An erudite Islamic scholar explains why!
“Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and [as to] those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great,and merciful also!” [Quran 4:34]
Islamic clerics never cease to amaze us with their dazzling intellects and their incredible application of truly dizzying logics. Here we have an interview from some MEMRI TV, where a reporter (and I use that term very loosely) has an Islamic Scholar [cleric] explaining the proper ways to beat your wife (or wives as the case may be)!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGHAFxwI2qU&feature=player_embedded
All of the contents below are captioned, because after you watch this video you are probably going to need to read it again since you aren’t going to believe your eyes [I mean ears] the first time around.
Reporter: Would you believe that the European women in our times, yearns for a husband who would be like a guardian to her? I would like to provide the viewers with some statistics: 90% of British women do not want to marry a weak man, who sits down and cries the moment there is a problem. They say: No, such a man looks more like a woman. We want a manly man. Wife beating is a serious accusation [leveled against Islam]. Let us examine this matter bit by bit.
Cleric: Allah honored wives by instating the punishment of beatings.
Reporter: Honored them with beatings? How is this possible?!
Cleric: The Prophet Muhammad said: “Don’t beat her in the face, and do not make her ugly.
See how she is honored? If the husband beats his wife, he must not beat her in the face!”
Even when he beats her, he must not curse her. This is incredible! He beats her in order to discipline her. In addition, there must not be more than ten beatings, and he must not break her bones, injure her, break her teeth, or poke her in the eye... There is a beating etiquette. If he beats to discipline her, he must not raise his hand high. He must beat her from chest level only.
All these things honor thy woman!
She is in need of discipline!!
How should the husband discipline her? Through admonishment!!!
If she is not deterred, he should then refuse to share the bed with her [have sex with her].
If she is not repentant, he should beat her, but there are rules to the beatings. It is forbidden to beat her in the face or make her ugly. When you beat her you must not curse her. Islam forbids this…[?]
Reporter: With what should he beat her? With his bare hands? With an iron rod?
Cleric: If he beats her, the beatings should not be hard, so that they do not leave a mark. He can beat her with a short rod. He must avoid beating her in the face or in places in the head where it hurts. [I believe it is to HIDE these injury visible marks]
The beatings should be on the body and should not come one right after the other. These are all choices made during the process, but beatings are allowed only as a last resort.
The honoring of the wife in Islam is also evident in the fact that the punishment of beating is permissible in one case only: when she refuses to sleep with him.
Reporter: When she refuses to sleep with him?
Cleric: Yes, because where else could the husband go? He wants her, but she refuses. He should begin with admonishment and threats…
Reporter: Allow me to repeat this. A man cannot beat his wife… over food or drink.
Cleric: Beatings are permitted only in this case, which the husband cannot do without.
So, what do you think? Do all of you non-muslim women YEARN for a man who will beat you and instill some discipline in you? And by “discipline”, of course, I mean sexual desire – because the only time it’s acceptable to beat a woman is when she doesn’t want to have sex.
I mean personally I have found that the best way to warm a girl up to amorous advances is with a little punching bag foreplay, but I’m sure you already knew that, right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj0Q9yj-AiM
Comments (113)
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written by Tanstaafl jw , December 16, 2010
Dear duh_swami,
You ask "If it is the husband who needs discipline, who gives it to him?"
This is an easy question for your wacky mullah, who answers the questions other, so called, Muslim experts fear do. Allah beats the husband! Yes, indeed. Allah takes the bad husband (actually, there are no good husbands in Islam) out behind the woodshed and beats him until Allah is satisfied. That is why all Muslim men are butt ugly! This is true. I swear by my "hidden" copy of the Qur'an.
You ask "If it is the husband who needs discipline, who gives it to him?"
This is an easy question for your wacky mullah, who answers the questions other, so called, Muslim experts fear do. Allah beats the husband! Yes, indeed. Allah takes the bad husband (actually, there are no good husbands in Islam) out behind the woodshed and beats him until Allah is satisfied. That is why all Muslim men are butt ugly! This is true. I swear by my "hidden" copy of the Qur'an.
written by Reed Wilson. , December 16, 2010
"Islamic clerics never cease to amaze us with their dazzling intellects and their incredible application of truly dizzying logics".
Your observation is interesting. It is a fact also. More astonishing is the fact that we unnecessarily give importance to the so called Islamic scholars to understand and for interpretation of Quran.
The religious scholars lack legitimacy. Quran does not acknowledge them. No scripture acknowledges them. They are rather condemned in scriptures. They don’t enjoy any respect in the society at large.
The verses of Quran and Bible are very simple. They dont require any special knowledge and mastery on any prerequisite discipline. They are addressed to laymen.
To understand 4:34 it is simple if you know Arabic language. If not then consult translation or a dictionary. We should read previous and following verses.
If there is a mistake in translation that can be picked.
Your observation is interesting. It is a fact also. More astonishing is the fact that we unnecessarily give importance to the so called Islamic scholars to understand and for interpretation of Quran.
The religious scholars lack legitimacy. Quran does not acknowledge them. No scripture acknowledges them. They are rather condemned in scriptures. They don’t enjoy any respect in the society at large.
The verses of Quran and Bible are very simple. They dont require any special knowledge and mastery on any prerequisite discipline. They are addressed to laymen.
To understand 4:34 it is simple if you know Arabic language. If not then consult translation or a dictionary. We should read previous and following verses.
If there is a mistake in translation that can be picked.
written by duh_swami , December 16, 2010
'The verses of Quran and Bible are very simple. They dont require any special knowledge and mastery on any prerequisite discipline. They are addressed to laymen'.
'To understand 4:34 it is simple if you know Arabic language. If not then consult translation or a dictionary'.
So the Quran is simple as long as you can read Arabic or have a dictionary...
You should know that there are lots of people who can read Arabic and do have a dictionary who come to the same conclusion...Allah gave Muslims permission to beat their wives...Of course we all know that your dictionary is a little more accurate than their dictionary...And your interpretation of Quran is just a little more superior than theirs...
'To understand 4:34 it is simple if you know Arabic language. If not then consult translation or a dictionary'.
So the Quran is simple as long as you can read Arabic or have a dictionary...
You should know that there are lots of people who can read Arabic and do have a dictionary who come to the same conclusion...Allah gave Muslims permission to beat their wives...Of course we all know that your dictionary is a little more accurate than their dictionary...And your interpretation of Quran is just a little more superior than theirs...
written by Reed Wilson. , December 17, 2010
Duh-swami. You write “Allah gave Muslims permission to beat their wives”. One meaning of azrabo is counseling in all dictionaries. Even if it is not so, it is interesting that Quran reading people are not beating their wives if you compare with non Quran reading people.
In US 1,181 women were murdered by an intimate partner in 2005. That's an average of three women every day. Of all the women murdered in the U.S., about one-third were killed by an intimate partner.
DOMESTIC VIOLENCE (Intimate Partner Violence or Battering)
Domestic violence can be defined as a pattern of abusive behavior in any relationship that is used by one partner to gain or maintain power and control over an intimate partner. According to the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, women experience about 4.8 million intimate partner-related physical assaults and rapes every year. Less than 20 percent of battered women sought medical treatment following an injury.
According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, which includes crimes that were not reported to the police, 232,960 women in the U.S. were raped or sexually assaulted in 2006. That's more than 600 women every day. Other estimates, such as those generated by the FBI, are much lower because they rely on data from law enforcement agencies. A significant number of crimes are never even reported for reasons that include the victim's feeling that nothing can/will be done and the personal nature of the incident.
Young women, low-income women and some minorities are disproportionately victims of domestic violence and rape. Women ages 20-24 are at greatest risk of nonfatal domestic violence, and women age 24 and under suffer from the highest rates of rape. The Justice Department estimates that one in five women will experience rape or attempted rape during their college years, and that less than five percent of these rapes will be reported. Income is also a factor: the poorer the household, the higher the rate of domestic violence -- with women in the lowest income category experiencing more than six times the rate of nonfatal intimate partner violence as compared to women in the highest income category. When we consider race, we see that African-American women face higher rates of domestic violence than white women, and American-Indian women are victimized at a rate more than double that of women of other races.
Exploitation of weaker, men or women is every where and it is not due to 4:34. Why? You know it. Else, I will tell you. If one wants to beat wife, he does not need permission.
In US 1,181 women were murdered by an intimate partner in 2005. That's an average of three women every day. Of all the women murdered in the U.S., about one-third were killed by an intimate partner.
DOMESTIC VIOLENCE (Intimate Partner Violence or Battering)
Domestic violence can be defined as a pattern of abusive behavior in any relationship that is used by one partner to gain or maintain power and control over an intimate partner. According to the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, women experience about 4.8 million intimate partner-related physical assaults and rapes every year. Less than 20 percent of battered women sought medical treatment following an injury.
According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, which includes crimes that were not reported to the police, 232,960 women in the U.S. were raped or sexually assaulted in 2006. That's more than 600 women every day. Other estimates, such as those generated by the FBI, are much lower because they rely on data from law enforcement agencies. A significant number of crimes are never even reported for reasons that include the victim's feeling that nothing can/will be done and the personal nature of the incident.
Young women, low-income women and some minorities are disproportionately victims of domestic violence and rape. Women ages 20-24 are at greatest risk of nonfatal domestic violence, and women age 24 and under suffer from the highest rates of rape. The Justice Department estimates that one in five women will experience rape or attempted rape during their college years, and that less than five percent of these rapes will be reported. Income is also a factor: the poorer the household, the higher the rate of domestic violence -- with women in the lowest income category experiencing more than six times the rate of nonfatal intimate partner violence as compared to women in the highest income category. When we consider race, we see that African-American women face higher rates of domestic violence than white women, and American-Indian women are victimized at a rate more than double that of women of other races.
Exploitation of weaker, men or women is every where and it is not due to 4:34. Why? You know it. Else, I will tell you. If one wants to beat wife, he does not need permission.
written by Reed Wilson. , December 17, 2010
duh-swami. In my post above I claimed "The religious scholars lack legitimacy. Quran does not acknowledge them. No scripture acknowledges them. They are rather condemned in scriptures. They don’t enjoy any respect in the society at large".
Do you agree the above?
Do you agree the above?
written by duh_swami , December 17, 2010
None of the wife beaters in America have a God and a book that tells them that beating their wife is acceptable, they get arrested for that...It does not matter what your interpretation is, the reality is that 1.2 billion pious Muslims think it is just fine to beat their wife...mostly because of 4:34...
You can't erase that with a weak interpretation...There is no compelling reason to take your word for it...
You can't erase that with a weak interpretation...There is no compelling reason to take your word for it...
written by Abu Taleb , December 17, 2010
Reed,
I think you will never admit that there are so many Quran reading people who beat women, a lot more than other people. Why don't you check countries like Egypt or Pakistan which has a more open environment for the news media than Saudi Arabia?
I think you will never admit that there are so many Quran reading people who beat women, a lot more than other people. Why don't you check countries like Egypt or Pakistan which has a more open environment for the news media than Saudi Arabia?
written by amboyduke , December 17, 2010
The Mooslims treat their women like chattel. Worse.
How about the Koran discussing the value of women as less than goats, etc. etc.?
There's that repulsive video of the Saudi Arabian Minister of something or other telling the Saudi men how to beat their women so as not to leave any bruising where it can be seene, and ESPECIALLY so as not to leave her ugly! etc.etc.
INSANITY!
How about the Koran discussing the value of women as less than goats, etc. etc.?
There's that repulsive video of the Saudi Arabian Minister of something or other telling the Saudi men how to beat their women so as not to leave any bruising where it can be seene, and ESPECIALLY so as not to leave her ugly! etc.etc.
INSANITY!
written by jai kafir hind , December 17, 2010
to reed wilson...pls go to saudi arabia/pakistan and say mullas dont
enjoy/deserve any respect and see what happens
u will be roasted alive.
pls stop yr stupid antics and accept that islam like all monoatheist ideology is flawed and fit
for the dustbin,i left this hateful ideology 18 - 19 yrs ago,when wwill u ?
enjoy/deserve any respect and see what happens
u will be roasted alive.
pls stop yr stupid antics and accept that islam like all monoatheist ideology is flawed and fit
for the dustbin,i left this hateful ideology 18 - 19 yrs ago,when wwill u ?
written by Reed Wilson. , December 18, 2010
To jai kafir hind. You have questioned a part of my post to Mr. Lennard James. I repeat:
"The religious scholars lack legitimacy. Quran does not acknowledge them. No scripture acknowledges them. They are rather condemned in scriptures. They don’t enjoy any respect in the society at large".
