Who was Allah? A Pagan deity, the Moon God of the Arabs.
"And (mention, O’ Muhammad) when your Lord said to his angels: 'Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority.' They said: 'Will You place upon it one -whom causes corruption therein and sheds blood, whilst we declare Your praise and sanctify You?' He [Allah] said: 'Indeed, I know all that which you do not know'…”? [Quran 2:30-31]
Allah as the Koran reveals
Allah is the name of the ‘only’ God in Islam. The Arabic name for “God” is the word "Al-ilah". Allah is a pre-Islamic name coming from the compound Arabic word “Al-ilah, which means the God and is derived from al (the) and ilah (deity)”. It is a generic title for whatever/whichever god was considered as the highest amongst gods!
Different Pagan Arab tribes used “Allah” to refer to its personal high god. “Allah” was being worshipped at the Kaa’ba in Mecca by the Pagan Bedouin Arabs prior to the time of Prophet Muhammad bin Abdullah. It was formerly the name of their chief god amongst the numerous idol-gods (360 approx) in the Kaaba at Mecca before Prophet Muhammad forced them into accepting his one-god-worshipping monotheistic creed, Islam. Numerous historians have shown that the moon-god, called “Hubal”, was the main god to whom these pagan Bedouin Arabs offered their prayers at the Kaa’ba; and they used the name “Allah” as and when they prayed.
A Muslim is one, who submits to the will of Allah! Islam means submission (to Allah), but originally it meant ‘strength which characterized a desert warrior, who, even when faced with impossible odds, would fight to the death for his tribe’. [Dr. M. Baravmann, The Spiritual Background of Early Islam, E. J. Brill, Leiden, 1972]
Many believe the word “Allah” was derived from the mid-eastern word “el”, which in Ugaritic, Canaanite and Hebrew, and can mean a true or false God. This is not the case, “the source of this (Allah) goes back to pre-Islamic times. Allah is not a common name meaning “God” (or a “god”), and the Muslim must use another word or form if he wishes to indicate any other than his own peculiar deity.” [Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (ed. Hastings), I:326.]
According to the Encyclopedia of Religion, Allah corresponded to the Babylonian god Baal, and these Pagan Arabs knew of him long before Prophet Muhammad ever worshipped Him as the supreme God. Before Islam came into being, these Pagan Arabs recognized many gods and goddesses, each tribe had their own sacred deity and there were also nature deities. Allah was the god of the local Pagan Bedouin Qureish tribe, to which Muhammad belonged, before he created Islam to lead his chosen peoples out of worshipping polytheistic deities. Allah was then known as “HUBAL” the Moon God, who had 3 daughters (Al-Laht, Al-Manat & Al-Uzza), considered as intercessors for the worshippers unto Allah. Their names were Al-at, Al-uzza, and Al-Manat, which were three goddesses; the first two daughters of Allah had names which were feminine forms of Allah. Hubal was the chieftain God of Gods at the Kaaba amongst the other 360 idol deities. He was a statue in the likeness of a man, whose body was made of red precious stones and arms made of gold. [Reference Islam, George Braswell Jr.]
Historians like Al-Waqqidi have said Allah was actually the chieftain of these 360 idol-gods being worshipped in Arabia at the time Muhammad rose to prominence. Ibn Al-Kalbi gave 27 names of pre-Islamic deities. Interestingly, not many Muslims would ever want to accept that Allah was already being worshipped at the Ka'ba in Mecca by Arab pagans before Muhammad came. Muslims become angry when they are confronted with these facts! Yet, history will never be on their side, because this is the Ultimate Truth. Pre-Islamic literature has proved this. [G. J. O. Moshay, Who Is This Allah?, Dorchester House, Bucks, UK, 1994, pg. 138].
History has shown that Mecca and the holy stone at al-Kaaba were holy sites for pre-Islamic pagan Arabs. The Kaaba in Mecca was formerly named Beit-Allah, meaning House of Allah. We are told by Muslims that it was first built in heaven. This is in contradistinction to what Prophet Moses was instructed to build, something overlooked by Muslims in their reading of the Bible and Torah.
The Noble Koran [Allah’s book] tells us that Prophet Muhammad drove/broken/thrown the other idols away from the Kaaba; and made now one God the only god and himself as its holy messenger. He kept the Kaaba as a holy, sacred place and confirmed that the black stone (hajar al-aswad) had sacred powers to take away man's sins, as also believed by the pre-Islamic Pagans. He obligated every believer to make a pilgrimage to the Black Stone kept at the Kaaba at least once in his/her lifetime. [Surah 22:26-37] No Old Testament saint had ever made a pilgrimage to the Kaaba and kissed its Black Stone, despite such stories that Abraham and his illegitimate son Ishmael restored it at the Kaaba.
So, Muhammad simply used the name Allah, the name of an existing and regularly worshipped deity, thereby, without distinguishing it from the idol-gods of the Pagan Meccans. Muhammad’s grandfather was a high priest and keeper of this idol. His own father was named Abdullah (i.e. Abd-ilah = slave of ilah), which means "keeper of Al-ilah". This was simply a modification of the Pagan's former worship, but never a complete break. He never did say for the people to stop their worship of the wrong Allah, or for the right one! He just instituted worship of one of the 360 idol-gods of the pre-Islamic Pagans of Mecca, nothing else.
The goddess Al-Laht, which is a T at the end of the name of Allah, was represented by a square stone, whose major sanctuary was in the city of Taif. In the sanctuary, there was a Black Stone in the town of Qudayd between Mecca and Medina. She was the goddess of fate, a female counterpart of Allah. Al-Uzza was the goddess of east Mecca. It has been said that there were human sacrifices made to her and the Islamic traditions tell of a story of Muhammad’s grandfather almost sacrificing his son the father of Muhammad to her. What prevented this was his seeking counsel from a fortune teller, who told him to ransom his son with one hundred camels. Muslims look to this as the will of Allah to bring Muhammad into existence. [Reference Muhammad Husain Haykal, Hayat Muhammad]
“The name Allah, as the Qur'an itself is witness, was well known in pre-Islamic Arabia. Indeed, both it and its feminine form, Al-laht, are found not infrequently among the Theophanous names in inscriptions from North Africa.” [(Arthur Jeffrey, ed. Islam: Muhammad and His Religion ,1958, p. 85.)]
The literal name of Muhammad's father in Arabic is Abd Allah and his uncle's name was Obeid Allah. These names symbolizes Muhammad's family pagan roots, and also prove that Allah was part of a polytheistic system of worship before He was made the supreme and only god, discarding the rest. This should be proof to Muslims that the name Allah has pre-Islamic roots, rather say, it was the name of one the gods the Pagan Arabs worshipped. Muhammad had good intentions in taking Pagans of Mecca away from polytheistic worship; however, he did not go far enough in his godly reforms.
Pre-Islamic Mecca was the place where the idol Allah was located, and the people of Arabia used turn to that direction when they prayed to their Allah. According to "The Encyclopedia of Islam" (p. 303), before Islam, the Arabs used to turn toward Mecca 5 times a day for praying to the Pagan deity, Al-ilah, their high god/goddess. Given Allah or Al-ilah was the Arabicized name of the Moon God Hubal, the crescent moon, the religious symbol in Islam, simply signifies Hubal, the Moon God. (Muslims have changed its significance today to mean from Mecca to the moon Islam will spread). Today, there is hardly a Muslim that knows the ancient pagan origins of Allah and the Crescent Moon, or they are not told to know such history of pre-Islamic deities!
Historical records say that the Black Stone, shaped in a vagina, was an ancient pagan fertility symbol, found throughout the Middle East. Prophet Muhammad smashed all the idols of the pagan Bedouin Arabs, but the Black Stone still remains one of the holiest symbols in Islam and is the object of the ritual worship during Umra and Hajj pilgrimages, when Muslims devotees to kiss Black Stone. Devotion to the Black Stone is thus another practice that preceded Mohammad’s times.
Muhammad made Allah into a single being, who, unlike the Biblical God, called Father, has no Son. Because of this portrayal, there is no fellowship or love amongst the godhead and his creations. To a Muslim, God is strictly singular, all seeing, all hearing, almighty; he is the first and the last. As concerns Islam's difference with Christianity, Allah has no Son and he cannot be called a Father, who relates to his son in a unique way (Son and Father does not mean offspring in historic Christianity).
There are 99 names of Allah in Islam, symbolizing him as an entity, who is the most merciful to one the most cruel and barbaric. In Islam, some believe that if one memorizes the 99 names of Allah and repeats them, he/she will go to paradise (heaven), because they give the believer power, making them conscious of God. Neither the Koran nor the Hadith speak of these names in such a way. The Surahs in the Koran begin with “In the name of Allah, most gracious, most merciful”. Yet in practice Islam's god is portrayed as a stern, harsh, having compassion on those who do right and deals severely with those who do not believe or obey him. To a Muslim, the God of the Bible, who is described as triune, is offensive and paganish, reminding them of what Muhammad destroyed at the altars in the holy Kaaba. This is recorded in their Koran. They interpret this as 3 separate Gods and not a unified one. The Quran says: “They are unbelievers who say God is a third of three. No God is there but one God.” While Muslims affirm Jesus' virgin conception, they deny he had any pre-existence that would imply he is God? To call a prophet God is the ultimate in blasphemy to them. “Verily God will not forgive the union of other gods with himself.”
Muslims claim that their God is the same as that of the Old and New Testaments (i.e. of Jews and Christians) and that the name 'Allah' can be found in the Bible. This is a claim no different from what the Jehovah's Witnesses do claim for the name Jehovah. In reality, Allah is not called Yahweh even once in the Koran, neither is Yahweh called Allah in the Bible! So, they both can't be the same God. Neither is the word Elohim, which is applied to Yahweh over 2,500 times in the Bible, is ever used in the Koran. Neither is he called ‘I Am’, which god said to Moses would be his name forever in the Bible. The God of the Bible identifies himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jacobs’ name is later changed to 'Israel', being the father of the 12 tribes of Israel. The God of the Bible calls Jerusalem the city of David and that the Messiah would descend from his lineage. Neither does the God of the Bible not mention Mecca or Medina but, instead, Jerusalem some 800 times. Yet, Jerusalem is not even mentioned in Allah’s Koran, which the Muslims claim as their own true holy words of god!
The God in the Bible is called the God of the Jews, which is impossible with Allah and his Islam. The Jews are called his chosen people, but they are not Allah's chosen ones. Allah commands the Muslim to not take the Jews or Christians as friends or family. Surah.5:51 disdain the Jews. Muhammad said, “the last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them”. [Mishkat Al Masabih Sh.M. Ashraf, p.147, 721, 810-11, 1130]. So, how could Israel inherit the land or any of God's promises from Allah, if he is to be their God? Clearly, he is also not the same God of the Bible either!
Muslims are trying to prove their positions, using the Old Testament word "halleluyah", interpreting the first part of it "halle" as "Allah". The word [H]alleluyah is not a compound Hebrew word. It is not two words, but a singular word meaning praise to Yahweh (halle = praise, lu= to, yah = Yaweh). The beginning of the word is Hallel meaning praise, an adjective. It has to be a common noun to mean Allah or God. And the last syllable of the word is a reference to Yahweh the God of the Bible. So, if we were to agree with Muslims, its meaning would be: Allah (God) to Yahweh (God). It makes no sense; the Muslim claim is absurd.
