Muhammad used to send threatening letters to foreign kings to embrace Islam, warning that should they reject his invitation -- they would be attacked and their kingdoms snatched away. He matched his words with actions.
Recently, reader Muslim and Proud commented on verse 9:29:
(9:29) “Fight with those from among the people of the Book, who do not believe in Allah nor in the Last Day; who do not make unlawful that which Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful, and do not adopt the Right way as their way. Fight with them until they pay Jizyah with their own hands and are humbled.”
Pay attention to the last sentence. Fight them UNTIL they pay Jizyah. Islamic law is clear on Jizyah. If it is not paid ONLY THEN does a Muslim have the right to fight the people of the book.
He suggests that this verse talks about fighting the People of the Book – namely Jews and Christians – of an Islamic state or under Muslim control, if they refuse to pay jizya. When non-Muslims are already under Islamic rule, Muslims don’t have to fight them if they refuse to pay jizya. They will be punished by the state.
So, I responded that this verse means: “In the case, people of the book refuse to accept invitation to Islam, fighting should be initiated to occupy their lands and force them to pay jizya.”
When he rejected my interpretation, I added: “We have lots of reference of Muhammad sending letters to Christian kings around Arabia, including emperor Heraclius of Byzantium – demanding that those kings embrace Islam. If they didn't, Muhammad waged Jihad expeditions against them.”
Suggesting that I was lying about Muhammad, Muslim and Proud wrote: “Please provide just 3 references, where it is categorically 'demanded' that they "embrace Islam or face the consequences of war.”
And when I couldn’t reply quickly enough, he wrote: “Did you manage to find the 3 references Mr Khan? Considering you have "lots" of them, it should not take so long to share them? Maybe you were just being a complete a******e (asshole) and you don't actually have any reference? I'm waiting in any case.”
Here, I’m presenting Muhammad’s threatening letters to foreign kings and emperors.
Let me first cite what Allah says about inviting Kuffars to Islam. I repeat that Quran 9:29 clearly says that, after receiving invitation to Islam, if the people of the book do not embrace Islam and follow the Islamic way, they must be fought and humbled, and willingly pay jizya. Similarly, elsewhere Allah says (Quran 59.3-4):
And had it not been that Allah had decreed banishment for them, He would certainly have punished them in this world: And in the Hereafter they shall (certainly) have the Punishment of the Fire.
That is because they resisted Allah and His Messenger: and if any one resists Allah, verily Allah is severe in Punishment.
This verse was revealed in reference to Muhammad’s attack and expulsion of the Banu Qainuqa/Nadir Jewish tribes from Medina. They clearly say that Muhammad had attacked and exiled those Jewish communities, “because they resisted Allah and His Messenger” – that is, they had rejected Muhammad’s invitation to Islam. So, verses 9:29 and 59:3-4 in combination make the “modus operandi” of spreading Islam crystal-clear: Accept Islam or face the Islamic sword!
Prophet Muhammad’s letter of submission to Islam to foreign kings
In 628, Prophet Muhammad led an expedition at the head of 1,500 armed Muslims to Mecca for capturing it. But when the Meccans showed resolute determination to fight to the last man, Muhammad negotiated and signed what Muslims call the unfair Hudaybiyah Treaty. Muhammad companion felt so humiliated by that treaty that “they felt depressed to the point of death,” write Ibn Ishaq.[1] Of course, Muhammad signed such a treaty, because he was not yet powerful enough to capture Mecca without serious loss of life on his side. Two years later, when he could assemble an army of 10,000 fighters, he threw away the treaty and captured Mecca.
After returning from that expedition, Muhammad sent emissaries to foreign rulers, namely the kings of Yamama, Yemen, Bahrain, Oman, Egypt, Syria, Byzantium, and Persia etc. In order to authenticate the credentials of his envoys, a “silver seal” was made with engraved words: "Muhammad the Messenger of Allâh"[2]. A few of those letters are discussed below:
Prophet’s letters to Haudha bin ‘Ali of Yamama:[3]
"In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful. From Muhammad, Messenger of Allâh to Haudha bin ‘Ali. Peace be upon him who follows true guidance. Be informed that my religion shall prevail everywhere. You should accept Islam, and whatever under your command shall remain yours."
The message of this letter is crystal-clear: embrace Islam or your kingdom will be snatched away, which of course will be achieved by fighting/war.
Hauda replied to Muhammad: "The Faith, to which you invite me, is very good. I am a famous orator and poet, the Arabs highly respect me and I am of account among them. If you include me in your government, I am prepared to follow you."
Hauda also bestowed a reward on Muhammad’s emissary, Sulait, and presented him with clothes made of Hajr fabric, which was passed on to Muhammad.
Even in today’s standard, this is very civilized reply to Muhammad’s threatening letter.
We must consider the fact that Yamama was a powerful kingdom. At this time, Muhammad was not powerful enough to conquer even Mecca. But under Caliph Abu Bakr, when the Muslim army became many folds more powerful, the Muslim army got defeated twice with terrible losses in its attempt to conquer Yamama. Only in the third attempt, led by Khalid bin Walid, Muslims were able to conquer Yamama.
So, such a polite reply and friendly gesture to Muhammad’s rude and threatening letter from a powerful monarch should be deemed highly civilized.
But barbarian par excellence as Muhammad was, this is what he said in reaction to Hauda’s proposal: "Yamama is bound to give rise to a liar who will arrogate Prophethood to himself but he will subsequently be killed." To a question of who would kill him, Muhammad said: "It is one of you, followers of Islam."
So, Muhammad not only rejected Hauda’s highly civilized reply, but also directed that Muslims must kill him. How barbaric!
Muhammad’s letter to Harith bin Abi Shamir Al-Ghassani, King of Damascus:[4]
"In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
From Muhammad, Messenger of Allâh to Al-Harith bin Abi Shamir.
Peace be upon him who follows true guidance, believes in it and regards it as true. I invite you to believe in Allâh Alone with no associate, thenceafter your kingdom will remain yours."
Reading the letter, Harith, who was under protection of the world’s most powerful Byzantine emperor Heraclius, became angry and said: "Who dares to disposs me of my country; I’ll fight him (the Prophet)."
Muhammad’s Letter to the King of ‘Oman, Jaifer, and his Brother ‘Abd Al-Jalandi:[5]
"In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
From Muhammad bin ‘Abdullah to Jaifer and ‘Abd Al-Jalandi.
Peace be upon him who follows true guidance; thereafter I invite both of you to the Call of Islam. Embrace Islam. Allâh has sent me as a Prophet to all His creatures in order that I may instil fear of Allâh in the hearts of His disobedient creatures so that there may be left no excuse for those who deny Allâh. If you two accept Islam, you will remain in command of your country; but if you refuse my Call, you’ve got to remember that all your possessions are perishable. My horsemen will appropriate your land, and my Prophethood will assume preponderance over your kingship."
Similar threatening letters were sent to the kings of Bahrain and Yemen, and to the chiefs Ayla and Duma etc.
These letters make it crystal-clear that Prophet Muhammad invited foreign rulers to embrace Islam with threatening letters. Should they reject his invitation to Islam, he promised to attack them and occupy their kingdoms.
Indeed, Muhammad and later caliphs waged wars against all those rulers, who had rejected Muhammad letter of invitation to Islam. Two-three years later, when Muhammad had become more powerful, Muhammad launched expedition against Syria (battle of Muta) and Byzantium (expedition to Tabuk), because governor Harith of Syria and emperor Heraclius of Byzantium had rejected Muhammad’s invitation to embrace Islam.
Similarly, on Muhammad’s expedition to Tabuk, Okaydir, the chief of Duma (Syria), had rejected his invitation of submit to Islam. So, Muhammad sent Khalid bin Walid to attack Okaydir, whose brother was killed and Okaydir was captured and brought to Muhammad in Medina. Muhammad forced him to embrace Islam and made him agree to collect jizya for Muhammad from his Christian subjects. When Okaydir later reverted to Christianity, he was attacked again and killed.
 Muhammad’s letter to Emperor Heraclius of Byzantium |
These letters of Muhammad to foreign rulers and his actions when they were rejected clearly validate my two claims, which Muslim and Proud disagrees with:
- Verse 9:29 means: “In the case people of the book refuse to accept invitation to Islam, fighting should be initiated to occupy their lands and force them to jizya. That's what this verse means.”
- “We have lots of reference of Muhammad sending letters to Christian kings around Arabia, including emperor Heraclius of Byzantium – demanding that they kings embrace Islam. If they didn't, Muhammad waged Jihad expeditions against them.”
It is worth noting that the language of Muhammad’s letter to foreign kings varied a little in accordance with the level of power of that ruler. When the ruler was very powerful, Muhammad did not threaten to attack them in order to capture their kingdom, lest they would pre-emptively attack and destroy him. The texts of Muhammad’s letters to the kings of the world’s two most power empires – namely of Persian and Byzantium – were as follows:
Muhammad’s letter to Emperor Heraclius of Byzantium:[6]
"In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
From Muhammad, the slave of Allâh and His Messenger to Hercules, king of the Byzantines.
Blessed are those who follow true guidance. I invite you to embrace Islam so that you may live in security. If you come within the fold of Islam, Allâh will give you double reward, but in case you turn your back upon it, then the burden of the sins of all your people shall fall on your shoulders.”
Muhammad’s letter to Chosroes, Emperor of Persia:[7]
"In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
From Muhammad, the Messenger of Allâh to Chosroes, king of Persia.
Peace be upon him who follows true guidance, believes in Allâh and His Messenger and testifies that there is no god but Allâh Alone with no associate, and that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger. I invite you to accept the religion of Allâh. I am the Messenger of Allâh sent to all people in order that I may infuse fear of Allâh in every living person, and that the charge may be proved against those who reject the Truth. Accept Islam as your religion so that you may live in security, otherwise, you will be responsible for all the sins of the Magians."
So, in these letters to more powerful kings, Muhammad asked them to embrace Islam, if they want to live in security, but doesn’t directly threaten to attack to dispossess them from their rule. When the ruler was relatively weak, the message of his letters was: Embrace Islam or else.
---
M. A. Khan is the author of "Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism, and Slavery"
[1] Ibn Ishaq, The Life of Muhammad, Oxford University Press, Karachi, p. 505
[2] Sahih Al-Bukhari 2:872-873
[3] Zad al-Ma'ad, by Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr (aka Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah), 3:63
[4] Za'd Al-Ma'ad, 3:62
[5] Saifur Rahman Al-Mubarakpuri, The Sealed Nectar, Maktaba Dar-us-Salam Publishers, p. 227-28
[6] Sahih Al-Bukhari 1:4-5; Ibn Ishaq, p. 655
[7] Fath ul-Bari fi Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari, by Ibn Hajr Asqalani, 8:127-128
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written by duh_swami , March 09, 2012
Good article and clarification Mr Khan...Easy to read, easy to understand...
written by Malem , March 09, 2012
If this verse/surah is studied carefully you will see it addresses aggression and oppression committed against Muslims at the time of Mohammed, main committed by the idolatrous Arabs, some Jewish tribes in and by some Christians. So the directive to fight in verse 9:29 relates to those non-muslims who commit aggressions or otherwise not committed to living peacefully. However in Islam you are not able to initiate such except to: Repel aggression; Protect Islamic dissemination; deter oppression and ensure freedom of religion. In these cases, fighting would become needed for the sake of the religion then called Jihad. So verse 9:29 instructs Muslims to fight against only those who initiate aggression and they may only fight under strict conditions, and are commanded to live peacefully with peaceful non-muslim neighbors.
written by Muslim and proud , March 09, 2012
"“Please provide just 3 references, where it is categorically 'demanded' that they "embrace Islam or face the consequences of war.”
I am still waiting Mr Khan.
The references you have provided do not "categorically demand" that the recipient of the letter embraces Islam or face the consequence of war.
Unlucky.
I am still waiting Mr Khan.
The references you have provided do not "categorically demand" that the recipient of the letter embraces Islam or face the consequence of war.
Unlucky.
written by Bikinilover , March 09, 2012
In the context they were written the above more than satisfy your request m&p.
written by duh_swami , March 09, 2012
The references you have provided do not "categorically demand" that the recipient of the letter embraces Islam or face the consequence of war.
Are you kidding? Those letters contain threats of violence for non compliance...I thought you could read?
'My horsemen will appropriate your land, and my Prophethood will assume preponderance over your kingship'."
What do you think that means?
Are you kidding? Those letters contain threats of violence for non compliance...I thought you could read?
'My horsemen will appropriate your land, and my Prophethood will assume preponderance over your kingship'."
What do you think that means?
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 09, 2012
You are here again your primitive style of arguement.
who is indoubt of the content of those letter that they life threatening?. Only people like you that have been affected badly by Ilsam that will still be asking such funny questions. Show me where?
Are you ready to renounce your cult religion?
I supposed you have seen my last post where Jesus was calling religious fanatics hypocrites and blind guides I hope I have put your curiousity to rest.
I also took time to explain why I sometimes look as if I hate you guys, Please see those ten reasons which I posted already in that thread and you will be ok.
next time argue inteligently
Regards
who is indoubt of the content of those letter that they life threatening?. Only people like you that have been affected badly by Ilsam that will still be asking such funny questions. Show me where?
Are you ready to renounce your cult religion?
I supposed you have seen my last post where Jesus was calling religious fanatics hypocrites and blind guides I hope I have put your curiousity to rest.
I also took time to explain why I sometimes look as if I hate you guys, Please see those ten reasons which I posted already in that thread and you will be ok.
next time argue inteligently
Regards
written by Editor, M A Khan , March 09, 2012
Don't humiliate yourself in front of the public by your silly word-game playing. Maybe Malem should have a word with you.
Nonetheless, this was my claim: "We have lots of references of Muhammad sending letters to Christian kings around Arabia, including emperor Heraclius of Byzantium – demanding that those kings embrace Islam. If they didn't, Muhammad waged Jihad expeditions against them."
And this article has proven me correct beyond any iota of doubt.
Nonetheless, this was my claim: "We have lots of references of Muhammad sending letters to Christian kings around Arabia, including emperor Heraclius of Byzantium – demanding that those kings embrace Islam. If they didn't, Muhammad waged Jihad expeditions against them."
And this article has proven me correct beyond any iota of doubt.
written by Muslim and proud , March 09, 2012
Please refer to my request, which you have included in your article.
I do not see the word "demand" in any of the letters.
You failed
I do not see the word "demand" in any of the letters.
You failed
written by Mohamed , March 09, 2012
You have categorically proven that you are a moron.
Mo was not aware of the word categorically forhe did not know english.
But he also did not leave any escape clause therefore it was absolute which in english means categorically. Arabic is not your strong point is it.
Mo was not aware of the word categorically forhe did not know english.
But he also did not leave any escape clause therefore it was absolute which in english means categorically. Arabic is not your strong point is it.
written by Muslim and proud , March 09, 2012
Since when did "invite" mean "demand"
I invite you to accept Islam
I demand that you accept Islam
Simple English.......
I invite you to accept Islam
I demand that you accept Islam
Simple English.......
written by Muslim and proud , March 09, 2012
Look at the opening statement of this article:
"Muhammad used to send threatening letters to foreign kings to embrace Islam, warning that should they reject his invitation -- they would be attacked and their kingdoms snatched away.
Even Mr Khan has used the word "invitation".....that's because the word "demand" is not to be seen in any of the letters.
Where does it say in the letters that "should they reject his invitation -- they would be attacked and their kingdoms snatched away"?
So who is the moron I wonder???????
"Muhammad used to send threatening letters to foreign kings to embrace Islam, warning that should they reject his invitation -- they would be attacked and their kingdoms snatched away.
Even Mr Khan has used the word "invitation".....that's because the word "demand" is not to be seen in any of the letters.
Where does it say in the letters that "should they reject his invitation -- they would be attacked and their kingdoms snatched away"?
So who is the moron I wonder???????
written by Editor, M A Khan , March 09, 2012
Now you have started competing with M & P on who can excel the other in silliness.
Where in this verse you see "it addresses aggression and oppression committed against Muslims at the time of Mohammed, main committed by the idolatrous Arabs, some Jewish tribes in and by some Christians."? You have to be rocket scientist to discover this in that verse.
Instead, the verse clearly define reason why the Jews and Christians must be fought, which is: "who do not believe in Allah nor in the Last Day; who do not make unlawful that which Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful, and do not adopt the Right way as their way."
Further clarification can be found from the next verses (9:30-31).
You and Muslim & Proud are proof of how Islam can turn perfectly intelligent people into nuts. I hope, you said those words, not because Islam allows its followers to lie or deceive the kuffar to defend and advance Islam.
Where in this verse you see "it addresses aggression and oppression committed against Muslims at the time of Mohammed, main committed by the idolatrous Arabs, some Jewish tribes in and by some Christians."? You have to be rocket scientist to discover this in that verse.
Instead, the verse clearly define reason why the Jews and Christians must be fought, which is: "who do not believe in Allah nor in the Last Day; who do not make unlawful that which Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful, and do not adopt the Right way as their way."
Further clarification can be found from the next verses (9:30-31).
You and Muslim & Proud are proof of how Islam can turn perfectly intelligent people into nuts. I hope, you said those words, not because Islam allows its followers to lie or deceive the kuffar to defend and advance Islam.
written by Muslim and proud , March 09, 2012
Please try again and search your "lots" of references......
My request was clear and I thank you for including it in your article - this was a foolish thing that "you" did. It is there is black and white - have anoter go
Over to you.
My request was clear and I thank you for including it in your article - this was a foolish thing that "you" did. It is there is black and white - have anoter go
Over to you.
written by fineliving56 , March 09, 2012
just to serve their agenda, which to defend Islam and force it to grow to dominate ... too bad it is not working ... lol
Just because Muslims say these letters were NOT enforcement and NOT full of threats and demands does not make it true ... it is so clear ... even a fifth gread child would be clear to her ...
Yah ... Muslim ... we see black and you say .... no it is white!!! ...I am telling it is white !!! .... lol
It looks like these Muslims are not fooling any one but themselves ... we all know it as these letter are nothing but '' either you do it or else''
written by El Cid , March 09, 2012
Muslim and proud, you remind me so very much of the "Thought Police" in "1984". Have you ever read that book? Probably not a book widely read in the heathen lands of mo's cult followers. I challenge you to read it and draw parallels to your own cult.
written by Editor, M A Khan , March 09, 2012
Sorry folks. In a rush, I left out a couple of words.
The leader of the kuffar world sent a letter to the leader of Muslim world: "I invite you to leave Islam and you will be safe. If you don't, our army attack and dispossess you from your lands...."
The leader of the kuffar world sent a letter to the leader of Muslim world: "I invite you to leave Islam and you will be safe. If you don't, our army attack and dispossess you from your lands...."
written by Muslim and proud , March 09, 2012
The fact that you have edited the posts on here makes your situation very desperate indeed.
I wait for the 3 references as per my original request, as shown in your article.
I wait for the 3 references as per my original request, as shown in your article.
written by Muslim and proud , March 09, 2012
invitation = demand
written by Editor, M A Khan, March 09, 2012
Sorry folks. In a rush, I left out a couple of words.
Actually you completely wrote the wrong thing - bring back the original post if you dare - and bring back my response to it........
written by duh_swami , March 09, 2012
This has got to be the most stupid defense of Islam I have seen yet...A threat and demand couched in flowery language is still a threat and a demand...
I showed a note to the bank teller...'I invite you please to turn over to me all the money in the bank, I would really appreciate it if you do it quickly, your wife and children will be safe'...'Thank you for your voluntary compliance'...End of story...
I showed a note to the bank teller...'I invite you please to turn over to me all the money in the bank, I would really appreciate it if you do it quickly, your wife and children will be safe'...'Thank you for your voluntary compliance'...End of story...
written by Muslim & Proud , March 09, 2012
"I showed a note to the bank teller...'I invite you please to turn over to me all the money in the bank, I would really appreciate it if you do it quickly, your wife and children will be safe'...'Thank you for your voluntary compliance'...End of story..."
Lol
This person gets arrested
Prosecution present their case to say the man had violent INTENTIONS towards the bank teller
Defence present the note
Judge cannot convict the accused of violent INTENT
End of story..............end of case
Capiche
Lol
This person gets arrested
Prosecution present their case to say the man had violent INTENTIONS towards the bank teller
Defence present the note
Judge cannot convict the accused of violent INTENT
End of story..............end of case
Capiche
written by duh_swami , March 09, 2012
Are you addressing me directly M&Precious? have you been eating brave pills?
You see M&Pressured, there is no point arguing with a drunk or a Muslim stuck on stupid...You seem to be stuck dear boy...Maybe some warm water and soap might help, have you tried that?...
You see M&Pressured, there is no point arguing with a drunk or a Muslim stuck on stupid...You seem to be stuck dear boy...Maybe some warm water and soap might help, have you tried that?...
written by El Cid , March 09, 2012
And then the jury come back in with a verdict of guilty, 30 years. In western cultures, justice (for the most part) functions. Not like in mulsim infested turd piles where there is only sharia and tribal customs.
written by Muslim & Proud , March 09, 2012
The judge CANNOT convict the person of violent intention......
Chances are, the bank teller will bear witness that the person who handed over the not was very polite and courteous........
End of story.......end of case
Capiche
Chances are, the bank teller will bear witness that the person who handed over the not was very polite and courteous........
