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The Prophets: Muhammad versus David Mitchell, David Koresh & Jim Jones

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Sex and lies of prophets, from Muhammad to modern American prophets...


The common traits of amongst many prophets are desires of having power over their disciples, abusing those powers to their advantages and using those powers to have a lot of sex with different partners. American prophets Mitchell, Koresh and Jones were no different and shared these prophetic traits with Islamic Prophet Muhammad.

PROPHET DAVID MITCHEL

prophet- david mitchelHe was a prophet from Utah. Unfortunately his prophethood was short-lived and he ended up in prison only after a year in prophet service.

He announced his prophethood when he was in his 50s. Like Prophet Muhammad, before his prophethood, he had only one elderly wife “Wanda Barzee”. After becoming a prophet, his God ordered him to acquire young beautiful wives. While Prophet Muhammad carried this order of God very successfully and succeeded in capturing hundreds of young beautiful women, Prophet Mitchel succeeded only in capturing one pretty young girl, 14-year-old Elizabeth Smart, whom he kidnapped from her home. His attempt to capture another pretty young girl, who happened to be a younger cousin of Elizabeth, ended in failure as the home-alarm cut short his pursuit. He then decided to be contended with just one right hand possession and gave up looking for other women for the time being. Prophet Muhammad and Prophet Mitchell were both old, but very active sexually. Prophet Muhammad had sex with multiple captured women every day and prophet Mitchell had sex multiple times with the same captured woman every day. Here is Elizabeth's testimony in court about prophet Mitchell's sexual capability.

By JENNIFER DOBNER, Associated Press Writer –

SALT LAKE CITY – Taking the stand for the first time since she was snatched from her girlhood bedroom seven years ago, Elizabeth Smart testified Thursday that her captor raped her three or four times a day.

Like Prophet Muhammad, who enjoyed sex with underage Aisha, and not with 50+ years old wife Sauda, Prophet Mitchell also enjoyed sex with underaged Elizabeth and not with 50+ wife Barzee. Mitchell thought of dumping Barzee, ditto with Muhammad, who tried to dump Sauda.

Prophet Mitchell got his orders to have sex from his god in his divine manual “The Book of Immanuel David Isaiah”, while Prophet Muhammad got his orders from Allah in verse 33:50 of his divine manual “al-Qur’an”.

Asked by a prosecutor to describe Brian David Mitchell, the self-described prophet accused of holding captive for nine months, Smart replied: “Evil, wicked, manipulative, stinky, slimy, greedy, selfish, not spiritual, not religious, not close to God.

Had any woman like Safia, Juwairia, Rehana or others like them, raped by Prophet Muhammad on the same night he had killed her husband, been asked to give their opinion about the Prophet of Islam, do you really believe that their answer would have been any different than Elizabeth Smart's regarding Mitchell. Take a guess.

PROPHET DAVID KORESH

Prophet david KoreshBorn Vernon Wayne Howell, he was the leader of a Branch Davidian religious cult, believing himself to be the final PROPHET. Howell had his name legally changed to David Koresh on May 15, 1990.

Prophet Muhammad’s first sex-encounter was with a much older woman, 40year-old Khadija, when he himself was only 25. Prophet Koresh also had his first sexual encounter when he was age 24 with a 76-year-old woman Lois Roden. There, it seems, is some connection between sex with old women and an urge to become a prophet afterwards. David Koresh announced his prophethood soon afterwards.

As with Prophet Muhammad and his only first wife Khadija, David initially had been teaching that monogamy was the only way to live. But after he announced his prophethood, he suddenly announced that polygamy was allowed for him. Like Prophet Muhammad took Aisha as his second wife when she was 6, Koresh slept with Karen Doyle, aged 14, in 1986. He claimed her as his second wife. Prophet Muhammad later on announced that he is allowed to have sex with anyone he wanted (Qur’an 33.50) and started his one-night stands with the wives of his disciples and captured women. Similarly in September 1986, Koresh began to preach that he was entitled to 140 wives, 60 women as his “queens” and 80 as concubines, which he based upon his interpretation of the Biblical Song of Solomon. Like Prophet Muhammad, Prophet Koresh also was crazy for underage women. Once Prophet Koresh was able to convince himself that it was God’s will that he was able to be free of guilt and have sex with as many young girls as he could get his hands on.

Former members of the cult also alleged that Koresh felt he could claim any of the females in the compound as his, the same way prophet Muhammad felt that he had a right to attack any village in Arabia and capture any woman he wanted for sex.

Like Prophet Muhammad took the wives of his young disciples after they got killed in his Jihadi raids and enjoyed them, Prophet Koresh would annul marriages of couples, who joined his cult, and then have exclusive sexual access to the new women.

PROPHET JIM JONES

Prophet Jim JonesJames Warren “Jim” Jones (May 13, 1931 – November 18, 1978) was the founder and leader of the Peoples Temple, which is best known for the November 18, 1978 death of more than 900 Temple members in Jonestown, Guyana along with the deaths of five other people, including a US senator, at a nearby airstrip in Georgetown, Guyana.

Jones was born in Indiana and started the Temple in that state in the 1950s. He announced his prophethood in 1970 and started preaching that he was the reincarnation of Jesus of Nazareth, Buddha and Father Divine.

He had as much power over his disciples as Prophet Muhammad had over his. Jones’s disciples happily killed others (namely a US congressman and his associates, who went to Guyana to investigate) and themselves (900 of them committed suicide) at his order, so did Muhammad's disciples. They killed thousands at his order (Quraiza and many more massacres) and got killed themselves (as glorious martyrdom, which continues today as suicide bombings etc.).

Jones’s followers gladly suffered starvation by eating very little by his order, so did Muhammad’s followers who suffer thirst and hunger all day by fasting in Ramadan.

Prophet Jones punished the defectors from his cult by killing them. Many of those, who had left his cult, were found dead mysteriously. Punishment for leaving Prophet Muhammad’s cult is also death till date. Not only that, even criticizing him or his cult is punished by death.

Prophet Jones punished severely anybody, who questioned his prophethood

Once a disciple questioned his ability to create fried chicken from thin air by his divine powers. Prophet Jones was informed of this by one of his informers. He was so pissed off that he punished him by giving him herb concoction, which made him shit all day till he almost died. So did Prophet Muhammad by punishing his skeptics severely and often having them assassinated (Asma Bint Marwan, Kab Bin Ashraf, Ibn Afak , Ibn Rafi, etc).

One of the prophet’s new young wives, Al Shanba Bint Amar Bin Ghiffurya, told prophet Muhammad in his bed, when he was about to have sex with her for the first time, that he was a fake prophet since his most beloved son 2 year old Ibrahim died in spite of his day and night prayers to Allah for his health. Prophet Muhammad was pissed off so much that his excitement for sex vanished instantly He punished her by divorcing right away and kicked her out of his house… (Tabari, vol. 9, p.136)

Prophet Jones promised his disciples a utopia on a planet in the in sky after their suicide deaths. Prophet Muhammad promised his disciples perpetual erection and 72 virgins in Janna (heaven) after their martyrdom somewhere in the sky.

Prophet Jones staged miracles to prove his prophethood. He cured blindness, paralysis and other diseases, on stage with the assistance of fake paid imposters. Like they say, the bigger the lie the more believable it becomes. Prophet Muhammad’s made-up miracles were so big that it was impossible to stage them; so he just lied about them. Today his billion plus cult-members still believe that the angel, Jibraeel, flew billions of miles daily to deliver him instructions from Allah and that he rode a flying horse “Buraq” with the face of a beautiful women, to meet Allah in the sky and inspected hell and heaven.

While Prophet Jones banned sex among Temple members outside of marriage, he himself voraciously engaged in sexual relations with both male and female Temple members. Prophet Muhammad, while banned out-of-marriage sex for his disciples, he himself engaged in sexual relations with female members of the Muslim Umma. Some hadiths talk about his occasional “hanky panky” with male members also.

COMMENT

Modern American prophets raped, committed adultery, practiced pedophilia, lied to their disciples, cheated and abused them, and one of them had people assassinated. They are all despised by decent people. One of those losers is even rotting in prison.

It is ironic that the Islamic Prophet Muhammad did all of the above on a much larger scale, yet he is adored and worshiped by a billion plus of men and women, 1400 years after his demise.

————————————————-

References

Qur’an 33:50

O prophet, we made lawful for you your wives to whom you have paid their due dowry, or what you already have, as granted to you by GOD. Also lawful for you in marriage are the daughters of your father’s brothers, the daughters of your father’s sisters, the daughters of your mother’s brothers, the daughters of your mother’s sisters, who have emigrated with you. Also, if a believing woman gave herself to the prophet – by forfeiting the dowry – the prophet may marry her without a dowry, if he so wishes. However, her forfeiting of the dowry applies only to the prophet, and not to the other believers. We have already decreed their rights in regard to their spouses or what they already have. This is to spare you any embarrassment. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

Comments (186)Add Comment
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Great, Ma'm.
written by Healer_999 , September 29, 2010
I just love reading your, no holds barred, posts. This is good and you are right.
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More similarities
written by Anti Clot , September 29, 2010
Muhammad and Islam was sometimes compared to Mormonism and its founder Joseph Smith. In both cases we can see the attempt to create a holy book in order to construct the fiction to be a prophet and leader of a chosen people. And while it is very easy to expose both attempts as fake it is much more difficult to convice the people that they are being betrayed. There are so many parallels indeed such as the many historical errors in both quran and book of mormon and there is even the practice of polygamy in both religions. In fact, there cannot have been christians or jews in precolumbian america, and there also no muslims in preislamic arabia. There was also no metallurgic industrie in the Americas and there were no coins in ancient egypt as described in the quran.
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anti clot
written by Ibn Kammuna , September 29, 2010
Hello
you say there were no coins as in Egypt....
Can you please provide source. Thank you
0
...
written by Ibn Kammuna , September 29, 2010
I meant source in the Koran
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More loyal than the king!
written by Reed Wilson , September 29, 2010
To Aisha Ahmad. Your comments "It is ironic that the Islamic Prophet Muhammad did all of the above on a much larger scale, yet he is adored and worshiped by a billion plus of men and women, 1400 years after his demise".

Why it is like that? Isnt it the fact that Tabri and other sources are fiction, conceptualized ages after the demise of Muhammad?

When people can be stupid, what is guarantee that we are not?

When people admire rape, adultery, pedophilia, cheating, abusing and murder, where do we stand? We cannot be more loyal than the king.

0
Good article...Reed...
written by duh_swami , September 29, 2010
Why it is like that? Isnt it the fact that Tabri and other sources are fiction, conceptualized ages after the demise of Muhammad?

All history books are written after the fact, sometimes hundreds of years...That alone does not make them invalid...In order for you to successfully make your point, you would have to prove that Tabari, and others (Ishaq) were conspiring, to deceive, or if they didn't actually exist either, who are the liars who wrote this, and why did they do it? And why did they load it up with trivia, like how to toilet yourself, or how much water to use washing your hair, and other secular issues?
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anti-clot
written by Machmoed , September 29, 2010
And while it is very easy to expose both attempts as fake it is much more difficult to convice the people that they are being betrayed.

Everybody knows nowadays that all religions are not based on truth. We already know this. We don't wanna hurt people, but we want to be accadamicaly correct. Do you know why a cow/bull is holy in Hinduism? do you know why moses was angry with his people for worshipping the golden bull-calf? Do you know why jews still blow on a rams horn? Do you know why fish are important in the bible (NT)? The whole concept of the bible and before is about astrology and the evidence for that can be found in those (holy) books. I agree, the arabs really didn't understand it and took it litterally same as many christians still do. If we are talking about ideology, then the ideology of NT is the best (jesus). If we talk about did god had anything to do with it, then they all are liars (all religions).
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To Kammuna: Coins
written by Anti Clot , September 29, 2010
It is the Surah 12:20 Yusuf (Joseph),
Sahih International
And they sold him for a reduced price - a few dirhams - and they were, concerning him, of those content with little.
Muhsin Khan
And they sold him for a low price, - for a few Dirhams (i.e. for a few silver coins). And they were of those who regarded him insignificant.

Here it is showed that the quran even mentioned Dirhams which is the arabic transscriptions of Drachma which is of greek origin but was later also in use in the Roman and Sassanides empires - but much later. However, during the supposed lifetime of Joseph ( I personally think that he is all fiction) there were no coins in use in Egypt and - of course - no Drachmas! This is totally anachronistic and the same if anybody would write that Muhammad watched TV. The old egyptians simply did not have the right technologies in place to produce coins nor did they have the economic structures for a money-ruled economy. Accordingly, there were never any coins found from ancient egypt nor any scriptures that provided evidence for coins though there were found so many documents of all sorts - parchments, papyri and texts written onto walls and ceramics and so on. So why should Allah refer to Drachmas when talking about Yusuf in ancient Egypt? The reason is that, the story, which was by and large copied from the bible, was written much later by people who had no idea about ancient egypts. It is also possible that here was a translation error inplay: Drachma means to grasp or a handful of something. So in the original greek text of the septuaginta the word could have meant a handful of silver. But if translated into arabic it is obvious that the talk is about coins in the currency of Drachmas but this is definetely wrong.
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I wonder?
written by Steve , September 29, 2010
What would the world be like today, if we did not have "religion" in our brain cells? Perhaps one exception: The Flying Spaghetti Monster. Well, maybe not! How about us acting at least like our apelike ancestors? Or were they killers too? Remember...Homo sapiens is the most dangerous animal on the planet. Maybe we need someone to invent the Stupid Pill so that we don't have the knowledge to build bombs, RPGs, or AK-47s. Its worth a try...what think ye?
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MOHAMMAD-The Sex Robot
written by balam , September 29, 2010
Again an excellent and well researched article about Mohammad byAyesha Ahmed.Most Kinky men do have a much higher sex drive.To achieve that,Mohammad had to come up with some plan.Necessity is the mother of Invention.Hence Mohammad invented his Prophethood to achieve all that.Secondly,if you are tied with a much older woman for sex who has running tracks,it turns the man exteremly frusterated.It is much harder to satisfy an older woman than a younger one with whom it is more saisfying and enjoyable.Mohammad was a good SEX mechanic.Once he experienced the virgin sex with little Aisha,he enjoyed it so much that he promised the similar excitement to his followers if they would die in jihad for him,which made him winner either ways.If the Muslim warriors were victorious,he would gain 20% booty including women.And if the warriors died during Jihad,he would obviously get their widows for sex and also please Allah for caring for the widows.Allah is so kind and merciful to the Muslim Terrorists for providing 72 young virgins with permanent ERECTION for dying for Allah and Mohammad.I hope the permanent erection would not be unbearable for sex craved Muslims like their Prophet.
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Tabri conspiracy.
written by Reed Wilson , September 29, 2010
Yes duh, “All history books are written after the fact, sometimes hundreds of years...” but they do write on the basis of reliable evidence. Or else they are eye- witness or contemporary. This is technical and not strange.

