A recent conversation with a Hindu reader on what I feel about the existence of the god and why I feel satisfied about living my life without having a religion...
Recently Mr. Gupta, a reader from Delhi, having landed on our site, found it “eye opening” and wondered how could we continue running this site, without being attacked or murdered by the Jihadis. He ended the email querying:
What is the alternative? Is Hinduism is a possible alternative?
In response I wrote:
This site is based in the West and we it anonymously. So, we can escape the sword of Jihadis.
Islam is obviously softening down. Another 'Satanic Verses' or Muhammad's cartoon would not raise the same uproar as it did in the first time. Every time it's repeated, Muslim's reaction would become softer. That's how 'freedom expression' works toward civilizing humanity.
Concerning alternative to Islam, we run this site from an atheistic standpoint, and we are quite happy with that. Muslims are leaving Islam, thanks to many efforts like ours. Many of them becoming atheists like us, other spiritualist, some joining other faiths: Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism etc.
Our observation suggests that Muslims of the subcontinent, when they leave Islam, become more respectful of Hinduism, simply because it's their civilizational religion. But they are not joining it in large numbers as full believers for the salvation of their soul or whatsoever.
However, we are not concerned about that. Our campaign is that Muslim leave Islam in the first place. Under any other category—believer of nonbeliever—they will obviously be more peaceful and productive. That’s all that count and important.
MA Khan
It turned out that Mr. Gupta is an enlightened Hindu. He wrote back the following response:
I appreciate your have courage to follow the truth whatever the price is for it. Till yesterday, you were a Muslim, and you were with them. But when you find that they are not true to what they say and what they believe and what they actually do, then you had enough courage to leave them. And today you are a true atheist.
As a born Hindu, I was like you, and like rest of 99.99% Hindu public, who do not know what actually Hinduism is all about.
Yesterday, I had a false ego that anybody, who is not a Hindu, is a traitor, misguided and low-minded person. But today after going a little bit in my books and learned people, I have learned that all human are equal. And unless they harm others in thought and practice, it is O.K. with them and us. But if they do harm the others, they should be stopped, as much as you can.
I believe that there is a power which controls everything: we name it God, ishwar, allah or nature. Since I trust you to be a truthful person, I want some reflection from you on this matter.
Please write me, what do you think about it? Is there such a power or personality, which is super human? We may call it by any name. And it is not a property of any group of people. It belongs to every creature on this earth. Does something like this exists, or not.
Or you think, this world is by chance or unknown principles, which we need not to worry. But then in this case, this world would be all a result of unknown combination of unplanned acts, and ‘being good to others’ would be again an institution just to benefit the so-called already benefiting republics, and institution. They just want this system to run like this, irrespective of whatever they believe or not.
I know what you are doing: making a site, effective writing, showing light to others, itself means that you are a believer of the institution ‘be good to others, without believing in god’.
I wish you all the success in your aim, goal and mission.
I replied:
Concerning your query about a superpower god controlling the universe, it's all our guess. There is no evidence for that. If we feel that the universe cannot come to existence without a creator, the creator himself cannot come into being without the hand of a higher creator... That way we end up in an infinite hierarchy of creators with no end.
On this ground, I am happy to be an atheist. And even if a god exist, I don't think he cares at all what we do or how we live our life. If he is the supreme creator and everything is under his control, then whatever we do, good or bad, is also under his control; he guides us into doing those. We can't be punished by him for that.
Most of all, the cultic establishments and rituals, as innumerable as they are and have been, that surround the institution of god, are obviously of no use to an all-powerful and self-sufficient creator. Humans are the most intelligent of creatures of the Mother Nature. They can the most stupid, superstitious and irrational too, and have created all these wasteful edifices of immense cost.
To my observation, humans, whether religious and nonreligious, are capable of doing, indeed do, good and bad things. And of course, religions have added to miseries to humanity too. History, past or present, is a testimony to that.
As an atheist and a rationalist, I think humans are capable of creating their own good ethical standards by applying their thinking ability rationally. Even what have been passed on as religious or revealed from god, are all basically human creations; nothing ever fell from the sky or heaven. If we study the society in historical context, we find that even the allegedly revealed creeds—like Judaism, Christianity or Islam—basically incorporated humanity's already accumulated social and cultural traditions, customs and ethical values: all these were combined together and passed on as revealed from the heaven. Those prophets created hardly anything new and value-adding to humanity, and certainly not civilization changing.
While humanity will never have perfect a society, indeed there's no such thing as 'perfect', because the standard of 'perfect' continues evolving as society evolves—still we can create a good society by following the teachings of sages like Socrates, who taught that we must live an ethical life, just because it is our responsibility for being a rational creation of nature. In his teachings, there was no divine 'will' or 'command' to do so, or no reward from god to be reaped for living the ethical life. Humans must live good life as part of her/his human responsibility; and also because, it makes one feel good. By harming others, one will never feel good about it; by doing good to others, one certainly will. Living a good ethical life was in the interest of ones own good and happiness and fulfilling one’s responsibility as the rational and ethical creature of nature.
MA Khan
Mr. Gupta replied saying that he would love one day to do something like our effort at islam-watch.org, but directed at the religion of his birth, Hinduism. He mentioned that 'islam-watch' was an inspiration for him to undertake his own mission.
[The conversation slightly edited]
Comments (45)
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written by vbv , July 03, 2009
I am really heartened to learn that the owner of this site is a confirmed atheist. There is no 'god' for there is absolutely no eveidence for it. 'god' is the creation of charlatans,scoundrels ,immoral wimps.... who want to have all the power and pelf to rule over the gullible idiots by oppressing them while they enjoy absolute freedom to do anything and get away with it unquestioned ,for those who dare question these scoundrels will be tortured and killed by them or their zombified zealots! Get rid of religion and other tyrannical idealogies like communism,Maoism,Fascism,,etc. the world will be a better place without so much of wars and bloodshed.
written by Philip Saenz , July 03, 2009
Mr. MA Kahn, of course I respect you immensely, but only because you're sincere and a very good person. I would like to make one small correction in your conversation with a Hindu reader. You mention that you don't have to fear the "sword of the Jihadis." Sir, that should read the "CURVED sword of the Jihadis."
You have a religion, but it's your own. I like your observations. Some day you will know that there is a Cause of all causes, a Person with no beginning, an eternal Person. Every day this Cause chases you. You can't help but think of this Cause because He puts Himself in your conscience that He endowed you with. Do you believe you gave yourself that conscience? Unfortunately many people disobey their conscience and commit atrocities.
With me, it's different because of the supernatural experiences that I have had, many of them. With me it isn't guess work or faith. It is reality. However, I'll admit that before the supernatural experiences, it was faith. I could not go against that faith, and now I cannot go against what I have heard and seen.