End of story.......end of case
Capiche
written by Mal , March 09, 2012
mrkhan let me first say a religion does nothing to turn someone into a nut, and it is not very civil to insuate that is what has occured with me or others. i would have expect a higher level of civil discussion with you.
that being saud the versus in 9:29and actually in the entire Surah, stress the necessity of the strugle against the People of the Book etc, but under what conditions? I have previously stated the fact that in Islam it is not allowed to atta ck non-Muslims who are not being hostil e to them, who do not oppress Muslims, or try to forcbly convert Muslims from their religion, drive them from their lands, conduct battls against them, or are preparing for battls against them. Now if one of these offenses occurs, then Muslims are permitted to defend themselves and protect their religion. So now if you take this verse in its historical context, it becomes clear that the verse was revealed in connection with aggression initiated against the Muslims and not vice versa.
that being saud the versus in 9:29and actually in the entire Surah, stress the necessity of the strugle against the People of the Book etc, but under what conditions? I have previously stated the fact that in Islam it is not allowed to atta ck non-Muslims who are not being hostil e to them, who do not oppress Muslims, or try to forcbly convert Muslims from their religion, drive them from their lands, conduct battls against them, or are preparing for battls against them. Now if one of these offenses occurs, then Muslims are permitted to defend themselves and protect their religion. So now if you take this verse in its historical context, it becomes clear that the verse was revealed in connection with aggression initiated against the Muslims and not vice versa.
written by El Cid , March 09, 2012
You fail to grasp logic. Which, is evident since you embrace the most simple of fairy tales told by an illiterate, looting, child raping, murdering, backstabbing, torturing, genocidal lying goat humper
written by El Cid , March 09, 2012
Mal, have you ever read a history book? Islam from its bloody inception, has been a cult that has expanded by the sword (and now the AK and bomb).
written by duh_swami , March 09, 2012
You have no idea what you are talking about dear boy, the bank robbery was an example of a demand couched in nice language, but lacking soap and water you missed that...Simplicity go's right over your head...That is the end of the story...There is no point debating a Muslim stuck on stupid...Warm soap and water M&Pious, that's the ticket...
written by Muslim and proud , March 09, 2012
" you embrace the most simple of fairy tales told by an illiterate, looting, child raping, murdering, backstabbing, torturing, genocidal lying goat "
Yawns
Yawns
Yawns
Wake me up when you change the record El Sad
Lol
Yawns
Yawns
Yawns
Wake me up when you change the record El Sad
Lol
written by generalissimo , March 09, 2012
mr muslim and "proud":
"I invite you to eat this burger
or else your possessions will be lost..."
does this example seem like an "invitation" to you?
"I invite you to eat this burger
or else your possessions will be lost..."
does this example seem like an "invitation" to you?
written by Muslim and proud , March 09, 2012
" an example of a demand couched in nice language"
Lol
Course it was - the judge will really buy that......not
Lol
Course it was - the judge will really buy that......not
written by El Cid , March 09, 2012
Do you deny these charges against OlMo? Are these things not true as evidenced by your own fairytales (Koran)
written by duh_swami , March 09, 2012
"I invite you to eat this burger
or else your possessions will be lost..."
The 'or else' is the demand and the threat...Every letter in article has an 'or else' in it...That M&Precious fails to see that only attests to willful blindness...
or else your possessions will be lost..."
The 'or else' is the demand and the threat...Every letter in article has an 'or else' in it...That M&Precious fails to see that only attests to willful blindness...
written by El Cid , March 09, 2012
To become a muslim means that first, one must divorce them self from logic and reason and embrace mindless obedience to a cult.
written by Malem , March 09, 2012
I presented a logical response, what failed was your ability to read it thoroughly and then formulate any sort of valid and civil response. The discussion does not have to stoop down to making up vulgar names to spout at Mohamed with some other random verbiage tossed in. As was shown earlier in an another post with Mr Khan, discussions can be civil even if the two people are at extreme ends of the topic.
written by truthseeker , March 09, 2012
There is no point in arguing with Muslims. Their blind faith in medieval boys' games makes them immune to reason.
written by Muslim and proud , March 09, 2012
"Every letter in article has an 'or else' in it..."
Can you read English???
The fact of the matter remains.....
An invitation does not equal a demand.
My request to Khan is very clear and not ambiguous -- he has failed...
Can you read English???
The fact of the matter remains.....
An invitation does not equal a demand.
My request to Khan is very clear and not ambiguous -- he has failed...
written by Malem , March 09, 2012
Your inability to form a counterpoint that addresses the topic at hand without digressing makes my point exactly.
written by Malem , March 09, 2012
You will not get a proper response, just look at the post previous to yours, no content just banter.
written by Muslim & Proud , March 09, 2012
My criteria (as shown in the article): “Please provide just 3 references, where it is categorically 'demanded' that they "embrace Islam or face the consequences of war.”
Letter 1: You should accept Islam, and whatever under your command shall remain yours.
Criteria not met
Letter 2: I invite you to believe in Allâh Alone with no associate, thenceafter your kingdom will remain yours.
Criteria not met
Letter 3: If you two accept Islam, you will remain in command of your country; but if you refuse my Call, you’ve got to remember that all your possessions are perishable. My horsemen will appropriate your land, and my Prophethood will assume preponderance over your kingship.
Criteria not met
Letter 4: If you come within the fold of Islam, Allâh will give you double reward, but in case you turn your back upon it, then the burden of the sins of all your people shall fall on your shoulders.
Criteria not met
Letter 5: Accept Islam as your religion so that you may live in security, otherwise, you will be responsible for all the sins of the Magians.
Criteria not met
Here is the opening statement of the article:
Muhammad used to send threatening letters to foreign kings to embrace Islam, warning that should they reject his invitation -- they would be attacked and their kingdoms snatched away.
Can you see the following words in any of the letters:
Warning
Attacked
Snatched
It's a clear cut FAIL......try again Mr Khan.
Letter 1: You should accept Islam, and whatever under your command shall remain yours.
Criteria not met
Letter 2: I invite you to believe in Allâh Alone with no associate, thenceafter your kingdom will remain yours.
Criteria not met
Letter 3: If you two accept Islam, you will remain in command of your country; but if you refuse my Call, you’ve got to remember that all your possessions are perishable. My horsemen will appropriate your land, and my Prophethood will assume preponderance over your kingship.
Criteria not met
Letter 4: If you come within the fold of Islam, Allâh will give you double reward, but in case you turn your back upon it, then the burden of the sins of all your people shall fall on your shoulders.
Criteria not met
Letter 5: Accept Islam as your religion so that you may live in security, otherwise, you will be responsible for all the sins of the Magians.
Criteria not met
Here is the opening statement of the article:
Muhammad used to send threatening letters to foreign kings to embrace Islam, warning that should they reject his invitation -- they would be attacked and their kingdoms snatched away.
Can you see the following words in any of the letters:
Warning
Attacked
Snatched
It's a clear cut FAIL......try again Mr Khan.
written by pipo , March 09, 2012
Do you consider the words "apes and pigs" to be vulgar names.... when aimed at people ofcourse?
written by Muslim & Proud , March 09, 2012
"Do you consider the words "apes and pigs" to be vulgar names.... when aimed at people ofcourse?"
Not if it is aimed at a "group" of Jews who openly disrespected their own Sabbath.
Not if it is aimed at a "group" of Jews who openly disrespected their own Sabbath.
written by This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it , March 09, 2012
Islam is a religion of death.
Look at how the brothers group together to at first argue, and then threaten and final attack any DISCUSSION on the prophet or Islam. Muslim religious freedoms mean no freedom for any other thought. Islam is death, of thought, discussion and freedom. There is no reason or common sense in the religion, only the living dead rely on Islam. If there is a heaven you will not find one Muslim present, if there is a hell the vast majority will the Muslims all arguing!
Look at how the brothers group together to at first argue, and then threaten and final attack any DISCUSSION on the prophet or Islam. Muslim religious freedoms mean no freedom for any other thought. Islam is death, of thought, discussion and freedom. There is no reason or common sense in the religion, only the living dead rely on Islam. If there is a heaven you will not find one Muslim present, if there is a hell the vast majority will the Muslims all arguing!
written by el cid , March 09, 2012
illiterate, looting, child raping, murdering, backstabbing, torturing, genocidal lying
These are facts. How can you "logically" dent them. I note that you skirt this issue.
These are facts. How can you "logically" dent them. I note that you skirt this issue.
written by duh_swami , March 09, 2012
An invitation does not equal a demand.
Soap amd water...don't forget to wash behind your ears...
Soap amd water...don't forget to wash behind your ears...
written by pipo , March 09, 2012
So Allah can have his all to human faults while we have to refrain from such faults when it suits you... again, where is the logic?
And besides that you're being a hypocrite again...It's Islam that has turned hate speech and slandering into an artform.
And besides that you're being a hypocrite again...It's Islam that has turned hate speech and slandering into an artform.
written by Muslim and proud , March 09, 2012
"illiterate, looting, child raping, murdering, backstabbing, torturing, genocidal lying
These are facts."
Really?
Facts eh?
Prove it.
These are facts."
Really?
Facts eh?
Prove it.
written by Proud Infidel , March 09, 2012
"My request was clear and I thank you for including it in your article"
Not only was your request included, but answered with numerous socumeted examples. You Sir, are grabbing for straws; gasping for air, whatever one wishes to call it. You are acting like a little child that continues to argue and argue, although no argument is represented. In fact, you have crossed the line and are making your "perfect religion" appear so meaningless and lending more argument against it that not even your Muslim buddies are coming to your rescue.
You have been beaten, and bad. Your arguments of hamburgers and bank tellers are futile at best. You just can't admit that you Islam is not what you "think" it is.
I was going to recommend to Mr. Khan that he no longer honor your posts, as they contain zero substance. I've changed my mind. If you wish to continue to show your ass like a pro, please do.
I will suggest to you however, that you maintain the moniker "Muslim and Proud" and not reveal your actual name. That's the only way you'll avoid true embarrassment.
Not only was your request included, but answered with numerous socumeted examples. You Sir, are grabbing for straws; gasping for air, whatever one wishes to call it. You are acting like a little child that continues to argue and argue, although no argument is represented. In fact, you have crossed the line and are making your "perfect religion" appear so meaningless and lending more argument against it that not even your Muslim buddies are coming to your rescue.
You have been beaten, and bad. Your arguments of hamburgers and bank tellers are futile at best. You just can't admit that you Islam is not what you "think" it is.
I was going to recommend to Mr. Khan that he no longer honor your posts, as they contain zero substance. I've changed my mind. If you wish to continue to show your ass like a pro, please do.
I will suggest to you however, that you maintain the moniker "Muslim and Proud" and not reveal your actual name. That's the only way you'll avoid true embarrassment.
written by duh_swami , March 09, 2012
Prove it.
I'm so sorry, this is not court, so no one has to prove anything to you...Your own literature gives Mohammad away as a illiterate, child raping, murdering, backstabbing, genocidal liar...I would add robber and pervert...It is up to you M&Perfect, to prove all these charges against Mohammad are false...You do not have to do that to satisfy kuffar, but to clear the Prophets name...You are interested in clearing his name aren't you?
I'm so sorry, this is not court, so no one has to prove anything to you...Your own literature gives Mohammad away as a illiterate, child raping, murdering, backstabbing, genocidal liar...I would add robber and pervert...It is up to you M&Perfect, to prove all these charges against Mohammad are false...You do not have to do that to satisfy kuffar, but to clear the Prophets name...You are interested in clearing his name aren't you?
written by duh_swami , March 09, 2012
NO proof is required...I tried three times to telly you why that is, but the administrative grabbed all ot them...Lucky you...
written by anders , March 09, 2012
The phrase "veiled threat" comes to mind when one reads Mohamamad's "invitations. reminds me of the Mafia- we can protect you from those who might break your windows or your bones...
Although Mo was an international Mafia exponent. I take over your country if you dont cooperate- it will be all your fault ... just like H in 1939
Although Mo was an international Mafia exponent. I take over your country if you dont cooperate- it will be all your fault ... just like H in 1939
written by Proud Infidel , March 09, 2012
"Facts eh? Prove it."
Muslim and Proud, you are demanding that they prove facts that have been proven time and time again. Then you cry that the facts are not credible. It appears that the only fact provided you that would suffice would be total admission that you are in fact correct. I'll let you in on a little secret...your "facts" aren't the only credible facts. You simply demand that that be the case. That isn't debate, that's outright bullying..all in the name of Islam. I commend you on your dedication to be exactly like the prophet Muhammed.
If you really want to promote your political system, might I suggest changing your tactic a bit? I would suggest taking a look at the Muslim Brotherhood's document titled "An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the Brotherhood in North America". It states in part that "Enablement of Islam in North
America, meaning: establishing an effective and a stable Islamic Movement led by the Muslim Brotherhood which adopts Muslims' causes domestically and globally, and which works to expand the observant Muslim base, aims at unifying and directing Muslims' efforts, presents Islam as a civilization alternative, and supports the global Islamic State wherever it is". Although a highly imflammatory statement that espouses a clear agenda seeking a global Islamic state and the subjugation of all other religions, I think it will show that bullying isn't your the preferred method. It might also improve your debating skills, as intelligent debate isn't driven by bullying, butby convincing people that a political system cloaked in religion is the best choice...through civil discourse. Think about it. Will people submit faster to something that they dislike and know is wrong through forceful agression, or through subtle coersion backed by positive reinforcement?
I would suggest re-looking your methodology because as long as you berate every post and demand that it be proven, you're not doing any good for youself or Islam. In fact, it's people like you that make others despise you and those like you. Jeez, who's going to believe anything said by someone that can't stand because of their abrasive, holier-than-though "I'm always right, you're always wrong" attitude?
You, Mr. Muslim and Proud have some growing up to tend to before you will ever succeed in convincing me of one damn thing.
Muslim and Proud, you are demanding that they prove facts that have been proven time and time again. Then you cry that the facts are not credible. It appears that the only fact provided you that would suffice would be total admission that you are in fact correct. I'll let you in on a little secret...your "facts" aren't the only credible facts. You simply demand that that be the case. That isn't debate, that's outright bullying..all in the name of Islam. I commend you on your dedication to be exactly like the prophet Muhammed.
If you really want to promote your political system, might I suggest changing your tactic a bit? I would suggest taking a look at the Muslim Brotherhood's document titled "An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the Brotherhood in North America". It states in part that "Enablement of Islam in North
America, meaning: establishing an effective and a stable Islamic Movement led by the Muslim Brotherhood which adopts Muslims' causes domestically and globally, and which works to expand the observant Muslim base, aims at unifying and directing Muslims' efforts, presents Islam as a civilization alternative, and supports the global Islamic State wherever it is". Although a highly imflammatory statement that espouses a clear agenda seeking a global Islamic state and the subjugation of all other religions, I think it will show that bullying isn't your the preferred method. It might also improve your debating skills, as intelligent debate isn't driven by bullying, butby convincing people that a political system cloaked in religion is the best choice...through civil discourse. Think about it. Will people submit faster to something that they dislike and know is wrong through forceful agression, or through subtle coersion backed by positive reinforcement?
I would suggest re-looking your methodology because as long as you berate every post and demand that it be proven, you're not doing any good for youself or Islam. In fact, it's people like you that make others despise you and those like you. Jeez, who's going to believe anything said by someone that can't stand because of their abrasive, holier-than-though "I'm always right, you're always wrong" attitude?
You, Mr. Muslim and Proud have some growing up to tend to before you will ever succeed in convincing me of one damn thing.
written by Kisan , March 09, 2012
Convert or have your head cut off:
http://alquraan.net/ahadith/sahih_bukhari/vol_5/v5_641_680.html
Dhul-l-Khulasa was a house in Yemen belonging to the tribe of Khatham and Bajaila, and in it there were idols which were worshipped, and it was called Al-Ka'ba." Jarir went there, burnt it with fire and dismantled it. When Jarir reached Yemen, there was a man who used to foretell and give good omens by casting arrows of divination. Someone said to him, "The messenger of Allah's Apostle is present here and if he should get hold of you, he would chop off your neck." One day while he was using them (i.e. arrows of divination), Jarir stopped there and said to him, "Break them (i.e. the arrows) and testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, or else I will chop off your neck." So the man broke those arrows and testified that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah.
That is a forced conversion at the point of a sword which if you read the full hadith series you can see was under the direct orders of the Prophet and met his approval. It also involved destroying the Temples of the Pagan Arabs, again forced non-conversion away from their beliefs and compelled conversion to Islam.
http://alquraan.net/ahadith/sahih_bukhari/vol_5/v5_641_680.html
Dhul-l-Khulasa was a house in Yemen belonging to the tribe of Khatham and Bajaila, and in it there were idols which were worshipped, and it was called Al-Ka'ba." Jarir went there, burnt it with fire and dismantled it. When Jarir reached Yemen, there was a man who used to foretell and give good omens by casting arrows of divination. Someone said to him, "The messenger of Allah's Apostle is present here and if he should get hold of you, he would chop off your neck." One day while he was using them (i.e. arrows of divination), Jarir stopped there and said to him, "Break them (i.e. the arrows) and testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, or else I will chop off your neck." So the man broke those arrows and testified that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah.
That is a forced conversion at the point of a sword which if you read the full hadith series you can see was under the direct orders of the Prophet and met his approval. It also involved destroying the Temples of the Pagan Arabs, again forced non-conversion away from their beliefs and compelled conversion to Islam.
written by Amboyduke , March 09, 2012
El Sad
written by Muslim and proud , March 09, 2012
"illiterate, looting, child raping, murdering, backstabbing, torturing, genocidal lying
These are facts." Really?
Facts eh?
Prove it.
*****************************************
We can't "prove" they did it back then, but we sure as hell can "prove" they're doing it today...!!! Yesiree!
written by Editor, M A Khan , March 09, 2012
that being saud the versus in 9:29and actually in the entire Surah, stress the necessity of the strugle against the People of the Book etc, but under what conditions?Analyse the whole surah and show us that this verse was meant revealed against aggression of the Jews and Christians.
I have previously stated the fact that in Islam it is not allowed to atta ck non-Muslims who are not being hostil e to them, who do not oppress Muslims, or try to forcbly convert Muslims from their religion, drive them from their lands, conduct battls against them, or are preparing for battls against them. Now if one of these offenses occurs, then Muslims are permitted to defend themselves and protect their religion.You have seen those letters of Muhammad's threat of war to foreign kings in 628; and those kings never had bothered Muhammad or Muslims. Muslims attacked India, Spain, France, North Africa -- because those countries were hostile to them, oppressed Muslims, or tried to forcibly convert Muslims from their religion, drove them from their lands, conducted battles against them, or prepared for battles against them?
So now if you take this verse in its historical context, it becomes clear that the verse was revealed in connection with aggression initiated against the Muslims and not vice versaPresent us the historical contexts to justify that verse. The Jews and Christians never did to Muslims any such things. Islamic historical texts nowhere give any such inkling.
written by Amboyduke , March 09, 2012
Mr khan
written by Mal , March 09, 2012
mrkhan let me first say a religion does nothing to turn someone into a nut,
*******************************************8
Boy oh boy, is THAT ever wrong...!!!
I, like duh_swami, have worked in a mental institution for the criminally insane and although I was not a health practitioner, I was a curious, inquisitive thinker and an observer of the patients in the wards, and although many people can have religion and not get crazy...there is on helluva lot of them...maybe even the MAJORITY, who have religious influences on their clinical insanity, and that is a fact...
written by Mal , March 09, 2012
mrkhan let me first say a religion does nothing to turn someone into a nut,
*******************************************8
Boy oh boy, is THAT ever wrong...!!!
I, like duh_swami, have worked in a mental institution for the criminally insane and although I was not a health practitioner, I was a curious, inquisitive thinker and an observer of the patients in the wards, and although many people can have religion and not get crazy...there is on helluva lot of them...maybe even the MAJORITY, who have religious influences on their clinical insanity, and that is a fact...
written by Editor, M A Khan , March 09, 2012
Islam is a complete code of life. And it sanctions, amongst many horrible things, lying and deceiving. Islam is supposed to lead its followers -- good or bad -- toward lying and deceiving tendencies.
written by el cid , March 09, 2012
El Sad
written by Muslim and proud , March 09, 2012
"illiterate, looting, child raping, murdering, backstabbing, torturing, genocidal lying
These are facts."
Really?
Facts eh?
Prove it.
Have you not read the Qur'an, Hadiths . . . . If you had, as I have several times (know thy enemy) then you would know this. Or, do you believe that a 60 year old man should hump 9 year old girls? You are a fool and an idiot. In other words, a typical brain washed muslim drone.
written by Muslim and proud , March 09, 2012
"illiterate, looting, child raping, murdering, backstabbing, torturing, genocidal lying
These are facts."
Really?
Facts eh?
Prove it.
Have you not read the Qur'an, Hadiths . . . . If you had, as I have several times (know thy enemy) then you would know this. Or, do you believe that a 60 year old man should hump 9 year old girls? You are a fool and an idiot. In other words, a typical brain washed muslim drone.
written by Amboyduke , March 09, 2012
@ Amboyduke/Malem
written by Editor, M A Khan , March 10, 2012
Islam is a complete code of life. And it sanctions..................etc.
************************************
You are as right as rain.
written by Editor, M A Khan , March 10, 2012
Islam is a complete code of life. And it sanctions..................etc.
************************************
You are as right as rain.
written by Ferret , March 10, 2012
Hey 'Muslim and Proud',this is an example of what you laughingly call an 'invitation':
"Peace be upon him who follows my guidance, believes in it and regards it as true. I invite you to believe in Me alone and with no associate, thenceafter your house and possessions will remain yours."
That is not an invitation, it is a threat. If someone sent me a note like that I would immediately take steps to protect myself and my property. Mohammed THREATENED , true to behaving like the THUG he really was.
"Peace be upon him who follows my guidance, believes in it and regards it as true. I invite you to believe in Me alone and with no associate, thenceafter your house and possessions will remain yours."
That is not an invitation, it is a threat. If someone sent me a note like that I would immediately take steps to protect myself and my property. Mohammed THREATENED , true to behaving like the THUG he really was.
written by a.tayyab , March 10, 2012
The very concept of some angel bringing messages is not in the Bible; no one from Moses to Jesus said that what they are saying e.g. today is brought to them by some angel and what they said e.g. yesterday, they made that up all by themselves so call one quran and the other hadith.