Tabari may exist but his sources, I many a times submitted on these pages, are non existent. Therefore I need not prove ‘conspiring’.

Honestly speaking there are no sources available for 6th century AD or of Muhammads lifetime. Ibn Kammuna has rightly shown his helplessness when he wrote once “Yes Mr. Wilson. Instead of Ibn Kathir and Hadith books, I will rely on what you say, and on what Qur'an say.

duh, I dont want to get involved in such controversies which are already well known.

So you agreed duh, that "When people admire rape, adultery, pedophilia, cheating, abusing and murder, where do we stand? We cannot be more loyal than the king". Democracy will welcome.


0
...
written by Mokhtar Naeemi , September 29, 2010
There is a big difference between the fake american prophet and Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). Prophet Mohammad's miracles were real that is why a billion plus people still believe in them 1400 years after his death while the miracles of Jim Jones , David Koresh etc were fake which were only believed by their disciples while he lived and none afterwards . Regarding sleeping with women without marriage , fake prophets used them for pleasure while islamic prophet brought them in for food and shelter. He slept with them to give affection and moral support , not to derive pleasure from them. There is no hadith which says he had sexual intercourse and orgasm with them. Sexual intercourse without marriage is strictly prohibited in islam so how could he do it. The proof is that none of the women he is accused of sleeping with for pleasure ever got pregnant. He only had children with women he was married with. Although he did marry many widows of his friends and foes but the purpose was to give them shelter and support in their hour of need. He slept with them like a father sleeps with his child but where is the proof that he had sexual intercourse with them? He married Hazrat Aisha to make bonds with Hazrat Abu Bakr strong. Yes she was 9 when he slept with her. But where does it say he had intercourse with her. If he did then why didnt she get pregnant?
0
...
written by Mulhid , September 29, 2010
If the hadiths and the sira are ahistorical and thus irrelevant, how can one give context to many mohammadan traditions, rules and regulations?
Does a qur'an muhammadan never ask himself for instance what sura 111 mean?
AL-MASADD (PALM FIBRE, THE FLAME)
Total Verses: 5
Revealed At: MAKKA
111.001
YUSUFALI: Perish the hands of the Father of Flame! Perish he!
PICKTHAL: The power of Abu Lahab will perish, and he will perish.
SHAKIR: Perdition overtake both hands of Abu Lahab, and he will perish.
111.002
YUSUFALI: No profit to him from all his wealth, and all his gains!
PICKTHAL: His wealth and gains will not exempt him.
SHAKIR: His wealth and what he earns will not avail him.
111.003
YUSUFALI: Burnt soon will he be in a Fire of Blazing Flame!
PICKTHAL: He will be plunged in flaming Fire,
SHAKIR: He shall soon burn in fire that flames,
111.004
YUSUFALI: His wife shall carry the (crackling) wood - As fuel!-
PICKTHAL: And his wife, the wood-carrier,
SHAKIR: And his wife, the bearer of fuel,
111.005
YUSUFALI: A twisted rope of palm-leaf fibre round her (own) neck!
PICKTHAL: Will have upon her neck a halter of palm-fibre.
SHAKIR: Upon her neck a halter of strongly twisted rope.
Who was Abu Lahab? Why was he thrown into jahanna? Who was his wife? Why did Muhammad called her the wood carrier, the bearer of fuel? Why did she deserve a twisted rope of palm-leaf fibre round her (own) neck?
The qur’an itself did not give the answer. You have to read the hadiths and the sira to make sense of this sura but not only this sura. Stoning, an essential element of shari’a cannot be found in the qur’an but are proscribed in the hadiths and the sira. Hadiths and sira are indispensable in the real existing muhammadanism.
0
@ MOKHTAR NAEEMI
written by balam , September 29, 2010
You have stooped so low to protect the Immoral life of your Prophet ,I am not surprised.Even Mutafa Kemal of Turkey called Islam as the absurd theology of an IMMORAL BEDUIN.Any thoughts on that?You talk of miracles performed by Mohammad.Any evidence of that,when Mohammad claims in the Quran that he could not perform any miracles.Would you call your Prophet a LIAR!!You claim that he never had intercourse with women,he only slept with them.Was he IMPOTENT?.How come,Ayesha used to scrape SEMEN from his holy garments?You claim that there is no Hadith claiming that he had intercourse with women and had orgasm.Did he allow viewers or snoopers?Why he never had any children with Ayesha,you should consult a gynaecologist who would confirm that it destroys the capability of bearing children,if intercourse takes place at that young age.He destroyed poor Ayesha's life.
0
...
written by Mulhid , September 29, 2010
Bogus prophet Muhammad ibn Abd'allah forced his female prisoners to have sex with him, what your right hand possess (ma malakat aymanukum).
He was of course a paedophile, a child molester, a man who find sex with children pleasurable:

Sahih Bukhari:
Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234:
Volume 5, Book 58, Number 235:
Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236:
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65:
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 86:
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88:
Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151:

Sahih Muslim:
Book 008, Number 3311:

Sunan of Abu Dawud:
Book 41, Number 4915:
Book 41, Number 4916:
Book 41, Number 4917:

Mumins like Mokhtar Naeemi should read their own sacred texts before blabbering arrant nonsense.
0
...
written by Mokhtar Naeemi , September 29, 2010
Tell me one thing, if our prophet (PBUH) was all that this article is saying , why are not all the highly educated muslims, doctors ,engineers, lawyers, scientists not abandoning islam, why they continue to believe in nauzubillah a robber, killer and a rapist?. Why they are flocking to the mosques daily? Why are they going to Haj in record numbers. Why are are people converting to islam ? They all have read quran and hadiths. The article says nobody saw his miracles. what about the miracle when he broke the moon in two pieces which many saw and which is mentioned in quran and hadiths.
0
To Ayesha Ahmed
written by Vijay , September 29, 2010
As usual you came up with an excellent article. You often mix humor with facts which makes your articles fun to read . Have you considered compiling all your articles m in a book form and publish ..
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@MOKHTAR NAEEMI
written by balam , September 29, 2010
Why the Muslim professionals stay Muslims,because they are scared for their lives for apostacy.The punishment for that is DEATH.Secondly,they do not want to break family ties.Lastly,over time people do get brain washed and start dreaming about 72 black eyed virgin houries and 28 boys for eternal sex with permanent erection.Won't you be tempted too?Mohammad was certainly a genious for an illiterate man!!!
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To Balam, Mokhtar could be right
written by Ravi , September 29, 2010
Balam,
Mokhtar Naeemi may be right, Mohammed could be sleeping with all those young beauties without having sex with them . Mahatama Gandhi used to sleep naked with two young ladies without having sex with them just to train himself spiritually. How do you know the liquid Ayesha scraped from the holy clothes was not her own wetness from her youthful arousal?
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To Reed Wilson
written by J.K. , September 29, 2010
If you are a muslim, how can you doubt hadith which is history witnessed by many and chronicled by trustworthy learned scholars , but believe in quran which is a fiction authored by a schytzrophrenic ,epilleptic , lieing sex maniac. You question an account with thousands of witnesess but believe in ridiculous fairy tales without a single witnes that Allah told them to jibraeel and jibrael told them to Mohammad.
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@ RAVI
written by balam , September 29, 2010
There is a saying: All that glitters is not GOLD: Perhaps Mohatama Ghandi revered by many as a Holy man was another smilies/cheesy.gifIRTY OLD MAN;How do we know what happened under the covers?May be,he had passed it.The parents of those young girls must be pimps to allow that,just like Abu Bakr who handed over her 6 years old daughter to Mohammad,who used to thigh her according to Muslim sources.One can only love ONE WOMAN.The rest is nothing but LUST.
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Hadis based.
written by Reed Wilson , September 29, 2010
To balam. You are quite sound in your post to Naeemi. He deserved it.
He says “He married Hazrat Aisha to make bonds with Hazrat Abu Bakr strong”. On what basis he says that? Did the messenger inform him the purpose off his marrying Aisha. Marriage should have no other consideration except living together and make family.

Is it a sunnah to marry for strengthening relations with the father of bride? Why not to marry father himself.

Mustafa Kamal’s opinion is no argument. Both you and Naeemi are basing their claim on hadis. Ayesha Ahmad has used hadis to build her wonderful article. You will get tired and will get nothing.
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To Mokthar
written by aNTI cLOT , September 29, 2010
Many muslim intellectual just stay muslms because they see no other way. Instead of become murdered for apostasy the prefer to pretend to be muslims. Then they tell all the illiterte muslims and the unedufcated ones who make up the majority that islam is okay for political reasons. It is a pity but there are no political majorities in the islamic world against islam. But many political leaders in the islamic world do not really believe in islam. They are only looking for useful idiots and most muslims play this role almost perfectly. If you tell them that you hate Israel and the west than they will love you and never ask for human rights or the right for education, welfare, social justice and democracy. And the leaders will thik: Just keep em stupid and they will never mock. And BTW, it is a fairytale that so many people convert to islam. There are very few and it would be strange if there were no at all; however the numbers are very, very small and most of them are somewhat crazy in their brains. Almost all people in the developed world think that islam is something only for braindeads, for people who blow up themseves and the like. Believe me or not but Islam is over. All facts speak against islam. Islam contradicts science and all islamic societies are bankrupt except some OPEC-countries.
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To Balam
written by Mokhtar Naeemi , September 29, 2010
I dont agree with your argument that highly educated and well informed muslims do not leave islam because they are afraid of getting killed for apostacy or to mainatain family ties. There are no apsotacy laws in the west, no body kills you for leaving or not practising islam here ; yet highly educated muslims are the ones who are supporting and financing all the mosques in the west. A namesake muslim will not spend thousands of dollars just to play along or to maintain social / family ties. The reason they are in it is because they believe that islam is the truth and Prophet of islam (PBUH) was a real prophet and all others are fakes.
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To Mokhtar
written by aNTI cLOT , September 29, 2010
There are so many people making profit by destabilizing the world. The more crisis we have the higher goes the oil price. Why do you think is Ahmadinedjad always stirring hatred against Israel and the west? He knows very well that this will drive the oil price and there are many sunni leaders thinking the same. I would agree that it was Bush who destroyed the relationship between muslms and non-muslims by occupying Iraq but that does not mean that all the Saddams, Ahmadinedjads, Bin Ladens and Talibans of the islamic world are better. Islam is nothing more than an illusion, fiction but what the people really need is progress and this cannot be found in islam. Islam is the opposite of progress.
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...
written by duh_swami , September 29, 2010
duh, I dont want to get involved in such controversies which are already well known.

But that's all you talk about...

So you agreed duh, that "When people admire rape, adultery, pedophilia, cheating, abusing and murder, where do we stand?

I agree if we are talking about Islam...I stand against Islams use of those sins...

They are the way of Allah and his 'chief cook and bottle washer', Mohammad...

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to Mokhtar
written by Editor, M. A. Khan , September 29, 2010
Most Muslims know little about Islam. Most of them just memorize a few suras in Arabic, which they don't understand, for saying prayers. To understand Islam, one must read Muhammad's life (sira), hadith and the Quran. Very few Muslims do that. And those, who do, they either leave Islam or become extremists or blacksheeps: look at Osama, an engineer, al-Jawahiri, a doctor; many Imam's engage in polygamy and pedophilia, because they want to emulate Muhammad.

And of course, the social pressure is big, plus the fear of being killed if one living in Islamic countries. I have two friends in my village back home, who left Islam because of my influence. Both of them have to say regular prayers to survive. Their businesses would not survive, if they don't go to mosques. If they declare them apostates, they may not be killed because Muslims are moderate there unlike in Saudi or Pakistan, but their businesses would be dead right away, they would become social pariah, however good people they are.
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Conjecture, figment and fiction.
written by Reed Wilson , September 29, 2010
To M. A. Khan. I agree with you. Your assessment of Muslims is correct.

You write "To understand Islam, one must read Muhammad's life (sira), hadith and the Quran". Here I slightly differ. Hadis and sira are not must.

We don’t need reading Jesus life to understand Christianity. Similarly we don’t need knowing life of Moses for Judaism. It is all in Bible.

My observation is irrespective of the fact that hadis and sira are not reliable and are conjecture, figment and fiction.

Allergy for scriptures is found in all religious denominations. People are evasive for discipline and tending to avoid commitment.

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Controversies.
written by Reed Wilson , September 29, 2010
duh-swami. But that's all you talk about.

I get involved in 'such' controversies willy nilly. What I am interested most is word of God. What God says, what God expects us to do.

