How a Jew-hating, Israel-hating British Muslim of Pakistani descent became a supporter of Israel...
British Muslim Zionist pulls no punches
Myron Love, Prairies Correspondent, February 14, 2012
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[WINNIPEG] — Kasim Hafeez has seen the truth and, in an address to a largely Jewish audience at the Asper Jewish Community Campus on Feb. 6, he pulled no punches.
Wahhabism, the Saudi Arabian version of Islam, is little different than Nazism, Hafeez said.
Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas should be facing war crimes charges at the International Criminal Court at The Hague, he said.
Anti-Zionism is code for antisemitism, he said.
The Islamic concern for Jerusalem is purely political, he said. Until the creation of Israel, Jerusalem was unimportant to most Muslims.
And often, he noted, those who claim to be pro-Palestinian are just anti-Israel.
Hafeez, 29, a British-born Muslim of Pakistani origin, knows of what he speaks.
Until just a few years ago, he was part of that Jew-hating Muslim world. He was even ready to go to Pakistan to train as a terrorist.
His worldview began to change after stumbling across a copy of Alan Dershowitz’s book, A Case for Israel. “I figured it was just Zionist propaganda,” he said of the book. “I thought I would read it and be able to refute it all.”
Instead, Hafeez found that Dershowitz’s arguments challenged all of the myths about Israel and the Jews that he grew up with. And, he said, he couldn’t find any Muslim sources who could refute Dershowitz’s points.
He decided pursue this new line of research and read books by Sir Martin Gilbert and other pro-Israel authors. Then he decided he had to go to Israel to see this “apartheid, fascist” and “racist” country for himself.
Not surprisingly – considering where he was coming from ideologically – he was immediately detained after landing at Ben-Gurion Airport. “Although I was held back for eight hours, I was treated with respect,” he recalled. “The guard kept apologizing and offering me coffee and pastries. I understood that he was just doing his job.”
After leaving the airport, he found that people were friendly and helpful. He contrasted his reception in Israel with the religious pilgrimage that he and some members of his family had made to Mecca some years earlier.
“I had never faced such racism before,” he said of his Saudi experience. “Because of our skin colour, we were purposely ignored. At checkpoints, our group was held up in the heat longer than others. My aunt was pushed away from an ATV machine by a Saudi woman who told her that Pakistanis can wait. And, if we had had Pakistani passports, our treatment would have been worse.”
In Israel, Hafeez’s epiphany came when he stood before the Western Wall. “I watched Christians, Muslims and Jews peacefully and freely going to their places of worship and I burst into tears. I finally realized what Israel is all about – the only Jewish state in the world. It is about the survival of the Jewish People, their religion, culture and heritage.
“I fell in love with the place.”
It’s far from easy being a Zionist Muslim in England. Hafeez said he’s been marginalized by his community, and most of his family won't talk to him any more (his sister, an aunt and his mother being the exceptions – although, he added, his mother is embarrassed by him).
Nonetheless, he feels compelled to speak the truth and cut through the lies. That truth is that of the two narratives concerning Israel/Palestine, one is the truth and the other is a pack of lies, he said.
“It was the Arabs, not the Jews who rejected partition in 1948,” he said. “It was the Arabs who attacked the new Jewish state. While I have sympathy for the Palestinian people, you can’t take their expressions of peace seriously when they are constantly showing maps of the land of Israel as greater Palestine.”
He urged his audience to get the facts about Israel out, especially on university campuses, to be proactive rather than reactive. “Hold regular events that promote Israel in the best possible way,” he said. “And show people that Israel is much more than just the conflict. Show all the ways that Israel is helping humanity. Be proud of Israel, not apologetic.”
Comments (54)
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written by Abc , May 05, 2012
I suppose the boy has to eat! I congratulate him on being original. Jumping on the Zionist card to get paid. He could have bored us to death with the apostate card and got paid!!!! Isn't that right Khany boy???
written by Demsci , May 05, 2012
That is the Ad Hominem logical fallacy you are showing twice now, ABC. It is always about the message and never about the messenger. Even an idiot or a well-paid defector still can tell the truth.
But on the other hand, when the message can't be refuted, then the opponents sure enough start to vilify the messenger.
And of course we may argue that the man did risk and lose a great deal, including his family-and-community-interaction. That is actually strengthening his story.
Unlike the story of those who comfortably stay in their family and community toeing the party-line like you do. We can do Ad Hominem too, you know.
And Noam Chomsky? He has been refuted very well too, you know.
But on the other hand, when the message can't be refuted, then the opponents sure enough start to vilify the messenger.
And of course we may argue that the man did risk and lose a great deal, including his family-and-community-interaction. That is actually strengthening his story.
Unlike the story of those who comfortably stay in their family and community toeing the party-line like you do. We can do Ad Hominem too, you know.
And Noam Chomsky? He has been refuted very well too, you know.
written by Abc , May 05, 2012
If there was anything factual there to refute then I would!
It's just hot air by a dopey pak wanting to get paid!
Read between the lines if you can!
It's just hot air by a dopey pak wanting to get paid!
