Just why I left Islam and why the Pakistani state should be dismantled...
Pakistan came into existence in 1947 on the basis of Islam and for Muslims. That was a wrong start, because a country should not be for any religion; it should be for the people living in it. It was also wrong in the sense that it is much better to live in a secular and democratic country like India than founding a country only for Muslims. Result of that foundation is clearly visible today—human sufferings, no democracy, no respect for human rights and so on.
Looking back to history, we know that Islam was spread using jihad and sword, and killing humans. As a result of Islamic jihad, the killings continue. Muslims, dreaming of reaching their fantasy paradise, continue trying to make this world hell. Such dreams are outcome of Muhammad and its followers. Pakistan, proudly claimed to be the only Muslim country founded in the name of Islam, has become a special attraction to jihadists of the world.
During the 1980s, Sharia laws were imposed in Pakistan. And at the receiving end of these laws were non-Muslims and non-believers, and even some Islamic sects. Thousands of people, who dared to think and criticize Islam, have been charged under this law. Every year many disappear even without any so-called trial.
After the temporary and semi fall of the Taliban in Afghanistan, Talibans have been very active in Pakistan, especially in northern areas like NWFP and Baluchistan. Present government of Pakistan is playing double: on one hand, under the pressure of the West, particularly the USA, the army is fighting the Talibans; at the same time, the same government has been and is providing free hands to them. As a result, the Talibans in the Swat Valley not only killed, slaughtered and hanged people, but also burned all Girls Schools. According to sharia law, woman were totally forbidden to leave homes alone and uncovered.
Today in Pakistan, there are thousands of Quran schools, the madrasas, which have been playing the key role in preparing suicide bombers and the Talibans. Links of these Quran schools have been identified to attacks in different parts of the world.
Women in Pakistan still lack the basic human rights. They are considered to be property of men, and reproduction machines.
In Pakistan, those like me, who don't believe in Islam, are not only are forbidden to think, speak and do different, but also live under constant threat of sharia law and death penalty. There is a total lack of freedom of expression in this country. Instead, there are inhuman laws like sharia to control people's thinking.
There are so-called 'modern Muslims' in Pakistan, but when it comes to the point of taking the side of freedom of speech, critical thought, human rights and secularism, they fail miserably and become tools to crack on those, who don't believe in Islam, think different and do different.
Today Pakistan has nuclear bombs; Pakistanis call them Islamic bombs. At the same time, the country is one of the lowest ranked in the World Development Reports, where people lack food, education, healthcare, justice and so on.
Because of such reasons, I not only left Islam, but also see it as part of the problem and is the cause of human sufferings in the country. Because of the very same reason, am against the Ideology of Pakistan. In the first place, it was wrong to divide India and establish a country only for Muslims, when India is a secular and democratic state, offering space for people of all faith.
I not only hate Islam but also believe that Pakistan, as a nation, should be dismantled, simply because a country should be for humans, for its citizenry, not for a religion and not especially for a barbaric religion like Islam.
Set as favorite
Bookmark
Email this
Hits: 1992
Comments (68)
Subscribe to this comment's feed
written by vbv , July 26, 2010
Good article. If Pakistan is dismantled islamic terrorism would definitely be subdued ,if not eliminated totally. Pakistan should be broken into Sindh,Punjab,Baluchistan and Pakhtoonistan. It will solve not only the islamic terror problem but also the ethnic tensions in Pakistan and also the big headache to India. What has Pakistan achieved since 1947? Only backwardness, spread of islamic intolerance and terrorism and a perenial source of headache to the international community.It lives on the alms thrown to it by the western powers ,especially the USA. Take away the alms , the economy cannot support its population,especially its military.It will degenerate into another Afghanistan ,which is in its present predicament largely due to the misadventures of Pakistan,the USA and its arab allies. These pakis have forgotten the common history and heritage of India of over 5,000 thousand years and suck up to the medevial muslim maraudering conquerors and the arabs. They are like a bastard child with no pride in its origin. If they recognize this heritage of theirs ,they will definitely be a better and saner and more civilised people. Unfortunately ,this will not be possible with the mad disease of islam and arab barbarity dominating their psyche. Only if islam is forsaken or diluted from arab stronghold to accommodate indegenous culture and thinking can there be any hope for these people ,who have no bright future,freedom of speech or conscience or democratic and secular values.
written by Abu Taleb , July 26, 2010
I suspect that every muslim country, or even muslim community is going backward, poorer, more uncivilized once they embrace the true Islam doctrin. A few countries may seem to be an exception such as Malaysia, but Malaysia may progress not because of Islam, but because of the non Islamic pratice. Without natural resources and/or help from western countries, no muslim country will survive, some countries may even go bankrupt eventhough they have huge natural resources.
Only the stupidity and greediness of the western countries make the muslim countries alive and able to oppress their own people.
Only the stupidity and greediness of the western countries make the muslim countries alive and able to oppress their own people.
written by Healer_999 , July 26, 2010
I wish you all the best.
I can only say that it is good that Pakistan was created.
As for dismantling of Pakistan, just take out hatred towards Hindus and India and you will have four different parts.
I can only say that it is good that Pakistan was created.
As for dismantling of Pakistan, just take out hatred towards Hindus and India and you will have four different parts.
written by insha allah , July 26, 2010
i would say that it was india's good fortunes that pakistan got separated. I mean, today, india's fate would be pretty much similar to that of pakistan if the partition would not have happened. incidents like godhra's train burning would have become a regular feature.
written by as an ex-muslim from infidel india,i say dismantle islam , July 26, 2010
as an ex-muslim from infidel india,i say dismantle islam
written by Ali , July 26, 2010
Maldives is supposed to be 100% muslim country but they have full democracy working well there. There are no intimidation of non muslims or any such activities found in Pakistan. Maldive people live in peace with others. This may be due to the country's Buddhist heritage. However because of some Maldivian people who got their religious indoctrination from Pakistan madrassas Maldives experience cases of intolerance and fundamentalism from such people. Even then these people are more tolerant than those in Pakistan. Pakistan has become truly a dangerous and frightening country. I believe Pakistan has no future as long as muslims in that country behave the way they are behaving now.
written by vbv , July 26, 2010
Dismember Pakistan into Sindh,Punjab,Baluchistan and Pakhtoonistan - all the problems wil be solved.The paki-punjabi and sindhi bastards are the worst lot - both stuffless but arrogant. They cannot fight India head-on militarily;so they export their barbarism and terrorism everywhere. Balkanise Pakistan - they will be busy fighting each other and be no bother to anyone in the world - these rabid ,amd bastards!
written by M.A. Khan , July 26, 2010
I thought Maldives has banned citizenship to kafirs. That puts Malidives ahead or behind of Pakistan in terms of intolerance---I'm not sure. But her Buddhist heritage is disappearing into oblivion; real Islam has started screeping in. Much more is going to happen over there. Just keep tuned.
written by Dr Radhasyam Brahmachari , July 26, 2010
The news given below reflects the true picture in Maldives
http://www.faithfreedom.org/fe...-himself/
It is compulsory for citizens of the Maldives to be Sunni Muslims A man in the Indian Ocean island state of the Maldives has died, apparently by suicide, after complaining of being victimised for not being a Muslim.Ismail Mohamed Didi, 25, had admitted being an atheist and had sought political asylum abroad.
He was found on Tuesday hanging at his workplace – the air traffic control tower at the international airport in the capital, Male.It is compulsory for citizens of the Maldives to be Sunni Muslims. Despite the rigidity of its religious laws, the Maldives was recently elected to the United Nations Human Rights Council.
A Maldivian website, Minivan News, printed what it said was a recent e-mail from Didi in which he said he was an atheist.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/fe...-himself/
It is compulsory for citizens of the Maldives to be Sunni Muslims A man in the Indian Ocean island state of the Maldives has died, apparently by suicide, after complaining of being victimised for not being a Muslim.Ismail Mohamed Didi, 25, had admitted being an atheist and had sought political asylum abroad.
He was found on Tuesday hanging at his workplace – the air traffic control tower at the international airport in the capital, Male.It is compulsory for citizens of the Maldives to be Sunni Muslims. Despite the rigidity of its religious laws, the Maldives was recently elected to the United Nations Human Rights Council.
A Maldivian website, Minivan News, printed what it said was a recent e-mail from Didi in which he said he was an atheist.
written by Dr Radhasyam Brahmachari , July 26, 2010
The November 30, 1998, edition of Time carries interviews with the Indian defence minister George Fernandes and the Pakistani nuclear scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan, which are worth mentioning in the present context. While commenting on the present Indo-Pak relation, Fernandes said, “I look at a Pakistani as the flesh of our flesh and the blood of our blood. We are two different nations but one people”. But in his reply to a similar question, Abdul Qadeer Khan said, “There are some similarities, but we are basically different. We are Muslims and they are Hindus. We eat cows. They worship cows. That we lived on the same land and spoke the same language does not make us the same people. While the comment of Frenandes reflects an attitude of tolerance, love and unification, friendship and peace, that of Khan reflects extremely harmful, sinister and secessionist Muslim psycho-profile. The above comment of Abdul Qadeer Khan also shows to what extent the faith in Islam can distort the thought process of even a highly educated scientist like him.
There is no doubt that this secessionist Muslim mindset has given birth to the “Two Nation Theory” that culminated in the division of this great ancient country into three pieces through fratricidal blood-bath and the bitterness thus generated is now proceeding towards a nuclear conclusion. And the history of the forthcoming days will have no other alternative than to accuse the said secessionist Islamist tendency for all these grave consequences. So it appears that, unless the Pakistanis mend their thought process, all the noble efforts of PIPFPD is destined to be confined to rhetoric alone without yielding anything in practice. So long as the doctrine of hatred continues to guide the people of Pakistan, a real friendship and amity between the people of these two nations would remain a mirage. That is the reason for which the Pakistani delegate Dr. Abdul Karim Naik quoted Upanishad and said that, only the message of the Upanishads are capable of removing discriminations among the human race created on the basis of religion and nationality. Only Upanishads consider the entire humanity as a family and every person living in this world as a member of the world family.
In the present context, it would be relevant to quote what the Pakistani journalist Zafar Adeem says in this regard. He writes, “We have never been able to understand that, if 50 years were not sufficient to make Pakistan fit for receiving a perfect Islamic system, then where was the need to create if at all? If the Islamic system cannot be enforced, then why not we go back to the original system, the united India? There is still a heart-warming and soul- stirring call from across the borders devoid of any sectarian heat. The great land of India is a wonderful gift of God, made fertile and creative by nature in every respect. It is a cradle of a variety of religions and beliefs and a shining example of unity in diversity which our Mumalkat-e-Khudadad lacks” (Organiser: 18.1.9
. A real friendship and amity between the people of Pakistan and India would be established only when the people of Pakistan gather under the banner of Zafar Adeem.
There is no doubt that this secessionist Muslim mindset has given birth to the “Two Nation Theory” that culminated in the division of this great ancient country into three pieces through fratricidal blood-bath and the bitterness thus generated is now proceeding towards a nuclear conclusion. And the history of the forthcoming days will have no other alternative than to accuse the said secessionist Islamist tendency for all these grave consequences. So it appears that, unless the Pakistanis mend their thought process, all the noble efforts of PIPFPD is destined to be confined to rhetoric alone without yielding anything in practice. So long as the doctrine of hatred continues to guide the people of Pakistan, a real friendship and amity between the people of these two nations would remain a mirage. That is the reason for which the Pakistani delegate Dr. Abdul Karim Naik quoted Upanishad and said that, only the message of the Upanishads are capable of removing discriminations among the human race created on the basis of religion and nationality. Only Upanishads consider the entire humanity as a family and every person living in this world as a member of the world family.