You can guess yourself in my writings.
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To Wilson
written by Mokhtar Naeemi , September 30, 2010
Islam does not exist without hadith Mr Wilson. Dont compare quran with bible. You can understand bible by reading it. Quranic ayas have neither chronolgy nor context, and to understand the chronology and context you need hadiths and sira.Quran's statement obeying Mohammad is obeying Allah(4.80) and Mohammad is your role modelI(33.21) make hadiths and siras as important as quran since quran does not have details of Prophet's life to make him a role model nor does it have his sayings to obeying him. You appear to be a convert. No wonder your statements are heretic. In my country Pervezians question hadiths. They have been declared apostates and you know the punishment for renegades (death , 4.89), any muslim can kill him and be rewarded the janna according to aya9.111. If you deny hadiths and siras as authentic deeds and words of Prophet then how can you say quran is authentic words of Allah? Islam is blind faith in quran as Allah's words and hadiths as Prophet's words and deeds. It is a package. One without the other may be your custom made religion but it is not islam.
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Mokhtar Naeemi
written by Learner_hermit , September 30, 2010
Whilst i have have logical issues with Mr Naeemi's defence of Islam, I do admire his sincerity as a true muslim. Unlike Mr Wilson who has created Reedism - which Mr Wilson calls his Islam.

regards
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allahs forgetfulness
written by leigh , September 30, 2010
moktor has a ggod point- allah tells Muslims to follow Mohammad's example but then fails to give details of that example to enable them to do so- well apart from ambushing and killing the infidels and praying 3 times a day (or is it 5?) yes allah forgot to put the details of all the 5 pillars of Islam in the quran- they are in the hadith though...!
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WHEN CAN I BE A PROPHET TO ENJOY THE BABES ?
written by ALLAHS ETERNAL ERECTION , September 30, 2010
when i can and how can i be a prophet to enjoy babes ?
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Reed
written by duh_swami , September 30, 2010
I get involved in 'such' controversies willy nilly. What I am interested most is word of God. What God says, what God expects us to do.

That makes you dangerous...In Quran what Allah want's you to do is clear and bloody...

Aleister Crowley said about God, 'Sit down, sit still, and shut up'...

This is because according to some, 'God' Is in the space between your thoughts...If you want to 'hear' him you have to do those three things...Sit down, sit still and shut up...Shut up means to turn off your internal dialog, that is, talking to yourself in the your head... and just listen...When you shut up, God will speak...This is a form of meditation, known to advanced spiritual disciplines...
Have you ever noticed that the little voice in your head hardly ever tells you anything new or profound? When that does happen, it is usually called a revelation, or an epiphany, sometimes expressed by the word 'Eureka' Which means 'I have found it'...These are not rare, but also not common...Most of the time, your little voice only tells you what you already know...So if you stop listening to it, by forcing it into silence...If God really is in those spaces, you will soon find it out...
0
...
written by vbv , September 30, 2010
Most of the practices of muslims come from the b'Hadiths'. And thiese 'Hadiths' are just hearsay of what this Muhamad had said on what occasion to which person ,etc. and this reportage is after 200 nyears of this madcap ,self-appointed 'prophet' and a gigantic fraud and conman had died. This was written by a zealot from central Asia ,which is given such a lot of importance.The 'Hadiths' were not dictated by this fraud Muhamad on a dictaphone or recorded on a disc. to make it a compelling and upright evidence. It is all a part of the grand taqiyya upon which this whole edifice of a fraudulent cult is built. No wonder it has zero tolerance on any one who dares questions it and threatens to liquidate anyone who even raises his discordant voice against this fraud called islam.
The other frauds are easily caught because they live in todays secular world ,whereas Muhamad lived in the dark age in the seventh century when people did not have the advantage of modern science,tyechnology and knowledge to think rationally and intelligently, and are easily prone to be led astray by any clever scheming charlatan ,such that that this barbaric ,self-proclaimed prophet Muhamad was. This man waqs far more dangerous than the other psychopaths mentioned in this article that his legacy has survived over 1,400 years with 1.5 billion adherents and zealots who would even today murder anyone who dares to question this ancient frauds bonafides.
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Chronology.
written by Reed Wilson , September 30, 2010
Thank you MNaeemi. You say Islam does not exist without hadis and Christians say Christianity does not exist without Cross. I don’t know what do Jews and Hindus say. All the religions owe their existance to clutches. May be!

You are saying “Quranic ayas have neither chronology nor context, and to understand the chronology and context you need hadiths and sira”. I just want to learn. Tell me how. Give examples.

Please also tell me what the use of Quran is? What God says about Quran?

You mention 9:111 to support killing hadis rejecters, which has no context and chronology. What do hadith and sira say about it? Were there hadis rejecters during the life time of Muhammad?

Do we have chronology and context in hadis and sira and how they are very important? What is chronology?

I hope you are not touchy about questions. How would I learn if I don’t ask questions?

Kindly tell me the total number of hadiths and their availability.
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Quran and Hadiths are all fake and false documents because they all based their premise on falshood
written by Clement The Islam-Watch Pastor , September 30, 2010

Can somebody prove to us here in Islam-watch that the Quran or the Hadiths are true. How relevant is the message of hate and lust in the quran to the modern man today. Compare this to the eternal word of God in the Bible which is the eternal word of the God of this universe which is ever applicable in every generation, race or nation and remain new every new day. It can can only take the brain dead moron of Islam to think that the Quran is true and refused to come and enjoy new life and new hope Jesus
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To Wilson
written by Mokhtar Naeemi , September 30, 2010
Wilson Why are you dodging my question by asking me questions. I repeat, If hadiths are bogus then prove that quran is not bogus too and that Allah personally dictated it.
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Apostates, Muslims and Quran only types
written by Vijay , September 30, 2010
It seems muslim apostates believe hadiths to be factual but think quran is bogus. Quran only types believe in quran but think hadiths are bogus . Muslims believe both to be authentic . Logic says, since hadiths is history based it must have truth in it but Quran being rants of a fake prophet is is all bogus. .
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Nowhere.
written by Reed Wilson , September 30, 2010
Moktar Naeemi. Kindly tell me the total number of hadiths and their availability.

You say "Wilson Why are you dodging my question by asking me questions. I repeat, If hadiths are bogus then prove that quran is not bogus too and that Allah personally dictated it".

Where did you ask the above? Appeared for the first time. It is not a question either.I will take it up after you answer my questions.

Did you answer Mulhid , September 29, 2010?
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...
written by vbv , September 30, 2010
Hadiths are bogus,indeed,so also the Quran. Just imagine this Allah dictating verses which are tied to the times of Muhamad and to the distorted versions of the biblical tales. Did Muhamad see Allah dictating the quran? No. He only heard it from an 'angel' called jibrael. Hahahahahaha! How stupid ! There are no timeless philosophies of great profundity in the quran ,except what Muhamad to garner from the bible in a distorted manner. This Allah was insular frog in the well - that he was ignorant of this beautiful planet except the midlle-east. This Allah was ignorant of major parts of Asia which had great civilisations for thousands of years before Muhamad,or Europe which had many great civilisation or cultures ,or for that matter the American continents,Australia,New Zealand,etc.The whole Old Testament is a muck of the jews living in the middle-east and quran is a poor copy of the same making impossible claims for itself,such as it being the final word of this Allah and Muhamad being the final 'prophet' or the seal of 'prophethood'. Bah! What loud stinking,filthy bulshits these semetyic cults are!!!????
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...
written by vbv , September 30, 2010
And yet these cults' gods: Yahweh/Allah make impossible claims about creating this world,having a very poor knowledge about the geopgraphy and history of this planet that they supposedly created! The whole thing is a fraud, and humans living today should consign all these bullshits to the garbage where they really deserve to be.
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...
written by vbv , September 30, 2010
Talking of creation, they have this Adam and Eve bullshit story which is so stupid,illogical and unfit for any sane human being. Imagine Adam and Eve had two sons and no daughters- which show their god to be misogynistic.Cain murders Abel in a fit of jealousy. Cain marries some female from some 'tribe' ,as per the Bible, which means people existed before this 'god' creatwed the supposedly first humans Adam and Eve. Hahahahahahaha! Biblical writers had no brains,for sure, or they have just evolved from the primates that shows their shallow thinking.And this quran just adapts this bullshit in the 7th century when humans in other parts of the world were highly evolved and had progressed in the field of knowledge and science. What surprises me more is that we have billions of zombies even today subscribing to all these bullshits ,notwithstanding having a much more evolved brains than the 4th century BCE writers or the 7th century AD conman!
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J.K
written by Reed Wilson , October 01, 2010
To J.K You write "..but believe in quran which is a fiction authored by a schytzrophrenic ,epilleptic , lieing sex maniac".

You owe to hadis for all that!!
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Ignorance.
written by Reed Wilson , October 01, 2010

To leigh. It is not allahs forgetfulness, but is ignorance of Muslims. In the same surah or chapter allah where Allah says you should have followed the example of messenger, Allah has elaborated the example.

They have invented the role model concept. The example does not suit them.


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when can i get my virgins ?
written by ALLAHS ETERNAL ERECTION SEX ROBOT , October 01, 2010


when can i get my 72 virgins ? i live in india willing to do suicide bombing.just show me some proof
that imaginary allah created 72 virgins in imaginary jannat....pls pls pls some muslim show me the
hot pics.
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To Reed Wilson
written by lw1 , October 01, 2010
You are asking Moktar (Mokhtar) Naeemi whether he gave an answer to Mulhid, September,2010.
In the article 'Embodiment of Altruism: ...'of 22 September 2010, you have not responded to your statement on 24 September 2010 referring to violence by Muslims(most of whom you disqualify as Muslims) --'They are not doing bad to anybody other than themselves.' That statement is not true. You had misled by giving only a partial answer.
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God save Reedwilson.
written by Reed Wilson , October 01, 2010
To lw1. I sincerely dont get what you are asking. If you kindly rephrase your question. I will try to answer and will answer if I can.

Sometimes, like most of the friends here, I am unable to answer a question or if they are many, I answer as many as I can.

The answer of Naeemi to Mulhid had bearing on my answer. Hence a reminder.

Once it happend that I answered a question and it didnt come up. The administrator detained. The questioner pressured me so much. I rephrased my post. No luck.

Sometimes answering claims my other things to do. I dont grudge that sacrifice.


0
...
written by duh_swami , October 01, 2010
Once it happend that I answered a question and it didnt come up. The administrator detained. The questioner pressured me so much. I rephrased my post. No luck.

The administrator ate my post...The dog ate my homework...When the goat ate half the Quran, that did not stop Uthman from re-writing it...
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To Reed Wilson
written by Mokhtar Naeemi , October 01, 2010
Yes I did ask that qurastion, I am pasting it "If you deny hadiths and siras as authentic deeds and words of Prophet then how can you say quran is authentic words of Allah"? Is it not same as" If hadiths are bogus then prove that quran is not bogus too and that Allah personally dictated it".

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To Reed
written by J.K , October 01, 2010
You say hadiths created Mohammad ; werent quran and Allah also created by hadiths too because Hadiths are sahaba's statements or writings about what Mohammed said and did. Unless you are a prophet to whom Allah told that hadiths are bogus and quran is authentic. OK let me rephrase my statement " but you believe in quran which is a fiction " Will that work for you. I know you are not a muslim but are in it to pull legs.
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...
written by Reed Wilson , October 01, 2010
To J. K.

"because Hadiths are sahaba's statements or writings about what Mohammed said and did".

They are NOTsahaba's statements or writings about what Mohammed said and did. You will not find any convincing proof for this even on this site. Otherwise I will not hesitate accepting them. I am here for more than an year.

Top ranking scholars talk like MNaeemi. I sincerely searched for a proof. In begining I was believing them. I divorced after due investigation.

There is so much absurdity and vulgarity in hadis that one can only blindly accept them. A friend hereequated hadis with Kok Shastar, an Indian porn novel, yesterday.

The so called scholars of Islam owe their existance to hadis. They are exploiting the Muslims who dont read Quran nor hadis.

No scholar could tell the total number of hadises, leaving alone their authenticity.



0
...
written by duh_swami , October 01, 2010
Reed...What is the 'black rock'? Where in the Quran does it talk about the Kaaba's 'black rock', and the necessity of kissing it?
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To Reed
written by J.K , October 01, 2010
What convincing proof you are looking for. What convincing proof have you for any history book written 1300 years back? Most of hadiths match what is in quran is convincing enough for me. Aya 33.50 says Mo can f-ck acptured women, many hadiths say he f-cked many captured women. Aya 33.26-27 and many other ayas say he killed , many hadiths confirm he killed , aya 8.1, 8.41 say he is allowed to rob, hadiths confirm that he raided and robbed. Forget about hadiths, what convincing proof you have that Allah personally wrote quran and sent with Jibraeel to Mo? Why are you not condemning quran, why are you after hadiths. If hadiths stories are even 1% truth, it still is infinite times better than quran stories which are all fairy tales and bullshit.
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Reed
written by duh_swami , October 02, 2010
The so called scholars of Islam owe their existance to hadis. They are exploiting the Muslims who dont read Quran nor hadis.

Exploiting usually mean profits...How do Muslim scholars exploit, what is the motivation? Did Bukhari get a huge paycheck from this 'exploitation'?
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...
written by thatswrong , October 02, 2010
muhamad is a very sick person, also have a hobby for genocide. how idiot who call this sick man is a prophet..
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Reed
written by duh_swami , October 02, 2010
Here's something you can investigate...Who was supporting Bukhari during the years he was compiling Ahadith? He must have lived somewhere and had to eat...Who do you think was paying his way?
If you can follow the money you might find out who was behind these fake hadith...
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Black stone.
written by Reed Wilson , October 02, 2010
To duh_swami You are asking:

Reed...What is the 'black rock'? Where in the Quran does it talk about the Kaaba's 'black rock', and the necessity of kissing it?

How do I know? You consider me qualified to answer extra Quranic matters.

According to Quran, no reverence to anything other than God. Abraham did not respect idols.

You once quoted Umars alleged funny reply. "Since I have seen Muhammad kissing, I am kissing". In other words I am doing shirk because Muhammad was doing shirk.

Duh, I am ignorant of so many things including such matters.


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No'captured women' in Aya 33.50.
written by Reed Wilson , October 02, 2010
To JK.

No 'captured women' in Aya 33.50.

"If hadiths stories are even 1% truth..... Hadith stories are 100% false. Believing even 1% is shirk.

If hadis say that one atom of Oxygen and two of Hydrogen make water, even then it is false. Because it starts with 'Muhammad said' which is not truth.
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Perks.
written by Reed Wilson , October 02, 2010
To duh-swami,

"Exploiting usually mean profits...How do Muslim scholars exploit, what is the motivation? Did Bukhari get a huge paycheck from this 'exploitation'?