Muslims' game-playing with 'words' gets only more ludicrous as they try to have Jesus saying the name of their God, i.e. Allah. When Jesus was on the cross, he cried out Eli, Eli, which they interpret as Allah, Allah. Here Jesus was quoting the Biblical Psalm 22:1, which says: “Eli, Eli Sabbathani” (“My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?”). What makes even more ludicrous is the fact that Muslims don't even believe that it was actually Jesus, who was placed on the cross; instead, he was imposter in the likeness of Jesus.
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“Do not share the knowledge with which you have been blessed with everyone in general, as you do with some people in particular; and know that there are some men in whom Allah, may He be glorified, whom has placed hidden secrets, which they are forbidden to reveal…” Ali ibn Abi Talib
To be continued…
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written by ekenic , August 05, 2011
Yes the last point ties Muslims up in knots. For Muslims who claim Jesus said those words (to deny Jesus was the Son of God) is toadmiit jesus was actuallly crucified, which the Koran denies! Logic is not a strong point of Allah and his slaves
written by vbv , August 05, 2011
I am apalled at the claims of monotheism being superior to polytheism. The monotheists look down upon polytheists as though they are lesser humanbeings, put on superior airs as though they are the only enlightened people and sole owners of 'truth'. While the fact is monotheistic god is no better than any polytheistic god - silly, throwing tantrums like a spoilt child, selfish,wicked,narcissistic,vengeful and having all the negative traits of a human despot. This monotheistic spook lives in cloud 9 in the skies over us always peeking into our mundane affairs meting out tribal ,barbarian justice purportedly in the socalled "hereafter" ,while the Universe is so infinitely large and our planet is a small dot in our Solar system , our Solar system is a small speck in our Galaxy ,our Galaxy is a small speck in the superclusters of galaxies and so on ad infinitum. In the light of all these facts this fictional spook that superstitious humans call "god" or whatever looks so stupid and insignificant ,and certainly not 'majestic' or 'magnificent'. This god/Allah/Yahweh/Iswar,etc are figment of human imagination. They are the creation of deluded ,superstitious dolts or plain scheming conmen who live at the expense of honest but superstitious people ,the way clergy/popes/imams,mullahs /saints/godmen/gurus live today in opulence and political power. It is all power polititics and moneymaking scams.
written by FAIROZ , August 05, 2011
NICE now kuffar(like E. J. Brill, Leiden) will tell who is Allah.
the idolators asked the Prophet
Saws.gif for the "lineage of your Lord." This Surah Ikhlas was revealed in response to this request
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only! Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him.
the idolators asked the Prophet
Saws.gif for the "lineage of your Lord." This Surah Ikhlas was revealed in response to this request Say: He is Allah, the One and Only! Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him.
written by Brown Superman , August 05, 2011
That Moon-God Allah is a pagan one.
But the allah of islam and mussies is one that was faked by the Terrorist Chief to get some morons and crackpots to join him for attacking the peaceful mind-own-business desert and oasis inhabitants for loot. Of course Mo' manufactured the bullshit scripts called Koran as people (especially the camel dung brained ones) feared the unknown and listened to the crap produced. Only the crap believers became mussies and this creed exists till today.... probably till 2025.
Mo' also manufactured further scripts for screwing a child, daughter-in-law, cousin, dead aunt, slaves, captives and even katty who was old enough to be his mother. We even have mussies today defending Mo' extra-ordinary f**king practice and skills. Head he died with an erection (probably he was thinking of the virgin camel he missed).
But the allah of islam and mussies is one that was faked by the Terrorist Chief to get some morons and crackpots to join him for attacking the peaceful mind-own-business desert and oasis inhabitants for loot. Of course Mo' manufactured the bullshit scripts called Koran as people (especially the camel dung brained ones) feared the unknown and listened to the crap produced. Only the crap believers became mussies and this creed exists till today.... probably till 2025.
Mo' also manufactured further scripts for screwing a child, daughter-in-law, cousin, dead aunt, slaves, captives and even katty who was old enough to be his mother. We even have mussies today defending Mo' extra-ordinary f**king practice and skills. Head he died with an erection (probably he was thinking of the virgin camel he missed).
written by Malem , August 05, 2011
There is no Moon God nor is it related to Allah, however Allah did create the Moon and Sun (you would need to actually read the Quran to see that though). Also there is always this "And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not bow down (prostrate) to the sun nor to the moon, but only bow down (prostrate) to "Allah" Who created them, if you (really) worship Him." [Quran 41:37]
Nice try though stuperman.
Nice try though stuperman.
written by bundypig , August 05, 2011
and powerful allah tell ol mo that the sun set in a muddy swamp at the end of a flat earth?
Some dupes will believe anything hahaha
Hey malman, I have some beautiful beachfront property I need to sell cheap...it's in Arizona, you want it
rotflmao
Some dupes will believe anything hahaha
Hey malman, I have some beautiful beachfront property I need to sell cheap...it's in Arizona, you want it
rotflmao
written by duh_swami , August 05, 2011
Whatever happened to Ar-Rahman?
Allah is the moon god SIN of Ur of Chaldea given a name change and a promotion to ultimate god by Mohammad...Mohammad appropriated the NAME Allah and applied it for his own use...These are compound lies told by a compound liar...
That Malman and other Muslims believe the fairy tale version, only attests to mental weakness, and childhood wish fulfillment fantasy...
Allah the moon god is SIN...One of the meanings of the word chaldee is demon...Ur means light, so Ur of Chaldea means light of the demons...
The people who lived there at the time practiced magic and demon worship, with SIN as the chief demon...When Abraham, if he ever actually existed, fled Chaldea, he was probably fleeing Sin and it's devotees...Which was probably a smart move on his part...It is unlikely that Abraham who was running from SIN the moon god, would carry this demon with him, and establish a moon god cult elsewhere...If Abraham was alive today, he would know exactly what I'm talking about, and agree...
Allah is the moon god SIN of Ur of Chaldea given a name change and a promotion to ultimate god by Mohammad...Mohammad appropriated the NAME Allah and applied it for his own use...These are compound lies told by a compound liar...
That Malman and other Muslims believe the fairy tale version, only attests to mental weakness, and childhood wish fulfillment fantasy...
Allah the moon god is SIN...One of the meanings of the word chaldee is demon...Ur means light, so Ur of Chaldea means light of the demons...
The people who lived there at the time practiced magic and demon worship, with SIN as the chief demon...When Abraham, if he ever actually existed, fled Chaldea, he was probably fleeing Sin and it's devotees...Which was probably a smart move on his part...It is unlikely that Abraham who was running from SIN the moon god, would carry this demon with him, and establish a moon god cult elsewhere...If Abraham was alive today, he would know exactly what I'm talking about, and agree...
written by Brown Superman , August 05, 2011
Read a crap book if you want craps. Koran is one such book.
If there was no moon-god, what is the f'king moon crescent doing in the great 'Slam?
How do you know there was no moon god nore than 14 centuries ago? You never got out of the islamic shell called Ko-ran.
Yes, yes, bow down to alla so that Mo' could try an entry from the rear...... like he did to the mules, camels, donkeys, swines and boys.
You never said anythng about his screwing adventures. His wives were also playing with their breasts but on the sand dune parks?
How pathetic of you, a double barrelled gunner who shoots two targets at one go? Keep trying ..... more of your jelly bullets are accumulating at her rear.
I am begining to speak your language...... the one you understand most!
If there was no moon-god, what is the f'king moon crescent doing in the great 'Slam?
How do you know there was no moon god nore than 14 centuries ago? You never got out of the islamic shell called Ko-ran.
Yes, yes, bow down to alla so that Mo' could try an entry from the rear...... like he did to the mules, camels, donkeys, swines and boys.
You never said anythng about his screwing adventures. His wives were also playing with their breasts but on the sand dune parks?
How pathetic of you, a double barrelled gunner who shoots two targets at one go? Keep trying ..... more of your jelly bullets are accumulating at her rear.
I am begining to speak your language...... the one you understand most!
written by Brown Superman , August 05, 2011
Allah was worried that the desert morons might go looking for the setting sun.......so it told about muddy swamps because the desert landers neverliked water. They do not take bath but use the popular arab perfume At-tar.
Malem does not bathe too. But he washes his peeled dick in the two zam zam wells (version 1 and version 2) at his home.
Malem does not bathe too. But he washes his peeled dick in the two zam zam wells (version 1 and version 2) at his home.
written by Brown Superman , August 05, 2011
are arrogant mad creatures of Mo' since 1400 years ago but lay claim to from Adam, Eve, etc etc until Jesus as if they were people of islam. Even Mo's Uncle, Grandfather etc did not become Mussies because they knew very well that Mo' was not a good person but the loafers who wanted to rob and steal joined Mo's gang. The rest is history.
written by Walter Sieruk , August 05, 2011
The God of the Bible is not the same god as the god of Islam which is a moon god. Through the passing of time it has became wildly accepted that the word Allah is just the Arabic word for God. This started ehen truth comproming Bible "translators" substitued the word Allah where the word God should have been used in the Arabic translation of the Bible. Furthermore, in the glossary in the book ASSASSINS ! by Dr. Ha ha Lung defines Allah as the "Pre-islamic Lunar god : god of Islam." Likewise, the book INSIDE ISLAM by Reza F. Safa on pages 22,23. reads "In pre-Islamic times both Allah-worship and baal- worship involved the worship of the sun, moon and the stars which defines them as astral religions.[Which are condemmedin the Bible , Second Kings 21 :3,4. 23:5. Second Chronicles 33:5.] The cresent moon, which was the symbol of moon worship is also the symbol of Islam." In short the moon god, Allah, is not the God of the Bible.
The words in brackets are my own. Other books that cover this subject are :
WHO IS THIS ALLAH ? by G.J.O. Moshay
UNVEILING ISLAM by Ergun Mehmet Caner and Emir Fethi Caner
THE ISLAMIC INVASION by Robert Morey
PHILISTINE by Ramon Bennett
The words in brackets are my own. Other books that cover this subject are :
WHO IS THIS ALLAH ? by G.J.O. Moshay
UNVEILING ISLAM by Ergun Mehmet Caner and Emir Fethi Caner
THE ISLAMIC INVASION by Robert Morey
PHILISTINE by Ramon Bennett
written by Guy Macher , August 05, 2011
Why would the God of Israel hate Jews? That's a rhetorical question to Muslims. Answer: He wouldn't; ergo Jehovah is not Allah. Allah is Satan because he hates everything God loves!
You can never learn anything truthful about Islam from Muslims, since they are pre-rational and liars.
You can never learn anything truthful about Islam from Muslims, since they are pre-rational and liars.
written by duh_swami , August 06, 2011
Hmm, I don't think Allah is Satan...The office of Satan is above Allah's pay grade...Satan and Moloch are the co chiefs of the
Qlipoth...You can visualize the Qlipoth as a ten floor hotel for demons, with each floor having a specific type of resident demon...The higher the floor, the more powerful and active the demons...Because Allah is not a real anything, he is invented, he has no life of his own, and is forced, by Satan to sleep in the Qlipoth basement...Satan doesn't like Allah much anyway...He just uses him as a tool...
Qlipoth...You can visualize the Qlipoth as a ten floor hotel for demons, with each floor having a specific type of resident demon...The higher the floor, the more powerful and active the demons...Because Allah is not a real anything, he is invented, he has no life of his own, and is forced, by Satan to sleep in the Qlipoth basement...Satan doesn't like Allah much anyway...He just uses him as a tool...
written by Reed Wilson. , August 06, 2011
You all fondly call him Moon God whereas he is creator of sun, moon and entire Universe.
written by duh_swami , August 06, 2011
The real God created, or was the prime cause of the universe and everything in it to come into existence, but that is not Allah...Things come into existence in parts so when certain parts were observed, humans gave them names, the sun, moon and solar system are some of the parts we know of...Certain things happen on earth as a result of these parts, or at least some of them...The sun is necessary for life and growth while the moon controls the tides and anything to do with water and reproduction...The sun and the moon together conspire to create weather...and the all important rainfall...Because the effects of these parts were so powerful they were often worshipped and given names and called gods, Sun god, moon god etc...Allah is forever associated with the moon and it's symbolism, the crescent and star are proof enough...The sun is the Christ center or sphere of sacrificed gods...It is superior to the moon and it's false god Allah...Allah created nothing...
written by Dwito , August 06, 2011
You all fondly call him Moon God whereas he is creator of sun, moon and entire Universe.
