Why adultery, one's 'democratic right to love', is needed to be dealt with reason, not brutality...
Adultery has been, and will continue to be a part of human existence, as long as has been the institution of marriage. Adultery produces intense emotions and creates conflict among the people involved, and between sexual desire and a sense of loyalty. Adultery has faced extensive challenges due to its criminalization or stigmatization by society.
The concept of adultery was born as a Judeo-Christian thought. The perception of adultery has varied greatly at different times, and varies in different cultures. The definition and consequences differ from person to person, based on a convergence of religion, culture, and legal jurisdiction, but the reason and the results are similar in Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism. In almost all religions and under religiously motivated laws, adultery is judged as illegal and immoral.
Adultery has been committed by people of all ages, casts, creeds and colors through the ages.
It has even found an important place in literature, including three plays of Shakespeare, widely regarded as the greatest English writer of all time. Those plays are "Othello", "The Winter's Tale", and "The Merry Wives of Windsor", where people's perception of adultery plays a significant part; still, the plays successfully hide a deeper anxiety about the betrayal of women.
Alfred Kinsey (d. 1956) -- an American biologist, professor of entomology, and founder of the Kinsey Institute for Research in Sex, Gender, and Reproduction -- conducted a comprehensive study that focused on adultery in America. Depending on studies, it was estimated that approximately 50 percent of all married males had some extramarital experience at some time during their married lives and 26 percent of females had extramarital sex by their forties.
In Western countries, adultery has been decriminalized, especially in the European Union, including Austria, the Netherlands, Belgium, Finland and Sweden. Whereas in other parts of the world, such as Asia and the Indian subcontinent, the scenario is completely different; adultery is still treated as a crime by the state and society. In the Philippines, adultery is considered a crime under the Revised Penal Code of the Philippines.
Adultery is treated most harshly, indeed sometimes barbarically, is Islam countries. In Saudi Arabia, adultery is treated as a capital crime, the punishment being stoning to death. In another Islamic country, Pakistan, adultery is a crime under the Hudood Ordinance and is punishable by death.
Islam prescribes ‘stoning to death’ as a punishment for adultery, established through the Hadith. The root of this punishment is the Qur'an. Quranic verses prohibiting adultery include:
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"Do not go near to adultery. Surely it is a shameful deed and evil, opening roads (to other evils)." [Qur'an 17:32]
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"Say, 'Verily, my Lord has prohibited the shameful deeds, be it open or secret, sins and trespasses against the truth and reason."' [Qur'an 7:33]
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"Women impure are for men impure, and men impure are for women impure and women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity." [Qur'an 24:26]
In Matthew's gospel, Christianity puts forth a more conservative view of adultery, saying: “But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart”. (Matthew 5:28)
Many people suffer on daily basis because of stigmatization or criminalization of extramarital relationships and adultery. A young Christian woman shared with me the following: "My husband has lived abroad for many years. I don’t know when he will be able to come back or when I will go to him. I have sexual desires. I don’t feel bad having sex with someone other than my husband, no matter what religion's and society's reasoning is.”
Another young woman shared with me the following: "I was bound to get married when I was 16. I didn't even know what sex was. I was forced to be in bed with a person I didn't know, and the wild man jumped at me and got his satisfaction, even though it hurt me. I never felt loved by him. Whatever others may say, I am free to enjoy my life and I am doing that. You can call that adultery. I am ready to be called an adulteress if you consider my love as adultery.”
Yet another young woman informed of how unsatisfied she is in sex her husband. She said: "I have no way to find a better life partner. I cannot think of loving or being loved by one person."
Henry Louis Mencken said, “Adultery is the application of democracy to love.”
Nations should formulate laws and moral ethics more rationally and sympathetically concerning adultery, so that people will not have to face anguishing situations, even brutality, such as in Islamic countries, over using their ‘‘democratic right to love”.
William Nicholas Gomes is a human rights activist and freelance journalist. He can be reached at This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .
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written by tanstaafl (JW) , December 12, 2009
"Let him who is without sin, cast the first stone."
written by duh_swami , December 12, 2009
It's a good thing for Tiger Woods and his many adulteresses, that they don't live in an Islamic sharia infected country...
written by Intelligent lad , December 12, 2009
Adultery was not a criminal offense in Ancient India ,much like today's Europe.
written by String Being , December 12, 2009
I don't care about a person's religion... religion is protected by the constitution, and you're a bigot if you lump all members of a religion under a term like "terrorist". As you know, Mohammed forbid people forcing religion on people.... but Sharia, now sharia is different. It is okay in Muslim thought to force sharia on people, because it's not religion.. it is Islamic "justice".
Terrorists are not Muslim, they are shariaists. Now I have a term for these violent people which is not objectionable or protected by law... not even law in some Muslim countries.
It might seem like a small thing, changing a word I use... but it is a great word, signifying something that "Muslim" doesn't signify. It will be acceptable to even liberal politicians to hate Sharia.
Terrorists are not Muslim, they are shariaists. Now I have a term for these violent people which is not objectionable or protected by law... not even law in some Muslim countries.
It might seem like a small thing, changing a word I use... but it is a great word, signifying something that "Muslim" doesn't signify. It will be acceptable to even liberal politicians to hate Sharia.
written by Truth Detector , December 12, 2009
Islam has a way to legalize sin anytime they want to. What is polygamy if not legalized adultery? Doesn't the Muslim husband leave one of his "wives" and takes up another? Yes. Of course, Muslims call it legal because he first "married" another woman. In reality, you and I know that the Muslim is actually committing legalized Islamic adultery.
Did you ever hear of an Islamic overnight stand with a whore? It's easy for a Muslim to commit adultery even "legally" with a whore. All Muslims have to do is have an Imam perform a sham "marriage." The Muslims have their fun for the night; the next day they say to the whore, "I divorce you" three times, hand them a fist full of Muslim coins and away they go on their merry way. Of course the Muslim Imam also gets a handful of Arab Muslim coins for having performed a Muslim "marriage" a la Islam.