There are so many indirect ways of profits or return. The respect, the recognition the protocol etc is hell of profit.





0
...
written by Reed Wilson , October 02, 2010
written by duh_swami.
"Here's something you can investigate...Who was supporting Bukhari during the years he was compiling Ahadith? He must have lived somewhere and had to eat...Who do you think was paying his way?

"If you can follow the money you might find out who was behind these fake hadith..."


Modern methods of investigation fail. Even Scotland Yard will excuse. I tried. I find everything 'miraculous'.
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...
written by duh_swami , October 02, 2010
There are so many indirect ways of profits or return. The respect, the recognition the protocol etc is hell of profit.

All he wanted was a little respect...Well, I guess he got that from everyone but you...You have to admire a man who will spend years of hard research, who is just looking for a little respect...
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2 Reed
written by Machmoed , October 02, 2010
You Wrote: Abraham did not respect idols.

Isn't Baal a false god? According to evidence (5000 years old) found in Ebla in Seria Avraham was a Baal worshipper. This is more reliable because it's from that time. The bible is written much much much later. What do you do wich such facts?
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...
written by a.tayyab , October 02, 2010
Good article.
The very concept of some angel bringing messages is not in the bible; no one from moses to jesus said that what they are saying(e.g.today) is brought by some angel and what they said (e.g.yesterday) they made that up all by themselves so call one quran and other hadith.
Islam is a product of ignorance because mohammad was illiterate and had no first hand knowledge of bible and teachings of moses and jesus.
The stories in quran are more like fairy tales that are pleasing to the ignorant of the past and present and then there is the threat of sword i.e. if you do not believe what the allah has said you deserve to die; worked well then works well now and that is the mystery of more than a billion muslims following islam.
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To Reed Wilson
written by lw1 , October 02, 2010
'They (Muslims) are voilent (violent) if you contradict. They are not doing bad to anybody other than themselves.' So when the people who consider themselves as Muslims (most of whom you disqualify as Muslims) commit acts of violence resulting in injuries and death, you believe -'They are not doing bad to anybody other than themselves.' People other than these Muslims have suffered through these violence,so how can you say that'They (Muslims) are not doing bad to anybody other than themselves.'
(This refers to an article published on 22/09/2010 -- Embodiment of Altruism...)
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to u all
written by muslim , October 02, 2010

A Must Read.......

http://www.scribd.com/doc/12834770/Ali-Sina-Exposed-Completly
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The Great Lie - Muhammed
written by The Infidel Alliance , October 02, 2010
As Goebbels infamously proclaimed “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

The great lie that Muhammed was some kind of holy man, a moral role model with a direct connection to God is the biggest fraud ever perpetrated upon humanity. It is a massive lie that is propagated by Islam’s power to repress inquiry, dissent and the truth by fear, intimidation and violence.

But the truth about Muhammed cannot be suppressed, because the truth can be found in the Islamic ‘holy’ texts, the Koran, Ahadith and Surah Rasul Allah, recorded in black and white for the whole world to discover.

The Koran 68:4 upholds Muhammed as “…an exalted [standard of] character.” Islamic tradition upholds Muhammed as ‘al-insan al-kamil’ or ‘the perfect man’, to be emulated by all Muslims.

But the hard truth about Muhammed, as recorded in the Islamic ‘holy’ texts, is that far from being a a ‘holy prophet’ Muhammed was a sadistic sociopath, a 7th century Arabian Hitler – only worse, a successful Charles Manson, only creepier and more evil.

Muhammed was a murderer, torturer, amputator, decapitator, mutilator, slaver, looting stealing thief, rapist, human trafficker, sex trafficker, kidnapper, child rapist, sexual deviant, misogynist, perfidious liar, genocidist and self proclaimed terrorist.

By any objective standard, Muhammed was one of the most vile and disgusting men in the pantheon of human history, a brutal barbarian, a self important narcissistic consumed by unquenchable sexual lust, greed and power.

Muhammed should have been incarcerated not venerated, and he should be reviled not revered.

Every pathology that afflicts Islam comes directly from this sick man, Muhammed, and the world suffers because of him.

This is the man who inspires Muslims??

~The Infidel Alliance
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Inspired by Muhammed???
written by The Infidel Alliance , October 02, 2010
Bukhari (52:220) – Allah’s Apostle Muhammed said… ‘I have been made victorious with terror’

Of consequence, Osama bin Laden's full name is Osama bin MOHAMMED bin Awad bin Laden.

These men are also named after the 'holy prophet' of Islam:

1) MOHAMMED Atta, 9/11 airline jihadist
2) Abdulhakim Mujahid MUHAMMED, Little Rock recruiting center assasin
3) MOHAMMED Reza Taheri-azar, UNC SUV jihadist
4) MOHAMMED Ajmal Amir Kasab, Mumbai jihadist
5) Husayn MUHAMMED al-Umari, Pan Am Flight 830 bomber
6) Fahd MOHAMMED Ahmed al-Quso, USS Cole bomber
7) Khalid Sheikh MOHAMMED, beheader of Daniel Pearl
smilies/cool.gif MOHAMMED Sidique Khan, London Tube suicide jihadist
9) Ramzi MOHAMMED, convicted London Tube jihadist
10) Whabi MOHAMMED, London Tube ‘5th’ bomber
11) Fazul Abdullah MOHAMMED, Tanzanian embassy bomber
12) MAHMOUD Ahmadinejad, despotic Shia leader of Islamic Republic of Iran
13) MOHAMMED Bouyeri, savage Islamist killer of Theo Van Gogh
14) MOHAMMED Ali Hamadei, airline hijacker
15) MOHAMMED Safady, Munich Olympics terrorist
16) AHMAD Marrouf al-Assadi, Achille Lauro hijacker
17) MEHMET Ali Ağca, Islamist who attempted to assasinate Pope John Paul
1smilies/cool.gif MOHAMMED Atif Siddique, Scottish terrorist conspiritor
19) Kafeel AHMED, Glasgow Airport bomber
20) Abdulla AHMED, ‘Liquid’ bomber
21) John Allen MUHAMMED, mass murdering sniper
23) MOHAMMED Haydar Zammar, al-Qaeda recruiter who assembled the Hamburg cell
24) Jaish-e-MOHAMMED, Pakistani jihadist terror organization
25 & 26) Abdirahman Mohamud Ahmed, 25, and Wissam Mahmoud Fattal, 33, NSW Australia jihadists

Mohammed…..Muhammed….Mahmoud….Mehmet….Ahmed…..and on, and on, and on….

Terrorists named Muhammed, all inspired by the original Islamic terrorist named Muhammed.

Is there any wonder why there is so much violence in Islam??

~The Infidel Alliance
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Doing bad to themselves.
written by Reed Wilson , October 02, 2010
To IW1.
Yes, if the muslims are involved in acts of violence which is forbidden by God, they are doing bad to themselves. By saying they are doing bad to themselves, as God says, I mean that they will be punished in the life here after. That is the real loss.
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The Great Lie
written by Reed Wilson , October 03, 2010

To The Infidel Alliance.
Muhammad claimed he was messenger of God according to Quran.Now Muhammad is no more for centuries. The message through him is accessible.

The right thing would be to discuss the message if not following the message.

The 'rosaary' of "murderer, torturer, amputator, decapitator, mutilator, slaver, looting stealing thief, rapist, human trafficker, sex trafficker, kidnapper, child rapist, sexual deviant, misogynist, perfidious liar, genocidist and self proclaimed terrorist' is not going to do any bad to Muhammad nor good to the admirer.

What is genocidist?
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...
written by jjk999 , October 03, 2010
A very good essay.
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To Reed
written by J.K , October 03, 2010
Reed, Hadiths are supported by quran. I gave you examples. Quran says Mo was a robber killer ,rapist pedophile and anadulterer, hadiths just expand on it. Not that Allah dictated it, Mohammed wrote it to get Allah's stamp of approval. You wrote 33.50 does not have xaptured women?, That proves that eithere you are in denial or you are in it just to have jollies.
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To Reed
written by Mokhtar Naeemi , October 03, 2010
You have not come up with the proof that Allah personally dictated quran?
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To Reed
written by John , October 03, 2010
You are right violence is prohibited by real God, Jesus, not islamic God Allah,that is why muslims are involved in violence.Wilson go read quran
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...
written by Expat , October 03, 2010
I don't think it is a coincidence that in all the countries where Islam is the main religion, the mean I.Q. of the population is only 85. Only stupid people would buy into this cult.
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...
written by Reed Wilson , October 03, 2010
To a tyyab. You write "...i.e. if you do not believe what the allah has said you deserve to die; worked well then works well now and that is the mystery of more than a billion muslims following islam".

Will it work for you? How it worked for your forefathers?

From where you got it?
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...
written by Reed Wilson , October 03, 2010
To Mokhtar Naeemi.

"You have not come up with the proof that Allah personally dictated quran?"

Did I ever say what you are asking me to prove?

Isnt it too much that you make a claim and ask me to prove?

Mukhtar Naeemi, you remind me a friend Shibli Zaman. He is mayabang like you. Are you by any chance Shibli Zaman?

What kind of proof is acceptable to you?

God tells in Quran how it was revealed.

Will you answer my questions I put before you earlier?
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Real God.
written by Reed Wilson , October 03, 2010
To John. Please tell me what do you mean by "You are right violence is prohibited by real God, Jesus, not islamic God Allah,that is why muslims are involved in violence".

I know Jesus Chist well. He never said that he was 'real God'. Are you not blaspheming?

Do you mean Quran does not discourage violence?

What is your definition of violence?





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Poor IQ.
written by Reed Wilson , October 03, 2010
To Expat. May be that in countries where Islam is main religion, the IQ is very low. You being polite in saying "I don't think it is a coincidence".

You seem research minded. please also investigate what is the percentage of Quran-conscious or Quran-aware among them.

My estimation is that the percentage is not even one. I include Arabic speaking muslims among them.



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...
written by Christian , October 03, 2010
Muslims, when are you going to wake up? This is a devil religin. Muhammad himself admitted that he was possessed by Satan. Muhammad admitted that he had a Jinn (demon) up his nose. (Al-Hadis. Volume 4, Book 54, No.516), Muhammed said that bad dreams are from Satan. (Al-Hadis. Volume 4, Book 54, No. 513). Muhammad had his own resident demon, the one-eyed Dajjal. (Al-Hadis. Volume 3, page 803). HOW MUCH PROOF DO YOU WANT?
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Modern scholars.
written by Reed Wilson , October 03, 2010
To Mr. Christian.

Are you really a Christian?

We all need waking up.

Great Bueena writes.“According to modern scholars, most characters from Adam to Noah, Abraham and Moses (and perhaps even Jesus and Mohammed) are only fiction".

Modern Christians have accepted the research.

Quran is the evidence of Jesus, his divinity and miracles.

You have to counter the modern scholars.







Muslims, when are you going to wake up? This is a devil religin. Muhammad himself admitted that he was possessed by Satan. Muhammad admitted that he had a Jinn (demon) up his nose. (Al-Hadis. Volume 4, Book 54, No.516), Muhammed said that bad dreams are from Satan. (Al-Hadis. Volume 4, Book 54, No. 513). Muhammad had his own resident demon, the one-eyed Dajjal. (Al-Hadis. Volume 3, page 803). HOW MUCH PROOF DO YOU WANT?
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Pls ignore.
written by Reed Wilson , October 03, 2010
I forgot deleting the bottom lines. Pls ignore.
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Mohammed SPLIT THE MOON IN TWO?
written by TimTang , October 03, 2010
That has got to be the most ridiculous BULL$H1T claim ever made. If this had really happened EVERY civilization in the world existing at that time would have recorded this spectacular incident, yet NOTHING exists to prove it happened. Don't you think the people living in Rome at that time would have been a little bit curious that the moon had just spit in two?

Even if this utterly ridiculous event did happen, WHY? What idiot possessing the power required to do such a thing would choose to spit the moon in two? What purpose does it serve. Why didn't he just use that power to obliterate his enemies?

Anyone that is STUPID enough to believe this bull$hit should have no trouble believing all the other CRAP in the quaran and hadiths. Yes Abdul mohammed can speak to ant's as well!smilies/grin.gif
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The Ants SPEAK!!!
written by TimTang , October 03, 2010
The Ants have told me that they are being over worked so they are going to form a union to demand higher waged, fewer hours, and more vacation days. Stay tuned for more Ant NEWS from your favorite anchor man Mohammed
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Alla is ANGRY!
written by TimTang , October 04, 2010
It has come to our attention that many muslims have been using an EVEN number of stones to wipe their a$$ after taking a $hit. This blasphemous behavior must be halted immediately. You have been clearly instructed to use an ODD number of stones to wipe your a$$. Demons will $hit in the ears of anyone that fails to comply.
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Mohammed SPLIT THE MOON IN TWO
written by Reed Wilson , October 04, 2010
To TimTang ,

Please ignore the alleged miracles. Read "Muhammad Had No Miracles: by Mumin Saleh and my post.
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The Ants SPEAK!!!
written by Reed Wilson , October 04, 2010

To TimTang. Your posts The "Ants SPEAK!!!" and "Allah is ANGRY!" are interesting.

Regarding speaking and understanding of ants and other animals, the scientists are yet to give a verdict. There are however many findings about intellgence of animals.
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Yet to give a verdict?
written by TimTang , October 04, 2010
I don't need a scientist to understand that a single vocal chord is larger than an entire colony of ants. Even if an ant could think on the level of a human there is no way they could voice those thoughts. But if you want to wait for these so called expert scientists for the verdict, knock yourself out. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for an article in the Scientific American extolling the wonders of the talking ants. I'm still waiting for geologists to find the skeletons of the supposed Giant People the mohammed spoke about.
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Reed Wilson
written by a.tayyab , October 04, 2010
My ancestors are not with me but for you to know for sure; you tell me where you live and when I come, you try the threat and see if it will work for me or not?
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A converts conversation with Mohammed.
written by TimTang , October 04, 2010
Mo: I am the prophet of Alla, the greatest God.

