would the divine act foolishly?
Don't assume that much, only because the bible sais so. Muslims in general believe Qur'an is the litteral and final word of Allah/God. Do you think they are stupid to understand that it might be the words of (an) arab(s) in 7th century or even created later?
The answeer is NO. Like you, they trully believe/think they got "the truth".
About God hating sin, is an assumption. Everything comes from the creator, also the things we call bad. Factually they come unconditionally. It is we who brand something as good or bad. You said murder is evil. Is it? A lion grabs and eats an impala (dear), can it be called murder? Is it evil? What about warfare where thousands of people die? Is it evil? What about these people who are getting killed are muslims. Is it still a bad thing?
The problem here is that you again assume that it it is gods word and then you claim that it is the truth. With this conclusion you take all the space of others away (sort of speaking). It can be translated as irrespectfull to others by making their vision invalid and yours not only valid but even the only one. Is this a manifestation of a good entity or a fool? if it is foolish, then why would the divine act foolishly?
Don't assume that much, only because the bible sais so. Muslims in general believe Qur'an is the litteral and final word of Allah/God. Do you think they are stupid to understand that it might be the words of (an) arab(s) in 7th century or even created later?
The answeer is NO. Like you, they trully believe/think they got "the truth".
About God hating sin, is an assumption. Everything comes from the creator, also the things we call bad. Factually they come unconditionally. It is we who brand something as good or bad. You said murder is evil. Is it? A lion grabs and eats an impala (dear), can it be called murder? Is it evil? What about warfare where thousands of people die? Is it evil? What about these people who are getting killed are muslims. Is it still a bad thing?
written by Cerebrum123 , November 19, 2011
Unlike the Quran however ,the Bible can stand any test and remain as strong as it ever was. The Quran has many things that are known to be blatantly false( the setting of the sun in a muddy spring for example). The Bible while not a science text book or a history text book ,is completely supported by both(at least when properly interpreted this is true) . In fact many times when the Bible has been accused of error it's been shown in a relatively short time that human error is the problem ,and not an error in the Bible. When a lion eats another animal that is not murder , it is however an effect of the "Fall". Animals aren't accountable to God for their actions. They eat to survive. All animals and all humans used to be vegetarian. It wasn't until after the flood of Noah that God allowed people to eat animals for food. Also war isn't murder either. War is unfortunate ,but it is different than murder. I am strictly talking premeditated murder here. If someone breaks into your home and kills you in your sleep isn't that evil? If someone who doesn't like you decides to kill you because of personal hatred towards you isn't that evil? You also didn't answer about what Mohammed did to Ayesha. Isn't that absolutely evil? The Bible has shown itself to be trustworthy ,and is close to 99% the same as the oldest copies we have.Some of these are many thousands of years old. There are also highly specific prophecies in these ancient texts that show that they have been accurate 100% of the time. These prophecies were often written hundreds or thousands of years before they were fulfilled. Just because someone chooses not to accept the truth doesn't mean it's not there. Someone could easily choose to believe that the law of gravity doesn't apply to them and jump off a building. They could believe this with everything they have ,but they are still going to fall. The Bible is different from all other ancient documents. It has stood the test of time ,and the harshest scrutiny ,but it still manages to stay relevant at all times ,and in all places. It changes the lives of millions of people for the better ,and continues to do so. People have been attacking it ,and only when Christians start compromising on it's authority do people start to doubt it. This has been happening more and more recently ,and what have the effects been? Our country is in moral ,educational ,and economic decline. Righteousness exalts a nation ,where sin is a reproach to any land. And it all started when people started compromising on the authority of scripture. I refuse to do this no matter what people think of me. I am not ashamed of the Gospel.
written by Archpagan , November 19, 2011
My definition of Truth is 'Something that adult people flock to learn', and and that of Lie is 'Something that adult people are forced or cajoled to learn'.
Amen!
Amen!
written by Cerebrum123 , November 22, 2011
People flocked to Jesus during His ministry. There are many people who are still flocking to the truth of the Bible. It's not quite the same as it used to be. Your definition of a lie fits perfectly with Darwinian evolution ,and secular humanism. More and more people are being indoctrinated with moral relativism ,evolution ,and secular humanism. Haeckle's Embryo's is a perfect example of a lie propagated by evolutionists. Archaeoraptor ,Piltdown Man ,and the peppered moth's were all frauds(even if the peppered moth thing had been true it certainly wasn't evidence supporting monkey to man evolution ,only natural selection which is something real that has been used by evolutionists as a bait and switch for the monkeys to man evolution) . I've seen several of these taught as fact in school text books. TV ,newspapers , movies ,school textbooks ,books etc all try to claim that all life came from a single ancestor ,and more often than not claim it is a proven fact.
written by Archpagan , November 22, 2011
On evolution, I suggest you read read works of Michael A. Cremo, the forbidden archeologist.
written by Machmoed , November 23, 2011
Unlike the Quran however ,the Bible can stand any test and remain as strong as it ever was. The Quran has many things that are known to be blatantly false( the setting of the sun in a muddy spring for example).
Cerebrum, the strength of the bible or qur'an resides only with believers. In the bible are also things that are blatently false. For the sun setting in a muddy spring for example it is not false. The qur'an explicitly mentions that thul qarnain saw the sun setting etc. not that it is indeed where the sun sets or that Allah sais that the sun sets in a muddy spring.
