Islamic slavery has been the most horrible yet the little known slavery in history. So, author M. A. Khan decided to publish the chapter "Islamic Slavery" from his book, "Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism and Slavery". This part discusses Slavery in the Ancient World. While the Christian Europe and now Islamic civilizations are being condemned for slavery, the practice was common in all ancient civilizations, which warrants a brief discussion here. (Part 1; Part 3)
SLAVERY IN THE ANCIENT WORLD
Slavery was not an Islamic invention, nor did Islam have a monopoly in it. Likely originated in the age of savagery, slavery had been a prominent feature of all major civilizations throughout recorded history. Slavery existed in Babylonia and Mesopotamia, and was prevalent in ancient Egypt, Greece and Rome before the advent of Christianity. Slavery is approved in Christian scriptures and was practiced in the medieval Christendom.
Ancient Egypt. In ancient Egypt, slaves provided the labor-force in the construction of Pyramids. According to famous Greek traveler Herodotus (484–425 BCE), some 100,000 slaves worked for twenty years in the construction of the Great Pyramid at Giza, one of the seven wonders of the ancient world, built by Cheops, a Pharaoh of Egypt’s Old Kingdom (r. 2589–2566 BCE).[1] Recorded from legendary accounts, this figure was obviously an exaggeration. It, nonetheless, informs us that slaves were used in large numbers in such ventures in those times. Pharaohs in Egypt used to capture slaves in wars or purchase them from foreign lands. They were the property of the state, not of private citizens, but were often presented as gifts to generals and priests.
Ancient Greece. In the ancient city states of Greece, namely Athens and Sparta, slavery was integrated into the socio-economic and political system. Alongside the free citizens and foreigners, there were the helots: the slave class, working as serfs in agricultural and other menial activities. This, assume many scholars, allowed the elites and free citizens to engage themselves in intellectual pursuits among other activities, likely contributing to the stunning intellectual, political, scientific and literary achievements of classical Greece. The bulk of the Greek peasants did not own lands and had to give away a large proportion of their crop to landlords. As a result, they fell into debt and ultimately offered themselves as slaves, forming the helot class. At one point, Athens is said to have had a staggering 460,000 slaves against only 2,100 free citizens. Slaves were treated mildly in Athens compared to those in Sparta. Later, the constitution of Draco (621 BCE) and the laws of Solon (638–558 BCE) made them property of the state, which improved their condition. The decree of Solon also banned enslavement because of debts. The slaves now possessed some basic rights and could not be put to death except by the state.
Roman Empire. In the ancient Roman Republic and early Roman Empire, about 15–20 percent of the population were slaves.[2] During Emperor Augustus Caesar (r. 63 BCE–14 CE), one master, it is said, left behind 4,000 slaves.[3] Until the second century BCE, masters could legally kill a slave although occurred rarely. The Cornelian Law (82 BCE) forbade masters from killing a slave. The Petronian Law (32 BCE) forbade masters from forcing slaves into warfare. Under Emperor Claudius (r. 41–54 CE), if a master neglected the health of his slaves resulting in death, he was guilty of murder. Dio Chrysostom—a famous orator, writer, philosopher, and historian—had devoted two Discourses (14 and 15) delivered at the Forum condemning slavery during Emperor Trajan (r. 98–117 CE). De Clementia (1:18), authored by Seneca the Elder (c. 54 BCE–39 CE), records that masters—cruel to slaves—were publicly insulted. Later on, Emperor Hadrian (r. 117–138 CE) renewed the Cornelian and Petronian laws. Ulpian, a Stoic lawyer under Emperor Caracalla (r. 211–217 CE), made it illegal for parents to sell their children into slavery. Diocletian (r. 284–305 CE), the last notable Pagan Emperor of Rome, made it illegal for a creditor to enslave a debtor and for a man to sell himself into slavery for paying up a debt. Constantine the Great (r. 306–337 CE) prohibited the separation of family members during the distribution of slaves. Evidently, the condition of slaves was slowly improving in the pre-Christian Roman Empire.
Ancient China. In ancient China, rich families owned slaves for doing menial works in the fields and at home. The Emperor usually owned slaves in hundreds and even in thousands. Most of the slaves were born to slave-mothers. Some became slaves for failing to pay up debts; others were captured in raids and wars.
Ancient India. There are few mentions of slavery in ancient India, another great civilization since early antiquity. Megasthenes (c. 350–290 BCE), the famous Greek traveler, who was familiar with slavery in Greece and other countries he had visited, failed to notice the existence of slavery in India. He wrote, ‘‘All Indians are free. None of them is a slave… They even do not reduce foreigners to slavery. There is thus no question of their reducing their own countrymen to slavery.’’[4] Similarly, Muslim chroniclers, who left abundant records of large-scale Islamic slavery in India, never mention any incidence of slavery in the pre-Islamic Hindu society. However, slavery did exist in ancient India, because references of slaves are found in Rigveda (ancient Hindu scripture) and other philosophical and religious literature, including in the teachings of Buddha.
Buddha (c. 563–483 BCE) enjoined his followers to assign only the amount of work to slaves that they could easily do. He also advised masters to attend to slaves when they fell ill. Kautaliya (aka Chanakya), a teacher of the Taxila University whose protégé Chandragupta Maurya founded the great Maurya dynasty (c. 320–100 BCE), had prohibited masters from punishing slaves without reasons; the defaulters were to be punished by the state. Emperor Ashoka (r. 273–232 BCE) of the Maurya dynasty, in his Rock Edict IX, advised masters to treat their slaves with sympathy and consideration. Ancient Hindu scripture Rigveda mentions of slaves being given as presents and rulers giving female slaves as gifts. Slaves in India served as domestic servants in the palaces of rulers and in the establishments of aristocrats and priests. It is likely that those, who failed to pay up debts, were reduced to slavery in India.[5]
It, however, appears that the practice of slavery in ancient India was much lower and that slaves received more humane treatment compared to those in contemporary Egypt, Greece, China and Rome. In India, slaves were never considered a commodity for trading; there was no slave-market. Slave-trade was never a feature of India’s economic system until Muslims brought the practice to India.
Slavery in Christianity. It is clear from the discussion above that the Christian world was not a stranger to the practice of slavery. Instead, slavery in the Christian world, particularly by European Christians, has been most thoroughly studied and condemned. However, unlike the Quran, the New Testament does not call for enslavement of innocent people through aggressive war; it does not condemn slavery either. Instead, Jesus [Mat 18:25, Mark 14:66, Mat 18:25] and Saint Paul [Eph 6:5–9, Cor 12:13, Gal 3:28 and Col 3:11 etc.] talk acceptingly of slavery as it existed in those days.
In line with the scriptural acceptance as it existed as social practice, slavery was practised, it even flourished at different points in time, in the Christian world. We have noted above that slavery was gradually declining in the pre-Christian Roman Empire; their conditions were improving. When Christians rose to imperial power in Rome after Emperor Constantine’s conversion in the fourth century, the trend reversed somewhat. For example, pro-Christian Emperor Flavius Gratianus (r. 375–383) enacted an edict that a slave, who would accuse his master of a crime, should be burned alive. In 694, the Spanish monarchy, in collaboration with the church, ordered the Jews to choose baptism or slavery. The church Fathers and Popes justified slavery in the medieval Christendom on religious grounds. They continued supporting the slave-trade even in the face of rising opposition against the institution in Europe. ‘The Churches, as everyone knows, opposed the abolition of slavery as long as they dared,’ writes Bertrand Russell.[6]
Discussed in next part: Extensive Enslavement by Muslims
[1]. Ibid, p. 2
[2]. Slavery, Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery
[3]. Lal (1994), p. 3
[4]. Ibid, p. 5
[5]. Ibid, p. 4
[6]. Russell B (1957) Why I Am Not a Christian, Simon & Schuster, New York, p. 26
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written by Machmoed , September 07, 2011
Because slavery was common in those days, God/Allah didn't condemn it or forbid it and accepted slavery as a common thing. If you fight hard and kill some, he might give you righthandpossesions on his behalf. If God/Allah was about to send a new prophet/messenger with a (more) intelligent medium/scripture now, i'm sure slavery would be out of date. From time to time God/Allah needs a revision/haircut in order to survive.
written by Mozlem , September 07, 2011
The new prophet may use atom bomb , hydrogen bomb and mustrad gas. He will be more dangerous I think!
written by fineliving56 , September 07, 2011
But we do not know the gender of Allah yet, and if IT turned out to be a woman then she needs hair styling not just a haircut.
Alla't cannot be walking around with Medusa hair …can't
she…..:-)
Alla't cannot be walking around with Medusa hair …can't
she…..:-)
written by Machmoed , September 07, 2011
I think Allah is bold, but we must give him newer clothes. Brushing teeth and take a shower would be of this era. No tayammum anymore with sand/mud or stones.
written by Mozlem , September 07, 2011
Allah is hermophrodite.
Does not need a companion to produce.
Male and female into one.
Does not need a companion to produce.
Male and female into one.
written by fineliving56 , September 07, 2011
Very informative Article of slavery in the past civilizations
what amazing to me is,that the Gods of all religions condoned slavery ….the Gods service humen needs ..all kinds ….even in the world of jinns ,Angels there is slavery
Apparently in Islam, the devil world, has family members and servants …there is the Jinns who some times are kuffirs and some times are Muslims ….:-)
No wonder we had Osama bin laden and company …they all most have been Muslim Jinns in body of Ugly Humans .
Quran, is full of this kind of garbage about Jinns …like in Surit al Jinn/ 13…Al hajjar /18….and many …many others .
what amazing to me is,that the Gods of all religions condoned slavery ….the Gods service humen needs ..all kinds ….even in the world of jinns ,Angels there is slavery
Apparently in Islam, the devil world, has family members and servants …there is the Jinns who some times are kuffirs and some times are Muslims ….:-)
No wonder we had Osama bin laden and company …they all most have been Muslim Jinns in body of Ugly Humans .
Quran, is full of this kind of garbage about Jinns …like in Surit al Jinn/ 13…Al hajjar /18….and many …many others .
written by Yibel , September 07, 2011
Among the many tales in circulation during the 7th century that Muhammad put in his
Quran are some pre-Islamic Arabian poems about the Israelite king Solomon, including the following:
"To Solomon We subjected the wind, travelling a month's journey morning and evening. We gave him a spring flowing with molten brass, and jinn who served him by leave of our Lord. Those of them who did not do Our bidding We shall chasten with the torment of the Fire. They made for him whatever he pleased: shrines and statues, basins as large as watering troughs, and built-in cauldrons." (Q.14:12)
According to the Quran, the jinn are made from smokeless fire (Q. 55:16). They were
created by Al-Rhmn, one of the ancient gods that Muhammad combined with Al-Ah to form his new creed, Islam. Assuming that there really are such beings (jinn) created from fire, then how can fire torment them? And why has no one, other than the desert Arabs, ever heard of or seen these magical jinn before? And where are they now? And who is this "We" that Muhammad is always talking about? Is it the 99 gods that Muhammad lumped together to create his own personal supreme deity? A deity who would give him anything his little heart desired!
Quran are some pre-Islamic Arabian poems about the Israelite king Solomon, including the following:
"To Solomon We subjected the wind, travelling a month's journey morning and evening. We gave him a spring flowing with molten brass, and jinn who served him by leave of our Lord. Those of them who did not do Our bidding We shall chasten with the torment of the Fire. They made for him whatever he pleased: shrines and statues, basins as large as watering troughs, and built-in cauldrons." (Q.14:12)
According to the Quran, the jinn are made from smokeless fire (Q. 55:16). They were
created by Al-Rhmn, one of the ancient gods that Muhammad combined with Al-Ah to form his new creed, Islam. Assuming that there really are such beings (jinn) created from fire, then how can fire torment them? And why has no one, other than the desert Arabs, ever heard of or seen these magical jinn before? And where are they now? And who is this "We" that Muhammad is always talking about? Is it the 99 gods that Muhammad lumped together to create his own personal supreme deity? A deity who would give him anything his little heart desired!
written by Reed Wilson , September 08, 2011
Before the Quranic revelation, slavery prevailed all over the world. In those days it seemed perfectly normal for people to have slaves whom they had captured in war or purchased in the markets. But the Quran proclaimed the equality of all men in the sight of God. It struck at the root of slavery by recognizing the moral worth of a human being as a human being. However there were at the time of the Quranic revelation numerous slaves that pre existed in that society as well as other parts of the world. The Quran in every conceivable way discouraged slavery and improved the lot of slaves. The Believers were urged to be kind and considerate to slaves, they were told that to emancipate a slave was a meritorious act. They could atone for some of their offences by setting a slave free. Thus the number of slaves was gradually reduced and the society was made less dependent on slave labor. The Arabic words "Maa malakat aimanukum" as occurred in the Quran which mean "Those whom your right hands possessed" are in the past tense and refer to those who had already been enslaved. When they were emancipated through a gradual process, slavery died a natural death.
(contd.)
(contd.)
written by Reed Wilson , September 08, 2011
Islam, not the distorted picture of Islam as promoted among the masses today by the pen of the historians and human conjecture) set in motion a gradual process of improvement in the status of those in bondage and culminating in the abolition of this institution. The process started with:
1."…ye…may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands posses….wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dower…"[4:25]
This conferred upon the slave girls all the rights and privileges of a wife. Verse 36 of Sura 4 brought another big change in the status of slaves by enforcing the obligation to do good to one’s parents and in the same breath, also to the slaves:
2."…do ‘Ihsan’ (goodness) to parents …and (to) what your right hands posses."[4:36]
verse 60 of Sura 9 exhorts Believers to give monetary help to those in bondage in order to alleviate their economic status:
3."Alms are for…those in Bondage.."[9:60]
Verses 2:177,4:29,5:89 etc make another quantum change in this matter by urging the believers to free those in the shackles of slavery:
4."…But it is righteousness…to spend of your substance out of love for Him…for the ransom of slaves.."[2:177]
5."And whoever kills a believer by mistake, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave.."[4:92]
6."He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation…give a slave his freedom.."[5:89]
Cntd.
