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Muhammad Poor, or Was He?

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Muhammad was neither poor nor a man of simplicity...


Prophet Muhammad is portrayed, by Muslims as well as many non-Muslims, as a poor man who dedicated his life to deliver Allah’s message to mankind. He is usually associated with a simplistic life style that lacks the lavishness enjoyed by the rich and famous of his time. In the minds of Muslims, Mohammed’s image is that of a determined messenger of Allah who was not deterred by the hardship and the persecution he suffered at the hands of the Meccan Arabs (1). Such representation of Muhammad as savour, who had no material ambitions or earthy desires and achieved no personal gains, fits well in the image of the ‘perfect hero’, which Muslims aim to paint for him. Mohammed’s early childhood as an orphan, who lost his father before he was born and lost his mother at the age six, provided the Muslims with a convenient readymade foundation on which they built their desired image of their hero.

Such image of Mohammed’s life style is one of Islam’s strange ironies because it is believed despite the evidence to the contrary. Such claim about a simplistic Muhammad is a clever mental illusion that distracts the mind from seeing the obvious and works well even on people who are critical of Mohammed. The secret of the success of this mental trick lies in the different perception of luxury in the seventh century Arabia. People have different tastes and priorities in life; what is considered to have a high value by some people may have no value at all to others. The Arabs’ in general were not keen on appearances and the other manifestations of high class or royalty. Managing wealth depends on personal taste, culture and the available resources, all of which were poorly developed in Arabia compared to the other nations of the time like the Romans and the Persians.

The Arabs have always been loyal to their tradition, which explains why Islam is shaped to agree with those traditions. Even today, departing from the local traditions is considered a serious social offence that most modern Arabs try to avoid. In the seventh century Arabia, it was considered a social duty for the chief of the tribe to open his house to all, a tradition that is still alive in many Arab societies today. Such a tradition was considered as a sign of generosity and an indication of distinction and social prominence. In the seventh century, it was traditionally unacceptable for the wealthy Arabs, who were normally eminent figures in their tribes, to be segregated from the rest of their societies by guards or palace walls. Arabic literature is rich in examples that emphasise that tradition. I am not sure if it is still the case, but it was customary for the rulers in the Gulf States to offer coffee in their lounges, called diwan, to ordinary people, who seize the opportunity to hand their complaints, or requests for help, directly to the rulers. In addition to the cultural reason, there were other reasons for the lack of palaces, and other manifestations of luxury, in Arabia. The Arabs, in the seventh century, did not have the technology or the resources to build spectacular palaces on the scale known in Persia or Syria. A simple tent was a practical and simple answer to the hot desert climate. Those who visit the Gulf States may be surprised to see that the wealthy Arabs still use tents which they erect next to their palaces. Gaddafi’s tent is a living reminder, not just of the Libyan leader’s eccentricity, but also of that old desert tradition.

It is true that Muhammad did not own spectacular palaces, but neither did any other wealthy leader in Arabia. In the absence of accurate indicators of capital such as bank accounts, Mohammed’s wealth has to be gauged using the suitable measures of the time. In other words, we have to look at his assets in the form of properties, as well as his other possessions. This article is not designed to provide an estimate of Mohammed’s wealth, but it sheds some light on only some of his assets and refutes the claims that he was poor or had a simplistic life style. As usual, our sources are the authentic Islamic history sources; it is either that the Islamic history is completely wrong (and Islam is a big lie) or that Muhammad was a corrupt ‘millionaire’ (and also Islam is a big lie).

Muhammad in Mecca: "Millionaire" at 25

We learn from sira (Mohammed’s biography) that Muhammad was trained to be a merchant by his uncle Abu Talib, with whom he travelled to Syria. Mecca was the most affluent city and the undisputed cultural and trade centre of Arabia. As a young man, Muhammad had his own business as a merchant and did so well that he could afford to offer financial help to Abu Talib by raising one of his children, Ali, in his own house. At an early age, Muhammad was selected by Khadija, the wealthiest woman in Mecca, to manage her business. Obviously she paid him well and treated him well as evidenced by the fact that she offered him to marry her when he was still twenty five years of age.

With such wealth at his disposal, Muhammad became one of the most prosperous men in Arabia when he was only twenty five years of age. Khadija died a few years later leaving all her possessions to him. These are all historical facts about Mohammed’s life that were never disputed by Muslims before. It is clear that throughout all his adult life in Mecca, Muhammad was a rich man.

Muhammad in Yathrib: The leader

Muhammad emigrated to Yathrib (present day Medina) in 622 AD and established his Islamic state. Inevitably, the relocation to Yathrib was associated with extra spending and a period of instability, but Muhammad had a long time to plan and prepare for that historic move. However, Muhammad did feel the financial crunch in Yathrib not so much for him personally but more for his group of immigrants, known as ‘almuhajiroon’. Unlike Mecca, the economy of Yathrib was not based on trade but on farming and simple crafts. As a leader of a united group of men, Muhammad had the means, and the opportunity, to establish some form of business to secure a reasonable income, but he opted to earn his money the easy way- piracy, which he called jihad. After scoring initial swift gains by raiding trading caravans and the neighbouring tribes, the taste of easy money flavoured by his victims’ blood was too good to Muhammad to give up, and too addictive that he eventually made it a lifelong career.

In general, a man is considered poor when he is unable to live without financial help from the others. A person who can afford to own a reasonable house and provides the means of reasonable living standards to his family is generally considered to be comfortable. Rich people are those who own more assets than they need. By any standard, a man who owns many houses with servants and slaves must be a wealthy man.

We do not know exactly the grand total of Mohammed’s wives but we know that at one stage he had nine of them. We also know that each of Mohammed’s wives had her own house, maids and slaves. Marriages were costly social activities especially when the bridegroom happened to be the leader of the community. When Muhammad successfully formulated the divine decree to marry Zaynab, he celebrated for a week; hundreds of goats were slaughtered to provide lavish meals for the residents of Medina. Throwing a party for a week, for the entire city, can hardly be called a simplistic life style; only the super rich can afford such extravagance. Muhammad could afford throwing many of such parties; he actually loved such lavish generosity that he made it sunna to his followers (2). He once told Abdul Rahman Ibn Auf: “make invitations, even if you cook only one goat”. In Mohammed’s ‘simplistic’ life style, a party with only one cooked goat was a small party. Getting married has always been an expensive social event; Muhammad afforded marriage not once but many times. Marrying multiple wives was a sign wealth in Arabia, which is hardly surprising, and still so in our time.

After establishing his Islamic state in Yathrib, Muhammad became the only man on earth to share Allah his wealth. He cleverly released a verse (3) stating that one fifth of all war booties were to be assigned to Allah and his messenger; in real terms to Muhammad alone. That verse alone secured an enormous and regular income and effectively safeguarded Mohammed’s wealth throughout his life.

Some of Muhammad’s Assets (4):

Wives: here are the names of one dozen of them, but he probably had many more.

Kadija, Sawda, Aysha, Hafsa, Zainab Al Hilalya, Aum Salma, Zainab Bintu Jahsh, Juwayryia, Safiya, Um Habiba, Maria, Maymuna.

Houses: Muhammad gave each of his wives a house, totally independent from the others. Each wife had her own maids and slaves, all paid for by ‘poor’ Mohammed.

Slaves: Muhammad preferred to sell his slaves, but he kept some of them including Maria and Rayhana. Other slaves included: Abu Rafi, Thawba, Abu Kabsha, Salih, Rabah, Yassar, Anasa, Tahman, Keysan, Marwan…

Servants/ personal assistants: Muhammad had a dozen of servants and personal assistants, each assigned to do a specific job. The following are the names of some them:

Anas Ibn Malik: a personal assistant for general purposes.

Ibn Massoud: looked after Mohammed’s sewaks (used to clean the teeth) and shoes.

Ukba: looked after Mohammed’s mules

Abu Zar, Bilal and many others.

Personal guards: Muhammad employed a number of bodyguards; the following are the names of some of them: Saad Ibn Maaz, Ibn Salma, Al Zubair and Abbad Ibn Bashr.

Cattle: owning a horse in the past was like owning a top of the range luxury car. Muhammad owned not one but dozens of horses, mules and donkeys and had specialist people employed to look after them. He also owned herds of camels and goats.

Lands: Muhammad owned the entire land of Khayber, where the tribe of Bani Al Nadeer used to live. The Jewish tribe was defeated; many of its men killed and women enslaved, the survivals were deported to outside Arabia. The tribe’s processions and the entire land were assigned to Muhammad (5).

Muhammad also owned a large land outside Medina in a region called Fadak.

Conclusion
Muhammad became a wealthy man from a young age. His eccentric and complex personality was associated with matching eccentric desires on which he spent his wealth. He was not a refined man and never developed the taste for a refined life style. His mind was totally occupied with myths, religions and the supernatural. His dream and fascination was to be seen by his followers as a man with absolute divine authority, an obsession that he achieved once he seized power. Armed with his divine claims, Muhammad sought total obedience from his followers. The Muslims’ submission to Muhammad was voluntary but was driven by a state of fear, not from Muhammad but from Allah! The paradox is that although Muhammad was an authoritarian tyrant, he was neither feared nor hated by his followers- because it is all from Allah!

Armed with his false divine claims, Muhammad successfully made it part of the faith that Muslims must love him more than they loved themselves. No king had ever managed to achieve such state of conformity from his subjects. Mohammed’s sick ego could only be satisfied by emphasising to his followers that he was the best man to walk on the earth. Through his false divine authority, Muhammad could ‘own’ any woman he desired, even if she was married. Mohammed’s sick desires exist only in sick minds, but any of those desires is well beyond the reach of the richest and most powerful men on earth. Mohammed’s sick ego was better satisfied by watching his followers eating like him, drinking like him and dressing like him, which they still do today. Good Muslims can only like what Muhammad liked and hate what Muhammad hated.