Oh, hell no, there is no hypocrisy here, not for a Muslim. The whoremonger Muslim bastards legally "married," a la Islam, the whore for an overnight stand.
Islam sins in many ways and gets away with it by merely saying that "it's the custom," or "It's legal jurisprudence of Islam." For example, it's the "custom" for old depraved Muslim male sex perverts to legally kidnap little girls, then force the helpless little girls to "marry" them. This, of course, gives the depraved Muslim male sex perverts the right to legally rape the little girls. Do they ask the little girls if they like this "custom"? Hell no. Little girls have nothing to say about. But they do have the right to cry and scream bloody murder. Incidentally, who made that "custom"? Well, it's the old depraved Muslim male sex perverts who made it a "custom." They learned well from paedophile, child molester, diaper chaser Muhammad.
I've studied Islam since 9/11, and I've noticed that Islam treats hatred as if it were a virtue. There is very little divine love in Islam, but there is plenty of carnal love. In fact, if you look closely, you'll see that Islam revolves around hatred and illegal sex, for example, the kidnapping of little girls, forcing them to marry against their will, and then raping them with impunity.
Hatred in Islam is everywhere, even when Muslims teach they "are the best of people." It's a subtle statement, but there is much hatred in that statement. What's the meaning of this? For one thing, it means that everyone else is beneath the Muslims. Anyone else can be a "monkey," a "pig" or just plain scum. Where is the humility of Muslims, "the best of people"? There isn't any. It's all Muslim hatred and arrogance. So you see, in reality, the evil Muslims are living in constant sins. Later, I'll point out more Muslim sin.
Did you ever hear of an Islamic overnight stand with a whore? It's easy for a Muslim to commit adultery even "legally" with a whore. All Muslims have to do is have an Imam perform a sham "marriage." The Muslims have their fun for the night; the next day they say to the whore, "I divorce you" three times, hand them a fist full of Muslim coins and away they go on their merry way. Of course the Muslim Imam also gets a handful of Arab Muslim coins for having performed a Muslim "marriage" a la Islam.
Oh, hell no, there is no hypocrisy here, not for a Muslim. The whoremonger Muslim bastards legally "married," a la Islam, the whore for an overnight stand.
Islam sins in many ways and gets away with it by merely saying that "it's the custom," or "It's legal jurisprudence of Islam." For example, it's the "custom" for old depraved Muslim male sex perverts to legally kidnap little girls, then force the helpless little girls to "marry" them. This, of course, gives the depraved Muslim male sex perverts the right to legally rape the little girls. Do they ask the little girls if they like this "custom"? Hell no. Little girls have nothing to say about. But they do have the right to cry and scream bloody murder. Incidentally, who made that "custom"? Well, it's the old depraved Muslim male sex perverts who made it a "custom." They learned well from paedophile, child molester, diaper chaser Muhammad.
I've studied Islam since 9/11, and I've noticed that Islam treats hatred as if it were a virtue. There is very little divine love in Islam, but there is plenty of carnal love. In fact, if you look closely, you'll see that Islam revolves around hatred and illegal sex, for example, the kidnapping of little girls, forcing them to marry against their will, and then raping them with impunity.
Hatred in Islam is everywhere, even when Muslims teach they "are the best of people." It's a subtle statement, but there is much hatred in that statement. What's the meaning of this? For one thing, it means that everyone else is beneath the Muslims. Anyone else can be a "monkey," a "pig" or just plain scum. Where is the humility of Muslims, "the best of people"? There isn't any. It's all Muslim hatred and arrogance. So you see, in reality, the evil Muslims are living in constant sins. Later, I'll point out more Muslim sin.
written by duh_swami , December 12, 2009
S.B...you're a bigot if you lump all members of a religion under a term like "terrorist"
Terrorism is a 'tactic' used by jihadists...Jihad is an 'obligation' on all Muslims...
Allah identifies himself as a terrorist 8:12 ' I shall terrorize the infidels'.
Bukhari:V4B52N220 "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been made victorious with terror.'"
S.B...Mohammed forbid people forcing religion on people..
Qur'an 2:256 "There is no compulsion in religion" this verse is abrogated, and replaced by 8:39 and others like it...
Try 8:39...'And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do'.
S.B...Terrorists are not Muslim, they are shariaists.
Sharia is Allah's law...It is not separate from him...No one can divorce him from it...All Muslims are Shariaists, or they are not Muslims...A Muslim who exempts himself from Allah's law is an apostate...
However I agree with you that a kufrs hate of sharia is an appropriate reaction...
I don't know about you, but I don't allow any of that stuff around here...
Terrorism is a 'tactic' used by jihadists...Jihad is an 'obligation' on all Muslims...
Allah identifies himself as a terrorist 8:12 ' I shall terrorize the infidels'.
Bukhari:V4B52N220 "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been made victorious with terror.'"
S.B...Mohammed forbid people forcing religion on people..
Qur'an 2:256 "There is no compulsion in religion" this verse is abrogated, and replaced by 8:39 and others like it...
Try 8:39...'And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do'.
S.B...Terrorists are not Muslim, they are shariaists.
Sharia is Allah's law...It is not separate from him...No one can divorce him from it...All Muslims are Shariaists, or they are not Muslims...A Muslim who exempts himself from Allah's law is an apostate...
However I agree with you that a kufrs hate of sharia is an appropriate reaction...
I don't know about you, but I don't allow any of that stuff around here...
written by Clement , December 12, 2009
Somebody said Islam is penis-worshipper cult belief system. It is hyposcrisy to pass death sentense to adulterers especially when it has always been women that suffer under the sharia law, men are free to have sin partners call wives and if a woman desire an extra-marrital relationship she is stoned to death. Here men are set at edge to blow up themselves in a suicide bombts in anticipation of 72 heavenly virgins waiting for a treat.They take pride to grow beards as a sign of manhood just to frighten the femalefolks. women are oppressed locked in homes just to breed and satisfy the man with sex as he wants. Their allah says he created man in pairs but he made man equal to 4 females in the mater of marriage, what a contradictions. No difference with the animals like goats and sheep. Go to Jesus for godly standard of morallity that will take you to heaven. Any man that looks at a woman to lust after her in his heart has commited adultery already in his heart. If penis worship is your god then go to Islam.
written by duh_swami , December 12, 2009
Islam is chuck full of sex symbolism...Even blowing themselves up is a climax...