You write "pls go to saudi arabia/pakistan and say mullas dont enjoy/deserve any respect and see what happens.u will be roasted alive".
Fine. Does it contradict me? They do not enjoy respect. See their literature. It is also a fact that they are condemned in all scriptures. They lack legitimacy. Illegitimate!
Good you accepted the rest of my post.
"The religious scholars lack legitimacy. Quran does not acknowledge them. No scripture acknowledges them. They are rather condemned in scriptures. They don’t enjoy any respect in the society at large".
You write "pls go to saudi arabia/pakistan and say mullas dont enjoy/deserve any respect and see what happens.u will be roasted alive".
Fine. Does it contradict me? They do not enjoy respect. See their literature. It is also a fact that they are condemned in all scriptures. They lack legitimacy. Illegitimate!
Good you accepted the rest of my post.
written by Abu Taleb , December 18, 2010
Reed, if you claim the religious scholars lack legitimacy, then who has the legitimacy, you?
Those scholars are certainly the Quran reading people, and yet they advocate beating women, and certainly the Quran reading people are the ones who beat women the most. Are you going to continue denying it by only pointing fingers to the non muslims who beat women?
Those scholars are certainly the Quran reading people, and yet they advocate beating women, and certainly the Quran reading people are the ones who beat women the most. Are you going to continue denying it by only pointing fingers to the non muslims who beat women?
written by jai kafir hind , December 18, 2010
to reed wilson...if mullas r illegitimate who is legitimate ?? you ?? or infidels like alisina,m.a.khan etc ... who ???
u hv lost yr mind and r a dead zombie serving a hateful terrorist ideology-islam.
i dont acceopt yr post in part or full at all,islam is a hoax like judauism and christianity,that is the truth.
u hv lost yr mind and r a dead zombie serving a hateful terrorist ideology-islam.
i dont acceopt yr post in part or full at all,islam is a hoax like judauism and christianity,that is the truth.
written by jai kafir hind , December 18, 2010
reed wilson if u truly believe in imaginary allah and consider jihadi muhamed as his
only prophet...pls do this and post pcis on this site...or links.
go to saudi and pakistan and tell the main mullas they r illegitimate and not legitimate.
pls see if u come out alive.
written by Machmoed , December 18, 2010
Duh,
The reason that a man can't be beaten by his wife is because according to qur'an the man is suprior to a woman. A man is worth twice as woman. In court (sharia law) one woman is not enough to reach a verdict, there are at least 2 of them needed in case the other woman forgets. Women are less in three things according to the messenger (hadith) these are: intelligence, faith and gratitude.
How can a muslimwoman beat her husband while she believes she in inferior to him. Only a kafir woman will do such things.
The reason that a man can't be beaten by his wife is because according to qur'an the man is suprior to a woman. A man is worth twice as woman. In court (sharia law) one woman is not enough to reach a verdict, there are at least 2 of them needed in case the other woman forgets. Women are less in three things according to the messenger (hadith) these are: intelligence, faith and gratitude.
How can a muslimwoman beat her husband while she believes she in inferior to him. Only a kafir woman will do such things.
written by Abu Taleb , December 18, 2010
Another reason why a man can not be beaten by his wife is that the man has purchased the woman by paying a dowry, so the man owns the whole body and the service of the woman. Therefore, a muslim can rape his wive without getting rebuked by his satanic god. It is a business contract, and the contract can be nullified by saying one word three times, "talak, talak, talak".
What a great religion for rapists, woman beaters, sex maniacs and, of course, paedophiles.
What a great religion for rapists, woman beaters, sex maniacs and, of course, paedophiles.
written by Clement-Islam-Watch Pastor , December 18, 2010
It is a bitty that some people see scriptures for guidance in the Quran. What do you expect man's possition to be in his relationship to the woman when he was to dicide the short. The same would have happened if woman was to create a religion like Islam the possition of women would have been superior to that of the man. In this instance alone one can see clearly that Islam is man's creation with intent to dominate and control the woman spiritually and phesically without any regards whatsover. It is unfortunate that inteligent people like Reed Wilson still considers the Quran as the Word of God.
written by Dev , December 18, 2010
Heaven is due to outlook of people towards life, who live in a place. If people are stupid, inconsiderate and blindly selfish, they can make hell of any heaven in few days, Kashmir and Pakistan are current examples.
Anyway I don’t think bride/woman is purchased in Heaven, sometimes what happens is that bride parents may not have enough budget to arrange for a big party but the bridegroom want to bring all his friends and relatives to bride house in his marriage procession. To diffuse this conflict of interest, it becomes practical that bride side make arrangements for the party and the groom side pay for it and bring as many guests with them as they want.
Its not about purchasing the woman, its about sharing the costs of partying by bridegroom and his guests at the bride house.
Anyway I don’t think bride/woman is purchased in Heaven, sometimes what happens is that bride parents may not have enough budget to arrange for a big party but the bridegroom want to bring all his friends and relatives to bride house in his marriage procession. To diffuse this conflict of interest, it becomes practical that bride side make arrangements for the party and the groom side pay for it and bring as many guests with them as they want.
Its not about purchasing the woman, its about sharing the costs of partying by bridegroom and his guests at the bride house.
written by Rationalist , December 18, 2010
Reed should explain why translators such as Yusufali, Pickthal, shakir and others translated 4.34 differently to what he (Reed) says. Did not they know Arabic? Reed is resorting to absurd arguments by saying that one should know Arabic to understand Quran. When all scholars of Islam translate 4.34 correctly, why Reed is saying something else? It is mainly because his inner conscience says 4.34 is absurd. People like him come up with mumbo-jumbo translations to protect the dignity of Muhemmed. There are only two things Muslims can do: a) give up islam, or b) sugarcoat verses to fool people and stay in Islam.
written by dead or alive , December 18, 2010
...was not a good one. in early 1980s i move to a small city here in stateside .A few blocks from me a Islam center moved in and all of a sudden there were people hanging around outside on the street wearing strange outfits and it was not halloween,I made it a point to steer clear and walk on the other side of the street. There was an indoor food market 5 blocks away where i shopped. One day as i was walking on the right side of isle as close to the vendors table as possible,five muslim women wearing outfits head to foot,lined them selfs shoulder to shoulder across the whole isle so i could not pass.So i walked though 2 of them touching and turning them side ways and kept walking.Then one of the muslims threw and hit me on the back of my head with something and i turned around and all 5 were walking like noting happen.I looked at the vendors and they all had their heads down and no one pointed out who did it.I never returned to that market I heard years latter that the market turned into a filthy dump and the neighborhood a ghetto.t
written by A-R khan , December 19, 2010
we (women), black dogs and Devil are equal dirty in the eye of Muhammad.
A woman is valuable, is a mother and a sister too, and the Creator has extended his love, respect, affection, grace and mercy to women in all areas of life. These relations are the basis of love, respect and they are strengthened in the form of a woman being a wife and bearing children, which then spreads to the whole of humanity. however, Muhammad disrespect us, we have to worship day/night for his created idols (men) and we are just slaves.
A woman is valuable, is a mother and a sister too, and the Creator has extended his love, respect, affection, grace and mercy to women in all areas of life. These relations are the basis of love, respect and they are strengthened in the form of a woman being a wife and bearing children, which then spreads to the whole of humanity. however, Muhammad disrespect us, we have to worship day/night for his created idols (men) and we are just slaves.
written by Reed Wilson. , December 19, 2010
Rationalist. Why"Reed should explain why translators such as Yusufali, Pickthal, shakir and others translated 4.34 differently to what he (Reed) says. Did not they know Arabic?
Reed referred dictionary meaning of the word.
In 36:13 وَاضْرِبْ لَهُم مَّثَلًا أَصْحَابَ الْقَرْيَةِ إِذْ جَاءَهَا الْمُرْسَلُونَ same Pickthal translates the meaning of wazrib as Coin for them a similitude: The people of the city when those sent came unto them; and Yousuf Ali as "Set forth to them, by way of a parable". Both dont say beat them.
"Reed is resorting to absurd arguments by saying that one should know Arabic to understand Quran".What is your solution?
Reed referred dictionary meaning of the word.
In 36:13 وَاضْرِبْ لَهُم مَّثَلًا أَصْحَابَ الْقَرْيَةِ إِذْ جَاءَهَا الْمُرْسَلُونَ same Pickthal translates the meaning of wazrib as Coin for them a similitude: The people of the city when those sent came unto them; and Yousuf Ali as "Set forth to them, by way of a parable". Both dont say beat them.
"Reed is resorting to absurd arguments by saying that one should know Arabic to understand Quran".What is your solution?
written by Reed Wilson. , December 19, 2010
Dead alive. I have sympathies with you. You write "Then one of the muslims threw and hit me on the back of my head with something and i turned around and all 5 were walking like noting happened. I looked at the vendors and they all had their heads down and no one pointed out who did it".
How could you check up if they were muslims? You say 'one of them' and also say no one pointed out who did it. You are not telling everything.
Good you decided not to revisit the mysterious place.
How could you check up if they were muslims? You say 'one of them' and also say no one pointed out who did it. You are not telling everything.
Good you decided not to revisit the mysterious place.
written by Reed Wilson. , December 19, 2010
To A-R khan. You write "We (women), black dogs and Devil are equal dirty in the eye of Muhammad". You might be saying this on the basis of some hadith. I may not believe in hadith but I can quote a contradictory hadith below:
The Prophet is reported to have said:
حبِّب إليَّ من دنياكم النساء والطيب ، وجعلت قرة عيني في الصلاة
“Made beloved to me from your world are women and perfume, and the coolness of my eyes is in prayer.” (Ahmad and An-Nasa ‘i)
Which one you would believe madam? The one on basis of which you have all the grumbling or the one quoted by me?
The Prophet is reported to have said:
حبِّب إليَّ من دنياكم النساء والطيب ، وجعلت قرة عيني في الصلاة
“Made beloved to me from your world are women and perfume, and the coolness of my eyes is in prayer.” (Ahmad and An-Nasa ‘i)
Which one you would believe madam? The one on basis of which you have all the grumbling or the one quoted by me?
written by dead or alive , December 19, 2010
Did you ever see the movie Midnight Express? You remind me of that muslim Turk prosecutor in the court of law before a muslim judge and no jury, Just one white girl reporter ready to wire news of hell hole prison back to the states.The American convict had a muslim public defender . All this did take place for real in Istanbul Turkey.
written by Abu Taleb , December 19, 2010
Reed Wilson seems to acknowledge that his prophet is a sex maniac who treats women the same as perfume. He can use any woman as many times as he wants just like he uses perfume.
written by Rationalist , December 19, 2010
Reed: Both dont say beat them.
======
Here are the translations from Yusufali and Pickthal for 4.34
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
Mr. Wilson, one uses "beat them (lightly)" and the other uses "scourge them." Shakir translates it as " beat them". I can quote from other translators. All mean the same. Tell me, which one should I trust? The sugar-coated Reed Wilson's or the renowned translations from Yusufali, Pickthal, and others?
======
Here are the translations from Yusufali and Pickthal for 4.34
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
Mr. Wilson, one uses "beat them (lightly)" and the other uses "scourge them." Shakir translates it as " beat them". I can quote from other translators. All mean the same. Tell me, which one should I trust? The sugar-coated Reed Wilson's or the renowned translations from Yusufali, Pickthal, and others?
written by jai kafir hind , December 20, 2010
reed wilson thanks for informing me that n islam women r a perfume or like a perfume
u can use and use,or change at will.
alhamdullillaaaaaa
written by duh_swami , December 20, 2010
Does Reed Wilson make sense to you? How do you do it? What is your method?
written by Tanstaafl jw , December 20, 2010
Reed Wilson is Allah. He knows all, sees all and tells a darn sight more.......... He is all-powerful and all-knowing and if we don't start worshipping him, he will smite us a surely as Mohammed (the original Allah) married a six year old.
written by dead or alive , December 20, 2010
...was used because desert people could not bathe because of lack of water.
written by lw1 , December 20, 2010
You wrote ' The Prophet is reported to have said: "Made beloved to me from your world are women and perfume, and coolness of my eyes is in prayer" (Ahamad and An-Nasa'i).
Is this from Quran? You believe only in Quran and you disqualify as non-muslims anyone who relies on anything else.
If the above quote is not from Quran ------- you are DISQUALIFYING yourself.