It is very obvious that alla or allah is not the God of Moses,Jesus and other prophets of the Bible which defines the Liar,the Antichrist as the one that denies the Father and the Son(1John2:22).
Keep up the good work Mr.Khan; as you said muslim(s) are playing word games,lying because they are Liars.
It is very obvious that alla or allah is not the God of Moses,Jesus and other prophets of the Bible which defines the Liar,the Antichrist as the one that denies the Father and the Son(1John2:22).
Keep up the good work Mr.Khan; as you said muslim(s) are playing word games,lying because they are Liars.
written by Muslim and proud , March 10, 2012
Have you not read the Qur'an, Hadiths . . . . If you had, as I have several times (know thy enemy) then you would know this. Or, do you believe that a 60 year old man should hump 9 year old girls? You are a fool and an idiot. In other words, a typical brain washed muslim drone.
So the Holy Qur'an and Hadith are fact are they, according to "you"?
Please confirm?
written by then lie , March 10, 2012
islam is the straight path.from Allah(the king of lord) we know how save our soul forever after dead.only worship Allah.not to another god.all the people in the world now worship Allah.
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 10, 2012
"So the Holy Qur'an and Hadith are fact are they, according to "you"? Please confirm? "
Are you doubting your scritures? Are they not?
Sometimes I wonder how you pick up your primitive arguement with some silly questions,
If they are not why do you believe in a lie in the first place? The isssue now is not whether they are true, but issue is how many people believe it? At the momment we have about 1.5billion who believe in the lie and that is a big problem.
That is why we here to expose the big lie, other wise these people will be doomed for ever.
Are you doubting your scritures? Are they not?
Sometimes I wonder how you pick up your primitive arguement with some silly questions,
If they are not why do you believe in a lie in the first place? The isssue now is not whether they are true, but issue is how many people believe it? At the momment we have about 1.5billion who believe in the lie and that is a big problem.
That is why we here to expose the big lie, other wise these people will be doomed for ever.
written by Malem , March 10, 2012
I did present my understanding of the entire surah/verse and that the actions are allowed in figting are limited to defensive postures. As for the letters from Mohammed, these are not the Holy Quran and have nothing to do with the word of Allah. Islam is not based on letters from one prophet, Mohammed is not and was not the authority that is Allah and Allah only. The Holy Quran clearly states IT is the only word of Allah and nothing else can be such. Of course I could take the position of an opposing argument to Duh who states that there is no proof Mohammed existed and say that these letters then cannot exist and thus end of argument :)
written by duh_swami , March 10, 2012
I did present my understanding of the entire surah/verse and that the actions are allowed in figting are limited to defensive postures.
Out of the billion or so Muslims in the world you are in a minute minority who believe that...There is defensive jihad when Muslim lands are attacked, but that is not all...There is no way to 'fight them' until everyone in the world worships Allah without aggression...Aggressive jihad has one main purpose, to remove obstacles to the spread of Islam...Every Muslim is obligated to jihad as a duty to Allah...Not all jihad methods are violent, but they all have the same goal...remove obstacles in the way of Allah, until only Allah is worhipped......
Out of the billion or so Muslims in the world you are in a minute minority who believe that...There is defensive jihad when Muslim lands are attacked, but that is not all...There is no way to 'fight them' until everyone in the world worships Allah without aggression...Aggressive jihad has one main purpose, to remove obstacles to the spread of Islam...Every Muslim is obligated to jihad as a duty to Allah...Not all jihad methods are violent, but they all have the same goal...remove obstacles in the way of Allah, until only Allah is worhipped......
written by Demsci , March 10, 2012
Muslim & Proud asked: "So the Holy Qur'an and Hadith are fact are they, according to "you"? Please confirm.
Tom Holland has just written a book about the origines of Islam. In it he describes how strangely silent all sources are about Mohammed and the Quran and Hadith until centuries later in time. So he concludes that they may have in part a few true origines, but that they must be myths mostly. And this guy can be considered neutral, impartial.
The great common ground, overlap is between so-called radical Muslims and Counter-Jihadists who both use and believe Islam's official story, and Quran and Hadiths, at least in big part.
The big difference is that so-called radical Muslims stress the good parts or consider some parts good, while counter-jihadist stress the bad parts or consider the same parts bad. But they both USE Islamic scriptures and sayings of influential Islamic leaders.
And for the so-called moderate Muslims it is problematic to only protest what counter-jihadists claim, because countless times the same is claimed AND practised by so-called radical Muslims.
But if Tom Holland is right, Islam as being told today just isn't the truth or the whole truth
Tom Holland has just written a book about the origines of Islam. In it he describes how strangely silent all sources are about Mohammed and the Quran and Hadith until centuries later in time. So he concludes that they may have in part a few true origines, but that they must be myths mostly. And this guy can be considered neutral, impartial.
The great common ground, overlap is between so-called radical Muslims and Counter-Jihadists who both use and believe Islam's official story, and Quran and Hadiths, at least in big part.
The big difference is that so-called radical Muslims stress the good parts or consider some parts good, while counter-jihadist stress the bad parts or consider the same parts bad. But they both USE Islamic scriptures and sayings of influential Islamic leaders.
And for the so-called moderate Muslims it is problematic to only protest what counter-jihadists claim, because countless times the same is claimed AND practised by so-called radical Muslims.
But if Tom Holland is right, Islam as being told today just isn't the truth or the whole truth
written by Healer_999 , March 10, 2012
It looks like pious Muslims can not even read now and understand simple English ...... I am really wondering what Islam has done to such brains.....
written by Editor, M A Khan , March 10, 2012
I did present my understanding of the entire surah/verse and that the actions are allowed in figting are limited to defensive postures.Nowhere have you shown that this Surah says, Muslims are permitted fight under those conditions. Indeed, there is no inkling of it in whole Surah either.
As for the letters from Mohammed, these are not the Holy Quran and have nothing to do with the word of Allah.I have shown that Quran 59.3-4 clearly says that if a people reject Allah and his messenger, they should be attacked and exiled. No difference from what Muhammad's letters resonate. Allah and Muhammad say the same thing.
Islam is barbarism and one can show it otherwise only by lying.
written by Amboyduke , March 10, 2012
well said...once again your response proves how they dodge and weave and "weasel" (pun intended LOL) around the truth about their collective lunacy....
Also, nice to see some old posters returning on here as well as some new folks!
Also, nice to see some old posters returning on here as well as some new folks!
written by Kisan , March 10, 2012
Even now the evil of forced conversions threatens. Here is one of Pakistan's biggest TV stars threatening ghazwa e hind and saying if Hindus don't convert then 'muslamanon ki talwar faisla karenge', the swords of Muslims will decide the matter. The same bullshit goes on since the time of the fake Nabi piece of shit Muhammad who used terror and force to spread his cult of hate, that is why his followers continue in his evil path. Non-Muslims need to be aware of the Islamic cults ongoing plan to use force to convert or enslave us all. Wake up, and Muslims don't be proud of your evil cult but open your eyes and leave that evil path.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...PF3G1HbUA=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...PF3G1HbUA=
written by fineliving56 , March 10, 2012
"'"" Muhammad was not and is not the authority, that is Allah and Allah ONLY """
ONLY ? """ ... hmmmm
Where is the lie in that sentence ???
Malem either, he is an ignorant of Quran and of what exactly says, or he is a liar ...
Notice I am not calling names to demean ... Not all all ... I call a man a liar WHEN I CATCH HIM IN A CLEAR LIE ... I DO NOT CARE WHO HE OR SHE IS .
- Q says Surit Al fatih [ the victory] ... 48/ 17
'' And he who OBEYS Allah and HIS MESSENGER [MUHAMMAD] will admit him to gardens ... and he who turn back Allah will torture them in torturous penalty "'
Another one to expose the lies that Malem says
-- Q / Al Ahzab [ the Allies] 33/ 56 ...
'' Allah and his Angles pray on the prophet [ Muhammad ] and all the believers that they believe PRAY on him [ Muhammad ] and submit to him in all submitting "'
Now is that a glaring proofs that proves that Allah ordered ...
> Muslims to OBEY Muhammad [ Not Allah alone Malem .. OK !!!] there for, Muhammad was an AUTHORITY, THERE FOR Malem is a LIAR ....
or at least he is an ignorant Muslim of Quran if yes ... then what in the hell he is doing here trying to be an expert on Quran ...
Is Malem, a liar or ignorant of Quran ?
readers will decide !!!
ONLY ? """ ... hmmmm
Where is the lie in that sentence ???
Malem either, he is an ignorant of Quran and of what exactly says, or he is a liar ...
Notice I am not calling names to demean ... Not all all ... I call a man a liar WHEN I CATCH HIM IN A CLEAR LIE ... I DO NOT CARE WHO HE OR SHE IS .
- Q says Surit Al fatih [ the victory] ... 48/ 17
'' And he who OBEYS Allah and HIS MESSENGER [MUHAMMAD] will admit him to gardens ... and he who turn back Allah will torture them in torturous penalty "'
Another one to expose the lies that Malem says
-- Q / Al Ahzab [ the Allies] 33/ 56 ...
'' Allah and his Angles pray on the prophet [ Muhammad ] and all the believers that they believe PRAY on him [ Muhammad ] and submit to him in all submitting "'
Now is that a glaring proofs that proves that Allah ordered ...
> Muslims to OBEY Muhammad [ Not Allah alone Malem .. OK !!!] there for, Muhammad was an AUTHORITY, THERE FOR Malem is a LIAR ....
or at least he is an ignorant Muslim of Quran if yes ... then what in the hell he is doing here trying to be an expert on Quran ...
Is Malem, a liar or ignorant of Quran ?
readers will decide !!!
written by fineliving56 , March 10, 2012
Were is my post?
I am exposing lies that Muslims write on regular bases and time to me is so short to spend on this web site ... for so many reasons I have explained before
So Admin please, can you post it back !
thanks
I am exposing lies that Muslims write on regular bases and time to me is so short to spend on this web site ... for so many reasons I have explained before
So Admin please, can you post it back !
thanks
written by Yibel , March 10, 2012
Truth-telling, if it is something that reflects negatively on Islam or Muhammad, is
"blasphemy" as far as Muslims are concerned and puts Muslims in an very odd and difficult place.
Muslims, by using or defining negative as understood in the West, are actually
acknowledging that the West has set the worldwide standards on discourse concerning moral behavior, and, more importantly, that those standards are in fact the standards of Muslims as well. And further that those standards are better than Islamic standards.
Otherwise, why wouldn't Muslims be proud of Muhammed's character and past behavior if he is, in their view, the perfect man, Insaan-e-Kaamil. Shouldn't they be rejoicing in all of his behaviors especially his lusts; his sexual lusts, his lust for the property of others, his lust for vengeance, and his murders, kidnappings, rapes, perversions, sadistic tortures, etc.? In the islamic view of reality, these things are worthy of imitation, a fact which Muslims regard highly by doing just that, imitating their ONLY "prophet."
And shouldn't Muslims feel esteemed, certainly not offended, that non-Muslims are
recognizing Mohammed's character if in fact his character and behavior are, as Muslims believe, admirable?
Consequently there's no need for Muslims to be angry or become defensive or outraged when anyone, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, recognize that Muhammed was a pedaphile, a rapist, a murderer, a sadistic thief and liar. Muslims should
justifiably take pride in this "perfect" messenger of their evil little tin god.
But oddly they don't. Muslims go wild when Muhammed's HISTORICALLY-PROVEN character and ACTUAL behavior are exposed because it shows Mo to be a reprehensible scumbag, but only reprehensible when Western standards are used. His character in Islamic eyes is perfect.
I suppose we should be flattered that when things really get down to the nub, that even Muslims KNOW that Muhammed was despicable, and that Westerns morality standards are superior. Otherwise why would muslims want to hide from sight so many of the anti-social traits of their prophet. They simply can't admit it - though they know it - because doing so would cause the pretend fantasy world that islam-is-perfect to come crashing down around their behinds in the air.
"blasphemy" as far as Muslims are concerned and puts Muslims in an very odd and difficult place.
Muslims, by using or defining negative as understood in the West, are actually
acknowledging that the West has set the worldwide standards on discourse concerning moral behavior, and, more importantly, that those standards are in fact the standards of Muslims as well. And further that those standards are better than Islamic standards.
Otherwise, why wouldn't Muslims be proud of Muhammed's character and past behavior if he is, in their view, the perfect man, Insaan-e-Kaamil. Shouldn't they be rejoicing in all of his behaviors especially his lusts; his sexual lusts, his lust for the property of others, his lust for vengeance, and his murders, kidnappings, rapes, perversions, sadistic tortures, etc.? In the islamic view of reality, these things are worthy of imitation, a fact which Muslims regard highly by doing just that, imitating their ONLY "prophet."
And shouldn't Muslims feel esteemed, certainly not offended, that non-Muslims are
recognizing Mohammed's character if in fact his character and behavior are, as Muslims believe, admirable?
Consequently there's no need for Muslims to be angry or become defensive or outraged when anyone, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, recognize that Muhammed was a pedaphile, a rapist, a murderer, a sadistic thief and liar. Muslims should
justifiably take pride in this "perfect" messenger of their evil little tin god.
But oddly they don't. Muslims go wild when Muhammed's HISTORICALLY-PROVEN character and ACTUAL behavior are exposed because it shows Mo to be a reprehensible scumbag, but only reprehensible when Western standards are used. His character in Islamic eyes is perfect.
I suppose we should be flattered that when things really get down to the nub, that even Muslims KNOW that Muhammed was despicable, and that Westerns morality standards are superior. Otherwise why would muslims want to hide from sight so many of the anti-social traits of their prophet. They simply can't admit it - though they know it - because doing so would cause the pretend fantasy world that islam-is-perfect to come crashing down around their behinds in the air.
written by Muslim and proud , March 10, 2012
"Tom Holland has just written a book about the origines of Islam. In it he describes how strangely silent all sources are about Mohammed and the Quran and Hadith until centuries later in time. So he concludes that they may have in part a few true origines, but that they must be myths mostly. And this guy can be considered neutral, impartial."
So according to aneutral, Tom Holland, the sources are mostly 'myths'....
How is it then than El Sad can male accusations of looting etc......based on myths...
Lol
So according to aneutral, Tom Holland, the sources are mostly 'myths'....
How is it then than El Sad can male accusations of looting etc......based on myths...
Lol
written by Healer_999 , March 10, 2012
Koran is incoherent and most Muslims too have become incoherent too ..........
written by fineliving56 , March 10, 2012
Can you heal the sick and incoherent Muslims around here .....
They lie and lie and they acted like they are not ... any suggestions ?
How come we do not see you post much often .. Your logic is needed here to the bias ans pious Muslims ...
not that we do not have very logical writers here [ Muslims excluded ..sorry to say ]
You are the first who welcomed me here in IW and I do appreciated ...
^ ^
They lie and lie and they acted like they are not ... any suggestions ?
How come we do not see you post much often .. Your logic is needed here to the bias ans pious Muslims ...
not that we do not have very logical writers here [ Muslims excluded ..sorry to say ]
You are the first who welcomed me here in IW and I do appreciated ...
^ ^
written by Muslim and proud , March 10, 2012
According to Mr Demsci:
""Tom Holland has just written a book about the origines of Islam. In it he describes how strangely silent all sources are about Mohammed and the Quran and Hadith until centuries later in time. So he concludes that they may have in part a few true origines, but that they must be myths mostly. And this guy can be considered neutral, impartial.""
So if "most" Islamic sources according to this neutral person (Tom Holland) are myths, how can foolish peoe make accusations like:
Looting, murder, massacre etc etc
You people are beyond a joke - lol lol lol
""Tom Holland has just written a book about the origines of Islam. In it he describes how strangely silent all sources are about Mohammed and the Quran and Hadith until centuries later in time. So he concludes that they may have in part a few true origines, but that they must be myths mostly. And this guy can be considered neutral, impartial.""
So if "most" Islamic sources according to this neutral person (Tom Holland) are myths, how can foolish peoe make accusations like:
Looting, murder, massacre etc etc
You people are beyond a joke - lol lol lol
written by Demsci , March 10, 2012
Muslim & Proud, people who respect science search for the truth, no matter what. So yeah, perhaps some of the accusations on the prophet of Islam may be called myth. But .... if something in a myth is uncomplimentary to it's hero, it is logical that that is true, because despite the bad impression it makes, it was included in the myth.
But most importantly, what do you conclude from this new book? You cannot only see the bad words and deeds of the prophet of Islam as untrue and the good ones as true, that's totally illogical. You must conclude then also that you were fed a story that most likely is in big part untrue. The reward in heaven you hope to get is most likely untrue also. Or if you do believe the good words and deeds of Mohammed, then logically you should believe his bad words and deeds also. A child can see that.
Then why do you stay a Muslim? Do you openly admit that you do that for other reasons? Because it feels comfortable, because your loved ones are in it and because they would ostracize or even kill you if you apostasized? But knowing Islam is not telling the truth?
But most importantly, what do you conclude from this new book? You cannot only see the bad words and deeds of the prophet of Islam as untrue and the good ones as true, that's totally illogical. You must conclude then also that you were fed a story that most likely is in big part untrue. The reward in heaven you hope to get is most likely untrue also. Or if you do believe the good words and deeds of Mohammed, then logically you should believe his bad words and deeds also. A child can see that.
Then why do you stay a Muslim? Do you openly admit that you do that for other reasons? Because it feels comfortable, because your loved ones are in it and because they would ostracize or even kill you if you apostasized? But knowing Islam is not telling the truth?
written by Muslim & Proud , March 10, 2012
Muslim & Proud, people who respect science search for the truth, no matter what. So yeah, perhaps some of the accusations on the prophet of Islam may be called myth. But .... if something in a myth is uncomplimentary to it's hero, it is logical that that is true, because despite the bad impression it makes, it was included in the myth.
"if something in a myth is uncomplimentary to it's hero, it is logical that that is true"
So something TRUE is INCLUDED in a myth.......you have started to dig and I hope you do not continue - for your own sake!!
But most importantly, what do you conclude from this new book? You cannot only see the bad words and deeds of the prophet of Islam as untrue and the good ones as true, that's totally illogical. You must conclude then also that you were fed a story that most likely is in big part untrue. The reward in heaven you hope to get is most likely untrue also. Or if you do believe the good words and deeds of Mohammed, then logically you should believe his bad words and deeds also. A child can see that.
For you people, they are mostly myths
For muslims, they are all true and we do not see anything bad.......
Then why do you stay a Muslim? Do you openly admit that you do that for other reasons? Because it feels comfortable, because your loved ones are in it and because they would ostracize or even kill you if you apostasized? But knowing Islam is not telling the truth?
I stay a muslim because Islam is the truth.
Maybe you need to refer to an example which you regard to be a BAD DEED and I will be more than happy to refute you.
So here is my challenge Mr Demsci:
Give me one example of something from the Hadith, which you consider to be a "bad deed", which is (according to you) the truth, yet part of a myth?
Over to you.
written by then lie , March 10, 2012
they say : Allah said Muhammad was sent for guiding people to Islam; He also said, Muhammad was not to guide.
ISLAM HAVE PERFECTED BY ALLAH(KING OF THE GOD) ALL MUSLIM KNOW. HOLY QURAN 5:3 This day are those who disbelieve in despair of (ever harming) your religion; so fear
them not, fear Me! This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen
for you as religion AL- ISLAM.
yusuf ali,picktal or sakir they good translator but if some body interpret holy quran he must be have 15 (mastered 15 branches of science) master 15 branches of science: 1. memorize quran
2. Arabic language proficient.
3. Arabic grammar
4. hadith master
5. master fiqh
6. master history of Islam
7. to know the reasons for the decline in quran
8. science bayan
9. science lughat
10. science maani
11. nasikh and masukh science
12. etc
who is the master Quran ? 1.Ibnu Abbas 2.Ibnu katsir in indonesia Quraish sihab etc
Now all the people back to islam after make reaserch inlike Prof DR Mauriche Buchile , Prof DR Tagatat Quran Tajasen, Allah open his mind about Holy Quran Prof DR Yahya Waloni x Priest in Indonesia
original Quran in arabic.
S U R A T A L - H I J R
15:9. Sesungguhnya Kami-lah yang menurunkan Al Qur'an, dan sesungguhnya Kami benar-benar memeliharanya.
15:9. Lo! We, even We, reveal the Reminder, and lo! We verily are it's Guardian.
nobody make Quran even one sura.
Allah save Quran
S U R A T A L - B A Q A R A H
2:23. Dan jika kamu (tetap) dalam keraguan tentang Al Qur'an yang Kami wahyukan kepada hamba Kami (Muhammad), buatlah satu surat (saja) yang semisal Al Qur'an itu dan ajaklah penolong-penolongmu selain Allah, jika kamu orang-orang yang benar.
23. And if ye are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a sura or the like thereof, and call your witnesses beside Allah if ye are truthful.
after 14 century no body make even arabian christian.this prove that Allah is true.and Quran is original.
ISLAM HAVE PERFECTED BY ALLAH(KING OF THE GOD) ALL MUSLIM KNOW. HOLY QURAN 5:3 This day are those who disbelieve in despair of (ever harming) your religion; so fear
them not, fear Me! This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen
for you as religion AL- ISLAM.
yusuf ali,picktal or sakir they good translator but if some body interpret holy quran he must be have 15 (mastered 15 branches of science) master 15 branches of science: 1. memorize quran
2. Arabic language proficient.
3. Arabic grammar
4. hadith master
5. master fiqh
6. master history of Islam
7. to know the reasons for the decline in quran
8. science bayan
9. science lughat
10. science maani
11. nasikh and masukh science
12. etc
who is the master Quran ? 1.Ibnu Abbas 2.Ibnu katsir in indonesia Quraish sihab etc
Now all the people back to islam after make reaserch inlike Prof DR Mauriche Buchile , Prof DR Tagatat Quran Tajasen, Allah open his mind about Holy Quran Prof DR Yahya Waloni x Priest in Indonesia
original Quran in arabic.