I just asked the question to another I was supposed to ask you, anyway both of you could answer yourself. Let's see who is more fool!
My question was - If Allah is the creator of this universe, so where was He before he created this Universe?
I just asked the question to another I was supposed to ask you, anyway both of you could answer yourself. Let's see who is more fool!
My question was - If Allah is the creator of this universe, so where was He before he created this Universe?
written by Cerebrum123 , August 06, 2011
I won't speak for Allah ,but I think you have the same question concerning God. God is an infinite ,omnipresent ,omnipotent ,and omniscient being. God is not subject to the laws of this universe or the finite space within. I suppose you could say that what is called the third heaven is almost like an extra-dimensional realm outside the universe. God as creator is not subject to His own creation otherwise He would not be all powerful. While it is possible to know God it is impossible for our finite minds to fully comprehend His infinite attributes. There are certain things that we will never know ,and can never know due to our limitations. God does not have these limitations so only He knows everything.
written by Dwito , August 06, 2011
Dear sir,
Thanks for the answer. Although I have no problem whether God is there or not. That is not my concern at all, at least till he creates any problem to me. All that is horrific to me is the nature of the way of thinking of a so called literate mind. How can a man who is said to be a man of logic can think in this way?
I would rather like to wait to see what my friend has for me!
Anyway, I can't stop to ask you one - you said, " is impossible for our finite minds to fully comprehend His infinite attributes. There are certain things that we will never know ,and can never know due to our limitations" and you also said, "God does not have these limitations so only He knows everything"
My question is how do you know this?
Thanks for the answer. Although I have no problem whether God is there or not. That is not my concern at all, at least till he creates any problem to me. All that is horrific to me is the nature of the way of thinking of a so called literate mind. How can a man who is said to be a man of logic can think in this way?
I would rather like to wait to see what my friend has for me!
Anyway, I can't stop to ask you one - you said, " is impossible for our finite minds to fully comprehend His infinite attributes. There are certain things that we will never know ,and can never know due to our limitations" and you also said, "God does not have these limitations so only He knows everything"
My question is how do you know this?
written by Cerebrum123 , August 06, 2011
The Bible shows the character and power of God in ways that we can understand for the most part. These attributes include omniscience ,omnipotence ,omnipresence ,love ,mercy ,and justice. Is it logical to conclude an omnipotent being would have the limits of His own creation? Is it logical to believe that such a a being as God isn't capable of understanding everything He created? We ourselves know that we are imperfect ,and fallible beings. If God was imperfect ,and fallible like us then He wouldn't be God. Logic is something that would be impossible outside of the Biblical worldview. God is logical ,and created this universe in a logical ,and orderly way (the laws of physics for example) ,and He has promised to uphold His creation in this way. We are made in the image of God so we have the capability for logic because of this. In a completely material universe the laws of logic could not exist ,because they are immaterial by nature ,the same goes with the laws of physics. We take these laws for granted ,because they have always been there ,and been the same throughout time ,but without God to uphold them any past experience would be useless in determining the way things work tomorrow making things like science impossible. This is not to say that people who do not believe in God can't do science or use logic ,just that they are inconsistent in their work. They are borrowing Biblical principles ,and often to argue against the Bible. Do you understand what I'm saying?
written by The Great Buana , August 06, 2011
Not so many people know that December 24th was the day of the pagan god Sol Invictus before the christianisation of Rome. Sol Invictus was replaced only. Other elements of christianity derive from the cult of Mithras which was als very widespread in ancient Rome. Therefore, the fact that Allah may have derived from a Moon God, Hubal or any other god is nothing special. It is very, very common. Gods of the Azteks very replaced by christian Saints and hindu Gods or local gods by buddhist bodhisattas. All religions share the fact that they are influenced by local or regional traditions they inheritated. Muhammad was strongly influenced by Jews and Christians, thats why he so strongly supported monotheism. However, if he wouild had grown up in India, he would have been influenced by other ideas such as reicarnation, dharma and karma. It is that simple. We can even find out where Muhammad took his ideas from: The bible, gnostic scriptures, talmud and so on.
written by Cerebrum123 , August 06, 2011
It is true that certain holidays have become influenced by pagan traditions over the years ,but this doesn't mean that the holidays have their roots in paganism. Satan is the father of lies ,and his best work usually involves a little bit of truth in the mix. SO we shouldn't be surprised when such pagan religions have a small basis in truth or small similarities. These similarities are pretty much always superficial things like the dates of holidays. In fact originally Jesus' birth was celebrated along with a celebration called Epiphany and was on January 6th.
As for your question about who God is ,the Bible gives the best description of His character. The Bible for the most part is pretty straight forward ,and is easy to understand for most people. The complicated stuff is mostly prophecy like in Revelation for example.
As for your question about who God is ,the Bible gives the best description of His character. The Bible for the most part is pretty straight forward ,and is easy to understand for most people. The complicated stuff is mostly prophecy like in Revelation for example.
written by dead or alive , August 06, 2011
Slut walk at www.philly.com Hundreds marched in Philadelphia today to protest a culture that they say blames women for sexual assault.'I wonder what culture that is.The paper did not mention Islam.
written by dsds , August 06, 2011
Jesus said John the Baptist is the last prophet, Matthew 11:13
God never said He is allah , God of islam and God of muslim. allah was created by muslims to deceive human beings for Satan.
Satan is blocking by the Spirit of God, he can't kill human beings. Satan is using muslims to kill and deceive for him : Satan wanted human beings to be destroyed like him.
Satan is a very cunning person, he is finding evil persons and can be manipulated to work for him.
God never said He is allah , God of islam and God of muslim. allah was created by muslims to deceive human beings for Satan.
Satan is blocking by the Spirit of God, he can't kill human beings. Satan is using muslims to kill and deceive for him : Satan wanted human beings to be destroyed like him.
Satan is a very cunning person, he is finding evil persons and can be manipulated to work for him.
written by Archpagan , August 07, 2011
Jesus Christ wanted to create a parallel power center by starting a reform movement within Judaism. Naturally, he invited the wrath of the Jewish clergy who got him sentenced to death by the Roman Governor. So, Jesus Christ was a complete failure. The theory that Jesus Christ laid down his life to save humanity is the biggest fraud ever to be perpetrated on mankind. It is an utter nonsense to a non-believer.
St Paul established what we now call Christianity, by inventing the idea of converting the Gentiles into neo-Jews . Christianity is nothing but Judaism transplanted upon a degenerated form of Roman Mithraism. It should be rightly called Paulism. The Gospel and the codes of Christianity were compiled under the supervision of King Constantine who was also the chief priest of Mithraism. Jesus Christ's life as you know now, was actually 'voted upon' in a synod presided over by the same king cum priest.
Disciples of Jesus Christ faithfully carried on his legacy by trying to establish parallel power centers. In the past the popes engaged kings in power struggles, now we see Christian Churches of the west sending money to non-Christian nations for the purpose of harvesting souls, so as to rule over them in future.
St Paul established what we now call Christianity, by inventing the idea of converting the Gentiles into neo-Jews . Christianity is nothing but Judaism transplanted upon a degenerated form of Roman Mithraism. It should be rightly called Paulism. The Gospel and the codes of Christianity were compiled under the supervision of King Constantine who was also the chief priest of Mithraism. Jesus Christ's life as you know now, was actually 'voted upon' in a synod presided over by the same king cum priest.
Disciples of Jesus Christ faithfully carried on his legacy by trying to establish parallel power centers. In the past the popes engaged kings in power struggles, now we see Christian Churches of the west sending money to non-Christian nations for the purpose of harvesting souls, so as to rule over them in future.
written by duh_swami , August 07, 2011
It is true that certain holidays have become influenced by pagan traditions over the years ,but this doesn't mean that the holidays have their roots in paganism.
Easter was a celebration of spring, one of the pagan goddesses associated with Easter is Astarte a Babylonian goddess...Colored eggs were used in the celebrations... Christian holidays are more influenced by pagan ideology and thought than most people realize...
Easter was a celebration of spring, one of the pagan goddesses associated with Easter is Astarte a Babylonian goddess...Colored eggs were used in the celebrations... Christian holidays are more influenced by pagan ideology and thought than most people realize...
written by Tanstaafl jw , August 07, 2011
True. In many cases, Christian saints took over the functions and names of local deities. Ireland's Saint Bridget was a pagan goddess of the hearth before becoming a saint.
Doesn't effect my opinion of Christianity, but an interesting tidbit.
Doesn't effect my opinion of Christianity, but an interesting tidbit.
written by The Great Buana , August 07, 2011
Interesting approach. But in my view Paul was paid by the Romans in order to domesticate the radical and fundamentalistic Judaism. There were many radicals who called themselves Messias=Christ and most of them were violent against the Romans. So why not establish a softcore version of messianic judaism for everyone, with hellenistic elements such as juvenile birth and peaceful separation of religion from government. Islam is just the opposite of that and in some regard islam resembles jewish christianity (circumcision, no pork, no Paulinism etc). However, islam is not identical to judaism or jewish christianity. It is something very artificial created only to have an ideology which provides a reason (islamic view of monotheism) to fight christians, jews and zoroastrians under the umbreall of an arabic islamic umma. In my view islamic monotheism is very primitive and very easy to transmit. Muslims do not even try to understand that the christian teaching of trinity does not mean that there are many gods; still islam regards this as the worst sin at all. Of course this is sheer nonsense since we can never find a true and final definition for what we call god. Muslims are teached that they must hate others because they believe in a different definition for god. Such a nonsense but this is almost all what islam has to teach.
written by Cerebrum123 , August 07, 2011
The oldest available records of the Gospel can be found as early as 70 A.D.. In case you didn't know this was LONG before Constantine lived. Your knowledge of the Bible and it's history is severely flawed. Constantine didn't make the Bible ,and neither did the church. The Bible wasn't put into one volume at first ,but the books inside were written long before Constantine or the Council of Nicea. Your attitude towards the salvation Jesus offers through His atonement work on the cross was predicted long ago 1 Corinthians 1:18
[ Christ Crucified Is God’s Power and Wisdom ] For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
You should do more research before attacking the Bible with nonsense like you posted above.
You have a very angry attitude towards Christianity ,did some one who is Christian or claiming to be Christian hurt you in some way? When I see people with the kind of anger you have towards Christianity it is nearly always one of two things. 1They were hurt by someone who is either a Christian or claiming to be one. 2 They are angry with God for their own sufferings in life. I could be completely wrong on those two reasons for your anger ,but they are the most common ones I see.
[ Christ Crucified Is God’s Power and Wisdom ] For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
You should do more research before attacking the Bible with nonsense like you posted above.
