Recently, in Facebook, I posted a news-report of an honor killing incident, titled Jordan: Man cuts sister throat to cleanse family honour, with my caption “Muslim girls: Dare fall in love? This is what you get.”
 Lovers victim of Islam's honor killing |
This infuriated a highly educated and very nice Muslim friend of mine. He is the most sober, tolerant and humane Muslim friend I have known. And unable to bear my "supposed" insult to Islam, he wrote:
This is with respect to your recent post in facebook about a Muslim killing his sister to safeguard his so-called Family limpidness. This is a prime example of your intension of maligning Islam for any cause.
As you know this kind of incident is not uncommon in any society irrespective of their religion. Your attempt to highlight this incident to attack Islam, the asperity of your criticism shows a kind of your rancor with Islam. I have seen that you are posting this kind of thing almost daily basis; I don’t even pay attention to all. I’ve just picked up this item to start an argument with you to understand you better. I don’t want to start an altercation here, but want to know you better as a well-wisher.
With the amount of time you spend to defame Islam, it looks like you make it part of your Job under the tutelage of some organizations, as if you are paid to do so regularly or you are imbued by a fact that encourage you spending your valuable time to do so regularly. Sometimes I feel like you are mesmerized by someone or something to continue this spurious task.
From my point of view, there is a common denominator of your analysis of incidents. You look at surface level (as long as you can relate it to attack Islam) rather than finding the root cause, finding causes that instigate the incident.
My reply:
About your comment regarding the honor-killing incident, I agree with you that it happens in some other societies as well – in India and South America (Brazil) for example. But Muslims account for nearly 85-90% of the world’s honor-deaths. Given Muslims constitute about 20-25% of the world population, the ratio of Muslim vs. non-Muslim honor killing is about 40:1. Muslims are 40 times more prone to committing this horrendous barbarism as compared to average non-Muslims worldwide.
The reason for honor-killing is the patriarchal nature of societies and ethos, where women are placed below men. Judaism, Christianity, Islam and such other religions that were formulated at the hands of men are all patriarchal in nature. All these religions, and particularly Islam, put women below men, dehumanize women, subjugate women under men, and do not see women as equal human beings, equal with men. The Bible says: Church is the head of man, like man is the head of woman. And because of such subjugation of women under men and command of the Bible to kill witches, Christians societies witnessed horrible such incidents in the Middle Ages. Hundreds of thousands of women were burned alive in Europe, identifying them “witches”. But thanks to vigorous criticism of the Christ faith in the 18-19th century, it has abandoned its patriarchal nature and has given greater equality, dignity and liberty to women. Judaism had the same problem and mended its ways.
Islam is riddled with more problems of patriarchy, incorporated in its divine statutes. The Quran dehumanizes women by calling them deficient in intelligence, giving them half the rights of inheritance and making their worth as witness half of men. Moreover the Quran says, men are in charge of the women. Apart from these repeated dehumanization, and subjugation of women under the men, the Quran also commands this for women (24:31):
“YUSUFALI: And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.”
According to this verse, a Muslim woman must veil herself even in front of her brothers-in-law (husband’s adult brothers). So, when a Muslim girl falls in love with a complete stranger and exchanges sexual gratifications, that goes much much beyond bounds of what Allah has commanded. Defying Allah’s commands deserves due punishments.
Islam is the most patriarchal Abrahamic religion and honor-killing happen exactly because of this patriarchy of Islam. Islam has to go through the same experience – especially in today’s age, when human rights are considered non-negotiable. We are not living in the barbaric Middle Ages; and that’s why, you may notice more vigorous criticism when violations of life, human rights and dignity of a person happens. Most people are not barbaric anymore and will always speak up when barbarism is committed upon innocent souls, although it may cause of discomfort to those, who commit it and those, who support it through maintaining silence.
Comments (31)
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written by dead or alive , November 24, 2011
You are right.Muslims honer kill because they can.
written by scrutator , November 24, 2011
You wrote "..... A muslim who attaches himself to any sect or follow any thing other than Allah is not a muslim. "
Reed, you forgot something very, very important in Islam ! A muslim has to attach himself to Allah and[/] to the insaan-e-kamil, Muhammad ! How could you ever forget that ?
This proves you are not a true muslim, you follow " Wilson Reed - ism" !
Reed, you forgot something very, very important in Islam ! A muslim has to attach himself to Allah and[/] to the insaan-e-kamil, Muhammad ! How could you ever forget that ?
This proves you are not a true muslim, you follow " Wilson Reed - ism" !
written by scrutator , November 24, 2011
duh_swami, that's a great explanation for this heinous crime you have given above !
Its a gem, keep up with the good work !
