Some liberal Muslims think that pedophilia in Islam originates from unrealible or false hadiths, and discarding hadith and sticking to the Quran, the Muslim holy book, would solve the problem. But pedophilia, in fact, is an Allah-sanctioned divine institution is Islam, established by the Quran (65:4). To rid Islam of pedophilia, Muslims have to discard the Quran first.
Indonesia’s leading Sufi Islamic organization, Nahdlatul Ulama (NU), whose ex-leader was Abdurrahman Wahid, aka Gus Dur, served as Indonesia’s president from 1999 to 2001, issued a fatwa approving child marriage on the occasion of its 32nd Congress in late march, because 'sacred Islamic verses or regulations had not stipulated a minimum age'. The fatwa said: "They can get married at any age, even girls who haven’t started menstruating… And they can have intimate relationships and intercourse, as long as they are able.”
The Associated Press reported: "Some of Yemen's most influential Islamic leaders, including one the U.S. says mentored Osama bin Laden, have declared supporters of a ban on child brides to be apostates", in protest to a proposal by the government to ban marriage of underage girls.
Meanwhile, on Sunday March 20, thousands of Yemeni women, clad in head-to-toe Islamic veils, demonstrated outside the parliament, opposing the proposed legislation. They carried banners proclaiming "don’t ban what Allah made permissible” or "stop violating Islamic Sharia law in the name of rights and freedoms”.
Houriya Mashhour, deputy director of Yemen's Women National Committee, could only say this to support the legislation: “It is unreasonable to marry our daughters at the age of eight or nine. This is a serious problem.”
She could only appeal to “reason”, not to “Islam”, to support the proposed child-marriage ban.
While Islamic clerics, both fundamentalist and moderate Sufi, as well as Muslim women supported child-marriage and pedophilia in Islam proudly and loudly in Yemen and Indonesia, without raising condemnation from any quarter whatsoever, Tarek Fatah, a self-proclaimed “moderate”, “liberal” and “hardened secular” Muslim, blasted Wafa Sultan, a ex-Muslim critic of Islam, for mentioning, during a debate with Dr. Daniel Pipes in Toronto, the fact on the basis of which Muslim societies practice and support pedophilia. And that fact is: Muhammad was a child-molester, because he, aged 54, consummated his marriage to Aisha, after waiting three years, when she turned 9.
His other complaints against Sultan were: She said, Muhammad was a ‘Jew-killer’; and there is no such thing as ‘moderate Islam’.
The first two facts, overwhelmingly accepted by Muslims as historical truth, come from the sacred Islamic texts: the Quran, prophetic tradition (hadith) and pious prophetic biographies (sira). The third claim was made, proudly, by Turkey’s Muslim Prime Minister, Erdogan, in 2007, and Muslims generally subscribe to it.
The fact that Muhammad consummated his marriage to Aisha, when she was 9, is overwhelmingly accepted in Islamic societies even today. The Yemen protests and Indonesian fatwa make it clear.
Despite calling himself a “hardened secular” Muslim, Fatah won’t allow you to criticize Islam or its founder, even on the basis of what Muslim societies overwhelmingly believe as Islam’s “historical” truth. Of course, secular Muslims like Fatah would no problem when mentioned the same facts in front of Muslim audience to defend and glorify Islam, as occurred in Yemen or Indonesia. They will have problem with it, only when done so in a critical light, or on critical forums, and to largely non-Muslim audience.
This is typically Islamist attitude, diametrically opposite to “secularism” or “liberalism”, because the latter stands for the defence of free speech, especially criticisms of religion, even in the most outrageously fictitious forms, such as the depiction of Jesus as a “gay”.
Some defenders of free speech have blasted Fatah for attacking Sultan’s exercise of free speech, and have even insinuated that he is a “stealth Islamist” in the guise of a ‘liberal’ or ‘hardened secular’ Muslim.
Under fire, Fatah has come out to defend himself and tried to prove Wafa Sultan a liar or she is willfully ignorant about Aisha’s true age. He wrote another blazing critique of Sultan, entitled Did Prophet Muhammad Rape a Nine-year Old Aisha?
In it, Fatah tries to malign Sultan further, while trying to disprove the fact that Aisha was underage when Muhammad had sex with her. He tried to prove that she was, instead, a full-blown adult.
Was Aisha 9 years old when Muhammad had sex with her?
This has been an incontrovertibly accepted fact amongst Muslims throughout its history. Even today, 99.9% Muslims in Islamic countries accept it as a fact. Only after Western influence came to the Islamic world in the colonial age, and as colonial powers started criticizing, even banning child-marriages, such as in India, that some well-educated and mostly non-practising Muslims started denying that Muhammad had sex with Aisha when she was 9. Fatah has simply parroted the same denials.
Much has been written on the debate of Aisha’s age at the time Muhammad consummated his marriage to her. Anything to be written on this would amount to repetition, indeed over-repetition. Nonetheless, I will quickly run through the references that say she was “nine” when Muhammad had sex with her as well as those references the deniers use.
References supporting Aisha was “nine”
References from the hadith and other historical sources that unequivocally say that Aisha was nine are overwhelming. A truncated list is cited below (see more here at WikiIslam):
- Narrated Aisha: "The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Alright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. [Sahih Bukhari 5:58:234]
- 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old. [Sahih Muslim 8:3311]
- "Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old." [Abu Dawud 2:2116]
- Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old. [Sahih Bukhari 5:58:236]
- Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). [Sahih Bukhari 7:62:64]
- Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)' [Sahih Bukhari 7:62:65]
- Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). [Sahih Bukhari 7:62:88]
- Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. According to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter. [Abu Dawud 41:4915]
- Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. [The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden (in Islam), but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty. (Fateh-al-Bari Vol.13, p. 143)] [Sahih Bukhari 8:73:151]
Status of hadith in Islam: Some uneducated or half-educated moderate Muslims have lately questioned the reliability and relevance of hadith in Islam. They are ignorant that Allah, the Islamic God, commands Muslims in more than dozen verses in the Quran to “follow Me (i.e. Allah’s commands as in the Quran) and My apostle (i.e. Muhammad, or his actions and lifestyle as depicted in the hadith, pious sira and the Quran)” (see Q 3:32, 4:13,59,69, 5:92, 8.1,20,46, 33:33, 47:33, 49:14, 58:13 64:12 etc.). Accordingly, believing in the Quran and the hadith, and trying to emulate the commands and examples outlined in them, are the minimum requirement to become a Muslim. In a Muslim country, even the most secular and non-practising Muslim would say: ‘I am a Muslim because I believe in hadith and the Quran.’
You openly reject or condemn the hadith in a Muslim country, you will invite death, and rightly so, as it is a cornerstone of Islam in the very words of the Muslim God.
 Muhammad married little girl Aisha |
But non-practising liberal Muslims of Tarek Fatah’s rank, who live in the security of the West, aware of how shameful some of the explicit contents of the hadith in modern civilized conscience is, started rejecting those parts of the hadith, because, in the words of Fatah, “Most medieval Islamic history books were written 200–300 years after the advent of Islam”, and therefore, prone to inaccuracy.
Four lines of evidence supporting Aisha was 9 years old: Above hadith references—which has semi-divine, if not divine, status amongst mainstream Muslims—affirm and reaffirm that Aisha was 9 when Muhammad had sex with her. It constitutes statutory rape and pedophilia in civilized modern ethics.
References from Islamic sources offer “four lines of evidence” to fortify the fact that Aisha was nine.
- Mention of the precise age: These hadiths explicitly and repeatedly specify that she was nine years old, when Muhammad had sex with her.
- Playing with dolls: Hadiths also say that Aisha was playing with dolls when she got married, and only children would play with dolls, not full-blown adults. Moreover, Muhammad did not allow playing with dolls beyond the age of puberty.
- Waiting three years to consummate marriage: Hadiths also repeatedly affirm that Muhammad waited three years before having sex with Aisha. This again proves that she was as young as 6 or 7, and was not yet ready for intercourse. So, Muhammad, being a considerate prophet-like person, waited three years to consummate the marriage.
- Thighing: The fourth line of evidence comes from the prophet’s practice of thighing on Aisha, as issued by the Iranian scholars committee. To the query, “What is the opinion of scholars [on thighing] knowing full well that the prophet, the peace and prayer of Allah be upon him, also practiced the "thighing" of Aisha – the mother of believers – may Allah be please with her”, the committee carried out extensive research and issued this fatwa: “After the committee studied the issue, they gave the following reply: “As for the prophet, peace and prayer of Allah be upon him, thighing his fiancée Aisha. She was six years of age and he could not have intercourse with her due to her small age. That is why [the prophet] peace and prayer of Allah be upon him placed HIS MEMBER (i.e. penis) BETWEEN HER THIGHS AND MASSAGED IT SOFTLY, as the apostle of Allah had control of his [male] member not like other believers...”
The fact is clear: since Muhammad could not have intercourse with Aisha because of her too tender age, as young as 6 or 7 when he married Aisha, he had to satisfy himself by massaging his penis between her thighs.
So the evidences, not one but four lines of evidences, from fundamental Islamic texts converge toward the explicitly and repeatedly stated fact that Aisha was nine years old when Muhammad had intercourse with her.
Fatah’s denials
Fatah has tried to deny this monumental evidence proving that Aisha was nine when Muhammad consummated his marriage with her. He throws his first attempt at the denial thus:
This begs the question: How do people like Wafa Sultan or the Islamists claim to know for a fact that the age of Aisha was nine when her marriage to Muhammad was consummated? There are no birth records from the time and there is not a single piece of physical paper that can be traced back to seventh century Arabia that mentions the age of Aisha.
This is way too silly of a scholar and author of Fatah’s reputation. There is no birth certificate of Muhammad, too. Why don’t Fatah deny that Muhammad was not born in 570 CE, or that he became a prophet at 40, or that he died in 632 CE at the age of 63? Muhammad’s age comes from the same course as Aisha’s. If Aisha’s age is faulty, so is Muhammad’s.
Fatah continues:
In the absence of hard evidence, we have two choices:
1. We rely on medieval hearsay and gossip that has unfortunately seeped into Islamic literature, the Hadith and Sharia law, or;
2. We calculate the age of Aisha based on actual agreed upon indisputable chronology of events.
While the Islamists and Wafa Sultan rely on medieval gossip, I have chosen to make a rational estimate of Aisha’s age based on acknowledged historical timelines.
Most medieval Islamic history books were written 200–300 years after the advent of Islam and it is true that all of them state emphatically that Aisha was only nine when she became Muhammad’s bride. However, all of them rely on, and quote, one single individual as the source of this information. His name was Hishām ibn Urwah, a prominent narrator of sayings of the Prophet (the Hadith), who died in the year 756AD. He was Aisha’s great-grand nephew, who first suggested that his great-grand aunt was only nine-years old on the day of her wedding, 125 years after the said event.
Prior to his utterance, a century after the fact, there is no mention or reference to the age of Aisha. Hisham bin Urwah lived and taught in Medina for 70 years, yet no one else—not even his famous pupil Malik ibn Anas—reported Aisha’s age. It is no coincidence that the growth of harems of the Abbasid caliphs mushroomed to hundreds of wives and concubines—many young girls—at the time the sharia law based on bin Urwah’s report, legalized child marriage.
Instead of relying on the words of bin Urwah as so many Islam-haters and Islamists do, I suggest we look at a few facts that prove that Aisha’s age on the day of her wedding could not have been lower than 14 years of age.
It is not true that Aisha’s age was mentioned by one Urwah alone. According to Sufi Muslim scholar Dr. GF Haddad, at least eleven persons have independently reported it directly from Aisha. Haddad writes:
Al-Zuhri also reports it (that Aisha’s age was nine)… from ‘Aisha; so does ‘Abd Allah ibn Dhakwan – both major Madanis. So is the Tabi`i Yahya al-Lakhmi who reports it from her in the Musnad and in Ibn Sa’d's Tabaqat. So is Abu Ishaq Sa’d ibn Ibrahim who reports it from Imam al-Qasim ibn Muhammad – one of the Seven Imams of Madina – from A’isha…
In addition to the above four Madinese Tabi’in narrators, Sufyan ibn ‘Uyayna – from Khurasan – and ‘Abd Allah ibn Muhammad ibn Yahya – from Tabarayya in Palestine – both report it. Nor was this hadith reported only by ‘Urwa but also by ‘Abd al-Malik ibn ‘Umayr, al-Aswad, Ibn Abi Mulayka, Abu Salama ibn ‘Abd al-Rahman ibn ‘Awf, Yahya ibn ‘Abd al-Rahman ibn Hatib, Abu ‘Ubayda (‘Amir ibn ‘Abd Allah ibn Mas`ud) and others of the Tabi’i Imams directly from ‘A’isha.
This makes the report mass-transmitted (mutawatir) from ‘Aisha by over eleven authorities among the Tabi’in, not counting the other major Companions that reported the same, such as Ibn Mas’ud nor other major Successors that reported it from other than ‘Aisha, such as Qatada!
To prove that Aisha was at least 14, Fatah has given three obscure references from Islamic historical sources.
A) First, he says:
The historian al-Tabari (d. 923) informs us in his treatise on Islamic history that the father of Aisha, Abu Bakr had four children and all them were born before the year 610AD, the year of the advent of Islam. If, as is generally accepted, Aisha became Muhammad’s bride in the year 624AD, then she had to be at least 14 years of age, if not older on the day of her wedding.
Let us accept that Urah alone reported Aisha’s age although the fact is otherwise. To Fatah, Urwah could not be correct, because he mentioned Aisha’s age 120 years after Muhammad’s wedding to Muhammad, even though he was Aisha’s great grandson, who learned about it from his father, who must have had met his grandmother Aisha.
But, would Fatah tell us how could Tabari give us a more accurate date, given that he mentioned it some 300 years after the wedding?
Moreover, Tabari did not specify any date of Aisha’s marriage to Muhammad. How can an abstract mention as Tabari's, from which you have to use complicated calculations to reach at Aisha’s age, be more credible than outright specification of a date about Aisha’s age repeated time and again in Islamic literature by a dozen independent reporters?
Not only that, Tabari elsewhere concretely specifies Aisha’s age as nine when Muhammad had sex with her [Tabari IX:131]:
“(Aisha said:) My mother came to me while I was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down. My nurse took over and wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was brought in while Muhammad was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. The other men and women got up and left. The Prophet consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me.”
Why is it that the same Tabari’s direct mention that Aisha’s was nine when Muhammad consummated his marriage, a reference confirmed by many other authors in multiple ways, is less credible than a dubious mention about Abu Bakr’s children’s birth?
B) Next, Fatah mentioned a reference of Persian historian Ibn Hisham (d. 833):
Other calculations based on historical events place Aisha as old as 20 when she was became a bride. Ibn Hisham (d. 833), the historian, reports that Aisha accepted Islam quite some time before Umar (the second caliph). This means she must have been at least a young girl in the year 610. Assuming she was five years old when Abu Bakr and his family converted to Islam, the information puts the age of Aisha at 20 or more at the time of her marriage with Muhammad was consummated in 624AD.
First thing here: Fatah does not give the exact quote, and it is hard to judge what Ibn Hisham meant. Yet, 1) this mention was made some 200 years after Aisha’s marriage to Muhammad; hence, it couldn’t be more credible than the mention made in hadith literature some 8 decades earlier; and 2) it does not make a direct mention of Aisha’s age: you have to twist your brain to arrive at her age.
Moreover, this is a silly reference. Aisha never accepted Islam; she became Muslim because Abu Bakr, her father, embraced Islam. If she was born after Abu Bakr accepted Islam, he became a Muslim on the day of her birth.
And how can Fatah, from this reference, say that “This means she must have been at least a young girl in the year 610”?
She need not be a young girl at 610; she could well have been born a couple of months before Omar’s acceptance of Islam, so she was a Muslim quite before Omar became a Muslim. If Aisha was born, and thus became a Muslim, a year before Omar’s embracing Islam (i.e. c. 615), that agrees perfectly well with the fact that Aisha was nine at the time Muhammad had sex with her. Hisham’s reference, however abstract, does contradict the hadith mention of Aisha’s age as nine; instead, it reaffirms it.
C) Fatah’s final reference about Aisha’s age comes as thus:
Furthermore, most Islamic historians agree that Asma, the elder sister of Aisha, was ten years older than her. It is also reported that Asma died in 683AD at the ripe age of 100. If this is true, then Asma would have been 31 years old at the time of Aisha’s wedding with Muhammad in 624 and the bride would have been 21.
This is again an indirect way of arriving at Aisha’s age. Mention of the age of Aisha, the mother of the believers—whether by historian like Tabari or Islamic scholars such as the hadith compilers—commands a much greater credibility than the mention of Asma’s age.
Moreover, there are three variables here, which can twist real age:
1) As mentioned above, there is no exact date of Asma’s birth;
2) Historians belief that Asma was 10 years older than Aisha is just a belief; belief is no fact. In reality, she could have been 8 years or 12 years older.
3) Asma died at the ripe age of 100, as mentioned by Tabari, is troublesome. There are a couple of points about this statement. It was extremely unusual for someone to live 100 years in those times. If someone lived 80 or 90-plus years, it would have been such a rare event that people in those days would have said: he/she lived a hundred years. Moreover, the years mentioned was according to Arabic calendar, meaning that her age was some 3-4 years lower in Gregorian calendar. All these considerations still put Aisha’s age quite around 9, not 21, as Fatah desperately tried to establish.
In sum, the references that put Aisha’s age at 9 come from hadith literature that has a near-divine status in Islam. Moreover, hadiths are the only literature in Islam that was based on research methodology unrivalled in Islamic history up to the present day. It was also recorded some 80 or 180 years earlier than other reference Fatah has used to show Aisha was an adult. Also, the mention that Aisha was nine, when Muhammad had sex with her, was made by a closest relative, her great grandson, who can be trusted more than anyone else.
Moreover, as mentioned above, four lines of independent sure-fire evidence from Islamic literature, not some abstract and indirect reference, support that Aisha was 9. And, for some fourteen hundreds years, Muslims had no difficulty with that age; even today, overwhelming majority of Muslims believe she was nine. Only when critics identified it as troublesome issue for a prophet and started criticizing Muhammad on its basis that some rare liberal Muslims like Fatah started digging into rare obscure and indirect references to establish that Aisha was an adult, when Muhammad consummated his marriage with her.
A pervert Prophet and his psychopathic follower
To Fatah and Muslims of his rank, Muhammad not only married an adult Aisha, but his marriage to her was one of “pure love”. Fatah quotes Farzana Hassan, the author of Islam, Women and the Challenges of Today:
“…the charge against Mohammad as a child molester, however, is unjustified for the following reason: His relationship with Aisha was a loving relationship between two consenting adults. It is more than likely that Aisha was closer to being nineteen than nine at the time of marriage. This claim is supported by historical data that puts Aisha at least 15 at the time, though it is likely she was older.”
Fatah himself asserts:
…if one hates Islam and Muslims with the ferocity and vengeance of Wafa Sultan, then it will be difficult to them her believe that the relationship between Muhammad and Aisha was one of love and adoration…
It is utterly psychopathic to claim that Muhammad’s marriage to Aisha or any other of his wives could have been a “loving” one. Muhammad was not only a polygamist, but had an staggering 11 wives at the same time, as mentioned in a hadith above; plus he had a few, probably, many sex-slaves, since he used to acquire one-fifth of the women, captured in his battles.
Let Ms Farzana’s husband keep 11 wives, and throw in a few more sex-slaves in the mix of his harem, and then let her tell us how loving her relationship with her husband would be. How about Fatah taking 11 wives and a few sex-slaves, and have a loving relationship with each of his wives!