S U R A T A L - H I J R
15:9. Sesungguhnya Kami-lah yang menurunkan Al Qur'an, dan sesungguhnya Kami benar-benar memeliharanya.
15:9. Lo! We, even We, reveal the Reminder, and lo! We verily are it's Guardian.
nobody make Quran even one sura.
Allah save Quran
S U R A T A L - B A Q A R A H
2:23. Dan jika kamu (tetap) dalam keraguan tentang Al Qur'an yang Kami wahyukan kepada hamba Kami (Muhammad), buatlah satu surat (saja) yang semisal Al Qur'an itu dan ajaklah penolong-penolongmu selain Allah, jika kamu orang-orang yang benar.
23. And if ye are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a sura or the like thereof, and call your witnesses beside Allah if ye are truthful.
after 14 century no body make even arabian christian.this prove that Allah is true.and Quran is original.
written by Derek Adams , March 11, 2012
I actually laughed when I saw the username "M & P" say: "it uses the word invite not demand" after having just quote the embolded sentence that shows that the invitation to Islam was a threat:
"Muhammad used to send threatening letters to foreign kings to embrace Islam, warning that should they reject his invitation -- they would be attacked and their kingdoms snatched away.
Also the pure absurdity of his interpretation of 9:29 is demolished here:http://www.answeringabraham.co...xt-of.html.
Not only are the sources advocating a defensive view completely unreliable by Muslim Standards and Western Standards, they directly contradict the Quranic Ayatun.
What is more hilarious is the explanation come up with by "M & P" is not even an explanation accepted by those groups considered heretical by Sunni Muslims, let alone an acceptable common view inside the Sunni movement.
"Muhammad used to send threatening letters to foreign kings to embrace Islam, warning that should they reject his invitation -- they would be attacked and their kingdoms snatched away.
Also the pure absurdity of his interpretation of 9:29 is demolished here:http://www.answeringabraham.co...xt-of.html.
Not only are the sources advocating a defensive view completely unreliable by Muslim Standards and Western Standards, they directly contradict the Quranic Ayatun.
What is more hilarious is the explanation come up with by "M & P" is not even an explanation accepted by those groups considered heretical by Sunni Muslims, let alone an acceptable common view inside the Sunni movement.
written by Muslim & Proud , March 11, 2012
I actually laughed when I saw the username "M & P" say: "it uses the word invite not demand" after having just quote the embolded sentence that shows that the invitation to Islam was a threat:
"Muhammad used to send threatening letters to foreign kings to embrace Islam, warning that should they reject his invitation -- they would be attacked and their kingdoms snatched away.
Maybe during your laughter, you got confused about what we are actually talking about. The bit in bold was written by Khan in the opening statement of the article.
The letters indeed use the word "invite" and not demand.
written by Demsci , March 11, 2012
Muslim & Proud, thanks for reacting, I love to answer you.
In Islam Watch, Jihad Watch, FFI and such websites a multitude of words and deeds, written in Quran-Hadiths-Sira are revealed that are characterised as bad words and deeds. You know what they are; deathpenalty for apostasy, women-beating, oppression, second-rate citizen, half testimony in court, jizya for kafirs, massacres, rape, the list is long.
These words-deeds, characterised by counterjihadists as bad, these are the words-deeds that Muslims most of the time try to deny or interpret in a more favorite way. So there are plenty of words-deeds written in Quran-Hadiths-Sira that are controversial between Counterjihadists and Muslims.
Now, you seemed to write with satisfaction that even a neutral scholar like Tom Holland dismissed as mostly myth the massacres, pedophilic acts, rapes, murders and other misdeeds written in Hadiths-Sira especially, who are used by the Counterjihadists. But Tom Holland then of course also, and even more so, dismisses as largely myth, and thus untrue, big parts of Islam, written in Quran-Hadiths-Sira that are favorable to Islam.
But now it seems to me that your position is that all that is written in Quran-hadiths-Sira is true. And that the seemingly bad parts, which you seemed to deny in the past, only are wrongly interpreted, and so are also good, as well as true.
I can respect that position, as long as it does not lead to violating the golden rule.
But I think historian scientists give more truth than Muslims about the rise of Islam, and counter-jihadists often also. But perhaps the scientists are also reaching the truth better than counter-jihadists, even if it pains me to admit it.
In Islam Watch, Jihad Watch, FFI and such websites a multitude of words and deeds, written in Quran-Hadiths-Sira are revealed that are characterised as bad words and deeds. You know what they are; deathpenalty for apostasy, women-beating, oppression, second-rate citizen, half testimony in court, jizya for kafirs, massacres, rape, the list is long.
These words-deeds, characterised by counterjihadists as bad, these are the words-deeds that Muslims most of the time try to deny or interpret in a more favorite way. So there are plenty of words-deeds written in Quran-Hadiths-Sira that are controversial between Counterjihadists and Muslims.
Now, you seemed to write with satisfaction that even a neutral scholar like Tom Holland dismissed as mostly myth the massacres, pedophilic acts, rapes, murders and other misdeeds written in Hadiths-Sira especially, who are used by the Counterjihadists. But Tom Holland then of course also, and even more so, dismisses as largely myth, and thus untrue, big parts of Islam, written in Quran-Hadiths-Sira that are favorable to Islam.
But now it seems to me that your position is that all that is written in Quran-hadiths-Sira is true. And that the seemingly bad parts, which you seemed to deny in the past, only are wrongly interpreted, and so are also good, as well as true.
I can respect that position, as long as it does not lead to violating the golden rule.
But I think historian scientists give more truth than Muslims about the rise of Islam, and counter-jihadists often also. But perhaps the scientists are also reaching the truth better than counter-jihadists, even if it pains me to admit it.
written by Mozambique , March 11, 2012
I, the Prophet of Atheism dearly invite MP RZQ and MAL to accept atheism as the true religion or ELSE your homes will be attacked, men wll be killed and women will be treated as were treated by Mohammad (you know what i mean)!! So decide
MP RZQ and MAL what do you think my letter is threatening or just an Invitation??
written by fineliving56 , March 11, 2012
He says ...Allah is the ONLY authority and Muhammad only a messenger
I bring a refute from Qur'an that [ he believe the absolute truth ] and tell him [ as if he did not know ] that Allah said in ITS QUR'AN
"Muslims ordered to OBEY Allah and MUHAMMAD [ 48/17 ] ... that means Allah is not the only authority, Muhammad is an authority equals the authority of Allah's
Malam is wrong ... and he just ignores it.
OK by me.... as long as every reader knows it
I bring a refute from Qur'an that [ he believe the absolute truth ] and tell him [ as if he did not know ] that Allah said in ITS QUR'AN
"Muslims ordered to OBEY Allah and MUHAMMAD [ 48/17 ] ... that means Allah is not the only authority, Muhammad is an authority equals the authority of Allah's
Malam is wrong ... and he just ignores it.
OK by me.... as long as every reader knows it
written by Muslim and proud , March 11, 2012
"I, the Prophet of Atheism dearly invite MP RZQ and MAL to accept atheism as the true religion or ELSE your homes will be attacked, men wll be killed and women will be treated as were treated by Mohammad (you know what i mean)!"
The above is nothing like the letters in the article....
Try again
The above is nothing like the letters in the article....
Try again
written by duh_swami , March 11, 2012
The above is nothing like the letters in the article...
The wording is different, the principal is the same...What do you think the Mafia Boss meant when he said, 'Make them an offer they can't refuse'?
The wording is different, the principal is the same...What do you think the Mafia Boss meant when he said, 'Make them an offer they can't refuse'?
written by Muslim and proud , March 11, 2012
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17334646
"US President Barack Obama has phoned his Afghan counterpart Hamid Karzai to express condolences over the massacre of 16 villagers in Kandahar.
Nine children were killed along with adults in their homes when a US soldier based locally allegedly went on a gun rampage during the night."
"US President Barack Obama has phoned his Afghan counterpart Hamid Karzai to express condolences over the massacre of 16 villagers in Kandahar.
Nine children were killed along with adults in their homes when a US soldier based locally allegedly went on a gun rampage during the night."
written by Muslim and proud , March 11, 2012
"The wording is different, the principal is the same..."
The wording is different
The principal is........your interpretation
The wording is different
The principal is........your interpretation
written by duh_swami , March 11, 2012
The principal is........your interpretation
Why yes it is sweet boy, and it is correct...You win third prize for attendance an participation...
Why yes it is sweet boy, and it is correct...You win third prize for attendance an participation...
written by El Cid , March 11, 2012
Hey muslim and proud. Thank you for all the chuckles you have given me. I love to see the way your addled and atrophied brain trys to comprehend logic and reason.
written by Muslim & Proud , March 11, 2012
Have you not read the Qur'an, Hadiths . . . . If you had, as I have several times (know thy enemy) then you would know this. Or, do you believe that a 60 year old man should hump 9 year old girls? You are a fool and an idiot. In other words, a typical brain washed muslim drone.
So the Holy Qur'an and Hadiths are fact are they, according to "you"?
Please confirm?
written by Derek Adams , March 12, 2012
"The above is nothing like the letters in the article.... "
Yeah try reading the letter. "Accept Islam as your religion so that you may live in security, otherwise, you will be responsible for all the sins of the Magians."
Yeah try reading the letter. "Accept Islam as your religion so that you may live in security, otherwise, you will be responsible for all the sins of the Magians."
written by Malem , March 12, 2012
Regarding the roles of Mohammed and Allah, you can see from 27:91 For me, I have been commanded to serve the Lord of this city, Him Who has sanctified it and to Whom (belong) all things: and I am commanded to be of those who bow in Islam to Allah's Will, And to rehearse the Qur'an: and if any accept guidance, they do it for the good of their own souls, and if any stray, say: "I am only a Warner".So from this you can see Mohammed is to recite the Qur’an, so that whomever wishes, he can take guidance, says the preceding verse above. Again it emphasizes that it is only the Holy Quran whose propagation has been made as an obligation on the Mohammed and not vice versa.
It is clear that Allah is the authority of Islam, the Quran is its only message and guide which needs to followed.
It is clear that Allah is the authority of Islam, the Quran is its only message and guide which needs to followed.
written by Mozambique , March 12, 2012
"The above is nothing like the letters in the article.... "
Read letters to the weak rulers once again..there is a saying "for wise a signal is enough"
written by duh_swami , March 12, 2012
It is clear that Allah is the authority of Islam, the Quran is its only message and guide which needs to followed.
And just exactly how precise is the Quran to be followed? In minute detail? You believe and follow a fairy tale called Quran, authority, an invisible spook who sends demons with his holy word, to harm anyone who does not submit...How foolish to indulge oneself in such a evil and violent prone ideology...How warped a mentality who tries to defend it...
And just exactly how precise is the Quran to be followed? In minute detail? You believe and follow a fairy tale called Quran, authority, an invisible spook who sends demons with his holy word, to harm anyone who does not submit...How foolish to indulge oneself in such a evil and violent prone ideology...How warped a mentality who tries to defend it...
written by El Cid , March 12, 2012
El Sad - Facts Or Not?
written by Muslim & Proud , March 11, 2012
Have you not read the Qur'an, Hadiths . . . . If you had, as I have several times (know thy enemy) then you would know this. Or, do you believe that a 60 year old man should hump 9 year old girls? You are a fool and an idiot. In other words, a typical brain washed muslim drone.
So the Holy Qur'an and Hadiths are fact are they, according to "you"?
Please confirm?
You must be retarded. Inbreeding IS common amongst the heathens.
written by Muslim & Proud , March 11, 2012
Have you not read the Qur'an, Hadiths . . . . If you had, as I have several times (know thy enemy) then you would know this. Or, do you believe that a 60 year old man should hump 9 year old girls? You are a fool and an idiot. In other words, a typical brain washed muslim drone.
So the Holy Qur'an and Hadiths are fact are they, according to "you"?
Please confirm?
You must be retarded. Inbreeding IS common amongst the heathens.
written by duh_swami , March 12, 2012
So the Holy Qur'an and Hadiths are fact are they, according to "you"?
Please confirm?
Since these are your books, it is up to you to confirm their validity to kuffar, not the other way around...You can do that, can't you?
Please confirm?
Since these are your books, it is up to you to confirm their validity to kuffar, not the other way around...You can do that, can't you?
written by lw1 , March 12, 2012
BBC 11/3/2012. Iraq militias kill 'emo' youths
Dozens of Iraqi teenagers have been killed in recent months by militias who consider them to be devil worshippers, human rights activists claim.
The young people are described as 'emos', a term used in the West to refer to youths who listen to rock music and wear alternative clothing.
Reports say that up to 58 teenagers have been beaten to death or shot in the last month, most of them men.
Iraq's Interior Ministry recently described 'emos' as devil worshippers.
Dozens of Iraqi teenagers have been killed in recent months by militias who consider them to be devil worshippers, human rights activists claim.
The young people are described as 'emos', a term used in the West to refer to youths who listen to rock music and wear alternative clothing.
Reports say that up to 58 teenagers have been beaten to death or shot in the last month, most of them men.
Iraq's Interior Ministry recently described 'emos' as devil worshippers.
written by Muslim and proud , March 12, 2012
"So the Holy Qur'an and Hadiths are fact are they, according to "you"? "
Please confirm.
This is a very easy question for you....
Good luck
Please confirm.
This is a very easy question for you....
Good luck
written by lw1 , March 12, 2012
Many of the posters on this site do not believe in 'Holy' Quran and Hadith, but we read them to expose hatred and threats which are taken to heart by some Muslims and they use violence to further what they believe is their cause.
We don't believe in these two books and we do not have to justify reading them, as we do not use or advocate violence. You should address Muslims who use violence and threats to spread Islam.
We don't believe in these two books and we do not have to justify reading them, as we do not use or advocate violence. You should address Muslims who use violence and threats to spread Islam.
written by duh_swami , March 12, 2012
"So the Holy Qur'an and Hadiths are fact are they, according to "you"? "
Please confirm.
This is a very easy question for you....
Good luck
I'm waiting for your confirmation and proof M&Pious sweetest boy...If you can't do it, you lose...
Please confirm.
This is a very easy question for you....
Good luck
I'm waiting for your confirmation and proof M&Pious sweetest boy...If you can't do it, you lose...
written by Muslim and proud , March 12, 2012
"Many of the posters on this site do not believe in 'Holy' Quran and Hadith"
The question was, are they factual according to you?
Please confirm
The question was, are they factual according to you?
Please confirm
written by Muslim and proud , March 12, 2012
""So the Holy Qur'an and Hadiths are fact are they, according to "you"?"
Absolutely - without doubt
Absolutely - without doubt
written by lw1 , March 12, 2012
There are many mistakes in Quran, but the question is irrelevant because if there are a few true facts and a few mistakes, the answer cannot be yes or no. your concern should be more about the Muslims who use violence and threats in name of Islam.
written by Muslim & Proud , March 12, 2012
Thank you for your response.
I am concerned about the 'muslims' who commit violence through misinterpretation.
"the answer cannot be yes or no"
So if the answer cannot be a yes or a no, how can an extremist ex-muslim or non-muslim make accusations like: Murder, looting etc?
The people making accusations, do so by referring to the Hadith, which according to you, cannot be classed as factual (according to them).
I am concerned about the 'muslims' who commit violence through misinterpretation.
"the answer cannot be yes or no"
So if the answer cannot be a yes or a no, how can an extremist ex-muslim or non-muslim make accusations like: Murder, looting etc?
The people making accusations, do so by referring to the Hadith, which according to you, cannot be classed as factual (according to them).
written by duh_swami , March 12, 2012
""So the Holy Qur'an and Hadiths are fact are they, according to "you"?"
Absolutely - without doubt
My dearest friend ever...I asked you to provide proof and you didn't do it...If these books are true in their content you should be able to prove it...I'm waiting for the truth...and the proof...
Absolutely - without doubt
My dearest friend ever...I asked you to provide proof and you didn't do it...If these books are true in their content you should be able to prove it...I'm waiting for the truth...and the proof...
written by El Cid , March 12, 2012
Tel me, Muslim and proud . . . Is the world Really flat? And, precisely, where is this muddy swamp in which (according to Mo and the koran) the sun sets every night? I have traveled the whole world and I have yet to find it. But is is in the koran so it MUST be factual, right?
written by Yibel , March 13, 2012
Muhammad's god threw down mountains to stablize the flat earth so it would not shake when people moved about on it:
Sura Luqman 31:10 "He has created the (7) heavens without supports that you can see, and has cast (alqa) onto the earth firm mountains (rawasiya) lest it should shake with you (tamida bikum) ..."
In the Prophets (Al-Anibiya') 21:31 "And We have set on the earth firm mountains (rawasiya), lest it should shake with them (tamida bihim)."
In the Bee (Al-Nahl) 16:15 "And He has cast onto the earth firm mountains (rawasiya) lest it should shake with you… (tamida bikum) "
Narrated Anas ibn Malik
Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said, "When Allah created the Earth it began to oscillate, so He created the mountains, ordered them onto it, and it became steady. The angels marvelled at the strength of the mountains and asked their Lord whether there was anything in His creation stronger than the mountains, to which He replied that iron was stronger. They asked if anything in His creation was stronger than iron, and He replied that fire was. They asked if anything in His creation was stronger than fire and He replied that water was. They asked if anything in His creation was stronger than water and He replied that wind was. They asked if anything in His creation was stronger than wind and He replied, "Yes, the son of Adam who gives sadaqah with his right hand which concealing it from his left." Tirmidhi transmitted it, saying this is a gharib tradition. (Al-Tirmidhi, Number 602)
Sura Luqman 31:10 "He has created the (7) heavens without supports that you can see, and has cast (alqa) onto the earth firm mountains (rawasiya) lest it should shake with you (tamida bikum) ..."
In the Prophets (Al-Anibiya') 21:31 "And We have set on the earth firm mountains (rawasiya), lest it should shake with them (tamida bihim)."
In the Bee (Al-Nahl) 16:15 "And He has cast onto the earth firm mountains (rawasiya) lest it should shake with you… (tamida bikum) "
Narrated Anas ibn Malik
Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said, "When Allah created the Earth it began to oscillate, so He created the mountains, ordered them onto it, and it became steady. The angels marvelled at the strength of the mountains and asked their Lord whether there was anything in His creation stronger than the mountains, to which He replied that iron was stronger. They asked if anything in His creation was stronger than iron, and He replied that fire was. They asked if anything in His creation was stronger than fire and He replied that water was. They asked if anything in His creation was stronger than water and He replied that wind was. They asked if anything in His creation was stronger than wind and He replied, "Yes, the son of Adam who gives sadaqah with his right hand which concealing it from his left." Tirmidhi transmitted it, saying this is a gharib tradition. (Al-Tirmidhi, Number 602)
written by Muslim & Proud , March 13, 2012
Tel me, Muslim and proud . . . Is the world Really flat? And, precisely, where is this muddy swamp in which (according to Mo and the koran) the sun sets every night? I have traveled the whole world and I have yet to find it. But is is in the koran so it MUST be factual, right?
You continue to dodge the all important question:
According to YOU, arer the Holy Qur'an and Hadith factual?
Yes or No
Ps. For a non muslim, this question is a no-brainer ;-)
written by bundypig , March 13, 2012
who cares if the are factual? Your big question time and time again, but who knows? The important thing is: majority of Muslims believe it so.
Do you have any idea of the concept of "chinese whispers"? That's what the koran and hadith are, somebody said, somebody said and on and on. But the fact remains, muzzies take them as *factual* and kill the world over. So again, your logic is complete BS.
We know that a lot of the koran is based on Greek and other studies, copied even with the mistakes. And that most of the *good* verses are copied from Judism and Christianity, so that just leaves the crap, that you believe.
Do you have any idea of the concept of "chinese whispers"? That's what the koran and hadith are, somebody said, somebody said and on and on. But the fact remains, muzzies take them as *factual* and kill the world over. So again, your logic is complete BS.
We know that a lot of the koran is based on Greek and other studies, copied even with the mistakes. And that most of the *good* verses are copied from Judism and Christianity, so that just leaves the crap, that you believe.
written by El Cid , March 13, 2012
No, Muslim and stupid. You obviously have no concept of sarcasm. The koran and all the associated ranting likewise are pure fiction (and BAD fiction at that). You continue to dodge the questions. Does the sun set in a muddy swamp at night and is the earth flat?
written by lw1 , March 13, 2012
Thank you for your response.
When I say 'the answer cannot be a yes or a no' I am talking only about your question regarding 'Holy' Quran and Hadith -- 'So the Holy Quran and Hadith are fact are according to you?'
Your next question 'So if the answer cannot be a yes or a no, how can an extremist ex-muslim or non-muslim make accusation of murder,looting etc?' is irrelevant. Accusation of murder, looting is not dependent on religion.
When I say 'the answer cannot be a yes or a no' I am talking only about your question regarding 'Holy' Quran and Hadith -- 'So the Holy Quran and Hadith are fact are according to you?'
Your next question 'So if the answer cannot be a yes or a no, how can an extremist ex-muslim or non-muslim make accusation of murder,looting etc?' is irrelevant. Accusation of murder, looting is not dependent on religion.
written by Muslim & Proud , March 13, 2012
You obviously have no concept of sarcasm. The koran and all the associated ranting likewise are pure fiction (and BAD fiction at that).
Thank you for confirming your position.
Here is what you said on 9th March:
Do you deny these charges against OlMo? Are these things not true as evidenced by your own fairytales (Koran)
You are a complete joke........
written by duh_swami , March 13, 2012
You are a complete joke...
The complete joke is in the mirror...
LOL
LOL
KOL
The complete joke is in the mirror...
LOL
LOL
KOL
written by Muslim and proud , March 13, 2012
" Accusation of murder, looting is not dependent on religion"
So what is the dependancy then Lw1?