Its a gem, keep up with the good work !
written by scrutator , November 24, 2011
Muhammad is very important in Islam, so much so that he Allah acquiesces with all his transgressions and misdeeds.
After all, even Allah and his angels "pray peace to" i.e. 'worship' Muhammad (Quran 33.56).
Reed, don't be fooled by the mis-translation of this verse by muslim translators, who say in Q33.56, Allah & angels apparently 'bless' Muhammad.
The original Arabic verse says "pray peace to", see article by Ahmad al-Araby.
After all, even Allah and his angels "pray peace to" i.e. 'worship' Muhammad (Quran 33.56).
Reed, don't be fooled by the mis-translation of this verse by muslim translators, who say in Q33.56, Allah & angels apparently 'bless' Muhammad.
The original Arabic verse says "pray peace to", see article by Ahmad al-Araby.
written by Reed Wilson , November 25, 2011
4:36 "Serve Allah, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbors who are near, neighbors who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer , and what your right hands possess: For Allah loves not the arrogant, the vainglorious".
duh_swami. " Honor killing, named as such, is not in Quran, but it is enabled by sharia, because there is no Islamic penalty for killing your children or your childrens children.
Good duh. Even feeling honored is haram both in Quran and Gospel, leaving alone killing. I recite some relevant Quran here:
31:18 "And swell not thy cheek for pride at people, nor walk in insolence through the earth; for Allah loves not any arrogant boaster".
57:23 In order that ye may not despair over matters that pass you by, nor exult over favours bestowed upon you. For Allah loves not any vainglorious boaster".
You write "there is no Islamic penalty for killing your children or your childrens children."
Penalty for killing is the Islamic penalty for killing your children or your children's children."
duh_swami. " Honor killing, named as such, is not in Quran, but it is enabled by sharia, because there is no Islamic penalty for killing your children or your childrens children.
Good duh. Even feeling honored is haram both in Quran and Gospel, leaving alone killing. I recite some relevant Quran here:
31:18 "And swell not thy cheek for pride at people, nor walk in insolence through the earth; for Allah loves not any arrogant boaster".
57:23 In order that ye may not despair over matters that pass you by, nor exult over favours bestowed upon you. For Allah loves not any vainglorious boaster".
You write "there is no Islamic penalty for killing your children or your childrens children."
Penalty for killing is the Islamic penalty for killing your children or your children's children."
written by Clement-Islam-Watch Pastor , November 25, 2011
Reed, couldn't the following verses of the Quran be the incentives for honour killing in the Islamic nation? if you say nothing like honour killing in the Quran.
Qur'an:9:23"Believers, take not for friends your fathers and your brothers if they love disbelief above belief. If you do, you do wrong. Say: If your fathers, your sons, your families, your wives, relatives and property which you have acquired, and the slackness of trade which you fear and dwellings which you like, are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger and striving hard and fighting in His Cause, then wait till Allah brings about His torment."
Qur'an:47:4"But if it had been Allah's will, He Himself could have exacted retribution and punished them (without your help). But He lets you fight in order to test you. But those who are killed in Allah's Cause, will never let their deeds go to waste."
Qur'an:8:72"Those who accepted Islam and left their homes to fight in Allah's Cause with their possessions and persons, and those who gave them shelter and aided them are your allies. You are only called to protect Muslims who fight."
Qur'an:9:88"The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah's Cause."
Qur'an:9:5"Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."
Qur'an:9:112"The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."
Qur'an:9:29"Fight those who do not believe until the
all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."
Qur'an:9:23"Believers, take not for friends your fathers and your brothers if they love disbelief above belief. If you do, you do wrong. Say: If your fathers, your sons, your families, your wives, relatives and property which you have acquired, and the slackness of trade which you fear and dwellings which you like, are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger and striving hard and fighting in His Cause, then wait till Allah brings about His torment."
Qur'an:47:4"But if it had been Allah's will, He Himself could have exacted retribution and punished them (without your help). But He lets you fight in order to test you. But those who are killed in Allah's Cause, will never let their deeds go to waste."
Qur'an:8:72"Those who accepted Islam and left their homes to fight in Allah's Cause with their possessions and persons, and those who gave them shelter and aided them are your allies. You are only called to protect Muslims who fight."
Qur'an:9:88"The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah's Cause."
Qur'an:9:5"Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."
Qur'an:9:112"The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."
Qur'an:9:29"Fight those who do not believe until the
all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."
written by Walter Sieruk , November 25, 2011
In the book FOR GOD OR FOR TYRANNY writtrn by a former Muslim and jihadist but now a Christian , Willid Shoebat. On page 270 he wrote corncerning the jubject of "Honor killing" The hatered of women in an Islamic society is so immense that even if a women is raped ,she is stoned to death."