Read between the lines if you can!
written by 1proudkaffur4life , May 05, 2012
Just in case you have some spare time, could you address the points: Why does stoned-gawd allah book quorran claim "one day is ONE thousand years, while in another instance it is 50.000 years. What did MuahamMAD (aka Muhammad) do in the middle of the night in a pagan/christian rubbish heap in Jerusalem, and why is this such a wonderful event to make it a "holey" place?
written by Gnostic , May 05, 2012
Whatever you think about this never ending conflict. the muslims must understand that there is no way to eliminate Israel. We all know this and even the guys behind the scene who pay all the radicals, islamists, salafists and hisbollahs an even al qaeda know this but its the rich arabs who earn he petrodollars who are behind the terror and the killings but they never get dirty hands because they all know that there are enough poor arabs and muslims, useful idiots, who always like to fight and to kill and even to die for a religion they re laughing about.
Does nobody understand that those useful idiots are only wasting their time, their money and even their lives not for god but for these oil sheikhs who have billions and wives and virgins for their pleasure. They are laughing about the paradise promised in the quran because they are already enjoying a much better life and they are not afraid of any punishment because they would never be so stupid to believe in such nonsense. But they like to pay this useful idiots in order to drive the oil price higher and higher. Then they buy stakes and they even create jobs, but not in arab countries, because they know that arabs are lazy and uneducated and that they prefer to pray and not to work.
They know that very well because all the products they enjoy are not produced by muslims. They drive german cars and have electronics produced in Japan or in Korea by people who use their brains in order to achieve something in this life and not for what might be behind death or not.
Does nobody understand that those useful idiots are only wasting their time, their money and even their lives not for god but for these oil sheikhs who have billions and wives and virgins for their pleasure. They are laughing about the paradise promised in the quran because they are already enjoying a much better life and they are not afraid of any punishment because they would never be so stupid to believe in such nonsense. But they like to pay this useful idiots in order to drive the oil price higher and higher. Then they buy stakes and they even create jobs, but not in arab countries, because they know that arabs are lazy and uneducated and that they prefer to pray and not to work.
They know that very well because all the products they enjoy are not produced by muslims. They drive german cars and have electronics produced in Japan or in Korea by people who use their brains in order to achieve something in this life and not for what might be behind death or not.
written by fineliving56 , May 05, 2012
'' a dopey pak wanting to get paid ''
Is that what you are doing here ? …..
It take one to know one !!!
Is that what you are doing here ? …..
It take one to know one !!!
written by annad , May 05, 2012
Wow?! Taking about rasism and who are you -Abc? Are you being paid by Islamic petrodollars which are a plenty?
written by CGW , May 05, 2012
PLEASE HELP:
JOIN THIS EFFORT ! ! !
http://www.change.org/petitions/fire-dr-hatem-elh...
JOIN THIS EFFORT ! ! !
http://www.change.org/petitions/fire-dr-hatem-elh...
written by vbv , May 05, 2012
Paki boy is now become pro-jew suddely. But paki boy has yet to answer for the two-nation theory that created Pakistan, butchered millions of hindus in the newly created Pakistan that their population declined from 15% at the time of creation of Pakistan in 1947 to less than 1% today in 2012. This pogrom is far greater than 6million jews massacred or sent to the gas chamber by the nazi. It is well over 5 times that number that has been systematically and savagely butchered by the pakis , not to talk of the thousands killed by the terrorists from Pakistan in the past three decades or the 500,000 kashmiri pandits displaced from their homes and living in camps for over two decades because of the very same pakis.
All I can say that you can never trust a muslim . They are time servers , forked-togued, deceivers that will wait for the time to show their true colours. This man wants to be in the good books of the british and get a lucrative job, hence the hypocritical lip-service for the jewish case. In the hearts they are no better than that notorious punk known as Anjem Choudhary. Atleast Anjem Choudhary is honest about being an islamist, but there are millions who mask their true nature till they have sufficient numbers that they can strike and impose their barbaric cult of islam and its barbaric code called "sharia".
All I can say that you can never trust a muslim . They are time servers , forked-togued, deceivers that will wait for the time to show their true colours. This man wants to be in the good books of the british and get a lucrative job, hence the hypocritical lip-service for the jewish case. In the hearts they are no better than that notorious punk known as Anjem Choudhary. Atleast Anjem Choudhary is honest about being an islamist, but there are millions who mask their true nature till they have sufficient numbers that they can strike and impose their barbaric cult of islam and its barbaric code called "sharia".
written by DavidL , May 06, 2012
Slaves of Allah don't even know their own Quran that says Allah created Israel as the Jewish Homeland. Open a Quran!
Quran 10:93: We settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful dwelling place, and provided for them sustenance of the best: it was after knowledge had been granted to them
Quran 10:93: We settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful dwelling place, and provided for them sustenance of the best: it was after knowledge had been granted to them
written by Abc , May 06, 2012
There is no doubt that the entire Arab peninsula combined can not defeat Israel. Let's not forget Israel is a nuclear power. Their nuclear deterrant is not only in air but sea as well with the acquisition of the dolphin class subs from Germany.
They can deploy their Samson doctrine any time they want.
The Arab leaders are the lowest of the low. Boy it's going to be funny when the oil runs out. Let's be fair, the Arab Israeli relationship is like an ice berg. Very little on the surface but massive cooperation beneath the surface.
The entire Arab leadership are barely functional humans.
They can deploy their Samson doctrine any time they want.
The Arab leaders are the lowest of the low. Boy it's going to be funny when the oil runs out. Let's be fair, the Arab Israeli relationship is like an ice berg. Very little on the surface but massive cooperation beneath the surface.