Con: How many Gods are there?

Mo: Just the one.

Con: How can Alla be the greatest if there are no other gods to be greater than?

Mo: Don't be a smart ass or I'll chop your head off.

Con: How can you prove that you are the prophet.

Mo: It says so in the book I haven't written yet, plus I have a mole on my back.

Con: Why haven't you written your book yet?

Mo: I'm illiterate; I can't read or write.

Con: I'm convinced, How do I join?

0
?
written by Reed Wilson , October 04, 2010
To a.tayyab. I dont know why did you write:

"My ancestors are not with me but for you to know for sure; you tell me where you live and when I come, you try the threat and see if it will work for me or not?"

I mean our forefathers cannot change faith under coersion.
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...
written by J.K , October 04, 2010
Muslims like Reed Wilson, deny hadiths because they can be understood clearly and they are too embarassed by what Mo did. They stick to quran because they can hide behind the mumbo jumbo .
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To Reed Wilson
written by Mokhtar Naeemi , October 04, 2010
You remind me of a friend who wrote under the name Akhtar . Are you Akhtar taking the role of hadis denying apostate Reed Wilson?
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Reed Wilson aka christian
written by Mokhtar Naeemi , October 04, 2010
Reed Wilson , the fake muslim wrote as "christian" and replied as Reed Wilson, just forgot to delete what he had written in the earlier post.
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Reed Wilson`
written by a.tayyab , October 04, 2010
If you read your post you clearly asked: Will it work for you?How it worked for your forefathers?
My ancestors/forefathers are not with me so I cannot tell you how it worked for them but you can find out if it will work for me or not?
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Plans, plans, and a few plots...
written by duh_swami , October 04, 2010
Mohammad's only miracle was that he had a plan and it worked...
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Does allah get an erection????
written by proudest kafir , October 04, 2010
Allah has all the emotions.Like he gets very very angry, he absolutely hates, he loves when only he is prayed.He brings forth ayaths in a hurry, makes mistakes and sends in fresh verses to coorect the previous bad ones.He can be misled by the satan to do things otherwise and corrects him self. Since all these are manly ir human qualities, does allah get an erection, when he is keenly observing women? I know allah is gay, but no where in qrand there is a mention of giant,eternal erection of allah.
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Allah replies to proudest kafir and like.
written by Reed Wilson , October 04, 2010

To proudest kafir. You are asking " Does allah get an erection????

Allah replies in Quran:

LIMITLESS in His glory is thy Sustainer, the Lord of almightiness, exalted]above anything that men may devise by way of definition! And peace be upon all His message-bearers! And all praise is due to God alone, the Sustainer of all the worlds! (37:180-82)
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New miracle!!
written by Reed Wilson , October 04, 2010
duh-swami. See you have given new miracle. Didnt I tell?

Mohammad's only miracle was that he had a plan and it worked...
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Alla's not very bright either!!!
written by TimTang , October 04, 2010
Alla chose an illiterate to write the holy qaran in the holy language arabic. Mohammed didn't even bother learning to read and write this supposedly holy language, yet he had a good enough memory to remember verbatim every word Gabriel recited to him.

Alla created the entire universe and everything in it but he didn't have the power make mohammed literate. Why couldn't he just go "Allakazm! you now know how to read and write arabic"? It would appear that alla had an IQ in the double digits and even a monkey with a typewriter could produce a book less harmful to humanity than the qaran. This supposed miracle of literature is almost painfully boring to read with the constant repetition and no discernible story of plot, it's hard to believe an intelligent person wrote it much less a god.
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Islam is reverse Dawinism
written by TimTang , October 04, 2010
For 1400 years Islam has been successfully creating stupid societies. Apart from the obvious problem of inbreeding and children growing up with multiple mothers that are considered about as important as livestock there is another serious problem.

The people most likely to question the authenticity of Islam, the qaran and all the other bull$hit that comes with it, are the most intelligent ones. These are the ones that say "wait a minute this doesn't make sense, there are parts of this religion that simply defy logic, common sense, and basic human understanding." These people are considered dangerous and are quickly killed for blasphemy before they can share their thoughts with other inquisitive minds. This creates a form of reverse Darwinism or "Survival of the most stupid". They have been killing the smartest people in their society for 1400 years and now they're left with stupid people reproducing to create more stupid people. The last thing the religious leaders want in Islamic societies is smart people with inquisitive minds that can actually reason for themselves and see Islam for the idiotic farce it really is. They even prefer people remain illiterate because the qaran is so stupid that they would rather they didn't read it. They even force people that don't know arabic to read and memorize it in arabic so they won't ever really know what it even says. They even proclaim that all other books are meaningless because everything you ever need to know in you life time is in the holy qaran.

Is it any wonder that Islamic societies are generally non-productive (unless they're sitting on billions of barrels of oil), and the only way they can progress is to invade smarter more productive societies by raping, pillaging and stealing their wealth. Then that invaded society also becomes stupid and non-productive. Look at Iran; it had a glorious history and was a highly advanced society then islam came along and turned it into another Islamic $hit-hole run by religious idiots that have nothing better to do than blow things up and basically disturb and terrorize the civilized world while they wait and pray for the coming of the 12 imam. If they had their way they would blow the whole world up including themselves just to please alla. It would almost be funny if it weren't so f@cking tragic.
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I am not..
written by Reed Wilson , October 04, 2010
To Naeemi.

I remember one RMAkhtar who contributed one or two posts. He replied to Machmoed. He didnt show up after that.
Hadis denying!! I am rather hadis-hating.

I didnt write as 'christian'.

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2 Reed
written by Machmoed , October 04, 2010
You wrote: Quran is the evidence of Jesus, his divinity and miracles.

Actually this is a reason why quran is not the word of allah or from him. Since the majority of Christian scrolls/writings is about Jesus as a spiritual being and not a human of flesh and blood, I think this shows the ignorance of people from that time. Those miracles are the first thing scholars and scientists threw away as truth. Fact: moses and the jews never were in Egypt…no slaves whatsoever. Is the bible lying? Yep! Did the exodus happen? No, never!

This should be enough to conclude that Quran repeated those lies. In those days they really believed it was true, otherwise the arabs never would mention it in the Quran. Reed, what is it you don’t understand of these facts. Moses is fiction, like Minos is fiction and like Manou is fiction. These characters seem all to have received some devine tablets with laws on it. Don’t believe those fairytales Reed…it’s a lie.
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2 Timtang
written by Machmoed , October 04, 2010
Don’t worry Timtang, the moon never had been split up…this is one of the lies many muslims know it is a lie.
About Ants: Ants communicate with odour/smell, not by speaking. Even if they did, the miracle wouldn’t be understanding the ants but hearing the ants. Maybe Solomo (Sulaymaan) was a kind of God with supersonic hearing but not human. If he wasn’t human, discard him for the fact we cannot be like him whatsoever.
History: before Muhammad ever was born, the arabs had an agreement between them. Allah is the greatest God while at first he was just a clan god. Aftyer the agreement they called Him Allahu akbar (Allah is the greatest). Many muslims lie when they say it means Allah is great. Akbar means the greatest/biggest. Kabeer means great/big.
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Give it up Machmoed
written by TimTang , October 04, 2010
Anyone that has read the qaran and believes it to be the devine word of god is so brain washed that they are beyond hope of ever seeing the truth and no amount of logic, knowledge, or reasoning will ever change their mind.

I read about half of the qaran and it was so stupid and hate filled that I still consider it a waste of time and I couldn't even be bothered to finish it, yet these people some how find divine inspiration. Alla seems to be more stupid and cruel than most human beings yet they consider him to be infinitely wise and most merciful. The images of hell are so ridiculous it's like a bad comedy. Imagine a god, alla for example, who has nothing better to do than create infidels that are destined to spend eternity with their skin being burnt off only to have it replaced with another layer of skin to be burned off again and again for eternity and just to spice it up a bit occasionally pore hot scolding oil down their throat. And THAT'S what they call a most merciful god! What a f@cking joke!!! You'd think that a god that created the universe and everything in it would have better things to do and he wouldn't be so insecure that he needed to be prayed to 5 times a day by all his followers just to keep his ego afloat.
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No Idol worship in Islam?
written by TimTang , October 04, 2010
You've 1.5 billion muslim praying 5 times a day to a dilapidated stone shack in the middle of the desert with a chunk of a meteorite set in the corner supposedly built by angels. It's such an embarrassing work of architecture that they cover it with an embroidered black sheet to hide the pathetic construction. There's no electricity, lighting, plumbing, nothing. What holy entity does this shack possess? Why do 1.5 million muslims pray to IT? Where is Alla? Does he live there? I thought alla existed everywhere. Is this not a perfect example of Idol worship; they might just as well be praying to a golden cow. This is just another stupid Islamic ritual that makes absolutely no sense.

If mohammed were alive today he'd be so blown away by a typical modern household he'd probably have 1.5 million praying to his condo in LA. Yet we are supposed to believe there is no idol worship in Islam. Yah Riiiiiiiight!
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To
written by Mokhtar Naeemi , October 04, 2010
I am not Shibli Zaman. I am a muslim who truly believes that denying hadiths is denying quran. They both are interdependant, to understand quran you need hadiths and to authenticate hadiths you need quran. You may deny all you want but over a billion muslims and all non muslims who have studied islam believe that.
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Reed Wilson is like a child.
written by V J , October 04, 2010
Reed Wilson is like a child. Children are not interested in real stories , they just like to read story books with tales of fairies ,dragons and monsters. Wilson also is not interested in real stories ( siras and hadiths), he just likes to read a book with stories of houries , Jins and satans.
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To Reed Wilson
written by lw1 , October 04, 2010
'...By saying they are doing bad to themselves,as God says, I mean that they will be punished in the life here after. That is a real loss.'
You are still ignoring the REAL loss through injury, death and other trauma suffered by 'Muslim' violence. Whether the 'Muslims' will be punished in the life here after, nobody knows as there is no proof, but the victims of 'Muslim' violence suffer REAL loss , which you want to ignore.
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Thanks to Mokhtar
written by Editor, M. A. Khan , October 04, 2010
For your utmost honesty and clarity of thoughts.

With sheepish Muslims like Reed, Muslims have to forgo all rituals: saying prayers, fasting, performing hajj and all.

They will destroy Islam with cunningness. We want to do the same, but, with honesty and clarity of thought and conscience.
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I thought the cunningness
written by proudest kafir , October 05, 2010
of moslems like reed was for concealing the evil of islam from the kafir's scrutiny, till the moslim population attains a certain level in the infidel country, by way of unbridled procreation of these pigs and immigration of the same from moslem pits. After that threshold is reached, the cunning moslems start the rioting and killing,raping spree to make the infidels in to submission to that pimp allah and rapist rasool. May be Iam wrong in my assessment, but the cunningness of the moslems like reed and the stupidly straight forward idiotic moslems together plan the same.Lull the infidels in to ignorance about the evil islam and then spread the stinlk of allah!
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Violence.
written by Reed Wilson , October 05, 2010
To IW1.
You are still ignoring the REAL loss through injury, death and other trauma suffered by 'Muslim' violence. Whether the 'Muslims' will be punished in the life here after, nobody knows as there is no proof, but the victims of 'Muslim' violence suffer REAL loss , which you want to ignore.

This is allegation IW1. I condemn violence of all manifestation. Everbody knows here. Quran says:
If you take retribution, then do so equal to the wrong done to you. But if you can bear such conduct with patience, indeed that is best for the steadfast. (16:126)

Therefore, I condemn violence with all vehemence at my disposal.
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...
written by duh_swami , October 05, 2010
The Quran advocates and supports violence with numerous aya's, but Reed says there are none, only peace, ice cream and cake aya's...Anyone who reads Quran can tell Reed is lying...He personally may condemn violence but his book says differently...
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David Koresh
written by Reed Wilson , October 05, 2010
David Koresh was not proved guilty by any court of law. He belonged to Seventhday Adventist Church.

Ayesha Ahmad has contributed an article after very long time. May be after one year. Her previous articles were of good standard.
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To Reed Wilson -- Violence
written by lw1 , October 05, 2010
You say 'this is allegation.' There are more than one point I am making. Which point exactly is the allegation?
0
...
written by duh_swami , October 05, 2010
He belonged to Seventhday Adventist Church.

Koresh was a "branch Dividian', an offshoot of Davidians, who were an offshoot of SAC...The SAC did not claim him...But you are right that he was never charged of convicted of anything...The US government essentially murdered him and his followers that were in their 'Church' after torturing them for 51 days...Including a number of children...The US government gave itself a whitewash job, and blamed the whole incident on the dead guy Koresh...Dead men tell no tales so it's convenient to blame them...
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Reed Wilson is more deadly than terrorists
written by Ravi , October 05, 2010
This is what Dr Habira, an arab scholar said for people like Reed Wilson "". . while the terrorists are clear enemies, the moderates make inroads into `infidel' lands, and deceive the host cultures by presenting islam as peaceful religion until the terrorists could do the dirty work. Without the moderate Islamic façade, the terrorists cannot survive because they will be quickly exposed". Another scholar said "The moderates hold down the feet of the west while the militants cut it's throat"

0
...
written by Reed Wilson , October 05, 2010
to Duh-swami. Thank you.

to Ravi. It is opinion of Dr. Habira. And who is another scholar?
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Violence.
written by Reed Wilson , October 05, 2010
IW1.

I answered you as courtesy. Otherwise I am not concerned with what Muslims doing if doing.

