Islam Under Scrutiny by Ex-Muslims

Letter to the Archbishop of Canterbury regarding Sharia in UK: Read Islam-watch and Faithfreedom

by Dom Manfred

11 Feb, 2008

Dear Sir,
It is with some dismay that I was carefully following your comments regarding Islam and Sharia law.

Perhaps the problem is that you really have, rather surprisingly, limited reading into Islam and its law, simply because it would not have been a major issue during your time at Oxford. Nobody can blame you for this, but perhaps it is time to call a spade a spade and mention a few bitter truths.

Please, I urge you to read at least some the academic articles found here

http://islam-watch.org/index.html

and particularly

http://www.faithfreedom.org/

There is a lot of very disquieting reading there, but it is better to know than not to. Most of it is very carefully researched, and no, your Grace, I emphatically do NOT recommend a hate site to you.

Amongst other things you will find rigorous historical proof (as far as such a proof exists) for the following:

1) Mohammad was a highway robber.

2) Mohammad was a paedophile.

3) Mohammad was a mass murderer.

4) The Quran poorly uses Scriptural and Talmudic sources, and at times simply misrepresents them.

5) The Quran is fiercely anti-Semitic and homophobic, demanding and justifying violence repeatedly

6) The Quran demands from Muslims to subdue all other people, by any means, including by violence and by the use of lies.

7) Islam is very fundamentalist in nature, more so than many Christian splinter groups, and teaches that all nonMuslims (yes, including you!) are little better than pigs, destined from birth to be fuel for the fires of hell.

All these points can be proved objectively to the standard of “beyond reasonable doubt”, and if you care to see the evidence I would be happy to supply it.

Therefore, to place Islam as a religion in the same category as Christianity or Judaism is seriously misguided. Islam is more a political ideology invented by a very clever but extremely wicked 7th century con-man. This ideology has survived to the present day, not least, due to is built-in extreme intolerance. Do you know how many churches there are in Saudi Arabia? Do you know the penalty for conversion to another religion for a Muslim?

When you were ordained, you were no doubt told to love the sinner but to hate the sin. So, love you neighbour Muslim, but hate the evil he or she is caught up in.

A Muslim following all demands of his/her religion carefully will turn into, well, exactly what Osama Bin Laden turned into. Bin Laden is not an aberration, he is a “good” Muslim in the full sense of the word. We are just lucky that there are not too many like him. The “moderate” Muslim is a myth; what politicians like to call the “moderate majority” is simply the Muslim equivalent to the lukewarm Christian.

The aim of Islam has never been and will never be any kind of peaceful co-existence. Part implementation of Sharia law would not be acceptable or welcome even to Muslims. The aim of Islam is complete in the UK when it is part of Dar al Islam (House of Islam), i.e. it has an Islamic government, and non-Muslims have, by law, be publicly humiliated and pay a special tax for not being a Muslim. Again, I would be happy to supply the evidence directly from the Quran.

I hope I managed to raise your interest to read around the issue somewhat more widely, and hopefully you will not be shy to at least examine some of the points raised, by looking at the evidence. Not all things are as they should be, sadly.

Yours truly,

Name:   
Comment:

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  • Name: what is all the fuss about?
  • Date: Sunday February 10, 2008
  • Time: 09:48:34 -0700

