Islam Under Scrutiny by Ex-Muslims

Muslim Scholars' Letter to Pope: Marking the Anniversary of Lies and Deception

by Jack Diamond

23 Oct, 2007

Editor's note: Thirty eight Muslim scholars wrote a letter to Pope last year, which was a pack of lies and deception. This year some 131 scholars joined the wagon for marking the first anniversary of last year's letter with a new letter adding more lies and deception. Wait for more this time round next year.
 
 
The recent open letter from Muslim scholars to the Pope and Christian leaders calling for "peace, harmony and mutual goodwill" between Islam and Christianity is extremely problematical. What is in question is the real motivation of the authors, given what the Qur'an does actually say about the Christian faith and actually does say  concerning religious warfare. If the letter were truly reaching out for dialog, respect and goodwill, it might be more than just another apologia for Islam, taking issue with the Pope's remarks at Regensburg last year and blaming Christians for any and all misunderstandings between the two faiths. It might be honest about real teachings in the Qur'an and in the traditions of Muhammad and finding ways to overcome the "hatred and strife" THEY have engendered toward non-Muslims, who continue to be the victims of violence "in the name of Allah." Instead, we have a masquerade.

Instead we have the usual handful of peaceful, tolerant Qur'anic verse: no compulsion in religion; to you your religion, to me mine; to kill a soul is as if you had murdered all mankind...never mentioning the doctrine of abrogation in the Qur'an, that the revelations from Muhammad's time in Medina, especially concerning religious warfare and the treatment of non-Muslims, nullify or cancel those from the earlier time in Mecca when Muhammad was weak and his message conciliatory. The scholars open their letter discussing 2:256 "there is no compulsion in religion" to show how harmless Islam really is, but the following verse tells us this:

 "as for those who disbelieve, their patrons are false deities, they will abide (in the Fire)"

There are several hundred calls of damnation for disbelievers in the Qur'an and over one hundred verses of the immutable unchanging Qur'an call for violence against those whose crime is not following in the way of Allah as ordered by Muhammad. Did the scholars just forget to mention them?

The scholars say to Christians, "let our differences not cause hatred and strife between us...let us respect each other, be fair, just and kind to one another and live in sincere peace, harmony and mutual goodwill."

The question is whether this call is for one side only--the Christian, for the scholars seem to have neglected verses like 5:17 (those who believe in the divinity of Christ are disbelievers):

"They do blasphemy who say God is Christ, the son of Mary. They do blaspheme who say God is one of three in a Trinity...verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them...Christ, the son of Mary was no more than a messenger" ( 5:17; 5:72-73,75).

Or 9:30-- Christians are cursed by Allah) "and the Jews say Ezra is the son of Allah and Christians say, Messiah is the son of Allah...Allah's curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth".

Here we have the explicit denial of the truth of the Christian faith, the calling of Christians blasphemers and the idea they are cursed by God for their corrupted beliefs.

4:159 "(On the Day of Resurrection) 'Isa (Jesus) himself will be a witness against Jews & Christians for believing in his death.... Allah will taunt Christians on the day of their doom, saying 'Where are my partners whom ye imagined?'" 78:62-64

From the Bukhari hadith:

"Allah's Apostle said, how will you be when the son of Mary (Jesus) descends among you and will judge people by the law of the Qur'an and not by the law of the Gospel?" V4B60n3449

Islam's Jesus is one unrecognizable to a Christian, for, though Islam foretells his return, it will be to destroy Christianity! "By Him in whose hands my soul is, surely (Isa) the son of Mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind, justly he will break the Cross and kill the pigs and there will be no Jizya." (Ending the Jizya means ending the protection enjoyed by Christians to keep their faith, it announces open-season on them).

Did the scholars miss 5:51? "Take not the Jews or Christians for your friends or protectors, they are but friends and protectors to each other. He among you who turns to them for friendship is of them."

This is a foundation for peaceful, friendly relations? (To take "them" for your friends means a Muslim is "of them" and no longer a Muslim, with all that implies). So how are Muslims to be good friends and neighbors, sharing a common "Abrahamic" faith, when the literal word of God is telling them to keep apart, to fear, even despise Christians?:

3:28 "Let believers not take disbelievers for friends...guard yourself against them, taking security".

2:120 "Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians, until you follow their religion."

More explicitly:

4:101 " for the unbelievers are open enemies to you."

"But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads (22:19);

"Fight the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you" (9:123)

 "I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve, smite the necks and smite of them each finger" (8:12).