I try to restrict on Islam/Quran.
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Reed Wilson, you ,CAIR, ISNA, ICNA should be ashamed of yourself
written by Ravi , October 06, 2010
What does it matter who the scholar is. It does not take a rocket scietist to see what is obivious. You guys lull the westerners to a false sense of security by decieving them that islam is a religion of peace , quran is a manual of love and Mohammad was the kindest man who ever lived, knowing very well that islam has a bloody history of 1400 years, quran is a manual of hatred, violence and terror (supported by quran) and Mohammad was a rapist robber and a killer (supported by quran) . It is like recommending a known pedophile to family of children to be kept as a house guest by decieving them that he is a very good man. Reed Wilson that is exactly what taqiyya artists like you, CAIR,ISNA , ICNA etc are doing ; you all should be ashamed of yourself. Without your lies, and sanitizing and whitewashing of islam it would be removed from the list of religions and declared an ideology of hate and violence.That is the only way to stop islamization, conversion of hard core criminals to islam in prisons , production of homegrown terrorists and threat to the security of of the western civilization.
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David Kuresh.
written by Reed Wilson , October 07, 2010
Yes Duh-swami. "Dead men tell no tales so it's convenient to blame them".

She reminded me David Kuresh. Her father and mother did not do Church marriage and he was considered bastered.

Marriage is decision to live together for the whole life. It is a contract between the spouses. But clergy wants his share.

DK was soft spoken down-to-earth sweet person. He did not do what ever is falsely attributed to him.
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Bukhari?
written by Reed Wilson , October 07, 2010
Moktar Naeemi. "I am a muslim who truly believes that denying hadiths is denying quran. They both are interdependant". It is a queer expression. Can there be muslim who does not believe in Quran?

Interdependent means that none, Quran and hadis is independent. Believing without virtues is funny believing.

Moktar you are not less than Shibli Zaman.

What would be your reply to God when asked why did you believe Bukhari. May be you dont believe in meeting Him!!
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...
written by Reed Wilson , October 07, 2010
Reed Wilson, you ,CAIR, ISNA, ICNA should be ashamed of yourself
WhyRavi? What happend?
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To Reed Wilson
written by Garden Variety Troll , October 08, 2010
I'm answering in behalf of MNaemi, since no one has.

You are saying “Quranic ayas have neither chronology nor context, and to understand the chronology and context you need hadiths and sira”. I just want to learn. Tell me how. Give examples.


Stop trying to force the issue of semantics - it makes me think you're just playing ignorant and giggling behind everyone, thinking you're smarter than everyone else.

The Torah/Bible has chronology, the Qur'an does not.

A book with chronology:
To put this into your brain, imagine a book with page and chapter numbers at the bottom of each page. Now, remove each and every page from its spine and throw the pages in the air and rearrange it. It'd be easy because you have the page numbers and the chapter numbers at the bottom of each page for reference, at the end of rearranging everything you'd have a book that resembles -- if not the original book before you threw it in the air.

A book without chronology:
Imagine the same book with inconsistent page/chapter numberings, (i.e. some have the page/chapter numbers, some don't) and you threw each and every page into the air and rearranged it back into the same book. You'd have a hard time (harder if some of those pages were eaten by goats), but being it is a book of great and profound importance you did it anyway... you end up with a book without chronology. And slap on page numbering after you're done, so it'd be easy to rearrange it again.

The reason why people say the Qur'an doesn't have chronology is because reading the Bible is like reading a novel, the events depicted in the Bible happens one after the other (the term is called chronological, gr khronos: time).

Please also tell me what the use of Quran is? What God says about Quran?


Again, you're playing around. Stop the bullshit. The Qur'an is a compilation of religious sayings of Muhammad (related according to him, from Allah via Jibrail), and written for him (because he was illiterate). There is no other use for the Qur'an except again for reference, but it being unintelligible needs another set of books to be deciphered of its meanings, therefore you have the Hadiths and the Sura. According to Allah via Jibrail via Muhammad, the Qur'an is the proof (or, the miracle) of Muhammad's prophethood. (According to the Bible miracles of prophethood are something like turning your staff into a snake, or making the river Nile turn into blood, hailstones, etc)

Do we have chronology and context in hadis and sira and how they are very important? What is chronology?


You do not really need chronology in both the Hadiths and Sura because it's a reference book. Put simply both the Hadiths and the Sura are medieval semitic versions of Cliff Notes for the Qur'an.
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Naeemi will show up.
written by Reed Wilson , October 08, 2010
To Garden Variety Troll You write "I'm answering in behalf of MNaemi, since no one has".

Thank you GVT for all the labor. I asked various things from Naeemi as he claimed a set of belief. I have noted what you advanced.

I hope Naeemi will write. Else it will lead me to think that he agreed
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To Reed Wilson
written by Archpagan , October 08, 2010
If siras and hadithis are false, how would one know the life of the (ig)noble prophet? Dear, please write your own siras and distribute the same to the believers and non-belivers alike. You will be doing noble service to humanity and regarded as the new prophet of Islam in place of Osama bin Laden. Visit Islamic sites give your trashes. One Islamic scholar of Egypt opined that Koran should be dated, and he was killed like a vermin. Calling about context in Koran is regarded as blasphemy.
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Blasphemy.
written by Reed Wilson , October 08, 2010
To Archpagan. You are asking “If siras and hadith are false, how would one know the life of the (ig) noble prophet?

If hadis and sira are false and there no other source, one can not know the life of prophet (messenger of Allah). You know that false sources are not sources of knowledge.

You write “One Islamic scholar of Egypt opined that Koran should be dated, and he was killed like a vermin. Calling about context in Koran is regarded as blasphemy”. Quran says:

Tell them: "Come, I will read out what your Lord has made binding on you:
•That you make none the equal of God.
•Be good to your parents
•Do not abandon your children out of poverty, for We give you food and We shall provide for them; Avoid what is shameful, whether open or hidden
•Do not kill any living being which God has forbidden without justification (animal hunting for fun).
•Do not spend the belongings of the orphans but for their betterment, until they come of age;
•Give in full measure, and weigh justly on the balance. God does not burden a soul beyond capacity. When you say a thing, let it be just, even though the matter relate to a relative of yours,
•Fulfill a promise made to God.

These are the things that He has enjoined that you may take heed. (6:151-52)

How calling about context of Quran is blasphemy, I don’t know but ignoring Quran is definitely blasphemy.


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To Reed Wilson
written by lw1 , October 08, 2010
You write 'I answered you as courtesy. Otherwise I am not concerned with what Muslims doing if doing. I try restrict on Islam/Quran.'
In 'Embodiment of Altruism, article of 22/09/2010, you had written on September 24 2010, 'They (Muslims)are voilent(violent) if you contradict. They are NOT DOING BAD TO ANYBODY OTHER THAN THEMSELVES.' That is not true. All the victims of 9/11 and Nov 2008 in Mumbai had bad done to them. You are refusing to admit that.
You have also not answered which point exactly you were referring to by saying it was 'allegation'.
This whole debate started because you mentioned violence by Muslims. Now you are saying '....Otherwise I am not concerned with what Muslims doing if doing. I try to restrict on Islam/Quran.'
Most of the people who go to this site do not believe in Islam/Quran. Some have even moved away from Islam. We don't advocate violence or terrorism. There are sites where Muslims are advocating violence in the name of Allah. If you are not spending as much or more time in explaining the message of Islam/Quran being peaceful (which you believe to be true, but we don't) than your logic is faulty.
( This is a thread from 'Embodiment of Altruism' an article on 22/09/2010, continued in 'The Prophets ...of 29/09/2010, when Reed Wilson stopped answering in 'Embodiment of Altruism of 22/09/2010.)
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...
written by duh_swami , October 08, 2010
How calling about context of Quran is blasphemy, I don’t know but ignoring Quran is definitely blasphemy.

Using the Quran as a history book, as you insist on doing, is blasphemy...
But that's between you and Allah...
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Violent behaviour on hadis contradiction.
written by Reed Wilson , October 08, 2010
To IW1.
It started when Machmoed wrote to Mirza Ghalib (on Sept.24 at Embodiment..) about muslims who believed hadis and sira and called them insane. On this I wrote that they believe all trash and they are violent if contradicted. I added that this behavior was bad for themselves. I was condemning a condemnable thing. My point was misunderstood and taken as overall violence. Anyway, I condemned that too.

What so called muslims doing is not essentially Islam.
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To Reed Wilson
written by Archpagan , October 09, 2010
As a Hindu I have objection only against your first bullet point . Because, we feel God can manifest himself differently to His different devotees, as also He can be called by different names, not Allah alone. I find nothing new in others. All were known to mankind before Muhammad. We need not worship a bandit, rapist and murderer for following/ knowing such principle. Now, tell me (1) if God is one who are Pharistas, are they not Godly figures?(2) If God is shapeless how did he send message in the language of man? (3) Why did God put cork in his mouth after giving the last ayat of Koran?
0
...
written by duh_swami , October 09, 2010
What so called muslims doing is not essentially Islam.

Yes it is...It is what you are doing that is not essentially Islam...You are the apostate not the Muslims you complain about...Over a billion Muslims have it wrong, and Reed is one of the very few 'special' people that have it right...
The difference is that regular pious Muslims do not try and use the Quran as a history book, they use Hadith for that...Because if the Quran were a history book, it loses it divinity...History can be challenged, reconsidered, and interpreted, and reinterpreted, Allah's words cannot. If you put Allah's words through the process of challenge, reconsideration, interpretation, you are in effect 'warring with Allah'...You can then cancel the idea that Allah's words are for all time...That is what trying to put the Quran in context does...If it has context, it is not divine and Allah's words are open to challenge. Those Muslims and so called Muslims, who rise to challenge the words of Allah, by any method at all, are guilty of trying to cancel Allah, and replace him with themselves...They are shirkers, and blasphemers...Hadith is the tool that is used to examine Islams history, without using Quran as a history book, thus the interested Muslim is safe from those charges...Since Reed Wilson rejects Hadith, and uses the Quran as his history book, he is not exempt from those charges...But that is fine with me, I blaspheme Allah all the time...He never seems to mind when I do it...at least he has never says anything...
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Prominent.
written by Reed Wilson , October 09, 2010
duh-swami. You are still in the hurricane "You are the apostate not the Muslims you complain about...Over a billion Muslims have it wrong, and Reed is one of the very few 'special' people that have it right".

It is possible duhswami.

If I am an apostate again I am the only solitary single among 6 billion who calls himself a Muslim.

0
...
written by Reed Wilson , October 09, 2010
duh-swami. History book! You are Master of Confusing.
0
to Reed Wilson
written by lw1 , October 09, 2010
Do you spend any time writing in sites by 'Muslims'(most of whom you disqualify as Muslims) who are advocating violence? Surely it is logical to inform people who say that they believe in the Quran, what the right meaning of Quran is (which you believe gives a peaceful message, but we do not) as they are misguided according to you ? If you truly believe in peaceful message they should be your target.
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Deed
written by duh_swami , October 09, 2010
duh-swami. History book! You are Master of Confusing.

Not me, it's you who use's Quran as a history book...
0
Muslim sites.
written by Reed Wilson , October 10, 2010
IW1. I do visit those sites sometime.
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History Book.
written by Reed Wilson , October 10, 2010
duhswami. You write, "Not me, it's you who use's Quran as a history book".

Where? Give me example.
0
Reed
written by duh_swami , October 10, 2010
Every time you use one aya, to refer to another aya, that refers to an event...I have already explained this to you...If the Quran is 100% Allah's word, then every aya has the exact same value as any other aya, and then are good for all time...If you add context, you place more value on one aya than some other aya, placing the aya at a particular time, place and purpose...That is history...If you tell me that 8:39, for instance, is not applicable today, you are reciting history...
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History.
written by Reed Wilson , October 10, 2010
duhswami. You write "Every time you use one aya, to refer to another aya".

Yes sometimes it is needed. For example:

"He said who is rabbul aalamin". This is one aya or verse. I will see the preceding aya to tell you who said. I quote an aya when required by people.

For instance, to reply if 8:39 is applicable, I must know that it is for the people who were stopping the way of Masjidal Haram. If those conditions prevail what outlined in Chapter 8 and you are in a position in which they were, yes it is applicable.
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Reed
written by duh_swami , October 10, 2010
Thanks for making my point...8:39 is not the word of Allah for today, so because history tells us that it applies to Masjidal Haram situation, we can ignore it...But the Quran does not know this name 'Masjidal Haram'...so where did you dig that up? Hadith? Some scholar? Gabriel told you?

Are there any other aya's besides 8:39 to be ignored, or can we just ignore the whole history book?
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Masjidal Haram.
written by Reed Wilson , October 10, 2010
duhswami. No Sir, It is divine message for all time.

Masjdil Haram is in Quran. It is same as Kaaba.

I quote from same chapter 8. The verse is 34.

وَمَا لَهُمْ أَلَّا يُعَذِّبَهُمُ اللَّـهُ وَهُمْ يَصُدُّونَ عَنِ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ وَمَا كَانُوا أَوْلِيَاءَهُ ۚ إِنْ أَوْلِيَاؤُهُ إِلَّا الْمُتَّقُونَ وَلَـٰكِنَّ أَكْثَرَهُمْ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ

Ignoring will lead to ignorance.
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Reed
written by duh_swami , October 10, 2010
Masjdil Haram is in Quran. It is same as Kaaba.

So it's there in disguise...The Quran is a very clear book except for its disguises and misrepresentations and lies...

I must know that it is for the people who were stopping the way of Masjidal Haram.

Since Kaaba is a place, how could people stop its way? Makes no sense to me...
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Nobody can stop way of a place.
written by Reed Wilson , October 11, 2010
To duh_swami. You are asking:

Since Kaaba is a place, how could people stop its way?

I will not tell you. I will not tell you everything. It is like asking dictionary meanings.

So Mr. Take trouble and find out yourself from Quran. Still problem, RW is here.
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Reed
written by duh_swami , October 11, 2010
I will not tell you. I will not tell you everything.