References:

  1. The truth is that the Meccans demonstrated exemplary tolerance to Muhammad, see ‘Islamic Jihad, a legacy of forced conversion, imperialism and slavery’ pages 18-26 by M A Khan.
  2. Muhammad told Abdulrahman Ibn Auf, one of close sahaba: اولم ولو بشاة , meaning it is good to make a dinner invitation, even if he only cooks one goat. Reported by both Bukhari and Muslim.
  3. Q. 8:41: “And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah and to the Messenger ...”
  4. Ibn Qayyim Al-Jawziyyah: ‘  زاد المعاد في هدي خير العباد  zad al ma-aad fi hady kairil ibad’:
  5. According to hadith by Omar Ibn AlKhattab, reported by Al Tirmizi, Page/Number 1719 in the Arabic edition.
Comments (58)Add Comment
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Muhammad and Oil
written by Steve , December 15, 2009
Wow! Can you imagine if Muhammad had access to oil in his day? He would be super rich! Oh well, he's got his 72 virgins -- or is it 72 raisins? Either way, he's like that dog Rover -- dead all over. Thankfully.
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To the Author
written by Truth , December 15, 2009
As usual this article like the all others published on this website does omit most facts and twist the truth. Mr. Salih refers to other articles written by MA Khan and other.

Unfortunately the author of this article chose to ignore the hadeeth that tells how many days would go by and not even a single fire(for cooking) would be lit in the houses of the wives of Prophet Muhammad. The author chose not to mention the hadeeth that tells how the Prophet would go for a while day on handful of dates. The Hadeeths have complete details about the life of Prophet Muhammad and his wives with the exception of Khadija and all that was left behind after he immigrated to Medina. His wives were never rich nor did they have servants of any sort. Mr. Salih miss quotes some basic facts about seventh century Arabia. Not all Arabs at the time of Prophet Muhammad lived in tents. Only Bedouins lived in tents and some continue to do so till this day. Prophet Muhammad was not a Bedouin, the hadeeth made clear reference about those.

For the reader and those who care to get some true facts that are referenced by Islamic sources please refere to many books on Amazon. The Life of Muhammad by Muhammad Husayn Haykal.
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to'truth'
written by vbv , December 16, 2009
IfMuhamadwas poor,as you claim,whatdidhe do with the 20% loot that he had amassed during his numerous raids/dacoity/brigandry all his life? 20% was no small amount considering that he could keep his warlords and thousands of mercenaries under him happy ,not to speak of slaves,concubines ,etc.You are notfooling anyone about your dubious 'prophet' and his immoral capers. This man was a cunning,shrewd,calculating,cold-blooded criminal wearingthe veneer of so-called 'religion'. He was certainly noBudha,Jesusor Gandhi by any yardstick of spiritualiity or morality. He was the ultimate con-man, a criminal,a barbaric ruffian, a rapist,a murderer and a psychopath all roled in one. You cannot justify any of his actions or his charlotonry. No wonder the staunchest muslims are barbaric,have criminaltendencies like him. You can take your "taqiyya" bullshit and stuff it down a stinking toilet.
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written by Machmoed elchalid , December 16, 2009
To vbv,

That was after the hijra. In Mecca he wasn't that rich but he was deffinately not poor. He became less richer when khadija died but that was not a few later as the author wrote. The prophet became a polygamist after Khadija died when the prphet was nearly 49 years old (618/619 A.D.). But for the that time he was considered rich and ofcourse 150 years later when they started to collect/make upstories about the sayings and deeds of the prophet, they portretted him as simple poor man....to stay in the line of other prophets. The biggest question scholars have is: did he ever exist and is there evidence from his own life by him or someone during his life?.....there has been found nothing....what they found is that the story is much different than the storie of islam (orthodox vision).
0
generally con artist and dacoits like muhamed r having some money
written by LASHKER EEI TOIIBA , December 16, 2009



generally conmen and dacoit hiway robber like muhamed have money.

man 20 wives,right hand possessions,etc.....wow,i wud like to be a
prophet too,its easy read other books make up stuff and kill ppl who
oppose u.

and fofer 72 or 720 big breasted babes houries in an imaginary
sex place called imaginary paradise.

wohooo anyone can be a prophet and start his won religions !!!!

al ham dull illllllaaaaa
0
...
written by Machmoed elchalid , December 16, 2009
wohooo anyone can be a prophet and start his won religions !!!!

In the time of Muhammad there were a lot of the so called prophets....some have been killed or whatever. So not everybody could be a prophet, but a lot men tried. It was not accepted and because of that there were 2 big civil wars.
0
may be mohammad was best man as per standards of mecca/medina
written by odiwala , December 16, 2009
well may be Mohammad was best man as per std of mecca.other great civilizations had better standards...otherwise who in his/her right frame of mind can consider a man who slaughters , loots as perfect man!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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GANDHI IS BETTER THAN MUHAMED
written by LASHKER EEI TOIIBA , December 16, 2009


as per standards of morality,piousness,spirituality,tolerance
i think gandhi is best guy.

he is better than jesus/muhamed.bcoz jesus says u can come to
imarginary jehova only through jesus and if u dont do this he fries u in imaginary hell.

muhamed went too many step ahead in extremism.

gandhi is better,he never claimed false divinity like jesus/muhamed,
he never killed anyone or does not condemn anyone.

gandhi is better than muhamed.

so gandhi is real prophet and jesus/muhamaaad r charlatans.

0
nice research
written by Ibn Kammuna , December 16, 2009
This article is a nice research piece. The evidence is strong that Muhammad wad rich, yet sick in the mind man.
Peace
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written by Mulhid , December 16, 2009
Muhammad was poor when he went to Yathrib (hijra) after squandering the inheritance bequeathed by his (one) wife Khadidja. He became wealthy after killing the men of Banu Qurayza (Sira translation p. 464), plundering their riches (he even tortured their treasurer Kinana ibn Rabi'a), and worse of all selling their women and children into slavery (Sira p. 466). He became the richest man of arabia because he collected one fifth of all the spoils of his muslim plunderers. He must be called Nabi 20%.
“The apostle divided the property, wives, and children of B. Qurayza among the Muslims and he made known on that day the shares of horse and men, AND TOOK OUT THE FIFTH.” Ibn Ishaq’s Sira p.466.
0
I bet Mohammad just hated poverty...
written by duh_swami , December 16, 2009
It took a lot of loot to keep Mohammad poor...
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I Agree: Muhammad Wasn't Poor
written by Truth Detector , December 16, 2009
Surely Muhammad wasn't poor. He "married" 21 playmates and had two other whores as extras. It takes money to maintain a private whorehouse and 23 playmates. True, Muhammad wasn't poor.
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Mohammad Rich?
written by wondering , December 16, 2009
No I dont think so, he may have accumulates a bit of gold from his Murdering and theving ways, that and his well documented selling women and children under 12 as slaves (he ordered beheaded all the men and boys over the age of 12). But this just got him gold, silver and 'things'.

Mohammads actions surly kept him in moral poverty, as the actions of those who follow his example are kept in moral (and often physical) poverty. Ben Laden, thinks Mohammad was the greatest person who ever breathed. Ben Laden's actions keep him in a hole in the ground, cut off from all but a few people, but his personel fortune is measured in the Millions, but all that money cant buy him a breath of air anywhere in the civilized world. He is so poor he cant buy a cup of coffee in any coffee house in the world. As it would cost him his life, and he seems to fear his own death, I wonder why that is, after all he would get both the Hori and get to have drinks with his Idol Mohammad. Allah might even invite him down to hell to help burn a few women or better yet a Christian or a Jew.

Irans Leadership is almost as poor, the Ayatollas and their henchmen are coccooned in layer after layer of security, and cant even mix with their own citizens or should I say subjects (slaves?).

No it seems there is no true wealth in following the actions of Islams 'Perfect man' just hate, pain, suffering and death. And we as a world are all poorer for it, arnt we.
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More Islamic Sins
written by Truth Detector , December 16, 2009
Islam can be compared to the Mafia. The Mafia sends out collectors to different businesses to collect "protection money." This, of course, is merely extortion money. If the business doesn't pay, the Mafia collectors will harm the businesses, or maybe the propriators themselves. It's obvious that the Mafia is committing grave criminal sins. Extorting honest folks of their money is forbidden.

Islam works pretty much the same, except the evil Muslims call it the Jizya Tax. Non Muslims, always called infidels, must pay tax to the Muslim extortionists for "protection." If the "infidels" don't pay, the evil Islamists will harm the "infidels." So, the Islamists, like the Mafia, are committing grave criminal sins. This crime is permitted in backward Muslim Third World Countries. Is this hatred of others? You bet; lots of hatred. Islam is built on HATRED.

To me, some of the gravest criminal sins of the Islamists is the legalization of the kidnappings of little female children, as young as seven years old, then forcing these little children to "marry" old, depraved Muslim male perverts, and then legally raping these little children with impunity. Sometimes, hundreds of these little children are "married" in one day to old depraved Muslim male sex perverts. These crimes are permitted only in backward Muslim Third World Countries. These very sinful crimes are not permitted in civilized societies.

In my country, about one year ago, an old Muslim sex pervert, from a backward Muslim country, was caught having sex with a little girl of seven. This Muslim's stupid defense was that he was "married" to the little girl. That Muslim SOB (Son Of the Beast) is still rotting in jail. Let this be a warning to Muslim sex perverts; you're not allowed to "marry" little girls and then rape them in my country. If you do this you will go to jail where you have to be extra careful because the criminal prisoners in these jails might take your life for committing such a grave sin. It often happens to sex perverts. Don't be too surprised if you hear some day that the Muslim sex pervert, who "married" a little child and then raped her in my country, is discovered dead, i.e., murdered. Well, who needs Muslim scum like him?