So what is the dependancy then Lw1?
written by El Cid , March 13, 2012
So answer the question Muslim and Proud. Where is this swamp in which the sun sets each night? Show me the location of this swamp and I will bow down to ol mo.
written by El Cid , March 13, 2012
The Socratic method (also known as method of elenchus, elenctic method, Socratic irony, or Socratic debate), named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates, is a form of inquiry and debate between individuals with opposing viewpoints based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to illuminate ideas. This is a form of logic and reasoning foreign to mind addled muslims so I can see where you might be confused, muslim and proud. You are excused from further debate with the grown ups.
written by Muslim & Proud , March 13, 2012
The Socratic method (also known as method of elenchus, elenctic method, Socratic irony, or Socratic debate), named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates, is a form of inquiry and debate between individuals with opposing viewpoints based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to illuminate ideas. This is a form of logic and reasoning foreign to mind addled muslims so I can see where you might be confused, muslim and proud. You are excused from further debate with the grown ups.
Where does it say that it is "grown up" to be a hypocrite. You blew it sunshine. Here is a reminder of your "grown up" hypocrisy:
9th March:
"Do you deny these charges against OlMo? Are these things not true as evidenced by your own fairytales (Koran)"
13th March:
"You obviously have no concept of sarcasm. The koran and all the associated ranting likewise are pure fiction (and BAD fiction at that)."
So on the one hand Mr Grown Up, you insisted these things were true, yet on the other hand, you said it was all fiction........
Very grown up indeed Mr El Sad.
written by SAFFRONblood , March 13, 2012
MR MUSLIM AND STUPID
if someone invites you, and you reject that invitation for what ever reason, does the inviter hold a grudge against the person they invited?...Answer should be no, because LIKE YOU SAID its an invitation, NOT A DEMAND........AGREE?....
Now Mohammed had written very polite letters saying to the KAFIR KINGS, PLEASE accept islam, and you will find protection from us...........NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Its at this part your LOGIC STOP.
Now when Kafir kings REJECTED ISLAM, rejected his invite to become part of the arab empire, turned his invite down and said NO THANKS.
Did mohamed then say...OK FINE SEE YOU BYEE, I WISH YOUR PEOPLE, CULTURE AND FAITH all the best?..
.IS that what mohameed said after the rejection of the INVITE?...
Or did mohammed state in that VERY SAME INVITATION, threaten those who did not accept the pleasent invite?
So did mohammed accept Persia as a kafir state, and left them to be happy with themselves, Or did ARABS attack persia, as they did the north african states, eastern europe, northern india?
in other words ARE YOU NOW SAYING THAT ISLAM ACCEPTS OTHER FAITSH, CULTURE, AND PEOPLE AS THE ONE UNIVERSAL TRUTH..................or does it mean that EVEN after an invite, even after you pleasantly reject, that EVERYONE MUST BOW DOWN TO ARABS ALLAH AND THEIR CULTURE, AND SHARIA LAW?
IF the answer is YES mohammed accepts the unviersal truth that is in all faiths, and people, and culture...THEN PLEASE GIVE THOSE QUOTES!
if someone invites you, and you reject that invitation for what ever reason, does the inviter hold a grudge against the person they invited?...Answer should be no, because LIKE YOU SAID its an invitation, NOT A DEMAND........AGREE?....
Now Mohammed had written very polite letters saying to the KAFIR KINGS, PLEASE accept islam, and you will find protection from us...........NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Its at this part your LOGIC STOP.
Now when Kafir kings REJECTED ISLAM, rejected his invite to become part of the arab empire, turned his invite down and said NO THANKS.
Did mohamed then say...OK FINE SEE YOU BYEE, I WISH YOUR PEOPLE, CULTURE AND FAITH all the best?..
.IS that what mohameed said after the rejection of the INVITE?...
Or did mohammed state in that VERY SAME INVITATION, threaten those who did not accept the pleasent invite?
So did mohammed accept Persia as a kafir state, and left them to be happy with themselves, Or did ARABS attack persia, as they did the north african states, eastern europe, northern india?
in other words ARE YOU NOW SAYING THAT ISLAM ACCEPTS OTHER FAITSH, CULTURE, AND PEOPLE AS THE ONE UNIVERSAL TRUTH..................or does it mean that EVEN after an invite, even after you pleasantly reject, that EVERYONE MUST BOW DOWN TO ARABS ALLAH AND THEIR CULTURE, AND SHARIA LAW?
IF the answer is YES mohammed accepts the unviersal truth that is in all faiths, and people, and culture...THEN PLEASE GIVE THOSE QUOTES!
written by Muslim & Proud , March 13, 2012
Please try and follow the debate.
The debate is about the letters.......try and keep up.
Where in the letters does it say anything about "warning" or "demand"?
Please confirm
Ps. Some of these kings, even after rejecting the invite, sent gifts Mr Saffronblood - that's how much of a threat the letters were.
The debate is about the letters.......try and keep up.
Where in the letters does it say anything about "warning" or "demand"?
Please confirm
Ps. Some of these kings, even after rejecting the invite, sent gifts Mr Saffronblood - that's how much of a threat the letters were.
written by rzq , March 13, 2012
The some old tired rubbish! The set in a muddy spring blah blah blah!
Read study and weep
http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2005/quranic-commentary-on-sura-al-kahf-1886/
Read study and weep
http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2005/quranic-commentary-on-sura-al-kahf-1886/
written by SAFFRONblood , March 13, 2012
the QUESTION IS VERY SIMPLE...stupid and muslim
Does arab allah accept the universal truth in dffnrt faiths, cultures, and peoples as part of the ONE UNIVERSAL TRUTH........
or does it mean THAT EVERY ONE ELSE, must submit to the ONE ARAB GOD CALLED ALLAH...and their sharia law?
_____________________
But tell me again IF i write a invitation to YOU, and you reject it, What would you expect?....
So the invasion of persia was BASED ON WHAT?, was it not based on the ARAB ALLAH ideological stance, that EVERYONE to submit to arabs allah?.....Or are you now saying that the KORAN fully accepts differnt religons and faiths!
TWO DIFFERENT question for you, which you have not ANSWERED!
is ARAB ALLAH A UNIVERSAL GOD?
IF an invite offers protection and in the VERY SAME LINE, gives the punishment for not acceptance,
CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE PARAMETERS OF AN INVITE IS THEN?
lol
____________
ARABS are the most NOBLE people in lineage, the most prominent, and the BEST in deeds. We fight PEOPLE UNTILL they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has PROTECTED his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in Allah’s Cause. Killing him is a SMALL matter to us.
Al-Tabari, Vol. 9,
__________________________-
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Qur'an 9:5
the ABOVE IS AN INVITE YES OR NO? and at the same time a threat YES OR NO?
the ARAB and their SLAVE POPULATION the mawalis, the client slave workers of arabs, known as muslims, are made to follow arab food rules, arab wedding rules, arab dress, arab ideology, arab sharia law, and must bow down and face arabs!...So muslim and stupid, PLEASE inform us what is the STANCE of islam against KAFIR FAITHS, PEOPLES AND CULTURES..........
i wait for your logic! :):):)
Does arab allah accept the universal truth in dffnrt faiths, cultures, and peoples as part of the ONE UNIVERSAL TRUTH........
or does it mean THAT EVERY ONE ELSE, must submit to the ONE ARAB GOD CALLED ALLAH...and their sharia law?
_____________________
But tell me again IF i write a invitation to YOU, and you reject it, What would you expect?....
So the invasion of persia was BASED ON WHAT?, was it not based on the ARAB ALLAH ideological stance, that EVERYONE to submit to arabs allah?.....Or are you now saying that the KORAN fully accepts differnt religons and faiths!
TWO DIFFERENT question for you, which you have not ANSWERED!
is ARAB ALLAH A UNIVERSAL GOD?
IF an invite offers protection and in the VERY SAME LINE, gives the punishment for not acceptance,
CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE PARAMETERS OF AN INVITE IS THEN?
lol
____________
ARABS are the most NOBLE people in lineage, the most prominent, and the BEST in deeds. We fight PEOPLE UNTILL they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has PROTECTED his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in Allah’s Cause. Killing him is a SMALL matter to us.
Al-Tabari, Vol. 9,
__________________________-
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Qur'an 9:5
the ABOVE IS AN INVITE YES OR NO? and at the same time a threat YES OR NO?
the ARAB and their SLAVE POPULATION the mawalis, the client slave workers of arabs, known as muslims, are made to follow arab food rules, arab wedding rules, arab dress, arab ideology, arab sharia law, and must bow down and face arabs!...So muslim and stupid, PLEASE inform us what is the STANCE of islam against KAFIR FAITHS, PEOPLES AND CULTURES..........
i wait for your logic! :):):)
written by SAFFRONblood , March 13, 2012
I am now getting very very frustated that NO muslim can DEFEND their arab masters faith!!..PLEASE can a faithfull MUSLIM, i thought proud and muslim may have the FOCUS to answer my SIMPLE QUESTION....but again he refused to answer and reveal his own weak postion.I need JUST ONE ANSWER........to prove that MOHAMMED was more intelligent that ME!!..AND if you cant then I HAVE logically destroyed mohammed and his backward illierate faith of the desert.GOD HAS TO BE UNIVERSAL FOR GOD TO BE TRUE.......for no UNIVERSAL GOD would make a mockery of what truth means.SO PROUD AND MUSLIM........i need just one answer which in turn answers the question posed in this topic.
Does arabs allah accept diffrnt faiths, people, cultures around the world, as part of the ONE UNIVERSAL TRUTH, or does it mean that EVERYONE ELSE, from africa, to china, to america, to the arctic, have to bow down and submit to the ONE ARAB GOD CALLED ALLAH AND THEIR SHARIA LAW AND CULTURE???
(Where muslim of today around the world are made to follow arab food rules, arab wedding rules, arab sharia law, arab punishment methods, arab names, arab dress, arab ideology, and have to Bow down and FACE ARABIA)
_______________________________________________________
___________________________________
The QUESTION IS VERY SIMPLE.
Does arab allah accept dffnrt faiths, cultures, peoples, as part of the ONE UNIVERSAL TRUTH........
or does it mean THAT EVERY ONE ELSE, must submit to the ONE ARAB GOD CALLED ALLAH...and their sharia law?
Does arabs allah accept diffrnt faiths, people, cultures around the world, as part of the ONE UNIVERSAL TRUTH, or does it mean that EVERYONE ELSE, from africa, to china, to america, to the arctic, have to bow down and submit to the ONE ARAB GOD CALLED ALLAH AND THEIR SHARIA LAW AND CULTURE???
(Where muslim of today around the world are made to follow arab food rules, arab wedding rules, arab sharia law, arab punishment methods, arab names, arab dress, arab ideology, and have to Bow down and FACE ARABIA)
_______________________________________________________
___________________________________
The QUESTION IS VERY SIMPLE.
Does arab allah accept dffnrt faiths, cultures, peoples, as part of the ONE UNIVERSAL TRUTH........
or does it mean THAT EVERY ONE ELSE, must submit to the ONE ARAB GOD CALLED ALLAH...and their sharia law?
written by rzq , March 13, 2012
"Does arab allah accept dffnrt faiths, cultures, peoples, as part of the ONE UNIVERSAL TRUTH........"
Sure he does! Define universal truth? Allah(swt) is the universal truth!
Sure he does! Define universal truth? Allah(swt) is the universal truth!
written by SAFFRONblood , March 13, 2012
''Sure he does! Define universal truth? Allah(swt) is the universal truth!''
does islam accept other faiths to exist?....
its a simple question?...does arab islam accept that other faiths lead to the one path of god? or does it mean that everyone else has to sumnbit to arab food rules, arab wedding rules, arab sharia law, arab punishment methods, arab names, arab dress, arab ideology, and have to Bow down n face arabia and have to submit to the arab god called allah?
for example, does islam accept that all paths lead to one? meaning that any good person regardless of faith, be them athiest, a kafir, non beliver, christian, jew, sikh, hindu, buddhist or jain?
or does it mean...
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Qur'an 9:5
does islam accept other faiths to exist?....
its a simple question?...does arab islam accept that other faiths lead to the one path of god? or does it mean that everyone else has to sumnbit to arab food rules, arab wedding rules, arab sharia law, arab punishment methods, arab names, arab dress, arab ideology, and have to Bow down n face arabia and have to submit to the arab god called allah?
for example, does islam accept that all paths lead to one? meaning that any good person regardless of faith, be them athiest, a kafir, non beliver, christian, jew, sikh, hindu, buddhist or jain?
or does it mean...
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Qur'an 9:5
written by SAFFRONblood , March 13, 2012
please provide evidence that arabs allah accepts other faiths and good people as part of the one universal truth....accepting christians, hindus, jews, buddhist, jains, sikhs, and others.
thanks.
also you didnt answer the previous question about the invitation.
IF an invite offers protection in accepting their invite, and in the VERY SAME LINE, gives the punishment for not acceptance,
CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE PARAMETERS OF AN INVITE IS THEN? and what was the ACTUAL choice?...
thanks.
also you didnt answer the previous question about the invitation.
IF an invite offers protection in accepting their invite, and in the VERY SAME LINE, gives the punishment for not acceptance,
CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE PARAMETERS OF AN INVITE IS THEN? and what was the ACTUAL choice?...
written by SAFFRONblood , March 13, 2012
Actually define what GOD means in islam! and wha...t ONE... god means in islam! also if you can can is islam an arab centric religon?...meaning does one have to accept arab wedding rules, arab ideology, arab food rules, arab sharia law, arab names, arab punshiment, and have to bow down and face in the direction of arabs and how is that is universal?
written by SAFFRONblood , March 13, 2012
GOD HAS TO BE UNIVERSAL FOR GOD TO BE TRUE.......for no UNIVERSAL GOD would make a mockery of what truth means.
Their are no references in islamic scirpture about capturing, plundering booty, rejecting, enslaving, conquering, enforcing tax, converting, attacking other religous beleifs and people?
Their are no references in islamic scirpture about capturing, plundering booty, rejecting, enslaving, conquering, enforcing tax, converting, attacking other religous beleifs and people?
written by SAFFRONblood , March 13, 2012
"Does arab allah accept dffnrt faiths, cultures, peoples, as part of the ONE UNIVERSAL TRUTH........"
Sure he does! Define universal truth?
____________________-
''Sure he does'' and then you ask me to define what universal truth is....???
Sure he does! Define universal truth?
____________________-
''Sure he does'' and then you ask me to define what universal truth is....???
written by rzq , March 13, 2012
You ask alot of rubbish! Let's play along!
"its a simple question?...does arab islam accept that other faiths lead to the one path of god? or does it mean that everyone else has to sumnbit to arab food rules, arab wedding rules, arab sharia law, arab punishment methods, arab names, arab dress, arab ideology, and have to Bow down n face arabia and have to submit to the arab god called allah?"
Yes to first question, have you tasted Arab food? It sucks! Arab shariah law???
Shariah law is Islamic not Arabic. You see you bigots think Arab equals Muslim but in reality Arabs are a minority when it comes to Muslims! Arabs can be Jews, Christians and pagans. Muslims are under no obligation to do anything Arabic. They are under obligation to things by Islam!
There is a big difference!
"its a simple question?...does arab islam accept that other faiths lead to the one path of god? or does it mean that everyone else has to sumnbit to arab food rules, arab wedding rules, arab sharia law, arab punishment methods, arab names, arab dress, arab ideology, and have to Bow down n face arabia and have to submit to the arab god called allah?"
Yes to first question, have you tasted Arab food? It sucks! Arab shariah law???
Shariah law is Islamic not Arabic. You see you bigots think Arab equals Muslim but in reality Arabs are a minority when it comes to Muslims! Arabs can be Jews, Christians and pagans. Muslims are under no obligation to do anything Arabic. They are under obligation to things by Islam!
There is a big difference!
written by rzq , March 13, 2012
"for example, does islam accept that all paths lead to one? meaning that any good person regardless of faith, be them athiest, a kafir, non beliver, christian, jew, sikh, hindu, buddhist or jain?"
Have you been watching the wizard of oz? All paths lead to the wizard, NO!!!
What's a good person??? What criterion are you using?? What defines your good and bad???
Have you been watching the wizard of oz? All paths lead to the wizard, NO!!!
What's a good person??? What criterion are you using?? What defines your good and bad???
written by rzq , March 13, 2012
Very clever surah 9 verse 5
Islamophobe favourite! Go get a proper tafseer of the Quran and read all about it! I would recommend mariful quran by Mohammed shafi!
Parameters of your invite are simple
"Allah (S.W.T) said in surat Al-Imran, (Verse 110), what can be translated as, "You are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind, you enjoin Al-Ma'ruf and forbid Al-Munkar"
If the people who were given invites and were practicing the above then no problem.
However if the people who recieved the invite were practicing munkar then a clash was inevitable! You cannot make peace with evil opressors!
So the choice is deal with justice and we have no beef!
If you choose to opress then we have a beef!
Islamophobe favourite! Go get a proper tafseer of the Quran and read all about it! I would recommend mariful quran by Mohammed shafi!
Parameters of your invite are simple
"Allah (S.W.T) said in surat Al-Imran, (Verse 110), what can be translated as, "You are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind, you enjoin Al-Ma'ruf and forbid Al-Munkar"
If the people who were given invites and were practicing the above then no problem.
However if the people who recieved the invite were practicing munkar then a clash was inevitable! You cannot make peace with evil opressors!
So the choice is deal with justice and we have no beef!
If you choose to opress then we have a beef!
written by Muslim and proud , March 14, 2012
Salaam Bro
Re Wizard of Oz.....that was quality.
SaffronBlood needs to realise that he can do the research himself - that way he might actually learn something.
Re Wizard of Oz.....that was quality.
SaffronBlood needs to realise that he can do the research himself - that way he might actually learn something.
written by Yibel , March 14, 2012
(Pickthall): "Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarnayn! Either punish or show them kindness." Quran 18:86
And the sun doesn't just set in a pool of black mud, it also rises in the east "upon a people whom WE (Muhammad's gods Ar-Rahman/Ar-Raheem and A-l-Muqtadir, The Determiner) exposed to its flaming rays." (Qur'an 18:86) According to the Qur'an, Dhu'l-Qarnayn traveled on a road that took him to the east where the sun rises and burns people's skins because Muhammad's god put them to close to the sun's flaming rays! Qur'an 18:89 What a god!!!
The fact that the Qur'an states that the sun rises and sets fits with the Qur'anic concept that the earth is flat like a carpet covered by a solid roof (21: 32) called the sky. Actually there are 7 skies (Q. 67:3) one above the other, and the stars, the sun and the moon have been placed in the lowest sky where they "swim in the paths designated for them." Also the stars rise and set (Q.81:15) and Muhammad's gods swear by them.
The late chief cleric of Saudi Arabia, Grand Mufti Abd al-Aziz ibn Abd Allah ibn Baaz, the Chancellor of the Islamic University of Madinah (1970-1975), and the Chairman of Saudi Arabia's Department of Scientific Research from 1975, issued a fatwa in 1976, based on the Qur'an that the Earth is flat, and anyone, who said otherwise, was blaspheming.
The same cleric had issued another Qur'an-based fatwa in 1966, claiming that the Earth did not revolve, or orbit the Sun; instead the Sun orbits the Earth. He reiterated this in yet another fatwa in 1982, saying that the Sun orbited the Earth, and that anyone, who did disagree with him, would be declared an infidel.
And the sun doesn't just set in a pool of black mud, it also rises in the east "upon a people whom WE (Muhammad's gods Ar-Rahman/Ar-Raheem and A-l-Muqtadir, The Determiner) exposed to its flaming rays." (Qur'an 18:86) According to the Qur'an, Dhu'l-Qarnayn traveled on a road that took him to the east where the sun rises and burns people's skins because Muhammad's god put them to close to the sun's flaming rays! Qur'an 18:89 What a god!!!
The fact that the Qur'an states that the sun rises and sets fits with the Qur'anic concept that the earth is flat like a carpet covered by a solid roof (21: 32) called the sky. Actually there are 7 skies (Q. 67:3) one above the other, and the stars, the sun and the moon have been placed in the lowest sky where they "swim in the paths designated for them." Also the stars rise and set (Q.81:15) and Muhammad's gods swear by them.
The late chief cleric of Saudi Arabia, Grand Mufti Abd al-Aziz ibn Abd Allah ibn Baaz, the Chancellor of the Islamic University of Madinah (1970-1975), and the Chairman of Saudi Arabia's Department of Scientific Research from 1975, issued a fatwa in 1976, based on the Qur'an that the Earth is flat, and anyone, who said otherwise, was blaspheming.
The same cleric had issued another Qur'an-based fatwa in 1966, claiming that the Earth did not revolve, or orbit the Sun; instead the Sun orbits the Earth. He reiterated this in yet another fatwa in 1982, saying that the Sun orbited the Earth, and that anyone, who did disagree with him, would be declared an infidel.
written by rzq , March 14, 2012
the parameters of the invite are this:
"Allah (S.W.T) said in surat Al-Imran, (Verse 110), what can be translated as, "You are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind, you enjoin Al-Ma'ruf and forbid Al-Munkar"
If the leaders were doing the above then there would have been no reason for the Islamic state to do anything! Unfortunately for them they were transgressing and opressing. Look it's quite simple, nobody likes a foreign force on their soil! The natural instinct is to fight back! Ask yourself why it was so easy for Islam to expand???
The populations if these kingdoms wanted rid of opression and hence rebelled against their rulers and demanded that Islam be applied!
"Allah (S.W.T) said in surat Al-Imran, (Verse 110), what can be translated as, "You are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind, you enjoin Al-Ma'ruf and forbid Al-Munkar"
If the leaders were doing the above then there would have been no reason for the Islamic state to do anything! Unfortunately for them they were transgressing and opressing. Look it's quite simple, nobody likes a foreign force on their soil! The natural instinct is to fight back! Ask yourself why it was so easy for Islam to expand???
