It's the most ridiculous claim one could ever have made in history...
Dear Mr. Sina,
Muslims claim their religion is the oldest and only the truth and all human beings are born as Muslims but practice religion according to their upbringing. They claim people “revert” back to Islam and not convert to it. Could you please elaborate on this?
Muslims love lies. They live in perpetual self delusion. The claim that people are born Muslims and then indoctrinated into other faith is a ridiculous claim. If all children were born Muslim then one should see people who are not indoctrinated in any religion, would want to naturally believe in Islam. But this is not happening. In fact there is resistance and as the result Muslims try to sugarcoat Islam with 1001 lies to make it more palatable.
Also we are witnessing that even those who were indoctrinated in Islam leave it once they come to learn the unadulterated truth about it. The fallacy of this claim is self evident.
Islam is not a continuation of previous religions. Muhammad plagiarized heavily from the Old Testament, but the Islamic god and the biblical god are two very distinct deities, something that perhaps Muhammad himself did not know.
Originally, Muhammad tried to link himself to biblical prophets to bait the Jews and Christians of Arabia. He even used Jerusalem as his Qibla, but he presented no proof for his bogus claim and stopped talking so much about Biblical stories once he saw the so called people of Book do not buy his charade.
There is no mention of Muhammad in the Bible, except when Jesus warned his follower of false prophets. Jesus said you will recognize them by their fruits. Look at Muhammad’s fruits? Did he live a holy life? He was a despicable thug. He raided, raped and butchered innocent people and looted their belongings. This is enough for any sane person to know he was a false prophet. So why over a billion people think he was a prophet? The key word is “sane.” When it comes to beliefs people lose their sanity. They pride themselves in their foolishness and berate intelligence. Muslims leave their shoes and their brains outside the mosque.
Muslims say Islam is the natural religion. Imagine how preposterous this claim is. If it is natural why Muhammad established the institution of jihad? Why Islam should be spread by the sword? People would intuitively believe in a natural religion. Why force them? There is nothing natural in Islam. This faith is stupid and counterintuitive. Muhammad tricked people with the fear of hell and the promise of virgins, pearly boys (goodness gracious) and gardens with rivers of wine. The rituals of Islam are all unnatural. What these silly postures in prayer have to do with spirituality and worshipping? If these were natural people all over the world should know them intuitively, but they don’t and they have to be indoctrinated. Sex is natural. Getting hungry is natural. Getting angry under duress is natural. Believing in a higher power when you face a major problem is natural. But believing in the nonsense of Islam and its sadistic god of vengeance is not natural.
Fasting damages the health and makes one edgy. It is not natural and it does not make one spiritual. Muslims are most dangerous during the month of Ramadan. In this month they become beasts. These were the rituals of pagan Arabs whom Muhammad called ignorant, but copied their rites nonetheless. Now, thanks to Islam the practices of those ignorant people are practiced by Muslims all over the world.
Muslims claim Adam and all other prophets were Muslims. Where is the proof? The burden of proof is on them. Muslims confuse claim with evidence. They think Muhammad’s claim constitutes proof. This is the level of intelligence of these people who now want to dominate the world.
Islam has no relationship with Biblical religions. Unlike what Muslims think, Arabs worshiped Allah at least 2500 years before Muhammad. Muhammad’s father and many other Arabs were called Abdullah before Islam.
The Moon God
In the Ka’ba, there was a moon god called Hubal (Arabic: هبل ). This deity was the chief of all gods lodged in that pantheon. He was also referred to by his title al ilah (the god). Al lah is the short version of al ilah. In Arabic the definitive article joins the noun to form a single word allah. Allah is not a proper name. It is like calling the president of a country by his title, “the president”, but the president is not a proper name. Also in Arabic there is not capitalization of the proper name. Europeans capitalized the first letter of allah as it was already assumed to be a proper name.
There is no better evidence than the crescent placed over Muslim minarets that al ilah refers to Hubal the moon god of the Arabs.
Wikipedia says “Hubal was claimed to be a moon god, worshipped in Arabia, notably at Mecca before the arrival of Islam.”
Muslims deny that Hubal is the same Allah. If so, what is the meaning of the crescent in Islam? The evidence is overwhelming. Allah refers to Hubal. Hubal is the proper name of “the god”(al lah) that Muslims worship. .
If allah was a proper name and the same as Yahweh, why there is no mention of Allah in the Old and the New Testaments? It is preposterous to say the Biblical prophets were Muslims and believed in al lah of the Arabs.
Many rituals of Islam such as the postures during salaat, fasting during the month of Ramadan, ablution, tayyammum and hajj with all its rituals from circumvallating counter clockwise seven times about the Ka'ba, kissing the Black Stone, running back and forth between the hills of Al-Safa and Al-Marwah, drinking from the Zamzam Well, going to the plains of Mount Arafat and Stoning of the Devil, are relics of the Pagan religion of the Arabs. The shaving of heads, the animal sacrifice and Eid al-Adha are also pagan rituals. These rituals were not practiced or taught by any of the Biblical prophets that according to Mohammedans were Muslims. If they were Muslims why they did not pray as Muslims do or perform any of the rituals that they perform? Didn’t Muhammad say that these rituals of the pillars of Islam? How is it that Biblical prophets, who according to Muhammad were Muslims never performed these rituals?
The story that Ka’aba was built by Abraham is a myth. Why that old man would travels hundreds of kilometers with a new born baby to abandon his wife and his child in the middle of desert? Furthermore, the Bible says that Ismail, Hagar’s son, was a young man abusing his much younger brother Issac in Canaan. How could that happen if he was left in Mecca? There are plenty of holes in the Islamic narrative.
Those who translated the Bible to Arabic used the word allah to denote God. If by this they meant nothing more than al ilah (the God) then it’s correct. Just as several persons can be called the president, gods can be called al lah. When the Bible mentions allah it is referring to al ilah Yahweh and when the Quran talks about allah, it is referring to al ilah Hubal. Allah is a title. It means ‘the god’. It can be any god.
The Bible mentions al lah of Arabs by his name. Hubal is the same Baal of the Moabites. It is the Arabic for the Hebrew HaBaal, "the Baal.”
Muhammad never mentioned Hubal by his name. That is because everyone called Hubal by his title. When the British say ‘the Queen’, they know whom they are talking about. Elizabeth and the Queen are not two different persons. Likewise, Hubal is name of al ilah Arabs were invoking.
Muslims have to look no further than the ubiquitous crescent to know whom they are worshipping. The crescent is the smoking gun.
I hope this answers your question.
Ali Sina
Comments (58)
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written by Clement- The Islam-Iwatch Pastor , February 05, 2010
I can't say any better than you have done. God bless you. This has put to paid the fact that Allah was a moon God.If muslims want to serve yahweh then they should go beyond the Quran and the hadiths and read both the Old and the New Testament of the Bible to know Him. Cheers
written by Mohamed Shareef , February 05, 2010
Recently I asked a very pious muslim friend if he knows why we have the crescent as a sort of symbol of the religion Islam. He was surprised that he never thought of this before. I told him about Hubal, the moon god. Of course he was very upset and refused to believe me. I asked him to find out about what I told him, on his own. He said he did not want to find out about such things which might weaken his belief. So in reality many muslims just want to stay ignorant and follow Islam blindly.
written by Clement- The Islam-Iwatch Pastor , February 05, 2010
Is it the five pillars of Islam that is new that the prophet of Islam brought to World? No, all the rituals that constitutes the five pillars are pagan rituals long before Islam came to scene. Is it the stoning of the adulterers and the fornicators which has been deleted from the Quran but retained in the Hadiths? No, because that too was borrowed from the Old Testament of the Bible. Is it the tent-like covering of women, the beating of women, the raping of slave girls, the marrying of four wives, the 3 divorce shorts by the man “I divorce you, I divorce you, I divorce?” Yes that it is, Is the unique creation of the prophet of Islam. But this contradicts nature and fundamental human right. Is it the force conversion by the swards? Yes is another miracle of the Quran. But no religion ever was created by force except in Islam, could it be that their god is impotent to perform miracle in order to prove his divinity? Why should humans be involved in killing themselves on behalf of an impotent god? Muslims please think, it appears that there is something wrong with belief. Don’t you think Islam need reformation to remain relevant in this modern world?
written by vbv , February 05, 2010
Bullshit! Muslims claiming islam as the "oldest" religion. Firstly ,it is just arabian barbarianism sanctified with stories robbed and distorted from the Bible - and Bible itself is not the oldest scripture. It is just about 2,500 years old. The scriptures of Hindus,the ancient Egyptians are centuries older than the Bible. Muslims can,ofcourse, lay claim that their Koran is probably the oldest "BULLSHIT" in the world ,nothing more.
The koran has only plagiarised and distorted the tales from the Bible. It cannot stand on its own. Muslims have sanctified their barbaric cult by such plagiarising the Biblical tales. The main aim of the arabs is to promote arab supremacy and make a permanent sorce of income once theiroil-wealthis depleted.If the whole world is 'islamised' , they can fleece the non-arabs through the so-called "haj" ritual ,asperforming the "haj"is one of the five socalled 'pillars' of islam. Further ,with arabs claiming 'superiority,they can rule the world through their 'caliphate' issuing diktats ,fatwas and allsuch nonsense. The whole world will be a prison of zombified idiots while the arabs will be laughing all the way to their banks ,their coffers filled to the brim with the moneys doled out by the billionsof zombified idiots who will be petrified by "sharia" toeven raise a whimper of protest. These scheming arab bastards are going to foist a new for of colonialism that will be very hard ,perhaps even impossible, to overthrow or discard with billions of zombified idiots called muslim with no democracy or humanrights but just mullahcracy and sharia theatening them in every walk of life.
Islam is a cancer that shouldbe eradicated ,if the world is toescape thegloomy,dark fate that hangs on their heads ,should islam succeed. You need look no further than to the present socalled "islamic" countries to see what is in store forthe civilised human race.