In the present context, it would be relevant to quote what the Pakistani journalist Zafar Adeem says in this regard. He writes, “We have never been able to understand that, if 50 years were not sufficient to make Pakistan fit for receiving a perfect Islamic system, then where was the need to create if at all? If the Islamic system cannot be enforced, then why not we go back to the original system, the united India? There is still a heart-warming and soul- stirring call from across the borders devoid of any sectarian heat. The great land of India is a wonderful gift of God, made fertile and creative by nature in every respect. It is a cradle of a variety of religions and beliefs and a shining example of unity in diversity which our Mumalkat-e-Khudadad lacks” (Organiser: 18.1.9
. A real friendship and amity between the people of Pakistan and India would be established only when the people of Pakistan gather under the banner of Zafar Adeem. written by waterwillows , July 26, 2010
As far as I know, only a blithering idiot would have a heart-warming or soul-stirring call for Islam to come. Mind you the perverts and degenerates may feel entirely different about the matter, as Islam does appeal to the darker side of humans.
The above post reminds me of the silly song "Tiptoe thru the Tulips". One should be better grounded to reality if one uses the title doctor.
But then on this blog, one can call oneself anything.
The above post reminds me of the silly song "Tiptoe thru the Tulips". One should be better grounded to reality if one uses the title doctor.
But then on this blog, one can call oneself anything.
written by Syeda Nureen , July 26, 2010
I am a Pakistani and I believe Jinnah who was born and raised as an INDIAN did blunder in 1947 to please his English masters. Jinnah went to hell in 1948 and left this stigma on the face of earth. Today we Pakistanis are suffering because of Jinnah's wrong doings. On top of that all muslims are suffering worldwide because of Muhammad's evil deeds.
Jinnah was a traitor to his motherland India.May true God (not allah) punish him for ever. The line of hatrage which was drawn on August 14,1947 doesnt make us a different nation. We Pakistanis are HINDU race people. Our ancestors uttered Arabic Kalama in order to save their necks from Arab terrorist invador Muhammad Bin Qasim. We're not Arabs. We're Hindu race people.Shame on Arabs and their cult Islam.Indiapakistan ZINDABAAD.
Jinnah was a traitor to his motherland India.May true God (not allah) punish him for ever. The line of hatrage which was drawn on August 14,1947 doesnt make us a different nation. We Pakistanis are HINDU race people. Our ancestors uttered Arabic Kalama in order to save their necks from Arab terrorist invador Muhammad Bin Qasim. We're not Arabs. We're Hindu race people.Shame on Arabs and their cult Islam.Indiapakistan ZINDABAAD.
written by Scrutator , July 26, 2010
Syeda Nureen,
I fully endorse what you've written above.
Regarding Pakistan, you and others might be interested to read what I've written in another forum, I reproduce that underneath:
...................................................................................................
The real reason Pakistanis abuse, denigrate and talk against everything about India is the following set of figures:
PAKISTAN
Exports $21.09bn(200
, $17.87bn(2009)
Imports $38.19bn(200, $28.39bn(2009)
INDIA
Exports $200.9bn(200 $165bn(2009)
Imports $322.3bn(200 $253.9bn(2009)
To rub salt to injury, Pakistan’s all-weather and steadfast friend China had the following trade figures with India in 2009:
Indian exports to China: $ 9bn
Indian imports from China: $ 27.5bn
In other words, Indian exports to China were more than half of Pakistan’s worldwide exports, while Indian imports from China alone nearly equaled Pakistan worldwide imports !
..........from www.economywatch.com
Given these figures, is it a surprise Pakistan is constantly barking against India on almost everything, including religion, women & military strength ?
Their inner wound should be understood; a constant state of despair, hopelessness and an unwinnable position on ever coming anywhere near India !
Not so long ago on Geo TV, a Pakistani intellectual lamented “What have we got for crying ourselves hoarse on Kashmir for the last 60 years ?”
This last comment just about aptly sums up the hopeless situation Pakistan and Pakistanis find themselves in.
I fully endorse what you've written above.
Regarding Pakistan, you and others might be interested to read what I've written in another forum, I reproduce that underneath:
...................................................................................................
The real reason Pakistanis abuse, denigrate and talk against everything about India is the following set of figures:
PAKISTAN
Exports $21.09bn(200
, $17.87bn(2009) Imports $38.19bn(200
, $28.39bn(2009) INDIA
Exports $200.9bn(200
$165bn(2009) Imports $322.3bn(200
$253.9bn(2009) To rub salt to injury, Pakistan’s all-weather and steadfast friend China had the following trade figures with India in 2009:
Indian exports to China: $ 9bn
Indian imports from China: $ 27.5bn
In other words, Indian exports to China were more than half of Pakistan’s worldwide exports, while Indian imports from China alone nearly equaled Pakistan worldwide imports !
..........from www.economywatch.com
Given these figures, is it a surprise Pakistan is constantly barking against India on almost everything, including religion, women & military strength ?
Their inner wound should be understood; a constant state of despair, hopelessness and an unwinnable position on ever coming anywhere near India !
Not so long ago on Geo TV, a Pakistani intellectual lamented “What have we got for crying ourselves hoarse on Kashmir for the last 60 years ?”
This last comment just about aptly sums up the hopeless situation Pakistan and Pakistanis find themselves in.
written by Syeda Nureen , July 26, 2010
Thank you Scrutator.
Pakistan is 63 year old on August 14,2010. So do India. Can any Pakistani dare to tell me with honesty what we have achieved in 63 years? Nothing but terrorism. On the other hand India has become a shining star on globe.
Pakistan Army and its wing ISI are busy manufacturing and exporting terrorism.Thats all they do
for living. Pak Army don't want Kashmir dispute to be resolved. If it resloved today, they will be unemployed. All the money we get from US,EU and Saudi Wahabis go to (Na)pak Army to wage Jihad against Kahmiris,Baluchs,Sindhis or any Pakistani who dare to speak the truth. I am sure there are Pakistanis who may label me '' Hindu Agent'' just because I speak the truth. Pakistan and Pakistanis have ruined into rubbles. They lost their rich heritage. They used to be tolerent Hindu,now they are proud puppets of Arabs.This is so ironic,when we Pakistanis go to Mecca,these Arab masters degrade us by calling name ''Al-Hindi-al-masakeen'', meaning The Lowest Indians.
And we Pakistanis are so shameless,that we keep uttering their Arbic Kalima day and night.Can any one could be this BAY GHAIRAT (without any honour)? Yes we Pakistanis have no dignity no honour no value.We are lost in a jungle of terrorism. There is no way to return, We are uprooted from our heritage and values. We have no identity. We have no present no future.
Pakistan is 63 year old on August 14,2010. So do India. Can any Pakistani dare to tell me with honesty what we have achieved in 63 years? Nothing but terrorism. On the other hand India has become a shining star on globe.
Pakistan Army and its wing ISI are busy manufacturing and exporting terrorism.Thats all they do
for living. Pak Army don't want Kashmir dispute to be resolved. If it resloved today, they will be unemployed. All the money we get from US,EU and Saudi Wahabis go to (Na)pak Army to wage Jihad against Kahmiris,Baluchs,Sindhis or any Pakistani who dare to speak the truth. I am sure there are Pakistanis who may label me '' Hindu Agent'' just because I speak the truth. Pakistan and Pakistanis have ruined into rubbles. They lost their rich heritage. They used to be tolerent Hindu,now they are proud puppets of Arabs.This is so ironic,when we Pakistanis go to Mecca,these Arab masters degrade us by calling name ''Al-Hindi-al-masakeen'', meaning The Lowest Indians.
And we Pakistanis are so shameless,that we keep uttering their Arbic Kalima day and night.Can any one could be this BAY GHAIRAT (without any honour)? Yes we Pakistanis have no dignity no honour no value.We are lost in a jungle of terrorism. There is no way to return, We are uprooted from our heritage and values. We have no identity. We have no present no future.
written by waterwillows , July 27, 2010
"Their inner wound should be understood"
They have given up much in order to be slave owners. The desire for sex slaves was and still is, their undoing. The Hindu of their ancestors is no more. Today they are fully possessed by Islam and subject to all its curses.
I feel for you as a thinking peson, but you are chasing the wind. Islam needs to be destroyed.
They have given up much in order to be slave owners. The desire for sex slaves was and still is, their undoing. The Hindu of their ancestors is no more. Today they are fully possessed by Islam and subject to all its curses.
I feel for you as a thinking peson, but you are chasing the wind. Islam needs to be destroyed.
written by Ajay , July 27, 2010
The Maldives is the perfect example of Islamic bigotry. They stripped the citizenship of everyone who was not Muslim. And that is just the beginning. Boycott the hateful bigoted Muslim Maldives.
1. Articvle 9d states that “a non-muslim may not become a citizen of the Maldives.”
2. "“The People's Majilis ( Parliament) of the Maldives has been debating a bill to ban non-muslim places of worship. The bill, proposed by Ibrahim Muttalib MP, would make it illegal to build non-muslim places of worship or to PRACTICE NON MUSLIM FAITHS IN PUBLIC. Punishment proposed is a jail term for three to five years or a fine between US$2,800 and US$4,700.”
3. "President Mohamed Nasheed has said before ratifying the bill he will seek advice from Islamic scholars. Sharia law apparently allows for Jews and Christians to keep their places of worship but not build new ones.
Hindus are 'pagans' and not even allowed to keep existing places of worship."
http://www.islammonitor.org/in...&Itemid=67
1. Articvle 9d states that “a non-muslim may not become a citizen of the Maldives.”
2. "“The People's Majilis ( Parliament) of the Maldives has been debating a bill to ban non-muslim places of worship. The bill, proposed by Ibrahim Muttalib MP, would make it illegal to build non-muslim places of worship or to PRACTICE NON MUSLIM FAITHS IN PUBLIC. Punishment proposed is a jail term for three to five years or a fine between US$2,800 and US$4,700.”
3. "President Mohamed Nasheed has said before ratifying the bill he will seek advice from Islamic scholars. Sharia law apparently allows for Jews and Christians to keep their places of worship but not build new ones.
Hindus are 'pagans' and not even allowed to keep existing places of worship."
http://www.islammonitor.org/in...&Itemid=67
written by mirzaghalib , July 27, 2010
Dear Khalid
I am happy to see one more of my fellow brethren have broken the shackles of barbarian cult. Congratulations.
Partition of India is a grave mistake committed by Mohammad Ali Jinna , which the history will not forgive him. Its sounds good to hear from the Pakistani muslims about the stupid mistake committed by their forefathers in support of Jinna.
Don’t think the Pakistanis alone, whether they are muslims, Sikhs, Hindus or Christions, have paid the price due to the partition of India. We as an Indians too paid a lot. Though I hate Islam, I cant deny the fact that, Islam gave birth to a beautiful language URDU, which is the mix Turkish, Arabic, Persian and Hindi.
Due to this partition in 1947, Urdu the mother tongue of mine as well as most of then Indians, was mercilessly eradicated in India by its new rulers, from their official dealings, schools and wherever it appears, only because it was the language of the Ex-rulers, the muslims.
In 1966 my parents admitted me in Tamil medium school, fearing that, I wont get a job if I study in URDU school, tough the Urdu school was very near to my house. This had been the policy of the Indian government, due to which the statistics of Urdu schools are reduced to almost nil in my state and also throughout India.
These all occurred because the Indian government considered Urdu as religious language. To make peace and harmony in this world, the mentality of all religious people must change.
This is my pain, which I felt lighter after sharing with you.
Mirza Ghalib
written by as an ex-muslim from infidel india,i say dismantle islam , July 27, 2010
as an ex-muslim from infidel india,i say dismantle islam.but dont make the mistake of loving hateful
pakistanis,who may claim to be ex-muslim but maybe suicide bombers.
what proof we have that the pakistanis who claim to be ex-muslim r really ex-muslims ?
maybe they r doing this to penetrate indian or rather human society and then do the
suicide bombs or whatever...i think the noly way a pakistani muslim can become an
ex-muslim is to sing : vande mataram [ hail to the motherland ] IN SANSKRIT.
