Abu Shuja'ah responds to Khan's arguments in Part 1 of this bebate...
Continued from Part 1 ------------ Continued in Part 3
Audhuu Billahir Minashaytaanir Rajim, Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem.
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful, I seek refuge from Satan the accursed.
'Dirt Brown' is M.A. Khan's writings, 'Black' is mine (Abu Shuja’ah)
I will start with a rebuttal to M. A. Khan’s email to me. Let it be stated that I hold this one statement before him. "I affirm beforehand that Muhammad had no justification at all."
We shall in due course, within the confines of this article, view the hypocrisy in his words. Let us continue and slowly expose several misconceptions, lies, half truths and twisted meanings.
Muhammad(saw), the greatest man to ever grace this earth did not relocate to Medina on the ground his mission had failed, in fact M.A. Khan acknowledges this fact, "Muhammad continued his preaching unimpeded and the polytheists converted to Islam at a high frequency."
How could his mission fail and in sometime become a success again? What he had done was lay the foundation for the greatest over-haul the world has ever come to see. You have to understand Arab society at that time, it can be even seen today. The arrogance and ignorance of some was astonishing, baby girls were buried in the sand, slaves were changed like socks, torture was public and common practise. Sexual diseases (which even killed one of the Quraysh leaders) was very prevelant. You're dealing with a dictotarial society. Muhammad (saw) and the followers of Islam were shunned, closed off, hounded by the polytheist Pagan Quraysh leaders who had the money and man power to provoke, threaten and at one point completely lock of the Muslims to the extent they were starved for several months.
I don't know about M.A. Khan and his definition of failure, but I guess he hasn't looked at modern day Arabia, or Makkah, it's Muslim, I doubt that’s what a failure would look like.
“So Muhammad initially started pampering the Jews & Christians”, yet you say this right before ,” he settled down without facing any opposition from any group, including the Jews, who were richer and more influential in Medin.” How could a poor, starved man at that point in time pamper people who were vastly richer than he was? What, did he pamper the rich with words? Or did he preach? If he preached I agree, pampered, then you’re just making stuff up.
“But the problem with the Jews started only after Muhammad became too ambitious to present himself also as a prophet, a savior, of the Jews (& Christians) too. So Muhammad initially started pampering the Jews & Christians. He gave Moses a status even higher than his own [Bukhari 4:610-612]. Quranic verses pampered them saying, Allah gave them ‘guidance and light’ in the form of Torah [Q 5:44] and the Jews are “righteous” people [Q 6:153-54], who ‘excelled the nations’ [Q 45:16].”
4.610
Narrated Abu Sa`id: The Prophet said, 'People will be struck unconscious on the Day of Resurrection and I will be the first to regain consciousness, and behold! There I will see Moses holding one of the pillars of Allah's Throne. I will wonder whether he has become conscious before me of he has been exempted, because of his unconsciousness at the Tur (mountain) which he received (on the earth).
How is this giving Moses a status higher than his own? He’s describing the Day of Ressurection when all will be raised to be judged for their sins. So he sees another Prophet of Islam standing their and he wonders. This is in no way putting Moses above him or putting himself below Moses, but it is Muhammad(saw) speaking about Moses. Muhammad (saw) does state he would be first and he wonders if Moses (as) became concious before him or not. Again he doesn’t say Moses will be first or did he say Moses is first, rather he says himself.
4.612
Narrated Ibn `Abbas:That he differed with Al-Hur bin Qais Al-Fazari regarding the companion of Moses. Ibn `Abbas said that he was Al-Khadir. Meanwhile Ubai bin Ka`b passed by them and Ibn `Abbas called him saying, "My friend and I have differed regarding Moses' companion whom Moses asked the way to meet. Have you heard Allah's Apostle mentioning something about him?" He said, "Yes, I heard Allah's Apostle saying, 'While Moses was sitting in the company of some Israelites, a man came and asked (him), 'Do you know anyone who is more learned than you?' Moses replied, 'No.' So, Allah sent the Divine Inspiration to Moses: 'Yes, Our slave, Khadir (is more learned than you).' Moses asked how to meet him (i.e. Khadir). So, the fish, was made, as a sign for him, and he was told that when the fish was lost, he should return and there he would meet him. So, Moses went on looking for the sign of the fish in the sea. The servant boy of Moses said to him, 'Do you know that when we were sitting by the side of the rock, I forgot the fish, and t was only Satan who made me forget to tell (you) about it.' Moses said, That was what we were seeking after,' and both of them returned, following their footmarks and found Khadir; and what happened further to them, is mentioned in Allah's Book."
Again, this has nothing to do with praising or putting Moses (as) above Muhammad(saw) or not, in fact can you please state at what date the hadith began publishing? It is hilarious you use this as your evidence, although hadith were recorded at this time, it was not published as Quran had not been fully revealed as yet. So how would the Jews ever hear about these two hadith?
Again you also use that word pamper again, shame really, you don’t understand pampered and preaching.
I would like to know how Quran 5:44 is "pampering" the Jews, when they are called disbelievers:
Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light, by which the Prophets who surrendered (unto Allah) judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests (judged) by such of Allah's Scripture as they were bidden to observe, and thereunto were they witnesses. So fear not mankind, but fear Me. And barter not My revelations for a little gain. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are disbelievers.
Quran 6:153-154:
“And (He commandeth you, saying) : This is My straight path, so follow it Follow not other ways, lest ye be parted from His way: This hath He ordained for you, that ye may ward off (evil).
Again, We gave the scripture unto Moses, complete for him who would do good, an explanation of all things, a guidance and a mercy, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord.”
So you are saying Allah (swt) is pampering the Jews, so in verse 153 He’s calling them deviated, that's some compliment! Verse 154, is in accordance with Quran 2:4, it's a belief of Islam. The Jews believe that the Torah was oral in which Muslims dispute, in which the Torah itself also disputes. See Torah, Deut 31:26 “"Take this Book of the Law…”. Oral? No. The Quran was pointing out a deviation by the Jews, in fact so much so, to show them what their book says Allah says in Quran 3:17 “O People of the Scripture! Why confound ye truth with falsehood and knowingly conceal the truth.”
"And he adopted many Jewish rituals and customs—fasting, circumcision, praying toward Jerusalem etc.—to make Islam truly look like an Abrahamic creed for the first time. Allah’s and Muhammad’s reason behind all these goody-goody sayings and gestures toward the Jews was to come out later; it was Muhammad’s ambition to become a prophet of Jews as well. So Allah reveals (Q 3.5):
(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.
The same is repeated in Q 5:48:
And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed…
But, if they failed to follow Muhammad, Allah threatens them with punishments in the next verse (Q5:49):
…And if they turn away, then know that Allah's Will is to smite them for some sin of theirs. Lo! many of mankind are evil-livers”.
Muslims were fasting without even given the command of fasting before that. As stated in my opening paragraph, Muslims were starved for a long time, far before the journey to Medina. So they did to an initial form of fasting without ever realizing it. They were patient, yet hungry, food came almost never, they survived on the two black things. Black water and black dates. Two of which (water and dates) we break our fasts with.
I love how you stated "…to make it look like an Abrahamic Creed for the first time." Muhammad (saw) always preached he was in the line of Prophets which came, so again it's not for the first time, it's just your ramblings saying so. Quran 3:5 is just another belief of the Muslims. We believe in the continuation of Prophets and that our book confirms the existence of the other books and other laws and other Prophets. Quran 5:48, remember that whole Torah was oral until written down by Tribe of Yahudah above? Yes? Well good, this confirms what I said. Quran 5:49, given what I said above they are deviant so what’s wrong with God punishing them?
“Despite all these pleadings and threats, the Jews did not accept Muhammad as their prophet and ruler. Instead, the Jews became staunch critics of Muhammad’s revelations, because they had the inner knowledge of what is in the Torah, which Muhammad said he brought in its entirety through his Quran. They could easily point out the errors in Muhammad’s messages, which they did putting Muhammad in a defensive and embarrassing position.”
Using one Torah quote, I proved the Jews wrong. Using one quote from the Quran, I proved Muhammad(saw) stance correct. Torah was written not oral. So what inner knowledge of the Torah did they have that we didn’t? Apparently they did not read Deuteronomy 31:26. I don’t know how Muhammad(saw) was in a defensive position or embarrasing position given what I stated. I think that’s just your opinion based on well, whatever hate you have for Islam. It should also be known I’ve put Jews into silence using Quran and Torah alone when debating them. So much so, my followers on twitter and email service are full of Jews and Christians asking more questions about their scripture and them wanting to learn about Quran.
Muhammad (or Allah) eventually became sure that the Jews (& Christians) would, in no way, embrace his message. So Allah came down with a verse (Q 2:120) to relieve Muhammad from further persuasion of them, allowing him do what was needed—the subject of this debate:
Q 2:120
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion. Say: “The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance.” Wert thou to follow their desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither Protector nor helper against Allah.
Again your own opinion contradicts you and I quote "Muhammad continued his preaching unimpeded and the polytheists converted to Islam at a high frequency." Muhammad (saw) did not give up preaching, you said so yourself. Rather what Quran 2:120 os saying is the Jews and Christians will not be happy until Muhammad (saw) follows Judaism and or Christianity and Allah is telling him that Islam is the only Guidance. You said you read Tafsir, this clearly says otherwise.
And not long after Allah revealed these verses, Muhammad, while pursuing with some 300-plus Muslim raiders to attack and plunder a Meccan caravan returning from Syria under Abu Sufian, engaged the Meccans in the battle of Badr and achieved stunning success against an opposition at least double in strength. Muhammad’s confidence was ‘sky high’. The Jews can be challenged now to mete out Allah’s promised punishment to them for rejecting Muhammad, such as in verse 5:49 cited above.
Why skip ahead so much? Let’s look into the story of the caravan, why’d you twist the truth on this one? The Muslims left Makkah, on virtue of them being persecuted. In fact, they had to leave in the cover of the night, with bare essentials on their backs. The truth is, when the Quraysh found out they left, they took the Muslims’ properties and decided to sell it. The Muslims didn’t attack a caravan for no reason, nor were they thieves.
Say you threaten me and I leave my home, I hear you’re on your way to sell my car. I come and fight you for it. How did I steal anything from you?
The Battle of Badr is a miracle of Allah. Stunning, earth-shattering indeed. Proving Quran true, Quran 2:120 which you cited above.
Quran 5:49 has nothing to do with this. They weren't rejecting Muhmmad (saw), they were rejecting God, and if you ask, I can show where the Torah says the Jews did exactly that. Quran 5:49 deals with punishing the Jews, punishment can be either on this earth or in the hereafter. It is not specified, so why insert your opinion there? I thought this debate was based on facts.
Now let us see how Muhammad initiate violence against the Jews, according to the prophet’s earliest and most original biographer Ibn Ishaq (c. 750 CE, preserved through Ibn Hisham):1
Meanwhile there was the affair of the B. Qaynuqa. The apostle assembled them in their market and addressed them as follows: ‘O Jews, beware lest God bring upon you the vengeance that He brought upon Quraysh and become Muslims. You know that I am a prophet who has been sent—you will find that in your scriptures and God's covenant with you.' They replied, 'O Muhammad, you seem to think that we are your people. Do not deceive yourself because you encountered a people (i.e. the Quraysh) with no knowledge of war and got the better of them; for by God if we fight you, you will find that we are real men!'