1."…ye…may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands posses….wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dower…"[4:25]
This conferred upon the slave girls all the rights and privileges of a wife. Verse 36 of Sura 4 brought another big change in the status of slaves by enforcing the obligation to do good to one’s parents and in the same breath, also to the slaves:
2."…do ‘Ihsan’ (goodness) to parents …and (to) what your right hands posses."[4:36]
verse 60 of Sura 9 exhorts Believers to give monetary help to those in bondage in order to alleviate their economic status:
3."Alms are for…those in Bondage.."[9:60]
Verses 2:177,4:29,5:89 etc make another quantum change in this matter by urging the believers to free those in the shackles of slavery:
4."…But it is righteousness…to spend of your substance out of love for Him…for the ransom of slaves.."[2:177]
5."And whoever kills a believer by mistake, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave.."[4:92]
6."He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation…give a slave his freedom.."[5:89]
Cntd.
written by Machmoed , September 08, 2011
But the Quran proclaimed the equality of all men in the sight of God.
What about women? Slaves were not equal to muslims. Allah is non existent in these matters. It's about what the followers doing and they had slaves....even in his name. Allah is not important and you know it. Allah can't stop a murderer commiting his act.
What about women? Slaves were not equal to muslims. Allah is non existent in these matters. It's about what the followers doing and they had slaves....even in his name. Allah is not important and you know it. Allah can't stop a murderer commiting his act.
written by Reed Wilson , September 08, 2011
The basic and fundamental teaching of the Quran is that subservience is due to Allah alone and not to any human or group of humans. Obedience and sovereignty is only and only for Allah, says the Quran at numerous places. Qur'anic Islam does not accept Slavery.
The Qur'an unambiguously states that no man no matter how high a status he may occupy, be that status of a direct recipient of Divine messages even an apostle,no human being has the right to enslave any other human or group of humans, says the Qur’an:
"It is not meet for a mortal that Allah should give him the Book and the wisdom and 'Nabuwah' (apostlehood), then he should say to men: Be my slaves rather than Allah's; but rather (he would say): Be sustenance providers (Rabaniyoon) because of your teaching the Book and your studying (it yourselves)."[3:79]
The above clarifies the basic teaching of the Qur'an in stating that obedience is not due to any human or group of humans’ man made laws but according to the Quran, obedience and subservience is due to Allah alone, which is implemented in human affairs by following his Book (see 6:114) and instances where man subjects man, are described in the Quran as a great injustice. (Ref: Narration of enslavement of Children of Israel by Pharoah and his forces.)
From above and many other verses it is very clear that the Qur'an has abolished slavery, and not upheld it. If their remain certain verses were slaves are mentioned then these are those which were already existing in society from days of ignorance and about whom the Qur’an enjoined a gradual elevation in status leading to their freedom and abolishment of any future enslavement.
Furthermore it is the Quran which is the final authority for all matter of Islam and its verdict is final and absolute. No other Book carries more weight or reliability than the Quran in matters of Islam.
(Adopted from ready made research)
The Qur'an unambiguously states that no man no matter how high a status he may occupy, be that status of a direct recipient of Divine messages even an apostle,no human being has the right to enslave any other human or group of humans, says the Qur’an:
"It is not meet for a mortal that Allah should give him the Book and the wisdom and 'Nabuwah' (apostlehood), then he should say to men: Be my slaves rather than Allah's; but rather (he would say): Be sustenance providers (Rabaniyoon) because of your teaching the Book and your studying (it yourselves)."[3:79]
The above clarifies the basic teaching of the Qur'an in stating that obedience is not due to any human or group of humans’ man made laws but according to the Quran, obedience and subservience is due to Allah alone, which is implemented in human affairs by following his Book (see 6:114) and instances where man subjects man, are described in the Quran as a great injustice. (Ref: Narration of enslavement of Children of Israel by Pharoah and his forces.)
From above and many other verses it is very clear that the Qur'an has abolished slavery, and not upheld it. If their remain certain verses were slaves are mentioned then these are those which were already existing in society from days of ignorance and about whom the Qur’an enjoined a gradual elevation in status leading to their freedom and abolishment of any future enslavement.
Furthermore it is the Quran which is the final authority for all matter of Islam and its verdict is final and absolute. No other Book carries more weight or reliability than the Quran in matters of Islam.
(Adopted from ready made research)
written by Reed Wilson , September 08, 2011
Slavery in Islam.
The Christian church's main justification of the concept of slavery is based on Genesis 9:25-27. According to the Bible, the worldwide flood had concluded and there were only 8 humans alive on earth: Noah, his wife, their six sons and daughters in law. Noah's son Ham had seen "the nakedness of his father." So, Noah laid a curse -- not on Ham, who was guilty of some type of indiscretion. The sin was transferred to Noah's grandson Canaan. Such transference of sin from a guilty to an innocent person or persons is unusual in the world's religious and secular moral codes. It is normally considered highly unethical. However, it appears in many biblical passages. The curse extended to all of Canaan's descendants:Genesis 9:25-27: "Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers. He also said, 'Blessed be the Lord, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem. May God extend the territory of Japheth; may Japeth live in the tents of Shem and may Canaan be his slave'. "
Christians traditionally believed that Canaan had settled in Africa. The dark skin of Africans became associated with this "curse of Ham." Thus slavery of Africans became religiously justifiable. Author Anthony Pagden wrote:
"This reading of the Book of Genesis merged easily into a medieval iconographic tradition in which devils were always depicted as black. Later pseudo-scientific theories would be built around African skull shapes, dental structure, and body postures, in an attempt to find an unassailable argument--rooted in whatever the most persuasive contemporary idiom happened to be: law, theology, genealogy, or natural science -- why one part of the human race should live in perpetual indebtedness to another.
The Christian church's main justification of the concept of slavery is based on Genesis 9:25-27. According to the Bible, the worldwide flood had concluded and there were only 8 humans alive on earth: Noah, his wife, their six sons and daughters in law. Noah's son Ham had seen "the nakedness of his father." So, Noah laid a curse -- not on Ham, who was guilty of some type of indiscretion. The sin was transferred to Noah's grandson Canaan. Such transference of sin from a guilty to an innocent person or persons is unusual in the world's religious and secular moral codes. It is normally considered highly unethical. However, it appears in many biblical passages. The curse extended to all of Canaan's descendants:Genesis 9:25-27: "Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers. He also said, 'Blessed be the Lord, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem. May God extend the territory of Japheth; may Japeth live in the tents of Shem and may Canaan be his slave'. "
Christians traditionally believed that Canaan had settled in Africa. The dark skin of Africans became associated with this "curse of Ham." Thus slavery of Africans became religiously justifiable. Author Anthony Pagden wrote:
"This reading of the Book of Genesis merged easily into a medieval iconographic tradition in which devils were always depicted as black. Later pseudo-scientific theories would be built around African skull shapes, dental structure, and body postures, in an attempt to find an unassailable argument--rooted in whatever the most persuasive contemporary idiom happened to be: law, theology, genealogy, or natural science -- why one part of the human race should live in perpetual indebtedness to another.
written by Mozlem , September 08, 2011
(Adopted from ready made research)
Please provide citation...
Please provide citation...
written by Reed Wilson , September 08, 2011
Attempt The Ascent, Free a Slave
Marry: Slaves and Maid Servants; Emancipation Free Slaves
Prefer Marriage to a Believing Slave
Expiation of Breaking Sworn Oath
Set Free a Believing Slave
Free a Slave
Attempt the Ascent, Free a Slave
Qur'an: Surah 90 Al-Balad (The City)
Nay, I swear by this city... We verily have created man in an atmosphere... But he hath not attempted the Ascent, Ah, what will convey unto thee what the Ascent is! It is to free a slave, And to feed in the day of hunger, An orphan near of kin, Or some poor wretch in misery. And to be of those who believe and exhort one another to perseverance and exhort one another to pity.
Marry: Slaves and Maid Servants; Emancipation
Qur'an 24:27-34 Surah An-Nur (Light)
Tell the believing men... And tell the believing women... And marry such of you as are solitary and the pious of your slaves and maid servants. If they be poor; Allah will enrich them of His bounty. Allah is of ample means, Aware. And let those who cannot find a match keep chaste till Allah give them independence by His grace. And such of your slaves as seek a writing of emancipation, write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you. Force not your slave girls to whoredom that ye may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, if they would preserve their chastity. And if one force them, then (unto them), after their compulsion, Lo! Allah will be Forgiving, Merciful...
written by Reed Wilson , September 08, 2011
Free Slaves
Qur'an 2:177 Surah Al-Baqarah (The Cow)
It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the Prophets; and giveth his wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observes proper worship and pays the poor due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the God fearing.
Prefer Marriage to a Believing Slave
Qur'an 2:221 Surah Al-Baqarah (The Cow)
Wed not idolatresses till they believe; for lo! a believing bondwoman is better than an idolatress though she please you; and give not your daughters in marriage to idolaters till they believe, for lo! a believing slave is better than an idolater though he please you. These invite unto the Fire, and Allah inviteth unto the Garden, and unto forgiveness by His grace, and expoundeth thus His revelations to mankind that haply they may remember.
Expiation of Breaking Sworn Oath
Qur'an 5:89 Surah Al Ma'idah (The Table Spread)
Allah will not take you to task for that which is unintentional in your oaths, but He will take you to task for the oaths which ye swear in earnest. The expiation thereof is the feeding of ten of the needy with the average of that wherewith ye feed your own folk, or the clothing of them, or the liberation of a slave, and for him who findeth not (the wherewithal to do so) then a three day fast. This is the expiation of your oaths when ye have sworn; and keep your oaths...
Qur'an 2:177 Surah Al-Baqarah (The Cow)
It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the Prophets; and giveth his wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observes proper worship and pays the poor due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the God fearing.
Prefer Marriage to a Believing Slave
Qur'an 2:221 Surah Al-Baqarah (The Cow)
Wed not idolatresses till they believe; for lo! a believing bondwoman is better than an idolatress though she please you; and give not your daughters in marriage to idolaters till they believe, for lo! a believing slave is better than an idolater though he please you. These invite unto the Fire, and Allah inviteth unto the Garden, and unto forgiveness by His grace, and expoundeth thus His revelations to mankind that haply they may remember.
Expiation of Breaking Sworn Oath
Qur'an 5:89 Surah Al Ma'idah (The Table Spread)
Allah will not take you to task for that which is unintentional in your oaths, but He will take you to task for the oaths which ye swear in earnest. The expiation thereof is the feeding of ten of the needy with the average of that wherewith ye feed your own folk, or the clothing of them, or the liberation of a slave, and for him who findeth not (the wherewithal to do so) then a three day fast. This is the expiation of your oaths when ye have sworn; and keep your oaths...
written by Reed Wilson , September 08, 2011
Set Free a Believing Slave
Qur'an 4:92 Surah An-Nisa (Women)
It is not for a believer to kill a believer unless it be by mistake. He who hath killed a believer by mistake must set free a believing slave, and pay the blood money to the family of the slain, unless they remit it as a charity. If he (the victim) be of a people hostile unto you, and he is a believer, then (the penance is) to set free a believing slave. And if he cometh of a folk between whom and you there is a covenant, then the blood money must be paid unto his folk and (also) a believing slave must be set free. And whoso hath not the wherewithal must fast two consecutive months. A penance from Allah. Allah is Knower, Wise.
Free a Slave
Qur'an 58:3-4 Surah Al-Mujadilah (She That Disputeth)
Those who put away their wives by saying they are as their mothers and afterward would go back on that which they have said; the penalty in that case is the freeing of a slave before they touch one another. Unto this ye are exhorted; and Allah is informed of what ye do. And he who findeth not the wherewithal, let him fast for two successive months before they touch one another; and for him who is unable to do so the penance is the feeding of sixty needy ones. This, that ye may put trust in Allah and His messenger. Such are the limits imposed by Allah; and for disbelievers is a painful doom.
Qur'an 4:92 Surah An-Nisa (Women)
It is not for a believer to kill a believer unless it be by mistake. He who hath killed a believer by mistake must set free a believing slave, and pay the blood money to the family of the slain, unless they remit it as a charity. If he (the victim) be of a people hostile unto you, and he is a believer, then (the penance is) to set free a believing slave. And if he cometh of a folk between whom and you there is a covenant, then the blood money must be paid unto his folk and (also) a believing slave must be set free. And whoso hath not the wherewithal must fast two consecutive months. A penance from Allah. Allah is Knower, Wise.
Free a Slave
Qur'an 58:3-4 Surah Al-Mujadilah (She That Disputeth)
Those who put away their wives by saying they are as their mothers and afterward would go back on that which they have said; the penalty in that case is the freeing of a slave before they touch one another. Unto this ye are exhorted; and Allah is informed of what ye do. And he who findeth not the wherewithal, let him fast for two successive months before they touch one another; and for him who is unable to do so the penance is the feeding of sixty needy ones. This, that ye may put trust in Allah and His messenger. Such are the limits imposed by Allah; and for disbelievers is a painful doom.
written by duh_swami , September 08, 2011
It is not for a believer to kill a believer unless it be by mistake.
So the question is...Who is a believer and who is not...Takfir determines and takfir is never honest...Muslims are not supposed to kill Muslims but not all Muslims are really Muslims and are worthy only for death. Ahmadiyya for instance......Your religion is really twisted...