IF HE CANT SING ENTIRE VANDE MATARAM...atleast just say VANDE MATARAM
maybe they can consider pakistan as their motherland,but as an ex-msulim from india
who has seen how hateful muslims are,and even today indian muslims are just
as hateful as pakis....i will never trust a pakistani ex-muslim till he sings : vande mataram
or even says : vande mataram
by saying vande mataram,2 things r done,he stops being a muslim,and starts
becoming a human and will eventually embrace his infidel indian heritage.
maybe they can join india,or can be in pakistan or return to hinduism
whatever,but after they sing cvande mataram,they can truly call themself
ex-muslim.
i started going to sanskrit classes since last 2 years and now can read
and understand the divine holy language and will say : SANSKRIT is the
most perfect language in the whole world,and only free thinkers infidels can
create this language.the sybntax,grammer and pronounciations and script
is much superior to english urdu etc...
having read some upanishad and some books i really yearn to learn more
abt my true indian heritage.i have cast off arab-slavery-islam in 1992,and now even names
my children indian names.
jai kuffar hind
vande kuffar bharat mataram
written by ISLAM IS WORLD PUREST RELIGION....PUREST PIGSHIT , July 27, 2010
ISLAM IS WORLD PUREST RELIGION....PUREST PIGSHIT
written by Peace on earth , July 27, 2010
Let the Muslims in Pakistan kill each other.
Pakistan just declared war on India inteding to kill non-Muslims. The non-Muslims should start killing their Muslim neighbours. Just kill them.
Pakistan just declared war on India inteding to kill non-Muslims. The non-Muslims should start killing their Muslim neighbours. Just kill them.
written by what , July 27, 2010
Three incidents in three in months in maldives.
http://www.examiner.com/x-8947-LA-Atheism-Examiner~y2010m7d26-Journalist-accused-of-atheism-arrested-in-Maldives
http://www.examiner.com/x-8947-LA-Atheism-Examiner~y2010m7d26-Journalist-accused-of-atheism-arrested-in-Maldives
written by Ajay , July 27, 2010
Khalid, Please read Sujit Das's "Unmasking Mohammed" http://www.islam-watch.org/Suj...hammad.pdf
written by Tanstaafl JW , July 27, 2010
All Pakistanis are Hindus. Their ancestors were converted to Islam by the sword.
written by proudest kafir , July 28, 2010
The title is wrong! it should be pakisthan is islam! Islam means pakisthan and pakisthan means islam.No difference.Violent,cruel, barbaric, stupid,idiotic, bereft of huamnity, child screwing, wife beating, kafir killing, sex now, sex afterwards and sex all the time! That's islam and that's is porkistahn.
written by Ephram , July 28, 2010
Stopping islam? Islamic terrorism? What the hell are you talking about?
Every article here is full of racism and hatred. This website is so full of israeli propaganda, it easily finds its young and dumb readers, who have never even been to the middle east.
So you say that all terrorists are muslims? Read this study, by official FBI origin, which claims that more jews commit terrorist attacks in the US than radical muslims.
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/
The human stupidity is everlasting.
Every article here is full of racism and hatred. This website is so full of israeli propaganda, it easily finds its young and dumb readers, who have never even been to the middle east.
So you say that all terrorists are muslims? Read this study, by official FBI origin, which claims that more jews commit terrorist attacks in the US than radical muslims.
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/
The human stupidity is everlasting.
written by waterwillows , July 28, 2010
Ephram,
You are wasting your time here calling upon the over-used word racism. It is a well-known and favorite trick used by muslims, hoping to gain control. That accusation is for the weak willed, lily-livered, political leaders who live in fear of the word.
We don't fear your false accusations.
Also, your second, over-used trick; always, but always try to put the blame on someone else, is a complete dead bore. Can't think...of anything new?
Or just maybe, you just can't owe up the the life of taking responsible understanding that your organization is convicted of much evil in the world?
Scream racism....blame another.....so typically Islam.
You are wasting your time here calling upon the over-used word racism. It is a well-known and favorite trick used by muslims, hoping to gain control. That accusation is for the weak willed, lily-livered, political leaders who live in fear of the word.
We don't fear your false accusations.
Also, your second, over-used trick; always, but always try to put the blame on someone else, is a complete dead bore. Can't think...of anything new?
Or just maybe, you just can't owe up the the life of taking responsible understanding that your organization is convicted of much evil in the world?
Scream racism....blame another.....so typically Islam.
written by duh- swami , July 28, 2010
Ephram gives loonwatch for a link, that pretty much explains Ephram...
My advice, don't go to loonwatch...If you do, wear a plastic suit and make sure your virus program is working...Loonwatch has bugs that jump...Look what they did to Ephram...Yes indeed, if you frequent loonwatch, you can become just like Ephram...A loonar-tick...
written by what , July 28, 2010
The dhimmi politicians in neighboring Andhra Pradesh made Urdu is second official language after Telugu. That means every government property(buildings, buses, trains etc) name will be written in this urdu. When muslims are destroying hindu temples and culture everywhere the Indian politicians licking the boots of these vultures.
written by ALLA Tappa , July 28, 2010
Obviously you donot know the complete history and background ,truth about INDIA. Urdu is not only taught in several places, schools,colleges,universities in INDIA , right now. Mirza ghalib closed his eyes . find out truth. there is a university for URDU which is run by central Govt.,urdu news papers, urdu schools and urdu colleges. But any in my personal opinion URDU cannot get priority over other languages - as every state has it's own language to be encouraged ,protected.There is no need for URDU, eventhough , URDU can be considered as INDIAN language. URDU is mostly HINDUSTANI - Hindi language written in persian script with a smattering of words from arabic and may be turkic. If you know hindi - you will be able to understand URDU. HOW MANY languages do you want to impose on INDIANS - MIRZA GHALIB? Already students in INDIA has to learn at least 3 languages !!!!!!!!!!!!! Why do you need URDU ? It was imposed . But each state has it's own language, to be studied, to protect . For example ,why do you want to impose URDU in TAMILANDADU or ANDHRA or any other state. Your ancestors were TAMILS - and TAMIL is fully developed language much better than URDU. Are you not a loyal citizen of TAMILNADU ?How many languages can a state have ? Mirza Ghalib is still deeply filled with animosity towards indian languages - this time on language basis , not on religious basis . Tamil is thousands of years old language. Just because foreigners invaded (Moslems) your lans,conquered, imposed, ruled,enslaved you does not mean you should keep on promoting their slavery acts. With English, - fortunately or unfortunately, it has become international language and became essential part to get a good job. AS such many indian languages or languishing or disappearing under the weight of ENGLISH . ALL the rulers of states are doing great injustice by not promoting their own language. URDU really does not fit in this equation. More over URDU is not such a beautiful language - as you claim - theidea was/is promoted by some URDU knowing HINDUS and moslems . Just like their religion ISLAM - Moslems claim that URDU is beautiful language !!!! regardless of facts,truth. Actually INDIAN Govt - for vote bank politics , is giving too much promotion to URDU . Your claims are totally wrong, because as a moslem you are never objective , but highly biased towards your religion.
written by Syeda Nureen , July 28, 2010
Pakistan is not Islam. Islam is not Pakistan. Pakistan was India till August 14,1947. Islam is a hate ideaology made by a Jahil Arabic Badu Muhammad in seventh century. Unfortunately that hate ideaology has bad influence on our mother land.
Crticising islam is not racism. Islam is not a race. Arab is the race.
Crticising islam is not racism. Islam is not a race. Arab is the race.
written by Neo-ritz , July 28, 2010
Mirza ghalib, you don't have any idea what are you talking about each Indian university offers a course in Urdu and if you are willing you may join and learn it but truth is that no one in India want ot learn URDU, because it is not Indian languae rather corruption of Parsi, in Delhi you will see signboards written in Urdu and a official language along with Hiundi, English and Punjabi.
written by Scrutator , July 28, 2010
It is instructive to read what the Nobel Laureate author and the finest English writer today V.S. Naipaul (Sir Vidiadhar Surajprasad Naipaul) has to say on Pakistan and Islam. He is the author of two eminently readable books on four non-Arab muslim countries, "Among The Believers" and "Beyond Belief: An Excursion Into The Converted Peoples".
Islam, he said, had both enslaved and attempted to wipe out other cultures."It has had a calamitous effect on converted peoples. To be converted you have to destroy your past, destroy your history. You have to stamp on it, you have to say 'my ancestral culture does not exist, it doesn't matter'."
Sir Vidia described what he called "this abolition of the self demanded by Muslims was worse than the similar colonial abolition of identity. It is much, much worse in fact... You cannot just say you came out of nothing."
He observed that Pakistan was the living proof of the damage Islam could wreak.
"The story of Pakistan is a terror story actually. It started with a poet who thought that Muslims were so highly evolved that they should have a special place in India for themselves.
"This wish to sift countries of unnecessary and irrelevant populations is terrible and this is exactly what happened in Pakistan."
(from The Guardian, Thursday 4 October 2001)
Naipaul quotes Salman, a well known Pakistani journalist:
"We have nearly all, subcontinental Muslims, invented Arab ancestors for ourselves. Most of us are Sayeds, descendants of Mohammed through his daughter Fatima and cousin and son-in-law Ali. There are others--like my family--who have invented a man called Salim al-Rai. And yet others who have invented a man called Qutub Shah. Everybody has got an ancestor who came from Arabia or Central Asia. I am convinced my ancestors would have been medium to low-caste Hindus, and despite their conversion they would not have been in the mainstream of Muslims.
Naipaul observed, “Islam is in its origin an Arab religion. Everyone not an Arab who is a Muslim is a convert. Islam is not simply a matter of conscience or private belief. It makes imperial demands. A convert’s worldview alters. His holy places are in Arab lands. His sacred language is Arabic. His idea of history alters. He rejects his own: he becomes, whether he likes it or not, a part of the Arab story. The convert has to turn away from everything that is his. The disturbance for societies is immense and even after a thousand years can remain unresolved; the turning away has to be done again and again. People develop fantasies about who and what they are; and in the Islam of converted countries there is an element of neurosis and nihilism. These countries can be easily set on the boil”.
Part of this neurosis of the convert is that he always has to prove himself. He has to be more royalist than the king, as the French say.
written by ALLA Tappa , July 28, 2010
You can test this by your self. As a human being with kind heart,accepting all humans as devine, all creatures are well worth of your respect,your worship, you want to be truthful,honest,kind hearted,compassionate,with pure conscience ,you want to respect women,children and every creature on earth, you allow equal space, equal rights to all human beings, you promote,democracy,freedom,peace, equality , equal laws, equality to all religions,ypu promote nonviolence, vegetarianism - this is in a nutshell an ideal person wants to live on this earth.You study &know the basic philosophy,principles,values,ethos, of religions,countries,societies . Constitution of each country,laws,rules of each country, traditions,culture of each country then evaluate yourself- No sooner you will discover - that ISLAM is the worst & demonic religion on this earth, filled with hatred,contempt,animosity,ill will for all nonmoslems. You will also find that ISLAMIC countries are the worst offenders ,evil,cruel societies ,countries, who built resevoirs of hatred, ill will,constant hostility, against nonmoslems. No humanbeing worth the salt wants to live in a moslem country ,no good human being who wants to be spiritual,kind,compassionate, truthful,honest ,freedom,peace ,democracy ,equality loving individual will ask for ISLAM . ISLAM is incompatible with all th ebest human values. IN one word ISLAM=DARKNESS&cruelty.
