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Will Making Sharia Court Legal in Britain Lead to Child-Marriages amongst British Muslims?

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All signs point to its favor, especially when polygamy, legal under Sharia but banned under the British law, is already widespread amongst British Muslims.


While Sharia law courts have created a lot of controversy in Britain, they would be even more controversial if people found out that Sharia has led to the legalisation of child-marriage in 6 countries. As the vast majority of people seem to be unaware of Sharia's child-marriage dimension, this article as its sources uses mainstream media articles, the UN, a major opinion poll company's Sharia law polling data, and an early biography of Muhammad, which many Muslims say is the most reliable, and which states unequivocally that that Muhammad married one of his wives, 'Aisha, when she was a child.

For example, this 2008 "Times" article about forced child-marriages in Nigeria reveals that there is "fierce resistance" in its mostly Muslim states against a ban on child-marriage, because such a ban is contrary to Sharia. As a result, only one state has agreed to a modified form of the ban (which outlaws marriage to pre-pubescent girls):

So why do Nigerian Muslims support child-marriage?

Sharia is based on "The Koran" and the "Sunnah" (the words and deeds of Muhammad). And according to "Sahih al-Bukhari", regarded by Muslims as the most reliable early biographical notes of their prophet, the founder of Islam had married one of his wives, named Aisha, when she was 6, and consummated the marriage when she was 9 (Bukhari 7:62:64).

The following four reports -- one each by the BBC News, "New York Times", UN, and "Wall Street Journal" -- mention Islamists in Yemen, Niger, and Saudi Arabia, who say that Muhammad's child-bride is the reason why they are in favour of child-marriage:

Child marriage and divorce in Yemen

Tiny Voices Defy Child Marriage in Yemen

NIGER: Where childhood ends on the marriage bed

Cleric Fights Saudi Bid to Ban Child Marriages

The "Views of harsh punishments" section of this 2010 Pew Research poll reveals that most Muslims in Nigeria support 3 grotesque and extremely violent Sharia punishments (stoning adulterers to death, cutting off the hands of thieves and execution of Muslim apostates), and that Muslims in Pakistan, Jordan, and Egypt are even more strongly in favour of those 3 punishments. So, it is not surprising that because of the Sharia law, child-marriages are legal in Muslim countries mentioned above.

Saudi Arabian law is based entirely on the harshest of the Sunni schools of Sharia jurisprudence (the "Hanbali"). So, it is no surprise that as this 2010 "San Francisco Chronicle" article explains that child marriage is still legal in that country, although the Saudi justice minister said in 2009 that the minimum age of marriage should be raised to 18.

Saudi wives can be not only pre-pubescent, but even babies, because Saudi Arabia has no minimum marriage age at all, as this 2008 Associated Press article reveals. It quotes Saudi marriage official Ahmad al-Muabi's opinion that fathers can legally sell their 1-year-old daughters to husbands if they wish.

Moreover, once a Saudi girl or baby has been sold to a husband, she finds it difficult to divorce him because the "San Francisco Chronicle" article pointed out that a Saudi court does not allow a girl younger than 8 years divorce her middle-aged husband.

In another case, reported by BBC, a 12-year-old Saudi girl asked for divorce from her 80-year-old husband to whom she had been sold, but she had to drop the divorce case, because her father wanted her to stay married.

Nor is it a surprise that in Islamic Northern Sudan, 10-year-old girls can legally be sold to a husband by their fathers, as reports this "New Republic" magazine article.

People tend to think of Turkey as a modern secular Muslim country, but the "San Francisco Chronicle" article mentioned above also mentions that Turkey's Islamist government reduced the minimum age for marriage to 12 in 2009. As this Turkish newspaper article discusses, as a result of this change in law, which amounts to legalisation of forced child-marriages, a 12-year-old Syrian girl sold to a middle-aged Turkish husband by her family. Her marriage was consummated (legal rape) and she was forced to take drugs, which led her Syrian family to complain and Turkish police rescued her.

Recently, there have been debates about banning child-marriages in Yemen and it was outlawed in 2009, but because of opposition of Islamists, the ban was overturned after just 1 day, and child-marriages remains legal in Yemen. Yemen's child-brides can be sold to men when they are as young as 8.

Moreover, in Iran, where the minimum marriage age is now 16 for women and 18 for men, Sharia law recently led to the age of consent for girls being 9 within marriage, as this 2006 BBC article explains.