May the Cause of all causes bless you.
vbv, let me remind you that atheistic Nazism and atheistic Communism also rejected God. I detect hostility in your writing, but not in Mr. Khan's writing. I also do not detect hostility in Mr. Ali Sina's writing. He's another excellent exMuslim. Thank you and may God bless you also, vbv.
You have a religion, but it's your own. I like your observations. Some day you will know that there is a Cause of all causes, a Person with no beginning, an eternal Person. Every day this Cause chases you. You can't help but think of this Cause because He puts Himself in your conscience that He endowed you with. Do you believe you gave yourself that conscience? Unfortunately many people disobey their conscience and commit atrocities.
With me, it's different because of the supernatural experiences that I have had, many of them. With me it isn't guess work or faith. It is reality. However, I'll admit that before the supernatural experiences, it was faith. I could not go against that faith, and now I cannot go against what I have heard and seen.
May the Cause of all causes bless you.
vbv, let me remind you that atheistic Nazism and atheistic Communism also rejected God. I detect hostility in your writing, but not in Mr. Khan's writing. I also do not detect hostility in Mr. Ali Sina's writing. He's another excellent exMuslim. Thank you and may God bless you also, vbv.
written by Non believer , July 03, 2009
Nice discussion. Even I don't believe that there is a person called God. There could be some force/energy which is guiding this world but nobody has seen it. He she or it can not be angry if we don't pray,follow rituals,or offer bribes like sevas in temples etc. It will be against the definition of a divine quality. As long as we live our lives without harming other creations of nature we need not fear the wrath of god even if he she or it does exist. Sage Vedavyasa when asked to give the gist of his 100,000 verses of Mahabharatha is believed to have said "why one it can be said in half a verse. PAROPAKARAM PUNYAAYA PAAPAAYA PARAPEEDANAM." Meaning helping others is virtue and harming others is sin.
If we just follow this one principle without insisting on propagating our religion as true religion and our god as true god we would have lived a worthy life. All the strife in the world is because people want to impose their thoughts, beLIEfs religion and God on others. What does a theist lose if his fellow human being is an atheist? Why should he bother uplifting an atheist. To satiate his ego he is harming others. So his own god, if that god has divine qualities should send this theist to hell if it is there.
If we just follow this one principle without insisting on propagating our religion as true religion and our god as true god we would have lived a worthy life. All the strife in the world is because people want to impose their thoughts, beLIEfs religion and God on others. What does a theist lose if his fellow human being is an atheist? Why should he bother uplifting an atheist. To satiate his ego he is harming others. So his own god, if that god has divine qualities should send this theist to hell if it is there.
written by Anti Clot , July 03, 2009
While there can be no evidence for or against god by definition, everybody should be free to believe in what he wants to believe. But if people begin to believe that they are the only ones who possess a writing written by god himself and that god does not love anybody except themselves and that all others will go to hell while only themselves will enter heaven, not to forget to say that they will be sexually satisfied with 72 horny virgins - then I really need to puke! Islam teaches muslims that they are better and that they are superior and that there is no need to learn anything from others. While this is the reason why the muslim world is so behind, they will never get it by themselves and prefer to live in ignorance what they call superiority by themselves. Muslims are like ants who have no intelligence at all but who are still programmed to believe that they are superior.
written by vbv , July 03, 2009
God is an invention that crooks ,deluded fools ,charlatans and the like have invented. There is no proof for the existence of such a super-spook called god/allah/yahweh,etc except in the fictional books they call "scriptures" ,and this spook cannot come out of these so-called "scriptyres" since their sustenance is dependent on the lies told in those "scriptures" with all the trappings of " miracles" and destructions . This super-spook comes out merely as a despot craving for adulation,undivided attention and abject submission. Or else, it is the imaginary hell for you. This super-spook is the product of such charlatans,idiots,deluded fools,wicked schemers,evil pranksters who are power-hungry despot with infinite avarice for pelf. If this super-spook is the 'creator' ,then who is the creator of this creator? And so on ad infinitum..... All sane and intelligent people should come together and denounce gog and religion as an evil practice by scoundrels and charlatans and be done away with it once and for all.
written by duh_swami , July 03, 2009
From a slightly different perspective...When Moses asked God his name, God avoided the name issue by saying 'I AM THAT I AM'...This means pure existence...It is not indicative of a 'personal God'...Pure existence is the cosmic condition where everything is possible but nothing yet is happening...As a picture, pure existence is like the calm ocean, smooth as glass, when it manifests something into physical existence it is like a wave in the ocean that comes up, peaks and declines back into the calm, only to rise again and repeat the process over and over. Everything that exists, exists now, in the present, real time, not in the past and not in the future...I AM THAT I AM, is always in the present...it is unity...If you look at this as God, it conforms to 'God is one', and omnipresent...but this has nothing to do with a personal God that's going to punish you for not obeying...But a personal god has been attached to YHVH...The process is about right, but the attachment is wrong...
The 'Creator is not God'...The creator is constantly trying to kill us, which is why we have science and medical science, to control the creator. We can't get rid of the creator, but it can be controlled...This is the ultimate goal of all science...The creator should not be worshipped, only controlled.
The 'Creator is not God'...The creator is constantly trying to kill us, which is why we have science and medical science, to control the creator. We can't get rid of the creator, but it can be controlled...This is the ultimate goal of all science...The creator should not be worshipped, only controlled.
written by No God , July 03, 2009
The problem with God is not whether there is or isn't. It is a fact and being proven beyond reasonable doubt that the word god had being abused by all the religions to deciet the gullible ignorances to achieve their own objective. In the name of god, all the so call self proclaim prophet, like Abraham, Jesus and Mohamad, give themself the authority to claim the righthood to all the truth. That is the problem with the belief in one god. That is the reason we cannot believe in god in this tweeth frist century.
All the claimed of prophecy should be debunk in this 21st century, thro fact and science. Like what mohamad said, he is the last prophet or he is the last lier.
All the claimed of prophecy should be debunk in this 21st century, thro fact and science. Like what mohamad said, he is the last prophet or he is the last lier.
written by john , July 03, 2009
Anywhere and anywhen there has been a recognizably human society, that society has entertained religious behavior. If we make an observation that some behavior is universal in a given population of animals, we can be comfortable is ascribing that behavior to evolution/genetics.
In example, all robins build nests in trees. We can imagine a time when proto robins experimented with different strategies for incubating eggs, and those robins who hid their eggs in tall grass or buried them in sand were not as successful in passing on their genes.
Human beings also universally have language, and like religion, the specifics of language are determined by socialization. No specific language is imprinted in our genetic material, only the capacity for language.
I have heard many Muslims, Christians, Hindus and Buddhists talk about their experience in religion as a definite sense of the proximity of transcendence. Many very religious people consider this "feeling of holiness" as evidence that the provencial myths and legends about their god are literally true.
It may be, however, that any religious practice might generate such feelings regardless of what might be believed because of this feeling.
