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The True Nature of Islam: Nonie Darwish versus Hassan Shibley

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Islamic apologist Hassan Shibly demands "Islam Has Nothing To Do With Terrorism" to which ex-Muslim Nonie Darwish writes a retort on the true nature of Islam...


Islam Has Nothing To Do With Terrorism

By Hassan Shibly

Nonie Darwish’s article (“Islamic Indoctrination vs. Education,” Frontpagemag.com, Feb. 18) made some grave accusations against me and my father. I was very surprised and disturbed to read the article, it was as though I was reading about someone I never knew.

What disappointed me the most is that although Ms. Darwish cites an anonymous letter which falsely claims I said certain statements, she did not conduct the first basic element of investigative journalism. Although she has my contact info, she did not call or email me asking if I ever made those statements. Nor does it appear she interviewed any of the dozens of students and staff who attended my presentations. Had I made any of the alleged statements, the students and staff of the over 40 classes I have spoken at certainly would have been alarmed and would have never invited me to speak. Furthermore, the letter Ms. Darwish quotes is the first and only complaint I have ever heard. Not one of the teachers or other students who attended the presentation were concerned with anything I said. Rather, they loved the presentation.

I simply wish that the author and publisher had contacted me before publishing the article and asked about my presentation or what I said during it or at least asked the many students and teachers who attended it, so that they could present a more fair and accurate report for the readership.

I stopped working with Bridges TV shortly after the interview we did because I did not feel Muzzamil Hassan truly reflected the teachings and beauty of Islam. And truly the terrible crime he allegedly committed is inexcusable and just a reflection that its perpetrator could not be a true practicing Muslim representative of my dear faith. I left Bridges long before the terrible crime occurred there. After leaving Bridges, none of the shows I hosted were aired. I did send several requests for them to send Ms. Darwish a copy and my understanding was that they did. The very fact that I invited Ms. Darwish on the show was simply an expression of my good will to engage in a healthy dialog and conversation.

Darwish claims that my father and I both spoke at the high school. My father (Othman) never spoke at the high school nor has he participated in any of the school presentations I have conducted.

I will end this letter by simply addressing the statements attributed to me and explain how they are distortions or outright fabrications:

During the presentation I did explain that there is no room for terrorism or the killing of civilians in Islam. I also explained that those who commit terrorism are not true Muslims. The Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him said, “A Believer is one from whom peoples blood and wealth are safe.” The Quran says “Whoever kills a person it is as though he has killed all humanity.” I went on to explain that according to the Scholar Joseph Schwartz, those who commit acts of terrorism do not do so because of Islam nor do they justify their actions with religion. (Published by Oxford, April 2004, Journal of Metphilosophy).Rather, they justify their abhorrent actions with political and not religious reasons.

I did not claim that the men who carried out the attacks were atheists. However, as I said, Islam does not permit the killing of civilians so a person who kills innocents is not a true believer. Furthermore, I cited a study done by University of Chicago Professor Robert Pape. He conducted a study sponsored by the State Department under the Bush administration which concluded that statistically, the largest users of suicide terrorism are radical atheist communist groups in Sri Lanka.

I did state that a person who reacts violently to an insult does so because they are not controlling their emotions and are not using their God given intellect. I said that if someone gets upset because you insult their faith it is because they are reacting emotionally, in the same way a person whose mother is insulted may react irrationally and inappropriately. I used that as an example of why people need to use their intellect and control their emotions, not the other way around. I was explaining that violent reactions are not due to Islam, but due to a person’s own lack of self-control. I never said a Muslim can do anything to someone who insults God. Rather Islam teaches simply ignoring and saying “peace” to those who speak evil.

I did not say the media lies. But I did say it can often mislead people. I did say that when a Muslim commits a wrong act his faith is blamed and that is not the case for people of other faiths. Just recently, an American who was clearly not Muslim crashed his plane into an IRS building. No mention of his religion was made.

It is very clear from anyone who attended the presentation, that I did nothing but condemn any and all acts of violence and terrorism. I also stated that Islam is against terrorism and those who do acts of terror do not represent my faith. Is it a crime or wrong for me to say that? Are we afraid of Muslims who reject terrorism and condemn it instead of making Islam look bad by supporting it? People like you should support people like me, who are working hard to condemn terrorism and violence.

I will continue to work hard to promote an accurate understanding of Islam. My faith has nothing to do with terrorism and those who commit terrorism in the name of Islam are simply distorting the teaching which I love and hold dear, just as my words have been distorted. My track record of speaking against violence speaks for itself. It would be a great service to your readership if facts were verified and all relevant parties contacted before publication. I thank you for giving me this opportunity to clear up any misunderstandings.

Hassan Shibly, Co-founder of the Center for American Muslim Understanding, is pursuing a Juris Doctor at that University at Buffalo Law School, where he serves on the Human Rights Advisory Committee and is a Public Interest Law Fellow.

***

 

The true nature of Islam

By Nonie Darwish

Mr. Hassan Shibly states that he was disturbed by my article and by the anonymous letter and alleged false claims by the concerned mother. My response is: The mother is well known to the school and perhaps to Mr. Shibly himself through the school. The mother, with whom I am still in contact, stands by everything she said and what her son reported.