(3:85) "If anyone of you desires a religion other than Islam it will never be accepted of him."

Finally, Qur'an 9:29, among the last revelations to Muhammad and not abrogated by any further mandates warfare against and the subjugation of Jews & Christians, specifically:

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Qur'an 9:29

This utter hostility to and permanent state of war with Christians needs to be explained by the learned scholars. After all, it might conceivably be an obstacle to peace, harmony and mutual goodwill.

The scholars spend time setting up a straw man – that Christians call Jihad a "holy war" but this phrase "holy war" does not exist in Islam. Though the exact words may not appear in the Qur'an "a rose by any other name would smell as sweet" – holy war is the meaning of religious warfare and fighting in Allah's cause, proven by the use of the phrase by Muslim scholars themselves, among them Dr. Muhammad al-Buti, signatory to this very letter and perhaps one of its authors:

"Holy War, as it is known in Islamic Jurisprudence, is basically an offensive war. This is the duty of Muslims in every age when the needed military power becomes available to them...thus the Apostle of God said 'I was commanded to fight the people until they believe in God and his message."

--"Jurisprudence in Muhammad’s Biography", Dr. Muhammad Sa’id Ramadan al-Buti (page 134, 7th edition).

This statement, incidentally, is at odds with the benign definition of Jihad offered in the letter to the Pope discourse. On p.323-324 Dr. Muhammad al-Buti writes:

"The verse 9:5 does not leave any room in the mind to conjecture about what is called defensive war. This verse asserts that Holy War which is demanded in Islamic law, is not defensive war because it could legitimately be called an offensive war. This is the apex and most honorable of all Holy Wars."

In fact, the best refutation of the absurd claims in this letter is Dr. al-Buti's own work.

p.242 "Defensive warfare in Islam is nothing but a phase of the Islamic mission which the Prophet practiced. After that, it was followed by another phase, that is, calling all people to embrace Islam so that nothing less would be acceptable from atheists and those who associate other deities with God. Also, nothing would be acceptable from the People of the Book except conversion to Islam or being subjugated to Muslim rule. In addition, there is the command to fight anyone who attempts to stand in its way...until the day of resurrection!"

But this letter to the Pope argues Islam was not spread by the sword, that fighting is only allowed for self-defense and maintaining sovereignty, and that there is no compulsion in religion.

"Islam has approved war so that the word of God becomes supreme...this is war for the cause of God (Holy War). Muhammad therefore, sent his ambassadors to eight kings and princes in the neighborhood of the Arab peninsula to call them to embrace Islam. They rejected his call. Thus, it became incumbent on the Muslims to fight them"--

Dr. Afifi Abdul-Fattah ("The Spirit of Islamic Religion" p 382).

Ibn Hisham "Biography of the Apostle" p 134:

Muhammad sent Khalid ibn al-Walid to the tribe of the children of Haritha and told him "Call them to accept Islam before you fight with them... if they refuse, fight them" THEY ENTERED ISLAM BY FORCE. He brought them to Muhammad: Had you not accepted Islam I would have cast your heads under your feet."

Is this compulsion in religion? A little?

"Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah...invite them to accept Islam...if they refuse to accept Islam, demand for them the jizya..if they refuse to pay the tax seek Allah's help and fight them" (Sahih Muslim 4294).

This is the offer Islam gives to unbelievers.

Abu Bakr invading Persia said "Embrace Islam or pay the poll tax or fight." Caliph Umar invading Iraq said "Summon the people to God, those who refuse must pay the poll tax out of humiliation & lowliness, if they refuse this it is the sword without leniency." This is how Islam was "spread." This was Qur'an 9:29 in action. Legitimate self-defense? Compulsion in religion?

The letter insists there is no forced conversion in Islam and that this proves there is no compulsion. Admitting "forced" conversion is not doctrine, we still have the countless examples of "convert or die" practiced by Muslims on non-Muslims, even the Messenger of Allah himself:

"(When Abu Sufyan of Mecca is brought to Muhammad he is told to confess) "there is no God but the only God" and "I (Muhammad) am his Apostle." Abu Sufyan answered 'by God O Muhammad, of this there is doubt in my soul."

"Woe to you! Accept Islam and testify that Muhammad is the Apostle of God before your neck is cut off by the sword." (Thus he professed the faith of Islam and became a Muslim.)

Dr. al-Buti in "The Jurisprudence of Muhammad's Biography" repeats this story, he thinks some might object to faith being imposed by the threat of beheading!:

"What is required of an infidel or one who confuses other gods with God, is to have his tongue surrender to the religion of God and subdue himself to the prophethood of Muhammad. But his heartfelt faith is not required at the beginning. It will come later."