Is this from Quran? You believe only in Quran and you disqualify as non-muslims anyone who relies on anything else.
If the above quote is not from Quran ------- you are DISQUALIFYING yourself.
written by lw1 , December 20, 2010
1 person who harrasses or causes destruction
2 means of inflicting punishment or suffering
3 A whip used for inflicting punishment or torture
4 To whip
5 To punish severely
2 means of inflicting punishment or suffering
3 A whip used for inflicting punishment or torture
4 To whip
5 To punish severely
written by jai kafir hind , December 20, 2010
this is funny i like the fun and sarcasm keep it up all and reed wilson bcoz r-w is providing some comic relief just
like all mullas etc...
like all mullas etc...
written by William East , December 20, 2010
Women are reduced to half the abilty of a man when reporting an event witnessed? Simply not true. The claim in itself proves the koran to be false.
Yes Reed, It is true that once a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ that individual enjoys eternal security. At the point of faith in Christ the Righteousness of God is imputed to the believer. This imputation is based on the effficacious work of Jesus Christ who became sin that we might become the Righteousness of God thru Him. The success of the plan depends on the Intergrity of God and not man. What baffles me is that you are attracted the mutterings of a man with a false claim, one who teaches a legalistic system that seeks to appease the infinite Holiness of God thru ritualistic washing, prayer and a multitude of practices and observances. God cannot be reduced to such devices. Instead the hope of Islam hinges on the works of limited, finite, mortal man.
Back to the message of koran concerning women. Women have every mental capacity that a man can claim, futhermore, they nurture life itself which man cannot do. They may be physically weaker but there is no shame in such a condition.
I'm thankful that our friend A R Khan remains as a witness to us. She is far braver than most anyone posting here and that includes me. We should be thankful and motivated by her courage to speak her mind in spite of the oppressive mind numbing doctrine called Islam.
Yes Reed, It is true that once a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ that individual enjoys eternal security. At the point of faith in Christ the Righteousness of God is imputed to the believer. This imputation is based on the effficacious work of Jesus Christ who became sin that we might become the Righteousness of God thru Him. The success of the plan depends on the Intergrity of God and not man. What baffles me is that you are attracted the mutterings of a man with a false claim, one who teaches a legalistic system that seeks to appease the infinite Holiness of God thru ritualistic washing, prayer and a multitude of practices and observances. God cannot be reduced to such devices. Instead the hope of Islam hinges on the works of limited, finite, mortal man.
Back to the message of koran concerning women. Women have every mental capacity that a man can claim, futhermore, they nurture life itself which man cannot do. They may be physically weaker but there is no shame in such a condition.
I'm thankful that our friend A R Khan remains as a witness to us. She is far braver than most anyone posting here and that includes me. We should be thankful and motivated by her courage to speak her mind in spite of the oppressive mind numbing doctrine called Islam.
written by Read…hi , December 21, 2010
I come back after long absences with the feeling perhaps something has changed like Mr Wilson's blind obsession with Quran and never ending defiance of the undefinable ….but …no…in 4:34…the word …edrobehona ..still you insist it dose not mean....hit..beat…scourge a women ..you are trying to fool people when you give deferent meaning to the word hit …like …edrob mathalan .the word Edrob …means hit when it is written alone but of course when it is fallowed by mathalan …then it will mean …TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE ….ALL LANGUISHES SHARED ONE THING, IS THE MANY MEANINGS OF ONE WORD ESPECIALLY ENGLISH …talking about stating the obvious ….for example chest,stand, fan ….in Arabic there is plenty of words that share a spilling and has a different meaning when it followed by anther word to define it …for example …katala al ragol …kill a man ..it comes as …katala al waket …kill time ...also …thahaba is left and gold ..all I am trying to say in the end …the word …hit in 4:34 …it only means beating a women because it was not followed by the word example to change the meaning …oK ….there is a lot of readers here who are born to Arabic languish and can not be fooled because they do not rely
on translations to understand …please …be truthful …no respect comes after lying.
on translations to understand …please …be truthful …no respect comes after lying.
written by fineliving56 , December 21, 2010
sorry…the post that says …written by Read hi …is wrong ….it is written by yours truly ..fineliving56 …OPS …I made a mistake …
written by Abu Taleb , December 21, 2010
Reed Wilson is the new prophet-god because he can always decide which verse or hadith is the true one, and also he is the only one who knows the correct translation of Quran. Whatever verse or hadith suits him, it is the one he uses, doesn't matter if he contradicts himself with what he has said previously.
But it is not only Reed Wilson who does that, most muslims do the same.
But it is not only Reed Wilson who does that, most muslims do the same.
written by Reed Wilson. , December 21, 2010
fineliving56. You write "sorry…the post that says …written by Read hi …is wrong ….it is written by yours truly ..fineliving56 …OPS …I made a mistake".
Dont be sorry. It is alright. Thanks for correction.
Dont be sorry. It is alright. Thanks for correction.
written by Reed Wilson. , December 21, 2010
To Abu Taleb. You write “Reed Wilson is the new prophet-god because he can always decide which verse or hadith is the true one, and also he is the only one who knows the correct translation of Quran”.
New prophet god in cyberspace! What he is going to get? He doesn’t accept hadith. There are so many promising hadiths. “If you perform ablution your past sins are forgiven”. It is no good news for him. He has to be careful.
Most ‘muslims’ blindly accept every hadis and ignore Quran altogether. If they read Quran, they would not know that the hadiths are fake, blasphemous and misguiding.
New prophet god in cyberspace! What he is going to get? He doesn’t accept hadith. There are so many promising hadiths. “If you perform ablution your past sins are forgiven”. It is no good news for him. He has to be careful.
Most ‘muslims’ blindly accept every hadis and ignore Quran altogether. If they read Quran, they would not know that the hadiths are fake, blasphemous and misguiding.
written by Reed Wilson. , December 21, 2010
Please read as "If they read Quran, they would know that the hadiths are fake, blasphemous and misguiding".
written by Reed Wilson. , December 21, 2010
William East. “Women are reduced to half the abilty of a man when reporting an event witnessed? Yes, it is not true. Even one witness is not enough and sometimes hundreds male witnesses may not suffice. In one specific case two women are needed. Two do not make one.
Please find a better proof.
Please find a better proof.
written by duh_swami , December 21, 2010
"If they read Quran, they would know that the hadiths are fake, blasphemous and misguiding".
So a billion or so Muslims don't read Quran...Actually a lot of Muslims are illiterate and depend on the local Imam to tell them what is what...But for the ones that do read it, in Arabic even, don't quite seem to get the same message Reed gets. So Reed seeks to correct them, by coming to Islam watch and correcting the authors and posters here...
This is called misdirected energy...He really needs to go to the nearest mosque and tell it to them...They are almost all deluded and lost in a haze of hadiths...They desperately need Reed to help them get their minds right...
So a billion or so Muslims don't read Quran...Actually a lot of Muslims are illiterate and depend on the local Imam to tell them what is what...But for the ones that do read it, in Arabic even, don't quite seem to get the same message Reed gets. So Reed seeks to correct them, by coming to Islam watch and correcting the authors and posters here...
This is called misdirected energy...He really needs to go to the nearest mosque and tell it to them...They are almost all deluded and lost in a haze of hadiths...They desperately need Reed to help them get their minds right...
written by Machmoed , December 21, 2010
If they read the qur'an, they would know it's not the word of God.
written by William East , December 21, 2010
Reed,
It is my understanding that the koran proclaims that the witness of two women is needed to counter the word of one man. Is this correct? And while we are at it that also a woman requires five males witnesses to prove rape? So let's work out an agreement as to the conditions stated in the koran concerning the value of a woman's word in a matter, her integrity, her veracity. Surely women are equals with men in these matters. Correct?
It is my understanding that the koran proclaims that the witness of two women is needed to counter the word of one man. Is this correct? And while we are at it that also a woman requires five males witnesses to prove rape? So let's work out an agreement as to the conditions stated in the koran concerning the value of a woman's word in a matter, her integrity, her veracity. Surely women are equals with men in these matters. Correct?
written by fineliving56 , December 21, 2010
The Question is …NOT… how many man or women witnessed a crime at one time …..the question …IS ….how many women …EQUALs ….how many man can testify in court ….and in Islam …2 women to 1 man and that equals a disaster in islamic courts because it is hared enough to find one witness let a lone two …in my mind Quran lack the wisdom to know that …a god should a least have known that ..right …but again Quran was never brought or written by God …and the evidence is all over Quran …and you Reed and people like are too blind to see that …for the infatuation is too great …it is similar to early stages of a love story …it starts with both sides too busy to see flaws in each other and dive right in to marriage and after a while the infatuation clears and dents show so clear only a divorce is the only solution …and that is what happening to so many muslims …divorce from Islam is the only natural end.
written by Abu Taleb , December 21, 2010
Reed,
Isn't that an irony, the majority of the muslims do not read Quran and they are the more peaceful people than the ulamas who read Quran?
As a conclusion, doesn't that mean that Quran advocates violence?
You are contradicting yourself, you said hadiths were fake, blasphemous and misguiding, and yet you use hadtihs whenever it suits you. And you keep attacking the ulamas who read Quran and use hadiths, didn't you say "If they read Quran, they would know that the hadiths are fake, blasphemous and misguiding"?
Isn't that an irony, the majority of the muslims do not read Quran and they are the more peaceful people than the ulamas who read Quran?
As a conclusion, doesn't that mean that Quran advocates violence?
You are contradicting yourself, you said hadiths were fake, blasphemous and misguiding, and yet you use hadtihs whenever it suits you. And you keep attacking the ulamas who read Quran and use hadiths, didn't you say "If they read Quran, they would know that the hadiths are fake, blasphemous and misguiding"?
written by A-R khan , December 21, 2010
We have a serious situation and cannot reply for questions, however, what I have said; it is based on the following.
“When one of you prays without a sutrah, a dog, an ass, a pig, a Jew, a Magian, and a woman cut off his prayer, but it will suffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stone's throw”. Abu Dawud 2:704 (while a man is praying and a woman passes from his front side it will break his pray). Now if one wants to see this in reality he can observes this is very common in our (pashtune) society.
In case of the prophet love with women, in this hadith, the word “women” is used as “sex”. The picture of his life shows that the most he loved with was sex. The humanity love food, perfume, cars and horse and they give them different position, title, respect and level. What is the level of women according to the prophet?
So their level is like slaves and prisoners in the hands of men.
I command you good-will for your wives, for they are your captives.
See the speech of prophet in his last pilgrimage (khutbah hijja-ul-widagh). Ibne- ishaq/Tabary and
Ibn Hisham, al-Sira al-nabawiyya, page/ 4:251.
“When one of you prays without a sutrah, a dog, an ass, a pig, a Jew, a Magian, and a woman cut off his prayer, but it will suffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stone's throw”. Abu Dawud 2:704 (while a man is praying and a woman passes from his front side it will break his pray). Now if one wants to see this in reality he can observes this is very common in our (pashtune) society.
In case of the prophet love with women, in this hadith, the word “women” is used as “sex”. The picture of his life shows that the most he loved with was sex. The humanity love food, perfume, cars and horse and they give them different position, title, respect and level. What is the level of women according to the prophet?
So their level is like slaves and prisoners in the hands of men.
I command you good-will for your wives, for they are your captives.
See the speech of prophet in his last pilgrimage (khutbah hijja-ul-widagh). Ibne- ishaq/Tabary and
Ibn Hisham, al-Sira al-nabawiyya, page/ 4:251.
written by Lennard James , December 22, 2010
I admire ur frankness in ur post. Yes Pashtuns are very conservatives and there is a saying "Shah se ziyada Shah ke wafadar". So when one has to see the REAL Muslims practicing their religious creeds, then one has to see the Pashtuns in action.
I pity their mental fatigues!
I pity their mental fatigues!
written by Machmoed , December 22, 2010
Muhammad did not invent the concept of the seven layers of Heaven. He merely parroted it without understanding the Pagan origin of this idea.
He wrote:
“So He ordained them seven heavens in two periods, and revealed in every heaven its affair; and We adorned the lower heaven with brilliant stars… “(Fussilat 41: 12)
This verse has nothing to do with layers of the atmospheres as claimed by the charlatan Harun Yahya. It has to do with the geocentric concept of the universe that was prevalent at the time of Muhammad. Note also that according to Muhammad, stars are lamps that are affixed to the ceiling of the lower layer of the Heaven for adornment purposes. The lower level is the sphere of the Moon. Obviously stars are not in the same layer where Moon is and neither the Moon nor the stars are in the lower atmosphere of the Earth.