Let's break this down. Quran says to the Jews, they have deviated, Torah says Jews will become corrrupt. Muhammad(saw) reminds them of this. "O Jews……" and indeed this can be found in God's scripture. The significance of this conversation is evident when we recall that in the Torah for the Jews, it was written that a Prophet would come who would lead those who followed him to victory. Indeed before the Prophet Muhammad came to Madinah, the Jews used to threaten the idol worshippers of Yathrib, as it was then called, that when the next Prophet came to the believers were going to exterminate them, just as the Jews had exterminated other tribes who refused to worship God in the past. As in any case, of the Prophet Jesus, who had been clearly described in the Torah - but rejected by many of the Jews when he actually came - the next and last Prophet was accurately described in the Torah, which also contained signs by which the Jews could easily recognize him. Thus Ka'b al-Ahbar, one of the Jews of that time who embraced Islam, relates that this Prophet is described in the Torah....
Now this is where it gets interesting. Muhammad (saw) is telling the Jews, look what happened, that miracle of God. The battle was not intended to happen but it did and the Muslims won. Won considerably by a great margin. So Muhammad(saw) is referring to the miracle and that Allah did promise victory for the Muslims therefore Quran is true (how can it not be, a verse was fulfilled!).
How do the Jews respond, by threatening war as stated in bold. Muhammad(saw) speaks about Quran being true and the first thing the Jews mention is the defeat of the Quraysh… which means it had to be on their minds at that point in time. They began to fear Quran as true, this was surely a miracle.
‘Say to those who disbelieve: you will be vanquished and gathered to Hell, an evil resting place. You have already had a sign in the two forces which met', i.e. the apostle’s companions at Badr and the Quraysh. ‘One force fought in the way of God; the other, disbelievers, thought they saw double their own force with their very eyes. God strengthens with His help whom He will. Verily in that is an example for the discerning.’ [Quran 3:13]
As the threatening notice of submission served to Banu Qainuqa first by Muhammad, followed by Allah was flatly rejected, it was time for Muhammad to look for an excuse to execute the threat. If Allah is to be believed, Muhammad found no excuse to attack the Jews.
You are inserting opinion here. Muhammad(saw) and the Quran backs up my claim. Muhammad(saw) was referring to a miracle, he was not threatening them. The first threat was issued by the Jews who had seen Muhammad(saw) enemies lose.
There is no reason to find an excuse, we shall see as we continue.
So Allah had to create one, an outrageously silly one at that in verses 8:55–58. The Jews are the worst of beasts, of living creatures, because they would not believe in Muhammad’s messages:
Q 8:55: For the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are those who reject Him: They will not believe.
If I call you a beast, does that warrant an attack on you? Allah is simply stating the worst of people are those who reject Him, this applies to everyone who disbelieves. Taking it out of context and saying it is ONLY for the Jews is highly deceptive. Pharoah wasn’t a Jew, Allah is referring to all who disbelieve.
What punishment do they deserve for being the worst beast because of their rejection of Muhammad? It’s defined in previous verse (Q 8:54), which says they deserved the same punishment Pharaoh suffered for rejecting the ‘Signs of their Lord’ (brought by Moses):
…after the manner of the people of Pharaoh and those before them: They treated as false the Signs of their Lord: so We destroyed them for their crimes, and We drowned the people of Pharaoh: for they were all oppressors and wrong-doers.
Well I don’t know what the problem is here. Pharoah rejected Musa (as) and looked what happened to them. Jews rejected Muhammad (saw) and look what happened, banishment from Islamic Holy Lands, the holocaust!
To create an excuse for attacking the Jews, Allah falsely accused the Jews of breaking treaty in the next verse 8:56:
They are those with whom thou didst make a covenant, but they break their covenant every time, and they have not the fear (of Allah).
Here Allah says the Jews broke treaty repeatedly. In this verse, Allah lied on two counts. First, there was no treaty between Muhammad and the Jews that the latter ever signed, which I will address at the end of this discussion. Second, even if a treaty existed, the Jews never broke it, even not once, forget about their breaking it ‘every time’ as Allah accuses them of. It becomes evident from the next verse, in which Allah commands Muhammad to attack the Jews:
Q 8:58: If thou fearest treachery from any group, throw back (their covenant) to them, (so as to be) on equal terms: for Allah loveth not the treacherous.
Revelation of this verse was a direct command to attack Banu Qainuqa, the first Jewish tribe to face Muhammad’s sword, as Al-Tabari cites the account of al-Zuhri that a verse being brought by Gabriel to Muhammad, which said, ‘And if thou fearest treachery from any folk, then throw back to them their treaty fairly’ [Q 8:58]. Whereupon, Muhammad said, ‘‘I fear Banu Qaynuqa’’ and ‘the Messenger of God advanced upon them.’
So, if Allah is to be believed, this verse was obviously a command, a license, to attack Banu Qainuqa. Although Allah accused the Jews of breaking treaty repeatedly in the earlier verse, here Allah only mentions Muhammad’s fear that the treaty may be broken in the future; the Jews hadn’t broken any treaty yet, which didn’t exist anyway.
In fact, the real reason as to why the Jews should be attacked can be found in the next verse (Q 8:59):
And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah’s Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape.
The Jews were trying to outstrip Allah’s purpose. Allah tried to persuade them in so many verses to accept Muhammad as their prophet, but they not only rejected the repeated pleadings of Allah, but they also ridiculed those messages; they found so many faults with his messages, causing ridicule and embarrassment to Muhammad (& Allah). How dare they! They deserve the gravest of punishment for crime of such mammoth proportion. Let them not escape.
In sum, Muhammad attacked the Jews for his fear that Banu Qainuqa might break some treaty sometime in the future—that is, they did not break it yet but they likely would; and he rushed to attack them.
I don't mean to insult you on any level whatsoever, but this is where your lack of knowledge, lack of basic understanding and false perception as well as deceit come into play. I agree there was no treaty as of yet. Throughout the Quran and Torah, the Treaty is discussed in great detail, however I’ll give myself a second to stop giggling at your mistake.
Take a pen and scratch that entire quotation above. The treaty is referring to the covenant that Allah had with the People of the Scripture and it refers to the land of Israel (Promised Land) and Torah. It has nothing whatsoever, not even an atom’s worth of relation to any treaty between Muslims and Jews at all.
This is your deceit at work or lack of knowledge.
verse 8:56:
They are those with whom thou didst make a covenant, but they break their covenant every time, and they have not the fear (of Allah).
I can show, where corruption of the Torah took place, hence breaking a Torah Law of Deut 4:2, Moses predicted the corruption of the People of the Scripture in Deut 31:25-29, magically Zech 8 talks about how God forgave them, but in Zech 8:16 and 17 God lists three conditions for them to have Israel, another Covenant (this second covenant which there was only one but due to corruption of Torah a second was inserted), anyways within verses 16+17, three conditions were laid out, a covenant with God, all three were broken. So again God is saying He’s angry with the People of the Scripture.
In one case Jacob (Israel) wrestled with God and beat Him up, in Zechariah 8:1 God states He is jealous of His creation, obvious signs of man written, corrupted scripture, which breaks a treaty, a law, a convenant of Deuteronomy 4:2.
So again your lack of knowledge just slef imploded that whole "treaty" argument.
Here’s my youtube video explaining it for the slower of people:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0P3mymNNYg
More evidence from Torah about breaking the covenant:
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! (From the KJV Bible, Matthew 23:37)"
"Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (From the KJV Bible, Matthew 21:43)"
"You have heard these things; look at them all. Will you not admit them? "From now on I will tell you of new things, of hidden things unknown to you. They are created now, and not long ago; you have not heard of them before today. So you cannot say, 'Yes, I knew of them.' You have neither heard nor understood; from of old your ear has not been open. Well do I know how treacherous you are; you were called a rebel from birth. For my own name's sake I delay my wrath; for the sake of my praise I hold it back from you, so as not to cut you off. (From the NIV Bible, Isaiah 48:6-9)"
"So I will disgrace the dignitaries of your temple, and I will consign Jacob to destruction and Israel to scorn. (From the NIV Bible, Isaiah 43:28)"
"But now, all you who light fires and provide yourselves with flaming torches, go, walk in the light of your fires and of the torches you have set ablaze. This is what you shall receive from my hand: You will lie down in torment. (From the NIV Bible, Isaiah 50:11)"
Exodus 32
1 When the people saw that Moses was so long in coming down from the mountain, they gathered around Aaron and said, "Come, make us gods who will go before us. As for this fellow Moses who brought us up out of Egypt, we don't know what has happened to him."
Exodus 32
7 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, have become corrupt.
8 They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, 'These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.'
9 "I have seen these people," the LORD said to Moses, "and they are a stiff-necked people.
Exodus 34
8 Moses bowed to the ground at once and worshiped. 9 "O Lord, if I have found favor in your eyes," he said, "then let the Lord go with us. Although this is a stiff-necked people, forgive our wickedness and our sin, and take us as your inheritance."
Deuteronomy 31
25 he gave this command to the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the LORD :
26 "Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God. There it will remain as a witness against you.
27 For I know how rebellious and stiff-necked you are. If you have been rebellious against the LORD while I am still alive and with you, how much more will you rebel after I die!
28 Assemble before me all the elders of your tribes and all your officials, so that I can speak these words in their hearing and call heaven and earth to testify against them.
29 For I know that after my death you are sure to become utterly corrupt and to turn from the way I have commanded you. In days to come, disaster will fall upon you because you will do evil in the sight of the LORD and provoke him to anger by what your hands have made."
Numbers 16
12 Then Moses summoned Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab. But they said, "We will not come!
13 Isn't it enough that you have brought us up out of a land flowing with milk and honey to kill us in the desert? And now you also want to lord it over us?
14 Moreover, you haven't brought us into a land flowing with milk and honey or given us an inheritance of fields and vineyards. Will you gouge out the eyes of these men? No, we will not come!"
Numbers 14
10 But the whole assembly talked about stoning them. Then the glory of the LORD appeared at the Tent of Meeting to all the Israelites.
11 The LORD said to Moses, "How long will these people treat me with contempt? How long will they refuse to believe in me, in spite of all the miraculous signs I have performed among them?
12 I will strike them down with a plague and destroy them, but I will make you into a nation greater and stronger than they."
Numbers 14
22 not one of the men who saw my glory and the miraculous signs I performed in Egypt and in the desert but who disobeyed me and tested me ten times-
23 not one of them will ever see the land I promised on oath to their forefathers. No one who has treated me with contempt will ever see it.
24 But because my servant Caleb has a different spirit and follows me wholeheartedly, I will bring him into the land he went to, and his descendants will inherit it.
Numbers 16
29 If these men die a natural death and experience only what usually happens to men, then the LORD has not sent me.
30 But if the LORD brings about something totally new, and the earth opens its mouth and swallows them, with everything that belongs to them, and they go down alive into the grave, then you will know that these men have treated the LORD with contempt."