The alternative is that everyone is lying about "having Jesus in their heart" (or whatever) and I doubt that so many people are not "feeling something" but saying that they do.
The prefix "a" in front of a word means "without". "Amorality" means without morals. I find the word "atheism" does not describe me, as I am no more without a god than I am without a leprechaun or a unicorn.
I am a nontheist.
Nevertheless, I have found that I may invoke that feeling of holy transcendence simply by making room for it in my life. I do not need to have myths and superstitions just to indulge in the sensation of transcendence.
Without commenting on various interpretations of "this experience", I offer the idea that all religions work equally well in fomenting this experience.
Personally, I would consider my life incomplete without this sensation of transcendence. It is part of the universal experience of being a human being.
I would offer the idea that just because you become objective enough to disbelieve the myths of religion (and congratulations on that!) You do not need to disassociate yourself from the sensation of transcendence. (proximity of God, whatever)
In example, all robins build nests in trees. We can imagine a time when proto robins experimented with different strategies for incubating eggs, and those robins who hid their eggs in tall grass or buried them in sand were not as successful in passing on their genes.
Human beings also universally have language, and like religion, the specifics of language are determined by socialization. No specific language is imprinted in our genetic material, only the capacity for language.
I have heard many Muslims, Christians, Hindus and Buddhists talk about their experience in religion as a definite sense of the proximity of transcendence. Many very religious people consider this "feeling of holiness" as evidence that the provencial myths and legends about their god are literally true.
It may be, however, that any religious practice might generate such feelings regardless of what might be believed because of this feeling.
The alternative is that everyone is lying about "having Jesus in their heart" (or whatever) and I doubt that so many people are not "feeling something" but saying that they do.
The prefix "a" in front of a word means "without". "Amorality" means without morals. I find the word "atheism" does not describe me, as I am no more without a god than I am without a leprechaun or a unicorn.
I am a nontheist.
Nevertheless, I have found that I may invoke that feeling of holy transcendence simply by making room for it in my life. I do not need to have myths and superstitions just to indulge in the sensation of transcendence.
Without commenting on various interpretations of "this experience", I offer the idea that all religions work equally well in fomenting this experience.
Personally, I would consider my life incomplete without this sensation of transcendence. It is part of the universal experience of being a human being.
I would offer the idea that just because you become objective enough to disbelieve the myths of religion (and congratulations on that!) You do not need to disassociate yourself from the sensation of transcendence. (proximity of God, whatever)
written by HT , July 03, 2009
" I had a false ego that anybody, who is not a Hindu, is a traitor, misguided and low-minded person."
Hinduism does not teach that non-Hindus are traitors. The way he wrote it implies that he thinks that way because of Hinduism. Basic understanding in Hinduism is that God is called by many names - "Ishwara, Allah, is your name." That is from one popular bhajan. What annoys missionaries about Hinduism is that Hindus would put Jesus among every other God/Goddess to worship and not to worship alone. Hinduism is not a big proselytizing religion. Hindus don't really care what other ethnic groups believe, or how they worship. The conflict that Hindus have with monotheistic Abrahamic faiths of Christianity and Islam is that Hindus are expected to convert and worship God in their way and their way alone.
Hinduism does not teach that non-Hindus are traitors. The way he wrote it implies that he thinks that way because of Hinduism. Basic understanding in Hinduism is that God is called by many names - "Ishwara, Allah, is your name." That is from one popular bhajan. What annoys missionaries about Hinduism is that Hindus would put Jesus among every other God/Goddess to worship and not to worship alone. Hinduism is not a big proselytizing religion. Hindus don't really care what other ethnic groups believe, or how they worship. The conflict that Hindus have with monotheistic Abrahamic faiths of Christianity and Islam is that Hindus are expected to convert and worship God in their way and their way alone.
written by HT , July 03, 2009
If Mr. Gupta wants to know more about his religion, Hinduism, I would suggest reading "The Hindu Mind" by Bansi Pandit. There was a lot of deliberate misunderstandings of Hinduism promoted during the British Raj colonialists.
written by HT , July 03, 2009
Through their spiritual experiences, the rishis discovered that there are many ways of conceiving the Ultimate Reality and numerous ways of approaching it. Thus they declared in the Rig Veda, over eight thousand years ago (Rig Veda 1.164.46) "The Truth is one, the wise call it by various names."
The Ultimate Reality of Truth was called Brahman by the sages of the Upanishads. "The manifestation of Brahman in each and every human being is the atman," the sages declared. "Brahman and atman are one. All is One and One is in all." ... All human beings are thus members of one large family of God, where is the the father, mother, friend and savior of all. Therefore, it is wrong and harmful, Hindus say to insist that one's own path towards God is the only way. This vision of religious tolerance is rooted in the kind of doubt reflected in the last verse of the Hymn of Creation in the Rig Veda: "None knoweth whence creation has arisen, and whether He has or has not produced it. He who surveys it in the highest heavens, he only know, or perhaps he knows not. (Rig Veda 10.129)
This hesitancy (reflected in the words perhaps he knows not of the above verse) to claim superiority and exclusiveness of thought, beliefs, and practices, has minimized dogmatism in Hindu religion. For this reason, the belief in religious tolerance, and the love of mankind has been the living ideal of Hindus throughout the ages. There are many historical examples of this ideology, including India's providing shelter to Zoroastrians when Persia was conquered by the Arabs. At that time a large number of Zoroastrians were forced to accept Islam, but many devout followers left Persia and traveled to India where they were given refuge by Hindus. Since that time their descendants, the Parsees, have kept their faith alive in India.
-Bansi Pandit, The Hindu Mind.
The Ultimate Reality of Truth was called Brahman by the sages of the Upanishads. "The manifestation of Brahman in each and every human being is the atman," the sages declared. "Brahman and atman are one. All is One and One is in all." ... All human beings are thus members of one large family of God, where is the the father, mother, friend and savior of all. Therefore, it is wrong and harmful, Hindus say to insist that one's own path towards God is the only way. This vision of religious tolerance is rooted in the kind of doubt reflected in the last verse of the Hymn of Creation in the Rig Veda: "None knoweth whence creation has arisen, and whether He has or has not produced it. He who surveys it in the highest heavens, he only know, or perhaps he knows not. (Rig Veda 10.129)
This hesitancy (reflected in the words perhaps he knows not of the above verse) to claim superiority and exclusiveness of thought, beliefs, and practices, has minimized dogmatism in Hindu religion. For this reason, the belief in religious tolerance, and the love of mankind has been the living ideal of Hindus throughout the ages. There are many historical examples of this ideology, including India's providing shelter to Zoroastrians when Persia was conquered by the Arabs. At that time a large number of Zoroastrians were forced to accept Islam, but many devout followers left Persia and traveled to India where they were given refuge by Hindus. Since that time their descendants, the Parsees, have kept their faith alive in India.