Not only Muhammad, like other men of his time, believed that the sky had seven layers, he also thought that the Earth was made of seven layers too.
“Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number…” [Quran 65.12]
In this verse the number of the earths is not in question. It assumes that everyone agrees that there are seven earths. The emphasis is on the claim that Allah is the creator of these seven earths. The reason is because just like the seven heavens, the ancient people had agreed that there were also seven layers of earth. Muhammad was simply stating what seemed to be obvious to the people of his time but of course he was dead wrong according to the modern science.
It is not hard to see these tales are nonsense. These are fairy tales that even children today would laugh at.
As it has been proven time and again, Quran is wrong in almost all its assertions.
Yet Muslims desperately keep looking for “miracles” to fool themselves and find validation for their belief.
It’s a shame really.
He wrote:
“So He ordained them seven heavens in two periods, and revealed in every heaven its affair; and We adorned the lower heaven with brilliant stars… “(Fussilat 41: 12)
This verse has nothing to do with layers of the atmospheres as claimed by the charlatan Harun Yahya. It has to do with the geocentric concept of the universe that was prevalent at the time of Muhammad. Note also that according to Muhammad, stars are lamps that are affixed to the ceiling of the lower layer of the Heaven for adornment purposes. The lower level is the sphere of the Moon. Obviously stars are not in the same layer where Moon is and neither the Moon nor the stars are in the lower atmosphere of the Earth.
Not only Muhammad, like other men of his time, believed that the sky had seven layers, he also thought that the Earth was made of seven layers too.
“Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number…” [Quran 65.12]
In this verse the number of the earths is not in question. It assumes that everyone agrees that there are seven earths. The emphasis is on the claim that Allah is the creator of these seven earths. The reason is because just like the seven heavens, the ancient people had agreed that there were also seven layers of earth. Muhammad was simply stating what seemed to be obvious to the people of his time but of course he was dead wrong according to the modern science.
It is not hard to see these tales are nonsense. These are fairy tales that even children today would laugh at.
As it has been proven time and again, Quran is wrong in almost all its assertions.
Yet Muslims desperately keep looking for “miracles” to fool themselves and find validation for their belief.
It’s a shame really.
written by Machmoed , December 22, 2010
Qur'an about Islam!
The only religion is the religion of Allah, Islam-16:52
Muslims (Islam) are the best of righteous people...3:110
Allah has perfected Islam and it is the only religion for mankind (last verse revealed, and so, the final word of Allah disclosed to Muhammad)...5:3
Islam is the perfect religion; it will dominate all other religions...9:33
Can't worship anything other than Allah; Islam is the only right religion (the purpose of an Islamic state)...12:40
There is only one God and all should bow to Islam...21:108
Allah proclaims Islam (the religion of truth) over all other religion..48:28
Allah has sent Muhammad to proclaim the 'Religion of Truth' (Islam) over all religions...61:9
What happens to those people who, despite the call to convert to Islam, do not follow suit? In the language of the Qur'an, they are worse than animals, believe it or not. Here is how the Holy Qur'an grades the Kafirs (infidels).
The worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are the deaf and dumb (unbelievers) who do not understand Islam...8:22
According to Reed these muslims (majority of them) do not understand islam as it should be. Muslims are the worst creatures because they don't understand islam Right Reed?
Furthermore: some like Reed believe all religions propagate the same thing..unity of God.
Islam is about rituals in order to worship Allah, otherwise Allah is not going to accept or understand your prayers. What a crippled ideology islam is.
If you're want to be a good muslim, don't listen to the voice in you. Just obey and follow like a donkey who has no concept of anything.
The only religion is the religion of Allah, Islam-16:52
Muslims (Islam) are the best of righteous people...3:110
Allah has perfected Islam and it is the only religion for mankind (last verse revealed, and so, the final word of Allah disclosed to Muhammad)...5:3
Islam is the perfect religion; it will dominate all other religions...9:33
Can't worship anything other than Allah; Islam is the only right religion (the purpose of an Islamic state)...12:40
There is only one God and all should bow to Islam...21:108
Allah proclaims Islam (the religion of truth) over all other religion..48:28
Allah has sent Muhammad to proclaim the 'Religion of Truth' (Islam) over all religions...61:9
What happens to those people who, despite the call to convert to Islam, do not follow suit? In the language of the Qur'an, they are worse than animals, believe it or not. Here is how the Holy Qur'an grades the Kafirs (infidels).
The worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are the deaf and dumb (unbelievers) who do not understand Islam...8:22
According to Reed these muslims (majority of them) do not understand islam as it should be. Muslims are the worst creatures because they don't understand islam Right Reed?
Furthermore: some like Reed believe all religions propagate the same thing..unity of God.
Islam is about rituals in order to worship Allah, otherwise Allah is not going to accept or understand your prayers. What a crippled ideology islam is.
If you're want to be a good muslim, don't listen to the voice in you. Just obey and follow like a donkey who has no concept of anything.
written by duh_swami , December 22, 2010
Islam is a vehicle for ARAB supremacy...Allah is an Arab, Mohammad was an Arab, Gabriel was an Arab, the Quran was written in Arabic, Arabs, according Mohammad, are the best of peoples, best looking and have the best hair...Arabs are then the best...All of Islam is for them, and them only...Muslims who are not Arabs are equal, but not quite as equal as Arabs...Non Arab Muslims are the dhimmi's when no kufrs are around...If there is an Arab Muslim, and a Black ('Raisin head' according to Mo) Muslim in the kitchen, guess which one is going to take out the garbage? Allah is then a racist, a sexist, an admitted terrorist (Quran 8:12), he may not participate in child molestation or rape, but he likes to watch...This would all be really bad if Allah was a real god, but he is not...He is invented by ARABS seeking their own power money and women, if it was good enough for Mohammad, it's good enough for them...Allah willing, and he always is...
written by fineliving56 , December 22, 2010
Arabs will never except non Arab muslims as complete muslims and the reason is the Language …having lived among them, I have sensed it and some times have seen it. Mosques in so many western cities are being divided …they start as one for all nationalities and then eventually Arabs builds their own and the reason that is out spoken …most of the time …crowdedness …but secretly they think Arab muslim are superior because they born in to the Arabic language the Language of Quran [even dew most Arabs do not understand some of the Old Arabic Language ] they think non Arab muslims are dirty, smelly and ignorant do to letting them selves be affected by their own culture and, on the anther hand Arabs own the prophet Muhammed culture . It is sad they think that way …right here in the US the city that I live in, Pakistanis and Arabs each have their own mosques,they meet for Aid and Ramadan separately ….Equality among all people is only for speeches in Islam
written by Reed Wilson. , December 22, 2010
William East. On your "My point is being missed" I elaborate further through Quran.
It is evident from the verse (longest verse I think) that this protocol is specific for contract of a debt for specified term. I give below the translation of the verse:
“O you who have believed, when you contract a debt for a specified term, write it down. And let a scribe write [it] between you in justice. Let no scribe refuse to write as Allah has taught him. So let him write and let the one who has the obligation dictate. And let him fear Allah, his Lord, and not leave anything out of it. But if the one who has the obligation is of limited understanding or weak or unable to dictate him, then let his guardian dictate in justice. And bring to witness two witnesses from among your men. If two men are not available, one man and two women from those whom you accept as witnesses; so that if one of the women errs, then the other can remind her. And let not the witnesses refuse when they are called upon. And do not be weary to write it, whether it is small or large, for its specified term. That is more just in the sight of Allah and stronger as evidence and more likely to prevent doubt between you, except when it is an immediate transaction which you conduct among yourselves. There is no blame upon you if you do not write it. And take witnesses when you conclude a contract. Let no scribe be harmed or any witness. For if you do so, indeed, it is disobedience. And fear Allah. Allah is teaching you. And Allah knows of all things”(2:282).
This does not mean two women are equal to one man in witnesses. Bearing a witness is always a burden. In all other matters the witness of women is not made any condition.
Four witnesses are required for the allegations of adultery and not for rape. You don’t need witnesses when you are involved in extramarital sex. The burden of proof is neither on man nor on women who were involved, of course, with consent. I don’t know, may beyou know that who should be a party to prove.
I will deal with rape, if you so desire, seperately.
It is evident from the verse (longest verse I think) that this protocol is specific for contract of a debt for specified term. I give below the translation of the verse:
“O you who have believed, when you contract a debt for a specified term, write it down. And let a scribe write [it] between you in justice. Let no scribe refuse to write as Allah has taught him. So let him write and let the one who has the obligation dictate. And let him fear Allah, his Lord, and not leave anything out of it. But if the one who has the obligation is of limited understanding or weak or unable to dictate him, then let his guardian dictate in justice. And bring to witness two witnesses from among your men. If two men are not available, one man and two women from those whom you accept as witnesses; so that if one of the women errs, then the other can remind her. And let not the witnesses refuse when they are called upon. And do not be weary to write it, whether it is small or large, for its specified term. That is more just in the sight of Allah and stronger as evidence and more likely to prevent doubt between you, except when it is an immediate transaction which you conduct among yourselves. There is no blame upon you if you do not write it. And take witnesses when you conclude a contract. Let no scribe be harmed or any witness. For if you do so, indeed, it is disobedience. And fear Allah. Allah is teaching you. And Allah knows of all things”(2:282).
This does not mean two women are equal to one man in witnesses. Bearing a witness is always a burden. In all other matters the witness of women is not made any condition.
Four witnesses are required for the allegations of adultery and not for rape. You don’t need witnesses when you are involved in extramarital sex. The burden of proof is neither on man nor on women who were involved, of course, with consent. I don’t know, may beyou know that who should be a party to prove.
I will deal with rape, if you so desire, seperately.
written by Reed Wilson. , December 22, 2010
Abu you write "Isn't that an irony, the majority of the muslims do not read Quran and they are the more peaceful people than the ulamas who read Quran?
As a conclusion, doesn't that mean that Quran advocates violence?
Yes it is unfortunate on their part. We must do our duty irrespectivee of the results.
You write "As a conclusion, doesn't that mean that Quran advocates violence?
No I do not mean that.
As a conclusion, doesn't that mean that Quran advocates violence?
Yes it is unfortunate on their part. We must do our duty irrespectivee of the results.
You write "As a conclusion, doesn't that mean that Quran advocates violence?
No I do not mean that.
written by fineliving56 , December 22, 2010
You are wrong …Reed…Quran DOES mean 2 women witness to 1 man witness ….and the proof is in black and white …when a woman needs to be reminded by another women and on the anther hand, a man does not need anther man to remind him …that tells me and all women out there how much God/Allha/Muhammed THINK of women's mind ability to be credible witnesses ….now do you understand …. and by the way …islamic low will not except 1 women to 1 man …take it from me... being a daughter of a muslim Lawyer .
I will write later about a study done few years ago about a man's versos women's abilities on the paying attention department.
I will write later about a study done few years ago about a man's versos women's abilities on the paying attention department.
written by Reed Wilson. , December 22, 2010
Machmoed. You write "The only religion is the religion of Allah, Islam".
How many religions should Allah have in your opinion?
How many religions should Allah have in your opinion?
written by Reed Wilson. , December 22, 2010
To Machmoed. Muhammad did not claim the authorship of Quran. He rather said that he was ust a messenger and slave/servant of Allah who revealed the book through him.
You write "In this verse the number of the earths is not in question. It assumes that everyone agrees that there are seven earths. The emphasis is on the claim that Allah is the creator of these seven earths.The reason is because just like the seven heavens, the ancient people had agreed that there were also seven layers of earth".
Heaven is not the translation of samawat it is skies. The sky or the skies are yet to be explored by science. There is no question of seven earths. The word earth is always referred as singular in Quran.
You write "In this verse the number of the earths is not in question. It assumes that everyone agrees that there are seven earths. The emphasis is on the claim that Allah is the creator of these seven earths.The reason is because just like the seven heavens, the ancient people had agreed that there were also seven layers of earth".
Heaven is not the translation of samawat it is skies. The sky or the skies are yet to be explored by science. There is no question of seven earths. The word earth is always referred as singular in Quran.
written by Reed Wilson. , December 22, 2010
To A-R khan. You write "See the speech of prophet in his last pilgrimage (khutbah hijja-ul-widagh). Ibne- ishaq/Tabary and
Ibn Hisham, al-Sira al-nabawiyya, page/ 4:251".