You have a very angry attitude towards Christianity ,did some one who is Christian or claiming to be Christian hurt you in some way? When I see people with the kind of anger you have towards Christianity it is nearly always one of two things. 1They were hurt by someone who is either a Christian or claiming to be one. 2 They are angry with God for their own sufferings in life. I could be completely wrong on those two reasons for your anger ,but they are the most common ones I see.
written by Reed Wilson. , August 07, 2011
Mr. ekenic. You write "Yes the last point ties Muslims up in knots. For Muslims who claim Jesus said those words (to deny Jesus was the Son of God) is to admit Jesus was actually crucified, which the Koran denies! Logic is not a strong point of Allah and his slaves.
Quranic version
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them [or it appeared so unto them], and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
—Qur'an 4:157–158
Christian Scholar's Version. The Gospels do not say Jesus was crucified, Gunnar Samuelsson says.
In fact, he argues, in the original Greek, the ancient texts reveal only that Jesus carried "some kind of torture or execution device" to a hill where "he was suspended" and died, says Samuelsson, who is an evangelical pastor as well as a New Testament scholar.
"We fight against each other," he reflects, but "the theological stances that keep churches apart are founded on things that we find between the lines.
"We have put a lot of things in the Bible that weren't there in the beginning that keep us apart. We need to get down on our knees as Christians together and read the Bible."
You will appreciate that there are several different theories about the death of Jesus. Therefore Quranic version 'and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow' is proved as a fact.
Quranic version
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them [or it appeared so unto them], and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
—Qur'an 4:157–158
Christian Scholar's Version. The Gospels do not say Jesus was crucified, Gunnar Samuelsson says.
In fact, he argues, in the original Greek, the ancient texts reveal only that Jesus carried "some kind of torture or execution device" to a hill where "he was suspended" and died, says Samuelsson, who is an evangelical pastor as well as a New Testament scholar.
"We fight against each other," he reflects, but "the theological stances that keep churches apart are founded on things that we find between the lines.
"We have put a lot of things in the Bible that weren't there in the beginning that keep us apart. We need to get down on our knees as Christians together and read the Bible."
You will appreciate that there are several different theories about the death of Jesus. Therefore Quranic version 'and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow' is proved as a fact.
written by CLEMENT-THE ISLAM-WATCH PASTOR , August 07, 2011
The Deity you believe as the Same with Judeo-Christian God was actually an Idol even if you claim ignorance, has this Allah ever answered the numerous prayers you offered to him? Doesn't that give you an inkling that this might be a dead god or idol that does not hear?
Please don't ask me about trinity again or Comforter and stop comparing the prophet of an Idol with Allah and untill you proof to us that yahweh is the same as Allah through intelligent comparism of their divine attributes , omnipotence, Omniscient and Omnipresence.
These are the major attributes that belong only to the Divine. You hope you understand.
Please don't ask me about trinity again or Comforter and stop comparing the prophet of an Idol with Allah and untill you proof to us that yahweh is the same as Allah through intelligent comparism of their divine attributes , omnipotence, Omniscient and Omnipresence.
These are the major attributes that belong only to the Divine. You hope you understand.
written by The Great Buana , August 07, 2011
First of all, the earliest fragments of the gospels are badly damaged and appeared around 120 ad. One is from the apokryphal Gospel of Thomas, one of the also apokrypjhal Gospel of Peter and one perhaps from John. Modern scholars would never say that these accounts are historical. There are no facts about Jesus in the Bible that can be asessed properly. Most of the texts from the gospel are taken from the Old testament or other biblical sources to make look Jesus as foreseen by the prophets and fulfillment of their prophecies.
Interestingly, the quran deals with this tradition in a way no historian would expect: The Quran AGREES with many tales from the gospels such as the virginity of Mary, that he performed many miracles (with permission by Allah!), that he was inspired by the Holy Ghost, that he was a Messia and other things (even that he was raised to heaven). There is also the story that Jesus created living birds from mud which was drawn from apokryphal sources. Of course this story was invented in order to show that Jesus was able to create living beings from mud just like gpd did. But here again the quran says that he DID this but only with the permission of god! Here the quran appears very illogical to me because it always tries to show that Jesus is NOT god. Why does Allah then refer to the creation of the bird? The answer is that this tales was very well known during this time and it also circulated in arabic. Here we can clearly see that Muhammad obviously had no deeper theological knowledge. Why did he not say that the story of the bird is sheer nonsense like all modern theologiians do?
Last but not least I refer to Reed and the cruxfication: The quote from the quran is clearly of gnostic origin. Gnostics beleieved that Jesus was not really cruxified because a god cannot die at the cross. They argued that he only apparently died (the same words like in the quran!) and this dcrtrine is known as docetism (greeK docein to appear). In this very important case the author of the quran drew from gnostic sources and put it into a different environment. Of course islam has nothing to do with gnosticism but that did not matter to Muhammad who only drew what he needed.
All in all, there is nothing about Jesus not drawn form other sources, and it seems, that Allah has nothing new to say about Jesus with the only exception that he is not the son of god. But there is absolutely no new information about him, about his character or anything.
Interestingly, the quran deals with this tradition in a way no historian would expect: The Quran AGREES with many tales from the gospels such as the virginity of Mary, that he performed many miracles (with permission by Allah!), that he was inspired by the Holy Ghost, that he was a Messia and other things (even that he was raised to heaven). There is also the story that Jesus created living birds from mud which was drawn from apokryphal sources. Of course this story was invented in order to show that Jesus was able to create living beings from mud just like gpd did. But here again the quran says that he DID this but only with the permission of god! Here the quran appears very illogical to me because it always tries to show that Jesus is NOT god. Why does Allah then refer to the creation of the bird? The answer is that this tales was very well known during this time and it also circulated in arabic. Here we can clearly see that Muhammad obviously had no deeper theological knowledge. Why did he not say that the story of the bird is sheer nonsense like all modern theologiians do?
Last but not least I refer to Reed and the cruxfication: The quote from the quran is clearly of gnostic origin. Gnostics beleieved that Jesus was not really cruxified because a god cannot die at the cross. They argued that he only apparently died (the same words like in the quran!) and this dcrtrine is known as docetism (greeK docein to appear). In this very important case the author of the quran drew from gnostic sources and put it into a different environment. Of course islam has nothing to do with gnosticism but that did not matter to Muhammad who only drew what he needed.
All in all, there is nothing about Jesus not drawn form other sources, and it seems, that Allah has nothing new to say about Jesus with the only exception that he is not the son of god. But there is absolutely no new information about him, about his character or anything.
written by Cerebrum123 , August 07, 2011
I suggest you read that appropriate article on this page concerning this Gunnar Samuelsson http://www.answersingenesis.or...e-06262010
As the article states the method that this man uses is called eisegesis which basiclly means that you are reading in your own interpretion into the text instead of readig their plain meaning. This has become common among so called "scholars".
As the article states the method that this man uses is called eisegesis which basiclly means that you are reading in your own interpretion into the text instead of readig their plain meaning. This has become common among so called "scholars".
written by Chanakya , August 07, 2011
All i know is that what ever or which ever entity is god..it cannot be the god as represented in the bible or the quran.
The god of the bible and quran shares the following attributes:
1) Stupidity;
2) Love of Slavery;
3) scientific illiteracy;
4) mathematics of a single digit IQ person;
5) Knowledge of universe equal to a monkey;
6) knowledge of medicine equal to a monkey;
7) savagery of deranged pig;
8) historical skills of a monkey;
9) technical skills of an idiot; and
10) thinking of silly old bedoiuns.
thank you
The god of the bible and quran shares the following attributes:
1) Stupidity;
2) Love of Slavery;
3) scientific illiteracy;
4) mathematics of a single digit IQ person;
5) Knowledge of universe equal to a monkey;
6) knowledge of medicine equal to a monkey;
7) savagery of deranged pig;
8) historical skills of a monkey;
9) technical skills of an idiot; and
10) thinking of silly old bedoiuns.
thank you
written by Archpagan , August 07, 2011
Tanstaafl jw: I heard that Perhaps Saint Bridget was Goddess Brigid or Bridget. On the wall of a famous Church in Sledgewig-Holstein (Germany), relief figurine of Goddess Frigga can be seen till date.
written by ekenic , August 08, 2011
What does Islam say Reed?I mean the standard Imam /recognised authorities like Ibn Kathir etc, not Reed the individual who has no authority
Do no ttherefore quote an obsure non Muslim to support your claim. An ignorant man who doesnt know the Quran states Christians should stand on their own scriptures!The desperate and the foolish do indeed clutch at straws.
Do no ttherefore quote an obsure non Muslim to support your claim. An ignorant man who doesnt know the Quran states Christians should stand on their own scriptures!The desperate and the foolish do indeed clutch at straws.
written by Kafirwala , August 08, 2011
According to Quran, Christ did not die on cross, but Allah raised him upto heaven. Well, then who died on the cross? A look- alike Allah supplanted. Why? Because Allah thinks that the prophets should not not be killed like ordinary people. Okay, then Why Allah cannot tell this fact to the people? If it is difficult for him to tell directly or show some signs, he needn't have told the people. They somehow would have learned the truth themselves, once they found out the disappearance of Christ for ever. But this act, removing Christ and substituting a duplicate in his place, no straight forward person will do, much less an exalted deity! Why, this Allah has no guts to tell people or make it known to them that he will not allow ordinary people to murder any prophet? No doubts, this Allah is one big fraud only.
written by vbv , August 08, 2011
Allah does not like his prophets to killed by "ordinary people" . That is a joke!@ What about Allah's favourite 'prophet' ,Muhammad? He was after all killed by an"ordinary person" : he was poisoned by his captive woman-slave. This is just bullshit. There is no Allah, God or any other bullshit of a superspook. All are created by either deluded idiots or super conmen to exploit the gullible people and live off them in comfort and security ,puting the "fear of 'god' in them " literally.
written by Reed Wilson. , August 08, 2011
The Great Buana. You write:
"There is also the story that Jesus created living birds from mud which was drawn from apokryphal sources".
"Why does Allah then refer to the creation of the bird? The answer is that this tales was very well known during this time and it also circulated in arabic."
"In this very important case the author of the quran drew from gnostic sources and put it into a different environment."
"All in all, there is nothing about Jesus not drawn form other sources, and it seems, that Allah has nothing new to say about Jesus with the only exception that he is not the son of god".
All of above objections are natural in the minds those who think that the God was just born with the Quran. It is declared in the book that God was existing since beginning and he gave same message to humanity , through his all messengers, from time to time.
Therefore repetition of same stories in various scriptures may not be mistaken as copying.
iups
"There is also the story that Jesus created living birds from mud which was drawn from apokryphal sources".
"Why does Allah then refer to the creation of the bird? The answer is that this tales was very well known during this time and it also circulated in arabic."
"In this very important case the author of the quran drew from gnostic sources and put it into a different environment."
"All in all, there is nothing about Jesus not drawn form other sources, and it seems, that Allah has nothing new to say about Jesus with the only exception that he is not the son of god".
All of above objections are natural in the minds those who think that the God was just born with the Quran. It is declared in the book that God was existing since beginning and he gave same message to humanity , through his all messengers, from time to time.
Therefore repetition of same stories in various scriptures may not be mistaken as copying.
iups
written by Archpagan , August 08, 2011
Thank you for quotes from Corinthians. Now, it is my turn to give you some quote from our Upanishads:
Avidyayam antare bartamanah
Swayam mudah panditan manyamanah,
Dandryamya manah pariyani mudah,
Andhe naiva niyamanah yatha andhah.
(Himself full of ignorance, he considers himself a sage, following wrong path he guides others, just as one blind man guides another.)
Rest assured, the verse was composed thousands of years before birth of your prophet.