written by ALLA Tappa , July 28, 2010
DO any one see how ISLAM is celebrated by moslems ? In their so called festival - they break the head of even children- consequently their faces dripping with blood aand all over- they beat themselves with chains -(what a Bizaar game they play) !!!! during Eid they cut the throats of millions of animals ,with alacrity,glee ( ALLA is such an abominable creature without mercy ) , with the result that blood flows on the streets , smell of blood all over !!!! One can easily see why ISLAM celebtrate death - not life. MO claimed in QQURRAN that he became victorious with terror !!!!! These are the basic traditions of ISLAM - discrimination against nonmoslems- Go to any moslem country. read their rules,laws - you will find that MOSLEMS are given,conferred with special privileges,superior under ISLAMIC rule, nonmoslems are treated as slaves ,inferior to MOSLEMS. ISLAM violates all human values,human rights in a whole sale way . Now the question is can good human being wants to be a moslem with pure ,honest,truthful conscience ? Moslems are such demons- they will say yes (like OSAMA BIN LADEN ).
written by ALLA Tappa , July 28, 2010
Without doubt what you posted is all untrue,no basis. In erstwhile HYDERABAD state ,ruled by a MOslem ruler imposed URDU on 98% nonURDU speaking people. ISLAM - itself is not an INDIAN religion - entered INDIA as a marauding,murderous,invading,with death,destruction of unimaginable intensity. You want apart from religion, language also must be imposed on indigenous people. URDU was developed but imposed on people during Moslem rule. It was never a natural process. URDU is HINDUSTANI - HINDI language ,written in persian script. In INDIA there are hundreds of languages - several of them are not promoted. But URDU is promoted for moslem appeasement. Your entire posting on URDU is untrue.check your facts . How much indian Govt and rulers are doing to promote SANSKRIT - the world s oldest language known to mankind ? It is a proven fact that all most all the world languages are derived from SANSKRIT . You ask linguists. How much INDIAN Govt is doing to encourage,promote SANSKRIT ? Nothing. ZERO. Also note that all INDIAN LANGUAGES are very heavy to heavy in content with SANSKRIT vocabulary . It is also a known fact that SANSKRIT is the perfect language for even science and artificial intelligence. This fact is acknowledged by NASA of USA. For your information- there are arabic colleges in INDIA, not only URDU colleges . There is a danger that by unnecessirily and artificially promoting URDU- the Govt will encourage,separateness ,and division demands from moslems again !!!!! Lot of INDIAN moslems are not loyal to INDIA or their own language - like TAMIL,Telugu,malayalam,kannada or bengali etc. INDIAN Govt is neglecting several INDIAN languages but actively promoting URDU. This is harmful. SANSKRIT is totally neglected.
written by Jay , July 28, 2010
Lon Watch is a CAIR front site and the evil Brotherhood often links many of that sites to their own online site. It is no different from any other Muslim hate site. It spews the CAIR talking points. Though they write about people like Spencer by name and place his picture up, all of those bloggers attack Spencer behind pseudo names. Their credentials on Islam are unknown yet they constantly call their readers to question knowledge of people like Spencer's, whom at least we can check what is his back ground is on Islam. Hypocrits. It would not surprise me if it were staff from CAIR behind that site behind those pseudo names. Their attacks on Spencer are very personal. Spencer probably called them out personally on his site and they now attack him under cover.
As for that FBI report - there are lies, damn lies , and then there are statistics. Jew hating is popular on Muslim hate sites like loon watche. And you notice Ephraim brought up Jews on his post as well of all the terrorists attacks talked about in the FBI report - he focused on Jews. What you will see on that FBI report is that it covers a couple of decades, and considers attacks by say animal rights activists on labs to be terrorism too. So who is targeted by a group is different. Muslims target EVERYONE so the risk to the entire general population is greater. The general population is not at risk of radical environmentalist for instance. If you cover the last 200 years of terrorism in the US the number committed by Muslims would be small, if you look at current situation the risk of attack by Muslims is very high. Those Jewish acts of terrorism were many years ago. Law enforcement has been able to prevent many attacks, which the FBI report may not include. At the end of the day, the inconvenient truth is that it ain't Jews or animal lovers leaving a truck bomb in Times Square, or blowing up planes or crashing planes into buildings or driving car bombs into buildings (WTC '93) or trying to blow up a tunnel, or the UN. It is Muslims going a jihading, blowing up trains or buses or buildings in THIS decade, and targeting everyone.
As for that FBI report - there are lies, damn lies , and then there are statistics. Jew hating is popular on Muslim hate sites like loon watche. And you notice Ephraim brought up Jews on his post as well of all the terrorists attacks talked about in the FBI report - he focused on Jews. What you will see on that FBI report is that it covers a couple of decades, and considers attacks by say animal rights activists on labs to be terrorism too. So who is targeted by a group is different. Muslims target EVERYONE so the risk to the entire general population is greater. The general population is not at risk of radical environmentalist for instance. If you cover the last 200 years of terrorism in the US the number committed by Muslims would be small, if you look at current situation the risk of attack by Muslims is very high. Those Jewish acts of terrorism were many years ago. Law enforcement has been able to prevent many attacks, which the FBI report may not include. At the end of the day, the inconvenient truth is that it ain't Jews or animal lovers leaving a truck bomb in Times Square, or blowing up planes or crashing planes into buildings or driving car bombs into buildings (WTC '93) or trying to blow up a tunnel, or the UN. It is Muslims going a jihading, blowing up trains or buses or buildings in THIS decade, and targeting everyone.
written by proudest kafir , July 29, 2010
induced backwardness and utter poverty, illiteracy and incompetency is, surprise surprise, more islam! That is right.Ask any moslem and he will say the problems in islamic countries is not because of the evil islam, but because people have strayed away from islam and prophet's way ( of raping and looting? ) which I thought they were doing very piously. SO more ilsam. this islamically induced anal fissure has to be dealt with.How ? That is the only question.
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , July 30, 2010
It was a good article, and I enjoyed reading it. whatever you said about Pakistan, thats all correct, because I am also Pakistani an ex-Muslim and I left Islam about 4 years ago. Not only I left Islam but also left that nasty and hatred country Pakistan, last year. I can understand your pain and feelings and I wish you to get out of that country as soon as possible. I know that today all Pakistanis trying to leave their homeland for the betterment of their future, but they are not willing to leave Islam, which is the basic cause of all problems; i agree with you. I know how much it is hard for a Paki citizen to get a visa to western countries.
I congratulate you daring to leave Islam being living in a so-called Muslim state and welcome you to Humanity.
wish you best of luck
Mohammad.A.Khan
I congratulate you daring to leave Islam being living in a so-called Muslim state and welcome you to Humanity.
wish you best of luck
Mohammad.A.Khan
written by xTian , July 30, 2010
Yep, Islam is really a problem and menace as we can say, in the Philippines particularly the southern part and Mindanao development and progress is like a snail. They wanted to have a separate state and partition the tiny Philippines. LOL. Maybe to interbreed and when the hunger fangs strikes, terrorize the christians who live peacefully, burned their houses, behead a passersby and the likes.... When they are selling on the street and touch an item and you didn't by it you would die from knife stab. Sometimes I cannot help myself to think that it's time to give a dose of their on medicine because they don't know love, consideration they are just simply selfish or much more than a snake. I'm fed up with them. If only i just have a nuke, I would nuke the island to get rid of them.
written by Yorkshire Miner , July 30, 2010
I am reminded of the comment of one of my British Prime Ministers Harold Macmillan who when asked what we should do about Africa suggested that we should build a wall around the place and take a brick out ever 100 year to see how it is getting along. Pakistan and Afghanistan are ripe for this solution.
written by ALLA Tappa , July 30, 2010
You are a brave individual equipped with inquisitive mind ,rational ,analytical. Essentially you have a good heart and healthy mind ( not sick mind infused by ISLAM ),Which made you to think. You want to be a good human being,truthful,honest,kind,compassionate,you want to treat all human beings with respect,you want to be a good citizen, you want to be nonviolent, you want to accept all human beings , you want to accept all beliefs as worthy of respect,you want to show your love to all human beings ,you want to serve all , you want to be kind and compassionate ,you want to be all inclusive , you want to contribute positively - you want freedom,you want peace, you want equality ,democracy,gender equality - these are the values you want to live by and in later life look back and be accountable by living those values . This kind of thinking,living , or spirituality is not possible in ISLAM. Your human values made you to think and goaded you to leave ISLAM. This is what happened. Every Moslem in PAKISATAN must follow your example , think,analyze, to be good,kind,honest,truthful, search the path of light.
written by Archpagan , August 01, 2010
Mirza Ghalib: Sir, Urdu is not a language at all. It has no grammar of its own and follows the Hindi grammar. It is Hindi in Persian script with smatterings of Arabic, Persian and Turkik, ALLA Tappa rightly said so. Urdu did originate in India, but it borrowed heavily from Persian sources. So much so, that it lost its ability to use metaphor and imagery used in other Indian languages. Even Iranians during the time of your great namesake of 18th century referred to Urdu as Indian variant of Persian (Sabek-i-Hind). Listening to Urdu news bulletin on Doordashan a few years back I was shocked to find that the reader preferred the English word 'leader' to the Sanskrit word 'neta'
written by Wagamama , August 02, 2010
Archpagan, few months ago I debated with an ex-Muslim from Pakistan. When I analyzed his Urdu adage I found that 90% of the words and grammar were originally taken from Sanskrit. Even though Pakistanis do not like it, yet they are forced to imitate the culture of kaffir Hindus. Look at their languages: Punjabi, Sindhi, Gujarati etc... they all have Hindu rubber-stamp on them. They only managed to change the script and add few Arabic/Persian words. Everywhere in the middle east, except Persia, when people were converted, Arabic was imposed on them. However, in the Indian subcontinent the converted still retained their languages, culture, cuisine, and tradition of Hindus (buddhists, jains, sikhs etc).
Another fact is that Muslims from Pakistan and India still retain Hindu surnames. Rao, Patel, Sami (swamy), Butt (Bhat), Desai etc are all Hindu surnames. Their forefathers chose to retain Hindu surnames hoping that their future generation may return to their ancestral faith after realizing the horrors of Islam.
Another fact is that Muslims from Pakistan and India still retain Hindu surnames. Rao, Patel, Sami (swamy), Butt (Bhat), Desai etc are all Hindu surnames. Their forefathers chose to retain Hindu surnames hoping that their future generation may return to their ancestral faith after realizing the horrors of Islam.
written by Archpagan , August 03, 2010
Many thanks for your back-ups. 'Mera father dead ho gaye' is neither English nor a new language, it is essentially Hindi with admixture of English. It may sound beautiful to some perverse mind, but to a Hindi speaking person it will sound weird. Urdu follows the same grammar as Hindi using all the pronouns, case-endings and auxiliary verbs used in Hindi.
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , August 05, 2010
surprised to see you again here after a long time. I always reminded you that your desi encyclopedia won't work as long as I am here. if your encyclopedia would genuine, you would never say Lunar calandar comprises on 360 days. 
anyhow, here language is not the problem, either it is Urdu, Hindi, Sansikrat, Arabic or English; however, the problem here is religion what is Isialm. you wrote, "Even though Pakistanis do not like it, yet they are forced to imitate the culture of kaffir Hindus." it is because Afghan or Arabic muslims brought their dishonest faith, not culture. That's why you always get pinched when the word Pagan is used anywhere. there is nothing wrong in this word.
and please stop reading desi encyclopedias
Mohammad.A.Khan
anyhow, here language is not the problem, either it is Urdu, Hindi, Sansikrat, Arabic or English; however, the problem here is religion what is Isialm. you wrote, "Even though Pakistanis do not like it, yet they are forced to imitate the culture of kaffir Hindus." it is because Afghan or Arabic muslims brought their dishonest faith, not culture. That's why you always get pinched when the word Pagan is used anywhere. there is nothing wrong in this word.
and please stop reading desi encyclopedias
Mohammad.A.Khan
written by Wagamama , August 06, 2010
Hey halfdik, howaya mate? Hope you are enjoying curries and reciting Qurand! . The moment I showed your loopholes in your arguments you decided not to argue. It is a typical of cutlets! 
P.S: Whether you like it or not, all porkistanis will continue retaining Hindu surnames, follow Hindu-origin culture (singing, dancing etc), use Hindu-origin languages etc. Didn't you say Hindu is a derogatory word in Porkistan? How do they reconcile that with the facts I have mentioned? Tough to answer isn't it?