But don't encourage penis worshippers to go to Islam...It would be better to encourage penis worshippers to abandon Islam and take up pornography and a life of debauchery...Many of the Saudi royals have discovered this method, but they don't abandon Islam...Instead the hypocrites fly to Las Vegas and spend millions sinning...Well, that's between them and Allah, but the fact remains, those who debauch and view pornography have little energy or time to get into other forms of trouble...
But don't encourage penis worshippers to go to Islam...It would be better to encourage penis worshippers to abandon Islam and take up pornography and a life of debauchery...Many of the Saudi royals have discovered this method, but they don't abandon Islam...Instead the hypocrites fly to Las Vegas and spend millions sinning...Well, that's between them and Allah, but the fact remains, those who debauch and view pornography have little energy or time to get into other forms of trouble...
written by LASHKER EEI TOIIBA , December 14, 2009
so called monogamy is highly overrated.
written by Machmoed elchalid , December 14, 2009
Monogamy, polygamy. Both are natural. Some animals behave monogam and some animals behave polygam. Both occure in nature. So it is a human concept...like Good and evil. In reality they only exist because of the other.
written by wondering , December 14, 2009
The pagan Arabs worshipped the Moon-god Allah by praying toward Mecca several times a day; making a pilgrimage to Mecca; running around the temple of the Moon-god called the Kabah; kissing the black stone; killing an animal in sacrifice to the Moon-god; throwing stones at the devil; fasting for the month which begins and ends with the crescent moon; giving alms to the poor, etc.
The Muslim's claim that Allah is the God of the Bible and that Islam arose from the religion of the prophets and apostles is refuted by solid, overwhelming archeological evidence. Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult. It has taken the symbols, the rites, the ceremonies, and even the name of its god from the ancient pagan religion of the Moon-god. As such, it is sheer idolatry and must be rejected by all those who follow the Torah and Gospel.
The Muslim's claim that Allah is the God of the Bible and that Islam arose from the religion of the prophets and apostles is refuted by solid, overwhelming archeological evidence. Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult. It has taken the symbols, the rites, the ceremonies, and even the name of its god from the ancient pagan religion of the Moon-god. As such, it is sheer idolatry and must be rejected by all those who follow the Torah and Gospel.
written by duh_swami , December 14, 2009
wondering...Allah is the Chaldean Moon god Sin with another name in another incarnation...One of the meanings for the word 'Chaldee' is demon...Ur of the Chaldee's then, means light of the demons...Every sort of black magick was common in Chaldea...When Abraham, if he actually existed, left Chaldea, he was probably sick of the demonic influences in the area...Mohammad revived the demon, and named him Allah...
written by Clement , December 14, 2009
"Some animals behave monogam and some animals behave polygam."
As far as I know marriage is one of those things that distinguishes man from othe animals because animals don't married but they have sex with the opposit sex and procreat. Monogamy is a revelation from the creator of man to keep to one partner because that was the plan from the begining and is only in the Bible that this truth was made known. The quran revelation is not better than other animals who do not marrybut have community of wives as in Islam. Imaging one man keeping four women in the name of marriage. This is beastly. The world demography does not even support one man having 2 women for himself.There are more countries with more men population than women but in all it will average one to one in accordance with God's plan. For what reason can the same God permit one man to four women? This is where once again the moon god of Islam goofed. Islam is fake and evil iit was not created by all knowing God. If you have brain on this truth alone you willl run away from the cult.
As far as I know marriage is one of those things that distinguishes man from othe animals because animals don't married but they have sex with the opposit sex and procreat. Monogamy is a revelation from the creator of man to keep to one partner because that was the plan from the begining and is only in the Bible that this truth was made known. The quran revelation is not better than other animals who do not marrybut have community of wives as in Islam. Imaging one man keeping four women in the name of marriage. This is beastly. The world demography does not even support one man having 2 women for himself.There are more countries with more men population than women but in all it will average one to one in accordance with God's plan. For what reason can the same God permit one man to four women? This is where once again the moon god of Islam goofed. Islam is fake and evil iit was not created by all knowing God. If you have brain on this truth alone you willl run away from the cult.
written by duh_swami , December 14, 2009
As far as I know marriage is one of those things that distinguishes man from other animals...
One of the main things that distinguishes man from animals is our ability to control and use fire....We can't always control fire, like in a wild fire, but animals can never control it...We use tools, like tongs, and pokers etc...animals can't do that...Also animals don't build sky scraper buildings with elevators...However when the 'good book' said that God gave man 'domination' over the animals, that is not true in all instances...Snakes will bite you, and lions and tigers and bears, will eat you...We can't stay under water or fly without contraptions...What man is good for is being the Earth stewards, because, unlike other animals, man has the ability to figure every thing out and do something about it...Islam because of being Islamically retarded has never been very good at problem solving, so they don't make for good Earth Stewards...If it does not come from the Quran, Mohammad, or Sharia, they don't understand it...People of the Book sometimes make the same mistake...
One of the main things that distinguishes man from animals is our ability to control and use fire....We can't always control fire, like in a wild fire, but animals can never control it...We use tools, like tongs, and pokers etc...animals can't do that...Also animals don't build sky scraper buildings with elevators...However when the 'good book' said that God gave man 'domination' over the animals, that is not true in all instances...Snakes will bite you, and lions and tigers and bears, will eat you...We can't stay under water or fly without contraptions...What man is good for is being the Earth stewards, because, unlike other animals, man has the ability to figure every thing out and do something about it...Islam because of being Islamically retarded has never been very good at problem solving, so they don't make for good Earth Stewards...If it does not come from the Quran, Mohammad, or Sharia, they don't understand it...People of the Book sometimes make the same mistake...
written by JohanM , December 14, 2009
Sunni muslims do misyar nikah and Shia muslims do mutah nikah. Both these systems are actually Islamic way of adultery.