Finally, even when child-marriage is illegal in mostly Muslim countries, Muslims simply ignore the law and marry underage girls. For example, child-marriage is illegal in Afghanistan, but this 2011 "Time" magazine article about Afghan wives being jailed for fleeing violent husbands, says: "Nationwide, more than half of all girls are married before they turn 15, usually to settle disputes."

This "New York Times" article about Afghan child-marriages talks about an 11-year-old girl, who was sold to a 40-year-old man.

So, will the British government’s making Sharia courts legal in Britain lead to Britain's Muslims engage in child-marriages ignoring the British democratic law? After all, as this recent article points out, polygamy, legal under Sharia, is already widespread amongst Muslims in Britain, despite the fact that polygamy is illegal under British democratic law. Polygamy, like the child-marriage, is a product of an extremely male-dominated Sharia culture, in which males have a far higher status than females. There when polygamy is practised widely by British Muslims, child-marriage will also be practised by Britain’s Muslims under various guises, given it’s part of the Sharia.

Comments (57)Add Comment
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written by duh_swami , October 05, 2011
About a year ago, I read where UK had something like 16,000 (Illegal) polygamous marriages and most of them were on welfare...
One thing Muslims do like about dar al-harb is welfare...
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written by Reed Wilson. , October 05, 2011
Islam suggests marriage with mutual consent of spouses. The Qur’an makes this clear: 4:19, 4:3 and mutual agreement can take place when the husband to be and wife to be are both of age: the Qur’an says: حَتَّىٰ إِذَا بَلَغُوا النِّكَاحَ 4:6 at another place it has been explained by saying حَتَّىٰ يَبْلُغَ أَشُدَّهُ

Therefore there is no question of a non adult boy entering nikah nor anyone on behalf of a non adult girl expressing willingness of nikaah : Thus it rules out child marriage or anyone giving consent on behalf of a girl for nikaah:
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written by Reed Wilson. , October 05, 2011
I have heard that Lord Krishna had married more than 16000 wives. I dont know if it is possible.
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written by Reed Wilson. , October 05, 2011
Roddy Newman. Nice article. It would be a tragedy if sharia laws are imposed anywhere and in England.

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Contd.
written by Reed Wilson. , October 05, 2011


Child marriage is in practice in Hindu society also which is a big chunk of world population. It does not mean that the religion suggests that. It is due to ignorance.

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written by duh_swami , October 05, 2011
I have heard that Lord Krishna had married more than 16000 wives. I dont know if it is possible

It is if you are Krishna...

Sharia law is already being practiced in UK...Sharia follows Muslims around...
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written by Reed Wilson. , October 05, 2011
duh_swami. I have heard that Lord Krishna had married more than 16000 wives. I dont know if it is possible. Is that true?
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Reed
written by duh_swami , October 05, 2011
They didn't call him LORD for nothing...
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Reed
written by Buzz , October 05, 2011
Mohammad had a child bride. Why can't his followers emulate him?
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Reed
written by fineliving56 , October 05, 2011
If your obfuscation of Quran in your post is true, what is / Q /al talaq / 4 is talking about?
Wa illa lam yahiddnah ?

BTW…Balago al nikaha means the age, when children reach puberty which is 12 for boys and 11 to 12 for girls,…[ never 9 ] it depend on her first time of her monthly flux .So if 11 and 12 is good age to get married for both sexes and have children and be responsible for them, ..I believe you ….
Who far can you get?
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written by Reed Wilson , October 06, 2011
Buzz. " Mohammad had a child bride. Why can't his followers emulate him?

Emulating means marrying the same child bride. They do not find that child.
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Emulation
written by gsw , October 06, 2011
1. the act of emulating or imitating
2. the effort or desire to equal or surpass another or others

Emulating [does not] mean marrying the same child bride.

However, I do not accept the right of any man to command the body of any woman, no matter how old.
Rise sisters and tell those religious nuts to walk north!
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Emulation
written by gsw , October 06, 2011
1. the act of emulating or imitating
2. the effort or desire to equal or surpass another or others

Emulating [does not] mean marrying the same child bride.

However, I do not accept the right of any man to command the body of any woman, no matter how old.
Rise sisters and tell those religious nuts to walk north until their hats float!
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written by Reed Wilson. , October 06, 2011
gsw. Thank you. It was a joke.

Emulating [does not] mean marrying the same child bride. It depends on the religiousness of emulator.