The entire Arab leadership are barely functional humans.
written by Abc , May 06, 2012
The Muslim is back with a new angle
written by fineliving56 , May 06, 2012
'' a dopey pak wanting to get paid ''
Is that what you are doing here ? …..
It take one to know one !!!
written by fineliving56 , May 06, 2012
'' a dopey pak wanting to get paid ''
Is that what you are doing here ? …..
It take one to know one !!!
written by Abc , May 06, 2012
Don't worry about it! I'm an equal oppertunity hater!!!
Go figure!
Go figure!
written by Abc , May 06, 2012
They had this guys story on jihad watch a few months ago!
It's old news. Just like you the people who were making comments concluded that he is an terrorist undercover and all his love for Israel is taqiyya!
You gotta love it!
It's old news. Just like you the people who were making comments concluded that he is an terrorist undercover and all his love for Israel is taqiyya!
You gotta love it!
written by Abc , May 06, 2012
"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.
"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
-- David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.
"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
-- David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.
written by Abc , May 06, 2012
"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."
David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
written by Abc , May 06, 2012
"Wahhabism, the Saudi Arabian version of Islam, is little different than Nazism, Hafeez said" I'm pretty sure he has not read a book about either topic. Great sound byte though!
"Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas should be facing war crimes charges at the International Criminal Court at The Hague, he said"
Not going to mention a charge???
"Anti-Zionism is code for antisemitism, he said"
No it's not you cretin!
" He was even ready to go to Pakistan to train as a terrorist."
The oldest lie in the liars book. I was going to or was a terrorist. That some how gives credence and the ignorant lap it up. Take walid shoebat, kemal saleem, walid phires.
Fake!!
"Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas should be facing war crimes charges at the International Criminal Court at The Hague, he said"
Not going to mention a charge???
"Anti-Zionism is code for antisemitism, he said"
No it's not you cretin!
" He was even ready to go to Pakistan to train as a terrorist."
The oldest lie in the liars book. I was going to or was a terrorist. That some how gives credence and the ignorant lap it up. Take walid shoebat, kemal saleem, walid phires.
Fake!!
written by Infidel and More Proud , May 06, 2012
What about Tibbah AKA Medinah? jewish innit.....
written by Gnostic , May 06, 2012
If arabs try to oppose their dictator regimes, they will be accused for conspiring with Israel. Israel is responsible for everything, even for the civil war in Syria. Sometimes the USA are also blamed for everything, or even Iran, which in turn never hesitates to point at Israel.
Perhaps all this reflects the quranic view of things which is no different at all. The jews, the christians, the infidels, the people of Sodom - there is demand for a scapegoat everywhere in order to mitigate the own lack of legitimation. And if you once have got a scapegoat it becomes so easy to find as many useful idiot as you need, because there are always more than enough poor muslims who would even kill or commit a suicide bombing.
Algeria, for example, had been on the right path to industrialisation. Women did not wear headscarves but short mini skirts and nobody complained about it. However, when the emerging middle class began to struggle for independent unions and civil rights, the regimes decided to introduce islamist teacher who had to replace left wing intellectuals. This is what is happening again in the arab world, in countries such as Egypt and Tunisia.
Perhaps all this reflects the quranic view of things which is no different at all. The jews, the christians, the infidels, the people of Sodom - there is demand for a scapegoat everywhere in order to mitigate the own lack of legitimation. And if you once have got a scapegoat it becomes so easy to find as many useful idiot as you need, because there are always more than enough poor muslims who would even kill or commit a suicide bombing.
Algeria, for example, had been on the right path to industrialisation. Women did not wear headscarves but short mini skirts and nobody complained about it. However, when the emerging middle class began to struggle for independent unions and civil rights, the regimes decided to introduce islamist teacher who had to replace left wing intellectuals. This is what is happening again in the arab world, in countries such as Egypt and Tunisia.
written by Archpagan , May 06, 2012
'It take one to know one !!! '
We say it -' ratane ratan chene, suorey cheney kachu', meaning only a gem knows about another gem, the pig knows where the rhizome lies.
We say it -' ratane ratan chene, suorey cheney kachu', meaning only a gem knows about another gem, the pig knows where the rhizome lies.
written by Abc , May 06, 2012
"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to."
-- Golda Meir, March 8, 1969.
"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"
-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.
-- Golda Meir, March 8, 1969.
"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"
-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.
written by Abc , May 06, 2012
"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25, 1982.
"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
-- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988
-- Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25, 1982.
"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
-- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988
written by Abc , May 06, 2012
"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.
"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.
"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online
written by Editor, M A Khan , May 06, 2012
Please do not misuse my good gesture of unbanning you. I have warned you not to do spamming many times. I remind you again: don't keep posting comments on an article until you get reply from others.
If you continue, I may have to put your comments through moderation or your excess comments may be deleted.
If you continue, I may have to put your comments through moderation or your excess comments may be deleted.
written by Abc , May 06, 2012
Let me firstly thank you for you kind gesture in unbanning me!
Firstly if I tried to put all the references in one post it would not allow it given it has a limit on the number of words per post.
Secondly the references are relavent to the entire article about the face of Zionism.
All the above posts contradict mr hafeez
"In Israel, Hafeez’s epiphany came when he stood before the Western Wall. “I watched Christians, Muslims and Jews peacefully and freely going to their places of worship and I burst into tears. I finally realized what Israel is all about – the only Jewish state in the world. It is about the survival of the Jewish People, their religion, culture and heritage"
Firstly if I tried to put all the references in one post it would not allow it given it has a limit on the number of words per post.