31 As soon as he finished saying all this, the ground under them split apart.
While this is the reason given by Allah and Muhammad for attacking Banu Qainuqa, there is another story created by later about the Jews, who allegedly killed a companion of Muhammad. Mr. Shuja’ah also mentioned about it in our previous exchange in making his case as to why the Jews deserved what Muhammad did to them, saying:
The Jews hated Islam and still do. They poisoned Muhammad (saw) and killed one of his companions.
Prophet Muhammad was poisoned after his conquest of Khaybar in 628 CE by an enslaved Jewish woman in revenge. By this time, Muhammad had cleansed all the Jews of Medina. So this poisoning incident cannot be considered as a reason for Muhammad’s punishing the Jews of Medina.
Let me correct you on this one, the woman was not enslaved or in danger ( this is proven with the sources I have cited below in an article used) . Why would Muhammad(saw) and all the Muslims let a Jewish woman, whom they have deemed an enemy cook and eat from what she has cooked? Her sworn enemy. Why was she allowed to have food if she was enslaved? Why was she allowed to walk, by herself, with no chains or guards to Muhammad(saw) and see her captor and feed him? Didn’t they just capture an entire town? Why didn’t they rape her or kill her?
Again your lies aren’t sufficient against logical questions. This also was not a punishment for the Jews, we’ll get to why the Jews were fought and eventually they lost. This battle is one of many where the Musims held the forts (numerous forts) by the Jews. The muslims simply camped outside the forts and when the Jews ran out of food and or water they were captured.
Concerning the Jews’ killing one of Muhammad’s companions, a story is included in his later biography by Al-Waqidi (d. 822). According to the story, sometime after the threat to Banu Qainuqa by Muhammad and Allah, a Meccan girl, married to an ansar (Medinan convert), went to the shop of a goldsmith in the market-place of Banu Qainuqa (Qainuqa were goldsmiths & richest community), where waiting for some ornaments, she sat down. A silly Jewish prankster pinned the lower hem of her skirt behind to the upper dress. When she stood up, the awkward exposure excited laughter, and she screamed with shame. A Muslim, apprised of the affront, slew the prankster; and the brethren of the Jew fell upon the Muslim murderer and killed him in return.
It should be noted here that because of this silly incident, nobody deserved to die. The prankster deserved a rebuke at best. Muslims’ killing him was an act of barbarism, unacceptable to any kind of justice. And of course, after the two lives from the two parties, one from Banu Qainuqa and other from Muslims, had been lost, the justice/injustice was equal on both side; and it should been resolved by calling a meeting between leaders of the two parties.
Hold up, you are justifying an act against a woman. Apparently, you do not understand Islam, a woman must keep her privacy it is her right. Let me ask you a simple question, I see your mother or daughter, I did as the Jew did and when she stands up in a central square with atleast a few hundred people, most people saw her legs and undergarments and many began to laugh. I got so exicted I screamed and howled and laughed at how stupid your mother or daughter looked.
Hey it's just a joke, I mean what privacy she supposed to have, don't like what’s said don't approve of it.
I mean like the Jews said, an eye for an eye. In fact for spying or otherwise the punishment of the Torah is quite clear. Not only did he expose her privacy but it is an act of spying, do you disagree? I spied your mother’s underwear and legs and etc…
The punishment in the Torah for that is:
Esther 2:23 (King James Version)
23 And when inquisition was made of the matter, it was found out; therefore they were both hanged on a tree: and it was written in the book of the chronicles before the king.
Death, so what act the Muslim did, was according to the Torah., you can read the chapter and see it for yourself.
killing him was an act of barbarism, unacceptable to any kind of justice. And of course, after the two lives from the two parties, one from Banu Qainuqa and other from Muslims, had been lost, the justice/injustice was equal on both side; and it should been resolved by calling a meeting between leaders of the two parties.
So you rather we insult the Jews and not follow there justice which you find unacceptable, but you find it acceptable we should insult them and break their law? Hypocritical are we not M.A. Khan?
But no, Muhammad was just waiting for something like this to occur. And on the pretext of this brawl, says al-Waqidi, Muhammad besieged the entire community of Banu Qaynuqa. After a fifteen-day siege, the Jews surrendered. In order to mete out the deserving punishment to the Jews, which was to be similar to the way Allah had destroyed the people of Pharaoh by drowning them all, Muhammad ordered the surrendered men to be tied for their summary execution. At this point, Abdullah ibn Obayi—the famed hypocrite of Islam, but a rather humane chief of the Khazraj clan, who had converted to Islam but had a dubious allegiance to Muhammad’s mission—firmly intervened. He even threatened Muhammad with consequences had he slaughtered the Jews.2 As a result, Muhammad prudently relented from slaughtering the prisoners. Instead, he exiled them to Syria.
On the basis of this discussion, I conclude the Jews never ever aggressively attacked and killed Muslims, as Shuja’ah claims, which made Muhammad to attack and evict them. Muhammad, therefore, had no justification to attack the Jews. Instead, it is Muslims, who were responsible for shedding blood of a Jew of Banu Qainuqa first for no justifiable reason. And Muhammad’s attacking the whole community and attempting to slaughter them en masse, on account of an individual ignorable silly act, was an instance of taking unjustified barbarism to the extreme.
And all that doesn’t matter as the Muslims did follow the Law of the Torah, an eye for an eye, spying = death. So if it's barbaric then Jews are barbaric, unjustified, then Jews are unjustified, extreme? Then Jews are extreme. Replace the word Jew with Muslim and you’ll have your answer.
Did a treaty, the so-called Constitution of Medina, exist between Muslims and the Jews?
We have noted above that Allah accuses the Jews of repeatedly breaking a treaty. Ibn Ishaq likewise writes:
Asim b. ‘Umar b. Qatada said that the B. Qaynuqa were the first of the Jews to break their agreement with the apostle and to go to war, between Badr and Uhud, and the apostle besieged them until they surrendered unconditionally.
Muslims boast about this so-called treaty—known as the ‘Constitution of Medina’ and considered the ideal blueprint of the Islamic state—as an epitome of tolerance, human rights and justice to people of all faiths in Islamic state. I will go into detail of the terms of the treaty, which is readers can find in Ibn Ishasq (p. 231-232): it is nothing but a document, demanding unconditional subjugation of all Medinans to the political and religious commands of Muhammad, a recent refugee in Medina. I will, however, prove that the treaty was never signed by the Jews; they probably never saw it. This treaty, according to Ibn Ishaq, begins as thus:
In the name of God the Compassionate, the Merciful. This is a document from Muhammad the prophet between the believers and Muslims of Quraysh and Yathrib, and those who followed them and joined them and labored with them.3
It becomes clear that this document was an invitation from Muhammad and his Muslim community to other tribes of Medina (the Jews included) to assemble after Muhammad and follow his commands. This opening in no way suggests that it was signed by any non-Muslim party.
It "suggests", bring conclusive evidence and keep your opinion and "suggestions" to yourself please. This is a debate, where facts are used not, your opinion.
And moreover, we have seen above that not only Muhammad but also Allah agreed that the Jew would not accept Islam and submit to Muhammad’s leadership.
The ignorant and close minded won’t, but as you said, ““Muhammad continued his preaching unimpeded and the polytheists converted to Islam at a high frequency.”
Under these circumstances, is there any ground to believe that the Jews would sign a document, which starts with the words: “This is a document from Muhammad the prophet…” Signing this document means not only submitting to Muhammad’s leadership, but also to his prophethood, a claim which the Jews ridiculed in the least.
We’re almost there! The Jews were losing power of Yathrib, the Muslims had become the larger of the populations and the rich Jews had no means of getting richer, Islam prohibited many things whuch they sold and with the state of discourse between them trade was horrible. The Jews committed an act of treason to which we will get to.
Similarly the document ends with these words:
God approves of this document… Muhammad is the apostle of God.
We can again be sure that the Jews would never have signed this document, which says “Muhammad is the apostle of God”, which they flatly rejected, indeed ridiculed, all along. Quite agreeing with this assertion, Montgomery Watt (a Western Islamic scholar favorite to Muslims, whose books are published in Pakistan) records that there were nine contracting parties in this document: they were the Muslim refugee from Mecca and Medinan Arab tribes (non-Jewish), who had become essentially Islamic by converting to Islam in large numbers after Muhammad’s arrival in Medina. None of the Jewish tribes were a co-signatory in this document.4
This proves beyond doubt that the Jews would never have signed this document.
Again, we’re looking for evidence. Not what you think or what another author thought, we’re looking for evidence.
Instead, it was most likely a document that records a secret understanding between Muhammad and the Medinan pagan-turn-Muslim tribes, who had long-standing alliances with the Jewish clans. As Muhammad was planning to deal with the Jews because of their obstinate refusal to embrace Islam, he needed this document or understanding with his Medinan converts to create an excuse to strike the Jews. There is no alternative “logical” explanation to it.
When the siege intensified and became unbearable for Banu Qurayzah, they wanted to surrender and accept whatever judgment the Prophet passed on them. They consulted Abu Lubabah ibn Abd al Mundhir, one of the companions of the Prophet who was also their ally, and he indicated that if they surrendered, they would be killed. Abu Lubabah later regretted saying this, and tied himself to one of the pillars in the Prophet’s Mosque until his repentance was accepted.23 Banu Qurayzah agreed to accept the judgment of Sa’d ibn Mu’adh; they thought that he would show mercy to them, because of the alliance between them and his people, al Aws.
Sa’d was carried to them, because he had been wounded in the hand by an arrow at the Battle of the Ditch, and was ill. He judged that the warriors should be killed, and their wealth shared. The Messenger confirmed this and said: “You have judged according to God’s judgment.”24 By doing this, Sad ibn Mu’adh disowned his alliance with Banu Qurayzah. This did not disturb the Aws at all, despite their alliance with Banu Qurayzah and the fact that they had only recently entered Islam. Their acceptance of this was facilitated by the fact that their leader Sa’d passed judgment on Banu Qurayzah. The number of warriors who were executed was 400.25 Three of Banu Qurayzah were spared because they entered Islam26 and they kept their wealth; three others may have been spared because they were protected by some of the companions because of their loyalty to the treaty during the siege. There are many reports dealing with this, but they cannot be taken as valid evidence. The prisoners were detained in the house of Bint al Harith.27
The executions were carried out in the market place in Madinah, where trenches were dug; they were killed in groups and thrown into the trenches.28 Only one of their women was killed29; she had killed one of the companions — Khalid ibn Suwayd — by dropping a millstone on him.
Boys below the age of puberty were released.30 After the execution of the warriors had been carried out, the Prophet divided their wealth and appointed the women to the custody of the Muslims.31 The books of Maghazi give some detail of how the division was carried out, but their reports cannot be taken as valid evidence.
The Messenger chose Rayhanah ibn Khanafah, one of the women prisoners, for himself, according to Ibn Ishaq, Ibn Sa’d and many others. Al Waqidi and those who followed him said that he married her, but the first suggestion is more likely.