The koran has only plagiarised and distorted the tales from the Bible. It cannot stand on its own. Muslims have sanctified their barbaric cult by such plagiarising the Biblical tales. The main aim of the arabs is to promote arab supremacy and make a permanent sorce of income once theiroil-wealthis depleted.If the whole world is 'islamised' , they can fleece the non-arabs through the so-called "haj" ritual ,asperforming the "haj"is one of the five socalled 'pillars' of islam. Further ,with arabs claiming 'superiority,they can rule the world through their 'caliphate' issuing diktats ,fatwas and allsuch nonsense. The whole world will be a prison of zombified idiots while the arabs will be laughing all the way to their banks ,their coffers filled to the brim with the moneys doled out by the billionsof zombified idiots who will be petrified by "sharia" toeven raise a whimper of protest. These scheming arab bastards are going to foist a new for of colonialism that will be very hard ,perhaps even impossible, to overthrow or discard with billions of zombified idiots called muslim with no democracy or humanrights but just mullahcracy and sharia theatening them in every walk of life.
Islam is a cancer that shouldbe eradicated ,if the world is toescape thegloomy,dark fate that hangs on their heads ,should islam succeed. You need look no further than to the present socalled "islamic" countries to see what is in store forthe civilised human race.
written by duh_swami , February 05, 2010
According to some, the word 'Muslim', means a believer in 'one' God...This would make all those who believe in a supreme being 'Muslims'...But that's where the technicality ends and opposing details begin...Details or no details the idea of 'born a Muslim' is a very shaky idea...We are supposed to believe that a new born, or even an unborn fetus, knows about the supreme being and worships him, even in the womb? And later possibly due to kufr, we forgot about Allah, and substituted an inferior god, or no god?...The entire subject is nonsense...No one is 'born' a Muslim...Islam has to be super imposed as the child grows, it is the product of long term brainwashing...No one was born with this affliction...it has to be learned...
written by ANSAR , February 05, 2010
All are born Muslims-
What is teh meaning of that? Is it menas all ar eborn beileving in Muhammed and Allah? No never.
What is the meaning of being a MUSLIM? Living in obidenace with the will of GOD. When a child is born what is its condition? it is born with full obidence of the will of GOD. What is will of GOD? Will of God is the law of nature, which the GOD stipulated, everything in nature follows the will of GOD, law of nature, except human beings. A fish can live only in watre - thats i slaw of nature thats i swill of GOD.
When a child is born its follwoing all the laws of nature - a MUSLIM, afterwards parents - society - and surroundings - country - mould that child according to their requirement and a image is created - according to religion - tribe - nation etc.... without grasping thsi simple thing started foul mouth against ISAlam and Muhammed.
Islam spread with sword, pleas etell me whcih warrior taken indonesia, pleas etell me -teh first mosque in Inida was built in Kerala, which army went to Kerala???
Bullshit -spreading page slike this ar eplenty and writers like ALISINA and AK ar emany - and readres who hates ISlam alos there many - it wont mak enay differnace....
Islam is the oldest religion menas its not the one that Muhammed P/b.u.h taught... oldest means people from teh time in memorial knows about the ONE GOD - you look teh hsitory of IN|DIA - many maharshis lived and beilived in the oneness of GOD not the pauls theory of trinity and anyone aware about teh cruelty of teh church????
What is teh meaning of that? Is it menas all ar eborn beileving in Muhammed and Allah? No never.
What is the meaning of being a MUSLIM? Living in obidenace with the will of GOD. When a child is born what is its condition? it is born with full obidence of the will of GOD. What is will of GOD? Will of God is the law of nature, which the GOD stipulated, everything in nature follows the will of GOD, law of nature, except human beings. A fish can live only in watre - thats i slaw of nature thats i swill of GOD.
When a child is born its follwoing all the laws of nature - a MUSLIM, afterwards parents - society - and surroundings - country - mould that child according to their requirement and a image is created - according to religion - tribe - nation etc.... without grasping thsi simple thing started foul mouth against ISAlam and Muhammed.
Islam spread with sword, pleas etell me whcih warrior taken indonesia, pleas etell me -teh first mosque in Inida was built in Kerala, which army went to Kerala???
Bullshit -spreading page slike this ar eplenty and writers like ALISINA and AK ar emany - and readres who hates ISlam alos there many - it wont mak enay differnace....
Islam is the oldest religion menas its not the one that Muhammed P/b.u.h taught... oldest means people from teh time in memorial knows about the ONE GOD - you look teh hsitory of IN|DIA - many maharshis lived and beilived in the oneness of GOD not the pauls theory of trinity and anyone aware about teh cruelty of teh church????
written by Machmoed , February 05, 2010
If it was true, all the males would have been born circumcised, but we (men) are not!
written by ANSAR , February 05, 2010
almost all the men can keep a beard - why they shave it clean??
written by Archpagan , February 05, 2010
Hey ANSAR unsaved beard attracts flies insects and mosquitoes, you know it very well.
written by Kohi , February 05, 2010
All born into this cult?::: shudder::: Thank god my parents used there FREEDOM to LEARN TRUTH and let there children find there own way with out this mindwashing cult shoved down out throat!
written by Kohi , February 05, 2010
Ansar you need to calm down your cult does not want you thinking to hard. And try spell check it would help you look less like dunderhead and maybe someone who can hold a conversation!
written by LingYa , February 05, 2010
Naturally everyone is born with full banana, so religion with full banana should be
natural religion. Miracle is creation not destruction, anyone can destroy,
even a dog can bit of your banana and run away to desert with the meat.
Its natural animal ego in cut bananas, which compel them to wish that everyone
should have cut banana because then everyone will come at par and they will not
have inferiority complex anymore. But humanity and moral height lies in enlightening and alerting others, so that they may not fall for the trap of cut banana cult, which Mr. M.A. Khan and other ex-Muslims are doing.
natural religion. Miracle is creation not destruction, anyone can destroy,
even a dog can bit of your banana and run away to desert with the meat.
Its natural animal ego in cut bananas, which compel them to wish that everyone
should have cut banana because then everyone will come at par and they will not
have inferiority complex anymore. But humanity and moral height lies in enlightening and alerting others, so that they may not fall for the trap of cut banana cult, which Mr. M.A. Khan and other ex-Muslims are doing.
written by Ary , February 05, 2010
Dear Anzar,
The subject of the article is to question the widespread claim that everyone is born a Muslim but practicing different religion according to their upbringings.This is the point of the the discussion. So please present logic and proper argument to support this claim that Islam is the first religion and everybody is naturally Muslim. Your claim cannot be justified by stating the fallacy - you believe that - of Christian Trinitarian doctrine which you claim to be a theory proposed by Paul. It does not say anything about the primacy of Islam and the nature of being a Muslim. By presenting the story of the establishment of Islam in Indonesia and India, or the false doctrine of the Trinity, you clearly try to divert the subject. It is like to claim that a thief is no longer a thief, even regarded as a holly man, because there is a worse neighbor living nearby. If Islam in Indonesia is so peaceful, how could you explain the jihad movement in Ambon and Poso, the widespread closure of churches and the banning christian worships in their respective houses because they are not allowed to have proper place of worship? Let me tell you a story my friend. Once we constructed a church in Surabaya in a rice field because no other place we could have. Some times later, Muslims also constructed the grand mosque of Surabaya, exactly next door to our church. You know what happened? They did not allow us to use our church, because they had not finished constructing their mosque. We did not care and went on with our worship. Later they also intimidated us for not erecting the tower-bell and putting a cross on the top of that tower. Again we ignored that intimidation and went on with our plan, because we were there before them after all. Being violent does not always mean using swords or other weapons, but also refers to all sort of intimidation that we often experience in Indonesia. Everybody is naturally born a Muslim? What a pathetic idea !!!!!
The subject of the article is to question the widespread claim that everyone is born a Muslim but practicing different religion according to their upbringings.This is the point of the the discussion. So please present logic and proper argument to support this claim that Islam is the first religion and everybody is naturally Muslim. Your claim cannot be justified by stating the fallacy - you believe that - of Christian Trinitarian doctrine which you claim to be a theory proposed by Paul. It does not say anything about the primacy of Islam and the nature of being a Muslim. By presenting the story of the establishment of Islam in Indonesia and India, or the false doctrine of the Trinity, you clearly try to divert the subject. It is like to claim that a thief is no longer a thief, even regarded as a holly man, because there is a worse neighbor living nearby. If Islam in Indonesia is so peaceful, how could you explain the jihad movement in Ambon and Poso, the widespread closure of churches and the banning christian worships in their respective houses because they are not allowed to have proper place of worship? Let me tell you a story my friend. Once we constructed a church in Surabaya in a rice field because no other place we could have. Some times later, Muslims also constructed the grand mosque of Surabaya, exactly next door to our church. You know what happened? They did not allow us to use our church, because they had not finished constructing their mosque. We did not care and went on with our worship. Later they also intimidated us for not erecting the tower-bell and putting a cross on the top of that tower. Again we ignored that intimidation and went on with our plan, because we were there before them after all. Being violent does not always mean using swords or other weapons, but also refers to all sort of intimidation that we often experience in Indonesia. Everybody is naturally born a Muslim? What a pathetic idea !!!!!
written by berq , February 05, 2010
A very good article by Mr,ali sina.Muslims always make very strang clamis about islam and they always failed miserably.I am waiting for someone muslim who can meet the challenge of Mr,sina.
written by Clement- The Islam-Iwatch Pastor , February 06, 2010
It is true that Mohammed plagiarised the Bible but he did not take anything of substance from the Bible to establish his cult belief system. The blood atonement the core rituals of the Old and the New Testament and the death and resurrection of Christ, the undeniable historical truth and centre of Christian faith he denied them all.
Therefore his plagiarism has no significance as far as Judeo-Christian faith is concerned. Those Bible stories which he bastardised were used only as to threaten the Arabs to submission to his authority as he planed to steal their kaaba pilgrim business from them.