Secondly the references are relavent to the entire article about the face of Zionism.
All the above posts contradict mr hafeez
"In Israel, Hafeez’s epiphany came when he stood before the Western Wall. “I watched Christians, Muslims and Jews peacefully and freely going to their places of worship and I burst into tears. I finally realized what Israel is all about – the only Jewish state in the world. It is about the survival of the Jewish People, their religion, culture and heritage"
written by annad , May 06, 2012
Equival opportunity's hater-or quantecential Muslim. And you people complain about islamophobia?
written by annad , May 06, 2012
I wonder why are Muslims so very concerned about fate of Palestinian Arabs and so much less concerned about their brethren next door like f.e Syrians?
I guess I will never hear an intellegeble answer
I guess I will never hear an intellegeble answer
written by Abc , May 06, 2012
"to abc
written by annad , May 06, 2012
Equival opportunity's hater-or quantecential Muslim. And you people complain about islamophobia?"
What are you typing about now?
I should really stop using sayings in English!
Especially when it's a second language to most here!
written by annad , May 06, 2012
Equival opportunity's hater-or quantecential Muslim. And you people complain about islamophobia?"
What are you typing about now?
I should really stop using sayings in English!
Especially when it's a second language to most here!
written by Abc , May 06, 2012
arabs from palestine
written by annad , May 06, 2012
I wonder why are Muslims so very concerned about fate of Palestinian Arabs and so much less concerned about their brethren next door like f.e Syrians?
I guess I will never hear an intellegeble answer
Maybe it's because it's the subject of the above article???
written by annad , May 06, 2012
I wonder why are Muslims so very concerned about fate of Palestinian Arabs and so much less concerned about their brethren next door like f.e Syrians?
I guess I will never hear an intellegeble answer
Maybe it's because it's the subject of the above article???
written by Demsci , May 06, 2012
You just are prejudiced against Israel, just like Hafeez in the past was, because of the spreading of lies and one-sided prejudiced information from I suppose clerical Islamic leaders.
What if for arguments' sake that I agree with all you wrote. I really read it and much of it may well be true. But .... the bulk of it happened in 1948. The bulk of violence and land-taking, not the words of prominent Israeli politicians.
But these words were matched by the words of the Muslims if these were not a 1000 times worse in volume and content. So Ahmadinejad cancels Sharon OK.
And in 5000 years of civilization you have to pick on the tiny Israel for land-stealing. But Muslims stole infinitely more in those 5000 years. It was commonly done by all sorts of people against all sorts of people.
The perpetrators and victims in Israel of 1948 are now all dead or dying. And if you insist on seeking justice from children for what their ancestors did, then be consistent. Blame both Israeli's and Turks for land-stealing from respectively Palestinians and Greeks.
You say; Israel did it more recent, but we can say the Turks did it much more in seize.
What if for arguments' sake that I agree with all you wrote. I really read it and much of it may well be true. But .... the bulk of it happened in 1948. The bulk of violence and land-taking, not the words of prominent Israeli politicians.
But these words were matched by the words of the Muslims if these were not a 1000 times worse in volume and content. So Ahmadinejad cancels Sharon OK.
And in 5000 years of civilization you have to pick on the tiny Israel for land-stealing. But Muslims stole infinitely more in those 5000 years. It was commonly done by all sorts of people against all sorts of people.
The perpetrators and victims in Israel of 1948 are now all dead or dying. And if you insist on seeking justice from children for what their ancestors did, then be consistent. Blame both Israeli's and Turks for land-stealing from respectively Palestinians and Greeks.
You say; Israel did it more recent, but we can say the Turks did it much more in seize.
written by Pipo , May 06, 2012
The Jews have been living in the Diaspora and in exile for the biggest part of their history and while living scattered over the world they have been minding their own business. Their contribution to the world (in science and arts especially) has been immense. Throughout history they have been far more civilized than Arab muslims ( no oppression of Gentiles, no slavery ect.)
The Arab muslims have been imperialistic from day one and they have been minding everybody's elses business ever since Mohammad concocted his theological kindergarten work, their history being one of; plunder, genocide, and salvery and their
achievements leaning very much on the intellect of non-Arabs.
Now the Jews have their own snippet of land surrounded by fast Arab nations and they have created a prosperous and democratic enclave amid the barbarity of most of the Arab world. And the Israelis achieved this without the commodity of oil
which would be unthinkable in the Arab world.
Now ABC, a question for you; Would it ever be conceivable that Muslims gave up on Saudi Arabia???
You see!... Muslims and Jews have something in common as well.
written by Abc , May 06, 2012
Demsci- that's is quite possibly them most juvenile argument I have ever read. Sure i have been affected by the writing of imam Chomsky, imam finkelstien, even hafiz John Stewart.
Nobody can change history. Turks, Mongols, inquisitions etc.
You can change the future by working in the present.
Palestine is now!!!! The world largest open air prison!
Your dishonesty is plain to see.
Nobody can change history. Turks, Mongols, inquisitions etc.
You can change the future by working in the present.
Palestine is now!!!! The world largest open air prison!
Your dishonesty is plain to see.
written by Abc , May 06, 2012
"Now ABC, a question for you; Would it ever be conceivable that Muslims gave up on Saudi Arabia???"
Does that justify the Palestinian people's plight (Christians, Jews and Muslims)?
Before your head explodes there are Jews and Christians living in Palestine!