P.S.S: What's happening in Karachi, Porkistan? Hope your relatives are not raped after every Friday Azan! I pity that Porkistanis genes were badly damaged by your great Arabic gand-fathers.
P.S: Whether you like it or not, all porkistanis will continue retaining Hindu surnames, follow Hindu-origin culture (singing, dancing etc), use Hindu-origin languages etc. Didn't you say Hindu is a derogatory word in Porkistan? How do they reconcile that with the facts I have mentioned? Tough to answer isn't it?
P.S.S: What's happening in Karachi, Porkistan? Hope your relatives are not raped after every Friday Azan! I pity that Porkistanis genes were badly damaged by your great Arabic gand-fathers.
written by mirzaghalib , August 06, 2010
URDU and RELIGION.
In this site we share our experiences, feelings and sufferings which we have experienced in the name of religion. So I exchanged my feelings with Khalid about the Eradication of URDU - the Indian born language, in the name of religion.
So many people justifying this eradication by their replies. One of our friends comparing Urdu and Tamil. And advising me to adopt Tamil as my own.( Dear Sir I am well verse in both the languages. May be you are an ignorant of these languages.) Their justifications are the proof for their hate rate. They simply cant throw Urdu. What they are speaking in the name of hindi is not at all a hindi.( Any way I don’t hate hindi as they do with Urdu ). 90% of the present “Hindi” is Urdu only. They have succeeded in eradicating Urdu alphabets, but they can’t remove its vocabulary.
Anyway we are moving away from our main topic which Khalid shared with us. Our aim is to eradicate Islam from the face of this beautiful earth. In my opinion those who are visiting this site are intellectuals and we should prove this in our writings.
Mirza Ghalib
In this site we share our experiences, feelings and sufferings which we have experienced in the name of religion. So I exchanged my feelings with Khalid about the Eradication of URDU - the Indian born language, in the name of religion.
So many people justifying this eradication by their replies. One of our friends comparing Urdu and Tamil. And advising me to adopt Tamil as my own.( Dear Sir I am well verse in both the languages. May be you are an ignorant of these languages.) Their justifications are the proof for their hate rate. They simply cant throw Urdu. What they are speaking in the name of hindi is not at all a hindi.( Any way I don’t hate hindi as they do with Urdu ). 90% of the present “Hindi” is Urdu only. They have succeeded in eradicating Urdu alphabets, but they can’t remove its vocabulary.
Anyway we are moving away from our main topic which Khalid shared with us. Our aim is to eradicate Islam from the face of this beautiful earth. In my opinion those who are visiting this site are intellectuals and we should prove this in our writings.
Mirza Ghalib
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , August 07, 2010
your wrote, "The moment I showed your loopholes in your arguments you decided not to argue." where is your loophole that you showed to me? can you show me one example? However, you are the only clown here who is insisting word Pagan is derogative term. And you know that everyone here proved you wrong. But you are, like I said, a stuborn child with bad manners and brought-up in an unethical atmosphere.
Your next claim is also wrong that why Pakis or Porkis, whatever it suits to you can say, keep their sur names as hindus, Rao, Rajputs and many others. It is because those who are intellectual and understand like other ex-Muslims in Pakistan don't hate their history of Hindus. But yes, there are more people in the same country, who is aloof of their Islamic-history and they think Hindus do shirk, consequently, they hate Hindus. But they don't know reality. Thats why I said, hindu term is derogatory for these Pakistani Muslims. However, I don't mind to be called Hindu, because the respected readers knows me who I am here, and I am not a loser like you. Like i told you many times before, that wagamama can never be Mohammad.A.Khan, and Mohammad.A.Khan can never be wagamama. but the problem with you is that you always forget this point.
And yes, don't try to tell me what is happening in Karachi, because it has been happened even worst in India long years ago and who raped there who, you might know better than me
Mohammad.A.Khan
However, you are the only clown here who is insisting word Pagan is derogative term. And you know that everyone here proved you wrong. But you are, like I said, a stuborn child with bad manners and brought-up in an unethical atmosphere. Your next claim is also wrong that why Pakis or Porkis, whatever it suits to you can say, keep their sur names as hindus, Rao, Rajputs and many others. It is because those who are intellectual and understand like other ex-Muslims in Pakistan don't hate their history of Hindus. But yes, there are more people in the same country, who is aloof of their Islamic-history and they think Hindus do shirk, consequently, they hate Hindus. But they don't know reality. Thats why I said, hindu term is derogatory for these Pakistani Muslims. However, I don't mind to be called Hindu, because the respected readers knows me who I am here, and I am not a loser like you. Like i told you many times before, that wagamama can never be Mohammad.A.Khan, and Mohammad.A.Khan can never be wagamama. but the problem with you is that you always forget this point.
And yes, don't try to tell me what is happening in Karachi, because it has been happened even worst in India long years ago and who raped there who, you might know better than me
Mohammad.A.Khan
written by Wagamama , August 08, 2010
Intellectuals in Pakistan don't hate their history of Hindus? I have read what your Government teaches to children in schools. I presume the curriculum is designed by "intellectual" (how funny) muslims. Just to give an example, it is mentioned in Porki curriculum that Multan was ruled by an infidel Hindu, who harassed his subjects and that the invading Muslims defeated him and liberated the subjects from the clutches of polytheists. All history in Pakistan is written glorifying Ghori, Ghazni, Zengis Khan, and other marauders. We even see Pakis names starting or ending with Ghori, Ghazni, Tughlaq etc. It shows the intellectual level of Pakis. Every Pakistani tries to find a great great "gand" father from Arabia, Persia, and other dirty islamic nations. How funny! When the history itself is doctored in Porkistan, can we expect something good from them?
I am writing an article on how most of the peace-loving subcontinent people were converted by the sword of Islam. And it is not definitely due to the alleged "caste system" -- as you believe-- for there are a large number of castes in Paki and Indian muslims. I hope your ancestor was from the clan of Zenghis Khan. Did he come to subcontinent riding a horse and reciting peaceful Qurand, whose enigmatic verses attracted one of the infidel women (your ancestor) so that she fell in love with him and so the future generations got the surname, Khan? Or did he rape an infidel woman after getting her as war booty in accordance with Qurandic verses? The latter seems to be the only reasonable answer! OTOH, those Muslims with Hindu surnames decided to convert to Islam to save their heads and they retained their surnames to remind them of their ancestry. Wait for my article to see the truth.... Until then ask your fella citizens in Porkistan to read true history!
Wagamama
I am writing an article on how most of the peace-loving subcontinent people were converted by the sword of Islam. And it is not definitely due to the alleged "caste system" -- as you believe-- for there are a large number of castes in Paki and Indian muslims. I hope your ancestor was from the clan of Zenghis Khan. Did he come to subcontinent riding a horse and reciting peaceful Qurand, whose enigmatic verses attracted one of the infidel women (your ancestor) so that she fell in love with him and so the future generations got the surname, Khan? Or did he rape an infidel woman after getting her as war booty in accordance with Qurandic verses? The latter seems to be the only reasonable answer! OTOH, those Muslims with Hindu surnames decided to convert to Islam to save their heads and they retained their surnames to remind them of their ancestry. Wait for my article to see the truth.... Until then ask your fella citizens in Porkistan to read true history!
Wagamama
written by Rationalist , August 08, 2010
Every article here shows the real, evil face of Islam. However, it is very rare or almost impossible to find an article that deals on how to tackle Islamic terrorism. Apart from Vijay Kumar’s article which emphasizes on defeating islam, to my knowledge, other authors have not concentrated on headbutting Islam. This is the need of the hour.
written by Archpagan , August 08, 2010
Chenghiz Khan was not a Muslim. So far as my knowledge goes, (I have just school level knowledge of History) he was born in present day Mongolia and used to follow some pidgin form of Buddhism. He owned the largest empire in pre-modern History. He marched to Baghdad and pillaged that city. HE GOT THE KORAN TRAMPLED BY THE HORSE HE WAS RIDING ON. He administered sermons to the Imam of Baghdad telling that one need not go to Mecca to find God.
Chenghiz Khan did enter India, but he stayed here only for a brief period. Pakistanis were forced into Islam by the marauding armies of Muhammad-bin-Kasim, Mahmud Gazhanavi and Timur langie. Medieval Muslim historians gleefully reported how the kafirs/ idolaters were forced to accept Islam, their women sold as slaves. Something for the descendants of those kafirs to be proud of indeed!
History lessons in Pakistani schools starts with the invasion of Sindh by Muhammad-bin-Kasim. There is complete black out of the reign of Akbar the Great (1556- 1605), but, Aurangzeb the bigot is portrayed as the ideal ruler. According to Paki history Muslims demanded partition of India, because Hindu Tantriks frequently sacrificed Muslim boys before Goddess Kali. After partition Hindus resisted Indian Muslims from crossing over to Pakistan!etc.
Due to his training and upbringings, Muhammad A. Khan may have some warped view of Hindus and Hinduism. But, overall, he is a gentleman.
Chenghiz Khan did enter India, but he stayed here only for a brief period. Pakistanis were forced into Islam by the marauding armies of Muhammad-bin-Kasim, Mahmud Gazhanavi and Timur langie. Medieval Muslim historians gleefully reported how the kafirs/ idolaters were forced to accept Islam, their women sold as slaves. Something for the descendants of those kafirs to be proud of indeed!
History lessons in Pakistani schools starts with the invasion of Sindh by Muhammad-bin-Kasim. There is complete black out of the reign of Akbar the Great (1556- 1605), but, Aurangzeb the bigot is portrayed as the ideal ruler. According to Paki history Muslims demanded partition of India, because Hindu Tantriks frequently sacrificed Muslim boys before Goddess Kali. After partition Hindus resisted Indian Muslims from crossing over to Pakistan!etc.
Due to his training and upbringings, Muhammad A. Khan may have some warped view of Hindus and Hinduism. But, overall, he is a gentleman.
written by Archpagan , August 08, 2010
I would like to put up a straight question to you, which I think, will settle the issue. Which one is older, Hindi or Urdu?
Bollywood Hindi is not the literary Hindi, or Hindi spoken in the Hindi heartland of the Gangetic plane. It is an artificial language catering to the market needs. I have experience of mixing with Andhra Muslims. The 'Urdu' they use to converse among themselves is 90% Hindi. Bengali Muslims have a tendency to mix Persian and Arabic words in their speeches. But, they did not call it a different language.
Bollywood Hindi is not the literary Hindi, or Hindi spoken in the Hindi heartland of the Gangetic plane. It is an artificial language catering to the market needs. I have experience of mixing with Andhra Muslims. The 'Urdu' they use to converse among themselves is 90% Hindi. Bengali Muslims have a tendency to mix Persian and Arabic words in their speeches. But, they did not call it a different language.
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , August 08, 2010
YES, every ex-Muslim is definitly an intellectual for you regardless belonging to any country. whether he/she is American, Arabian or Pakistani ex-Muslim, they are intellectuals for you. On the other hand, you are same idiotic, rude, worthless hindu which knows nothing about history, but posting your idiot remarks and make readers laugh on you. That is why I always reminds you that there is a hell of difference between you and me. My forefathers not only left Hinduism, but I also quit Islam. I have three main faiths.
1. There is NO god.
2. There were no any prophets; whoever claimed to be prophet, or god, no matter he was, Abrahama, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Raam, Krishna, etc... they were alll LIARS and PRETENDERS
3. There is NO next life.
Now look at yourself, in this 21st century, you still believe in Atma(spirits). what a stupidity? you have plenty of gods. However, I believed in one god, but not anymore. Those were the days of Ignorance. Religion is the main cause of driving people crazy and producing discrimination among brotherhood. And remember that time, when I reminded you that Hinduism is based on caste system, and you got so ashamed that you couldn't bear that truth and denied this reality. and you said, that I learnt it in madrassas in Pakistan. Now what would you say, the children who are here in America and they are taught that Hinduism was based on Caste system. Are there also Madrassas in the United States of America?