"However, I do not accept the right of any man to command the body of any woman, no matter how old."

Yes of course. It is mutual. Not even a woman has right to command any body.

Islam suggests marriage with mutual consent of spouses. The Qur’an makes this clear: 4:19, 4:3 and mutual agreement can take place when the husband to be and wife to be are both of age: the Qur’an says: حَتَّىٰ إِذَا بَلَغُوا النِّكَاحَ 4:6 at another place it has been explained by saying حَتَّىٰ يَبْلُغَ أَشُدَّهُ
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written by Reed Wilson. , October 06, 2011
Islam suggests marriage with mutual consent of spouses. The Qur’an makes this clear: 4:19, 4:3 and mutual agreement can take place when the husband to be and wife to be are both of age: the Qur’an says: حَتَّىٰ إِذَا بَلَغُوا النِّكَاحَ 4:6 at another place it has been explained by saying حَتَّىٰ يَبْلُغَ أَشُدَّهُ
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written by Reed Wilson. , October 06, 2011
GSW. Thank you. My post for you is under review. It will appear. If not, I will post it elsewhere and will request you to find.
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Reed
written by duh_swami , October 06, 2011
Islam suggests marriage with mutual consent of spouses.

That's right, Islam 'suggests', it and then encourages something else... 'Consent' means different things to different people...
'Consent' can be manufactured...Consent is an ability not afforded to children in Islam, or other places...Adults are in charge and it does not matter if the child consents or not, they 'will' do as they are told regardless...So, in Islam, child brides, have no 'consent', when there father sells them off, it does not matter if she consents or not. She is going home with the 56 year old Abu, her hubby...Most Islamic countries have a reasonable marriage age, around 16...But that is a government edict and not Islam...
There is no minimum age of child brides, even infants can be married off (I doubt that happens very often)...Mohammad set the example at 6, and intercourse no earlier than 9...Muslims, who choose to emulate Mohammad in all his way's, may or may not have child brides, but they will always entertain the idea...
There are two basic reasons that Abu may want a child bride...One is he may just wan't a life long servant to do all the heavy lifting and cater to his every wish...and/or he is just a nasty old man who wants to play with little girls...No matter what, love, and respect don't enter the picture, and neither does consent...If love and respect were involved, Abu would not marry the child to begin with...
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Reed
written by duh_swami , October 06, 2011
In response to 'consenting spouses'...I notice you omitted the part about consenting 'adults'...

The administrator ate my post about 'consent' and child brides...So I will just say in short that consent can be manufactured and does not always mean what it seems...
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10,11,13,14, years muslim prides …15 is already over the hill
written by fineliving56 , October 06, 2011
I remember my grandmother telling me in my younger years her story of her arranged marriage…it made me question the quality of muslim women lives, even then.
She told me, she was asked for her hand, from her father, by my grand father when he was about 30 years old and she was 10. She never laid an eye on him until her wedding night, when she was 11 ….she was married and her consent was just, her *SILENCE* as all Shaiks say is sufficient enough and was allowed By Muhammad.

She told me, when she was led by her husband to their room, she was terrified and she could not voice it, fearing her father. When her Husband closed the door of their bed room on them, he started on long speech of obedience that she needs to pay close attention to. My grandmother was fine with that until, he led her behind the door and he showed her a 4 feet thick wooden stick and he said this:
''You see this stick…I vow I will break this stick on your back if you ever disobey me''..of course,she said yes …

I will never forget what she told me next…she told me …he never had her affection after that.
I might have told my grandmother story before ..but this I thought it is fitting for the laughable assumption that a child of 11, can give a consent for marriage …no way ..an 11 year old girl does not have the maturity to know better and her father should have been jailed for doing that to her.
You really have to be completely sold out to defend this type aggression on girls, Reed is one of them …

I guess they do not care for pain of little girls all they care about, is to maintain the lie of Quran .
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Age of consent in Islam
written by Tuth seeker , October 07, 2011
Aisha gave happily her consent to bed Mohammad at age 9 when he was a young lad of 53.How charming!!!He nicely groomed her by thighing her for three years prior to that by rubbing his HOLY PENIS between her legs.How lucky to be groomed properly by prophet of Allah.
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Tuth seeker
written by duh_swami , October 07, 2011
According to hadith, Mohammad's devotee's celebrated Mohammad's first time rape of Aisha...They had a party and gave gifts in celebration...How sick is that?
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Truth seeker
written by Buzz , October 07, 2011
Don't forget that Allah gave consent to his darling Prophet to wed his (prophet) own daughter-in-law. How silly! All he thought during his lifetime was sex and war.