Therefore his plagiarism has no significance as far as Judeo-Christian faith is concerned. Those Bible stories which he bastardised were used only as to threaten the Arabs to submission to his authority as he planed to steal their kaaba pilgrim business from them.
written by tali , February 06, 2010
if you ask any muslim when they became one they should not say "when i was born" or "i converted in..." they would say "scince the gathering of souls" in our religion, we beleive when we were created (our souls not our bodies) we were gathered and shown our lives. we saw every detail of them. this is why we sometimes experience a feeling of so called "day-sha-voo".
you may ask then why we are on this earth still if we already know whats going to happen. this is a simple question to answer. god is fair and it would not be fair to say "this is what you were going to do so heres heaven" to some and "here's what you yourself have forced me to give you" to others. we would not except this as justice. this life is for us to see for ourselves. this is why we do not require a ceromony to seal our faiths.
thoose who leave islam have been misguided about it's truths and some refuse to hear what their soul is telling them. it is a hard religion. but the truth is alays hard. is it not?
you beleive us muslims are ignorant and wish not to see the truth yet our religion prompts us to learn and grow. any questions we have should be addressed. every inkling of doubt should be wiped clear. we must seek answers. it is our way. but some even of the right faith choose to cloose their god given eyes and ears instead of questioning the answers they have been given. this saddens me.
if you wish to know the REAL TRUTHS about islam. please contact me on This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it '> This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
you may ask then why we are on this earth still if we already know whats going to happen. this is a simple question to answer. god is fair and it would not be fair to say "this is what you were going to do so heres heaven" to some and "here's what you yourself have forced me to give you" to others. we would not except this as justice. this life is for us to see for ourselves. this is why we do not require a ceromony to seal our faiths.
thoose who leave islam have been misguided about it's truths and some refuse to hear what their soul is telling them. it is a hard religion. but the truth is alays hard. is it not?
you beleive us muslims are ignorant and wish not to see the truth yet our religion prompts us to learn and grow. any questions we have should be addressed. every inkling of doubt should be wiped clear. we must seek answers. it is our way. but some even of the right faith choose to cloose their god given eyes and ears instead of questioning the answers they have been given. this saddens me.
if you wish to know the REAL TRUTHS about islam. please contact me on This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it '> This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
written by vbv , February 06, 2010
True all beings have to obey the laws of Nature ,and we ,humans, are an integral part of that Nature and we are all born as such in the same manner. To say that all are born muslims is absolute bullshit. Humans are born just as humans without the appendage of a cult. Stop your Allah-Muhamad- bullshit which came into existence only 1,400 years ago from the fertile imagination of a power-hungry,lecherous criminal who proclaimed himself a "prophet". Humans have evolved over millions of years and the concept of "god"/Allah'Yahweh,etc is just between 1400 to 3000 years, and monotheistic cults of west Asia is the worst and the most malignant disease known to humanity,claiming and usurping to itself everything that is convenient to propogate itself through the zeal of its mad adherents who will stoop to any level to foist their idealogy and cult on everyone through fraud,violence and treachery.
Therefore,nobody is born a muslim or any other bullshit - they are born just as humans ,that is all!
Therefore,nobody is born a muslim or any other bullshit - they are born just as humans ,that is all!
written by ANSAR , February 06, 2010
TO kohi - VBV -ARY
Hi KOHI th ebaby - yes I am calming down so people lik eyou can spread the BULLSHIT in site slike this.
Now to ARY - dear ARY - I read in the above BULLSHIT by ALI SINA that Islam was spread by sword - thats why I asked which army went to INDONESIA and KERALA - INDONESIA the country with highest Muslims in the world - and which army marched to Indonesia to spread Islam there? First mosque in Inida was built in Kerala ( now also that mosque is there - ofcourse renovated) which army marched to Kerala and built that Mosuqe. You got a site to sprea dmalice against a religion I know and only Bullshits against Islam can be read in thsi site also I know - so just amusing reading the bullshits of all those great scholars like AK and ALI SINA and the comments of heards. and nothing serious in thsi pages - just amusement...
Now to VBV - you didnt undersatd the meaningof RAABIC WORD MUSLIM - you just get vilent by thi snam elike SATAN seeing the CROSS. Jesus was a Muslim - meaning he lived submiting himslef to the will of God - thsi doesnt mena that he is the follower of Muhammed - GOT IT? just like all human being are born submiting to the will of GOD a MUSLIM - you - hope you ar enot seeing the cross and getting violent.
Have a nice day - and waiting to read mnay more bullshits....ha ha hahah
Hi KOHI th ebaby - yes I am calming down so people lik eyou can spread the BULLSHIT in site slike this.
Now to ARY - dear ARY - I read in the above BULLSHIT by ALI SINA that Islam was spread by sword - thats why I asked which army went to INDONESIA and KERALA - INDONESIA the country with highest Muslims in the world - and which army marched to Indonesia to spread Islam there? First mosque in Inida was built in Kerala ( now also that mosque is there - ofcourse renovated) which army marched to Kerala and built that Mosuqe. You got a site to sprea dmalice against a religion I know and only Bullshits against Islam can be read in thsi site also I know - so just amusing reading the bullshits of all those great scholars like AK and ALI SINA and the comments of heards. and nothing serious in thsi pages - just amusement...
Now to VBV - you didnt undersatd the meaningof RAABIC WORD MUSLIM - you just get vilent by thi snam elike SATAN seeing the CROSS. Jesus was a Muslim - meaning he lived submiting himslef to the will of God - thsi doesnt mena that he is the follower of Muhammed - GOT IT? just like all human being are born submiting to the will of GOD a MUSLIM - you - hope you ar enot seeing the cross and getting violent.
Have a nice day - and waiting to read mnay more bullshits....ha ha hahah
written by duh_swami , February 06, 2010
From post above..."i converted in..." they would say "scince the gathering of souls" in our religion, we beleive when we were created (our souls not our bodies) we were gathered and shown our lives. we saw every detail of them. this is why we sometimes experience a feeling of so called "day-sha-voo".
It's spelled déjà vu...but maybe 'day-sha-voo', has special meaning like Quran 3:1...'Alif lam Mim'...that only 'special' Muslims know about...
So Muslim souls gather in the astral somewhere, pre-birth, and are shown every detail of future lives...This is occult idealogy (not original to Islam) based on magical thinking...Can you show any evidence of this magic in the Quran or ahadith? I'm not so sure Allah approves of 'magical wishful thinking' from his submitters...
It's spelled déjà vu...but maybe 'day-sha-voo', has special meaning like Quran 3:1...'Alif lam Mim'...that only 'special' Muslims know about...
So Muslim souls gather in the astral somewhere, pre-birth, and are shown every detail of future lives...This is occult idealogy (not original to Islam) based on magical thinking...Can you show any evidence of this magic in the Quran or ahadith? I'm not so sure Allah approves of 'magical wishful thinking' from his submitters...
written by Healer_999 , February 06, 2010
"Jesus was a Muslim - meaning he lived submiting himslef to the will of God - thsi doesnt mena that he is the follower of Muhammed - GOT IT? just like all human being are born submiting to the will of GOD a MUSLIM".
What is this? It means what? You are literally changing the meaning of Muslim. Don't you think. Now the way Muslims are reacting to this article it looks they all believe this.
Lay man's under standing of Islam is this: Mohammad took the moon god of pagans. Then he added semitic(Abrahamic) theology and stories. Not sufficient with these he also added all the pagan rituals. So outcome is Islam. The worst thing about these founders of Islam is that they could't even copy properly.
Ansar , you should really get your History lesson right. Now coming to Kerala, people are regretting to have allowed those Arab traders. You must have seen that they already got Moppila rebellion. There was never any gratitude in Islamic behavior.
To Tali,
Soul. What soul? Please mention some verses in Koran mentioning your line of spirituality. You also mention that one fails to see truth. What is this truth? Please, some Muslim must mention what this truth is? Some Islamic sects might declare what you wrote as blasphemy.
What is this? It means what? You are literally changing the meaning of Muslim. Don't you think. Now the way Muslims are reacting to this article it looks they all believe this.
Lay man's under standing of Islam is this: Mohammad took the moon god of pagans. Then he added semitic(Abrahamic) theology and stories. Not sufficient with these he also added all the pagan rituals. So outcome is Islam. The worst thing about these founders of Islam is that they could't even copy properly.
Ansar , you should really get your History lesson right. Now coming to Kerala, people are regretting to have allowed those Arab traders. You must have seen that they already got Moppila rebellion. There was never any gratitude in Islamic behavior.
To Tali,
Soul. What soul? Please mention some verses in Koran mentioning your line of spirituality. You also mention that one fails to see truth. What is this truth? Please, some Muslim must mention what this truth is? Some Islamic sects might declare what you wrote as blasphemy.
written by Kafirwala , February 06, 2010
Congratulations Mr. Ansar! You have proved that you are a true muslim. Your ability to tell lies to glorify Islam is remarkable. Othrwise how can you deny the fact that Islam spread everywhere through sword only? Banu Quraysia and other jewish tribes in Arabia were removed from earth during the time of that desert bandit Mohammed itself, not by sword? How Islam spread to Persia, Mesopotamia, Palestine, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Byzantium etc.until the crusaders arrested it, was not by sword? You just cannot distort history. In India also Islam spread through muslim invasion and forcibly converting the hindus at the point of sword only. In Kerala also how many hindus were forcibly converted during the invasion of Tippu Sultan and later on during the infamous Mopla Rebellion? If you wish away all these wrong doings of Muslims in order to glorify Islam, what kind of a liar you are? I appreciate you. Salaam to thee.
written by berq to Ansar , February 06, 2010
Could you please read your own islamic history correctly.It is writen in the serat-e-ibn Hasham on page,no,818,v,2,that after the death of muhammad majorty of muslims had left the islam and many more wants to leave it,but Sohel ibn amro said,anyone who had left islam i will chop off his neck and any one who will leave I will kill him.So the people revert and remain muslim.Ali sina is right when he says that islam spread by sowrd.
written by Ary , February 07, 2010
To Anzar,
Do you know the cause of the downfall of the last Budhist Kingdom Majapahit? Do you have any knowledge about the "Perang Padri" - Padri War - in Sumatera?
But the most important thing is what has currently happened: do you know anything about the closure of hundreds of churches for the last ten years, the ban of christian worships in houses or schools because they do not have churches and would not get permission to construct their churches and other systematic forms of intimidation and persecution?
You might argue, there is nor army marching in, but you miss the point: the violence committed by some Muslims in the name of Islam.
Do you know the cause of the downfall of the last Budhist Kingdom Majapahit? Do you have any knowledge about the "Perang Padri" - Padri War - in Sumatera?
But the most important thing is what has currently happened: do you know anything about the closure of hundreds of churches for the last ten years, the ban of christian worships in houses or schools because they do not have churches and would not get permission to construct their churches and other systematic forms of intimidation and persecution?
You might argue, there is nor army marching in, but you miss the point: the violence committed by some Muslims in the name of Islam.
written by proud infidel , February 07, 2010
I was not born a muslim, and until I die, I will remain an infidel, kafira or whatever you care to call me, but please out of respect call me PROUD......!!!
written by ANSAR , February 07, 2010
to kafir wala
I read all the comments by different ISLAM HATERS - all got their bisaed views about ISLAM - but Islam is no wInvading all Europe - can you show me the SWORD that invading Europe and America? Ask Ali sina or AK "the great Islamic theoligeans" - whats i ataking their sleep??