Does that justify the Palestinian people's plight (Christians, Jews and Muslims)?
Before your head explodes there are Jews and Christians living in Palestine!
written by 1proudkaffur4life , May 06, 2012
17: 104.
AA
After this We told the children of Israel: "Dwell in the land. When the promise of reckoning comes, We shall bring you together from a motley crowd.
And:
10:93: We settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful dwelling place, and provided for them sustenance of the best: it was after knowledge had been granted to them
So in YOUR most holey book the stoned-gawd allah claims that it was him, who gave the Jews their country, which Muslims of today WOULD want to TAKE away from them, by hook or crook including killing all Jews.
33:26 "Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before."
Here the issue is not Israel but the homes in Arabia, at the times of the lice-ridden profeet.
How can Muslims be SURE that their demented "deity" does not turn against THEM too?
What if he acts upon his announcement if he feels like it to send a "better" verse not just to one "single" verse BUT to the whole I repeat "WHOLE" kooraan, and sends a updated version of the kooraan trough another messenger, after all there were many of them until the time of MuahaMAD (up to what 24 or 25.000?) , than you Muslims could be in the same situation as the Jews who rejected Jesus when he walked among them and like the Christians who told the profeet hes is from Sataan , that you Muslims are faced with the opportunity to reject a "new" message and new Messenger?
AA
After this We told the children of Israel: "Dwell in the land. When the promise of reckoning comes, We shall bring you together from a motley crowd.
And:
10:93: We settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful dwelling place, and provided for them sustenance of the best: it was after knowledge had been granted to them
So in YOUR most holey book the stoned-gawd allah claims that it was him, who gave the Jews their country, which Muslims of today WOULD want to TAKE away from them, by hook or crook including killing all Jews.
33:26 "Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before."
Here the issue is not Israel but the homes in Arabia, at the times of the lice-ridden profeet.
How can Muslims be SURE that their demented "deity" does not turn against THEM too?
What if he acts upon his announcement if he feels like it to send a "better" verse not just to one "single" verse BUT to the whole I repeat "WHOLE" kooraan, and sends a updated version of the kooraan trough another messenger, after all there were many of them until the time of MuahaMAD (up to what 24 or 25.000?) , than you Muslims could be in the same situation as the Jews who rejected Jesus when he walked among them and like the Christians who told the profeet hes is from Sataan , that you Muslims are faced with the opportunity to reject a "new" message and new Messenger?
written by Demsci , May 06, 2012
ABC, always using Ad Hominem, this time juvenile, dishonest, giving away his weakness in good arguments.
No, you can't change the past, and you can't blame descendants on what ancestors did. But that you did in the prior posts concerning blaming present Israeli's for what their ancestors did. Because 1948 is now 64 years in the past and it gets more distant each passing day.
With "open-air prison" you bring up what the present Israeli's do wrong in your view. That's a big discussion. But I like to emphasize that the Palestinians and Israeli's both are sane responsible humans with the capability to change.
So precisely because I view Palestinians as sane en responsible I give them the bigger part of the responsibility for the present situation. Israel offered peace! Israel could use peace well! the Palestinians refused, still intent on the destruction of Israel, no matter how long it takes.
If the Palestinians took their losses of land they could well use the possibility to make peace with Israel, get help from other nations and start rebuilding, give their children a better future than now.
Isn't it wrong of the Palestinians who can see how strong Israel now is, to still strive for it's destruction? And then complain that Israeli's take preventive measures?
So; I wonder what Ad Hominems now will come my way. Or will you this time react with arguments?
No, you can't change the past, and you can't blame descendants on what ancestors did. But that you did in the prior posts concerning blaming present Israeli's for what their ancestors did. Because 1948 is now 64 years in the past and it gets more distant each passing day.
With "open-air prison" you bring up what the present Israeli's do wrong in your view. That's a big discussion. But I like to emphasize that the Palestinians and Israeli's both are sane responsible humans with the capability to change.
So precisely because I view Palestinians as sane en responsible I give them the bigger part of the responsibility for the present situation. Israel offered peace! Israel could use peace well! the Palestinians refused, still intent on the destruction of Israel, no matter how long it takes.
If the Palestinians took their losses of land they could well use the possibility to make peace with Israel, get help from other nations and start rebuilding, give their children a better future than now.
Isn't it wrong of the Palestinians who can see how strong Israel now is, to still strive for it's destruction? And then complain that Israeli's take preventive measures?
So; I wonder what Ad Hominems now will come my way. Or will you this time react with arguments?
written by Abc , May 06, 2012
You use the excuse of ad Homs to support the flimsy arguments you put forward. Let's put your descendants and ancestors jibberish aside. Zionism is still alive and well! You want some quotes from bibi??
The past is just a learning tool. You seem incapable of aknowledging the present!
The open air prison is a reference to the description the prime minister of the uk used to describe Palestine.
Peace! This can happen with the Jewish brothers but never with the zionists!
The past is just a learning tool. You seem incapable of aknowledging the present!
The open air prison is a reference to the description the prime minister of the uk used to describe Palestine.
Peace! This can happen with the Jewish brothers but never with the zionists!
written by Abc , May 06, 2012
"If the Palestinians took their losses of land they could well use the possibility to make peace with Israel" easier saud than done.
What if I came to your house, kicked you out and made you and your family live in the garden. Then when you complain, I just shoot at you and terrorise you.