Reed, Muslims are emulating their prophet by marrying underage girls. Improve your vocabulary, if you can.
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written by fineliving56 , October 07, 2011
HOW could a grown man try to sleep with a girl who is not developed yet to do that …
A man has to be sick and be rotten to core, to accomplish that act, and call it, marriage to matured and consented girl sanctioned by Q like reed keep repeating.
No ….no sane humen could agree with it …….Quran Q/65/4 sanctioned having sex relation with a child, who did not reached marriage age yet….Muslims just lie.

I wonder, how Muhammad delta with the screams and revers of tears that Aisha, surely would had done do to her young age ….who knows, she might have been silenced with a cloth or tide to the bed to do the deed.
I can't picture... it makes me sick ..I which the subject was different this morning …sigh!!
Many say that the reason Aisha never had children is do to her being ruined by her having sex at 9 years of age.
Nice job Muhammad the leader of the pack ….
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@ Buzz
written by Truth Seeker , October 07, 2011
There was no NIKAH performed between Mohammad and Zainab-his daughter-in-law because she claimed that It was performed by Allah himself in Paradise.Allah certainly is REHMAN and RAHEEM in matters of SEX and SAVAGERY.
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Fineliving
written by aaki , October 07, 2011
Please stop with your insane posts. Just because you are ex Muslim doesn't make you an anybody. The more you write about your family the more I think the osbournes are sane in comparison to your lot.
The Quran does not mention aishas age! Can you quote me the Hadith and it's narration????
Let big gob truth seeker help you!!!
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Smart Aki
written by fineliving56 , October 07, 2011
I did NOT, bring an example from hadeeth... smart ...Aki …can't you read?
Q/65/4 is NOT hadeeth …go back and read my post and see
I know better then to bring a hadeeth example of sick Islam/Muhammad/Quran….I am using Quran to prove Islam is nothing but filth that humanity got stuck with

I am stating the truth eaxatly who every thing happened toy do not like a truth …you do not like to hear about it …tough …do not read it!!!!
The people, who ARE insane, who believe that unlimited virgins for each muslims man, is a thing could come from any God …haha.
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Aaki
written by fineliving56 , October 07, 2011
BTW

Ex Muslim are the product of the failure Of islam
We are the most knowledgeable of the real Islam, not the fake Islam …
only the ignorant and deceivers stay and still could look in the eyes of people with out flinching from shame.
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Aaki
written by fineliving56 , October 07, 2011
I just want to add

Islam's bare TRUTH, hurts to much …doesn't it ?
Sorry for you and other muslim enthusiasts, have to dial with it.
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Fine living
written by aaki , October 07, 2011
WTH are you on about? Here is the truth!
"Lam Yahidna" negates menstruation in the past tense and the jussive mode and means "did not menstruate," with the expectation that the woman should be menstruating, since that natural cycle is part of her normal state.
learn your own language!!!
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Fine living
written by aaki , October 07, 2011
Now half wit apostates like you along with the islamophobes will say:
" lam yahidna" means "has not menstruated yet," with the jussive mode implying the girl is impatient to begin, ensuring that it seems to perpetuate the pre-Islamic practice of having sex with pre-pubescent girls.

Here is the inside scoop fineliving, I couldn't care less on how you islamophobes interpret it! So save your sanctimonius sermon and your insane family stories!!
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Fineliving
written by aaki , October 07, 2011
I hope you have more than just two words and their interpretation.( lam naafia and a fail) for your ranting????
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Learn my Arabic languish!!! …hahaha
written by fineliving56 , October 07, 2011
That is rich!!!
Thank you the laugh….
First of all '' lam yahdinah '' is Wrong word for 65/4….you do not Know Arabic at all ..haha
Lam yahinah means…*not given the guide* ….you wrote it wrong because you do not know Arabic which that is OK…but do not sit their and teach me Arabic …haha

the word you meant to say :

*Lam Yahidnah* comes from root word *heed* which it is another word for *Tamth* all mean women monthly menstrual.
the root word Tamth is , mentioned three times in Quran, like in 55/73, as form of, plural *lam yatmithnah* women who did not have their menstrual yet* when Quran was talking about the virgins that muslim men going to sleep with, for ever ….as you can see Allah promises under age girls even in heaven too …haha

your explanation of 65/4 is laughable …but nice try…

The exact meaning is this:

''Such of your women who have passed the age of monthly courses, for them

the prescribed period TO WAIT [ to divorce them] is three month, AND[THIS

IS WHAT IS IMPORTANT, IT MEANS SIMILAR TO THE FIRST]…

[ TO WAIT TO DIVORCE GIRLS WHO DID NOT HAVE HER FLOX YET …

IN ONTHER WORDS …

IT MEANS *THE GIRLS USED TO BE ,MADE TO GET MARRIED AND

DIVORCE UNDER AGE] .

ALLAH WAS TRYING TO EXPLAIN TO THE *DIMWITS MUSLIMS* THAT THEY

HAVE, TO WAIT THREE MONTH TO DIVORCE A PRE MENSTRUAL GIRLS,

WHO, DID NOT HAVE THIER MENSTRUAL MONTHLY FLUX YET .

and all that means, Allah SANCTIONED the continues of the practice of marring under age girls just like before islam, the pagans used to do, but had some rules as to how to go about to doing it …in case of divorce.

NOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND AKI MAN ???….

I have nothing against you ... I have every thing to be angry with ……..Islam

Your Quran needs to be destroyed …to save girls who are still married off at age of 9 in Yemen and Saudi Arabia.
That is my gaol is to try to save girls from benign ruined for life..
What are you doing about these Muslim girls …aki ??
do you have little girls? ..aki



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Aki
written by Buzz , October 07, 2011
Fineliving, Aki is probably an Indian or Pakistani Muslim, who holds Arabs in high esteem. Subcontinent Muslims don't mind giving their underage daughters to their Arab masters.
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Aki
written by Buzz , October 08, 2011
Fineliving, Aki is probably an Indian or Pakistani Muslim, who holds Arabs in high esteem. Subcontinent Muslims don't mind giving their underage daughters to their Arab masters.
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written by Reed Wilson , October 08, 2011
Sorry Buzz. Your claim "Aki is probably an Indian or Pakistani Muslim, who holds Arabs in high esteem. Subcontinent Muslims don't mind giving their underage daughters to their Arab masters" is not fact. It is rather contrary to facts.

Indo Pak Muslims rather despise Arabs. Arabs also dont have affinity for them. They have vast difference of beliefs also. No inter marriages among them.
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Fine living
written by aaki , October 08, 2011
Go back and look at my posts carefully.
I did not write "lam yahdinah ''
I wrote lam yahidnah
read again and then come back!
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Buzz
written by duh_swami , October 08, 2011
"Aki is probably an Indian or Pakistani Muslim,

He's a Yorkshirian...from the occupied territory of Yorkshire...He probably imagines himself a Sunni...
Like most of the invader crusaders, he spends a lot of time on leftist and super paranoid web sites, where he picks up all kinds of strange ideas...Some of them he posts here, but he is seldom able to verify anything...
I think he should pray more, maybe double up to ten times a day...His head is full of nonsense
and he hates just a little too much...more prayer would probably help him...
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aaki
written by fineliving56 , October 08, 2011
So let me see if I understand your translation....

In simple English...Are you saying that ''Lam Yahidnah'' referring to the time adult women, have not had their monthly flux yet, in the very same month that women are being divorced ?
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@aaki
written by Scrutator , October 08, 2011

While reading the Quran, I noticed on THREE OCCASIONS, when Muhammad was in trouble, each time he claimed he had received Allah's message which invariably favoured him !

How very convenient !

The three occasions were when he had screwed one of his wife's slave-girl in that wife's bed, when he had lusted after his adopted son's wife and when he had announced he would stay away from all of his wives for one month.

What must have really happened is that on every one of those instances, Muhammad had thought long and hard about his misdeeds and announced the following morning of yet another of Allah's revelations, favouring him ! He was safe in the knowledge none of his followers would dare question or oppose him ! THIS EXPLANATION SURELY STANDS UP TO REASON, DOESN'T IT ?

Therefore, cut out all the crap about the Quran and the funny letters which precede each section !

Look, the bottom line is that there is no Allah, Muhammad conjured him out of thin air and that the Quran is a figment Muhammad's imagination !

IT IS TIME ALL MUSLIMS FREED THEMSELVES OF THE QURAN & ISLAM !