Some contemporary historians tend to deny and weaken the reports dealing with the punishment faced by Banu Qurayzah32 on the basis that proving these reports may hurt humanitarian feelings or serve the interests of Zionist propaganda, but this is not the case. The most authentic Islamic sources prove that it happened. The severe punishments were only given because of the acts of high treason which Banu Qurayzah committed when they betrayed the Muslims and broke the treaty, instead of participating with them in defending Madinah, in accordance with the treaty between the two sides. In this day and age, nations still execute traitors who cooperate with the enemy.
The punishment of Banu Qurayzah fitted their crime, because they had exposed the Muslims to the threat of being killed, their wealth to the threat of being seized, and their women and children to the threat of being taken prisoner; therefore, their punishment was a fitting recompense. There is no need to avoid historical facts or to deny authentic reports.
1. Ibn Sa’d, al Tabaqat, 3/74; Ibn Hisham, al Sirah, 3/715; Al Tabari, Tarikh al Rusul, 3/593; Ibn Sayyid al Nas, Uyun al Athar, 3/68
2. Abd al Razzaq, al Musannaf, 5/367; Ibn Hisham, al Sirah, 3/699; al Haythami, Majma’ al Zawa’id, 6/143: he attributed it to al Tabarani and said that the men in the isnad are thiqah.
3. Al Bukhari, at Sahih, 3/33, 73; see also Malik’s suggestion.
4. Ibn Kathir, al Bidayah, 4/934; and al Sirah at Nabawiyyah, 3/180-1; Ibn Qayyim, Zad al Ma’ad, 388-9; Ibn Hajar, Fath al Bari, 7/393
5. Abd al Razzaq reported this from the mursal hadith of Sa’id ibn al Musayyab, which are the most sahih mursal hadith. The report is valid as evidence, if there are other reports which support it (al Musannaf, 5/368-373). Abu Nu’aym, from the mursal hadith of Sa’id also (Abu Nu’aym, Dala’il al Nubuwwah, 3/183).
6. Al Bukhari, al Sahih, 3/306; Muslim, al Sahih, 7/138
7. Ibn Hisham, al Sirah, 3/706, without isnad.
8. Al-Waqidi, al Maghazi, 3/454-9; Al Tabari, Tarikh al Rusul, 3/570-3; Ibn Hazm, Jawami al Sirah, 187-8; Ibn Abd al Barr, al Durar, 181-3; Ibn Sayyid al Nas, Uyun al Athar, 3/59-60; Ibn Kathir, at Bidayah, 3/103-4
9. Ibn Kathir, al Bidayah, 3/103-4
10. Al Bukhari, al Sahih, 3/24; Ahmad, al Musnad, 6/56, 131, 280
11. Al Bukhari, al Sahih, 3/24; 144
12. Bukhari (Ibid., 3/24); Muslim (Muslim, al Sahih, 5/163) say Zuhr.
13. Ibn Hisham, al Sirah, 3/716-7, from the mursal hadith of Ma’bad ibn Ka’b ibn Malik, who is maqbul.
14. Ibn Hajar,
15. Fath al Bari
16. Ibn Hisham, al Sirah, 3/716; Ibn Sa’d, al Tabaqat, 3/74 (both without isnad).
17. Ibn Hisam, al Sirah, 3/716; Ibn Hajar, Fath at Bari, 7/413
18. Tabari, Tarikh al Rusul, 2/583, the narrator himself said that he was unsure as to whether it was a month or 25 days.
19. Al Sa’ati, al Fath al Rabbani li Tartib Musnad al Imam Ahmad, 21/81-3. All the narrators are reliable.
20. Ibn Sa’d, al Tabaqat, 3/74, without isnad.
21. Ibn Kathir, al Bidayah, 4/118-9; Ibn Hajar, Fath at Bari, 7/413; mursal from Musa ibn Uqbah from al Zuhri.
22. Tabari, Tarikh al Rusul, 2/583; Ibn Hazm, Jawami al Sirah, 193; Ibn Abd al Barr, al Durar, 189; Ibn Sayyid al Nas, ‘Uyun al Athar, 2/69
23. Al Sa’ati, al Fath al Rabbani, 21/81-3, with a hasan isnad.
24. Al Bukhari, al Sahih, 2/210, 3/24-25; Muslim, al Sahih, 5/160-1
25. Ahmad, al Musnad, 3/350, with a hasan isnad; Ibn Hajar (Fath al Bari, 7/14) mentioned the differences in their numbers, ranging from 400 to 900, and reconciled the different reports by saying that the increase included the followers of Banu Qurayzah, such as slaves, freedmen, and others.
26. Al Bukhari, al Sahih, 3/11; Muslim, al Sahih, 5/159. The three who entered Islam were: Tha’labah ibn Sa’iyah, Usayd ibn Sa’iyah and Asad ibn ‘Ubayd.
27. This is the report of Ibn Ishaq (Ibn Hisham, al Sirah, 3/721). ‘Urwah mentions it was the house of Usamah ibn Zayd. The reports can be reconciled by saying that the prisoners were put in two houses because of their great numbers.
28. Ahmad, al Musnad, 3/351; al Tirmidhi, Sunan, 4/144-5
29. Ibn Hisham, al Sirah, 3/722; Ahmad, al Musnad, 6/277; Abu Dawud, al Sunan, 2/150. Its isnad is hasan li dhatih.
30. Ibn Hisham, al Sirah, 3/724; Ibn Sa’d, al Tabaqat, 2/72-7
31. Al Bukhari, al Sahih, 3/11; Muslim, al Sahih, 5/159
32. See the research of Dr. Walid Arafat in the papers of the World Sirah Conference in Qatar. Ed. note: See the same paper in The Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland, 1976, pp. 100-107
With this, I look forward to Mr. Shuja’ah’s response.
----
MA Khan
In fact, what was the reason in the FIRST place for the Jews to be attacked?
If we recall as stated above:
Meanwhile there was the affair of the B. Qaynuqa. The apostle assembled them in their market and addressed them as follows: ‘O Jews, beware lest God bring upon you the vengeance that He brought upon Quraysh and become Muslims. You know that I am a prophet who has been sent—you will find that in your scriptures and God's covenant with you.’ They replied, ‘O Muhammad, you seem to think that we are your people. Do not deceive yourself because you encountered a people (i.e. the Quraysh) with no knowledge of war and got the better of them; for by God if we fight you, you will find that we are real men!’
As I explained above Muhammad(saw) was referring to a miracle, which are signs, which Allah said they would deny and that itself is another Quran prophesy coming through. That’s two at one time before the Jews who had seen the Muslims win a miraculous battle.
So here we have the Jews with that battle on their mind, threatening war. What started the fight against the Medinan Jews?
From Ibn Hisham's Sirat Rasul Allah ("The Life of the Prophet of God" - the oldest extant biography of Muhammad), page 365. The background to his murder is that after the battle of Badr, Ka'b b. al-Ashraf was horrified by Muhammad's victory, and the death of certain Arab leaders. I'll start with Kab's quote expressing his surprise at the Muslim victory.
QUOTE FROM THE SIRAT RASULALLAH
"Is this true? Did Muhammad actually kill these whom these two men mention? These are the nobles of the Arabs and kingly men; by God, if Muhammad has slain these people it were better to be dead than alive." When the enemy of god became certain that the news was true he left the town and went to Mecca to stay with al-Muttalib who was married to Atika. She took him in and entertained him hospitably. He began to inveigh against the apostle and to recite verses in which he bewailed the Quraysh who were thrown into the pit after having been slain at Badr."
From this we see the Jews did not only threaten but they had committed an act of treason against the Muslims, for which as I quoted above is death.
Esther 2:23 (King James Version)
23And when inquisition was made of the matter, it was found out; therefore they were both hanged on a tree: and it was written in the book of the chronicles before the king.
Not only did the commit treason, they incited the enemy to attack the Muslims. So while M.A. Khan chooses to ignore such facts and calls the actions of Muslims barbaric, we were fighting these wars with their guidelines.
In fact, why is M.A. Khan supporting the Jews when they have committed Genocide on a number of occassions. Let us refer to the Torah for a small dip into this exciting topic:
"They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man........Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. (Numbers 31:7,17-18)"
Deuteronomy 20:16
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.
1 Samuel 15:2-4
2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
4 And Saul gathered the people together, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah.
Psalm 137:8-9
8 O daughter of Babylon, O destroyed one, O the happiness of him who repayeth to thee thy deed, That thou hast done to us.
9 O the happiness of him who doth seize, And hath dashed thy sucklings on the rock!
In fact all of these added together, is more genocide than any of us can ever imagine. So again Muslims saved the day, but helping stop genocidal maniacs whom M.A. Khan seems to have a liking for.
I also kindly ask M.A. Khan to provide full quotations and not just list Quranic verses and Hadith, this isn’t a game where you say and I look.
Let s also be known, the same day M.A. Khan sent the article, I responded, with several hours while playing Killzone 2. Otherwise it would have been within the hour.
And if you were wondering why I put M.A. Khan’s writing in dirt brown, you’ve just seen why.
I kindly request that Mr. Khan responds quickly as I did, I am a busy guy and have no time to wait on his deceits, half truths, half quotes, out of quotes, authors I have never heard of, his opinions and his suggestions.
Yours Truly,
Abu Shuja’ah Ibn Harb (A 17 year old kid, who’s Muslim and loving Islam)
www.myislamicfamily.wordpress.com
Allahu Alam.
Subscribe to this comment's feed
written by Abu Shuja\'ah , July 09, 2009
Abu Shuja'ah,
I admire your passion for reading scripture, but sadly see you have not understood prophecy.
Also you make a fundamental error in believing God of the Bible is the same as Allah of the Quran.
They are the same God, you deny this, you deny the Holy Spirit, The Abysinnian Christian King stated Christianity and Islam came from the same source. I don't know about you, but denying a man who had the Spirit in him is denying your spirit, the greatest sin in Christianity.
It can be proven that Allah is in fact the same as Satan in the Bible.
You quote Isaiah, but do you understand these:-
Isaiah 14:12 calls Satan "Hilal ben Sahar"
Now Hilal = crescent moon and Sahar = morning star.
The flag of Islam is crescent moon and morning star.
Ezekiel 38 declares the armies of Satan to be Turkey, Syria, Iran, Pakistan, Egypt, Libya etc. - all Islamic countries
Revelation 20 describes Satan's army using beheading as a ritual. Sura 47:4 and Sura 8:12 etc.
The flag of Islam is the Shahadah, not the moon and star, that's the flag of Pakistan, don't confuse culture with religion. In fact The Pagans used the Moon and Star and worshipped both.
When one looks at Emmanu-EL and samu-EL and micha-EL, they are all Pagan names, derived from the moon God.
When one looks at Jesus' real name, IESOUS, in Greek IE- meaning HAIL and SOUS/ZUS/ZOUS/SUS - meaning ZUES.
So there you go Pagan origins in JESUS' name.
Isaiah 46 quotes God as predicting future events, and the Bible has milestone prophecies.
Hosea predicts the fall of Israel and Samaria that happened in 725BC, Isaiah and Jeremiah predict the Babylonian invasion and captivity. Daniel 12 predicts the building of the Dome of the Rock in 688AD and calls it an Abomination that Desolates.
Moses' predicted the fall of Israel and Samaria, and the Quran backs up their claim, all I see is Christians supproting Jews nowadays.....when for 2000 years it was hate and war. Which Moses and Quran said would happen.