Comment

Thou shalt never discuss anything related to Islam It's been interesting seeing the storm that has brewed up in the UK over recent statements made by Dr Rowan Williams. As a Christian, I am interested in the views of someone who is seen by the majority of the public as representative of Christians in the UK. And as a British citizen, I'm dismayed by the predictable, but sickening upshot of this, and the...how can I say it nicely...OK, I'll just say it...utter idiocy of many of my fellow countrymen. It takes all of ten minutes to listen to the audio of the interview and hear the context and get the full picture. But clearly few people bothered doing that. Instead they just took the sound-bite that the media were only to happy to feed them, took what they'd heard about some of the extreme parts of Sharia law, put the two together and acted like he'd just said that women should have no rights and we should introduce capital and corporal punishment. Never mind that if you bother to listen to the interview he states that nobody in their right mind would want these kinds of things in British law and rightly damns them. Never mind that he gave specific examples of the areas of law he was thinking of and they were areas such as marriage where the very nature of it has a lot of religious specificity anyway. Never mind that he explicitly said that it should be a *choice* agreed to by both parties in a legal case to arbitrate their case through a means compatible with their religion. Never mind that he said that doing so should not waive their rights to take their case through the normal secular courts. No, never mind all that. Let's start making calls for him to resign instead. Calling for people to resign seems to be a very British solution to a lot of things now, anyway. You don't even need a real problem now, it seems. There's some scary insight into the reactions amongst some Christians too. To quote a BBC article, "both traditionalists and liberals in the Church have their own reasons for criticising Dr Williams". I was hoping they'd have some good ones, but no. "Liberal Anglicans believe giving Sharia legal status would be to the detriment of women and gay people." Duh. Williams explicitly spoke against that kind of influence. So they're criticizing someone who expressed the same viewpoint they are? I really hope they got that analysis from a mis-informed but vocal minority. And the traditionalists? "Traditionalists maintain that English law is based on Biblical values and that no parallel system could be tolerated in the UK." OK, so for one I find it hard to see that what was being suggested was a "parallel" legal system. Secondly, our law is increasingly loosely based on Biblical values these days, and I'm sure you can go and find plenty in it that is unbiblical too. And third, "no X could be tolerated" style arguments from the point of view of one's own religion or faith are Just Plain Dangerous. It's the same intolerance we see in parts of the Middle East, where the upshot is discrimination against Christians. So do I agree with every word he said? I'm not sure I'm thought everything he said through enough to really know that yet, though I'm sure I'd find things to nit-pick at here and there. But there's some more important questions. Such as, is he asking questions that matter and discussing topics that really, really need to be discussed because they matter to the long-term stability of British society? And yes, I think he is. I think that Britain is headed for some serious challenges. It's had and pulled through plenty before. Sadly, I fear apathy has set in so strongly amongst many (not all, but many) people now that they'd rather just push anyone who tries to address the challenges to resign, though. It's all very sad to see.

  • Name: noor
  • Date: Sunday February 10, 2008
  • Time: 14:05:10 -0700

Comment

I am confused, a man who is regarded so high as a leader,happens to talk about Islam,and the people who he represents throw such insults at him, without even reading or watching what he actually said.That is quite shameful,respect the man and his views,no need to be abusive.

  • Name: peter ali
  • Date: Sunday February 10, 2008
  • Time: 15:26:32 -0700

Comment

can i sagust to the management of brother devil Islam watch,and the other evil half ffi ,that the archbishop happens to be a man of God,he unlike you is honest, tolerant ,truthful, sinsear and above all God fearing, no way you would ever see him unlike you, lie, misquote, be disrespectful, name calling, vile, and rude. Even the thought of Islam watch and ffi to write a letter to the Archbishop in itself an insult to the man, so kindly i urge you to withdraw this letter immediately.

  • Name: Larry Houle
  • Date: Sunday February 10, 2008
  • Time: 22:50:00 -0700

Comment

THE ABOMINATION OF SHARIA LAW: A DIRECT CHALLENGE TO DEMOCRATIC CONSTITUTIONS AND RULE OF LAW By:Larry Houle www.godofreason.com intermedusa@yahoo.com Wherever Muslims live under Sharia law adulterers are publicly flogged or stoned to death, sometimes before thousands of spectators in public stadiums. There are no rights for women or children, with women genitally mutilated, and beaten in the streets for the slightest infraction. They care nothing for other beliefs, about being fair, have no juries, no free speech. Television and radio are forbidden, music and dance prohibited. It is their way or execution, the death penalty, with no appeal, no delay. You are simply shot in the head where you stand, and your children shot before you. And these practices of the Sharia, once largely confined to the Middle East, even though mostly finished in Afghanistan, are now spreading to other parts of the world. Here are the top eleven reasons why Sharia or Islamic law is EVIL for all societies. 11. SHARIA LAW IS SLAVERY 10. Islam commands that drinkers and gamblers should be whipped. 9. Islam allows husbands to hit their wives even if the husbands merely fear highhandedness in their wives. 8. Islam allows an injured plaintiff to exact legal revenge—physical eye for physical eye. 7. Islam commands that a male and female thief must have a hand cut off. 6. Islam commands that highway robbers should be crucified or mutilated. 5. Islam commands that homosexuals must be executed. 4. Islam orders unmarried fornicators to be whipped and adulterers to be stoned to death. Fornication: 3. Islam orders death for Muslim and possible death for non—Muslim critics of Muhammad and the Quran and even sharia itself. 2. Islam orders apostates to be killed. In And the number one reason why sharia is bad for all societies . . . 1. Islam commands offensive and aggressive and unjust jihad. Conclusion The nightmare must end. Sharia oppresses the citizens of Islamic countries.