Dr.Shoebat has his internet site. Which is www.shoebat.com
Dr.Shoebat has his internet site. Which is www.shoebat.com
written by Walter Sieruk , November 25, 2011
"Honor killings are exeuted by slitting the victims throat. hatcheting them, stabbing, burning them to death, decapitation, bulluts to the head and chest, or by any other means imaginable." and "Honor killings have also come to the West thanks to the rise of Islamic immigration."
[From the book THEY MUSY BE STOPPEDby Brigitte Gabriel p. 175,176]
[From the book THEY MUSY BE STOPPEDby Brigitte Gabriel p. 175,176]
written by Reed Wilson , November 27, 2011
Clement-Islam-Watch Pastor. You write " Reed, couldn't the following verses of the Quran be the incentives for honor killing in the Islamic nation if you say nothing like honor killing in the Quran?
Couldnt Clement. Even feeling honored is haram both in Quran and Gospel, leaving alone killing. I recite some relevant Quran here:
31:18 "And swell not thy cheek for pride at people, nor walk in insolence through the earth; for Allah loves not any arrogant boaster".
57:23 "In order that you may not despair over matters that pass you by, nor exult over favors bestowed upon you. For Allah loves not any vainglorious boaster".
Quran restricts the victor with either freeing prisoners for ransom or as a favor. There is no third choice given by the Quran, and thereby it has not only abolished slavery but abolished the very source of this evil, i.e. prisoners of war.
The basic and fundamental teaching of the Quran is that subservience is due to Allah alone and not to any human or group of humans. Obedience and sovereignty is only and only for Allah, says the Quran at numerous places. Qur'anic Islam does not accept Slavery.
Following passages in OT seem contamination/adulteration:
"ye, shall take them the slaves as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them (the slaves) for a possession, they shall be, your BONDMEN for ever . . . LEVITICUS 25:46
No religion will permit such things Clement.
Couldnt Clement. Even feeling honored is haram both in Quran and Gospel, leaving alone killing. I recite some relevant Quran here:
31:18 "And swell not thy cheek for pride at people, nor walk in insolence through the earth; for Allah loves not any arrogant boaster".
57:23 "In order that you may not despair over matters that pass you by, nor exult over favors bestowed upon you. For Allah loves not any vainglorious boaster".
Quran restricts the victor with either freeing prisoners for ransom or as a favor. There is no third choice given by the Quran, and thereby it has not only abolished slavery but abolished the very source of this evil, i.e. prisoners of war.
The basic and fundamental teaching of the Quran is that subservience is due to Allah alone and not to any human or group of humans. Obedience and sovereignty is only and only for Allah, says the Quran at numerous places. Qur'anic Islam does not accept Slavery.
Following passages in OT seem contamination/adulteration:
"ye, shall take them the slaves as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them (the slaves) for a possession, they shall be, your BONDMEN for ever . . . LEVITICUS 25:46
No religion will permit such things Clement.
written by Brown Superman , November 27, 2011
Such "honor killings" show what type of people, muslims are. TYPICAL MORONS!
written by Clement-Islam-Watch Pastor , November 28, 2011
You have explained the verses I quoted as regards direct command from Allah concerning what to do with unblievers, whether they are member of your familily or outside. This command from Allah is very clear. I believe honour killiing is derived from the fact that Allah command is supreme to anything family or tribal ties or connection. Please make resonable defence of your cult belief system on this crime to humanity.
written by Reed Wilson. , November 28, 2011
Clement-Islam-Watch Pastor. " I believe honour killiing is derived from the fact that Allah command is supreme to anything family or tribal ties or connection. Please make resonable defence of your cult belief system on this crime to humanity."
No Clement. Even feeling honored is haram both in Quran and Gospel, leaving alone killing. I recite some relevant Quran here:
31:18 "And swell not thy cheek for pride at people, nor walk in insolence through the earth; for Allah loves not any arrogant boaster".
57:23 In order that ye may not despair over matters that pass you by, nor exult over favors bestowed upon you. For Allah loves not any vainglorious boaster".
I am afraid you are not clear about what is 'honor killing'.
No Clement. Even feeling honored is haram both in Quran and Gospel, leaving alone killing. I recite some relevant Quran here:
31:18 "And swell not thy cheek for pride at people, nor walk in insolence through the earth; for Allah loves not any arrogant boaster".
57:23 In order that ye may not despair over matters that pass you by, nor exult over favors bestowed upon you. For Allah loves not any vainglorious boaster".
