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Why Aisha Likely Poisoned Muhammad, Not a Jewish Woman, Part 1

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In this article, I tried to present my analytical view about the followers of Muhammad and the tradition about Muhammad’s death, widely propagated by Muslims that a Jewish woman at Khaibar had poisoned him. The story goes like this: a Jewish woman, captured in Muhammad attack of Khaibar, was put on the duty for preparing the meal, and she had put poisoned meat in Muhammad's and his companions' meal to take revenge for the murder of her husband, sons and brothers by Muhammad and his Jihadi companions.

This study will reveal that the truth about Muhammad’s murder may be different; his own wife Aisha might have had killed him.

Abu Hurraira, a companion of Prophet Muhammad, entered the fold of Islam after his conquest of Mecca in 630 C.E., and became very close to Muhammad. He is well known for narrating many sayings of Muhammad, who shared with Abu Hurraira many confidentialities, which he had kept hidden from his other companions and dear ones. For example, there is a famous incident regarding the confiscation of the state of Fadak by first Caliph Abu Bakar, allegedly gifted by Muhammad to his daughter Fatima. Soon after the prophet died, Caliph Abu Bakar confiscated the state of Fadak from Fatima and her husband Ali. When Fatima came to know about it, she quarreled with Abu Bakar, but Abu Hurraira informed that he learnt from her father that Prophets do not enjoy inheritance by law. This story tells us that Muhammad, the founder of Islam, kept many things hidden from his closest beloveds.

There's another incident in Shia tradition, also recorded by Abu Hurraira (father of cats, who narrated many Hadiths that are not verifiable through any means). A Shia scholar narrating the story that goes as below:

In the open market, a poor Muslim was trying to sell his onions, but no passers-by were buying his merchandise. This made the poor Muslim vender worried. He found his way to Abu Hurraira, as he was considered very pious and literate amongst Muhammad's companions. He told Abu Hurraira about his business situation; and that he was worried that his onion might start rotting if not sold.

Abu Hurraira said, “It’s not a problem; if you agree to share half of your profit with me out of your business, I can make your onions sell.” Poor vender had to agree to his terms.

Soon after, Abu Hurraira started to speak out loud in street to catch people's attention by saying: “O people, do you know what our master Muhammad said?

People in astonishment looked at each other and said, “No.”

Abu Hurraira replied, “Our master said that anyone who will eat onions today, he will be the first to enter heaven.”

All onions were quickly sold and the vender was very happy.

When Aisha, Prophet Muhammad's child-wife, came to know about this matter, she called Abu Hurraira and asked him, “When Muhammad said that on the day any who eat onions will go to heaven?”

To puzzle her, he retorted, “Prophet didn’t claim either that prophets don’t have their heirdom”, and added, “this is our wish wherever we navigate the sail or drag it to any direction”, puzzling her further.

This is a very old, nasty and deceptive tactic, which Muslims use to cover up their tarnished actions; they hurl their lies and irrational reasons to others, especially non-Muslims. Muslims thought that they will hide the real facts forever and their made-up history will be played out on the world-stage; they think others are stupid and would not be able to get the facts. Muslim historians had no clue to the fact that the history they left behind itself is not good enough to fool others. Muslim historians and hadith compilers themselves made problems for their own selves.

Treatise on Islam by many Muslim scholars raises too many problematic questions in the mind of rational readers to which Muslims have few answers. The list of such problematic questions keeps growing larger as Islamic historical and theological texts are being investigated by meticulous researchers.

The incident of Muhammad's massacre at Khaibar of many innocent Jews of Banu Nadir tribe, whom he had earlier deported from Medina, is undoubtedly true. Muhammad's biographers and hadith collectors narrate that he surrounded the Jews at Khaibar and besieged them. When they were defeated and surrendered, he ordered killing of the captured Jewish men above the age of puberty. At dinner time, a Jew woman, who was given the responsibility of cooking food, added poison in the meal. Muhammad and his companions started eating their meal. Soon one of his companions collapsed and died on the spot. Muhammad had eaten only a small part of the poisoned morsel. He threw it away and grabbed the Jewish woman, and asked if she had added poison in the food. She confessed and was put to death by Muhammad.

The event occurred in 629 C.E., but Muhammad died in 632. No history book gives any evidence that Muhammad fell sick or his health deteriorated from the day he consumed the poisoned food until his death. In these 3-4 years, Muhammad was in his good health, leading many Jihad wars. He fell seriously ill only during the last few days of his life, which eventuated into his death.

It is also ridiculous of Muslim historians to suggest that their master would give the responsibility of preparing the meal to a person, whose husbands, sons, brothers and fathers had been killed a while earlier by him.

Aisha and Muhammad

Both the Quran and Islamic history give strong evidence that Aisha, who was married to Muhammad at the age of 9, was never happy with her husband---over 8 times older than her at the time of contracting the marriage. There are evidences that Aisha and Muhammad both quarreled with each other over many issues so much so that Muhammad was on the verge of divorcing all his wives, just because of Aisha and Hafsa, who had shared the truth about Muhammad's lecherous habit with their co-wives. On another occasion, Muhammad had separated himself from Aisha on the suspicion of sleeping with another young disciple of his.

As Muhammad was very old and a fatherly figure to Aisha, the young and immature Aisha certainly could never like and love him in a romantic way. When young Aisha was dreaming for her charming prince of her age, with whom she could play, do emotional talking and share jokes---she had sleep with a stinky old man. She probably was not happy of her parent’s decision either that they arranged her marriage with the person nearly of her father’s age. For about nine years, she bore Muhammad’s presence and sexual oppression.

So, it is possible that when Muhammad had become too much of annoyance and even older, she planned to get rid of old Muhammad, nearing death. Murdering Muhammad was only way Aisha could get rid of him. Her plans for killing Muhammad, however, might have been instigated when Muhammad was showing greater interest in Maria, a Coptic slave of exquisite beauty. The fact that only Maria amongst his dozen wives had borne him a child named Abraham—this might have had made Maria a favorite to Muhammad. He started cheating his wives, whereby he would send them away so that he could go to bed with Maria in their absence.

Muhammad's accusation on Aisha of adultery

Aisha's hatred and bitterness of Muhammad had certainly intensified after he accused her of adultery---a story, supported by both the Quran and historical texts. Aisha, a young and immature girl, was certainly easy to be manipulated by Muhammad's young companions. When a rumour about her sleeping on one occasion with a young companion of Muhammad became popular in Medina, he lost his interest in her. He sent her back to her parent’s house. Ali, the close cousin and husband of Muhammad's daughter Fatimah, had eagerly advised him to divorce her.

Allah (aka Muhammad) maintained silence for about a month as the scandal kept on spiraling. It was important for Muhammad not to alienate Abu Bakar, who had many trusted friends and a strong power-base. At the same time, he had to somehow prove that Aisha was innocent, not to tarnish his prophetic credential. So, only after about a month had passed and Aisha's menses returned, proving that she hadn't fallen pregnant from the alleged adulterous affair that Allah sent down verses to declare that the rumour was false and Aisha was innocent. Thus, she returned to Muhammad's house (see the story: Rumors of Aisha's Adultery and Allah's Silence and  Muhammad's Capture of Beautiful Slave-girl Juwairiya & Aisha's Adulterous Night-out).

Nonetheless, Aisha's father Abu Bakar, the first caliph of Islam, grew a grudge against Muhammad, because he brought shame and insult to his daughter and family by accusing her of adultery. Muhammad's absolving Aisha of the accusation was not good enough to assuage Abu Bakar's hatred toward him, not enough to pacify him. He certainly wanted to take revenge of this humiliation from Muhammad, whom he had supported utmost in his darkest hours. For this reason, Abu Bakar also probably encouraged Aisha to murder her husband, and also that he confiscated the state of Fadak from Ali and Fatimah as revenge.

A 'cold war' between Muhammad and Abu Bakar began to appear after the incident, and he perceived that some confederations had developed between Abu Bakar and his associate to conspire against him. So, he stopped trusting Abu Bakar, Umar and others, who were close associates. Then on, he adopted a new strategy and started focusing on and supporting his son-in-law, Ali.

Umar bin Al-Khatab

Umar, the second caliph of Islam, was well-known for his rowdy and arrogant behavior, and often disagreed with Muhammad’s close companions and stayed besides Abu Bakar. It is well known that Umar behaved in a very rude manner with Muhammad when he signed the Treaty of Hudaybia with the Quraish.

The reason Umar got infuriated with Muhammad was because his daughter Hafsa, one of Muhammad's wives, caught him red handed with his slave-girl Maria in her Hafsa's bed, after he had sent Hafsa to her father Omar's house that he wanted to see her. Despite Muhammad’s best efforts to calm Hafsa down, she started shouting and went back to her father’s house; she told everyone about his lecherous husband.

When she told Aisha of Muhammad's lechery, they ganged up and started insulting Muhammad. Muhammad, though guilt-stricken, took a macho approach by refusing to sleep with his wives for their berating of him. However, the truth was probably that he quit sleeping only with Aisha and Hafsa, who had shown strong displeasure with him over the incident, and he might have feared threats or physical on his life from them.

Accordingly, an anti-Muhammad pact was formed, comprised mainly of Abu Bakar, Umar, Uthman, Talha and Saad bin abi Waqas. Muhammad knew he had been trapped, thanks to his ridiculous and lecherous actions; he could only prolong the drama to drag on, but could not find a way out of it. The silent breach between the two Muslim camps kept growing deeper and deeper with every passing day, but its control was neither within the power of Muhammad nor his alter-ego Allah.

Given that Muhammad led a healthy and able life for three years after the Khaibar attack, carrying no disability or ailment from the alleged poisoning incident there by the Jewish woman, it is very likely, given the enmity that existed between Muhammad and his opponents, including some of his wives---that if Muslim historians' claim of Muhammad death from poisoning is true, then it was done by someone closer to him and just before his death, not by the Jewish woman three years earlier. And we can only point fingers at Aisha, given her personal unhappiness and angst, plus her father's enmity against Muhammad.

 

>>> Read Part 1

Comments (128)Add Comment
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Ex- Muslim
written by Maya , February 17, 2011
Wow, I never knew that he died by poision, I thought he had normal death.
every day i found out new thing about this killer, lunatic.
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2 M. A. Kan
written by Machmoed , February 17, 2011
Great story M. A. Khan, the lies are been uncovered! This could not be the messeneger of the truth/souce/God/Allah.
0
...
written by Abu Taleb , February 17, 2011
I think, most of the stories about Muhammad are lies. It is stupid if we try to uncover the truth from lies.

We should use the stories of Muhammad just to show the muslims who believe the stories that the Muhammad character they believe was evil and Islamic teaching is evil and stupid, not to "analyze" and make as if it really happened.
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Who done it ?
written by balam , February 17, 2011
To malign the Jews,the Muslims could have made up a lie as many other lies.Mr.Khan's story is more believable.According to one Hadith,Aisha claims that it was her ignorance and her youth that contributed to his death while having sex with her.She blamed herself for not stopping him for reaching the climax which caused his cardiac arrest.The poisoning by Aisha along with errotic sex was a good allibi.
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After years of being sex-slave to and raped by Mohammed - should we be surprised?
written by Katharina Sri (ex Noor Aza) , February 17, 2011
If the unfortunate Aisha who was raped from 9 years old (but wed to Mohammed at 6 years old) did not go feel anger towards this old Arabic sexual pervert rapist Mohammed (he was 50); I would find that unnatural! But I suspect, Mohammed, who keep on raping so many women/girls including conquest captives, finally was punished with sexually transmitted disease, SYPHILIS - thus is why he's visual image prohibited; he probably looked like a ravaged wild Satanic beast near the end of his life! And I thank Our Lord Jesus Christ for that punishment to this wild Satanic beast rapist and mass murderer of the Jews, Mohammed, if it's true!
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.......
written by Machmoed , February 17, 2011
It's about understanding and acknowlodging the truth.
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Reasonable explanation!
written by Guy Macher , February 17, 2011
This analysis sounds reasonable. However, Mo did not wait to have sex until Aisha was 9! That is lunar years. In solar years, it is only 8 years 8 months and 3 weeks. Just want to set the record straight.