  • Name: balam
  • Date: Sunday February 10, 2008
  • Time: 22:55:23 -0700

Comment

THE REMARKS BY THE ARCH -WERE MOST DISGUSTINGS,SUGGESTING TO IMPLEMENT SHARIA LAWS IN THIS CIVILISED CHRISTIAN COUNTRY..HE DOES NOT SEEM TO KNOW ISLAM WELL ENOUGH ,LIVING IN THE COMFORT OF LAMBETH PALACE.HE SHOULD MOVE TO PAKISTAN.AFGANISTAN,SAUDI-ARABIA AND HAVE A FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE,HOW MUCH THE LOCAL CHRISTIANS SUFFER THERE UNDER OPPRESSIVE SHARIA LAWS AND THEN TRY THE PRESCRIPTION FOR THE BRITISH PEOPLE.HE IS BASICALLY IGNORANT ABOUT ISLAM AND ITS TRUE REALITY.ISLAM IS A POISONESS SNAKE WHICH PRESENTS ITSELF AS A HARMLESS WORM.COMING OF MOHAMMAD,AS AN ENEMY WHO WOULD SOW THE SEEED OF HATRED AGAINST THE JEWISH PEOPLE[CHRIST WAS BORN IN A JEWISH FAMILY]AND THE FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST JESUS.THESE PEOPLE ARE CALLED APES AND SWINES BY THE DEMONIC SPIRIT OF MOHAMMAD AND THAT INCLUDES THE ARCHBISHOP AS WELL BEING A CHRISTIAN.I DO NOT THINK THE ARCHBISHOP HAS READ THE HOLY BIBLE DILIGENTLY ENOUGH.I WOULD ADVISE HIM TO READ AGAIN THE GOSPEL OF ST.MATHEW CHAPTER13AND VERSE24-31.HE CARRIES A LOT OF BURDEN OF THE SHEEP OF CHRIST.AS SUPPOSEDLY BEING A MAN OF GOD,HE SHOULD TRY NOT TO THROW THOSE POOR SHEEP TO THE WOLVES.EVEN THE HINT OF SHARIA LAWS IS A SOURCE OF ENCOURAGEMENT TO THE MUSLIMS WHO ARE HOPING TO TAKE OVER BRITAIN AND ITS BEAUTIFUL WOMEN FOR ISLAM AND SEX CRAZED MUSLIMS LIKE THEIR PROPHET,WHO WOULD NOT SPARE EVEN A CHILD OR HIS DAUGHTER-IN-LAW.DOES THE ARCHBISHOP RECOLLECT WHAT JESUS ABOUT SUCH A MAN?HE SAID THAT A MAN WHO MOLLESTS A CHILD;A MILLSTONE SHOULD BE TIED ROUND HIS NECK AND THROWN INTO THE DEEP SEA.THAT IS THE PUNISHMENT MOHAMMAD DESERVED FOR MOLLESTING LITTLE AYESHA.MR.ARCHBISH,PLEASE,RESIGN,IF YOU CAN AND NOT LEAD THE FLOCK WITH SINCERITY .JUST REMAIN POLLITICALLY CORRECT IN THE HOUSE LORDS BUT YOU WILL BE LEAST IN THE HOUSE OF OUR LORD JESUS THE CHRIST;SON OF THE LIVING GOD.