To me, there are no holy books, nor people who can talk with God or anything like that. Why? because it is a false doctrine. There is no religion that holds the truth, but there are thruths in it....also in qur'an.
Cerebrum, the strength of the bible or qur'an resides only with believers. In the bible are also things that are blatently false. For the sun setting in a muddy spring for example it is not false. The qur'an explicitly mentions that thul qarnain saw the sun setting etc. not that it is indeed where the sun sets or that Allah sais that the sun sets in a muddy spring.
To me, there are no holy books, nor people who can talk with God or anything like that. Why? because it is a false doctrine. There is no religion that holds the truth, but there are thruths in it....also in qur'an.
written by Yibel , November 25, 2011
"Muslims in general believe Qur'an is the litteral and final word of Allah/God. Do you think they are stupid to understand that it might be the words of (an) arab(s) in 7th century or even created later? "
It makes absolutely no difference, what-so-ever, if a 7th Century Arab created the Qur'an or not. What does matter is: Is it factual? Because FACTUAL is what it CLAIMS to be! And NO, it is NOT factual!
The earth is not flat and the sky is not a canopy overhead which can fall down on us!
There are no seven earths and seven heavens and the earth revolves around the sun; the sun does not swim in a path across the sky, and neither does the moon! The Qur'an states in numerous places that the earth is flat, laid out like layers of carpets or a bed. It doesn't say that things just look that way. It also says that Allah threw down the mountains to stablize the earth so it would quit rocking because the earth floats on water.
The Qur'an also states that thul qarnain (Alexander the Great) traveled to the east where he saw that the sun burnt the skins of people in the east because they live too close to where it rises! Then, he built a hugh dam of molten brass in a mountain pass! The Qur'an presents this information as truth, not as some made up story.
And see the moon for which We have determined various stages. (It appears like a beautiful crescent and then gradually becomes the full moon, after which it starts waning till it becomes like an old date stalk, dried up and curved.) 36:39
No mention in the Qur'an that the moon looks the way it does because it revolves around the earth and its position causes it TO LOOK LIKE a crescent or a full moon depending on its location, relative to the sun!
But most important of all:
Muhammad was not the perfect man! Whether he ever existed or not doesn't matter. The tales told about him show that this person was the worst of humankind.
This so-called ideal person was a vengeful, sadistic, malicious, evil, cruel, narcissistic, lustful, vile, deceitful terrorist, pedophile and rapist, not to mention, the world's biggest liar.
The obvious errors, tall tales, and horror stories in the Qur'an, ahadith, and sunnah should be more than enough to convince any intelligent, sane person that this political ideology is a bunch of crap. So the answer to your question, from my point of view, is YES! Muslims are stupid! Stupid and brainwashed and suffering from a heavy dose of self-hypnosis brought on by chanting ritual slogans 5 times a day coupled with sleep deprivation from getting up at 4am to chant some more.
And maybe that is why Islamic countries are so backward and have been for centuries. You simply can't build a decent civilization by following the Qur'an. There is 1400 years of proof. The Qur'an stopped all human progress at the savage level and keeps it there.
It makes absolutely no difference, what-so-ever, if a 7th Century Arab created the Qur'an or not. What does matter is: Is it factual? Because FACTUAL is what it CLAIMS to be! And NO, it is NOT factual!
The earth is not flat and the sky is not a canopy overhead which can fall down on us!
There are no seven earths and seven heavens and the earth revolves around the sun; the sun does not swim in a path across the sky, and neither does the moon! The Qur'an states in numerous places that the earth is flat, laid out like layers of carpets or a bed. It doesn't say that things just look that way. It also says that Allah threw down the mountains to stablize the earth so it would quit rocking because the earth floats on water.
The Qur'an also states that thul qarnain (Alexander the Great) traveled to the east where he saw that the sun burnt the skins of people in the east because they live too close to where it rises! Then, he built a hugh dam of molten brass in a mountain pass! The Qur'an presents this information as truth, not as some made up story.
And see the moon for which We have determined various stages. (It appears like a beautiful crescent and then gradually becomes the full moon, after which it starts waning till it becomes like an old date stalk, dried up and curved.) 36:39
No mention in the Qur'an that the moon looks the way it does because it revolves around the earth and its position causes it TO LOOK LIKE a crescent or a full moon depending on its location, relative to the sun!
But most important of all:
Muhammad was not the perfect man! Whether he ever existed or not doesn't matter. The tales told about him show that this person was the worst of humankind.
This so-called ideal person was a vengeful, sadistic, malicious, evil, cruel, narcissistic, lustful, vile, deceitful terrorist, pedophile and rapist, not to mention, the world's biggest liar.
The obvious errors, tall tales, and horror stories in the Qur'an, ahadith, and sunnah should be more than enough to convince any intelligent, sane person that this political ideology is a bunch of crap. So the answer to your question, from my point of view, is YES! Muslims are stupid! Stupid and brainwashed and suffering from a heavy dose of self-hypnosis brought on by chanting ritual slogans 5 times a day coupled with sleep deprivation from getting up at 4am to chant some more.