Interestingly, the letter to the Pope contains just this definition of forced conversion as pertaining to forcing a heart to believe (not forcing a tongue to confess!).

The letter ignores the three choices given by Islam to Christians: convert, live as inferiors paying the Jizya, penalty tax to the Muslim state, or fight and die.

Clearly, there is an implied threat behind the "offer to Islam" or the choice to live in subjugation. Is this compulsion to religion?

Now, those living in subjugation in Muslim lands, the dhimmi, protected people, was their status as protected people who could continue in their faith, under certain restrictive, discriminatory and humiliating conditions not entirely conditional? At any time they could lose their protected status and their very life would be in danger. Was not the oppressive, burdensome life in dhimmitude a cause for many to convert just to have a better life?

Is that compulsion in religion?

The intent of the Jizya, set out in verse 9:29, is described in the commentary by ibn Kathir:

"with willing submission in defeat and subservience and feel themselves subdued, disgraced, humiliated and belittled" (in return for letting People of the Book live);

and in Jalaluddin Suyuti:

 "this is the basis for accepting Jizya from the People of the Book, a state of abasement.

Al-Maghira told Rustam 'I call you to Islam or else you must pay the jizya while you are in a state of abasement.' He said 'What does a state of abasement mean?' He replied 'You pay it while you are standing & I am sitting and the whip is hanging over your head.' "

More ibn Kathir:

 "until they pay the Jizya" means that this is done if they don't convert to Islam; "with submission" means that they are forced to pay and should be downcast...reviled, disgraced & debased...the People of the Book are despicable, lowly & rebellious."

The People of the Book are despicable, lowly and rebellious! This is the Qur'anic judgment of its most prestigious commentator, ibn Kathir. I don't remember reading this in the letter to the Pope.

It is good that the scholars condemn the murder of a Catholic nun in Somalia, (what of the Catholic priests murdered also by Muslims, is it just the murder of women that is "unIslamic"?) but what of the 9,000 plus Jihad-terror attacks since 9/11, all done in the name of their religion for the cause of Allah?

Do they condemn these? Are they or aren't they occasions of "spilling innocent blood" as well? What would the scholars say to this Muslim: "When we say innocent people, we mean Muslims. As far as non-Muslims are concerned, they have not accepted Islam. As far as we are concerned, that is a crime against God."

--Anjem Choudhury on why the victims of the London 2005 bombings were not innocent & could be killed.

In the name of bringing the two religions closer together, the scholars say this : "Christ himself used violence against the money-changers in the temple" I guess equating turning over tables with killing disbelievers (how many did Christ kill there exactly?); "and Christ said 'I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.' Of course, one spoke in metaphors and told his follower Peter to put up his (real) sword; the other was quite literal in saying "paradise is under the shade of swords", ordered assassinations and personally beheaded prisoners. In any case, Jesus did not kill anyone or command his followers to kill anyone in his name .

What else did the Muslim scholars leave out of their letter to the Christian world?

9:33 "He it is Who has sent His Messenger with the guidance of the Religion of Truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religion, however much the idolaters may be averse."

"When the prophet migrated from Mecca to Medina God ordered him to only fight those who fought him only. Then when the Chapter of Repentance (surah 9) was revealed, God commanded his Prophet to fight anyone who did not become a Muslim whether they fought him or not." -- al-Jawziyya, Saudi scholar.

"Reliance of the Traveler", the Sunni legal manual endorsed by Al-Azhar University, states Jihad is "a communal obligation" to make "war against non Muslims. The Caliph makes war upon Jews, Christians & Zoroastrians...until they become Muslims or else pay the non Muslim poll tax...the Caliph fights all other peoples until they become Muslim" (and if there is no caliph, jihad must still be carried out).

"Jihad... is etymologically derived from the word 'mujahada' signifying warfare to establish the religion...the duty of Jihad exists as long as the universal domination of Islam has not been attained 'until the end of the world'."

"So at first the fighting was prohibited then it was permitted and after that it was made obligatory ...Allah revealed in Surah 9 the order to discard all obligations (treaties)and commanded the Muslims to fight against all the pagans well as the People of the Book if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued' "

--Dr. M. Mushinkhan, Medina Islamic University introduction to Sahih Bukhari.