  • Name: Ananda
  • Date: Sunday February 10, 2008
  • Time: 23:20:20 -0700

Comment

The Archbishop of Canterbury is not a dope - he knows precisely the reactions and emotions his comments will generate (sample the comments here and at blogs about UK & Euro Muslims). He obviously is adding fuel to kick-the-butt of Islam sentiment and is succeeding brilliantly.

  • Name: Tony
  • Date: Monday February 11, 2008
  • Time: 01:38:47 -0700

Comment

as usual Moslems HATE THE MESSAGE about their dangerous cult, but HISTORY TELLS THE TRUTH - they really need waking up.

  • Name: Igor to JORGE and AKHTER
  • Date: Monday February 11, 2008
  • Time: 02:08:53 -0700

Comment

As a goodwill gesture on the part of Muslims worldwide, I think that the Hagia Sophia, which used to be the Basilica of Eastern Orthodox Christianity but was taken as "booty" by Muslim "liberators" in 1453 and turned into a mosque, should be returned to the Christians. Read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagia_Sophia

  • Name: Igor to All
  • Date: Monday February 11, 2008
  • Time: 02:31:20 -0700

Comment

Here's the full text of what Archbishop Rowan said: http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/1575

  • Name: Allat
  • Date: Monday February 11, 2008
  • Time: 06:30:05 -0700

Comment

Crickie! Who the HELL (!) is going to read the above tomes - they're outright books.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "History makes it clear, however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated."-----------------------In answer to this, I'd say, there were WITNESSES A _N _ D survivors to the conquest of the islamics - the depredations - slaughter and rapes and thievery of the islamic scum.-------------People at the edges of the fallen countries, looking in, getting ready to flee.------------Someone else mentioned the beauty of islam, there is NO beauty in this religion, and underneath, a terrible fear of the Creator.----------------------Someone else ( I just troubled to read the 1 and 2nd sentences of the above books) - someone else said, "to respect the bishop" - I do NOT respect any cleric whatsoever - they've spent years in s seminary or training to lie to us - LIE to us regarding history (Western history is taken from the jewish Pentateuch coupled with Paulist (false)xtianity, as opposed to the original philosophy.----------It's very curious AND alarming to me, that in general, it is Western Males that are the Devil's Abvocates to islam. I conclude that it's because it won't make much different to them one way or the other - since males will sit down to tea and discuss commonality, have camaraderie, hug each other in the islamic way, all the while having tea, while women will be the ones SERVING THE TEA!------------------

  • Name: Igor to Allat
  • Date: Monday February 11, 2008
  • Time: 06:55:47 -0700

Comment

What, pray tell, is the "original philosophy" of the west? How many thousands or tens of thousands of years back in time do we need to go to find its perfect expression? How might we then reorder and reorient our lives accordingly today?

  • Name: Patrick Risk
  • Date: Monday February 11, 2008
  • Time: 07:09:47 -0700

Comment

Dear your Grace: If you could direct your attention away from the young boys for just one second, Islam is at the door. Since you haven't taken time to research the lies of your own religion, it's just too much to expect that you would research anything! It's OK your Holiness, the scholarship of humanity has done that for you. If you would like the brutally blunt (nut shell) version of this article, please give me a call, I left my number with the boy who answered the phone...Just a little food for thought: When you start with a lie, you end up with a lie. No amount of time will turn lies into truth. Time is up! Faith has become a synonym for stupidity, with all due respect. Mr. Archbishop, It seems everyone with a fancy title starts to think they're someone special. I'm pretty sure that's what has happened to you. Please don't take my word for it though Padre. For confirmation, check with Pat Condell on youtube.com <><><> Take the smallist particle from a crushed grain of sand and divide it by a billion. That's where I stand in the universe. And I see, you're right next to me...Just say no to stupid...Patrick Risk

  • Name: James
  • Date: Monday February 11, 2008
  • Time: 08:01:36 -0700

Comment

A letter without grammatical mistakes might make a better impression! After all, leftist intellectuals make a big deal about people being "stupid"...

  • Name: john
  • Date: Monday February 11, 2008
  • Time: 08:11:16 -0700

Comment

I will not submit.