The populations if these kingdoms wanted rid of opression and hence rebelled against their rulers and demanded that Islam be applied!
written by rzq , March 14, 2012
God has defined himself:
"In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
Say: He is Allah, the One!
Allah, the eternally Besought of all!
He begetteth not nor was begotten.
And there is none comparable unto Him."
Why do you insist on saying you have to be an Arab!
In Islam, the Arabs are a minority. So no I don't have to talk or walk like an Arab.
"In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
Say: He is Allah, the One!
Allah, the eternally Besought of all!
He begetteth not nor was begotten.
And there is none comparable unto Him."
Why do you insist on saying you have to be an Arab!
In Islam, the Arabs are a minority. So no I don't have to talk or walk like an Arab.
written by rzq , March 14, 2012
Salams brother
It really amazes me that these apostates leave is Islam and they have not even bothered to contemplate the basics. Then they come on hate sites like this looking for somekind of affirmation! They sound out the same old refuted trash.
See yibels post as an example. It's sad man!!!
It really amazes me that these apostates leave is Islam and they have not even bothered to contemplate the basics. Then they come on hate sites like this looking for somekind of affirmation! They sound out the same old refuted trash.
See yibels post as an example. It's sad man!!!
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 14, 2012
"See yibels post as an example. It's sad man!!! "
Why not refute Yibel post instead you are here trying to weep up sentiment with your brother. You people are begining to see scientific revelation in the Quran even when the Quran is clearly oppose to science.
Why can't defend your indefendable hallucination of a mad man.
Why not refute Yibel post instead you are here trying to weep up sentiment with your brother. You people are begining to see scientific revelation in the Quran even when the Quran is clearly oppose to science.
Why can't defend your indefendable hallucination of a mad man.
written by bundypig , March 14, 2012
you 2 are always good for a laugh...Yibel blows you out of the water and you just carry on with inane bullshite and quote a non-existant god that gives you eternal hard-ons with whores and little boys...great stuff
written by duh_swami , March 14, 2012
Why can't defend your indefendable hallucination of a mad man.
Because Muslims prefer dishonesty over truth or facts...Muslim dishonesty fills these threads...
Because Muslims prefer dishonesty over truth or facts...Muslim dishonesty fills these threads...
written by SAFFRONblood , March 14, 2012
ARABS are the most NOBLE people in lineage, the most prominent, and the BEST in deeds. We fight PEOPLE UNTILL they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has PROTECTED his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in Allah’s Cause. Killing him is a SMALL matter to us.
Al-Tabari, Vol. 9,
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Qur'an 9:5
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Kafirs wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving.
Qur'an 9:5
Narrated Jabir bin Samura: I heard the Prophet saying, "There will be twelve Muslim rulers (who will rule all the Islamic world)." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, "All of them (those rulers) will be from Quraish."
Sahih Bukhari 9:89:329
li Ibn Abi Talib, said: Verily the Prophet said: God divided the earth in two halves and placed (me) in the better of the two, then He divided the half in three parts, and I was in the best of them, then He chose the Arabs from among the people, then He chose the Quraysh from among the Arabs, then He chose the children of ‘Abd al-Muttalib from among the Banu Hashim, then he chose me from among the children of ‘Abd al-Muttalib, and from them he chose me.[1]
Ibn Sa'd, Vol. 1, p. 12
The Hadith vol 1, no. 367 Anas, one of Muhammad's trusted companions "saw the WHITENESS of the penis of Allah's prophet"
when A'isha (Muhammad's wife) had a maid-slave who was an Arab, Muhammad said to A'isha,
`Set this maid free because she is from the children of ISHMAEL (ARABS).'"
Ibn Timiyya, Vol. 31, pp. 376-377
_____________________________________-
Al-Tabari, Vol. 9,
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Qur'an 9:5
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Kafirs wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving.
Qur'an 9:5
Narrated Jabir bin Samura: I heard the Prophet saying, "There will be twelve Muslim rulers (who will rule all the Islamic world)." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, "All of them (those rulers) will be from Quraish."
Sahih Bukhari 9:89:329
li Ibn Abi Talib, said: Verily the Prophet said: God divided the earth in two halves and placed (me) in the better of the two, then He divided the half in three parts, and I was in the best of them, then He chose the Arabs from among the people, then He chose the Quraysh from among the Arabs, then He chose the children of ‘Abd al-Muttalib from among the Banu Hashim, then he chose me from among the children of ‘Abd al-Muttalib, and from them he chose me.[1]
Ibn Sa'd, Vol. 1, p. 12
The Hadith vol 1, no. 367 Anas, one of Muhammad's trusted companions "saw the WHITENESS of the penis of Allah's prophet"
when A'isha (Muhammad's wife) had a maid-slave who was an Arab, Muhammad said to A'isha,
`Set this maid free because she is from the children of ISHMAEL (ARABS).'"
Ibn Timiyya, Vol. 31, pp. 376-377
_____________________________________-
written by SAFFRONblood , March 14, 2012
SO arab allah is NOT UNIVERSAL THEN is he? my POINT BEING NO MUSLIM can say ARABS ALLAH IS A UNIVERSAL GOD because part of that IS HAVING TO ABIDE BY ARAB SHARIA LAW, ARAB EATING METHODS, ARAB IDEOLOGY, ARAB WEDDING RULES, ARAB IDEOLOGY AND YOU HAVE TO BOW DOWN AND FACE ARABS! and THE KORAN STATES 100%....that ONLY ALLAH IS CORRECT..
..so STUPID MUSLIM..when you said ''OF COURSE'' hes universal....you didnt know what you where talking about!... :):) lol
ARABS CREATED ISLAM TO control its SLAVE MAWALI POPULATIONS..(a mawali is an Arabic term that classes NON ARAB CONVERTS, as slave client workers, 5% ARABS CONTROL 95% SLAVE POPULATION....who have to FOLLOW ARABS, not allah, ARABS WHO CONTROL ALLAH...and through that they ARE MADE TO BOW DOWN AND FACE ARABIA...
ARABS control god and through that control the followers actions.A person who is an athiest who has hurt no one, is HE acceptable to the TERM within ARABS ISLAM?
OR DOES IT MEAN......the QUESTION IS VERY SIMPLE.....that EVERYONE has to sumbit down to ARABS ALLAH, and their ARABIC TRADITIONS AND SHARIA LAW??
Arab allah does not ACCEPT ANYONE APART FROM AN ARAB MUSLIM? correct
BECAUSE arabs deem that ONLY THEIR WAY IS FIT AND CORRECT, AND THEIR no ROOM for ANY tolerance!....
THAT IS WHAT YOU HAVENT GOT THE GUTS TO SAY.....that arab islam IS NOT UNIVERSAL TRUTH.MEANING THAT EVERYONE ELSE HAS TO SUMBIT DOWN TO ARAB WAY OF LIFE, ARABIC LANG, ARABIC CULTURE, ARAB SHARIA LAW, ARAB FOOD CUSTOM, ARAB WEDDING RULE, AND MUST BOW DOWN AND FACE ARABIA!
so as you can tell ARABS ISLAM is NOT UNIVERSAL....
BTW YOU DIDNT SAY ANYTHING about the INVITATION!!
if in an invite their is decleration of the threat for not accepting the invite...CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE CHOICE OF THE INVITE WAS!!... :):)
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Qur'an 9:5
----and you dismiss above quotes in the koran as being nothing... :):)
written by duh_swami , March 14, 2012
Mr Pasta loves Muslims...
Thank you for confirming it dear boy...You see, it is possible to hate Islam and love Muslims at the same time...
Your real problem sweets is that you know what you are, but you do not know who you are...It is the same problem with Allah...Allah is not a who, Allah is a what...People often speak this error...As an example dear boy, You may hear a gay person say, 'That's who I am'...But he is in error because gayness is not a who, it is a what...Who he is, is entirely different...Similarly dear one, when you say, 'I am a Muslim'...You have fallen into the same trap...'I' is a who, Muslim is a what...I realize dear boy that this requires thinking a little deeper than you are used to, but let me assure you, as long as you believe you are a what, you will never find out who you are...
And as long as you believe God is a who, you will never know what God really is...Meditation will help lift you from your confusion...Good luck dear boy...
Thank you for confirming it dear boy...You see, it is possible to hate Islam and love Muslims at the same time...
Your real problem sweets is that you know what you are, but you do not know who you are...It is the same problem with Allah...Allah is not a who, Allah is a what...People often speak this error...As an example dear boy, You may hear a gay person say, 'That's who I am'...But he is in error because gayness is not a who, it is a what...Who he is, is entirely different...Similarly dear one, when you say, 'I am a Muslim'...You have fallen into the same trap...'I' is a who, Muslim is a what...I realize dear boy that this requires thinking a little deeper than you are used to, but let me assure you, as long as you believe you are a what, you will never find out who you are...
And as long as you believe God is a who, you will never know what God really is...Meditation will help lift you from your confusion...Good luck dear boy...
written by SAFFRONblood , March 14, 2012
PLEASE show quotes when you said ''OF COURSE'' hes universal.
or openly DECLARE THAT ARABS ISLAH IS NOT UNIVERSAL ideology but one centered around ARABS.
and please dont deny that either, because islam protects the arab islamic way of life. Otherwise their would be no need for an arab sharia law, that protects in law the arab god called allah, and their would be no need to face arabia, and bow down, because god is universal, their would be no need, to have arabic names, arab wedding, arab food rules, beacuse its not universal.
ISLAM is an arabic attempt to control followers and their actions, to carry out acts of violence, fear, conversion, female circumcision, stoning, as an ACT OF FAITH. So people in africa, are fighting for an arab cause, because ARABS CREATED ALLAH TO PROTECT ....AN ARAB WAY OF LIFE....and nothing else
MAWALI is an arabic term, that was created to sepereate NON ARAB MUSLIMS, AS being slave client workers of arabs....part of that, the slave cleints or muslims...HAVE TO FACE ARABIA, bow down to arabs, have to adopt arabic way of life, eating, wedding, sharia law, and ideology.....in other words
ARABS are creating duplicate arab societies around the world that TAKE orders FROM ARABS!!!
as you said ISLAM CANNOT BE UNIVERSAL! BECAUSE IT DOES NOT PREACH SUCH THINGS!
or openly DECLARE THAT ARABS ISLAH IS NOT UNIVERSAL ideology but one centered around ARABS.
and please dont deny that either, because islam protects the arab islamic way of life. Otherwise their would be no need for an arab sharia law, that protects in law the arab god called allah, and their would be no need to face arabia, and bow down, because god is universal, their would be no need, to have arabic names, arab wedding, arab food rules, beacuse its not universal.
ISLAM is an arabic attempt to control followers and their actions, to carry out acts of violence, fear, conversion, female circumcision, stoning, as an ACT OF FAITH. So people in africa, are fighting for an arab cause, because ARABS CREATED ALLAH TO PROTECT ....AN ARAB WAY OF LIFE....and nothing else
MAWALI is an arabic term, that was created to sepereate NON ARAB MUSLIMS, AS being slave client workers of arabs....part of that, the slave cleints or muslims...HAVE TO FACE ARABIA, bow down to arabs, have to adopt arabic way of life, eating, wedding, sharia law, and ideology.....in other words
ARABS are creating duplicate arab societies around the world that TAKE orders FROM ARABS!!!
as you said ISLAM CANNOT BE UNIVERSAL! BECAUSE IT DOES NOT PREACH SUCH THINGS!
written by duh_swami , March 14, 2012
You made perfectly good sense...You are going to further confuse these confused Muslims...Perfectly good sense always confounds them...
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 14, 2012
I agree that Muslims are not able to make their position clear because of dishonesty.
But can one really blame them? as they are only following the foot step of the Master Mohammed.
To them black is white, evil is good as long as Mohammed said is good no matter how bad it is. These poetic art work of Mohammed which becomes the standard of what is good or bad.
The Muslims find it difficult to fit into the civilized world.
They cannot develop beyond 7th century hallucination of an illiterate desert Arab who was consumed by the quest for wealth, women, and power to create a personal god in order to bring his Arab folks under his control.
When he needs money, robbery, thievery become good, when he needs women, polygamy, rape become good. When he needs power, piracy, terrorism and war become good.
To them persecution is worse than bloodshed, death is better than life. To them retaliation is good virtue and eye for eye is their golden rule. The message of love and forgiveness is strange for them; neither do they really understand what the real golden rule stands for.
It will take the grace of God almighty to be able to transform these people who are under such a great spell to become normal again
But can one really blame them? as they are only following the foot step of the Master Mohammed.
To them black is white, evil is good as long as Mohammed said is good no matter how bad it is. These poetic art work of Mohammed which becomes the standard of what is good or bad.
The Muslims find it difficult to fit into the civilized world.
They cannot develop beyond 7th century hallucination of an illiterate desert Arab who was consumed by the quest for wealth, women, and power to create a personal god in order to bring his Arab folks under his control.
When he needs money, robbery, thievery become good, when he needs women, polygamy, rape become good. When he needs power, piracy, terrorism and war become good.
To them persecution is worse than bloodshed, death is better than life. To them retaliation is good virtue and eye for eye is their golden rule. The message of love and forgiveness is strange for them; neither do they really understand what the real golden rule stands for.
It will take the grace of God almighty to be able to transform these people who are under such a great spell to become normal again
written by Muslim and proud , March 14, 2012
"It will take the grace of God almighty to be able to transform these people who are under such a great spell to become normal again"
Mr Pasta,
Which God (out of the 3) are you referring to?
Mr Pasta,
Which God (out of the 3) are you referring to?
written by rzq , March 14, 2012
this is the third time you phobes try to use the muddy pool argument! Twice u have given references and refutations.
Let me give you the condensed version.
The scene is what dhul qurnain was looking at and secondly it was his geographical location! Yibel is incorrect!!!!
Let me give you the condensed version.
The scene is what dhul qurnain was looking at and secondly it was his geographical location! Yibel is incorrect!!!!
written by SAFFRONblood , March 14, 2012
RZQ
Do you finally agree, that arab allah is not universal AT ALL, because before you said ''OF COURSE'' then you didnt know what universal meant.....Does universal in your MIND mean that EVERYONE universally has to adopt an ARABIC CENTRED RELIGON?.....
and btw WHY do you overlook quotes from the koran that MAKES IT VERY CLEAR.....
THAT NO ONE APART FROM ARABS ALLAH IS ALLOWED.....So tell me once again HOW is that universal?..and do you see the ARAB ATTEMPT TO CREATE DUPLICATE SOCEITES THAT TAKE ORDERS FROM ARABS!!..
your a FOKING JOKE!, you dont have the GUTS to prove you own stance, without undermining arabs ISLAM.
YOU AINT MUSLIMS, YOU ARE MAWALI.....an arab slave client who works for ARABS in the name of ALLAH.
LOL...
AINT NO UNIVERSAL TRUTH IN ISLAM...AT ALL..
MAWALI is an arabic term, that was created to sepereate NON ARAB MUSLIMS, AS being slave client workers of arabs....part of that, the slave cleints or muslims...HAVE TO FACE ARABIA, bow down to arabs, have to adopt arabic way of life, eating, wedding, sharia law, and ideology.....in other words
ARABS are creating duplicate arab societies around the world that TAKE orders FROM ARABS!!!
ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS!.....
________________________________________
Just to make sure, that everyone knows, RZA, ARABS ALLAH is not a universal god or truth, but an arab centric god and their sharia law which protects that god...Correct?
Do you finally agree, that arab allah is not universal AT ALL, because before you said ''OF COURSE'' then you didnt know what universal meant.....Does universal in your MIND mean that EVERYONE universally has to adopt an ARABIC CENTRED RELIGON?.....
and btw WHY do you overlook quotes from the koran that MAKES IT VERY CLEAR.....
THAT NO ONE APART FROM ARABS ALLAH IS ALLOWED.....So tell me once again HOW is that universal?..and do you see the ARAB ATTEMPT TO CREATE DUPLICATE SOCEITES THAT TAKE ORDERS FROM ARABS!!..
your a FOKING JOKE!, you dont have the GUTS to prove you own stance, without undermining arabs ISLAM.
YOU AINT MUSLIMS, YOU ARE MAWALI.....an arab slave client who works for ARABS in the name of ALLAH.
LOL...
AINT NO UNIVERSAL TRUTH IN ISLAM...AT ALL..
MAWALI is an arabic term, that was created to sepereate NON ARAB MUSLIMS, AS being slave client workers of arabs....part of that, the slave cleints or muslims...HAVE TO FACE ARABIA, bow down to arabs, have to adopt arabic way of life, eating, wedding, sharia law, and ideology.....in other words
ARABS are creating duplicate arab societies around the world that TAKE orders FROM ARABS!!!
ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS!.....
________________________________________
Just to make sure, that everyone knows, RZA, ARABS ALLAH is not a universal god or truth, but an arab centric god and their sharia law which protects that god...Correct?
written by SAFFRONblood , March 14, 2012
if the PENTALY TO LEAVE..ARABS ISLAM..is ..........DEATH!!
RZA, can you tell me of the CHOICE and the FAITH you speak of?...IF to leave ARABS system of control, is DEATH.....then what is value of FAITH?
...as you can see, it becomes VERY VERY CLEAR....that ISLAM is an ARABIC SYSTEM OF CONTROL.
and JUST like modern THUG gangs, the penalty to leave is usually also DEATH.
Can you tell me what GOD, FAITH AND UNIVERSAL MEANS in arabs islam!
(i know you wont be able to , because LIKE I SAID, ARABS CREATED ISLAM TO CONTROL OTHERS, to carry out plunder, conversion, undermining other faiths, pushing arab ideology,violence, as AN act of FAITH.)
RZA, can you tell me of the CHOICE and the FAITH you speak of?...IF to leave ARABS system of control, is DEATH.....then what is value of FAITH?
...as you can see, it becomes VERY VERY CLEAR....that ISLAM is an ARABIC SYSTEM OF CONTROL.
and JUST like modern THUG gangs, the penalty to leave is usually also DEATH.
Can you tell me what GOD, FAITH AND UNIVERSAL MEANS in arabs islam!
(i know you wont be able to , because LIKE I SAID, ARABS CREATED ISLAM TO CONTROL OTHERS, to carry out plunder, conversion, undermining other faiths, pushing arab ideology,violence, as AN act of FAITH.)
written by SAFFRONblood , March 14, 2012
RZA im also inviting you along the lines of your own arab prophet
ACCEPT MY INVITE and come into the fold of my faith, and if you do, i will offer you protection and you can keep what you owe, but you now follow ME, however IF YOU DONT accept my invite, then safety, security and the lives of your people rests on your shoulders, their blood will be on YOUR HANDS. MY Prophethood will assume preponderance OVER YOUR kingship.
FOR my god IS most MERCIFUL.
DO you accept my INVITE?, do you accept my GOD, MY TERMS do you BOW DOWN to US?.........if not get ready!
(RZA lets hope your own invites to friends and family dont follow the lines of the INVITE from mohammed.)
:)
ACCEPT MY INVITE and come into the fold of my faith, and if you do, i will offer you protection and you can keep what you owe, but you now follow ME, however IF YOU DONT accept my invite, then safety, security and the lives of your people rests on your shoulders, their blood will be on YOUR HANDS. MY Prophethood will assume preponderance OVER YOUR kingship.
FOR my god IS most MERCIFUL.
DO you accept my INVITE?, do you accept my GOD, MY TERMS do you BOW DOWN to US?.........if not get ready!
(RZA lets hope your own invites to friends and family dont follow the lines of the INVITE from mohammed.)
:)
written by Muslim & Proud , March 14, 2012
"ACCEPT MY INVITE and come into the fold of my faith, and if you do, i will offer you protection and you can keep what you owe, but you now follow ME, however IF YOU DONT accept my invite, then safety, security and the lives of your people rests on your shoulders, their blood will be on YOUR HANDS. MY Prophethood will assume preponderance OVER YOUR kingship."
This kind of approach was only suitable c1400 years ago (crusades and conquests) - the world has moved on my friend. Out of all the crusades and conquests that took place over a thousand of years ago, please provide evidence of 'any' that took the same approach as Islam - i.e. an INVITE?
Good luck.
This kind of approach was only suitable c1400 years ago (crusades and conquests) - the world has moved on my friend. Out of all the crusades and conquests that took place over a thousand of years ago, please provide evidence of 'any' that took the same approach as Islam - i.e. an INVITE?
Good luck.
written by Muslim & Proud , March 14, 2012
Even in the modern age, Islam continues to thrive and non-muslims embrace Islam. This is where you need to pay attention Mr Moz:
Islam is flexible enough to accomodate any AGE. The modern age promotes freedom and even in this free world (West), non-muslims embrace Islam in the thousands upon thousands - every year. Over 1400 years ago, when the sword was regarded to be the way (amongst the non-muslims), even then, Islam was flexible enough to thrive and spread in a way which could not be classed as FORCE - hence the INVITE.........
Islam is pure genious..........and perfection...........and DIVINE.
Islam is flexible enough to accomodate any AGE. The modern age promotes freedom and even in this free world (West), non-muslims embrace Islam in the thousands upon thousands - every year. Over 1400 years ago, when the sword was regarded to be the way (amongst the non-muslims), even then, Islam was flexible enough to thrive and spread in a way which could not be classed as FORCE - hence the INVITE.........
Islam is pure genious..........and perfection...........and DIVINE.
written by duh_swami , March 14, 2012
Islam is pure genious, Quran 2:193 and 8:39..........and perfection Quran 5:33...........and DIVINE.
Quran 47:4, 8:12, 8:60, 9:5, 9:29...It takes too long to post all Allah's divinity, but the Quran is full of them...24:2, 3:1...4:34...
Quran 47:4, 8:12, 8:60, 9:5, 9:29...It takes too long to post all Allah's divinity, but the Quran is full of them...24:2, 3:1...4:34...
written by Muslim & Proud , March 14, 2012
Confirmation from the kuffar dog:
"It takes too long to post all Allah's divinity, but the Quran is full of them"
Thanks for the admission - its appreciated.