Mr. Shibly advises me to do proper research. Well, that’s exactly what I did to write my article. I took a look at the myspace internet profile of Hassan Shibly and I could not see any indication of a moderate Muslim who is interested in reaching out to others. I do not see a non-confrontational peace loving Muslim but much blame and finger-pointing. Mr. Shibly has an Islamic Logo on the top left corner that says “Allahu Akbar” with mosque minarets in the shape of missiles pointing in all direction. He posted songs with a morbid message obsessed with death, burial, hoping for paradise and fear of hell. The songs are part of culture of death and ‘torture of the grave’ taught to kids in Saudi Arabia. Some of the songs say:

“Remember.. in the end.. the dust is our bed”, “What do you need now, education, career money… breathing.. my soul must fly. Heaven, hell…times up… we shall rejoice while others burn (apparently in Hell).”

He also has a post on the anti-Semite and anti-Israel George Galloway who also supports Hezbollah and Hamas. There is not one thing mentioned in favor of extending understanding and tolerance to Jews, Christians or any other minority persecuted by Muslims. You would think a person involved in interfaith dialogue would be doing soul searching as to what Muslims can do to bring peace and harmony — or at least admit that Muslims are persecuting Christian Copts in Egypt. Not once does he criticize Muslims; all the blame is on Jews and Westerners.

The Shiblys refuse to denounce Hezbollah and Hamas as terror groups. Hassan Shibley wrote:

“Hezbollah is basically a resistance movement supported by people in Lebanon, both Muslims and Christians. It is not merely a military institution; it provides a lot of social services for people of all different faiths. They’re absolutely not a terrorist organization; their targets have always been military targets. They wear uniforms and operate overtly. Under American just war theory, since they have a political base and popular support from the people, any war against them is illegitimate.”

In an April 17th speech, Mr. Shibley said:

“The twentieth century has ended and America has emerged as the dominant World Superpower. Since World War two it has perused an aggressive imperialistic foreign policy consisting of both covert and overt interventions abroad to maintain world supremacy. The US has supported unpopular regimes and governments within the Middle East: The Shah, in Iran; The Saudi Royal Family; and the Israeli state to name but a few agents the US has supported to ensure their oil interests. Over the past thirty years, a pattern of American Imperial Intervention in the Middle East has become apparent.”

I think such negative views of America are very similar to the excuses Islamists use to explain away jihadist aspirations in the West. Both Shiblys have admiration for Syrian sheikhs Ahmad Kuftaro and Rajab Deeb. Sheikh Kuftaro, who was recently deceased, promoted interfaith spirituality but only on his English language website. However, like many Muslim leaders, in his Arabic language website, he promoted intense Jew-hatred, such as Jews are “the killers of prophets;” “Israel is a dagger in the heart of the Muslim nation;” “All Muslims are obligated to do jihad upon the Zionists.” Sheikh Deeb stated that “Jerusalem is ours.”

Hassan Shibly have also attended an Islamic conference in Toronto, about which the Department of Homeland Security said:

“… we had credible intelligence that conferences similar to the one from which these individuals were leaving were being used by terrorist organizations to fundraise and to hide the travel of terrorists themselves.”

With all of the above, I do not understand why the Shiblys are surprised that American parents do not want them near any classroom teaching American kids. Americans cannot afford ignoring reality and living with a false sense of security promoted by the Shiblys and other Muslim front groups in America.

American public school kids have become the victims of Islamic propaganda and misinformation that paints Islam in sharp contrast to how Islam is actually being taught today in 54 Muslim countries. While Muslim kids in the Islamic world are being taught to value martyrdom, violent jihad, killing Jews, despising non-Muslims and bringing the world under the control of Sharia, we in the West are spoon-feeding American kids a politically correct unrealistic image of Islamic teachings.

Only in the West is Islam being taught as a religion of peace, harmony, equality, tolerance and equal rights. I lived in the Muslim world for 30 years but never heard that as the main purpose of Islam.

To learn the truth about what Islam advocates, just listen to Imams in Muslim countries. Read Sharia, hadith and the Quran. Approximately 61% of the Quran talks about non-Muslims, “the kafir,” and only 37% is dedicated to preaching to Muslims. An overwhelming portion of the Quran is dedicated to cursing non-Muslims and condemning them to all kinds of murder, torture, doom, humiliation, calling them unclean, partners of Satan, enemies of Allah, apes and pigs and encouraging Muslims to never take them as friends or allies.

The school districts are the ones responsible for forcing our kids to listen to such nonsense from Muslim apologists who cannot even condemn Hezbollah and Hamas as terrorist organizations. The school districts must clean up their act, end this farce and stick to basic education. As to the Shiblys, they can promote their religion of peace in their mosque, but please leave our public school kids alone and away from Islamic propaganda.

(This article appeared in Former Muslims United Website.)

Comments (48)Add Comment
0
Allah Should Destroy Jews
written by COMMON SENCE , March 09, 2010
As per muslims, quran and Allah, jews are the worst humans on earth. They have killed prophets and they have never listened to Allah, prophet muhammad.