Now about Inida - Kafir Wala - have soem knowledge of History - India was ruled by Mugals for 1000 years - still Inida now remains a HINDU NATION - do you need any other proof? The English ruled Inida for 100 years and tehy looted everything and ran away. Mugals lived in INDIA as Indians and died in India as the natives.
About Tippu Sultan you have no knowledge about anything - just got Islam haters commentary to read - tahst i swhy you diminsh teh importance of Tippu Sultan in the indian war of Indipendnace. I am not saying they weer "saints" they were fighting a war -
Now tell me HITLER the Christian killed thousand s of JEWS - Church killed who ever questione d their idiotic beliefs - now what American Christinas are doing in Iraq and AFghanistan?? Plundering the oil of Iraq-
SO what ever you arite as I yold yuo its amusement to read teh blunders - when I asked which army invaded Kerala and established teh first mosque in Kerala - all bible thumbers can say is teh propogand the Christian missioneries spreading for centuries - still the LAMP OF ISLAM IS GLOWING - AND IT WILL GLOW = CLEARING THE DARKNESS IN TEH MINDS OF all those ILAM haters...
Try your best - create more islam hating site sliek this - but Islam will march forward......
I read all the comments by different ISLAM HATERS - all got their bisaed views about ISLAM - but Islam is no wInvading all Europe - can you show me the SWORD that invading Europe and America? Ask Ali sina or AK "the great Islamic theoligeans" - whats i ataking their sleep??
Now about Inida - Kafir Wala - have soem knowledge of History - India was ruled by Mugals for 1000 years - still Inida now remains a HINDU NATION - do you need any other proof? The English ruled Inida for 100 years and tehy looted everything and ran away. Mugals lived in INDIA as Indians and died in India as the natives.
About Tippu Sultan you have no knowledge about anything - just got Islam haters commentary to read - tahst i swhy you diminsh teh importance of Tippu Sultan in the indian war of Indipendnace. I am not saying they weer "saints" they were fighting a war -
Now tell me HITLER the Christian killed thousand s of JEWS - Church killed who ever questione d their idiotic beliefs - now what American Christinas are doing in Iraq and AFghanistan?? Plundering the oil of Iraq-
SO what ever you arite as I yold yuo its amusement to read teh blunders - when I asked which army invaded Kerala and established teh first mosque in Kerala - all bible thumbers can say is teh propogand the Christian missioneries spreading for centuries - still the LAMP OF ISLAM IS GLOWING - AND IT WILL GLOW = CLEARING THE DARKNESS IN TEH MINDS OF all those ILAM haters...
Try your best - create more islam hating site sliek this - but Islam will march forward......
written by ANSAR , February 07, 2010
to tali
Lay man's under standing of Islam is this: Mohammad took the moon god of pagans. Then he added semitic(Abrahamic) theology and stories - the above is teh propoganda of all ISLAM HAters - one who knows ISLAM can only feel sorry for you - for your "great Knowledge" about ISLAM.
Tali - tali baja (this is HINIDI) with all those Islam haters - and have a good noght's sleep.
Nothing going to happen to Islam becuase of peopel like you - I just pass time reading your nonsense tahts all - nothing serious in this site - only bible thumpers hatred spreading platform. still I enjoy reading the "idiotic concepts" of these great SCHOLARS - have a nice time and write more ISLAM hating comments... good luck
Lay man's under standing of Islam is this: Mohammad took the moon god of pagans. Then he added semitic(Abrahamic) theology and stories - the above is teh propoganda of all ISLAM HAters - one who knows ISLAM can only feel sorry for you - for your "great Knowledge" about ISLAM.
Tali - tali baja (this is HINIDI) with all those Islam haters - and have a good noght's sleep.
Nothing going to happen to Islam becuase of peopel like you - I just pass time reading your nonsense tahts all - nothing serious in this site - only bible thumpers hatred spreading platform. still I enjoy reading the "idiotic concepts" of these great SCHOLARS - have a nice time and write more ISLAM hating comments... good luck
written by Healer_999 , February 07, 2010
So Ansar, you know Islam, please tell us what it is. You can feel sorry for me but please tell me what is Islam and the great knowledge of Islam.
written by duh_swami , February 07, 2010
Islam does not always use the sword to invade...There are many ways to jihad, not all of them are violent. Demographic jihad, and stealth jihad, is invading by immigration and rapid breeding...Everywhere Islam has invaded, by the sword or by immigration, there is trouble...There is trouble in Europe and there is trouble in America brought by Muslims...Muslims bring trouble with them...The goal is to spread Islam and remove any obstacles in the way...like Jews, Christians, and other kufr...
Quran 8:39 proves the point...You cannot conquer the world for Allah without invading kufr lands...The only reason Muslims are making these invasions is because stupid kufr make it possible...But kufr are wising up...Soon immigration will stop, in America, Islam will eventually lose its status as a religion, and be reclassified as a hostile political entity...There will be few jobs for Muslims, and no welfare (sob)...Your invading days are just about over...You are going down in defeat...Pack your bags...
Quran 8:39 proves the point...You cannot conquer the world for Allah without invading kufr lands...The only reason Muslims are making these invasions is because stupid kufr make it possible...But kufr are wising up...Soon immigration will stop, in America, Islam will eventually lose its status as a religion, and be reclassified as a hostile political entity...There will be few jobs for Muslims, and no welfare (sob)...Your invading days are just about over...You are going down in defeat...Pack your bags...
written by ANSAR , February 07, 2010
to kafir wala.....
Living in the world of "halllucination" - hahahaha
Living in the world of "halllucination" - hahahaha
written by ANSAR , February 07, 2010
To healer-999- ISLAM IS A WAY OF LIFE and I understand "Islamic worship" as doing anything that is natural – and our actions and intentions that brings benefit to humanity– every living creature and environment (or at least not bring any harm) and the firm belief in the oneness of the power that controls this nature. In this regard, do worship as if "He can see you" – because it always brings a kind of awareness in us about our self.
Be the slave of the creator _ By being the slave of the creator - one frees himself from everything that is "created" You call by any name that power - Allah - Ishwar - baghvan - yehowa - Huda no problem.......
Now dont bring your biased knowledge about Islam and start to shoot your idiotic questions - by writing this I am doing a prayer and a JIHAD. Now can you undertsnd what is prayer and Jihad???
Be the slave of the creator _ By being the slave of the creator - one frees himself from everything that is "created" You call by any name that power - Allah - Ishwar - baghvan - yehowa - Huda no problem.......
Now dont bring your biased knowledge about Islam and start to shoot your idiotic questions - by writing this I am doing a prayer and a JIHAD. Now can you undertsnd what is prayer and Jihad???
written by duh_swami , February 07, 2010
Yes...I think I understand prayer and jihad just fine...
Qur'an:2:216 "Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims), though you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and like a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not." [Another translation reads:] "Warfare is ordained for you."Noble
This is a pretty good description...
Qur'an:2:190 Footnote: "Jihad is holy fighting in Allah's Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah's Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam is propagated. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies as a hypocrite."
Notice the last two lines...Obligatory...refuse, die a hypocrite...There are no hypocrites in Allah's paradise...Got it??
The prayer part is praying you get away with it, or die and get some virgins...
Qur'an:2:216 "Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims), though you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and like a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not." [Another translation reads:] "Warfare is ordained for you."Noble
This is a pretty good description...
Qur'an:2:190 Footnote: "Jihad is holy fighting in Allah's Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah's Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam is propagated. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies as a hypocrite."
Notice the last two lines...Obligatory...refuse, die a hypocrite...There are no hypocrites in Allah's paradise...Got it??
The prayer part is praying you get away with it, or die and get some virgins...
written by Kafirwala , February 07, 2010
Mr.Ansar, time and again you are proving that you are a braindead muslim bigot. For that you can tell any no. of lies, but you cannot distort history. Islam with sword could advance only upto Spain in Europe, but they were pushed back to Turkey by the crusaders in the medeival ages and that is how the invasion was halted. With the invention of dynamite the European countries and America have developed like anything in arms and warfare and muslims have realised that they can no longer overpower them. That is why the muslims are not using force to spread Islam now. So they are using other tactics including sabotage or terrorism.
Your history of India also is a pack of lies. The moghals ruled India not 1000 years, but hardly 250 years only. Around A.D 1500 only the first mughal ruler Baber entered India.(Kabul was captured by Baber in 1504 only). The mughal rule lasted till Arengazeb's death in 1707 only. Now you calculate how many years they were in power. Of course Delhi and some other areas in North India were under muslim rule from 1200 onwards. Including this period, the muslim rule in India didnot last more than 500 or 550 years. During this period itself a majority of area inluding the entire South India was not under muslim rule. Yet more than one third of the people were muslims by the time India got independence. How can you say that India remains a hindu nation? What about the two nations Islam carved out of India during this period, Pakistan and Bangladesh? What about the reign of terror unleashed by the muslim barbarians in the muslim majority Kashmir to create the third Islamic country in the Indian sub continent? I am not entering into the subject of demographic composition of these countries due to time and space constraints. Whereas the Britishers ruled India for around 250 years, but when they left India the christian population in India was only a mere 2.5% . You claimed that unlike the British the muslim rulers settled down in India and lived like Indians. A tall claim I would say. If that were true, muslims wouldnot have insisted upon a separate country for themselves at the time India got Independence. In fact, as I see it the muslims had only polluted Indian culture by mixing their 7th century barbaric practices. The Britishers were far more generous and kind in their approach. They never polluted Indian civilisation. On the contrary, they reformed and modernised it by spreading modern education and introduction of English which served as the foundation for Indian nationalism and develpment.
I know as a muslim you willnot admit any of the above facts. You are a muslim bigot and you will see things with a narrow frame of mind. Parrot like you will chant the glories of Islam. But remember, there will be no takers other than your braindead zombie co-religionists. The jihadis glorify Islam through killing infidels and you people glorify it through uttering blatant lies!