And maybe that is why Islamic countries are so backward and have been for centuries. You simply can't build a decent civilization by following the Qur'an. There is 1400 years of proof. The Qur'an stopped all human progress at the savage level and keeps it there.
written by Cerebrum123 , November 27, 2011
I would like you to show me these things in the Bible that are blatantly false. There have been a few minor translation errors ,and copyist mistakes ,but they are very minor ,and don't affect doctrine in any way. The originals often called "autographs" would have been error free as God would have kept the human authors from making these mistakes. As for the sun "appearing" to set in a muddy spring ,this is not how the people took it then or it's original meaning. Here is an excellent article on this subject.
http://www.answering-islam.org...ring.html
This should explain the Zhul Qarnain story quite well.
http://www.answering-islam.org...ring.html
This should explain the Zhul Qarnain story quite well.
written by Machmoed , November 28, 2011
What's your point Yibel?
You don't have to convince me of qur'an being not true in its contents. Such things do not exist. Muhammad was not a perfect man? Not according to all stories about him. To me it doesn't matter what Muhammad did or didn't. Maybe he didn't exist, like jesus maybe didn't exist. What matters the most to me is that Qur'an is not from God and thus 100% human. I find believers in general sad that they believe that humanity isn't capable of creating such books, while there where civilizations even greater than ours and without God being a vehicle. Religion has nothing to do with a possible creator. It is a creation of the created.
You don't have to convince me of qur'an being not true in its contents. Such things do not exist. Muhammad was not a perfect man? Not according to all stories about him. To me it doesn't matter what Muhammad did or didn't. Maybe he didn't exist, like jesus maybe didn't exist. What matters the most to me is that Qur'an is not from God and thus 100% human. I find believers in general sad that they believe that humanity isn't capable of creating such books, while there where civilizations even greater than ours and without God being a vehicle. Religion has nothing to do with a possible creator. It is a creation of the created.
written by Machmoed , November 28, 2011
"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel."
Thomas Paine
"The Bible is not the "word of God," but stolen from pagan sources. Its Eden, Adam and Eve were taken from the Babylonian accounts; its Flood and Deluge is but an epitome of some four hundred flood accounts; its Ark and Ararat have their equivalents in a score of Deluge myths; even the names of Noah's sons are copies, so also Isaac's sacrifice, Solomon's judgment, and Samson's pillar acts; its Moses is fashioned after the Syrian Mises; its laws after Hammurabi's code. Its Messiah is derived from the Egyptian Mahdi, Savior, certain verses are verbatim copies of Egyptian scriptures. Between Jesus and the Egyptian Horus, Gerald Massy found 137 similarities, and those between Christ and Krishna run into the hundreds. How then can the Bible be a revelation to the Jews?"
Lloyd Graham
I throw all religions from the table of truth!
Machmoed
Thomas Paine
"The Bible is not the "word of God," but stolen from pagan sources. Its Eden, Adam and Eve were taken from the Babylonian accounts; its Flood and Deluge is but an epitome of some four hundred flood accounts; its Ark and Ararat have their equivalents in a score of Deluge myths; even the names of Noah's sons are copies, so also Isaac's sacrifice, Solomon's judgment, and Samson's pillar acts; its Moses is fashioned after the Syrian Mises; its laws after Hammurabi's code. Its Messiah is derived from the Egyptian Mahdi, Savior, certain verses are verbatim copies of Egyptian scriptures. Between Jesus and the Egyptian Horus, Gerald Massy found 137 similarities, and those between Christ and Krishna run into the hundreds. How then can the Bible be a revelation to the Jews?"
Lloyd Graham
I throw all religions from the table of truth!
Machmoed
written by Cerebrum123 , November 28, 2011
As for the idea that the Bible borrowed from pagan sources this is easily refutable. Most of these things when they do have similarities are extremely minor ,and most are never really similarities at all ,but someone dressing them up as similarities. As for everyone having similar stories of Noah and the Flood did you ever think that this actually happened and was passed down from generation to generation? This is what happened although all other sources ,but the Bible have been corrupted. People have similar laws because as the Bible state "the law is written on our hearts".This is called by most people a conscience. If this wasn't true then there would be no consistency of laws in any society. Solomon was famous for his wisdom in the then known world so it's not at all a stretch that this was spread to other countries. If you look at Horus and Krishna closely you will see those similarities disappear quite quickly. Isn't the Mahdi something from Islam which dates much later than Christianity? Most of the claims above are completely unsubstantiated. Gerald Massey is also very unreliable as a source.Lloyd Graham is a nut job saying that all of the planets were once suns ,and that life once existed on the moon. He also says that our sun once it burns out will become a planet(this is FAR from the "scientific" models of how our solar system formed. It's also very far from what the Bible says. I think we both disagree with this man.). Next time check your sources more carefully. As for Thomas Paine ,he is right about there being a history of wickedness ,but this is on the part of the people not on the part of God. True history of any country will show all kinds of horrible things happening. Do you really expect a truthful account of history to be full of perfect people free from all error and all evil? Just look at the news ,and even this site. Don't always believe what you read Machmoed. I know I don't.
written by Yibel , November 28, 2011
I was answering your question: Is Jesus a racist that he favours the white people?
