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With the Islamists’ Rise to Power, Turkey Became the World’s Leading Hotspot of Honour Killings

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To educated Muslims, honor killing has nothing to do with Islam and Turkey is the only "role model" Islamic country, because in all other Muslim countries, honor killing occurs. Unfortunately, after the Islamists came to power in 2002 and opened the gates of gradual Islamization of Turkey, after 8 decades of strict secular rule, Turkey has risen to be the world's "number one honor killing country", with a killing rate 5 times higher than that of Pakistan, known to be notorious for honor killing.


The Quran and hadiths prohibit adultery, apostasy, fornication, and homosexuality etc. And Muslim societies, since the days of Prophet Muhammad, have punished such offenders, normally by killing them, in perfect harmony with sanctions of the Quran, Sunnah and the Sharia.

Victims of Islam's honor violence


Taliban honor killing of young lovers
Gruesome video: People with weak hearts and heart ailments
must not watch

honor killing Ameneh-Bahrami-Iran-acid-attack-victim
Haseena-Hussain-acid-attack -- honor killing victim
Fakhra-acid-attack-victim-pakistan
aira-liaqat-acid-attack-victim Bashiran-Bibi-acid-attack-victim

In civilized societies, these are not deemed crimes, because those actions do not directly harm another person, whatsoever. The rationale for punishing such offenders in Muslim societies (and in some others) has been that adultery brings shame to the husband and to the offender’s family; apostasy from Islam insults to the Islamic faith or to the Muslim community; etc. And to wipe out such shame and insult, the offenders are killed, generally by family members – frequently the father, brothers and husband, with the mother and sisters often joining in.

Stoning to death, lashing (which frequently leads to death), shooting to death and mob-lynching are common methods of honor violence. The victims are even buried alive in some cases. In countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan and Bangladesh, those targeted for honor violence by husbands and jilted male lovers are frequently burned and disfigured by throwing acids at them.

With Muslim immigrants, the tradition of killing such offenders also came to the West. Muslim immigrants have committed such extra-judicially killings in countries of Europe, America, Canada, and Australia in recent years. Authorities in Western countries have long ignored such killings, which Muslim communities have often passed on as suicides. As the Muslim populations swelled in the West with increasing religiosity, frequency of such extra-judicial killings in Muslim communities also increased to such an extent that authorities could not ignore those killings any more. And adamant against linking any negativity to the religion of Islam, they coined the term "honor killing" to classify this brand of grievous crimes as something cultural.

Islamic countries, under pressure to observe the rule of law and human rights of their citizens from the UN and Western countries in recent decades, also cannot pass on such extra-judicial killings as a part of their religious affair or as their societal norm any more. So, Human Rights Organizations, more watchful than ever of the violations of human rights around the world, also record and classify these extra-judicial murders as honor killing.

Honor killing doesn’t occur in Islamic societies alone. Some 15,000 individuals, mostly women, are honor-killed worldwide every year. And nearly 90% of them occur in Muslim communities. Since Muslims constitute about 20% of the world population, they are 40-45 times more prone to honor killing than non-Muslims.

Pakistan, Afghanistan, Jordan, Syria, and other Arab Islamic countries are the leading hotspots of honor-killings in the Muslim world. Recently disposed dead-bodies of a 15-year-old boy and 12-year-old girl, burned with acid, were recovered from a wasteland in the Ghazni province of Afghanistan. The young couple – apparently lovers – were suspected of being killed in honor violence, because the deeply religious Afghan society does not approve romantic relationships between unmarried men and women in consonance with the Quran’s prohibition of fornication. When this story was posted in islam-watch.org, Muslims quickly attempted to distance the religion of Islam from the horrible crime. One reader commented:

"There is nothing like this behavior that is condoned in Islam and to try and insinuate such is a crime itself, and shameful. Maybe if the parents did their job bring up their kids they would not have ventured down that path, but the parents themselves are obviously disturbed individuals who should be punished by the law."

See how these deceptive Muslims contradict nakedly. He claims that Islam doesn’t approve the punishment, and immediately he says, it’s a punishable crime, but the young couple’s parents should have been punished, not them. He does not only contradict himself, he also wants to play God over Allah, who commands punishment to fornicators themselves, not their parent.

Yet other Muslims, to distance Islam from such barbaric crimes, would say "Afghanistan is hardly the "role model" [Islamic country]."