My question is "why not Allah remove such people (jews) Himself who are His worst enemies and who are causing havoc on earth"

As per Quran and muslims Allah has destroyed earlier many nations who were not obeying His prophets. e.g Lut, Noah, Firaoun etc etc..
0
ADAM-ABRAHAM ETC NEVER EXISTED ISLAM IS A LIE
written by ADAM-ABRAHAM ETC NEVER EXISTED ISLAM IS A LIE , March 10, 2010


NO GOD/ALLAH CREATED A MAN FROM MUD/DIRT,BT MAN IS EVOLED BY NATURE FROM 1 CELLED ORGANISMS.the proof is in our dna-genes.

there was no such thing as first man,bcoz evolution is a gradual
process and this before homosapiens,homo eructus,cromagnon man,neandrethals etc existed.

of these which was created by imaginary allah ??

if any was by allah then who created the rest ????

the truth is these r evoled and step by step from one celled
orgamisns we came.

thus in the first place there was no first or exclusive adam-eve.
there was no covenant between any imaginary jehova/allah
and imaginary adam.

secondly there was no historical figure named abraham,nor
moses existed.jesus if he exited,was not a virgin born as virgins
cant give birth without male sperm.

thus entire semitic sick monoatheism is a sick joke created on
mankind created by the world's worst race=semites/arabs.

ie---jews and arabs.

arabs r just as sadistic and bad as jews,to believe that
soem imagianry jealous hateful deity will roast u in
imaginary hell if u dont bow to him exclusively and dont
wage bloody wars to kill or convert.

judeo-christianity/islam is the sickest and costliest joke
and crudest joke done on all humanity ever.

better to be a truth believer than a hateful falsehood believer
-jew-christian/muslim

truth=god=nature does not appoint exclusive prophets
t do hateful and anti humanity stuff,and all the propehets
r powerhungry sexhungry robers/looters/thieves who just
did this prophet business for their personal profit.

better than the hateful jew-christian/muslim prophets r human like
buddha,gandhi,nelson mandela,martin luther king,acharya vinaba bhave,
narayan guru,baba amte,etc who did great work for humanity and
tried to eliminate inequality,gender voilence etc....obviously they
failed bcoz ofvoilence of pisslam and its lure of 72 virgins,wine etc

vande kafir infidel bharat mataram




0
adam and eve.
written by Machmoed , March 10, 2010
from above.....What about adam and eve?
Just one woman was tempted by satan by transforming himself into a snake...how wonderful.
Where was God then and now Allah tells us that there will be a lot of these women and houri's....how do we know it won't happen again. If satan was mighty enough to outsmart God, just by one woman....then why do we believe satan won't do it again. What was satan doing in God's paradise. It's even less then a fairytale.
0
...
written by Abu Taleb , March 10, 2010
> The Quran says “Whoever kills a person it is as though he has killed all humanity.” ... However, as I said, Islam does not permit the killing of civilians so a person who kills innocents is not a true believer.

Come on Mr Shibly, doesn't Quran say in many places about killing the unbelievers? And the worst sin is being an unbeliever, so certainly the unbelievers are not the innocents. There is nothing wrong to kill them, in fact Quran commands the muslims to kill the unbelievers.

Your prophet robbed people, killed the Jews prisoners who didn't want to convert, forced the Arabs to be muslims, if it is not terrorism, then what is it?
0
innocent killings?
written by Machmoed , March 10, 2010
Islam does not permit the killing of civilians so a person who kills innocents is not a true believer.

The real question is what is the defenition of an innocent in islam? not the ones who reject allah as the only God and mohammad as his last messenger.

I think Mr. Shibli is confused about the later authors of Qor'aan. Qor'aan does tell this when it had an other author (the so called meccan sura's) before the time of the so-called Medinian time. Ironic for Mr. Shibli is that this verse is abrogated by later verses/discarded by later authors. He must have known this. Muslims also often talk about the freedom to believe/follow a religion and often they use: there is no cumpulsion in religion..........but the definite law of allah is that it is. Otherwise you belong to the loosers on earth and the hereafterlife.
0
her did u read about jihad jane?
written by odiwala , March 10, 2010
Blond hair , blue eyed jane with mission to kill , kill a Swedish artist who did hurt sentiments of Muslims in general and jane in particular.

Jane converted to ISLAM and is said to be desperate to ease suffering of Muslims . She is accused of recruiting jihadist fighters and traveling to Europe from USA to kill Swedish artist.
http://indiansawaal.com/jihad-...f-muslims/
0
Whaty can I say?
written by Ibn Kammun , March 10, 2010
What can I say?
God Bless Nonie Darwish and people like her in the west. An injection of reality is always good to the "politically correct" folks whose only concern in mideast oil.
Peace to all
0
The true nature of Islam
written by balam , March 10, 2010
The true nature of Islam is DECEIT You will never get truth from a Muslim.They believe in the biggest LIE called Islam,introduced by the biggest liar.Allah,Mohammad and Gabriel form the trinity of deception.Mohammad started with the first lie that Gabriel-the angel from God appeared to him asked him to read while he was in the cave of mount HIRA.If that angel was from God then the ALL KNOWING GOD should have known that MOHAMMAD could not read or write.Hence either that angel was not from God or Mohammad was lying.So to cover that lie.he kept lying till his death.Now the verse which says that if you kill one innocent person,it is as if you have killed the whole humanity.If you read one verse before,it tells that the JEWS have been told.It refers to the JEWISH people but stolen by master thief Mohammad and used by Muslims to cover the crimes of Muslims and getting false credit for that attributing to Mohammad.
0
...
written by duh_swami , March 10, 2010
Jane converted to ISLAM and is said to be desperate to ease suffering of Muslims