Today in holiest of holy land of Saudi Arabia 7 out of 10 marriages are actually misyar nikah. Even Saudi Arabian sources accept this. 45% percent of Riyadh's (capital of saudi arabia) have become gays and lesbians due to the extreme seperation of the sexes. Pakistani Punjabis and Pathans are notorious for their homosexuality.
Arabian oldies go to the coutries like Pakistan, Bangladesh and muslim dominated areas of India (i.e. Hyderabad, Secunderabad) and marry the little girls by paying their parents and holy Mullahs. After spending few days they devorce the young girls and another set of oldies arrive. Some oldies take these young brides alongwith them and made them a servent bride in their houses for free. If you ever visit the countries like UAE you will see only women beggers with 1 or 2 young kids in their laps. These are the same unfortunate brides whom they left.
Today in holiest of holy land of Saudi Arabia 7 out of 10 marriages are actually misyar nikah. Even Saudi Arabian sources accept this. 45% percent of Riyadh's (capital of saudi arabia) have become gays and lesbians due to the extreme seperation of the sexes. Pakistani Punjabis and Pathans are notorious for their homosexuality.
Arabian oldies go to the coutries like Pakistan, Bangladesh and muslim dominated areas of India (i.e. Hyderabad, Secunderabad) and marry the little girls by paying their parents and holy Mullahs. After spending few days they devorce the young girls and another set of oldies arrive. Some oldies take these young brides alongwith them and made them a servent bride in their houses for free. If you ever visit the countries like UAE you will see only women beggers with 1 or 2 young kids in their laps. These are the same unfortunate brides whom they left.
written by Machmoed elchalid , December 15, 2009
Monogamy is a revelation from the creator of man to keep to one partner because that was the plan from the begining and is only in the Bible that this truth was made known.
Monogamy? Why did moses have 3 wifes/slaves? Or didn't you know he had them?
Why did God create polygamy and why behave some animals homosexual? Is it Satan? or is it whithin the possibility's God made in his creation and therefor it was ment to be? I'm afraid the creation of God refutes your believings
Monogamy? Why did moses have 3 wifes/slaves? Or didn't you know he had them?
Why did God create polygamy and why behave some animals homosexual? Is it Satan? or is it whithin the possibility's God made in his creation and therefor it was ment to be? I'm afraid the creation of God refutes your believings
written by Clement , December 15, 2009
This is where the Bible is unique from any so called scriptures of the pagans. The command "thou shall not commit adultery" is very clear in the Bible. Jesus taught that in the begining God created them male and female not male and females. The fact that men fine plasure in having more than one wife in the old Testament and even in our Times in disobedient to Gods commandment does not make the commandment of God of no effect.Moses had only one wife where did you get your information not the Bible of course.The truth is that even some prophets and kings had more than one wife,like David, even at a time Abraham had a maid as a wife but did God approve of it? The fact was that both prophets and kings recorded their own punishment when the disobeyed God, makes the God of the Bible no respecter of persons. unlike the Quran where selfserving and made to order verses are revealed to cover and make Mohammed look good.Machmoed you have goofed here again Moses was not among those who had more than one wife. The issue is not having more than one wife but whether that was the will of God is main issue. Man can do what he wants but the word of God stands for ever.
written by duh_swami , December 15, 2009
did God approve of it?
Now that's a good question...'God' approves of every event or they wouldn't happen...Or is it your contention that 'God' stands outside, taking names of transgressors but is helpless in stopping their transgressions...Lots of religious people claim that they talk to God, and they know God, and know what God wants...You know, that's major ego tripping...This is pretending to know something you can't possibly know, and actually take it on faith...Faith is belief in the unknown, and unseen, so the faithful really don't know what they are talking about, but talk a lot about it just the same...The Bible is not a book to be believed...It is to be understood...a person either understands it or they don't...The book itself say's 'In all your getting, get understanding'...That's one of the wisest gems of wisdom in the Bible...More Christians should ponder that...
Now that's a good question...'God' approves of every event or they wouldn't happen...Or is it your contention that 'God' stands outside, taking names of transgressors but is helpless in stopping their transgressions...Lots of religious people claim that they talk to God, and they know God, and know what God wants...You know, that's major ego tripping...This is pretending to know something you can't possibly know, and actually take it on faith...Faith is belief in the unknown, and unseen, so the faithful really don't know what they are talking about, but talk a lot about it just the same...The Bible is not a book to be believed...It is to be understood...a person either understands it or they don't...The book itself say's 'In all your getting, get understanding'...That's one of the wisest gems of wisdom in the Bible...More Christians should ponder that...
written by Machmoed elchalid , December 15, 2009
"Moses had only one wife where did you get your information not the Bible of course."
The holy prophet Moses was the meekest man "above all the men which were upon the face of the earth" (at his time). (Numbers 12:3.)
The Spirit of God was upon Moses. (Numbers 11:17.)
And Moses had two wives.
1) Zipporah: Exodus 2:15-16,21 and Exodus 18:1-6
2) Ethiopian woman: Numbers 12:1(-15)
Zipporah was not the "Ethiopian woman" herself. Zipporah was of the tribe of Midian. Genesis 25:1-3 shows that Midian was one of the six sons born unto Abraham by his third wife, Keturah. Thus, Zipporah was "Abrahamic", who was "Shemitic" (i.e., descended of Noah's son Shem, per Genesis 10:1; 11:11-27). But the "Ethiopian woman" ("Cushite woman" in the Hebrew) descended of Cush, who was "Hamitic" (i.e., descended of Noah's son Ham, per Genesis 10:1,6). Indeed, Zipporah, being of Noah's son, Shem, could not be the "Ethiopian woman" who was of Ham (Shem's brother).
Also, the timing of Moses' marriage to the Ethiopian woman can be determined by Numbers 33:1-49,17 and 11:35 with 12:16 which "surrounds" the story about Moses marrying the Ethiopian woman in Numbers 12:1-15. This is clearly much later than the time when Moses married Zipporah in Exodus 2:15,22.