I am afraid you are not clear about what is 'honor killing'.
written by Yibel , November 28, 2011
The Qur'an is talking about vainglorious and arrogant boasters, not males who feel that their authority or prestige have been impugned. This is a feeling of dishonor or disrespect. The Muslim male feels he has been shamed in the sight of his fellow Muslims because his property, that is his wife or child or another family member has not obeyed him (or he thinks they will not obey him). Honor killing also occurs when the Muslim male feels he has been slighted (or disrespected) in so way by an outsider. In the case of a non-believer, the Muslim male can kill the non-believer without any punishment. If he kills a fellow Muslim, then blood money may be required.
An example of vainglorious, arrogant boasting:
'I have been made victorous through terror.' - Muhammad
An example of vainglorious, arrogant boasting:
'I have been made victorous through terror.' - Muhammad
written by Yibel , November 28, 2011
You state: Qur'anic Islam does not accept Slavery.
What version of the Qur'an are you reading?
Muhammad raided peaceful villages, killed the men and boys over 13 years of age, and MADE SLAVES OF THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN. Remember the Jews of Khayber Q. 33:25. And his merry band of bloodthirsty marauders have been following his PERFECT example ever since. 1433 Islamic years (Mo's Lunar Calendar) of Muslim slaughter, rape, pillage, and enslavement of whole societies and peoples.
Sure, the Qur'an gives a few examples of freeing slaves, but this is to attone for offences against Shari'a, the Law of Ah, such as:
If one Muslim accidently kills another Muslim Q. 4:92, or if a Muslim breaks an oath Q. 5:94, or if a Muslim decides to remarry a wife he just divorced Q. 58:3-5), the penalty is either free a slave, or feed or cloth some poor people, or in the divorce situation, fast for two months.
In addition, the Qur'an states that slave girls are lawful for sex Q. 23:5
The above passages imply that slavery will be around until the end of time, or the end of Islam, which ever comes first! There is nothing about slavery ever being forbidden or abolished. Slavery is still practiced in Islamic countries.
Just curious, but do you ever read the articles on this web site? There is a whole series about Muslim slavery. You might consider enlightening yourself about the slavery issue. And Mo's lifestyle, which every Muslim male is supposed to emulate.
And about shari'a. You keep quoting passages without understanding.
If subservience is due to Allah alone, then why is Mo put up on such a high pedestal?
He is so god-like that no one can even question the Qur'an (Mo's book), Allah (Mo's god), or Mo!
And, if the Qur'an is the word of this god of Mo's,
Then why is it so full of ho's (houris)?
What version of the Qur'an are you reading?
Muhammad raided peaceful villages, killed the men and boys over 13 years of age, and MADE SLAVES OF THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN. Remember the Jews of Khayber Q. 33:25. And his merry band of bloodthirsty marauders have been following his PERFECT example ever since. 1433 Islamic years (Mo's Lunar Calendar) of Muslim slaughter, rape, pillage, and enslavement of whole societies and peoples.
Sure, the Qur'an gives a few examples of freeing slaves, but this is to attone for offences against Shari'a, the Law of Ah, such as:
If one Muslim accidently kills another Muslim Q. 4:92, or if a Muslim breaks an oath Q. 5:94, or if a Muslim decides to remarry a wife he just divorced Q. 58:3-5), the penalty is either free a slave, or feed or cloth some poor people, or in the divorce situation, fast for two months.
In addition, the Qur'an states that slave girls are lawful for sex Q. 23:5
The above passages imply that slavery will be around until the end of time, or the end of Islam, which ever comes first! There is nothing about slavery ever being forbidden or abolished. Slavery is still practiced in Islamic countries.
Just curious, but do you ever read the articles on this web site? There is a whole series about Muslim slavery. You might consider enlightening yourself about the slavery issue. And Mo's lifestyle, which every Muslim male is supposed to emulate.
And about shari'a. You keep quoting passages without understanding.
If subservience is due to Allah alone, then why is Mo put up on such a high pedestal?
He is so god-like that no one can even question the Qur'an (Mo's book), Allah (Mo's god), or Mo!
And, if the Qur'an is the word of this god of Mo's,
Then why is it so full of ho's (houris)?
written by Clement-Islam-Watch Pastor , November 29, 2011
What do you think Mohammed spent his 23 years as a prophet doing?
It is in record that he declared jihad or death on all infidels or unbelievers in his religion. He killed assassinated, murdered and destroyed any persons or nations that opposed him. Was it not to honor Allah’s commandment that it has to be Islam or death to the unbelievers? These people who killed their backsliding daughters are honoring Allah too because of the reword and honor given to those who fight jihad for Allah.