When people follow false and evil doctrines, such as Islam, lots of innocent people will suffer: the Hindus in India, Africans in North Africa, Budhists in Afganistan, and Christians in Europe. Everywhere this evil has spread/invaded there has been much death and destruction. For example, when Constantinole (a Christian city) fell, hundreds of thousands were killed by the Muslims and the 30,000 remaining survivors were sold into slavery in Damascus and Baghdad.
This has nothing to do with skin color, but was more a matter of opportunity on the part of the Muslim terrorist horde. Persia, Africa, Bactria, and India were simply easier targets when Islam first started out of Arabia. Europe was also attacked repeatedly; however, some places were better defended (google Battle of Tours France, 8th century, Gates of Vienna, 17th century, and Ontranto, Italy 15th century for some examples). The main structure of the Byzantium Empire held out against repeated attacks for 700 years because of a good defensive system.
When people follow false and evil doctrines, such as Islam, lots of innocent people will suffer: the Hindus in India, Africans in North Africa, Budhists in Afganistan, and Christians in Europe. Everywhere this evil has spread/invaded there has been much death and destruction. For example, when Constantinole (a Christian city) fell, hundreds of thousands were killed by the Muslims and the 30,000 remaining survivors were sold into slavery in Damascus and Baghdad.
This has nothing to do with skin color, but was more a matter of opportunity on the part of the Muslim terrorist horde. Persia, Africa, Bactria, and India were simply easier targets when Islam first started out of Arabia. Europe was also attacked repeatedly; however, some places were better defended (google Battle of Tours France, 8th century, Gates of Vienna, 17th century, and Ontranto, Italy 15th century for some examples). The main structure of the Byzantium Empire held out against repeated attacks for 700 years because of a good defensive system.
written by Machmoed , November 29, 2011
I was answering your question: Is Jesus a racist that he favours the white people?
Yibel, I don't have anything against Jesus my friend. He was and still is a great example like i told you before. In this context i used Jesus as God. God is not Jesus and Jesus is not God. Allah is not the God nor is God the God. To me religion is not the truth as the gods it represent.
Yibel, I don't have anything against Jesus my friend. He was and still is a great example like i told you before. In this context i used Jesus as God. God is not Jesus and Jesus is not God. Allah is not the God nor is God the God. To me religion is not the truth as the gods it represent.
written by Yibel , November 30, 2011
I can certainly understand your point of view. I merely wanted to clear up the idea that is out there that white people are the so-called "Chosen Ones" because they are not. Salvation is for all, and merely requires doing good to others.
Some might call it good Karma. "Be the change you want to see in the world."
There is much confusion about the person of Yahshua (aka Jesus) and much of this
started with the Roman Emperor Constantine when he created the Catholic
("Catholic" means "Universal" in Latin) Church, circa 320 CE, and then went on to decree that Yahshua (Hebrew for "Yah is the Savior") was one of the gods.
The Romans had lots of gods and didn't have a problem with humans becoming gods. But the Christians at this time weren't at all comfortable with the concept, and a great deal of arguing took place which lasted for many centuries. And still goes on today.
Yahshua (Jesus) called himself The Son of Man, prayed to YHVH and taught his followers to do the same. See Mt 6:9 and Lk 11:2
With Best Regards,
Yibel
Some might call it good Karma. "Be the change you want to see in the world."
There is much confusion about the person of Yahshua (aka Jesus) and much of this
started with the Roman Emperor Constantine when he created the Catholic
("Catholic" means "Universal" in Latin) Church, circa 320 CE, and then went on to decree that Yahshua (Hebrew for "Yah is the Savior") was one of the gods.
The Romans had lots of gods and didn't have a problem with humans becoming gods. But the Christians at this time weren't at all comfortable with the concept, and a great deal of arguing took place which lasted for many centuries. And still goes on today.
Yahshua (Jesus) called himself The Son of Man, prayed to YHVH and taught his followers to do the same. See Mt 6:9 and Lk 11:2
With Best Regards,
Yibel
written by Machmoed , December 01, 2011
Thank you Yibel. I know Jesus was called the son of man. You do remember when Jesus told the beggar if he believed in the son of man. The beggar replied as if he didn't know the son of man is talking to him because of blindness. Here is the weirdness in this. A blind man has a great hearing so when a man gives him sight and hears his voice, the next time he will recognize the voice...but he didn't. This is a story wich shows that the writers of the bible didn't know these facts of someone who is blind. My point is, the stories in the Bible are not reliable and trustworthy as if it really happened.
Jesus must be a great man in his time and even now, but a God, that's too much of the good.
Enough about Jesus. the perfect example of all times. He didn't order his followers to kill, to conquer etc. The difference is that it was in spite of christianity while muslims kill because of the ideology of islam (apsotates and kafirs).
thanx again,
Machmoed
Jesus must be a great man in his time and even now, but a God, that's too much of the good.