Yes, there were dozens of Gospels before Constantine. Of those, only four (Mark, Mathew, John and Luke) were chosen as correct after some amendments through voting. All others were destroyed and banned in the council you referred. Contemporary Roman and Jewish sources made only some passing references about a rebel named Joshua. I advise you to study Dan Brown's 'Da Vinci Code' and Holger Kerstein's 'Jesus lived in India'.
In parts of North-Eastern India the Christians have become a majority, forcing Hindus to leave the lands of their domination. They are no better than the Jehadis.
Avidyayam antare bartamanah
Swayam mudah panditan manyamanah,
Dandryamya manah pariyani mudah,
Andhe naiva niyamanah yatha andhah.
(Himself full of ignorance, he considers himself a sage, following wrong path he guides others, just as one blind man guides another.)
Rest assured, the verse was composed thousands of years before birth of your prophet.
Yes, there were dozens of Gospels before Constantine. Of those, only four (Mark, Mathew, John and Luke) were chosen as correct after some amendments through voting. All others were destroyed and banned in the council you referred. Contemporary Roman and Jewish sources made only some passing references about a rebel named Joshua. I advise you to study Dan Brown's 'Da Vinci Code' and Holger Kerstein's 'Jesus lived in India'.
In parts of North-Eastern India the Christians have become a majority, forcing Hindus to leave the lands of their domination. They are no better than the Jehadis.
written by Cerebrum123 , August 08, 2011
First off all of those "other Gospels" were written hundreds of years after the fact ,and are known forgeries. Second "The Da Vinci Code" is a purely fictional book with no real basis in history. I have looked at the claim of Jesus living in India ,and there is no evidence to support the claim. All of these things are just attacks on the Bible's historicity which has been demonstrated to be accurate time and time again.
@ Chanakya
You obviously have NOT read the Bible ,and only the opinions of it's critics. You should actually read it before you begin criticizing it ,and God Himself. Where in the Bible does God have the attributes you have described above? Show me examples of His "scientific illiteracy" ,and the "love of slavery". I also ask you to show me using the Bible itself all of the other clams you have made concerning God's character. Yes slavery was allowed in the OT ,but there were a great deal of rules concerning the treatment of such slaves in order to prevent abuse. There was even a limit on how long a person could be kept as a slave. I'm guessing when you said "scientific illiteracy" you meant the age old myth that the Bible teaches a flat earth. This is simply untrue ,in fact the Bible clearly teaches the earth is spherical. The Bible isn't a science text book (thank goodness for that since they change pretty much every year) ,but unless you count miracles which are by definition something that cannot be tested by science ,then you won't find any errors in the Bible concerning science. You seem to be in the trap that since the Quran borrowed from the Bible that the two are somehow the same ,and that the Quranic claim that it is the same God being worshiped is true. Again I suggest you actually read the Bible itself rather than just listen to it's critics ,because they are by definition biased against the Bible.The Bible reveals the TRUE character of God ,and it's not even close to what you have described above.
@ Chanakya
You obviously have NOT read the Bible ,and only the opinions of it's critics. You should actually read it before you begin criticizing it ,and God Himself. Where in the Bible does God have the attributes you have described above? Show me examples of His "scientific illiteracy" ,and the "love of slavery". I also ask you to show me using the Bible itself all of the other clams you have made concerning God's character. Yes slavery was allowed in the OT ,but there were a great deal of rules concerning the treatment of such slaves in order to prevent abuse. There was even a limit on how long a person could be kept as a slave. I'm guessing when you said "scientific illiteracy" you meant the age old myth that the Bible teaches a flat earth. This is simply untrue ,in fact the Bible clearly teaches the earth is spherical. The Bible isn't a science text book (thank goodness for that since they change pretty much every year) ,but unless you count miracles which are by definition something that cannot be tested by science ,then you won't find any errors in the Bible concerning science. You seem to be in the trap that since the Quran borrowed from the Bible that the two are somehow the same ,and that the Quranic claim that it is the same God being worshiped is true. Again I suggest you actually read the Bible itself rather than just listen to it's critics ,because they are by definition biased against the Bible.The Bible reveals the TRUE character of God ,and it's not even close to what you have described above.
written by Walter Sieruk , August 08, 2011
The for Muslim and jihadist who is now a Christian by the name Walid Shoebat in his book WHY I LEFT JIHAD on pages 272,273. wrote "Islam is simple a revival of a Babyonian religion. The Moon god with the cresent moon and the star symbol Babylon , the Moon god was called 'Sin'." and "The Arabic word for 'god' is 'llah', meaning 'the god' ; pagan Arabia believed that the Moon god was the greatest of all the gods, hence the phrase 'Allahu Akbar' meaning 'Allah is greater'."... the pagans used 'Allah' in naming their children. Forexample, Muhammad's father waws called Abdullah meaning 'servent od Allah'." Further he explained "Allah is a pre-Islamic name...ccorresponding to the Babylonian god known as Bel. 'Bel' simply means 'lord' and this is the title of reverance to the Moon-god 'Sin'."
written by Yibel , August 08, 2011
The Ka’aba is a replica of the temple to Ah, the Egyptian lunar calendar god, located in Thebes (present day Luxor). Ah’s temple contained 360 statues just like the 360 idols in the Ka’aba prior to Muhammad’s taking over of Makkah. These statues represented the 360 days of an inaccurate solar year and were necessary to reconcile the moon cycles with the solar year. (According to Egyptian mythology, Ah only had 360 statues because he lost 5 days/nights to the Egyptian god Thoth in a dice game thus allowing Nuut, the night sky goddess, to give birth to Seth, Osiris and Isis. Thoth’s 5 day/nights were a religious holiday, or hajj.) Because Muhammad rejected these “idols,” the month of Ramadan now moves backward through the year. Muhammad failed to see the importance of these statues because he was not interested in creating an agricultural society, a society which needs a solar calendar. His main objective was the creation of a warrior society based on banditry, thievery and slave trading who main goal was world conquest and domination through raping, pillaging and plundering. Hence chapters 8 and 9 of the Qur’an, Al-Anfal, The Spoils.
written by Yibel , August 08, 2011
The 3 female deities known in the area around Makkah were Manat, al-Lat, and al-Uzza. All three had holy stones in their places of worship and representative astral symbols.
Al-lat was a fertility goddess, not the goddess of fate. She was the daughter of Al-Ah and his consort Lilith (from the cuneiform writings of the Sumerians of Babylon). Al-lat was the Arabic version of the Greek goddess Aphrodite Urania and her cubic rock stood in al-Taif near Maka’Ah. Her temple stood on the left side of the present mosque at Taif. Mughirah ibn Shu'bab destroyed her and burnt her temple to the ground. Al-lat was also the goddess of war and the goddess of the Hudhayl and the Khuza'ah. In addition,an image of Al-lat appears on a bronze coin of the ancient Nabateans (descendants of Ishmael) of Petra. This image bears a striking resemblance of the goddess Saraswati, the Hindu goddess of learning.
It was Manat (known to the Egyptians as Ma’at) who was the goddess of fate (see Egyptian mythology for full description).
Manat is the oldest of the three goddesses. Her star is Sirius, a bright bluish star that appears from January to April. The Qur'an (Surah Al-Najm, The Holy Star, 53:49) says that Allah is the Lord of the Alpha Sirius:
Al-Ah is God, the Lord of the galaxies (Alpha Sirius, the brightest star visible from earth)-53:49
YUSUFALI: That He is the Lord of Sirius (the Mighty Star);
PICKTHAL: And that He it is Who is the Lord of Sirius;
SHAKIR: And that He is the Lord of the Sirius; [Q 053.049]
Manat’s sacred black stone was located in a sanctuary in Qudayd, between Madinah (formerly Yathrib) and Makkah. Ali demolished her temple, took all her treasures and took them to Muhammad, including two swords which were presented to Manat by al-Harith ibn Abi-Shamir al-Ghaassan, the king of Ghassan. These swords were called Mikhdam and Rasub. Muhammad gave these two swords to Ali.
To this day, Arabs believe in the power of Manat, and they still shave themselves at the end of hajj before attending her pilgrimage site. To be continued...
Al-lat was a fertility goddess, not the goddess of fate. She was the daughter of Al-Ah and his consort Lilith (from the cuneiform writings of the Sumerians of Babylon). Al-lat was the Arabic version of the Greek goddess Aphrodite Urania and her cubic rock stood in al-Taif near Maka’Ah. Her temple stood on the left side of the present mosque at Taif. Mughirah ibn Shu'bab destroyed her and burnt her temple to the ground. Al-lat was also the goddess of war and the goddess of the Hudhayl and the Khuza'ah. In addition,an image of Al-lat appears on a bronze coin of the ancient Nabateans (descendants of Ishmael) of Petra. This image bears a striking resemblance of the goddess Saraswati, the Hindu goddess of learning.
It was Manat (known to the Egyptians as Ma’at) who was the goddess of fate (see Egyptian mythology for full description).
Manat is the oldest of the three goddesses. Her star is Sirius, a bright bluish star that appears from January to April. The Qur'an (Surah Al-Najm, The Holy Star, 53:49) says that Allah is the Lord of the Alpha Sirius:
Al-Ah is God, the Lord of the galaxies (Alpha Sirius, the brightest star visible from earth)-53:49
YUSUFALI: That He is the Lord of Sirius (the Mighty Star);
PICKTHAL: And that He it is Who is the Lord of Sirius;
SHAKIR: And that He is the Lord of the Sirius; [Q 053.049]
Manat’s sacred black stone was located in a sanctuary in Qudayd, between Madinah (formerly Yathrib) and Makkah. Ali demolished her temple, took all her treasures and took them to Muhammad, including two swords which were presented to Manat by al-Harith ibn Abi-Shamir al-Ghaassan, the king of Ghassan. These swords were called Mikhdam and Rasub. Muhammad gave these two swords to Ali.
To this day, Arabs believe in the power of Manat, and they still shave themselves at the end of hajj before attending her pilgrimage site. To be continued...
written by Yibel , August 08, 2011
The third goddess was Al-Uzza, the goddess of sacrifice a thighbon-shaped stone situated in a valley in Nakhlat called Hurad in a sacred grove of three trees ( a place called al-Ghabghab) to the right of the road from Mecca to al-Iraq, above Dhat-Irq. Zilim built a house over her calling it Buss. People received divine messages there and named their children Abd-al-Uzza (slave or servant of al-Uzza). She was the greatest among the Quraysh. They used to seek her favors through sacrifice. Her star was the planet Venus, known as the morning star (known to the Babylonians as Ishtar). The Arabs were known to sacrifice humans there. According to Arabic tradition, a son of al-Harith was offered as a sacrifice to al-Uzza. Ten years later, al-Harith took his revenge and slew his Lakhmid enemy in a battle in the district of Qinnasrin, known as the "Day of Halimah.” Before the battle Halimah, the daughter of al-Harith, perfumed with her own hands the hundred Ghassanid champions ready for death and clad them in shrouds of white linen in addition to coats of mail (a suicide squad?) Arabs also sacrificed camels, sheep and cattle to al-Uzza and divided the meat among those present at the ceremony. The Quraysh (Muhammad’s tribe) venerated al-Uzza above all other idols and Muhammad is said to have offered a sacrifice, a white sheep, to al-Uzza when he was trying to gain favor with the Quraysh. Muslims still sacrifice cattle and sheep at the end of Ramadan for their feast of Eid.
Al-Uzza is also mentioned in the Bible, II Kings chapter 21: King Manasseh, who did evil in the sight of YHVH, set up a grove to Uzza and made his sons pass through the fire to Malik/Moloch/Molech, the keeper of hell (also known as Milcom, the abomination of the Ammonites). Manasseh also set up a graven image of this grove in the House of YHVH in Jerusalem, presumably for sacrifices. To be continued...