Therefore, the Shemitic/Abrahamic Midianitess Zipporah could not possibly be the Hamitic/non-Abrahamic "Ethiopian woman".
For anyone who would attempt to assert that "Zipporah was dead" by the time that Moses married the Ethiopian woman, they are the ones who have the "burden of proof" to demonstrate and validate their assertion.
After all, the principle of "assumed status quo" logic mandates that, unless otherwise specifically reported otherwise, one must believe that the status quo remains. For example, as long as a man's wife is still alive, he does not walk around reporting that she is still alive! People naturally accept the "status quo" remains (i.e., that she is still alive) until otherwise reported. It is only when there is a reported change to the status quo that one then accepts the change. But until such a change is reported, logic "assumes the status quo" remains.
As such, the "burden of proof" in the assertion about Zipporah is upon those who would assert that Moses supposedly married the Ethiopian woman after "Zipporah had (supposedly) died". Conversely, those who logically believe otherwise have no such "burden of proof" at all.
The absolutely undeniable fact is that there is not one single verse in the Bible to substantiate such an assertion that "Zipporah (supposedly) had died". As such, the argument wholly fails exegetically to prove itself.
As such, it is wholly logical to simply and reasonably "assume the status quo" remains, believing that Zipporah was, of course, alive too when Moses married the Ethiopian woman.
With this realized, that Moses was a polygamist himself who (mortally) wrote the books of Genesis through Deuteronomy, this fact must always be remembered for exegetical context when reading those five books of the Bible and when using their passages for doctrine. "Remember Moses wrote it"
P.s.: What about David and Salomo? How many wifes did they have?
The holy prophet Moses was the meekest man "above all the men which were upon the face of the earth" (at his time). (Numbers 12:3.)
The Spirit of God was upon Moses. (Numbers 11:17.)
And Moses had two wives.
1) Zipporah: Exodus 2:15-16,21 and Exodus 18:1-6
2) Ethiopian woman: Numbers 12:1(-15)
Zipporah was not the "Ethiopian woman" herself. Zipporah was of the tribe of Midian. Genesis 25:1-3 shows that Midian was one of the six sons born unto Abraham by his third wife, Keturah. Thus, Zipporah was "Abrahamic", who was "Shemitic" (i.e., descended of Noah's son Shem, per Genesis 10:1; 11:11-27). But the "Ethiopian woman" ("Cushite woman" in the Hebrew) descended of Cush, who was "Hamitic" (i.e., descended of Noah's son Ham, per Genesis 10:1,6). Indeed, Zipporah, being of Noah's son, Shem, could not be the "Ethiopian woman" who was of Ham (Shem's brother).
Also, the timing of Moses' marriage to the Ethiopian woman can be determined by Numbers 33:1-49,17 and 11:35 with 12:16 which "surrounds" the story about Moses marrying the Ethiopian woman in Numbers 12:1-15. This is clearly much later than the time when Moses married Zipporah in Exodus 2:15,22.
Therefore, the Shemitic/Abrahamic Midianitess Zipporah could not possibly be the Hamitic/non-Abrahamic "Ethiopian woman".
For anyone who would attempt to assert that "Zipporah was dead" by the time that Moses married the Ethiopian woman, they are the ones who have the "burden of proof" to demonstrate and validate their assertion.
After all, the principle of "assumed status quo" logic mandates that, unless otherwise specifically reported otherwise, one must believe that the status quo remains. For example, as long as a man's wife is still alive, he does not walk around reporting that she is still alive! People naturally accept the "status quo" remains (i.e., that she is still alive) until otherwise reported. It is only when there is a reported change to the status quo that one then accepts the change. But until such a change is reported, logic "assumes the status quo" remains.
As such, the "burden of proof" in the assertion about Zipporah is upon those who would assert that Moses supposedly married the Ethiopian woman after "Zipporah had (supposedly) died". Conversely, those who logically believe otherwise have no such "burden of proof" at all.
The absolutely undeniable fact is that there is not one single verse in the Bible to substantiate such an assertion that "Zipporah (supposedly) had died". As such, the argument wholly fails exegetically to prove itself.
As such, it is wholly logical to simply and reasonably "assume the status quo" remains, believing that Zipporah was, of course, alive too when Moses married the Ethiopian woman.
With this realized, that Moses was a polygamist himself who (mortally) wrote the books of Genesis through Deuteronomy, this fact must always be remembered for exegetical context when reading those five books of the Bible and when using their passages for doctrine. "Remember Moses wrote it"
P.s.: What about David and Salomo? How many wifes did they have?
written by Clement , December 15, 2009
Those analysis can be logical but not a proof.If I call you an American am I wrong? No but are you truely by birth an American? No .Remember it was out of scorn that Merrian and Aaron sacarsicaly called Ziporah an Ethopian woman not that she was from Ethopia. Ethopia was a Region covering all the sinai penisular and the environ including the land of Midian.It was not another woman,but the same Ziporah the daughter of Jethro the priest of median who lived in the Region of Ethopia. We never heard that there was a wedding ceremony of Moses during his 40 years of leading the children of Israel in the wilderness or don't you think that would have been a good news to be recorded of a Man of God like Moses? Matthew Henry a notable Bible commentator commented in respect those verses thus: Num 12:1-3
(1.) About his marriage: some think a late marriage with a Cushite or Arabian; others because of Zipporah, whom on this occasion they called, in scorn, an Ethiopian woman, and who, they insinuated, had too great an influence upon Moses in the choice of these seventy elders. Perhaps there was some private falling out between Zipporah and Miriam, which occasioned some hot words, and one peevish reflection introduced another, till Moses and Aaron came to be interested.
(from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.)
As for David and solomon didn't you read what they reaped as a result of marriage execesses? God is not a respecter of any person whether a prophet or anointed king in Israel or any other nation of the world.