  • Name: Allat
  • Date: Monday February 11, 2008
  • Time: 10:15:32 -0700

Comment

"original philosophy" of the west" I never said that. I said the original philsophy of xtians. The Teacher, the Rabbi Jeshua ben Joseph. The man never wanted to start a religion, but a WAY OF LIFE. He's been traced historically, thru documents - those few the xtian church have left - and in particular the dregs of the Nag Hammadi and Dead Sea Scrolls, the 5% of them, released - thru Whistleblower Translators - which the majority is held by the xtian church.-----------The man Jeshua was a product of the Essenes, in Judea, last branch of a School which existed in Ancient Egypt, and which still exists in North India and Tibet.------This is documented in part, in - in part only - by Laurence Gardner's books.-----------HOWEVER, Jeshua ben Joseph, was a rebel, which he paid with his life. But he trumped them but GOOD!---------THe original Teaching was simply: "Love your neighbor.....and..."Do unto others....."---That's all. Those are it. These show the influence of the Ancient Egyptians and the Indian Vedas...evidence that there was trade and communication with the East, all along..........way, way before Polo. ------With just following these 2 Precepts, the Moses Commandments fall into place..................And BTW, Jeshua ben Joseph, did teach that "Anything I can do, you can do better, you can do anything better than me."......WHAT!? Yeah, this has been re-discovered in Quantum Physics and the Observer Effect TODAY (Double-Slit Experiment). Can't argue with science, eh?.............But as for me, I never go by any dogma, or holy books, or rites. Just applying these 2 "Laws",is a 7/24/364 job, it's enough to keep you busy, toeing the lines, and even then I fail. I can go on and on. Shall I?

  • Name: Allat
  • Date: Monday February 11, 2008
  • Time: 10:45:05 -0700

Comment

What, pray tell, is the "original philosophy" of the west" I never said "of the West." But the original philsophy of "christianity." Actually, historians and theologists call it "Primitive Christianity" - I think the people following it then called themselves "Jesus People" - who really knows? What it was is, plain and simple "Love Your Neighbor..." AND "Do Unto Others." ANd it was more than needed, and yearned for at the time, it was a "God eat dog world then, severe repression of the underdog, slavery was rife, the Romans held power through the sword, the Pharisees and Temple priests were in cahoots with the Romans, and the Grassroots peoples, Not JUST the Judeans, were taxed to death by Herods (a title). He collected taxes to rebuild palaces and the old temple, to his specs - while the common people were only allowed in the Outer Courts, and never mind, moneylending (priests got their large cut) - and there was the matter of the blood sacrifices of animals still demanded ( of which the Priesthood feasted afterwards) while the poor people eat lentils, bread and onions. Not to mention that the "johns" went to the prostitutes - either child slave prostitutes or women having to earn a living (the body always demands food, eh?).............YEAH, I believe there was some kind of Master Teacher, one way or the other, WHOEVER HE WAS.. to teach us better manners..........YEAH, I believe the priests and clerics perverted the basic Teachings, to get control of POWER and WEALTH! And you know what the ultimate power is? Control over the human bodies that contain an Eternal Energy ........THAT is the ultimate power trip!

  • Name: Allat
  • Date: Monday February 11, 2008
  • Time: 10:46:08 -0700

Comment

Correction: "Dog eat dog." He,heh.

  • Name: alastair
  • Date: Monday February 11, 2008
  • Time: 11:42:43 -0700

Comment

Igor -- you have the makings of a man of sense, but your attachment to Christianity lets you down. In post after post on this site I see you trying to square the illogicality of your beliefs with the natural logicality of your mind. The day you learn to despise Christianity as you despise Islam is the day you will attain freedom.

  • Name: Tblab
  • Date: Monday February 11, 2008
  • Time: 11:49:53 -0700

Comment

"Why should you lay your Salvation on a man who was beaten, tortured, for a crime he did not commit! Christians are saved by the blood, torture and the brutal death of Jesus! 4. In Islam men and women are equal in the Sight of God" Sorry, I'd rather lay my salvation on the blood of a man who was tortured for my sins, then to lay my hopes on a God whose prophet tortured many in his own lifetime.