And if you ask back, which is a "role model" Islamic country, they will answer: "Turkey", with the addendum: "Even though it’s secular but Muslim none the less!"

So, Turkey is a “role model” Islamic country, but contradictorily a "secular" one; and no honor killing happens there.

Is that so? Not quite!

In fact, according to the Turkish Government figures, after the Islamists rose to power in 2002, rate of honor killings in Turkey increased at alarmingly fast in the deeply religious segments of the Turkish society, turning Turkey into a leading country afflicted by honor killings. After the current ruling Islamist party, the AKP, came to power in 2002, reports Christian Science Monitor (CSM), honor killings increased "14 folds" over the next 7 years. There were 66 cases of honor killings in 2002, which rose 953 in the first seven months of 2009.

In Pakistan, notorious for honor killing, Human Rights Commission of Pakistan recorded 943 cases of such killings in 2011, and about 100 less in 2010. That means Turkey had about double the number of honor killings in 2009 as compared the number honor-killed in Pakistan in 2011. Given Pakistan has a population of 177 million as compared to Turkey’s 75 million, Turkey has an honor-killing rate, which is greater than 5 times higher than that of Pakistan. So, undoubtedly, Turkey is the number one country in the world in terms of total number of honor killings happening every year, and its honor-killing rate is also nearly at the top amongst all countries in the world.

A few incidents of honor killing in Turkey

1) Girl, 18, stoned to death along with her unborn child: We have recently published an unreported incident of honor killing in a remote village in Turkey, described by the victim’s sister. The victim, 18, fell in love with a boy in the neighborhood and became pregnant. When she confided the matter with her loving father, hoping he would arrange for her marriage with the boyfriend. The father, angered by her shameful action, brought her to the Imam of the local mosque, and she was stoned to death along with her unborn child as per advice of the Imam.

2) Girl, 16, buried alive for talking to boys: In December 2010, according to reports by BBC, The Guardian and other news outlets, a 16-year-old girl in Turkey was buried alive by members of her family in the family garden for bringing shame by being friendly with boys. Her hands were tied on her back, and post-mortem found large amount of soil in her lungs and stomach.

3) Father Shot dead his gay son: According to CNN, a father, named Yahya, shot dead his 26-year-old son Ahmet Yildiz, a physics student, in Istanbul, for bringing shame to the family by being a gay. The killing inspired a movie, named “Zenne”, released in January this year.

The "Campaign Against Honour Killings In Turkey” Website has a list of real-life honor killing incidents in Turkey:

  1. 23 year old Rukiye Küçükbirer was killed by her brother returning from military service because it was alleged that she had a relationship with her brother-in-law.
  2. Waterpolo teacher Müjgan Albayrak, divorced from her husband, was shot by her brother whilst she was dining with her boyfriend.
  3. Hülya Yakar was killed by her 11 year old son because she went out a lot.
  4. Cezvet Murat killed two of his sisters, Ayten Murat and Gülten Söylemez, because they came home late and he decided that they were prostitutes.
  5. Pregnant Ayse Tarhan was stabbed to death by her husband Behman Tarhan because he suspected that she was having an affair. After killing her he separated her flesh from her bones and then buried in the stove…
  6. A 17 year old woman, Yurdagül Ayaz, 8 months pregnant with twins was killed by 30 knife wound. She was found in the local cemetery with the knife in her vagina. Before her death, her father Hanife Ayaz (62 years old) chained her in his basement to make her to marry a man she did not love. She was supposedly in love with her cousin and married him but after the marriage he forced her into prostitution and was arrested by the police. Five days later she was found dead. It all happened in Gaziantep.

For more cases, click Some real life stories.

Poor Human Rights records, prominent amongst them is the violence against women, has been a roadblock to Turkey’s desire for entering the European Union. As honor violence started flourishing after the AKP-led Islamists came to power in 2002, the government was forced to form a parliamentary committee in 2005 for investigating the underlying reasons for the high rates of honor killing violence in the deeply religious south-east Anatolian religion of Turkey.

New measures undertaken by the government to stem the rising tide of honor killings in Turkey, seemed to have some impact, as fathers or family members, fearing legal punishments should they honor kill offenders, started encouraging the women to kill themselves so as to relieve the families of the dishonor caused by them. (see Women told: 'You have dishonoured your family, please kill yourself')

Nonetheless, the recommendations of the committee and the measures undertaken obviously didn't work as the rate of honor killings has kept rising higher than ever. Where Islamists come, Islam must come too, irrespective of you call it a secular country or whatever.