Mohamed was a criminal psychopath. Islam: pure evil.

Great article.
0
...
written by duh_swami , February 17, 2011
Maybe he was not poisoned at all...maybe he died of an ill spent youth...It would seem he was an epileptic...I'm not sure when the symptoms were first noticed...of course his companions would not know about epilepsy...If they did they thought the afflicted person was possessed by gods or devils...It's possible that Mohammad had a slow developing brain disease (tumor?) that eventually killed him...Epilepsy was an early symptom, as well as his delusional mental deterioration that caused Aisha to exclaim that Mohammad saw things she did not see...and in another place where it is claimed that Mohammad said he did things that he did not...It's also possible that Aisha or someone did poison him to speed up the process of his demise...Did he get poisoned twice, one by a 'Jewess' that didn't work, and later another by his wife Aisha that did work? I don't know, I wasn't there, but something unusual happened to cause Mohammads death...
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WELL DONE MR.KHAN FOR REVEALING THE TRUTH
written by Mirza Ghalib , February 17, 2011
The various biographies of Muhammad, what we heard from the victorious muhammadan’s are full of Taqiyya and confusing. But if one can READ the AHADITH (Specially the SAHIH AL-BUKHARI, which the muslim considered very authentic, next to the Quran) page by page, it is crystal clear that out of two camps ( Ayisha’s camp & Ali’s camp) to succeed Muhammad, Ayisha’s camp was the best in plotting and achieved their targets easily.
After reading these ahadith one can come to an easy conclusion that Muhammad was murdered by Aisha and her gang, simply just to grab his throne, (for the same reason Muhammad killed thousands of innocents). Tit for tat.
One of such ahadith which brother BALAM had revealed about Aisha’s statement that “It is her ignorance…………..which killed Muhammad”.
Similar to the above hadith, here are few more hadiths out of several, which requires the reader’s attention. Aisha, (Ummul momineen/mother of believers) explains about the last few minutes of Muhammad:-
1/ Muhammad’s head was in-between her bosom .
2/ Her saliva was in Muhammad’s mouth.
3/ The refusal of pen and paper by Umar, Ayisha and her gang to Muhammad to write the name of his successor (Probably, Ali – his son-in-law).
4/ Muhammad doubted and got wild about the medicine(Probably the poison), which they(Aisha’s gang) put in his mouth without his consent by force.
THE BEST AND THE ONLY WAY TO COMEOUT FROM ISLAM IS TO STUDY THEIR OWN AUTHENTIC BOOKS:- THE QURAAN AND AHADITH.

0
No miracles...
written by duh_swami , February 17, 2011
One thing that is not recorded about Mohammad's death was the conspicuous absence of both Allah and Gabriel...They didn't show up to give him a grand send off or even just to say good-bye...No golden chariot no miracles, nothing...After all they meant to each other, you would think Allah would at least send flowers...After a few days of waiting for a miracle of some sort, and nothing happened, the corpse was getting a little odorous, so they buried him...Under his bed, in his house, according to one source...The house has been destroyed by the Saudi's but the body is probably still there...
0
Nice article again!!
written by Reed Wilson. , February 17, 2011
Mohammad Khan. Your article provides nice reading.
You write "The story goes like this: a Jewish woman, captured in Muhammad attack of Khaibar, was put on the duty for preparing the meal".
You are right Mr. Khan it nothing more than a story. We dont find reliable history of 7th century.
The Jewish literature is almost silent about Khaibar and the war.
According to Jewish encyclopedia," Khaibar was the name of entire province those days. a Jewish tribe, the Banu Naḍir, deserted the muslim camp and sought refuge in the town of Khaibar. This warlike tribe exhorted its coreligionists there to resist in the event of his besieging them".
"Mohammed invaded the district in 628, and the Jews retreated to their fortresses, where they bravely defended themselves. Their leaders were Kinanah ibn Rabi', a Naḍirite, and Marḥab, of Himyarite origin. Finally, the Jews capitulated, but they were allowed to remain on paying a certain tribute".
I didn’t find the name of most sought after Safiya, the name of her father Hyye and the name of her husband who was allegedly murdered.
Abu Taleb is absolutely right in saying "I think, most of the stories about Muhammad are lies. It is stupid if we try to uncover the truth from lies".
Since it is all fiction I consider any harm in discussing it like we discuss various aspects of 'Murder Gonzago' in Shakespeare's Hamlet.
She might have had poisoned him.
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Correction in above post.
written by Reed Wilson. , February 17, 2011
Please read as:
Since it is all fiction I don't consider any harm in discussing it like we discuss various aspects of 'Murder Gonzago' in Shakespeare's Hamlet.
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To balam
written by Archpagan , February 17, 2011
In the act of attaining orgasm Aisha squeezed life out of Muhammad's. It is quite possible. I have wife who is 10 years younger but 20-Kg heavier than me. I know what it can be.
0
To MA Khan
written by Usman , February 17, 2011
You kuffar will have to answer Allah for spreading lies about his most beloved Prophet and the person Prophet loved most Hazrat Ayesha.
0
Where's the treasure?
written by duh_swami , February 17, 2011

Kinanah ibn Rabi'...That's right, he's the fictitious character who buried a fictitious treasure that the fictitious Mohammad dug up a fictitious part of it and then tortured the fictitious Kinanah for the rest, then had a fictitious fire built on his fictitious chest, and later had him beheaded fictitiously...Isn't this story just a little toooo fictitious?
0
Hey usman, don't threaten us with your god, the Devil!
written by Katharina Sri (ex Noor Aza) , February 17, 2011
Hey usman, don't threaten us with your god, the Devil! You expect us, civilized beings to kneel down like SLAVES to your creator of Islam, the Arabic Pedophile rapist (Aisha was a nine year old girl when your pervert rapist over 50 year old Mohammed raped her, for goodness sake!), robber, slave-owner (including sexual slaves such as young Jewish captive girls), and mass murderer of the Jews, Mohammed, in order to construct pure Arabian kingdom and legitimize his and his tribe’s evil Arabic socio-cultural practises?! Thus only the Devil can be Mohammed's god!
0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , February 17, 2011
To Usman. In your post to Mr. Khan you write "You kuffar will have to answer Allah for spreading lies about his most beloved Prophet and the person Prophet loved most Hazrat Ayesha".

Who is your 'most beloved prophet'? Allah tells and ask believers to declare that we do not differentiate among messengers. Did he tell you that he was his most beloved? Do you have some other book, other than Quran which you follow?

Who is loved most Hazrat Ayesha? Do you know the names of his wives and the rating of their love with messenger of Allah? Will Allah ask we 'kuffar' about H.Ayesha also?

Usman if you know that he was most beloved of Allah and she was most beloved of the messenger of Allah, please tell me how you know that; From Quran or from where?
0
M.A. Khan
written by fineliving56 , February 17, 2011
Please ...there is any way you could give names or numbers of the Haddeeth or sunna that tells about Abu Hurayrra ...I do not think you mentioned them unless I missed it ….just to not to give someone like Reed and Uthman an excuse to call it lies ….which they thinks it is all lies anyway …but no matter ...
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Reed Are u among the kufar Usman is refering here?
written by Clement- Islam-Watch Pastor , February 17, 2011
Reed I don't think it is proper for you to begin to attack your prober publicly here. Or have you join us in the attack of Islam? I know your own version of Islam is not yet in this world. But Usman is simply defending his prophet and Islam just as you are doing here. What is the difference?
0
Reed" correction please
written by Clement- Islam-Watch Pastor , February 17, 2011
Sorry Reed I mean to say your brother in the Post above which should read thus :"Reed I don't think it is proper for you to begin to attack you brother publicly here"
0
Mohammad's Mental Capacity
written by Amboyduke , February 17, 2011
Has anyone ever heard that Mo died of advanced syphilis?
I read that somewhere?
It would also explain some of his rantings and ravings as insanity takes hold as big chunks of his brain are hollowed out as the syphilis goes about it's business?
Just wondering.
0
Storehouse of all sicknesses
written by non believer , February 18, 2011
Muhammad was a storehouse of all sicknesses. He was mentally sick, Epileptic, Sex maniac, war monger and what not. He left behind a tumor called Islam which has grown like cancer. It has to be Gammaknifed to save the world.
0
Muhammed was the poison
written by logic , February 18, 2011
even if the poor child poisoned him ........wats the big deal ......believe me ....a 54 old leacherous Muahmmed screwing a poor child Aisha ........was a poison bigger and now it .......is the biggest the POISON .....because it is the sunna ......and muslims should be ashmed of themselves .........yes ASHMED .....this is what they speak of as a prophet ............my dog is better ........oh yes he is .....ACTIONS COUNT not WORDS
0
2 Clement + Reed
written by Machmoed , February 18, 2011
You're both right. You just have to believe and understand. Jesus was sent by God, like Muhammad. It's the same. What is not the same is what people think they understand of it. Now the truth has come to both of you. Won't you not believe in what is right?

Helleluja/Subhana Allah!
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@Machmoed
written by logic , February 18, 2011
Respectfully we cannot ........compare A JESUS and A MUHAMMED in the same category. JESUS, even stripped of all his divinity still can stand tall on the basis of his actions ..........but MUHAMMED absolutely depends on his divinity to justify his actions ...............its a BIG difference ...its HUGE ..........i am not a christian before you accuse me of being one ......and biased ......but ...christ inspires ..and muhamed is just so full of yuk ....BIG difference
0
...
written by vbv , February 18, 2011
Islam is just a fabrication , a pack of lies , no evidence can be ascertained for any of its holy shits... Muhamad was a clever goon, a gangster who knew that if you use religion and put the fear of 'god' , most human-beings would easily succumb to it. He and his other goons took the arab deity Allah and fashioned him after the jewish monster "Yahweh" and copied the jewish barbarity from the Old Testament ,especially the Exodus and Duetronomy , which preaches slavery of non-jews, eye-for-an -eye and tooth-for a- tooth ,extreme intolerance of non-jews,right to murder and loot and rape any non-jew with impunity,etc kind of idealogy. Infact Muhamad claimed 'prophethood' based on such idealogies. He falsely claimed to be an illiterate ,while he was supposed to be handling the business of his first-wife 'Khadijja'. Infact, the whole of this barbaric cult is based on lies .Nothing but lies. Why so much animosity against the jews? Simple, because the jews called Muhamad's bullshits and scoffed at it . Further ,Muhamad will stand exposed if jews were to survive after him , so he has sowed the pison that exhorts muslims to exterminate the jews. The whole concept of 'prophethood' is a fraud because you have to blindly believe in those charlatans about their so-called communication with the so-called "god" or his "angels". "God","Angels" ,"Devils","Jinns",absolute bullshits from the imaginations of these scoundrels and charlatans who made a good living out of the fears and gullibility of the masses without having to work honestly ,living off others' hard labour. Take the bullshit of religion out of this world and you will definitely have a saner and peaceful existence.
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Of what can you be sure? Let Reed question and contradict fellow-Muslims!
written by Demsci , February 18, 2011
Usman, when you were a child, and were taken care of lovingly by your parents, you believed the Islamic stories and they were buried in your subconscious.

But can you be sure your loved ones and revered imams did not lie to you then? Perhaps because they were being lied to before and were as uncritical as you appear to be to the official version of Islam? You don't have a personal communication with "Allah", you can't be sure what he'll do or even whether the very plausible speculation of Mohammed A. Khan is NOT the real truth.