Yeah, those poor Mahoundians, are suffering all over the place...Somebody told them NO...Oh the hurt...the pain...the desperation...Someone needs to rescue these suffering masses...
Jane just got her directions mixed up...She wanted to save Mahoundians by jihad against kufr...when it is not kufr who creates this suffering...Allah creates it...Some Mahoundians here are on a jihad against the Ahadith...They and Jane should expand their jihad to include Quran, then they would be doing something to end these poor suffering people...
0
Read the verse. Total falseness.
written by Healer_999 , March 10, 2010
Mr Shibly writes "The Quran says “Whoever kills a person it is as though he has killed all humanity.”"

Why didn't he write the full verse and the following one? Trust me there is nothing in Koran that tells please do not kill people, best it says is Muslim should not kill a Muslim. Like in verse 4:092:Never should a believer kill a believer;.

Now coming to Shibly, it is obvious that he was only trying to fool people, by quoting half verse. This is what most Muslim apologists write to show Islam prohibits killing. This kind of mis information by apologists was mentioned by many Ex-Muslims.

Lets check the full verse:

005.032
YUSUFALI: On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.


See the italics part. This is what they do not mention. What is mischief? Mischief is disobedience and not paying Zizya tax. What should be done in that case?

005.033
YUSUFALI: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

This whole thing was a warning to Jews. Behave! OK. There is no universal principle here.

Now the fact Muslim apologists has to quote this false (a part) version of verse to present the supposedly peaceful side tells every thing about Islam and its true objective.
0
Jane want to be a houri
written by Machmoed , March 10, 2010
Jane is completely understandable...she just want to go to jannat and have a man who always has a hard one. She is desperate for sex....sex and violence often go hand in hand.
0
A Good Rebuff.
written by Healer_999 , March 10, 2010
It is good to see women like Wafa Sultan, Nonie Darwish and Ayaan Hirsi Ali speaking about Islam and what it wants. It is really courageous on their part.

In contrast, the work of Irshad Manji more looks like a apologist. Even Supna Zaidi is better that she speaks bravely against Sharia and CAIR etc..
0
Let's just quote the Qur'an.............
written by Tanstaafl (JW) , March 10, 2010
Quran 9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's cause; they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."

8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

8:65 "O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding."

9:38 "Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to go forth and fight in Allah's Cause you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you go forth, He will afflict and punish you with a painful doom, and put others in your place."

47:4 "When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah's Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter, either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam."

That doesn't sound very peaceful, does it?
0
True situation in Palestine.
written by Hamas are terrorists , March 10, 2010
“Hezbollah is basically a resistance movement supported by people in Lebanon, both Muslims and Christians." Hassan Shibly

Shibly should realise that the Muslims have killed or chased away the Christians from Palestine. Shibly the Muslims are not a tolerant group when they form a majority in a country.

May Israel chase out the Muslims like the Muslims have done in chasing non-Muslims in an Islamic country.
0
To M A Khan
written by Ibn Kammuna , March 10, 2010
Hello brother
the "contact us" link to your left on the main page is not working on my computer. I do not know if this is due to a broken link or something else. Just wanted to let you know. Peace
0
Ultimate goal of Islam and permitted means
written by Demsci , March 10, 2010
Hassan Shibly says he speaks out against terrorism done by self-confessed Muslims and he that that is against Islam.

But what many of us eventually would like to ask Muslims is:
A. What is the endgoal of Islam? In the whole world in 21st century? In the now democratic countries? In the now Islamic countries?
B. By what means do Muslims want to reach the goal of Islam? Is it only through fair democratic means, like the rest of the inhabitants of the democratic countries and many too in Islamic countries want, or is violence and deceipt permitted as the end justifies the means?
C. When Islamic values and rules undoubtedly are in opposition with the values and rules of Democratic countries and Enlightenment, what will the majority of Muslims choose?
D. And when a part of the Muslims are definitely enemy to the Enlightenmentculture and its most powerful nation, America, what will the rest of the Muslims choose?

The Muslims and their so called fair minded defenders do not even come near answering these questions, the asking of which is considered Islamophobic and hateful. Islam is treated as a private religion which must be totally innocent, harmless, even exempted from any criticism or accusations, it seems. But that is very wrong, because Islam is manmade, and everything manmade is faulty and criticized all the time. And even if Islam would be divine, then it would be so good, it could withstand scrutiny and criticizing with ease.

But a part of the Democratic people is aware of the danger posed to its entire system en the obstruction to its rise in Islamic countries, where religious minorities are often oppressed and disadvantaged. And people like Hassan Shibly should understand that no longer can say, with an air of authority, without being challenged, that Islam is a religion of peace and that terroristic people cannot be Muslims.

Who is he to determine that so arrogantly? The 1,57 billion Muslims enormously lack consensus about what Islam is, about many many aspects of it. Their explanations are often very unclear and ambiguous. And 95 % of them has not much knowledge or the wrong knowledge of Islam anyway. Whereas now there are so many Islam-experts among the Democratic people, both about Quran/ Sahih Hadith and personal experience, because of being ex-Muslims, having lived in Islamic countries/ communities. Very honorable, logical people too.