Al-Uzza is also mentioned in the Bible, II Kings chapter 21: King Manasseh, who did evil in the sight of YHVH, set up a grove to Uzza and made his sons pass through the fire to Malik/Moloch/Molech, the keeper of hell (also known as Milcom, the abomination of the Ammonites). Manasseh also set up a graven image of this grove in the House of YHVH in Jerusalem, presumably for sacrifices. To be continued...
written by Yibel , August 08, 2011
All three goddesses were originally referred to in the Qur'an as the daughters (Satanic verses, 53:19-20) of Allah:
Have you considered Allat and al-'Uzza
And Manat, the third, the other?
Those are the swans exalted;
Their intercession is expected;
Their likes are not neglected.
After Muhammad was driven out of Makkah, he claimed that all Prophets were, at times, inspired by the Satan and he cancelled those verses from the Qur'an and changed them to read:
Al-Ah is God, the Lord of the galaxies (Alpha Sirius, the brightest star visible from earth)-53:49
YUSUFALI: That He is the Lord of Sirius (the Mighty Star);
PICKTHAL: And that He it is Who is the Lord of Sirius;
SHAKIR: And that He is the Lord of the Sirius; [Q 53:49]
Al-Ah (Sin) and his daughter Al-lat were connected with the crescent moon, Al-Uzza with the planet Venus and Manat (Ma’at) with the star Sirius. The moon-god Sin of the Assyrians whose temple stood in Haran (currently in Turkey) had for his symbols a crescent moon and a star, or a bull with crescent-shaped horns and three swans (or cranes). The Muslims considered the place in Haran where Sin's great temple stood to be sacred and built a Great Mosque there. See wikipedia: Great Mosque at Haran.
Have you considered Allat and al-'Uzza
And Manat, the third, the other?
Those are the swans exalted;
Their intercession is expected;
Their likes are not neglected.
After Muhammad was driven out of Makkah, he claimed that all Prophets were, at times, inspired by the Satan and he cancelled those verses from the Qur'an and changed them to read:
Al-Ah is God, the Lord of the galaxies (Alpha Sirius, the brightest star visible from earth)-53:49
YUSUFALI: That He is the Lord of Sirius (the Mighty Star);
PICKTHAL: And that He it is Who is the Lord of Sirius;
SHAKIR: And that He is the Lord of the Sirius; [Q 53:49]
Al-Ah (Sin) and his daughter Al-lat were connected with the crescent moon, Al-Uzza with the planet Venus and Manat (Ma’at) with the star Sirius. The moon-god Sin of the Assyrians whose temple stood in Haran (currently in Turkey) had for his symbols a crescent moon and a star, or a bull with crescent-shaped horns and three swans (or cranes). The Muslims considered the place in Haran where Sin's great temple stood to be sacred and built a Great Mosque there. See wikipedia: Great Mosque at Haran.
written by Archpagan , August 09, 2011
Perhaps you have not read Da Vinci Code. It's a wonderful work in literary technique and contents. It is archaeology described in the format of a crime-thriller. So much so that nobody will get bored in reading the 500-page book.
written by duh_swami , August 09, 2011
The Codes author leaned on the book,'Holy Blood, Holy Grail'...A priest had discovered a treasure in a old church he was in charge of...The BBC sent some reporters to southern France church to do a twenty minute documentary, on the treasure...Other things they discovered while doing this, perked their curiosity which launched them into a twenty year research project that took them to many of Europe's historical archives, and eventually resulted in the book Holy blood, Holy Grail...It is very interesting and well worth the read...If you liked the Da Vinci Code, you will also like the book...They do not cancel each other out, they augment...There was also a sequel book, but I didn't read that one...I don't know if it is in print or not, but you could find out on Amazon or some other book dealer...
written by Cerebrum123 , August 09, 2011
I never said that the Da Vinci Code wasn't an interesting book ,but is still just a fiction book designed to look like it's based on real history ,and real archaeological finds. It's kind of like trying to claim that the movie Raiders of the Lost Ark really happened. Nobody expects to find the real Ark of the Covenant by watching that movie ,and following what they did. There is a sequel to The Da Vinci Code which I think Duh is trying to refer to here is Angels and Demons. I haven't read either or seen the movies. I may do so if I get the chance ,but that hasn't happened yet.
written by duh_swami , August 09, 2011
I am not talking about a sequel to the D code...The sequel to HBHG is 'Messianic legacy'...The HBHG is interesting but not conclusive...It does list detailed history...It's worth reading if anyone agree's with it or not...
written by Cerebrum123 , August 09, 2011
Sorry I was mistaken. I wasn't entirely sure on this ,that's why I put that I thought you were referring to the sequel of Da Vinci Code. Perhaps if I can find a free version of it I will see what it has to say. There are a lot of interesting books and movies that I may not necessarily agree with ,but that doesn't mean I just reject them our of hand. I disagree highly with evolution ,but I still would like to see Rise of the Planet of the Apes. I also highly disagree with the philosophy of H.G. Wells (He was a staunch eugenicist btw) ,but his book The Time Machine was very good.
written by Oops , August 10, 2011
Catholics did it, Protestants did it, and now Latter day saints are exposed: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...erges.html
written by Brown Superman , August 10, 2011
Christians like you will first say that people like Archpagan, Duh_swami, Chanakya and myself have not read the bible. The following statment will be "have limited knowledge of the bible" or "have not understood the bible" or something in that flavour.
How do you know that Da Vinci code is purely a fictional stuff? Was that your chuch finding or ruling to maintain the past beliefs? Does the author have to expose all his research work in addition to the interesting way he had presented? The muslims too like to keep their "traditional" beliefs and close both eyes to new discoveries, especially when the latest finds contradict what they have been practising and preaching. You can see Reed's and Malem's comments.
Come on, the very fact that there exists Catholics and Protestants go to show that either one or both are wrong. Jehovah's Witnesses swear there never existed any cross for Jesus' crucificaton. First you christians got to agree which christianity is the right one instead of each claiming to be the one.
More often than not, these christians are bound by blind faith. They do not check issues with history but by their bible and say that that's the truth. How different is that from muslims who swear the koran to be the book of truths? Even if the bible was written by 10 (or even a 100), does it mean they could be no liars for their purposes? Even history had been written to suit the writers or the government/rulers in power. Like the hadiths written more than a hundred years after Mo' existed, Part of the New Testament was also written not during Jesus' time or soon after. Try passing a simple message through 100 heads (ears to mouth and ears to mouth) and see how distorted the message gets back and that too is within a day of two. Imagine what would happen a short 50 years.
Take a trail to Old Sri Nagar in Kashmir and you may find the grave of Jesus there and that of his mother, Mary, in Pakistan. May be he did not ascend to heaven but moved East. For Good Fridays, Filipinoes do celebrate the festival by hanging someone on the cross just the same but there is no death nor ascension. So why did Jesus (if that's his name) die for the same nailings on the same spots as the Filipino ?
How do you know that Da Vinci code is purely a fictional stuff? Was that your chuch finding or ruling to maintain the past beliefs? Does the author have to expose all his research work in addition to the interesting way he had presented? The muslims too like to keep their "traditional" beliefs and close both eyes to new discoveries, especially when the latest finds contradict what they have been practising and preaching. You can see Reed's and Malem's comments.
Come on, the very fact that there exists Catholics and Protestants go to show that either one or both are wrong. Jehovah's Witnesses swear there never existed any cross for Jesus' crucificaton. First you christians got to agree which christianity is the right one instead of each claiming to be the one.
More often than not, these christians are bound by blind faith. They do not check issues with history but by their bible and say that that's the truth. How different is that from muslims who swear the koran to be the book of truths? Even if the bible was written by 10 (or even a 100), does it mean they could be no liars for their purposes? Even history had been written to suit the writers or the government/rulers in power. Like the hadiths written more than a hundred years after Mo' existed, Part of the New Testament was also written not during Jesus' time or soon after. Try passing a simple message through 100 heads (ears to mouth and ears to mouth) and see how distorted the message gets back and that too is within a day of two. Imagine what would happen a short 50 years.
Take a trail to Old Sri Nagar in Kashmir and you may find the grave of Jesus there and that of his mother, Mary, in Pakistan. May be he did not ascend to heaven but moved East. For Good Fridays, Filipinoes do celebrate the festival by hanging someone on the cross just the same but there is no death nor ascension. So why did Jesus (if that's his name) die for the same nailings on the same spots as the Filipino ?
written by duh_swami , August 11, 2011
The numbers just don't add up...If you add up the life spans of all the cast of characters listed in the Bible from Adam to Noah, it is 8125 years...We already know that Jesus was born, 2011 years ago...This would mean that Noah was alive for ten years after Jesus was born, if the 10,000 year old earth theory is correct...Then there is the problem of fossils...Mostly about ape fossils and early human like fossils that have been collected and categorized by type and era...
The Bible covers the time from creation till modern times...The only mention in the Bible about human like apes or other creatures is one remark about Nephilim which means giants...But just what was meant by giants is unknown...Other than that, these early apes and humanoids had to co-exist with modern humans if the 10,000 year rule is observed...Science has fossils of numerous ape types of vastly different ages...If they all existed together in one short time span, it would have been nearly impossible for early Bible writers not to know about them, and comment...
The Bible covers the time from creation till modern times...The only mention in the Bible about human like apes or other creatures is one remark about Nephilim which means giants...But just what was meant by giants is unknown...Other than that, these early apes and humanoids had to co-exist with modern humans if the 10,000 year rule is observed...Science has fossils of numerous ape types of vastly different ages...If they all existed together in one short time span, it would have been nearly impossible for early Bible writers not to know about them, and comment...
written by Cerebrum123 , August 11, 2011
The only explanation I can come up with for your age of the earth is that you have added the ages of each person death rather than when the child mentioned was born.Biblical chronology goes something like this Creation approximately 4000 B.C ,Noah's Flood 2304 B.C. ,Jesus 1 A.D. Remember that these are approximate dates based on the Biblical geneaologies and could be off by several years. They have never found any "ape men" fossils ever. Neanderthals were 100% human ,they just had different features that are mostly recognized now. Whenever they find these so called "missing links" they are always either obviously ape or obviously human. In fact a lot of these "missing links" were hoaxes or exaggerations.
written by Machmoed , August 12, 2011
Neanderthals were 100% human ,they just had different features that are mostly recognized now.
A big lie, i'am sorry. Neanderthals are a different kind of species. We still have DNA of the Neanderthals in us. Both species lived together and mixed together. In the end our species could cooperate better with eachother than Neanderthals could. Eventually they had to go as a specie. Survival of the fittest doesn't mean the strongest in terms of musclepower but rather brainpower or the capability to act as a bigger system. This is what makes our species interresting. Besides, evolution itself is a natural law (Gods law) and doesn't exclude a creator whatsoever. Evolution is a fact and i'm not talking about the theory of Darwin wich is just a tiny part of what we know today.
We wouldn't be who we are without the Neanderthals, the apes and all living things including other kind of human-like species like they found in Indonesia (1 meter high kind of humans/dwarfs). We all are connected somehow.
A big lie, i'am sorry. Neanderthals are a different kind of species. We still have DNA of the Neanderthals in us. Both species lived together and mixed together. In the end our species could cooperate better with eachother than Neanderthals could. Eventually they had to go as a specie. Survival of the fittest doesn't mean the strongest in terms of musclepower but rather brainpower or the capability to act as a bigger system. This is what makes our species interresting. Besides, evolution itself is a natural law (Gods law) and doesn't exclude a creator whatsoever. Evolution is a fact and i'm not talking about the theory of Darwin wich is just a tiny part of what we know today.