Your history of India also is a pack of lies. The moghals ruled India not 1000 years, but hardly 250 years only. Around A.D 1500 only the first mughal ruler Baber entered India.(Kabul was captured by Baber in 1504 only). The mughal rule lasted till Arengazeb's death in 1707 only. Now you calculate how many years they were in power. Of course Delhi and some other areas in North India were under muslim rule from 1200 onwards. Including this period, the muslim rule in India didnot last more than 500 or 550 years. During this period itself a majority of area inluding the entire South India was not under muslim rule. Yet more than one third of the people were muslims by the time India got independence. How can you say that India remains a hindu nation? What about the two nations Islam carved out of India during this period, Pakistan and Bangladesh? What about the reign of terror unleashed by the muslim barbarians in the muslim majority Kashmir to create the third Islamic country in the Indian sub continent? I am not entering into the subject of demographic composition of these countries due to time and space constraints. Whereas the Britishers ruled India for around 250 years, but when they left India the christian population in India was only a mere 2.5% . You claimed that unlike the British the muslim rulers settled down in India and lived like Indians. A tall claim I would say. If that were true, muslims wouldnot have insisted upon a separate country for themselves at the time India got Independence. In fact, as I see it the muslims had only polluted Indian culture by mixing their 7th century barbaric practices. The Britishers were far more generous and kind in their approach. They never polluted Indian civilisation. On the contrary, they reformed and modernised it by spreading modern education and introduction of English which served as the foundation for Indian nationalism and develpment.
I know as a muslim you willnot admit any of the above facts. You are a muslim bigot and you will see things with a narrow frame of mind. Parrot like you will chant the glories of Islam. But remember, there will be no takers other than your braindead zombie co-religionists. The jihadis glorify Islam through killing infidels and you people glorify it through uttering blatant lies!
written by Kohi , February 07, 2010
Oh Ansar You still can't spell and you can lie cuz your cult say it ok to do. I FEEL SORRY for YOU. Nothing more.....
written by danny , February 07, 2010
Arrogant chauvinists always think like that. The fiction will be exposed.
written by Demsci , February 07, 2010
Time and again we hear via people like Ansar what great shameless lies are being told in mosques and Islamic websites about history, how it is twisted and how Muslims from early age on are being indoctrinated in favor of Islam and in hate to the Kuffars, especially the Israeli's and Americans.
These lies should be common knowledge and be told as much as possible to those supposedly independent, but ignorant defenders of Islam
These lies should be common knowledge and be told as much as possible to those supposedly independent, but ignorant defenders of Islam
written by Machmoed , February 08, 2010
@ Anzar,
Please cut the bullshit about islam being the truth. You know it is not. A god who sweares to his creation and a god who perfects his word in time (concept of abrogation) because he couldn't do this at once. Don't tel;l lies about God, just because the arabs did! Maybe the real God will forgive you for telling lies about him. First the Qor'aan sais to us: try to find one fallacy....well there have been found a lot...so what do you do with this knowledge....sssst, don't tell anybody...it could create a fitna. There have been 3 fitna's in the beginning of islam...maybe it's time again!
Please cut the bullshit about islam being the truth. You know it is not. A god who sweares to his creation and a god who perfects his word in time (concept of abrogation) because he couldn't do this at once. Don't tel;l lies about God, just because the arabs did! Maybe the real God will forgive you for telling lies about him. First the Qor'aan sais to us: try to find one fallacy....well there have been found a lot...so what do you do with this knowledge....sssst, don't tell anybody...it could create a fitna. There have been 3 fitna's in the beginning of islam...maybe it's time again!
written by ANSAR , February 08, 2010
To KafirWala What you expect from me – to sing chorus with you praising the hatred???
After ruling for 550 years (as per you) still India remains a HINDU NATION – means in INDIA majority is Hindus – as per the statics 12% Muslims – 2.5 % Christians ( if their number not increases means majority may be impotents) and others may be another 3% - remaining is HINDUS. Now you ask me why Pakistan was created – you don’t know the history? IS it because of there are Muslims in India that Pakistan was created?? You do not know anything about the politics of Congress – Jawahar Lal Nehru – Jinnah etc… You do not know anything about the thirst for power among these leaders. If Muslims compulsorily converted – than after reaming for 550 years – majority still remain what they were?? What that shows?? I know you will bring other idiotic reasons… Now role of Britsh – in the first place the reason for this split is their cunningness – you do not know anything about BRITISH (CHRISTIAN) games to split the Hindu – Muslim unity – where ever these pigs entered they have created dissection among the people. Their main ideal itself – Divide and Rule. So before teaching me the Indian History – take out your biased spectacle and hatred. One more thing – I am not interested which religion you follow or for that matter anyone who become Champions of faith and say obnoxious remarks about Muhammed. One more thing – one hates in other the most things the “other” loves. I dint like to engage in this – because this site and the writers here are only biased minds – that’s is why when I explained what is prayer according to me – I read all those comments – I can only say when fools begin to talk its time for wise to say good bye… I already informed earlier – only amusement here … and a platform for hatred spreading souls and Bible thumpers to unite….
Now what is happening in Australia against INDIANS?? Is Muslims doing that?? Wake up you snoring idiots!!!
Scholars like Abbu Kasam and Ali Seena (God knows what these Jews real names) will dig out more “lies” to feed you all. Good bye to all – LIVE with your hatred – it’s not going to make any difference to any MUSLIMS – only you will loose your sleep.
After ruling for 550 years (as per you) still India remains a HINDU NATION – means in INDIA majority is Hindus – as per the statics 12% Muslims – 2.5 % Christians ( if their number not increases means majority may be impotents) and others may be another 3% - remaining is HINDUS. Now you ask me why Pakistan was created – you don’t know the history? IS it because of there are Muslims in India that Pakistan was created?? You do not know anything about the politics of Congress – Jawahar Lal Nehru – Jinnah etc… You do not know anything about the thirst for power among these leaders. If Muslims compulsorily converted – than after reaming for 550 years – majority still remain what they were?? What that shows?? I know you will bring other idiotic reasons… Now role of Britsh – in the first place the reason for this split is their cunningness – you do not know anything about BRITISH (CHRISTIAN) games to split the Hindu – Muslim unity – where ever these pigs entered they have created dissection among the people. Their main ideal itself – Divide and Rule. So before teaching me the Indian History – take out your biased spectacle and hatred. One more thing – I am not interested which religion you follow or for that matter anyone who become Champions of faith and say obnoxious remarks about Muhammed. One more thing – one hates in other the most things the “other” loves. I dint like to engage in this – because this site and the writers here are only biased minds – that’s is why when I explained what is prayer according to me – I read all those comments – I can only say when fools begin to talk its time for wise to say good bye… I already informed earlier – only amusement here … and a platform for hatred spreading souls and Bible thumpers to unite….
Now what is happening in Australia against INDIANS?? Is Muslims doing that?? Wake up you snoring idiots!!!
Scholars like Abbu Kasam and Ali Seena (God knows what these Jews real names) will dig out more “lies” to feed you all. Good bye to all – LIVE with your hatred – it’s not going to make any difference to any MUSLIMS – only you will loose your sleep.
written by ANSAR , February 08, 2010
To KOHI - Hey English professor Yes I can’t spell – Are you in English class? You feel sorry for me?? Hahaha save that for your people
written by ANSAR , February 08, 2010
To DEMSCI - Ok live with your truth…yes Muslims are in favor of ISLAM that’s true – but your second part is your ignorance… my best friends are Hindus and Christians, I don’t have to prove you that, only for your information and to show how “ignorant” are you. What is there for a MUSLIM to love Israeli??? You wont love a MUSLIM – do you??? Hate Muslims as Swiss Politician Daniel Streich hated, than only you can become a MULSIM. You know Swiss politician Daniel Streich, who rose to fame for his campaign against minarets of mosques, he is a MUSLIM now. So go on hating……
written by Machmoed , February 08, 2010
2 Ansar,
Why involve politics? The main issue is that islamic sources themself tell that for instance Qor'aan is not what it used to be. There are a lot of verses wich are not there anymore. What about Allah promised to save the qor'aan as it was revealed by Gibriel to Mihammad and did Gibriel revealed it in one way or 7 or more ways (qiraat ul masahif). No you are not discussing the important things, you telling us that Daniel Streich has become a muslim....That's so childish. Who cares about mosques, minarets and Streich. It's about the truth as it might happened in the time of the prophet. It is a fact my friend that the orthodoxvision is a lie or not the whole truth. This fact cannot be taken away by suggesting that Streich had become a muslim. It's the islam as it is told and written that i think and believe you're a lyer, but it's maybe so because you don't know the sources of islam.
Why involve politics? The main issue is that islamic sources themself tell that for instance Qor'aan is not what it used to be. There are a lot of verses wich are not there anymore. What about Allah promised to save the qor'aan as it was revealed by Gibriel to Mihammad and did Gibriel revealed it in one way or 7 or more ways (qiraat ul masahif). No you are not discussing the important things, you telling us that Daniel Streich has become a muslim....That's so childish. Who cares about mosques, minarets and Streich. It's about the truth as it might happened in the time of the prophet. It is a fact my friend that the orthodoxvision is a lie or not the whole truth. This fact cannot be taken away by suggesting that Streich had become a muslim. It's the islam as it is told and written that i think and believe you're a lyer, but it's maybe so because you don't know the sources of islam.
written by Machmoed , February 08, 2010
2 Ansar,
Why always go into politics.
This is what it's about: the sources of islam tell us that the qor'aan is not what it used to be as it was revealed by Gibriel to Mohammad. Actually the sources tell us that gibriel revealed the qor'aan in 7 or more ways (qiraat ul masahif). The hadieth tell us that some surat/verses were lost due to domestic animals...so what about the promise of Allah that he is going to protect the Qor'aan and why it was not protected. The Qor'aan has not been changed for about 1200 years, not 1400 years like muslims claim. You see islam as it is written is not what muslims know and believe...islam has become distortioned through centuries. If we rediculate islam it's because it's rediculous.
Why always go into politics.
This is what it's about: the sources of islam tell us that the qor'aan is not what it used to be as it was revealed by Gibriel to Mohammad. Actually the sources tell us that gibriel revealed the qor'aan in 7 or more ways (qiraat ul masahif). The hadieth tell us that some surat/verses were lost due to domestic animals...so what about the promise of Allah that he is going to protect the Qor'aan and why it was not protected. The Qor'aan has not been changed for about 1200 years, not 1400 years like muslims claim. You see islam as it is written is not what muslims know and believe...islam has become distortioned through centuries. If we rediculate islam it's because it's rediculous.
written by Healer_999 , February 08, 2010
Hello Ansar,
You wrote "ISLAM IS A WAY OF LIFE and I understand "Islamic worship" as doing anything that is natural – and our actions and intentions that brings benefit to humanity– every living creature and environment (or at least not bring any harm) and the firm belief in the oneness of the power that controls this nature."