So, Hassan Shibly, don't lecture us about what Islam is or is not, but focus on the Muslim-loyalty-question to the goals of Islam or the goals of Democracy in 21st century .
0
...
written by y.m , March 10, 2010
Mr,Shibly you cannot play taqyyia with kafirs any more.Mr,Healer rightly stated and has exposed why you did not write the full verse? This is just another deceitful tactic used by true muslims.We the kafirs know that in the communities of the world the muslims are people that have tried hard to understand their holy book,but as much they have tried,the less they have understood.Non-muslims have tried less but they understand better.Mr,Shibly if you take the evil out of islam then you left nothing.When you see terrorism and killing all over the world it is because of islam.It is obligatory for a muslim to terrorise a kafir.(sura Anfal)What does the Quran do to make the mind evil and turn a normal person into terrorist.The evidences are that the European atheists those converted to islam became terrorist.What make them terrorist?The answer is only the religious teaching of islam.peace
0
innocent to a muzzie? ha NEVER
written by Kohi , March 10, 2010
The real question is what is the defenition of an innocent in islam?"

To a muzzie there is NO ONE who is innocent ANYTHING they do is fine in there queerran.
But of course the muzzie apologists will tell us we are all WRONG it really not what they believe please give us a break I just hope Ms. Darwish keps safe from the crazy muzzie mass who want to hurt her for speaking out.
0
...
written by The Truth , March 10, 2010
Knowing what the Islamic apologists are propagating in the western world. Worst of all these propagtion is very platable to the western leader, the leftist and the media , we must have a counter action to stop this and provide the alternative view which is the truth. Many innocent youg man and women, in the west were being lure into joining this evil cult without knowin the implication until it is too late.
To all the peace loving people in the west, there is an urgent task in front of you to know Islam critically and propagate the truth to all your people so they will not be misled into this evil cult.
0
Editor.
written by Reed Wilson , March 11, 2010
My posts do not appear after your review.
0
Kill them.
written by Andrew, x , March 11, 2010
Tanstaafl (JW): You have quoted 9:5, 9:12, 8:39, 8:65, 9:38 and 47:4 from Quran. You will observe that a war, even if not between truth and evil, was going on. Both the parties want to kill each other. If one was stopped, the other will kill. That's why it doesn't sound very peaceful!!
0
2 Andrew
written by Machmoed , March 11, 2010
Qor'an isn't the only scripture that preeches hatred Andrew. The only difference is that only muslims believe it is the litteraly word of Allah for eternity. No jew or christian believes that he/she has to fight for god's cause in a fysical way......at least not anymore. In islam this is ordained and it is for eternity.
0
Andrew...
written by duh_swami , March 11, 2010
Andrew...You will observe that a war, even if not between truth and evil, was going on.

The war is always between Islam and kufr...and there is always a war...Quran 8:39 and some others, including those listed, guarantee's it...Thanks to Allah, Gabriel, Mohammad and some primitives, Islam has continually been at war...except for short periods of times when Islam was beaten into submission...

Occasionally Islam fought itself for power...Even Aisha got together an army and attacked Ali...she lost...She was not killed but given a penalty that was something like 'house arrest'...Islam is a war ideology, it always was and it still is...
There is simply nothing peaceful about it...
0
To AndrewX and to all,
written by Healer_999 , March 11, 2010
Is there any proof that war is going on? AndrewX should give proof from Koran. But I will give proof why Islam (Koran) wages a war against others for eternity, every thing here is taken from Koran.

Yes, there was a war going on, if one reads carefully 8:39 and 9.005, you will find who is waging war on whom and why?

8:39 along with 2.193 clearly describe when the jihad(war) has to stop.

What does this statement say "religion is only for Allah"?

The core of Islamic theology says Fitna and shirk are crimes (proper phrase is worst crime) against Allah or in the eyes of Allah.

Muslim might ask 'where in Koran it says'?

It says many things like:

1.Allah does not love infidels (30:45 and 22:3smilies/cool.gif

2.Allah forbids friendship between Muslims and non Muslims (4:144, 4:101, 5:51). Koran has more verses of this kind.

3.
025.055
YUSUFALI: Yet do they worship, besides Allah, things that can neither profit them nor harm them: and the Misbeliever is a helper (of Evil), against his own Lord!

It is this one directly tells non Muslims are aggressors against Allah and Muslims, in the sense that they (Muslims) are always defenders and disbelief is a aggression by very nature and they should be fought.

4. Allah says disbelievers are wild beasts (8:55, 98:6).

5. Here are infamous and notorious verse of Jews as apes (2:63-65, 5:59-60, 7:166)

6.In verses 7:175-179, disbelievers are like dogs and worse than cattle.
Now if I am correct dog is not an animal looked kindly by Muslims and with sympathy.

7.
040.010
YUSUFALI: The Unbelievers will be addressed: "Greater was the aversion of Allah to you than (is) your aversion to yourselves, seeing that ye were called to the Faith and ye used to refuse."


040.010
YUSUFALI: The Unbelievers will be addressed: "Greater was the aversion of Allah to you than (is) your aversion to yourselves, seeing that ye were called to the Faith and ye used to refuse."

Hatred and abhorrence are the words used in other translations in place of aversion in the above verse.