--

M A Khan is the author of Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism and Slavery.

Comments (45)Add Comment
0
Great Article
written by Kisan , April 10, 2012
Well done to M.A.Khan for highlighting the growth of 'honor killings' that are so intricately linked with the practice of Islam...
0
......
written by Salladin , April 10, 2012
These victims are unfortunate to be born in a backwarded (read islamic) society. Those who did it are monsters...uhh i mean muslims of the worst kind.
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@Kisan
written by Editor, M A Khan , April 10, 2012
Thanks. Honor killing is the most horrible reality Muslim women have to suffer.

With religiosity rising amongst Muslims -- both in the Islamic world and the West -- Muslim women are becoming victim of this horrendous barbarism in ever increasing numbers.

As concerns Turkey, even I was shocked by the extent it has pervaded the Turkish society within the short period after Islamists took power.
0
...
written by vbv , April 10, 2012
Honor killing is rampant and accepted in islam, but not exclusive to islam. Today under the influence of islam and its practices ,you will a few cases of socalled "honor-killing" amongst hindus also in India. This, however , has no religious sanction or anything that has been prescribed by the scriptures ( though it must also be said that no one follows the hindu scriptures wholly or substantially , as it is so vast and there are so many strands among them that it becomes a complex and confusing issue). But certainly the concept of "honor killing" is alien to Indian/Hindu culture and imported from islam which pervaded this country for nearly 800 years. What I am driving at is to show how this monotheistic poison corrupts other civilisations and cultures with their bogus piety and holier than thou attitudes.
0
why not honor killing for against the people who dishonor women ?
written by HARKAT UL JIHAD EI KAFIROON , April 10, 2012
why not honor killing for against the people who dishonor women ?
0
Islam the religion of misogyny
written by Walter Sieruk , April 10, 2012
What a cruel and evil religion Islam is. The male Muslims have proven that by their own actions against females. In both thee "honor killings" and the acid attacks shows Islam to be a misogynist religion not only in doctrine but also in pracitce.
Some imams and mullahs acutally make the claim that Islam respects women. The above article shows such a claim to be false. It also shows such a claim to to nothing more then a lie and a hoax.
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M a khan
written by Rzq , April 10, 2012
There is no honour in so called honour killings.
The issue of honour killings have come to light because of the current ruling party.
More transparency and more education in women's rights. If you bothered to read the Christian science monitor report you quote only the too paragraph and neglect the rest.
"“We know that violence against women has been a longstanding bleeding wound of the society,” Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan told a convention last month on the eve of International Women’s Day. “It is being reflected by the media as a growing issue when it is simply the hidden and unspoken truths being uncovered.”
Since 2006, police officers have undergone training to combat violence against women, and now a specialized domestic violence police unit is being set up. Penal and civil codes were changed in 2004 and 2005 to increase sentences for honor killers.

Meanwhile, amendments to the family protection law currently in parliament will for the first time allow judges to impose restraining orders in relation to non-married couples.

“More women know their rights, people are more aware than before, and for the last five years police have been trained in these issues,” says Meltem Agduk, United Nations Population Program Coordinator for Turkey.

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M a khan
written by Rzq , April 10, 2012
Can you please tell the readers where and when is honour killings sanctioned in Islam! Chapter and verse would be good??
0
rzq
written by malem , April 10, 2012
Your request for him to point out a verse that sanctions such behavior is an impossible task, as he is well aware that this behavior is not sanctioned and is prohibited in Islam. Much like the old fairy tale of "72 virgins" if you tell a lie enough times, you begin to believe it is true, quite sad especially given the author claims to be an 'expert" on Islam
0
Malem
written by Rzq , April 10, 2012
I know malem. If they perpetuate a lie often enough in the islamophobic blogosphere you will have idiots assuming its true.
0
killing their own offspring...
written by 1proudkaffur4life , April 10, 2012
If honor-killing is NOT sanctioned in the Quoran, then the practice ALONE is just another proof that Islam and Sharia-Law can NOT prevent from such VILE customs to take place. How can Islam bring forth the "best society" if such heinous crimes happens. And how could Imams allow such a thing to grow over the CENTURIES in their societies? It is not so that it is a recent development. As the "Draw Mohamed Day inventor Molly Norries found out, go against anything in Islam, you can loose your life (in her case she had to give up her life and identity). So if Islam is so HARSH against anything it deems UNISLAMIC and make great efforts to STOP it, why not so in this case? But IF the Imams ORDER the killings, then the question arises, if these people mislead their own "brothers of faith" why do Muslims NOT chase them out of their mosques?