So the question is...Who is a believer and who is not...Takfir determines and takfir is never honest...Muslims are not supposed to kill Muslims but not all Muslims are really Muslims and are worthy only for death. Ahmadiyya for instance......Your religion is really twisted...
written by Scrutator , September 08, 2011
Reed, you write
"The basic and fundamental teaching of the Quran is that subservience is due to Allah alone and not to any human or group of humans. Obedience and sovereignty is only and only for Allah, says the Quran at numerous places. Qur'anic Islam does not accept Slavery. "
But, "Allah" is only a figment of Muhammad's imagination ! Did you miss how in the Quran, at least on three instances, when Mo is in a quandary, Allah apparently rushes to issue yet another firman which favours Mo ! The instances I refer to are when Mo had decided to stay away from his multiple wives, when he had lusted after his adopted son's wife and and when he was caught out screwing one of his wives' female slave. On every occasion, "Allah" made a pronouncement which favoured Mo.
Even Aisha, his child-bride, had remarked "Allah" seems to hasten in pleasing Mo !
How very convenient, isn't it ? Actually what happened in reality was that Mo had thought hard about these 'indiscretions' the night before and announced the following morning that "Allah" had issued a ruling which invariably helped him; Mo knew full well none of his deluded followers would dare question his announcements !
Besides the many cruel and inhuman acts Mo had committed towards non-muslims, he actually owned numerous slaves. So much for Islam being against slavery !
Also, Mo broke "Allah's rules" for muslims who are allowed up to four wives, Mo, at the last count had at least eleven, besides other "right hand possessions" or female slaves for sexual services (One name, that of Maryam comes to mind) !
Look Reed, the Quran is Mo's imagination, he needed an imaginary "Allah" upon which to base his pronouncements, for he had rightly reckoned none would have believed him if he had said the suras of the Quran were his own.
MO(MUHAMMAD) HAS BEEN EXPOSED, THE QURAN AND "ALLAH" ARE ALL IN HIS IMAGINATION AND ITS TIME YOU CAME OUT OF BELIEVING THESE FALSE ENTITIES !
"The basic and fundamental teaching of the Quran is that subservience is due to Allah alone and not to any human or group of humans. Obedience and sovereignty is only and only for Allah, says the Quran at numerous places. Qur'anic Islam does not accept Slavery. "
But, "Allah" is only a figment of Muhammad's imagination ! Did you miss how in the Quran, at least on three instances, when Mo is in a quandary, Allah apparently rushes to issue yet another firman which favours Mo ! The instances I refer to are when Mo had decided to stay away from his multiple wives, when he had lusted after his adopted son's wife and and when he was caught out screwing one of his wives' female slave. On every occasion, "Allah" made a pronouncement which favoured Mo.
Even Aisha, his child-bride, had remarked "Allah" seems to hasten in pleasing Mo !
How very convenient, isn't it ? Actually what happened in reality was that Mo had thought hard about these 'indiscretions' the night before and announced the following morning that "Allah" had issued a ruling which invariably helped him; Mo knew full well none of his deluded followers would dare question his announcements !
Besides the many cruel and inhuman acts Mo had committed towards non-muslims, he actually owned numerous slaves. So much for Islam being against slavery !
Also, Mo broke "Allah's rules" for muslims who are allowed up to four wives, Mo, at the last count had at least eleven, besides other "right hand possessions" or female slaves for sexual services (One name, that of Maryam comes to mind) !
Look Reed, the Quran is Mo's imagination, he needed an imaginary "Allah" upon which to base his pronouncements, for he had rightly reckoned none would have believed him if he had said the suras of the Quran were his own.
MO(MUHAMMAD) HAS BEEN EXPOSED, THE QURAN AND "ALLAH" ARE ALL IN HIS IMAGINATION AND ITS TIME YOU CAME OUT OF BELIEVING THESE FALSE ENTITIES !
written by Mozlem , September 08, 2011
The revelation of covering the women came after Mos wives were identified takeing dump in the open with their butts exposed. After the incident Mo got the revelation and came the covering of women verse.
written by Mozlem , September 08, 2011
Qur'an 4:92 Surah An-Nisa (Women)
How would you liberate a slave when u said above that Quran desists slavery. Aren’t you lying? All Quran is saying to repent free a slave.
The same analogy applies to 58:3-4 Surah Al-Mujadilah .
Do you agree in order to free a slave they have to own first? Now in your perverse twisted sense of reasoning let us have a revelation where it says do not keep slaves. Even for repentance not all slaves are being freed so where did u see slavery being abolished.
How would you liberate a slave when u said above that Quran desists slavery. Aren’t you lying? All Quran is saying to repent free a slave.
The same analogy applies to 58:3-4 Surah Al-Mujadilah .
Do you agree in order to free a slave they have to own first? Now in your perverse twisted sense of reasoning let us have a revelation where it says do not keep slaves. Even for repentance not all slaves are being freed so where did u see slavery being abolished.
written by fineliving56 , September 08, 2011
That, a merciful, just and loving Allah would have ABOLISHED SLAVERY immediately and completely and nothing other then THAT is excepted and it should be excepted by any one.
Quran did not come from any God ….your explanation is weak and condescending.
Quran did not come from any God ….your explanation is weak and condescending.
written by Chanakya , September 08, 2011
The real Quran revealed to Mohammed said ( the current Quran is an 8th Century hadith collection) in chapter 115 (this chapter was eliminated by the enemy's of Allah):
Chapter - 115 Allah Commands
115.1 "He commands…abolish slavery"
115.2 " Never beat your wife or any woman, believers will have reward from Allah for respect shown to non believing woman"
115.3 " He will reward the believers for all acts ..building temples, kabba's of non believers"
115.4 "he commands no law but the law of the people, freely choosen"
115.5 "he commands no believer to rule in his name"
115.6 "he commands believers to pay extra zakat for non belivers benefit"
115.7 "he commands no believers to ever fight or kill any human under any circumstances"
Chapter - 115 Allah Commands
115.1 "He commands…abolish slavery"
115.2 " Never beat your wife or any woman, believers will have reward from Allah for respect shown to non believing woman"
115.3 " He will reward the believers for all acts ..building temples, kabba's of non believers"
115.4 "he commands no law but the law of the people, freely choosen"
115.5 "he commands no believer to rule in his name"
115.6 "he commands believers to pay extra zakat for non belivers benefit"
115.7 "he commands no believers to ever fight or kill any human under any circumstances"
written by Yibel , September 08, 2011
Prophet, We have made lawful for you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave-girls whom Al-Ah has given you as booty; the daughters of your paternal and maternal uncles and of your paternal and maternal aunts who fled with you; and any believing woman who gives herself to the Prophet and whom the Prophet wishes to take in marriage. This privilege is yours alone, being granted to no other believer. We well know the duties We have imposed on the faithful concerning their wives and slave-girls. We grant you this privilage so that none may blame you. Al-Ah is ever forgiving and merciful. Quran Surah Al-Ahzab (The confederate Tribes) 33:50
Al-Ah to the rescue! Voila !!! The perfect deity gives his favorite, and last prophet, Muhammad anything his little heart desires! And the whole horde of marauding murdering rapists and pillagers get sex slaves, too!!! And they say there's no FUN in Islam.
Al-Ah to the rescue! Voila !!! The perfect deity gives his favorite, and last prophet, Muhammad anything his little heart desires! And the whole horde of marauding murdering rapists and pillagers get sex slaves, too!!! And they say there's no FUN in Islam.
written by Mr. Right , September 08, 2011
So you said that Allah was a hermaphrodite. Does that mean that he could screw himself? That's pretty funny.
You're friend, Mr. Right
You're friend, Mr. Right
written by Mr. Right , September 08, 2011
This whole allah thing is really curious. I'm pretty sure that the followers of said character are all conspiracy theorists. I read, all the time, that all nonbelievers have done this and done that to discredit this allah guy. Can we get real? The crap that everyone is preaching is not real. I'm not speaking only of allah and mohammed but all ideas of a higher power. Will you all please grow up and stop believing in fairy-tales?
Peace my friends.
Peace my friends.
written by Reed Wilson. , September 09, 2011
Yibel.Thanks. I am of the view that divine message received through all the messengers,from Noah to Muhammad is one and the same. Yet ,I think, among the existing scriptures in their present form, Quran is the only book that says "free the slave".
Here are a collection of quotes in regards to the teachings of slavery in the Bible compared to those in the Qur'an.
"If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property." [Exodus 21:20-21]
"... then you shall take an awl and pierce it through his ear into the door, and he shall be your servant forever. Also you shall do likewise to your maidservant." [Deuteronomy 15:17]
"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have - you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you¼ they also may become your possession. You may even bequeath them¼ as a possession; you can use them as permanent slaves. But in respect to your countrymen, the sons of Israel, you shall not rule with severity over one another." [Leviticus 25:44-46]
Contd.
Here are a collection of quotes in regards to the teachings of slavery in the Bible compared to those in the Qur'an.
"If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property." [Exodus 21:20-21]
"... then you shall take an awl and pierce it through his ear into the door, and he shall be your servant forever. Also you shall do likewise to your maidservant." [Deuteronomy 15:17]
"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have - you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you¼ they also may become your possession. You may even bequeath them¼ as a possession; you can use them as permanent slaves. But in respect to your countrymen, the sons of Israel, you shall not rule with severity over one another." [Leviticus 25:44-46]
Contd.
written by Reed Wilson. , September 09, 2011
Even Jesus in New Testament is seen visiting a slave, Jesus did not free the slave and instead called the slave owner the most faithful in Israel;
"I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith." [Luke 7:9]
In Islam, an enslaver is an Unrighteous person, the Bible calls them the Most Faithful.
"Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart. [Ephesians 6:5]
"All who are under the yoke as slaves are to regard their own masters as worthy of all honor so that the name of God and our doctrine will not be spoken against." [1 Timothy 6:1]
"Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord." [Colossians 3:22]
"Urge bondslaves to be subject to their own masters in everything, to be well-pleasing, not argumentative." [Titus 2:9]
Cotd.
"I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith." [Luke 7:9]
In Islam, an enslaver is an Unrighteous person, the Bible calls them the Most Faithful.
"Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart. [Ephesians 6:5]
"All who are under the yoke as slaves are to regard their own masters as worthy of all honor so that the name of God and our doctrine will not be spoken against." [1 Timothy 6:1]
"Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord." [Colossians 3:22]
"Urge bondslaves to be subject to their own masters in everything, to be well-pleasing, not argumentative." [Titus 2:9]
Cotd.
written by Reed Wilson. , September 09, 2011
Here is what some Christians in history have said about Slavery;
"The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example." [Rev. R. Furman, D.D., Baptist, of South Carolina]
"There is not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery, but many regulating it. It is not then, we conclude, immoral." [Rev. Alexander Campbell]
"The extracts from Holy Writ unequivocally assert the right of property in slaves." [Rev. E.D. Simms, professor, Randolph-Macon College]
"I draw my warrant from the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to hold the slave in bondage." [Rev. Thomas Witherspoon, Presbyterian, of Alabama]
"In another area of human rights, many Christian clergymen advocated slavery. Historian Larry Hise notes in his book 'Pro-Slavery' that ministers 'wrote almost half of all defenses of slavery published in America.' He lists 275 men of the cloth who used the Bible to prove that white people were entitled to own black people as work animals." [James A. Haught, 'Holy Horrors']
"The delegates of the annual conference are decidedly opposed to modern abolitionism, and wholly disclaim any right, wish, or intention to interfere in the civil and political relation between master and slave in the slave-holding states of the union." [Methodist Episcopal Church, Statement of the General Conference, Cincinnati, May 1836]
"Montgomery, Alabama. A white Republican state senator running for Congress wrote a speech in which he argued that slavery is justified by the Bible and was good for African Americans. ...'People who are bitter and hateful about slavery are obviously bitter and hateful against God and his word, because they reject what God says and embrace what mere humans say concerning slavery,' Charles Davidson wrote." [San Francisco Chronicle, 10 May 1996 (Associated Press)]
"My correspondent thinks with Mr. Jefferson, that Jehovah has no attributes that will harmonize with slavery; and that all men are born free and equal. Now, I say let him throw away his Bible as Mr. Jefferson did his and then they will be fit companions. But never disgrace the Bible by making Mr. Jefferson its expounder, nor Mr. Jefferson by deriving his sentiments from it. Mr. Jefferson did not bow to the authority of the Bible, and on this subject I do not bow to him." [Rev. Thornton Stringfellow, D.D., in "Scriptural View of Slavery," a work showing that the Bible sanctions slavery, from John E. Remsburg, "Six Historic Americans. Chapter 2: Thomas Jefferson"]
- And now i would like to close with a quote from Mr. Douglass:
"I prayed (to Jesus) for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs." [Frederick Douglass, escaped slave]
Yibel, if you know any scripture that says 'free slave', please tell me.
"The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example." [Rev. R. Furman, D.D., Baptist, of South Carolina]
"There is not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery, but many regulating it. It is not then, we conclude, immoral." [Rev. Alexander Campbell]
"The extracts from Holy Writ unequivocally assert the right of property in slaves." [Rev. E.D. Simms, professor, Randolph-Macon College]
"I draw my warrant from the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to hold the slave in bondage." [Rev. Thomas Witherspoon, Presbyterian, of Alabama]
"In another area of human rights, many Christian clergymen advocated slavery. Historian Larry Hise notes in his book 'Pro-Slavery' that ministers 'wrote almost half of all defenses of slavery published in America.' He lists 275 men of the cloth who used the Bible to prove that white people were entitled to own black people as work animals." [James A. Haught, 'Holy Horrors']
"The delegates of the annual conference are decidedly opposed to modern abolitionism, and wholly disclaim any right, wish, or intention to interfere in the civil and political relation between master and slave in the slave-holding states of the union." [Methodist Episcopal Church, Statement of the General Conference, Cincinnati, May 1836]
"Montgomery, Alabama. A white Republican state senator running for Congress wrote a speech in which he argued that slavery is justified by the Bible and was good for African Americans. ...'People who are bitter and hateful about slavery are obviously bitter and hateful against God and his word, because they reject what God says and embrace what mere humans say concerning slavery,' Charles Davidson wrote." [San Francisco Chronicle, 10 May 1996 (Associated Press)]
"My correspondent thinks with Mr. Jefferson, that Jehovah has no attributes that will harmonize with slavery; and that all men are born free and equal. Now, I say let him throw away his Bible as Mr. Jefferson did his and then they will be fit companions. But never disgrace the Bible by making Mr. Jefferson its expounder, nor Mr. Jefferson by deriving his sentiments from it. Mr. Jefferson did not bow to the authority of the Bible, and on this subject I do not bow to him." [Rev. Thornton Stringfellow, D.D., in "Scriptural View of Slavery," a work showing that the Bible sanctions slavery, from John E. Remsburg, "Six Historic Americans. Chapter 2: Thomas Jefferson"]
- And now i would like to close with a quote from Mr. Douglass:
"I prayed (to Jesus) for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs." [Frederick Douglass, escaped slave]
Yibel, if you know any scripture that says 'free slave', please tell me.
written by Mozlem , September 09, 2011
What has slavery in Bible or Christianity got to do with Islam or Quran.