We really have no problem with Islam if it is like what you wrote. But looking at Koran gives another picture. Take a look at the following two verses:
016.075
YUSUFALI: Allah sets forth the Parable (of two men: one) a slave under the dominion of another; He has no power of any sort; and (the other) a man on whom We have bestowed goodly favours from Ourselves, and he spends thereof (freely), privately and publicly: are the two equal? (By no means
praise be to Allah. But most of them understand not.
016.076
YUSUFALI: Allah sets forth (another) Parable of two men: one of them dumb, with no power of any sort; a wearisome burden is he to his master; whichever way be directs him, he brings no good: is such a man equal with one who commands Justice, and is on a Straight Way?
It seems there is no equality of all men in Islam. It permits Muslims to take slaves and clearly says they are not equal to others. It even discriminates against handicapped. Why should it do when it is Allah who brought them out of wombs?Check this verse:
016.078
YUSUFALI: It is He Who brought you forth from the wombs of your mothers when ye knew nothing; and He gave you hearing and sight and intelligence and affections: that ye may give thanks (to Allah).
So first Allah fails to give them some thing then says they(Handicapped) are not equal to others. How many times Allah will punish? He even says Muslims can have sex with slaves. Tell me is Slave not a creature? There are many verses supporting slavery. Does slavery fit in to your version of Islam? You decide.
Like you say no creature should be harmed, why name Non Muslims as Kuffar? Koran is full of curses towards these Kuffar. How do you justify? He even tells Muslims not to take friends from Non Muslims. Check these verses:
058.022
YUSUFALI: Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein (for ever). Allah will be well pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of Allah. Truly it is the Party of Allah that will achieve Felicity.
004.144
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?
005.051
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
004.101
YUSUFALI: When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers May attack you: For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.
In fact Allah tells Muslims to fight them and Allah even tells them how to do it. Check this:
008.012
YUSUFALI: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
There are many more verses supporting nothing but violence. I didn't even bring chapter 9.
You see. I do not know how Such Allah's ideology fits in to yours. Yours is an excellent one. You your self said you are his slave. His and yours are poles apart.
You wrote "ISLAM IS A WAY OF LIFE and I understand "Islamic worship" as doing anything that is natural – and our actions and intentions that brings benefit to humanity– every living creature and environment (or at least not bring any harm) and the firm belief in the oneness of the power that controls this nature."
We really have no problem with Islam if it is like what you wrote. But looking at Koran gives another picture. Take a look at the following two verses:
016.075
YUSUFALI: Allah sets forth the Parable (of two men: one) a slave under the dominion of another; He has no power of any sort; and (the other) a man on whom We have bestowed goodly favours from Ourselves, and he spends thereof (freely), privately and publicly: are the two equal? (By no means
praise be to Allah. But most of them understand not. 016.076
YUSUFALI: Allah sets forth (another) Parable of two men: one of them dumb, with no power of any sort; a wearisome burden is he to his master; whichever way be directs him, he brings no good: is such a man equal with one who commands Justice, and is on a Straight Way?
It seems there is no equality of all men in Islam. It permits Muslims to take slaves and clearly says they are not equal to others. It even discriminates against handicapped. Why should it do when it is Allah who brought them out of wombs?Check this verse:
016.078
YUSUFALI: It is He Who brought you forth from the wombs of your mothers when ye knew nothing; and He gave you hearing and sight and intelligence and affections: that ye may give thanks (to Allah).
So first Allah fails to give them some thing then says they(Handicapped) are not equal to others. How many times Allah will punish? He even says Muslims can have sex with slaves. Tell me is Slave not a creature? There are many verses supporting slavery. Does slavery fit in to your version of Islam? You decide.
Like you say no creature should be harmed, why name Non Muslims as Kuffar? Koran is full of curses towards these Kuffar. How do you justify? He even tells Muslims not to take friends from Non Muslims. Check these verses:
058.022
YUSUFALI: Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein (for ever). Allah will be well pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of Allah. Truly it is the Party of Allah that will achieve Felicity.
004.144
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?
005.051
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
004.101
YUSUFALI: When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers May attack you: For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.
In fact Allah tells Muslims to fight them and Allah even tells them how to do it. Check this:
008.012
YUSUFALI: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
There are many more verses supporting nothing but violence. I didn't even bring chapter 9.
You see. I do not know how Such Allah's ideology fits in to yours. Yours is an excellent one. You your self said you are his slave. His and yours are poles apart.
written by Kafirwala , February 09, 2010
Telling lies in order to glorify Islam is the hallmark of any muslim. As taqiya, Allah promotes it and is highly rewardable. Ahmedinejad is in the process of rewriting history to show that holocaust has never taken place! In his own way Ansar is twisting facts to rewrite Indian history. I can say only this much. Ansar, you are an incorrigible idiotic muslim. You never listen to reason. Because your brain cells are dead. May your tribe increase!
written by Kohi , February 09, 2010
Yes I can’t spell – Are you in English class? You feel sorry for me??
It is called education some thing your prophet (crap be on his head) does not want you to have to much of is that not right?
It is called education some thing your prophet (crap be on his head) does not want you to have to much of is that not right?
written by Archpagan , February 09, 2010
Muslims have chosen to live in a make-believe, schizophrenic world, where Islam is coeval with time, destroying and islamizing in the process the entire past. Thus for them Abraham has to become Ibrahim, Issac Ismail, Moses Hazrat Musa and Jesus Hazrat Isha. They have wilfully crippled their mind so much that time for them have frozen in the 7th century. So, whereas the Christians could pull themselves out of the morass of the medieval era by drawing sustenance from the spirit of enquiry and free thought of their Graco-Roman ancestors, Muslims have been condemned to medievalism for ever.
Muslims are wilful, incorrigible idiots, indulging in intellectual promiscuity. For our own safety we should isolate them intellectually, and advise them not to study science and technology created by infidels so as to retain their 'Iman'. That would consign them to the jungles leaving us in safety.
Muslims are wilful, incorrigible idiots, indulging in intellectual promiscuity. For our own safety we should isolate them intellectually, and advise them not to study science and technology created by infidels so as to retain their 'Iman'. That would consign them to the jungles leaving us in safety.
written by ANSAR , February 09, 2010
To healer
Thank you for detailed comments. you are right - when you read the Quran and take verses out of context - sure anyone have this confusion. In Baghva Geeta, Krishn advices his companion Arjun to KILL his own brothers, he says its a war. I never saw any keepers of morality questions that. One thing healer - I firmly beilve there is a creator, what ever name you gave it ( other than a name that creates a human image) I will agree with that. About Slavery - I too agree with you - Islam outrightly not saying to abolish that. When I said Iam the slave of the creeator - I free myslef from the slavery of all creations. I am interseted in a serious discussion - not to show I am right - but to understnd - but in this site where Kafiwala with is gerat knowledge ( my foot) and idots like KOHI ( utter nonsense idiotic - figure) - nothing serious will happen- only hatred spreading and mudslinging. I never say a word against any of the revered figures - even I never agree with that Godman or God figure.
Thank you for detailed comments. you are right - when you read the Quran and take verses out of context - sure anyone have this confusion. In Baghva Geeta, Krishn advices his companion Arjun to KILL his own brothers, he says its a war. I never saw any keepers of morality questions that. One thing healer - I firmly beilve there is a creator, what ever name you gave it ( other than a name that creates a human image) I will agree with that. About Slavery - I too agree with you - Islam outrightly not saying to abolish that. When I said Iam the slave of the creeator - I free myslef from the slavery of all creations. I am interseted in a serious discussion - not to show I am right - but to understnd - but in this site where Kafiwala with is gerat knowledge ( my foot) and idots like KOHI ( utter nonsense idiotic - figure) - nothing serious will happen- only hatred spreading and mudslinging. I never say a word against any of the revered figures - even I never agree with that Godman or God figure.
written by Machmoed , February 09, 2010
You're interested in serious discussion. I'm glad to hear that and the above posting proofs you're not that ignorant. Ofcourse there is a god or source that created all this...no doubt in this. But God does not interfere with his creation but by the laws he made to regulate his creation. The universe is full of spirituality and the construction of the universe is mindblowing, but when comparing this to the so-called God of the scriptures, this God is childish and selfish, like Einstein also claimed. The system (islam) full with it's curves and lies etc just to stay in the line of the story of the arabs is selfish and childish. Muslims claim Qor'aan is the litteraly word of Allah/God. But why would Allah pray to himself (surat alfatiha) and praise himself. How can Qor'aan tell us that the jews say we have killed the prophet of allah (jesus) but jews never would say such thing because jews never believed Jesus was a prophet. and so on and so on!
written by Healer_999 , February 09, 2010
To quote from Bhagavad Gita is not necessary here. But you your self can easily see they form an extended family. He merely advices Arjuna it is duty to fight for his rights, to get back stolen kingdom with out thinking about result of the war, which is not in his hands. There he also says
“People will talk about your disgrace forever. To the honored, dishonor is worse than death.”
It was his obligation to fight for his kingdom who ever be the enemy, in this case it was his relatives. It was a mutually consented war.
I give some quotes from Bhagavad Gita:
“There is neither this world nor the world beyond nor happiness for the one who doubts.”
“Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed.”
“One gradually attains tranquillity of mind by keeping the mind fully absorbed in the Self by means of a well-trained intellect, and thinking of nothing else.”
“The power of God is with you at all times; through the activities of mind, senses, breathing, and emotions; and is constantly doing all the work using you as a mere instrument.”
One of my favorites.
“One who has control over the mind is tranquil in heat and cold, in pleasure and pain, and in honor and dishonor; and is ever steadfast with the Supreme Self.”
“The wise sees knowledge and action as one; they see truly”
“The mind acts like an enemy for those who do not control it.”
“A gift is pure when it is given from the heart to the right person at the right time and at the right place, and when we expect nothing in return”
Above one is my favorite one.
“Man is made by his belief. As he believes, so he is.”
“In battle, in the forest, at the precipice in the mountains, On the dark great sea, in the midst of javelins and arrows, In sleep, in confusion, in the depths of shame, The good deeds a man has done before defend him”
“A person is said to have achieved yoga, the union with the Self, when the perfectly disciplined mind gets freedom from all desires, and becomes absorbed in the Self alone.”