How you like me now? You still want your house back??
Israel is a superpower make no mistake about that. Like I wrote above, the entire Arabian peninsula doesn't have the guts or know how to deal with Israel.
Ah preventative measures. Two words for you but big implications.
How about collective punishment? Use of munitions banned by the geneva convention, and the list goes on and on!
What if I came to your house, kicked you out and made you and your family live in the garden. Then when you complain, I just shoot at you and terrorise you.
How you like me now? You still want your house back??
Israel is a superpower make no mistake about that. Like I wrote above, the entire Arabian peninsula doesn't have the guts or know how to deal with Israel.
Ah preventative measures. Two words for you but big implications.
How about collective punishment? Use of munitions banned by the geneva convention, and the list goes on and on!
written by CGW , May 06, 2012
Sorry for the bad link. Here's the correct one:
PLEASE HELP.
Albert Lea, MN pediatrician advocates Female Genital Mutilation:
PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION:
http://www.change.org/petitions/fire-dr-hatem-elhagaly-and-revoke-his-certifications
PLEASE HELP.
Albert Lea, MN pediatrician advocates Female Genital Mutilation:
PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION:
http://www.change.org/petitions/fire-dr-hatem-elhagaly-and-revoke-his-certifications
written by annad , May 06, 2012
Zionism is still alive and well!
Great!
Bad news is that Islam is still alive and well.
You seem incapable of aknowledging the present!
And you seems only capable of insulting people which is a small wonder considering your ideology of hate that you adhere to.
Miserable and pathetic hater as you are.
Great!
Bad news is that Islam is still alive and well.
You seem incapable of aknowledging the present!
And you seems only capable of insulting people which is a small wonder considering your ideology of hate that you adhere to.
Miserable and pathetic hater as you are.
written by annad , May 06, 2012
Israel is a superpower make no mistake about that
Who's afraid of a big bad wolf? Wof!
You are beyond ridicule.
the entire Arabian peninsula doesn't have the guts ... to deal with Israel.
And brains too... You know, many generations of inbreeding and fatalistic faith into all powerful and knowing Allah..
How about collective punishment?
You don't seem to have problems with it when Muslims do the punishments - like murdering innocents in Israel, India, USA, Russia, China, Sudan, UK, France and pretty much everywhere there is a representative of this savage death cult - Islam.
And all of a sudden somebody has guts to stand up to Islam! Jews especially!
So, immediately, they become nazis, fascists, mass murderers.
One can only imagine the blood bath, tortures and suffering that Jews will have to endure had Arabs won the war.
Who's afraid of a big bad wolf? Wof!
You are beyond ridicule.
the entire Arabian peninsula doesn't have the guts ... to deal with Israel.
And brains too... You know, many generations of inbreeding and fatalistic faith into all powerful and knowing Allah..
How about collective punishment?
You don't seem to have problems with it when Muslims do the punishments - like murdering innocents in Israel, India, USA, Russia, China, Sudan, UK, France and pretty much everywhere there is a representative of this savage death cult - Islam.
And all of a sudden somebody has guts to stand up to Islam! Jews especially!
So, immediately, they become nazis, fascists, mass murderers.
One can only imagine the blood bath, tortures and suffering that Jews will have to endure had Arabs won the war.
written by Archpagan , May 06, 2012
Arab's only contribution to human society is perfection of the art of ethnic cleansing. Al Tabari wrote long back wherever the Arabs made a conquest they changed the entire cultural landscape of that country. Even the soil of the country seems to have undergone a change.
Afghanistan and Pakistan, the cradle of Vedic civilization is now an extension of the desert wasteland of Arabia. Zionists just applied the treatment they had learnt from their Arab neighbors.
Afghanistan and Pakistan, the cradle of Vedic civilization is now an extension of the desert wasteland of Arabia. Zionists just applied the treatment they had learnt from their Arab neighbors.
written by Demsci , May 06, 2012
Thanks Annad + Archpagan, great posts!
ABC, YOU us Ad Hominems at me . And then THAT is MY excuse? MY trick? Just because I mention it? That is how you try to diminish my arguments, together with calling them flimsy and gibberish? You are the one using crutches like that and it shows you rely on them to support YOUR arguments.
Here you come again with the analogy about "If I come to your house and kick you out"-routine. But shouldn't you have begun with: "If my ancestors had come to your ancestors house and kicked your ancestors out"? 64 years ago.
I got news for you, except that it is most often further away in time, that is the analogy of soooo many people's ancestors doing it to sooooo many other people's ancestors. Leave what some ancestors did and others suffered aside and with what are you left?
Any way; in this analogy MY reaction would be to take my losses and make peace, for the sake of my children. That is what the Greeks did with the Turks and the Germans with the Russians, even the Indians with the Americans and the list is endless.
My reaction would not be to hold grudges and fight an impossible, thus futile war at the cost of my children and future generations for ever and ever. It is a great crime the Palestinians are doing to their children. And the only excuse you use for them is that they can do nothing else. Like they are dumb children or animals. But people like me would have long since made peace in their situation.
About the collective punishment; Israel may not be perfect and innocent, but the Syrian regime behave a 1000 times worse than the Israeli's now, yet you selectively keep pounding at Israel. But Syria shows you how much better Israeli's reacted, to those who openly say they want to destroy their state. Why, the Syrians shelled whole cities, killed hundreds every day, women, children.