Hey, dude, don't get ashamed of your own casted system religion. Accept truth, or dare to leave religion like I did. If you don't agree with me, then get ready for the attribution of the word 'Pagan' that really suits on you and you know what does this word mean.
You write article, and let see what I do with you over there.
1. There is NO god.
2. There were no any prophets; whoever claimed to be prophet, or god, no matter he was, Abrahama, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Raam, Krishna, etc... they were alll LIARS and PRETENDERS
3. There is NO next life.
Now look at yourself, in this 21st century, you still believe in Atma(spirits). what a stupidity? you have plenty of gods. However, I believed in one god, but not anymore. Those were the days of Ignorance. Religion is the main cause of driving people crazy and producing discrimination among brotherhood. And remember that time, when I reminded you that Hinduism is based on caste system, and you got so ashamed that you couldn't bear that truth and denied this reality. and you said, that I learnt it in madrassas in Pakistan. Now what would you say, the children who are here in America and they are taught that Hinduism was based on Caste system. Are there also Madrassas in the United States of America?
Hey, dude, don't get ashamed of your own casted system religion. Accept truth, or dare to leave religion like I did. If you don't agree with me, then get ready for the attribution of the word 'Pagan' that really suits on you and you know what does this word mean.
You write article, and let see what I do with you over there.
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , August 08, 2010
Thankyou Archpagan. Actually, this wagamama is a big idiot here and he never accepts the truth. It doesn't matter if I teach him or anyone else, but he is so rude that we can see his character from which family and caste he belongs from.
I dont know, if you have seen debate between me and wagamama, started on issue, whether the word Pagan is pejorative or not. Hence our debate lengthened and he even denied to accept truth. Then he tried to twist the topic, why I said Allah is not abrahamic god, but god of Pagans, as these are his tactics to try to avoid the real topic. But anyhow, he denies that Hinduism had caste systems ever. and he also denies the truth that the lowest caste people were not allowed to listen to their so-called holy scriptures.
I am in America and children in schools are taught here too that there were 4-5 caste system in Hinduism. now this idiot will say that there are madrassas in United States too.
Anyways, thankyou for telling some truth about chengiz Khan, according to wagamama, he was ever been a muslim.
perhaps this Idiot don't know what his grand son Halaku Khan did in Iraq and how many muslims he killed in one day.
Mohammad.A.Khan
I dont know, if you have seen debate between me and wagamama, started on issue, whether the word Pagan is pejorative or not. Hence our debate lengthened and he even denied to accept truth. Then he tried to twist the topic, why I said Allah is not abrahamic god, but god of Pagans, as these are his tactics to try to avoid the real topic. But anyhow, he denies that Hinduism had caste systems ever. and he also denies the truth that the lowest caste people were not allowed to listen to their so-called holy scriptures.
I am in America and children in schools are taught here too that there were 4-5 caste system in Hinduism. now this idiot will say that there are madrassas in United States too.
Anyways, thankyou for telling some truth about chengiz Khan, according to wagamama, he was ever been a muslim.
perhaps this Idiot don't know what his grand son Halaku Khan did in Iraq and how many muslims he killed in one day.
Mohammad.A.Khan
written by Machmoed , August 09, 2010
Chengis Khan was indeed no muslim, but why did he take and used the ideology (islam). At that time and place, it was the best and in that time arabic was an important scientific language. I always wondered why did he embrace islam as an ideology for his people? Why not buddhism or hinduism?
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , August 09, 2010
Once wagamama, passed statement that Arab pagans had 360 idols because they followed Lunar calandar. However, Lunar calandar has 354 to 355 days in a year. I want to know under what authority He said this. I want answer.
His next claim was that in subcontinent, Christians were more cruel towards Hindus than Muslims, due to goa inquisition. On the other hand, there are records from Hindu writers that Muslims were more cruel to Hindus even in the history of mankind. Hence, if you remember, in 90's, hindus destroyed Babari Mosque, instead of any church in India. if Christians were more cruel to Hindus, according to wagamam, then why did they destroyed Babari Mosque instead of Church? I want a clear and simple explanation. I am not in favor of Pakistan or any Muslim, but the comments he passes, he has to make it more clear.
I want you to stay here and see what he answers. he answered me before on these question, but if I show you his answers by copy and pasting, you will get confused. Nothing more to say.
Mohammad.A.Khan
His next claim was that in subcontinent, Christians were more cruel towards Hindus than Muslims, due to goa inquisition. On the other hand, there are records from Hindu writers that Muslims were more cruel to Hindus even in the history of mankind. Hence, if you remember, in 90's, hindus destroyed Babari Mosque, instead of any church in India. if Christians were more cruel to Hindus, according to wagamam, then why did they destroyed Babari Mosque instead of Church? I want a clear and simple explanation. I am not in favor of Pakistan or any Muslim, but the comments he passes, he has to make it more clear.
I want you to stay here and see what he answers. he answered me before on these question, but if I show you his answers by copy and pasting, you will get confused. Nothing more to say.
Mohammad.A.Khan
written by Wagamama , August 10, 2010
Dude, you made so many mistakes in your previous debates that you said you didn't want to continue the debate. Go back and see those discussions. Whether I believe in atma or paramatma or reincarnation or moksha, it is my personal choice. However, we don't go on killing people in the name of religion. Instead of hiding in USA go to your porki land and reform those people. Too scared to do that, hey?
My article will show with proof how many parts of the subcontinent were forced to accept Islam through terror, rape, and pillage. Until then dhiraj rakho theek hain....
Wagamama
P.S: All I meant is the progeny of Genghis Khan became Muslims and one of them could be your great gand-father!
My article will show with proof how many parts of the subcontinent were forced to accept Islam through terror, rape, and pillage. Until then dhiraj rakho theek hain....
Wagamama
P.S: All I meant is the progeny of Genghis Khan became Muslims and one of them could be your great gand-father!
written by Wagamama , August 10, 2010
We must be proud of the heritage of Indians, Greeks, Druids, Celtics, and other great so called "pagan" (it is better than being called Mu-slums) civilizations. I will prove in my article that the Porki Muslims are either raped products of Arabs or Persian kutlets or forcible converts. I guess you already know this. If you want to know the truth about the debate with this idiot Muhammad (pssBUH) Khan, look for original articles where he cannot defend what he says. I have been collecting the info from court chronicles of thug Islamic rulers. When evidence is presented he may either run away or produce proof from his madarsa books! LOL I will try to publish it on FFI, too
Cyao
Cyao
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , August 10, 2010
I want you to write an article and bring truth before the world. If you bring truth before world I will agree with you what you say. But remember, don't say anything thing that is away from truth. And I told you before I am the man of my words. I condemn Pakistanis and Muslims because I have directly interacted with them.
You wrote, "Whether I believe in atma or paramatma or reincarnation or moksha, it is my personal choice. However, we don't go on killing people in the name of religion." You are right; thats why I quit my religion because of this logic. Every religion is based on prejudice and look down upon others. For example, Christians believe, their religion is best other are inferiors, likewise with Mulslims, the situation is same. In Hinduism, they boast Hinduism is the oldest and pure religion than others. This is not good. Now due to this discrimination factor, why don't you quit Hinduism? Look, I left my religion because as you said, that Muslims kill others because in the name of religion or allah. If you are persistant and dont want to quit Hinduism, which cast down or look down upon those who are not Hindus, so I think there is something wrong with you, isn't it? Or in other words, I am forced to say that you think with bias mentality.
Mohammad.A.Khan
You wrote, "Whether I believe in atma or paramatma or reincarnation or moksha, it is my personal choice. However, we don't go on killing people in the name of religion." You are right; thats why I quit my religion because of this logic. Every religion is based on prejudice and look down upon others. For example, Christians believe, their religion is best other are inferiors, likewise with Mulslims, the situation is same. In Hinduism, they boast Hinduism is the oldest and pure religion than others. This is not good. Now due to this discrimination factor, why don't you quit Hinduism? Look, I left my religion because as you said, that Muslims kill others because in the name of religion or allah. If you are persistant and dont want to quit Hinduism, which cast down or look down upon those who are not Hindus, so I think there is something wrong with you, isn't it? Or in other words, I am forced to say that you think with bias mentality.
Mohammad.A.Khan
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , August 10, 2010
Instead of answering my question, that wagamama never answered to me and might not be able to answer me ever. However, atleast he could have copy and paste his answer from real debate between me and him, if he would have answered it. May be, I think he was shy to copy and paste whatever he claimed.
But anyways I am going to copy and paste of that small part of that debate. my question was under what authority he said that Pagan Arabs worshiped 360 idols because they followed Lunar calendar. this debate can be viewed at following site:
http://www.islam-watch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=322:the-quran-confesses-allah-was-a-pagan-god-before-islam&catid=112:mohammad&Itemid=58
To Mohammad Khan
written by Wagamama , February 11, 2010
"...if so called 'pagans' of Mecca were unscientific, how come they had a lunar calendar? Does that mean the Bible or Torah is scientific? There were 360 idols in Mecca and they had divided 12 months into 30 days each, which equals 360 days. Following lunar calender is scientific..."
upon this I corrected his mistake by following reply:
To Wagamama (Nightmare)
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , February 12, 2010
"...Lunar calendar is comprised on 30 and 29 days. That makes 354 or 355 days in a year. The reason behind 29 numeric after alternate month was to prevent mistakes for the difference in 5 days after few years. It is very well known that there is 10 to 11 days difference between solar calendar and Lunar Calendar. Pagan Arabs knew that solar calendar is mandated in other parts but they indeed followed lunar calendar. This doesn’t mean at all that Meccans were highly civilized people and scientifically advanced, but history tells you, pagan arabs were nomadic people and were divided into tribes..."
After this he never said anything about Lunar Calendar.
If I am liar, so I have posted site, and debate could be viewed thoroughly. If he said anything about Lunar calendar or ever said that Lunar calender doesn't comprises on 354 or 355 days. I will lose all debate to this wagamama.
This is my challenge.
And Mr.Archpagan, my views are not warp about Hindus, but my only objection is that wagamama never accept his mistakes. One thing more, to accept self mistake is not a big deal, but good for self purpose which protect from more mistakes in the future.
Mohammad.A.Khan
But anyways I am going to copy and paste of that small part of that debate. my question was under what authority he said that Pagan Arabs worshiped 360 idols because they followed Lunar calendar. this debate can be viewed at following site:
http://www.islam-watch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=322:the-quran-confesses-allah-was-a-pagan-god-before-islam&catid=112:mohammad&Itemid=58
To Mohammad Khan
written by Wagamama , February 11, 2010
"...if so called 'pagans' of Mecca were unscientific, how come they had a lunar calendar? Does that mean the Bible or Torah is scientific? There were 360 idols in Mecca and they had divided 12 months into 30 days each, which equals 360 days. Following lunar calender is scientific..."
upon this I corrected his mistake by following reply:
To Wagamama (Nightmare)
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , February 12, 2010
"...Lunar calendar is comprised on 30 and 29 days. That makes 354 or 355 days in a year. The reason behind 29 numeric after alternate month was to prevent mistakes for the difference in 5 days after few years. It is very well known that there is 10 to 11 days difference between solar calendar and Lunar Calendar. Pagan Arabs knew that solar calendar is mandated in other parts but they indeed followed lunar calendar. This doesn’t mean at all that Meccans were highly civilized people and scientifically advanced, but history tells you, pagan arabs were nomadic people and were divided into tribes..."
After this he never said anything about Lunar Calendar.
If I am liar, so I have posted site, and debate could be viewed thoroughly. If he said anything about Lunar calendar or ever said that Lunar calender doesn't comprises on 354 or 355 days. I will lose all debate to this wagamama.
This is my challenge.
And Mr.Archpagan, my views are not warp about Hindus, but my only objection is that wagamama never accept his mistakes. One thing more, to accept self mistake is not a big deal, but good for self purpose which protect from more mistakes in the future.