-Bansi Pandit, The Hindu Mind.
written by tanstaafl , July 03, 2009
I respect all religions around the world. I do not respect Islam since I do not believe that it is a religion and Muslims are encouraged to regard me as a kufr, an unclean person the equivalent of feces.
written by Highlander , July 03, 2009
Let us consider the vastness of the universe. Here we are on a piece of rock called Earth gazing into the sky. The Earth is a part of the solar system with the sun as the nearest star.Light travels at 669,000,000 miles per hour and it takes 8 minutes to reach the earth from the sun. It takes 5 hours 30 mts to reach Pluto.Light takes 4.4 light years to reach our closest star after the sun. Our galaxy, the Milky Way, is composed of at least 220,000,000,000 stars.And how many galaxies are there of billions of stars? To date, we’ve discovered about 255,000,000,000 galaxies—like and unlike our Milky Way. And we’re discovering between 25 and 125 new galaxies everyday.That is HUGE.The universe is too big for any faith and even for God. Even if a god could create it, he wouldn’t know what to do with it .Now scientists are looking into the theory that there has not been a single Big bang but infinite Big bangs with the universe self creating self destroying since infinity.
Coming to morals, they evolve as society progresses. Compassion and empathy are not restricted to human beings but is also found in animals. One can be a moral person without the need of a personal God.
What I have written in this post is fine but I just hope Big Daddy of the skies exists and he is not a lie, though the evidence for his existence is rather weak.
Coming to morals, they evolve as society progresses. Compassion and empathy are not restricted to human beings but is also found in animals. One can be a moral person without the need of a personal God.
What I have written in this post is fine but I just hope Big Daddy of the skies exists and he is not a lie, though the evidence for his existence is rather weak.
written by Isam , July 03, 2009
Your argument is even less credible than the ones Islamist claim of more Muslims converting to Islam. They can prove it and you can not. Or is it that all Muslims leaving Islam are in hiding. You are a real joker Mr. Khan.
written by Shiva Worshipper , July 03, 2009
When atheist or people from monotheist religion talk about God, they visualize it from there own experiences and to them it is some big boss, creating everything and looking after every small issue and punishing those who don’t agree, I think Hindu God is different then this God.
There are thousands of views in Hinduism, but I think Sum total of everything is God and if there is a physical God then its just like Blue Print of a house, the physical God is just like the Guide if you got lost in your life. If blue print reassembles everything, that does not mean its more important than anything else in the house, like table, chair or bedroom. It’s the Sum total of whole which created everything and you live in that whole, you don’t live in the blue print.
Mr. Khan says Perfection cannot be achieved, my personal experience says perfection can be achieved but it’s the end of the Game, so I deliberately stay away from perfection and keep some impurities in my character so that we can play this game in the next cycle. What matter to me is, how much imperfections I want. Too much of them will make me dirty animal like Allah and without imperfection I may loose touch with animal desires, carvings and fears of humans and may become useless for humanity. We cannot be too much serious all the time, some time have to stay in a light mood.
The game of lose and wins, coming together and getting lost in the crowd, happy moments and sad moments, its all about engaging the soul and intelligence. Just like your stomach needs food or it starts cramping, similarly intelligence need problem solving and soul need emotions, the game have to be played to satisfy those needs. What matters is that game may not become too personal, we play for fun, not to be punished or killed but at some stage shit happens, but we cannot stop eating for fear of shit.
At night moon creates high tides in the ocean and during the day sun bring those tides under control. Similarly the God at the seed of moon cult of Islam raises the stack in the game, where game is not about small wins or lost with your friends but its about die-hard enemies trying to eliminate and kill each other. God of Hinduism try to diffuse hate and animosity and doesn’t matter how Personal Allah makes it, God of Hinduism still forgive the seed of Allah, even he knows that he will become dangerous animal and nasty competitor again. Its because God of Hinduism knows that emotional Sea (Bhav Sagar) is about emotions (Bhavana) and all of us at some stage have wished to ride through the emotional wave and wave need to have a high point and low point ( a morally high God and morally low God).
Morally low God, cannot eliminate the higher God because he is beyond his reach and the higher God cannot eliminate the lower God because to eliminate him, he has to become morally low like him. If hero kill the villain in last scene of the movie, than the villain may start laughing while dying and says that just like you got reason to kill me, I was also having reasons to kill the people I killed, you have become killer, just like me!
By the way I think, its irrational for any God on earth to claim to be master of Universe because we cannot be master of unknown. Either humans or this God should know everything about the universe or we are dangerously misguiding ourselves because tomorrow earth may be invaded by aliens and they may prove that their lowest being is superior than our earthly God, who claim to be master of the Universe.
There are thousands of views in Hinduism, but I think Sum total of everything is God and if there is a physical God then its just like Blue Print of a house, the physical God is just like the Guide if you got lost in your life. If blue print reassembles everything, that does not mean its more important than anything else in the house, like table, chair or bedroom. It’s the Sum total of whole which created everything and you live in that whole, you don’t live in the blue print.
Mr. Khan says Perfection cannot be achieved, my personal experience says perfection can be achieved but it’s the end of the Game, so I deliberately stay away from perfection and keep some impurities in my character so that we can play this game in the next cycle. What matter to me is, how much imperfections I want. Too much of them will make me dirty animal like Allah and without imperfection I may loose touch with animal desires, carvings and fears of humans and may become useless for humanity. We cannot be too much serious all the time, some time have to stay in a light mood.
The game of lose and wins, coming together and getting lost in the crowd, happy moments and sad moments, its all about engaging the soul and intelligence. Just like your stomach needs food or it starts cramping, similarly intelligence need problem solving and soul need emotions, the game have to be played to satisfy those needs. What matters is that game may not become too personal, we play for fun, not to be punished or killed but at some stage shit happens, but we cannot stop eating for fear of shit.
At night moon creates high tides in the ocean and during the day sun bring those tides under control. Similarly the God at the seed of moon cult of Islam raises the stack in the game, where game is not about small wins or lost with your friends but its about die-hard enemies trying to eliminate and kill each other. God of Hinduism try to diffuse hate and animosity and doesn’t matter how Personal Allah makes it, God of Hinduism still forgive the seed of Allah, even he knows that he will become dangerous animal and nasty competitor again. Its because God of Hinduism knows that emotional Sea (Bhav Sagar) is about emotions (Bhavana) and all of us at some stage have wished to ride through the emotional wave and wave need to have a high point and low point ( a morally high God and morally low God).
Morally low God, cannot eliminate the higher God because he is beyond his reach and the higher God cannot eliminate the lower God because to eliminate him, he has to become morally low like him. If hero kill the villain in last scene of the movie, than the villain may start laughing while dying and says that just like you got reason to kill me, I was also having reasons to kill the people I killed, you have become killer, just like me!