To Muslims like Fatah and Farzana, those relationships could be a “loving” one, but civilized people of our time see it as one between a lustful sex-pervert and a subjugated woman.
Muhammad had nothing that can be called ‘love’ in his relationship with his wives, particularly after he became the established prophet of Islam in Medina. He was a sadistic sex-pervert par excellence, who not only built a huge harem as his prophetic power grew, but also captured women of innocent non-Muslim communities after slaughtering their men en masse, and used those women as sex-slaves. And, to qualify as a lustful sadist of the worst degree, Muhammad used to take the prettiest of the captured women to bed on the same day their family-members had been slaughtered, and he often raped them in his tent amidst the blood-drenched battle-fields, strewn with dead-bodies, as occurred in his attack and defeat of the Jews of Khaybar, and Banu Mustaliq etc. Muslim holy warriors perpetuated this paradigm throughout the centuries.
One must have a “psychopathic mind” to claim that Muhammad’s relationship with Aisha, even if she was an adult at the consummation of their marriage, was a “loving” one.
In sum, Muhammad’s sex-life is riddled with perversity, sadism, and horror; his marriage with Aisha, even if she was a child, was a smaller crime. And, a sadistic sex-pervert as Muhammad was, he would have cared little about whether Aisha was underage or adult, when he had sex with her.
Muslims have to discard the Quran to rid Islam of pedophilia
To Fatah, and his kind of liberal Muslims, it is the unreliable hadith, despite its being the finest Islamic literature in terms of the research methodology involved, is all the problems that plague Islam to our day. He says:
We refuse to discard the ossified books of the Hadith that justify so much that is wrong in the Islamic world and which contribute to so much shame and embarrassment….
Muslim scholars are caught in their own predicament. Most are willing to concede that historical timelines suggest Aisha could not have been aged nine when she became Muhammad’s bride. However, if they were to admit this flaw in the Hadith books, they would be opening a pandoras box. How many more laws of sharia, based on the hadith, are lies and need to be discarded.
Too much is at stake for the Islamic establishment to admit that Prophet Muhammad was not the husband of a child bride. They would rather see their leader mocked then to admit to the fallibility of the Hadith literature…
Muslims cannot discard the hadith, because, as pointed out above, that it is the Islamic God’s command, repeated in over a dozen verses, that Muslims must follow Muhammad as much as they follow the Quran.
Secondly, it is not the hadith that is the problem. The problem lies in the Quran. There is no contradiction whatsoever between hadith and the Quran.
As concern our present case, pedophilia in Islam, it is overtly sanctioned by Allah in Quran 65:4:
And (as for) those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time shall be three months, and of those too who have not had their courses; and (as for) the pregnant women, their prescribed time is that they lay down their burden; and whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah He will make easy for him his affair.
This verse talk about waiting period (iddah) for a divorced woman before she can remarry, so as to ensure that she does not carry a child of her former husband. It talks about three kinds of women: 1) “those of your women who have despaired of menstruation”, i.e. post-menopausal women, 2) “those too who have not had their courses”, i.e. pre-pubescent girls, and 3) “the pregnant women”, i.e. mature menstruating women.
Therefore, the Quran, or the Islamic God for that matter, allows marriage of prepubescent girl, and even sexual intercourse with them. Pedophilia is, thus, a divinely-sanctioned institution in Islam. The hadith, at best, reaffirm it.
Fatah rails against hadith, as well as against Islamic scholars, Mullahs, and even caliphs for inventing and perpetuating many ills that plagues Islam today. But, none of these are the root of Islam’s problem, unless one is a half-educated, if not uneducated, or possibly dishonest, Muslim of Fatah’s rank.
In conclusion, to rid Islam of pedophilia, Muslims have to discard the Quran first.
Would liberal Muslims advocate for the same, which will cut the roots of Islam’s problem, instead of advocating the cutting of some branches, as Fatah has done, which would an inconsequential exercise at best?
Well, I doubt it.
----
Readers are advised to read Dr. Haddad's fine article on the controversy of Aisha's age: http://mac.abc.se/~onesr/d/aam2_e.pdf.
M. A. Khan is the author of Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism and Slavery.
Comments (141)
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written by duh_swami , April 04, 2010
What kind of man can't tell the difference between a nine year old girl, and a beautiful 23 year old woman? What kind of man would choose the child, over the woman?
"In conclusion, to rid Islam of pedophilia, Muslims have to discard the Quran first".
I don't think many Muslims will do either one...I think it was the French guy who sang 'Thank God/Allah for little girls'...Muslims take that seriously...
"In conclusion, to rid Islam of pedophilia, Muslims have to discard the Quran first".
I don't think many Muslims will do either one...I think it was the French guy who sang 'Thank God/Allah for little girls'...Muslims take that seriously...
written by sanaa , April 04, 2010
I really want to read your book.Im still young and so in custody of my parents.Im a muslim girl living in India.I am not religious at all.I thought islam was very peaceful and people who were converted gladly accepted it.But reading all this im shocked and i want to know more.I cannot buy your book because my parents wont allow me to.But i really feel a deep urge to know the truth.I wanted to ask you if you could please sent a copy or maybe a concise version of your book so that i can know the truth about my religion.I hope you being an ex-muslim are able to understand how im feeling right now.Pls help....
written by Healer_999 , April 04, 2010
I am not MA Khan, but I am OK in knowledge regarding Islam. So if you want to send a mail to me, you can send. I am writing my e-mail address below. I have some electronic copies of books by Anwar Shiekh.
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This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
written by Mule , April 04, 2010
Quote from answeringmuslims.com :
When a girl hasn't gone through puberty, her hips often haven't widened for giving birth. Such girls can easily die in labor, along with their babies. This is why girls who haven't completed puberty shouldn't be having sex. Unfortunately, Muslims are commanded to follow the example of Muhammad, who had sex with the prepubescent Aisha when she was only nine years old. The Qur'an also allows men to have sex with prepubescent girls (see Surah 65:4 and Muslim commentaries on the verse).
When a girl hasn't gone through puberty, her hips often haven't widened for giving birth. Such girls can easily die in labor, along with their babies. This is why girls who haven't completed puberty shouldn't be having sex. Unfortunately, Muslims are commanded to follow the example of Muhammad, who had sex with the prepubescent Aisha when she was only nine years old. The Qur'an also allows men to have sex with prepubescent girls (see Surah 65:4 and Muslim commentaries on the verse).
written by joginder , April 04, 2010
Shame on muslims for trying to defend such a henious crime against a little girl.
what kind of prophet this man is ?? He is marrying a kid when he is 54yr old - he has 11 wives ??? Why the hell does he need 11wives and a 9yr old baby to spread the message of GOD.
cheap man
what kind of prophet this man is ?? He is marrying a kid when he is 54yr old - he has 11 wives ??? Why the hell does he need 11wives and a 9yr old baby to spread the message of GOD.
cheap man
written by Mule , April 04, 2010
Don't forget to add his sex slaves. There must have been many of them. One fifth of all holy war booty. Was there anything that Mohammed did that Allah did not approve of? What does that tell us about Allah?
written by kope , April 04, 2010
christianity will die because of pedophilia
=====================
Please read my blog read how islam will win the
clash of civilization.
http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
=====================
Please read my blog read how islam will win the
clash of civilization.
http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
written by Kohi , April 04, 2010
"christianity will die because of pedophilia"
All sane people know this (pedophilla) is evil and WRONG those priests who did this knew it was wrong and will/should be punished. BUT ISLAM ENCOURGES child rape what backward group of animals are muzzies!
All sane people know this (pedophilla) is evil and WRONG those priests who did this knew it was wrong and will/should be punished. BUT ISLAM ENCOURGES child rape what backward group of animals are muzzies!
written by G Watson , April 04, 2010
It's an interesting article. I'd like to talk to M. A. Khan about it. Can anyone let me know where I should send my email to?
written by MA Khan, editor , April 04, 2010
Dear Sanaa,
We regret that our contact page is not working. You can email me at admin.at.islam-watch.org. Replace .at. with @ while typing the email address.
G Watson, you can write at the same email too.
We regret that our contact page is not working. You can email me at admin.at.islam-watch.org. Replace .at. with @ while typing the email address.
G Watson, you can write at the same email too.
written by MA Khan , April 04, 2010
Aisha’s age was mentioned by one Urwah alone. According to Sufi Muslim scholar Dr. GF Haddad, at least eleven persons have independently reported it directly from Aisha. Haddad writes:
Thanks to Archimedez for directing me to this info.
Al-Zuhri also reports it (that Aisha’s age was nine)… from ‘Aisha; so does ‘Abd Allah ibn Dhakwan – both major Madanis. So is the Tabi`i Yahya al-Lakhmi who reports it from her in the Musnad and in Ibn Sa’d's Tabaqat. So is Abu Ishaq Sa’d ibn Ibrahim who reports it from Imam al-Qasim ibn Muhammad – one of the Seven Imams of Madina – from A’isha…
In addition to the above four Madinese Tabi’in narrators, Sufyan ibn ‘Uyayna – from Khurasan – and ‘Abd Allah ibn Muhammad ibn Yahya – from Tabarayya in Palestine – both report it. Nor was this hadith reported only by ‘Urwa but also by ‘Abd al-Malik ibn ‘Umayr, al-Aswad, Ibn Abi Mulayka, Abu Salama ibn ‘Abd al-Rahman ibn ‘Awf, Yahya ibn ‘Abd al-Rahman ibn Hatib, Abu ‘Ubayda (‘Amir ibn ‘Abd Allah ibn Mas`ud) and others of the Tabi’i Imams directly from ‘A’isha.
This makes the report mass-transmitted (mutawatir) from ‘Aisha by over eleven authorities among the Tabi’in, not counting the other major Companions that reported the same, such as Ibn Mas’ud nor other major Successors that reported it from other than ‘Aisha, such as Qatada!
Thanks to Archimedez for directing me to this info.
written by Kabir , April 05, 2010
There is no doubt that Muhammad married Aisha at the age of 6 and Muslims for centuries knew it and acknowledged it. But they never questioned it because they are not allowed to question anything - they have been reduced to such a dumb lot! Only when the Non-Muslim world started to raise the issue and declared that Pedophilia is a actually a sin, they started to deny the whole issue. The key thing that must be noted is that development in 'Moderate' Muslims cannot be attributed to Islam at all, it is the Non-Muslims cultures that they live with have brought change in their lives making them moderate or in other words unaware and uncertain of true Islam. Islam might be the fastest growing religion today, but at the same time if Non-Muslim people come together they can rip it apart, piece by piece, by applying logic and information.
written by Reed Wilson , April 05, 2010
To Mr. MA Khan. In the beginning of your article you write "But pedophilia, in fact, is an Allah-sanctioned divine institution is Islam, established by the Quran. To rid Islam of pedophilia, Muslims have to discard the Quran first". You did not substantiate your claim about Quran from relevant Quranic quotation.
It will make your claim stronger if you quote from Quran.
It will make your claim stronger if you quote from Quran.
written by MA Khan , April 05, 2010
Hi Reed,
It seems you didn't read the article in full. Toward the end of the article, I have included the Quranic verse. However, I will modify the intro for those, who won't read the article through.
It seems you didn't read the article in full. Toward the end of the article, I have included the Quranic verse. However, I will modify the intro for those, who won't read the article through.
written by Healer_999, , April 05, 2010
That verse is crystal clear in telling that girls, women before starting of periods, can be married and divorced.
I guess this is from Shakir or Ali. Look at Hilali's.
And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise, except in case of death]*. And for those who are pregnant (whether they are divorced or their husbands are dead), their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is until they deliver (their burdens), and whosoever fears Allâh and keeps his duty to Him, He will make his matter easy for him.
All these will not satisfy Reed and he will write some arabic word and then he says it means some thing, so Koran does not sanction child marriages. This is his standard procedure, which I call it Reed's logic.
I guess this is from Shakir or Ali. Look at Hilali's.
And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise, except in case of death]*. And for those who are pregnant (whether they are divorced or their husbands are dead), their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is until they deliver (their burdens), and whosoever fears Allâh and keeps his duty to Him, He will make his matter easy for him.
All these will not satisfy Reed and he will write some arabic word and then he says it means some thing, so Koran does not sanction child marriages. This is his standard procedure, which I call it Reed's logic.
written by duh_swami , April 05, 2010
From article...Therefore, the Quran, or the Islamic God for that matter, allows marriage of prepubescent girl, and even sexual intercourse with them.
I think it's more than 'allows', it seems more like a recommendation...A statement of 'preference'...
From article...The fatwa said: "They can get married at any age, even girls who haven’t started menstruating… And they can have intimate relationships and intercourse, as long as they are able.”
This is an invitation for perverts to have sex with infants...To make it legal, all you have to do is marry them...Allah is very wise...He knows what pious Muslims want, and does/did everything he could to make sure they get it...Quran 65:4
(and the examples of Mohammad) is like a permit, or license, for child marriage and rape...If Allah did not approve, he would not be issuing licenses...
I think it's more than 'allows', it seems more like a recommendation...A statement of 'preference'...
From article...The fatwa said: "They can get married at any age, even girls who haven’t started menstruating… And they can have intimate relationships and intercourse, as long as they are able.”
This is an invitation for perverts to have sex with infants...To make it legal, all you have to do is marry them...Allah is very wise...He knows what pious Muslims want, and does/did everything he could to make sure they get it...Quran 65:4
(and the examples of Mohammad) is like a permit, or license, for child marriage and rape...If Allah did not approve, he would not be issuing licenses...
written by Reed Wilson , April 05, 2010
Mr. MAKhan. Do you mean 65:4? You write Therefore, the Quran, or the Islamic God for that matter, allows marriage of prepubescent girl, and even sexual intercourse with them. Pedophilia is, thus, a divinely-sanctioned institution in Islam". This verse does not mean what you mean. It is far fetched interpretation. You need the clutches of Hadith to support your claim. If it satisfies you, it is fine!
written by Healer_999, , April 05, 2010
I am sure that man will produce more stupidity. Some times this kind makes me to laugh and some times I just feel like typing horrible words here which I tend to resist.
He does't feel any thing, neither shame nor decency to write such things here, that's what makes me to think at times about how low Humans can go in logic.
Some one quoted a Einstein in this regard here. It is like only two things are infinite 1. University (Correct me here)
2. Human stupidity. I guess we have proof for that second one right here.
He does't feel any thing, neither shame nor decency to write such things here, that's what makes me to think at times about how low Humans can go in logic.
Some one quoted a Einstein in this regard here. It is like only two things are infinite 1. University (Correct me here)
2. Human stupidity. I guess we have proof for that second one right here.
written by Tanstaafl (JW) , April 05, 2010
So the hadith are not accurate? All of them? Or just some of them? Which ones are accurate and which ones are not? You should publish a list so that the ummah knows what is right and what is wrong. Of course, some of the learned "scholars" of Islam might disagree with you. You might even be called an apostate. And you know what that means...............
written by mirror , April 05, 2010
@ Healer above
"Some one quoted a Einstein in this regard here. It is like only two things are infinite 1. University (Correct me here)" it should be the Universe.
"Some one quoted a Einstein in this regard here. It is like only two things are infinite 1. University (Correct me here)" it should be the Universe.
written by Shibli Zaman , April 05, 2010
You are sticking your head in sand . . All the islamic scholars accept aya 65.4 as a sanction to have sex with little girls at any age . Except that this aya could not be from Allah and was added later by the pedophlies who wanted divine sanction to support their lust for little girls.. It appears that pedophiles outnumbered the homosexuals in Usman Quran committee and among Ummaiyyad and Abbasid kings who added verses to the new quran otherwise they would have added an aya or two about having sex with little boys also acceptable to Allah. But homos definitely had little more influence on the later quran writers than women since lesbians are to be killed (4.15) while homos are to be pardoned if they say sorry (4.16). That is your corrupted quran Reed.
written by Healer_999, , April 05, 2010
Are the following ones also were added during Uthman time:
9.005, 9:014, 9:023, 9.029, 9:033, 9:038, 9:039, 9:041, 9:073, 9.111 and 9:123?
9.005, 9:014, 9:023, 9.029, 9:033, 9:038, 9:039, 9:041, 9:073, 9.111 and 9:123?
written by duh_swami , April 05, 2010
Shibli...Except that this aya could not be from Allah and was added later by the pedophlies who wanted divine sanction to support their lust for little girls..
And there is the root of the problem...If this aya is not from Allah, are there any others not from him?...This flies in the face the the common idea that the Quran is the word of Allah, not written by man, immutable and for all time, 'Holy Book'...
But if only one aya is not from Allah then the whole Quran is spoiled...'One rotten apple spoils the barrel'...So what aya's should a pious Muslim trust?
If greedy men have tampered with it, how can we trust any of it?
According to sharia, these men are apostates and could be killed if they were alive today...So then, modern Muslims who consider themselves pious, who do the prayers, fast, bow in homage, pay the zakat, and renounce agreements with Jews, including many who can speak and read the Quran in Arabic, are following the false religion of apostates...This is not good Shibli...Thanks for informing Reed and others...
And there is the root of the problem...If this aya is not from Allah, are there any others not from him?...This flies in the face the the common idea that the Quran is the word of Allah, not written by man, immutable and for all time, 'Holy Book'...
But if only one aya is not from Allah then the whole Quran is spoiled...'One rotten apple spoils the barrel'...So what aya's should a pious Muslim trust?
If greedy men have tampered with it, how can we trust any of it?
According to sharia, these men are apostates and could be killed if they were alive today...So then, modern Muslims who consider themselves pious, who do the prayers, fast, bow in homage, pay the zakat, and renounce agreements with Jews, including many who can speak and read the Quran in Arabic, are following the false religion of apostates...This is not good Shibli...Thanks for informing Reed and others...
written by Healer_999, , April 05, 2010
I am not asking whether Universe is infinite or not, but was 'The Univrese' the one used in his quote.
written by MA Khan , April 05, 2010
Verse 65:4 needs no interpretation at all if one has a few stands of neuron intact in her/his brain. It is crystal-clear on its own term. Allah has said in a dozen verses that the Quran is a clear message. The likes of Reed want to dispute Allah on that claim, but, on this verse, Allah's claim stands.
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , April 05, 2010
Reed, whatever, mr. MA.Khan the admin of this website wrote an fantastic article and now get with the truth. Actually Aisha's uterus was damaged when she was too young for marriage, thats why she couldn't bore any child to Muhammad.
have a good day (but after leaving islam)
Mohammad.A.Khan
have a good day (but after leaving islam)
Mohammad.A.Khan
written by fineliving56 , April 05, 2010
I think you forgot suret altoor 52/24......... they[ servant boys] will go around[devoted ] to them,[in heaven] youth[ handsome] as pearls ,well guarded .
clearly this sura insinuates having beautiful little boys as servants shiny as pearls not girl servant .It seems Janna going to carers to every one pedophiles,gays and womanizers too bad nothing mentioned for women .
clearly this sura insinuates having beautiful little boys as servants shiny as pearls not girl servant .It seems Janna going to carers to every one pedophiles,gays and womanizers too bad nothing mentioned for women .
written by mirror , April 05, 2010
I am not asking whether Universe is infinite or not, but was 'The Univrese' the one used in his quote.
@healer
I understood your question perfectly the first time ,itself.
The quote had the "Universe" ,only;not "university".it does not make sense otherwise.[p.s. I have read the quote by Einstein,even before it was mentioned
here.]