'The Book of the Islamic State' (1953) by al-Nabhani, the founder of Hizb ut-Tahrir:

"The foreign policy of the Islamic state must be to carry the Islamic mission to the world by way of Holy War. This process has been established through the course of the ages...this process has never been changed at all. The Apostle Muhammad from the time he founded the State in the city of Yahtrib, prepared an army and began holy war to remove the physical barriers which hinder the spread of Islam." (p.112)

"By holy war, kingdoms and states were removed and Islam ruled the nations & peoples. The glorious Qur'an has revealed to Muslims the reasons for fighting, to carry the message of Islam to the entire world..."

Holy War again! Will the real Islam stand up?

"If we besiege the infidels, we would call them to embrace Islam first...if they reject Islam, they have to pay the poll tax. If they pay it they spare their blood and properties but if they refuse to pay the poll tax, then fighting them becomes lawful...these words and principles are confirmed by all the Muslim scholars. The Apostle of God had designed the plan of conquest before his death, then after him, his successors undertook the responsibility of implementing this plan when they started conquering the countries. People's resistance or rejection does not matter because the Islamic system is for all people in all countries."

People's resistance or rejection does not matter!

The letter declares, "Muslims have always believed 'Who so slays a soul not to retaliate for a soul slain, nor for corruption done in the land, it should be as if he had slain mankind altogether."(5:32)

Now 5:32, also translated as: "unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land" is linked in meaning to the next verse 5:33, which lists the punishments for said mischief or "waging war against Allah & His Messenger"--

Islamic scholar Aga Mahdi Puya:

"Waging war against Allah and his Prophet means hostility against his chosen representatives, or deviation from his laws by overstepping the boundaries laid down by Him.. or attempts to undermine the cause of Islam and the overall interests of the Muslims."

This verse incriminates anyone seen as hostile to Islam and dictates murder, crucifixion, amputation, imprisonment as suitable punishments.

Ibn Kathir on 5:33 says:

"the punishment of those who wage war against Allah & His Apostle & strive to make mischief (fasadan)* in the land is only this, they should be murdered or crucified or their hands & feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned" [* fasad meaning corruption, creating disorder by opposing God.]

Corruption in the land is...disorder by opposing God!

Now you know.

Qur'an 8:39 "Fight them until there is no more fitnah (disbelief, persecution) and religion will be for Allah alone (in the whole world)."

So what is "oppression" or "persecution" of Muslims, according to Islam? How can disbelief qualify as persecution of Islam? Can disbelief be a crime?

Once again, ibn Kathir, commenting on verse 8:39:

"(it is) the order to eradicate Shirk & Kufr. Fight them until there is no more Fitnah (trial in religion) & the religion will be for Allah alone (so that there is no more "Kufr", disbelief).

"Rebellion against God's will is termed as 'fitna". Fitna refers us to misconduct on the part of a man who establishes his own norms & expects obedience from others, thereby usurping God's authority, who alone is sovereign."

That pretty much includes most of us, doesn't it? Does this harbor well for peace, harmony and mutual goodwill? Dr. al-Buti? Maybe in your next letter?

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Comment:

Comments Notes: Keep comments short. Our system cannot separate paragraphs. Comments must be relevant to the topic of the article. We did not regulate the comments but if irrelevant comments, materials, adds of other websites etc. are being uploaded, we will have to regulate the comments and even ban the IP addresses of such nuisance posters.

Name:
Date: Tuesday October 23, 2007
Time: 05:04:32 -0700

Comment

This is a very interesting and good article. It is specific, concrete and on the point. It contains a number of relevant references to the doctrine and shows very clearly the complete deception carried out by the muslim scholars. There is no chance in the world that they don´t know what they do. So they really do believe that the western public can be deceived. It is our job to see to it that that will not happen. One way to do that is to bring up the subject of the letter often in different circumstances and then refer to this article. Regards, No Sharia

Name: ChrisLA
Date: Tuesday October 23, 2007
Time: 08:57:32 -0700

Comment

The idea that Jesus would return and "break the cross" would be the ultimate heretical act for the Christ. Jack Diamond's reference (Bukhari Vol.4 Number 3449) could not be found, but similar statements are in three other places in Bukhari's hadith collection: Vol. 3, Number 425, Vol. 3, Number 656, and Vol. 4, Number 657. It is also found in the hadith of Abu Dawud, in one narrated by Abu Hurayrah, with the added statement, "Allah will perish all religions except Islam."