(1.) About his marriage: some think a late marriage with a Cushite or Arabian; others because of Zipporah, whom on this occasion they called, in scorn, an Ethiopian woman, and who, they insinuated, had too great an influence upon Moses in the choice of these seventy elders. Perhaps there was some private falling out between Zipporah and Miriam, which occasioned some hot words, and one peevish reflection introduced another, till Moses and Aaron came to be interested.
(from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.)
As for David and solomon didn't you read what they reaped as a result of marriage execesses? God is not a respecter of any person whether a prophet or anointed king in Israel or any other nation of the world.
written by Machmoed elchalid , December 16, 2009
"Once again you are logically wrong Machmoed"
The story wich i posted is written by someone who understands the hebrew language and believe me....he is right and as it says...you have to come with proof. Furthermore...the thora is a lie because Moses never wrote it, as you know. So what are we talking about. If you even don't believe this (that it was not written by Moses), then i'm afraid you not a seeker for the truth. The Isrealiens are actually kannanites, they never went from Egypt to Isreal, but it were kannanites who went to Isreal.....no moses...no large numbers of slaves in the peninsula of Egypt...nothing! didn't you see bible uncovered the day before yesterday......God/Moses was never mentioned. It were the Kannanites.
The story wich i posted is written by someone who understands the hebrew language and believe me....he is right and as it says...you have to come with proof. Furthermore...the thora is a lie because Moses never wrote it, as you know. So what are we talking about. If you even don't believe this (that it was not written by Moses), then i'm afraid you not a seeker for the truth. The Isrealiens are actually kannanites, they never went from Egypt to Isreal, but it were kannanites who went to Isreal.....no moses...no large numbers of slaves in the peninsula of Egypt...nothing! didn't you see bible uncovered the day before yesterday......God/Moses was never mentioned. It were the Kannanites.
written by Clement , December 16, 2009
Machmoed: why are you using Bible materials that you never believe to be true?
Ethiopia as mentioned in the Bible was not the same as demarcated by colonial master today read Genesis 2:13 “ And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia”. and Esther 1:1“Now it came to pass in the days of Ahasuerus, (this is Ahasuerus which reigned, from India even unto Ethiopia, over an hundred and seven and twenty provinces:)”KJV
Also read this link in ancient history: http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/we/we17.htm The ancient land of Ethiopia extended from southern costal land of India, Arabia and Africa. Just like Americas is made of north and south. Is like when you talk of Americas and unless you specified which part no one knows what you are talking about. The same, calling Ziporah with scorn did not mean she was an Ethiopian citizen as we know today but could be from the province of Ethiopia as there were no further Biblical support to the contrary. I believed this put paid to your objections.
The point really is not that if Moses married more than one wife that would have made him not being qualified as man of God, no ,it only support the ward of God that all men have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. No man is free from sin. Men are used by God because of his grace not because of their righteousness. After all Moses also sinned and that was why God could not allowed him to enter the Promised Land but he was not guilty of marriage excesses like David and Solomon but guilty of other form of disobedience to God command which amount to the same because he was a mortal man like you and me. Be we all can be saved by his grace through faith in the atoning blood of Jesus Christ whom God sent to be our saviour. Rom 3: 23-26
In another post I will tell you why you should believe the Bible
Cheers.
Ethiopia as mentioned in the Bible was not the same as demarcated by colonial master today read Genesis 2:13 “ And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia”. and Esther 1:1“Now it came to pass in the days of Ahasuerus, (this is Ahasuerus which reigned, from India even unto Ethiopia, over an hundred and seven and twenty provinces:)”KJV
Also read this link in ancient history: http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/we/we17.htm The ancient land of Ethiopia extended from southern costal land of India, Arabia and Africa. Just like Americas is made of north and south. Is like when you talk of Americas and unless you specified which part no one knows what you are talking about. The same, calling Ziporah with scorn did not mean she was an Ethiopian citizen as we know today but could be from the province of Ethiopia as there were no further Biblical support to the contrary. I believed this put paid to your objections.
The point really is not that if Moses married more than one wife that would have made him not being qualified as man of God, no ,it only support the ward of God that all men have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. No man is free from sin. Men are used by God because of his grace not because of their righteousness. After all Moses also sinned and that was why God could not allowed him to enter the Promised Land but he was not guilty of marriage excesses like David and Solomon but guilty of other form of disobedience to God command which amount to the same because he was a mortal man like you and me. Be we all can be saved by his grace through faith in the atoning blood of Jesus Christ whom God sent to be our saviour. Rom 3: 23-26
In another post I will tell you why you should believe the Bible
Cheers.
written by Clement , December 16, 2009
What are the proofs that the Bible is the word of God and not Jewish fable or folklore?
1.The intelligent transmission and consistencies of Bible revelation of God’s plan of salvation which span over 2000 years without contradictions is exceptionally revealing to the understanding minds.
2.40 inspired authors penned down the 66 books of the Bible living in different places and generations over 1500 years among which were kings, peasants, philosophers, fishermen, poets, statesmen, scholars, a herdsman, a general, a cupbearer, a doctor, a tax collector, and a rabbi. It was written on three continents: Asia, Africa, and Europe, and in three languages: Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Its subject matter includes hundreds of controversial topics, yet from Genesis right on through to Revelation the authors all spoke with harmony and continuity on the theme of the unfolding story of "God's redemption of humanity." yet without contradicting each other an indication of a common inspiration.
3.Fulfilment of prophesies and some still being fulfilled in our generation. Israel now living as nation surrounded by 1.4b enemies of Islam yet not been defeated in any battle with the Arabs in accordance with God covenant with them is a living example.
4.The recorded Miracles and current miracle being performed by those who believe in the Bible. So that the miracles are not only historical but living and experiential an evidence of divine manifestation. Its impartiality in judgement is particularly revealing. The facts that its prophets , kings and messengers were not spare from judgement and punishment when they erred or committed sins makes it unique and different from man-made religions where their so-called prophets are given special dispensation above ordinary people. Like in Islam the prophet can have more than 4 wives where the lesser mortals cannot not , he can commit incest, rape slave women, murder, assassinate, commit paedophilia (child abuse) all at the permission of his Allah. The present world terrorism masterminded by Islam is all carried out by the authority of this demented god called Allah.