  • Name: Igor to Allat
  • Date: Monday February 11, 2008
  • Time: 13:44:18 -0700

Comment

Love God and your neighbor, Jesus taught. This fulfills the Jewish law and the prophets. Nuff said. Oh, Allat, it also helps to believe in the resurrection of the body.

  • Name: Igor to Tblab
  • Date: Monday February 11, 2008
  • Time: 15:02:42 -0700

Comment

Whoever pastes the "How Islam improves on Christianity?" thingy doesn't care to dialogue with you. Last week or so I posted a point by point reply/rebuttal to the very same pastoid and the poster has changed NOTHING in it since, so my advice to you is to respond as you like for the sake of other readers here, but the poster is in all likelihood unteachable, or what Christian theologians used to call "invincibly ignorant." Maybe they still do...BTW, I like your response :^)

  • Name: Igor to alastair
  • Date: Monday February 11, 2008
  • Time: 15:51:18 -0700

Comment

Thank you, I guess. My faith is an if/then proposition. That is, if God exists, then the Incarnation is possible, (unlike the Muslim assertion that it is beneath God's dignity to become human, which is another way of saying that Islamic denial of this fundamental Christian belief is proof that they have TIED ALLAH'S HANDS!!! a definite No-No!) and if the Incarnation is possible, then so is the Vicarious Atonement, which, by the way, is exactly what Tblab alluded to in his post. Islam dismisses ALL OF THIS as mere "conjecture," naturally, and I suppose that you do as well, Alastair. Tell me, though, what is it that you despise the most about Christianity? Is it something that Jesus taught, or is it more about the way that Christianity has been implemented?

  • Name: y.m
  • Date: Monday February 11, 2008
  • Time: 17:49:32 -0700

Comment

If a bishop can demand to implement ashara laws in uk it is disgusting.he is not representing christians any more.I cannot believe that a bishop could be so much stupid.In muslim countries mostly muslims are sick with shara laws.Those shara laws are to barbaric they cannot meet the needs of the people,Peoples needs and problems are different in different times.Islamic shara lawas are not suitable for today.

  • Name: Igor to All
  • Date: Monday February 11, 2008
  • Time: 18:54:50 -0700

Comment

I've already posted a link to the text of what Archbishop Rowan said, but here it is again in case you missed it: http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/1575 Please do yourself a favor and READ the thing in its ENTIRETY. I did, and discovered thst what he has to say makes a good deal of sense to me, as the same questions that he is addressing arise over legally accomodating ANY religious grouping in a secular society, not just Muslims with their Sharia, which itself can be adapted to meet contemporary needs and sensibilities, as has been the case in some majority Muslim countries, Rowan notes. Of course, there is also the "primitivist" kill-the-apostates interpretation which prevails in many more quarters. Reconciling the two is beyond Rowan's mandate.

  • Name: allat
  • Date: Tuesday February 12, 2008
  • Time: 07:51:33 -0700

Comment

"This fulfills the Jewish law and the prophets." Truth is that arecehologists, historians are all finding out NOW, that all the texts of the Jews have been taken STRAIGHT from the Ancient Egyptians. And that is half of it, the other half has been taken direct from Sumeria (as indicated in Sitchin's monumental work. Many Ph Ds have written about their findings that Moses was an Egyptian, none other than Akhenaton - certainly, you will find clue about it in the Books of Moses. The clues have been there under our noses all along - he was raised as a Prince, ALL princes even of minor wives were trained as Priests, the full plethora, whatever it was. And this guy was "adopted" by a very influential Princess. Moses of the Hebrews given the creme de la creme education. Freud, himself, toward the end of his life wrote about it (strange to find the old man writing about it). ----------------- As to the resurrection of the body, there've been many, many people that have died and come back as witnesses to Another Life, and wrote about it. There are many now, 2 of the most known is Dannion Brinkley and PHM Atwater ( if you yahoo NDE, you'll find thousands of witnesses). It's just been that the xtian church has burned or taken away all the texts and scrolls about it. (There are reported 27 miles of ancient artifacts and texts under the Vatican). I suspect the preferred method of the xtians in executing people, is to make sure people don't come back to tell about it. Once people find out that there's life Elsewhere, and that this here is JUST a bleep in Eternity, church and state can't control them - because there'll be no fear of the Unknown anymore, and people will simply thumb their nose at repression and the gazillion laws passed daily. It would be a better world. Hell, ANYTHING, would be a better world. It would be a better world without clerics also. People seem to get along very well without those creatures.And we NEVER needed the stupid Ten Commantments either ( several which are redundant, and a couple consider women property). Ever notice that whenever you're about to do anything wrong, you already know about it? Something about your chest, you get a feeling in your heart area? A guilty feeling?