But Israel is a certified democracy and very strong, defending itself against and potential very violent hateful enemies. And you should take the road of the "PAKI BOY above and replace your Islam-driven anti-semitic prejudice and hypocrisy with more forgiving and constructive peaceful thoughts and open-mindedness.
ABC, YOU us Ad Hominems at me . And then THAT is MY excuse? MY trick? Just because I mention it? That is how you try to diminish my arguments, together with calling them flimsy and gibberish? You are the one using crutches like that and it shows you rely on them to support YOUR arguments.
Here you come again with the analogy about "If I come to your house and kick you out"-routine. But shouldn't you have begun with: "If my ancestors had come to your ancestors house and kicked your ancestors out"? 64 years ago.
I got news for you, except that it is most often further away in time, that is the analogy of soooo many people's ancestors doing it to sooooo many other people's ancestors. Leave what some ancestors did and others suffered aside and with what are you left?
Any way; in this analogy MY reaction would be to take my losses and make peace, for the sake of my children. That is what the Greeks did with the Turks and the Germans with the Russians, even the Indians with the Americans and the list is endless.
My reaction would not be to hold grudges and fight an impossible, thus futile war at the cost of my children and future generations for ever and ever. It is a great crime the Palestinians are doing to their children. And the only excuse you use for them is that they can do nothing else. Like they are dumb children or animals. But people like me would have long since made peace in their situation.
About the collective punishment; Israel may not be perfect and innocent, but the Syrian regime behave a 1000 times worse than the Israeli's now, yet you selectively keep pounding at Israel. But Syria shows you how much better Israeli's reacted, to those who openly say they want to destroy their state. Why, the Syrians shelled whole cities, killed hundreds every day, women, children.
But Israel is a certified democracy and very strong, defending itself against and potential very violent hateful enemies. And you should take the road of the "PAKI BOY above and replace your Islam-driven anti-semitic prejudice and hypocrisy with more forgiving and constructive peaceful thoughts and open-mindedness.
written by Yibel , May 07, 2012
written by Abc , May 06, 2012
Palestine is now!!!! The world largest open air prison!
This "open air prison" as you put it has open doors and the so-called inmates can
come and go. Most have Jordanian passports and the leaders travel all over the
world. Abu Mazen (aka Abbas) even goes to Washington to visit the POTUS and beg for more money. (The POTUS just gave them an additional $196 million.) The Gazans can travel to Egypt any time they want. This is a very strange prison indeed.
The "Filistans" (there is no "p" sound in Arabic) are among the best fed people in
the world. This prison, as you call it, is nothing more than a large welfare state
wholely supported by the tax dollars of Americans and Europeans. Israel supplies
them with petrol, water and electricity, and ships hundreds of truckloads of food
into Gaza every month.
And what does Israel get in return. BOMBS - rockets from Gaza fall on Israeli cities every day and suicide bombers try to enter from Judea and Samaria on a regular basis. The Muslims sneak into Israeli homes in the dead of night and slit the throats of men, women and children - even babies. They stone cars and hurl firebombs at buses full of tourists. They set off bombs in pizza shops and bakeries and bus stops. There are drive-by shootings and stabbings and massacres of Jewish children.
And most of these "Filistans" have only lived in this region since the 1920s when
they were driven out of Arabia during the Saudi takeover. King Abdullah I of Jordan was the Emir of Makkah until the Saudis drove him and his Hashemite tribe out in the 1920s and the British allowed them to settle in the trans Jordan region.
There is more to history than you have been told by the Imams, Abc.
Palestine is now!!!! The world largest open air prison!
This "open air prison" as you put it has open doors and the so-called inmates can
come and go. Most have Jordanian passports and the leaders travel all over the
world. Abu Mazen (aka Abbas) even goes to Washington to visit the POTUS and beg for more money. (The POTUS just gave them an additional $196 million.) The Gazans can travel to Egypt any time they want. This is a very strange prison indeed.
The "Filistans" (there is no "p" sound in Arabic) are among the best fed people in
the world. This prison, as you call it, is nothing more than a large welfare state
wholely supported by the tax dollars of Americans and Europeans. Israel supplies
them with petrol, water and electricity, and ships hundreds of truckloads of food
into Gaza every month.
And what does Israel get in return. BOMBS - rockets from Gaza fall on Israeli cities every day and suicide bombers try to enter from Judea and Samaria on a regular basis. The Muslims sneak into Israeli homes in the dead of night and slit the throats of men, women and children - even babies. They stone cars and hurl firebombs at buses full of tourists. They set off bombs in pizza shops and bakeries and bus stops. There are drive-by shootings and stabbings and massacres of Jewish children.
And most of these "Filistans" have only lived in this region since the 1920s when
they were driven out of Arabia during the Saudi takeover. King Abdullah I of Jordan was the Emir of Makkah until the Saudis drove him and his Hashemite tribe out in the 1920s and the British allowed them to settle in the trans Jordan region.
There is more to history than you have been told by the Imams, Abc.
written by VRM , May 07, 2012
Ah..Many can ask the same question.
Jewish tribes of Medina whom muhamMAD kicked out after migrating from mecca.
Parsis whom Arabs kicked out of Persia.
Christians and Jews of Jerusalem whom Omar kicked out.
Hindus, Sikhs, Sindhis of present Papistan whom bloodthirsty Muslims kicked out in 1947.
And many-many more.
Jewish tribes of Medina whom muhamMAD kicked out after migrating from mecca.