M.A.Khan ,and all other right thinking people
"An Indian doctor in Saudi Arabia has been in solitary confinement with her infant child for nearly 18 days pending investigations into her husband’s suspected murder, after he allegedly converted to Islam." Today i came across this sad news from Hindusthan Times.Could you please high-light this girls plight in the International Media,to help her to safety and justice. Only the Hindusthan Times have reported on this story.http://www.hindustantimes.com/Indian-woman-held-in-Saudi-Arabia-for-husband-s-murder/H1-Article1-526839.aspx
Below is the link to the epaper article.
hindustantimes EXCLUSIVE - Indian woman held in Saudi for ...
hindustantimes EXCLUSIVE - Indian woman held in Saudi for husband's death ... In Saudi Arabia earlier this week, Tharoor instructed Indian officials to ...
epaper.hindustantimes.com/CWArticle.aspx?wpt=2&Id... - Cached
@healer
I understood your question perfectly the first time ,itself.
The quote had the "Universe" ,only;not "university".it does not make sense otherwise.[p.s. I have read the quote by Einstein,even before it was mentioned
here.]
M.A.Khan ,and all other right thinking people
"An Indian doctor in Saudi Arabia has been in solitary confinement with her infant child for nearly 18 days pending investigations into her husband’s suspected murder, after he allegedly converted to Islam." Today i came across this sad news from Hindusthan Times.Could you please high-light this girls plight in the International Media,to help her to safety and justice. Only the Hindusthan Times have reported on this story.http://www.hindustantimes.com/Indian-woman-held-in-Saudi-Arabia-for-husband-s-murder/H1-Article1-526839.aspx
Below is the link to the epaper article.
hindustantimes EXCLUSIVE - Indian woman held in Saudi for ...
hindustantimes EXCLUSIVE - Indian woman held in Saudi for husband's death ... In Saudi Arabia earlier this week, Tharoor instructed Indian officials to ...
epaper.hindustantimes.com/CWArticle.aspx?wpt=2&Id... - Cached
written by mirror , April 05, 2010
The above news is not getting as much coverage as sania mirza-shoib Malik are getting .There are 48 pages of 250 comments to that story and one Muslims is playing takiya saying that being a dhimmi is giving them a "protected" status.("Under the system of "Jizya" a sort of poll tax, non Muslims could keep their faith and live as "Dhimmis" i.e., looked after people with some restrictions on their religious activities. Islam in India was brought mainly by Sufis who were great influenced by Christian and Hindu Bhakti, life of adoration of God, and love for all "... thus gopes the quote and this was from only the most moderate of all the muslims[as far as we know from names]who commented. This is the freedom that exists in India where the media are more bothered about will Shoib marry Sania,than the plight of an innocent young mother,who has delivered a child barely a fortnight before she is arrested/detained as a murderer of her Husband.
written by Mufti , April 06, 2010
Quran 65:4, At Thalaq:4, explain about period between divorcement and next marriage for women, not about marriage with child. it's not about pedoohilia.
written by Reed Wilson , April 06, 2010
To Mohammad.A.Khan. “Whatever he wrote was fantastic”. There is no risk in accepting it. You are going step ahead of telling about Aisha’s uterus. You all are very knowledgeable people. I find the reason why you don’t run out of praises for Hadith. You owe a lot to hadith.
Hadith will even tell you the penis size of Yahya (John the Baptist). Bukhari is said to have gathered 600,000 hadiths. 300,000 he memorized and (only) 2600 out them he reported. We must believe all this to be true.
He reports that there were 2, 24000 messengers of Allah. In another hadis (which does not contradict the earlier) he reports that there were 1, 2400 messengers of Allah. Both are correct.
Alas, he did not report all 600,000 hadits he collected. Otherwise you must be having the sizes of penises of all the messengers, 2, 2400 and 1, 24000. How important this information would have been which you are being deprived of?
In Bukhari we find a very long hadith regarding first revelation which is often quoted on these pages. We know that there was any Aisha, she was not born at the time of first revelation. She says she heard from Khadija. Let us ignore that why this hadith is not from Khadija? We don't have to bother if both the ladies ever met!
To me this character of Bukhari (Aisha) is a habitual liar. It was specifically created for Islamwatch.
Thank you for your conditional wish “have a good day (but after leaving islam)”.You know Mohammad, people like RW do not apostatize. Will Abraham apostatize? Or for that matter, will any messenger apostatize? I am follower of them all.
Hadith will even tell you the penis size of Yahya (John the Baptist). Bukhari is said to have gathered 600,000 hadiths. 300,000 he memorized and (only) 2600 out them he reported. We must believe all this to be true.
He reports that there were 2, 24000 messengers of Allah. In another hadis (which does not contradict the earlier) he reports that there were 1, 2400 messengers of Allah. Both are correct.
Alas, he did not report all 600,000 hadits he collected. Otherwise you must be having the sizes of penises of all the messengers, 2, 2400 and 1, 24000. How important this information would have been which you are being deprived of?
In Bukhari we find a very long hadith regarding first revelation which is often quoted on these pages. We know that there was any Aisha, she was not born at the time of first revelation. She says she heard from Khadija. Let us ignore that why this hadith is not from Khadija? We don't have to bother if both the ladies ever met!
To me this character of Bukhari (Aisha) is a habitual liar. It was specifically created for Islamwatch.
Thank you for your conditional wish “have a good day (but after leaving islam)”.You know Mohammad, people like RW do not apostatize. Will Abraham apostatize? Or for that matter, will any messenger apostatize? I am follower of them all.
written by Machmoed , April 06, 2010
Bukhari is considered to be one of the reliable individuals...same with sahih Muslim. If even these individuals are wrong or produced some lies, dicard the whole thing as reliable. So far so good. But if hadieth mean lies, then the story they tell, must also be a lie because we are not going to know what is truth or what is lie. If we arrive at this station then the endstation is in sight. The Qoran/islam is accomplished by human achievements and let us humans achieve some more greatness. Let's get rid of those lies about Allah/God.
Reed, how sure are you about the messengers/prophets. All scientific evidence points out to no existence of those messengers and as you know Allh/God never sended down a scripture duriong the supposed life of the messengers. Why are you ignoring this fact!
Reed, how sure are you about the messengers/prophets. All scientific evidence points out to no existence of those messengers and as you know Allh/God never sended down a scripture duriong the supposed life of the messengers. Why are you ignoring this fact!
written by MA Khan , April 06, 2010
Mufti, ya it talks about waiting period for divorced women before they can remarry.
It also specify three kinds of such women: 1) “those of your women who have despaired of menstruation”, i.e. post-menopausal women, 2) “those too who have not had their courses”, i.e. pre-pubescent girls, and 3) “the pregnant women”, i.e. mature menstruating women.
Hilali's translation of the verse makes it crystal clear:
This verse also exposes another instance of ignorance of Allah, aka Muhammad, that women don't concieve before reaching the age of menstruation, although with the radical advancement of medical sciences, it is today possible to induce artificial conception in postmenopausal women (and also probably in pre-puberty girls likewise).
It also specify three kinds of such women: 1) “those of your women who have despaired of menstruation”, i.e. post-menopausal women, 2) “those too who have not had their courses”, i.e. pre-pubescent girls, and 3) “the pregnant women”, i.e. mature menstruating women.
Hilali's translation of the verse makes it crystal clear:
"And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise, except in case of death]. And for those who are pregnant (whether they are divorced or their husbands are dead), their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is until they deliver (their burdens)..."So, girls, who have not yet reached puberty or menses, are clearly allowed to be married, to have sex with, and to be divorced in Islam.
This verse also exposes another instance of ignorance of Allah, aka Muhammad, that women don't concieve before reaching the age of menstruation, although with the radical advancement of medical sciences, it is today possible to induce artificial conception in postmenopausal women (and also probably in pre-puberty girls likewise).
written by vik , April 06, 2010
TO sara if you want ma khan's book you can mail me i do have m.a.khan's book i can send you my mail id is
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written by Reed Wilson , April 06, 2010
Shibli. “All the islamic scholars accept aya 65.4 as a sanction to have sex with little girls at any age”. This statement should be discarded outright. Do you have any formal education? Will your teacher accept such trash? Your hatred for so called Uthman and love for Imam Ali have claimed your wits.
When you have the text available, why do you need the Islamic scholars? The IS are not different. You are not less than IS. You are taking out far fetched meanings. Your ignorance is for you.
The women are for reproduction 2:223. Can you get anything out of child girls or baby girls? Allah is not talking of freaks.
Allah has invariably used the word Nisa for marriageable women. This word is not for minor girl or a baby girl.
There is no mention of homos in 4:15-16. It is zulm which you are doing.
You write “That is your corrupted quran Reed”. What is your Quran Shibli? Why don’t you give me the correct Quran? Isn’t it your duty?
When you have the text available, why do you need the Islamic scholars? The IS are not different. You are not less than IS. You are taking out far fetched meanings. Your ignorance is for you.
The women are for reproduction 2:223. Can you get anything out of child girls or baby girls? Allah is not talking of freaks.
Allah has invariably used the word Nisa for marriageable women. This word is not for minor girl or a baby girl.
There is no mention of homos in 4:15-16. It is zulm which you are doing.
You write “That is your corrupted quran Reed”. What is your Quran Shibli? Why don’t you give me the correct Quran? Isn’t it your duty?
written by Reed Wilson , April 06, 2010
To Healer-999
Yes.the following ones also were added during Uthman time:
9.005, 9:014, 9:023, 9.029, 9:033, 9:038, 9:039, 9:041, 9:073, 9.111 and 9:123?
Imam Ali was an spectator.
Yes.the following ones also were added during Uthman time:
9.005, 9:014, 9:023, 9.029, 9:033, 9:038, 9:039, 9:041, 9:073, 9.111 and 9:123?
Imam Ali was an spectator.
written by Machmoed , April 06, 2010
The most misguided khaliefs ever. Was it Allah who misguided them? A muslim believes it is God's will to guide or misguide....so Yes to a muslim these khaliefs were indeed misguided. Ofcourse they believe they are guided, but we know the truth/reality, don't we!
My grandma also had a qoran in wich she could take a look and she was called an (woman) imam...like imam Ali who had a different qoran and then let Uthmann destroy it. Was Ali a fraud like the rest...it must be, because how can let you the real word of Allah (according to his followers) be replaced by a lie of humans (uthmanic recension). According to what's written it was Ali who gave him the mushaf for destruction so muslims wouldn't get confused. All these mumble jumble stories mean just one thing......It's a story..and shame on those who say it is from God/Allah.
My grandma also had a qoran in wich she could take a look and she was called an (woman) imam...like imam Ali who had a different qoran and then let Uthmann destroy it. Was Ali a fraud like the rest...it must be, because how can let you the real word of Allah (according to his followers) be replaced by a lie of humans (uthmanic recension). According to what's written it was Ali who gave him the mushaf for destruction so muslims wouldn't get confused. All these mumble jumble stories mean just one thing......It's a story..and shame on those who say it is from God/Allah.
written by duh_swami , April 06, 2010
Why don’t you give me the correct Quran? Isn’t it your duty?
There is no 'correct' Quran, according to you guys...Which is what I suspected all along...This means, of course, that all Muslims are worshipping an incorrect god who dictated an incorrect book...I don't blame Reed for rejecting this mess, but he would be better off to just apostate himself all the way, and quit trying to hold on to, and justify, falsehoods...
There is no 'correct' Quran, according to you guys...Which is what I suspected all along...This means, of course, that all Muslims are worshipping an incorrect god who dictated an incorrect book...I don't blame Reed for rejecting this mess, but he would be better off to just apostate himself all the way, and quit trying to hold on to, and justify, falsehoods...
written by Healer_999 , April 06, 2010
We have people here saying Koran is not original Koran, so we all have an obligation to know from these people what is the original Koran.
If Original Koran is the one which does't say any thing about Kafirs (Kuffar), then about 3800 verses have to be removed.
Then we will be left with 2436 verses. Of these some verses are of real stupidity, esp. to Shibil, like the one which says Sun sets in mud pond, like the one Mohammad created out of a nice pond before the battle of Badr, so we have to remove this kind too. But how many? Say 500.
Then remaining are about 1936 verses. If we take off repetitions from Koran, suppose one in each four is a repetition, we remove 250. What will be our score now? It is around 1706. Then we 91 verses telling Muslims to follow Mohammad. So remove these too. Now the list has 1615.
So we have Koran of 1615 verses. Hey Muslims should not object because this is a multiple of number 19. (1615 / 19 = 85). See. We have a pattern and so divinely sanctioned.
Now likes of Redd and Shibil will not have any problem from us, but they will have a problem from Osama Bin Laden, Saudi King, President of Iran and Some Ayatollahs in Iran. I guess they have a choice here and it is theirs.
If Original Koran is the one which does't say any thing about Kafirs (Kuffar), then about 3800 verses have to be removed.
Then we will be left with 2436 verses. Of these some verses are of real stupidity, esp. to Shibil, like the one which says Sun sets in mud pond, like the one Mohammad created out of a nice pond before the battle of Badr, so we have to remove this kind too. But how many? Say 500.
Then remaining are about 1936 verses. If we take off repetitions from Koran, suppose one in each four is a repetition, we remove 250. What will be our score now? It is around 1706. Then we 91 verses telling Muslims to follow Mohammad. So remove these too. Now the list has 1615.
So we have Koran of 1615 verses. Hey Muslims should not object because this is a multiple of number 19. (1615 / 19 = 85). See. We have a pattern and so divinely sanctioned.
Now likes of Redd and Shibil will not have any problem from us, but they will have a problem from Osama Bin Laden, Saudi King, President of Iran and Some Ayatollahs in Iran. I guess they have a choice here and it is theirs.
written by Mohammad.A.Khan (Ex-Pakistani muslim) , April 06, 2010
Mr. Wilson, can I ask you why didn't Muhammad had a single child from Aisha ? Please don't tell me, that Muhammad had not children from other wives and concubines too, except Khadijah and Maria.
My another question is, as you deny that hadiths are all misinterpreted and there is no truth in any hadith, do you also deny Muhammad had 9 wives or more?
Mohammad.A.Khan
P.S: I am not the admin of this website
My another question is, as you deny that hadiths are all misinterpreted and there is no truth in any hadith, do you also deny Muhammad had 9 wives or more?
Mohammad.A.Khan
P.S: I am not the admin of this website
written by mirror , April 06, 2010
Muslim Personal Law Board not happpy with Child Marriage ActMumbai: The lawyer for the All India Muslim Personal Law Board on Monday told the Bombay High Court that the board had issues with Prohibition of Child Marriage Act (PCMA).
"We are not happy with this law," said senior counsel Yusuf Muchhala, appearing for AIMPLB. The matter concerns Muslim parents who are facing charges for trying to marry off their 14-years-old girl last year.
The petition filed by Zakia Begum, the girl's mother, seeks quashing of FIR against her, and claims that PCMA is unconstitutional because it interferes with freedom of religion granted by the article 25 of the Constitution. http://www.zeenews.com/news615042.html
Please read the above link. if the Quran was not sanctioning sex / marriage with young girls,then why are the MPLB people protesting against this law saying it prevents them from practicing their religion.Why were so many sheikhs comming to India to marry young girls and divorcing them soon after. Why are people in Saudi Arabia ,Yemen and Iran and even Turkey giving their young daughters in such marriages to much older men.
@ M.A.Khan please put on this page also the picture of a long line of men with their child brides that was put on another page.Are the not Good Muslims do you mean to say that the Saudi Govt. is sanctioning so many apostates to corrupt their religion of'Peace,Justice and Truth'-NOT.
"We are not happy with this law," said senior counsel Yusuf Muchhala, appearing for AIMPLB. The matter concerns Muslim parents who are facing charges for trying to marry off their 14-years-old girl last year.
The petition filed by Zakia Begum, the girl's mother, seeks quashing of FIR against her, and claims that PCMA is unconstitutional because it interferes with freedom of religion granted by the article 25 of the Constitution. http://www.zeenews.com/news615042.html
Please read the above link. if the Quran was not sanctioning sex / marriage with young girls,then why are the MPLB people protesting against this law saying it prevents them from practicing their religion.Why were so many sheikhs comming to India to marry young girls and divorcing them soon after. Why are people in Saudi Arabia ,Yemen and Iran and even Turkey giving their young daughters in such marriages to much older men.
@ M.A.Khan please put on this page also the picture of a long line of men with their child brides that was put on another page.Are the not Good Muslims do you mean to say that the Saudi Govt. is sanctioning so many apostates to corrupt their religion of'Peace,Justice and Truth'-NOT.
written by mirror , April 06, 2010
Are they not Good Muslims do you mean to say that the Saudi Govt. is sanctioning so many apostates to corrupt their religion of'Peace,Justice and Truth'-NOT. These questions are for those who deny that Islam encourages Paedophilia. Even if one has sex with only one child ,one is a Paedophile.Even if on is married to one child ,one is a Paedophile.
Sorry Mr.M.A.Khan for not making it clear to whom these questions are directed at.
Sorry Mr.M.A.Khan for not making it clear to whom these questions are directed at.
written by Machmoed , April 06, 2010
There is no 'correct' Quran, according to you guys...Which is what I suspected all along.
You right about this Duh. The only true, origin, authentic quran is on a table somewhere in heaven. Imagine that that quran also is full of ignorance like we have on earth. At least a goat found it to be delicious when eating a couple of verses. Those verses in heaven are even more delicious because they are not touched by humans and everytime the verses fade away, the table speaks of it's contents....remember that trees and rocks can/could speak according to muslims. This table must be the first thing Allah made...is he a carpenter?.....is he indeed the father of the apostle? is he Jozeph, husband of Maria and the father of jesus.....it could have explained a lot!
You right about this Duh. The only true, origin, authentic quran is on a table somewhere in heaven. Imagine that that quran also is full of ignorance like we have on earth. At least a goat found it to be delicious when eating a couple of verses. Those verses in heaven are even more delicious because they are not touched by humans and everytime the verses fade away, the table speaks of it's contents....remember that trees and rocks can/could speak according to muslims. This table must be the first thing Allah made...is he a carpenter?.....is he indeed the father of the apostle? is he Jozeph, husband of Maria and the father of jesus.....it could have explained a lot!
written by duh_swami , April 06, 2010
To rid Islam of pedophilia, Muslims have to discard the Quran first.
Well, a couple of semi Muslim posters have done just that, but pedophilia still exists...We need to get more Muslims to abandon the entire body of Islamic literature, and throw it on the trash heap of bad ideas. There is no 'real' Quran...There was no 'real' Prophet, all hadith references to him are fake, and there is no 'real' God named Allah...Whenever Muslims quote Quran, they are quoting a fraud...When kufrs quote it, it is to expose the fraud...
Well, a couple of semi Muslim posters have done just that, but pedophilia still exists...We need to get more Muslims to abandon the entire body of Islamic literature, and throw it on the trash heap of bad ideas. There is no 'real' Quran...There was no 'real' Prophet, all hadith references to him are fake, and there is no 'real' God named Allah...Whenever Muslims quote Quran, they are quoting a fraud...When kufrs quote it, it is to expose the fraud...
written by Machmoed , April 06, 2010
If you want to know the real quran and it's contents as it was supposed to be? Then join me at Walt Disney's Donald Duck festival. There you can read some great scriptures and have more truth in them then those devine scriptures. It's quite astonishing..a whole world opened for me. Join me now and see what Donald has in store for you.
written by Reed Wilson , April 06, 2010
To Mohammad. My dear! My dear! My dear! Don't you know me? Why you ask me such questions? I don't even know who Aisha was. I don't know Khadija and Maria. I don't know if he had nine wives. I don't want to know all that either. It is not required. Tell me why it is required, if you think it was required? Allah will not pose the question which you advanced to me.