All you did is change the aspect or deflected the focus.
Does this change anything written in Quran or you are short of words. Take help from Malman the sperm donor (alebit 50% of time)
All you did is change the aspect or deflected the focus.
Does this change anything written in Quran or you are short of words. Take help from Malman the sperm donor (alebit 50% of time)
written by duh_swami , September 09, 2011
Jesus also said that you can't serve two masters...I wonder what he meant by that?
According to scripture, Jesus did not appear on Earth to end slavery, but to save souls...On the same token he did not inform people about germs, the cause of many fatal illnesses, and the glories of hand washing, he also did not inform about the health hazards of open sewers...While he and his disciples went about healing people of their afflictions, they did not educate about what caused these afflictions to begin with...
That Jesus, if he actually existed, was not concerned with slavery was probably based on the idea that the world (then) could not function without them... Socrates and Plato were against slavery, but they also realized that the world (then) would be upside down without them, because slaves did all the dirty work, and they worked cheap...
According to scripture, Jesus did not appear on Earth to end slavery, but to save souls...On the same token he did not inform people about germs, the cause of many fatal illnesses, and the glories of hand washing, he also did not inform about the health hazards of open sewers...While he and his disciples went about healing people of their afflictions, they did not educate about what caused these afflictions to begin with...
That Jesus, if he actually existed, was not concerned with slavery was probably based on the idea that the world (then) could not function without them... Socrates and Plato were against slavery, but they also realized that the world (then) would be upside down without them, because slaves did all the dirty work, and they worked cheap...
written by fineliving56 , September 09, 2011
It is funny how Muslims, when faced with criticism and cannot convince any body of their claims about Quran …..
they fall on the old : well, other religions, did, worse …so at least Islam is said this or that …
All they are saying …. that Islam is bad BUT NOT AS BAD as other religion …haha
Quran massagers brain cells, has been soaked is so much of Quran's @&#%, for so long, it became @%$# .
they fall on the old : well, other religions, did, worse …so at least Islam is said this or that …
All they are saying …. that Islam is bad BUT NOT AS BAD as other religion …haha
Quran massagers brain cells, has been soaked is so much of Quran's @&#%, for so long, it became @%$# .
written by Dr Radhasyam Brahmachari , September 09, 2011
In fact, the entire community of Muslims are slaves of Arab Imperialism. The Islamic brainwashing turns them into most loyal slaves of Arabia.
written by Mozlem , September 09, 2011
PADDY
Sep 8, 2011 22:05
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the time of jahiliya is back. may allah protect us all. in my opinion thhis is due to what we eat. Lot of haram is fed to us us by Western Co. in chocales, cakes all the E numbers in our procceced foods c the web for more details
written by pimpicus , September 09, 2011
There is a slight error in your article regarding the "slaves who built the pyramids". Recent archaeological findings strongly suggest that the pyramids were in fact built by skilled craftsmen and paid laborors paid by the pharoah collected through taxes.
Also, it has been found that the workers had beef in their diet (a delicacy in ancient Egypt) and would never be fed to a slave.
such precision and craftsmanship to build the angles of the pyramids along with the interiors are proof that skilled laborors were hired for the job.
Lastly, there is NO evidence whatsoever of slaves even being present in Egypt during the time of the pyramids and also of jews ever being condemned to slavery
Great article nonetheless; very informative
Also, it has been found that the workers had beef in their diet (a delicacy in ancient Egypt) and would never be fed to a slave.
such precision and craftsmanship to build the angles of the pyramids along with the interiors are proof that skilled laborors were hired for the job.
Lastly, there is NO evidence whatsoever of slaves even being present in Egypt during the time of the pyramids and also of jews ever being condemned to slavery
Great article nonetheless; very informative
written by Reed Wilson. , September 09, 2011
Dr Radhasyam Brahmachari. "In fact, the entire community of Muslims are slaves of Arab Imperialism. The Islamic brainwashing turns them into most loyal slaves of Arabia."
This your view which could be debated and agreed. Hopefully Mr. MA Khan also means this kind of slavery.
This your view which could be debated and agreed. Hopefully Mr. MA Khan also means this kind of slavery.
written by Malem , September 09, 2011
Mozlem, I was happy to see your post as it shows the true gandhu that you are. It also proves my point that most (not all) of the people who are standing against Islam on this board are no more than juvenile delinquents who have access to the parents computer. You possess neither any wisdom, or worthwhile knowledge on any topics you speak about aside from your fascination with other mens body parts and fecal matter. Your only redeeming character is that you probably provide people with a chuckle here and there. Otherwise your posts are just gaps taking up space, sort of like whats in your head lad.
Why dont you challenge yourself to read a book (not a coloring picture book like Duh) and see if for once you can actually compose a thought in paragraph form, just try it. If however you would like to hurl insults that is your choice, why you want to attack my family I am not sure since they have no skin in this game.
Why dont you challenge yourself to read a book (not a coloring picture book like Duh) and see if for once you can actually compose a thought in paragraph form, just try it. If however you would like to hurl insults that is your choice, why you want to attack my family I am not sure since they have no skin in this game.
written by Reed Wilson. , September 09, 2011
duh-swami. "Jesus also said that you can't serve two masters...I wonder what he meant by that?
This is part of most impressive and effective sermon of Jesus which starts from Matthew 5:1. Let me read for you from 6:19 making more simple:
6:19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. 22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness! 24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.
Basically Jesus is teaching against shirk. It is explained at:
1 Kings 18:21 Elijah went before the people and said, "How long will you waver between two opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him." But the people said nothing.
Similar teachings are rife in Quran as:
(Joseph said) "My fellow-prisoners can many different masters be considered better than One All-dominant God? What you worship instead of God are no more than empty names that you and your fathers have given to certain things. God has not given any authority to such names. Judgment belongs to no one but God. He has commanded you to follow nothing but Him. This is the only true religion, but most people do not know. (12:39-40)
This is part of most impressive and effective sermon of Jesus which starts from Matthew 5:1. Let me read for you from 6:19 making more simple:
6:19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. 22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness! 24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.
Basically Jesus is teaching against shirk. It is explained at:
1 Kings 18:21 Elijah went before the people and said, "How long will you waver between two opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him." But the people said nothing.
Similar teachings are rife in Quran as:
(Joseph said) "My fellow-prisoners can many different masters be considered better than One All-dominant God? What you worship instead of God are no more than empty names that you and your fathers have given to certain things. God has not given any authority to such names. Judgment belongs to no one but God. He has commanded you to follow nothing but Him. This is the only true religion, but most people do not know. (12:39-40)
written by Reed Wilson. , September 09, 2011
duh-swami. "According to scripture, Jesus did not appear on Earth to end slavery, but to save souls".
Which scripture? It is my belief that he abolished slavery as did Moses and his predecessors. Slavery is usurpation and exploitation rejected by religion. Abolishing slavery is saving souls. He was against mundane masters.
"On the same token he did not inform people about germs, the cause of many fatal illnesses, and the glories of hand washing, he also did not inform about the health hazards of open sewers...While he and his disciples went about healing people of their afflictions, they did not educate about what caused these afflictions to begin with..".
Yes he was nonchalant about hand washing and perhaps believed in active acquired immunity.'am not sure of open sewers and his disciples.
"That Jesus, if he actually existed, was not concerned with slavery was probably based on the idea that the world (then) could not function without them..".
He did exist. I know his disciples and his Gospel. No work is dirty work. Please agree!!
Which scripture? It is my belief that he abolished slavery as did Moses and his predecessors. Slavery is usurpation and exploitation rejected by religion. Abolishing slavery is saving souls. He was against mundane masters.
"On the same token he did not inform people about germs, the cause of many fatal illnesses, and the glories of hand washing, he also did not inform about the health hazards of open sewers...While he and his disciples went about healing people of their afflictions, they did not educate about what caused these afflictions to begin with..".
Yes he was nonchalant about hand washing and perhaps believed in active acquired immunity.'am not sure of open sewers and his disciples.
"That Jesus, if he actually existed, was not concerned with slavery was probably based on the idea that the world (then) could not function without them..".
He did exist. I know his disciples and his Gospel. No work is dirty work. Please agree!!
written by duh_swami , September 09, 2011
Which scripture? It is my belief that he abolished slavery as did Moses and his predecessors.
You know what scripture, don't play dumb...And he was not nonchalant about hand washing, he didn't mention it at all...And if he and Moses abolished slavery, they failed because we still have it...Your fairy tales are full of holes like swiss cheese...
You know what scripture, don't play dumb...And he was not nonchalant about hand washing, he didn't mention it at all...And if he and Moses abolished slavery, they failed because we still have it...Your fairy tales are full of holes like swiss cheese...
written by Mozlem , September 09, 2011
NED = Non educated delinquent
Who started the attack...
You said get laid, then you went on dog fascination and then faecal and so on...
If you cant take heat as the fire I put under your feet may be making you squirm don’t use vile stuff.
If you throw mud you will end waddling in it like a pig if not doing wudu by it.
Regarding gaps in knowledge is correct for Quran say meaning of Alif Laam Meem is known to Allah so how can you or any Mullah like you can claim full knowledge and I am not a mullah.
Malaman what is Alif Laam Meem?
Who started the attack...
You said get laid, then you went on dog fascination and then faecal and so on...
If you cant take heat as the fire I put under your feet may be making you squirm don’t use vile stuff.
If you throw mud you will end waddling in it like a pig if not doing wudu by it.
Regarding gaps in knowledge is correct for Quran say meaning of Alif Laam Meem is known to Allah so how can you or any Mullah like you can claim full knowledge and I am not a mullah.
Malaman what is Alif Laam Meem?
written by Malem , September 09, 2011
If you study the Quran you would know the meaning of Alif Laam Meem. My post would be too long to explain it to someone as dense as you my boy. I will say there are a few explanations of what these letters mean, but only one person knows and his name is Allah.
By the way I never said "get laid"? Where did you dig that up from
By the way I never said "get laid"? Where did you dig that up from
written by duh_swami , September 09, 2011
but only one person knows and his name is Allah.
Allah is a person? Thanks for sharing that...Allah is not god, Allah is a person...No doubt his alter ego is Mohammad...
Allah is a person? Thanks for sharing that...Allah is not god, Allah is a person...No doubt his alter ego is Mohammad...
written by fineliving56 , September 09, 2011
THAT…. is what we have been trying to tell all Muslims and all the Quran lovers ….didn't' we
Allah is a person …the person is Muhammad …
Muhammad the person, created Quran to dominate people and have all shades of women and all the money his little hearts could desire.
I mean... what is wrong with giving him self the fifth of every bounty in his Quran that came from Allah/Muhammad the person.???…nothing
Now Malem said it him self…. Allah is a person
I double my thanks to Swami for admitting that Malem …
Allah is a person …the person is Muhammad …
Muhammad the person, created Quran to dominate people and have all shades of women and all the money his little hearts could desire.
I mean... what is wrong with giving him self the fifth of every bounty in his Quran that came from Allah/Muhammad the person.???…nothing
Now Malem said it him self…. Allah is a person
I double my thanks to Swami for admitting that Malem …
written by Reed Wilson. , September 10, 2011
Duh-swami. "You know what scripture, don't play dumb."
I really dont remember what you mean. I forget also.
"And he was not nonchalant about hand washing, he didn't mention it at all."
He did. Let me recite:
Matthew 15: 1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”
"Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.
Mark endorsed.
Mark 7:5-23. 5 So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don’t your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?”
He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:
“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”
'Human rules' and 'human traditions' is the malady of muslims also. They call it sharia, sunnah, sira and hadis. They are hypocrites in jargon of Jesus.
I really dont remember what you mean. I forget also.
"And he was not nonchalant about hand washing, he didn't mention it at all."
He did. Let me recite:
Matthew 15: 1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”
"Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.
Mark endorsed.
Mark 7:5-23. 5 So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don’t your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?”
He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:
“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”
'Human rules' and 'human traditions' is the malady of muslims also. They call it sharia, sunnah, sira and hadis. They are hypocrites in jargon of Jesus.
written by duh_swami , September 10, 2011
Jesus did not bring up the subject of hand washing, others did...and what hand washing was done was ritual, and had nothing to do with germs or preventative medicine...Jesus did not inform anyone about germs or the causes of illnesses...However their is a little book called the 'Essene Gospel of Peace', where Jesus does address illness, but blames Satan...Allah does not inform anyone about germs either...Since germs were a major cause of illness and death, you would think a caring god would inform them...But no, millions upon millions had to die first, and wait until future scientists discovered them... Neither of the two gods, nor their chief spokesmen Jesus and Mohammad, warned against germs because they did not know about them...YHVH or Allah could have warned Adam about germs, but neglected to do so...This negligence was criminal...
written by Reed Wilson. , September 10, 2011
duh-swami. Satan is symbolic germ. Had he tell you, you wouldn't comprehend because you cannot see microbes with naked eye.