"It takes too long to post all Allah's divinity, but the Quran is full of them"
Thanks for the admission - its appreciated.
written by fineliving56 , March 14, 2012
The Non petrifaction of Islam and Quran ... shows ... in every part and every page
Like the one where Allah promises Muslim men in heaven al ganat al naeem ... girls virgins who did not have their monthly flux yet ... meaning they are under 12 ..
So if Muslim think Islam is genius,perfect and divine and Islam promises him little girls under 12 ... that means*** Muslim & proud wants the perfection of sleeping with little girls!! ***
or if he does not ... and if the thought of sleeping with little girls makes him sick like normal lumen man ... that means Islam is ***not perfect!!***
I repeat Islam IS NOT PERFECT ... IN FACT.... IT IS DISGUSTING ... THAT SURAH IS PROVE OF IT .
Like the one where Allah promises Muslim men in heaven al ganat al naeem ... girls virgins who did not have their monthly flux yet ... meaning they are under 12 ..
So if Muslim think Islam is genius,perfect and divine and Islam promises him little girls under 12 ... that means*** Muslim & proud wants the perfection of sleeping with little girls!! ***
or if he does not ... and if the thought of sleeping with little girls makes him sick like normal lumen man ... that means Islam is ***not perfect!!***
I repeat Islam IS NOT PERFECT ... IN FACT.... IT IS DISGUSTING ... THAT SURAH IS PROVE OF IT .
written by Muslim and proud , March 14, 2012
As always, you are talking absolute nonsense........well done.
written by duh_swami , March 14, 2012
Thanks for the admission - its appreciated.''
You continue to be retarded my boy, and seem to have a problem with reading comprehension...
By the way sweet, you never did answer my question about talking to dead people...Do you believe as Mohammad did that the dead can hear you when you talk to them?
written by rzq , March 14, 2012
Whats with your facination with arabs? caps lock does not make your points anymore valid than the rubbish they are.
You seem to have a problem between knowing what an arab is and a religion is. Arabs are people who liive in the arabian peninsula. Islam is a universal religion. Whats your confusion smart boy?
In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only!
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not nor is He begotten.
And there is none like unto Him.
That sounds pretty universal to me. Please point out the word arab in the above translation???????????
You seem to have a problem between knowing what an arab is and a religion is. Arabs are people who liive in the arabian peninsula. Islam is a universal religion. Whats your confusion smart boy?
In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only!
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not nor is He begotten.
And there is none like unto Him.
That sounds pretty universal to me. Please point out the word arab in the above translation???????????
written by Muslim and proud , March 14, 2012
"It takes too long to post all Allah's divinity, but the Quran is full of them"
Very true indeed.
Very true indeed.
written by bundypig , March 14, 2012
Qur'an 52:21"Those who believe and whose families follow them in Faith, to them shall We join their offspring: Nor shall We deprive them of their works: (Yet) each individual is in pledge for his deeds. [Imagine that. Wives and children will be joined with husbands and fathers who are cavorting with virgins. That ought to be entertaining.] And We shall provide fruit and meat, anything they desire. There they shall pass from hand to hand a (wine) cup free of frivolity, free of all taint of vanity or cause of sin. Round about them will serve, (devoted) to them, young boy servants of their own (handsome) as well-guarded pearls. They will advance to each other, drawing near, engaging in mutual enquiry. They will say: 'We used to be afraid (of the punishment) in the midst of our families, but Allah has been good to us, and has delivered us from the torment of the Scorching Wind and Breath of Fire."
Young, handsome boys for m$perverted and rzqueen, like pearls they are, dig in boys ;)
Young, handsome boys for m$perverted and rzqueen, like pearls they are, dig in boys ;)
written by rzq , March 14, 2012
Where you at? I have just proved from the quran that Allah(swt) is universal.
the parameters of the invite are this:
"Allah (S.W.T) said in surat Al-Imran, (Verse 110), what can be translated as, "You are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind, you enjoin Al-Ma'ruf and forbid Al-Munkar"
If the leaders were doing the above then there would have been no reason for the Islamic state to do anything! Unfortunately for them they were transgressing and opressing. Look it's quite simple, nobody likes a foreign force on their soil! The natural instinct is to fight back! Ask yourself why it was so easy for Islam to expand???
The populations if these kingdoms wanted rid of opression and hence rebelled against their rulers and demanded that Islam be applied!
the parameters of the invite are this:
"Allah (S.W.T) said in surat Al-Imran, (Verse 110), what can be translated as, "You are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind, you enjoin Al-Ma'ruf and forbid Al-Munkar"
If the leaders were doing the above then there would have been no reason for the Islamic state to do anything! Unfortunately for them they were transgressing and opressing. Look it's quite simple, nobody likes a foreign force on their soil! The natural instinct is to fight back! Ask yourself why it was so easy for Islam to expand???
The populations if these kingdoms wanted rid of opression and hence rebelled against their rulers and demanded that Islam be applied!
written by Jibreel , March 15, 2012
Asalaam u alaikum... La ilaha il al bundy... Allahu SUX-$hit akbar! U friggin' loons are truly pieces of work! You are remarkably ostentatious with your pretentious bullshi'ite that's couched in asinine questions and "facts", all of it mixed in with a peevish rhetoric and covered in a gratingly ridiculous patina of pseudo-logic... U'd make ur pedo-pofiteer of an imbecile prophet proud... It'd be waste of time to really engage you charlatans of debate in an open discussion consisting of honest & truthful inquiry. Alas, the brainwashing you've suffered from, since u were weaned off the simple truth & started taking in the "nourishment" of the eternal lie that is islam, is still present & strong in its influence (& you're proud, no doubt)... I'll state this for you: just because a piece of dog$hit contains water doesn't make it nutritious or healthy for a human, the same applies to the dog$hit that is venerated as the word of allah (just another demon) or that which is ensconced in the hadith or sira or any other account of the life of that desert jack_$$ mo or that of his moronic companions, no matter how much fact it contains... In fact watery stool just makes for $hit that's even more messy than the dry & constipating kind. SO, yes... there are facts stuck in ur islamic piles-of-$hit, but they don't detract from the piles-of-$hit being just that - especially from a logical, ethical, moral, literary, scientific, or humanitarian vantage... Oh, look at that... it's time for me to go. Sorry to run off on u $hit-for-brain jack_$$es, but I've about had it reading all your bull$hit on here...
written by rzq , March 15, 2012
Just like all the other piss-ant apostates around here!
Talking loud but saying nothing!
Talking loud but saying nothing!
written by Malem , March 15, 2012
If you are tired of reading then dont, no one is forcing you to read or comment and surely there is no one forcing your hand to type the rant of vulgarities you have put forth.
written by duh_swami , March 15, 2012
written by rzq, March 15, 2012
U have a point mofo? Na?
Then blow me!!!!
Your low grade character exposes itself again, proving the poster above is right...
U have a point mofo? Na?
Then blow me!!!!
Your low grade character exposes itself again, proving the poster above is right...
written by duh_swami , March 15, 2012
If you are tired of reading then dont, no one is forcing you to read or comment and surely there is no one forcing your hand to type the rant of vulgarities you have put forth.
A common brush off with no substance...A Sweet Doctor Malman trademark...Also proving the poster Jibreel right...
A common brush off with no substance...A Sweet Doctor Malman trademark...Also proving the poster Jibreel right...
written by Yibel , March 15, 2012
In the Qur'an surah 3 Al-'Imran, aya 110, Muhammad is addressing his group of Muslim followers, all of whom are ARABS:
"Allah said in surrah Al-Imran, (Verse 110) "You are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind, you enjoin Al-Ma'ruf and forbid Al-Munkar"
In the following verse, 111, Muhammad goes on to state:
"Had the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) accepted this true Faith, it surely would have been better for them." That is, he would not have killed the men (by chopping off their heads and burning them alive) and stole their stuff (booty, of which he got 20 percent), and raped and enslaved the women and children!
In surrah 3:112 Muhammad tries to justify his awful behavior by saying it was all their fault, and the devil made him to it!
Muhammad delivered surrah 3 in Madinah after he drove out the Jews who had lived in that city for over a thousand years and defeated neighboring Jewish tribes. In surrah 3, Muhammad covered all his bases by referring to the tribal gods of his followers:
As-Sabur The Timeless, The Patient 3:200
Al-Mu'izz The Giver of Honour 3:26
Al-Mudhill The Giver of Dishonour 3:26
Al-Hayy The Living 3:2
Al-Wasi' The Vast, The All-Embracing, The Omnipresent, The Boundless 3:73
Al-Muqsit The Equitable, The Requiter 3:18
Al-Jami' The Gatherer, The Unifier 3:9
Al-Ghaniy The Rich, The Independent 3:97
Al-Wakil The Trustee, The Dependable, The Advocate 3:173
Al-Qayyum The Subsisting, The Guardian 3:2
Al-'Aleem The All Knowing, The Omniscient 3:92
Al-Mumit The Destroyer, The Bringer of Death 3:156
Ar-Ra'uf The Kind, The Pitying 3:30
Malik-ul-Mulk Owner of all Sovereignty (known to Bible readers as Molech) 3:26
Al-‘Aziz The Almighty, The Invulnerable, The Honorable 3:6
3:151-”We will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve.”
"Allah said in surrah Al-Imran, (Verse 110) "You are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind, you enjoin Al-Ma'ruf and forbid Al-Munkar"
In the following verse, 111, Muhammad goes on to state:
"Had the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) accepted this true Faith, it surely would have been better for them." That is, he would not have killed the men (by chopping off their heads and burning them alive) and stole their stuff (booty, of which he got 20 percent), and raped and enslaved the women and children!
In surrah 3:112 Muhammad tries to justify his awful behavior by saying it was all their fault, and the devil made him to it!
Muhammad delivered surrah 3 in Madinah after he drove out the Jews who had lived in that city for over a thousand years and defeated neighboring Jewish tribes. In surrah 3, Muhammad covered all his bases by referring to the tribal gods of his followers:
As-Sabur The Timeless, The Patient 3:200
Al-Mu'izz The Giver of Honour 3:26
Al-Mudhill The Giver of Dishonour 3:26
Al-Hayy The Living 3:2
Al-Wasi' The Vast, The All-Embracing, The Omnipresent, The Boundless 3:73
Al-Muqsit The Equitable, The Requiter 3:18
Al-Jami' The Gatherer, The Unifier 3:9
Al-Ghaniy The Rich, The Independent 3:97
Al-Wakil The Trustee, The Dependable, The Advocate 3:173
Al-Qayyum The Subsisting, The Guardian 3:2
Al-'Aleem The All Knowing, The Omniscient 3:92
Al-Mumit The Destroyer, The Bringer of Death 3:156
Ar-Ra'uf The Kind, The Pitying 3:30
Malik-ul-Mulk Owner of all Sovereignty (known to Bible readers as Molech) 3:26
Al-‘Aziz The Almighty, The Invulnerable, The Honorable 3:6
3:151-”We will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve.”
written by Muslim and proud , March 15, 2012
Would you like to share with us what the Talmud says about Jesus?
Please 'enlighten us'.....
Please 'enlighten us'.....
written by duh_swami , March 15, 2012
Would you like to share with us what the Talmud says about Jesus?
Please 'enlighten us'.....
Yes, quickly switch the subject to Jesus before someone asks M&Pious an embarrassing question about Islam...
Nice try of obfuscation M&pious, but it didn't work...
Please 'enlighten us'.....
Yes, quickly switch the subject to Jesus before someone asks M&Pious an embarrassing question about Islam...
Nice try of obfuscation M&pious, but it didn't work...
written by Muslim & Proud , March 15, 2012
I asked Yibel this question days ago.
He seems to focus on Islam as opposed to sharing his own scriptures with us.
Keep up.
He seems to focus on Islam as opposed to sharing his own scriptures with us.
Keep up.
written by duh_swami , March 15, 2012
He seems to focus on Islam as opposed to sharing his own scriptures with us.
Maybe that's because this is Islam-Watch and not Bible or Christian watch...If you think anyone believes that you are interested in Bible scripture for any reason other than to refute them, you are dead wrong...Haha, sorry sweet boy you are not clever enough to get away with that obfuscation...The only reason to compare bible scripture to Islamic scripture is to illustrate how screwed up Islamic scripture is...
Maybe that's because this is Islam-Watch and not Bible or Christian watch...If you think anyone believes that you are interested in Bible scripture for any reason other than to refute them, you are dead wrong...Haha, sorry sweet boy you are not clever enough to get away with that obfuscation...The only reason to compare bible scripture to Islamic scripture is to illustrate how screwed up Islamic scripture is...
written by Muslim & Proud , March 15, 2012
Maybe that's because this is Islam-Watch and not Bible or Christian watch...
Hopefully your boyfriend Mr Pasta will take note for future reference ;-)
written by duh_swami , March 15, 2012
The only reason to compare bible scripture to Islamic scripture is to illustrate how screwed up Islamic scripture is...
I guess you missed that part, dear boy, you are missing a lot of parts...
I guess you missed that part, dear boy, you are missing a lot of parts...
written by Muslim & Proud , March 15, 2012
The only reason to compare bible scripture to Islamic scripture is to illustrate how screwed up Islamic scripture is...
I guess you missed that part, dear boy, you are missing a lot of parts...
Do you mean like the christian scriptures of three Gods? Ok - I know what you mean.....thanks for the clarity.
written by Jibreel , March 15, 2012
[Editor: Please be more civil in your use of language. Swearing, name-calling, vulgarities are now allowed.
1) I'm not an apostate since I was never in submission to that demented demon named "allah" & his deluded bi'atch "mo" like u & the rest of ur global-cali'phag'ate of $hit-brained imbeciles are - which goes to show that u know $hit about me u fagtastic cockgobbler... Didn't I state that u & ur boner-buddy M&Piss were full of $hit...? Yep, I did.
Ok, take a deep breath and keep reading, if u can handle it, $hit-for-brains
2) On a different topic, answer me this, u selfabsorbed pile of ambulatory $hit: Does "allah" exist & if so how can a pile of steaming $hit like you tell that such a demon exists? (Yes, I'm calling out ur "god" to be nothing but the slave & spawn of Shaitaan.)
Get a hold of ur $hitty self, relax a bit from the apoplexy u just experienced, & respond if u can in a coherant and intellible manner - I'm not requiring that u be intelligent, just intelligible... Intelligence would be a Herculean ordeal for u $hit-for-brain imbeciles.
p.s. mocking my handle "Jibreel" as "fagreel" only furthers my position that u & M&Piss have $hit 4 brains since ur essentially mocking the name of ur political-ideologie's veneer of divine revelation from a supposed angel named... guess what it was $hit-4-brains? Oh wait for it... here u go: Jibreel... Tada! So that show's how little respect u have 4 this divine messenger & how much $hit u do have - veritably & demonstrably - for ur brain...
1) I'm not an apostate since I was never in submission to that demented demon named "allah" & his deluded bi'atch "mo" like u & the rest of ur global-cali'phag'ate of $hit-brained imbeciles are - which goes to show that u know $hit about me u fagtastic cockgobbler... Didn't I state that u & ur boner-buddy M&Piss were full of $hit...? Yep, I did.
Ok, take a deep breath and keep reading, if u can handle it, $hit-for-brains
2) On a different topic, answer me this, u selfabsorbed pile of ambulatory $hit: Does "allah" exist & if so how can a pile of steaming $hit like you tell that such a demon exists? (Yes, I'm calling out ur "god" to be nothing but the slave & spawn of Shaitaan.)
Get a hold of ur $hitty self, relax a bit from the apoplexy u just experienced, & respond if u can in a coherant and intellible manner - I'm not requiring that u be intelligent, just intelligible... Intelligence would be a Herculean ordeal for u $hit-for-brain imbeciles.
p.s. mocking my handle "Jibreel" as "fagreel" only furthers my position that u & M&Piss have $hit 4 brains since ur essentially mocking the name of ur political-ideologie's veneer of divine revelation from a supposed angel named... guess what it was $hit-4-brains? Oh wait for it... here u go: Jibreel... Tada! So that show's how little respect u have 4 this divine messenger & how much $hit u do have - veritably & demonstrably - for ur brain...
written by Yibel , March 16, 2012
Concerning Talmud. First of all, the Talmud is literature, not scripture. It is a collection of stories, legal discussions, commentary on scripture, etc. Muhammad used several of the stories from the Talmud when he composed his Qur'an thinking that he was copying real Jewish scriptures. One of his companions, a Persian named Salman the Farsi, translated it for him.
Now, a question for you. What makes you think that the Talmud is my "scriptures"?I am a Christian. Yah'shua/Jesus is my savior. YHVH is my God.
I do know what the Talmud says about Yah'shua and I have read the transcript of his trial and subsequent execution. No, I do not care to share this information with you on this site as it really has no bearing, that I can see, on the subject which is Islam. Muhammad's dumb story about a person he called Isa and someone else (unnamed) who gets crucified instead of Isa was based on a heretic's rantings and is totally unrelated to the Bible. Q. 4:157-158
Muhammad's gods in surrah 4 (a Makkan surat) are the following:
Ar-Rahman and Ar-Raheem and
Al-Muqeet The Nourisher 4:85
Al-Waliy The Friend, Patron and Helper 4:45
Al-Haseeb The Bringer of Judgment 4:6, 4:86
Al-'Aliy The Sublime 4:34
Al-Basir The All Seeing 4:58
Al-'Aleem The All Knowing, The Omniscient 4:35
Al-‘Aziz The Almighty, The Invulnerable, The Honorable 4:158
BTW: It is Al-'Aziz who lifts up Isa to himself. Aziz, originally a Syriac word, is derived from the root A-z-z and it means one that is powerful, strong, or respected. The word is also used in the Quran as meaning King of Egypt.
Aziz is a cognate of the Hebrew word Oz meaning might, strength, and power.
Think, Wizard of Oz! The humbug who hides behind the screen pretending to be all powerful. Fits Muhammad/Allah to a TEE!
Now, a question for you. What makes you think that the Talmud is my "scriptures"?I am a Christian. Yah'shua/Jesus is my savior. YHVH is my God.
I do know what the Talmud says about Yah'shua and I have read the transcript of his trial and subsequent execution. No, I do not care to share this information with you on this site as it really has no bearing, that I can see, on the subject which is Islam. Muhammad's dumb story about a person he called Isa and someone else (unnamed) who gets crucified instead of Isa was based on a heretic's rantings and is totally unrelated to the Bible. Q. 4:157-158
Muhammad's gods in surrah 4 (a Makkan surat) are the following:
Ar-Rahman and Ar-Raheem and
Al-Muqeet The Nourisher 4:85
Al-Waliy The Friend, Patron and Helper 4:45
Al-Haseeb The Bringer of Judgment 4:6, 4:86
Al-'Aliy The Sublime 4:34
Al-Basir The All Seeing 4:58
Al-'Aleem The All Knowing, The Omniscient 4:35
Al-‘Aziz The Almighty, The Invulnerable, The Honorable 4:158
BTW: It is Al-'Aziz who lifts up Isa to himself. Aziz, originally a Syriac word, is derived from the root A-z-z and it means one that is powerful, strong, or respected. The word is also used in the Quran as meaning King of Egypt.
Aziz is a cognate of the Hebrew word Oz meaning might, strength, and power.
Think, Wizard of Oz! The humbug who hides behind the screen pretending to be all powerful. Fits Muhammad/Allah to a TEE!
written by Muslim and proud , March 16, 2012
"Ar-Rahman and Ar-Raheem and
Al-Muqeet The Nourisher 4:85
Al-Waliy The Friend, Patron and Helper 4:45
Al-Haseeb The Bringer of Judgment 4:6, 4:86
Al-'Aliy The Sublime 4:34
Al-Basir The All Seeing 4:58
Al-'Aleem The All Knowing, The Omniscient 4:35
Al-‘Aziz The Almighty, The Invulnerable, The Honorable 4:158"
I see you are still obsessed with the Asma-ul-husna
Www.asmaulhusna.com
7:180 Allah (the exalted) has the most excellent names. So call on him by his names and shun those who distort them. They shall soon be required for their deeds.
Al-Muqeet The Nourisher 4:85
Al-Waliy The Friend, Patron and Helper 4:45
Al-Haseeb The Bringer of Judgment 4:6, 4:86
Al-'Aliy The Sublime 4:34
Al-Basir The All Seeing 4:58
Al-'Aleem The All Knowing, The Omniscient 4:35
Al-‘Aziz The Almighty, The Invulnerable, The Honorable 4:158"
I see you are still obsessed with the Asma-ul-husna
Www.asmaulhusna.com
7:180 Allah (the exalted) has the most excellent names. So call on him by his names and shun those who distort them. They shall soon be required for their deeds.
written by Seam_On_Us , March 16, 2012
I have read far and wide and I have had it with you Muslims. You are like children who cover up your eyes and ears and scream out loud just so you will not hear reason.
I wonder if Malem is still on here but I would like to reply to his/her post concerning the 'context' of Sura 9:30.
First and most importantly, answer me this: is the Quran meant for some men and for some ages or for all men and for all ages? Is the Quran truly eternal as it claims to be or do you profess otherwise? Careful as you answer though; for if you answer wrongly around a group of your Muslim friends be sure that you won't be long for this world.
I do not have the verse on me now but I am certain that the Quran was revealed for all men and for all ages; that it is eternal and universal. So how then can you argue about 'context'? Context implies that that part of the Quran applies only to certain people and was in effect for a specific time in history. This, my friend, conflicts with any claim of 'eternal and universal revelation'. As long as that verse is a part of the Quran it is still in operation today.
Now, you gave a number of conditions that permitted 'defensive' jihad, one of which was if the infidels were preparing or were already attacking Muslims. Thus, judging from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, according to you, your suicide compadres are doing the right thing by 'defensively' responding to the infidel threat. Guess that's why you probably don't speak out against the attrocities being perpetrated against minorities in the Middle East; they too are infidel and are therefore fair game.