5.The power of transforming grace being witnessed in our time in the life of those who believe the Bible. We see thieves, arm rubbers, adulterers, drug addict, smokers, and drunkards being transformed for good by the power of the gospel of Christ. We have seen Christians or organisations and missionaries building schools, hospitals, orphanages, churches for healing, deliverance, and have affected lives of people positively all over the world. The fruits of love, peace , joy, longsuffering ,compassion, mercies, forgiveness, care for one another, goodness, humility are indication of the goodness of the source of inspiration which is God.
6.The universality of Bible Message being applicable at all time to all people without exception especially the central message which centres on love and the golden rule. This agrees with human nature and instinct.
7.The message of the Bible appeals to the nature and conscience of man mankind it is not only sacred to a few who hear or received it but to all who would allow their natural good instinct to prevail over evil. http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/index.htm
I am yet to read or see of any scripture with proofs like that of the Bible. A book that is all time best seller, translated in most of the languages of the world and a reader-friendly as the Bible. Take the Quran for example has only one author Mohammed living in one place in one generation in just 23years period never heard from God directly, no miracle, no intelligent transmission of the message full of contradictions, meaningless repetition, without context not reader-friendly with few translation from its original Arabic language, no prophesy, no history, no parable, no proverbs or wise sayings, only mendacity and delusional message that have no relevance in time and in eternity yet is passed as scripture to more than 1.4billion people.
Machmoed use your reasoning faculty rightly.
1.The intelligent transmission and consistencies of Bible revelation of God’s plan of salvation which span over 2000 years without contradictions is exceptionally revealing to the understanding minds.
2.40 inspired authors penned down the 66 books of the Bible living in different places and generations over 1500 years among which were kings, peasants, philosophers, fishermen, poets, statesmen, scholars, a herdsman, a general, a cupbearer, a doctor, a tax collector, and a rabbi. It was written on three continents: Asia, Africa, and Europe, and in three languages: Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Its subject matter includes hundreds of controversial topics, yet from Genesis right on through to Revelation the authors all spoke with harmony and continuity on the theme of the unfolding story of "God's redemption of humanity." yet without contradicting each other an indication of a common inspiration.
3.Fulfilment of prophesies and some still being fulfilled in our generation. Israel now living as nation surrounded by 1.4b enemies of Islam yet not been defeated in any battle with the Arabs in accordance with God covenant with them is a living example.
4.The recorded Miracles and current miracle being performed by those who believe in the Bible. So that the miracles are not only historical but living and experiential an evidence of divine manifestation. Its impartiality in judgement is particularly revealing. The facts that its prophets , kings and messengers were not spare from judgement and punishment when they erred or committed sins makes it unique and different from man-made religions where their so-called prophets are given special dispensation above ordinary people. Like in Islam the prophet can have more than 4 wives where the lesser mortals cannot not , he can commit incest, rape slave women, murder, assassinate, commit paedophilia (child abuse) all at the permission of his Allah. The present world terrorism masterminded by Islam is all carried out by the authority of this demented god called Allah.
5.The power of transforming grace being witnessed in our time in the life of those who believe the Bible. We see thieves, arm rubbers, adulterers, drug addict, smokers, and drunkards being transformed for good by the power of the gospel of Christ. We have seen Christians or organisations and missionaries building schools, hospitals, orphanages, churches for healing, deliverance, and have affected lives of people positively all over the world. The fruits of love, peace , joy, longsuffering ,compassion, mercies, forgiveness, care for one another, goodness, humility are indication of the goodness of the source of inspiration which is God.
6.The universality of Bible Message being applicable at all time to all people without exception especially the central message which centres on love and the golden rule. This agrees with human nature and instinct.
7.The message of the Bible appeals to the nature and conscience of man mankind it is not only sacred to a few who hear or received it but to all who would allow their natural good instinct to prevail over evil. http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/index.htm
I am yet to read or see of any scripture with proofs like that of the Bible. A book that is all time best seller, translated in most of the languages of the world and a reader-friendly as the Bible. Take the Quran for example has only one author Mohammed living in one place in one generation in just 23years period never heard from God directly, no miracle, no intelligent transmission of the message full of contradictions, meaningless repetition, without context not reader-friendly with few translation from its original Arabic language, no prophesy, no history, no parable, no proverbs or wise sayings, only mendacity and delusional message that have no relevance in time and in eternity yet is passed as scripture to more than 1.4billion people.
Machmoed use your reasoning faculty rightly.
written by Parviz , December 16, 2009
Dear Clement,
I have read the discussions you have had with Machmoed which to me is of no consequence to our eternal salvation at all. He goes to some books or web site like Acharya's or some other anti-Christian outfit, copies and pastes a page or two here as fact when in really, as far as we can tell, none of it is fact. I can cook up stories as well.
But you know as well as I that in Christianity we have "Doctrines " as laid down by the Lord Himself and by the "Apostles". These are indisputable and are foundation of the faith, such as " redemption and justification by faith, " sanctification ", the doctrine of Trinity and so on. Then there are things that are matter of " Opinion " as we read in Romans Chapter 14, where Paul talks about whether we should eat meat sacrificed to an idol, or is it better to be vegetarian or eat meat, whether to eat this and that in the presence of somebody with weak faith, etc. These are not basic to the faith but not bad to consider. Paul indicates that this is his opinion and not from God.
Now about marriage, the scriptures are very clear, and if I may, let me add the following.