The father of microscopy, Anton van Leeuwenhoek of Holland, started as an apprentice in a dry goods store where magnifying glasses were used to count the threads in cloth. He taught himself new methods for grinding and polishing tiny lenses of great curvature which gave magnifications up to 270 diameters, the finest known at that time. These led to the building of his microscopes and the biological discoveries for which he is famous. He was the first to see and describe bacteria, yeast plants, the teeming life in a drop of water, and the circulation of blood corpuscles in capillaries. During a long life he used his lenses to make pioneer studies on an extraordinary variety of things, both living and non living, and reported his findings in over a hundred letters to the Royal Society of England and the French Academy.
Anton van Leeuwenhoek lived between 1632-1723. After that a window opened. We can see protozoans bacteria, viruses, spirochetes, cocci, spores and what not. Now you use electron microscopes of enormous magnifications.
Satan, evils and ghosts are symbolic. They mean harmful and unhygienic. Quran hints to microscopic and even smaller objects. I will tell you:)
But duh-swami you missed what I wanted to bring home. Maybe deliberately.
The father of microscopy, Anton van Leeuwenhoek of Holland, started as an apprentice in a dry goods store where magnifying glasses were used to count the threads in cloth. He taught himself new methods for grinding and polishing tiny lenses of great curvature which gave magnifications up to 270 diameters, the finest known at that time. These led to the building of his microscopes and the biological discoveries for which he is famous. He was the first to see and describe bacteria, yeast plants, the teeming life in a drop of water, and the circulation of blood corpuscles in capillaries. During a long life he used his lenses to make pioneer studies on an extraordinary variety of things, both living and non living, and reported his findings in over a hundred letters to the Royal Society of England and the French Academy.
Anton van Leeuwenhoek lived between 1632-1723. After that a window opened. We can see protozoans bacteria, viruses, spirochetes, cocci, spores and what not. Now you use electron microscopes of enormous magnifications.
Satan, evils and ghosts are symbolic. They mean harmful and unhygienic. Quran hints to microscopic and even smaller objects. I will tell you:)
But duh-swami you missed what I wanted to bring home. Maybe deliberately.
written by duh_swami , September 10, 2011
Me thinketh you complaineth too much...
I did not ask for a long winded 'Opinion' full of fairy tale speculations...My point was that Jesus did not mention hand washing as a hygienic matter...and he didn't, nor did 'God'
so instruct Adam and Eve...end of story...
I did not ask for a long winded 'Opinion' full of fairy tale speculations...My point was that Jesus did not mention hand washing as a hygienic matter...and he didn't, nor did 'God'
so instruct Adam and Eve...end of story...
written by Malem , September 10, 2011
By the way Jesus absolutely brought up the importance of washing oneself in water, go back and read the the bible (Sorry I meant go ask an adult nearby to read it to you). I understand you have a hard time accepting this because you probably wash very little
written by duh_swami , September 10, 2011
Jesus told no one about germs thug...He did not recommend hand washing for sanitation purposes, although he should have...Where did he tell people to brush their teeth to avoid rot? Jesus was not a sanitation engineer...Go milk a cow or something...
written by Dwito , September 10, 2011
Your above post generated too many question in my mind. But that astonishes me is whether washing hands before eating, would be a subject of discourse to adult people? Would anyone who works and get his hand soiled, could eat without washing at all? Even if he happened to be a letter less ignorant? How could this be possible?
written by duh_swami , September 10, 2011
Would anyone who works and get his hand soiled, could eat without washing at all?
Most people would wash off visible dirt, but often don't wash before eating at all...Some people are very conscious about that, but to this very day, many are not...That's why some business and public restrooms have signs reminding people to wash up...I once knew a Doctor who washed off before toileting...When asked why, he said he knew where that little thing has been, but he does not know where his hands have been...It's the same with food...You can't be sure where your hands have been...
Most people would wash off visible dirt, but often don't wash before eating at all...Some people are very conscious about that, but to this very day, many are not...That's why some business and public restrooms have signs reminding people to wash up...I once knew a Doctor who washed off before toileting...When asked why, he said he knew where that little thing has been, but he does not know where his hands have been...It's the same with food...You can't be sure where your hands have been...
written by Reed Wilson. , September 10, 2011
Me thinketh you didn’t bother to read or comprehend.
Of course you agreed with me on following:
"Satan is symbolic germ. Had he tell you, you wouldn't comprehend because you cannot see microbes with naked eye".
"Jesus also said that you can't serve two masters...I wonder what he meant by that?
"Basically Jesus is teaching against shirk."
Free slaves in Quran only.
You are not generous in thanking.
Of course you agreed with me on following:
"Satan is symbolic germ. Had he tell you, you wouldn't comprehend because you cannot see microbes with naked eye".
"Jesus also said that you can't serve two masters...I wonder what he meant by that?
"Basically Jesus is teaching against shirk."
Free slaves in Quran only.
You are not generous in thanking.
written by duh_swami , September 10, 2011
"Basically Jesus is teaching against shirk."
Shirk is an Islamic concept invented far after Jesus time...But there is a similarity between shirk and "thou shall have no other gods before me"...
When Jesus said ' I and my father are one', was that shirk? Was Jesus a shirker? He can't be both God and Son of God, unless the Christians are right and the Quran is wrong...So which is it?
Shirk is an Islamic concept invented far after Jesus time...But there is a similarity between shirk and "thou shall have no other gods before me"...
When Jesus said ' I and my father are one', was that shirk? Was Jesus a shirker? He can't be both God and Son of God, unless the Christians are right and the Quran is wrong...So which is it?
written by Dwito , September 10, 2011
Free slaves in Quran only.
Then why did JFK fight? was he a mussie? I didn't know that.
Then why did JFK fight? was he a mussie? I didn't know that.
written by Reed Wilson. , September 10, 2011
duh-swami you asked "Jesus also said that you can't serve two masters...I wonder what he meant by that?
He means you should NOT associate partners with God. It is not a new concept. The oldest in Vedas.
1 Kings 18:21 Elijah went before the people and said, "How long will you waver between two opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him." But the people said nothing
Now you say "Shirk is an Islamic concept invented far after Jesus time...But there is a similarity between shirk and "thou shall have no other gods before me"...
Please read context. You did not tell me scripture. OK. Dont thank.
He means you should NOT associate partners with God. It is not a new concept. The oldest in Vedas.
1 Kings 18:21 Elijah went before the people and said, "How long will you waver between two opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him." But the people said nothing
Now you say "Shirk is an Islamic concept invented far after Jesus time...But there is a similarity between shirk and "thou shall have no other gods before me"...
Please read context. You did not tell me scripture. OK. Dont thank.
written by duh_swami , September 10, 2011
You did not answer the question Reed...Was Jesus a shirker?
written by Yibel , September 10, 2011
Free the slave as per the Quran:
Q. 4:92, If a believer accidently kills another believer then he must free a Muslim
slave and pay blood-money to the family (slaves and non-Muslims don't don't count, of course)
Q. 5:89, The penalty for a broken oath involves the freeing of a slave as one of the
options (the Bible says not to make oaths in the first place)
58:3, The penalty for improperly divorcing a wife (using a pagan saying) is to free a
slave (Jesus said not to divorce at all)
Freeing slaves as per the Bible:
Leviticus 25:9-10 Every 50th year, the Jubile, "ye shall return every man unto his
possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family."
The Rev. Thorton Stringfellow, and others like him, must not have read the whole
Bible. Perhaps they looked for the passages that they thought would back up their
particular point of view, and then claimed their view was YHVH's view. The owners of
slaves in the slave-holding states of the union certainly had a vested interest (money) in keeping slavery alive. However, Jesus said: You cannot serve two masters.
The slave owners were serving the god of money. We fought a civil war in the US to
end the abomination of slavery and to establish liberty and justice for all based on
the Jubilee: "Mine eyes have seen the Glory of the Coming of the Lord."
Q. 4:92, If a believer accidently kills another believer then he must free a Muslim
slave and pay blood-money to the family (slaves and non-Muslims don't don't count, of course)
Q. 5:89, The penalty for a broken oath involves the freeing of a slave as one of the
options (the Bible says not to make oaths in the first place)
58:3, The penalty for improperly divorcing a wife (using a pagan saying) is to free a
slave (Jesus said not to divorce at all)
Freeing slaves as per the Bible:
Leviticus 25:9-10 Every 50th year, the Jubile, "ye shall return every man unto his
possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family."
The Rev. Thorton Stringfellow, and others like him, must not have read the whole
Bible. Perhaps they looked for the passages that they thought would back up their
particular point of view, and then claimed their view was YHVH's view. The owners of
slaves in the slave-holding states of the union certainly had a vested interest (money) in keeping slavery alive. However, Jesus said: You cannot serve two masters.
The slave owners were serving the god of money. We fought a civil war in the US to
end the abomination of slavery and to establish liberty and justice for all based on
the Jubilee: "Mine eyes have seen the Glory of the Coming of the Lord."
written by Dwito , September 10, 2011
[Editor: Dwito, please use standard wording in your comment to avoid caught up by the system.]
Then why did Abraham Lincoln and JFK fight for? Were they mussies ? I didn't know that.
I hope you already got my point and made your reply accordingly.
Sorry for the inconvenience. Thanks. I'll wait for the appearance.
Then why did Abraham Lincoln and JFK fight for? Were they mussies ? I didn't know that.
I hope you already got my point and made your reply accordingly.
Sorry for the inconvenience. Thanks. I'll wait for the appearance.
written by Dwito , September 10, 2011
I've already made a correction in my post. Let it also appear after review. Thanks.
written by Mr. Right , September 11, 2011
You people are all just so silly. You quote religious text as if though it had any real meaning. For your own sake, please grow up.
Peace to all mankind through sensible thinking.
Peace to all mankind through sensible thinking.
written by Dwito , September 11, 2011
Dear Mr. Right, we know you are the most intelligent person in this globe. So I hope you will excuse us here as ourselves to fight in our way to the comparatively more sinister mass of people who not only trust and believe their time barred and lapsed doctrine, but put their lives to bring whole world and human civilization under that dangerous end.
Thank you.
Thank you.
written by duh_swami , September 11, 2011
You people are all just so silly. You quote religious text as if though it had any real meaning.
You probably went away, but just the same, what religious texts are you talking about? All religious texts have meaning, the question is, does the meaning have any credibility in the real world?
You probably went away, but just the same, what religious texts are you talking about? All religious texts have meaning, the question is, does the meaning have any credibility in the real world?
written by Mozlem , September 11, 2011
Can you tell what you said earlier to RW, AKI and Malman
written by Malem , September 11, 2011
Religious texts all have meaning, if you read them. Maybe it is your inability to comprehend him that is the stumbling block. Should you need someone to point you in the right direction to get a clearer picture on Islam I would gladly do that for you.
written by Reed Wilson. , September 11, 2011
Yibel. Thanks for searching. You quoted "Leveticus 25. Count off seven sabbath years—seven times seven years—so that the seven sabbath years amount to a period of forty-nine years. 9 Then have the trumpet sounded everywhere on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the Day of Atonement sound the trumpet throughout your land. 10 Consecrate the fiftieth year and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you; each of you is to return to your family property and to your own clan. 11 The fiftieth year shall be a jubilee for you; do not sow and do not reap what grows of itself or harvest the untended vines. 12 For it is a jubilee and is to be holy for you; eat only what is taken directly from the fields."
If all that means freeing slave, it is fine.
The Rev. Thorton Stringfellow, and others like him, must not have read the whole
Bible. Perhaps they looked for the passages that they thought would back up their
particular point of view, and then claimed their view was YHVH's view. The owners of
slaves in the slave-holding states of the union certainly had a vested interest (money) in keeping slavery alive. However, Jesus said: You cannot serve two masters.
Yes slavery could be abolished by discouraging the practice, as slaves were commodity purchased by heard earned money.
No oath and no divorce is Christian sharia. I am not discussing it now.
If all that means freeing slave, it is fine.
The Rev. Thorton Stringfellow, and others like him, must not have read the whole
Bible. Perhaps they looked for the passages that they thought would back up their
particular point of view, and then claimed their view was YHVH's view. The owners of
slaves in the slave-holding states of the union certainly had a vested interest (money) in keeping slavery alive. However, Jesus said: You cannot serve two masters.
Yes slavery could be abolished by discouraging the practice, as slaves were commodity purchased by heard earned money.
No oath and no divorce is Christian sharia. I am not discussing it now.
written by Mr. Right , September 12, 2011
I've spent much of my life studying religion and have come to one conclusion, it is nothing more than a complete waste of time. I find it so sad that people bicker back and forth just trying to prove that their belief system is better than someone else's. Almost everyone on here proves it. Religious text is nothing more than a compilation of fables! Look at religion throughout time, we can mark when different religions are created and even when some of them cease to exist. I am actually quite amused at the anger I've witnessed on this site. Some people claim that allah will crush non believers and others are enraged by those who are Muslim. So sad. I urge all of you to take a step back and view this from the point of view of an impartial human being. Malem, if you have the inability to do so then maybe I can guide you. You all need to learn to accept each other as equals, as living breathing people with hopes and dreams for a better world. Why is there so much hatred because of foolish religion?
Peace my friends.
Peace my friends.
written by Mr. Right , September 12, 2011
I would like to respond to your comment, but with all due respect I really don't understand what it is you're trying to say.
written by Brown Superman , September 12, 2011
Calling others "boys" and "juveniles" make you a man? And you aren't a man if you don't call them such? If you are a real man, probably you got to ponder why your wives are hanging around the parks................ and entertaining non-muslim old men. You are worse off then these men?
Isn't it about time you grow up? Or is it because you are a she-male, that becomes the root cause of the main problem. May be you can adopt one or more of our "boys" if they are agreeable to add an Abdullah to their tails. Afterall, Abdullah is not really islamic in essence.