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Scrutator
written by aaki , October 09, 2011
wrote the Quran? That muhammed who was a unlettered person, that muhammed who could only dictate peace treaties, that muhammed who needed help when working the caravans? That muhammed who when recited the Quran people accepted!
He wrote the Quran did he?
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Muhammad was Not illiterate Man…
written by fineliving56 , October 09, 2011
He was not illiterate, like once was believed, he was only pretending somehow to people around him. He needed to say that to show him self to be unable to come up with, all the supposed science and life origin facts[all wrong] in Quran. How else he was going to make believers out of all skeptics around him….he was no dummy.

All the things that we find all wrong in Quran, has to have looked like, out of this world miracles, to people who lived 1400 years back….
There is many proves of Muhammad's literacy …
hadeeth, Sahih Bukari,
Book 19/ #2993
Book 5/553
Book 7#88 …
And many other, which revealed his literacy,
In each of them, hadeeth says, Muhammad wrote this…Muhammed read that.

What is so nauseating,while...Quran lovers busy dumping the Hadeeth and Sirah under the bus, they still cling to hadeeth facts,[without realizing] ….for example, the non existing illiteracy of Muhammed is NOT mentioned in Quran …I repeat …not mentioned in Quran …

So, how do they say that he was illiterate ?!

Muhammad was mentioned only 5 times by name and each time Allah forgot to mentioned it…forgetful Allah!.

Hypocrisy of Muslim has no bound.




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To Reed Wilson
written by Archpagan , October 10, 2011
The city of Hyderabad in Andhra Pradesh(South-East India) is the hunting ground of Arab Shekhs for child bride. You are welcome to try your luck there. In the medieval era, when there was no easy means of transport, pilgrims from India used to trudge all the way to Mecca to visit K'aba. Most of them were looted and their women raped in and around Mecca. But, instead of lodging complaints with the authority they simply got thrilled over such 'good luck'. I came to know of it from 'Clash of Fundamentalism' by Tariq Ali, the Pakistani Communist leader.

Lord Krishna rescued 16,000 married women from some bandits and restored them to their husbands. But their husbands refused to take them back. Lord Krishna then offered shelter to all of them. But, they wanted some sort of prestige or recognition. So, Lord Krishna married them all . How could that happen? Very easy!He divided himself into 16.000 Krishnas and cohabited with them simultaneously.

Lord Krishna is considered as living God, neither messenger nor reincarnation. His life is described in mythological way imparting spiritual meanings. So, devout Krishna devotees practice celebacy instead of profilgacy.
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written by Reed Wilson , October 10, 2011
Archpagan.Thanks Archpagan.

"The city of Hyderabad in Andhra Pradesh(South-East India) is the hunting ground of Arab Shekhs for child bride. You are welcome to try your luck there"

Thanks again. This kind of hospitality lures Sheikhs. It is economic activity.

"Lord Krishna rescued 16,000 married women from some bandits and restored them to their husbands. But their husbands refused to take them back. Lord Krishna then offered shelter to all of them. But, they wanted some sort of prestige or recognition. So, Lord Krishna married them all . How could that happen? Very easy!He divided himself into 16.000 Krishnas and cohabited with them simultaneously."

It his personal. They say he voyeur also bathing ladies. I have no objection.

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To Reed Wilson
written by Archpagan , October 10, 2011
Hey Reed, It's not personal. Lord Krishna lifted a whole mountain named Govardhan with the little finger of his left hand and held it aloft the city of Brindavan as umbrella in order save the people from the fury of rain God. When you do achieve such feat, think of criticizing Lord Krishna. You can not believe part of a story as true and leave the other part as false.

What about my invitation to try your luck at Hyderabad? Insah Allah you succeed in your effort you can very easily call me SAALA. Perhaps you know SAALA is the most popular word in India. It's both an abuse and an affection depending on your personal equation with the addressee. Its literal meaning is 'wife's brother'.
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written by Machmoed , October 12, 2011
Very easy!He divided himself into 16.000 Krishnas and cohabited with them simultaneously."

It's indeed easy!? Lords can do almost everything.
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written by duh_swami , October 12, 2011
Lords can do almost everything.