Clement, I think it's great when Reed Wilson questions and contradicts fellow-Muslims! Countless times Muslims have told US how wrong we were when we discussed Islam's laws, tenets, meaning and influence. Like explaining to us that death-penalty for apostasy is not really Islamic.

But all the time we were showing them that our interpretations of Islam were exactly the same as those of countless Islamic scholars, leaders and followers. But Islam-apologists do not DARE to question and contradict them!!! Because of the difference in reaction coming from Islam-critics and Muslims to questioning and contradiction.

So let Reed Wilson do it as he much as dares!!! Let everything he doubts and contradicts about what our side writes, but also is believed by countless of his fellow-Muslims, be used by him to question and contradict THEM, not US.
0
Logic you are right and can see why your name is logic
written by Clement- Islam-Watch Pastor , February 18, 2011
There are people come here and claim that they are logical but you when you examine them you discover that they are not rational. Logical people are suppose to be rational and objective in their assessment of things. Tell me on what bases can somebody compare Jesus and Mohammed, Or Allah and Yahweh even when it was clared that Muhammad drafted Yahwah into the scam because Yahweh was known to purnish evil doer there and then even physically, just to compel obedience to his command. Yet not even one example was ye able to demsotrate the divine power of his Allah. Thanks for your defence of Christ even though you are not his disciple but can use your brain right.
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to fineliving
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , February 18, 2011
there are countless hadiths that narrated by abu Hurraira and chose by Sahih Bukhari and other prominent hadith compilers.
I couldn't understand your message, either you are asking me about the conversation between Aisha and Huraira which I posted in my article, or other recorded sayings of Muhammad which narrated by huraira.

Have a good day!

Mohammad.A.Khan
0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , February 18, 2011
Clement. I hope Usman will answer me.

Kuffar are the people who reject. I am a servant who obeys.

What if there is no difference?
0
@clement
written by logic , February 18, 2011
Clement ...christ is natural ..muhamud is enforced ...............thats my logic ..........i am no christian believe me ...but ..if i want be with some good people i will want christ as my brother ..........and sorry muslims but you muhammed ........................................................................he is so mad mad mad .........muhammed is mad ....thats it ........how dare this puke of devil even try to preach about god ............muhammed ...was okay till one point of time but the pressure of mecca got to him and he became a super maniac ....and believe 1.4 billion muslims are not normal if they believe in muhammed ...yes 1.4 billion or 1 muslim or 100 muslims or even 1.4 trillion muslims are JUST A NUMBER ..............TRUTH IS ...and thats it
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To Muhammad A Khan
written by Archpagan , February 18, 2011
Perhaps, she wanted to know the number and names of Hadithis which quote or mention Abu Hurraira as an authority.
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2 Logic
written by Machmoed , February 18, 2011
That is indeed logical. These Person's cannot be the same.
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2 Clement
written by Machmoed , February 18, 2011
Clement, you say, you believe in Christ. Would you recognize Him when he arrives? How?
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Reed, Usman cannot answer you. You are the only come here and staput in IW even when all your arguement and ports are crushed
written by Clement- Islam-Watch Pastor , February 18, 2011
How many Islamist that do come here do stayput to answer kufar questions and objections to the cult religion? You only remain defiant and compromising at times to your faith just to see if someone will agree with you but none. Usman like the likes of Fatima,etc who come to cry faul and run away because they cannot stand the humuliation of their prophet and the Quran which they cherish so much as to lay their lives for it. But treat Usman gentlely because not every Muslim can have your own kind of heart that dont take offence even when your prophet and Quran are rubished.
0
...
written by duh_swami , February 18, 2011
Reed does not contradict, he attempts to correct...The problem is that he does as Jesus accused the Pharisees of doing... 'straining the gnat while swallowing the camel'...The camel in this case is the Quran...You can discard hadith and you still end up with an evil abusive religion, based on a evil abusive book...
Allah orders Muslims to suspend everything that makes a human noble, especially when applying punishments, or conducting jihad...Allah destroys conscience...an example...

Quran 24:2 Yusuf AliThe woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, - flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by God, if ye believe in God and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment

'Let not compassion move you'...What is the condition of a human mind that has no compassion?

This comes from the book of Allah that Reed advocates, with his corrections...But if he believes in Allah, he can't correct him...Allah destroys human conscience, as shown above... Reed cannot fix that, and neither can repeated doses of the substance that made them mentally ill in the first place...The Quran...
0
Hey Machmoed, don't twist so cunningly as if the evil Mohammed is the same as our God, Jesus!
written by Katharina Sri (ex Noor Aza) , February 18, 2011
Hey Machmoed, - you're so cunning by trying to claim Mohammed and Jesus were sent by the same God, and yet claim to be an atheist! The Arabic Pedophile rapist, robber, slave-owner (including sexual slaves such as young Jewish captive girls), and mass murderer of the Jews, Mohammed, in order to construct pure Arabian kingdom and legitimize his and his tribe’s evil Arabic socio-cultural practises, was sent by 'God'?! No, Mohammed was sent by the Devil, who is really Mohammed's god! And if you want to know how we would recognize our Christian God, Lord Jesus Christ when He comes again, read the NT, because it's our God who will make that decision and judgement who will recognize Him, not us! In Revelation 19:9 Then the angel said to me, "Write this: Happy are those who have been invited to the wedding feast of the Lamb". And the angel added, "these are the true words of God."

Amen to that.
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Hey vbv, between God-hating Socialists Hitler, Stalin and Mao, they've butchered around 30 million innocent human beings especially Jews and Christians!
written by Katharina Sri (ex Noor Aza) , February 18, 2011
Don't lie as if Islam and Judeo-Christianity are founded by the same God! No, Islam is created by the Arabic Pedophile rapist, robber, slave-owner (including sexual slaves such as young Jewish captive girls), and mass murderer of the Jews, Mohammed, in order to construct pure Arabian kingdom and legitimize his and his tribe’s evil Arabic socio-cultural practises; whilst Judeo-Christianity is founded on our shared God's SALVATION for all humanity from all kinds of evilness! Evil people have hijacked Judeo-Christianity but our God did not teach us to love evilness unlike in Islam! And our God of the Old Testament was a very angry God at evilness especially at the continuous persecution and slavery of the Jewish people especially of His righteous believers since Abraham’s days; thus He allowed self-defence by the freed Jews against evil PREDATORS but our same God in the new covenant in the New Testament is being forgiving and wants all His mankind creation to be saved but with the condition that they repent from committing evil because He still hates evilness. By the way, another lie from you; here's the real truth instead - between God-hating Socialists Hitler, Stalin and Mao, they've butchered around 30 million innocent human beings especially Jews and Christians!
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...
written by Reed Wilson. , February 18, 2011
Demsci. You write "Clement, I think it's great when Reed Wilson questions and contradicts fellow-Muslims."

I just wanted to know from Usman that from where he got 'most beloved' prophet of Allah and and most 'beloved wife'. You are over too generous in calling it great.

On his answer depends his status of 'fellow-Muslim'.

If he tells me the source I will consider him most belovedest prophet and the most belovedest wife. I will make superlative if I dont find.

But Demsci, people come and go. I cannot forget Shibli Zaman, Navid Anjum and Mukhtar Naeemi. I wish if they were here.

You write "Like explaining to us that death-penalty for apostasy is not really Islamic".

Isn't it happy situation? There is no death penalty of any offense in Quran. I have not seen. If it escaped my attention, its a different thing. Those stupids who invented DP didn't realize the fate of non-muslims accepting Islam. They are also divorcing their religion!!

I am not the one who can accept, reject or contradict about Islam. I just match with Quran and tell that it is according to Islam or other wise. I have limits.
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Machmoed: Yes I will recognise christ when he comes
written by Clement- Islam-Watch Pastor , February 18, 2011
My friend let me tell you what the scriptures says about Christ return in 1Thes 4:16-18“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”
Matt 24:30-31 “30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other”
1Cor 15:52 -57 “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ”.
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2 Khatarina
written by Machmoed , February 18, 2011
I'm not an Atheist. I'm a pandeist.

I meant something else. How can you compare light with shadow. What do you know of Jesus Katharina? Tell me.
Will you Recognize Him, cause everybody sais he knows Him. You tell me, Who is Jesus?
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hey machmeod, I sugget you educate yourself, reading both whole bIble and books!
written by Katharina Sri (ex Noor Aza) , February 18, 2011
So now you claim to be a pandeist or whatever - but don't try to equate that most evil Mohammed with my Lord Jesus Christ! You see machmed, if you had read the whole Bible and with rational mind, you will find out who my Christian God, our Lord Jesus Christ is. And Jesus is definitely not the God of Islam which is created by the Arabic Pedophile rapist, robber, slave-owner (including sexual slaves such as young Jewish captive girls), and mass murderer of the Jews, Mohammed, in order to construct pure Arabian kingdom and legitimize his and his tribe’s evil Arabic socio-cultural practises - the Devil is Mohammed's god! I suggest you start with these two fundamental verses, for your real education on shared Judeo-Christianity foundation, where my God of the OT is the same God of the NT as in "before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58). In Genesis 26:24 "I am the God of your father, Abraham," he said. "Do not be afraid, for I am with you and will bless you. I will multiply your descendants, and they will become a great nation. I will do this because of my promise to Abraham, my servant."
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Sin was a great invention...
written by duh_swami , February 18, 2011
Sin...Without sin I don't know where I would be today. Sin is very important, we have to have it...because without sin we don't need a savior nor big expensive buildings called Churches, or mosques...Sin keeps carpenters employed...It is great for the liquor and sex industries...A sinless world would put a lot of people out of work...The first to go would be priests, Imams, ayatollah's, reverends and anyone who preaches against sin, because they are no longer needed...Without sin, religion as we know it would disappear...The priests could no longer raise money by preying on the guilt of the sinners...They would have to get legitimate jobs...So while all these religious people call for an end to sin and sinning, they profit from it...their world would be turned upside down without it...
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Machmoed. Leave Kathrina out of your Pandeism
written by Clement- Islam-Watch Pastor , February 18, 2011
Machmoed here you come again you to tell kathrina your version of whom Jesus was according to that Archaeologist called Acharya, S and her company who said Jesus was a recreation of the Egyptians the ancient sun-god called Horus. And that the virgin birth, two fishes’ feeding miracles, working on water, 12,tribes,12 Apostles, death and resurrection are not peculiar to the Bible and Christian faith alone. That they all have astrological and mythological definition. That the Bible after all was not the truth but myth, the pigment of human imagination, a fairy tale and a creation of man. That the creation story, Abraham, Noah, Moses, was some fables, folklores, or at best they never existed including Jesus. I think that is the “gospel” you want to preach to Kathrina we are sick and tired of it. Hold your peace. I have told you that Jesus is a living legend and not only a historical figure known only in history or fiction and myths which only existed in the imagination men but alive even today changing lives for good and performing miracles as of old. So tell that to the marines. I have given you some verses above on how we Christian will recognise Jesus when he comes. Leave my sis alone
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to Duh_Swami (I liked your last comment)
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , February 18, 2011
you said, "...Sin is very important, we have to have it...because without sin we don't need a savior nor big expensive buildings called Churches, or mosques..."

It is very intelligent quote by you. I also agree with you but my concept about sin is little different. First of all, what is sin? In my opinion, our negative thinking or action has been called sin. when someone try to steal something, the first action is that they plan for it and that plan is his/her negative approach. After this, action has to take place.

My opinion is that, since I became atheist, I call it Good or Bad. I thought too much about it and finaly came to conclusion that Good is impossible without bad. Because if for example, we remove bad entirely from this world and let the Good be here, eventually, People will try to find more little bad points within the Good. Thus, Good is impossible without bad. if anyone whether prophet, god, allah no matther who, they can never bring goodness to anyone without badness. Bad is very important for the good.

Have a good day!