0
...
written by Mulhid , December 16, 2009
"For the reader and those who care to get some true facts that are referenced by Islamic sources please refere to many books on Amazon. The Life of Muhammad by Muhammad Husayn Haykal."
The Muhammadan mumin who called himself the Truth should read the authentic version of The Life of Muhammad by Ibn Ishaq. This Haykal fellow too had only the sira and the sahih hadiths at his disposal.
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The Life of Muhammad by Muhammad Husayn Haykal." etc
written by wondering , December 16, 2009
I wonder why Mulhid is so interested in telling everyone which books to read. I have read a lot of books on Islam, from both Islamic and western sources. I would never instruct anyone to read just one book, or series of books, it isnt ethical. Unfortunatly there are some here who refuse to look at both sides of the story.

I truly believe the greatest enemy of Islam is education and free informed choice.

But then I amd fortunate in having the freedom to research and decide for myself, without the promise of death for my efforts. As death is the penalty in Islam for Apositsy, and just independently studying or discussing the glaring inconsistancies in the Koran and the Hadith will earn you the privilage of being publically beheaded in many areas of the world.

I hope that the glaring actions of those who blindly follow the man called Mohammad serves as an example to those who still believe those who would have you believe that Islam is a 'Religion'.

I contend Islam is a political system like communism at best, or is at worse a Personallity Cult of a man who lived and died in the sands of Arabia 1400 years ago. This man was basiclly harmless for the first 40 years of his life, but then he started doing very evil things; Having sex with children, Killing people, or ordering them killed, rape, selling women and children into slavery, raiding Caravans for booty and slaves.

I believe that the more those who pattern their lives on this man Mohammad, the more people will ask why they do such evil things. Eventually the truth about this Cult will come out and it wil wither and die, if they are lucky. If Islam is unlucky, they will be burnt from the face of the earth.

Please urge everyone you know to educate themselves about Islam.
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in the defence of his name
written by mourad , December 16, 2009
salam to every muslim and good morning to all respectful members. then , starting from the subject and his writer reaching to the commentators and their sayings . when the writer talks about our civilisation and says that its history is a big lie , a question raised in my mind where are the sources he 'll depend on ? throughout the text he didn't mention his different sources , he depended on true hadeeths and it's ours . if you say it's a lie how can you build your story based on some hadeeths ?
in case, you used these hadeeths just to proove your point of view based on our sources disbelieving their honnesty , i'll answer you ;
mohammed PBUH was a poor person all his life, how ?
he was an orphan and the moves between houses of his grandfather and his uncle can not be translated as he was a rich person and you may know that in abu talib (his uncle) house there was not big things , abu talib was spending all his money generously for the pilgrims who came to mecca and all his kids were fighting when they bring the few quantity of food except mohammed who was very educated . in the first 25 years mohammed (PBUH) was a simple grazer , in mecca there were many children to do this kind of duties . by marrying khadidja (radhia ellah 3enha ) she surely was a rich woman but you forgot to say that she spent all her money in his service but he didn't use her money only to save muslims and islam message . depending on true hadeeths may be you know that in the houses of his wives there have been too much times they didn't burnt fire ( it means prepare a meal ) . in a hadeeth sahih ; aicha ( radhia ellah 3enha ) said that there will be times a crescent and a crescent and a crescent passes and we burn no fire in home ( it means a month and a mont and a month without a prepared meal .) mohammed PBUH the prophet was so simple in his life sometimes or many times in his life he was eating some dates only all the day and sometimes he is fixing a stone in his stomach to prevent the pain of his hunger. talking about the 20 % of money from the conquests ( el foutouhate) , it is used to resolve the problems of the people came to medina without money (emmigrants) ( al mouhadjirin) and to be used for medina needs , or how your wisdom can resolve the needs of the many people came as new muslims to medina and to take the true path and guidance from the best man and the best creature. all his wives except khadidja were poor , and this is a truth in all books of seera . the fact that prooves that mohammed the last prophet did not want wealth , money and command is that koreich or mecca biggest leaders offered him many options to be their leader , to be the wealthiest man all over the arab peninsule , but he refused if as you wanted to convince your readers mohammed wanted to ensure wealth he had never another reason to refuse their money except his convinction .
if he was a criminal looking for fame and money (forbid) how did all who know him treated him with resspect even kings , or how can you explain the answer of al mokaukiss , king of egypt , for the call of mohammed PBUH . i challenge any wise man or woman to proove a criminal who called a famous king to change all his principles and way of life and to be answered with gifts (maria the coptic and some money ). did the king of egypt who was the allied force of the roman feared from the messenger ? the answer is : no , but he knew who was mohammed .
if you talk about mohammed PBUH do not compare him with kings because he was chosen between a messenger as a king or a messenger as a slave ( for his god ) he choose the second one .
i know i was not exactly in the right path to comment only the text but i have been between the commentators and the text .
i say to each member , please do not insult and disrespect our prophet and our religion . if you are a christian member consider that we the muslims did protect the coptic christians in egypt and we brought back the pope benjamin in egypt to his church after 13 years of disappearance because of catholic persecution. if you are talking about al jizya ( taxation ) just talk about the taxation before in any nation and compare prices . if the diversity of wives is a problem , i remind all the members that it is not forbidden in the other religions , but they approved it by succession as one wife only in the same time . if she dies or divorces he can remarry again , more then that he can have mistresses. and this is a pure evil to have friends other's wives. i hope to see a suggestion of another religion if all these critics are against islam , who knows may be some prophets are still exist !!! lol thanks and take care
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written by duh_swami , December 16, 2009
In regard to Mohammad...Any man who drinks from the Budaam well, is a better man than I am...For a short time anyway...Eventually, drinking Budaam water will be the death of you...I bet Mohammad had some really bad acid attacks...
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written by OKIE , December 16, 2009
Muhammad was neither poor nor a man of simplicity...

More like a simpleten is more like! he would have loved more money please..............
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written by The Grand Kaffir of Infidelistan , December 17, 2009
Mourad,
What are the muslims doing for the Coptic Christians now?
We'll stop insulting and disrespectin islam when it crawls back to the 7th century where it belongs.
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to mourad
written by vbv , December 17, 2009
If Muhamad was truly a prophet of good sense and morality, how come he proposed to marry a six year old child Aisha,who was just old enough to be his grand-daughter, and also the wife of his adopted son Zayyed ? He kept women captured in his raids as slaves, he propogated hatred of all non-muslims,especially polytheists and atheists, he robbed, looted,massacred ( for example ,he massacred the jewish tribe Bani Qurayza to thje last man,took their women as slaves). All this is reported by your own muslim 'historians' and the 'Hadiths' which was actually compiled after more than hundred years of Muhamad's death. Can you really call this man a "prophet"? Can he measure up to the moral standing of Budha (who gave up a kingdom and riches for a mendicant's way of life) or even a Gandhi ,who stood up for the down-trodden masses anywhere? Muhamad was a cruel brigand,a psychopathic mafia gangster ,who has left a legacy of 'hate idealogy' that is regressive, oppresses humanrights ,promotes the clergy or mullahs to weild political power in the most despotic manner and tramples individual freedom of thought and expression, promotes fear ,superstition and backwardness and takes us all to the 'dark ages.

Muhamad was poor only in nobilty of thought and action, he was extremely poor in spiritual and moral values , but for that he was a rich criminal and a moral disaster.
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...
written by Mulhid , December 17, 2009
@ wondering. It is not me who "is so interested in telling everyone which books to read". It is the person who called himself the Truth, recommending a sira by a writer named Muhammad Husayn Haykal. Is this Haykal more authoritative than Ibn Ishaq? Is his isnad (chain of narratives) shorter than Ibn Ishaq's?
We're talking here about authentic writings of Islam not some cock and bull stories concocted by writers like Karen Armstrong or Tariq Ramadan.
Am I wrong to suppose that Islam is based on the first place on the qur'an, supplemented by Ibn Ishaq 's Sira, The hadiths of Bukhari and Muslim, The Muwatta of Malik ibn Annas, the Sunan of Abu Daud etc., etc.?
If you want to know something about for instance Greek philosophy you shouldn’t read the above books, but if you want to learn what Islam is all about these works are indispensable.
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Rich Man, Poor man?
written by wondering , December 17, 2009
It seems that during the Meccah period when he was living off of his wifes wealth, Mohammad was very 'religious' and worked hard at getting his new 'religion' of the ground, with very little success. In the end he made a deal with the Koresh and allowed his Moon God 'Allah's' relitives (the Moon gods wife and daughters) into his new 'Religions' worship service. However this didnt set well with Mohammads wife (remember she had the money) and what few followers he still had. After about a year he claimed that Satan, put words in his mind and in his mouth, and abrogated his decision to allow the Moon God "Allah's" relitives into the inner circle.

His elderly wife then died, as did his Uncle, now the money was drying up.

In Meccah his name was MUD so he decided to leave and try his luck somewhere else. He moved to Madena, set up shop, and embarked on his new life, a violent life, but within a few years he had plundered his way into a fortune. Now he could afford his new wifes, (including the child Ayesha). He was in charge, (he managed to murder or order murdered anyone who stood in his way). He leveyed taxes, and took 20% of any thing that was taken in booty. So there you have it, Sex, Power, Money, his own private Moon God to keep the locals in line.

Yup Mohammad was a wealthy man, I pity him and anyone who is so blind to his actions. You see for all of his Wealth and Power he was only feared, hated and dispised, and never truly loved. His modern day followers unfortunatly, seem hell bent on being just like him, and so far their actions have earned them the same 'respect' that poor Mohammad enjoyed.