The Dome of the Rock or Al Sakhrah Mosque is hailed by architects and non-muslims are in awe of it. Just because the Bible written by man says something, doesn't mean its true. Like it is said in the Bible, it is false, it is a lie. Jeremiah 8:8 says the OT is a lie which Moses predicted and Deuteronomy 4:2 nullifies the NT.
Daniel 9 predicts the very day that Jesus would ride into Jerusalem on a donkey (10th Nisan).
The Dead Sea Scrolls contain a fragment called 11Qmelsch which identifies Jesus as the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 61 and also the one who would be killed after Daniel 9:26. That is AMAZING.
Jesus rose on a colt and a donkey, guess Daniel was wrong.
Jesus was a servant, God cannot be a servant and the server and the sametime. If God is a servant unto himself, it's called blasphemy and he ain't all powerful.
Abu Shuja’a, you quote:
"Muhammad(saw), the greatest man to ever grace this earth "
Let us just analyse this.
Jesus was a virgin birth, Mohammed wasn't.
Jesus taught that the meek will inherit the earth, Mohammed taught that terror made him successful.
Jesus restored sight to the blind, Mohammed gauged out eyes to make men blind.
Jesus made the lame walk, Mohammed cut off feet to make men lame.
Jesus taught that in Heaven people will be like angels and not marry, Mohammed promised 72 virgins and sex. (Jesus warned that only FALSE prophets promise sex).
Do you still think Mohammed was the greatest?
Adam had neither parents, a more miraculous birth.
Jesus taught gentiles were worse than dogs, and Jesus was a molestor (I can prove this.)
Muhammad(saw) was allies with the Christians, if he spread terror than his allies helped him.
Where did Muhammad (saw) gouge eyes? In fact Jesus said what ever makes you sin remove it. He said if the eyes make you lust, gouge them out (ask for evidence I will give).
Muhammad (saw) cut the feet of men? Evidence?
Jesus died and went to hell, the Bible says so.
Jesus promises your reward was 144,000 virgin young men, we get women you get gay sex, go figure.
In fact Jesus warned people about not understanding revealed scripture.
"The coming of the lawless one is apparent in the working of Satan, who uses all power, signs, lying wonders, and every kind of deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
For this reason, God sends them a powerful delusion, leading them to believe what is false".
[2 Thessalonians 2:9-11]
Matthew 10:34
Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
1 Samuel 15:2,3
2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt.3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy [a] everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' "
Numbers 31:17,18
17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man,18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 20:16
16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.
Wow, not only that Jesus sinned!
Sin
1Kings 8:46 ¶ “When they sin against you — for there is no one who does not sin
He was man and God at the same time no?
ISLAM is the Powerful Delusion designed to lead astray, and you Abu are being led astray!!!!
Which Spirit do you have in you?
1 Samuel 18:10 "The next day an evil spirit from God came forcefully upon Saul. He was prophesying in his house, while David was playing the harp, as he usually did. Saul had a spear in his hand..." GOD Almighty has an evil spirit? Obviously not, it's only metaphoric as mentioned above.
1 Samuel 19:9 "But an evil spirit from the LORD came upon Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand. While David was playing the harp,..." ANOTHER EVIL SPIRIT FROM GOD?!
1 Kings 22:22 " 'By what means?' the LORD asked. " 'I will go out and be a LYING spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said. " 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.'
1 Kings 22:23 "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."
2 Chronicles 18:21 " 'I will go and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said. " 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.'
Mohammed encouraged his followers to bear false witness to kill an enemy, and Mohammed actually broke the TEN Commandments of Moses.
Read above so did the Spirit, the other half od God, so if God did it, why complain about Muhammad(saw)?
But Jesus also in his wisdom left visible signs to mankind. Over 300 people have been gifted with the crucifixion wounds of Jesus, starting with St Francis of Asisisi (1224-1226) and lastly, most famously with Padre Pio from 1918-1968.
Padre Pio from San Giovanni Rotondo bore the 2 feet wounds, the two hand wounds and the spear wound in his side for 50 years,
Not only that Jesus gifted this man with many charisms.
1. he could make himself invisible
2. he could bi-locate (be physically in 2 places at once)
3. he performed miraculous healings
4. he predicted the future, even the exact day he would die
5. he had the gift of perfume which would denote his presence when not visible
There are many people alive today who can testify to this. There are many books and videos on his life.
Abu, God has sent visible signs to mankind to remind people of the crucifixion and its importance to God.
Ignore this at your peril.
1. Prove any of the miracles you claimed Jesus did above, we have NON-MUSLIM sources backing our evidences.
2. Muhammad (saw) predicted, cell phones, people competing to build buildings into the sky, fitna such as murder, homosexuality, people killing without knowing who they were killing and why, he even described the dates and times.
3. Quran explains birth perfectly, modern science agrees, Quran explains water cycle perfectly, Bible mixes it up and leaves out important parts!
4.Bible says eart stands on pillars, it is a circle and has four corners!
In fact you are deceived, Paul told the Jews he believed what they believed. Do you do that? Do you believe in sin and good deeds and reward? No, so who is lying Christianity ir Paul?
Paul was called a Christian he despised that name, he called himself a People of the Way, in fact Christianity is a word made by the Pharisees to insult the People of the Way.
Come on, you can do better than that.
written by Abu Shuja\'ah , July 09, 2009
Not only that Jesus gifted this man with many charisms.
1. he could make himself invisible
2. he could bi-locate (be physically in 2 places at once)
3. he performed miraculous healings
4. he predicted the future, even the exact day he would die
5. he had the gift of perfume which would denote his presence when not visible
There are many people alive today who can testify to this. There are many books and videos on his life.
Abu, God has sent visible signs to mankind to remind people of the crucifixion and its importance to God.
Ignore this at your peril.
Prove any of the miracles above with non-Christian sources.
Muhammad (saw) also cured the sick, he took an entire people and changed them in 5 years Islam with no violence had an empire.
400 years after Jesus the Bible came, 400 years!
After the Bible came the genocide of women as they were a disgrace to humans and a threat to the church.
That's some Jesus lovin' right there.
In fact Jesus was jealous of Zion (Israel) his first son, how many sons did Jesus have????? and why is God jealous?
In fact Quran says God will allow those who believe other than the way of Allah to believe in their lies.
Moses said this in Torah as well.
1. Your God lusted.
2. Your God had an evil lying spirit in him.
3. Your God lied/ commited hypocritical actions.
4. Your God slept.
5. Your God eats.
6. Your God cursed a fig tree and didn't know figs were out of season!
All Powerful God, All Sustaining God, All Knowing God does any of those things????
Chirstians say, the law cannot be fulfiiled by any man! Jesus said to follow the law of the Jews! Jesus was a man he followed it!
You say the law could not be done, yet a man Jesus did it, you say he aboloshed the law because no man can do it.
So your merciless God fooled the Jews, made them practise a law they couldn't fulfill and now they get hell?
Heck even my God says he'll reward those who do good in this world.
Your God says them to hell. HAHA
written by Shiva Worshipper , July 09, 2009
I think organised religion is about domination in the name of God, because it provide moral authority to people to kill others or motivate followers to do so and the followers will compete with each other to claim more closeness to prophet or God, even if that competition is about killing and raping non-believers. Mohammad justify his reasons for conquest in the name of God, I can guarantee, Muslims will find reasons everywhere to kill the infidels or each other.
To control what anarchy, did Muslims came to India ? I am sure Muslims will find thousand reasons for that, but at the core you are simply justifying killing of people who got no business with you or your prophet. You are justifying killing which any animal in the wild can do nothing glorifying or higher about it.
Sometime attitude and natural make of the person is more influential than his religious or moral upbringing. If you are a wicked person at heart, you will always have reasons to justify your wickedness and if you are a kind person you will always have reasons to justify your kindness, you don’t need some God from the sky to teach you morals, it can naturally come up with life experiences.
Mr. Abu said that he is 17 years old and he is too proud to know so much about religion in this early age, than my friend I tell you one incident from my life when I was 17 years old. I did not worry about reading any religious books or looking on to some God for moral guidance at that time. Even now I only read or think about, what I find interesting and I still find many religious books boring and I choose not to read/listen to them, even If the God threatened me to go to hell, if I don’t read/listen to it. I advise that God to be a good interesting author and you would not, need scare tactics to market your thoughts.
Anyway Its up readers to decide how much of the religion or morality I have missed at age 17 from the incident described below.
In India we are taught to respect the elders, so the disadvantage of that is, even if sometimes the elder may be wrong the young kid who is taught to respect the elders think that wisdom is matter of age and if elder is saying something than it must be right. Once one uncle filled a lot of poison in me against the child beggars in the streets, he was telling me, things like: by giving money to these begging children you are encouraging there bad habits, they smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol with that money and some day when they don’t get money by begging then they snatch people purse. If you are rude to them or give them a tight slap, they will stop begging and will look for some work and so on.
Next day I was in the market to do the social reform by myself and clean the society of evil and wrong elements. One young boy came to me and start begging for money, I scolded that boy very rudely and start threatening to beat him as advised by uncle, the young boy started crying and handed his shoe over to me to hit him on his head with that. I dropped his shoe and went home but for many days I keep feeling guilty about that incident, whenever I remember the tears of the boy I start getting the thought “ If I cannot help anyone, then no body gave me right to hurt them as well, I could have said, sorry No and moved on”.
This incident keep invoking my guilty conscious for two three months, then one day in the market I saw one restaurant owner beating the dishwashing boy in his shop. I immediately knew its my opportunity to redeem myself, I went to the shop and snatched the stick from the restaurant owner, I pushed him back, and threatened him that if I see him beating the boy again, I am going to break his teeth, the shopkeeper was stunned and the boy stopped crying.
Now whenever I remember the boy to whom eyes I brought the tears, I don’t have guilty conscious because it also make me remember the helpless boy whom I saved, and it makes me feel that I was not bad person at heart, I hurt someone because I was influenced by poison of bad brainwashing.
written by Mansur , July 09, 2009
written by Abu Shuja\'ah , July 09, 2009
To control what anarchy, did Muslims came to India ? I am sure Muslims will find thousand reasons for that, but at the core you are simply justifying killing of people who got no business with you or your prophet. You are justifying killing which any animal in the wild can do nothing glorifying or higher about it.
The most successful period India had and or most of it was united occurred when Islam controlled it.
The Mughal empire etc and their predecessors controlled India for a few generations.
Do you know who headed the Muslim army? A local Heda tribe (what we call Hindus) were put in charge of the armies of the empire.
A Muslim gave the armies of his empire to be controlled by Hindus, the tribes had an alliance.
The south and despised the north Hindus and they fought, what armies did the Hindu general use? His own.
If you want to blame anyone for atrocities blame the Hindus who used the Muslims ;-)
written by MuslimPig , July 09, 2009
India's best time was within last 3000 years was during Mauryan Dynasty like vikramaditya, samudragupta and Asoka, then Maratha, Vijayanagara and Ranjit Singh sikh rule.