Mohammad.A.Khan
written by Archpagan , August 10, 2010
Forget him pal, suppose he is too young to be taken seriously, stay relaxed and calm. That would be good for your health.
I would like to give here some graphics of facts in relation to Hindus and Hinduism that are butts of attacks from Jihadis, Missionaries and secular Hindus alike. I will place them in modern or non-Indian context without drawing any conclusion. Being intelligent, well educated and rational in outlook, You shall be able to draw your own conclusion.
Firstly, Sudras were debarred from learning or listening to the Vedas only. there was no such restriction in regard to other scriptures e. g. Epics or Purana. In fact, it was Sudras (Sutas) who used to sing Puranas and Epics in king's court. Now, we have the copyright act , patent act and intellectual property rights act etc. Violation of such acts on our part can land us up in jail. Remember Vedas were compiled by the Brahmans and the concept of Hindu unity was absent throughout history and still a non-starter.
Secondly some peoples, not all Sudras, were considered untouchables. It was a social phenomenon with no religious or theological significance. People of strange customs, food habits, life-style and professions were treated as untouchables. Those were the tribals ( hunters and gatherers who still eat rats and squirrels), tannery workers (Chamars, who till the other day used to eat dead beef), crematorium workers (Chandals or Domes), midwives (Dules or Bagdis) to name a few. It can not be likened to the Semitic people's treatment of the pagans or heathens. Untouchability was not a one way traffic either. The tribals too considered the non-tribals as untouchable. I have first hand experience about it while living the first 25 years of my life in a remote village. I was intrigued to find there that the female labourers of the saontal tribe, who worked in our agricultural land refused to touch cooked food offered by our women. Now, the Spanish and Portuguese people say they did not really slaughtered the indigenous people of the American continents. They all died out because they failed to cope with the new diseases brought into their country by the Europeans. The Untouchables of India are now doing fine and kicking, enjoying proportionate reservation in Government services and professional courses. They have largely retained their culture, language customs etc. But , where are those beloved neighbours, who were extended 'fatherly' embrace? Aborigines of Australia, some American Indians and the Jarwas of Nicobar live in protected areas. Hauz that? Untouchabilty?
Is untouchabilty really unknown outside India, as it made out to be? In my school syllabus for English, there was a short story titled " Doll's House" written by Ms Katherine Mansfield. There, it was narrated how a little immaculate English girl Kezia was hounded out of her friend' s residence by aunt Beryl because of her humble origin. The punchline I remember is "Off you go immediately". My teacher translated it as "BHAG SHAALI".
If you are really interested, I shall continue with casteism. Bye for now. Wishing you best. Have a good day.
I would like to give here some graphics of facts in relation to Hindus and Hinduism that are butts of attacks from Jihadis, Missionaries and secular Hindus alike. I will place them in modern or non-Indian context without drawing any conclusion. Being intelligent, well educated and rational in outlook, You shall be able to draw your own conclusion.
Firstly, Sudras were debarred from learning or listening to the Vedas only. there was no such restriction in regard to other scriptures e. g. Epics or Purana. In fact, it was Sudras (Sutas) who used to sing Puranas and Epics in king's court. Now, we have the copyright act , patent act and intellectual property rights act etc. Violation of such acts on our part can land us up in jail. Remember Vedas were compiled by the Brahmans and the concept of Hindu unity was absent throughout history and still a non-starter.
Secondly some peoples, not all Sudras, were considered untouchables. It was a social phenomenon with no religious or theological significance. People of strange customs, food habits, life-style and professions were treated as untouchables. Those were the tribals ( hunters and gatherers who still eat rats and squirrels), tannery workers (Chamars, who till the other day used to eat dead beef), crematorium workers (Chandals or Domes), midwives (Dules or Bagdis) to name a few. It can not be likened to the Semitic people's treatment of the pagans or heathens. Untouchability was not a one way traffic either. The tribals too considered the non-tribals as untouchable. I have first hand experience about it while living the first 25 years of my life in a remote village. I was intrigued to find there that the female labourers of the saontal tribe, who worked in our agricultural land refused to touch cooked food offered by our women. Now, the Spanish and Portuguese people say they did not really slaughtered the indigenous people of the American continents. They all died out because they failed to cope with the new diseases brought into their country by the Europeans. The Untouchables of India are now doing fine and kicking, enjoying proportionate reservation in Government services and professional courses. They have largely retained their culture, language customs etc. But , where are those beloved neighbours, who were extended 'fatherly' embrace? Aborigines of Australia, some American Indians and the Jarwas of Nicobar live in protected areas. Hauz that? Untouchabilty?
Is untouchabilty really unknown outside India, as it made out to be? In my school syllabus for English, there was a short story titled " Doll's House" written by Ms Katherine Mansfield. There, it was narrated how a little immaculate English girl Kezia was hounded out of her friend' s residence by aunt Beryl because of her humble origin. The punchline I remember is "Off you go immediately". My teacher translated it as "BHAG SHAALI".
If you are really interested, I shall continue with casteism. Bye for now. Wishing you best. Have a good day.
written by mirzaghalib , August 10, 2010
URDU AND SOME FANATIC HINDUS!!!
Brother Archpagan, you mentioned in your letter that, Bollywood Hindi is not the “proper hindi" . Yes you are correct, it is not Hindi, of course it is Urdu. This ARTIFICIAL LANGUAGE has a very good market value. So, Bollywood needs URDU to reach the common man.
Mirza Ghalib
Brother Archpagan, you mentioned in your letter that, Bollywood Hindi is not the “proper hindi" . Yes you are correct, it is not Hindi, of course it is Urdu. This ARTIFICIAL LANGUAGE has a very good market value. So, Bollywood needs URDU to reach the common man.
Mirza Ghalib
written by Archpagan , August 11, 2010
I have followed articles published in this site in the name of Muhammad A Khan and got the impression that he is far more decent a guy than our Hindu secularists. I came to appreciate your scholarship as well after I went through your article published in Haindavakeralam.com. But, I think it is unbecoming of a person of your intellectual achievement to hurl abuse in this manner at Mr Khan.
Lunar calender does consist of 354-355 days, which is unscientific. Because, cycle of season repeats according to Solar calender. History of Pagan Arabs as recorded by their enemy is hardly dependable. I am not sure if pagan Arabs used Lunar calender. Perhaps,the Kaaba temple contained 365 deities who were worshiped one by one round the year. Although nomadic, The pagan Arabs were cultured people. They developed the Arabic language, created literature, song, dance etc and believed in free thinking and pluralism. They were not ignorant of science too. People of Yathreb taught a lesson or two to Muhammad on artificial pollination. Living in a desert wasteland, where change of season is hardly visible, the illiterate Muhammad could not understand the utility of Solar calender. So, he opted for Lunar calender, which could be easy tracked or accounted by an illiterate person.
A sane advise, don't waste your time here, pack off and concentrate on your research. Visit HK, I shall be there too.
Lunar calender does consist of 354-355 days, which is unscientific. Because, cycle of season repeats according to Solar calender. History of Pagan Arabs as recorded by their enemy is hardly dependable. I am not sure if pagan Arabs used Lunar calender. Perhaps,the Kaaba temple contained 365 deities who were worshiped one by one round the year. Although nomadic, The pagan Arabs were cultured people. They developed the Arabic language, created literature, song, dance etc and believed in free thinking and pluralism. They were not ignorant of science too. People of Yathreb taught a lesson or two to Muhammad on artificial pollination. Living in a desert wasteland, where change of season is hardly visible, the illiterate Muhammad could not understand the utility of Solar calender. So, he opted for Lunar calender, which could be easy tracked or accounted by an illiterate person.
A sane advise, don't waste your time here, pack off and concentrate on your research. Visit HK, I shall be there too.
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , August 12, 2010
Once again thankyou for your reply and kind words for me. I liked the information about you wrote on Sudras and Hindu scriptures. to tell you truth, I like Indians and Hindus because some are really high and one of the best intellects in the world. On internet, some of them are my friends too. I really regard them.
I don't know why Wagamama is not one of those, and abuses that he hurled at me, I personally didn't mind because I know he was defaming himself on this site. On the other hand, I was harsh too but I was trying to keep myself from uttering any bad word. I tolerated him alot. But you are right, I shouldn't take him serious because he is not of my caliber.
I never heard if arab pagans had ever 365 deities, because I was thinking what would wrong if historians would say 365 deities instead of 360. On the other hand, historians say that because Mecca or Kaaba was very renowned shrine in hijaz and some other parts of the Arabia. however, mostly arabians were divided into tribes and had their deities. when the season of huj would arrive, Quraish started to collect money from other pilgrims that was one of their source of income. whatever the history is, it has left in complex for even their own followers and generations.
as long as the civilization of Arabians go, historians compared Arabs with Roman empire and zoroastrians who were far inferior than latters. Other very solid point is that Arabia had always been an inhospitable land for foreign countries in old days. Consequently, Arabia left far behind in economical ways that effected their cultural, social and other aspects of life. Not only this but due to lack of business oppertunites in central arabia, their people always would travel outside of Arabia, like syria or southward to Oman and Yamen for their survival. In other words, they Central arabian tribes were almost cut off from other civilizations, but they kept listening to the stories and myths of gigantic powers and history of the middle-east.
the other very solid point, in my mind, is that pre-Islamic Arabians definitely followed lunar calendar because their caravans always commenced their journey at night, because they couldn't travel in day-time due to scorching sun and heat. Resultantly they avoid to travely in day-time. They thought that when the full-moon would appear so they started their journey, because under full-moon, you can see for long distance through complete darkness. As a result, they thought moon as their god, which protect them from day-time heat, and make journey permissible in the night. Thus mostly their journeys were at night when moon was usually at or nearly peak so that they could view their way while travelling.
anyways, I am interested to know more about casteism, as you were narrating in your last message.
Have a nice day to you too.
Mohammad.A.Khan
I don't know why Wagamama is not one of those, and abuses that he hurled at me, I personally didn't mind because I know he was defaming himself on this site. On the other hand, I was harsh too but I was trying to keep myself from uttering any bad word. I tolerated him alot. But you are right, I shouldn't take him serious because he is not of my caliber.
I never heard if arab pagans had ever 365 deities, because I was thinking what would wrong if historians would say 365 deities instead of 360. On the other hand, historians say that because Mecca or Kaaba was very renowned shrine in hijaz and some other parts of the Arabia. however, mostly arabians were divided into tribes and had their deities. when the season of huj would arrive, Quraish started to collect money from other pilgrims that was one of their source of income. whatever the history is, it has left in complex for even their own followers and generations.
as long as the civilization of Arabians go, historians compared Arabs with Roman empire and zoroastrians who were far inferior than latters. Other very solid point is that Arabia had always been an inhospitable land for foreign countries in old days. Consequently, Arabia left far behind in economical ways that effected their cultural, social and other aspects of life. Not only this but due to lack of business oppertunites in central arabia, their people always would travel outside of Arabia, like syria or southward to Oman and Yamen for their survival. In other words, they Central arabian tribes were almost cut off from other civilizations, but they kept listening to the stories and myths of gigantic powers and history of the middle-east.
the other very solid point, in my mind, is that pre-Islamic Arabians definitely followed lunar calendar because their caravans always commenced their journey at night, because they couldn't travel in day-time due to scorching sun and heat. Resultantly they avoid to travely in day-time. They thought that when the full-moon would appear so they started their journey, because under full-moon, you can see for long distance through complete darkness. As a result, they thought moon as their god, which protect them from day-time heat, and make journey permissible in the night. Thus mostly their journeys were at night when moon was usually at or nearly peak so that they could view their way while travelling.
anyways, I am interested to know more about casteism, as you were narrating in your last message.
Have a nice day to you too.