Wealth stolen from others is not wealth, it is just stuff.
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written by Machmoed elchalid , December 17, 2009
@Mourad,

Scholars are now almost sure Muhammad didn't exist as the ahadieth tell us. Ibn Warraq would laugh at us all...because he is convinced (he's not the only one) while everyone is speculating about what the prophet maybe did or did not. Almost all the modern islamologists, they know that the story (Hadieth, sirat and sunna) is not based on truth and is much later of date than the 7th century. Muhammad never existed as the hadieth tell us. Archeological and scriptural is much different than the orthodox vision. Also Mohammad Kalish (a professor at a university in Germany) is convinced that he didn't exist. They all have very good reasons. Just read ' Die Dunkeln Anfange' .
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written by Machmoed elchalid , December 17, 2009
Wealth stolen from others is not wealth, it is just stuff.

Like imperialism! Europe is not wealthy, it's just stuff they've taken from other civilizations! Let's not mention the US...in comparison with Muhammad/arabs, the west did steel alot and just yesterday (not literraly)
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Wealth stolen from others is not wealth, it is just stuff.
written by wondering , December 17, 2009
Machmoed elchalid, do you honestly not know the difference between Europe and America and Islam? It is pretty simple.

No Government in Europe or America, is based on the lifestyle of Mohammad. Sure there are some who do some of the terrible things that he did, but to us the actions of Mohammad are considered vile and wrong and those people are imprisoned. Also when we make a mistake we correct it and try to move forward, we do not Govern ourselves based on the wit and percived wisdom of a 6th century, Pirate.

Sorry if this basic truth confuses you, but that is just the way it is. In the 6th Century maybe having sex with children, Killing people, or ordering them killed, rape, selling women and children into slavery, raiding Caravans for booty and slaves, was considered normal behavior (I doubt it though). But here and now those actions are not tolerated for long.

Saying it is OK because it is part of my 'religion' dosen't hold much water, as a matter of fact people who have sex with children dont last long even in prison

I wonder why that is, maybe you can answer that question for me, just please reference the bit of the Koran or the Hadith that defends the rape of a child, and convince anyone but an evil beast that this is good and right, pretend it was your child and then convence us all. Oh yes I forgot as we are not believers in Islam we are less than human, arnt we, and Mohammad said to kill us all didnt he.

Remember if you sew the wind you will reap the whirlwind, Machmoed elchalid, please try and understand why the world feels the actions you defend are evil and wrong.
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to the Grand Kaffir of Infidelistan
written by mourad , December 17, 2009
peace for all the muslims and good morning every body ,
commenting on the message of the Grand Kaffir of Infidelistan , i'll say inshalla ; muslims of today are less tied to their religion it's a fact seen by anyone , but you know that their principles are high spiritual and more perfect , accusing some drunkards and powerful thiefs , i say they have no tie with islam but they are muslims , anyone who says the chahada can be a muslim but ellah judge your doings if good or bad , and muslims as christians are determined with internal as external factors all over the world not only in egypt , so did you see a perfect islam in the covernance now ? i think you know the difference between the governance of amr ibn el ass and moubarak , it's clearly appeared i mean the difference , amr ibn el ass gave security to the pope benjamin and he could enslave all the coptic , or he couldn't , surely you know that egypt at that time was only a roman harbor to take its goods , coptic people felt a religious freedom , a fact prooved even by christians , check about the writer yuhan anakiossi , يوحنا النقيوسي even if he lied many things about persecussion of muslims but he said many things which can be in the benefit of islamic history as the religious freedom for the coptic
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What would Mohammad do?
written by duh_swami , December 17, 2009
From post above... accusing some drunkards and powerful thiefs , i say they have no tie with islam but they are muslims , anyone who says the chahada can be a muslim but ellah judge your doings if good or bad ...

These Muslims you describe are not Muslims, they are apostates...Anyone who says shahada and then fails Allah, is an apostate...ella is watching and she is really hard to get along with...You should do your duty and report these apostates to the religious police of your city...You do know what Mohammad said about that...don't you?
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to Mr vbv
written by mourad , December 17, 2009
i have wrote answer for you but it seems unappropriate by the administrators here of this website , i'm sorry to say that i'm no longer a member because there is no freedom
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written by Machmoed , December 18, 2009
Saying it is OK because it is part of my 'religion' dosen't hold much water, as a matter of fact people who have sex with children dont last long even in prison.

What the hell you're talking about? Who's saying it's ok. Sex with children? it's demonic, don't you think.

US and Europe are nations, not ideologies. So you can't compare these with islam. To me islam is very simple...it's not from God or Allah or JHWH. The arabs developed this in approximately 200-300 years, even the Qur'an is developed over a period of almost 200 years and not 23 years. I believe that God is unchangeable and eternal. That's why i can't believe in the God that had manifested himself under three different characters (JHWH, Jesus (God of NT) and Allah) in a very short time (3000 years) . It is not the same and it can't be the same....to me ofcourse!
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To mourad
written by Archpagan , December 18, 2009
All the three semetic religions are conversion centric not God centric, only Hinduism is God centric. So, a devout Christian becomes a soul shopper, a devout Muslim, a blood-thirsty jehadi, whereas a devout Hindu renounce the world and become a mendicant. Semetic spirituality is nothing but a demonic political spirituality. If you really crave for genuine spirituaity with a God merciful to all, believer non-believer alike, you have to be a Hindu.
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From above...
written by duh_swami , December 18, 2009
If you really crave for genuine spirituaity with a God merciful to all, believer non-believer alike, you have to be a Hindu.

HMM, I don't think you have to be a Hindu, or subscribe to any particular religion...However there is much in the Hindu traditions that is worthy...The Rishi's were not fools.

An interesting word game...Take the A...Off the front of ABRAHAM and put it on the back...drop the third A and you have BRAHMA...Take the A from the front of ABRAM and put it on the back, and you have BRAMA...

Trippy huh...Doe's that sound a little Hindu to you?
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to Mr archpagan
written by mourad , December 18, 2009
good afternoon , i said before i don't know about your religion , all what i focussed in was about islam in the first , christianity and little knowledge about jewish religion . so i'm sorry to ignore about your way of thinking . there will be no matter if you can explain for us your big lines and titles , your most fidel books and religious men . thx
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To Mourad
written by Kafirwalah , December 18, 2009
You seem to be a moderate muslim who always swears that Islam is the religion of peace. You just open your eyes and look around. Who are committing the terrorist activities in every country, every part of the world today? Is it not the muslims? You may say, they are a misguided lot and compared to 1200 million muslims, they are a small minority only. But the fact remains that these people draw their energy from your holy scripture Quran. You may not have read Quran quite seriouly. There are many sentences in Quran inciting violence and cruelty to non- muslims. What do you say about it? Is it not a fact that , according to Quran, the only religion acceptable to Allah is Islam and all other people of other faiths are Allah's staunch enemies and the killing of these people is the moral duty of the muslims? The jihadis, read terrorists are only following these dictates in letter and spirit. If you think the jihadis are misguided, you are the person who actually is misguided. You also seem to think that Mohammed is the greatest man who ever lived in this world. Tell me in which way we can call him a great man? He was a wayside robber and a charlatan. All muslims claim that he is a prophet. How can he be a prophet, I wonder. During his time he enjoyed and took maximum benefit of the social evils like slavery, polygamy, child marriage etc. etc. and opposed only the marginal vices like drinking, gambling etc. He also opposed the harmless multi- god concept. According to him that was the greatest crime one can commit. You analyse these things. I am sure you will find that Mohammed was the greatest conman in history. Just see how many millions of people continue to be duped by this false prophet even today.
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answer of kafirwalah
written by mourad , December 19, 2009
ask for truth , i will answer you as i did many time with others , but since you are insulting us and our prophet , you are not the kind of people i communicate with . sne dme question with respect i'll answer you , but insulting islam and muslims is not a good way , up to you to decide
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Imperialist Islam
written by Gnubnoc , December 19, 2009
Sure, any Muslim loves to point at Europe or America and spout rhetoric about Imperialism. What do you call Persia, Afghanistan, Pakistan and half of India. What do you call the vast tracts of land that span from Morocco to Indonesia. The Imperial colonies of Europe collapsed into irrelevance a century ago. The imperialist march of Islam continues today in Somalia, Kenya, Sudan. From Eastern Bloc Europe to Western China. Lets not also forget that this march has been ongoing for 1000 years before the Great Satan ever existed.

Its just like the Crusades. Muslims conveniently forget that Christians and Jews didnt just pick up and leave the Levant of thier own accord. they were persecuted and subjugated for centuries. The "Crusaders" were just taking back what was thiers for centuries before Islam even existed. Just ask the Egyptian Copts.
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To Mourad
written by Kafirwalah , December 19, 2009
You don't have any defence, that's why you are accusing me of insulting Islam and your beloved prophet. I was not insulting anything or anybody. I was simply stating facts. The problem is that we cannot tell anything about Mohammed other than eulogising him. You people take even simple things as insult. Is it not a fact that he assembled a small army and plundered the caravans and distributed the booty among his men, taking one fifth of the booty for himself? Later on he developed this group into an army and fought with different tribes of Arabia and decimated all of them? Is it not a fact that he married more than ten women including a nine year old child? Is it not a fact that he kept a number of concubines or slave girls? These things are real incidents that happened during his lifetime. Why you are so intolerent as to describe these facts as insult to Islam and Mohammed? I don't understand the logic. Now you ask yourself whether these should be the deeds of a real prophet. You just cannot escape stating that these are all normal deeds of people living in that era. I believe that a prophet, if he is the messenger of God, should correct the people who indulge in this kind of activities and set an example by his life. In my analysis, Mohammed fails miserably in that respect. Undoubtedly he is a false prophet. Let alone a prophet, he was not a good human being even. He was a plunderer, a robber and a war lord too. He destroyed the fabric of Arabian tribal culture and in its place created Arab nationalism and spread it through sword. May be it is a great thing for the Muslims the world over. But, I don't think so. The Arabian tribal culture, had it existed today would have been much much better.
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Why we insult Islam and shame Muslims
written by Demsci , December 20, 2009
Yes, Mourad, our side is indeed often insulting, ridiculing Mohammed, your prophet, and shaming the Muslims for believing in Islam and following it to the letter.