Aisha, nine wives, Fatma, Ali, children are all Hadith. Should I tell a joke? There are nine wives, 11 wives, 13 wives and 21 wives of Mohmmad according to various Hadiths. I can make a hadith, if it is not already there, that Aisha had kids. When I make a Hadith, they will fight for its authenticity and kill one who will deny it.
You already KNOW that she had uterine problem. There are SCHOLARS who make their living on this kind of knowledge.
Aisha, nine wives, Fatma, Ali, children are all Hadith. Should I tell a joke? There are nine wives, 11 wives, 13 wives and 21 wives of Mohmmad according to various Hadiths. I can make a hadith, if it is not already there, that Aisha had kids. When I make a Hadith, they will fight for its authenticity and kill one who will deny it.
You already KNOW that she had uterine problem. There are SCHOLARS who make their living on this kind of knowledge.
written by Reed Wilson , April 06, 2010
To Machmoed. I am not replying your post captioned Bukhaki. You can find my reply in my posts to Mohammad A Khan who is not editor of the site and who is ex Pakistani.
I hope you will not mind
I hope you will not mind
written by duh_swami , April 06, 2010
...It is not required. Tell me why it is required, if you think it was required? Allah will not pose the question which you advanced to me...
Quran 3:32...Say: "Obey God and His Apostle": But if they turn back, God loveth not those who reject Faith.
So Allah hooks up obedience to his apostle...Muslims must not only obey Allah, but also the apostle...But how are you supposed to obey him, when you don't know what he said or commanded, or much of anything about him?
Are you obeying a phantom? What kind of directions does a phantom provide?
You are divorcing the Prophet Mohammad from Islam...You can do that if you wish because you are not a real Muslim anyway, but no real Muslim is going to throw Mohammad under the bus...At the moment there is only one way to determine what he said and did...The historians, like Ishaq and Tabari, and the compilers of hadith...Without Mohammad, there is no Islam...The entire life of Mohammad is not reflected well in the Quran, but it is in hadith...This is valuable information for those wishing to emulate the Prophet...
Quran 3:32...Say: "Obey God and His Apostle": But if they turn back, God loveth not those who reject Faith.
So Allah hooks up obedience to his apostle...Muslims must not only obey Allah, but also the apostle...But how are you supposed to obey him, when you don't know what he said or commanded, or much of anything about him?
Are you obeying a phantom? What kind of directions does a phantom provide?
You are divorcing the Prophet Mohammad from Islam...You can do that if you wish because you are not a real Muslim anyway, but no real Muslim is going to throw Mohammad under the bus...At the moment there is only one way to determine what he said and did...The historians, like Ishaq and Tabari, and the compilers of hadith...Without Mohammad, there is no Islam...The entire life of Mohammad is not reflected well in the Quran, but it is in hadith...This is valuable information for those wishing to emulate the Prophet...
written by Healer_999 , April 06, 2010
There are 91 verses like that in Koran, 86 of them appear Medina.
That man of illogic and insanity just want to fool around.
That man of illogic and insanity just want to fool around.
written by Shibli Zaman , April 06, 2010
Reed You are blind and refuse to see the evil in Usman's quran.. Usman's corrupted quran justifies some of the most horrific behavior imaginable: pedophilia, incest, rape, torture, assassinations, thievery, mass murder, and terror - all in an unbridled orgy of sex , power, and money. Any one who thinks that this book is word of all knowing kind and compassionate Allah needs to be sent to a mental asylum. As your name indicates you are a convert ,says it all. Only a moron will convert based on this book. When you believe that bible which is a much better written book with chronology and context was altered, why is it so difficult for you to accept that this peace of garbage is not altered by corrupt politicians and kings. A true muslim recognizes the original verses and ignores the usman verses. If Osama Bin Laden did the same he would not be hiding in caves wanted for murder of thousands. People like you believing 100% in this book of violence and hatred has the potential of joining the ranks of killers and suicide bombers .
written by Healer_999 , April 06, 2010
I can understand your capricious attitude with regard to Koran. But for 1400 year both Sunnis and Shias agreed that this is the original copy or word from Allah as it was reveled.
Ali delivered so many sermons from pulpit and these were recorded. Not one of these mentioned such things. The only thing scholars say is Ali's Koran was in chronological order, thats it.
After death of Mohammad, Ali took his Koran to Bakr and Bakr along with Umar he does not need it as every thing was in his heart and brain. But he ordered Zayd to compile Koran. It was during the reign of Bakr it self Koran was brought in to one place. Soon Bakr dies and Umar placed this Koran in Hafsa's house, his daughter.
When the news came to Uthman about differences in Koran in various places he again summoned a committee as Zayd as head. Here all he did was to make copies of the existing one. Once these were made he distributed these and ordered that all other copies should voluntarily be burned down.
There was't even a hint that things changed, it is just you, probably some sect.
Yes a true Muslim recognizes true verse like alif lam mim or some bull shit. Muslims cite these as proof that it is from Allah. What a gullible creed?
Ali delivered so many sermons from pulpit and these were recorded. Not one of these mentioned such things. The only thing scholars say is Ali's Koran was in chronological order, thats it.
After death of Mohammad, Ali took his Koran to Bakr and Bakr along with Umar he does not need it as every thing was in his heart and brain. But he ordered Zayd to compile Koran. It was during the reign of Bakr it self Koran was brought in to one place. Soon Bakr dies and Umar placed this Koran in Hafsa's house, his daughter.
When the news came to Uthman about differences in Koran in various places he again summoned a committee as Zayd as head. Here all he did was to make copies of the existing one. Once these were made he distributed these and ordered that all other copies should voluntarily be burned down.
There was't even a hint that things changed, it is just you, probably some sect.
Yes a true Muslim recognizes true verse like alif lam mim or some bull shit. Muslims cite these as proof that it is from Allah. What a gullible creed?
written by J.K. , April 06, 2010
Reed and Shibli are both are embarassed by murders pedophilia, roberies and rapes of their beloved prophet Mo and sanctions of his evil acts by Allah in in quran.. Reed deals it by rejecting hadiths and Siras and Shibli deals it by reejecting Quran.Basically both are apsotates .
written by Walter Sieruk , April 06, 2010
The German author,Salomon Reinach, wrote of the Quran that "It is humiliating to the human intellect to think that this mediocre literature has been the subject of innumererable commentaries and that millions of men are wasting time in absorbing it." - [Source ANATOMY OF THE QURAN by G.J.O. Moshay p.150,151.]
written by duh_swami , April 06, 2010
According to sharia, this is the case...isn't that great? But actually they are partial apostates because they are still hanging on to Allah... Now if they will just let go of the Arabic notion of Allah as God, they would be complete apostates...But they are close enough for punishment if they get discovered in a country that practices death or other punishments for apostasy...
written by Healer_999 , April 06, 2010
Every Indian Hindu must read this book. He (Mr MA Khan) did an excellent job by quoting from Muslim sources. But I know you will find it difficult to read and digest about how women and children were taken as slaves and you might even be disturbed. But that can not be a valid reason. He even shows that with slaves from India, price of slaves came down miserably.
I did not understand why he referred to Akbar as apostate.
Other thing is I can not understand how he missed the conquest of Persia and those brutal wars right after Mohammad's death. Probably he wanted to emphasize on India.
It is real shame on those people in India who say Muslims settled in India and became people of land unlike British. I guess they have forgotten basic human aspects or may be they are political statements. But too much political correctness only aggravates the problem and can even create a new one.
I am yet to complete the book, I just read chapters with regard to India.
But I decided to distribute some copies (at least 5) and donate one to my school.
I did not understand why he referred to Akbar as apostate.
Other thing is I can not understand how he missed the conquest of Persia and those brutal wars right after Mohammad's death. Probably he wanted to emphasize on India.
It is real shame on those people in India who say Muslims settled in India and became people of land unlike British. I guess they have forgotten basic human aspects or may be they are political statements. But too much political correctness only aggravates the problem and can even create a new one.
I am yet to complete the book, I just read chapters with regard to India.
But I decided to distribute some copies (at least 5) and donate one to my school.
written by Demsci , April 06, 2010
From our perspective; We know what Democratic values and rules are, and if we are in doubt or disagreement, we can propose changes and variations, we can talk about them, make decisions and stick to them. We are reasonable clear and united about our values and rules, but not bound for eternity to them.
But a part of the Muslims wanted Islam to be eventually supreme over democracy and that was threathening to us. Moreover a part of Muslims already let Islam be supreme in 56 Islamic countries and democrats saw religious minorities and women much oppressed there. And since large groups of Muslims migrated to Democratic countries, bringing their habits and mindsets with them, that became troublesome to many democrats. Especially since a part of their supreme guiding texts were troublesome but totally immutable.
Because of this opposition against Islam was mounted, especially in 21st century, after 9/11. For the 1st time in history, thanks largely to the Internet and the English language, Quran + Hadiths were scrutinized, heavily criticized on facts, logic, morality etc. on a huge, international scale.
But up until recently everybody, pro or contra, at least could count on the validity (indeed immutability) for Muslims of Quran + at least the Sahih Hadith. Only there already was massive confusion and division on how to interpret and practice their teachings.
But then we heard of Quran-only-Muslims, who reacted to the embarrassment Muslims felt about the bad deeds and teachings of Muhammad in the Hadiths. And now a pious Muslim, Shibli, also calls the current Quran in question! Also clearly because of embarrassment about stupid or morally bad verses in it. He says it is not complete and altered and corrupt added verses are in it! So Quran can be sorted out, followed in a different way later, maybe. And Hadiths ditto.
I think these are results of reactions of Muslims on the scrutiny and criticism and ridicule of Islam by the outsiders, especially the very knowledgeable, not to be fooled anymore, ex-muslims. What more can the future bring if this continues?
Can it even be established what Islam really teaches, what it's established holy texts are and are NOT, precisely from A to Z? Can some authority tell us how all this should or should not be interpreted? To which authority then the vast majority of its followers will adhere? And when after clarity and consensus of Muslims there are still those Muslims that deviate from the clear norm can the authorities and majority of Muslims then denounce and reject these deviators???
As Islam now stands it looks like a mess. Muslims don't want to be held accountable by what other Muslims do, not even by what their own holy texts ARE, not even what the mainstream, binding interpretations on important issues are, it seems. At the same time they still are loyal to the Ummah, the worldwide Islamic community, still supporting or condoning many dictatorial and violent Muslims, in a way that Westerners can't be reasonably expected to trust this Ummah, I think.
In view of all this confusion, division among Muslims, why don't they become more humble and modest, concentrating on some private religion only, relinquishing any political ambitions to power anywhere, even in the now still Islamic countries?
They should either come up with some united, clear ideology and pursue that by their vast majority or else submit to democratic rules and values everywhere and reject and fight those who still want some vaque, uncertain, multi-interpretational "Islam" to dominate anywhere! And find some way to build much more reasonabe trust among Democratic peoples everywhere as now.
But a part of the Muslims wanted Islam to be eventually supreme over democracy and that was threathening to us. Moreover a part of Muslims already let Islam be supreme in 56 Islamic countries and democrats saw religious minorities and women much oppressed there. And since large groups of Muslims migrated to Democratic countries, bringing their habits and mindsets with them, that became troublesome to many democrats. Especially since a part of their supreme guiding texts were troublesome but totally immutable.
Because of this opposition against Islam was mounted, especially in 21st century, after 9/11. For the 1st time in history, thanks largely to the Internet and the English language, Quran + Hadiths were scrutinized, heavily criticized on facts, logic, morality etc. on a huge, international scale.
But up until recently everybody, pro or contra, at least could count on the validity (indeed immutability) for Muslims of Quran + at least the Sahih Hadith. Only there already was massive confusion and division on how to interpret and practice their teachings.
But then we heard of Quran-only-Muslims, who reacted to the embarrassment Muslims felt about the bad deeds and teachings of Muhammad in the Hadiths. And now a pious Muslim, Shibli, also calls the current Quran in question! Also clearly because of embarrassment about stupid or morally bad verses in it. He says it is not complete and altered and corrupt added verses are in it! So Quran can be sorted out, followed in a different way later, maybe. And Hadiths ditto.
I think these are results of reactions of Muslims on the scrutiny and criticism and ridicule of Islam by the outsiders, especially the very knowledgeable, not to be fooled anymore, ex-muslims. What more can the future bring if this continues?
Can it even be established what Islam really teaches, what it's established holy texts are and are NOT, precisely from A to Z? Can some authority tell us how all this should or should not be interpreted? To which authority then the vast majority of its followers will adhere? And when after clarity and consensus of Muslims there are still those Muslims that deviate from the clear norm can the authorities and majority of Muslims then denounce and reject these deviators???
As Islam now stands it looks like a mess. Muslims don't want to be held accountable by what other Muslims do, not even by what their own holy texts ARE, not even what the mainstream, binding interpretations on important issues are, it seems. At the same time they still are loyal to the Ummah, the worldwide Islamic community, still supporting or condoning many dictatorial and violent Muslims, in a way that Westerners can't be reasonably expected to trust this Ummah, I think.
In view of all this confusion, division among Muslims, why don't they become more humble and modest, concentrating on some private religion only, relinquishing any political ambitions to power anywhere, even in the now still Islamic countries?
They should either come up with some united, clear ideology and pursue that by their vast majority or else submit to democratic rules and values everywhere and reject and fight those who still want some vaque, uncertain, multi-interpretational "Islam" to dominate anywhere! And find some way to build much more reasonabe trust among Democratic peoples everywhere as now.
written by Reed Wilson , April 07, 2010
To duh-swami. You have quoted “Quran 3:32...Say: "Obey God and His Apostle": But if they turn back, God loveth not those who reject Faith”. This is obeying the messenger not obeying the narrators like Bukhari, Maja, Nisai, Darmi and all others. Moreover, as I have earlier submitted at times, that obeying and following are two things. Obeying requires the presence of the person whom to be obeyed. Quran says Allah only should be followed 10:35. One follows Allah by following his messengers and his message.
Ibne Ishaq, Tabri and the compilers are all to be rejected. Not needed. Where is Ibne Ishaq? We don’t find his book. These all are mushrooms of 3rd and 4th century. They didn't know the messenger.
I hope Mohammad A Khan will agree with my post.
Ibne Ishaq, Tabri and the compilers are all to be rejected. Not needed. Where is Ibne Ishaq? We don’t find his book. These all are mushrooms of 3rd and 4th century. They didn't know the messenger.
I hope Mohammad A Khan will agree with my post.
written by COMMON SENCE , April 07, 2010
Your analysis of todays Islam amd Muslims is absolutely correct, but honestly you cannot blame muslims as a general. I think all the Ruling Families in Islamic countries know that Islam, quran, hadith are useless and these have no relevance or practicality in todays modern civilised world, but the problem is, if they anounce this fact they cannot rule anymore.
Asking muslims to denounce islam, quran will not help. untill and unless the devil dragons (Islamic rulers) are defeated and removed.
Asking muslims to denounce islam, quran will not help. untill and unless the devil dragons (Islamic rulers) are defeated and removed.
written by Healer_999 , April 07, 2010
Where is the evidence that Koran is Koran? Where is the evidence that Koran was reveled to man through some boogie by Allah? Where is the evidence that this actually happened?
written by Reed Wilson , April 07, 2010
Shibli. You are parroting the same rosary of uthman’s Quran, pedophilia rape torture assassinations, murder sex which is all done and over. If I am blind, you will not answer my questions?
When did I say that Bible was altered? How you say that I am convert.
Please don’t side track and answer my questions. Otherwise I am justified to assume that you don’t know them. Are you a clergy? What is your profession?
When did I say that Bible was altered? How you say that I am convert.
Please don’t side track and answer my questions. Otherwise I am justified to assume that you don’t know them. Are you a clergy? What is your profession?
written by kabir , April 07, 2010
healer-999,
I happened to be reading Mr Khan's book right now. I feel so sick and ashamed that I read wrong history books until now, written by meek minds, the slaves of 1200 years of Islamic imperislism, fears and guilts. Staying silent and politically correct seem a sin to me. I am running around in my house like a mad man and feel like banging my head in the walls. why we Indians never wrote and spoke the truth? Why? Why? Why?
I happened to be reading Mr Khan's book right now. I feel so sick and ashamed that I read wrong history books until now, written by meek minds, the slaves of 1200 years of Islamic imperislism, fears and guilts. Staying silent and politically correct seem a sin to me. I am running around in my house like a mad man and feel like banging my head in the walls. why we Indians never wrote and spoke the truth? Why? Why? Why?
written by Reed Wilson , April 07, 2010
To Kabir. I have also been saying that history should not be relied upon. Now another history book comes."I am running around in my house like a mad man and feel like banging my head in the walls. why we Indians never wrote and spoke the truth? Why? Why? Why? I wish you find a reply.
I am of the belief that history cannot be truth. Wait for the time machine.The stupid human influence has its role.
I wish to read MAKhan's book.
I am of the belief that history cannot be truth. Wait for the time machine.The stupid human influence has its role.
I wish to read MAKhan's book.
written by Reed Wilson , April 07, 2010
duh_swami.
You are right "if they get discovered in a country that practices death or other punishments for apostasy". Have you seen the fate of Sharia countries? They are in the process of degeneration. Sharia is a disease caused by Hadith virus. Quran condemns Sharia.
You are right "if they get discovered in a country that practices death or other punishments for apostasy". Have you seen the fate of Sharia countries? They are in the process of degeneration. Sharia is a disease caused by Hadith virus. Quran condemns Sharia.
written by Healer_999 , April 07, 2010
Thank Nehru and undemocratic English language for all these. Then we had communists and left liberals who mostly graduated from colleges of UK.
Some Communists sensed that Communism might never come in India so they switched loyalty to Nehru family, not to India or Congress party and gained appointments in key positions like in institutes of Historical research and NCERT and CBSE. As they were educated in English and abroad they had much better skills in communications, with this they won the day.
That is precisely I always say English has a huge negative impact on our society. They supported this kind in the name of diversity, but to deal with diversity decentralization is the answer, not foreign elements, even today states do not have complete powers.
This is how filth has started.
Some Communists sensed that Communism might never come in India so they switched loyalty to Nehru family, not to India or Congress party and gained appointments in key positions like in institutes of Historical research and NCERT and CBSE. As they were educated in English and abroad they had much better skills in communications, with this they won the day.
That is precisely I always say English has a huge negative impact on our society. They supported this kind in the name of diversity, but to deal with diversity decentralization is the answer, not foreign elements, even today states do not have complete powers.
This is how filth has started.
written by pigislam is stupid and kroan is pigwaste , April 07, 2010
i am a student of astronomy from a good reputed
govt owned/grant college in india.i was gifted a koran
in english by a muslim friend,who also is a student of science
and i read it.he told me it is the word of his deity,and it
shows how world was created etc.
no mention of fusion of hydrogen,no mention of
any real scieitific stuff incl evolution.and the book is boring to
read,but i am afraid,if i criticise it i maybe killed.
no mention of plate tectonics,dinosauraus etc....
why the f do we still have religion around ????
does religion actually serve any pourpose in today's
world ??
i mean...1400 years ago,illitrate arabs created myths based on stories
hey heard from some other cultures,but today how can one follow
this bible,koran etc ???
truly religion is a waste of time.
written by Reed Wilson , April 07, 2010
Mr. Khan, you write in your article “Status of hadith in Islam: Some uneducated or half-educated moderate Muslims have lately questioned the reliability and relevance of hadith in Islam. They are ignorant that Allah, the Islamic God, commands Muslims in more than dozen verses in the Quran to “follow Me (i.e. Allah’s commands as in the Quran) and My apostle (i.e. Muhammad, or his actions and lifestyle as depicted in the hadith, pious sira and the Quran)” (see Q 3:32, 4:13,59,69, 5:92, 8.1,20,46, 33:33, 47:33, 49:14, 58:13 64:12 etc”. 'Following' is the wrong translation of the verses. This is ‘obeying’ the messenger not obeying the narrators like Bukhari, Maja, Nisai, Darmi and all others. Moreover, as I have earlier submitted at times, that obeying and following are two different things. Obeying requires the presence of the person whom to be obeyed. Quran says Allah only should be followed 10:35. One follows Allah by following his messengers and his message.