“Hell has three gates: lust, anger, and greed”
Another favorite of mine.
“There is nothing lost or wasted in this life.”
“People will talk about your disgrace forever. To the honored, dishonor is worse than death.”
“Fear not what is not real, never was and never will be. What is real, always was and cannot be destroyed.”
“One can become whatever one wants to be [if one constantly contemplates on the object of desire with faith].”
“Whatever I am offered in devotion with a pure heart - a leaf, a flower, fruit, or water - I accept with joy.”
“A man's own self is his friend. A man's own self is his foe.”
“"Na Hanyate Hanyamane Sarire"
"Consciousness is eternal it is not vanquished with the destruction of the temporary body"”
“Whatever you do, make it an offering to me -- the food you eat, the sacrifices you make, the help you give, even your suffering.”
“The faith of each is in accordance with one's own nature.”
“Death is as sure for that which is born, as birth is for that which is dead. Therefore grieve not for what is inevitable.”
Saying body is mere mortal.
“Setting aside all noble deeds, just surrender completely to the will of God. I shall liberate you from all sins. Do not grieve.”
“Hypocrisy, arrogance, pride, anger, harshness, and ignorance; these are the marks of those who are born with demonic qualities.”
“Setting aside all noble deeds, just surrender completely to the will of God. I shall liberate you from all sins. Do not grieve.”
Above are quotes from Bhagavad Gita. I am not asking you to think over these or calling you to Hinduism. All I want to say , for example BG does not force any one
to stuff these on others, which Koran intends to.
I am not even claiming Hinduism is the best one. All religions have their own fallacies. But Islam is completely different. We will discuss it in other post.
Again, it just happened that enemy happened to be His relative. This is between Good and Bad.
“People will talk about your disgrace forever. To the honored, dishonor is worse than death.”
It was his obligation to fight for his kingdom who ever be the enemy, in this case it was his relatives. It was a mutually consented war.
I give some quotes from Bhagavad Gita:
“There is neither this world nor the world beyond nor happiness for the one who doubts.”
“Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed.”
“One gradually attains tranquillity of mind by keeping the mind fully absorbed in the Self by means of a well-trained intellect, and thinking of nothing else.”
“The power of God is with you at all times; through the activities of mind, senses, breathing, and emotions; and is constantly doing all the work using you as a mere instrument.”
One of my favorites.
“One who has control over the mind is tranquil in heat and cold, in pleasure and pain, and in honor and dishonor; and is ever steadfast with the Supreme Self.”
“The wise sees knowledge and action as one; they see truly”
“The mind acts like an enemy for those who do not control it.”
“A gift is pure when it is given from the heart to the right person at the right time and at the right place, and when we expect nothing in return”
Above one is my favorite one.
“Man is made by his belief. As he believes, so he is.”
“In battle, in the forest, at the precipice in the mountains, On the dark great sea, in the midst of javelins and arrows, In sleep, in confusion, in the depths of shame, The good deeds a man has done before defend him”
“A person is said to have achieved yoga, the union with the Self, when the perfectly disciplined mind gets freedom from all desires, and becomes absorbed in the Self alone.”
“Hell has three gates: lust, anger, and greed”
Another favorite of mine.
“There is nothing lost or wasted in this life.”
“People will talk about your disgrace forever. To the honored, dishonor is worse than death.”
“Fear not what is not real, never was and never will be. What is real, always was and cannot be destroyed.”
“One can become whatever one wants to be [if one constantly contemplates on the object of desire with faith].”
“Whatever I am offered in devotion with a pure heart - a leaf, a flower, fruit, or water - I accept with joy.”
“A man's own self is his friend. A man's own self is his foe.”
“"Na Hanyate Hanyamane Sarire"
"Consciousness is eternal it is not vanquished with the destruction of the temporary body"”
“Whatever you do, make it an offering to me -- the food you eat, the sacrifices you make, the help you give, even your suffering.”
“The faith of each is in accordance with one's own nature.”
“Death is as sure for that which is born, as birth is for that which is dead. Therefore grieve not for what is inevitable.”
Saying body is mere mortal.
“Setting aside all noble deeds, just surrender completely to the will of God. I shall liberate you from all sins. Do not grieve.”
“Hypocrisy, arrogance, pride, anger, harshness, and ignorance; these are the marks of those who are born with demonic qualities.”
“Setting aside all noble deeds, just surrender completely to the will of God. I shall liberate you from all sins. Do not grieve.”
Above are quotes from Bhagavad Gita. I am not asking you to think over these or calling you to Hinduism. All I want to say , for example BG does not force any one
to stuff these on others, which Koran intends to.
I am not even claiming Hinduism is the best one. All religions have their own fallacies. But Islam is completely different. We will discuss it in other post.
Again, it just happened that enemy happened to be His relative. This is between Good and Bad.
written by Healer_999 , February 09, 2010
Hello Ansar,
That is what you must have been told by others. But you should ask yourself what context? Historical Context. Remember Koran is for eternity and every word of it. And every word is from Allah. Since Allah is all knowing and wise, why didn't he say such thing like it (that verse) is not for eternity. All Muslims say this " Koran is word of God and true. Always valid. But then there abrogation in Koran to remove the contradictions in Koran.
You said about slavery. Why Allah didn't condemn it or stop it? Does he wanted it to be continued? You know Saudi Arabia banned slavery only in 1962 and in some African countries it is practiced even today. Read about recent killings in Darfur, Sudan and how Fair skinned Arabs were taking dark skinned Muslims as slaves.
Slavery was practiced during the times of Mohammad, if you want Historical context. So he avidly practiced it and codified it in Koran. So where is the wisdom and virtue of kindness and mercy in Prophet and Allah. Forget about Allah. Why did Prophet practice slavery? He even distributed slaves among his followers.
Look at these two verses:
033.026
YUSUFALI: And those of the People of the Book who aided them - Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye slew, and some ye made prisoners.
033.027
YUSUFALI: And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, and of a land which ye had not frequented (before). And Allah has power over all things.
Here these two refer to beheading of 600 to 900 Jewish men of Quraiza tribe. After they were killed their property along with women and children was distributed among Muslims by Mohammad. Check it from Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah, page 461, and Al Tabari's last years of Mohammad. Read the following:
Tabari VIII:38
"The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims."
Bukhari , Volume 5, Book 59, Number 362: Narrated Ibn Umar: Prophet then killed their men and distributed their women, children and property among the Muslims
Tabari VIII:39 "Then the Messenger of Allah sent Sa'd bin Zayd with some of the Qurayza captives to Najd, and in exchange for them he purchased horses and arms."
The History of Tabari, vol 8, page 29-30 From his share of captive women, prophet gave his son-in-law, Ali a slave girl, Raytah bt Hilal to enjoy her at his will. He also presented Uthman b. Affan, his son-in-law, another slave girl Zainab b. Hayan, and bestowed another girl (name unknown) to his father in-law Omar Ibn Khattab. Omar gave that girl to his son Abdullah. Most of Prophet's other elite companions received slave girls as gifts.. The remaining were sent to Najd to be sold and to purchase arms and horses with the proceeds.
After they(Jews) surrendered, men were separated from women and children. Mohammad went to Market to supervise the digging of trenches and then Jews were disrobed, children were checked if they reached pubic, and beheaded 600 to 900 Jews in one day. Much worse is, Prophet took his 20% prophetic cut and the crowning jewel of his share of booty was the gorgeous teenager Reyhana.
( You can read this from faithfreedom.org, just go to the website type banu quraiza jews in search box. I myself read it from there)
I don't know if one calls this mercy. When he he says he was the prophet of god, he was supposed to set an example. Even if one can support the killing , I don't know how one justify taking women as captives and raping them or selling them. Will any God order such things? Just ask your self. Mohammad practiced slavery in its most original form and Allah, if he existed, gave permission.
Like you said, if there is one creator what do you expect from him? Definitely such barbarism? If you want to find out you can read from faithfreedom. You are by yourself. After you replied, I think you are brave. You don't have to quit Islam or convert to some other religion but you can help in creating better understanding.
That is what you must have been told by others. But you should ask yourself what context? Historical Context. Remember Koran is for eternity and every word of it. And every word is from Allah. Since Allah is all knowing and wise, why didn't he say such thing like it (that verse) is not for eternity. All Muslims say this " Koran is word of God and true. Always valid. But then there abrogation in Koran to remove the contradictions in Koran.
You said about slavery. Why Allah didn't condemn it or stop it? Does he wanted it to be continued? You know Saudi Arabia banned slavery only in 1962 and in some African countries it is practiced even today. Read about recent killings in Darfur, Sudan and how Fair skinned Arabs were taking dark skinned Muslims as slaves.
Slavery was practiced during the times of Mohammad, if you want Historical context. So he avidly practiced it and codified it in Koran. So where is the wisdom and virtue of kindness and mercy in Prophet and Allah. Forget about Allah. Why did Prophet practice slavery? He even distributed slaves among his followers.
Look at these two verses:
033.026
YUSUFALI: And those of the People of the Book who aided them - Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye slew, and some ye made prisoners.
033.027
YUSUFALI: And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, and of a land which ye had not frequented (before). And Allah has power over all things.
Here these two refer to beheading of 600 to 900 Jewish men of Quraiza tribe. After they were killed their property along with women and children was distributed among Muslims by Mohammad. Check it from Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah, page 461, and Al Tabari's last years of Mohammad. Read the following:
Tabari VIII:38
"The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims."
Bukhari , Volume 5, Book 59, Number 362: Narrated Ibn Umar: Prophet then killed their men and distributed their women, children and property among the Muslims
Tabari VIII:39 "Then the Messenger of Allah sent Sa'd bin Zayd with some of the Qurayza captives to Najd, and in exchange for them he purchased horses and arms."
The History of Tabari, vol 8, page 29-30 From his share of captive women, prophet gave his son-in-law, Ali a slave girl, Raytah bt Hilal to enjoy her at his will. He also presented Uthman b. Affan, his son-in-law, another slave girl Zainab b. Hayan, and bestowed another girl (name unknown) to his father in-law Omar Ibn Khattab. Omar gave that girl to his son Abdullah. Most of Prophet's other elite companions received slave girls as gifts.. The remaining were sent to Najd to be sold and to purchase arms and horses with the proceeds.