But that is still no more than what free people are doing daily everywhere with many other historical beloved people, political beloved people, or other beloved people, like soccerplayers, actors/ actresses etc. Criticism, Insulting, ridiculing, shaming is never going to go away.

But; YOU can get away from it, you are not obligated to listen or respond. But if you want to respond you cannot do so demanding some kind of right of “you not being offended”. No body has that right, especially not powerful and beloved people in democratic countries.

And it is not like Muslims refrain from it either in the opposite direction. Witness the terrible anti-Jewish, anti-American rhetoric among many Muslims. So why do you insist that Mohammed, Islam and Muslims must be exceptions to this rule?!

You don’t have to respond. But …. Would you respond to kind and careful loving criticism, as you now say you do, without the insults prior to it? If you Muslims, were always treated nicely and never insulted, I think you then would not even bother to think about the criticisms. You would tell us: Later, later, now we have many problems in daily life that we must attend to.

Your sweet criticisms are legitimate but not urgent, and really we are powerless to do something about it. And you would laugh at the sweet criticizers and change the subject every time after a few minutes. Moreover you would tell the world; Islam is the best and we can prove that by showing that no one is insulting it!!!

THAT is why finally many criticizers have become desperate and insulting!
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answer the blindness
written by mourad , December 20, 2009
salam for all the muslims and good morning every body ,
answer to Mr kafirwalah ;
1 - yes , you have to respect Mohammed because he is the light to enlighten earth and what surrounded it , you will respect him because we respect moses , jesus and all prophets and good people ... no because i asked you but because i remind you .
2 - you seem to me as a person who look after some informations about him , i'll tell you ; you denounced him of making an army , tell me ; how many times koreich people did hurt him with every possible mean , they punched him on face , they tortured him and his friends , they burnt their houses in their city ( mecca ) they asked young childrean to throw stones on his body when he was preaching , they cut all relationship with all his followers and helpers , no food , no water nothing to live and more than that they tortured the poorest among them . they fired him from his city , they incited other people not to believe him and his message ( like they did with pilgrims and they followed the believers to abacena and they incited el najachi to fire them from his country ) they said he is foolish , they said he's a poet ( a dreamer ) and even a sorcerer . all that and more much why ? !!!! because he said i won't believe in stones to be my god , i already believed in god the creator , the most powerful and the allmighty . this is why they made everything bad against him for a wor he said . then put in your mind that he didn't attack any tribe for years even when he was a leader of the believers but they were just defending against disbelievers attacks . then after all what they did to him he forgive merely all mecca and he entered in 10 hidjri to mecca peacefully . this is to show you that most of the battles he had were done by force then he used to attack them to prevent them attacking his capital city . the case with abroad differs , you know through books of seerah that he sent his messengers to all the nations next to the arabic peninsula , the answers were differents , like take an example of al bahrain kingdom ; they accepted islam and they used to manage their nation under islamic rules . yemen also , habacenia was different because the king accepted islam but most of his people did not do . in the case of egypt , al mukaukas , king of egypt did reply peacefully as we know that you mohammed is the messenger of god but they did not accpet islam because it does not look appropriate to the kind of ife they enjoyed . for eastern rome , the answer changed after accepting islam in the first time , they did change their minds and the prophet mohammed PBUH did know that . finally the king of persia "kisra" , he cut the letter and ordered his allied force of yemen to bring him a man who said he is a new prophet , you know the story of the two yamani people who came to the prophet to take him peacefully because they don't disturb an army for an arabian . when he said that kisra is dead , they were astonished with his answer for kisra's call and so on.... , put in your mind if you are looking for truth without arrogance , al ghaassina , a big and famous arabian tribe an allied force to the romans had killed many muslims' preachers . why ? !!! simply because they were spreading all over the south of their borders . what if they left them peacefully invite people to their religion ; if it's a true concept people will follow if not people will judge them . but no , surely it was inappropriate to their governors new concepts which talk about equality of all mankind . look always when you open doors for conversations people do believe in islam ,and i'm not lying look at the time now , many lyers are creating anything to weaken the image of purity which islam has from islamists , jews , christians and many others . it does not mean that all non-muslims are accomplices , no ! but i'm talking about those who changed our image even among us ( i mean some misguided muslims ) when you close the doors for islam we should fight the king's slaves to free all the people and let them know about reality , after all surely you know what persians were worshiping ! myserable , most of arabians also did worshipon stones to be their gods . talking about slavery , islam did not create slavery and you know that , it's because it seemed an ordinary and common lifestyle that islam did not fight it and slaves in islam had fuul rights not as people think now , they can marry anyone both noble and slaves , they could lead an army , they could be a preacher , they could accept and refuse , all their rights were garanted by islam and you know the story of zayed who was called "zayd ibn mohammed" and his son "oussama" who was a leader of an army and under him were abu bakr , omar , and many close friends to the prophet Mohammed PBUH .
you told people that mohammed robbed caravans in the peninsula , is not a lie this one , did not you consider their loss in mecca him and all his friends , they came to medine without a dinar , no clothes , no jewelery , no money , nothing at all , all was robbed by kuffar of mecca .
Mohammed PBUH had turned people who lived with vein , worshippers of stones , killers of their daughters , thieves and at best traders with deception , he turned them to honnest people , people who lived to spread the religion of allah , don't you notice the difference . wallah even blind people do notice that but arrogants keep following some of our mistakes to blame islam
i tell all the readers here and i don't lie inshallah , if you Mr kafirwalah consider that because of some mistakes of a small part in this ummah who don't differentiate between the right path and the wrong one and whom they kill people under the name of islam , for those thousands at best you accused all the others to misunderstand islam's message as you did accuse me an ummah which contains about more than 1 billion and four hundred millions of people . people in many nations are defending their lives , honours , money and religions , in irak , palestine , chechenia , afghanistan and many other places . plz tell me ; what do you call the colonizers of israel , france , england , spain , US , holland , belgium , russia , germany , those who bited nations and burnt houses , killed their men and raped their girls and women , what do you call all these christians , jews , atheists and many others who burnt mosquees and replaced some mosquees to be stable for horses like they did in algeria . surely you have an answer for me because you are one of them and at best you didn't support them . thx for ur time and seeya
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to Mr Demsci
written by mourad , December 20, 2009
salam to all muslims and good morning to the members here ,
i see that you don't differentiate between actors , celebrities who run after fame and money and spend their honours and every possible mean and way to be heard with the best man ever walked on earth surely you have no idea about what you are talking about ! but since you ask for something i will answer you inshallah ; well i'm here and i'm reading some insults , yes , but i'm here for a reason not randomly as may many people are doing ( negative presence ) i'm here to say a right word because i know . a good french thinker said that the importance of a personality who change the world can be tested under ;
- the smallness of means and support .
- the greatness of goals and objectives .
- the outstanding results .
and he said ; if we consider thoses main points we can conclude that Mohammed is the greater man who ever made the big change in the history of mankind . ( to inform you this man is not a muslim and he was not born in an islamic nation but in france ) if you are objective and someone who does not talk for talking without goals and abjectives next time when you compare Mohammed the prophet compare him with somebody who was merely in the same weight in the balance , like prophets if you want . not with hookers , whores and gays whom you want to be their fan .
islam did spread because it has the proof which well thinkers look for not because did not criticise it , and people like you did serve islam more then causing bad results to its message . many people have heard about islam through its ennemies and then they became muslims , so think before writing and next time if i find a silly question i won't respond on you , i'm not disrespecting you but i attack this stupidity in you . thx and good time
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Very childish post
written by John , December 21, 2009
Not scholarly at all. If Muhammad was already rich and powerful, why did he endure the years of hardships and turmoil that were triggered by him accepting Islam? Doesn't make much sense does it? I thought he allegedly created the entire act in order to attain wealth/

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Mourad, I think nobody, not even Mohammed can be exempted from criticism and ridicule
written by Demsci , December 21, 2009
Mourad,
Maybe I said it a little clumsily, but I do differentiate between Mohammed and actors and more ordinary people. But in my post I also mentioned historically important and beloved people and politically beloved people. Let us say; Gandhi, Martin Luther, Martin Luther King, Mother Theresa, Churchill, even Jesus himself. I was trying to say that each in their own time and later had fierce critics, there was even often ridicule for them too. And Muslims themselves also criticize and ridicule often, thus hurting the feelings of others as well.

And so, I say that Mohammed and the Islamic faith too are going to be criticized and insulted, inevitably and rightly so. But together with that also respected a lot by a lot of people. I get the impression from many Muslims and well-meaning people that they think and demand that Mohammed and the Islamic faith should be exempted from that and I emphatically think they should not.

And I emphasized that in my opinion, many people just don’t respond to politeful, respectful criticism, but just have to be shocked. Otherwise they will shrug off all attempts of peaceful criticism. But when hard and long provoked by some hardliners they then will be willing to reason with other more moderate critics. And only then be interested and making progress. And many Muslims fit that bill, in my experience. Though of course it is a trait many humans have.