Mohammad.A.Khan
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Provision in Immigration Laws.
written by Reed Wilson. , February 18, 2011
Our Immigration laws should be so designed that there is a clause for Jesus Christ. Otherwise, these kings men don’t even recognize their fathers.
Even if they recognize, which they might, they will say “We respect you”. “Please sit in the lounge, have drinks or tea or coffee, but we can not allow you entering in country or leave the premises unless you show us the documents. We hope you will appreciate our limitations”
It is serious issue and should be taken up with the law makers. Christians and Muslims believe in his second or third coming. I am not sure of Hindus, Jews Buddhists etc. Jesus himself might not like to break the law of land.
It triggers me that Archpagan once contributed about descending Jesus Christ. He thought he will come at Rome. Rome or wherever, there must be proper legislation.
Our recognizing will only be an issue if we were alive on his coming. Clement may be there.

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to Reed
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , February 18, 2011
You said, "...Please sit in the lounge, have drinks or tea or coffee..." Thank you, I totally forgot to have a cup of tea before your reminder. I am going to have a cup of tea.

Have a good day(but after leaving Islam and saying Muhammad is not prophet but pretender)

Mohammad.A.Khan
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I feel sorry for Christ
written by fineliving56 , February 18, 2011
I guess a lot of people going to be disappointed when Christ does not show up….is it not enough what happened to him when he left this cruel …cruel world [if he ever excited ]…I mean the most violent death any humen could imagine ..I agree ...Christ was nothing like Muhammad ….of what we have read about him from all sources we have available he is peaceful humen being who never killed any one ...Now Muhammad on the other hand …he not only killed his enemies in his time …no he is still killing in the name of him …he left a manuscript [Quran]to who,when,where,how to kill directed to his followers …so for 1400 years this has been happening …so how many he killed directly and indirectly ? … countless ….Muhammed In my book ,is the worst mass killer in the world and Hitler is a light weight in comparison .
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I have some question?
written by fineliving56 , February 18, 2011
Why of every religion we had …the story goes like this : A MAN GOES IN TO A CAVE / MOUNTAIN …etc ….so in every case Why he stays for a while and comes out with a new religion ? why is it always A MAN ? why is he always alone ? why this MAN always expect people to take them on their word and their word only ? Why these men think [ and that exactly what happen ] that we the people [well some of us any way ] are dumb enough to believe what he said ?
Why these men think that we are dumb enough to believe this clear illogical idea : the prophet will verify the teachings [ later became books written by yet more men, it came from God and the teachings from God will verify the prophet that he is a prophet ?
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Duh-Swami, brilliant observation
written by Demsci , February 18, 2011
I also liked what you wrote Duh-Swami, a brilliant insight.

Perhaps something like that could also be said about the police really needing a certain amount of crimes to hold on to their jobs. And many docters needing a certain amount of illnesses so that they all can keep earning their salaries.

The question it seems, is; what constitutes success for clergymen, police and docters? Is it jobs well done only? Or a drastic decrease of sin, crime and illnesses?

And we can ask them all: What will you DO when you are successfull in diminishing sins, crimes and illnesses dramatically? And so many of you become superfluous? Do you even desire such a success?

Or do you perhaps subconsciously really desire the continuation of this level of sins, crimes and illnesses??? Do you perhaps fear such a success? Do you perhaps fear boredom, superfluousness, lack of work and income the most? And does this influence your performance? And who and what you really support?

Perhaps we should present mankind with a blueprint of what we could and would do with the huge resources we would free up when sins, crimes and illnesses really dramatically went down. Showing clergy, police and docters what mankind could do with real success achieved by them.
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Du_swami and Others I like your thought provoking questions and logic
written by Clement- The Islam-Watch Pastor , February 18, 2011
You could as add the following questions in probing logics what if the creator of this universe had no provision for night and day or only day or night only, what if man is made with only one leg, one hand,one eye, one ears, one man no woman or vice vissa? Have you ever imagine a world without water or land? What if in the wisdom of creator these things were necessary for the total wellbeing of man including good and evil and the right and freedom to make choice between these alternatives. what if there is no place call hell for evil doers or heaven for the righteous? What if in the wisdom of the creator the ability of man to make right decision between good and evil determines whether or not man is going live with him eternally? I could go on and on. It is because of these God revealed himself to man through the scriptures of the Jews his chosen people of revelation where he explained the origin, the purpose of his creation, his plan of redemption and the end of all things. Is it not logical that if this world has a creator, then the onus of explanation and redemption lies with him ?. He will not be a just God if we have to pay our way or work our ways back to him or to be saved because in the first place none of us had choice of coming into this world why should we be responsible for action or inaction if we are not given the opportunity to do so? But God said we can have choice of where we want to go or be in the hereafter. That is why salvation is free. God Himself pay the price he bore the consequences of our wrong choice and invites us to a free gift of salvation to be received through genuine repentance and faith in Christ whom God sent to be the propitiation for our sins (sins means our wrong choice among better alternatives). Cheers
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Sin personified.
written by Reed Wilson. , February 18, 2011
Cardinal Sin, also Jaime Lachica Sin, was a Roman Catholic Archbishop of Manila known for his instrumental role in the People Power Revolution, which toppled the regime of Ferdinand Marcos and installed Corazon Aquino as president of the Philippines.

During his reign, he was considered an influential and charismatic leader of the Filipino people having led another "people power" in 2001.

He died at the age of 76 on 21 June 2005 due to complications to the kidney as a result of diabetes.
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To duh_swami
written by Archpagan , February 19, 2011
I can not fully agree with your last post. Conceiving of the idea of sin should not be considered as the 'Original Sin'. Ancient people could not separate sin from crime. But we modern people are able to do so. A world without the concept of sin and crime would be anarchy. There is no need for a savior or deliverer, law of the Karma always takes its own course. If people understand that there is no need for saviors or deliverers.
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...
written by vbv , February 19, 2011
Harharharharhar...! What is sin? To the monotheististic nuts the greatest 'sin' is the first of the ten commandments: "Thou shalt not worship any other 'God'". This imaginery spook created by a bunch of crooked charlatans made sure that people are suppressed from questioning and logic. For the Abrahamic "god" ,be it Yahweh or Allah , the greatest sin is recognizing that there can be other "gods". Why? Because this monotheistic cults are extremely intolerant and exclusivist by nature and they do not understand the democratic or secular values but just cruel oppression. No wonder 'islamic' countries are ruled by despots because they still stick by this rotten doctrine while the jews and christians have become more secular and tolerant. In islamic countries ,'sharia' rules the roost , but ofcourse to suit the needs of the despots/mullahs who apply it where it suits them. Monotheism is irrational,fanatical ,brutally oppressive and a very convenient tool in the hands of despots/mullahs/ayatollahs,etc. In short abrahamic cults are the cause for all the wars and sufferings around the world because of their inherently immoral and barbaric nature.
Katherina Sri (ex Noor Aza) Hitler was not a socialist but a fascist, Mao and Stalin were communists ,so also PolPot,Che Guevera,,etc. These people were driven by another 'religion' called communism. They wer not rationalists like Richard Dawkins,Christopher Hitchens, George Bernard Shaw, Bertrand Russel,Sam Harris, Dan Dennet, Steven Weinberg, Richard Feynman,or even Percy Bysse Shelley who were all atheists and great humanists. And there are thousands more like them who are afraid to come out because of persecution by religious fanatics, especially the monotheistc cults of the west Asian origin or the Abrahamic cults. These people have not harmed anyone,far from murdering any other human being,unlike mullahs and imams who call for the blood of anyone who dare criticise their barbaric cult. Ofcourse christianity and judaism have reformed a great deal ,unlike in their past during the dark ages in Europe when it would have been indistinguishable from islam. Mind you more than 80 million hindus have been slaughtered by the muslims who ruled India for almost 900 years. This far outweighs anything else in the history of humanity .
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I like Satan
written by non believer , February 19, 2011
Though I believe man created both God and Satan, I think without Satan creationists wouldn't have a ground to stand on. If he had not enticed Adam, these blokes would not be here at all. Instead of worshiping Satan, they are worshiping God who prevented Adam and Eve copulating. But for Satan they would still be going round trees like a Hindi movie. Thank Satan they ate the apple(me not believing the cock and bull story is another matter). I wish I go to hell if there is one, so that I don't meet Muhammad,Osama and others. Sin is great so is hell. Logic is right. Both Muslims and Christians are brain washed zombies. Katherina Sri is an example. She is verbally violent like Muslims. But Christ was a good man. He had morals which Muhammad lacked. But the whole concept of prophets going to mountains/caves and then telling they are messengers of God is Bullshit.
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...
written by vbv , February 19, 2011
There is no "god" because this spook does not exist. No godman/saint/prophet/messenger could give any evidence of this male chauvinistic ,megalomaniacal and imaginery creature called 'god' ,except in tales ,unsubstantiated 'miracle tales' that no one has ever seen. Be it Muhamad splitting the moon or Moses splitting the Red sea,or Noah building a boat big enough to accommodate all specimens of the animal kingdom(which is indeed a very , very tall order ,indeed). All of them are far worse than any stupid fairy tale ,be it Rumpelstiltskin, Cindarella, Snowwhite and the seven dwarfs,etc. Atleast most fairy tales are far less malevolent and have some moral behind them . Religious fairy tales are irrational , only inspire awe and fear from a socalled spook called "god" who is cruel, sadistic and with a never-ending bad attitude, self-seeking, craving for adulation, narcissistic,selfish, brutally intolerant.... infact all the attributes of a human despot - and the biggest laugh is that this spook with all this extremely negative traits of a despot is supposed to be "all-merciful". Hahahahahahahaha!.. Some mercy indeed ,this spook has!
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2 Reed
written by Machmoed , February 19, 2011
You wrote: It is serious issue and should be taken up with the law makers. Christians and Muslims believe in his second or third coming. I am not sure of Hindus, Jews Buddhists etc. Jesus himself might not like to break the law of land.
It triggers me that Archpagan once contributed about descending Jesus Christ. He thought he will come at Rome. Rome or wherever, there must be proper legislation.
Our recognizing will only be an issue if we were alive on his coming. Clement may be there.


Thank you, you are a believer, one of the Moettaqoon! Tell me Reed Am i telling the truth?

You know religion sais they will be blinded and He will come as a thief in the night!

Tell me Reed, Am i telling the truth?

Thank you
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...
written by vbv , February 19, 2011
Monotheistc spooks are immature , given to throwing tantrums like a demented child, and they are reclusive. They are afraid to come out and face intelligent humans, instead their adherents carry out dreadful acts of terror,murder,massacreand plundering to inspire fear and submission. It is the fanatical adherents who do all these barbaric acts ,supposedly at the behest of these superspooks. Why can't these superspooks show their power directly? They cannot because they do not exist ,or they are plainly impotent. Ofcourse fanatics of these cults would come to the rescue of this non-existing impotent "god" and point out natural disastewrs, earthquakes as the "punishments" meted out. That is indeed a very big joke! What about nuclear bombs? or chemical weapons , aircrafts,missiles etc. ? Did these spooks have any knowledge of them. No , otherwise these spooks would have been the firsty to use it on "their own 'creations'". They did not have mobile phones, CDs,DVDs, automobiles,electronic gadgets,computers,internet,etc. These spooks are the products of the charlatans of their times ,be it Moses in the 11 century BCE, Christ, or Muhamad in 7th century CE and that is what they best exemplify: they had no knowledge of what was to come in the 20th,21st. century CE and thereafter. This certainly shows that to believe in such bullshits,trashy craps is an insult to human intelligence, insul;t to knowledge and science and progress.
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...
written by vbv , February 19, 2011
Above all it is an insult to human civilisation -Continuing from the above posting.
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Mr.
written by 3X , February 19, 2011
written by Usman , February 17, 2011

You kuffar will have to answer Allah for spreading lies about his most beloved Prophet and the person Prophet loved most Hazrat Ayesha.