By the way I think, its irrational for any God on earth to claim to be master of Universe because we cannot be master of unknown. Either humans or this God should know everything about the universe or we are dangerously misguiding ourselves because tomorrow earth may be invaded by aliens and they may prove that their lowest being is superior than our earthly God, who claim to be master of the Universe.
written by Shiva Worshipper , July 03, 2009
Muslim Claim: Islam is religion of peace and we only kill people in Self defence
Question: What Self defence you were practicing in India for thousand years, was Mecca under constant attack by the Indians in those thousand years.
Muslim Claim: Muslims were tolerant and peaceful rulers, that’s why still majority of people in India are Hindu.
Question: If you were so powerful that you could eliminate all Hindus from India, then why did you stopped ruling? Is it because all the Muslim rulers suddenly attained sainthood and thought to give away there powers to indigenous people or did their teeth got broken trying to break the tough nuts in India and taking advantage of that, someone came in and dig a union jack in their halal hole.
Muslim Claim: We are not Indian, Pakistan, Bangladeshi or whatever we are One people from Arabia to Indonesia and people from all colour and race are in Islam, which proves that Islam is Universal religion for Humanity and religion of true God.
Answer: If we consider earth as one living organism, then situation is like this, people from different race and religions are like various organs of the body, who don’t know how and why they coordinate with each other at higher level of existence and how there combined work become one. It’s the soul in the body, which is kept highly protected and which is like a Blue print for the body to work as one unit.
When shit forms in the body, it keep on poisoning various parts in the body and keep on taking away cells from them and start growing. When Shit become heavy and big enough compared to biggest organ in the body and cannot be controlled by organs in the body, it start troubling the soul and start making the same claim, as made by Muslims.
I am one big lump from your stomach to arse, I got cells from all parts of your body, so that means I am Master of this body. If Shit is allowed to control the system then body will die and decompose because, once all people become Muslims, then they will kill and torture each other to establish who is more true and pure Muslim than other and the decomposition will continue until humans are completely wiped out. To save the body, the soul just focus on the arse hole and it opens up and the pressure which shit created to reach the soul and declare itself Master of the body, backfires the shit out of the body. So doesn’t matter what Muslims try to save Islam, everything is going to backfire because arse hole has opened.
I personally don’t believe in dominance, I believe im mutual understanding and common good, live and let live, but its Islam which has forced eviction upon itself. I asked the Muslims, if all non-Muslims go and live on other planets, will Muslims stop chasing them ? There reply was NO, we are born as slaves of Allah and we cannot stop until every infidel we can reach, surrender to Allah. So the only option left to save my soul is to force Allah under submission and I don’t need to put finger in my arse and become dirty to do that, we got long experience to set things in place, so that shit backfires itself.
Thirty percent of world population cannot be given off as shit, so knowledge revolution and anti Muslim websites are just the filters, so that people whose conscious is not completely dead, may be revived from Islamic poisoning and become productive and peaceful members of humanity.
Food is taken by choice but Shit happens, but by fearing shit we cannot stop eating food. We cannot stop building temples and stop believing in God because someone is going to destroy the temples and cheat us in the name of God . We cannot stop gaining and documenting knowledge because someone is going to burn all the books one day. We cannot stop making colourful clothes and jewellery for women because one day someone is going to force them into wearing a black Burqa. We cannot stop trusting and caring for our friends and brothers because one day some of them are going to fall for poison of Islam and back stab us.
Question: What Self defence you were practicing in India for thousand years, was Mecca under constant attack by the Indians in those thousand years.
Muslim Claim: Muslims were tolerant and peaceful rulers, that’s why still majority of people in India are Hindu.
Question: If you were so powerful that you could eliminate all Hindus from India, then why did you stopped ruling? Is it because all the Muslim rulers suddenly attained sainthood and thought to give away there powers to indigenous people or did their teeth got broken trying to break the tough nuts in India and taking advantage of that, someone came in and dig a union jack in their halal hole.
Muslim Claim: We are not Indian, Pakistan, Bangladeshi or whatever we are One people from Arabia to Indonesia and people from all colour and race are in Islam, which proves that Islam is Universal religion for Humanity and religion of true God.
Answer: If we consider earth as one living organism, then situation is like this, people from different race and religions are like various organs of the body, who don’t know how and why they coordinate with each other at higher level of existence and how there combined work become one. It’s the soul in the body, which is kept highly protected and which is like a Blue print for the body to work as one unit.
When shit forms in the body, it keep on poisoning various parts in the body and keep on taking away cells from them and start growing. When Shit become heavy and big enough compared to biggest organ in the body and cannot be controlled by organs in the body, it start troubling the soul and start making the same claim, as made by Muslims.
I am one big lump from your stomach to arse, I got cells from all parts of your body, so that means I am Master of this body. If Shit is allowed to control the system then body will die and decompose because, once all people become Muslims, then they will kill and torture each other to establish who is more true and pure Muslim than other and the decomposition will continue until humans are completely wiped out. To save the body, the soul just focus on the arse hole and it opens up and the pressure which shit created to reach the soul and declare itself Master of the body, backfires the shit out of the body. So doesn’t matter what Muslims try to save Islam, everything is going to backfire because arse hole has opened.
I personally don’t believe in dominance, I believe im mutual understanding and common good, live and let live, but its Islam which has forced eviction upon itself. I asked the Muslims, if all non-Muslims go and live on other planets, will Muslims stop chasing them ? There reply was NO, we are born as slaves of Allah and we cannot stop until every infidel we can reach, surrender to Allah. So the only option left to save my soul is to force Allah under submission and I don’t need to put finger in my arse and become dirty to do that, we got long experience to set things in place, so that shit backfires itself.
Thirty percent of world population cannot be given off as shit, so knowledge revolution and anti Muslim websites are just the filters, so that people whose conscious is not completely dead, may be revived from Islamic poisoning and become productive and peaceful members of humanity.