014.030
YUSUFALI: And they set up (idols) as equal to Allah, to mislead (men) from the Path! Say: "Enjoy (your brief power)! But verily ye are making straightway for Hell!"

You can dig hundreds of such as these verses from Koran, word of Allah. Besides these there are verses how Allah punishes disbelievers in heaven describing to a minute detail. (4:56, 22:019-021, 66:06, 3:10).

Some more:

025.052
YUSUFALI: Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness, with(Koran).

No other translation mentions 'Koran' in the above verse.

058.020
YUSUFALI: Those who resist Allah and His Messenger will be among those most humiliated.


Who is aggressor here?

058.021
YUSUFALI: Allah has decreed: "It is I and My messengers who must prevail": For Allah is One full of strength, able to enforce His Will.

So all these tell only one thing: Fitna and shirk are like aggression and crime against Allah. So those verses of violence, calling for more, passages to fight are meant for eternity. Why do you think scholars say disbelief should be fought?

It is the simplest logic used here.

By very this logic there is no place for non Muslims in Islam.

And Muslims say it is the Religion of Peace.
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logic V Islam
written by Kohi , March 11, 2010
"By very this logic there is no place for non Muslims in Islam"

BINGO and yet they want to "get along" till they DON'T so backwards it is SCARY. Now lets here about how all of the folks here and the site Mang. ARE just not UNDERSTANDING the truth
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love-jihad case
written by rationalist , March 11, 2010
Jihadi Romeo kills Pregnant Hindu girl inside Public Toilet

Lover murders pregnant girlfriend in public loo

Soumittra S Bose, TNN, Mar 8, 2010



source: Timesofindia



NAGPUR: Tragedy struck Sakhre family of Bhankheda the second time in just over a month. It had lost eldest son Prateek, 28, to illness just five weeks ago. On Sunday when the family was preparing for the ritual after completion of one-and-quarter month of Prateek’s death, the body of their second daughter, 20-year-old Pallavi, was found in community latrine for the women’s, strangled to death by her lover. Initial investigations revealed that Pallavi was four months pregnant.

She was allegedly coaxed into physical intimacy before being strangled inside the congested latrine. Sources from Tehsil police station said that Pallavi was smothered before she was throttled with her own kameez and her partially naked body left. Police have arrested Pallavi’s paramour Mohammed Shamim, alias Shammi, 25, a married man, for the murder. Police have applied the charge of murder (302 of the Indian Penal Code) but are yet to decide on adding rape charge. Pallavi was first year student of arts’ stream in PWS college.

Shamim, a carpenter, was apparently having an amorous relationship with Pallavi for last two years. She had also undergone abortion once in the past. Sources claimed that Pallavi was demanding some money from Shamim to terminate her pregnancy and also wanted him to marry her. She had threatened Shamim, who is married to Rizwana Parveen and has a nine-month-old daughter, that she would go to his house on Sunday. Police said that this led to an altercation between them resulting in violent end. Sources said that Shamim’s wife Rizwana already knew about the affair and was livid about it. Police said that Shammi had called up on Pallavi’s younger sister Rinku’s cellphone at 10 pm on Saturday. He wanted to speak to Pallavi who was sitting outside the home.

“My sister left home after the call,” said Rinku adding that the family was busy preparing for Sunday’s ritual when Pallavi sneaked out of home without speaking to anyone. Family members were worried when she did not return in the night. “We were not sure what to do. This had never happened before. But we did not approach the police,” said Pallavi’s distraught father Yogeshwar. Pallavi’s mother Shardabai, who was sobbing uncontrollably, works with the Nagpur Municipal Corporation. The family wanted to resume searching in the morning as relatives and others were expected at the residence for the rituals. In the morning, it was left shocked when a few women from the neighbourhood raised an alarm seeing body of Pallavi inside the latrine.

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No need a war to become the enemy of Islam
written by Abu Taleb , March 11, 2010
No need a war to become the enemy of Islam, if someone simply blocks Islamic movement or preaches something than Islam, s/he can be declared as the enemy of Islam, and can/should be killed. If you wear a cross or carry a bible for example, you can be killed because you have become the enemy of Islam.

At one extreme, raising your kids as non muslims can be considered as hostile to Islam because Islam believes that every body borns as a muslim, so you have converted yor kids to become non muslims and you deserve a death penalty even if you never do anything against Islam/muslims. It may sound very extreme, but it is very arguable, so every ulama can say that and there will certainly be many muslims will follow that.
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Jews are enemies of Islam/Mohammad, not enemies of the GOD
written by ha ha ha ..... , March 12, 2010
I never think that a creator, in this case, GOD, will accused His own creation. Mo hated Jews because they didn't accept him as a prophet from God. So he kept on accusing them, followed by most moslems around the world. It is sad that the moslems cannot understand such a simple logic like that. I think Mo as the worst prophet ever existed in the world, causing hatred, killing, robbery, rape, to innocent people. I think we will see Mo at the bottom of hell for eternity, ha ha ha .......
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To Abu Taleb
written by Beowulf , March 12, 2010
What you wrote about is how the Ottomans justified kidnapping the children of non-muslims and raising them as muslims. Islam is a horrible religion. Not peaceful at all.
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Who waged the war?
written by Andrew, X , March 12, 2010
To Healer.999.
Thanks for understanding that war was going on.
Who waged the war and why? These are different questions.
I am sure you will yourself find the answer from Quran.
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To AndrewX,
written by Healer_999 , March 12, 2010
Any one can infer only two things from that post, one understands that Muslims are waging a war and other thinks they should keep eyes closed and be more irrational.