We wouldn't be who we are without the Neanderthals, the apes and all living things including other kind of human-like species like they found in Indonesia (1 meter high kind of humans/dwarfs). We all are connected somehow.
written by duh_swami , August 12, 2011
'The only explanation I can come up with for your age of the earth is that you have added the ages of each person death rather than when the child mentioned was born'.
Your explanation is not good enough...I listed their ages when they died...They did not all live at the same time but one after the other...I also pointed out that there were numerous species of
Ape like semi humans from small ones to large ones...This should mean according to logic, that they were all over the place if they all existed in a short period of time and overlapped humans...Surely Adam would have known about them since he gave them their names...But there is no mention at all...And none of these creatures would be friendly, and most likely would attack humans...The Bible is silent about this...No information, no warnings, nothing...It's almost as if these ape like creatures didn't exist in human Bible history...Did Noah load these creatures on the ark as well? There are at least 14 different species of homo-this and homo-that, not counting the hundreds of varieties not homo...Were they all on the ark? Where are they today?
I think it's clear that the Bible writers didn't know of these animals, so they are not mentioned...But we know about them now, and we know the reason the Bible does not mention them is that they were all long gone for hundreds of thousand, and millions of years before Adam made his appearance...It is beyond reason and logic to believe Adam didn't know about these creatures, especially since he supposedly named them...
But there is nothing...And now you know why...
Your explanation is not good enough...I listed their ages when they died...They did not all live at the same time but one after the other...I also pointed out that there were numerous species of
Ape like semi humans from small ones to large ones...This should mean according to logic, that they were all over the place if they all existed in a short period of time and overlapped humans...Surely Adam would have known about them since he gave them their names...But there is no mention at all...And none of these creatures would be friendly, and most likely would attack humans...The Bible is silent about this...No information, no warnings, nothing...It's almost as if these ape like creatures didn't exist in human Bible history...Did Noah load these creatures on the ark as well? There are at least 14 different species of homo-this and homo-that, not counting the hundreds of varieties not homo...Were they all on the ark? Where are they today?
I think it's clear that the Bible writers didn't know of these animals, so they are not mentioned...But we know about them now, and we know the reason the Bible does not mention them is that they were all long gone for hundreds of thousand, and millions of years before Adam made his appearance...It is beyond reason and logic to believe Adam didn't know about these creatures, especially since he supposedly named them...
But there is nothing...And now you know why...
written by Cerebrum123 , August 12, 2011
I have never spoken out against natural selection or adaptations within a certain kind ,but only Darwinian evolution which involves monkeys to men. Darwinian evolution is NOT a fact ,and Neanderthals were 100% human. There have never been any "subhumans" you're either a human or an animal ,there is no in between ,and there is no fossil evidence of intermediates either. All of the humans and apes that have been called intermediates have been either 100% ape or 100% man. We have 0 intermediate fossils of any evolutionary changes on the scale of Darwinian evolution. The other "evolution" is called adaptation ,and runs in the exact opposite direction that Darwinian evolution runs.
@ Duh
You just admitted to my explanation of your date for the age of the earth. A great deal of the first group of humans all lived together as they lived a VERY long time. None of them died right after procreating. Also you are confusing species with kinds. Kinds through adaptation turn into a variety of species.Take the dog for example. There would have been only one pair of dogs on the ark that were most likely very similar to wolves. As selective breeding began we started to see a great deal of new dog species come into being. The problem is now that they have lost so much of their original genetic information they have more genetic problems.All of these different dog species today originally existed as a single kind.This same kind of downward progression has happened with other animals too. This results in the enormous amounts of species that are see today. As for these animals being violent ,these and all other animals were vegetarians in the beginning. Only after the flood when food was scarce did they start becoming carnivores and omnivores. They have even found t-rex fossils with chlorophyll in their teeth. Not only that ,but animals that are mostly carnivores can survive on a vegetarian diet when necessary. Certain vegetarians lately have even shown in rare cases a thirst for blood. One of these animals was a sheep. This sheep saw a bird in the field rammed it killed it then ate it. Another example is a panda bear that started killing and eating sheep. The Bible does mention dinosaurs which are supposed to be millions of years older than your supposed ape like human ancestors. One specific mention is under the name Behemoth ,another is called Leviathan. The word "dinosaur" is a recent invention ,and people had a different name for them in the past ,this name was dragon in a variety of cultures.
@ Duh
You just admitted to my explanation of your date for the age of the earth. A great deal of the first group of humans all lived together as they lived a VERY long time. None of them died right after procreating. Also you are confusing species with kinds. Kinds through adaptation turn into a variety of species.Take the dog for example. There would have been only one pair of dogs on the ark that were most likely very similar to wolves. As selective breeding began we started to see a great deal of new dog species come into being. The problem is now that they have lost so much of their original genetic information they have more genetic problems.All of these different dog species today originally existed as a single kind.This same kind of downward progression has happened with other animals too. This results in the enormous amounts of species that are see today. As for these animals being violent ,these and all other animals were vegetarians in the beginning. Only after the flood when food was scarce did they start becoming carnivores and omnivores. They have even found t-rex fossils with chlorophyll in their teeth. Not only that ,but animals that are mostly carnivores can survive on a vegetarian diet when necessary. Certain vegetarians lately have even shown in rare cases a thirst for blood. One of these animals was a sheep. This sheep saw a bird in the field rammed it killed it then ate it. Another example is a panda bear that started killing and eating sheep. The Bible does mention dinosaurs which are supposed to be millions of years older than your supposed ape like human ancestors. One specific mention is under the name Behemoth ,another is called Leviathan. The word "dinosaur" is a recent invention ,and people had a different name for them in the past ,this name was dragon in a variety of cultures.
written by duh_swami , August 12, 2011
Go to wickipedia and read up on human evolution, species, types, kinds, sorts and varieties of prehistoric animals and when they lived...The Bible fails to identify any of them even though Adam named them...And dragons...We still have prehistoric monsters, crocodiles, alligators, very large lizards, snakes and spiders...There is nothing unusual about that...Your examples just plain don't hold up, every explanation is weak...I stopped, or almost stopped posting to you about this because there is no point in it...You can just believe any fairy tales you want, and don't let any nasty facts or reality in...Please don't respond...Every time I bother to read your posts it's just the same old song and denials...
written by duh_swami , August 12, 2011
How many dragons were on Noahs ark and where are they now?
written by Dwito , August 12, 2011
Only dragons! what about snow bear and desert lions as neighbours? or deer and tiger? Penguins and wolfs? ooopssss! dinosaurs were not alive then! Thanks God!
written by Machmoed , August 13, 2011
Darwinian evolution is NOT a fact ,and Neanderthals were 100% human.
I said evolution is a fact, not darwinian evolution. Like i said we are now much further that darwinian evolution. He just started the thinking direction but sure it wasn't complete at that time and still we are in search for the whole. If Neanderthals were 100% human, they would been called humans but instead they are called Neanderthals.
Is Allah the same as God of the Bible...there is only one God but are these the same entities? I bet you would say No. This is exactly the same with humans and Neanderthals without saying that one is better than the other or whatever. They are just different.
This discussion about creationism vs evolutionism is actually boring. Creation and evolution might go hand in hand and because there was nothing first, everything is created and since then evolution (change/motion) started withit. Life=change/motion=evolution.
I said evolution is a fact, not darwinian evolution. Like i said we are now much further that darwinian evolution. He just started the thinking direction but sure it wasn't complete at that time and still we are in search for the whole. If Neanderthals were 100% human, they would been called humans but instead they are called Neanderthals.
Is Allah the same as God of the Bible...there is only one God but are these the same entities? I bet you would say No. This is exactly the same with humans and Neanderthals without saying that one is better than the other or whatever. They are just different.
This discussion about creationism vs evolutionism is actually boring. Creation and evolution might go hand in hand and because there was nothing first, everything is created and since then evolution (change/motion) started withit. Life=change/motion=evolution.
written by HappyBritishMuslim , August 13, 2011
All this logic balls!! Hahaha
We muslims are peace with ourselves. Its because we have been anticipating the end of time. The day of judgement. Were all your silly ignorant faces will drop and say 'oh! :/'
Its about being a better you! Your grave! Your soul! Your sins! Your choice!
So a few misled individuals from all parties think corruption, bigotry and dishonesty will make them powerful. Who are they trying to overcome??
Even our so called terrorist fear God. They need better role models tho! Bin laden just dont cut it!
Tonight the moon hovers directly over the Holy Kaaba, happens quite often i heard.
Last week another church was turned into luxury apartments! At fist it was Jesus this Christ that but now its dying! ... No muslim urged for this to happen, infact my area would look rather splendid with a spectacular church erected. But u guys just dont care. More bothered about gettin your giro on time so can have a gud sesh down at dodgy daves!
Now that is a life to hate. Even the story has a pong to it. I asked a athiest friend 'what good are you to this world, what can you offer?' his reply, nothing.. I live to rott and eventualy die.
Did Bob Marley, Elvis, Tupac and Biggie die for nothing. Even they had a cause, Peace and love through music. But were all assasinated for same reason! BCoz there not healthy for an organised corrupt society! Wake up and smell the stale beer folks, eggs just aint gna do it this mornin, barack will make history, but il stil live a prosperpous life here in sunny Lancashire coz i care about life!!!
Iv worked hard, im 23, have a degree and a job. My father died when i was 14. Life would have been shit if i didnt keep myself in gear.
My religion gave me the strength and the confidence.
If you have pulled faces during this post then atleast i know you have read it. I rather enjoy a good heated debate.
We muslims are peace with ourselves. Its because we have been anticipating the end of time. The day of judgement. Were all your silly ignorant faces will drop and say 'oh! :/'
Its about being a better you! Your grave! Your soul! Your sins! Your choice!
So a few misled individuals from all parties think corruption, bigotry and dishonesty will make them powerful. Who are they trying to overcome??
Even our so called terrorist fear God. They need better role models tho! Bin laden just dont cut it!
Tonight the moon hovers directly over the Holy Kaaba, happens quite often i heard.
Last week another church was turned into luxury apartments! At fist it was Jesus this Christ that but now its dying! ... No muslim urged for this to happen, infact my area would look rather splendid with a spectacular church erected. But u guys just dont care. More bothered about gettin your giro on time so can have a gud sesh down at dodgy daves!
Now that is a life to hate. Even the story has a pong to it. I asked a athiest friend 'what good are you to this world, what can you offer?' his reply, nothing.. I live to rott and eventualy die.
Did Bob Marley, Elvis, Tupac and Biggie die for nothing. Even they had a cause, Peace and love through music. But were all assasinated for same reason! BCoz there not healthy for an organised corrupt society! Wake up and smell the stale beer folks, eggs just aint gna do it this mornin, barack will make history, but il stil live a prosperpous life here in sunny Lancashire coz i care about life!!!
Iv worked hard, im 23, have a degree and a job. My father died when i was 14. Life would have been shit if i didnt keep myself in gear.
My religion gave me the strength and the confidence.
If you have pulled faces during this post then atleast i know you have read it. I rather enjoy a good heated debate.
written by Machmoed , August 14, 2011
Iv worked hard, im 23, have a degree and a job. My father died when i was 14. Life would have been shit if i didnt keep myself in gear.
My religion gave me the strength and the confidence.
Very good for you! Be happy indeed. But why the nonsense of day of judgement as if you know what it means. Because you're were telling about your father, it seems to be a emotional act.
You wrote: Tonight the moon hovers directly over the Holy Kaaba, happens quite often i heard.