Hi Usman, you are wrong. Am I answerable to the boss in the company you work ? No because I dont work there.

So stupid Allah sure doen't have authority over me as I dont believe him, get it ?
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...
written by Reed Wilson. , February 19, 2011
You write "You know religion sais they will be blinded and He will come as a thief in the night! Tell me Reed, Am i telling the truth?

I dont know so many things. This is one thing I dont know. I said 'muslims believe'. I am not among them. So sorry Machmoed.

If he comes, laws should not stop him. Make welcoming laws.

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2 Reed
written by Machmoed , February 19, 2011
What is a muslim Reed? The exact meaning?
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VBV
written by duh_swami , February 19, 2011
Your comments are grounded in reality...I had Hindu Vedanta book called Viveka Chudanami (not sure of spelling) also called 'The Crest Jewel of Discrimination', or 'how to tell the real from the unreal'...You must have read that book, or one like it...or maybe you are a rare person to whom reality comes naturally...
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Thou shall not question...
written by duh_swami , February 19, 2011
From Vbv above...This imaginery spook created by a bunch of crooked charlatans made sure that people are suppressed from questioning and logic.

Questioning and logic lead to true knowledge...The self serving priestly types who made most everything up by misrepresentation, cannot afford questioning and logic...'The Church' called it heresy and persecuted people who strayed from the path set for them...Islam invented sharia for the same purpose, to keep the slaves and serfs in line (Thou shall not question)...The motivation? Personal power and profit...Not for the slave, but for the myth makers...Myth making for profit, by preying on the insecurity of humans...The most profitable and longest running scam in world history...If Allah is real, he must be turning over in his grave over what those charlatans have done...
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Any of Quran worshipers can answer my Questions PLEASE ...
written by fineliving56 , February 19, 2011
Especially this one [I am dying to know]….LOGICALLY.. HOW CAN MUHAMMAD SUPPOSED TO VERIFY THE QURAN AS TRUE BOOK OF GOD ,AND QURAN SUPPOSED TO VERIFT MUHAMMAD AS THE TRUE SPEAKER OF GOD ??????? I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND MY QUESTION ..MY ENGLISH DOES NOT HELP ME MAKE MY SELF CLEAR ……………. PLEASE I WANT AN ANSWER I CAN SINK MY TEETH IN TO …NON OF MY ISLAM LOVERS AROUND ME CAN ANSWER ME LOGICALLY .
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To Katharina Sri
written by Healer_999 , February 19, 2011

Why do you append your name with Sri? That too when you claim you are a Christian!

I have no problem of whether you are a Christian or Buddhist. For me any religion is better than Islam.

Another point is you are too jealous and one can see this in your posts. But, there was a time when I too was like you. It will be good if we can be more diplomatic and political.

Lastly, this website is not for glorification of Jesus or any religion. It is strictly for spreading awareness on Islam.
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To Reed
written by Healer_999 , February 19, 2011

Why don't you quit this website?

I have one suggestion for you.

Open a blog of yours and write your s**t on that blog.
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Who is a Muslim.
written by Reed Wilson. , February 19, 2011
Machmoed. So you don't agree with RW that we need a legislation for second coming.

You are asking who is a Muslim. I know you know it and just want a drill from me. I quote some verses:

3:67 Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian but he was true in faith and bowed his will to Allah's which is Islam and he joined not gods with Allah.

Abraham - who preceded Muhammad by some twenty five centuries - is the best example of a Muslim in that he totally surrendered to the will of God.

2:128 "Our Lord! make of us Muslims [Muslimeen] bowing to Thy (Will) and of our progeny a people Muslim [ummata Muslimata] bowing to Thy (Will) and show us our places for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning Most-Merciful.

2:131 "Behold! his Lord said to him: "Bow (thy will to me)" [aslima] He said: "I bow (my will) to [aslamtu] the Lord and Cherisher of the universe."

The Quran only asserts, that Abraham and Ishmael were Muslimoon/ Muslims and as such, the FATHERS of Islam but NOT of the Arabs.
(part 2 follows)


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For Machmoed.
written by Reed Wilson. , February 19, 2011
Part 2 contd. from above.

2:133 Were you witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship thy Allah and the Allah of thy fathers of Abraham Isma`il and Isaac the one (true) Allah to Him we bow (in Islam) [Muslimoona]"

2:134 "That was a People that hath passed away. They shall reap the fruit of what they did and ye of what ye do! of their merits there is no question in your case!

2:135 "They say: "Become Jews or Christians if you would be guided (to salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the religion of Abraham the true [Hanifan] and he joined not gods with Allah."

2:136 Say "We believe in Allah and the revelation given to us and to Abraham Isma`il Isaac Jacob and the Tribes [Israelites] and that given to Moses and Jesus and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord we make no difference between one and another of them and we bow to Allah (in Islam)[Muslimoon]"

Hence, according to the Quran, it should be obvious to anyone reading the above verses, that the personalities named such as Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, the Tribes, Moses, David, Solomon, the Prophets, Zakharia, Yahya, Jesus and the Apostles were either Hebrews, Israelites or Jews; all of whom believed in the one and only Allah and hence were MUSLIMS.

Most important of all is the fact, that they were ALL Muslims centuries BEFORE Muhammad and his Quran. Hence being a Muslim does not require believing that Muhammad was or is the messenger of Allah, but only that the person believes in the One and Only God.

3:64 Say: "O people of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not from among ourselves Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims (bowing to Allah's will) [Muslimoona]."

Above verses were isolated by Dr. IQ Rasooli for his outstanding article 'Who is a Muslim. It includes his commentary.

My keyboard is not typing C without pressing hard. It needs blow.

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verification …related to my earlier post
written by fineliving56 , February 19, 2011
I mean …can a man accused of a crime, write a letter of his innocence and the court supposed to except it as a proof of his innocence with no witnesses to verify it ????? is it not similar to the story of Muhammed with his Quran …….. Muhammed is the man accused and the letter is Quran …..Islam idealizers please do not ignore my Question .
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...
written by Reed Wilson. , February 19, 2011
To fineliving 56. Your question is for Quran worshiper. I follow Allah through his message contained in Quran. If you consider me competent, I say it is Allah in Quran saying that I am God, Quran is my message, originally in Arabic language which was delivered through my messenger Muhammad.

Muhammad did not verify Quran. Quran verifies itself. It is addressing mankind.


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Reed ..fine ...Allah follower…. if you want to split hairs
written by fineliving56 , February 19, 2011
who is verifying Muhammed's authenticity …he is the one who told the word of Allah and it is Quran ..right …only him was in the cave right …no witnesses right ….how do you know that Allah said that Quran saying that he is God like you said ?????…..only Muhammad is the witness …he brought the Quran and he said I am his prophet ….do you see what I am saying……I mean ...it is very clear is it not ????
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Does it not comes down to ONLY MUHAMMAD CREDIBILITY …right
written by fineliving56 , February 19, 2011
no going around it ….you trust Muhammad [ and by the way ,you Reed ,the Muhammed that we all know about from Hadeeth and Suna is not the real Muhammed …right ]……..only Muhammad that Quran is the word of Allah ..right….no one else around to verify Muhammad …right ….that is not good enough for me Reed …you answer was not satisfying in fact you did not answer the heart of the Question
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...
written by Reed Wilson. , February 19, 2011
To fineliving You write "He is the one who told the word of Allah and it is Quran ..right …only him was in the cave right …no witnesses right".

Where he 'told' all that? Where cave? We have the book right in our hands. We dont require any witness telling that it is a book. The book has several claims. One can either accept or reject them.

It is believing that matters. Muhammad was messenger as Quran says. Messengers come and go. The message remains. Now it is up to the recipients of the message to treat the message as they like.

This is not my theory. I am writing on basis of Quran finving.

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Hey machmoed, don't try to equate that most evil Mohammed with my Lord Jesus Christ!
written by Katharina Sri (ex Noor Aza) , February 19, 2011
So now you claim to be a pandeist or whatever - but don't try to equate that most evil Mohammed with my Lord Jesus Christ! You see machmed, if you had read the whole Bible and with rational mind, you will find out who my Christian God, our Lord Jesus Christ is. And Jesus is definitely not the God of Islam which is created by the Arabic Pedophile rapist, robber, slave-owner (including sexual slaves such as young Jewish captive girls), and mass murderer of the Jews, Mohammed, in order to construct pure Arabian kingdom and legitimize his and his tribe’s evil Arabic socio-cultural practises - the Devil is Mohammed's god! I suggest you start with these two fundamental verses, for your real education on shared Judeo-Christianity foundation, where my God of the OT is the same God of the NT as in "before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58). In Genesis 26:24 "I am the God of your father, Abraham," he said. "Do not be afraid, for I am with you and will bless you. I will multiply your descendants, and they will become a great nation. I will do this because of my promise to Abraham, my servant."
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2REED.The Quran has lied in Q3:67
written by Clement- Islam-Watch Pastor , February 19, 2011
Q3:67 says "Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian but he was true in faith and bowed his will to Allah's which is Islam and he joined not gods with Allah." This is a lie, if Abraham was not a jew who was he an Arab? The Bible says in Gen 14:13 " ¶ And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram." Hebrew is the language of the Jews upto today If Abraham was not a Jew why did the Bible call him Abraham the Hebrew? If Q3:67 is true then the Jews are the true Muslim because they did not join true worship of Yahweh the true God with Kaaba worship which is the idolatry of the Arabs which Mohammed join in his worship of the moon god call Allah worshipped by the Arabs long before Muhammad islamised it.

Reed you can see that there is nothing true in that verse but deceipts and lies.
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bvb, here's the proof Hitler is a God-hating Socialist! And that's the truth!
written by Katharina Sri (ex Noor Aza) , February 19, 2011
hate the truth do you vbv! Hitler was a Socialist/Communist Left - The Arab-led Muslim fanatics have always, and still is, using Socialism and Nationalist struggle to hide its Islamic-Arabic agenda, especially in the West now; see http://constitutionalistnc.tri...t/id9.html

HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST
John J. Ray (M.A.; Ph.D.)

....The Demand for Explanation The fact that so many young Germans (particular from the formerly Communist East) today still salute his name and perpetuate much of his politics is also an amazement and a deep concern to many and what can only be called the resurgence of Nazism among many young Germans at the close of the 20th century and onwards would seem to generate a continuing and pressing need to understand the Hitler phenomenon....
And let us listen to Hitler himself on the matter:
"There is more that binds us to Bolshevism than separates us from it. There is, above all, genuine, revolutionary feeling, which is alive everywhere in Russia except where there are Jewish Marxists. I have always made allowance for this circumstance, and given orders that former Communists are to be admitted to the party at once. The petit bourgeois Social-Democrat and the trade-union boss will never make a National Socialist, but the Communists always will."
Another quote:
"Of what importance is all that, if I range men firmly within a discipline they cannot escape? Let them own land or factories as much as they please. The decisive factor is that the State, through the Party, is supreme over them regardless of whether they are owners or workers. All that is unessential; our socialism goes far deeper. It establishes a relationship of the individual to the State, the national community. Why need we trouble to socialize banks and factories? We socialize human beings."
(Both quotes above are from Hermann Rauschning in Hitler Speaks, London, T. Butterworth, 1940, also called The Voice of Destruction. See e.g. here........
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Reed says it is a matter of believing that is blind faith right?
written by Clement- Islam-Watch Pastor , February 19, 2011
Because the Muhammad says he was the messager Allah and the Quran says so that settles it. No question no confirmation required. That is what is call circular reasoning. No proofs any Dick and Harry can claim that he too was a prophets of God as long as he can back it up with a recitation or a book that will also pass as a messager of Allah for Reed Wilson. Reed has a 21st Century Brain but retained the features and the reasonings of a brain that is of the 7th Century Deserts Beduine Arabs of the Saudi Arabia. Fineliving56 you must be careful trying to reasons with such a person.
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Clement …THANKS
written by fineliving56 , February 19, 2011
CIRCULER REASONING ….THAT THE WORD BEST DESCRIBE WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY TO REED ….HE STILL DID NOT GET IT ….YES .WE ARE ASKED TO BELIEVE IN MUHAMMAD JUST ON THE BASE OF MUHAMMAD WORD AND THAT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH ….NOT IN THE 21 CENTURY ANY WAY .
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Reed
written by fineliving56 , February 19, 2011
You said I do not have to believe ..I can reject ..right…..you bet your life I am rejecting it …because it a lie …because Muhammad is a lier ….because all his followers are liars ….because Quran is a lie …..because Muhammad character is in question ….I rejected as the truth as in every fiber in my being …by the way …if you say take it or leave it…. why you are trying to defend Quran and advertise about it if you do not want us to buy …reed you have spoiled goods you are trying to sell to us and we are not buying .
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Mr.
written by Truth Seeker , February 19, 2011
Shias believe that Muhammad was killed by Aisha and Hafsa. A Shia Cleric declared this in a series of videos. These are worth watching to learn about Mo's death.
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Hitler read Islamic History and Quran
written by vishunath , February 19, 2011
Hitler must have read Islamic History and Quran, and it would have instigated him that this is the only way to gain powers as Muhammad did.
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...
written by Reed Wilson. , February 19, 2011
Clement. You write "Q3:67 says "Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian but he was true in faith and bowed his will to Allah's which is Islam and he joined not gods with Allah." This is a lie, if Abraham was not a Jew who was he an Arab?