It should be very EASY for Muslims in Turkey to stop this practice. It is not the "Unbelievers" job to proof if this is sanctioned in the quoran, but that of Muslims. The question is if the victim is FIRST declared a "APOSTATE" then killing her is very much sanctioned in the quoran. Muslims all over the world should put pressure on their "brothers of faith" were these crimes take place. Muslims ( and I speak to those here as well) have the duty to stop such crimes. You could f.e. flood the Turkish embassies all over the world with the demand that such crimes should be stopped. It is not the "Unbeliever" who condemns this practice who is the "problem" but the "faithful Muslim" who allowed his religion to be so twisted that he would kill even his own children. Therein lies the problem, and not with the "unbelievers".
0
Islamic Law
written by Yibel , April 10, 2012
A standard Islamic legal reference, certified by Al-Azhar, the chief center of Islamic and Arabic learning in the world, not only says one can kill one's children or grandchildren with impunity; impunity also extends to a Muslim who kills a non-Muslim, and to non-Muslims who kill apostates from Islam:

From page 583-584 of The Reliance of the Traveller/Umdat Al-Salik:

o1.2 The following are not subject to retaliation:
1. a child or insane person, under any circumstances...
2. a Muslim for killing a non-Muslim;

3. a Jewish or Christian subject of the Islamic state for killing an apostate from Islam...

4. a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring's offspring;

After examining Muhammad's hadiths about women, the great muslim scholar al-Qurtuby writes:
"A woman may be likened to a sheep (even) a cow or a camel... for all are ridden." (Tafsir al-Qurtubi v.15, p.172)

Therefore, killing and beating women is no different than how Muslims treat their livestock. Even bestiality is sanctioned because women are no different than animals. However, men are divine and are worshipped, just as Muhammad is considered to be perfect, therefore, divine.

Muslim males are self-worshippers - the worst kind of shirk.
0
Proud kaffir
written by Rzq , April 10, 2012
2012-I think 30 imams in the USA declared an edict declaring that honour killing is unislamic

2012- the canadian imams followed suit

2011- 40 Islamic scholars from Pakistan declared that honour killings unislamic.
There are loads of links to the work being done at grass roots. Unfortunately the message has not filtered into far out places yet.

http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/ the_death_of_aqsa_parvez_should_be_an_interfaith_call_t
o_action/

0
I am not a muslim.
written by safa , April 10, 2012
But this is false propaganda. You can not stone to death anyone in Turkey. I am living in Turkey and I know how thing is going on here. Trust me.

Most people do not evet practice Islam in western parts of Turkey.

In Eastern parts most of kurdish people still live in dark ages. they may commit this kind of inhumane actions.
0
P kaffir
written by Rzq , April 10, 2012
Here is what the Turkish authorities are doing to stamp out honour killings.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/2011/0414/Turkey-grapples-with-spike-in-honor-killings
0
Stoning in Sharia
written by 1proudkaffur4life , April 10, 2012
from :

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/2011/0414/Turkey-grapples-with-spike-in-honor-killings

“Laws have been made but they are not being applied,” says Canan Gullu, chairwoman of the Turkish Association of Women’s Federations. “Police stations don’t work as they should and there are not enough safe houses for women.”
The government passed a law in 2005 recommending that municipalities with more than 50,000 people should have a women’s shelter. Few have paid attention to the vaguely worded, noncompulsory legislation, and so far only 65 are operating, compared to the 1,400 that would exist with proper implementation.

[...]

“A lot of the honor killings in Istanbul are being committed by people who moved from villages in the southeast,” says Vildan Yirmibesoglu, head of Istanbul’s Human Rights Council. “Women who didn’t previously go out on the streets are part of community life in a way they didn’t used to be. They want to study to go to school and to express themselves, and families don’t approve of this.”