Enough about Jesus. the perfect example of all times. He didn't order his followers to kill, to conquer etc. The difference is that it was in spite of christianity while muslims kill because of the ideology of islam (apsotates and kafirs).
thanx again,
Machmoed
written by Cerebrum123 , December 01, 2011
When Jesus asked the blind man if he believed in the "Son of Man" ,He was asking if the blind man believed in the Messiah. The blind man then asked who the Messiah is so that he could believe in Him. Jesus answered you have seen Him and are talking with Him. This is very different from the supposed "ignorance" you claim about a blind person. Unless Jesus told the blind man the He was the Messiah ,or the blind man had been taught a great deal of Messianic prophecy there would be no way for the blind man to know that Jesus was in fact the Messiah. This has nothing to do with a blind man and his possibly superior hearing.Not only that but he had already been healed of his blindness before this discussion took place. This is all about getting the blind man to understand that Jesus who had healed him was the Messiah ,not that he couldn't recognize Jesus' voice after being healed. This is of course just a simple misunderstanding on your part. It happens to all of us.
written by Yibel , December 01, 2011
I hope that Cerebrum123 has cleared up any misconception that you had concerning the incident with the blind man.
Sorry to upset you with all the Bible talk, but it is difficult not to bring Yahshua/Jesus (aka Issa in the Qur'an) on a website about Islam because the Qur'an contains so many passages full of misinformation about his life and mission.
The Qur'an denies the true purpose of Yahshua (Issa) and, instead, claims his virgin birth was THE miracle. In the Qur'an Yahshua (Issa) is nothing more than a talking baby who who brought clay birds to life. Pretty dumb stuff, NOT Biblical, and there is no point to it.
The Qur'an declares itself to be perfect and the true words of a creator god, so proving otherwise requires exposing the myths and debunking all the lies and misinformation, such as all the stupid creation nonsense as well as references to and stories about Biblical and other historical figures.
I hope that you read the above passages that I mentioned because they clearly state that Yahshua/Jesus was not God, and that Christians do not pray to or worship him. Muhammah and his Qur'an are wrong on this account. Christians also do not worship his mother. The Qur'an is wrong again. In addition, the Jews do not worship someone named Ezra. Never have. The Qur'an is wrong. Again. Also Jews were never turned into apes or pigs.
The Qur'an is a book full of lies, hate mongering, and rabble-rousing sermons. And all of it must be debunked so that Islam is defeated once and for all. The fate of humanity is at stake.
Defeating Islam is a moral imperative.
With Best Regards,
Yibel
Sorry to upset you with all the Bible talk, but it is difficult not to bring Yahshua/Jesus (aka Issa in the Qur'an) on a website about Islam because the Qur'an contains so many passages full of misinformation about his life and mission.
The Qur'an denies the true purpose of Yahshua (Issa) and, instead, claims his virgin birth was THE miracle. In the Qur'an Yahshua (Issa) is nothing more than a talking baby who who brought clay birds to life. Pretty dumb stuff, NOT Biblical, and there is no point to it.
The Qur'an declares itself to be perfect and the true words of a creator god, so proving otherwise requires exposing the myths and debunking all the lies and misinformation, such as all the stupid creation nonsense as well as references to and stories about Biblical and other historical figures.
I hope that you read the above passages that I mentioned because they clearly state that Yahshua/Jesus was not God, and that Christians do not pray to or worship him. Muhammah and his Qur'an are wrong on this account. Christians also do not worship his mother. The Qur'an is wrong again. In addition, the Jews do not worship someone named Ezra. Never have. The Qur'an is wrong. Again. Also Jews were never turned into apes or pigs.
The Qur'an is a book full of lies, hate mongering, and rabble-rousing sermons. And all of it must be debunked so that Islam is defeated once and for all. The fate of humanity is at stake.
Defeating Islam is a moral imperative.
With Best Regards,
Yibel
written by Machmoed , December 02, 2011
I hope that you read the above passages that I mentioned because they clearly state that Yahshua/Jesus was not God...
For once i agree with the qur'an. Like i said, i believe there are no holy books. Qur'an to me is a (vage/dirty) mirror to the 7th century of the hidjaaz and the first complete book (?) in arabic. Nothing holy about it. It's all human fiction and they found it necessary then. Nowadays humans should progress and become aware of themself and their environment, wich means everybody can choose a lifestyle with or without a god and every individual has his own truth as long as it is within the borders of the (const.) law. That's all there is Yibel and cerebrum, cheers.
For once i agree with the qur'an. Like i said, i believe there are no holy books. Qur'an to me is a (vage/dirty) mirror to the 7th century of the hidjaaz and the first complete book (?) in arabic. Nothing holy about it. It's all human fiction and they found it necessary then. Nowadays humans should progress and become aware of themself and their environment, wich means everybody can choose a lifestyle with or without a god and every individual has his own truth as long as it is within the borders of the (const.) law. That's all there is Yibel and cerebrum, cheers.
written by vbv , December 02, 2011
Creationism is absolute bunkum. The Universe/Multiverse had no beginning nor has it any ending: it is continually evolving and changing. The Bible/Torah/Quran has no idea of this Universe/multiverse. If you read these stone-age books, you can see very clearly that they did not even have the knowldge about this planet and its geography. The authors of these fictional 'holy' books did not know anything beyond their immediate environs. They had no knowledge of most parts of Asia (China,Japan,Indonesia, India, Mongolia, Siberia,etc), Australia, New Zealand , the Americas, Scandinavian countries , even the British Isles,Ireland,etc..... To ascribe wisdom ,knowledge to such a bunch of superstitious , insular and maniacal nuts is an insult to the human civilisation and its great spread across this world. The desert barbarians used the most potent psychological weapon "the fear of a monotheistic megalomaniacal god" to put fear in the minds of the gullible people and destroy civilisations to usher in the barbaric existence of distrust , fear, superstitions ,anarchy, clerical tyranny and ignorance. So much for this Adam and Eve fraud , the fraud of Noah's Ark, or the splitting of the Red sea and such other bullshits.