I dont see Arab in the verse 3:67. I give the text:
مَا كَانَ إِبْرَاهِيمُ يَهُودِيًّا وَلَا نَصْرَانِيًّا وَلَـٰكِن كَانَ حَنِيفًا مُّسْلِمًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

So pls. dont get exited and jump on wrong conclusions.

Believing is not blind faith Clement the Pastor. You didnt tell me your belief about the sinners if they will be consigned to flames?

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...
written by Reed Wilson. , February 19, 2011
vishunath. You write "Hitler must have read Islamic History and Quran, and it would have instigated him that this is the only way to gain powers as Muhammad did".

He mistakingly relied on unreliable 'Islamic History' and was misguided.

History should be history, not Islamic or Christian. Have you ever heard Islamic Physics and Islamic Chemistry?

We very well know that world so far has no reliable history of 7th century AD. What we have is nothing more than conjecture and fiction. He may not have read Quran which says:

وَمَا لَهُم بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ ۖ إِن يَتَّبِعُونَ إِلَّا الظَّنَّ ۖ وَإِنَّ الظَّنَّ لَا يُغْنِي مِنَ الْحَقِّ شَيْئًا

"They only follow mere conjecture which can never be a substitute for the Truth". (53:28)
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To duh_swami
written by Archpagan , February 20, 2011
It is Viveka Chudamani meaning 'heights of conscience' not Viveka Chudanami
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To fineliving 56 & Reed Wilson
written by Archpagan , February 20, 2011
To put it in legal terms, to the Muslims Koran and Muhammad have power of self attestation. However, the concept of divine Revelation is not unique to Islam. Hindus have God-incarnates, concept of which is not very different from the messenger of God. But, what sets apart Islam from others is the concept of the ever-latest messenger of God, an honor awarded unilaterally to Muhammad, effectively preventing any scope for reconciliation, synthesis and assimilation with other faith systems. Once I asked Reed about its authority. He gave some verse No. only not quoting the same. Because, I think, it was difficult even for a word-spinner like Reed to overstretch the meaning of that verse to mean that Muhammad is the ever-latest Messenger of God. Isn't that Reed?
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Fineliving, you are right!
written by Demsci , February 20, 2011
Fineliving, you are right about Circular Reasoning and Reed selling spoiled goods!

As I have said before; Reed doubts and rejects so much, tirelessly showing the burden-of-proof is on the maker of claims, even ordinary logical ones.

And yet, here he is, with circular reasoning accepting the most extraordinary claims possible, made in the Quran. And corroborated by none else.

Would we admire scientists who brilliantly used their minds on every conceivable theory but ONE, which he accepted without real proof, that was very unsure, contested, ill-supported, unproven, just because he liked that one so much?

Look, it took me a long time too, to no longer cling to the comforting thought of at least having a God and some kind of eternal afterlife, which I craved so much, and which I dreaded to lose so much.

Perhaps Reed can admit as much; that he just NEEDS his "fairy-tale" although he admits it's a gamble with low (minute to me) chances. And he has no alternative for this for him necessary hope and comfort.
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2 reed
written by vishunath , February 20, 2011
read, Hitler was not fool enough just by reading, as you said, "He mistakingly relied on unreliable 'Islamic History' and was misguided." He also would have read and got fascinated by the quran and the verses killing ex muslims (Munafiqoon) and Non muslims, repeated over and over again, in the quran.

By the way, how the hell you are denying your history of Islam? Is it because spreading truth about Islam and conflicting with quran? how did you condemned Tabri, ibn ishaq and others, that they wrote history on Islam? what do you have proof of your statment?

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Reed. The point is not about Arab but that Muhammad had lied and his Quran agreed?
written by Clement- Islam-Watch Pastor , February 20, 2011
Reed I want to assume that you have agreed that the Quran is wrong this time around on Q 3:67
You want to brush it aside by asking me about hell,Why?

Reed I have already answered you and given you my view on Hell and eternal punishment of sinners in the flames of fire of Hell. I referred you to What Muhammad or Quran said about the subject. I thought you will be excited about it at least for once I agreed with Muhammad and his Quran on a subject. The only unfortunate aspect of it all is the truth that If what he said about Hell is true then he would be the first person to be there to be followed by all those who believe and follow the teaching in his book. How do I know that? Because he said the idolaters, the polytheists will go there but he was No 1 Idolater and he instituted Idolatry to all his followers and all those worshipping Blackstone at Keaba on a daily basis even up today. He said fornicators and adulterers, murderers, terrorist and liars will be there but he instituted prostitution and multiple marriage, terrorism and tagiya as a holy thing and do you think he and his followers will escape Hell? He said the infidels will be the faggots and the firewood and fuel of Hell and that boiling hell water will be the abode and are made for the entertainment of disbelievers which I believe he must be the first partaker of such entertainment.

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to all respected readers, except reed wilson
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , February 20, 2011
it is my advice for all respected readers that they should stop corresponding with reed as he has always been trapped many times before and couldn't answer properly to the question. Hence, it is his device to jumble and switch words from here to there just to prove himself a clown.

This clown aka reed will never accept the bitter truth whatsoever. He really come to the point that Quran is changed and Muhammad was liar and pretender, through us. Now he has lost his mind and couldn't see other way than Islam which will, according to his own wit, will take him to the hell.

This loser is still appearing on this website even after he failed to answer my one question, when I asked him if abraham was muslim according to quran, then how allah claimed Muhammad as the first muslim in the quran. he confessed that this question is unanswerable. After that, he is really worthless person for me on this website, and I don't talk with him any further on Islam.

Have a nice day!

Mohammad.A.Khan
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To Mr. vishunath.
written by Reed Wilson. , February 20, 2011
Dear vishunath.I dont know Adolf much. It is all 'may be'.
Munafiqoon are not muslims and p'haps they (ex muslims) were not found. Quran says:

وَقَاتِلُوا فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ الَّذِينَ يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ وَلَا تَعْتَدُوا ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يُحِبُّ الْمُعْتَدِينَ
"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, and do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors" 2:190.(Dont fight for socio economic reasons)
لَيْسُوا سَوَاءً ۗ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ أُمَّةٌ قَائِمَةٌ يَتْلُونَ آيَاتِ اللَّهِ آنَاءَ اللَّيْلِ وَهُمْ يَسْجُدُونَ
"Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration". 3:113
إِلَّا الَّذِينَ يَصِلُونَ إِلَىٰ قَوْمٍ بَيْنَكُمْ وَبَيْنَهُمْ مِيثَاقٌ أَوْ جَاءُوكُمْ حَصِرَتْ صُدُورُهُمْ أَنْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ أَوْ يُقَاتِلُوا قَوْمَهُمْ ۚ وَلَوْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ لَسَلَّطَهُمْ عَلَيْكُمْ فَلَقَاتَلُوكُمْ ۚ فَإِنِ اعْتَزَلُوكُمْ فَلَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ وَأَلْقَوْا إِلَيْكُمُ السَّلَمَ فَمَا جَعَلَ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ عَلَيْهِمْ سَبِيلًا [٤:٩٠]4:90 "Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them).

وَقَفَّيْنَا عَلَىٰ آثَارِهِمْ بِعِيسَى ابْنِ مَرْيَمَ مُصَدِّقًا لِمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ التَّوْرَاةِ ۖ وَآتَيْنَاهُ الْإِنْجِيلَ فِيهِ هُدًى وَنُورٌ وَمُصَدِّقًا لِمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ التَّوْرَاةِ وَهُدًى وَمَوْعِظَةً لِلْمُتَّقِينَ [٥:٤٦]
And in their footsteps I sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah".
وَلْيَحْكُمْ أَهْلُ الْإِنْجِيلِ بِمَا أَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ فِيهِ ۚ وَمَنْ لَمْ يَحْكُمْ بِمَا أَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ فَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الْفَاسِقُونَ [٥:٤٧]
Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

You write "By the way, how the hell you are denying your history of Islam? Is it because spreading truth about Islam and conflicting with quran? how did you condemned Tabri, ibn ishaq and others, that they wrote history on Islam? what do you have proof of your statment?

Because there is no reliable history of 7th century. The names you mention are all late comers and they lack sources. Informed people know that.

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...
written by duh_swami , February 20, 2011
Archpagan ,
It is Viveka Chudamani meaning 'heights of conscience' not Viveka Chudanami

Except for the spelling error, I quoted the title of the book...
I didn't write it, but I did read it...It was a long time ago...I think the commentary was by Swami Chinmayananda...I knew Swami Chinmayananda in person...He used to come to America to conduct spiritual camps that I attended...He would have individual conversations in private where he would answer the inquirers questions before they asked him...He once sent me a thank you for some small thing I did, it was his booklet, titled, 'I love you', which was an in depth discussion on love...I still have it...
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Mohammad.A.Khan
written by duh_swami , February 20, 2011
Thank you for the compliment the other day about 'sin'...Your observations about Reed are correct in my opinion...I don't mind him too much because he gives posters something to post about...My objection is too much of him...He dominates this site...As I have said numerous times, this is Islam-watch, not Reed Wilson-watch...His Islam is not the Islam we should be watching, so most of the time, he is a distraction...
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historians
written by fineliving56 , February 20, 2011
If Tabari and Iben Isha'k and others are all not reliable …so what makes one person alone like Muhammed ,reliable and others all put together ,not …is that logical ….to me I will believe people who never killed or did a crime in there lives comparing to one who's character in question and proven a killer from the lie of a book[ Quran ] it self that he wont us to follow ….
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Demsci
written by fineliving56 , February 20, 2011
thank you for saying that …I have come to the conclusion that Reed and people like him muslim idealizers , have a gloss on there eyes they do not see clearly…. similar to a couple who just fell in love they do not see the flaws of each other even when it clear to others and they worn them of the flaws but still give all kind of excuses to stay in the relation ship

I have to tell you I still cling to the idea of God …it is sort of soft blanket that a child likes to cling to when worried and need comforting …it is hard for me to admit that ,but that exactly what happen to me when my brother died early in his life and I remember clinging to the idea I am going to see him in the after life ,even when I was not sure about heaven and hell and thought it was just a scared tactic brought by God in Quran for people to stay in line .
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reed
written by vishunath , February 20, 2011
reed, you said, "Because there is no reliable history of 7th century. The names you mention are all late comers and they lack sources. Informed people know that. "

Now you tell me, how do you pray and how many bows and prostration you do while you pray? because in my information, there is nowhere in the quran that explains about the mehod of Muslim prayer. I want to know what is the method of Muslim prayer. it is in Ahadiths and seera of muhammad that you totally reject.
answer my question please.
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to fineliving (sorry for you)
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , February 20, 2011
Fine living, i am sorry to tell you that you will never see your siblings or beloved ones after this life. neither you nor anyone else. this is the bitter truth which took a long time to me to accept. All i can say, I am sorry.

have a nice day!