You said you respected me but attacked the stupidity in me. That is what the majority of writers and posters here think about Muslims; perfectly allright people, except for some stupid parts of Islam in their minds. I myself humbly accept that I have faults, flaws and shortcomings in me.
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written by Machmoed elchalid , December 22, 2009
The prophet of islam is been rediculed by arabs themselfes. Everything that we know about the prophet is from muslims.....and now you're insulted by nun-muslims because they repeat facts/opions that is written about islam/muhammad...are you confused?
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written by Machmoed elchalid , December 22, 2009
because he said i won't believe in stones to be my god , i already believed in god the creator , the most powerful and the allmighty.

It's a shame he gave in when it comes to the stone of Ishtar (black stone). The prophet and his compagnies prayed 6 years (624-630 A.D.) to the ka'ba while it was full of rocks and god's....hmmmm....he wouldn't believe in stones he! Could you explain me why he prayed to the Ka'ba while it's full of other Gods?
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Muhammad was poor in...
written by Steve , December 22, 2009
spirit, kindness, forgiveness, logic, rationality, love, mercy, compassion and all the other good qualities decent human beings possess.
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written by Machmoed elchalid , December 22, 2009
The saddest thing is that the prophet wasn't that bad in comparison with some of his followers. Ali wanted everyone killed. Umar was a savage and cruel man...that's why the siites hates the gutds of this caliph who had left no evidence whatsoever....lack of evidence is a typical thing in islam.
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To Mourad
written by Kafirwalah , December 22, 2009
I hope you will agree that Mohammed was born into the tribe of qureshis. Now you complain that qureshis persecuted him and his small group of followers when Mohammed started his preaching. But, what was Mohd. doing? He was mercilessly criticising and ridiculing the age-old beliefs of qureshis like worshipping 360 gods, idols etc. etc. The qureshis so many times asked Mohd. to stop his vilifying compaign. He never paid any attention to it. In fact, it was his uncle Abu Taliq who went and apologised to the qureshi leaders and pacified them on behalf of his nephew. Eventhough he did that out of love for his nephew, he knew that Mohammed was not a straight forward person and an imposter only. That is why he refused to join Islam till his last breath. How can you find fault with the qureshis? They could have killed Mohd. for his outbursts ridiculing their faith and practices. But, they never harmed him. Before long a stage came when they had to take some action. Expecting this, very cleverly Mohd. fled Mecca and took shelter in Madina. Now suppose muslims were in place of qureshis. They would have lynched their critic. Take for example, even in the 20th century how muslims are behaving? What was the response of Muslims to the innocuous remarks of Pope Benedict XVI to the effect that Mohammed never brought anything new and that he did some evil things only. In fact, what he said is absolutely true. How many christians were butchered by muslims in different parts of the world as a result of Pope's remarks? How can you claim Islam is a peaceful religion? I must be extremely stupid to admit that claim. Coming back to Mohd., in Madina what he did? He formed a small army of mercenaries and plundered and looted all caravans passing thru the desert near Madina. Everybody knows that from that beginning what Mohd. did and where he reached. How many wars he fought in self- defence? Historians say only one. The other wars numbering around eighty he fought just for expansion of his feifdom. In the process, how many people he killed and how many destitutes he created? He fought with all the tribes in Arabia on flimsy grounds and annihilated all men who refused to join Islam. Can you deny these facts? I am asking you again in which way he was the light to enlighten the world and surroundings? I can only find him as the representative of satan. You may be respecting Moses, Jesus etc. As far as I know they have not done any destructive work like Mohd. did. Mohd. never said anything against the major social evils of his time viz. slavery, polygamy, child molestation etc. In fact, he merrily practised all these vices to the brim and advocated against small vices like drinking, gambling, usury, idol worshipping, multi- god concept etc. In any society there will be a small section of the people who indulge in drinking, gambling, usury etc. From time immemorial till this day that is the case. Multi-god and idol worship are harmless in so far as it doesnot harm anybody. Hindus in India are worshipping many gods and idols. Compared to their neighbours, muslims in Pakistan, how much progressive and developed Indians are. Mr. Mourad should spare a little time to critically examine these things.
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to Mr Demsci
written by mourad , December 22, 2009
peace be upon all who follows islam and good morning every body ,
1 - if all challengers of islam among the leaders of churches and other religions are either defeated or converted into islam from the time of Mohammed PBUH and untill now , people should understand the truth of this message , our prophet came to be the all world wide saver from ignorance and darkness , he was the best arabian speaker and the most courageous man and the best father and the best husband and the best father , the real leader and the most serious peace maker .
you can criticise any muslim but our prophet ask about him but do not accuse him and never disrespect him . thank you for your consideration which i felt in your message and hope you can answer some of my questions ;
1 - if Mohammed PBUH is not a prphet ? what do you consider him and based on what you have said so ?
2 - is Mohammed a money and fame seeker ?
3 - if islam is based on lies how do you think it's mentionned in the Qur'an that ;
- this Qur'an will remain without deviation in the text .
- this new religion will be heard and will dominate eventhough he was suffering .
- how he could defeat all the disbelievers in the world in the same time ( rome / persia / egypt / hebecenia / arab peninsula / and all existed nations which did not believe in islam message . ?
- how we was sure to defeat persia after the death of 14 kisras (kings) which took 4 years ?
- have you red about the islamisation of yemen ? read the way they became muslims .
-Qur'an is full of miracles and still we are discovering its meanings ; the prophet said that romans will defeat persians and they were weaker at that time , the drinkable and non drinkable water in the same place between bresil and argentina , the mummy of pharaoh , and all the verses which talk about the skies and the cosmos , something which can not be seen at that time .
- he was not a jewish and not a christian but he did not pray and worship stones ? was not allah who protected him .
- the messenger promessed his followers that they will open cham (syria, lebanon , jorday and palestine ) al madaiin ( persia ) and eastern rome (turkia). how could he do especially that he was under threats of all arab disbelievers ? and he promessed suraka with kisra bracelet ?
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to Machmoed elchalid
written by mourad , December 22, 2009
our prophet did insult the stupidity to worship stones and it's a proof that he didn't renovelled the stories but it was the message of god , even if it was so risky but he was courageous enough and honnest enough . the prophet prayed god in all the places where he was , under pression , in good times , in position , under fear , in the medina , in mecca before and after the message . the Ka'ba is a sacred house and it has many significances for us and all abraham's followers , this house is the first building in this earth . allah exist every where and anytime , no vacation , no absence ,no sleeping . whenever you ask god for anything , god heard him , and god answer any seeker in the appropriate time . hope i did answered you / and sir if you continue disrespecting the prophet , you don't deserve an answer i think , i don't ask you to believe he was the prophet but to respect this human being .
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to Kafirwalah
written by mourad , December 22, 2009
you said " But, they never harmed him. Before long a stage came when they had to take some action." proove this
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to Kafirwalah
written by mourad , December 22, 2009
"you said they could kill him ", wallah they tried many times but allah said no by keeping his message expanding and his word taking leadership and supremacy . i think you have many lies in your head , hope you can correct all these mistakes .
"Coming back to Mohd., in Madina what he did?" , is it true that you don't see what the prophet did ? making a nation based on faith , unifying the arabs , stopping all bad habbits in the arabic culture (nudity , wine , prostitution , interest in trade , wars raid , tribalism , worshipping stones ... ) , spread of tolerance and all morals in the peninsula after it became under islam rules . all this and more is nothing in your point of view . what possible outset can be noticed by you sir if all this is nothing
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to kafir walah
written by mourad , December 22, 2009
you are measuring greatness of islam with the economic success of pakistan , is it a serious question ? !!! this is meaning to believe all in islam from 7 th century untill the 17 or 18 th cent and then we think if we follow catholics , protestants or atheists , now according to you which nation is the first economically , tell me may be i'll will know through your answer which one will be your direction , either you will be christian or atheist ! is it a measure , the economic success , you answer this question .
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To Mourad
written by Kafirwalah , December 23, 2009