Basically ,these desert barbarians coveted for the wealth and prosperity of great civilisations like Egypt, Babylon, Sumeria, Assyria, Persia, Nubia, etc. They knew that they could never match them even in their dreams , they devised this corrosive monotheistic cults to subvert and destroy civilisations using gullible fools as tools in this evil endeavour. Monotheism is a sham, a scandal , an insult to human intelligence .... The monotheistic 'god' resembles a mad megalomaniac , vengeful creature , intolerant and destructive to the core. The inventors of this fictional 'god' have made very good use to defeat their opponents playing on human mind ,and their sense of uncertainity of future and the fear of death. And they have been successful till this day with even educated fools falling for this primitive trap.
Basically ,these desert barbarians coveted for the wealth and prosperity of great civilisations like Egypt, Babylon, Sumeria, Assyria, Persia, Nubia, etc. They knew that they could never match them even in their dreams , they devised this corrosive monotheistic cults to subvert and destroy civilisations using gullible fools as tools in this evil endeavour. Monotheism is a sham, a scandal , an insult to human intelligence .... The monotheistic 'god' resembles a mad megalomaniac , vengeful creature , intolerant and destructive to the core. The inventors of this fictional 'god' have made very good use to defeat their opponents playing on human mind ,and their sense of uncertainity of future and the fear of death. And they have been successful till this day with even educated fools falling for this primitive trap.
written by Cerebrum123 , December 02, 2011
There was a beginning to this universe. Even the most ardent and anti-Christian atheist will admit to that. They call it the "Big Bang Theory". Of course a universe that ends with a "Big Bang" immediately dies with it as well. There is absolutely no way for the universe we live in to form by itself. Matter and energy are not eternal ,and will eventually lose their ability to stay together. Our earth's magnetic field is decaying. It's decaying quite rapidly too. If the earth were truly billions of years old it would have no magnetic field at this point. The "Dynamo Theory" is bunk. It also can't explain how the moon once had a magnetic field 10 times stronger than that on earth ,but no longer has one at all today. Mercury also has a magnetic field when according to evolutionary scientists it shouldn't. There really is only one God. He really did create this universe approximately 6000 years ago. He really did reveal Himself to us both in the Bible and in the person of Jesus Christ ,and He really does want us to ave a relationship with Him.
written by Cerebrum123 , December 02, 2011
Christians have been worshiping Jesus since the beginning of Christianity. Jesus is God. This point is made very clearly throughout the NT. Jesus Himself declared to be God ,He just did it in a more subtle way than bursting out saying "I am God worship me". He knew He was God ,His disciples realized He was God ,and even His enemies among the Pharisees knew what He was claiming. The charge against Him was blasphemy. C.S. Lewis put it quite well when he outlined the options for who Jesus was. He was either a lunatic ,a liar ,or Lord. Since Jesus has been proven from what He said to be both trustworthy ,and of sound mind ,the only other option (the correct one) is that He is the Lord God. Yibel those verses do not prove that Jesus is not God. They only prove that He was also human. You see Jesus had to be both man and God in order to truly pay the penalty for the sins of all mankind. He needed to be human because the punishment of sin was one meant for humanity ,and He had to be God in order to bear the eternal punishment that comes with sin. You seem quite intelligent Yibel ,but you are missing the core of Christian belief ,and that is that God loved us so much that He gave Himself up in the person of Jesus Christ to save us from the punishment we rightly deserve. Christian belief has always been this way. Jesus is the second person in the Trinity the Son. God is one God ,but He is also 3 persons. The Father ,The Son ,and The Holy Spirit. They are all equally God ,and are all eternal. Jesus existed as God The Son before He came and dwelt among mankind. He did this from eternity. John 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.
The Word spoken of here is Jesus. Jesus being God is part of the central message of Christianity ,and always has been.Being a "good person" is not the way into heaven. Only by faith in Jesus as your savior will one be allowed to spend eternity with their Creator. This is a decision everyone has to make. People always say that Christianity is exclusive ,but this is incorrect since anyone can come to Christ if only they are willing.
The Word spoken of here is Jesus. Jesus being God is part of the central message of Christianity ,and always has been.Being a "good person" is not the way into heaven. Only by faith in Jesus as your savior will one be allowed to spend eternity with their Creator. This is a decision everyone has to make. People always say that Christianity is exclusive ,but this is incorrect since anyone can come to Christ if only they are willing.
written by C Read , December 02, 2011
You forget to mention 18:86 where Moslems are delighted to learn that the sun sets in a muddy marsh [and the people living nearby must either submit to Allah or be attacked....]
"Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We (Allah) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness."
Maybe Mad Moh on his winged beast discovered this as another revelatory signal from his buddy the Hub'Allah, or the male moon Assyro-Babylonian deity who was 'Allah' or the 'ilah' when Mad Moh was born.