Mohammad.A.Khan
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Allah is not perfect,according to Allah
written by lw1 , February 20, 2011
2.106 Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause to be forgtton, but we bring (in place) one BETTER or the like thereof.
Allah is admitting here that he always does not get it perfectly right.

More than 60% of Quran is threats and hatred, why should anyone trust it,except for selfish personal reasons?
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Mohammad. A Khan
written by fineliving56 , February 20, 2011
Yes I feel sorry too ..we can not help it …if there is a merciful God he/she/it will never be cruel enough to take our loved ones, the ugly way it always happens ….you feel your heart just ripped out right form your chest …someone told me once …we better off not to cling to anyone so deeply...we should always have it in mind we might loose them at any moment and we should except death as part of live like eating and drinking and instead , work on the quality of the time you spend with them to make good and happy times and memoirs that will last after they leave us .
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To Mr. Vishunath.
written by Reed Wilson. , February 21, 2011
vishunath. In your Feb. 20, post you raised two points.

1.Hitler was fascinated by the Quran where there are verses killing ex muslims (Munafiqoon) and Non muslims, repeated over and over again.

2.Islamic history is spreading truth about Islam and conflicting with Quran and Tabri, ibn ishaq and others, were the reliable historians of early Islam.

In reply I submitted following:

1.There were no ex muslims.
2.Munafiqoon are not non muslims.
3.Quran 2:190 saying fight only those who fight with you and do not fight on socio economic issues
4.Quran 3:113. Saying there are nice people among people of book.
5.Quran 4:90. Saying that do not fight with people with whom you have agreement and those who don’t want to continue fighting. You have no right to continue hostility with them.
6.There was no reliable history of 7th century. The names you mention are all late comers and they lack sources. Informed people know that.

Now you are asking:
“Now you tell me, how do you pray and how many bows and prostration you do while you pray? Because in my information, there is nowhere in the Quran that explains about the method of Muslim prayer. I want to know what the method of Muslim prayer is. It is in Ahadiths and seera of Muhammad that you totally reject”.

I am happy that other issues pointed by you earlier are settled.

Method of prayer is given in Quran. It is given in great detail. You cannot find method of prayer in Hadith. It is nowhere in hadis.
Whenever I tell my friends to reject hadis, method of prayer is their first reaction. It is because they have neither read Quran nor hadis.


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...
written by Reed Wilson. , February 21, 2011
Duh-swami. You write "His Islam is not the same Islam we should be watching".

Which Islam you like; one presented by RW or the one you should be watching?

Reed-watch: Did you notice that if RW doesn't answer one question, the poser froths at his mouth with anger, severs all terms and considers him worthless? Now there are many posters asking him questions.
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non-believer - you can worship Satan all you want!
written by Katharina Sri (ex Noor Aza) , February 21, 2011
So, you called me as being verbally violent; for criticizing the extremely Satanic violent Arabic Pedophile rapist, robber, slave-owner (including sexual slaves such as young Jewish captive girls), and mass murderer of the Jews, Mohammed, who craeted Islam, in order to construct pure Arabian kingdom and legitimize his and his tribe’s evil Arabic socio-cultural practises?! Yes, we can figure out why you love Satan allright!
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TO REED WILSON
written by steadyfriend , February 21, 2011
TO REED WILSON

fineliving56 writes

Does it not comes down to ONLY MUHAMMAD CREDIBILITY …right
written by fineliving56 , February 19, 2011
no going around it ….you trust Muhammad [ and by the way ,you Reed ,the Muhammed that we all know about from Hadeeth and Suna is not the real Muhammed …right ]……..only Muhammad that Quran is the word of Allah ..right….no one else around to verify Muhammad …right ….that is not good enough for me Reed …you answer was not satisfying in fact you did not answer the heart of the Question

Reed, fineliving56 has a point, you know !

I mean, Mohammed proclaimed himself as the last Messenger of God, because the Quran says so. And the Quran was entirely what Mohammed said ! This is Circular Reasoning !

Mohammed thought of all the things said in the Quran, which “lacked sources”, as you say in your most recent comment. How reliable then, are the ayats in Quran, especially when the finalised version of the Quran was compiled from disparate sources, many years after Mo’s death ? By then, many of the persons who had heard Mo speak had either forgotten or had died ?

Upon reading the Quran, it dawned on me that at least on THREE occasions, whenever Mo landed in a sticky situation, the following morning he proclaimed a new verse ( he said he had received from Allah), WHICH FAVOURED HIM ! How very convenient ! A more plausible explanation is that this guy had thought over the matter overnight and produced a verse which would favour him, knowing the gullible masses would believe him !

What fineliving56 says below is true !

written by fineliving56 , February 20, 2011
If Tabari and Iben Isha'k and others are all not reliable …so what makes one person alone like Muhammed ,reliable and others all put together ,not …is that logical ….to me I will believe people who never killed or did a crime in there lives comparing to one who's character in question and proven a killer from the lie of a book[ Quran ] it self that he wont us to follow ….

Given these conditions, why do you and other muslims believe the Quran to be God’s words ? And why do you state “Quran verifies itself. It is addressing mankind.” ?
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TO REED WILSON
written by steadyfriend , February 21, 2011

In particular, I mean Tabari, Ishaq and all the other commentators are all WRONG, while Mohammed alone, without any proof or evidence and " lacking in sources", is all RIGHT ? So, the Quran, spoken by Mohammed alone, is all right, is this what you say ?

In that case, Tabari, Ishaq and others too are all sound, for they have some corraborating evidence in support.

Your total belief in the Quran (dictated by Mo) being true, verifying itself and addressing mankind is illogical and nonsensical.
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Mr. Khan, God is not our Nanny!
written by Katharina Sri (ex Noor Aza) , February 21, 2011
The Bible taught us that Adam and Eve, living in a sinless paradise, decided out of their free will as graciously given by God, due to arrogance, to follow evil. Thus, due to this 'Fall', out of that free will, God let human beings live freely in the world - but He will judge at the end of the world as we Christians believe, as no evil will go unpunished. Most of wickedness are human-made including diseases, such as from smoking and environmental pollution and so on. As Pastor Willhelm Busch (who was jailed a few times by the Nazis) argued, "From its very first chapters, the Bible states that man has separated himself from God. And at the fall, he dragged all of creation with him. It is as though a lock-gate had been opened. Suffering, death, distress, and injustice all flooded the world.
The Bible affirms clearly that the world we live in is not the way God wanted it. We live in a fallen world where sin reigns and where the devil, the "murderer" and "father of lies", holds such power that he is called the "god of this world". (Busch, W. Jesus: our destiny, Basel, Brunnen Publishing, 2005, p. 72).
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Correct reference
written by Katharina Sri (ex Noor Aza) , February 21, 2011
Busch, W., Jesus: our destiny, Basel, Brunnen Publishing, 2005, p. 72.
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Katharina Sri/Reed
written by duh_swami , February 21, 2011
I don't think you are verbally violent, but you are enthusiastic...That's not a criticism, enthusiasm is actually required, and everyone has their own style of it...

Reed...
Which Islam you like; one presented by RW or the one you should be watching?

I don't like either...The lessor of two evils is still evil...I'm waiting for you to acknowledge the evil in the Quran, but you never will...You just try to explain it away...I'm sorry to tell you that your attempts to explain away the evil of Quran and it's child Islam are not working...the evil is still there...It's been there for 1400 years...there is no sign that the evil is going away any time soon...
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reed
written by vishunath , February 21, 2011
read you write, "2.Munafiqoon are not non muslims."
however, your quran states in chapter 63, which goes as

When the hypocrites come to you, they say: We bear witness that you are most surely Allah's Messenger; and Allah knows that you are most surely His Messenger, and Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars. Quran 1:63

They make their oaths a shelter, and thus turn away from Allah's way; surely evil is that which they do.
Quran 2:63

Now ever after this you claim that Munafiqs or hypocrites are not no muslims?

reed, whether you pray or not, how many Muslims, according to islam, should prostrate in the dawn's prayer and how many rakaats in the same prayer?

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to Katharina
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , February 21, 2011
My dear Katharina, I respect your ideas and believes that you are following. Atleast I am happy that Christianity do not teach hatred as far as Quran does. And we are seeing this practically in the Muslim-world, how they are brutals not only to non-muslims but also to other muslims too.

like you said that we live in the world of sin, which was not supposed to be as your god wanted. like i said in my one of the post to Duh Swami, that he presented a wise quote that sin is very important, which I further shared a little part of my thoughts.

you very well aware of me that I keep saying here that I am atheist, is just because I have already experimented the religion, regardless Islam, christianity, Judaism or any, which made me very cautious. I got deceived by religion once, why should I go for another deceive.

I wish that you get from what you believe in your religion and hereafter. on the other hand, I don't have any god, only i am the god of myself and I am happy with it. I know what i am doing, and what I have to do.

have a sweet day!

Mohammad.A.Khan
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To Mr. Muhammad. A. Khan.
written by Reed Wilson. , February 21, 2011
Dear Mr. Khan. Please realize that I don’t know everything and may not be able to answer every question.
•Some questions are too simple to reply.
•Some questions are not answered as they demand too long reply and research to accommodate in these pages.
•Some questions are answered but are considered as unanswered due to sift software of this site.
•Some not answered due to lack of knowledge of both the questioner and respondent.

Once a high school girl sent problem of solving her quadratic equation to Albert Einstein. Prof. wrote her that it took him very long to solve that equation. At another occasion he replied “Do not worry about your difficulties in Mathematics. I can assure you mine are still greater”.

You write “when I asked him if Abraham was Muslim according to Quran, then how Allah claimed Muhammad as the first Muslim in the Quran. He confessed that this question is unanswerable”.

Since you are saying, that I ever answered like that, I will not contest. I quote the verses you are referring:
لَا شَرِيكَ لَهُ ۖ وَبِذَٰلِكَ أُمِرْتُ وَأَنَا أَوَّلُ الْمُسْلِمِينَ
وَأُمِرْتُ لِأَنْ أَكُونَ أَوَّلَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ

In both places (6:163 and 39:12) the translation is “And I am commanded that I
shall be the first of those who submit. No such claim.

When he invited people to Islam, he naturally said I already believe what I am asking you to believe. We know that Allah himself has said in Quran that Abraham and his followers were Muslims. Do you refer to any other verse?

You know clowns are to entertain people. They don’t hurt. Losers should be appreciated by winners. How could they be winners if there were no losers?
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To Steadyfriend.
written by Reed Wilson. , February 21, 2011
steadyfriend. Thanks for directing question to me. You ask "In particular, I mean Tabari, Ishaq and all the other commentators are all WRONG, while Mohammed alone, without any proof or evidence and " lacking in sources", is all RIGHT?

My friend many a times I have proved that Tabri Ibn Ishaq, Ibn Hisham and others have no moorings.

You know that they are not contemporary of Muhammad and their sources are not sources. In short I tell you that Ibn Ishaq and Ibn Hisham are found in Tabri only. Tabri refers to Ibn Hisham and he to Ibne Ishaq and no published work of Ibn Ishaq is available to mankind.

It is a truth that history of 7th century is not available so far.