Ignore khutbah hijja-ul-widagh, Ibn Ishaq, Ibn Hisham and Tabari. When you will read you will yourself detect that it is all lies. Tabari, Hisham and Ishaq are not contemporary. Tabari quotes Ibn Hisham and ibn Hisham quotes Ibn Ishaq. You will find that there was no published work of Ibn Ishaq whom Tabari and Hisham are basing their information.
It is not very difficult to find the truth these days. It depends on your browsing. Just write Ibn Ishaq and Wikipeadia will tell you the whole story.
We all know that there is NO history available for 7th century.
You write all the authors Tabari, Ibn Ishaq and Ibn Hisham has written on vol.4:page251. May be they could do this also.
Ibn Hisham, al-Sira al-nabawiyya, page/ 4:251".
Ignore khutbah hijja-ul-widagh, Ibn Ishaq, Ibn Hisham and Tabari. When you will read you will yourself detect that it is all lies. Tabari, Hisham and Ishaq are not contemporary. Tabari quotes Ibn Hisham and ibn Hisham quotes Ibn Ishaq. You will find that there was no published work of Ibn Ishaq whom Tabari and Hisham are basing their information.
It is not very difficult to find the truth these days. It depends on your browsing. Just write Ibn Ishaq and Wikipeadia will tell you the whole story.
We all know that there is NO history available for 7th century.
You write all the authors Tabari, Ibn Ishaq and Ibn Hisham has written on vol.4:page251. May be they could do this also.
written by Demsci , December 22, 2010
Reading about how Muslims treat women because of Islam's most important guiding texts, it is my dream (and I am a man) that somehow real "feminists" start a real fight for women's rights.
First peacefully, by recommending nations and leaders good and denouncing those bad for women's rights.
And perhaps arranging underground railroads and refuge for all women oppressed by Muslim males, including in Islamic countries. At the same time advertising this well and offer new communities, new friendships, because the hardest part of leaving Islam may well be leaving family, community and loved ones.
it could even be organised, perhaps, that while the war in Afghanistan goes on, several women-armies get involved in NATO's armies. Finally broadcasting to "up to now ignorant-stupid" muslima's that they now can defect to their heroic, free female allies.
And this being a distinct possibility shall then force their menfolk to try to treat them better than until now, when (especially young attractive) women in Islamic countries and communities had nowhere to run. But now, let us give them some possible refuge and alternative.
First peacefully, by recommending nations and leaders good and denouncing those bad for women's rights.
And perhaps arranging underground railroads and refuge for all women oppressed by Muslim males, including in Islamic countries. At the same time advertising this well and offer new communities, new friendships, because the hardest part of leaving Islam may well be leaving family, community and loved ones.
it could even be organised, perhaps, that while the war in Afghanistan goes on, several women-armies get involved in NATO's armies. Finally broadcasting to "up to now ignorant-stupid" muslima's that they now can defect to their heroic, free female allies.
And this being a distinct possibility shall then force their menfolk to try to treat them better than until now, when (especially young attractive) women in Islamic countries and communities had nowhere to run. But now, let us give them some possible refuge and alternative.
written by lw1 , December 22, 2010
You wrote 'The Prophet is reported to have said: "Made beloved to me from your world are women and perfume, and the coolness of my eyes is in prayer" (Ahmad and An-Nasa'i).
Is this from Quran? You believe only in Quran and you disqualify as non-muslim anyone who relies on anything else.
If the above quote is not from Quran -- you are DISQUALIFYING yourself.
Is this from Quran? You believe only in Quran and you disqualify as non-muslim anyone who relies on anything else.
If the above quote is not from Quran -- you are DISQUALIFYING yourself.
written by Rationalist , December 22, 2010
Reed Wilson, why according to Quran (2.282) two female witnesses is equal to one male witness?
2.282....Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her.
Do you have an answer?
2.282....Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her.
Do you have an answer?
written by Abu Taleb , December 22, 2010
So far, I don't see Reed Wilson's reply on the charge of his contradicting himself.
Gee, I wonder why. :)
Gee, I wonder why. :)
written by William East , December 23, 2010
"So if one of the women errs....." Think about that statement.
By extension the passage indicates that women "err" and men do not. That's silly.
Nonsensical as ever, at least to me.
Clearly removing the burden of being a witness of a contract of obligation for a woman is best realized if two men were required to support or deny the word of a single woman, her word would be given higher value and require less proof. But then, its the other way around isn't it?
This is matter of a person's word and memory. In these matters a woman is surely the equal of a man. Women have equivalent recall and often have greater moral courage than men so its not a matter of defering a burden.
To me this passage seems to speak to the susceptability of a woman to being bullied physically and berated mentally and let's face it, muhammad was one big sneaky scheming bully.
My real problem with Islam is that it advocates and mandates the use of physical beatings, and mental incarceration, and justified murders for any who disagree with its claims and methods. That to me is not a message from God but rather the insane mutterings of a fool.
And if the message was divine in origin, and eternal, then why wasn't it preserved in its fullness from the beginning. The Koran as we know it is a corrected and amended version compiled during the reign of some "rightly guided" Caliphate almost 20 years after the death of muhammad. The original and separate fragments were ordered to be burned, and were burned after an abridged, amended and corrected version was brought into copy. That doesnt sound too eternal to me. Imagine that, the burning of the originals was performed by force by a rightly guided follower. And why was this done...because the memories and understandings of followers, and predominantly men, was imperfect.
written by Machmoed , December 23, 2010
Machmoed. You write "The only religion is the religion of Allah, Islam".
You also wrote: How many religions should Allah have in your opinion?
None, to my estimation. A way of life has always been subject of civilizations etc. Why should this have anything to do with the creator. Why must there be one way...for example islam.
You wrote: Heaven is not the translation of samawat it is skies. The sky or the skies are yet to be explored by science. There is no question of seven earths. The word earth is always referred as singular in Quran.
[65:12] GOD created seven universes and the same number of earths. The commands flow among them. This is to let you know that GOD is Omnipotent, and that GOD is fully aware of all things.
65:12 Allah it is who hath created seven heavens, and of the earth the like thereof. The commandment cometh down among them slowly, that ye may know that Allah is Able to do all things, and that Allah surroundeth all things in knowledge.
(65:12) "Allah it is who hath created seven heavens, and of the earth the like thereof."
The "seven heavens" refer to the sun, moon, and five planets that were known at the time of Muhammad (Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn). The earth was flat and the "seven "heavens" revolved around it.
Samawat is translated as heavens by all those who are experts in exegeses. Samawat is skies as heavens. The arabs thought Allah was somewhere above, but we all know there is no up or down in our universe. So to sent down a message like the qur'an is a false claim. In my native language janna means sky or heaven. Jannat means the heaven.
You also wrote: How many religions should Allah have in your opinion?
None, to my estimation. A way of life has always been subject of civilizations etc. Why should this have anything to do with the creator. Why must there be one way...for example islam.
You wrote: Heaven is not the translation of samawat it is skies. The sky or the skies are yet to be explored by science. There is no question of seven earths. The word earth is always referred as singular in Quran.
[65:12] GOD created seven universes and the same number of earths. The commands flow among them. This is to let you know that GOD is Omnipotent, and that GOD is fully aware of all things.
65:12 Allah it is who hath created seven heavens, and of the earth the like thereof. The commandment cometh down among them slowly, that ye may know that Allah is Able to do all things, and that Allah surroundeth all things in knowledge.
(65:12) "Allah it is who hath created seven heavens, and of the earth the like thereof."
The "seven heavens" refer to the sun, moon, and five planets that were known at the time of Muhammad (Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn). The earth was flat and the "seven "heavens" revolved around it.
Samawat is translated as heavens by all those who are experts in exegeses. Samawat is skies as heavens. The arabs thought Allah was somewhere above, but we all know there is no up or down in our universe. So to sent down a message like the qur'an is a false claim. In my native language janna means sky or heaven. Jannat means the heaven.
written by Reed Wilson. , December 23, 2010
To Abu Taleb. "Another reason why a man can not be beaten by his wife is that the man has purchased the woman by paying a dowry, so the man owns the whole body and the service of the woman. Therefore, a muslim can rape his wive without getting rebuked by his satanic god. It is a business contract, and the contract can be nullified by saying one word three times, "talak, talak, talak".
A woman can not be purchased against dowry.
Some women beat their husbands. There is no blanket permission for men to beat their wives.
The contract cannot be nullified by saying three times Talak.A procedure for nullifying marriage is same for both husband and wife which is outlined in Quran. You can find it sura baqara and surah talaq.
To IW1. Someone quoted a hadis. Commenting on that I presented another hadis which was contradicting the one presented. My intention was not to give any importance to hadis. I was rather proving that the hadis should not be relied. It was not self contradiction. It was hadis contradiction.
A woman can not be purchased against dowry.
Some women beat their husbands. There is no blanket permission for men to beat their wives.
The contract cannot be nullified by saying three times Talak.A procedure for nullifying marriage is same for both husband and wife which is outlined in Quran. You can find it sura baqara and surah talaq.
To IW1. Someone quoted a hadis. Commenting on that I presented another hadis which was contradicting the one presented. My intention was not to give any importance to hadis. I was rather proving that the hadis should not be relied. It was not self contradiction. It was hadis contradiction.
written by Reed Wilson. , December 23, 2010
Machmoed. You have given the translation of 65:12 as “Allah it is who hath created seven heavens, and of the earth the like thereof".
Please observe that heavens or skies is pleural in the and earth as singular. The better translation is "Allah is one who has created seven heavens, and similarly the earth like that".
Earth or َ الْأَرْض in Arabic has always appeared as singular. Since there are seven continents in earth people get confused in translating the verse.
Similarly is used for Khalaqa and not for heavens or samawaat.
Thank you anyway for pointing me out.
Please observe that heavens or skies is pleural in the and earth as singular. The better translation is "Allah is one who has created seven heavens, and similarly the earth like that".
Earth or َ الْأَرْض in Arabic has always appeared as singular. Since there are seven continents in earth people get confused in translating the verse.
Similarly is used for Khalaqa and not for heavens or samawaat.
Thank you anyway for pointing me out.
written by Machmoed , December 23, 2010
That doesn't matter Reed. If you ask the question after: ....has created seven heavens, and khalaqa (your chosen translation) the earth like that. Like what? Like seaven heavens. It is still the amount, what's important. He could have said as you believe the verse is ment: "Allah is one who has created seaven heavens and (also) the earth". But he didn't.
Look at the translations in almost all ranslated qur'an in English.
[65:12] GOD created seven universes and the same number of earths.
65:12 Allah it is who hath created seven heavens, and of the earth the like thereof.
Sahih International:
It is Allah who has created seven heavens and of the earth, the like of them.
You say you know arabic, so it should not be hard to understand: Allahu allathee khalaqa seb3a samawaatin wa mina alarthi mithlahunna.
My translation though arabic would be: It is Allah who created 7 heavens/skies/firmaments, and of the earth (as) their(s) example.
The creation is the same Reed. Are there more ways to create for Allah. No, if he wants something he just say koon, fayakoon. Come (be) willingly or unwillingly and they said we come (to be) willingly on behalf of His order. So it could not be about the example of creation like you claimed, it's not logical. It's about the example of seven heavens. Actually he sais: I/we have created 7 heavens and we did the same to earth. It's significant that qur'an mentiones seb3a (seven). Manytimes qur'an sais just he crated the heavens and erath etc. But not in this verse.
Look at the translations in almost all ranslated qur'an in English.
[65:12] GOD created seven universes and the same number of earths.
65:12 Allah it is who hath created seven heavens, and of the earth the like thereof.
Sahih International:
It is Allah who has created seven heavens and of the earth, the like of them.
You say you know arabic, so it should not be hard to understand: Allahu allathee khalaqa seb3a samawaatin wa mina alarthi mithlahunna.
My translation though arabic would be: It is Allah who created 7 heavens/skies/firmaments, and of the earth (as) their(s) example.