You rightly mention that” You openly reject or condemn the hadith in a Muslim country, you will invite death. This is not a good thing and should be condemned
You rightly mention that” You openly reject or condemn the hadith in a Muslim country, you will invite death. This is not a good thing and should be condemned
written by Truth Seeker , April 07, 2010
History is NOT FALSE.
History is mostly written from a victor's point of view.
There are chances that it may be written with slight distortions.
BUT FACTS ARE ALWAYS FACTS.
I came across an interesting article today. Read this
http://theopinionator.typepad....sible.html
written by kafir , April 07, 2010
to : truthseeker :
pls note,history maybe true or false.truth is also different from
history,bcoz muslims who r victorious claim to be superior but
it is known that they created their own false history to suit
their hateful pourpose.
written by duh_swami , April 07, 2010
Obeying requires the presence of the person whom to be obeyed.
A Muslim must 'obey' the dictates in the Quran, because it is a living book and Allah is always present for believers (you do believe that, don't you Reed?), but only 'follow' the orders of Mohammad because he's a dead guy and not in our presence....And then as most of his orders are from hadith, and the hadith is invalid, there is very little about Mohammad anyone should be following...So according to Reed Wilson, most of Islamic literature, most of Islams religious and political structure, and most of Mohammad's orders, are invalid...The Quran can't be trusted due to meddling, the hadith are fake, sharia law is based on falsehoods, and most of what Mohammad said can't be trusted and has no value...
I can go for all that, but I am kufr...
You 'can' get yourself killed or injured if you spout that stuff at the wrong time, in the wrong place...I would suspect that you live either in UK or the US, the US being the most likely...But no matter where you live, it's probably a good idea that you do stay away from mosques...
A Muslim must 'obey' the dictates in the Quran, because it is a living book and Allah is always present for believers (you do believe that, don't you Reed?), but only 'follow' the orders of Mohammad because he's a dead guy and not in our presence....And then as most of his orders are from hadith, and the hadith is invalid, there is very little about Mohammad anyone should be following...So according to Reed Wilson, most of Islamic literature, most of Islams religious and political structure, and most of Mohammad's orders, are invalid...The Quran can't be trusted due to meddling, the hadith are fake, sharia law is based on falsehoods, and most of what Mohammad said can't be trusted and has no value...
I can go for all that, but I am kufr...
You 'can' get yourself killed or injured if you spout that stuff at the wrong time, in the wrong place...I would suspect that you live either in UK or the US, the US being the most likely...But no matter where you live, it's probably a good idea that you do stay away from mosques...
written by fineliving56 , April 07, 2010
I know who you feel, I too am going maaaaaad ......when is it going to stop?...... I have't read Mr Khan's book yet but I am mad at myself cause I was reading the wrong books . it is a sin to keep silent and lately I am not ,I am causing an uproar in my family . After I announced my rejection of islam as my realign , my husband was upset but he told me to keep quiet for my safety even here in the US . My brain washed daughter was another story . She was choking with her anger after saying who dare I become an atheist ,I told her I do not know about that yet but I do not condone killing , raping,cutting arms and legs,thieving, womanizing, etc.........then she said ''all lies agents islam ''then I said take your head out of islam sand ''then she said ''do you know who crazy I look and sound '' then I told her to leave and we not talking now .
Sad but it had to be done . Not you Endian just did not tell the truth it's all of us from every country in the world we had a cover on our eyes made of fear , miss placed loyalties , rejection , stupid nostalgia etc......
at least in my situation . We should stick together and keep writing in this wonderful site I have no were to go but here...... this is the medicine ..... the Quran will be in a museum some day with the rest of useless stuff ....THE WORLD WILL CHANGE .
Sad but it had to be done . Not you Endian just did not tell the truth it's all of us from every country in the world we had a cover on our eyes made of fear , miss placed loyalties , rejection , stupid nostalgia etc......
at least in my situation . We should stick together and keep writing in this wonderful site I have no were to go but here...... this is the medicine ..... the Quran will be in a museum some day with the rest of useless stuff ....THE WORLD WILL CHANGE .
written by Mulhid , April 07, 2010
The Shi'a filthy criminal Ruhollah Khomeini was a promoter of paedophilia (eagerly following his filthy bogus prophet Muhammad ibn Abdullah):
"It is highly recommended that a girl be married off as soon as she reaches the age of puberty. One of the blessings of man is to have his daughter experience her first period not in her father's house, bur in that of her husband."
This quote is from a slim volume, containing translations into English of extracts from three major books by Khomeini: Valayate-Faghih (The Kingdom of the Learned), Kashfal-Asrar (The Key to Mysteries), Towzihol-Masael (The Explanatio of Problems).
This horrible shit is now the dominating delusion ruling an ancient people who used to be one of the first civilized societies in history.
"It is highly recommended that a girl be married off as soon as she reaches the age of puberty. One of the blessings of man is to have his daughter experience her first period not in her father's house, bur in that of her husband."
This quote is from a slim volume, containing translations into English of extracts from three major books by Khomeini: Valayate-Faghih (The Kingdom of the Learned), Kashfal-Asrar (The Key to Mysteries), Towzihol-Masael (The Explanatio of Problems).
This horrible shit is now the dominating delusion ruling an ancient people who used to be one of the first civilized societies in history.
written by Healer_999 , April 07, 2010
You should be careful, I hope your husband is bit moderate.
written by fineliving56 , April 07, 2010
He is moderate just like the rest of muslim moderates they are ignorant of real islam the fanatic islam .
Now I know there is two kind of islam .....1- blissfuly ignorant 2- deceivingly knowledgeable .
Now I know there is two kind of islam .....1- blissfuly ignorant 2- deceivingly knowledgeable .
written by duh_swami , April 07, 2010
What you say has merit (1- blissfuly ignorant 2- deceivingly knowledgeable) , but I am of the 'pious Muslims are the only real Muslims', point of view...But you can never tell when a 'blissful ignorant' can turn into a 'deceivingly knowledgeable', or even a violent...There is no way to determine this ahead of time...That's what a SJS is, 'Sudden Jihad Syndrome'...Where a previously peaceful Muslim suddenly and with no logical reason, launches his own jihad. There have been a number of these SJS attacks in the US...and else where...
There are many ways to jihad...not all of them are violent...There are verbal, and intellectual taqiyya artist jihadists, who post here regularly...I don't need to name them, as you are smart enough to figure it out yourself...
written by fineliving56 , April 07, 2010
I had to look up [ pious] English is my second language as you can tell . You absolutely right pious muslims are out there hidden under the surface but I believe in change and the taqiyya intellectuals who post here going to be obsolete in coming years thanks to every one who is trying here . I have to say I am enjoying all the finny dissections even if it is about series subject
written by Jibril , April 07, 2010
Dear M.A. Khan,
Great article. It will be more bullet proof if you includes tafseers of Q 65:4. Here they are:
Al-Jalalayn's tafseer of Q 65:4
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=1&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=65&tAyahNo=4&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2
==========================
Ibn Kathir's tafseer of Q 65:4 says so too:
http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=65&tid=54223
The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses
Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. [see 2:228] The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying;
==========================
Ibn Abbas' tafseer of Q 65:4
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=2&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=65&tAyahNo=4&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3632/tafsiribnabbasq654.jpg
All Qur'an experts reveal the same explanation of Q 65:4. It is true then that in Islam, pedophilia is HALAL.
Great article. It will be more bullet proof if you includes tafseers of Q 65:4. Here they are:
Al-Jalalayn's tafseer of Q 65:4
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=1&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=65&tAyahNo=4&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2
==========================
Ibn Kathir's tafseer of Q 65:4 says so too:
http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=65&tid=54223
The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses
Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. [see 2:228] The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying;
==========================
Ibn Abbas' tafseer of Q 65:4
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=2&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=65&tAyahNo=4&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3632/tafsiribnabbasq654.jpg
All Qur'an experts reveal the same explanation of Q 65:4. It is true then that in Islam, pedophilia is HALAL.
written by Demsci , April 07, 2010
I too believe that the pious Muslims are the only real Muslims and that the rest are blissfully ignorant of their faith. Of course the situation is complex but that's it in a nutshell. And the vast majority of Westerners are blissfully ignorant of Islam too.
Muslims demand in the West total freedom of religion. They act as if criticizing on Islam is racist and hate-speech. As if adhering to Islam is not their choice but their "tribe". Both Muslims and blissfully ignorant Westerners demand from us that we refrain from getting to know Islam and compare it's rules and values with our own Democratic rules and values. And to see where they are in contradiction of each other, on a worldwide scale. And to see to which Muslims are primarily loyal to, Democracy or Islam, when they contradict.
But if we still do that, that we then refrain from any judgement of bad influence and danger from Islam. We are only allowed to conclude that Islam MUST be innocent, inconsequential. Because to conclude otherwise, even about a PART of Islam and even as a POSSIBILITY, would according to them already mean infringement on freedom of religion and racism against people who "happen" to believe in Islam. As opposed to who "have deliberately chosen" to believe in it.
And to discriminate against people who "happen" to believe in Islam, in government-policy and measures, like not allowing Islamic schools or limit immigration of Muslims or studying and highlighting the differences in Democratic and Islamic values and rules, well, all that is presented as completely off limits and maligned as racism, discrimination and hate-speech.
Muslims who live between Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists enjoy full equal rights, and the right to proselytize and receive converts from the other faiths. And these Muslims are not even seeing, let alone, addressing and condemning, the manifest unjust situation that under the rule of Muslims these other groups are oppressed and not allowed to receive converts from Islam. But to say something about that is also considered as being racist and hate-speech.
But thanks to Islam Watch, Jihad Watch, FFI and many other great websites the teachings and behavior of Muslims worldwide will be closely monitored and judged and because of that this unbalanced and unjust situation will be addressed ever better, ever higher in government. And Islam will be identified as in part and as a high probability as dangerous and detrimental and accordingly measures will be taken eventually.
Muslims demand in the West total freedom of religion. They act as if criticizing on Islam is racist and hate-speech. As if adhering to Islam is not their choice but their "tribe". Both Muslims and blissfully ignorant Westerners demand from us that we refrain from getting to know Islam and compare it's rules and values with our own Democratic rules and values. And to see where they are in contradiction of each other, on a worldwide scale. And to see to which Muslims are primarily loyal to, Democracy or Islam, when they contradict.
But if we still do that, that we then refrain from any judgement of bad influence and danger from Islam. We are only allowed to conclude that Islam MUST be innocent, inconsequential. Because to conclude otherwise, even about a PART of Islam and even as a POSSIBILITY, would according to them already mean infringement on freedom of religion and racism against people who "happen" to believe in Islam. As opposed to who "have deliberately chosen" to believe in it.
And to discriminate against people who "happen" to believe in Islam, in government-policy and measures, like not allowing Islamic schools or limit immigration of Muslims or studying and highlighting the differences in Democratic and Islamic values and rules, well, all that is presented as completely off limits and maligned as racism, discrimination and hate-speech.
Muslims who live between Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists enjoy full equal rights, and the right to proselytize and receive converts from the other faiths. And these Muslims are not even seeing, let alone, addressing and condemning, the manifest unjust situation that under the rule of Muslims these other groups are oppressed and not allowed to receive converts from Islam. But to say something about that is also considered as being racist and hate-speech.
But thanks to Islam Watch, Jihad Watch, FFI and many other great websites the teachings and behavior of Muslims worldwide will be closely monitored and judged and because of that this unbalanced and unjust situation will be addressed ever better, ever higher in government. And Islam will be identified as in part and as a high probability as dangerous and detrimental and accordingly measures will be taken eventually.
written by Sisha , April 07, 2010
to Healer_999 : you said "Thank Nehru and undemocratic English language for all these. Then we had communists and left liberals who mostly graduated from colleges of UK. "
I agree with what you said about nehru and the communists/socialists who are in charge of History and Text-book writing at NCERT and the Universities;but I don't accept your take on the English Language.Rajaji had said English is Saraswati's gift to Modern India. Without English ,we would not be able to communicate with the rest of the world leave alone in India.Having Many languages we must all learn languages other than our Mother Tongue. In india this has always been true. Each of our languages are beautiful and have wonderful pearls of wisdoms .We must not let parochialism stand in our way of facing and accepting the truth.
I agree with what you said about nehru and the communists/socialists who are in charge of History and Text-book writing at NCERT and the Universities;but I don't accept your take on the English Language.Rajaji had said English is Saraswati's gift to Modern India. Without English ,we would not be able to communicate with the rest of the world leave alone in India.Having Many languages we must all learn languages other than our Mother Tongue. In india this has always been true. Each of our languages are beautiful and have wonderful pearls of wisdoms .We must not let parochialism stand in our way of facing and accepting the truth.
written by Helaer_999 , April 08, 2010
Why should I bother with what Rajaji said? Saraswathi's gift should be knowledge not a language which is a medium for acquiring it and and disseminating it. Still it is a important part.
My problem with English is it has let few people take every thing in to their own hands. Consider our news media. You will get the finest answer. Over all share of English media is nothing compared to that of Media in other languages. But English media consider them selves the righteous because they espouse the cause of secularism, they are more successful in influencing the policies of Govt.
Other thing is to communicate with outer world do we have to impose this language on masses. Not needed. Is Japan forcing English on its people?
I already explained the answer for diversity is decentralization not imposing a alien language. Just look at our law system and functioning of courts. It tells every thing.
Considering the diversity they (Policy makers) should have given the highest importance to education, from primary to higher. But we don't see this. With their thinking in English, their logic too suffers, they can no longer ask themselves relevant questions, a vital discipline for formulating policies. They can not step them selves in to shoes of majority population to understand them, because people who do not English are illiterate or semi illiterate.
All that these English policy makers can do is listen from world bank and IMF in English and follow them by changing little to fool the masses that they were indigenous policies. You can not blame World Bank or IMF, we have to blame ourselves.
I am not against English, but we can not deny that it did a immense damage to our nation. I am not for banning it either, it should be taught, but it can not be replacement for natural language.
Why is it that we do not have Medical courses and Engineering courses in our languages, remember asking this question does not mean that English should be banned. It should be taught, but teaching these vital technical courses in our languages will have much bigger benefits, it increases the boundary. This is the first benefit.
My problem with English is it has let few people take every thing in to their own hands. Consider our news media. You will get the finest answer. Over all share of English media is nothing compared to that of Media in other languages. But English media consider them selves the righteous because they espouse the cause of secularism, they are more successful in influencing the policies of Govt.
Other thing is to communicate with outer world do we have to impose this language on masses. Not needed. Is Japan forcing English on its people?
I already explained the answer for diversity is decentralization not imposing a alien language. Just look at our law system and functioning of courts. It tells every thing.
Considering the diversity they (Policy makers) should have given the highest importance to education, from primary to higher. But we don't see this. With their thinking in English, their logic too suffers, they can no longer ask themselves relevant questions, a vital discipline for formulating policies. They can not step them selves in to shoes of majority population to understand them, because people who do not English are illiterate or semi illiterate.
All that these English policy makers can do is listen from world bank and IMF in English and follow them by changing little to fool the masses that they were indigenous policies. You can not blame World Bank or IMF, we have to blame ourselves.
I am not against English, but we can not deny that it did a immense damage to our nation. I am not for banning it either, it should be taught, but it can not be replacement for natural language.
Why is it that we do not have Medical courses and Engineering courses in our languages, remember asking this question does not mean that English should be banned. It should be taught, but teaching these vital technical courses in our languages will have much bigger benefits, it increases the boundary. This is the first benefit.
written by MA Khan , April 08, 2010
Thanks Kabir for reading my book.
It's truly heart-breaking, indeed maddening, to read what happened to our ancestors at the hands of Muslim invaders, and more shamefully, we have been proud of it.
It's truly heart-breaking, indeed maddening, to read what happened to our ancestors at the hands of Muslim invaders, and more shamefully, we have been proud of it.
written by MA Khan , April 08, 2010
I included Indian history in the main in my book, "Islamic Jihad", because detailed history of every place Islam conquered is too huge to accomodate in a volume like this. I have also emphasized that what happened in India was much more mild than what happened elsewhere.
My intention was to make the book easily readable, unlike most hisotry books, while it will also give an overall idea of how humanity suffered at the hands of Islam. I believe knowing India's sufferance in detail, readers would be able to make a grasp of sufferance elsewhere.
My intention was to make the book easily readable, unlike most hisotry books, while it will also give an overall idea of how humanity suffered at the hands of Islam. I believe knowing India's sufferance in detail, readers would be able to make a grasp of sufferance elsewhere.
written by fineliving56 , April 08, 2010
I have a question .....
why the picture of the mass wedding, disappeared in this article?
I was on Al Jazeera website and that very video the picture came from was the one I watched and the news anker spoke the hall time without saying anything about those little girls walking next to those men getting married I found it very strange cause Al Jazeera
would have said something ....do't you think so ?
I know my country's costumes, real bride stay in side... only women aloud in secluded big room .....and little girls in wedding
dresses aloud to go out with every one
that led me to think that those girls are nothing but little sister and such ....not brides !!!! may be it is only a mistake of some sort
I really like to know if it's true
truth is what we are looking here right ?
why the picture of the mass wedding, disappeared in this article?
I was on Al Jazeera website and that very video the picture came from was the one I watched and the news anker spoke the hall time without saying anything about those little girls walking next to those men getting married I found it very strange cause Al Jazeera
would have said something ....do't you think so ?
I know my country's costumes, real bride stay in side... only women aloud in secluded big room .....and little girls in wedding
dresses aloud to go out with every one
that led me to think that those girls are nothing but little sister and such ....not brides !!!! may be it is only a mistake of some sort
I really like to know if it's true
truth is what we are looking here right ?
written by Walter Sieruk , April 08, 2010
Of the "scientific" Quran, this book fits into the old flat earth mentality. Because in Sura 18:85-98 it reads of Alexander the Great [Zul-garnaim] who undertook to find out were the sun goes at night. So he followed the sun and reached the end of the world were it went down under the murky water of a pond. As it submerged under the murky water darkness came upon the earth. this also shows how small Muhammad thought the sun is. Further, this also shows the old belief that the sun went arount the earth and that the earth didn't go around the sun. In sum, by its own words the Quran has proven itself to be an unscientific and primitive hoax.
written by healer_999 , April 08, 2010
I understood that regarding India and its relatively less suffering. But the way I understood or at least tried to analyze or understand how such a magnificent civilization like Persia fell to these barbarians (later it behaved like one, which is another thing). It was not a pacifist society like India.
Other thing is what I learned is extraordinary and painful when I read that ethnic composition of Iranians says that only 52% percent of Iranians are Persians. I thought it must mean that extra ordinary incidents must have happened in Iran.
I expected to read some thing on this line from your book,
but I was bit surprised and disappointed.