Btw, Religious texts all do have meanings, real stupid meanings and very well suits people of that category. What is the big deal then? Nothing, right?
Like Mr Right (you couldn't even get that name right! Your mental state shows.) said that religious texts are compilation of fables. I add that in the case of islamic texts, the compilation id of moronic fables and there are people to believe those and practice. I wonder when you would get into your dead relative's grave to do what Mo' did to the body of his dead aunt. Thereafter, scream Allahu Akbar.
Isn't it about time you grow up? Or is it because you are a she-male, that becomes the root cause of the main problem. May be you can adopt one or more of our "boys" if they are agreeable to add an Abdullah to their tails. Afterall, Abdullah is not really islamic in essence.
Btw, Religious texts all do have meanings, real stupid meanings and very well suits people of that category. What is the big deal then? Nothing, right?
Like Mr Right (you couldn't even get that name right! Your mental state shows.) said that religious texts are compilation of fables. I add that in the case of islamic texts, the compilation id of moronic fables and there are people to believe those and practice. I wonder when you would get into your dead relative's grave to do what Mo' did to the body of his dead aunt. Thereafter, scream Allahu Akbar.
written by Archpagan , September 12, 2011
'You all need to learn to accept each other as equals, as living breathing people with hopes and dreams for a better world. Why is there so much hatred because of foolish religion?'
Your above comments can be called 'idiotic pacifism.' You will lose your head if you preach such doctrine in a Muslim country. I think you are not educated enough to understand Dwito's above comment posted to you. To a Muslim there can be no God but Allah, No correct religion but Islam. Do you respect such ideology?
Your above comments can be called 'idiotic pacifism.' You will lose your head if you preach such doctrine in a Muslim country. I think you are not educated enough to understand Dwito's above comment posted to you. To a Muslim there can be no God but Allah, No correct religion but Islam. Do you respect such ideology?
written by Yibel , September 12, 2011
Well, I am discussing it now! I did not have to "search" for this information and what part of:
"Proclaim liberty throughout the land to ALL its inhabitants" is so hard for you to understand? Apparently you are able to read, and cut and paste. So read (although understanding is an entirely different thing) the whole of Leviticus 25. And while you are at it, read all of Leviticus and the Ten Commandments. This is called the Law of YHVH (YAH).
There is no such thing as "Christian shari'ah."
Shari'ah means Law of Ah. Ah is a totally different god than YHVH, with totally different rules of conduct. Muhammad broke every one of the Ten Commandments and a bunch of the 613 laws of Leviticus as well. He invented a political/pseudo-religion that allowed Him to proclaim Himself as a god equal to His Al-Ah (Holy Ah). Whenever He (Muhammad) wanted something, CONVENIENTLY, His god Al-Ah granted His wish with a new revelation. Want your son's wife? You got it! Want to Murder and Steal because you Covet your neighbors possessions? Want to burn down fruit bearing trees in order to Murder and Steal in order to get rich? Again NO problem! Here’s a special new revelation just in the nick of time! Want to rape the widows of Your pillaging campaign, have sex with children, enslave women and children, rape slave women? Well, have at it! They exist only for Your benefit!!!
“Ye shall NOT therefore oppress one another: but thou shalt fear thy G-d, for I AM (YAH) the Lord your G-d.” Lev 25:17
"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." - Y'shua (YAH Shua, translated means YAH saves)
"Proclaim liberty throughout the land to ALL its inhabitants" is so hard for you to understand? Apparently you are able to read, and cut and paste. So read (although understanding is an entirely different thing) the whole of Leviticus 25. And while you are at it, read all of Leviticus and the Ten Commandments. This is called the Law of YHVH (YAH).
There is no such thing as "Christian shari'ah."
Shari'ah means Law of Ah. Ah is a totally different god than YHVH, with totally different rules of conduct. Muhammad broke every one of the Ten Commandments and a bunch of the 613 laws of Leviticus as well. He invented a political/pseudo-religion that allowed Him to proclaim Himself as a god equal to His Al-Ah (Holy Ah). Whenever He (Muhammad) wanted something, CONVENIENTLY, His god Al-Ah granted His wish with a new revelation. Want your son's wife? You got it! Want to Murder and Steal because you Covet your neighbors possessions? Want to burn down fruit bearing trees in order to Murder and Steal in order to get rich? Again NO problem! Here’s a special new revelation just in the nick of time! Want to rape the widows of Your pillaging campaign, have sex with children, enslave women and children, rape slave women? Well, have at it! They exist only for Your benefit!!!
“Ye shall NOT therefore oppress one another: but thou shalt fear thy G-d, for I AM (YAH) the Lord your G-d.” Lev 25:17
"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." - Y'shua (YAH Shua, translated means YAH saves)
written by duh_swami , September 12, 2011
Mr Right sez... Malem, if you have the inability to do so then maybe I can guide you.
Malman...Where are you...This is no time to take a nap...Mr Right is offering to guide you...You should take him up on it, Allah has been doing a lousy job of guiding you...Mr Right will set you straight...
Malman...Where are you...This is no time to take a nap...Mr Right is offering to guide you...You should take him up on it, Allah has been doing a lousy job of guiding you...Mr Right will set you straight...
written by Mr. Right , September 12, 2011
I respect Muslims belief in their religion. What I do not respect is that many Muslims insist that everyone believe as they do. Your statement "you will lose your head" If I "preach such doctrine in a Muslim country" proves my point. Why do people hate and want to kill based on belief in one deity or another? Such hatred is pathetic. Apparently these "Muslim countries" are terrified by people that have the ability to possess free thought. I really feel pity for those that are afraid of free thought. I wish everyone long, happy and peaceful lives. If me wishing this upon you is "idiotic pacifism", then I feel sorry for you.
written by Mozlem , September 13, 2011
Allah is afraid of stones for example the worlds largest buddhist statues lived in peace for many centuries in Afganistan. One taliban came to power they were scared from the resting stones. Out of fear from stones they decided to blast them to smithreens and the result is before us.
No Bamiyan buddha statues. Muslims are scared from people as well as stones.
No Bamiyan buddha statues. Muslims are scared from people as well as stones.
written by duh_swami , September 13, 2011
I respect Muslims belief in their religion.
Maybe, but do you also respect the Quran? Do you respect the despicable Mohammad? Do you respect jihad? How about sharia? Islamic hegemony and terrorism? These are all canonized into the institutionalized religion...In an institution, it is a plus and even noble to have compassion and sympathy for the poor unfortunates confined there...But when one of them is hanging off your arm by his teeth, you have to overcome your compassion and act...
In other words, you have to get real...At what point do you get real about Islam?
I would guess, and it's only guess, that you have not read much about Islam and what makes it tick...While you are not wrong with your philosophies, they only appeal to rational people...Muslims when it comes to Islam, are not rational...They don't think like you do, and will not be appeased by your soft position...
Maybe, but do you also respect the Quran? Do you respect the despicable Mohammad? Do you respect jihad? How about sharia? Islamic hegemony and terrorism? These are all canonized into the institutionalized religion...In an institution, it is a plus and even noble to have compassion and sympathy for the poor unfortunates confined there...But when one of them is hanging off your arm by his teeth, you have to overcome your compassion and act...
In other words, you have to get real...At what point do you get real about Islam?
I would guess, and it's only guess, that you have not read much about Islam and what makes it tick...While you are not wrong with your philosophies, they only appeal to rational people...Muslims when it comes to Islam, are not rational...They don't think like you do, and will not be appeased by your soft position...
written by Dwito , September 13, 2011
Did you read yibel's last revelation?
"Shari'ah means Law of Ah. Ah is a totally different god than YHVH, with totally different rules of conduct. Muhammad broke every one of the Ten Commandments and a bunch of the 613 laws of Leviticus as well. He invented a political/pseudo-religion that allowed Him to proclaim Himself as a god equal to His Al-Ah (Holy Ah). Whenever He (Muhammad) wanted something, CONVENIENTLY, His god Al-Ah granted His wish with a new revelation. Want your son's wife? You got it! Want to Murder and Steal because you Covet your neighbors possessions? Want to burn down fruit bearing trees in order to Murder and Steal in order to get rich? Again NO problem! Here’s a special new revelation just in the nick of time! Want to rape the widows of Your pillaging campaign, have sex with children, enslave women and children, rape slave women? Well, have at it! They exist only for Your benefit!!!"
Contrary to my style I can't but put the total quote of him. Do you remember in our introductory communications I told that if we think deeply, Quran is a sort of Mo's biography! You desisted. My reply was to indicate future discussions. I don't tell the time has even came yet. but it's coming.
Waiting for your view.
"Shari'ah means Law of Ah. Ah is a totally different god than YHVH, with totally different rules of conduct. Muhammad broke every one of the Ten Commandments and a bunch of the 613 laws of Leviticus as well. He invented a political/pseudo-religion that allowed Him to proclaim Himself as a god equal to His Al-Ah (Holy Ah). Whenever He (Muhammad) wanted something, CONVENIENTLY, His god Al-Ah granted His wish with a new revelation. Want your son's wife? You got it! Want to Murder and Steal because you Covet your neighbors possessions? Want to burn down fruit bearing trees in order to Murder and Steal in order to get rich? Again NO problem! Here’s a special new revelation just in the nick of time! Want to rape the widows of Your pillaging campaign, have sex with children, enslave women and children, rape slave women? Well, have at it! They exist only for Your benefit!!!"
Contrary to my style I can't but put the total quote of him. Do you remember in our introductory communications I told that if we think deeply, Quran is a sort of Mo's biography! You desisted. My reply was to indicate future discussions. I don't tell the time has even came yet. but it's coming.
Waiting for your view.
written by lw1 , September 13, 2011
'Prophet' Mohammad told lies to get power and fulfil his sexual urges. Muslims who are slaves to Islam use a lot of twisted logic and taqqiya (lies) to try to give different meaning to evil, hateful and threatening suras.
To cover one lie , Muslims are having to tell many lies.
'Prophet' Mohammad corrupted the Bible and lied that Jesus did not die on the Cross.
More than 60% of Quran is hatred and threats.
To cover one lie , Muslims are having to tell many lies.
'Prophet' Mohammad corrupted the Bible and lied that Jesus did not die on the Cross.
More than 60% of Quran is hatred and threats.
written by Reed Wilson. , September 13, 2011
Dwito. My post for you is detained. They will review.
Dwito I visit the site primarily for conveying Quran.
My interest in Christianity is Quran related. I dont involve much.
Dwito I visit the site primarily for conveying Quran.
My interest in Christianity is Quran related. I dont involve much.
written by Dwito , September 13, 2011
My interest in Christianity is Quran related. I dont involve much.
That's good. It will help you to cheat yourself by being ignorant of the forgery of mo.
I visit the site primarily for conveying Quran.
The word Conveying is double standard. Everyone here conveying Quran. The site is meant for that purpose. Editor has stated this declaration overtly, and there's no confusion about it.
The question is from which perspective you are conveying. Did you get what i mean?
That's good. It will help you to cheat yourself by being ignorant of the forgery of mo.
I visit the site primarily for conveying Quran.
The word Conveying is double standard. Everyone here conveying Quran. The site is meant for that purpose. Editor has stated this declaration overtly, and there's no confusion about it.
The question is from which perspective you are conveying. Did you get what i mean?
written by lw1 , September 14, 2011
You haven't given a reply to my 2nd post of 9/9/11 in the article 'Muslim Wife-beating .....'of 3/9/11.
Why has your Allah not given equal right to women to punish husbands who misbehave?
Why has your Allah not given equal right to women to punish husbands who misbehave?
written by Reed Wilson. , September 14, 2011
Dwito. "The word Conveying is double standard."
Can dictionary help?
Can dictionary help?
written by Dwito , September 15, 2011
Can dictionary help?
You may better consult the thesaurus i wrote above in the same post.
You may better consult the thesaurus i wrote above in the same post.
written by Yibel , September 15, 2011
and answere this riddle for us?
"Why has your Allah not given equal right to women to punish husbands who misbehave? "
Is it because men can do no wrong? Like the time when Muhammad was found by his wife Hafsah with her Coptic slave woman after he had sent Hafsah to visit her father just so he could have his way with the maid while she was gone. And then, when he was found out, Muhammad threatened to divorce his wives when they complained about his underhanded sneakiness.
And al-Ah said: "Prophet, why do you prohibit that which Al-Ah has made lawful for you (that is, sex with slave women), by seeking to please your wives (by denying yourself this pleasure which We, Mo/al-Ah have granted you)?" Divorce them and We, al-Ah , will give you "better wives, submissive to We (Mo/al-Ah) and full of faith, obedient, penitent, devout, and given to fasting: both formerly wedded and virgins." (Quran 66:1-5) What a god! Grants Mo's every wish. Gets him out of every jam. What a guy!!
And al-Ah said, or was it Mo? (Get those two mixed up all the time) :
"He created seven heavens, one above the other. You will not see a flaw in the Merciful's creation. Turn up your eyes: can you detect a single crack?" ...We have adorned the lowest heaven with lamps and missles to pelt the devils with. (Q. 67:3-5)
First it's He, then it's We; even Mo had trouble keeping them straight!!
But, I looked up, and sure enough, there were no cracks in the sky that I could see. So the Glorious Quran must know what it's talking about. Isn't that right, Reed?
"Why has your Allah not given equal right to women to punish husbands who misbehave? "
Is it because men can do no wrong? Like the time when Muhammad was found by his wife Hafsah with her Coptic slave woman after he had sent Hafsah to visit her father just so he could have his way with the maid while she was gone. And then, when he was found out, Muhammad threatened to divorce his wives when they complained about his underhanded sneakiness.