Reed, Let me ask you, Who has ever respected those religious verses you quote for us here?. Even Mohammed himself never obeyed them. What we see in the Islamic nation is violent, war, killing unbelievers and apostates, women oppression, intolerant, boastful speeches in favour of violent jihad. Mohammed the founder of Islam spent all his prophet hood life fighting and killing unbelievers in honour of his Allah. Islam spread through violent. Islam evangelizes through armed struggle and conquest and breeding children. Can you do less and still be a good Muslim?
It is in record that he declared jihad or death on all infidels or unbelievers in his religion. He killed assassinated, murdered and destroyed any persons or nations that opposed him. Was it not to honor Allah’s commandment that it has to be Islam or death to the unbelievers? These people who killed their backsliding daughters are honoring Allah too because of the reword and honor given to those who fight jihad for Allah.
Reed, Let me ask you, Who has ever respected those religious verses you quote for us here?. Even Mohammed himself never obeyed them. What we see in the Islamic nation is violent, war, killing unbelievers and apostates, women oppression, intolerant, boastful speeches in favour of violent jihad. Mohammed the founder of Islam spent all his prophet hood life fighting and killing unbelievers in honour of his Allah. Islam spread through violent. Islam evangelizes through armed struggle and conquest and breeding children. Can you do less and still be a good Muslim?
written by Reed Wilson. , November 30, 2011
Yibel. "What version of the Qur'an are you reading?
We dont have versions of Quran. I follow text.
"Muhammad raided peaceful villages, killed the men and boys over 13 years of age, and MADE SLAVES OF THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN. Remember the Jews of Khayber Q. 33:25. And his merry band of bloodthirsty marauders have been following his PERFECT example ever since."
Dont believe all that Yibel. It is hadis and Muhammad of hadis which is fiction.
"Sure, the Qur'an gives a few examples of freeing slaves, but this is to attone for offences against Shari'a, the Law of Ah, such as:
If one Muslim accidently kills another Muslim Q. 4:92, or if a Muslim breaks an oath Q. 5:94, or if a Muslim decides to remarry a wife he just divorced Q. 58:3-5), the penalty is either free a slave, or feed or cloth some poor people, or in the divorce situation, fast for two months."
These are not examples Yibel.
Contd.
We dont have versions of Quran. I follow text.
"Muhammad raided peaceful villages, killed the men and boys over 13 years of age, and MADE SLAVES OF THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN. Remember the Jews of Khayber Q. 33:25. And his merry band of bloodthirsty marauders have been following his PERFECT example ever since."
Dont believe all that Yibel. It is hadis and Muhammad of hadis which is fiction.
"Sure, the Qur'an gives a few examples of freeing slaves, but this is to attone for offences against Shari'a, the Law of Ah, such as:
If one Muslim accidently kills another Muslim Q. 4:92, or if a Muslim breaks an oath Q. 5:94, or if a Muslim decides to remarry a wife he just divorced Q. 58:3-5), the penalty is either free a slave, or feed or cloth some poor people, or in the divorce situation, fast for two months."
These are not examples Yibel.
Contd.
written by Clement-Islam-Watch Pastor , November 30, 2011
Reed I believe you are getting this honour killing thing wrongh.
These people are not killing daughters or sisters or apostates for self honour, but for Allah or Mohammed honour. What is the honour in killing ones daughter or sister, if Mohammad had not said that if anyone blasphemed or leaves Islam Kill him, even in the Quran the command to kill unbelievers is not ambiguous, like the message of love and care of your neighbor.
No one can miss the message of hate, kill and destroy in the Quran. If you don’t understand the what the Quran says. You can see how is been practiced by persons and nation that believe its message. Is only Reed that reads double in the Quran.
These people are not killing daughters or sisters or apostates for self honour, but for Allah or Mohammed honour. What is the honour in killing ones daughter or sister, if Mohammad had not said that if anyone blasphemed or leaves Islam Kill him, even in the Quran the command to kill unbelievers is not ambiguous, like the message of love and care of your neighbor.
No one can miss the message of hate, kill and destroy in the Quran. If you don’t understand the what the Quran says. You can see how is been practiced by persons and nation that believe its message. Is only Reed that reads double in the Quran.
written by Yibel , November 30, 2011
Qur'an Surat Al-Hazat, The Confederate Tribes, Ayah 33:25-27 states:
"He brought down from their strongholds those who had supported them from among the People of the Book (The Jews of Bani Qurayzah) and cast terror into their hearts, so that some you slew and others you took captive.
He made you masters of their land, their houses, and their goods, and yet another
land on which you had never set foot before..."
This is from the Qur'an! It is not ahadith or hadis, as you put it. Muhammad is saying that he took slaves and slew people. Why? Because he wanted their homes, goods, land, women, children, etc. He is saying that he is a greedy, immoral, theiving warlord. He is bragging about his conquest and attributing his success to his god Allah.