Food is taken by choice but Shit happens, but by fearing shit we cannot stop eating food. We cannot stop building temples and stop believing in God because someone is going to destroy the temples and cheat us in the name of God . We cannot stop gaining and documenting knowledge because someone is going to burn all the books one day. We cannot stop making colourful clothes and jewellery for women because one day someone is going to force them into wearing a black Burqa. We cannot stop trusting and caring for our friends and brothers because one day some of them are going to fall for poison of Islam and back stab us.
written by MA Khan , July 03, 2009
Isam, don't invent lies and put it on my tongue. I never said all muslims are living Islam. Thanks to works like ours, Muslims have started mastering courage to leave Islam (see our 'Leaving Islam' testimony page). That what I mean; it doesn't mean all Muslims are leaving Islam..
written by THERE IS NO GOD/ALLAH....THIS , July 04, 2009
THERE IS NO GOD/ALLAH....THIS IS A PROVEN FACT.
no jehova/allah cretaed man from mud/dirt.nor any brahmin came from any god mouth nor any kshatriya form any god shoulder nor any vaishya from any god leg nor any shudra from any god foot.
we r evoled by nature,and proof is in our own dna.
yes there is a supreme power,this power is nature.
nature exists before creation and also after it.
nature is truth,and if any god exists it is nature and nother but nature.
i am an indian ex-muslim from 1992,and i turned away from religion and became a spiritual person instead,and believe in humanity and nature.
love respect and worship nature and planet eatrh for
preserving it for future generations.
i do yoga,pranayam,and meditation,andthe god=nature i realise through this is pure love
and compassion.
no rituals,no nothing just simply love and compassion
and non analytical approach to life.
not a hate based imaginary deity like jehova/allah.
its better to bow to yr own country-motherland than to a stone in desert.
vande bharat mataram
written by Isam , July 04, 2009
Ok Mr. Khan can you please provide us with statistics of how many Muslims are leaving Islam and in which part of the world…etc.
For example following 911 there were statistics published about Americans converting to Islam, the study stated that around 20,000 people are converting to Islam each year mostly women.
In the about us section of your website you said “We are a group of Muslim apostates, who have left Islam out of our own conviction…”
But most publishers’ names of articles here do not resemble Muslim names in any way. That is the point I am making here, can you prove any of your claims.
For example following 911 there were statistics published about Americans converting to Islam, the study stated that around 20,000 people are converting to Islam each year mostly women.
In the about us section of your website you said “We are a group of Muslim apostates, who have left Islam out of our own conviction…”
But most publishers’ names of articles here do not resemble Muslim names in any way. That is the point I am making here, can you prove any of your claims.
written by highlander , July 04, 2009
Isam, due to the dreaded apostasy laws in Islamic countries and the fear of being shunned by family and friends, many Muslims do not come out openly and declare their apostasy. Some who did learnt it the hard way. I believe there could be a large number of closet apostates. Again I can not guess on the figure.
You are not seeing the writing on the wall. It is going to be extremely difficult for Islam to survive this century .Following the 9/11 the world is taking a great interest in learning about Islam and they are being horrified with what they are learning. Another problem is that Islam can not be reformed.
You are not seeing the writing on the wall. It is going to be extremely difficult for Islam to survive this century .Following the 9/11 the world is taking a great interest in learning about Islam and they are being horrified with what they are learning. Another problem is that Islam can not be reformed.
written by kmgy , July 04, 2009
Some things exist that cannot be perceived by the human eye and their existence is NOT dependent on human visual perception.
written by Isam , July 04, 2009
Well taken point thanks highlander. Anyone can argue that if it was not for family and friends and because of laws that forbid apostasy people can not come out openly and change their faith. What about the Muslims in the West or even in the East.
Now on the other issue you have raised that Islam will not survive the century because it is being scrutinized I think you are simply being biased and only want to think what you wish for. Many people have got special interest in Islam after the 911 and many have converted to Islam because they found that Islam is not what the media portray it to be. We actually think that this century might bring relieve to Islam like the fall of the only super power remain. Many countries including western countries are preparing themselves for this. We also think that Israel will not be able to survive this century either.
I do not know what you mean when you say Islam can not be reformed, do you mean that we should allow alcohol and immoral values that conflict with Islam because it is the trend of our time. Islam is more fixable than other religions. That is in the west Christianity is suspended through the separation of church and state. Jewish law is so strict, you are not supposed to work on Saturday, Islam say you work when you want but take time to pray when it is time for prayer. Make as much money as you can but give 2.5% percent to charities and you can give that yourself to the poor and needy. I encourage you to learn about Islam from other sources as well. Muslims are not perfect, they are humans but Islam is.
Now on the other issue you have raised that Islam will not survive the century because it is being scrutinized I think you are simply being biased and only want to think what you wish for. Many people have got special interest in Islam after the 911 and many have converted to Islam because they found that Islam is not what the media portray it to be. We actually think that this century might bring relieve to Islam like the fall of the only super power remain. Many countries including western countries are preparing themselves for this. We also think that Israel will not be able to survive this century either.
I do not know what you mean when you say Islam can not be reformed, do you mean that we should allow alcohol and immoral values that conflict with Islam because it is the trend of our time. Islam is more fixable than other religions. That is in the west Christianity is suspended through the separation of church and state. Jewish law is so strict, you are not supposed to work on Saturday, Islam say you work when you want but take time to pray when it is time for prayer. Make as much money as you can but give 2.5% percent to charities and you can give that yourself to the poor and needy. I encourage you to learn about Islam from other sources as well. Muslims are not perfect, they are humans but Islam is.
written by Ex-muslim , July 04, 2009
Islam here is the statiseics from Al Jazeerah TV, your own source In Africa alone millions leaving islam:
http://gruene-pest.net/showthread.php?t=271254
I left islam but act as muslim to avoid persecution by nuts like you. I know many friends like me.
http://gruene-pest.net/showthread.php?t=271254
I left islam but act as muslim to avoid persecution by nuts like you. I know many friends like me.
written by Sunny , July 04, 2009
Islam why do you have to believe in a rapist pedophile killer as prophet and a ridiculous manual of hate and violence as divine book to avoid alcohol, be moral and make money? I know so many muslims who drink alcohol and womanize and so many non muslims who dont drink alcohol and dont womanize. Dont you know that most corrupt countries are islamic like Pakistan, Bangladesh,Nigeria Somalis etc. Besides some muslims may be moral , but how can islam be moral when quran allows slavery rape robbery (booty) and murder and Mohammed practised all that with abandon.
written by whatever , July 05, 2009
MA Khan,
it is true that Perhaps there is no God,
and true that the Kalima when Half way said can be interperated as atheist.
"There is No GOD" but Al and Mo is his Boy.
But when You know that Your forefathers were Buthchered and slaughtered for Islam and you still carry the burden of a islamic name.
What poor Grand Ancestor of yours would feel that the you carry the name of his tormentor.
That by it self is a Joke on Common Sense.
it is true that Perhaps there is no God,
and true that the Kalima when Half way said can be interperated as atheist.
"There is No GOD" but Al and Mo is his Boy.
But when You know that Your forefathers were Buthchered and slaughtered for Islam and you still carry the burden of a islamic name.
What poor Grand Ancestor of yours would feel that the you carry the name of his tormentor.
That by it self is a Joke on Common Sense.
written by M. A. Khan , July 05, 2009
But when You know that Your forefathers were Buthchered and slaughtered for Islam and you still carry the burden of a "Islamic name".
Hi whatever!
Why do you think, my name is a "Islamic name"? When and How Islam invented it to deserve a copyright or ownership of it?
written by whatever , July 06, 2009
Mr Khan,
The Title Khan was given to hide the shame when being forciblly converted to Islam.