What is this kind of nonsense? You don't mean that, do you?
Do you have any understanding of astronomy?
What's holy about a pagan origin cube? Don't commit shirk, my friend. I could say, the real ka'ba is in your heart and the center of that is your masjid al haraam. It's there where you can pray and be with your God, Allah. It's cheaper, purer, wiser etc.
Moon hovers directly about a cube wich has been vanished by Allah himself and every time they build that idol temple. The black stone wasn't in/at/ka'ba for centuries and it is broken a long time ago. A cupper ring holds it togeather. How devine!
In the 8th and even 9th century, many, many mosques had the qibla to jaruzalem (alQuds) in stead of Mecca.
Your analysis crumbles. You have little knowledge of the pre- and early islam and think that what you believe now, is what they believed in the time of Muhammad. How foolish!
A God/Allah might exist but don't tell me He has chose a way of stupidity to inform and instruct his creatures through prophets and angels and still didn't succeed. It's making him a fool and a child and that's why some believers believe he made us in his own image. Religion is an instrument that works for a lot of people, but it is not what it's about. It should not be an objective of life/in life. That would be SHIRK!
My religion gave me the strength and the confidence.
Very good for you! Be happy indeed. But why the nonsense of day of judgement as if you know what it means. Because you're were telling about your father, it seems to be a emotional act.
You wrote: Tonight the moon hovers directly over the Holy Kaaba, happens quite often i heard.
What is this kind of nonsense? You don't mean that, do you?
Do you have any understanding of astronomy?
What's holy about a pagan origin cube? Don't commit shirk, my friend. I could say, the real ka'ba is in your heart and the center of that is your masjid al haraam. It's there where you can pray and be with your God, Allah. It's cheaper, purer, wiser etc.
Moon hovers directly about a cube wich has been vanished by Allah himself and every time they build that idol temple. The black stone wasn't in/at/ka'ba for centuries and it is broken a long time ago. A cupper ring holds it togeather. How devine!
In the 8th and even 9th century, many, many mosques had the qibla to jaruzalem (alQuds) in stead of Mecca.
Your analysis crumbles. You have little knowledge of the pre- and early islam and think that what you believe now, is what they believed in the time of Muhammad. How foolish!
A God/Allah might exist but don't tell me He has chose a way of stupidity to inform and instruct his creatures through prophets and angels and still didn't succeed. It's making him a fool and a child and that's why some believers believe he made us in his own image. Religion is an instrument that works for a lot of people, but it is not what it's about. It should not be an objective of life/in life. That would be SHIRK!
written by duh_swami , August 14, 2011
'Don't worry, be Happy'...
When I was 23, I thought I knew everything...When I turned 24, I began to have doubts, when I turned 25 I realized I didn't know everything, when I turned 26, I realized I actually knew nothing, when I turned 27, I realized that everything I thought I knew was wrong, when I turned 28, I looked for what was right, when I turned 29, I found it...when I turned 30, I understood it, when I turned 31, I applied it, when I turned 32, people called me 'Messiah', when I turned 33, I started my ministry...Later the selfish killed me because I was right...The Quran written by people ignorant of my true history and legacy, call me Isa the Prophet, but I am not prophet, I am savior...It took me 33 years
to get this position, I had to go through a lot, tortured, crown of thorns, crucified, given vinegar to drink, and stabbed with a spear...And I did it all for you Happy, and you show your gratitude
by worshipping that faker Allah...But I forgive you, you can't help it...But by the time you are 30, you will understand it too, and apostate yourself from fraud...If you could do it sooner, I and my Father would appreciate it...
written by Demsci , August 14, 2011
@HappyBritishMuslim.
It is good that you enjoy a good healthy debate. But Islam is for censorship when Islam is discussed.
And Islam has the death-for-apostasy-law. And it means that you are in a religion, a law-system, together with all sorts of people, among them many simple-minded, morally low, oppressing people. It is those co-religionists that tar the reputation of Muslims like you, not the Westerners who observe Muslims and report about them.
And you say that your religion gives you strength? Well, it serves as a crutch, or drugs then for you. But is it true? I mean, can't you admit that, OK, it does not matter if it is a true religion or not, we Muslims just remain in it, because:
"it gives us strength", "it makes us feel good", "it eases our fears about the afterlife", "it gives us wonderful cohesion with our loved ones and fellows". "This is why we prefer Islam over what the other humans are following". BUT, we don't care if it is true, we just gamble on something with very scarce proof, if any.
It is good that you enjoy a good healthy debate. But Islam is for censorship when Islam is discussed.
And Islam has the death-for-apostasy-law. And it means that you are in a religion, a law-system, together with all sorts of people, among them many simple-minded, morally low, oppressing people. It is those co-religionists that tar the reputation of Muslims like you, not the Westerners who observe Muslims and report about them.
And you say that your religion gives you strength? Well, it serves as a crutch, or drugs then for you. But is it true? I mean, can't you admit that, OK, it does not matter if it is a true religion or not, we Muslims just remain in it, because:
"it gives us strength", "it makes us feel good", "it eases our fears about the afterlife", "it gives us wonderful cohesion with our loved ones and fellows". "This is why we prefer Islam over what the other humans are following". BUT, we don't care if it is true, we just gamble on something with very scarce proof, if any.
written by Reed Wilson. , August 14, 2011
To Demsci. "And Islam has the death-for-apostasy-law."
"and whoever among you turns renegade and dies as a disbeliever, then their deeds are wasted in this world and in the Hereafter; and they are the people of hell; they will remain in it forever." (2:217)
"Indeed those who believe, then disbelieve and then again believe, then again disbelieve, and go further in their disbelief – Allah will never forgive them, nor ever guide them to the path." (4:137)
"O believers, any one of you who turns back on his faith that God could verily bring another people whom He would love as they would love Him, gentle with believers, unbending with infidels, who would strive in the way of God, unafraid of blame by any slanderer. Such is the favor of God which He bestows on whomsoever He will. God is infinite and all-knowing." (5:54)
There are altogether 3 above verses in Quran about apostasy. Just warnings. No killing. It is forgivable also. How can you forgive after killing?
Demsci please study the above verses in context and pls do tell me if I am not clear.
"and whoever among you turns renegade and dies as a disbeliever, then their deeds are wasted in this world and in the Hereafter; and they are the people of hell; they will remain in it forever." (2:217)
"Indeed those who believe, then disbelieve and then again believe, then again disbelieve, and go further in their disbelief – Allah will never forgive them, nor ever guide them to the path." (4:137)
"O believers, any one of you who turns back on his faith that God could verily bring another people whom He would love as they would love Him, gentle with believers, unbending with infidels, who would strive in the way of God, unafraid of blame by any slanderer. Such is the favor of God which He bestows on whomsoever He will. God is infinite and all-knowing." (5:54)
There are altogether 3 above verses in Quran about apostasy. Just warnings. No killing. It is forgivable also. How can you forgive after killing?
Demsci please study the above verses in context and pls do tell me if I am not clear.
written by Kafirwala , August 14, 2011
To Reed:
"Indeed those who believe, then disbelieve and then again believe, then again disbelieve, and go further in their disbelief – Allah will never forgive them, nor ever guide them to the path." (4:137)
Don't you think the second part of the above verse is sheer stupidity? If Allah had guided them to the path in the first instance, they would not have wavered in their belief. What is the point in guiding them to the path, if they are steadfast in their beliefs? Is it not superfluous? Why Allah is uttering such non- sense? Allah is not doing anything properly and in an intelligent way. Then he is finding fault with the people, particularly the infidels and flexes his muscle. Why? Is there any need for it? Not only he is wicked, he is non- sensical to the core too.
"Indeed those who believe, then disbelieve and then again believe, then again disbelieve, and go further in their disbelief – Allah will never forgive them, nor ever guide them to the path." (4:137)
Don't you think the second part of the above verse is sheer stupidity? If Allah had guided them to the path in the first instance, they would not have wavered in their belief. What is the point in guiding them to the path, if they are steadfast in their beliefs? Is it not superfluous? Why Allah is uttering such non- sense? Allah is not doing anything properly and in an intelligent way. Then he is finding fault with the people, particularly the infidels and flexes his muscle. Why? Is there any need for it? Not only he is wicked, he is non- sensical to the core too.
written by Reed Wilson , August 16, 2011
Kafirwala. "If Allah had guided them to the path in the first instance, they would not have wavered in their belief".
He will guide those who seek guidance. Those who reject the message of God, will deprive themselves of guidance.
So you agree "There are altogether 3 above verses in Quran about apostasy. Just warnings. No killing. It is forgivable also. How can you forgive after killing? Very smart!!
He will guide those who seek guidance. Those who reject the message of God, will deprive themselves of guidance.
So you agree "There are altogether 3 above verses in Quran about apostasy. Just warnings. No killing. It is forgivable also. How can you forgive after killing? Very smart!!
written by duh_swami , August 16, 2011
He will guide those who seek guidance.
So will Satan...He wrote the manual on guidance, it is called Quran...
So will Satan...He wrote the manual on guidance, it is called Quran...
written by Cerebrum123 , August 16, 2011
When I say Darwinian evolution I mean things like an ape turning into a man through millions of years of mutations and random processes and the like. Mutations do not increase the genetic information in a living being which is needed for this type of evolution. Mutations either lose the information in DNA or it stays the same. I am not against adaptation and natural selection. The latter has been observed and tested ,the former cannot be tested or observed ,and by what we have observed about natural selection makes it the exact opposite of what is necessary for what some people call macro-evolution. I had hoped using the term Darwinian evolution would help clear things up since I don't hear the word macro-evolution a lot. To clear things up I will use the term macro-evolution from now on.
written by Dwito , August 16, 2011
Just warnings. No killing. It is forgivable.
Then why was the warning? And if not killings, what is it for?
Then why was the warning? And if not killings, what is it for?
written by Mozlem , August 16, 2011
Cerebrum you consume bandwidth on this site and really you are sabotaging the purpose why all come to this forum. yes we all know that you are master of bible but Phuuuleeeze keep yourself from converting everyone to Christianity. There are many other sites where you can take your shop and run it there. It is bit like trying to holdup/rob a gun shop. You will end up being shot. Really you are a sad distraction who does not engage in any rational discussion other then try to create noise and distraction. This is an Islamic discussion forum so let’s keep the signal high and noise level low.
written by Mozlem , August 16, 2011
"Mutations either lose the information in DNA or it stays the same"
Cerebrum do you have BSE? Good otherwise DNA can even be modified within a person’s life span. You just dribble bile without having an iota of knowledge about science, (physics, chemistry, biology and astronomy). Don’t get me wrong but did you go to college or were you a science student. What you write is scientific miracles which are an oxymoron as miracle can never be scientific.
And you don’t give up as you think you are some sort of internet educated delusional supremacist.
Do yourself a favour by cross checking what you communicate. Fairy tales is enough but science is not your domain. I know all people here know about you but a fool’s best secret is that he keeps his mouth shut. Once he opens it everyone comes to know his foolishness.
Cerebrum do you have BSE? Good otherwise DNA can even be modified within a person’s life span. You just dribble bile without having an iota of knowledge about science, (physics, chemistry, biology and astronomy). Don’t get me wrong but did you go to college or were you a science student. What you write is scientific miracles which are an oxymoron as miracle can never be scientific.
And you don’t give up as you think you are some sort of internet educated delusional supremacist.
Do yourself a favour by cross checking what you communicate. Fairy tales is enough but science is not your domain. I know all people here know about you but a fool’s best secret is that he keeps his mouth shut. Once he opens it everyone comes to know his foolishness.
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