The Jews of Bani Qurayzah were attacked by Muhammad in 627 CE and 'yet another
land' refers to the Jews of Khaybar who Muhammad slaughtered in 629 CE. He took
one of the Jewish women and raped her right after she saw both her parents and
husband massacred. He also took one of the donkeys for his own. It was this
donkey that he road around the Ka'aba in triumph after he defeated the Quraysh of
Makkah in 630 CE and forced them to accept Islam.
The ahadith are sayings attributed to Muhammad by his followers but not included
in the Qur'an. The Sunnah are biographical incidents in the life of Muhammad.
Both are necessary in order to make sense of the rambling narration (sermons)
found in the Qur'an.
Concerning the freeing of slaves: The Qur'an not only does not do away with
slavery, it makes slavery eternal. The times when it is permissible, or required,
to free a slave are Q. 4:92, 5:94, and 58:3-5 as noted in my previous post.
"He brought down from their strongholds those who had supported them from among the People of the Book (The Jews of Bani Qurayzah) and cast terror into their hearts, so that some you slew and others you took captive.
He made you masters of their land, their houses, and their goods, and yet another
land on which you had never set foot before..."
This is from the Qur'an! It is not ahadith or hadis, as you put it. Muhammad is saying that he took slaves and slew people. Why? Because he wanted their homes, goods, land, women, children, etc. He is saying that he is a greedy, immoral, theiving warlord. He is bragging about his conquest and attributing his success to his god Allah.
The Jews of Bani Qurayzah were attacked by Muhammad in 627 CE and 'yet another
land' refers to the Jews of Khaybar who Muhammad slaughtered in 629 CE. He took
one of the Jewish women and raped her right after she saw both her parents and
husband massacred. He also took one of the donkeys for his own. It was this
donkey that he road around the Ka'aba in triumph after he defeated the Quraysh of
Makkah in 630 CE and forced them to accept Islam.
The ahadith are sayings attributed to Muhammad by his followers but not included
in the Qur'an. The Sunnah are biographical incidents in the life of Muhammad.
Both are necessary in order to make sense of the rambling narration (sermons)
found in the Qur'an.
Concerning the freeing of slaves: The Qur'an not only does not do away with
slavery, it makes slavery eternal. The times when it is permissible, or required,
to free a slave are Q. 4:92, 5:94, and 58:3-5 as noted in my previous post.
written by Reed Wilson. , December 03, 2011
Yibel. "This is from the Qur'an! It is not ahadith or hadis, as you put it."
Not really. What is in parenthesis is from Hadis. There is no Quraiza etc in Quran.
You write "The Jews of Bani Qurayzah were attacked by Muhammad in 627 CE and 'yet another
land' refers to the Jews of Khaybar who Muhammad slaughtered in 629 CE. He took
one of the Jewish women and raped her right after she saw both her parents and
husband massacred. He also took one of the donkeys for his own. It was this
donkey that he road around the Ka'aba in triumph after he defeated the Quraysh of
Makkah in 630 CE and forced them to accept Islam."
The above passage is from Hadis even Jews dont know the episode which Bukhari gives without giving source. There is a mention of siege in Jewish encyclopedia. They say that they frustrated the enemy. They dont know beautiful teenager Safia whose husband was killed. They dont know Quraiza. Banu Nadir was sieged.
I am not saying that you change your belief.
Not really. What is in parenthesis is from Hadis. There is no Quraiza etc in Quran.
You write "The Jews of Bani Qurayzah were attacked by Muhammad in 627 CE and 'yet another
land' refers to the Jews of Khaybar who Muhammad slaughtered in 629 CE. He took
one of the Jewish women and raped her right after she saw both her parents and
husband massacred. He also took one of the donkeys for his own. It was this
donkey that he road around the Ka'aba in triumph after he defeated the Quraysh of
Makkah in 630 CE and forced them to accept Islam."
The above passage is from Hadis even Jews dont know the episode which Bukhari gives without giving source. There is a mention of siege in Jewish encyclopedia. They say that they frustrated the enemy. They dont know beautiful teenager Safia whose husband was killed. They dont know Quraiza. Banu Nadir was sieged.