It is a fact that the NWFP Hindoos took the title of Khans to safegurd their Heads from the sword of the Islamic Savages ravaging the NWFP.Preventing the rape of thier mothers and daughters.
Today it is these very Khans that are Destroying the remainder of their Hindoo/Buddhist Past by Blasting Ancient Cultural sites.
I can only feel pity when you are head strong stuck in the same tragedy that your forefathers went through.
Would Not have your forefathers rejected the Title of Khan.Now you have the opportunity to correct that mishap.
The Title Khan was given to hide the shame when being forciblly converted to Islam.
It is a fact that the NWFP Hindoos took the title of Khans to safegurd their Heads from the sword of the Islamic Savages ravaging the NWFP.Preventing the rape of thier mothers and daughters.
Today it is these very Khans that are Destroying the remainder of their Hindoo/Buddhist Past by Blasting Ancient Cultural sites.
I can only feel pity when you are head strong stuck in the same tragedy that your forefathers went through.
Would Not have your forefathers rejected the Title of Khan.Now you have the opportunity to correct that mishap.
written by a guest , July 06, 2009
Khan is probably a Mongolian name derived from Chengiz Khan and not islamic at all.
written by a guest , July 06, 2009
And Chengiz Khan was the greatest enemy of Islam, he razed many Islamic sultanates to the ground so don't think Chenghiz was a moslem.
written by M. A. Khan , July 06, 2009
You seem don't understand simple question. I ask you something, but blabber about some pet thoughts of yours.
My name has nothing to do with Islam. Islam did not invent anything than the Quran, hadith, or whatever in languages predated Islam. My name is part Parsian, part Arabic, part Mongol---all part of humanity's cultural acquisitions. As a member of humanity, I feel OK with any name. I will probably be as happy to have an African name (as any other), from where the human race spread. And I'm definitely not ready to let Islam illegally grab copyright of something it didn't create.
Please don't post any further comment on this issue not to distract the discussion.
My name has nothing to do with Islam. Islam did not invent anything than the Quran, hadith, or whatever in languages predated Islam. My name is part Parsian, part Arabic, part Mongol---all part of humanity's cultural acquisitions. As a member of humanity, I feel OK with any name. I will probably be as happy to have an African name (as any other), from where the human race spread. And I'm definitely not ready to let Islam illegally grab copyright of something it didn't create.
Please don't post any further comment on this issue not to distract the discussion.
written by a guest , July 06, 2009
"There are thousands of views in Hinduism, but I think Sum total of everything is God" What about atheism in hinduism? Doesn't that count as a view? The oldest texts of hinduism smartas begin with the premise that there is no god later on this got corrupted with other views. Nuts like you were the reason I stopped calling myself a Hindu. Its the presence moderates who give legitimacy to the nut cases who insist their view is the only right view.
written by a guest , July 06, 2009
"atheistic Nazism" A Christian whitewashing christianity. Nazism was not atheistic but Christian. http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/ba...aust1.html Don't get me started on christian atrocities if you want to learn whats common between christianity and islam read this page: http://www.shankaranarayanan.c...omparison/
written by a guest , July 06, 2009
You mean like flying spagheti monsters, unicorns, green stone eaters?
There are plenty of things that cannot be perceived by the human senses like radio waves but we have devices to detect them, so if a thing can't be detected by ANY means or ANY device it probably doesn't exist. Even if there is some thing that exists which can't be detected you can't prove there exists ONLY ONE thing and its this jehovah.
A blind man can insist that there is no color at all. But for him to insist there MUST be ONLY ONE color is ridiculous and points to an intension to persecute other blind people for their beliefs in a different color.
There are plenty of things that cannot be perceived by the human senses like radio waves but we have devices to detect them, so if a thing can't be detected by ANY means or ANY device it probably doesn't exist. Even if there is some thing that exists which can't be detected you can't prove there exists ONLY ONE thing and its this jehovah.
A blind man can insist that there is no color at all. But for him to insist there MUST be ONLY ONE color is ridiculous and points to an intension to persecute other blind people for their beliefs in a different color.
written by Highlander , July 06, 2009
The author writes `Islam is obviously softening down. This is the appropiate word to use if any. In due course of time Islam will be under tremendous pressure to soften its stance. This softening could be related to the laws of apostasy, burka, etc. Sorry. I am not talking about any reform movement here.
BTW there is no indications of any such softening taking place yet. Is there.
BTW there is no indications of any such softening taking place yet. Is there.
written by Highlander , July 06, 2009
"There are thousands of views in Hinduism, but I think Sum total of everything is God"
What about atheism in hinduism? Doesn't that count as a view? says anonyoumous
of course it does, Anonymous. May be be this nut case has never heard of the Charvakas.
What about atheism in hinduism? Doesn't that count as a view? says anonyoumous
of course it does, Anonymous. May be be this nut case has never heard of the Charvakas.
written by kmgy , July 06, 2009
--"A blind man can insist that there is no color at all. But for him to insist there MUST be ONLY ONE color is ridiculous and points to an intension to persecute other blind people for their beliefs in a different color." A very illogical argument. --"You mean like flying spagheti monsters, unicorns, green stone eaters?" A very vivid picture of an imagination gone wild. Nothing was ever mentioned with regards things unseen. Mr. Anonymous you are just displaying your highly biased mentality. Putting some words on other people's mouth. How about being an open-minded for a change?
written by kmgy , July 06, 2009
How about going into a Muslim neighborhood and condemn Islam then do likewise into a Christian neighborhood and condemn Christianity. Experience firsthand the difference. Hope you escape with your life in the first try. Give it a try and be a man.
written by Chris , July 06, 2009
Mr. Islam: I bet you did not marry a six year old, nor you ever killed a non muslim and had sex with his wife the same day, nor you cut the heads of 900 innocent jews, nor you married your daughter in law ,nor you have 9 wives nor you keep concubies and slaves, nor you wrote a very violent book demanding to kill innocent human beings based on their beliefs, because to you all that is immoral. But your prophet did all that and he was the one of the most immoral men who ever lived. How can you then claim to be his follower" Apparently you follow christ unknowingly, not Mohammed.
written by whatever , July 07, 2009
Mr Khan, why have you not published my last respose.
Editor: We have asked you not publish any further distracting comment on this topic.
Editor: We have asked you not publish any further distracting comment on this topic.
written by ShivaWorshipper , July 08, 2009
"There are thousands of views in Hinduism, but I think Sum total of everything is God"
What about atheism in Hinduism? Doesn't that count as a view?
Well If Universe is an Isolated System, then all thoughts of man are part of it, including Atheism. If energy can never be destroyed or created than your atheist thoughts are not accumulating anywhere outside, they are accumulating or transforming themselves inside only.