Quote End]

The point Muslims do NOT seem to get here: This is happening in the BEST society your stoned-gawd could produce, he called the Muslims the best, because they adhere to his laws and believe in him! And HE gave also the laws to create the "best" society. In fact if Islam is really the best society then Turkey would not even need ONE Woman-Shelter because such crimes would not take place. NONE AT ALL! Do you really think that Leaders in Turkey who ordered the stoning will stop because some Imams in the West say so? Not if the Sharia is supporting it. If "stoning" is "Un-Islamic" how come the "great Islamic Scholars" for 1300 years have not SAID so? Only in our time they reached that conclusion on the pressure and criticisms by the "unbelievers" in the West? And if the far away places did not get the message is this not another indication that humans make their own "religion" and claim it to be inspired by their stoned gawd? I'd be more impressed if 50.000 MALE Muslims in Saudi-Arabia Pakistan/Turkey at a gathering would demand that this practice would be stopped AND that Imams Police and others would PUNISH the culprits.
But as long as "Sharia" which allows/demands these "punishments" is in force all these efforts will be in vain, after all Muslims would have to discard portions of their gawds laws.

Aceh in Indonesia passed 2009 a law enforcing Sharia Law which includes stoning, search as I might I could not find any news that these Laws were at a later date removed, and they might still be in force as I type this.

No I need Islam and its laws like I would need AIDS or HERPES.
0
P kuffar
written by Rzq , April 10, 2012
Matey who gives Monkeys what you think???
Times are changing deal with it!!
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1proudkaffur4life
written by Malem , April 10, 2012
Your right, religion cannot prevent henious acts if the people do not follow the tenants of that religion. Look at the west, capital of the world of murdrs, apparently no one is following Christianity since that is the major religion there. Unless using your logic it is the cause of those acts.
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@Safa -- living a lie
written by Editor, M A Khan , April 10, 2012
It's seems patriotism and good name of your country has taken over embracing truth in you. These are not propaganda, definitely not by enemies of Turkey. If at all, it is propaganda of your government, the current government. The figures of 953 honor-deaths were obtained from government records. And failing to deny that fact, your prime minister even tried to put the blame elsewhere, by saying:
"We know that violence against women has been a longstanding bleeding wound of the society,” Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan told a convention last month on the eve of International Women's Day. “It is being reflected by the media as a growing issue when it is simply the hidden and unspoken truths being uncovered."
0
@Rzq
written by Editor, M A Khan , April 10, 2012
Can you please tell the readers where and when is honour killings sanctioned in Islam! Chapter and verse would be good??
Honor violence and killing is a Western name of what has been traditional Islamic killing in Muslim societies from the days of Muhammad, directed by the Quran, Sunnah and Sharia.

If you have read the article, you should have understood that these are basically Quran-inspired violence and killings for apostasy, adultery, fornication, homosexuality, and disobedience of females etc. What the Westerners gave the name of honor violence are nothing but Quranic/Sharia violence.
0
Stoning in Sharia 2
written by 1proudkaffur4life , April 11, 2012
The Issue here primarily are not the problems of the West, the issue is Islam, and the "customs/laws" this religion has developed over the centuries, based on the "traditions" and sayings of the profeet Muhammad. You Muslims want to spread this BEST SOCIETY TO all corners of the globe, and yet it is not "better" than what we already have! If the traditions of the profeet are not trustworthy why follow them?

As to criminals where did YOUR STONED-GAWD allah in the NEW TESTAMENT of the Bible say to kill and stone adulterer? Looks to me your stoned-gawd changes his mind every so often, after all he claimed to have sent Moses, who also advised stoning as penalty, then Jesus came with "who is without sin throw the first stone" in effect "abrogating" allahs word given to Moses, and then some centuries later he changes yet again, reestablishing stoning as a penalty once more. I guess the passage "those who are without sin, throw the first stone" is one instance of how the NT message of Jesus was "corrupted" by these evil Christians because they did not want to kill their own daughters/children. Also it is your quoran designating the Islamic society to be the BEST of all humankind, so if the best society is just as crime-ridden or more then the "unbelievers" then why should we follow Islam?