But you are absolutely right that every thing can not be fit in to this book esp. keeping in view of its well intentions and realization that people are averse to reading big volumes (I say this firmly).
Just out of curiosity I want to ask this, have you ever been contacted by any Historian from our stupid country. This stupid country's entire History is written and controlled by a group of 42 people, according to Arun Shourie. Dean of this group is Mrs. Romila Thapar. Rather writing all these I will just paste a review of book bt Arun Shourie. I hope you will tolerate this pasting for this one time.
Other thing is did you self publish your book like Arun Shourie has to do? It looks like that to me. very sad.
Other thing is what I learned is extraordinary and painful when I read that ethnic composition of Iranians says that only 52% percent of Iranians are Persians. I thought it must mean that extra ordinary incidents must have happened in Iran.
I expected to read some thing on this line from your book,
but I was bit surprised and disappointed.
But you are absolutely right that every thing can not be fit in to this book esp. keeping in view of its well intentions and realization that people are averse to reading big volumes (I say this firmly).
Just out of curiosity I want to ask this, have you ever been contacted by any Historian from our stupid country. This stupid country's entire History is written and controlled by a group of 42 people, according to Arun Shourie. Dean of this group is Mrs. Romila Thapar. Rather writing all these I will just paste a review of book bt Arun Shourie. I hope you will tolerate this pasting for this one time.
Other thing is did you self publish your book like Arun Shourie has to do? It looks like that to me. very sad.
written by Shibli Zaman , April 08, 2010
My reasons of argument are many hadiths which indicate that Usman's quran missed a lot of verses,the commitee compiled quran based on testimonies and what they recovered from writings on stones, bones and leaves and that one of the reasons Usman was killed was that many sahabas accused him of changing quran. I am not accusising Usman alone for corrupting and truncating quran , I believe Ummayad and Abbasid kings also corrupted it. The early quran recovered from Sanaa deciphered by Dr Puin is different from current quran. The quranic verses engraved on Baitul Muqaddas in Jersusalem are also missing from current quran. The combination of these facts along with the filth in current quran makes me believe what I believe. I believe that a compassionate all knowing fair and kind Allah would not be allowing it's prophet to kill rape rob,practice pedophilia practice incest and call all humanity to take him as example and follow him. That is the reason I am 100% sure that this is a corrupted truncated quran and muslims like Reed Wilson, Osama Bin Laden etc need to have their head examined to take this book 100% word of Allah. The difference between them is that Bin Laden acts on it and Reed Wilson stickis his head in sand.
written by healer_999 , April 08, 2010
I decided to provide the link rather pasting, but I hope admin of this site will put it up for general reader ship. It is only a re-view, so there will be no violation of copy rights.
The books name is: EMINENT HISTORIANS: Their Technology, Their Line, Their Fraud By Arun Shourie.
Published in 1998. ASA Publications, New Delhi.
Reviewed by CJS Wallia.
This is the link to the re-view. (Hindus must read from this link, it gives more insight in to our country is managed)
http://www.indiastar.com/wallia19.html
The books name is: EMINENT HISTORIANS: Their Technology, Their Line, Their Fraud By Arun Shourie.
Published in 1998. ASA Publications, New Delhi.
Reviewed by CJS Wallia.
This is the link to the re-view. (Hindus must read from this link, it gives more insight in to our country is managed)
http://www.indiastar.com/wallia19.html
written by healer_999 , April 08, 2010
I respected you when you said that those kind of things like taking captives and using them slaves for sex or other things was grossly wrong and cruelty.
I still respect you for that.
But you want to hold on to your other views, it is your right. No one can deny you that. At least you see the reason and what is right in front of your eyes.
My guess was probably you must have read the Holy Koran for the first time and probably been aggrieved and hurt. It is only a guess.
Any way, I am busy right now, I will reply to you later.
I still respect you for that.
But you want to hold on to your other views, it is your right. No one can deny you that. At least you see the reason and what is right in front of your eyes.
My guess was probably you must have read the Holy Koran for the first time and probably been aggrieved and hurt. It is only a guess.
Any way, I am busy right now, I will reply to you later.
written by Kabir , April 08, 2010
Dear Mr Khan,
Many thanks for your reply. You book is indeed an Eye Opener. It must have been so difficult for you to write this book and such a nightmare it must have been to overcome the manipulative atmosphere around you where you spent your early life. But that's what we call learning I guess.
You are a true Indian and every Indian must learn from you. The story does not end with Islam. Though it is the biggest problem but all other religions need fixes and tunings as well in order to shape the grand civilization of India.
I was born in Punjab and my family being the followers of Nanak, have been a regular visitors of Goden Temple. But how many people in Punjab carry the consciousness that the most sacred pool of Golden Temple was filled by Ahmed Shah Abdali with dead bodies and dead cows when he invaded India? If this is what he did to the holy place, image the pogrom he must have carried out across The Punjab!
This is the history that we don't remember and that's the reason most of the people are still uneducated and do no aspire to hold vision for India. A nation that cannot look honestly into it's history cannot have a vision. That is my concern. We don't need to fight by reading history, we just need to emerge stronger, informed and just people so that we can build something original.
Many thanks for your reply. You book is indeed an Eye Opener. It must have been so difficult for you to write this book and such a nightmare it must have been to overcome the manipulative atmosphere around you where you spent your early life. But that's what we call learning I guess.
You are a true Indian and every Indian must learn from you. The story does not end with Islam. Though it is the biggest problem but all other religions need fixes and tunings as well in order to shape the grand civilization of India.
I was born in Punjab and my family being the followers of Nanak, have been a regular visitors of Goden Temple. But how many people in Punjab carry the consciousness that the most sacred pool of Golden Temple was filled by Ahmed Shah Abdali with dead bodies and dead cows when he invaded India? If this is what he did to the holy place, image the pogrom he must have carried out across The Punjab!
This is the history that we don't remember and that's the reason most of the people are still uneducated and do no aspire to hold vision for India. A nation that cannot look honestly into it's history cannot have a vision. That is my concern. We don't need to fight by reading history, we just need to emerge stronger, informed and just people so that we can build something original.
written by Demsci , April 08, 2010
The title of this article begins with "Muslims must discard both Quran and Hadiths ...".
Well, at least a part of the Hadiths can be discarded, that we already knew, but up until now, totally un-negotiable, the Quran was seen as totally sacrosanct. But Shibli Zaman showed he was a truth-seeker and moral person up to a certain extent by reading and absorbing the work of PUIN, the German, which we Kafirs were told about. And he heard about the text in Jerusalem we informed kafirs were told about.
And he did not take the easy way out, by ignoring it, by denying its validity, as the vast majority of Muslims do. And he saw some texts in the Quran revolting to his moral sense. And thought out that this must be due to later alterations, which seems possible according to the evidence now available.
And we have been hearing about that quite a bit now, in articles, and also from Machmoed a lot. But that it would influence a MUSLIM so much! Hats off to you, Shibli Zaman. I for one commend you for being this honest and flexible.
Well, at least a part of the Hadiths can be discarded, that we already knew, but up until now, totally un-negotiable, the Quran was seen as totally sacrosanct. But Shibli Zaman showed he was a truth-seeker and moral person up to a certain extent by reading and absorbing the work of PUIN, the German, which we Kafirs were told about. And he heard about the text in Jerusalem we informed kafirs were told about.
And he did not take the easy way out, by ignoring it, by denying its validity, as the vast majority of Muslims do. And he saw some texts in the Quran revolting to his moral sense. And thought out that this must be due to later alterations, which seems possible according to the evidence now available.
And we have been hearing about that quite a bit now, in articles, and also from Machmoed a lot. But that it would influence a MUSLIM so much! Hats off to you, Shibli Zaman. I for one commend you for being this honest and flexible.
written by duh_swami , April 08, 2010
PUIN...Since the Qur’an claims repeatedly to be clear but is not—there is an obvious and serious contradiction. Something else must be going on.
The problem is that most modern Muslims believe the Quran to be the Holy word(s) of Allah, immutable, for all time, not written by men, and the original resides with Allah in Heaven...
That's a strong sales pitch...it's also very convenient because the original is not available for inspection...So for all practical purposes, it is what it is, and it means what it says, even if some of it is the holy words of Usman or some other culprit.
Demsi...If you haven't read this...you might get something out of it...
Abul Kasem's 'Who authored the Quran'...Free on this site...look under Old site
authors list...I might re-read it myself...
The problem is that most modern Muslims believe the Quran to be the Holy word(s) of Allah, immutable, for all time, not written by men, and the original resides with Allah in Heaven...
That's a strong sales pitch...it's also very convenient because the original is not available for inspection...So for all practical purposes, it is what it is, and it means what it says, even if some of it is the holy words of Usman or some other culprit.
Demsi...If you haven't read this...you might get something out of it...
Abul Kasem's 'Who authored the Quran'...Free on this site...look under Old site
authors list...I might re-read it myself...
written by kabir , April 08, 2010
are you sure you want to take these bunch of traitors in the Islamic fold. if they could not their mouths shut over the pedophelia of the bishops, how will they manage to remain quite when they look the 10 fold activity amongst the imams and the mullahs and what if they blow your pious religion up when they learn about the age of Aisha and the fact that your Mohammad the pervert had raped his daughter-in-law? Think again, not a good idea. They can harm your religion. In fact don't bring in any infidel in Islam as they carry dirty blood. You don,t do blood transfusion after conversion. Do you? All infidels will pollute your religion. They already have. Look around whereever your are. All those non-pious muslims that you see around who have no sense of your wonderful religion are the converts. They still carry the Infidel DNAs.
written by dmu , April 09, 2010
I would like to know why you do not do something more to spread the message?Why is it as if you are hiding(Of course you have done great efforts) but your word is not reaching the general public.Isn't there a way you can reach people in mass numbers which would actually help???
written by dmu , April 09, 2010
Would it be fine if i advertised your book at least in my city?? will it cause any copyright violations???
written by dmu , April 09, 2010
I have many friends who are muslim.They are nice people but they just don't know the truth about their religion.Can you tell how i can make them realize what islam is???
written by richard dawkins is prophet of truth , April 10, 2010
richard dawkins is prophet of truth.m.a.khanji is prophet of
truth.ali sinaji is prophet of truth.
pls read very good book : the greatest show on earth "
it clearly exposes truth of evolution and helps destroy
falsehood of creationism/elitism being practiced by
jews-christians-muslims-all falsehood believers
creationist people.
help spread this truth and help end judeo-christianity/islam
and voilence related with these hate based ideology.
pls spread this message to all.
pls google " the greatest show on earth "
pls help spread this divine prophetic message.
pls help destroy judeo-christianity/islam.
truth.ali sinaji is prophet of truth.
pls read very good book : the greatest show on earth "
it clearly exposes truth of evolution and helps destroy
falsehood of creationism/elitism being practiced by
jews-christians-muslims-all falsehood believers
creationist people.
help spread this truth and help end judeo-christianity/islam
and voilence related with these hate based ideology.
pls spread this message to all.
pls google " the greatest show on earth "
pls help spread this divine prophetic message.
pls help destroy judeo-christianity/islam.
written by Reed Wilson , April 10, 2010
To kabir. No problem with Catholics. If they just start believing in on God, discarding demi-gods, they become Muslims. All the scriptures give the same message.
written by Rationalist , April 10, 2010
It is a very nice article. I didn't know that Quran condoned pedophilia (Quran 65:4). I have many Muslim friends who follow only Quran but discard hadiths. I showed Q 65.4 to my Bangladeshi Muslim friend. He was shocked to find that in Quran. To ascertain truth he referred Bengali version of Quran. Yet, the meaning was the same. He said he was going to talk to his parents and brother about it. I guess the fire will spread!
written by MA Khan , April 10, 2010
Thank you 'dmu' for your suggestion.
It's not easy to criticise Islam, and be a public person. We know of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan, Geert Wilders et al. Millions of dollars are being used for round-the-clock protection of them.
Moreover, some of us critics of Islam prefer to lead a normal life, want to go back to our home country, like India, Bangladesh, Pakistan. And you know it's impossible if we come out in the open.
It's obviously way too dangerous and internet remains the best tool as of now to expose Islam.
Concerning your "good Muslim friends", it is a difficult to judge whether a Muslim is good until you talk about Islam. Your Muslim friends on the surface may appear very friendly or hospitable, but a most reasonable comment, critical of Islam, may turn them violent.
If they are so good and tolerant people, it should not be difficult to have an honest, open dialogue with them, and make them aware of what Islam is.
My advice to you:
1. Never try to talk Islam in critical light with a Muslim, howsoever, good a friend he/she may be. It could turn violent; the friendship would obviously be over. The best thing to do is to direct them to websites like ours.
2. Alternatively, you can pretend that you want to learn about Islam with a possibility of converting. Then start conversation with your Muslim friends on troublesome verses and hadiths, seeking clarifications from them.
In sum, opening eyes of Muslims about the truth of Islam---howsoever open-minded, liberal, tolerant and friendly they may appear---is one of the toughest things in the world. Don't believe, give it a try.
It's not easy to criticise Islam, and be a public person. We know of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan, Geert Wilders et al. Millions of dollars are being used for round-the-clock protection of them.
Moreover, some of us critics of Islam prefer to lead a normal life, want to go back to our home country, like India, Bangladesh, Pakistan. And you know it's impossible if we come out in the open.
It's obviously way too dangerous and internet remains the best tool as of now to expose Islam.
Concerning your "good Muslim friends", it is a difficult to judge whether a Muslim is good until you talk about Islam. Your Muslim friends on the surface may appear very friendly or hospitable, but a most reasonable comment, critical of Islam, may turn them violent.
If they are so good and tolerant people, it should not be difficult to have an honest, open dialogue with them, and make them aware of what Islam is.
My advice to you:
1. Never try to talk Islam in critical light with a Muslim, howsoever, good a friend he/she may be. It could turn violent; the friendship would obviously be over. The best thing to do is to direct them to websites like ours.
2. Alternatively, you can pretend that you want to learn about Islam with a possibility of converting. Then start conversation with your Muslim friends on troublesome verses and hadiths, seeking clarifications from them.
In sum, opening eyes of Muslims about the truth of Islam---howsoever open-minded, liberal, tolerant and friendly they may appear---is one of the toughest things in the world. Don't believe, give it a try.
written by vbv , April 10, 2010
Very sound advice ,indeed, you have given to dmu.Muslims are possessive of their cult like they are of their kith and kin ,or even more than that ,for it has been prescribed by that evil cult to be a true 'muslim' you have to love it and its pedophile prophet more than your father,mother,wife and your children. Wow! What a load of crap is this evil cult that you have to uphold it to the point of murdering even your father,mother,wife and children who dare to stray away or criticise this barbaric cult! No wonder these muslims are so brainwashed ( if they had any brains left by being a muslim) and such blacksheep in the civilised ,free society !
written by to : reed wilson the imaginary god u may worship is non-existant , April 10, 2010
to : reeed wilson the imaginary god u may worship is non-existant.pls read
the false and hate based scriptures of judeo-christianity/pisslam.
believe in only 1 imaginary deity or he puts u in imaginary hell.message
of bible/koran is same.
the only problem :
there is no jehova/allah,bcoz these r imaginary beings.
man is not created by imaginary jehova/allah but evoled by nature,
and proof is in our dna and genes.so there is no need to believe in
an imaginary hateful deity jehova/allah.
just be a good human being,and morality does not come from religion/book
bcoz even people who dont believe in falsehood=judeo-christianity/pisslam
r good human beings,some examples :
gandhi,richard dawkins,m.a.khan,ali sina,gautam buddha,etc....
teachings of gandhi/buddha r better than bible/koran jesus/muhamed.
the false and hate based scriptures of judeo-christianity/pisslam.
believe in only 1 imaginary deity or he puts u in imaginary hell.message
of bible/koran is same.
the only problem :
there is no jehova/allah,bcoz these r imaginary beings.
man is not created by imaginary jehova/allah but evoled by nature,
and proof is in our dna and genes.so there is no need to believe in
an imaginary hateful deity jehova/allah.
just be a good human being,and morality does not come from religion/book
bcoz even people who dont believe in falsehood=judeo-christianity/pisslam
r good human beings,some examples :
gandhi,richard dawkins,m.a.khan,ali sina,gautam buddha,etc....
teachings of gandhi/buddha r better than bible/koran jesus/muhamed.
written by think about it , April 10, 2010
i think if the left parties in islamic lands behave and acting like the leftist in the west they will be considered traitors and treated like criminals .
written by MA Khan , April 10, 2010
That's the right way to poke Muslims, who are ignorant of many vices of Islam, and are potential targets for enlightenment.
This Bangladeshi Muslim is most likely on his way...
Point to them the wrongs in the Quran one at a time.
This Bangladeshi Muslim is most likely on his way...
Point to them the wrongs in the Quran one at a time.
written by duh_swami , April 10, 2010
Reed...Catholics. If they just start believing in on God, discarding demi-gods, they become Muslims.
You think Catholics believe in more than one God? You got any names for those Catholic demi-gods?
Do you mean 'muslim' in it's generic dictionary definition of believing in one God, or do you mean 'Muslum' in its practical usage in Islam...which is full of additional requirements?
The converting Catholic must also accept Mohammad as Allah's messenger....I'm sure you have heard of Shahada...or maybe not...It's kind of basic for becoming an official Muslim...You can do this alone...the words are not meant to convince any audience, they are to convince Allah. You must also submit to sharia and Islamic authority...And you must make yourself available for jihad because it is your 'obligation'...You can't be an official Islamic Muslim unless you do this...
But you can still be a dictionary Muslim...There are lots of them, they are often called 'Muslims in name only', 'Muslims for identification purposes only', or 'moderates'...Many of them have never read any Islamic scripture, and don't care to...Islamic scripture can spoil any party and always rains on the parade...others do read scripture but discard what does not appeal to them or 're-interpret' Allah's words to suit themselves... still others abandon hadith, partly because they would like to hide the fact that their Prophet, the main man, was actually a despotic, depraved pervert...I don't blame them for wanting to hide that, but the cats already out of the bag...
While it's possible for a pious Catholic to convert to Islam and become a pious Muslims, I don't think it works out too well in practice...What is possible is not always probable...
You think Catholics believe in more than one God? You got any names for those Catholic demi-gods?
Do you mean 'muslim' in it's generic dictionary definition of believing in one God, or do you mean 'Muslum' in its practical usage in Islam...which is full of additional requirements?
The converting Catholic must also accept Mohammad as Allah's messenger....I'm sure you have heard of Shahada...or maybe not...It's kind of basic for becoming an official Muslim...You can do this alone...the words are not meant to convince any audience, they are to convince Allah. You must also submit to sharia and Islamic authority...And you must make yourself available for jihad because it is your 'obligation'...You can't be an official Islamic Muslim unless you do this...
But you can still be a dictionary Muslim...There are lots of them, they are often called 'Muslims in name only', 'Muslims for identification purposes only', or 'moderates'...Many of them have never read any Islamic scripture, and don't care to...Islamic scripture can spoil any party and always rains on the parade...others do read scripture but discard what does not appeal to them or 're-interpret' Allah's words to suit themselves... still others abandon hadith, partly because they would like to hide the fact that their Prophet, the main man, was actually a despotic, depraved pervert...I don't blame them for wanting to hide that, but the cats already out of the bag...