  • Name: Allat
  • Date: Tuesday February 12, 2008
  • Time: 08:29:50 -0700

Comment

I also meant to say: Church and State has also trained us very well in skepticism of all kinds of Phenomena, (which equals today, All the Quantum Sciences). It's been like the domino effects, Church and State jerked us around, dealing very harshly with dissenters, and those who KNEW (Gnosis), and from then on, in the next generations, we, parents, took care of teaching our children skepticism. THAT is why everytime Tribal Peoples were conquered, the clerics of religions stepped in, and even took kiddies away from their parents..........To bring the Tribals under their thumb. ....The Jesuits, the Military Arm of the church are the most educated of all the world, bar none - ANYWHERE. ...... You know how they operated? They were the 1st troops to enter a country newly under the scope of the church, and in particular an empire still viable (before the jesuits, it was the monks that did it all over Tribal Europe)..they learned the language thoroughly, and the culture, made their way to the top Cat, (in the time of the scum Charlemagne, and Wensceslas, the monks sweet talked the Tribal Chiefs, making them Hereditary Rulers, insted of Elected Chiefs,and promising perks from the popiola in Rome)in this way, the newly made kings forced their people to convert ---in China and Japan, etc. the Jesuits were diplomats in the court of the Emperors (little did they know their countries had already been divided betw the Portuguese and Spanish)........when the Jesuits had the ear of the Emperors, and Shoguns, the trap was sprung------WHAM!! ----------- the Jesuits had meanwhile, gathered all the texts and data and knowledge,. ancient knowledge of this new scope of influence, the sciences and history, and medicine (Hygiene), Astronomy, High Techology, etc. and learned it THOROUGHLY - taking notes, then they had the Ruler, gather it all up, from the libraries and monasteries of rival religions- by force if necessary ---------away from the people, so that there was no knowledge left to rival the forthcoming xtian teachings. THe people were left empoverished, and ignorant, even of their own ancient history, so that they never knew the true, scientific basis of what was turned into "myths" and "Legends." And then..and then, the Jesuits re-wrote history and presented it to be disbursed widely.......Even here, in America. All of re-writing of history, was believed........ Up to this time,when young, rebel archeologists and historians are reviewing, re-searching, comparing notes and data among themselves, and thru the 'Net.

  • Name: Igor to Allat
  • Date: Tuesday February 12, 2008
  • Time: 08:36:45 -0700

Comment

Interesting question: Was Moses Akhenaton? A Google search brought up this page of links: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS256US256&q=Was+Moses+Akhenaton%3f .....It was Jesus' own belief in the reurrection of the body that I had in mind. I mentioned it because you appear to be dismissive of "dogma, or holy books," i.e., the Canon, while also believing that "Rabbi Jeshua ben Joseph" a prominent character in that same Canon, "trumped them but GOOD!" meaning what? That he rose from the dead 3 days after having been brutally murdered by crucifiction, as he said he would? Or something else? According to the record, his was hardly a Near Death Experience; it was the real deal, a lance thrust into his heart and everything...You've got major "control" issues with "xtians," don't you? As an aside, you are no doubt aware that the followers of Jesus the Messiah were first identified at Antioch as Christians (from the Greek for anointed one) according to the author of the Acts of the Apostles, and not as "xtians" (shades of X-Mas) which could almost be regarded as a slur, coming from you. Is that your intention?...Finally, please do let us know which of "the stupid Ten Commantments" is MOST redundant.