And al-Ah said: "Prophet, why do you prohibit that which Al-Ah has made lawful for you (that is, sex with slave women), by seeking to please your wives (by denying yourself this pleasure which We, Mo/al-Ah have granted you)?" Divorce them and We, al-Ah , will give you "better wives, submissive to We (Mo/al-Ah) and full of faith, obedient, penitent, devout, and given to fasting: both formerly wedded and virgins." (Quran 66:1-5) What a god! Grants Mo's every wish. Gets him out of every jam. What a guy!!
And al-Ah said, or was it Mo? (Get those two mixed up all the time) :
"He created seven heavens, one above the other. You will not see a flaw in the Merciful's creation. Turn up your eyes: can you detect a single crack?" ...We have adorned the lowest heaven with lamps and missles to pelt the devils with. (Q. 67:3-5)
First it's He, then it's We; even Mo had trouble keeping them straight!!
But, I looked up, and sure enough, there were no cracks in the sky that I could see. So the Glorious Quran must know what it's talking about. Isn't that right, Reed?
written by Jay , September 16, 2011
The fact of the matter is that Mohammed owned and traded slaves.Muhammad was personally responsible for enslaving people that were once free.Muhammad was a slave master.Muhammad raped female slaves.
Please show me where Jesus committed even one of Muhammad's atrocities.
Please show me where Jesus committed even one of Muhammad's atrocities.
written by Reed Wilson. , September 16, 2011
Jay. Which Jesus? Did you mean Jesus Christ by any chance? No never. He did not rape women and all sorts which Muhammad of Hadis did. That Muhammad is a fictitious character. Whereas Jesus Christ is a reality.
Why do you need to verify?
Why do you need to verify?
written by duh_swami , September 16, 2011
That Muhammad is a fictitious character.
That is blasphemy in polite Islamic society...If you say that out loud in Pakistan you will be the featured guest in a sharia court and possibly killed...You insistence that there is no such thing as sharia, won't help you with Pakistan's idea of sharia...You probably would not be welcome in Iran or Saudi either, maybe you can get away with blasphemy in Yemen if you don't talk to loud...Never say anything like that while in Somalia...Somali jihadist like sharia a lot...
That is blasphemy in polite Islamic society...If you say that out loud in Pakistan you will be the featured guest in a sharia court and possibly killed...You insistence that there is no such thing as sharia, won't help you with Pakistan's idea of sharia...You probably would not be welcome in Iran or Saudi either, maybe you can get away with blasphemy in Yemen if you don't talk to loud...Never say anything like that while in Somalia...Somali jihadist like sharia a lot...
written by Reed Wilson. , September 17, 2011
duh_swami.Thank you. You are right it is very risky in all those countries. For that matter their own people are not.
Malaysia and Maldives are safe heaven among so called muslim dominated counties.
That is blasphemy in polite Islamic society...If you say that out loud in Pakistan you will be the featured guest in a sharia court and possibly killed...You insistence that there is no such thing as sharia, won't help you with Pakistan's idea of sharia...You probably would not be welcome in Iran or Saudi either, maybe you can get away with blasphemy in Yemen if you don't talk to loud...Never say anything like that while in Somalia...Somali jihadist like sharia a lot...
Malaysia and Maldives are safe heaven among so called muslim dominated counties.
That is blasphemy in polite Islamic society...If you say that out loud in Pakistan you will be the featured guest in a sharia court and possibly killed...You insistence that there is no such thing as sharia, won't help you with Pakistan's idea of sharia...You probably would not be welcome in Iran or Saudi either, maybe you can get away with blasphemy in Yemen if you don't talk to loud...Never say anything like that while in Somalia...Somali jihadist like sharia a lot...
written by duh_swami , September 18, 2011
Malaysia and Maldives are safe heaven among so called muslim dominated counties.
That can change in a New York second...When the pious take over the secular, all bets are off...
That can change in a New York second...When the pious take over the secular, all bets are off...
written by Dwito , September 18, 2011
Reed, You are always so smart to Duh. What about Yibel's term?
written by Reed Wilson. , September 18, 2011
Dwito. You write “Reed, you are always so smart to Duh. What about Yibel's term?
Because he understands. He would never ask hadis based questions and would discourage others when they do so.
Yibel believes that Jesus died for sins of entire mankind on cross. Duh-swami considers himself answerable for his sins, to himself if not to Allah.
The question of Yibel is not in proper form. Espouses are not licensed to punish each other.
Yibel. "He created seven heavens, one above the other. You will not see a flaw in the Merciful’s creation. Turn up your eyes: can you detect a single crack?" ...We have adorned the lowest heaven with lamps and missiles to pelt the devils with. (Q. 67:3-5)
‘Heavens’ is not correct translation of the Arabic word samawaat. ‘Skies’ is closer. Science has yet to report the closest sky. It is not denied either. Maybe in your lifetime, if not in my, we would know about skies.
Because he understands. He would never ask hadis based questions and would discourage others when they do so.
Yibel believes that Jesus died for sins of entire mankind on cross. Duh-swami considers himself answerable for his sins, to himself if not to Allah.
The question of Yibel is not in proper form. Espouses are not licensed to punish each other.
Yibel. "He created seven heavens, one above the other. You will not see a flaw in the Merciful’s creation. Turn up your eyes: can you detect a single crack?" ...We have adorned the lowest heaven with lamps and missiles to pelt the devils with. (Q. 67:3-5)
‘Heavens’ is not correct translation of the Arabic word samawaat. ‘Skies’ is closer. Science has yet to report the closest sky. It is not denied either. Maybe in your lifetime, if not in my, we would know about skies.
written by Dwito , September 18, 2011
Science has yet to report the closest sky.
Are you meaning environmental sky?
Are you meaning environmental sky?
written by duh_swami , September 18, 2011
Duh-swami considers himself answerable for his sins, to himself if not to Allah.'
But I don't have any sins to report...I don't accept the dogma of sin, so I am exempt...Sin is for sinners...Since I am not a sinner, I can't have any sin...There are religious types who insist that I am a sinner anyway...But what do they know? They get all their information from a book that has no author, and fell out of the sky...probably one of those skies Reed says science has not yet discovered...Franz Barton said that there are 72 skies, or zones around the Earth, like the the layers in an onion...Each zone has its own hierarchy of entities ranging from high and powerful angel types, kings queens princes to demons and malevolent spirits...etc...Each zone also has it's own particular functions...
Maybe some day science will discover these sky zones that Allah forgot to mention...
But I don't have any sins to report...I don't accept the dogma of sin, so I am exempt...Sin is for sinners...Since I am not a sinner, I can't have any sin...There are religious types who insist that I am a sinner anyway...But what do they know? They get all their information from a book that has no author, and fell out of the sky...probably one of those skies Reed says science has not yet discovered...Franz Barton said that there are 72 skies, or zones around the Earth, like the the layers in an onion...Each zone has its own hierarchy of entities ranging from high and powerful angel types, kings queens princes to demons and malevolent spirits...etc...Each zone also has it's own particular functions...
Maybe some day science will discover these sky zones that Allah forgot to mention...
written by fineliving56 , September 18, 2011
for once I agree with Reed …halaluya
The correct translation :
Sammawat is skies …Samah is one sky
Al Jannat used as heavens and it refers to lush Gardens here on earth …
Jannah is one heaven.
The word heavens, I noticed, only used by people who converted to Islam because it was used as sky in their religion Book …Arabes and their Arabic Quran use sky and heavens as different words.
It is true they look up to sky to pray ..the reason is because they think Allah resides some where on top suite of the seven floors/ layers building called skies …they are not looking up to heavens to pry .
It is not clear in Q which floor of the building [skies] is the heavens[jannat adnin ]
But the first sky could be peeled.. Q/81/11 . …...like you peel an orange …that is my image not in Q.
what is strange …Quran says in one part ''one Heaven[al jannah 81/13''
and other parts many heavens [al Jannat adnin 98/8]
I wonder which is it?
One heaven or manny heavens ?
Either Allah is forgetful or cant make up its mind …And IT wonders, why people are so confused.!
The correct translation :
Sammawat is skies …Samah is one sky
Al Jannat used as heavens and it refers to lush Gardens here on earth …
Jannah is one heaven.
The word heavens, I noticed, only used by people who converted to Islam because it was used as sky in their religion Book …Arabes and their Arabic Quran use sky and heavens as different words.
It is true they look up to sky to pray ..the reason is because they think Allah resides some where on top suite of the seven floors/ layers building called skies …they are not looking up to heavens to pry .
It is not clear in Q which floor of the building [skies] is the heavens[jannat adnin ]
But the first sky could be peeled.. Q/81/11 . …...like you peel an orange …that is my image not in Q.
what is strange …Quran says in one part ''one Heaven[al jannah 81/13''
and other parts many heavens [al Jannat adnin 98/8]
I wonder which is it?
One heaven or manny heavens ?
Either Allah is forgetful or cant make up its mind …And IT wonders, why people are so confused.!
written by Reed Wilson. , September 18, 2011
duh-swami. " Franz Barton said that there are 72 skies, or zones".
That is different Sir. That is not solid body. That is zone in domain of our planet.
There is one but he is Bardon and not Barton. He is not a scientist.
Will you kindly give citation of F. Barton?
That is different Sir. That is not solid body. That is zone in domain of our planet.
There is one but he is Bardon and not Barton. He is not a scientist.
Will you kindly give citation of F. Barton?
written by Mozlem , September 18, 2011
Islamic marketing
Convince = Tell all sort of stories about Quran is best amongst all work of jinns and humans
Confuse = Tell heaven and heavens and make some more silly mistakes. tell to clean by mud, make them pray 5 times
Corrupt = Allow 4 wives, allow slaves, allow wife beating and allow pedophilia
And if still doesnt work then declare the crime of treason and execute. The cult works fine. Lots of carrots and sticks but for men. No place for women apart from the tilth field that is a baby factory. Numbers sick or retarded doesnt matter.
Convince = Tell all sort of stories about Quran is best amongst all work of jinns and humans
Confuse = Tell heaven and heavens and make some more silly mistakes. tell to clean by mud, make them pray 5 times
Corrupt = Allow 4 wives, allow slaves, allow wife beating and allow pedophilia
And if still doesnt work then declare the crime of treason and execute. The cult works fine. Lots of carrots and sticks but for men. No place for women apart from the tilth field that is a baby factory. Numbers sick or retarded doesnt matter.
written by Malem , September 18, 2011
Islam is not the only religion to describe heaven in several layers or levels.
written by Yibel , September 19, 2011
How do you know that I would never ask an ahadith-based question, or that I would discourage others when they do so? In my opinion, Islam is nothing more than a cult (based on the personality of one very flawed individual with a political/military agenda, all tossed together with some self-hypnotic ritual chanting, pre-Islamic pagan cultic practices, and a sleep deprivation technique designed to induce a state of perpetual rage and dementia. As far as I am concerned, ALL questions concerning Islam and its entire belief system are fair game!!
As for Y'shua (Jesus/Issa) "dying for sins of entire mankind," he died for his friends,
those who believe in YHVH. You do know that the Quran says that Issa did not die, but that Al-Ah substituted someone else who looked just like him to die instead? So Issa never died on the cross for anyone's sins, according to Islam. Q.4:157-158
What kind of a Muslim are you, if you don't know that?
And what is this nonsense about skies? In English, the word "sky" refers to the atmosphere above the ground, the area where clouds form, which extends up to the ozone layer. The word "heavens" refers to the region beyond that where the sun, moon, planets, meteors, comets, asteroids, and stars are located.
"He created seven SKIES, one above the other." Are you saying that the Quran is stating that these heavenly bodies are somehow inside the earth's atmosphere?
And what about these passages:
"then,ascending to the sky, He fashioned it into seven heavens." Q. 2:29
"We have created seven Al-Jalalayn (literally highways) above you;" Q. 23:17
"Say: 'Who is the Lord of the seven heavens, and of the Glorious Throne?'" Q.23:86
"It is Al-Ah who has created seven heavens, and earths as many."Q. 65:12
Note: Al-Ah created seven earths, as well as seven skies/heavens/highways. So where are these seven earths? And did Muhammad go to Seven SKIES on his Night Journey? (Quran Al-Isra 17)
And what does "Espouses are not licensed to punish each other" mean?
As for Y'shua (Jesus/Issa) "dying for sins of entire mankind," he died for his friends,
those who believe in YHVH. You do know that the Quran says that Issa did not die, but that Al-Ah substituted someone else who looked just like him to die instead? So Issa never died on the cross for anyone's sins, according to Islam. Q.4:157-158
What kind of a Muslim are you, if you don't know that?
And what is this nonsense about skies? In English, the word "sky" refers to the atmosphere above the ground, the area where clouds form, which extends up to the ozone layer. The word "heavens" refers to the region beyond that where the sun, moon, planets, meteors, comets, asteroids, and stars are located.
"He created seven SKIES, one above the other." Are you saying that the Quran is stating that these heavenly bodies are somehow inside the earth's atmosphere?
And what about these passages:
"then,ascending to the sky, He fashioned it into seven heavens." Q. 2:29
"We have created seven Al-Jalalayn (literally highways) above you;" Q. 23:17
"Say: 'Who is the Lord of the seven heavens, and of the Glorious Throne?'" Q.23:86
"It is Al-Ah who has created seven heavens, and earths as many."Q. 65:12
Note: Al-Ah created seven earths, as well as seven skies/heavens/highways. So where are these seven earths? And did Muhammad go to Seven SKIES on his Night Journey? (Quran Al-Isra 17)
And what does "Espouses are not licensed to punish each other" mean?
written by duh_swami , September 19, 2011
Islam is not the only religion to describe heaven in several layers or levels.
You finally said something that's more or less true...Bells are ringing...
But it is not 'Heaven' that is multi layered it it the 'Heavens' with an S...All this concept does is acknowledge that there are various different kinds of energies in the 'Heavens', and seeks to classify them as to type and function...According to various literature there are beings residing on those levels, some are human, and some are not...But I don't want to over tax your brain with details...You wouldn't understand them anyway...But you are right on the basis that more than one religion accepts the layered heaven theory...