Muhammad is right or wrong I am not saying that. Nor it can be proved with that logic. You are the one who will judge.

If you are basing your research on Tabri/Hisham/Ishaq or Bakaka, you are doing so at the risk of quality of your work.
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To Mr. vishunath.
written by Reed Wilson. , February 21, 2011
vishunath. Yes you are right. You quoted:

"When the hypocrites come to you, they say: We bear witness that you are most surely Allah's Apostle; and Allah knows that you are most surely His Apostle, and Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars". (63:1)

Where non Muslims? It is a separate category. There can be munafiqoon among any denomination of religion.

Pls appreciate they saying "We bear witness that you are most surely Allah's Apostle" they should have rather been Muslims. Allah says they are liars.

I enjoyed and appreciate your curiosity. Your sincerity will lead you to the truth.

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steadyfrind
written by fineliving56 , February 21, 2011
True , logical and making sense sadly , are not words could describe religious people …we could be posting here and talking ,until we are blue in the face [ or perhaps develop hand nerve tic from writing here …lol ] …..the questions I presented earlier are Questions I ask moderates muslim some times and no satisfying answers comes my way ….I remember one muslim woman I know said to me : Are you a Muslim or not ?...you have to take Quran as it is or you will go to Jahannem ..Questioning is in its self is HARAM ,Quran is true BECAUSE MUHAMMAD SAID SO AND THAT ALL THE PROVE I NEED AND THAT WHAT YOU SHOULD DO …WE HAVE NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER …I remember saying I do have a choice and I am sorry my friend , I am not nor will ever leave my brain at the door when it comes to Islam or Quran or Muhammad …..apparently I am no good friend any more to her anymore ,she cut off friendship with me and that no loss to me .
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reed
written by vishunath , February 21, 2011
reed you write, "When the hypocrites come to you, they say: We bear witness that you are most surely Allah's Apostle; and Allah knows that you are most surely His Apostle, and Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars". (63:1)

Where non Muslims? It is a separate category. There can be munafiqoon among any denomination of religion."

so it means that it doesn't matter if your allah sent curses on any, so they remain Muslims and those cursed ones will goto heaven. My goodness. If those cursed ones will go to heaven, then why Shaitan will go to hell. he was also cursed ones. Did allah say about shaitan he was non-Muslim? Now be specific reed, as you asked me
"Where non Muslims?" now prove from quran that Shaitan is Non-Muslim. I believe that shaitan is cursed one in the quran, then why he will go to hell for eternity?

And by the way, you completely skipped the part of prayers that I asked you. hahahahaha!
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Pandeism fully accounts for all theistic myths
written by Pandeism , February 21, 2011
Pandeism is a theological system which combines reconcilable elements of Pantheism with Deism, attempting to answer open questions left by each with aspects of the other. Deism proposes that God created the Universe and then left it to operate and develop by it's own governing dynamics. Pantheism proposes that God is equivalent to a Universe which has always existed, and that God exists and operates as those governing dynamics. Pandeism concludes that elements of both are correct, that God did create our Universe, but that it did not "leave it" but instead completely became the energy of which all things are made and the unconscious governing dynamics by which all things operate. Such a model was first proposed by the Milesian School of Ancient Greece. The modern name of the theory was coined in 1787 by a German bookseller annotating the Natural History of Pliny the Elder.

The great benefits of this pandeistic model are:

It accounts for the state of our Universe with the fewest assumptions required of any theological model. The whole of the set of assumptions necessary for Pandeism are:

-- that ours may be a Created Universe, and if this is so, then our Creator necessarily possessed these characteristics:
-- sufficient power to set forth the forces of which our Universe is composed
-- sufficent intelligence to set forth the governing dynamics guiding those forces into the states which we observe
-- rationality, for ours is a rational Universe, consistent in the application of those governing dynamics
-- a rational motivation to create such a Universe as ours.

Under the pandeistic model it need NOT be assumed that our Creator is a conscious and active deity who chooses to act or not act, and is opposed by some evil entity presumed to have been created by it as well. It does not continue to interfere in our Universe, judge or condemn, send seeming conflicting messages to prophets of various faiths, or create or permitted any other spiritual forces to contend with man.

Pandeism fully accounts for ALL claimed miracles, revelations, scripture, prophecy, egrigori, spiritual activity, spiritual emotion, etc, and it does so for ALL faiths. It explains that if any of these occur at all, then they are simply manifestations of the power of our Creator unconsciously underlying our Universe, as unwittingly misread through the biased minds of human observers.
0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , February 22, 2011
To vishunath. You asked me "Now you tell me, how do you pray and how many bows and prostration you do while you pray? because in my information, there is nowhere in the quran that explains about the mehod of Muslim prayer. I want to know what is the method of Muslim prayer. it is in Ahadiths and seera of muhammad that you totally reject".

vishunath, this was taken up by me. Method of salat is given in Quran. I did write that method of salat is not given in hadis either. I did not skip.

On this site, at times, I have given the entire configuration of salat. Verses relating wuzu, timings of slat, ingredients of salat, tone in slat etc were given. I can repeat all that if you want.

Method of slat is always advanced in support of hadis whereas it is not in hadis either.
0
reed
written by vishunath , February 22, 2011
reed, simply answer me how many prostrations are in one rakaat of a prayer. this is my final question I am asking you, while you are trying to tell rubbish and talking out of context. Just tell me how many prostrations are in one rakaat. you can simply answer me by saying, None, or can say 1, 2, 3 or 4 or more, rather than talkin illogical. i am not interested when, where you posted about the configuration of salaat. if this time you fail to reply me properly and in a simpler way, I will understand you are piece of garbage.
and yes, also don't forget to prove from quran that Shaitan is non-Muslim.
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TO REED WILSON
written by steadyfriend , February 22, 2011
Reed, you have to explain why you take the Quran, dictated solely by Muhammad, to be TRUE & THE WORDS OF GOD !

Despite the fact that it contains so many ayats which go against women and against non-muslims, particularly against the Jews.

Can't you see that the Quran is a catalogue of hatred, violence and terrorism ?

How do you explain Allah splurting threats, violence and terrorism (in the Quran) against non muslims ?

If it was truly the words of God, it would be loving, caring and compassionate for EVERYONE, including NON-MUSLIMS !

After all, many of the holy men who appeared before Muhammad, e.g. Buddha, were kind, compassionate and endearing to everyone. Even the Persian emporer, Cyrus the Great was more humane than Muhammad, proclaiming a Human Rights Charter and equality for all, even those who were not of his faith. THESE ARE SIGNS OF HOLINESS & GREATNESS !

With Muhammad, you had none of these. The choice he gave the non-muslim Arabs (often called pagans) was Islam or death. Can this be right ?

And what about his pathological hatred of the Jews ? Clearly, Muhammad did not believe in 'multicultural society' ! In his last sermon, he instructed his followers to cleanse Arabia of all non-muslims, which was implemented by one of the later Caliphs. Is this truly the sign of a great religious leader and prophet of God ?

The only explanation can be that the Quran was conceived and thought up by the lunatic and despotic tyrant Muhammed, he wanted a book which would favour him and cover up all his misdeeds, you will agree, won't you ?

To cap it all, you disbelieve in all the other writings (Ahadiths & Sunna) put together, simply because small parts of these went against Muhammad, or showed him in a bad light.

Your staunch defence of the Quran beggars belief and throws serious doubts on your rationality and judgement.
0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , February 22, 2011
steadyfriend. Thanks for the post.

I am sorry, all your claims are unfounded.
0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , February 22, 2011
vishunath. Thank you for allowing me "You can simply answer me by saying, None, or can say 1, 2, 3 or 4 or more, rather than talking illogical".

"I don't know" is no option there. I am sorry I don't know. I don't even know what a rakat is. Do you know?
0
reed
written by vishunath , February 23, 2011
reed look at your own contradiction of your words as you wrote in one of your blog:

"vishunath, this was taken up by me. Method of salat is given in Quran. I did write that method of salat is not given in hadis either. I did not skip.

On this site, at times, I have given the entire configuration of salat. Verses relating wuzu, timings of slat, ingredients of salat, tone in slat etc were given. I can repeat all that if you want.

Method of slat is always advanced in support of hadis whereas it is not in hadis either."

And in the last post you wrote:

"I don't know" is no option there. I am sorry I don't know. I don't even know what a rakat is. Do you know? "

reed do you see the contradiction in your own words. I dont understand, how the hell you configured about salat and prayers showing to otehrs, while you himself is illeterate about salat and rakat? this proved that the follower of the quran is always a liar but not trusted one. Look you confessed yourself. you are a liar reed. how people can trust you. I am done with you and I don't like liars. I got it now, that is why you were trying to waste my and others time. good luck reed, stick with quran, which teach you to tell lie and reject truth.
0
...
written by duh_swami , February 23, 2011
steadyfriend. Thanks for the post.
I am sorry, all your claims are unfounded.

No they are not unfounded...It is your version of Islam that is unfounded...There is evil expressed in the Quran which you neglect to explain...I have asked you about this before and you didn't reply...

Do you support the evil in Quran? If you claim there is none, you are lying and ducking reality...
0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , February 23, 2011
vishunath. "reed look at your own contradiction of your words as you wrote in one of your blog".

You are right vishunath. I dont disown. I cannot disown.

I did not say that I know what is one rakat is equal to. Rakat is not in Quran. Rakat is not defined in Haidis even.

It is a practice vishu. I also follow that. I dont know where it came from.

I follow because I dont reject it. I have accepted it. It is my decision.

Dont entertain misgivings about RW. There is communication gap and we both are on different planes.
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i am a true muslim
written by ibraheem , March 05, 2011
islam shall rule all
0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , March 07, 2011
ibraheem. You write "islam shall rule all". How you say that Ibrahim? Do you find this kind of promise in Qruan? Allah says:

وَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ فَيُوَفِّيهِمْ أُجُورَهُمْ ۗ وَاللَّـهُ لَا يُحِبُّ الظَّالِمِينَ

You will have to qualify for the reward. The condition is given above.

Quran does not say وَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا فَيُوَفِّيهِمْ أُجُورَهُمْ ۗ وَاللَّـهُ لَا يُحِبُّ الظَّالِمِينَ

This وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ is repeated many times. No people will have any preferential treatment.

If you have any other logic, please inform.
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No Authenticity of Mr A khan's Story.
written by Azabyn , August 23, 2011
written by Mohammad.A.Khan , February 18, 2011
there are countless hadiths that narrated by abu Hurraira and chose by Sahih Bukhari and other prominent hadith compilers.
I couldn't understand your message, either you are asking me about the conversation between Aisha and Huraira which I posted in my article, or other recorded sayings of Muhammad which narrated by huraira.

Have a good day!

Mohammad.A.Khan

Mr A Khan the Story you sewed is interesting now would you care to support it with Historical or Islamic evidences please. Even I could write better stories about your wife sleeping with me. But When truth is said it needs to be backed up by Proofs.
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Azabyn
written by Dwito , August 24, 2011
But When truth is said it needs to be backed up by Proofs.


Yes Azabyn, I agree with you 100%. Truth must be established with evidence. We will continue under this term in all future debates. Hope all will agree with us, and the outcome. Be here for long.
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Aisha, Hafsa, Abu Bakr and Omar Killed Mo
written by Berklee , August 26, 2011
The Shi'ites have preserved hadiths that claim four conspirators murdered Mohammed with poison. The poisoning theory is very credible, because Abu Bakr and Omar became caliphs in succession to one another and Omar suggested someone else besides Ali to succeed him. As well, Mohammed's daughter was done out of her inheritance by Abu Bakr. (The inheritance would have strengthened Ali's power to overthrow Abu Bakr.)

In addition, Mohammed was not talked about for one hundred years after his murder and no one was interested in the Koran either. It seems everyone knew he was a madman and false prophet, but they kept up the pretence because they were making lots of money.

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