The creation is the same Reed. Are there more ways to create for Allah. No, if he wants something he just say koon, fayakoon. Come (be) willingly or unwillingly and they said we come (to be) willingly on behalf of His order. So it could not be about the example of creation like you claimed, it's not logical. It's about the example of seven heavens. Actually he sais: I/we have created 7 heavens and we did the same to earth. It's significant that qur'an mentiones seb3a (seven). Manytimes qur'an sais just he crated the heavens and erath etc. But not in this verse.
written by Machmoed , December 23, 2010
One more thing. In the time of Muhammad they thought the earth is like an union with 7 layers like 7 heavens. Each heaven is a level (Mi'raj story) the higher the better (alfirdaus is believed to be the highest paradise). So your problem is solved about the amount of earths in terms of globes as we know it today. One earths with 7 layers, the lower the layer the bad (they didn't know earth was a globe).
written by abdullah jameel rowaishid , December 23, 2010
hey guys does any one have PSN identity
written by lw1 , December 23, 2010
You write -- 'Someone quoted a hadis ........'.The problem with that is that 'this someone' believes in hadis. You do not believe in hadis (you disqualify as Muslim anyone who believes in hadis), so you cannot rely on something you believe to be unreliable.
A Muslim who doesn't eat pork for religious reasons can't say 'I am so hungry and as only pork is available, I will eat it.
A Muslim who doesn't eat pork for religious reasons can't say 'I am so hungry and as only pork is available, I will eat it.
written by Machmoed , December 23, 2010
I don't know what PSN is, but you should go to the doctor abdullah. It sounds serious. If it has something with your identity, don't worry...all boys in puberty have issues with their identity, more or less. If you are much older and muslim and educated, then it is not that surprising that you suffer from an identity crisis, if that's what PSN means. In the latter case and all other cases, you have to pay a visit to a shrink.
You have the same name as the assumed father of Muhammad Abdullah. You know, the one who died as a mushrik according to your faith. Apparently he worshipped a false god. He was the servant of Allah and therefor he died as yahil, mushrik etc etc.
Are you blind?
have nice moments.
Abdulhaqqi wannoori almahmoudi-'lchaleed.
You have the same name as the assumed father of Muhammad Abdullah. You know, the one who died as a mushrik according to your faith. Apparently he worshipped a false god. He was the servant of Allah and therefor he died as yahil, mushrik etc etc.
Are you blind?
have nice moments.
Abdulhaqqi wannoori almahmoudi-'lchaleed.
written by Abu Taleb , December 23, 2010
2:223
Pickthall
Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad).
Reed, you can go to your women as you will and your Allah doesn't say that she can reject you at all. Why? Because she is already halal for you as you have paid the dowry. Isn't that the same as you have purchased her body using the dowry?
4:34
Pickthall
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
Quran 4:34 allows men to beat their women, not the other way around. So if some women beat their husbands, those women are certainly doing sins. But if men beat their women because they fear the women's becoming rebelious, Allah will reward the men for following Allah's order. Lo and behold, your Allah is exalted when you beat your rebelious women, and you should beat your women every time you have a tiny suspicous of her rebelious.
Pickthall
Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad).
Reed, you can go to your women as you will and your Allah doesn't say that she can reject you at all. Why? Because she is already halal for you as you have paid the dowry. Isn't that the same as you have purchased her body using the dowry?
4:34
Pickthall
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
Quran 4:34 allows men to beat their women, not the other way around. So if some women beat their husbands, those women are certainly doing sins. But if men beat their women because they fear the women's becoming rebelious, Allah will reward the men for following Allah's order. Lo and behold, your Allah is exalted when you beat your rebelious women, and you should beat your women every time you have a tiny suspicous of her rebelious.
written by Reed Wilson. , December 25, 2010
To Rationalist. I am giving here two verses from Quran,out of many for equality of women:
“Verily the Muslim men and Muslim women, and the believing men and the believing women, and the devout men and the devout women, and the men of veracity and the women of veracity, and the persevering men and the persevering women, and the men of humility and the women of humility and the almsgiving men and the almsgiving women, and the fasting men and the fasting women, and the men who guard their modesty and the women who guard their modesty, and the Allah-remembering men and the Allah remembering women: Allah hath gotten ready for them forgiveness and mighty reward”. (33:35)
“O Humankind verily We! We have created you Of a male and female, and We have made you nations and tribes that ye might know one another. Verily the noblest of you with Allah is the most God-fearing of you; verily Allah is Knowing, Aware”. (49:13)
Now there are so many types of evidences including close circuit cameras DNA test etc and male/female witnesses are not required.
“Verily the Muslim men and Muslim women, and the believing men and the believing women, and the devout men and the devout women, and the men of veracity and the women of veracity, and the persevering men and the persevering women, and the men of humility and the women of humility and the almsgiving men and the almsgiving women, and the fasting men and the fasting women, and the men who guard their modesty and the women who guard their modesty, and the Allah-remembering men and the Allah remembering women: Allah hath gotten ready for them forgiveness and mighty reward”. (33:35)
“O Humankind verily We! We have created you Of a male and female, and We have made you nations and tribes that ye might know one another. Verily the noblest of you with Allah is the most God-fearing of you; verily Allah is Knowing, Aware”. (49:13)
Now there are so many types of evidences including close circuit cameras DNA test etc and male/female witnesses are not required.
written by Machmoed , December 26, 2010
Qur'an sais: Verily the noblest of you with Allah is the most God-fearing of you.
Is it?
It should be about responsibility rather than fear. The most God loving are the noblest, not those who do something out of fear. Fear comes out of uncertainty while believe in God/Allah should be confident. You might should fear Iblies/satan for the possibility of misguiding you. But then again, this can be attributed to Allah also. You get stock because both have authoroty to misguide you and will use this power if Allah is willing.
Is it?
It should be about responsibility rather than fear. The most God loving are the noblest, not those who do something out of fear. Fear comes out of uncertainty while believe in God/Allah should be confident. You might should fear Iblies/satan for the possibility of misguiding you. But then again, this can be attributed to Allah also. You get stock because both have authoroty to misguide you and will use this power if Allah is willing.
written by Rationalist , December 26, 2010
Reed, I am not asking about the times where we have cctv footage, DNA tests. All I wish to know is about your Prophet Muhammad's absurd claim during 7th century: 1 male witness = 2 female witnesses. Instead of answering this question pertaining to 7th century Arabia, why the hell are you bringing in other verses? Are you ashamed of giving an explanation?
tell me Reed why did your prophet say 1 male witness is equivalent to 2 female witnesses?
tell me Reed why did your prophet say 1 male witness is equivalent to 2 female witnesses?
written by Reed Wilson. , December 26, 2010
You write "1 male witness = 2 female witnesses".
It is nowhere in Quran. You owe me the proof of Genetics about marry cousins will lead to deformity.
It is nowhere in Quran. You owe me the proof of Genetics about marry cousins will lead to deformity.
written by duh_swami , December 26, 2010
'You owe me the proof of Genetics about marry cousins will lead to deformity'.
He owes you nothing...There is no proof that fits your agenda, so there is no proof...How much proof do you need?
How many times are you going to insult the Prophet Mohammad? You reject his history and everything he said and did, by rejecting hadith and Islamic historians like Ishaq and Tabari...If Mohammad was the messenger, and the Quran came through him, then he can't be separated from it...Reliable or not, hadith are the records of Mohammad...It is better to accept hadith and use your own judgment as to which have value and which do not...There are hadith that address head lice, and what Mohammad did and said to do to get rid of them...For people who don't have access to chemicals, Mohammads methods worked, and are still used today...Why would anyone fake that story?
There's a lot of hadith that have value like that...Even treasure hunters could use hadith to locate valuables...If you could locate the exact site of the battle of Badr, for instance, or any battle, and could sneak in there with a metal detector, what interesting and valuable things you might find...So hadith have value, and it's a mistake, if you are a Muslim or a treasure hunter, to throw them out...
He owes you nothing...There is no proof that fits your agenda, so there is no proof...How much proof do you need?
How many times are you going to insult the Prophet Mohammad? You reject his history and everything he said and did, by rejecting hadith and Islamic historians like Ishaq and Tabari...If Mohammad was the messenger, and the Quran came through him, then he can't be separated from it...Reliable or not, hadith are the records of Mohammad...It is better to accept hadith and use your own judgment as to which have value and which do not...There are hadith that address head lice, and what Mohammad did and said to do to get rid of them...For people who don't have access to chemicals, Mohammads methods worked, and are still used today...Why would anyone fake that story?
There's a lot of hadith that have value like that...Even treasure hunters could use hadith to locate valuables...If you could locate the exact site of the battle of Badr, for instance, or any battle, and could sneak in there with a metal detector, what interesting and valuable things you might find...So hadith have value, and it's a mistake, if you are a Muslim or a treasure hunter, to throw them out...
written by lw1 , December 26, 2010
2.282 . O ye who believe! When ye contract a debt for a fixed term, record it in writing between you (in terms of) equity. No scribe should refuse to write as Allah hath taught him, so let him write, and let him who incurreth the debt dictate, and let him observe his duty to Allah his Lord, and diminish naught thereof. But if he who oweth the debt is of low understanding, or weak, or unable himself to dictate, then let the guardian of his interests dictate in (terms of) equity. AND CALL TWO WITNESS FROM AMONG YOUR MEN, TWO WITNESSES. AND IF MEN BE NOT AT HAND, THEN A MAN AND TWO WOMEN, of such as ye approve as witnesses, SO THAT IF ONE ERRETH (THROUGH FORGETFULNESS) THE OTHER WILL REMEMBER. And the witnesses must not refuse when they are summoned .........
Allah believes man canot err.
Allah believes man canot err.
written by Abu Taleb , December 26, 2010
Qur'an sais: Verily the noblest of you with Allah is the most God-fearing of you.
Quran can say that, but the treatment the noblest receives will be different for men and women. In the Islamic paradise, a man have 72 virgins and probably 100 pretty boys, while a woman is only one of the 72 virgins waiting for her turn.
And a god fearing woman will accept the beating gladly from her man who is also a god fearing person. Such a noble concept of Islam.
Quran can say that, but the treatment the noblest receives will be different for men and women. In the Islamic paradise, a man have 72 virgins and probably 100 pretty boys, while a woman is only one of the 72 virgins waiting for her turn.
And a god fearing woman will accept the beating gladly from her man who is also a god fearing person. Such a noble concept of Islam.
written by Rationalist , December 26, 2010
Mr. Wilson, I've provided you enough proof on congeniality. I guess you are a dumb jackass like your illiterate prophet. Start reading the basics of genetics until you feel a nail is hammered down your skull. I thought not all muslims are dumb. you proved me wrong, Reed.
You write "1 male witness = 2 female witnesses". It is nowhere in Quran.
======
Have you read Quran? Are you on a dope? Read 2.282 below and tell me what your prophet meant there.
2.282....Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her.
You lost it Reed! you are a sore loser now
You write "1 male witness = 2 female witnesses". It is nowhere in Quran.
======
Have you read Quran? Are you on a dope? Read 2.282 below and tell me what your prophet meant there.
2.282....Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her.
You lost it Reed! you are a sore loser now
written by Reed Wilson. , December 27, 2010
On December 05, he wrote "Genetics has proved that marriage with close relatives causes genetic disorders".
Mr. Rationalist was requested to give proof. He may present one scientific article establishing his claim.
Now he says "Mr. Wilson, I've provided you enough proof on congeniality". What enough proof? We are not discussing congeniality or Miss Congeniality.
He writes that the spouses should not have common ancestors. When meanings of ancestors were pointed him out he did not agree with the dictionary meanings.
Now he is more interested in two women are equal to one man.
I appreciate his making you as an arbiter.
Mr. Rationalist was requested to give proof. He may present one scientific article establishing his claim.
Now he says "Mr. Wilson, I've provided you enough proof on congeniality". What enough proof? We are not discussing congeniality or Miss Congeniality.
He writes that the spouses should not have common ancestors. When meanings of ancestors were pointed him out he did not agree with the dictionary meanings.
Now he is more interested in two women are equal to one man.
I appreciate his making you as an arbiter.
written by duh_swami , December 27, 2010
I appreciate his making you as an arbiter.
I don't think he did that...
There is no proof you will accept...Genetic problems are at random...Not all close family sex or marriages produce them, but it happens often enough that many governments have made laws prohibiting it...Your arguments make no sense when reality enters the picture. You are entitled to maintain your delusions, but you should not be surprised when others challenge them...
I don't think he did that...
There is no proof you will accept...Genetic problems are at random...Not all close family sex or marriages produce them, but it happens often enough that many governments have made laws prohibiting it...Your arguments make no sense when reality enters the picture. You are entitled to maintain your delusions, but you should not be surprised when others challenge them...
written by lw1 , December 27, 2010
You wrote on 26/12/2010 to Rationalist -- 'You write 1 male witness=2 female witnesses.' IT IS NOWHERE IN QURAN.