Sometimes I wish I was a Lord, then I would be perfect, but I am not Lord so have to struggle along with near perfection...
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@aaki : the Quran was compiled long after Mo's death !
written by Scrutator , October 14, 2011
written by aaki, October 09, 2011
wrote the Quran? That muhammed who was a unlettered person, that muhammed who could only dictate peace treaties, that muhammed who needed help when working the caravans? That muhammed who when recited the Quran people accepted!
He wrote the Quran did he?


I never claimed Mo wrote the Quran -- it was, in fact (if Islamic sources are to be believed) compiled about 50 to 60 years after Mo's death, by which time many of those who had memorised parts of it were either dead or had forgotten what they had learnt ! It was also compiled from bits of leather, parchment and wood which had some of the verses written on them.

All I said was Mo had imagined verses of the Quran (WHICH INVARIABLY FAVOURED HIM, lucky sod !) which his followers from then till now take as Allah's pronouncements.

I had also said he conjured up the idea of an Allah in heaven, for he (rightly) concluded no one would accept if he claimed he was the Almighty One, so he felt conjuring up one was essential.
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Quran was written 60 years after Muhammad death .
written by fineliving56 , October 14, 2011
Of course ! and that begs the Question that valid to be asked!!!

The Question is ?

Why would Quran call it self a book instead of revelation like it should have [ after all it came as revelation not a written book] ??

the possible argument might be, …Allah assumed people going to write it and turn the revelation to a book and that is why in Allah's own words [ supposedly] IT called it a book …
but this argument does not work because it only make Allah sound sloppy and An all knowing Allah would not assume anything about his faulty creation, humans, like Allah always like to remind us .

The only true logical explanation is Muhammad and his gang realized that Quran has to be made to a book to preserve it and called a book as they went and made the whole thing up.
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fineliving56
written by duh_swami , October 15, 2011
Most likely Mohammad needed a 'book', because the 'People of the Book' had one...and he was in competition with them...It just wouldn't do to have the POB's be the only ones with a book...Everyone knows that every great religion has a book, so Mohammad and friends wrote a book to out do all the other books...It is a great work of fiction...and as a book of fiction, it does out do all the others...But it is black fiction suitable only for a horror movie...
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D,Swami
written by fineliving56 , October 15, 2011
Yes, you are right, Muhammad was trying to trump the bible and torah. That competition and jealousy he felt against the established past religions, pushed him to do just about every thing including call the supposed Quran, a book, imitating the other religious books , 60 years before it ever made to a book …

what?….He did not ask him self if muslim might or might not, write it on something he could do anything to insure it is done before his death !!??

What is so funny, the Quran book he is so proud of, first was written on big leaves and stones while in other part of the world people like chains were writing on hand pressed paper …

How pathetic to write the words of God on leaves…and Allah could do nothing about it?…
Allah is powerless to do anything useful or other wise.
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...
written by Dwito , October 15, 2011
It is really a serious question. Why Quran was not written for such a long time. Over three decades or more. Writing was not unknown that time. It was a rich civilization by then. Public education system was on full throttle. People were more educated than after (under his tenure). Mo himself was a dropout. Then why didn't he write it?

They say, after the revelation, Mo was invited to a scholarly debate in Mecca. There he was asked some question and the futile answers made the eminent scholars rebuke him to madness. The scolding was so drastic that drove him crazy and forced him to consider even self destruction. How was the debate possible without a written document? Did mo recite those enormous verses in a single meeting? Were those wise personalities allowed themselves to such a long madding pronunciations for over days? The size of the Quran (primary version) is not possible to complete within a short period.
Rather the more possible conclusion would be Quran was written. And the experience leaded clever mo to destroy the written parchments to fool his followers. Written things make man argumentative. Mo obviously didn't deserve logical thinking companions. That’s why his close friends were not intelligent scholars like all other great kings of history. Rather his life was a gang leaders who better preferred idiotic musclemen and thugs.
He opposed a very popular game of logical mind. Chess. Why? Simple. He was afraid of educated argumentative intelligent minds. He feared logic. He feared curiosity. He feared question. He feared light. He feared exposer. He banned fine arts, sculptures, culture, song, and storytelling (except his own versions). All because of just one thing. He knew his treachery. And like every chit, he was always scared of being caught. And being a clever nut, he carefully killed all these exposing possibilities. The free thinking apparatus, education, self judgment abilities.

So Qu’ran was NOT not written. Quran was carefully hidden, from exposer. Otherwise, how an only bunch of holy scriptures left uncared to be eaten up by an animal? If it was supposedly kept by true devotees?