While it's possible for a pious Catholic to convert to Islam and become a pious Muslims, I don't think it works out too well in practice...What is possible is not always probable...
written by cow is better than imaginary jehova/allah , April 10, 2010
cow,goat,sheep is better than imaginary jehova/allah.cow eats agricultural waste-grass and gives milk,butter,cheeze,all healthful and useful products.
they give urine and dung which fertilize the field,and even
in death they r useful.
these animals dotn ask anyone to hate anyone esle and nor do
they ask any human to murder,rape,kill in their name.
finally cow,sheep,goat,actually exists,and can be seen and felt
and their usefulness is wellknown.
even stone exists,and can be sued for some work,incl doing
some harmless things like worshipping as stone does not ask u
to kill in its name.
as against this imaginary jehova/allah through terror manuals like bible/koran and false prophets says that u must how to him exclusively and kill
others and who dont bow to this imaginary deity go to imaginary hell.
so by all counts,stone,cow,sheep,goat,pig,dog,camel etc r better
and more useful than imaginary jehova/allah
written by duh_swami , April 10, 2010
cow is better than imaginary jehova/allah
written by cow is better than imaginary jehova/allah
You got a good point there...There is no food value to a diet of imaginary jehova/Allah...Man can't live by Islam alone...but if you have a few chickens, some goats, and some land to grow vegies, you don't need jehova/Allah at all...
What do you need them for? You have to overcome them and keep them out of your garden...Otherwise they will send legions of snails to devour your carrots.
Allah attacks the garden at night, nothing is safe from the advance of his slimy warriors...I have been fighting them for years, and they keep coming back...
Next week I will by a cow...
written by cow is better than imaginary jehova/allah
You got a good point there...There is no food value to a diet of imaginary jehova/Allah...Man can't live by Islam alone...but if you have a few chickens, some goats, and some land to grow vegies, you don't need jehova/Allah at all...
What do you need them for? You have to overcome them and keep them out of your garden...Otherwise they will send legions of snails to devour your carrots.
Allah attacks the garden at night, nothing is safe from the advance of his slimy warriors...I have been fighting them for years, and they keep coming back...
Next week I will by a cow...
written by Reed Wilson , April 10, 2010
Dear Duh, You write “You think Catholics believe in more than one God? You got any names for those Catholic demi-gods”. This question, they have to ask to themselves. If they don't, it is fine. I don't mean muslim in dictionary definition. This is quranic definition. I quote two verses.
2:62. 'Those who believe Quan and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
3:51-52.When Jesus said: "Who will help me for Allah, the disciples said we will help for Allah. We believe in Allah, and witness that we are Muslims.
"Our Lord! We believe in what you have revealed, and we follow the Messenger; then write us down among those who bear witness”.
Shahadah is not a requirement to become Muslim. Sharia is something other than Quran. Converting and renaming etc are not mentioned in Quran.
I do not give verdicts on my own. It is Quran’s verdict which I give here for my friends who wish to know.
2:62. 'Those who believe Quan and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
3:51-52.When Jesus said: "Who will help me for Allah, the disciples said we will help for Allah. We believe in Allah, and witness that we are Muslims.
"Our Lord! We believe in what you have revealed, and we follow the Messenger; then write us down among those who bear witness”.
Shahadah is not a requirement to become Muslim. Sharia is something other than Quran. Converting and renaming etc are not mentioned in Quran.
I do not give verdicts on my own. It is Quran’s verdict which I give here for my friends who wish to know.
written by duh_swami , April 10, 2010
Shahadah is not a requirement to become Muslim.
From this web site...http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/practices/shahada-faith.htm
The first of the Five Pillars of Islam is the shahada. Shahada is the Muslim profession of faith, expressing the two simple, fundamental beliefs that make one a Muslim:
La ilaha illa Allah wa-Muhammad rasul Allah.
There is no god but God and Muhammad is the prophet of God.
From this web site...http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/193/
A Muslim is simply one who bears witness and testifies that “nothing deserves worship except God and Muhammad is the messenger of God.” One becomes a Muslim by making this simple declaration.
There's more, but that's enough...
I guess to you, their is no need for the first pillar of Islam...So these generations
of supposed Muslims who thought shahada meant something were wrong...What a waste of time and effort...There is no first pillar of Islam...I always thought that was a lie, thanks...
So far Reed, you have convinced me that to be a Muslim, there is no need for shahada, there is no need for hadith, the very Quran you rely on has been shown to be unreliable...That makes me an un-repenting kufr and you an un-repenting apostate...By the way Reed. an apostate is also a kufr...welcome into the club...
From this web site...http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/practices/shahada-faith.htm
The first of the Five Pillars of Islam is the shahada. Shahada is the Muslim profession of faith, expressing the two simple, fundamental beliefs that make one a Muslim:
La ilaha illa Allah wa-Muhammad rasul Allah.
There is no god but God and Muhammad is the prophet of God.
From this web site...http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/193/
A Muslim is simply one who bears witness and testifies that “nothing deserves worship except God and Muhammad is the messenger of God.” One becomes a Muslim by making this simple declaration.
There's more, but that's enough...
I guess to you, their is no need for the first pillar of Islam...So these generations
of supposed Muslims who thought shahada meant something were wrong...What a waste of time and effort...There is no first pillar of Islam...I always thought that was a lie, thanks...
So far Reed, you have convinced me that to be a Muslim, there is no need for shahada, there is no need for hadith, the very Quran you rely on has been shown to be unreliable...That makes me an un-repenting kufr and you an un-repenting apostate...By the way Reed. an apostate is also a kufr...welcome into the club...
written by dmu , April 11, 2010
Can you give me all(or at least the important ones) the troublesome verses in qoran and hadiths so that i can use them for reference and for the specified purpose???
written by Healer_999 , April 11, 2010
I wrote a good one for you, but it was with held by screening system.
written by Healer_999 , April 11, 2010
You have to do a bit of work your self. It is every body's responsibility not just theirs. More over you should have basic info regarding this Islam. Like how many chapters, criteria for arrangement of chapters, knowing the actual chronological order of chapters and the difference between these two.
Koran partly was reveled in Mecca and later in Medina. There was a lot of difference between what was reveled in Mecca and what was reveled in Medina regarding the nature of verses. Meccan Koran is peaceful and Medina Koran is violent.
So what you have is peace versus violence, but violence is the one which rules Koran. Why? Because of Koranic concept of abrogation. You need to understand this completely.
I suggest you to go to a website, blog spot I think it is still under construction but you will under stand the basics. It's name is knowing-basics.blogspot.com, I think.
There were certain incidents which one must know to understand Mohammad. His expelling and massacres of Jewish tribes in and around Medina.
1. Banu Qainuqa - expelled.
2. Banu Nadir - expelled and later more violence against them. (Chapter 59)
3. Banu Qurayza - 900 Jewish men were beheaded and their women were taken as slaves. (Chapter 33)
4. Banu Mustaliq - Attacked with out any provocation.
In all these cases, except the first one, He killed the men folk and took their women as slaves. It is not just this. That man went on to rape certain young women from these tribes on the day of massacre it self.
Their names are:
1. Safiya from Banu Nadir. (Married later)
2. Safaria from Banu Mustaliq (married later)
3. Reyhana from Banu Qurayza. (This teenage girl refused to become a Muslim, so never married).
Then there was Aisha, whom he married when she was 6 or 7, and consummated the marriage when she was 9. She was 18 when that man was dead.
Most in famous incident was Mohammad marrying his own daughter in law Zainab and even having sex with her even before marriage. (Chapter 33, this chapter tells a lot about that sexual maniac).
Regarding violence there are about 200 verses. Important ones are 2:190-193, 2:216, 2:217, 2:256, 3:157, 8:12, 8:39, 8: 057, 8:65-67, 4:74-76, 4:94-96, 5:32-33, 47: 04 and the entire 9th chapter (9:005 verse of sword called popularly, 9:029, 9:023, 9:028, 9:38, 9:41, 9:111, 9:123).
Some you should read: 3:85, 4:48 (4:116, these two tell disbelief in Allah is the worst and Allah will forgive any thing but not this), 49:10 (Muslims are brotherhood), 5:101-102 (do not ask questions about Koran lest you lose faith), 3:110 (Muslims are best of man kind), 3:28 (Muslims can not make friendship with non Muslims, in fact there are about 12 of this type.), 48:29, 24:55 (Muslims will become the rulers of the world), 40:10 (Allah's hatred of Idolaters), 63:008, 58:20, 58:21, 58:22 (Same category 60:13, 4:135), 51:056 (sole purpose Allah created man kind was that men worship and serve him), 57:10, 25:55, 5:038.
48:28, 61:09, 9:033 say Islam will conquer the whole world.
2:221 and 5:005 regulate marriages. (Totalitarianism)
4:024 and 23:06 say Muslims can keep as many women as slaves and can have sex with them. Once a woman is taken as captive her previous marriage becomes void even if her husband was alive.
4:003 - polygamy sanctioned.
4:034-infamous verse saying husbands can beat wives.
4:011 and 4:012 stupid inheritance laws.(poor maths).
Verses of cult of death -- 62:06, 62:07 and 2:94, 2:95, 2:96. They say that Muslims will die for faith and asks can Jews die for faith?
Notorious verses depicting Jews as apes and pigs - 2:63-66, 5:59-60, 7:166.
Famous descriptions of how non Muslims will be punished in
hell: 14:016-017, 22:019-022, 4:56, 18:029, 3:10.
Verses of dhimmitude- (4:141,63:8,3:85, 2:105, 4:053,9:029)-How and why non Muslims should be treated by Muslims when they have power.
All the best.
Koran partly was reveled in Mecca and later in Medina. There was a lot of difference between what was reveled in Mecca and what was reveled in Medina regarding the nature of verses. Meccan Koran is peaceful and Medina Koran is violent.
So what you have is peace versus violence, but violence is the one which rules Koran. Why? Because of Koranic concept of abrogation. You need to understand this completely.
I suggest you to go to a website, blog spot I think it is still under construction but you will under stand the basics. It's name is knowing-basics.blogspot.com, I think.
There were certain incidents which one must know to understand Mohammad. His expelling and massacres of Jewish tribes in and around Medina.
1. Banu Qainuqa - expelled.
2. Banu Nadir - expelled and later more violence against them. (Chapter 59)
3. Banu Qurayza - 900 Jewish men were beheaded and their women were taken as slaves. (Chapter 33)
4. Banu Mustaliq - Attacked with out any provocation.
In all these cases, except the first one, He killed the men folk and took their women as slaves. It is not just this. That man went on to rape certain young women from these tribes on the day of massacre it self.
Their names are:
1. Safiya from Banu Nadir. (Married later)
2. Safaria from Banu Mustaliq (married later)
3. Reyhana from Banu Qurayza. (This teenage girl refused to become a Muslim, so never married).
Then there was Aisha, whom he married when she was 6 or 7, and consummated the marriage when she was 9. She was 18 when that man was dead.
Most in famous incident was Mohammad marrying his own daughter in law Zainab and even having sex with her even before marriage. (Chapter 33, this chapter tells a lot about that sexual maniac).
Regarding violence there are about 200 verses. Important ones are 2:190-193, 2:216, 2:217, 2:256, 3:157, 8:12, 8:39, 8: 057, 8:65-67, 4:74-76, 4:94-96, 5:32-33, 47: 04 and the entire 9th chapter (9:005 verse of sword called popularly, 9:029, 9:023, 9:028, 9:38, 9:41, 9:111, 9:123).
Some you should read: 3:85, 4:48 (4:116, these two tell disbelief in Allah is the worst and Allah will forgive any thing but not this), 49:10 (Muslims are brotherhood), 5:101-102 (do not ask questions about Koran lest you lose faith), 3:110 (Muslims are best of man kind), 3:28 (Muslims can not make friendship with non Muslims, in fact there are about 12 of this type.), 48:29, 24:55 (Muslims will become the rulers of the world), 40:10 (Allah's hatred of Idolaters), 63:008, 58:20, 58:21, 58:22 (Same category 60:13, 4:135), 51:056 (sole purpose Allah created man kind was that men worship and serve him), 57:10, 25:55, 5:038.
48:28, 61:09, 9:033 say Islam will conquer the whole world.
2:221 and 5:005 regulate marriages. (Totalitarianism)
4:024 and 23:06 say Muslims can keep as many women as slaves and can have sex with them. Once a woman is taken as captive her previous marriage becomes void even if her husband was alive.
4:003 - polygamy sanctioned.
4:034-infamous verse saying husbands can beat wives.
4:011 and 4:012 stupid inheritance laws.(poor maths).
Verses of cult of death -- 62:06, 62:07 and 2:94, 2:95, 2:96. They say that Muslims will die for faith and asks can Jews die for faith?
Notorious verses depicting Jews as apes and pigs - 2:63-66, 5:59-60, 7:166.
Famous descriptions of how non Muslims will be punished in
hell: 14:016-017, 22:019-022, 4:56, 18:029, 3:10.
Verses of dhimmitude- (4:141,63:8,3:85, 2:105, 4:053,9:029)-How and why non Muslims should be treated by Muslims when they have power.
All the best.
written by Reed Wilson , April 11, 2010
To duh swami. Believe me, no shahada is needed. I have my own experience. I didn't go to any .... for reciting shahada in front of a clergy. I may be a better muslim than the clergy himself.
Yvon Redly also didn't go to any priest for Shahada. Priest has no place in in Islam. They say they have. They are lying.
Everybody is answerable to himself, individually
Yvon Redly also didn't go to any priest for Shahada. Priest has no place in in Islam. They say they have. They are lying.
Everybody is answerable to himself, individually
written by Reed Wilson , April 11, 2010
To Mr. Shibli Zaman You write "My reasons of argument are many hadiths which indicate that Usman's quran missed a lot of verses,the commitee compiled quran based on testimonies and what they recovered from writings on stones, bones and leaves and that one of the reasons Usman was killed was that many sahabas accused him of changing quran". This seems an after thought.
Earlier you stated that some verses were added by Usman to suit his vested interests.
It is not understandable that all that was happening. You dont quote any source. If you were eyewitness, we might consider your claim.
You also told that one Imamali had complete original perfect copy of Quran. The Quran in hand is complete perfect copy, may be a reproduction of Imamalis print.
How you know all such 'inside stories'?
Earlier you stated that some verses were added by Usman to suit his vested interests.
It is not understandable that all that was happening. You dont quote any source. If you were eyewitness, we might consider your claim.
You also told that one Imamali had complete original perfect copy of Quran. The Quran in hand is complete perfect copy, may be a reproduction of Imamalis print.
How you know all such 'inside stories'?
written by Reed Wilson , April 11, 2010
duh_swami.Yes, Shahadah is not a requirement to become Muslim.
"From this web site...http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/practices/shahada-faith.htm
The first of the Five Pillars of Islam is the shahada. Shahada is the Muslim profession of faith, expressing the two simple, fundamental beliefs that make one a Muslim:
La ilaha illa Allah wa-Muhammad rasul Allah.
There is no god but God and Muhammad is the prophet of God".
Thank you for the above source. When we have Quran we dont need consulting any other source.
Dont you remember my post to Clement "No five pillars. No Ten Commandments"? These all are SHI.
Where did all messengers of Allah went for Shahada? We have to follow them. I didnt go anywhere and I am fine.
"From this web site...http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/practices/shahada-faith.htm
The first of the Five Pillars of Islam is the shahada. Shahada is the Muslim profession of faith, expressing the two simple, fundamental beliefs that make one a Muslim:
La ilaha illa Allah wa-Muhammad rasul Allah.
There is no god but God and Muhammad is the prophet of God".
Thank you for the above source. When we have Quran we dont need consulting any other source.
Dont you remember my post to Clement "No five pillars. No Ten Commandments"? These all are SHI.
Where did all messengers of Allah went for Shahada? We have to follow them. I didnt go anywhere and I am fine.
written by duh_swami , April 11, 2010
You are an apostate Reed...Following your own version of Islam...You are a Muslim in your fantasies only...Your explanations are not explanations, they are opinions only...Your opinions are so far off mainstream Islam, that there is no way you can be a Muslim...You cannot even speak for Islam, because you have invented your own version...I don't care that you did that, but to claim you are a Muslim is dishonest...
written by Healer_999 , April 11, 2010
That man has the potential of becoming a full pledged suicide bomber. He is very devout, can't you see how he rejects the filth all that is in Koran saying very rubbish. I have never seen such a illogical person till now.
written by duh_swami , April 11, 2010
When we have Quran we dont need consulting any other source.
That's why Muslims don't invent much...For instance, the Quran says nothing about radio waves...it took a kufr inventor to figure it out...And what does the Quran say about the visible spectrum, starting with radio waves and ending in long wave oscillations...Uh huh...
But Reed...What I want to know about the Quran, is, what does 'Alif Lam Mem' mean 3:1?...I think I know, and may be the first to figure it out, but I thought I would give you a chance first...Since you don't need to go outside the Quran, please explain...
That's why Muslims don't invent much...For instance, the Quran says nothing about radio waves...it took a kufr inventor to figure it out...And what does the Quran say about the visible spectrum, starting with radio waves and ending in long wave oscillations...Uh huh...
But Reed...What I want to know about the Quran, is, what does 'Alif Lam Mem' mean 3:1?...I think I know, and may be the first to figure it out, but I thought I would give you a chance first...Since you don't need to go outside the Quran, please explain...
written by skipper , April 12, 2010
But... but.. but... why would Muslims need to rid Islam of paedophilia? Isn't that one of the perks of being a Muslim?
written by duh_swami , April 12, 2010
I have never seen such a illogical person till now.
Reed is like a drunk in a dark room full of cardboard boxes trying to find the light switch...He does seem to be devout, he's also devious and dishonest...
Reed is like a drunk in a dark room full of cardboard boxes trying to find the light switch...He does seem to be devout, he's also devious and dishonest...
written by Healer_999 , April 12, 2010
A devout Muslim is one follows Mohammad truly. Thats why we see such things from him.
Suddenly it occurred to him that History is valuable and be considered after all the denials of Islamic History here many times. Quite a paradigm shift on History. Just go to first article and read his comment.
I always believed this man is a different psychopath. After all, Mohammad and his true followers are all psychopaths of one kind or other.
Now he proved himself that Muslims are masters of double standards and he him self is archetype in that character.
Suddenly it occurred to him that History is valuable and be considered after all the denials of Islamic History here many times. Quite a paradigm shift on History. Just go to first article and read his comment.
I always believed this man is a different psychopath. After all, Mohammad and his true followers are all psychopaths of one kind or other.
Now he proved himself that Muslims are masters of double standards and he him self is archetype in that character.
written by duh_swami , April 12, 2010
Reed made up his own definition of 'Muslim' and applies it to himself...Just like he made up his own brand of Islam...You cannot kick the first pillar of Islam (shahada) out from under it and call yourself a Muslim...Shahada is the essence of a real (pious) Muslim...The last part about Mohammad as you describe...
I am kufr so my opinion does not mean much, but I think that the Muslims who post here also raise an eyebrow...and think...'What was that he just said'?
Actually I don't care what he believes unless he takes some of those vicious aya's in the Quran seriously and hurts someone...
I am kufr so my opinion does not mean much, but I think that the Muslims who post here also raise an eyebrow...and think...'What was that he just said'?
Actually I don't care what he believes unless he takes some of those vicious aya's in the Quran seriously and hurts someone...
written by Healer_999 , April 12, 2010
You have to do a bit of work your self. It is every body's response not just theirs. More over you should have basic info regarding this Islam. Like how many chapters, criteria for arrangement of chapters, knowing the actual chronological order of chapters and the difference between these two.
Koran partly was reveled in Mecca and later in Medina. There was a lot of difference between what was reveled in Mecca and what was reveled in Medina regarding the nature of verses. Meccan Koran is peaceful and Medina Koran is violent.