  • Name: alastair
  • Date: Tuesday February 12, 2008
  • Time: 11:57:55 -0700

Comment

Igor, what I despise about Christianity is that its origin is almost identical to that of Islam -- it is the invention of a single man, a man who had the gift of persuasion but very little else. Mohammed invented Islam to attain his own worldly ends, and Paul invented Christianity to assuage his own internal demons. Both are transparent frauds. If you like, say that Mo was a psychopath, and Paul was a schizophrenic: the characters of the religions they founded reflect their respective madnesses, and appeal to the basest emotions in human beings, those emotions whose names mostly begin with 'self': self-righteousness, self-importance, self-pity, etc.

  • Name: Igor to Alastair
  • Date: Tuesday February 12, 2008
  • Time: 14:49:48 -0700

Comment

Astonishing! You despise Christianity because its origin wasn't Jesus at all, but Paul, a schizophrenic, and the chief character of the religion that he founded, Jesus, reflects Paul's madness! Now THAT is probably the most uniquely twisted theory of the origin of Christianity that I have ever read! Jesus' contemporary enemies thought him mad, but I doubt that the Talmudic scholars ever considered that Jesus was probably just a figment of Paul's sick imagination! Bravo, sir!

  • Name: Arejaymack
  • Date: Tuesday February 12, 2008
  • Time: 15:55:48 -0700

Comment

The internet is a wonderful place for the ignorant to share their ignorance with each other. For all of those who want Islamic law, the planes and busses run every hour. How sad that those who read history seem to learn nothing from it. The blind lead the blind....

  • Name: Igor to Alastair
  • Date: Tuesday February 12, 2008
  • Time: 18:13:53 -0700

Comment

I misread your post, but no matter. I still don't get what you are trying to say about the person of Jesus.

  • Name: The Evil Allah
  • Date: Tuesday February 12, 2008
  • Time: 23:11:36 -0700

Comment

A very interesting article but one that quiete obviously be vehemently denied by brainwashed islamists who constantly post the same posts on this site as if they will entice us to join islam Sharia law and democracy cant co-exist... the Archbishop must have been on crack to say that

  • Name: alastair
  • Date: Wednesday February 13, 2008
  • Time: 04:35:03 -0700

Comment

I said nothing about the person of Jesus because it is irrelevant. The historical Jesus was a nobody. You are starting from the assumption that Jesus was a divine being; I start from the assumption that his divinity was entirely Paul's idea.

  • Name: Igor to Alastair
  • Date: Wednesday February 13, 2008
  • Time: 06:04:38 -0700

Comment

You are a mind reader? I started from the assumption that the Gospel writers weren't liars or dupes, so tell me, how do you dismiss or discount the "I AM" instances in John's Gospel, or Thomas' post-resurrection exclamation, "My Lord and my God?" If "divinity was entirely Paul's idea" as you so confidently assert, then what compelled the unknown author of the Epistle to the Hebrews to write, ""But of the Son He says, "Your Throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom?" Heb. 1:8.

  • Name: alastair
  • Date: Wednesday February 13, 2008
  • Time: 06:51:24 -0700

Comment

I am unable to concur with any suggestion that the Gospel writers were not liars or dupes.

  • Name: Igor to Alastair
  • Date: Wednesday February 13, 2008
  • Time: 07:00:32 -0700

Comment

Then why do you believe that Jesus even existed? Where's your unassailable proof?

  • Name: Igor to Alastair
  • Date: Wednesday February 13, 2008
  • Time: 07:01:47 -0700

Comment

As far as that goes, can you prove that YOU exist?

  • Name: alastair to Igor
  • Date: Wednesday February 13, 2008
  • Time: 11:38:25 -0700

Comment

I think we've overstayed our welcome on this page. Drop me a line at raylondelaney@yahoo.co.uk if you want to continue this argument.

  • Name: Walter Sieruk
  • Date: Thursday February 14, 2008
  • Time: 12:06:35 -0700

Comment

The Archbishop of Canterbury is in desperate need to study the Bible, a book given his position he should already know. The Bible teaches that all people which does include all Muslims who don't convert to the Christ, the God-Man who died and rose from the dead will find themselves in hell. Thus,the way of Islam is a false way leading only to hell. In contrast, it is written "Salvation is found in no one else, for their is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12 [NIV]

 
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