I am not saying that you change your belief.
written by Cerebrum123 , December 03, 2011
You are wrong about Christianity's stance on women ,and on the subject of the "witch hunts". First off far less witches were killed than is usually told. Second not all of them were women about 25% were men. Third the witches were doing things that were illegal under secular law ,and also harmful to the people around them. There is evidence that even the Spanish Inquisition was instigated to mitigate the excesses of mob violence, in particular the Cathar cult, and it had a civilizing influence. Amongst the 535 executions in Aragon between 1540 and 1640, for example, there were only 12 cases of ‘superstition or witchcraft’—the majority were for religious heresy. Magic was widely tolerated; only Satanism attracted the death penalty. But even in Spain, confession and apology was all that was required—only defiance was punished. Sometimes the Church even stopped the witch hunts.1275-1894 A.D. between 30,000 and 60,000 were killed in executions (much less than the hundreds of thousands supposed by the author). Fourth women are equal spiritually to men in Christianity. They have different roles in life ,and immense physical differences ( surely anyone on here can agree that women and men are different physically). Second time trying to post this.
written by Alamgir-Hussain , December 03, 2011
There is much controversy about the number of withes killed. German Dr Sprenger in his book "Hammer of Witches" mentioned that 9 million witches were killed. Dr. Sprenger himself was a witch hunter and has claimed to have killed himself 500 witches in a single year. Recent estimates by revisionists have put the number at 200 to 300 thousands. So the question remains: should we accept the eyewitness account of the Middle Ages or recent studies.
I'm aware of some males witches killed in America in particular, but not sure if their proportion was so high.
I'm aware of some males witches killed in America in particular, but not sure if their proportion was so high.
"Third the witches were doing things that were illegal under secular law ,and also harmful to the people around them."I believe those men and women were behaving different from people of other cultures. And for sure, had the same punishment been applied today, 99% of women in the West would be killed as witches.
written by Cererum123 , December 04, 2011
I am going to list a few sources for my information on this subject. Tekton Ministries (they have a website called tektonics. com . Bob and Gretchen Passantino, Satanism [Zondervan 1995 ) Carl Olson Sandra Miesel, The Da Vinci Hoax,)
"I believe those men and women were behaving different from people of other cultures. And for sure, had the same punishment been applied today, 99% of women in the West would be killed as witches."
This seems to be simply a personal opinion with no reference to any fact or source of why this would happen. This arbitrary 99% is not backed up with anything you have written. Besides the Inquisitions ,Crusades ,and witch hunts are examples of people NOT following the teachings of Christianity ,and not an example of what Christians should do in light of Christian teaching.
"I believe those men and women were behaving different from people of other cultures. And for sure, had the same punishment been applied today, 99% of women in the West would be killed as witches."
This seems to be simply a personal opinion with no reference to any fact or source of why this would happen. This arbitrary 99% is not backed up with anything you have written. Besides the Inquisitions ,Crusades ,and witch hunts are examples of people NOT following the teachings of Christianity ,and not an example of what Christians should do in light of Christian teaching.
written by Yibel , December 05, 2011
You have repeatedly stated that you only read (follow) the Qur'an which makes you
a religion of one person and not a true Muslim. All the rest of the ummah include:
The ahadith (Hadis, as you put it) which are the sayings of Muhammad as recorded by his closest followers during his lifetime, and The Sira which are the events and things that Muhammad is recorded as doing.
The Qur'an states that Muhammad was the perfect example of a human being whose life should by followed meticulously:
3.31: If you love Allah then follow Muhammad and Allah will forgive your sins.
6.33: Rejecting Muhammad is rejecting Allah.
33.21: Mohammed is an excellent role model for you to follow.
33.36: Rules and examples set by Allah and Muhammad is binding to all Muslims:
there are no alternatives.
Therefore, following sunna and ahadith of Muhammad is mandatory for all Muslims.
And you, sir, are not a true Muslim. I suggest you follow the advice ofM. A. Khan, editor to learn about this so-called religion you think you are following:
"We always emphasize, especially to those who want to embrace Islam, that they
study the Quran, ahadith and Sira well before making their mind..."
a religion of one person and not a true Muslim. All the rest of the ummah include:
The ahadith (Hadis, as you put it) which are the sayings of Muhammad as recorded by his closest followers during his lifetime, and The Sira which are the events and things that Muhammad is recorded as doing.
The Qur'an states that Muhammad was the perfect example of a human being whose life should by followed meticulously:
3.31: If you love Allah then follow Muhammad and Allah will forgive your sins.
6.33: Rejecting Muhammad is rejecting Allah.
33.21: Mohammed is an excellent role model for you to follow.
33.36: Rules and examples set by Allah and Muhammad is binding to all Muslims:
there are no alternatives.
Therefore, following sunna and ahadith of Muhammad is mandatory for all Muslims.
And you, sir, are not a true Muslim. I suggest you follow the advice ofM. A. Khan, editor to learn about this so-called religion you think you are following:
"We always emphasize, especially to those who want to embrace Islam, that they
study the Quran, ahadith and Sira well before making their mind..."
written by Clement-Islam-Watch Pastor , December 06, 2011
The problem with Reed is that he thinks that by rejecting the Sira and Hadiths and remain ignorant of the atrocities and evil deed of the author of the Quran he will escape the judgment of God. Not knowing that the Quran he claimed to defend is even more evil and unreliable than the Sira and the Hadith.