I would also like to address the posts concerning whether or not God is an egotistical praise-monger. Consider this scenario:
A father knows his son loves to perform high speed stunts on his motorcycle. The father repeatedly warns his son to desist from such dangerous stunts but the son refuses to listen, declaring that he has done so many stunts so far and no evil has yet befallen him. Now, the son has no health insurance and the father quickly buys one for him. Suddenly, disaster strikes and the son is terribly injured. The father rushes him to a hospital and wants to access the insurance he has paid for his son. But the son refuses help of any sort from his father. The father begs his son to stop being stubborn and to accept the help he has provided. The son is adamant about not wanting any help. The boy dies.
To be continued...
I wonder if Malem is still on here but I would like to reply to his/her post concerning the 'context' of Sura 9:30.
First and most importantly, answer me this: is the Quran meant for some men and for some ages or for all men and for all ages? Is the Quran truly eternal as it claims to be or do you profess otherwise? Careful as you answer though; for if you answer wrongly around a group of your Muslim friends be sure that you won't be long for this world.
I do not have the verse on me now but I am certain that the Quran was revealed for all men and for all ages; that it is eternal and universal. So how then can you argue about 'context'? Context implies that that part of the Quran applies only to certain people and was in effect for a specific time in history. This, my friend, conflicts with any claim of 'eternal and universal revelation'. As long as that verse is a part of the Quran it is still in operation today.
Now, you gave a number of conditions that permitted 'defensive' jihad, one of which was if the infidels were preparing or were already attacking Muslims. Thus, judging from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, according to you, your suicide compadres are doing the right thing by 'defensively' responding to the infidel threat. Guess that's why you probably don't speak out against the attrocities being perpetrated against minorities in the Middle East; they too are infidel and are therefore fair game.
I would also like to address the posts concerning whether or not God is an egotistical praise-monger. Consider this scenario:
A father knows his son loves to perform high speed stunts on his motorcycle. The father repeatedly warns his son to desist from such dangerous stunts but the son refuses to listen, declaring that he has done so many stunts so far and no evil has yet befallen him. Now, the son has no health insurance and the father quickly buys one for him. Suddenly, disaster strikes and the son is terribly injured. The father rushes him to a hospital and wants to access the insurance he has paid for his son. But the son refuses help of any sort from his father. The father begs his son to stop being stubborn and to accept the help he has provided. The son is adamant about not wanting any help. The boy dies.
To be continued...
written by Seam_On_Us , March 16, 2012
Continuation...
Whose fault led to the boy's death, in your opinion? This story does not fully capture the intricate details of a relationship with the Father but it fits as a basic summary. The world has been on a death-course for many millenia now and the Father has been calling out to us to change from our evil. He sent His Son Jesus to pay for our sins and to buy us mercy so that we would not perish. Jesus is our insurance that if we recourse to Him and obey Him we will have eternal life and never truly die. But people have ignored or willfuly refused this saving grace and have turned even more against God.
Do not be decieved that you are master and king of your life! This is one of the devil's lies to keep people from truning to God through Jesus. You did not give yourself life and neither did any of your ancestors. All life comes from the Father and, through Jesus Christ, all creation has been reconciled unto God. But you MUST accept it. A gift is not a gift if it is rejected.
Back to the Muslims. I find it truly repugnant that your scriptures claim that Allah is the same God as the God of the Christians and of the Jews. This is a torrid and terrible lie! For one thing Yahweh has never once in the entire history of His relationship with man changed His Name form Yahweh to anything else. So if you continue deluding yourselves that you worship the same God as we do then you are thoroughly deceived.
Whose fault led to the boy's death, in your opinion? This story does not fully capture the intricate details of a relationship with the Father but it fits as a basic summary. The world has been on a death-course for many millenia now and the Father has been calling out to us to change from our evil. He sent His Son Jesus to pay for our sins and to buy us mercy so that we would not perish. Jesus is our insurance that if we recourse to Him and obey Him we will have eternal life and never truly die. But people have ignored or willfuly refused this saving grace and have turned even more against God.
Do not be decieved that you are master and king of your life! This is one of the devil's lies to keep people from truning to God through Jesus. You did not give yourself life and neither did any of your ancestors. All life comes from the Father and, through Jesus Christ, all creation has been reconciled unto God. But you MUST accept it. A gift is not a gift if it is rejected.
Back to the Muslims. I find it truly repugnant that your scriptures claim that Allah is the same God as the God of the Christians and of the Jews. This is a torrid and terrible lie! For one thing Yahweh has never once in the entire history of His relationship with man changed His Name form Yahweh to anything else. So if you continue deluding yourselves that you worship the same God as we do then you are thoroughly deceived.
written by Muslim and proud , March 16, 2012
"I have read far and wide and I have had it with you Muslims. You are like children who cover up your eyes and ears and scream out loud just so you will not hear reason."
Why are you wasting your time then?
Why are you wasting your time then?
written by Seam_On_Us , March 16, 2012
"Why are you wasting your time then?"
Because unlike your Allah who has already predestined everyone to either Heaven or Hell, Yahweh still gives time and hopes that even you, Muslim and Proud, will come to the truth of Jesus before it is too late.
That, my friend, is love.
Because unlike your Allah who has already predestined everyone to either Heaven or Hell, Yahweh still gives time and hopes that even you, Muslim and Proud, will come to the truth of Jesus before it is too late.
That, my friend, is love.
written by Muslim and proud , March 16, 2012
"Because unlike your Allah who has already predestined everyone to either Heaven or Hell, Yahweh still gives time and hopes that even you, Muslim and Proud, will come to the truth of Jesus before it is too late."
I already have the truth - cheers.
I already have the truth - cheers.
written by Seam_On_Us , March 16, 2012
"I already have the truth - cheers."
Indeed, a truth that showed up 600 years after Christ. Sure...never mind the detailed accounts written by associates of eye-witnesses to the actual event less than 150 years after it occured.
In a court, your truth would fail and fall flat on its face when tested against the truth of Jesus Christ. I truly hope that you relinquish your stubborness and arrogance and search out this truth of yours for what it really is.
Indeed, a truth that showed up 600 years after Christ. Sure...never mind the detailed accounts written by associates of eye-witnesses to the actual event less than 150 years after it occured.
In a court, your truth would fail and fall flat on its face when tested against the truth of Jesus Christ. I truly hope that you relinquish your stubborness and arrogance and search out this truth of yours for what it really is.
written by Muslim and proud , March 16, 2012
"In a court, your truth would fail and fall flat on its face when tested against the truth of Jesus Christ."
You don't know the truth of Jesus (as). You consider him to be God right?
"I truly hope that you relinquish your stubborness and arrogance and search out this truth of yours for what it really is."
It really is the truth.
You don't know the truth of Jesus (as). You consider him to be God right?
"I truly hope that you relinquish your stubborness and arrogance and search out this truth of yours for what it really is."
It really is the truth.
written by duh_swami , March 16, 2012
Do you know about 'shirk'? Shirk is ascribing a partner or equal to Allah...It is a great sin, maybe the greatest...That Jesus is God, is shirk...When Jesus was recorded as saying, 'I and my father are one', that is shirk...When the Bible says, 'In the beginning there was the word, the word was with God and the word was God', it is shirk...The Holy Trinity is shirk...As long as Christians are shirkers, there is no way to convince Muslims that the Christian message has any value...That's why you get argument...
written by Muslim & Proud , March 16, 2012
Have you found the 3 references yet khan?
It's taking you an awfully long time?
It's taking you an awfully long time?
written by maninthemiddle , March 17, 2012
Everybody forgets that we are all HUMAN. I am in love with a girl from a Muslim family and was born into a Church of England family. I am free to denounce my Religion, yet she lives in fear of dis-ownership etc. If there is a God/Allah/One creator, I can tell you now that he'd be looking down on us, fighting over texts from hundreds and thousands of years ago, with absolute shame. Religion is cult, spirituality is the truth. I have read both the Holy Bible and the Qu'ran - both have been edited over the years to suit the needs of power hungry leaders and to control populations...Islam is very much guilty of continuing this trend, as Western communities have accepted a much more diverse and cosmopolitan way of living.
I came to this page to read up on constructive conversation about the two Religions and I am no closer to understanding why two good, hard working and very much loving people are being kept apart by pre-medieval drivel? How does all this hold relevance in the challenges that we all face in the 21st century...such as over-population, lack of natural resources and excessive poverty?
On a daily basis, I am experiencing Islam choking the life out of this gorgeous girl and our relationship - because she isn't allowed to marry a non-muslim...or "she'll go to hell". She is even secular! She doesn't cover up, enjoys a drink and Western life; yet is controlled by a guilt trip and aggressive level of control. Can anybody, whether pro or anti Islamic contribute to this??
I came to this page to read up on constructive conversation about the two Religions and I am no closer to understanding why two good, hard working and very much loving people are being kept apart by pre-medieval drivel? How does all this hold relevance in the challenges that we all face in the 21st century...such as over-population, lack of natural resources and excessive poverty?
On a daily basis, I am experiencing Islam choking the life out of this gorgeous girl and our relationship - because she isn't allowed to marry a non-muslim...or "she'll go to hell". She is even secular! She doesn't cover up, enjoys a drink and Western life; yet is controlled by a guilt trip and aggressive level of control. Can anybody, whether pro or anti Islamic contribute to this??
written by maninthemiddle , March 17, 2012
Sorry if this deviates from your thread... but essentially, I am being asked to join the Religion to appease the Mother. It is the same principle.... Join us, or we'll destroy your happiness.
written by fineliving56 , March 17, 2012
hello
I like to say I am so sorry for the fact that religion Islam s stopping you from being with your love ... any other religion women are allowed to marry from men different religions BUT NOT THE FILTHY Islam ... Islam is so jealous of its women they hold them hostages and the Muslim men the guards to keep the offspring Islamic ... but they give themselves freedom to marry anyone they from any religion. ... what a hypocrisy to its fullest
I am telling you your love with Muslim beautiful women going to have no fruit ... Moderates and extremists forbid women from marring .. parents will disown or kill their daughter ... I will tell it is a cures if there is one ...
it is just the human mind at its worse ... the worst being Muslim Zombies
You can love some one but you do not have to be with them !!!... it is sad ...but it is better then loss her completely ... to death or banishment
fineliving56 ... ex Muslimah
I like to say I am so sorry for the fact that religion Islam s stopping you from being with your love ... any other religion women are allowed to marry from men different religions BUT NOT THE FILTHY Islam ... Islam is so jealous of its women they hold them hostages and the Muslim men the guards to keep the offspring Islamic ... but they give themselves freedom to marry anyone they from any religion. ... what a hypocrisy to its fullest
I am telling you your love with Muslim beautiful women going to have no fruit ... Moderates and extremists forbid women from marring .. parents will disown or kill their daughter ... I will tell it is a cures if there is one ...
it is just the human mind at its worse ... the worst being Muslim Zombies
You can love some one but you do not have to be with them !!!... it is sad ...but it is better then loss her completely ... to death or banishment
fineliving56 ... ex Muslimah
written by Muslim & Proud , March 17, 2012
Fineliving56 claims she is an ex-muslimah. In my opinion, she is just an Islam hater who is using this as a front to try and help this website prove that it has managed to help just one person leave Islam.
As for your situation, it is not uncommon these days and if your partner was a practising muslim, who had good role models, chances are she would not be in this mess.
You say she drinks and enjoys the western life - she should therefore not have any reluctance in marrying you. On the other hand, it sounds like she does at least have some allegiance to Islam, hence the guilt trip.
As far as Islam is concerned, there is no way there is any flexibility for a muslim woman to marry a non-muslim man.
As for your situation, it is not uncommon these days and if your partner was a practising muslim, who had good role models, chances are she would not be in this mess.
You say she drinks and enjoys the western life - she should therefore not have any reluctance in marrying you. On the other hand, it sounds like she does at least have some allegiance to Islam, hence the guilt trip.
As far as Islam is concerned, there is no way there is any flexibility for a muslim woman to marry a non-muslim man.
written by fineliving56 , March 17, 2012
Yes ....He can keep telling him self that .... No mater ... haha
I have a front ? .... Haha
To ...........M Middel
One of the reasons I left Islam is because of that rule you are talking about
A Muslim women can not choose a non Muslim man ... but a Muslim man CAN ... and that IS UNFAIR
THAT IS WHY I AM NO LONGER A MUSLIMAH ... AMONG HUNDREDS OF REASONS like the sanctions of beating women when she disobeys in $/34 ... mostly women issues.
Islam is nothing but a lie
I have a front ? .... Haha
To ...........M Middel
One of the reasons I left Islam is because of that rule you are talking about
A Muslim women can not choose a non Muslim man ... but a Muslim man CAN ... and that IS UNFAIR
THAT IS WHY I AM NO LONGER A MUSLIMAH ... AMONG HUNDREDS OF REASONS like the sanctions of beating women when she disobeys in $/34 ... mostly women issues.
Islam is nothing but a lie
written by Muslim & Proud , March 17, 2012
A Muslim women can not choose a non Muslim man ... but a Muslim man CAN ... and that IS UNFAIR
A non-muslim woman usually changes her surname after marriage to a non-muslim man. The non-muslim man is not required to do so...........
Women give birth to children...............men can't
One of the reasons I left Islam is because of that rule you are talking about
Oh - so you wanted to marry a non-muslim.......and this was after all of the muslim men you had previously married. Ok.
THAT IS WHY I AM NO LONGER A MUSLIMAH ... AMONG HUNDREDS OF REASONS like the sanctions of beating women when she disobeys in $/34 ... mostly women issues.
WHEN she disobeys? So it's not a case of IF she disobeys? Mmmm.....interesting. Oh and with regards to 'beating', there is no such 'sanction'.
Islam is nothing but a lie
So therefore, the 'sanction' you referred to is also a lie. Well done.
written by then lie , March 17, 2012
Archpagan , March 17, 2012
Koran is the biggest lie on earth. It's only a pirated edition of Judaism, nothing new. Muhammad, the desert pirate forced that pirated version of piety on the people of Arabia and adjoining land by force and deceit. As a man he was the most lecherous, vindictive, cruel and selfish and so also his God allah. His followers avidly follow that lechery and ferocity and call themselves religious. All Koran lovers are criminals in essence.
Archpagan.
Quran The biggest lie?pirated edition of Judaism??
for what???where you school??who is your teacher?xixixi
this prove....prof Maurice Buchile from france back to islam after reseach bodies faraoh. one body from seven which contains salt, and he concluded that the bodies that are dead against the prophet Moses in the red sea, and an Egyptian Muslim friend suggests that the story was already there in the Quran, how the body of the pharaoh who has condem by God has Allah save. for example for those whom will come included the leader today's world. He eventually returned to islam.
Holy Quran say:
Yunus 10:92. But this day We (Allah)save thee in thy body that thou mayest be a portent for those after thee. Lo! most of mankind areheedless of Our portents.
Koran is the biggest lie on earth. It's only a pirated edition of Judaism, nothing new. Muhammad, the desert pirate forced that pirated version of piety on the people of Arabia and adjoining land by force and deceit. As a man he was the most lecherous, vindictive, cruel and selfish and so also his God allah. His followers avidly follow that lechery and ferocity and call themselves religious. All Koran lovers are criminals in essence.
Archpagan.
Quran The biggest lie?pirated edition of Judaism??
for what???where you school??who is your teacher?xixixi
this prove....prof Maurice Buchile from france back to islam after reseach bodies faraoh. one body from seven which contains salt, and he concluded that the bodies that are dead against the prophet Moses in the red sea, and an Egyptian Muslim friend suggests that the story was already there in the Quran, how the body of the pharaoh who has condem by God has Allah save. for example for those whom will come included the leader today's world. He eventually returned to islam.
Holy Quran say:
Yunus 10:92. But this day We (Allah)save thee in thy body that thou mayest be a portent for those after thee. Lo! most of mankind areheedless of Our portents.
written by duh_swami , March 18, 2012
written by then lie, March 18, 2012
ok.go hell with your stupid pastor
Then lie my friend, it's not nice to send someone to hell...I thought that was Allah's job?
You are not Allah are you? It would be better to tell pastor to jump off a bridge, or play on the freeway...Those are not nice either and far below your standards, but at least you would not be infringing on Allah's territory...
ok.go hell with your stupid pastor
Then lie my friend, it's not nice to send someone to hell...I thought that was Allah's job?
You are not Allah are you? It would be better to tell pastor to jump off a bridge, or play on the freeway...Those are not nice either and far below your standards, but at least you would not be infringing on Allah's territory...
written by maninthemiddle , March 18, 2012
MuslimandProud & fineliving56, thank you both for your perspectives on the issue.
Muslimandproud, I understand that you are very loyal to your belief system - but it is pretty poor form to suggest that this is a big "mess", as if she shouldn't be mixing with me. It couldn't be helped anyway - we sat next to each other at work and just got on like a house on fire! You don't know me as man, morally, or in any other way and everyone should be judged on their actions, not their "title or tag". Don't get me wrong - I think the premise of living with a clean heart is a good one, but I can't understand this inflexibility and control. Why are women in every other major Religion allowed to do as they please, yet in Islam, women have fear struck into them for deviating? I am not looking to pick a fight with you here - I want to try and understand it all. If you can shed light on this, I'd appreciate it. Fasting and prayer are two examples of instilling discipline and gratitude - peaceful elements of the Religion. However, I am failing to see why there is so much aggression over females? Take Sikh's for example. It is in their creed never to impose their beliefs on others - yet in Islam, followers are encouraged to convert others as it improves their chance of entering "Paradise"? Is that correct? The Girl in question did want me to convert, to make life easier in declaring the relationship - but should we have to lie about who we are?
Fineliving56; I respect that you found the courage to follow your heart. I believe that heaven is how you feel inside. I am probably fighting a losing battle on this one though.
At the end of the day, I'm not here to race hate or attack anybody. I just think it's a huge shame that disputes of over a thousand years ago are still stopping people from simply, getting along.
Thanks folks.
Muslimandproud, I understand that you are very loyal to your belief system - but it is pretty poor form to suggest that this is a big "mess", as if she shouldn't be mixing with me. It couldn't be helped anyway - we sat next to each other at work and just got on like a house on fire! You don't know me as man, morally, or in any other way and everyone should be judged on their actions, not their "title or tag". Don't get me wrong - I think the premise of living with a clean heart is a good one, but I can't understand this inflexibility and control. Why are women in every other major Religion allowed to do as they please, yet in Islam, women have fear struck into them for deviating? I am not looking to pick a fight with you here - I want to try and understand it all. If you can shed light on this, I'd appreciate it. Fasting and prayer are two examples of instilling discipline and gratitude - peaceful elements of the Religion. However, I am failing to see why there is so much aggression over females? Take Sikh's for example. It is in their creed never to impose their beliefs on others - yet in Islam, followers are encouraged to convert others as it improves their chance of entering "Paradise"? Is that correct? The Girl in question did want me to convert, to make life easier in declaring the relationship - but should we have to lie about who we are?
Fineliving56; I respect that you found the courage to follow your heart. I believe that heaven is how you feel inside. I am probably fighting a losing battle on this one though.
At the end of the day, I'm not here to race hate or attack anybody. I just think it's a huge shame that disputes of over a thousand years ago are still stopping people from simply, getting along.
Thanks folks.
written by Muslim and proud , March 18, 2012
I appreciate and respect your point of view and will provide a more detailed response later (time for prayer and that).
All the best.
All the best.
written by fineliving56 , March 18, 2012
The Muslim here try to sidetrack every conversation to justify their Islam ... nothing knew I live with Muslims ... I know
If you read his posts to me you will know what is he all about ...
When said ... Why all Muslim can not shoose from non Muslims as Muslims alowed to do in Islam ... and I said as to be fair and in according with principle.
he says with this non sense:
" so you want to marry a non Muslim''
this Muslim as you can see, wouldn't know logic and principle , if it hit him smack in the face .
If Islam is fair ... it should allow women to marry non Muslims or make men stop marrying non Muslimah ... it is the principle of it.
he has to make it personal because he has a mind of childish man ... and every poster here said so about him
Sorry to write all this to you but I wanted to clarify my position.
If you read his posts to me you will know what is he all about ...
When said ... Why all Muslim can not shoose from non Muslims as Muslims alowed to do in Islam ... and I said as to be fair and in according with principle.
he says with this non sense:
" so you want to marry a non Muslim''
this Muslim as you can see, wouldn't know logic and principle , if it hit him smack in the face .
If Islam is fair ... it should allow women to marry non Muslims or make men stop marrying non Muslimah ... it is the principle of it.
he has to make it personal because he has a mind of childish man ... and every poster here said so about him
Sorry to write all this to you but I wanted to clarify my position.
written by Yibel , March 18, 2012
You have nothing to be sorry about or apologize for, my dear. Islam is a political ideology that has built-in inequality. The Arab male is the master race, and can do virtually anything he wants. Muhammad designed this code to entice the local Arabs to join his military organization for conquest and domination of the world. He had a very large opinion of himself, and a very low opinion of everyone else.
The only way he could get followers was to provide them with booty and slave women for sex. Free stuff for the masses. He got rid of all of societies restrictions on behavior, and put in the: Do whatever feels good to you (Arab males only), the self as god philosophy of life. This philosophy is attractive to self-center individuals with low self-esteem - the bullies of the world.
But good will prevail. " Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid." Yah'shua in The Gospel According to John 15:27
May this inner peace reside in your heart,
Yibel
The only way he could get followers was to provide them with booty and slave women for sex. Free stuff for the masses. He got rid of all of societies restrictions on behavior, and put in the: Do whatever feels good to you (Arab males only), the self as god philosophy of life. This philosophy is attractive to self-center individuals with low self-esteem - the bullies of the world.
But good will prevail. " Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid." Yah'shua in The Gospel According to John 15:27
May this inner peace reside in your heart,
Yibel
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