As you know the Law came about 1500 BC through Moses and Abraham lived 500 years before then at about 2000 BC. So these marriage laws did not apply to Abraham, and at one time even close relatives married one another and that was acceptable. For example, at the time of Adam and Eve, we read in Genesis that their children married the Sons and Daughters of God, which where angelic creatures, then as population grew brothers and sisters married, cousins and what have you. The genetic make up was still pure and there was no reason for not marrying within close relatives . 2500 years later after Adam and Eve came the Law, and people who did marry to more than one wife or committed adultery were obviously committing sin. It wasn't God's way but man's sinful nature was fully in operation as it is today. But from the time of Jesus on we must separate the dispensation of " Law " from the dispensation of " Grace ". Everything changed and the two are so radically different. And what Jesus said and what Paul taught was that one man and one woman should be married to each other. Jesus forbade divorce but only in the case of adultery. If a man divorced his wife for any other reason and the divorced wife remarried another man, both that man and the woman would be in an adulterous relationship. The scripture is very very clear about this fact. Who ever wants to muddy and twist the teachings of the New Testaments, is introducing another " gospel " which Paul says; " if anyone, man or an angel brings you another gospel other that what you have received, let him be accursed ".
At issue should be what the Qur'an and the New Testament say about the institution of marriage. Where Christianity was / is the religion of the land a man having more than one wife at the same time goes to jail. In Islam the more wives one has he is more respected in his society, specially if he has slew of sons. And I have read in different places that Muhammad had between 11 and 44 wives. That is the example for the Muslims. Needless to say that in Western societies some men struggle with one wife !!!
I have read the discussions you have had with Machmoed which to me is of no consequence to our eternal salvation at all. He goes to some books or web site like Acharya's or some other anti-Christian outfit, copies and pastes a page or two here as fact when in really, as far as we can tell, none of it is fact. I can cook up stories as well.
But you know as well as I that in Christianity we have "Doctrines " as laid down by the Lord Himself and by the "Apostles". These are indisputable and are foundation of the faith, such as " redemption and justification by faith, " sanctification ", the doctrine of Trinity and so on. Then there are things that are matter of " Opinion " as we read in Romans Chapter 14, where Paul talks about whether we should eat meat sacrificed to an idol, or is it better to be vegetarian or eat meat, whether to eat this and that in the presence of somebody with weak faith, etc. These are not basic to the faith but not bad to consider. Paul indicates that this is his opinion and not from God.
Now about marriage, the scriptures are very clear, and if I may, let me add the following.
As you know the Law came about 1500 BC through Moses and Abraham lived 500 years before then at about 2000 BC. So these marriage laws did not apply to Abraham, and at one time even close relatives married one another and that was acceptable. For example, at the time of Adam and Eve, we read in Genesis that their children married the Sons and Daughters of God, which where angelic creatures, then as population grew brothers and sisters married, cousins and what have you. The genetic make up was still pure and there was no reason for not marrying within close relatives . 2500 years later after Adam and Eve came the Law, and people who did marry to more than one wife or committed adultery were obviously committing sin. It wasn't God's way but man's sinful nature was fully in operation as it is today. But from the time of Jesus on we must separate the dispensation of " Law " from the dispensation of " Grace ". Everything changed and the two are so radically different. And what Jesus said and what Paul taught was that one man and one woman should be married to each other. Jesus forbade divorce but only in the case of adultery. If a man divorced his wife for any other reason and the divorced wife remarried another man, both that man and the woman would be in an adulterous relationship. The scripture is very very clear about this fact. Who ever wants to muddy and twist the teachings of the New Testaments, is introducing another " gospel " which Paul says; " if anyone, man or an angel brings you another gospel other that what you have received, let him be accursed ".
At issue should be what the Qur'an and the New Testament say about the institution of marriage. Where Christianity was / is the religion of the land a man having more than one wife at the same time goes to jail. In Islam the more wives one has he is more respected in his society, specially if he has slew of sons. And I have read in different places that Muhammad had between 11 and 44 wives. That is the example for the Muslims. Needless to say that in Western societies some men struggle with one wife !!!
written by duh_swami , December 16, 2009
I thought this was Islamwatch...I must have clicked on the wrong link and got Christianwatch...
written by Parviz , December 16, 2009
To establish a point one needs to compare one thing with another, one needs a reference point. After establishing that point, the last paragraph made the comparison.
thanks for your comment, though !
thanks for your comment, though !
written by Machmoed elchalid , December 17, 2009
I enjoy this very much....seriously...am i the first one you heard this from? What did happen to your faith man. For your information, everything i wrote about christianity...it is from former christians! Your acting like some muslims....don't take it serious, as i don't take religion serious. It's about you man, not God, not christ...it's all about you and always was....that's what religions trying to explain. I wish you could understand what i mean, but i'm afraid you've been made blind. Maybe you alsoo believe that Jesus is the only one who conquered death...this is a big lie and i'm an testifier of that. If you only knew!
written by arild , December 23, 2009
"The concept of adultery was born as a Judeo-Christian thought"
This is complete nonsense.
Here's a few laws on adultery as they appear in the Code of Hammurabi, written about 1790 BC, i.e almost 4000 years ago:
"129
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If a man's wife be surprised (in flagrante delicto) with another man, both shall be tied and thrown into the water, but the husband may pardon his wife and the king his slaves.
"
"131
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If a man bring a charge against one's wife, but she is not surprised with another man, she must take an oath and then may return to her house.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
132
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the "finger is pointed" at a man's wife about another man, but she is not caught sleeping with the other man, she shall jump into the river for her husband.
"
The susequent laws deal with the tricky problems of absent husbands and abandoned homes, and whether or not the wife is permitted to contract a new marriage.
the concept of adultery is CROSS-cultural, not some freakish outgrowth of Judeo-Christian thought.
This is complete nonsense.
Here's a few laws on adultery as they appear in the Code of Hammurabi, written about 1790 BC, i.e almost 4000 years ago:
"129
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If a man's wife be surprised (in flagrante delicto) with another man, both shall be tied and thrown into the water, but the husband may pardon his wife and the king his slaves.
"
"131
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If a man bring a charge against one's wife, but she is not surprised with another man, she must take an oath and then may return to her house.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
132
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the "finger is pointed" at a man's wife about another man, but she is not caught sleeping with the other man, she shall jump into the river for her husband.
"
The susequent laws deal with the tricky problems of absent husbands and abandoned homes, and whether or not the wife is permitted to contract a new marriage.
the concept of adultery is CROSS-cultural, not some freakish outgrowth of Judeo-Christian thought.
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