Now if a "Christan" kills his daughter and claims that his "god" ordered him to do so, then in our society he is a criminal and NOT ONLY will he be PUNISHED in prison but also sent to a mental institution, because he heard some voices in his head! Yet if a Muslim who either kill the daughter or sister then he has RESTORED the honor of his family. There is a BIG difference in how SOCIETY at large responds to the crime. You will not see 50.000 People demanding the release of a GUILTY killer in the West, like one could witness last year in Pakistan, after a "devout" Muslim killed a Christian politician. This criminal is regarded a HERO in his society! So how does this killer differ from those who killed Buddhists in southern Thailand or Boko Haram and all the others?
0
Khan
written by Malem , April 11, 2012
Please point to the verse or surah that directs one to "Honor violence and killing is a Western name of what has been traditional Islamic killing in Muslim societies from the days of Muhammad, directed by the Quran, Sunnah and Sharia." What you fail to see, as many outsiders do, is that Tradition is much different than what is Directed by the Quran. Tradition are things that have been incorporated in Sharia, but Allahs words are not tradition they are clear and in detail in the Quran. As in other posts, you are not providing any proof that the Quran directs or allows this behavior.
0
@Malem
written by Editor, M A Khan , April 11, 2012
The Quran is complete and perfect guide of life for Muslims -- this is first thing you Muslims will say while doing dawa to an unsuspecting kuffar. The Quran itself says it's book of guide to Muslim in numerous repetition. So, for Muslims, nothing -- whether tradition, culture or habits -- are outside the realm of Islam/Quran. Killing apostates and homosexuals are ordered by the Quran; killing adulterers are recommended by the Sunnah and a missing Quranic verses that was eaten up by a goat; punishing fornicators and disobedient wife etc. are ordered by the Quran. Honor violence include just these violence and killings grouped together, nothing else. So, they are perfectly Islamic and Quranic.
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Thank you
written by Malem , April 11, 2012
Thank you for confirming there is indeed nothing related to honour killings or and directive of such in the Quran. Your insuation that somehow Culture and Habits are not outside of the Quran, explains why you have taken the stance you have. However that stance is wrong, Habits, Culture etc.. are external to the Quran and not the word of Allah, thus would not be part of Islam. I was not aware that a verse was eaten by a goat, if you could let me know which one that would helpful. Thank you.
0
Malem shows his ignorance again and again.
written by Salladin , April 12, 2012
However that stance is wrong, Habits, Culture etc.. are external to the Quran and not the word of Allah....

Why are you a liar Malem? Ka'ba, tawaaf, marwah and safaa etc etc. are all habits and culture of the arabs way before Muhammad came on stage. You're so full of it. Did Jesus, moses etc etc. pray towards ka'ba? did they perform the paganistic hadj etc. NO! These elements are rooted in the culture of polytheistic arabs where Allah was the chief God and the lord of ka'ba. Muhammad just threw other Gods and made Allah the chief to be the only God.
0
.....
written by Salladin , April 12, 2012
However that stance is wrong, Habits, Culture etc.. are external to the Quran and not the word of Allah, thus would not be part of Islam.

Yeah! Malem is true. Hadj (running between marwa and Safaa etc), fasting and worshipping Allah (Chief God and lord of the ka'ba) should not be done because it was a habit and culture of the paganistic/polytheistic arabs way before Muhammad came on stage. Qur'an should not contain these elements. Right Malem? Thanx again!
0
Salad
written by Malem , April 12, 2012
Still avoiding the original point eh? I guess if you cannot admit you were wrong you try and deflect, good choice for you in this case. As stated originally there is nothing in the Quran pointing to honour killing, thus trying to say there is would be akin to lying. Your welcome Duh
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Malem
written by Salladin , April 12, 2012
I wasn't talking about honour killings Malem. How come you're ignorant? I know honour killings is not qur'anic. In fact honour killings do not occure where i come from. They ae being expelled as familymemebrship but are not killed. I also know it's not exclusive to muslims. Where did i say there is honour killings in Qur'an. Again Malem, do not lie in the face of your God. Who's lying now Malem. Be ashamed a bit.

Duh is deffinately in your nightmares. You keep mention him. Do you miss him? I do, cause he is a wonderfull inspiration to me and to others. I know he is laughing a great deal seeing and reading our conversations.
0
killing of femals who shamed the "family"
written by 1proudkaffur4life , April 12, 2012
@malem

How much effort do you make to convince your fellow Muslims that killing of girls who might have brought shame to their their families is wrong? The point being, even if we "Unbelievers" misunderstand the Quoran or the Islamic traditions it is not us who ACT upon it. Fact remains that this is happening in ISLAMIC countries (but also in the WEST by Muslims as well) Will you DENY that is HAPPENING? So you shift the focus away from the point that Muslims ARE killing their daughters, again will you DENY that this is taking place? So HOW do go about STOPPING SUCH THINGS in the "BEST" society?

****But how could this "tradition" rise up in the FIRST place and allowed to continue if it is UN-ISLAMIC?**** Where did Islam go wrong if it did not stop this whenever this ugly practice reared its head?