You are not answering any of my questions. Instead, you are simply repeating your argument that Mohd. was indeed a prophet and that he did many great things. Now you bring forth the viewpoint that he was singlehandedly responsible for the birth and spread of Arab nationalism not only in the Arabian peninsula and Egypt, but also as far away as Turkey. You also seem to suggest that eventhough he was wronged by his opponents many times, as he was a prophet, Allah was very benevolent towards him and protected him in all adversities and strengthened his hands to accomplish whatever he did during his lifetime. In other words, the victories and great deeds of Mohd. itself are the proof for his prophethood. So far I have been trying to convince you that all your above claims are simply humbug. When you claim that he created Arab nationalism, you forget that he destroyed the erstwhile splendid Arab tribal culture. Likewise he and his followers destroyed the magnificent Pertian, Mesopotamian, Syrian, Isrealite, Egyptian and the Byzzantaine cultures without any mercy and in its place, placed the Islamic culture which is retrograde and backward by any standards. If the above cultures were left to exist, these countries would have been the centre of the world today! Because Islam was thrust upon these people in the seventh and subsequent centuiries, there has been no progress ever since. Tell me is there any Islamic country which will come in the first 20 developed countries in the world? Take any index, other than growth of population and illiteracy, these countries are lagging far behind. Why? You ask me whether economic growth is the scale to measure the greatness of Islam. Of course, it is one of the indices. You claimed that Allah protected Mohd. his last prophet. You answer me 2-3 simple questions. Why Allah didnot give him a son? Mohd. was dying to have a son. He claimed the child of Maria as his son.( Some nasty infidels say that it was not his son.) When the child fell sick at the age of 18 months or so, did not Mohd. pray to Allah for 2 days continuously sitting near the child's bedside? Why the child did not survive? Why Allah was so heartless as to turn a deaf ear to Mohd.'s prayers? The same Allah who was benevolent enough to invite Mohd. to the heaven and show all his architectural and creative expertise did not answer Mohd.'s fervent prayers on this occasion. Why? In the wars fought by Mohd. also, it is said that Allah helped him a lot and that is the reason he could win over his opponents' mammoth armies. Even Mohd. said that in the Badr war, Allah sent an army of malaks to fight with the muslims and that is how they had won. Well, you also claimed that with Allah's help only muslims could win all over Arabian peninsula, Northern Africa and a part of Europe also. What Allah has proclaimed thru Mohd.? If the muslims are steadfast they can win over even a 10 fold stronger army. My question is- why the muslims do not win nowadays? For the last 150 years or so, ie. after the invention of dynamite by the infidels to be exact, there is no victory registered by muslims anywhere in the world. Why? Where is Allah? Why he is not helping the muslims as in the previous centuries? In my opinion, muslims are most steadfast in their beliefs, actions and battles now more than at any point of time in history. Still, it is sad that Allah is playing foul. Of course these questions are based on quran and the prophet's sunna. I have got some more questions to ask you. Let it be later. In the mean time, may the lone entity Allah without any partners or helpers give you wisdom and proper guidance!
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to kafirwalah
written by mourad , December 23, 2009
peace be upon you muslims and good morning everybody , then :
i see in your last message that you kept some questions in your possession to give me time answer your first questions , i said it's ok , since you want to make a deal i'm also ready for that . for the information i did not want to be here with peaple who hate us and who disrespect us , when i saw islam watch i understood that it could be an islamic website , when i discovered the reality i said it's ok . i'll wait and see . we are not objective since we are not making a progress in our conversations i'll remind you of the most important points of our conversations together ;
*my 1st message contains ;
- my story about how kings replied the call of the messenger PBUH .
- prophet's main character .
*ur 1st message contains ;
- you cited the story of the terrorist activities which is islamist .
- you accused all muslims who don't fight that we didn't read the Qur'an seriously because the terrorists referred to some verses in the Qur'an as they said .
- you said killing the islam ennemies is the duty of all muslims .
- you accused me to be misguided because i'm not a terrorist .
- you insulted our prophet .
* my 2nd message ; then i asked you to be respectful otherwise there is no conversation between me and you .
* ur 2nd message contains ;
- a deny to insult the character of Mohammed PBUH .
- you talked about tribalism as being something marvelous .
* my 3 rd message contains ;
- i made an explanation about the necissity of making battles .
- i mentionned an explanation about slavery and preaching .
and i mentionned a question you did not answer it about of the colonizers of europe and US which they led a crusade war against muslims in merely all the world .
* ur 3rd message contains ;
- you mentionned the conflict which has been occured when the prophet PBUH had disrespect gods' of the arabs (koreish).
- you said there is only one self defence war , all the others are attacking battles .
*my 4th message contains ;
- i asked you to proove that koreish did not hurt mohammed untill long years have been passed and mohammed PBUH was still harming them .
- î replied on "they ( koreish) could kill the prophet but they were patients with him .
- i talked about some achievements of the prophet in medina
*my 5th message contains ;
i asked if the economic aspect is the detector for the truth of any religion
ur 4th message contains ;
- you accused me not to be serious in answering ur questions.
- u repeated ur idea about the splendid arab tribal culture as a marvelous thing.
- allah's help to the prophet and the muslims .
now i'm going to answer your last message questions :
1- a - logic says that power is in the unit , arab tribes had the same culture , the same language , the same destiny , the same character , they glorify the same things (idols , kaa'ba ...) , they have the same history , the same piece of land geographically and many things in between ... , so is not better to unify those people under one religion based on allah's word . i think the european union is a biggest sample of the union to people who shared no common language , no common religion , and they have many differences in their lifestyle , but they accepted to unify because they knew that power exist in the mass , and no body can deny this fact .
b - it's also known that people gather and unify strongly under the name of religion than to be unified under economic profits and mutual benefits .
2 - islam civilisation had brought many changes in every domain and field , take the example of the numbers which is used in all the world now , is not an islamic thoughts ? take the example of the watch which was a gift for the king of france and he did not discover what it was , the linguistics as a common feature between languages , is not an islamic , + the islamic style of building ( look at the example of the masjid in grenada spain ) , compare the civilisation which was in spain with france which was still christian .... and many other things . you can see the muslims' medieval inventions and scientific contribution .
- even if Mohammed PBUH was the last prophet , the best slave and the most guided creature , the more closed creature to allah , all these characteristics did not allow him make something allah did not want to be , ibrahim ( god bless him ) was died , and before him all of abd ellah ( his father ), amina ( his mother ) , abu talib (his uncle ) , abu talib ( his grand father ) , khadidja ( his wife ) . and it's surely that it's no one's power to save his fathers or sons from death even the prophet . later on he was died , are you going to ask me why did he die ?
- mohammed spread over the arab peninsula the islam , and arabic is only the language of this religion , there were in the prophet's time a sahabi (friend) who did not pray to god but because he was sincere and because he was died in the field he was promissed to be in paradise . was it a condition to be arab to be a muslim ? never , and last time i gave the example of al albani who was from albania .
- allah said that : "God does not change the condition of a people until they change it themselves" , it's because that most of the people know that islam is the right word of ellah and do not practice carelessly. when crisis , you see many people return back to the religion and to proove that they know that islam is the right word of allah is that they don't agree to change their religion even if they don't practice their duties as praying .
* i'll give you an example to proove for you that algeria had bit france when it was colonized , or what do you think about the algerian revolution and be sure that france was not alone in its colonisation to algeria but it was a coalition led by france , there were spanish , italians and other european thieves , they spent 132 years but they were fired after a long battle against them . was not allah the helper there , france possessed a nuclear weapon and it was a measure of force and power at that time and still . what was happening in reality , they were full of fears , why is it because algerians had developped weapons , wallah no ! but because they had faith and most of people at that time were sincere , they did not want but shahada ( to die for allah ) . tell me about now , i'll answer you ; what was happening in irak , a best example is the battle of al felloudja ; did not make american marines be like girls full of fears , they are well covered but they want to be in this life but we muslims when it comes to the honour and defending the borders we like to be in the other life . i'm with all people who defend their lands . allah exist in all parts of this world and in the skies and in the parts where we don't know , because our knowledge is limitted .
- you talked about terrorist activities ; unfortunately , we are not the yakoza , cosa nostra , escobar , napoleon , hitler , stalin , bosh , blair and all the majors of israel .../ here i ask you what do you think about the creation of israel and the crushing machine led by the wicked and the malicious majors which in fact did not fight unless behind cover ? when answering this question remember that you have said that problems in this part of the world is made by islam .
there is no god but ellah , and mohammed is his messenger
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IS THE GOD OF THE BIBLE THE SAME WITH THE GOD OF THE QURAN?
written by Clement , December 24, 2009
There is a misconception about the identity of God that revealed Himself in the Bible and the one that revealed him in the Quran. For proper identification I am going to use certain parameter to distinguish the two. This will include the Name, the message, the character and example of the messenger, the foundation of family unit and value system, the propagation of the message, the assurance of salvation, the reliability of the word, the description of heaven, description of hell and the final judgement.
1.The name of the deity
The God that revealed Himself in the Bible is called Yahweh and in the Quran is called Allah. Ex 3:4 The Muslim must be given credit of sustaining the name of their God for 1400 years s now without ignoring or translating it into various Languages as Jews and Christian did to their God. The generic name for God in Arabic is Ilah and not Allah. This is made clearer in the confession of faith (sha’ada) which says there is no Ilah but Allah and Mohammed is his Massager. In the original Hebrew Language of the Old Testament, Yahweh was used 7000 times whereas in the English Translation alone the name is wrongly translated as Lord or God in the generic terms. Personal names are not supposed to be translated. If this is true it becomes clearer that the two deity are not same. There are many Quran verses and Hadith that prove Allah to be personal name of the Islamic God. There were about 360 personal gods that were being worship in Arabia during the time of Mohammed and Allah happens to be one of them. Others are al-lat (female) al-uzza, manat, the three daughters of Allah. This is confirm in the Quran and Hadith
Qur'an 53:19"Have you then seen or thought upon Al-Lat and Al-Uzza (two idols of the pagan Arabs), and considered another, the third (goddess), Manat (of the pagan deities)? What! for you sons, the male sex, and for Him, daughters, the female? Are yours the males and His the females? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!"
Tabari VI:110"When Muhammad brought a revelation from Allah canceling what Satan had cast on the tongue of His Prophet, the Quraysh said, 'Muhammad has repented of what he said concerning the position of our gods with Allah."
Qur'an 52:43"Have they an ilah (god) other than Allah? [An odd question to ask the Meccans since their primary deity was Allah.]"