Allah means 'the lord' or the 'one'. It does not mean God. Hubal was the 'one' in 571 AD. If you read the Koran you will discover very quickly that Mad Moh is really 'the one'....
www.western-civilisation.com
"Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We (Allah) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness."
Maybe Mad Moh on his winged beast discovered this as another revelatory signal from his buddy the Hub'Allah, or the male moon Assyro-Babylonian deity who was 'Allah' or the 'ilah' when Mad Moh was born.
Allah means 'the lord' or the 'one'. It does not mean God. Hubal was the 'one' in 571 AD. If you read the Koran you will discover very quickly that Mad Moh is really 'the one'....
www.western-civilisation.com
written by Allah is a Joke. , December 02, 2011
Cerebrum seems to be Allah. Because he claims to "know" the "truth".
written by Allah is a Joke. , December 02, 2011
Do not show people like Cerebrum the truth so soon.
Keep mocking Allah.
Let them (if they choose to) experience some remorse.
Till then, we just need to keep drawing those Muhammed cartoons.
Keep mocking Allah.
Let them (if they choose to) experience some remorse.
Till then, we just need to keep drawing those Muhammed cartoons.
written by Cerebrum123 , December 03, 2011
I am not a Muslim ,and do not believe the Quran. I am a Christian ,and believe in Jesus Christ as my savior. The Bible has proven itself trustworthy over and over again. The Bible is the truth. God has revealed Himself to mankind in 2 main ways. First in His written word the Bible ,and second in the person Jesus Christ. Even the natural world testifies to His glory. Even a single celled organism is far more complex than anything mankind has even come close to achieving. There is no evidence of a multivese ,and string theory is as flimsy as what it is named after. These and many other things being proclaimed to the world as "science" are simply man's feeble attempts at disguising the fact that this universe has a Designer. God created this universe and everything in it. And it is very visible to those who do not willfully blind themselves to the obvious. Everything we see in existence has all of the earmarks of intelligent design on them. If you found a watch out in the middle of nowhere you would never say that it just built itself by random natural processes. Why do people do this with something much more complex like life itself? Evolution can't account for the origin of life ,and it never will. Evolutionary theory breaks the law of biogenesis. Life only comes from life. I would ask you to research information theory. I think it will enlighten you a little about just what we are dealing with when it comes to the fact that there is only the possibility that God exists.
written by Cerebrum123 , December 03, 2011
I am not a Muslim ,and do not believe the Quran. I am a Christian ,and believe in Jesus Christ as my savior. The Bible has proven itself trustworthy over and over again. The Bible is the truth. God has revealed Himself to mankind in 2 main ways. First in His written word the Bible ,and second in the person Jesus Christ. Even the natural world testifies to His glory. Even a single celled organism is far more complex than anything mankind has even come close to achieving. There is no evidence of a multivese ,and string theory is as flimsy as what it is named after. These and many other things being proclaimed to the world as "science" are simply man's feeble attempts at disguising the fact that this universe has a Designer. God created this universe and everything in it. And it is very visible to those who do not willfully blind themselves to the obvious. Everything we see in existence has all of the earmarks of intelligent design on them. If you found a watch out in the middle of nowhere you would never say that it just built itself by random natural processes. Why do people do this with something much more complex like life itself? Evolution can't account for the origin of life ,and it never will. Evolutionary theory breaks the law of biogenesis. Life only comes from life. I would ask you to research information theory. I think it will enlighten you a little about just what we are dealing with when it comes to the fact that there is only the possibility that God exists. Second attempt to post this.
written by Yibel , December 12, 2011
Yahshua (Jesus) declared hinself to be the Son of YHVH in the following passages:
Matthew 7:21, 10:32-33, 11:25-27, 12:50, 15:13, 16:17, 16:27, 18:10, 18:19, 18:35, 20:23, 24:36, 25:34, 26:39, 26:42, 26:53, 27:43, 28:18
Mark 13:32, 14:36
Luke 10:21-22, 11:13, 23:34, 23:46, 24:49
John 1:14, 3:35, 5:17, 5:19-23, 5:26, 5:30-32, 5:36-37, 5:45, 6:27, 6:29, 6:32, 6:36-40, 6:43-47, 6:57, 6:65, 8:16-19, 8:28-29, 8:38, 8:49, 8:54, 10:15, 10:17-18, 10:29-32, 10:36-38, 11:41-42, 12:26-28, 12:44-50, 13:1-3, 13:31-32, 14:2, 14:6, 14:9-21, 14:23-31, 15:1-27, 16:1-33, 17:1-26, 18:11, 18:36-37, 19:11, 20:17, 20:21
Acts 2:22-36, 3:13-26, 4:10, 4:26-30, 5:30-32, 7:55, 8:37-38, 10:34-48
Moses foretold his coming, calling him a great prophet. Deut. 18:15-18
The very design of the Ark of the Covenant: A Mercy Seat (Throne/Power) with two cherubims, one at each end. "...I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power..." Mt 26:64 Yahshua is the cherub called Righteousness.
Yahshua was brought up on the charge of calling himself The Son of God.