It is "un-islamic to draw pictures of Mohammad as Molly Norries and others found out and all hell broke loose, why not in such cases, why did the Islamic society not got rid of this practice? One would like to think to kill a human being unjustly would be more heinous then drawing a cartoon the VAST MAJORIY of the 1.6 Billions Muslims would never see, after all if they look at the picture they are VIOLATING the rule.
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Salladin
written by Malem , April 12, 2012
It is not part of the Quran rather prohibited, thus is not Allowed in Islam and not part of Islam. Hopefully that clears things up for you. My statement was that there is nothing in the Quran pointing to honour killing, thus trying to say there is would be akin to lying. So I didnt say you had stated it was in the Quran, I asked you to point where it says it is allowed, you coudl not, thus proving my point it is not Islamic. Thank you again!
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Malem
written by Salladin , April 12, 2012
You're mistaken Malem. I never had a conversation with you on the issue, so stating that you asked me about it is false. Are you sure it was me, cause you assumed also i was Duh. Would you show me where you asked it? I appreciate it if you did, cause i don't recall you asked me that or that i ever had a conversation with you about it. You see Malem, i'm not allowed to lie even if you might think that. I'm waiting!
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salladin
written by malem , April 12, 2012
i guess we cna continue with this silly dialogue if you want, sort of redundant if you ask me... I stated earlier "As stated originally there is nothing in the Quran pointing to honour killing, thus trying to say there is would be akin to lying. Your welcome Duh"
0
Malem
written by Salladin , April 13, 2012
No that's not good enough Malem. Show me where we had the discussion about honour killing etc. as i stated in my previous post. Or admit you were mistaken. I'm waiting.
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How Quran creates culture, habits and traditions
written by Editor, M A Khan , April 13, 2012
Many Kuffrs are converting to Islam in the West. Before they converted a girl would drink alcohol, dress liberally, go to the beach in bikinis, mix with unrelated men openly, indulge in pubbing, have premarital relationships and living together, eat pork etc. These are part of their culture, habit and tradition.

And all these are changed after they embrace Islam. They will wear burka or hijab, stop pubbing and partying, won't eat pork any more, won't drink alcohol any more, won't mix with unrelated men any more, living together will be unthinkable. Their habit, culture, and tradition will change drastically. Of course, these changes are demanded by the Quran.
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MA Khan
written by someone , April 13, 2012
[Editor: Do not post irrelevant comment on any thread any more. All of your posts are out of line so far. If you don't understand English or the topic, don't comment. From, now on your comment, if irrelevant, will deleted. And you may be barred from commenting.

back to muslim. means a return to Islam should start something new.
Most people who return to Islam is a sincere person.
the source of Islamic teachings of God.
The prophet is an example.
even the wife of Prophet Isaac, Rebekah who maintain themselves with a veil. as well as his mother maryan prophet isa.
all sources of the teachings of God.
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Khan
written by Rzq , April 13, 2012
"How Quran creates culture, habits and traditions
written by Editor, M A Khan , April 13, 2012
Many Kuffrs are converting to Islam in the West. Before they converted a girl would drink alcohol, dress liberally, go to the beach in bikinis, mix with unrelated men openly, indulge in pubbing, have premarital relationships and living together, eat pork etc. These are part of their culture, habit and tradition"
Is this what mr khan wants for his mother(s), sisters and daughter(s)!!!
Clown!
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Rzq banned!!
written by Editor, M A Khan , April 13, 2012
Rzq has been warned before not to involve family member of any commenter in the debate here intending insult at them. He won't listen. So, he has been duly banned for repeating the same slur at family members.
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M A Khan
written by Salladin , April 13, 2012
He can't help it Mr. Khan. He thinks Allah likes to involve familymembers and insult them and curse them.