It is in Quran, so why are you disputing a fact. 2.282 ......And call two witness from among your MEN, two witness. And if MEN be not at hand, then a MAN and TWO WOMEN, of such as ye approve as witnesses, so if one erreth ( through forgetfulness) the other will remember. And the witnesses must not refuse when they are summoned .........
Why are you misrepresenting FACT?
It is in Quran, so why are you disputing a fact. 2.282 ......And call two witness from among your MEN, two witness. And if MEN be not at hand, then a MAN and TWO WOMEN, of such as ye approve as witnesses, so if one erreth ( through forgetfulness) the other will remember. And the witnesses must not refuse when they are summoned .........
Why are you misrepresenting FACT?
written by Rationalist , December 27, 2010
Mr.Wilson, I told you I've provided enough evidence on congenial disorders. Don't just stick to your own opinions/conclusions alone. let someone- other than you- from the pool of readers inform me about my giving less proof on genetics. I will then come up with more proof. However, if you gonna stick your head in sand like an ostrich and cry foul it is not gonna help the cause.
You said 1 male witness = 2 female witness does not exist in Quran. I provided the proof. Was Muhemmed on opium when he said 2.282? Is there any logic behind that surrah? Mr wilson, you gotta answer. Muhemmed and Allah's reputation is at risk.
You said 1 male witness = 2 female witness does not exist in Quran. I provided the proof. Was Muhemmed on opium when he said 2.282? Is there any logic behind that surrah? Mr wilson, you gotta answer. Muhemmed and Allah's reputation is at risk.
written by Rationalist , December 28, 2010
Mr. Wilson, we all believe that Allah has done injustice by saying 2 female witnesses is equal to 1 male witness in Quran. Do you have any solid justification for this? You can continue to put up ur show or just shut up. Let's see how you respond.
written by fineliving56 , December 28, 2010
It has been clear that Mr. Wilson will disappear from the site when defending the weak, revealing , disappointing , lacking and wrong in so many ways IN QURAN ...word escapes him which it seems once in a blue moon …..he does not like to defend verses 2:282 and 4:34 and others like them and he ignore it and turn around and brings up other parts of Quran who he think gives rights to women like …33:34 and 49:13 …and he says ….look ...Allha loves and protect women ….he does not see that any good God or Allah will NOT AND I STREES …WILL NOT BE SOOOO CRUEL TO ANYTHING LET ALONE WOMEN …to order men to hit,make to obey ,take there rightful inheritance , use there bodies as toilettes [it pains me to write that but that what has happened for centuries and still does ] even order the courts to only except 1 men testimony to match a 2 women's …sell ….buy .etr...BUT ON THE OTHER HAND ALLAH is SOOOO JENTLE HE MENTION MEN AND WOMEN IN THE SAME SENTENCE …WAWE….that all WE GET …Allha /God /Mouhamed... must be joking …..where is the equality ….where is the equality where it COUNTS …a good Allah or God will not be the Ultimate cruelest =the ultimate giver ….!!!!!….just like a good parent will not try to kill ,burn,skin,behead,a child and capable of kiss,huge,teach ,nurture a child …UNLESS HE OR SHE IS SADISTIC AND SICK MINDED AND NEED TO BE BIHIND LOCKED DOORES AWAY FROM CHILDREN …a good parent does not have it in him or her …just like a good Allah or God does not have it in it ….I will not except or believe in a God WHO IS CRULE LIKE THAT …..women are not born as place for a man to urinate in …..Mr Willson …like Quran says in a very subtle way .
written by Rationalist , December 29, 2010
Very well said fineliving56. Obviously, you have experienced Islam and hence you are speaking through your heart.
written by ali , December 29, 2010
The Bible explains how after Jesus will be another Prophet. Just like after Abraham came Jesus. The only prophet after Jesus was Muhammad. It's a good book. You should read it.
There are zero historical references anywhere in history unless fabricated which show the Prophet Muhammad ever beating any woman.
Muslims live in the example of the Prophet Muhammad.
There are zero historical references anywhere in history unless fabricated which show the Prophet Muhammad ever beating any woman.
Muslims live in the example of the Prophet Muhammad.
written by NuruH , December 29, 2010
"Muslims live in the example of the Prophet Muhammad."
Muhammad belongs in the past.....he is dead and he should remain dead. The problem with the Muslims as I see it is that they are stuck in the past and not able to see and living in the present.
Muhammad belongs in the past.....he is dead and he should remain dead. The problem with the Muslims as I see it is that they are stuck in the past and not able to see and living in the present.
written by lw1 , December 29, 2010
Yes, Muslims live in the example of Muhammad. They mistreat,discriminate against, and kill non-muslims, because of the repeated message of hate against non-believers in Quran.You want equal rights when living in Christian and Hindu and Jewish countries, but do not want to give the non-believers equal rights.
With the hatred you have learnt and is ingrained in your brain, you kill Muslims and mostly they want asylum in non-muslim countries.
With the hatred you have learnt and is ingrained in your brain, you kill Muslims and mostly they want asylum in non-muslim countries.
written by Demsci , December 29, 2010
Ali, it is shown here and elsewhere that Muhammad ordered many unjustified killings and that he raped Safiyah and Mariyah, the Copt, and let men under his command rape captured women, regardless whether the rapists and the raped women were married.
What the Imams told you about a good Mohammed was only cherrypicked from the Hadith which speak favoritely about him. Ignoring the many stories about him doing and ordering or condoning violence, rape, cursing infidels. But a rational person knows that truth does not depend on whether or not we like a story. And your imams probably told you many stories about some good-natured wise prophet Mohammad that were fabricated.
Like the story that is told about Mohammed: "There was a woman cursing Mohammed every time he walked past her house. One day there were no curses and the good Mohammed then was concerned about this woman's well-being."
Well, that was a story about Baha'ullah. But some Muslims stole the story and told their fellow-Muslims that it was about Mohammed. But it is nowhere in the Hadith.
What the Imams told you about a good Mohammed was only cherrypicked from the Hadith which speak favoritely about him. Ignoring the many stories about him doing and ordering or condoning violence, rape, cursing infidels. But a rational person knows that truth does not depend on whether or not we like a story. And your imams probably told you many stories about some good-natured wise prophet Mohammad that were fabricated.
Like the story that is told about Mohammed: "There was a woman cursing Mohammed every time he walked past her house. One day there were no curses and the good Mohammed then was concerned about this woman's well-being."
Well, that was a story about Baha'ullah. But some Muslims stole the story and told their fellow-Muslims that it was about Mohammed. But it is nowhere in the Hadith.
written by fineliving56 , December 30, 2010
Thank you …I always speak from the heart and that get me in trouble some times …speaking out is the idea here hoping to open up this infected wound called Islam in the body of humanity.
written by Reed Wilson. , December 30, 2010
To Ali. You write "Muslims live in the example of the Prophet Muhammad".
Why Muhammad only? They are supposed to follow the examples of all the messengers of God who were following god. Only god is worthy of following.
Please read Quran 10:35.
Why Muhammad only? They are supposed to follow the examples of all the messengers of God who were following god. Only god is worthy of following.
Please read Quran 10:35.
written by Rationalist , December 30, 2010
Reed, why are you shying away from answering to my question on female and male witnesses (Quran 2.282)? It seems finally you have been shown a mistake in Quran and you tend to accept it. Looking forward to your quick reply.
Happy new year!
Happy new year!
written by Reed Wilson. , January 01, 2011
Ratioanlist. "It seems finally you have been shown a mistake in Quran and you tend to accept it. Looking forward to your quick reply". Happy new year!
Thanks for the Happy new year! I also sincerely wish you and everybody happy years to come.
Mistake in Quran. Actually I was waiting for the genetic proof from you before taking up this. I will tell you what I understand. If you dont give me a proof another one week, I will stop waiting.
Thanks for the Happy new year! I also sincerely wish you and everybody happy years to come.
Mistake in Quran. Actually I was waiting for the genetic proof from you before taking up this. I will tell you what I understand. If you dont give me a proof another one week, I will stop waiting.
written by Machmoed , January 01, 2011
Only god is worthy of following.
Yes Reed but you don't know what he said. You heard from others what he said (the Qur'an). The qur'an also sais: wattaqu allaha warrasoul wallathee amra bikum. Obey Allah and the messenger and those who have authority etc.
You believe in a story of others. The whole crapstories about jinns and hell etc. are so childish and simply lies. How can someone attribute these lies to Allah/God?
Yes Reed but you don't know what he said. You heard from others what he said (the Qur'an). The qur'an also sais: wattaqu allaha warrasoul wallathee amra bikum. Obey Allah and the messenger and those who have authority etc.
You believe in a story of others. The whole crapstories about jinns and hell etc. are so childish and simply lies. How can someone attribute these lies to Allah/God?
written by Rationalist , January 01, 2011
Reed, did you read my previous posts on your question on genetic proof? I had promised to you that if other readers asked for more proof I would search for more. It is just not between you and I. Somebody has to judge as well. I repeat, if someone asks me to provide more proof (ie side with you) then I can look for more info. Since nobody has asked for it, you should understand that there is something horribly wrong with your knowledge base. So I won't give more proof. If you wish we can close discussion on genetics.
However, I need your explanation on why 2 women witnesses = 1 male witness. Mind you these two topics (genetics & witness) are two different topics, aren't they? So instead of dilly-dallying give me an answer.
However, I need your explanation on why 2 women witnesses = 1 male witness. Mind you these two topics (genetics & witness) are two different topics, aren't they? So instead of dilly-dallying give me an answer.
written by Reed Wilson. , January 02, 2011
Machmoed.Thanks and best wishes for yr.2011 and for the years to come.
You write "Only god is worthy of following.
Yes Reed but you don't know what he said. You heard from others what he said (the Qur'an). The qur'an also sais: wattaqu allaha warrasoul wallathee amra bikum. Obey Allah and the messenger and those who have authority etc".
I cannot identify your question Machmoed. You are perhaps referring to part of verse 4:59 i.e. أَطِيعُوا اللَّـهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنكُمْ ۖ In this verse Arabic word أَطِيعُوا is used which means ‘obey’ in English. The so called muslims also confuse أَطِيعُوا with اتَّبَع which means ‘follow’ in English.
You may know that Quran says: قُلْ هَلْ مِن شُرَكَائِكُم مَّن يَهْدِي إِلَى الْحَقِّ ۚ قُلِ اللَّـهُ يَهْدِي لِلْحَقِّ ۗ أَفَمَن يَهْدِي إِلَى الْحَقِّ أَحَقُّ أَن يُتَّبَعَ أَمَّن لَّا يَهِدِّي إِلَّا أَن يُهْدَىٰ ۖ فَمَا لَكُمْ كَيْفَ تَحْكُمُونَ
Say, "Are there of your 'partners' any who guides to the truth?" Say, "Allah guides to the truth. So is He who guides to the truth more worthy to be followed or he who guides not unless he is guided? (10:35)
We know that the messengers are guided by God who only is to be followed. The Messengers were obeyed during their life time. Since the messengers were following God, following them shall amount to following God.
It is obvious that Muhammad was, and is, not a role model in all matters.
I wish if I could explain. There is nothing from me in it.
You write "Only god is worthy of following.
Yes Reed but you don't know what he said. You heard from others what he said (the Qur'an). The qur'an also sais: wattaqu allaha warrasoul wallathee amra bikum. Obey Allah and the messenger and those who have authority etc".
I cannot identify your question Machmoed. You are perhaps referring to part of verse 4:59 i.e. أَطِيعُوا اللَّـهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنكُمْ ۖ In this verse Arabic word أَطِيعُوا is used which means ‘obey’ in English. The so called muslims also confuse أَطِيعُوا with اتَّبَع which means ‘follow’ in English.
You may know that Quran says: قُلْ هَلْ مِن شُرَكَائِكُم مَّن يَهْدِي إِلَى الْحَقِّ ۚ قُلِ اللَّـهُ يَهْدِي لِلْحَقِّ ۗ أَفَمَن يَهْدِي إِلَى الْحَقِّ أَحَقُّ أَن يُتَّبَعَ أَمَّن لَّا يَهِدِّي إِلَّا أَن يُهْدَىٰ ۖ فَمَا لَكُمْ كَيْفَ تَحْكُمُونَ
Say, "Are there of your 'partners' any who guides to the truth?" Say, "Allah guides to the truth. So is He who guides to the truth more worthy to be followed or he who guides not unless he is guided? (10:35)
We know that the messengers are guided by God who only is to be followed. The Messengers were obeyed during their life time. Since the messengers were following God, following them shall amount to following God.