Even during the muslim rule by mughals, muslims used to kill muslims. That time was like flux. Hemu has a lot of muslim persons in army when he defeated lot of muslim kings. Unfortunately he lead the army against Akbar's and even though he was on the way to defeating it one arrow struck his eye, and bairam Khan killed him. No Hindu king has ever harmed the women or children. Muslims always attacked the women and children and concubinage was famous in all muslim rules. Even now in arabia , sheiks have harams.
Akbar became non-muslim and only then he was able to maintain his empire as he needed the intelligence of hindus for administration. Hindus are tolerant and peaceful people that's why they have not initiated any attack on muslims.
When India was fighting her independence muslims formed 'muslim league' to harass hindus and made a terrorist state of pakistan, which cant survive a single day without the help of US aids. Hindus and sikhs fought against british to get independence with muslims as unnecessary baggage.
written by To Abu Shujiah , July 09, 2009
Khadija was the leader of the caravan and she choosed his thug and married him (piss be upon him).
This thug after khadija died started killing the innocent people, created a cult with which so many people are suffering.
How can a muslim beleive in this wretched man who raped a six year girl, raped many married ladies whose husbands he killed,raped his daughter in law and created a haram culture. So disgusting are muslims.
written by Abu Shuja\'ah , July 09, 2009
Before Islam came, The earlier civilizations were very advanced and Humane. Like Persia, Byzantine, Egypt, Indian. Only Arabia was in free state.
Wrong, slave trading, women, alcohol, disease were rife, is you care to dispute this please so do with evidences.
But the people were tolerant and even women used to be leader of the group. Many poets were there like 'asma bint marwan', the scoety was good arabs, jews, christians, athiests, polytheists etc were living nicely together untill this thug, rapist muhammed came. He created a criminal gang of people and created the satanic verses to fight against all the good in the humanity.
Actually to the contrary, women did not lead groups, infact to have a female child was considered a curse and female babies were buried in the sand.
The city was a center for religion or irreligion.
Muhammad (saw) was called by this entire city of polytheists, atheists and christians and jews as the "Truthful One." Their holiest site, the Kabah needed repair and only one person did all people agree on was appointed to place this brick to appease ALL. Muhammad (saw).
He was not a rapist. Misinformation on your part. It is haram (illegal) for a Muslim to have sex before puberty (for the person to have or have with someone else.)
Khadija was the leader of the caravan and she choosed this blessed man and married him (saw).
This man after khadija died started killing the innocent people, created a cult with which so many people are suffering.
How can a muslim beleive in this wretched man who raped a six year girl, raped many married ladies whose husbands he killed,raped his daughter in law and created a haram culture. So disgusting are muslims.
All of those things are wrong.
In fact for the first years of his Prophethood, his people were hunted down and killed, they never resorted to fighting.
He did not rape, he had to wait for puberty to even have sex with her, in fact how could he have sex with her, if they he was a man who fasted most of his days, was always in the mosque, stayed up nights praying, teaching etc....where would the room be?????
It is haram to sleep with a married woman ;-)
In fact the law states, if that was to be done it would have only happened if she was UNmarried and was temporarily married (muta marriage, which was later aboloshed.)
In fact www.ageofconsent.com) records age of sexual consent all over the world and less that one century ago in most parts of the world, girls were being have sex with at the age of TEN.
As for rapist, please read the Torah and Bible:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/age3.htm
Allahu Alam.
written by To Abu Shuja\'ah , July 09, 2009
Your Mo made slaves "whatever ur right hand possess'. Your Mo actually degraded the condition of women. Even in ur islamic paradise of saudi arabia a 75 aged widow is punished with lashes just for asking some kids to bring her some food.
Polygamy is legal in muslims.
Women are considered half the worth.
Burga is forced which result in women lacking Vitamin D, and there body stinks like hell with sweat.
Women are stoned.
Still legally your muslim brothers marry girls of 9 -15 years girls.
The list is many.
The pre-islamic arabia was not as great as others like persia, byzantine or indian civilization but was much better than Islamic civilization.
Why your Mo had to kill so many peoples expecially lady poets etc?
With terror Hitler was able to force whole of germany as his follower and if all humanity has not acted together and defeated him then you are your coming generation will have to praise hitler as the 'Truthful One'.
Also Mao killed some 30,000 intellectuals like muhammed did and see approx 1.3 billion popluation of china almost same as muslim population worship him.
The perosns like taslima, wafa sultan, ayan hirsi ali etc have seen the evil islam and have put there life for the TRUTH.
Your talking is like neo-nazis they can also argue gibberish like you.
written by geoff dickson , July 09, 2009
My friend, you need to do much more study.
I don't think you understood my arguments!
You tell God by his nature, not by his name.
Allah wants muslims to hate and kill non muslims, whereas Jesus asked everyone to love one another.
In fact, the Isa you believe in is NOT the Jesus of the Bible. Please do the proper research.
Isa in arabic translates as Esau in Hebrew. Esau was the hated brother of Jacob. Jesus name was Jeshuwa.
NOT the same name!
Jesus is NOT a prophet, but was the FULFILLMENT of prophecy starting with Psalm 22. You need a proper study of prophecy to understand this, and PLEASE dont read books printed in Saudi Arabia as these are full of LIES.
My study of Biblical prophecy is based on mathematics and statistical probabilities. If you understand maths, you will be amazed at the findings. But I think I waste my time here with you.
re Padre Pio.
There are many NON BELIEVERS who have been helped by him. In his own words, he wants to save EVERYONE because we are all God's children (even muslims).
Try reading "Padre Pio: The True Story" by C. Bernard Ruffin
written by FormerMuslimah , July 09, 2009
Request to the educated muslimahs, Better you leave and marry non-muslims as there is nothing but abuse and slavement in Islam. In muslim society if your husband does sex with your daughter you cant do anything. Its a big common problem.
By fellow muslim women please do mass boycott of muslim boys. Better to remain unmarried then marry a muslim.
written by Hisham , July 09, 2009
written by Ali , July 09, 2009
written by psychologist , July 09, 2009
Even criminals have there own reason. Many rapists ask the victim for sex with consent and as they reject he thinks it's his right to rape her.
Thus if you see the logic from a criminal or a rapist point of view then Muhammed's dead will seem to be ok.
Infact in western and especially US, Islam finds favour among the criminals or vagabounds. They have there own point of view where they want to enjoy a lot of money and sex without working hard for it.
Islam needs either subjugated minorities or they will atack other nations. That's why muslims attack non-muslims even though they dont have any personal enmity with those.
written by Abu Shuja\'ah , July 09, 2009
Show me among the earlier great civilizations of persia, byzantine , indian where was slave trade or women subjugation.
Your Mo made slaves "whatever ur right hand possess'. Your Mo actually degraded the condition of women. Even in ur islamic paradise of saudi arabia a 75 aged widow is punished with lashes just for asking some kids to bring her some food.
Polygamy is legal in muslims.
Women are considered half the worth.
Burga is forced which result in women lacking Vitamin D, and there body stinks like hell with sweat.
Women are stoned.
Still legally your muslim brothers marry girls of 9 -15 years girls.
The list is many.
Whatever your righthand posses, where does that refer to slaves? Prove me wrong or stop lying please. It's taken as masturbation, read some fatwas on it.
Saudi Arabia is pracisting a new form of Islam, look it up.
Polygamy is legal in NT and OT.
Women are considered slaves in OT and NT. Jesus even called non-Jews dogs, so if you rather be called that, WHATS UP FEMALE DOG?(You chose it, not me)
Women are raped in OT which Jesus commands NT followers to follow. Women are fingered by there dads in OT and NT, do you rather that?
written by Abu Shuja\'ah , July 09, 2009
Abu Shuja'ah,
My friend, you need to do much more study.
I don't think you understood my arguments!
You didn't mines either.
You tell God by his nature, not by his name.
Allah wants muslims to hate and kill non muslims, whereas Jesus asked everyone to love one another.
Jesus is the Holy Spirit no? Well he revealed a little known book called the OT, where he ordered genocide, rape and robbery. He even says in NT to follow OT,, even Paul says that..
In fact, the Isa you believe in is NOT the Jesus of the Bible. Please do the proper research.
Isa in arabic translates as Esau in Hebrew. Esau was the hated brother of Jacob. Jesus name was Jeshuwa.
NOT the same name!
Not ESAU either, fail!
Yep, I agree not Jesus of the Bible, the Bible is lost Jeremiah 8:8.
Jesus is NOT a prophet, but was the FULFILLMENT of prophecy starting with Psalm 22. You need a proper study of prophecy to understand this, and PLEASE dont read books printed in Saudi Arabia as these are full of LIES.
I read the Bible daily. Jesus was a pagann God, invented 400 years after his time on this earth. He has many failed prophecies
http://www.evilbible.com/jesus_false.htm
My study of Biblical prophecy is based on mathematics and statistical probabilities. If you understand maths, you will be amazed at the findings. But I think I waste my time here with you.
re Padre Pio.
There are many NON BELIEVERS who have been helped by him. In his own words, he wants to save EVERYONE because we are all God's children (even muslims).
Try reading "Padre Pio: The True Story" by C. Bernard Ruffin
Based on maths? That would be hard to believe since 1+1+1 will never be 1.
written by Abu Shuja\'ah , July 09, 2009
Islam sickens the mind so much that all rationality diminishes.
Request to the educated muslimahs, Better you leave and marry non-muslims as there is nothing but abuse and slavement in Islam. In muslim society if your husband does sex with your daughter you cant do anything. Its a big common problem.
By fellow muslim women please do mass boycott of muslim boys. Better to remain unmarried then marry a muslim.
Abuse and enslavement has nothing to do with Islam. If a man chooses to do something, bad choice of husband on your part.
I'm a Muslim boy and I face domestic abuse by a alcoholic father, guess you're wrong.
written by Abu Shuja\'ah , July 09, 2009
To start with the ridiculous mumbo jumbo book of violence and ignorance quran was authored by Mohammed, not God, to justify his robberies(8.1,41)
Spoils of war are not robberies unless everyone's forefathers are thieves.
,killings (9.5)
Refer to Quran Chapter 2 verses 190-194, the speak of the laws of fighting,we inly fight if oppressed.
and sex (with captured women, cousins, and any woman who offered herself to him and unlimited wives (33.50)).
Tell me if this si possible, a man fasts for days at a time, fights in war, travels far and wide, spends nights in prayer. What time does he have to sleep with SO MANY WOMEN? Use your logic and note hate please.
Secondly that book he authored was changed any ways later many times as proved by the Sana quran deciphered by Prof.
Either you're ignorant or lying, Sana Quran confirms Quran.
http://answering-christianity.com/karim/mosque_of_sanaa.htm
It appears either you are ignorant or lying when you say in islam it is haram to have sex with a girl before puberty. Go read aya 65.4 which says you can divorce your wife before her menstruation. Tell me why a muslim marries a baby , if not for sex?
Yep, you are ignorant, this ayah deals with divorce and before her menstruation means exactly that. It has nothing to do with puberty. This verse and the series after it discusses divorce.
A Woman has to wait 3 months before re-marrying, however the man can do so, the reason why women have to wait for menstruatio etc... is because of pregancy, if the woman remarries before 3 months (at that time no prganacy tests) and she has sex with that man, the identity of the father would be confused.