Muhammad cursed a lot. His last words when dying were: cursed be the christians and jews etc. What a way to die..full of hatred. Maybe this is the reason muslims say after mumbling his name: peace be upon him. He didn't die in peace, that's for sure! When he died, his followers thought something miraculous was going to happen. After 3 days or so of nothing and realized that his body started to rot/stink..they finally buried him. What kind of proof do you want that Muhammad played Allah during his life?
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Salladin
written by Malem , April 14, 2012
Im waiting for you now, ""As stated originally there is nothing in the Quran pointing to honour killing, thus trying to say there is would be akin to lying. Your welcome Duh" So this was the dialogue, no mistakes, you just overlooked it, thats OK though we all make mistakes some times.
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Malem
written by Salladin , April 14, 2012
Where did i say there is Malem? where did i try to say there is honour killing in qur'an? I just never had a converstaion with you about honour killings in qur'an. Why can't you admit that you're wrong about this?
So i need a post where i stated that there is honour killings in qur'an like you accused me. If you can't it means your accusation is false and that you mixed me with someone else. Indeed we are humans so we make mistakes and there nothing wrong with it.
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killing their own offspring... cont.
written by 1proudkaffur4life , April 14, 2012
Now something completely UN-ISLAMIC has been ingrained in the Islamic society, this is a fact. Now Malem repeated this point over and over here, I've ask myself the question if he can see it, WHY NOT the *LEARNED* Scholars and Islamic "Scientists" who spend their whole lives studying the words and deeds of not Mohammad but the early followers.
Why did the Imams over the course of centuries ALLOW this UNISLAMIC practice to grow and fester? The point is not "Unbelievers" who speak out against it, but how could it be established within the Islamic society. OK a "Quran-only" Muslim would insist on "show me this in the Quoran"! But this in no way lets the ISLAMIC society off the hook. Fact is that this is happening, based on what rationale, justification, and explanation?
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Islam has only one direction
written by hktony , April 14, 2012
Islam sadly only brings pain to everyone in the long run. Islam is to put it in plain words a terrible excuse for a religion.
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A strange tale of honor killing
written by Yibel , April 14, 2012
Please point to the verse or surah that directs one to "Honor violence and killing is a Western name of what has been traditional Islamic killing in Muslim societies from the days of Muhammad, directed by the Quran, Sunnah and Sharia."

In Qur'an sura 18 (60-85) Moses tells his servant: "I will journey on until I reach the land where the two seas meet, though I may march for ages."

When Moses and his servant reach the two seas, they forgot, or misplaced, their fish which somehow swims away and miraculously makes its way into the sea. Following this event they meet up with one of Allah's servant's, a mysterious stranger, and Moses asks to follow him in order to learn the mysteries that this servant of Allah has been taught. Moses is allowed to travel along so long as he asks no questions about anthing that this mysterious stranger does. So off they go!
First the stranger bores a hole in a boat so it will sink.
Next he kills a youth that they meet:
18:74 "They journeyed on until until they fell in with a certain youth. Moses companion slew him, and Moses said: You have killed an innocent man who has slain no one. Surely you have done a wicked thing."
Finally, the stranger fixes a wall.
Then the stranger explains his actions: By sinking the boat, he was saving the sailors from being captured by an evil king and he built the wall in order to hide a treasure for some orphans who would dig it up after they were grown.

And, in 18:80, the mysterious stranger explains that he killed the youth because his parents were true believers (i.e.Muslims) and

"we feared that he would plague them with wickedness and unbelief."

This is the basis of the so-called "honor killing" thing, where under Shari'ah there is no penalty imposed on parents (and grandparents) for killing their own offspring.

I am still searching for the source of the above story. There is nothing like it in the Bible, but then Muhammad's stories come from a variety of sources: such as The Seven Sleepers of Ephesus - a widely told Christian fable - and the tales of Dhul-Qarnayn (the man with two horns) also found in sura 18.
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......
written by Salladin , April 16, 2012
From above

Muslims playing games...funny though!
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...
written by The Truth is plain to see , April 19, 2012
Mohammed killed many people, and commanded the killing of many, such as 900 men of the Banu Quraiza tribe in 627 AD. Killing of those who oppose Islam is divinely sanctioned and blessed by their god ALLAH. If Islam is "peaceful" then Mohammed wasn't a Muslim.

Mohammed had a 6 year old wife (Aisha) and had sex with her when she was 9 years old. That makes him a pervert. Islam is a religion for dummies.

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About the book || Reviews by: Steven Simpson | Abul Kasem | Prof Sami Alrabaa | Ibn Kammuna

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'Islamic Jihad' in Bangla
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Aasma Riaz: "Thank you so much for your book "Islamic Jihad" and showing me the "Big Picture". For 7-8 days, I was glued to your book, absorbing so much information that I did not know existed. You have crisply covered so much in your book and quoted historical references extensively. I am just overwhelmed with different emotions after reading your book..., a priceless tome."

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