The actual charge against Yahshua was of being a magician and fooling the people. He was sentenced to be stoned to death, but some members of the Sanhedrian were afraid of an uprising against them, so they turned him over to the Roman's by accusing him of declaring himself King, thus violating Roman law. The Romans found him guilty and hanged him. This account of the trial is written in the Talmud.
Google "Arianism" and "Arian controversy" for information about how the trinity concept evolved over time.
Matthew 7:21, 10:32-33, 11:25-27, 12:50, 15:13, 16:17, 16:27, 18:10, 18:19, 18:35, 20:23, 24:36, 25:34, 26:39, 26:42, 26:53, 27:43, 28:18
Mark 13:32, 14:36
Luke 10:21-22, 11:13, 23:34, 23:46, 24:49
John 1:14, 3:35, 5:17, 5:19-23, 5:26, 5:30-32, 5:36-37, 5:45, 6:27, 6:29, 6:32, 6:36-40, 6:43-47, 6:57, 6:65, 8:16-19, 8:28-29, 8:38, 8:49, 8:54, 10:15, 10:17-18, 10:29-32, 10:36-38, 11:41-42, 12:26-28, 12:44-50, 13:1-3, 13:31-32, 14:2, 14:6, 14:9-21, 14:23-31, 15:1-27, 16:1-33, 17:1-26, 18:11, 18:36-37, 19:11, 20:17, 20:21
Acts 2:22-36, 3:13-26, 4:10, 4:26-30, 5:30-32, 7:55, 8:37-38, 10:34-48
Moses foretold his coming, calling him a great prophet. Deut. 18:15-18
The very design of the Ark of the Covenant: A Mercy Seat (Throne/Power) with two cherubims, one at each end. "...I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power..." Mt 26:64 Yahshua is the cherub called Righteousness.
Yahshua was brought up on the charge of calling himself The Son of God.
The actual charge against Yahshua was of being a magician and fooling the people. He was sentenced to be stoned to death, but some members of the Sanhedrian were afraid of an uprising against them, so they turned him over to the Roman's by accusing him of declaring himself King, thus violating Roman law. The Romans found him guilty and hanged him. This account of the trial is written in the Talmud.
Google "Arianism" and "Arian controversy" for information about how the trinity concept evolved over time.
written by Cererum123 , December 13, 2011
The charge the Jews brought against Jesus was blasphemy ,not being a magician. The Talmud is not a highly reliable source especially if you want information about who Jesus really was ,and is. Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
The word Trinity may not be found in the Bible ,but the doctrine certainly is. There are even hints at it in the OT. Here is a link to a very interesting article that discusses the Biblical sources of the doctrine called the Trinity christianthinktank.com/trino1.html
These councils were held not to come up with something new ,but to help explain that which is ALREADY FOUND IN THE BIBLE. The doctrine of the Trinity is a very hard one to grasp. I do not fully comprehend it myself. I suspect nobody can truly know everything there is to know about God. God is infinite ,we are finite. This severely limits our understanding of Him ,but He has revealed Himself to us through the Bible and in the person Jesus Christ. Even John at the beginning of his Gospel states that John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Word mentioned here is Jesus Christ.The early Christian Church recognized the deity of Jesus ,and God's triune nature ,but had not formulated it into a cogent written doctrine until later. However just because they had not officially written into a doctrine until later people will take this later work and deny that the roots for the doctrine itself are actually found IN THE BIBLE. Also God has used what is often called "Progressive Revelation". This means that there are things that were NOT revealed to Abraham ,but WERE revealed to Moses ,and so on throughout Biblical history. Most people reject the trinity simply because it is not named as such in the Bible. This absence of a specific name does not mean that the doctrine is not there. Please read these articles. These answers are far better than I can give over this comment section.
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
The word Trinity may not be found in the Bible ,but the doctrine certainly is. There are even hints at it in the OT. Here is a link to a very interesting article that discusses the Biblical sources of the doctrine called the Trinity christianthinktank.com/trino1.html
These councils were held not to come up with something new ,but to help explain that which is ALREADY FOUND IN THE BIBLE. The doctrine of the Trinity is a very hard one to grasp. I do not fully comprehend it myself. I suspect nobody can truly know everything there is to know about God. God is infinite ,we are finite. This severely limits our understanding of Him ,but He has revealed Himself to us through the Bible and in the person Jesus Christ. Even John at the beginning of his Gospel states that John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Word mentioned here is Jesus Christ.The early Christian Church recognized the deity of Jesus ,and God's triune nature ,but had not formulated it into a cogent written doctrine until later. However just because they had not officially written into a doctrine until later people will take this later work and deny that the roots for the doctrine itself are actually found IN THE BIBLE. Also God has used what is often called "Progressive Revelation". This means that there are things that were NOT revealed to Abraham ,but WERE revealed to Moses ,and so on throughout Biblical history. Most people reject the trinity simply because it is not named as such in the Bible. This absence of a specific name does not mean that the doctrine is not there. Please read these articles. These answers are far better than I can give over this comment section.
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The arabs got this story from zoroastrians. Their prophet (zarathustra) also went on a flying horse to the heavens. This fairytales was also used by the greeks with their flying horse pegasus.
These kind of stories are found in many cultures. Why muslims believe these kind of stories, is beyond rationality. It's actually stupid. Some muslims could be offended now and still it is better then offending Allah.