So what you have is peace versus violence, but violence is the one which rules Koran. Why? Because of Koranic concept of abrogation. You need to understand this completely.
I suggest you to go to a website, blog spot I think it is still under construction but you will under stand the basics. It's name is knowing-basics.blogspot.com, I think.
There were certain incidents which one must know to understand Mohammad. His expelling and massacres of Jewish tribes in and around Medina.
1. Banu Qainuqa - expelled.
2. Banu Nadir - expelled and later more violence against them. (Chapter 59)
3. Banu Qurayza - 900 Jewish men were beheaded and their women were taken as slaves. (Chapter 33)
4. Banu Mustaliq - Attacked with out any provocation.
In all these cases, except the first one, He killed the men folk and took their women as slaves. It is not just this. That sick Bastard went on to rape certain young women from these tribes on the day of massacre it self.
Their names are:
1. Safiya from Banu Nadir. (Married later)
2. Zafaria from Banu Mustaliq (married later)
3. Reyhana from Banu Qurayza. (This teenage girl refused to become a Muslim, so never married).
Then there was Aisha, whom he married when she was 6 or 7, and consummated the marriage when she was 9. She was 18 when that sick Bastard was dead.
Most in famous incident was Mohammad marrying his own daughter in law Zainab and even having sex with her even before marriage. (Chapter 33, this chapter tells a lot about that sexual maniac).
Regarding violence there are about 200 verses. Important ones are 2:190-193, 2:216, 2:217, 2:256, 3:157, 8:12, 8:39, 8: 057, 8:65-67, 4:74-76, 4:94-96, 5:32-33, 47: 04 and the entire 9th chapter (9:005 verse of sword called popularly, 9:029, 9:023, 9:028, 9:38, 9:41, 9:111, 9:123).
Some you should read: 3:85, 4:48 (4:116, these two tell disbelief in Allah is the worst and Allah will forgive any thing but not this), 49:10 (Muslims are brotherhood), 5:101-102 (do not ask questions about Koran lest you lose faith), 3:110 (Muslims are best of man kind), 3:28 (Muslims can not make friendship with non Muslims, in fact there are about 12 of this type.), 48:29, 24:55 (Muslims will become the rulers of the world), 40:10 (Allah's hatred of Idolaters), 63:008, 58:20, 58:21, 58:22 (Same category 60:13, 4:135), 51:056 (sole purpose Allah created man kind was that men worship and serve him), 57:10, 25:55, 5:038.
48:28, 61:09, 9:033 say Islam will conquer the whole world.
2:221 and 5:005 regulate marriages. (Totalitarianism)
4:024 and 23:06 say Muslims can keep as many women as slaves and can have sex with them. Once a woman is taken as captive her previous marriage becomes void even if her husband was alive.
4:003 - polygamy sanctioned.
4:034-infamous verse saying husbands can beat wives.
4:011 and 4:012 stupid inheritance laws.(poor maths).
Verses of cult of death -- 62:06, 62:07 and 2:94, 2:95, 2:96. They say that Muslims will die for faith and asks can Jews die for faith?
Notorious verses depicting Jews as apes and pigs - 2:63-66, 5:59-60, 7:166.
Famous descriptions of how non Muslims will be punished in
hell: 14:016-017, 22:019-022, 4:56, 18:029, 3:10.
Verses of dhimmitude- (4:141,63:8,3:85, 2:105, 4:053,9:029)-How and why non Muslims should be treated by Muslims when they have power.
All the best.
Koran partly was reveled in Mecca and later in Medina. There was a lot of difference between what was reveled in Mecca and what was reveled in Medina regarding the nature of verses. Meccan Koran is peaceful and Medina Koran is violent.
So what you have is peace versus violence, but violence is the one which rules Koran. Why? Because of Koranic concept of abrogation. You need to understand this completely.
I suggest you to go to a website, blog spot I think it is still under construction but you will under stand the basics. It's name is knowing-basics.blogspot.com, I think.
There were certain incidents which one must know to understand Mohammad. His expelling and massacres of Jewish tribes in and around Medina.
1. Banu Qainuqa - expelled.
2. Banu Nadir - expelled and later more violence against them. (Chapter 59)
3. Banu Qurayza - 900 Jewish men were beheaded and their women were taken as slaves. (Chapter 33)
4. Banu Mustaliq - Attacked with out any provocation.
In all these cases, except the first one, He killed the men folk and took their women as slaves. It is not just this. That sick Bastard went on to rape certain young women from these tribes on the day of massacre it self.
Their names are:
1. Safiya from Banu Nadir. (Married later)
2. Zafaria from Banu Mustaliq (married later)
3. Reyhana from Banu Qurayza. (This teenage girl refused to become a Muslim, so never married).
Then there was Aisha, whom he married when she was 6 or 7, and consummated the marriage when she was 9. She was 18 when that sick Bastard was dead.
Most in famous incident was Mohammad marrying his own daughter in law Zainab and even having sex with her even before marriage. (Chapter 33, this chapter tells a lot about that sexual maniac).
Regarding violence there are about 200 verses. Important ones are 2:190-193, 2:216, 2:217, 2:256, 3:157, 8:12, 8:39, 8: 057, 8:65-67, 4:74-76, 4:94-96, 5:32-33, 47: 04 and the entire 9th chapter (9:005 verse of sword called popularly, 9:029, 9:023, 9:028, 9:38, 9:41, 9:111, 9:123).
Some you should read: 3:85, 4:48 (4:116, these two tell disbelief in Allah is the worst and Allah will forgive any thing but not this), 49:10 (Muslims are brotherhood), 5:101-102 (do not ask questions about Koran lest you lose faith), 3:110 (Muslims are best of man kind), 3:28 (Muslims can not make friendship with non Muslims, in fact there are about 12 of this type.), 48:29, 24:55 (Muslims will become the rulers of the world), 40:10 (Allah's hatred of Idolaters), 63:008, 58:20, 58:21, 58:22 (Same category 60:13, 4:135), 51:056 (sole purpose Allah created man kind was that men worship and serve him), 57:10, 25:55, 5:038.
48:28, 61:09, 9:033 say Islam will conquer the whole world.
2:221 and 5:005 regulate marriages. (Totalitarianism)
4:024 and 23:06 say Muslims can keep as many women as slaves and can have sex with them. Once a woman is taken as captive her previous marriage becomes void even if her husband was alive.
4:003 - polygamy sanctioned.
4:034-infamous verse saying husbands can beat wives.
4:011 and 4:012 stupid inheritance laws.(poor maths).
Verses of cult of death -- 62:06, 62:07 and 2:94, 2:95, 2:96. They say that Muslims will die for faith and asks can Jews die for faith?
Notorious verses depicting Jews as apes and pigs - 2:63-66, 5:59-60, 7:166.
Famous descriptions of how non Muslims will be punished in
hell: 14:016-017, 22:019-022, 4:56, 18:029, 3:10.
Verses of dhimmitude- (4:141,63:8,3:85, 2:105, 4:053,9:029)-How and why non Muslims should be treated by Muslims when they have power.
All the best.
written by proudest_kafir , April 13, 2010
This reed chap is either completely ignorant or is willfully lying ( a not uncommon feature of moslems) to further the cause of islam.
In sodi barbaria the home land of islam and where the rapist pedophile mohammad carried out his brutality to the hilt. I have known many who got converted to islam personally for monetary gains and the process is simple.
The first thing the neo convert has to do is in the mosques he has to pronounce the sentence ashadu anna la illah hi illallah mohammadur rasool allah.
Then if the convert is a white man he will be declared a moslem scumbag and will be given a certificate and there will be a feast in the mosque, usually beef for the main course and other meats as well. White convert gets ( used to get) 5000 riyals as inducement money for accepting the allah the pimp and the beti chod mohammad.[removed]void(0);
if he is an indian hindu convert, he has to pronounce this shahada and then has to eat and relish beef.He will be given 1000 riyals! Soon after the conversion the white convert can travel etc freely and also leave the country.The asian convert has to bang his head 5 times a day compulsorily and will be thoroughly brain washed.He will not be allowed to leave the country for a year or so till the brain wash is complete. As I see there is a chain of people.Mohammad is the main man.Allah is stuck behind mohammad with his face buried in the mohammad's back side. The stupid arabs are stuck behind the back side of allah and are busy cleaning the allahs' arse with tongue.The even stupider non arab moslems mullahs are stuck behind the back side of arabs and behind the mullahs arse are the common moslems. No one has the time or brain to take the face off the back side to think for a minute! Arabs hate these neo converts from the asia and phillipines. The filipinos used to get converted repeatedly and change the passport and come back again and get converted to claim the riyals.The smart sodis gradually figured out this and so thy prevented the neo converts from leaving the country.My guess is this reeed is a convert and brain washed from sodi barbaria
In sodi barbaria the home land of islam and where the rapist pedophile mohammad carried out his brutality to the hilt. I have known many who got converted to islam personally for monetary gains and the process is simple.
The first thing the neo convert has to do is in the mosques he has to pronounce the sentence ashadu anna la illah hi illallah mohammadur rasool allah.
Then if the convert is a white man he will be declared a moslem scumbag and will be given a certificate and there will be a feast in the mosque, usually beef for the main course and other meats as well. White convert gets ( used to get) 5000 riyals as inducement money for accepting the allah the pimp and the beti chod mohammad.[removed]void(0);
if he is an indian hindu convert, he has to pronounce this shahada and then has to eat and relish beef.He will be given 1000 riyals! Soon after the conversion the white convert can travel etc freely and also leave the country.The asian convert has to bang his head 5 times a day compulsorily and will be thoroughly brain washed.He will not be allowed to leave the country for a year or so till the brain wash is complete. As I see there is a chain of people.Mohammad is the main man.Allah is stuck behind mohammad with his face buried in the mohammad's back side. The stupid arabs are stuck behind the back side of allah and are busy cleaning the allahs' arse with tongue.The even stupider non arab moslems mullahs are stuck behind the back side of arabs and behind the mullahs arse are the common moslems. No one has the time or brain to take the face off the back side to think for a minute! Arabs hate these neo converts from the asia and phillipines. The filipinos used to get converted repeatedly and change the passport and come back again and get converted to claim the riyals.The smart sodis gradually figured out this and so thy prevented the neo converts from leaving the country.My guess is this reeed is a convert and brain washed from sodi barbaria
written by proudest_kafir , April 13, 2010
Every pious and believing moslem has a wet dream about getting to know a girl child aged 6 or less. Any moslem who loves the pedophile rapist mohammad is always to be kept away from little children. I have seen the moslem scum bags even as old as 65 salivating at the sight of little girls. That's the reason no moslem father/ mother trusts his/her own child with another male moslem relative
written by proudest_kafir , April 13, 2010
Most ignorant moslems are lame followers of islam.They have no clue about what's in qrand.Many poor moslem parents in hyderabad are happy to sell their 10 year old daughters as temporary wives to visiting syphilitic old arabs. A few thousand rupees is all that's needed to access the vagina of a child from a moslem family.
Many moslems sell their assets to go for haj, Many moslems eek out a living and have no time to even think about the brutality of islam. All moslem women are frustrated lot.The moslem society prides itself in being separate from the society. they live in. All in all it's a curse being born as a moslem and a greater curse if you are a moslem and few brain cells and are a woman
Many moslems sell their assets to go for haj, Many moslems eek out a living and have no time to even think about the brutality of islam. All moslem women are frustrated lot.The moslem society prides itself in being separate from the society. they live in. All in all it's a curse being born as a moslem and a greater curse if you are a moslem and few brain cells and are a woman
written by Reed Wilson , April 13, 2010
proudest_kafir. You are confused about conversion. You mentioned meaningless conversions. You are not clear about reed also. You write" This reed chap is either completely ignorant or is willfully lying ( a not uncommon feature of moslems) to further the cause of islam. Be sure what you want to say. This either or can be said about everybody.
written by Reed Wilson , April 13, 2010
To proudest_kafir. You write, "Most ignorant moslems are lame followers of islam.They have no clue about what's in qrand.Many poor moslem parents in hyderabad are happy to sell their 10 year old daughters as temporary wives to visiting syphilitic old arabs. A few thousand rupees is all that's needed to access the vagina of a child from a moslem family". Do you mean it is cheap or expensive? What is the rate of other communities?
You should do research on the prevalent rate.
You should do research on the prevalent rate.
written by proudest_kafir , April 13, 2010
i AM NOT CONFUSED AT ALL.
The first thing to become a moslem or get converted to pisslam is to declare in front of two or more male moslems the shahada that " I believe inAllah the only god and mohammad his rasool" in Arabic and repeat it three times.Bingo you throw away your brain and are fit to blow your self up in anticipation of those 72 virginal vaginas and 28 boys. This is in essence pisslam.
You can not get converted to Hinduism or Judaism and even if you do no body brain washes you to strap bombs to the abdomen and explde in market place.There is no eterenal erection in hinduism heaven! It's only in islamic filth.
The basis of islamic filth is shahada and how can you deny that?
The first thing to become a moslem or get converted to pisslam is to declare in front of two or more male moslems the shahada that " I believe inAllah the only god and mohammad his rasool" in Arabic and repeat it three times.Bingo you throw away your brain and are fit to blow your self up in anticipation of those 72 virginal vaginas and 28 boys. This is in essence pisslam.
You can not get converted to Hinduism or Judaism and even if you do no body brain washes you to strap bombs to the abdomen and explde in market place.There is no eterenal erection in hinduism heaven! It's only in islamic filth.
The basis of islamic filth is shahada and how can you deny that?
written by proudest_kafir , April 13, 2010
Sorry I am not a pimp to know the rates of various types of vaginas! That I believe is the duty of your pimp allah who supplies boys and girls! Kindly sms/call/video conference allah the pimp in hell.Ah but these are all inventions of kafirs and your allah could not even add simple fractions! So much for the pimp being god.
written by Reed Wilson , April 14, 2010
Healer_999. Your long post to dmu is very fascinating. You are so knowledgeable person.
You wished him 'all the best' after giving him so much indigestible food, is indicating your profound sense of humor.
Are you sure that Banu Qurayza - 900 Jewish men were beheaded? My reporters tell me that total number of BQ Jews were 455 out of which number some 33 were killed. There can be various reports. This history was not constructed in 1st century AH. Since there is no reliable history available, we have to believe what is available.
You wished him 'all the best' after giving him so much indigestible food, is indicating your profound sense of humor.
Are you sure that Banu Qurayza - 900 Jewish men were beheaded? My reporters tell me that total number of BQ Jews were 455 out of which number some 33 were killed. There can be various reports. This history was not constructed in 1st century AH. Since there is no reliable history available, we have to believe what is available.
written by duh_swami , April 14, 2010
Are you sure that Banu Qurayza - 900 Jewish men were beheaded? My reporters tell me that total number of BQ Jews were 455 out of which number some 33 were killed.
Your 'reporters' huh...Anyone can 'say' anything...how about some overwhelming and convincing evidence? Where did your 'reporters' get those numbers?
Your 'reporters' huh...Anyone can 'say' anything...how about some overwhelming and convincing evidence? Where did your 'reporters' get those numbers?
written by Healer_999 , April 14, 2010
I think the name is Zuwaria not Zafaria. Some one should correct me here. She was the princess of that tribe. Interesting thing was ( I think I read this from Sina's article) she was always found praying. Well if one wants to avoid sex with that beast what can be better way than to fool him using his own creation. But no one knows if that worked. But we have enough Hadiths which say wives are ungrateful to Husbands and majority of dwellers of hell are women.
So I guess it worked to an extent.
So I guess it worked to an extent.
written by duh_swami , April 14, 2010
majority of dwellers of hell are women
Since it would seem that Allah spends a lot of his time in hell, tending to the furnace, I wonder if all those women are there because he hates them or because he likes them...Maybe that's where he keeps spare virgins...Virgins are like auto tires, you never know when one will go flat, and you need a spare...
Since it would seem that Allah spends a lot of his time in hell, tending to the furnace, I wonder if all those women are there because he hates them or because he likes them...Maybe that's where he keeps spare virgins...Virgins are like auto tires, you never know when one will go flat, and you need a spare...
written by fineliving56 , April 14, 2010
like.....changeable flat auto tires.....lol
we wonder what else was flat !!!!!!!
we wonder what else was flat !!!!!!!
written by proudest_kafir , April 14, 2010
Last night the pimp allah spoke to me about the rates of 10 year old girls.Allah said why do you want it? If nits for the benefit of moslems I would let themknow myself.My share is 20% and my rasools percent is 20% AND aLLAH'S SHARE IS COLLECTED BY RASOOL HIMSELF FOR LATER TRANSFER TO ALLAH THE PIMP's account.
So allah will send you sms/ill be in touch with you soon
So allah will send you sms/ill be in touch with you soon
written by proudest_kafir , April 15, 2010
The new contraption for use by the devout moslems travelling by air.
This will fit in nicely in to your arse hole and will explode as soon as you play the qrandic verse. This will vibrate gently giving you the islamorgasm and this is just a preview! What you get in jannat when this expodes is well you know well.Dont you?
Islam is shit and there is no doubt.The problem is the stink and ugliness of this shit/islam is spiritual for a billion an dodd morons.
This will fit in nicely in to your arse hole and will explode as soon as you play the qrandic verse. This will vibrate gently giving you the islamorgasm and this is just a preview! What you get in jannat when this expodes is well you know well.Dont you?
Islam is shit and there is no doubt.The problem is the stink and ugliness of this shit/islam is spiritual for a billion an dodd morons.
written by Reed Wilson , April 19, 2010
To duh_swami. You write “Your 'reporters' huh...Anyone can 'say' anything...how about some overwhelming and convincing evidence? Where did your 'reporters' get those numbers? Yes duh-swami, anyone can say anything. This is what I have been trying to say in vein.
There is no ‘overwhelming and convincing evidence in history. Not even about crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Good you yourself realized.
There is no ‘overwhelming and convincing evidence in history. Not even about crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Good you yourself realized.
written by Reed Wilson , April 19, 2010
To duh_swami , You write “majority of dwellers of hell are women”. How you know?
Men may be in minority, but it should not absolve us of tension. If you believe in one God , do good deeds and have faith in life hereafter, you should not have fears. Promise!
Men may be in minority, but it should not absolve us of tension. If you believe in one God , do good deeds and have faith in life hereafter, you should not have fears. Promise!
written by proudest_kafir , April 19, 2010
of Reed is just a step away from apostasy. Now just refresh my memory. I thought the rapist rasool himself uttered those words saying that majority of dwellers of hell were women and so he tells the women to give alms.He also tells them they are deficient in intelligence etc.Now these uttered words of the rapist may not constitute qrand as they were uttered when the rapist was not in a trans. But then which part of what the rasool uttered is divine and which is not? Raping the kafirs? Is it a divine order? Killing the kafirs? Divine?Beating wife? A divine order indeed?
I think the qrand which Redd follows is all of one and half page at the most with 13 verses or so and the remaining qrand can easily stand in for toilet tissue
I think the qrand which Redd follows is all of one and half page at the most with 13 verses or so and the remaining qrand can easily stand in for toilet tissue
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"Of course, secular Muslims like Fatah would no problem when mentioned the same facts in front of Muslim audience to defend and glorify Islam, as occurred in Yemen or Indonesia. They will have problem with it, only when done so in a critical light, or on critical forums, and to largely non-Muslim audience."
Why is this? It looks like double standards in Muslim community pervades their life much more than we tend to think.
Other thing is if Muslims get rid of Koran, what will they have? I guess author is indirectly saying this problem will persist in Islam always.