It is obvious that Muhammad was, and is, not a role model in all matters.
I wish if I could explain. There is nothing from me in it.
written by Reed Wilson. , January 02, 2011
Rationalist. You claimed that ‘Genetics has proved that marrying cousins causes genetic disorders”. I asked for that proof. You advanced so many things but not the proof.
Now you are saying “if other readers asked for more proof I would search for more”. Fine! This means no proof is forthcoming. Now we ‘close discussion on genetics’.
Now I come to “why 2 women witnesses = 1 male witness” “which is not genetics”.
•Both of us know that Quran doesn’t say that “2 women witnesses = 1 male witness”.
•We also know that primarily there may be two male witnesses and if two males not available then only two females is an option.
•We know that this evidence is specific for loans for appointed time.
•We know that there would be only one female witness and the other is there in case one forgets.
Despite the above, I wanted to find such a reply which may appeal to the logic of non believer. I have to seek the reply from Quran. I have to see where else, in Quran, witnesses were required and if there is any such discrimination. Quran says don’t hide a witness even if it goes against you. This witness can be a solo male or female.
I think (I think) God is telling here that males have better memory. It is yet to be proved. A believer believes it as he believes in skies without even seeing one sky.
If I am unable to answer ‘why in Quran’, it does not establish a mistake in Quran. God is creator of us and he knows our limitations.
Rationalist I did not dilly dallied. I needed time and I declared that.
Now you are saying “if other readers asked for more proof I would search for more”. Fine! This means no proof is forthcoming. Now we ‘close discussion on genetics’.
Now I come to “why 2 women witnesses = 1 male witness” “which is not genetics”.
•Both of us know that Quran doesn’t say that “2 women witnesses = 1 male witness”.
•We also know that primarily there may be two male witnesses and if two males not available then only two females is an option.
•We know that this evidence is specific for loans for appointed time.
•We know that there would be only one female witness and the other is there in case one forgets.
Despite the above, I wanted to find such a reply which may appeal to the logic of non believer. I have to seek the reply from Quran. I have to see where else, in Quran, witnesses were required and if there is any such discrimination. Quran says don’t hide a witness even if it goes against you. This witness can be a solo male or female.
I think (I think) God is telling here that males have better memory. It is yet to be proved. A believer believes it as he believes in skies without even seeing one sky.
If I am unable to answer ‘why in Quran’, it does not establish a mistake in Quran. God is creator of us and he knows our limitations.
Rationalist I did not dilly dallied. I needed time and I declared that.
written by Reed Wilson. , January 02, 2011
To Rationalist. You wished me happy New Year. I wished you happy New Year. Each year we wish each other happy New Year. For the last seventy-five years I am wished happy New Year. People sincerely wish happy New Year to people. Yet the New Year was never happy for the humanity.
There is no doubt in the sincerity of people in wishing happiness to each other. That means people love each other, are sympathetic to each other and are friendly with each other. We have to identify the factors responsible for the ill feelings and disruption.
There seems many media, brokers and agencies which come in between people to people. They may be politicians, clergies, press etc which come in between the innate friendship and harmony among the people. What is your opinion?
There is no doubt in the sincerity of people in wishing happiness to each other. That means people love each other, are sympathetic to each other and are friendly with each other. We have to identify the factors responsible for the ill feelings and disruption.
There seems many media, brokers and agencies which come in between people to people. They may be politicians, clergies, press etc which come in between the innate friendship and harmony among the people. What is your opinion?
written by fineliving56 , January 02, 2011
I am officially asking for the proof marring cousins cause genetic disorder …please just to satisfy Reed. thank you
written by lw1 , January 03, 2011
2.282 ........And call two witnesses from among your MEN, two witnesses. And if TWO MEN BE NOT AT HAND, THEN A MAN AND TWO WOMEN OF SUCH AS YE APPROVE .........
Quran does say it.
Quran does say it.
written by lw1 , January 03, 2011
From Wikipaedia. In the article, there is a sub-heading -- Biological Aspects --- 'Genetics'
A BBC report discussed Pakistanis in Britain, 55% of whom marry a first cousin. Given the high rate of such mariages, many more children come from repeated generations of first-cousin marriages. The report states that these children are 13 times more LIKELY than the genral population to produce children of first-cousin marriages in Birmingham either dies in infancy or develops a serious disability ......
It is LIKELY, so you act accordingly. Washing your hands and putting the gel on your hands before entering wards is LIKELY to stop infections spreading, how can you prove such a thing?
There is no proof that there is Allah(Islamic God) and also there is no proof that Quran is divinely inspired. Somebody should provide proof about Allah and Quran. Nobody has done that.
A BBC report discussed Pakistanis in Britain, 55% of whom marry a first cousin. Given the high rate of such mariages, many more children come from repeated generations of first-cousin marriages. The report states that these children are 13 times more LIKELY than the genral population to produce children of first-cousin marriages in Birmingham either dies in infancy or develops a serious disability ......
It is LIKELY, so you act accordingly. Washing your hands and putting the gel on your hands before entering wards is LIKELY to stop infections spreading, how can you prove such a thing?
There is no proof that there is Allah(Islamic God) and also there is no proof that Quran is divinely inspired. Somebody should provide proof about Allah and Quran. Nobody has done that.
written by Rationalist , January 03, 2011
Reed, I said I've already provided enough evidence on genetics. Now, from what I've provided you should come up with something to refute the claims in those articles. You've not done that. Until you did that I cannot furnish more proof. What do you know about genetics? I've done 4 courses in genetics during my undergrad studies. In order to appreciate the facts given in my previous links you must know basics of genetics. See the comments lw1. Let's switch over to 2.282
•Both of us know that Quran doesn’t say that “2 women witnesses = 1 male witness”.
------
It does say? Are you blind?
•We also know that primarily there may be two male witnesses and if two males not available then only two females is an option.
-------
Quran 2.282 says "Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. Read through the line, Reed!
•We know that this evidence is specific for loans for appointed time.
------------
By your logic Quran should be an outdated book! None of it applies in our time....
•We know that there would be only one female witness and the other is there in case one forgets.
-----------------
You've a skewed logic. Quran says bring in two male witnesses. If you can't find 2 male witnesses, then a male witness and "two" female witnesses. Why didn't Quran say one male witness and another female just to remind him if he forgets?
Despite the above, I wanted to find such a reply which may appeal to the logic of non believer. I have to seek the reply from Quran. I have to see where else, in Quran, witnesses were required and if there is any such discrimination.
-----------
You know very well that Quran has discriminated against women! You can't seek reply from Quran for it is a B.S book.
Quran says don’t hide a witness even if it goes against you. This witness can be a solo male or female.
------------
More mambo-jumbo
I think (I think) God is telling here that males have better memory. It is yet to be proved. A believer believes it as he believes in skies without even seeing one sky.
----------------
Thanks for agreeing what Allah says in Quran. That's what people wanted to know.
If I am unable to answer ‘why in Quran’, it does not establish a mistake in Quran. God is creator of us and he knows our limitations.Rationalist I did not dilly dallied. I needed time and I declared that.
------------
You have accepted that according to your Allah men have better memory than women. I don't believe in your Allah. You can teach other stuff to dim-witted muslims. I am a Rationalist, thanks a ton!
•Both of us know that Quran doesn’t say that “2 women witnesses = 1 male witness”.
------
It does say? Are you blind?
•We also know that primarily there may be two male witnesses and if two males not available then only two females is an option.
-------
Quran 2.282 says "Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. Read through the line, Reed!
•We know that this evidence is specific for loans for appointed time.
------------
By your logic Quran should be an outdated book! None of it applies in our time....
•We know that there would be only one female witness and the other is there in case one forgets.
-----------------
You've a skewed logic. Quran says bring in two male witnesses. If you can't find 2 male witnesses, then a male witness and "two" female witnesses. Why didn't Quran say one male witness and another female just to remind him if he forgets?
Despite the above, I wanted to find such a reply which may appeal to the logic of non believer. I have to seek the reply from Quran. I have to see where else, in Quran, witnesses were required and if there is any such discrimination.
-----------
You know very well that Quran has discriminated against women! You can't seek reply from Quran for it is a B.S book.
Quran says don’t hide a witness even if it goes against you. This witness can be a solo male or female.
------------
More mambo-jumbo
I think (I think) God is telling here that males have better memory. It is yet to be proved. A believer believes it as he believes in skies without even seeing one sky.
----------------
Thanks for agreeing what Allah says in Quran. That's what people wanted to know.
If I am unable to answer ‘why in Quran’, it does not establish a mistake in Quran. God is creator of us and he knows our limitations.Rationalist I did not dilly dallied. I needed time and I declared that.
------------
You have accepted that according to your Allah men have better memory than women. I don't believe in your Allah. You can teach other stuff to dim-witted muslims. I am a Rationalist, thanks a ton!
written by Rationalist , January 03, 2011
Reed, your statement "I think (I think) God is telling here that males have better memory. It is yet to be proved." proves it all. You cannot claim yourself to be a not-out batsman.
written by Machmoed , January 04, 2011
Scientific experiments in Great Brittain showed that women are more intelligent than men in quite many things. So the claim that women are inferior than men in intelligence etc. is false, like the many claims of islam.
written by Reed Wilson. , January 05, 2011
Machmoed. You write "Scientific experiments in Great Brittain showed that women are more intelligent than men in quite many things".
You are right. Regarding memory also they are proved inferior. Rather superior in some matter.
"So the claim that women are inferior than men in intelligence etc. is false, like the many claims of islam".
It was not my claim. It was my doubt that which is not proved so far.
You are right. Regarding memory also they are proved inferior. Rather superior in some matter.
"So the claim that women are inferior than men in intelligence etc. is false, like the many claims of islam".
It was not my claim. It was my doubt that which is not proved so far.
written by Reed Wilson. , January 05, 2011
Pleas read 'Regarding memory also they are NOT proved inferior'.
written by fineliving56 , January 05, 2011
Now you think women are intelligent enough to be 1to 1 as witness …if so that mean you do NOT really agree with Quran all the way .
written by eddy , January 11, 2011
Another reason why I left Islam is that Quran is full of internal contradictions, scientific errors and historical blunders. Muslims claim that Quran is ‘a miracle of miracles.’ This statement is a blatant and greatest lie ever told. Here are a few samples of contradictions in Quran: examples of internal contradictions-- 54:19 mentions Aad was destroyed in a day but 69:6,7 mentions Aad was destroyed in seven nights and eight days; 19:17 shows an angel appeared to Mary but 3:42 shows several angels appeared; 28:40 mentions pharaoh drowned and died but 10:92 states that the same pharaoh was saved; examples of scientific errors--18:86 states that sun sets in a muddy spring of water; 15:19 mentions earth is flat; 86:6,7 states that semen emits from between back-bone and the ribs; examples of historical blunders—19:27,28 states that Mary was the sister of Aaron, whereas history shows they were born about 1300 years apart; 28:8 tells that pharaoh and Haman were living at the same time and place whereas history clearly shows they were born about 1000 years apart and pharaoh lived in Egypt and Haman lived in Shushan city in Persia; and 4:157 says that Jesus was not crucified whereas it is crystal clear in historical records that Jesus was crucified and not another man who looked like Jesus. By the way, the transliterated name of Jesus in arabic Quran is Isa but even this is wrong because the name of Esau, brother of Jacob (Yaqub in arabic) is Isa in arabic. The correct transliterated name of Jesus in arabic is Yasu. Isa (Esau) means ‘hairy’ and Yasu (Jesus) means ‘God saves.’ Muslims tell so many lies to cover up all internal contradictions, scientific errors and historical blunders in Quran. Any sane person can become sick of Muslim apologists’ deception and lies of ‘out of context,’ ‘bad translation’ and ‘arabic Quran can not be translated’ to hide and conceal the contradictions in the Quran.
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All these things honor thy woman!
She is in need of discipline!!
If beating the wives is an honor to them, then they should be beaten daily, one time or more...The more beatings, the more honor heaped on her...
If it is the husband who needs discipline, who gives it to him?
If the husband is in need of discipline, and the wives x 4 don't beat him, are they dishonoring him? Doesn't dishonoring the hubby call for a beating?
Or maybe the hubby is immune from wrong doing and is never disciplined...
And that's the way it is...I have never encountered a Muslim who was guilty of anything...