You finally said something that's more or less true...Bells are ringing...
But it is not 'Heaven' that is multi layered it it the 'Heavens' with an S...All this concept does is acknowledge that there are various different kinds of energies in the 'Heavens', and seeks to classify them as to type and function...According to various literature there are beings residing on those levels, some are human, and some are not...But I don't want to over tax your brain with details...You wouldn't understand them anyway...But you are right on the basis that more than one religion accepts the layered heaven theory...
written by fineliving56 , September 19, 2011
In all the quotes from Arabic Quran, that I have read in the previous posts, the word *Samah and Samawat* was used to refer to SKY,SKIES never to refer to Heaven or heavens.
HEAVEN, CAN NOT BE USED IN PLACE of SKY IN ARABIC/QURAN
It is only English translations and English translators that some times make that mistakes and use these in the place of each other and cause confusion.
Arabic Q: 2/29-23/17/86-65/12 in all the word Samah/skiy or Samawat/skies or 7 Taraik /highways, was used not *heaven/heavens*.
BTW….I was not saying that other religions did not mentions layers of sky …I was saying, other religions use The word heavens to describe the layers of skies …are we done with that now?
THAT is not, what is important.
What is important ….
WHY ALLAH DOES NOT KNOW ITS CREATION VERY WELL/
Did Allah create ONE heaven or mannnnnnnny heavenS ?
It can't be both !
When one owns A house, one do not say I own houseS….
well.. unless, one is lying for bragging purposes.
HEAVEN, CAN NOT BE USED IN PLACE of SKY IN ARABIC/QURAN
It is only English translations and English translators that some times make that mistakes and use these in the place of each other and cause confusion.
Arabic Q: 2/29-23/17/86-65/12 in all the word Samah/skiy or Samawat/skies or 7 Taraik /highways, was used not *heaven/heavens*.
BTW….I was not saying that other religions did not mentions layers of sky …I was saying, other religions use The word heavens to describe the layers of skies …are we done with that now?
THAT is not, what is important.
What is important ….
WHY ALLAH DOES NOT KNOW ITS CREATION VERY WELL/
Did Allah create ONE heaven or mannnnnnnny heavenS ?
It can't be both !
When one owns A house, one do not say I own houseS….
well.. unless, one is lying for bragging purposes.
written by Reed Wilson. , September 19, 2011
Yibel "How do you know that I would never ask an ahadith-based question, or that I would discourage others when they do so?
I did not say that. I am not asking to take up Islam.
I did not say that. I am not asking to take up Islam.
written by duh_swami , September 20, 2011
Did Allah create ONE heaven or mannnnnnnny heavenS ?
There seems to be (according to literature) one Heaven but it has many parts...Humans have tried to identify those parts, and any entities there, and give them names and attributes...
So we have Hell, and angels and demons and Jinn and Satan and a host of other out of this world entities...like kings and queens of the elements...The Tarot cards represent that, and modern playing cards as well...Accordingly there are four elements air, fire, water and earth...Each of those has been broken down into sub types for identification purposes...Some religious or magical people try to contact entities on these various levels...Do they actually do that? I don't know, but some claim that they do...I don't know if any of this is true, but it is in various literature's taken seriously by some people...I only subscribe to the idea that the human mind is capable of doing things that the average mind can't understand...In order to be capable the mind first has to realize that it is, and then find a way or technique to express it...
For anyone possessing sensitivity and/or compassion, love is the way...Those without can have Islam or politics...
There seems to be (according to literature) one Heaven but it has many parts...Humans have tried to identify those parts, and any entities there, and give them names and attributes...
So we have Hell, and angels and demons and Jinn and Satan and a host of other out of this world entities...like kings and queens of the elements...The Tarot cards represent that, and modern playing cards as well...Accordingly there are four elements air, fire, water and earth...Each of those has been broken down into sub types for identification purposes...Some religious or magical people try to contact entities on these various levels...Do they actually do that? I don't know, but some claim that they do...I don't know if any of this is true, but it is in various literature's taken seriously by some people...I only subscribe to the idea that the human mind is capable of doing things that the average mind can't understand...In order to be capable the mind first has to realize that it is, and then find a way or technique to express it...
For anyone possessing sensitivity and/or compassion, love is the way...Those without can have Islam or politics...
written by Dwito , September 20, 2011
Yibel "How do you know that I would never ask an ahadith-based question, or that I would discourage others when they do so?
I did not say that. I am not asking to take up Islam.
So who wrote this in your name on 18th above? - "Because he understands. He would never ask hadis based questions and would discourage others when they do so"
And where is your answer against my question, that Yibel explained?
I did not say that. I am not asking to take up Islam.
So who wrote this in your name on 18th above? - "Because he understands. He would never ask hadis based questions and would discourage others when they do so"
And where is your answer against my question, that Yibel explained?
written by fineliving56 , September 20, 2011
One Heaven or different parts of heavens , one Jahannam, many hells ..no mater ..I do not believe in any of them ..
It is just, man made to fool Humans into doing things, here on earth, that they do not want to do. There for,this higher being promises to give people , humanistic rewords that caters to them, for all kind of needs ,carnal,hunger,thirst and entreatments.
Why would a higher being who created this majestic universes, would promise little spicks of male humans, young, virgin little girls and boys …while if you ask all normal men …..they will hate the very idea of it.
And Why promise, rivers of water under shady gardens with no burring sun, when some Muslims live in places that buried in Snow or rain with no sun ever all their lives and the idea of some sun to these people IS HEAVEN… but no …..
Apparently this Higher being, only caters to people in hot scorching lands…not once, snow was, mentioned, even when snow covers, thousand of miles on earth ….just non sense.
I do not believe in other religions descriptions for Heaven either …it is not the same in Islam but it is still not believable.
Yes, I do believe the humen mind is magnificent and it is capable of achieving higher quality of understanding …I have heard that even the gifted among us are using only 15% of what their mind could really do.
The trick is How to figure out the way to do it…I believe we will ..change is happening …if we only could let go of fairy tales of religions and use our mind to advance and prosper….
What I do not grasp, is how using love makes us advance in achieving better understanding and expression?
btw …. a question I have been, asked, after I left Islam :
What I my now?….what do I believe in?
I say, no man MADE religions,….. but THAT does not mean I am not spiritual
I believe in Humanity with and without its failings…….well …some times :-)
It is just, man made to fool Humans into doing things, here on earth, that they do not want to do. There for,this higher being promises to give people , humanistic rewords that caters to them, for all kind of needs ,carnal,hunger,thirst and entreatments.
Why would a higher being who created this majestic universes, would promise little spicks of male humans, young, virgin little girls and boys …while if you ask all normal men …..they will hate the very idea of it.
And Why promise, rivers of water under shady gardens with no burring sun, when some Muslims live in places that buried in Snow or rain with no sun ever all their lives and the idea of some sun to these people IS HEAVEN… but no …..
Apparently this Higher being, only caters to people in hot scorching lands…not once, snow was, mentioned, even when snow covers, thousand of miles on earth ….just non sense.
I do not believe in other religions descriptions for Heaven either …it is not the same in Islam but it is still not believable.
Yes, I do believe the humen mind is magnificent and it is capable of achieving higher quality of understanding …I have heard that even the gifted among us are using only 15% of what their mind could really do.
The trick is How to figure out the way to do it…I believe we will ..change is happening …if we only could let go of fairy tales of religions and use our mind to advance and prosper….
What I do not grasp, is how using love makes us advance in achieving better understanding and expression?
btw …. a question I have been, asked, after I left Islam :
What I my now?….what do I believe in?
I say, no man MADE religions,….. but THAT does not mean I am not spiritual
I believe in Humanity with and without its failings…….well …some times :-)
written by duh_swami , September 21, 2011
many hells ..no mater ..I do not believe in any of them ..
It is just, man made to fool Humans into doing things, here on earth, that they do not want to do.
There are two way of looking at that...Scientific inquiry and research, or grasping at these ideas for personal gain...
We already know that we as individuals have various levels of consciousness...We use them every day, even in sleep...The question for the mind scientist is, are there any more than commonly known, and if so what are they, and what use are they? And if they exist, how can we turn them on? There has been a lot of research into this by Doctor scientists, religious and magically prone people, and many people not in those categories...One of the mental abilities most overlooked by the public, but known to practitioners, is the imagination...Most people think the imagination should be ignored, while using it every day just the same...The imagination is not an ability by accident, it is one of the most powerful tools we have...With that we can visualize and create...Is there a limit to this? Is it possible to discover other 'heavens' by means of this ability? There are numerous people who believe so, and some claim personal experience...are these other 'Heavens' or levels of existence real? That's what they claim... Only a person of evil disposition, such as Mohammad, try to control others by making false claims based on the product of their imaginations...Actually all religions do this which is one reason I have a low opinion of them, especially Islam...
There have been hundreds of books written on the power of imagination and love...I can't condense them all into an internet post...The idea of healing by means of love is known, I didn't make it up... An uplifting movie, on this topic you might like if you can rent and play it, (or it might be available free on the net) is Ellen Burstyns, "Resurrection" (1980)...She won an academy award for her performance...The final scene is absolutely beautiful...If you see it, you will know what I mean...
It is just, man made to fool Humans into doing things, here on earth, that they do not want to do.
There are two way of looking at that...Scientific inquiry and research, or grasping at these ideas for personal gain...
We already know that we as individuals have various levels of consciousness...We use them every day, even in sleep...The question for the mind scientist is, are there any more than commonly known, and if so what are they, and what use are they? And if they exist, how can we turn them on? There has been a lot of research into this by Doctor scientists, religious and magically prone people, and many people not in those categories...One of the mental abilities most overlooked by the public, but known to practitioners, is the imagination...Most people think the imagination should be ignored, while using it every day just the same...The imagination is not an ability by accident, it is one of the most powerful tools we have...With that we can visualize and create...Is there a limit to this? Is it possible to discover other 'heavens' by means of this ability? There are numerous people who believe so, and some claim personal experience...are these other 'Heavens' or levels of existence real? That's what they claim... Only a person of evil disposition, such as Mohammad, try to control others by making false claims based on the product of their imaginations...Actually all religions do this which is one reason I have a low opinion of them, especially Islam...
There have been hundreds of books written on the power of imagination and love...I can't condense them all into an internet post...The idea of healing by means of love is known, I didn't make it up... An uplifting movie, on this topic you might like if you can rent and play it, (or it might be available free on the net) is Ellen Burstyns, "Resurrection" (1980)...She won an academy award for her performance...The final scene is absolutely beautiful...If you see it, you will know what I mean...
written by fineliving56 , September 21, 2011
Oh no ….I never thought you would make it up ..its just I did not understand how it works…I am sure it is fascinating.
When it comes to imagination, that is the story of my life,I live with it and for it …without it, life will always seem bland and gray …
It is the place where vibrant color forms and shapes without having to left a finger …
A problem I have, is to live in the moment where I am..some times that is not important.
These magical Quality we possess transcend beyond this life and its short comings and disappointments…..
What is wonderful about it …no one has the ability to take away form us …it live in a place where no one could reach to control …they could control the abject …but no one could control ..unseen …unique ..wonder we only could see, that lives behind sight .
My imagination forms what I do.
I am sorry when I start it is hard to stop talking about it
Thanks, for the move suggestion …I think I have heard of it but I never watched it ….I love beautiful endings.
When it comes to imagination, that is the story of my life,I live with it and for it …without it, life will always seem bland and gray …
It is the place where vibrant color forms and shapes without having to left a finger …
A problem I have, is to live in the moment where I am..some times that is not important.
These magical Quality we possess transcend beyond this life and its short comings and disappointments…..
What is wonderful about it …no one has the ability to take away form us …it live in a place where no one could reach to control …they could control the abject …but no one could control ..unseen …unique ..wonder we only could see, that lives behind sight .
My imagination forms what I do.
I am sorry when I start it is hard to stop talking about it
Thanks, for the move suggestion …I think I have heard of it but I never watched it ….I love beautiful endings.
written by fineliving56 , September 21, 2011
I wrote a post back talking of wonders of imagination
but the Gods of internet took it some where to have some time off for short vacation.
I hope it comes back to work.
but the Gods of internet took it some where to have some time off for short vacation.
I hope it comes back to work.
written by duh_swami , September 22, 2011
'When it comes to imagination, that is the story of my life...'
You already possess the tools...A good imagination and a good heart...'They can lock up your body, but they can't lock up your mind', unless you permit it...This is how Islam and other religions lock up the mind...by permission...'Out of the mud a lotus grows', the clever people are the mud and you are the lotus...Beauty emerging from ugly...Made possible by a good and strong imagination, and a good heart... When I mention healing at a distance by projected love, I was just using that as an example of possibilities that are not available to the submitter, but is available for a good heart and imagination...But it is only one example of many examples...You are already practicing some of them...
You already possess the tools...A good imagination and a good heart...'They can lock up your body, but they can't lock up your mind', unless you permit it...This is how Islam and other religions lock up the mind...by permission...'Out of the mud a lotus grows', the clever people are the mud and you are the lotus...Beauty emerging from ugly...Made possible by a good and strong imagination, and a good heart... When I mention healing at a distance by projected love, I was just using that as an example of possibilities that are not available to the submitter, but is available for a good heart and imagination...But it is only one example of many examples...You are already practicing some of them...
written by fineliving56 , September 23, 2011
Very accurate concept ….
Except, this lotus feet stuck in the colorless mud of islam …
This lotus roots trapped in it for too long, breaking free means survival is not longer possible.
This lotus couldn't care less where it is …as long as it sees and feels the colorful and magnificent sun.
Thanks for the inspiring post ….
Except, this lotus feet stuck in the colorless mud of islam …
This lotus roots trapped in it for too long, breaking free means survival is not longer possible.
This lotus couldn't care less where it is …as long as it sees and feels the colorful and magnificent sun.
Thanks for the inspiring post ….
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