Aki, do you have any answer?
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Dwito
written by fineliving56 , October 15, 2011
The Religion teachers and it is written in Islamic history books we studied when I was a student, Quran was memorized [ supposedly] instantly by a group of Muslims called al hafizeen [ the memorizers] and were always hanging around Muhammad waiting for more revelation[lol] and were described as they do never changed a ward of what Muhammad said.
The reason for writing the Quran on leaves and what not, is because the original Hafezeen were dyeing off on Muhammad and on his followers after his death and the fear of losing it or changing it presented it self. [It amazing how, no one thought about write until it was needed.]
when Muslims did write it, deferent sicts and groups wrote defernt Qurans and othman ben Afan the third Kaliefa traveled all over and found out about deferent Qurans were popping all over the Al omma al Islamiah so he gathered them and ordered the burning of all of, and he rewrote the Quran That same Quran we see today is the same Quran He put together.
The reason for his assassination was because he did that , the followers of Ali eben Abe taleb, the fourth kalifah did not like that, also the people who did memorize the Quran thought it was a travesty that he burned the Qurans that they wrote.
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...
written by Dwito , October 16, 2011
Fineliving, we all read similar story. because Mo manufactured that for his purpose. but my thinking was of pre-kinghood obtained period. when he just started preaching. He could not had have those hafizeens at that initial stage. it's just an idea. but who recorded the starting revelations? nobody but himself. and then destroyed. we just can make a logical deduction. the certain proofs have gone forever.
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2 Finelivings
written by Machmoed , October 18, 2011
and he rewrote the Quran That same Quran we see today is the same Quran He put together.

Well finelivings, that's their claim. When you study the case you will find that this codex of his, is nowhere to be found. It doesn't exist and it might never have existed. What they did find are several codexes from begin 8th century till the midth of 9th century. Now here it is, they all are different. There isn't one mashaf the same to the other. Words and even sentences contain different words. I have to admit that the meaning isn't totally different but words are. This surely is enough to know and to testify that Qur'an we have today is NOT the litterally word of Allah. That would be lying against myself and others. As you know many brainwashed muslims do this lying without knowing it. Maybe then it's not lying. Also many hadith report the events that lead to loss of some verses and sura's and the editing etc etc.

Even their own sources (islamic) is saying all this and more, muslims deny these written islamic events as if Kuffar made them up...or worse the jew did it.

Fact: most muslims don't know what's written or not. They are muslim but their knowledge of islam and other knowledges is way too little.
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Machmoed
written by fineliving56 , October 19, 2011
I was relating what I studied in schools in Islamic history books, we had available. We were never exposed to any other books, I am sure you have read about the non exciting of any evidence of Muslims claims, extensively. There is many reasons to suspect lies and dissipation on the part of Muslim Historians to continue with the biggest lie of all Muhammad and his Quran.
A proof of dissipation and a reason to suspect, is we were made to believe, that when, Uthman bin Afan was an old man of 82, he was faced with opposition from muslims who wanted him to step down from Kaliifa position and to appoint Ali Ibin Abi Talib in a place of him because of his relation to Muhammad and they all blame it, on one man his name was ABid Allah bin Sabah [ A Jewish man from Yemen, who is Acting as Muslim to deceive and spread chaos in islamic world .
Muslim blame Jews for everything even then ..apparently Ali's people did nothing on their own, ONE Jew, created all that hate between the followers of Uthmen's and Ali's …the pure hate still festering to this day …people are still get to be killed because the old age feud between Sunnies and Shiyats.
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to fineliving56
written by Yibel , October 19, 2011
Just wanted to say that i enjoy your family stories very much and your information about Islam. By providing personal insights into how Islam has affected the lives of real people in today's world helps to enlighten us as to the dangers and the tragedy of this political ideology. Please keep up the good work. May the road rise to meet you, may the wind be always at your back, may the sun shine warm upon your face, may you shine forever in His grace, and may the Lord hold you, and yours, in the palm of Hs Hand. An Irish Blessing.
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Yibel
written by fineliving56 , October 19, 2011
You must be an Irish to pray in Irish blessing…

Well, thank you for your heart worming prayer and it really did worm my heart.
I hope, the road we are going through, eliminated with the magnificent sun that shines on our faces, and wind of love on all our backs and I hope we shine in The glow of the illusive but loving power of our higher being who hold us in the palms of this wonderful universe we are part of.

peace the you, friend.

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