Besides all conditions of Arabia before islam you are describing is based on islamic sources which lie through their teeth same way you are lying by saying that your prophet ,who was the most evil man who ever lived, was the best man who ever lived. Give me a break man. No muslim was killed in Mecca although Mohammed badmouthed their religion and ancesters every day, anothermuslim lie.
Sumaya(ra) and her son(ra) (may Allah have Mercy on them) were killed. Muslims were run from houses. Bilal (ra) was tortured in public and told to refute Islam, the list goes on, all acknowledged publicly by Quraysh and retold by many.
written by Abu Shuja\'ah , July 09, 2009
I am sick and tired of the ridiculous stupid and no brainer excuse the islamic apologists give to justify their prophet's criminal activities and highway robberes. You are repeating the same mantra.They say Meccan caravans were taking the household goods of the muslims to Syria to sell, and the Prophet's gang attackedcaravans to retrieve their stolen goods.
This is a historical fact, Muhammad(saw) and the Muslims left Makkah with almost nothing, in order to gain profits, the caravans ordered by the Quraysh took the Muslims good and went to sell it. There is no reason for attacking one caravan of the Quraysh when there were hundreds.
Wow only a blind faih zombie can come up with that one. To start with Meccans were pagans who had no problems with any one praying to any God. People going to Kaaba prayed to different Gods. They never persecuted Christians , jews, hanifs or sabeans etc so why will they kill muslims. Sure they objected to Mohammed for badmouthing their Gods and religion to the pilgrims, discouraging their pilgrimage thus screwing their livlihood which was thru pagan pilgrimage to Kaaba. Besides they never forced common muslims to leave,they only threatened Mohammaed. Iit was Mohammed who forced them through quranic threatening aya. Besides if Mohammed had to attack caravans and raid pagan communities all over Arabia
Wrong, Islam was bad for their business, which the foundations were sex, idols, polytheism(orgies), all of which Muhammad (saw) preached against, preaching in front of their Kabah, denting the Quraysh's profits by turning them away from their product of false Gods and false promises.
for ten years, killing them, robbing them, kidnapping and raping their women just because some Meccans sold r goods of few muslims once then Mohammed must be the most evil minded sick man .
They killed his Ummah and starved their people in revenge for many years.
Robbing cannot be taking back what is yours ;-) If you steal my home, I have a right to reclaim it. Get over your hate, ignorance and pride.
Muslims never raped and kidnapped women, care to prove this lie?
written by duh_swami , July 09, 2009
I'm glad someone has it all figured out, I can't get past Quran 8:39...8:12...8:60...5:33 is one of my favorites, and those nines 9:5...9:29...9:111...4:34 is a winner...There are lots more...Then hadith...I love a hadith...Ad-dajjal is mentioned almost 200 times in Ahadith...Mohammad prayed to Allah to relieve him of the afflictions of Ad-dajjal. If the perfect man and role model prayed to Allah about Dajjal, do modern Muslims pray also to Allah to protect them from Ad-dajjal? If not, why not?
written by The Infidel , July 09, 2009
The Quran says that the Itah had no son. And that Jesus did not die on the cross, because an Apostle died in his place.
"Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also." (I John 2:22-23)
The two Itahs cannot be the same.
If Allah is a deceiver, as the Quran states, he cannot be the Itah since only the Shatain is a deceiver.
Even though I happen to be a Christian, I find much to be annoyed with some Christians' arguments. The Shatain can appear to be anything or anyone that he wants to be. I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in Padre Pio anymore than I trust Muslim apologists and their dhimi cousins.
Christianity warns about deception in the "last days".
There's as much deception in modern Christianity
as there is in Islam. There's plenty of tagiyya to go around IMO.
You don't need to study prophecy to figure out who is the real Itah and why Islam is the religion of the Shatain.
BTW, some of the best articles on Islam come from the atheist side of the house. No pun intended, but I read thiese articles religiously.
written by geoff dickson , July 09, 2009
You don't seem to understand what I have said, so let me summarize Islam for you.
1. Every muslim must follow Mohammed's eaxmple
“Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.” [Sura 33.21]
2. The first duty is to Jihad
Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 594: Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet was asked, "Which is the best deed?" He said, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle." He was then asked, "Which is the next (in goodness)?" He said, "To participate in Jihad in Allah's Cause."
3. Mohammed said that terror brings victory
Al-Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220:
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).
And this is supported by the Quran.
“Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." [Sura 8.12]
4. Allah will punish you if you don't fight
“Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things.” [Sura 9.39]
5. If a muslim leaves Islam, kill him
“They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.” [Sura 4.89]
6. If a muslim does not follow the true path, kill him
Whoever creates disunity in the Islamic community kill him…(Sunaan Abu Dawud, 3.40.4744)
Another hadis (Sunaan Abu Dawud, 40.4747) asks to murder those Muslims who are insincere in their faith.
And guess what?
Since 1970 muslims have killed over 5 million of their own.
http://theseoultimes.com/ST/?url=/ST/db/read.php?idx=8574
Tell me again, how can you follow such a murdering, raping, Jew hating, women degrading, white supremist, slave trading paedophile prophet?
written by SearcherOfTrueIslam , July 09, 2009
In what manner saudi Arabia is following a new Islam? Why other muslim nations allow this and not boycott Saudi?
Why muslims resort to violence and death fatwa, instead of debating and pointing out the clarifications to Islam truth sayers like ibn warraq, taslima nasrin, anwar sheikh etc?
Why cant Mo debate and refute with critics like asma bin marwan and had to send a assain to kill?
Why whole tribe of jews were assisinated including male chidren just reaching puberty?
Why muslims tell bad thing about peaceful worshippers of arab while nowhere in history its being mentioned that they have created any trouble?
Why Mo choosed the moon god allah only?
Why no quran signed by Mo was available now?
Why Mo has to insert the sura of abrogation? (oops allah changes mind)....
Why Mo forced his son's wife to divorce so that he can have sex with her? (If he wanted he could have mnarried her before why on first case allowedhe to get marry his son)
Why Mo's many son's and daughter died? (Opps allah forgot to show mercy on his children)
Why Mo did sex with the christian maid of her wife, who he send her to meet his father so that he can satisfy his erection? (Mo naughty
) Why there is no sura how Mo's successor will form, which resulted in the elimination of his family and killing of 4 earlier caliphs? (Mo died unplanned in sexual act with aisha, hmm 60 plus old with 16 year daughter aged girl)
written by john , July 09, 2009
I've come to the conclusion that human beings are able to convince themselves of absolutely anything. It's not actually a weakness, in my opinion... Religion brings order and a common sense of identity to society. I'm sure that the inclination to religion has acted as a stabalizing force to all societies.
Still... what we think we know can be astoundly irrational to an outsider.
One writer above says something to the effect of "Jesus was a molester, and I can prove it".
Heh.. you can't even prove Jesus was a historical person, but I understand you are convinced otherwise, and that's fine. Perhaps if you can't wonder at your own limitations, you can agree with me that everyone else (other religions) can seemingly convince themselves of anything.
Which is no mystery... we can blame it on the other god of Islam...Shaitan.
(A god is a being with magical authority over some aspect of human life...Shaitan is the Muslim god of evil) I imagine that should just about alienate everyone... heh heh...
I'm just talking about the way anthropology categorizes religious thought. Christianity is surely polytheistic... as is Hinduism... even though enthusiasts of both religions would dislike such a title, simply because at some level, the many gods are thought to eventually resolve into one magical unity.
Islam may bristle at idol worshippers, but can easily bow to Mecca and consider material objects such as the Kaaba to be holy. By any objective measure, the objects of the haj are worshipped.
Yes, I understand you will think me ignorant for that pronouncement... after all, these things that are revered by Muslims are only symbols...
... which is precisely what many Hindus say about their idols... and what Christians say about the cross... and certainly they are as correct as you might be.
So we want to argue as to whether Mohammed was a good person or not. I can tell you he was a good person to Muslims, and an evil person to anyone else.
Religions solidify societies to the ostensible purpose of competing with other societies. Prophets and demigods support their societies, and provide rationalizations for war. That is the effect of Mohammed and Jesus on the societies they preside over... whatever purpose they may have envisioned for themselves.
Gentlemen, I know of no truth that is not also a lie. Everything is a matter of context. Absolutes only exist in the human mind.
Let our gods compete against each other without our assistance. The world is becomming too small. Should Jesus feel that South America should be conquered so that the heathens there will be saved... let him do the killing.
Should Allah feel that infidels must die... I'm sure he is capable of doing the job himself. Don't be impatient with him, he is after all, a god.
Our societies are in close proximity to each other. No nation is more than a couple days journey, counting holdovers and flight delays.
We are no longer fighting with sharp sticks and iron axes. We have the capacity to kill ourselves off. Our gods are not responsible. They are only our rationalizations. The evil of humankind is in humankind... we should not blame our gods, even if they provide perfectly good reasons for war.
Okay... you folks go back to the battle. I'm just expressing my fallible ideas to no good end, I'm sure, just as you are.
I appreciate the hospitality of this website, and hope you all will continue to allow me to express myself here.
written by This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it , July 10, 2009
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 512:
Narrated Anas:
The Prophet had their men killed, their offspring and woman taken as captives. Safiya was amongst the captives, She first came in the share of Dahya Alkali but later on she belonged to the Prophet
Bukhari Volume 3, Book 46, Number 717:
Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet got Juwairiya on that day.
Bukhari,Volume 3, Book 46, Number 716:
Narrated Marwan and Al-Miswar bin Makhrama:
The delegates of the tribe of Hawazin came to the Prophet and they requested him to return their properties and captives.
Volume 3, Book 46, Number 718:
Narrated Ibn Muhairiz:
I saw Abu Said and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu Said said, "We went with Allah's Apostle, in the Ghazwa of Barli Al-Mustaliq and we captured some of the 'Arab women as captives, and the long separation from our wives was pressing us hard and we wanted to practice coitus interruptus. We asked Allah's Apostle (whether it was permissible). He said, "It is better for you not to do so. No soul, (that which Allah has) destined to exist, up to the Day of Resurrection, but will definitely come, into existence."
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 447:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
Saad said "Kill their (men) warriors and take their offspring as captives, "On that the Prophet said, "You have judged according to Allah's Judgment," or said, "according to
Allah’s judgement
Bukhari , Volume 5, Book 59, Number 362:
Narrated Ibn Umar:
Prophet then killed their men and distributed their women, children and property among the Muslims, but some of them who came to the Prophet, and embraced Islam, he gave them safety.
Remember the above are accounts of pious believers which probably are already sanitized. The truth probably was much worse. Muslims probably destroyed all written accounts written by non muslims.
Mohammed raided, robbed, killed and raped. It is in hadiths and all siras.He was the most evil man who ever lived. People has been using his life example and quran to kill rob and rape for the last 1400 years.Aya 9.111 is responsible for 7/7, Beslan, Madrid ,9/11, Bombay massacre and all modern day suicide bombing by quran toting muslims.
written by Hisham , July 10, 2009
-Dont quote ayas from Baqra, the early Madina sura which allowed defensive war. Aya 9.5 from th final sura Tauba abrogates 124 compromising Meccan and early Madinar ayas(Ref: Suyuti, Tabari,Ibn Khatir)
Aya 33.50 said and many hadiths confirmed that Mohammed f--ked all his wives daily and any woman who offererd herself to himt:
Bukhari: Volume 1, Book 5, Number 268:
"The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number. Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men)."