Qur'an 21:107"Say: (Muhammad) 'It is revealed to me that your Ilah (God) is only one Ilah (God). Will you submit to His Will? But if they (disbelievers, Christians, and Jews) turn away (from Islam) say: 'I give notice (of war) to be known to all. But I know not whether the (torment which you are) promised and threatened is nigh or far."
Qur'an 20:8"Allah! There is no Ilah (God) save Him. His are the most beautiful Names. To Him belong the most beautiful attributes."
Ishaq:162"Abu Jahl met the Apostle and said, 'By Allah, Muhammad, you will either stop cursing our gods or we will curse the god you serve.' So the Qur'an verse was revealed, 'Do not insult those [gods] to whom they pray lest they curse God wrongfully through lack of knowledge.' [Qur'an 6:108] I have been told that the Apostle then refrained from cursing their gods, and began to call them to Allah [rather than Ar-Rahman]."

2.The message
The Yahweh of the Bible gave a message centre on love, mercy, compassion, judgement and redemption of the condemned world. John 3:16-18,36 The message of Allah is that of doom, violence ,condemnation without redemption.
Muslim:C31B20N4645"The Prophet said: 'Whoever cheerfully accepts Allah as his Lord, Islam as his Religion and Muhammad as his Apostle is necessarily entitled to enter Paradise.' Abu wondered at it and said: 'Messenger of Allah, repeat that for me.' He did that and said: 'There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth.' Abu said: 'What is that act?' He replied: 'Jihad in the Way of Allah! Jihad in Allah's Cause!'"
Qur'an:2:193"Fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief) and religion is only for Allah. But if they cease/desist, let there be no hostility except against infidel disbelievers."
Qur'an:2:217"They question you concerning fighting in the sacred month. Say: 'Fighting therein is a grave (matter); but to prevent access to Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, to expel its members, and polytheism are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they make you renegades from your religion. If any of you turn back and die in unbelief, your works will be lost and you will go to Hell. Surely those who believe and leave their homes to fight in Allah's Cause have the hope of Allah's mercy."
Qur'an:2:244"Fight in Allah's Cause, and know that Allah hears and knows all."
Qur'an:2:246"He said: 'Would you refrain from fighting if fighting were prescribed for you?' They said: 'How could we refuse to fight in Allah's Cause?'"
Ishaq:280"The Apostle prepared for war in pursuance of Allah's command to fight his enemies and to fight the infidels who Allah commanded him to fight."
Qur'an:61:2"O Muslims, why say one thing and do another? Grievously odious and hateful is it in the sight of Allah that you say that which you do not. Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in a battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure."
Qur'an 46:12"Before this was the Scripture Book of Moses [the Torah] as a guide. This Book [the Qur'an] confirms and verifies (it) in the Arabic tongue; to admonish the unjust, and as glad tidings to the good-doers."


3.The messenger
Yahweh sent Jesus Christ to set the standard of morality and Godly living .His love, compassion, mercies , faithfulness, faith, endurance, peace, meekness and goodness is unsurpassable But the example set by Mohammed the only and final massager of Allah are what not to do rather than what to do. Like polygamy, adultery, incest, murder, fighting , assassination, rape, terrorism ,idolatry, false witness, lust etc.
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Identity of Allah vs Yahweh continue
written by Clement , December 24, 2009

4.Foundation of family unit and value system
Yahweh in His institution of marriage which is the foundation of any sound society set it on two legs male and female just as human has two legs to balance on and walk and work and grow. But Allah’s institutions of marriage are on shaky foundation of one male and many females. Allah says M+4F=1. Allah made divorce easy for men and not for women. A
Woman has no equal right as man in the home, Husband are allowed to beat their wives.
Qur'an 4:3"If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with orphans, marry women of your choice who seem good to you, two or three or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to do justice (to so many), then only one, or (a slave) that you possess, that will be more suitable. And give the women their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, eat it with enjoyment, take it with right good cheer and absorb it (in your wealth)."
Tabari IX:113"Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."

5.The propagation of the message
Yahweh directed his message to be preached through peaceful persuasion without violence using miracle signs and wonders to prove to men the divinity of the message. Mat 28:19-20 Allah on the other hand directed that his message should be propagated by force threatening men hell and doom without signs and wonders or holy characters which would persuade men to believe.
Qur'an:8:39"Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."
Qur'an:8:39"So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."
Muslim:C9B1N33"The Prophet said: 'I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prostration prayer, and pay Zakat. If they do it, their blood and property are protected.'"
Bukhari:V4B53N386"Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: 'Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.'"
Muslim:C9B1N31"I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the Messenger and in all that I have brought."
Tabari VI:138"Those present at the oath of Aqabah had sworn an allegiance to Muhammad. It was a pledge of war against all men. Allah had permitted fighting."

6.Assurance of salvation
Yahweh assurance of salvation is based on the sacrifice of his son Jesus Christ for the atonement of the sin of man which must be received as a gift by faith to guarantee eternal life. Jn 1:12 This is followed by fruitful lives Gal 5:22-23 Sinners are transformed by the Power of God to be saints, missionaries, building schools, hospitals and orphanages, churches for healing deliverances for the good of mankind.
Allah’s salvation is based on works to be measured on the balance which can not be known now till the judgement day because Allah has already predestined those who will go to heaven even before they are born and those who will go to hell. Besides all Muslim will pass through hell before some are rescued from there. Also there are no visible good fruits to be seen except terrorism, religious intolerant, violence, women oppression, ignorance and backwardness in science and technology, poverty and stupidity.
Tabari I:202"There are people who consider predestination untrue. Then they consider the Qur'an untrue.... People merely carry out what is a foregone conclusion, decided by predestination and written down by the Pen."
Qur'an 97:1"We have revealed it (the Qur'an) in the Night of Predestination."
Bukhari:V6B60N473"Every created soul has his place written for him either in Paradise or in the Hell Fire. His happy or miserable fate is predetermined for him."
Qur'an 5:51"Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends."
Bukhari:V4B52N260"The Prophet said, 'If a Muslim discards his religion, kill him.'"

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To Mr. Mourad
written by Kafirwalah , December 25, 2009
Many of your statements hold no water and you are evading many of my questions too. Islamic culture in your opinion is preferable to the erstwhile Arabian tribal culture, because the language of the tribes is the same, the people are the same etc. etc. This is not correct. The tribes were using different dialects of Arabic and their traditions, beliefs, practices etc.also differed from tribe to tribe. In fact, the quran was written in the dialect of qureishis. In the initial stages quran written in other dialects was not acceptable. This is the case of Arabic. What about the languages of other areas like Pertian or Farsi(Iran), syriac( syria), Hebrew( Palestine) etc. etc. All these languages became almost non- existent when Islam spread. You claim that numbers, watch etc. are the contibutions of muslims. I don't think so . If at all these are contributions of Arabia or nearby nations like Egypt, these things were discovered or invented much before the advent of Islam, because there is hardly any discovery or scientific advancement under Islam anywhere in the world. How can a people who believe that all knowledge man needs to know is contained in quran find out anything? Forgive me my saying this- Islam is retrograde to the core in everything, be it knowledge or science or anything. It has not outgrown the 7 th century. Idon't have time, otherwise I would have explained it in detail. You also have not answered my questions on quran and Mohd. You ask me whether Mohd. should not have died, as he is a prophet. yes. my contention is that he should not have died at the age of 63. At least upto 100 years he should have lived. Remember Abu Afak, the jewish poet who was murdered by Mohd.s henchman on his orders as a result of his writing a poem criticising Mohd. was 120.(This also will go to show how Mohd. treated his critics.) Even Mohd. didn't know that at such an age he will die. Had he lived more, he would have married another 10 or 15 young maidens(even pre- pubescent children) is another thing. You couldn't also give a satisfactory answer to my question that why the Allah is not helping the muslims nowadays as before. Your ignorance is manifest in the reply that in Algeria it was Allah who helped the Algerians to defeat the French. What a joke! Mr. Mourad, listen. After the IInd world war, there was a rethinking in the minds of all European colonial powers and they decided to leave and free their colonies in Asia and Africa. That is how India, Indonesia, Malaya, Singapore, Ceylone, Algeria, Egypt and many other countries got their freedom. Was it Allah who liberated the kuffar countries also? You accuse me of hatred towards Islam and insult to Allah and Mohd. It is a fact that I am not amused by the Allah and Mohd. since theirs is the philosophy of hatred towards the non- muslims. I also reiterate my opinion that you are not a true muslim since you are not advocating the destruction of the kuffar people in the open. It is a fact that Allah said in quran that all infidels are unintelligent people. I am grateful to you for your having admitted that your Allah is not the ordinary God. That is why I call your Allah a demon. Let him give you abundant wisdom so as to work for the elimination of all kuffar people from this earth.
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To Mr. Mourad
written by Kafirwala , December 26, 2009
I could not cover all the points raised by you in my last post. So I continue. Regarding Arab culture, the tribes could retain their individualities and formed a confederation as in the case of many cultures of the world today. A common plank like Islam is not needed for that work. Nor the unity or common strength would have been any less. Another thing is that you seem to have mentioned that Hitler, Stalin etc. did more killings than any Islamic ruler. Hitler, Stalin etc. were tyrants and they committed the crime in the name of some ideology only which is more or less akin to Islam. As Islam claims to be a religion, it is to be compared with other religions, not with ideologies like nazism, communism etc. In that respect Islam is at the lowest rung. All other religions are progressive, forward looking and keeping pace with the times. The ideologies like Nazism, communism etc. are equally bad like Islam. Another thing I can’t stand is the zero level tolerance of the muslims. A few years back I was witness to a horrifying experience. A co- passenger of mine to Riyadh Airport had a Bible in his hands. At the Airport the Saudi customs officials took it away saying that Bible is not allowed to take into the country and before my co- passenger and myself they tore it into pieces and put it in a waste paper basket. I still remember the shock, disbelief and the sense of helplessness on his face! From your peculiar English I presume you are an Arab. Now tell me, is this the way you are respecting other religionists and other religions? Instead of Bible, just imagine if it was a quran in another country, what would have been your response? I am sure you would have made a hue and cry and your angry co- religionists would certainly cut off head of some innocent people in some parts of the world. How many people you have butchered in many parts of the world in the aftermath of the Danish cartoon and the Pope’s remarks controversies? If you are not respectful towards others’ faith, how can you expect them to respect your Allah and your beloved prophet, who during his lifetime committed heaps and heaps of sins and cruel acts only. Mr. Mourad, I have no hesitation to tell you that you are a brain-washed muslim zombie. That is why, parrot like you are repeating that there is no god other than Allah and Mohd. is his messenger. As a brain washed zombie, you lost the ability to put anything to reason. Otherwise you would have by now critically analysed the various deeds of Mohd. during his life time and found out that he is nothing more than a robber, a child molestor and a murderer all rolled into one and an imposter masquerading as a prophet.




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