Parsis whom Arabs kicked out of Persia.
Christians and Jews of Jerusalem whom Omar kicked out.
Hindus, Sikhs, Sindhis of present Papistan whom bloodthirsty Muslims kicked out in 1947.
And many-many more.
written by Archpagan , May 08, 2012
Thank you Yibel for your well informative post. Kashmiri Muslims are the most pampered people in India. Yet these ungrateful beasts raise all sorts of allegation against Indian state and Hindus demanding secession from the country. But, the undeniable fact is that Kashmir is a part of India for 5,000 years. So, if Kashmiris are to gain independence that should be from Islam not India.
written by Mozambique , May 08, 2012
"What if I came to your house, kicked you out and made you and your family live in the garden. Then when you complain, I just shoot at you and terrorise you. "
My friend abc if you will come to my house and kick me I will kick you right in your balls and make you less like a human this is what falistinians can do to Israelis but sorry to say your brothers do not have brains to develop themselves.
Muslims could not invent a better weapon than a sword...call it your fate or blame Allah for that...your choice.
My friend abc if you will come to my house and kick me I will kick you right in your balls and make you less like a human this is what falistinians can do to Israelis but sorry to say your brothers do not have brains to develop themselves.
Muslims could not invent a better weapon than a sword...call it your fate or blame Allah for that...your choice.
written by jojo , May 08, 2012
>>>Muslims could not invent a better weapon than a sword.
Muslims did not invent SWORD...Where r u??/
Muslims did not invent SWORD...Where r u??/
written by Mozambique , May 09, 2012
I never said Muslims invented sword...read again...r you jojo or yoyo
written by 1proudkaffur4life , May 10, 2012
Where was a "Palestinian" state during the Ottoman Empire? Since when? Who was his "founder"? Which was the Capital? Who was the last political leader before World War One? Which currency was used? Where did the borders run? Why was the Top-Honcho Yassir Arafat regarded as a "Palestinian" if he was born in Cairo Egypt? I've met 7 Muslims youths who after a long probing had to admit that their "grandparents" moved to Israel from Syria, in a effort to make the land part of what was then dreamed of as "South-Syria" or Greater Syria.
Fact is that the normal peasant Muslim who came into the land prior to 1949 DID not own the land, much less houses.
Of course there were Muslims whose ancestors lived in the land, many of them may have even owned some land, but not in big chunks. So Muslims who moved to what became Israel simply could not earn enough money to buy the land to build homes in them. I'd like to see any historical records that up to 1948 the economy was so booming that even the least educated peasant was able to earn in this time so much money as to buy land, build lavish homes, and feed his family.
Fact is that the normal peasant Muslim who came into the land prior to 1949 DID not own the land, much less houses.
Of course there were Muslims whose ancestors lived in the land, many of them may have even owned some land, but not in big chunks. So Muslims who moved to what became Israel simply could not earn enough money to buy the land to build homes in them. I'd like to see any historical records that up to 1948 the economy was so booming that even the least educated peasant was able to earn in this time so much money as to buy land, build lavish homes, and feed his family.
written by Abc , May 13, 2012
"As the conflict in Kashmir enters its fourth year, central and state authorities have done little to stop the widespread practice of rape by Indian security forces in Kashmir. Indeed, when confronted with the evidence of rape, time and again the authorities have attempted to impugn the integrity of the witnesses, discredit the testimony of physicians or simply deny the charges everything except order a full inquiry and prosecute those responsible for rape".
(Asia Watch and Physicians for Human Rights, May 09, 1993)
"Since January 1990, rape by Indian occupation forces has become more frequent. Rape most often occurs during crackdowns, cordon and search operations during which men are held for identification in parks or schoolyards while security forces search their homes. In raping them, the security forces are attempting to punish and humiliate the entire community."
('Pain in Kashmir: A Crime of War' issued jointly by Asia Watch and Physicians for Human Rights, May 09, 1993)
(Asia Watch and Physicians for Human Rights, May 09, 1993)
"Since January 1990, rape by Indian occupation forces has become more frequent. Rape most often occurs during crackdowns, cordon and search operations during which men are held for identification in parks or schoolyards while security forces search their homes. In raping them, the security forces are attempting to punish and humiliate the entire community."
('Pain in Kashmir: A Crime of War' issued jointly by Asia Watch and Physicians for Human Rights, May 09, 1993)
written by Abc , May 13, 2012
"(On February 23, 1991), at least 23 women were reportedly raped in their homes at gunpoint (at Kunan Poshpora in Kashmir). Some are said to have been gang-raped, others to have been raped in front of their children ... The youngest victim was a girl of 13 named Misra, the oldest victim, name Jana, was aged 80".
(Amnesty International, March 1992)
The most common torture methods are severe beatings, sometimes while the victim is hung upside down, and electric shocks. People have also been crushed with heavy rollers, burned, stabbed with sharp instruments, and had objects such as chilies or thick sticks forced into their rectums. Sexual mutilation has been reported".
(Amnesty International, March 1992
(Amnesty International, March 1992)
The most common torture methods are severe beatings, sometimes while the victim is hung upside down, and electric shocks. People have also been crushed with heavy rollers, burned, stabbed with sharp instruments, and had objects such as chilies or thick sticks forced into their rectums. Sexual mutilation has been reported".
(Amnesty International, March 1992
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If he wanted dershowitz refuted then read stuff by Noam Chomsky or even finkelstien!