After they(Jews) surrendered, men were separated from women and children. Mohammad went to Market to supervise the digging of trenches and then Jews were disrobed, children were checked if they reached pubic, and beheaded 600 to 900 Jews in one day. Much worse is, Prophet took his 20% prophetic cut and the crowning jewel of his share of booty was the gorgeous teenager Reyhana.
( You can read this from faithfreedom.org, just go to the website type banu quraiza jews in search box. I myself read it from there)
I don't know if one calls this mercy. When he he says he was the prophet of god, he was supposed to set an example. Even if one can support the killing , I don't know how one justify taking women as captives and raping them or selling them. Will any God order such things? Just ask your self. Mohammad practiced slavery in its most original form and Allah, if he existed, gave permission.
Like you said, if there is one creator what do you expect from him? Definitely such barbarism? If you want to find out you can read from faithfreedom. You are by yourself. After you replied, I think you are brave. You don't have to quit Islam or convert to some other religion but you can help in creating better understanding.
written by Demsci , February 09, 2010
Hello Ansar, you gave me an interesting response.
First off; in my opinion you gave here some wrong and exaggerated facts in favor of Islam and at the cost of the Western people, most of whom are Christians or Atheists (which I am) and it hurt me. And many Muslims visiting here and many I spoke to did that too. And I really think some Islamic scholars and leaders are viciously twisting the facts and history. And maybe you are a victim of that and you genuinely believe what they indoctrinated you with from childhood. But we must all try to get our information from the best unbiased sources, in a lifelong effort. And I learn a lot from Islam Watch. Machmoed talks a lot of interesting facts and logic reasoning, for instance.
Yeah, it is well said that if I am only hating Islam than I may end up converting into it. But people ALL hate AND love humans, teachings, all sorts of things and to many others many of these are just indifferent. To me it is more important what I love than what I hate, thanks for reminding me not to hate only. And I love democracy and searching for the truth.
And I think in part Islam and many Muslims are a threat to Democracy in Democratic countries and also that they are an obstacle for Democracy in Islamic countries. And I think Science, including History and Archeology, tells us ever more and deeper truths and that Islam is not wholly true, and it does say it IS wholly true and perfect. So Islam also blocks many people searching and finding more of the truth, it seems.
But if Muslims were Democratically minded I would be largely indifferent towards Islam. On my side; I have many nice Muslim-acquaintances and some of them are my dearest friends.
Hey, you Muslims HATE Jews. Are you not afraid of converting to Judaism through being busy with it too much?
First off; in my opinion you gave here some wrong and exaggerated facts in favor of Islam and at the cost of the Western people, most of whom are Christians or Atheists (which I am) and it hurt me. And many Muslims visiting here and many I spoke to did that too. And I really think some Islamic scholars and leaders are viciously twisting the facts and history. And maybe you are a victim of that and you genuinely believe what they indoctrinated you with from childhood. But we must all try to get our information from the best unbiased sources, in a lifelong effort. And I learn a lot from Islam Watch. Machmoed talks a lot of interesting facts and logic reasoning, for instance.
Yeah, it is well said that if I am only hating Islam than I may end up converting into it. But people ALL hate AND love humans, teachings, all sorts of things and to many others many of these are just indifferent. To me it is more important what I love than what I hate, thanks for reminding me not to hate only. And I love democracy and searching for the truth.
And I think in part Islam and many Muslims are a threat to Democracy in Democratic countries and also that they are an obstacle for Democracy in Islamic countries. And I think Science, including History and Archeology, tells us ever more and deeper truths and that Islam is not wholly true, and it does say it IS wholly true and perfect. So Islam also blocks many people searching and finding more of the truth, it seems.
But if Muslims were Democratically minded I would be largely indifferent towards Islam. On my side; I have many nice Muslim-acquaintances and some of them are my dearest friends.
Hey, you Muslims HATE Jews. Are you not afraid of converting to Judaism through being busy with it too much?
written by Kohi , February 09, 2010
but in this site where Kafiwala with is gerat knowledge ( my foot) and idots like KOHI ( utter nonsense idiotic - figure) - nothing serious will happen- only hatred spreading and mudslinging. I never say a word against any of the revered figures - even I never agree with that Godman or God figure.
The nonsense you spew is mudslinging enough use your BRAIN BOY you prophet is a BABY RAPING,KILLER
where in your qweeran is there anything about LOVE for ALL people and to NOT KILL You muzzies kill anyone who does not agreed with you. LOOK around you know this is true!
The nonsense you spew is mudslinging enough use your BRAIN BOY you prophet is a BABY RAPING,KILLER
where in your qweeran is there anything about LOVE for ALL people and to NOT KILL You muzzies kill anyone who does not agreed with you. LOOK around you know this is true!
written by ANSAR , February 10, 2010
to healer-999
BG is full of wisdom, and I cherish best that cannot be find in anyother book "Karmena Vadi Karasthe- Mafaleshu Kadhajana" I am not sure I spelled all correct!! we all live with our |truth" in reality there is nothing like truth, becuase all are relative. We see all through our own created filters - and call the other wrong.
I am living with my understanding of the religion - I am sure many among Muslims wont follow my thoughts about my own religion. you can disagree with islam - you can criticse Islam - but calling a man whom a biilion around the wordl adore by the names that appear in this site - are you agreeing with that?? You can hate him - no problem its your own choice, you can hate Muslim - Islam and everything related with that - its your preferance, but the languages used in this site........ Healer I recommend you to read more of J.Krishnamurthy...... have a nice time - bye to all
BG is full of wisdom, and I cherish best that cannot be find in anyother book "Karmena Vadi Karasthe- Mafaleshu Kadhajana" I am not sure I spelled all correct!! we all live with our |truth" in reality there is nothing like truth, becuase all are relative. We see all through our own created filters - and call the other wrong.
I am living with my understanding of the religion - I am sure many among Muslims wont follow my thoughts about my own religion. you can disagree with islam - you can criticse Islam - but calling a man whom a biilion around the wordl adore by the names that appear in this site - are you agreeing with that?? You can hate him - no problem its your own choice, you can hate Muslim - Islam and everything related with that - its your preferance, but the languages used in this site........ Healer I recommend you to read more of J.Krishnamurthy...... have a nice time - bye to all
written by Machmoed , February 10, 2010
you can agree with islam - you can propagate Islam - but calling a man a prophet while the sources of islam tell us what he has done to slaves, to jews and to everybody who didn't agree with him as stipulated in this site? - Do you agree that this not godly at all! You can love him - no problem its your own choice, you can love islam (it's just a word) but the complications this (s)word has done to the world and to science.....you know the rest.
You wrote: I am living with my understanding of the religion - I am sure many among Muslims wont follow my thoughts about my own religion.
First of all: you really don't understand your religion as it is written and believed and practiced in the beginning of islam. You have created your own religion..so it seems and there is no harm in that, but don't tell us that you understood it. This means that you're unique and all other muslims are following some crap doctrine wich ofcourse is true. and secondly: What do you mean by your thoughts about your own religion? Do you have an own religion that's different from islam preached in Qor'aan and other islamic sources? I think you do, but that's not interesting to us...we are only interested in Islam, not other believesystems like yours.
You wrote: I am living with my understanding of the religion - I am sure many among Muslims wont follow my thoughts about my own religion.
First of all: you really don't understand your religion as it is written and believed and practiced in the beginning of islam. You have created your own religion..so it seems and there is no harm in that, but don't tell us that you understood it. This means that you're unique and all other muslims are following some crap doctrine wich ofcourse is true. and secondly: What do you mean by your thoughts about your own religion? Do you have an own religion that's different from islam preached in Qor'aan and other islamic sources? I think you do, but that's not interesting to us...we are only interested in Islam, not other believesystems like yours.
written by Healer_999 , February 10, 2010
Hello Ansar,
It is unfair for many of here to call a man revered by more than a billion people. Trust me, it is. Then I asked my self what do the numbers say? If you take the population of the world to be 6.5 billion people, if we subtract population of Muslims, 1.5 billion, there are still 5 billion people.
Humanity of 5 billions. Can you get it? It is huge. Now what does the holy Koran say about these people? Or Allah? He brands them as liers, unclean and worst of the creatures, the vilest of animals. He says they either should be subdued making them pay zizya or put to death? To escape these is to convert to Islam. Thats what Allah tells in Koran. He condemn's all others to death or to Islam. Have you ever heard about verse of the sword. It is 9:5. You your self read it. If you have doubt you can go to your Imam or come here. This verse literally commands or calls for eternal warfare against infidels.
Why does holy Koran has to divide Humanity in to two? Holy Koran is referring to non believers Kuffar not for once, but many times.
Is there any other religion with such explicit cruelty towards others? Is there any other religion which divided humanity in to world two parts? Like the land of Islam and the land of war(under the control of infidels). Is there any other religion which makes warfare (Jihad) obligation to its followers?
Do you think it is fair for Allah to say such things about 5 billion people?
I feel no. Thats why I wrote its all unfair.
Dear Ansar, what do you feel?
It is unfair for many of here to call a man revered by more than a billion people. Trust me, it is. Then I asked my self what do the numbers say? If you take the population of the world to be 6.5 billion people, if we subtract population of Muslims, 1.5 billion, there are still 5 billion people.
Humanity of 5 billions. Can you get it? It is huge. Now what does the holy Koran say about these people? Or Allah? He brands them as liers, unclean and worst of the creatures, the vilest of animals. He says they either should be subdued making them pay zizya or put to death? To escape these is to convert to Islam. Thats what Allah tells in Koran. He condemn's all others to death or to Islam. Have you ever heard about verse of the sword. It is 9:5. You your self read it. If you have doubt you can go to your Imam or come here. This verse literally commands or calls for eternal warfare against infidels.
Why does holy Koran has to divide Humanity in to two? Holy Koran is referring to non believers Kuffar not for once, but many times.
Is there any other religion with such explicit cruelty towards others? Is there any other religion which divided humanity in to world two parts? Like the land of Islam and the land of war(under the control of infidels). Is there any other religion which makes warfare (Jihad) obligation to its followers?
Do you think it is fair for Allah to say such things about 5 billion people?
I feel no. Thats why I wrote its all unfair.
Dear Ansar, what do you feel?
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Malay Muslims say that their ALLAH is different to Allah the Christians refer to. The UMNO Caliphs want to patent Allah so they can collect rent like to do for Halal Products