I found out and only a blind one like you can not find out. So your true color has come out now and probably next step is chest thumping or looking for a belt.

Best of Luck.
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Fine morals for the records
written by Ganesh , March 12, 2010
It is all so gratifying to hear all those peace loving versus from Koran.It is unislamic to kill innocents,to kill' people' etc blah blah.But when one probes the definition of 'innocents' and 'people'it could be a shock to learn that they mean only muslims.SO all those seemingly universal brotherhood prescriptions in the terror manual are for issues within the family.
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Just look at Muslim countries to see the nature of Islam
written by lw1 , March 12, 2010
Look at most Muslim countries and you see problems created by Islam.From an young age Quran prepares them to fight for Islam and consider non-believers as enemies who either adopt Islam or face consequences.Striking the neck is not always possible as it was in the middle ages. Now there is more scrutiny,but still in Pakistan and Bangladesh, non-muslim numbers have plummeted through killing and forced conversions.In India Muslim population has increased and they are treated favorably in education and jobs through force of law and they get subsidy for going to Hajj. No Muslim country gives subsidy for Hajj.Also payment for Hajj has to be from your own money,so all who are taking subsidy(and most of them are not loyal to India) are going to Hajj but not really getting credit for it. This is the same situation as asylum seekers who live in the country that has given shelter,but are not loyal to it.The true God would not approve this, as it is unfair.Why has Allah so much problem with non-believers ? Why does it bother him? Instead of letting everyone make their own choice and either go to jannat or hell,why does he tell believers to force non-believers into converting or death?Allah is definitely not merciful, but vindictive. That is not divine characteristic.Let us remember just one line from Pope's speech -- ...'Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by sword the faith he preached.'
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To Ganesh,
written by Healer_999 , March 12, 2010
Are you new here? If so, welcome and pass this info to your friends esp. stupid women.
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Muslims and Islam.
written by Andrew, x. , March 13, 2010
To friends.
It is observed that muslim and Islam is often considered as one thing. This leads to confusion which we find all around on this site. Muslim is an ethnic group, often misnomer, and Islam is an ideology or whatever you call it. It is definitely not same as people.
Loosely using the terms result in chaos. Labor wasted and logic abused.
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To Muslims addressing people here as friends (AndrewX),
written by Healer_999 , March 13, 2010
Read the following:

004.144
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?


004.101
YUSUFALI: When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers May attack you: For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.



You will go straight to hell where your punishment will be some thing like this:

004.056
YUSUFALI: Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.


022.019
YUSUFALI: These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord: But those who deny (their Lord),- for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water.


022.020
YUSUFALI: With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins.
PICKTHAL: Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted;


022.021
YUSUFALI: In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them.
PICKTHAL: And for them are hooked rods of iron.
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The Lior Nonie is Still Lying
written by fuaad , March 13, 2010
This is amazing moment that Darwish who is an Apostate is critizining Islam.
Mr hassan is a good easy-going, evil-free man. and yet she want to label every muslim as Trerrorist.

if He said Hezbollah and hamaz are not terrorist Yes He is right they are resistance groups who want to liberate thier homelands.

Yest the Zionist is the one who is behind the killing of the children and women of the land.

Ms Darwish May god reward you- inshallah" You will see what you want. You are the hind of the 21st century who is thirsty to eat an organ of her people ( go to palestine and bu an stealed organ from the children of Palestine) go go
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X+Y=X+Y.
written by Andrew, x. , March 13, 2010
Healer_999.
When I address as friends, I mean friends.
I hope you understood the message. Muslim and Islam are two things.
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All idiots defending/offending cruelty in the world in this forum
written by Ahamed Shareef , March 13, 2010
Do not quote statements of quran as you wish....Read right quran, not the one translated by idiots.

Whether it is Hizbollah or Israel both are doing the crime against human beings...which needs to be condemned, not appreciated...

Races in the older years have always occupied other countries in the past and this exists with every religion or culture....

Think of a great alexander who wanted to win the world..!We call him a great alexander and use him in our dramas/movies!!

Think of a great king ashoka who killed lacs of people in war against kalinga and then converted ito buddhism.....!!

Think of indian kings who expanded there kingdom through wars and we worship them today...

This type of un-human cruelty exists in every religion/country/culture in the past...This should not be the reason for attacking muslims in today's world....like occupying israel from muslims...not allowing palestine to function just because they dont want to accept Isreal's dominism...

What we need is tolerance between religions in today's context, which is not existing anywhere in the world....

Within hinduism, we have thousands of casts and infighting between them...!! if this is the fact, crooked fanatics fighting between religions is not a surprise at all!!

This forum should facilitate communal harmony building and should not instigate dishormony between the religions....

I am surprised great educated guys like you are fighting without any head and tail to your topics..!!
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To Ahamed Shareef,
written by Healer_999 , March 13, 2010
You have an ignorant or a crooked mind, I can say it comfortably.