At list in the Sira and hadith we hear testimonies of other people that are contemporary with Mohammed but in the Quran no any eye witness account but the hallucination of the mad man- Mohammed, he even swore and prayed for himself but claimed that it was Allah that swore and pray for him. What madness.
A book that is full of self defence, fables, inconsistencies, contradictions, illogic and mendacity as the Quran is now passed as scriptures for 1.6b people of the world. what a pity
At list in the Sira and hadith we hear testimonies of other people that are contemporary with Mohammed but in the Quran no any eye witness account but the hallucination of the mad man- Mohammed, he even swore and prayed for himself but claimed that it was Allah that swore and pray for him. What madness.
A book that is full of self defence, fables, inconsistencies, contradictions, illogic and mendacity as the Quran is now passed as scriptures for 1.6b people of the world. what a pity
written by lw1 , December 06, 2011
05/12/2011. At least 30 Shias killed in a series of blasts in Iraq,targetting Shia
pilgrims marking the festival of Ashura.
06/12/2011. At least 58 people were killed by blasts in Kabul and Mazar-i-Sharif,
again marking the festival of Ashura.
When Sunnis bomb a mosque attended by Shias, is it a different Allah the Shias are praying to?
pilgrims marking the festival of Ashura.
06/12/2011. At least 58 people were killed by blasts in Kabul and Mazar-i-Sharif,
again marking the festival of Ashura.
When Sunnis bomb a mosque attended by Shias, is it a different Allah the Shias are praying to?
written by Malem , December 06, 2011
Killing such as honor killing is prohibited in the Koran and no where in the holy text does it ever say Honor Killing is allowed. What you have is some made up Sharia man made garbage that people try and relate to the Koran, it cannot be the Koran prohibits even Sharia itself.
written by Clement-Islam-Watch Pastor , December 07, 2011
I think both of you are getting it wrong. The honour is not going to individual but to Allah. Mohammede spent his entire life honouring Allah by killing infidels and unbelivers and anyone who wants to honour Allah must obey him and do likewise. My advise to you is that you keep on disobeying Allah and his Quran because I know the momment you believe and want to obey, you become a terrorist and a jihadist, the serial killers of infidels and unbelieving daughters and sons.
written by Yibel , December 10, 2011
Mores the pity that so many Christians actually believe that Islam is an Abrahamic religion, and so many Muslims are fooled into believing that Islam is really peaceful.
The God of Islam is not the same God as that of the Jews and Christians.
Allah was, and is, the very god that Abraham left in Ur - Sin, The Moon God of Chaldea, Babylon and the Assyrians, has supplanted YHVH (Yahweh’s) position and falsely claims to be the god of Abraham.
Islam's only religious trappings are those of the pagan rock-worshiping cults of the tribes of nomadic Arabs living in a remote desert 1400 years ago, and the Qur'an's stories about Biblical figures are full of absolute nonsense and misinformation taken from heretic and Apocryphal sources.
Western civilization has forgotten the 1400 years of attacks by Muslim armies, the hundreds of years of white slavery to Muslims overlords, the massacres, the beheadings, the subjugation. And Western civilization is now turning a blind eye to Islam's ongoing war against the 5 billion non-Muslims of the world.
True to his blood thirstiness, Allah is still shedding innocent blood.
The God of Islam is not the same God as that of the Jews and Christians.
Allah was, and is, the very god that Abraham left in Ur - Sin, The Moon God of Chaldea, Babylon and the Assyrians, has supplanted YHVH (Yahweh’s) position and falsely claims to be the god of Abraham.
Islam's only religious trappings are those of the pagan rock-worshiping cults of the tribes of nomadic Arabs living in a remote desert 1400 years ago, and the Qur'an's stories about Biblical figures are full of absolute nonsense and misinformation taken from heretic and Apocryphal sources.
Western civilization has forgotten the 1400 years of attacks by Muslim armies, the hundreds of years of white slavery to Muslims overlords, the massacres, the beheadings, the subjugation. And Western civilization is now turning a blind eye to Islam's ongoing war against the 5 billion non-Muslims of the world.
True to his blood thirstiness, Allah is still shedding innocent blood.
written by Malem , December 11, 2011
You are wrong, the invidual has the right to choose their behavior, Honar killing is not anything the Koran advises, and in fact strictly prohibits it. Those that do it , do so based on garbage Sharia, made up but a bunch of fools and followed by the same. If indeed they followed the Koran they would see there is no such thing.
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By killing his daughter he regains his lost stature, his honor has been redeemed, and all is well.......Twisted isn't it...