I don’t worry about Chakras or whatever, because I don’t necessary believe that being old is a litmus test for being correct. I use brain like a filter and wisdom says that I don’t need to filter things at the root, I just go through views of people from all sides, who have already spend their life filtering that view, it saves my time to gain perspective from other sides.
If you think Science can provide all the answers, most probably you will be disappointed at the end, because its based upon physical references and those references saturate at the point where Scientist called Singularity. But does that mean that the world view is complete, where scientist cannot gain any further knowledge.
The situation is like this, if you stand on a rock, you can see more horizon than standing on the beach. Your logical brain told you that you can see more horizon if you climb higher. So you build a light house, and keep adding more height to it, and with more height you can see bigger and bigger horizon but at some stage your ability to build higher is constrained with the limitations of physical laws . So what you want to conclude, Earth is as big as I can see from the tallest light house, which I can built. Or you want to conclude that earth may be bigger than the highest point I can built for myself.
When you cannot built higher than only way to gain more knowledge is develop wings and fly, true spirituality only starts when science of observation and comparison saturates.
If you are not happy with Hinduism than blame yourself not to work for your own view, thousands of views were provided to you, so that you could build your own view, its like parts of puzzle which is for anyone to solve. If a person is lazy and drink water from a dirty pond and than complain that water is a poison because he got diarrhoea due to that. Is complain about water correct or is the person responsible for his own state. He did not travelled any further to find any better quality water, he did not try to find a way to filter dirty water.
What about atheism in Hinduism? Doesn't that count as a view?
Well If Universe is an Isolated System, then all thoughts of man are part of it, including Atheism. If energy can never be destroyed or created than your atheist thoughts are not accumulating anywhere outside, they are accumulating or transforming themselves inside only.
I don’t worry about Chakras or whatever, because I don’t necessary believe that being old is a litmus test for being correct. I use brain like a filter and wisdom says that I don’t need to filter things at the root, I just go through views of people from all sides, who have already spend their life filtering that view, it saves my time to gain perspective from other sides.
If you think Science can provide all the answers, most probably you will be disappointed at the end, because its based upon physical references and those references saturate at the point where Scientist called Singularity. But does that mean that the world view is complete, where scientist cannot gain any further knowledge.
The situation is like this, if you stand on a rock, you can see more horizon than standing on the beach. Your logical brain told you that you can see more horizon if you climb higher. So you build a light house, and keep adding more height to it, and with more height you can see bigger and bigger horizon but at some stage your ability to build higher is constrained with the limitations of physical laws . So what you want to conclude, Earth is as big as I can see from the tallest light house, which I can built. Or you want to conclude that earth may be bigger than the highest point I can built for myself.
When you cannot built higher than only way to gain more knowledge is develop wings and fly, true spirituality only starts when science of observation and comparison saturates.
If you are not happy with Hinduism than blame yourself not to work for your own view, thousands of views were provided to you, so that you could build your own view, its like parts of puzzle which is for anyone to solve. If a person is lazy and drink water from a dirty pond and than complain that water is a poison because he got diarrhoea due to that. Is complain about water correct or is the person responsible for his own state. He did not travelled any further to find any better quality water, he did not try to find a way to filter dirty water.
written by lw1 , July 09, 2009
There are Inter-faith groups in Britain, where they all respect each others' religions.Your Quran does not allow this-you are meant to convert the non-believers.Will this be possible under Sharia law or are you going to reform Islam?
Can you name a few Muslim countries where such gatherings are possible?
Are the Muslims taking part in this good Muslims?
Can you name a few Muslim countries where such gatherings are possible?
Are the Muslims taking part in this good Muslims?
written by a guest , July 27, 2009
"A very illogical argument." Whats illogical about it? If you can argue for one god you can argue for a 100 gods or for 330 million gods. Where exactly is there proof that only one color or only one god exists?
"Some things exist that cannot be perceived by the human eye and their existence is NOT dependent on human visual perception." If you say your christian god exists even though it can't be perceived and is not dependent on human visual perception, then we can also say Zeus and Ganesha and FSM and unicorns exists even though it can't be perceived and is not dependent on human visual perception.
"Some things exist that cannot be perceived by the human eye and their existence is NOT dependent on human visual perception." If you say your christian god exists even though it can't be perceived and is not dependent on human visual perception, then we can also say Zeus and Ganesha and FSM and unicorns exists even though it can't be perceived and is not dependent on human visual perception.
written by a guest , July 27, 2009
Hinduism used to be an inclusive system, unlike other nutcase religions like christianity and islam it did not say this is a false hindu/true hindu. It included ALL points of views without saying this idea is not hinduism. But since now hindus have started saying this is hindu and this is not and have started excluding atheist, i am happy to drop the label hindu and happy with being an atheist alone instead of being a hindu atheist. Besides there is no such thing as hinduism, it is a western term to collectively label the religions of India.
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I sincerely believe there is a God, He is equal to all the living creature, be it humans, nature or animals we should love all of them as different colour of rainbow. He is truth, non violence and supreme law giver. further there is no faith it is called experience.Vedas say it is to be experienced through hard practice of astanga Yoga (Yoga is union with self, this process when the coiled sepent power which is kundalini lying dormant in every human being irrespective of caste creed nationality religion, is to be raised to the central point between eyes, this is called kuthastha, this is called shashradhar chakra or thousand petal lotus ). I have been researching the past history of india for long. this land alone was the land of Yogis,rishis and God realised seers. I dont even go to the age of krishna , but the last thousand years of history of India without biases Gives the answers of all questions. I have been practising yoga for 10 years, the higher spiritual truths which a human being / soul experienced during practice of Yoga is not shared /revealed to anybody except to be a worthy person.Neither it is mentioned in casual discussions
Britishers during their rule have encountered Great siddha yogis like Nityananda Bhagwan, swami sammarath, Sai baba and Gajanan Maharaj etc. I have read all experienes and myself have met such a siddha yogi. So i believe their is higher power you have to search for truth. As a hindu my journey has been very different no religious indoctrination this is great or that is great, i have always searched for truth and belived in it, even the general opinion may be against it. I do not force any thing on anybody we should live and let others to live without killing, ridiculing or proseletysing others.
As vedas say greater dharma is manav dhrama, so i belive in it. If today a fanatic will kill me if i do not worship His chosen God i will have no regrets, becos a killer in his ignorance doesnot know what is he doing.
Whether God or no god you must love all the living beings.I will never force my opinion on others, at the same time every human being should progess in education, science, and spreading peace on earth
I have a request to please analyse this website and document and post your analysis www.irf.net/islam_hinduism.doc
Whatever i have learned about islam is through you people.But many times i get confused, when people write good things.
Once in The Hindu , chennai edition one muslim writer wrote Aisha was 19 years of age when she got married to PBUH. He gave lot of evidence. But i remebered all your articles so i disregarded it.
Please tell what good things Islam tells about, God creation fellow beings etc.
Regards,