Bukhari,Volume 7, Book 62, Number 24:
A woman came to Allah's Apostle and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I have come to give you myself
Bukhari,Volume 7, Book 62, Number 48:
Narrated Hisham's father:
Khaula bint Hakim was one of those ladies who presented themselves to the Prophet. 'Aisha said, "Doesn't a lady feel ashamed for presenting herself to a man?"
Bukhari,Volume 7, Book 62, Number 53:
Narrated Thabit Al-Banani:
"A woman came to Allah's Apostle and presented herself to him, saying.
he even screwed his first cousin and daughter in law Zainab as Allah confirms it:
Q 33:37 We gave her (Zaid’s wife) unto thee in marriage, so that (henceforth) there may be no sin for believers in respect of wives of their adopted sons.
He also regularly banged his 20% share of captured women and then gave them away to his friends and relatives:
The History of Tabari, vol 8, pge 29-30
From his share of captive women, prophet gave his son-in-law, Ali a slave girl, Raytah bt Hilal to enjoy her at his will. He also presented Uthman b. Affan, his son-in-law, another slave girl Zainab b. Hayan, and bestowed another girl (name unknown) to his father in-law Omar Ibn Khattab. Omar gave that girl to his son Abdullah. Most of Prophet's other elite companions received slave girls as gifts..
He also regularly banged his wives maids like Maria Quptia , maid of Habsa, which is mentioned in surah Tehrim and who gave birth to his bastard son Ibrahim.
Yes Mohammed was a busy man, but busy in robbing killing raping and banging and fondling:
Bukhar, iVolume 1, Book 6, Number 300:
Narrated Maimuna:
When ever Allah's Apostle wanted to fondle any of his wives during the periods (menses), he used to ask her to wear an Izar. :
He came home and banged his wives and their maids. he fasted and banged
You lied again about aya 65.4. Here is a translation of Dr Hilal and Dr Mohsin Khan:
65.4 ; And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise.
Here is Ibn Khatir, the most trusted tafsir of Quran:
"Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. [see 2:228] The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying;
[??????????? ???? ????????]
(Ibn Shujah you should be ashamed of your ignorance of quran or lying about it)
Islam is like the naked king whose ugly genitals are seen by all except muslims like you who close the eyes or look the otherway and insist that he is not naked or are looking at his genitals and yet lying that he is wearing beautiful clothes.
written by Khalaf , July 10, 2009
written by Mo , July 10, 2009
Mohammed wrote in quran:
93.8 Allah found you poor, he made you rich .
33.27 He gave you their land, and their dwellings
33.50
Summary) Mohammed you can f---k any woman you want. He used quran to proceed to rob the peaceful communities of Arabia and capture their women
Bukhari , Volume 5, Book 59, Number 362:
Narrated Ibn Umar:
Prophet then killed their men and distributed their women, children and property among the Muslims
MuslimBook 019, Number 4292:
. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) made a raid upon Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed their men and captured their women. On that very day, he captured Juwairiya bint al-Harith
Tabari VIII:116
Ishaq:511 "So Muhammad began seizing their herds and their property bit by bit. He conquered home by home. The Messenger took its people captive, including Safiyah and her two cousins. The Prophet chose Safiyah for himself."
Ishaq:592 "The Apostle held a large number of captives. There were 6,000 women and children prisoners. He had captured so many sheep and camels they could not be counted."
Tabari IX:31
Ishaq:594 "‘Muhammad, divide the spoil and booty of camels and cattle among us.' They forced the Prophet up against a tree, and his robe was torn from him. Muhammad cried, ‘Give me back my robe. If there had been more sheep I would have given you some. You have not found me to be niggardly, cowardly or false."
Ishaq:324 "Allah taught them how to divide the spoil. He made it lawful and said, ‘A fifth of the booty belongs to the Apostle.'
Ishaq:465 ". Allah's Messenger took his fifth of the booty.
Tabari VIII:39 "Then the Messenger of Allah sent Sa'd bin Zayd with some of the Qurayza captives to Najd, and in exchange for them he purchased horses and arms."
written by Sunny , July 10, 2009
http://www.truthtube.tv/play.php?vid=2025
written by Khalid , July 10, 2009
-Tell me what is the punishment for a muslim man who raped a non-muslim lady as per sharia?
That person will be stoned to death if married and lashed 100 times if single provided four male witnesses watched him rape her.
-Why cant Mo debate and refute with critics like asma bin marwan and had to send a assasin to kill?
She was commiting treason by spreading lies about Prophet. punishment of treason is death everywhere.
-Why whole tribe of jews were assisinated including male chidren just reaching puberty? They had endangered the lives of muslims and had commited treason.
Why muslims tell bad thing about peaceful worshippers of arab while nowhere in history its being mentioned that they have created any trouble?
They were trying to kill prophet.
-Why no quran signed by Mo was available now?
Quran was compiled many years after his death.
-Why Mo has to insert the sura of abrogation? (oops allah changes mind)...
Some ayas were added by later by corrupt muslims of Ummaya like Hajjaj Bin Yousuf
Why Mo forced his son's wife to divorce so that he can have sex with her? (If he wanted he could have mnarried her before why on first case allowedhe to get marry his son)
Their marriage was breaking and since prophet had them married he felt it was his responsibility to support her.
Why Mo's many son's and daughter died? (Opps allah forgot to show mercy on his children)
Most people died at young age those dayus.
Why Mo did sex with the christian maid of her wife, who he send her to meet his father so that he can satisfy his erection? (Mo naughty
) Islam requires slaves to be treated like equals. Muslims can have sex with them in lieu of supporting them with their income but must treat them honorably.
Why there is no sura how Mo's successor will form, which resulted in the elimination of his family and killing of 4 earlier caliphs? (Mo died unplanned in sexual act with aisha, hmm 60 plus old with 16 year daughter aged girl)
Prophet had indirectly nominated Abu Bakr as successor by asking him to lead his last prayer while he prayed behind him. That is the indication from Allah (SWT)
Ayesha was Prophet's favourite wife and they loved each other very much . He was exclusively intimate with her with the permision of other wives in his last days.It was no surprise that he died in her bed and in her arms.
written by Hussain , July 10, 2009
You demonstrated your points clearly and precisely. Your arguments are well presented but I do not think you should waste your time with those pagans, cow worshipers and idolaters. This site is made available to those people who want to share their hate for Islam and get their frustration out. They want to accuse Prophet Muhammad may peace and blessing be on him of things they do best. Robberies, rape and molestation flourishes in the non Muslim world.
I wonder if you are only 17 years old and you were able to put their noses in the sand like this, what an Islamic scholar would do to Mr. MA Kan and his cronies. This is another reason those rats like Khan and Ali Sina prefer to work behind websites.
Thanks my brother again for your work.
written by lw1 , July 15, 2009
If what you say is true,then why did Muslims attack Afghanistan (then a Budhist/Hindu country) and India (which then included Pakistan and Bangladesh)? You were not oppresses there.
written by lw1 , July 16, 2009
What would happen if only four female witnesses watched him rape her?
written by traeh , July 18, 2009
written by Bryan , May 07, 2011
May Allah Bless.
PS: M.A Khan, Please stop making yourself look like a fool. This guy, has made all of you look like idiots. Your book is ridiculous, you provide no evidence, reading this article only made me certain of your pathetic writing style. You write from a completely biased perspective, providing no certain proofs or verses from any legitimate sources. Abu Shuj'ah provided sources from NON MUSLIM documents and scriptures to prove his point, and you just rambled on providing your idiotic and completely biased opinion. I don't know if someone raped you, or if you raped some guy; but whatever it is, just pray and ask for forgiveness. I am sure, Allah will forgive you. He is the most merciful, stated from all three texts, and he is the most kind. It's not too late, just let your pride and stubbornness go; and ask for forgiveness.
I admire your passion for reading scripture, but sadly see you have not understood prophecy.
Also you make a fundamental error in believing God of the Bible is the same as Allah of the Quran.
It can be proven that Allah is in fact the same as Satan in the Bible.
You quote Isaiah, but do you understand these:-
Isaiah 14:12 calls Satan "Hilal ben Sahar"
Now Hilal = crescent moon and Sahar = morning star.
The flag of Islam is crescent moon and morning star.
Ezekiel 38 declares the armies of Satan to be Turkey, Syria, Iran, Pakistan, Egypt, Libya etc. - all Islamic countries
Revelation 20 describes Satan's army using beheading as a ritual. Sura 47:4 and Sura 8:12 etc.
Isaiah 46 quotes God as predicting future events, and the Bible has milestone prophecies.
Hosea predicts the fall of Israel and Samaria that happened in 725BC, Isaiah and Jeremiah predict the Babylonian invasion and captivity. Daniel 12 predicts the building of the Dome of the Rock in 688AD and calls it an Abomination that Desolates.
Daniel 9 predicts the very day that Jesus would ride into Jerusalem on a donkey (10th Nisan).
The Dead Sea Scrolls contain a fragment called 11Qmelsch which identifies Jesus as the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 61 and also the one who would be killed after Daniel 9:26. That is AMAZING.
Abu Shuja’a, you quote:
"Muhammad(saw), the greatest man to ever grace this earth "
Let us just analyse this.
Jesus was a virgin birth, Mohammed wasn't.
Jesus taught that the meek will inherit the earth, Mohammed taught that terror made him successful.
Jesus restored sight to the blind, Mohammed gauged out eyes to make men blind.
Jesus made the lame walk, Mohammed cut off feet to make men lame.
Jesus taught that in Heaven people will be like angels and not marry, Mohammed promised 72 virgins and sex. (Jesus warned that only FALSE prophets promise sex).
Do you still think Mohammed was the greatest?
In fact Jesus warned people about not understanding revealed scripture.
"The coming of the lawless one is apparent in the working of Satan, who uses all power, signs, lying wonders, and every kind of deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
For this reason, God sends them a powerful delusion, leading them to believe what is false".
[2 Thessalonians 2:9-11]
ISLAM is the Powerful Delusion designed to lead astray, and you Abu are being led astray!!!!
Mohammed encouraged his followers to bear false witness to kill an enemy, and Mohammed actually broke the TEN Commandments of Moses.
But Jesus also in his wisdom left visible signs to mankind. Over 300 people have been gifted with the crucifixion wounds of Jesus, starting with St Francis of Asisisi (1224-1226) and lastly, most famously with Padre Pio from 1918-1968.
Padre Pio from San Giovanni Rotondo bore the 2 feet wounds, the two hand wounds and the spear wound in his side for 50 years,
Not only that Jesus gifted this man with many charisms.
1. he could make himself invisible
2. he could bi-locate (be physically in 2 places at once)
3. he performed miraculous healings
4. he predicted the future, even the exact day he would die
5. he had the gift of perfume which would denote his presence when not visible
There are many people alive today who can testify to this. There are many books and videos on his life.
Abu, God has sent visible signs to mankind to remind people of the crucifixion and its importance to God.
Ignore this at your peril.