If, me referring to translation by Yusuf Ali is not the right one or foolish, you suggest the right one and quote from that and debunk me. Instead why write a satire?

You are mixing history with religion to show Islam is like any other religion. This kind of argument indicates destitute of proper historical knowledge.

Then you quote castes in Hinduism and infighting. Is blood being shed? Yes there is political infighting. But I can not see how we should generalize this or this fits in to present topic, true nature of Islam.

Any way, does't that become a Hindus problem? Muslims are not going to be effected or threatened by this infighting, in fact advantage is being taken of this current political situation. Peace, stability and development in this world are not at risk. This infighting is not going to produce terrorists and mass murderers, most importantly suicide bombers. This political infighting is direct consequence of democracy and elections.

Instead of refuting this charge (True Nature of Islam by Nonie Darwish), you are only trying to divert the topic.

Then you say religious harmony should be promoted and this forum should not instigate disharmony. Trust me that is what exactly this website aims to do by showing what Islam really means.

Promoting harmony? How do we promote it when Islam's holy book Koran says presence of other religions and belief systems is a crime, rebellion an act of aggression against Allah?

or how can it be promoted when Allah ordains warfare against infidels for eternity?

Islam is the only religion which looks at the world in us and them philosophy explicitly.
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I can not understand.
written by Healer_999 , March 13, 2010
My post simply didn't come up, I don't know what is happening.
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Reply!
written by Healer_999 , March 13, 2010
My post which didn't come up was a reply to Ahamed Shareef.

I guess I have to type again.
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Ahamed Shareef
written by duh_swami , March 13, 2010
Just what is Israel occupying?

Ahmed...This should not be the reason for attacking muslims in today's world...

It would seem that Muslims are doing plenty of attacking on their own in today's world...

Ahmed...What we need is tolerance between religions in today's context, which is not existing anywhere in the world....

You should talk to your brothers about that, since Muslims have little or no tolerance for other religions...
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Maybe non-Muslims already understand Islam better
written by Demsci , March 14, 2010
Ahamed Sharif,

The Quran is read by non-Muslim Islam-experts in both Arabic and good translations, as there are by now many ex-Muslims, who understand it in Arabic. Furthermore there are Islam-professors whose profession it is to understand Islam. In this period of human history Islam is getting to be known to ever more non-Muslims ever better. And rightly so, because Islam belongs to all mankind, not just to its believers. The knowledge and understanding of non-Muslim Islam-experts is now very higher, higher than that of the majority of Muslims and maybe as high as the best Islam-experts among the Muslims. And Non-Muslim Islam-experts are to be considered as endowed with just as or more honorable motives than Muslims. And probably with much more logic.

And what all of us learn about Islamic teachings, Quran & Sahih Hadith, and what self-confessed Muslims do in response to them can be interpreted differently. In a best way all the way to a worst way, for Muslims and Non-Muslims both.

Because of love, respect, harmony and unity Muslims and Political Correct people urge us, the non-Muslims, no, demand from us, that we do not even try to understand Islam, but if we do, that we interpret all the data in the "best way", and respect this so called Divine message and nullify any possible influence on bad deeds & situations caused by followers.

But if the worst case of the meaning and consequences of Islam is considered, then there is a big threat, to: democratic values and rules, religious minorities in Islamic countries and women in Islamic communities. You have no right to demand from us never to take that into account and let us be led to our downfall if the worst case is true, forcing us to blindly trust all Muslims, regardless of their numbers, power, actions, situations.

So you spoke arrogantly, without having tried to understand what Islam means to us, non-Muslims, assuming that we did not know Islam, while Muslims do know it. But with knowledge, both Muslims AND non-Muslims have many knowledgeable and ignorant people, it gets more and more even in this period.

This means, that if you really want harmony, you have to address our concerns, for that you have to try to understand them, humbly and modestly acknowledging that Muslims no longer have the advantage of more Islam-knowledge and understanding.
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islam=poo!
written by Kohi , March 15, 2010
In this period of human history Islam is getting to be known to ever more non-Muslims ever better"

yeah Demsci for the poo it is (islam). Once upon a time knew little about this cult now know more than want to and try to warn others of a deathdealing mindless robots that is pisslam
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Mr Shibly...are you for real?
written by Kooz E. Mack , March 19, 2010
Of course, not every Muslim is a Terrorist. However, every Terrorist is inevitably a Muslim!!
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cross the line and bear the ancient grunt.
written by atze de vries , October 09, 2010
I am one of those whom did not accept the imported religions from the middle east, because they have caused humanity endless bloodshed and trouble true the ages, calling themselves infidels. I am just tired of all of you, calling yourselves believers and follow those whom created all these atrocities in the name of religion. Ignorant horse asses. Let me be and don't ever come near me or my next of kind, because I will get my pound off flesh in a very ancient way, trust me !!!
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What is infidel
written by atze de vries , November 16, 2010
Religion, was for the times that mankind did not have access to the evolutionary science and facts known today. Tough strong headed religious leaders, and Islamic heads of states, clamp down on this by all secretarial means available to them, thus to so stay meaning full to their followers. They so undermine free western studies, and create total ignorance from outside influences, and in the same time they do everything in their power to spread their own ideology. Are they not the ones to say that whom ignores their religion is infidel, I wonder whom is more ignorant ??..

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