I take that to mean you don't know...It was you who brought it up, so it is up to you to support your own words, or admit you don't know...
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....
written by Machmoed , October 11, 2010
Masjid alharaam is the kaba. The kaba is a shrine for all sort of Gods and were the grandfather of Muhammad almost sacrificed Muhammad, the son of abda allah. This is what they used to do in front of Kaba. Worshipping all kind of gods and allah was their chief god. The kaba was also a place where the arabs hang up their poetry (almo3allaqat means that wich is hanged up). Some of imrulqais'es poetry was hanged there. a couple of these poetry verses can be found in Quran (exactly the same). In Yemen before Muhammad was born they believed in arrahmaan and arraheem. This deity is borrowed into the quran as one of his many characteristic. This is only done to include their god in islam. Furthermore the bismi allahi arrahmani arraheem is also found as scripture maybe hundred years older than the oldest quranmanuscript. There is too much that don't fit in the orthodox vision. Thomas Milo (scholar and writer of the book: controversial resources of islam) went to Egypt to confront muslims with facts that are contrary to islamic vision. No muslim could answer his questions and muslim scholars are silenced. almost 60 % of egyptians do not believe islam is the truth. Egypt is not unique in that. One of his questions to muslims is for example like this: We have found coins dated approximately 668 A.D. with in arabic MHMD rslllh with on the other side a zoroastrian halfgod or a crusifix! Unexplainable from the point of islamic tradition. No muslim who could answer it. An other question is: the first khaliefs where not in Mekka or Medina but in Iraq and syria etc. Why did the eastern khaliefs warred the west (the khlaief of Mekka (Yazid) wich was killed by muslims). No muslim ever could and can answer this because it shows that it was all political, not religious. Here is an other fact: Egypte didn't become islamic till the 10th century, but the rest west to Egypte was islamized. It seemes again it was political. Like many scholars of islam i also believe that islam came afterwards and was not the issue for imperialism. Islam is not the reason for conquest, but the conquest was the reason for islam.
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Searching.
written by Reed Wilson , October 11, 2010
To duh-swami. I have also said "So Mr. Take trouble and find out yourself from Quran. Still problem, RW is here.

There are sofwares for Quran searching. I dont want to overload the site with Quranic quotations. Even if I dont know I can search for you.
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...
written by Reed Wilson , October 11, 2010
Machmoed. I will not reject whatever you are writing, though it is extra-Quranic.

I could not get what you want to establish by all that.
0
...
written by duh_swami , October 12, 2010
There are sofwares for Quran searching. I dont want to overload the site with Quranic quotations. Even if I dont know I can search for you.

I didn't get on the internet yesterday...You already overload the site with Quranic quotes, that's basically all you have...When you make a statement, and are challenged, it is up to you to defend what you said, not just direct someone to a search engine...
In the west, we call that kind of behavior, a 'cop out'...
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Reed
written by Machmoed , October 12, 2010
You Wrote: I could not get what you want to establish by all that.

What i wrote is proven history, not the history of Tabari or whatever. Real history is a real problem to the story of islam. This is because all the mumble jumble about Quran, the messenger etc. are all emerged from untruthfull politic people and you believe them. For example Egypt not islamized till 10th century is a historical fact. The coins are historical facts. mosques build in 8th century with the prayerdirection to Jaruzalem is a historical fact. Quran being different than we have today is also a historical fact. Hijra didn't exist in the first 150 years after death of Muhammad is historical fact. It was called the year of the arabs, not hijra. All these facts mean one thing. The story of the arabs is false or not entirely true. What is true and what is not, no one knows but it is not reliable to follow. Quran sais: do not take anything for granted unless you have knowledge about it. Do we have knowledge about the events of Muhammad except by hearsay. Arabs/muslims told you quran is from Allah. Could this be true while they lied about a great other things. Logical thinking would deffinately bring you to the conclusion that this is not the case.

If Hijra never happened and therefor as you already believe no meccan and no medinian sura's than the whole quran as explained is not trustworthy/true.

Ashura=paganistic ritual for polyethists=historical fact.

Don't believe arabs and at the same time believing it's allah. You are a witness that i told you that it is not from Allah/God.
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Makki/Madni.
written by Reed Wilson , October 12, 2010
Machmoed. You write "If Hijra never happened and therefor as you already believe no meccan and no medinian sura's than the whole quran as explained is not trustworthy/true".

Even if Hijra happened, such a divide of a book is not logical. When you write a book it is immaterial you write it from US or UK.

In our copies of Quran it is written on each sura, like part of revelation, that this Makki or Madani. It is not known who declared as Makki or Madani_the author or the messenger.

A hadith normally culminates on the messenger of Allah. Interestingly, I have observed that such hadith which declares a sura as Makki/Madni does not culminate on the messenger. It is always a Sahabi who says that it revealed where.

The sahabis verdict is also conflicts still the sura is marked Makki or Madni in Quran. In this context may I tell you that sura Bani Israil bears as Makki. Here I quote a hadis from Bukhari:

Bukhari,Volume 9 : Book 92 : Hadith 400 :
Narrated by Ibn Masud:
I was with the Prophet at one of the farms of Medina while he was leaning on a date palm leaf-stalk. He passed by a group of Jews and some of them said to the other, Ask him (the Prophet) about the spirit. Some others said, "Do not ask him, lest he should tell you what you dislike" But they went up to him and said, "O Abal Qasim! Inform us bout the spirit." The Prophet stood up for a while, waiting. I realized that he was being Divinely Inspired, so I kept away from him till the inspiration was over. Then the Prophet said, "(O Muhammad) they ask you regarding the spirit, Say: The spirit its knowledge is with my Lord (i.e., nobody has its knowledge except Allah)" (17.85)

Bani Israel is marked as Makki despite above which is repeated in Bukhari many times.

I cannot believe it even if Moktar kills me and goes to Paradise.




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2 Reed
written by Machmoed , October 13, 2010
I realized that he was being Divinely Inspired, so I kept away from him till the inspiration was over. Then the Prophet said, "(O Muhammad) they ask you regarding the spirit, Say: The spirit its knowledge is with my Lord (i.e., nobody has its knowledge except Allah)" (17.85)

when he spoke these words it seems the inspiration was not over yet. I don't believe he really said that. First there was this sentence and after that they created a story. How can Muhammad say anything if it's clear that he is not the one who speaks here. They ask you is impossible to be the words of the messenger, so this hadith is once again a proof for it's lowlevel thinkers. I hope you can see what i mean.
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , October 13, 2010
To Machmoed. You observe:
"They ask you is impossible to be the words of the messenger, so this hadith is once again a proof for it's lowlevel thinkers. I hope you can see what i mean".

It is Bukhari's reporting. Yes, lowlevel thinkers to be very polite. What amazes most is the acceptability of such reports. Those welcome are no less lowlevel.

The myth of Makki/Madani is also evident. Here Bukhari tells that Bani Israil was revealed in Madina. There are innumerable such blunders in hadis books.
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Reed
written by duh_swami , October 15, 2010
Here Bukhari tells that Bani Israil was revealed in Madina. There are innumerable such blunders in hadis books.

Bukhari does not tell anything...He is a compiler...He attempts to follow a 'chain of transmitters', to its source, and then reports about it...In all hadiths, there must be at least one where it says, 'I heard the Prophet say', or 'The Prophet said this or did that, that actually happened...The Prophet says little in Quran in the way of direct quotes, but he is very talkative in Hadith...
In fact I get the impression that he never shuts up...If the 'Prophet' ever actually existed in the flesh, he must have said something more than what is in Quran...If you toss all hadith, you will never know if he said anything of additional importance...That may not matter to those who are content with only a part of the story...But as with all stories a part of it is only a part of it...
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , October 16, 2010
duhswami.

"Bukhari does not tell anything". You are right. It is really nothing.

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Reed
written by duh_swami , October 17, 2010
"Bukhari does not tell anything". You are right. It is really nothing.

Twisted words, I didn't say that Bukhari's compilations were worthless, I said he does not 'tell' anything which is personal to him and not his work...if the compilation is worthless, that is a different issue...
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Misguiding.
written by Reed Wilson , October 18, 2010
duh-swami.
"Twisted words, I didn't say that Bukhari's compilations were worthless". Yes you did not say that and I misused your word.

I am saying that they are worthless. Worthless is also a tribute. It is misguiding.
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To Muktar Naeemi
written by Naveed Anjum , October 24, 2010
Sir I am a Muslim from Pakistan. I read your comments on column of Ayesha Ahmed. Even though I am not an apostate but I have made research on Islam through Quran and Hadith. As you said Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) married so many women only to give them shelter and food, it seems that you do not have sound research on Quran nad Hadith. If you say that Prophet Muhammad only married widows then you should quest that who made them widow? I don't want to be engaged in this discussion why did he marry too many women because I fear of Allah.. Actually Islam do not permit us to say even a single word of doubt for Prophet that is why I cant discuss it lest I would be out of Islam.

But one thing I want to say to Christians and Westerners here!! You can compare Muslims women with Westerner women. Even though Bible also recommend modesty and chasisity for the women. Are the Westerner women and their culture modest? While Muslims women are chaste... Leave Holy Quran but even Bible also is truely followed by Muslim women if we talk about modesty and chastity. Would you agree witih me?
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Naveed Anjum
written by duh_swami , October 25, 2010
'Actually Islam do not permit us to say even a single word of doubt for Prophet that is why I cant discuss it lest I would be out of Islam'.

And maybe dead...Fine religion you have there...At least Christians and Jews, with all their faults, can openly discuss or disagree with 'scripture', and not get killed...There is 'right thinking' and 'wrong thinking', if no one can discuss these issues, no progress can be made, and mental stagnation results...
This is an advantage to Imams, but a disadvantage to you personally...
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Modest women...
written by duh_swami , October 25, 2010
Are the Westerner women and their culture modest? While Muslims women are chaste...

There is more than one American woman, there are many...Some are modest, and some are not...They are free to make the choice...Their range of choices are from very conservative dress and behavior, to open public nudity, as in a nude beach, or starring in pornography...
Those who are religious have a tendency to not star in a porno movie...Almost all immodesty in the west, is from the 'liberal' side of the board...You will find very few conservative women in porno or the nude beach...In the US there are more conservative types than liberals...Which means the majority of women in the US are modest, by choice...Generally speaking Muslimahs have no choice, and in many area's are forced to wear tents...
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from above
written by Machmoed , October 25, 2010
There is 'right thinking' and 'wrong thinking'.

when the other is wrong for not believing you, you're wrong. This means islam is wrong.

To make the other an unbeliever just because he/she doesn't believe in your god, it is wrong thinking. If God made everyone unique, it means his/her thoughts are unique also. Who are we to judge wether a human is wrong for believing in some kind of creator. If thinking/believing the other must believe as you do and in the same god, this believe is wrong and will lead you to horror (look at muslimcountries).

Duh: when Lenny Kravitz sang American woman, did he mean a conservative woman or a porn actress?...just kidding.
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Wives_more than wives.
written by Reed Wilson , October 25, 2010
Naveed Anjum. After reading Quran you want answers of your questions from Mukhtar Naeemi!!

We don't need to know the wives of the messenger of Allah. Do we?

You have to follow all the messengers of Allah including Jesus, Abraham Moses and all. Would you need the knowing wives of all the messengers, their ages and measurements?

God has gaceously told you what was required. He will not question you who was Xaveria? He expects us to do something. That involves sacrifice which leads you to fitness to enter in the kingdom of God in Christian parlance.

Quran encourages thinking on it. Thinking is not possible without questioning. Giving sanctity to everything, not sure if it existed, is the reason of blockheadedness. Christians were also doing so. Now they are getting open and frank while dealing with religion.

A widow is not essentially a woman whose husband died or murdered. A divorced woman is also a widow in Arabic.

Marrying for shelter and food is not Nikah. That was a stupid cover up given by MN. He didnt show up for long.
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you donot know any thing about islam or you may counterfeiting the truths!!
written by Abu Baraa , October 25, 2010
JENNIFER DOBNER is a bigger liar ,I wonder that from where she gets her information
about prophet Mohammed "God bleess been upon him" as the messenger of God is
guide all peoples from bestiality behaviour to humanity and justness and his curriculum
"Islam religion"rescue the humankind from aberrant to the cress and making human right to be
be conserved every time & every where
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Reed
written by fineliving56 , October 25, 2010
No Reed ….the meaning of widow is not the same as divorced ….Widow is Armaleh ….divorced is Motallaka …it comes from the original word Tallak and never used some times either
One think about the Arabic languish is vast ….there is saying I used hear ... if every languish is sea Arabic is ocean . Your expertise in Arabic seems as bad as you are in Quran …do not feel too bad my english is as bad as your Arabic .
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Widow.
written by Reed Wilson , October 27, 2010
To fineliving56. Thanks. Widow is not an Arabic word. What is Arabic word fora widow?
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To Naveed Anjum
written by Mokhtar Naeemi , October 27, 2010
Naveed you wrote " If you say that Prophet Muhammad only married widows then you should quest that who made them widow"? Answer is their husband's denial to accept the truth of islam made them widows. They were offered islam which would have made them happy in this life and given them paradise in the hereafter. But they chose death. Islam strictly prohibits killing of women so their wives were spared. Prophet honored them greatly by accepting them as wives and making them mother of believers and future residents of paradise. Yes Prophet married them to give them respect, safety, shelter and food. Kuffar say he married them for lust. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Any ways I see weakness in your faith. Pl. repent and spend time with an islamic scholar, he will clear all your doubts.Idol man's brain is devil's workshop. Spend free time in prayer and reading quran instead of reading this website. Muslims with weak iman should stay clear of this website.
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2 Reed
written by fineliving56 , October 27, 2010
the Arabic word for widow woman is Armalah and for widow man is Armal ….divorced woman is Motallaka …and divorced man is Motallak .
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Sage counsel.
written by Reed Wilson , October 29, 2010
Moktar. You write “Islam strictly prohibits killing of women”. It is a virtue which nowhere in Quran. Is it your suggestion?

May be the prophet married for the purposes you suggest. How did you know that?

It would have been better if you give the name of Islamic scholar. Or any Islamic scholar will do?

You are suggesting Anjum to read Quran. But Quran according to you, is hadis dependent. Can she cover hadis in her remaining life even if she lives for another 100 years? Why you are not suggesting her to read hadis?

You are asking her to say her prayers in free time. It is hard to find free time these days.
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Free time!!
written by Reed Wilson , October 30, 2010
Mokhtar. Why you are not suggesting Anjum to read hadis? May be because you know that she cannot finish hadis in her remaining life, even if she lived for another 100 years.