Mohammad.A.Khan
written by Archpagan , August 14, 2010
Many thanks for enlightening me on why the ancient Arabs as well as Muhammad opted for lunar calender in preference to solar one, in spite of the fact that solar calender was followed in the contemporary world. Interaction with you is really rewarding.
It is difficult to discuss all aspects of casteism in the limited scope of a blog space. Still, I shall attempt one concentrating mainly on aspects deliberately missed or not highlighted by its critics.
There are two Sanskrit words varna and jati which are commonly translated as caste. But, varna means the intrinsic merit of a person, while jati means 'kinship clan'. However, in the case of Bramhan the two words are synonymous. Other three varnas comprise multiple jatis. There was never four-fold division of Indian society as it is commonly believed, which is amply clear from the fact that Shri Krishna who proclaimed ''I have created four varnas ----'' in the Gita, impersonating as God did not himself belonged to any of the four varnas; he was a jadav. Sanjay, who conveyed the message to king Dhritarastra, was a suta.
The jatis were already in existence evolving through socio-economic-political process. The Vedas just endorsed it creating privileged and under-privileged groups over there. The Bramhans and the Kshatriyas together formed the privileged group whereas the Vaisyas and the Sudras were placed in the underprivileged group. Surprisingly, the people who rebelled against the new system, happened to be the Kshatriyas, which is reflected in the rivalry of king Vishvamitra versus sage Vashishta and Sage Parasuram versus King Kartabirya latter on versus Ram. The rivalry continued till the days of Lord Buddha, a Kshatriya, who gave it an ideological color, repudiating the Vedas altogether. There is no record of any Sudra or Vaishya rebellion.
Situation in the contemporary world was much worse. Economy was wholly dependent on slavery and slave trade. People fought battles to capture slave. In order to avoid being caught and taken prisoner, people used to fight to the last man, without thinking of any peace treaty. So, History in the west are replete with wholesale massacre of people and destruction of cities. We avoided such fate.
Manu's Samhita sought to perpetuate the system by calling for conforming to the Vedas while selecting a profession, making it impossible to change one's varna. But, critics willfully suppress the fact that Manusamhita was a social code- an exhortation to people to observe it voluntarily as part of religion. It was not a law code to be enforced by the state on its subject. There never was any machinery in place to enforce the Samhita, Nor, would anyone find that a Hindu king vowed to rule as per Manusamhita. In an era when state- sponsored universal education was unthinkable people voluntarily followed Manu's code. A farmer's son had to be a farmer because there was practically no scope for him to learn medicine.
But, people did break caste barriers when enterprise followed merit. In ancient time many Sudra and Bramhan dynasties ruled in parts of India, without report of any social upheaval. Dharmavyadh, a hunter, attained such erudition that a Bramhan Kaushik had to take theological lessons from him, which is preserved as 'Vyadhgeeta'. In the 16th century Sant Rabidas , a chamar, took on the Bramhans in philosophical disputations, defeated them and rose to the status of a Guru. Hemu, the Hindu warlord, who captured the Delhi throne in 1556 for a brief period was a beniya. All these caused no social upheaval.
Actually, Bramhans, who were deprived of lucrative professions like trade and industry, were the least interested to follow the code. The king, who was more often than not a non-kshatriya was similarly disinterested. People just followed family trade due to lack of alternative. They married within their jatis due fear of Varnasankara [blood mixing].
Did casteism weakened the Hindu society so much that they were easily defeated by the Muslim invaders. I would humbly say, no sir. Rajput might was sufficient to contain the Muslims. Actually, we failed to recognize you as our enemy. It took us three hundred long years to figure out why your ancestors targeted our temples and deities. For us Dharma is an indivisible idea like righteousness, honesty and justice and humanity is one. So, we had to observe Dhama in our dealings with mlechhas as well.
TO BE CONTINUED
It is difficult to discuss all aspects of casteism in the limited scope of a blog space. Still, I shall attempt one concentrating mainly on aspects deliberately missed or not highlighted by its critics.
There are two Sanskrit words varna and jati which are commonly translated as caste. But, varna means the intrinsic merit of a person, while jati means 'kinship clan'. However, in the case of Bramhan the two words are synonymous. Other three varnas comprise multiple jatis. There was never four-fold division of Indian society as it is commonly believed, which is amply clear from the fact that Shri Krishna who proclaimed ''I have created four varnas ----'' in the Gita, impersonating as God did not himself belonged to any of the four varnas; he was a jadav. Sanjay, who conveyed the message to king Dhritarastra, was a suta.
The jatis were already in existence evolving through socio-economic-political process. The Vedas just endorsed it creating privileged and under-privileged groups over there. The Bramhans and the Kshatriyas together formed the privileged group whereas the Vaisyas and the Sudras were placed in the underprivileged group. Surprisingly, the people who rebelled against the new system, happened to be the Kshatriyas, which is reflected in the rivalry of king Vishvamitra versus sage Vashishta and Sage Parasuram versus King Kartabirya latter on versus Ram. The rivalry continued till the days of Lord Buddha, a Kshatriya, who gave it an ideological color, repudiating the Vedas altogether. There is no record of any Sudra or Vaishya rebellion.
Situation in the contemporary world was much worse. Economy was wholly dependent on slavery and slave trade. People fought battles to capture slave. In order to avoid being caught and taken prisoner, people used to fight to the last man, without thinking of any peace treaty. So, History in the west are replete with wholesale massacre of people and destruction of cities. We avoided such fate.
Manu's Samhita sought to perpetuate the system by calling for conforming to the Vedas while selecting a profession, making it impossible to change one's varna. But, critics willfully suppress the fact that Manusamhita was a social code- an exhortation to people to observe it voluntarily as part of religion. It was not a law code to be enforced by the state on its subject. There never was any machinery in place to enforce the Samhita, Nor, would anyone find that a Hindu king vowed to rule as per Manusamhita. In an era when state- sponsored universal education was unthinkable people voluntarily followed Manu's code. A farmer's son had to be a farmer because there was practically no scope for him to learn medicine.
But, people did break caste barriers when enterprise followed merit. In ancient time many Sudra and Bramhan dynasties ruled in parts of India, without report of any social upheaval. Dharmavyadh, a hunter, attained such erudition that a Bramhan Kaushik had to take theological lessons from him, which is preserved as 'Vyadhgeeta'. In the 16th century Sant Rabidas , a chamar, took on the Bramhans in philosophical disputations, defeated them and rose to the status of a Guru. Hemu, the Hindu warlord, who captured the Delhi throne in 1556 for a brief period was a beniya. All these caused no social upheaval.
Actually, Bramhans, who were deprived of lucrative professions like trade and industry, were the least interested to follow the code. The king, who was more often than not a non-kshatriya was similarly disinterested. People just followed family trade due to lack of alternative. They married within their jatis due fear of Varnasankara [blood mixing].
Did casteism weakened the Hindu society so much that they were easily defeated by the Muslim invaders. I would humbly say, no sir. Rajput might was sufficient to contain the Muslims. Actually, we failed to recognize you as our enemy. It took us three hundred long years to figure out why your ancestors targeted our temples and deities. For us Dharma is an indivisible idea like righteousness, honesty and justice and humanity is one. So, we had to observe Dhama in our dealings with mlechhas as well.
TO BE CONTINUED
written by Archpagan , August 15, 2010
CONTD--
Many thanks for enlightening me on why ancient Arabs as well as Muhammad preferred lunar calender in preference to solar one, in spite of the fact that the latter was followed in the contemporary world. Interaction with you is really rewarding.
It is difficult to discuss all aspects of casteism in the limited scope of a blog space. Still I shall attempt one concentrating mainly on aspects deliberately missed or not highlighted by its critics.
There are two separate Sanskrit words varna and jati which are commonly translated as caste. But varna means intrinsic merit of a person while jati means a 'kinship clan'. However, in the case of Bramhan the two words are synonymous. all other varnas have multiple jatis.There was never four fold division of Indian society as commonly believed, which is amply clear from the fact that Shri Krishna who proclaimed 'I have created four varnas----'in the Gita, impersonating as God Vishnu, did not himself belong to any of the four varnas; he was a Jadav. Sanjay, who conveyed his message to the king Dhritarastra was suta.
The jatis were already in existence evolving through socio-economic-political process. The Vedas only justified it creating one privileged group comprising Bramhans and Kshatryas and one under-privileged group comprising Vaishyas and Sudras over there. Surprisingly, the people who rebelled against the new system were the Kshatriyas, which is reflected in the rivalry between sage Vashistha and king Vishvamitra and fight between sage Parasuram and king Kartavirya Arjun , and later with Ram. The rivalry continued till the time of Lord Buddha, a Kshatriya, who repudiated the authority of the Vedas altogether. There is no record of a vaishya or sudra rebellion in history.
Situation in the contemporary world was much worse. Economy was entirely based on slavery and slave trade. Nations fought each other in order to capture slave. People fought to the last man without thinking of any peace treaty, so as to avoid being taken prisoner and sold as slave. Thus, History of the western world is replete with instances of wholesale massacre of people and total destruction of cities. We could avoid such fate.
TO BE CONTINUED
Many thanks for enlightening me on why ancient Arabs as well as Muhammad preferred lunar calender in preference to solar one, in spite of the fact that the latter was followed in the contemporary world. Interaction with you is really rewarding.
It is difficult to discuss all aspects of casteism in the limited scope of a blog space. Still I shall attempt one concentrating mainly on aspects deliberately missed or not highlighted by its critics.
There are two separate Sanskrit words varna and jati which are commonly translated as caste. But varna means intrinsic merit of a person while jati means a 'kinship clan'. However, in the case of Bramhan the two words are synonymous. all other varnas have multiple jatis.There was never four fold division of Indian society as commonly believed, which is amply clear from the fact that Shri Krishna who proclaimed 'I have created four varnas----'in the Gita, impersonating as God Vishnu, did not himself belong to any of the four varnas; he was a Jadav. Sanjay, who conveyed his message to the king Dhritarastra was suta.
The jatis were already in existence evolving through socio-economic-political process. The Vedas only justified it creating one privileged group comprising Bramhans and Kshatryas and one under-privileged group comprising Vaishyas and Sudras over there. Surprisingly, the people who rebelled against the new system were the Kshatriyas, which is reflected in the rivalry between sage Vashistha and king Vishvamitra and fight between sage Parasuram and king Kartavirya Arjun , and later with Ram. The rivalry continued till the time of Lord Buddha, a Kshatriya, who repudiated the authority of the Vedas altogether. There is no record of a vaishya or sudra rebellion in history.
Situation in the contemporary world was much worse. Economy was entirely based on slavery and slave trade. Nations fought each other in order to capture slave. People fought to the last man without thinking of any peace treaty, so as to avoid being taken prisoner and sold as slave. Thus, History of the western world is replete with instances of wholesale massacre of people and total destruction of cities. We could avoid such fate.
TO BE CONTINUED
written by Archpagan , August 15, 2010
I have already completed my post. But, only a part is being shown here. Inability to use note of interrogation may be excused please.
written by sangram , August 21, 2010
Hinduism is not organized religion like Islam,there are many school of philosophy co-exist peacefully.They are open to discussion on religion through logical point of view,Majority of Hindus don't follow bookish approach to religion,hating other religion is not only way of proving loyalty to your own religion,in every religion there is always scope for improvement with change of time.
Caste system may have its merit & demerit but stratification is natural sociological process that exist in every society.The caste based superiority s not practiced my
modern Hindus it will sooner be past.
I firmly of view that the nature is inspiration for human creativity and it is full of diversity.India as society has practiced same diversity that why many faith co-exist.Pakistan is artificially created nation while India was carved by nature through boundaries of mountains & river.
Caste system may have its merit & demerit but stratification is natural sociological process that exist in every society.The caste based superiority s not practiced my
modern Hindus it will sooner be past.
I firmly of view that the nature is inspiration for human creativity and it is full of diversity.India as society has practiced same diversity that why many faith co-exist.Pakistan is artificially created nation while India was carved by nature through boundaries of mountains & river.
Write comment