You are asking her to read Quran and Quran according to you is hadis dependent.

“Spend free time in prayer and reading quran instead of reading this website”. This seems nice suggestion. It is however hard to find ‘free time’ now a days.






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To Mokhtar Naeemi bhai
written by Naveed Anjum , October 30, 2010
Sir I am a male not female.... Brother Mukhtar you said that their husband's denial of truth made them widow. It means you are affirming that whoever denies Islam must be killed???????? Is it your point?? This is the reason that I am frustrated that whoever at the time of Prophet Muhammad denied Islam was put to death and you are confirming this fact... Brother I have made an extensive research on Hadis regarding marriages of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and his honored wives. In all the Sihah e Sitta it is shown that prophet (PBUH) was attracted to their beauty. They used to wage war on the different clans of Jews and killed thier men and took their women for themselves making them sex slaves. Quran also allows this to have sex with captive women... More than that, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) used to select most beautiful women among the captive women for himself..

Brother these are not my words but I am referring Bukhari, Muslim, Sinan Abu Dawood and other authentic resources. Sir my father is religious person very very religious person taliban type man. He prescribes me as same as you are prescribing me for Salaat.. But Sir I know these things about the Islam and history of Islam, my heart does nt allow me to pray Namaz. I told this to my father many times that prophet Muhammad married like this and this... But he denied this and said it cant be happen. I showed him Bukhari and Muslim... First time he was surprised but then he evade that "Hmmm you cannot understand Bukhari without the help of any scholar. It is not like that which you are taking it. It has some different meanings which you cannot understand" What a joke Sir??? Cant I understand English and Urdu? IN both languages I have read Bukhari..
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Muktare
written by fineliving56 , October 30, 2010
You have warped thinking that topical of a backward ,savaged and demented Muslim …….so let me see if I understood that right …..non muslim man if they did not except Islam by force it is their [the non muslim]FAULT OF GETTING KILLED BY MUSLIM….. there for ...it produces too many widows …there for ….it is their[the women] fault of getting that way ….there for ….muslim man had to do charity and HAD to marrying them all top of each other ….hay moron... what kind of logic is that …….if Quran ordered not to kill women…. there for …I had to be one these in need of charity women …there for ….I RATHER BE BEHEADED LIKE YOUR self appointed prophet did to so many non muslim man ……IT LOOKES LIKE YOU AND MUSLIM LIKE YOU ARE GETTING NERVOUS ….MUSLIM ARE LEAVING THE CRULE ISLAM IN GROVES …AND I AM ONE OF THEM …...THAT IS WHY YOU WROTE THAT POST TO NAVVED … …LESTEN GOOD your kind of thinking and people like you made me and people like me leave islam …there for …
cheers
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Reed and Anjum
written by Mokhtar Nadeemi , October 31, 2010
Reed since you are not a muslim you dont understand these things. One recites quran to get Allah's blessings which makes your iman stronger and protects you from satan. It is satan which makes you deny hadiths and quran. I consider Reed as non muslim as the writer of this blasphemic article because denying hadith is denying quran. Allah has said in quran obeying Allah is obeying Mohammad and hadith says what Mohammad said. Anjum when a momin kills a kafir purely for Allah it is Allah who is killing not that momin (quran 8.17). Anjum Your father is absolutely right.You should read hadiths under the guidance of an scholar who will tell you the right context . If you read by yourself you end up an apostate like Reed.
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Mochtar
written by fineliving56 , October 31, 2010
I know you read my post but you choose to ignore …you want to try to safe Anjon from leaving Islam …but believe me it is no use ….your prophet was womanizer six crazed killer …sick…sick…sick …the headeeth is a written witness proofing his sick mind that infested all minds of all muslims since 1400 years ago …I am saved and free I hope Anjon will be saved and free like me there is nothing like that feeling of peace after I left Islam …God is innocent of all religion especially Islam
cheers
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Nadeemi or Naeemi.
written by Reed Wilson , November 01, 2010
To Mokhtar Nadeemi. “Reed since you are not a Muslim you don’t understand these things”. Do you mean Islam is not for non Muslims to understand?

You write “Allah has said in quran obeying Allah is obeying Mohammad and hadith says what Mohammad said”. Ridiculous.

One can only obey one who is present or living. Those who found and believed the messenger did obey him. Now you can follow (ittabaoo) him and follow all other messengers.

Hadith is not what messenger said. It is Quran what the messenger said. Had it been messenger’s sayings, he must have documented during his life time or by his successors. Now you even don’t know the number of such ‘sayings’.

Nadeemi, you are misusing 8:17 stupidly.

“You should read hadiths under the guidance of a scholar who will tell you the right context”. What non sense!! Allah commands to think over on Quran yourself and hadis demands a scholar!! Do you have context in hadis?

Is it the property of hadis that whosoever reads it by himself, he becomes apostate like Reed?

Is there any scholar on surface of this earth who knows the exact number of ahadith? Anjum, who is a male, cannot finish the hadis before end of his life.

Naeemi you write "Islam strictly prohibits killing of women". Can you tell me where?
Is it the same Islam of Pharaoh which allowed him to kill men and spare girls?

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Reed
written by Mokhtar Naeemi , November 01, 2010
You are dead wrong Reed. Prophet himself neither compiled hadiths nor quran . Both come from sahabas . Then why you believe in one and deny the other? Just because it suits your agenda of using iquran's 's ambiguity to change interpretations to your liking? I bet like quran hadiths were also written in bits and pieces in his life . Are you sure quran was compiled before hadiths? Nobody knows for sure when were they compiled.You say I do not know the number of hadiths, do you know how many ayasProphet quoted originally as words of Allah. You probably also know that compilers mixed his words with Allah's words at many places.
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Who is sahabi?
written by Reed Wilson. , November 03, 2010
To Moktar Naeemi. You write "“Prophet himself neither compiled hadiths nor quran . Both come from sahabas”.

Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawood, Ibn Majja, Nisai, Darmi and all other compilers are not sahaba. They are not even Arabs. One and only Arab was Malik of Muatta who is rejected as unauthentic by ‘scholars’.

Even definition of sahabi is disputed.

We find writings of Abubakar, Umar, Usman and Ali in archives. None of them wrote even a single hadith. We don’t even know the number and volume of ahadith. It is all fluid and have no foundation. I am telling you the truth. You will not believe because Reed Wilson is saying so. Had Fakhruddin said, you would have accepted.

Even this is not sure that Bukhari was compiled by Abu Abdulla. There is a dispute. These compilers hide their names. Some are abu and some are ibne. They are masked.

Have seen foreword of Bukhari. None. He wrote many other books all of them have foreword. He wanted to escape the responsibility of all the blasphemy he has done in the sinister compilations. He was not allowed burial in Bukhara. Same is good for others.

Have you heard of famous hadis that the messenger said “I am leaving behind Quran and my sunnah to follow? Then why none of the Caliphs who were sahabis also did not compile the ahadith as first priority? No this all was invented in 9th century.

Nobody finds ambiguity in Quran.
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REED and MOKHTAR
written by Naveed Anjum , November 04, 2010
Dear Reed and Moktar,

May I know where are you from? I am from Pakistan. Reed were you Muslim previously? Your name seems Christian name.
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To Naveed Anjum.
written by Reed Wilson. , November 04, 2010
Dear Naveed. Thank you for asking about me. Reed Wilson is my pseudonym. I do have a name :)

I have multiple ethnicity. I belonged to international service for some time. I am a very aged person_ approaching 75 years. I have spent entire life in scientific pursuits.

I started taking interest in religion for not more than 10 years. I do have Christian background and am a Muslim without divorcing Christianity. My will is subordinate to the will of God. This is the real definition of Muslim. We have such Muslims in Quran. All messengers, irrespective to religion were Muslims. Companions of Jesus Christ were Muslims.

Good you are from Pakistan. I lived there. I also lived in the Philippines for considerable period.

Quran is my obsession. Being a Muslim it is my mission to propagate the message therein. I visit Islam watch with this agenda.
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To Reed Wilson
written by Naveed Anjum , November 05, 2010
Sir, if you are a Muslim, why do you speak against Islam and Quran? It is mind blowing. Why did Mokhtar called you as a non Muslim and apostate? Accordig to your last post, you seem very religious Muslim but your thoughts are contrary to Islam. Can you explain this Sir?
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If Muslim?
written by Reed Wilson. , November 05, 2010
To Naveed Anjum. You write "Sir, if you are a Muslim, why do you speak against Islam and Quran?

When? Quote me.

"Why did Mokhtar called you as a non Muslim and apostate?"

Please ask him. Why do Muslims call other Muslims non Muslim?

"Accordig to your last post, you seem very religious Muslim but your thoughts are contrary to Islam".

My 'last post' contained my thoughts. Where my thoughts you found contrary to Islam? I Can you explain this on knowing, Sir?
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To Reed Wilson
written by Naveed Anjum , November 05, 2010
Oh Reed, today I carefully read all posts on this page with details and came to know that you are a more Muslim than Mokhtar and you are more sincere to Islam. Why? Because your attempts are to defend the Islam in anyway by denying Hadis... But I would say Mokhtar is honest Muslim and do not denying the Hadis. Why? Because I dont thing Mokhtar has carefully studied the Hadis. Had he read out what itis written in Hadis, he would have denied hadis like you... No doubt you both are Muslims and trying to defend Islam.

Anyway Sir, as you are a perfect Quran believing Muslim I would ask you certain things from Quran later. First of all tell me why did you deny and then evade in one of your earlier posts while repying to J.K that 33:50 does not talk about Captured women? J.K again asked it but you evade his question. Sir, 33:50 explicitly mentions the term "right hand possesed" tht means captive women. Besdes that at numerous places in Quran, it is clearly mentioned that captive women is lawful to have sex wtih.
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Reply follows.
written by Reed Wilson. , November 06, 2010
Naveed Anjum. I have posted detailed reply which will appear after scrutiny by the adiministrator.

Defending Islam is not my mission at this site specifically. I read articles and comments and see where Quran is misunderstood and wrongly quoted. When somebody something to Islam which is not in Quran, I will say it is not Islam and not Quran. Mostly this is my approach.

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Marriage.
written by Reed Wilson. , November 08, 2010
To Naveed Anjum. The reply did not follow so far.
I have partially replied you on other page "Why They Leave Islam and Become Christians".

Sir, there is no captive woman in 33:50.
It is nothing more than eligibility of slaves for marrying.You can not keep captives after the war ends. It is Quran.

There is much difference in "being lawful for sex" and "being eligible for marriage".

You will have to marry her and share the responsibilities.
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To Reed
written by Mokhtar , November 11, 2010
OK you are doubtful that what is in hadiths were not observed/written by sahabs and were created by non sahabas and are not the words and deeds of Prophet.. But you know 100% that quran was not written by Allah by his own hands but written by humans . Why do you yet believe 100% that they are words of God? I know you are a kafir but are in the forum for kicks to irritate muslims. .
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To Ayesha
written by Mark Hill , April 15, 2011
I read this article recently and was disappointed to see how we can mismatch people of entirely different characters merely out of hatred/ bias. If you had gone through the next couple of verses in the same chapter in Quran, you would have given a second thought that maybe what you are thinking is wrong ?
Ref: Qur'an 33:52
"It is not lawful for you (to marry other) women after this, nor to change them for other wives even though their beauty attracts you, except those (captives or slaves) whom your right hand possesses. And Allah is Ever a Watcher over all things."

You may say that probably he was satisfied enough with slaves, so he didn't need any other woman. But why does he have to put a restriction on himself, 33:50 was good enough to get hold of any woman ? And see how strong this restriction is; no matter how beautiful some other woman is, you cannot get hold of her. And remember this restriction was to be observed strictly afterwards till the rest of his life because it became a written word of God.

A sex maniac would never ever let that happen.. !! The reference is within the next two verses of the same chapter, not from somewhere else that we argue that he was fed up later in his life, changed his mind and came up with this new verse.
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To Ayesha (contd.)
written by Mark Hill , April 15, 2011
Anyway, it is always a better approach to understand the message that is meant to be conveyed rather than picking up and fighting on some issues of which we have little knowledge. The frame of mind and the intentions of a person become very clear from the message he is conveying. Read the rest of Qur'an, it has more than 6000 verses and we keep fighting on one verse and reject the rest of it merely based on that ?

My understanding of human psychology is that it is not possible for a person to lie his whole life, and yet been able to set the highest standards of moral values for others to follow (which are acclaimed by most of the muslim and non-muslim historians). A person's character starts developing in his teens, and gets mature by the time he reaches thirty. He was known for his two qualities; being truthful and trustworthy, right from his teenage till the time he became prophet (again a well-agreed upon fact by many non-muslim historians). Taking a u-turn at the age of forty by becoming the biggest liar in the history of mankind and then waiting for 18 more years to become a sex maniac (these above verses were revealed when he was around 58, after the battle of Ahzab) does not click in mind. If he had such a plan from his early youth which he carried out smoothly without letting anyone know what's going on, we have to agree that he would have an IQ > 1000 to accomplish that. For those who believe that God does exist, He wouldn't have let that happen, and Muhammad would have been exposed sooner or later. I think the best approach is to study a person is to study his philosophy (Quran) and his lifestyle ourselves. I am pretty sure that most of the people who commented here that it was a very nice article have neither studied Muhammad's life nor read any word of Quran themselves and do not know anything about him besides reading articles from people who have bias against Muhammad.
If you have read about Nietzsche, Hitler claimed to get the inspiration from Nietzsche (times of World War II) to attack Jews and Europe. Later it was discovered that Hitler had never read Nietzsche and Nietzsche's sister had manipulated many of Nietzsche's articles after his death. We cannot merely hate Nietzsche on the basis that his philosophy inspired Hitler. We have to read his philosophy ourselves to judge things. That's what I will request from all of us not to make judgement calls without having knowledge about anything.

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About the book || Reviews by: Steven Simpson | Abul Kasem | Prof Sami Alrabaa | Ibn Kammuna

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