Name: jack diamond
Date: Tuesday October 23, 2007
Time: 10:16:18 -0700

Comment

I will check the Bukhari again. Here are the others: Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 34, Number 425: Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, son of Mary (Jesus) will shortly descend amongst you people (Muslims) as a just ruler and will break the Cross and kill the pig and abolish the Jizya (a tax taken from the non-Muslims, who are in the protection, of the Muslim government). Then there will be abundance of money and no-body will accept charitable gifts. Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 656: Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you as a just ruler, he will break the cross, kill the pigs, and abolish the Jizya tax. Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it (as charitable gifts).

Name: Musa
Date: Tuesday October 23, 2007
Time: 10:30:30 -0700

Comment

Hinduism and Christianity have been proven to be two FALSE dogmas centuries ago. No logical and rational minded people believe in the stupidities and barbarism of Hinduism and Christianity. Both Hindu and Christian Trinity are BS – borrowed from paganism! God becomes human, animal, rat, donkey, monkey, insect, etc! That's BS - borrowed from paganism! God eats, drinks, pees, shits, have sex, get sick, and eventually die! Hindus have no more god! LOL! Hindus become rats, monkeys, donkeys, etc! That's BS too! One day all Hindus will be transformed into rats and donkeys! That's the stupid Hindu philosophy of reincarnation! LOL! Hindus are the only barbarous species who burn their widows! Hindus are the only species who have evil caste system. All Hindu gods/goddesses are blood thirsty and violent. And many more! Yet Hindus believe that Islam is evil and all Muslims are terrorists! If that was the case then there won't be any Muslim on the face of the earth by now, according to their idiotic philosophy of reincarnation! But the fact is that Muslims surplus Hindus by more than 800 millions, although Islam started long after Hinduism! It proves with no doubt that Hindu philosophy is absolutely FALSE! It is only for donkeys! LOL! That's the reason why a group of idolatrous Hindus and Christians are spreading lie and hatred against Islam and Muslims all over the world to stop the march of Islam! But they can't do anything! In spite of their rigorous efforts Islam is growing in America and Europe more than any other faith! Thousands of Americans and Europeans are converting to Islam every year. If idolatrous Hindus and Christians are jealous of the growth of Islam then they should convert to Islam immediately and repent to God for their sins that they have committed against Islam and Muslims. God may forgive their sins, as God is the Most Gracious, Most Merciful, Loving and Kindness (Qur'an 1:1-3; 85:14). Muslims are the True followers of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad. Qur'an and intellect are our true swords (Qur'an 16:125). America and Europe are converting to Islam within the next few decades. So, you guys should think about that! Islam is coming in America and Europe ... !

Name: jack diamond
Date: Tuesday October 23, 2007
Time: 10:52:13 -0700

Comment

Wait Musa, didn't Allah transform some Jews into apes and pigs? So it is possible! Tell me, honestly, is there anything in this article that is a lie? Someone not quoted correctly? Here's something that might worry you: "In December 2001, Sheikh Ahmad al Qataani, a leading Saudi cleric, appeared on a live interview on Al-Jazeera satellite television to confirm that, sure enough, Muslims were turning to Jesus in alarming numbers. "In every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity," Al Qataani warned. "Every day, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Every year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity."...Stunned, the interviewer interrupted the cleric. "Hold on! Let me clarify. Do we have six million converting from Islam to Christianity?" Al Qataani repeated his assertion. "Every year," the cleric confirmed, adding, "a tragedy has happened."

Name: Musa
Date: Tuesday October 23, 2007
Time: 12:29:09 -0700

Comment

To jack diamond: That's a hoax! You guys believe in all sorts of hoax and absurdities! Anyway, millions of Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. people are converting to Islam every year, especially in America and Europe. America and Europe will soon be converted to Islam. So, wake up!

Name: Constantine the Great
Date: Tuesday October 23, 2007
Time: 12:31:55 -0700

Comment

Musa, why do you hate humanity so much? You hate it because you can't believe in a God who, as you put it, "eats, drinks, pees, shits, have sex, get sick, and eventually die". God created all these things, he created mankind like this, God believes in mankind and shares in mankind, in all the eating and drinking, the shitting and peeing, the sex and the sickness, the living and dying, so none of it is horrible. But you seem to know better than God what he's like. Christians believe that God revealed what he's like in the person of Jesus, not in some books or writings or voices in people's heads.

Name: jack diamond
Date: Tuesday October 23, 2007
Time: 12:59:16 -0700

Comment

Which hoax and absurdity? The one from the Sira "the bestial transformation occured when Allah turned Jews into apes, despised." Ishaq 250 or the fact a preeminent Saudi sheikh is reporting to the Muslim world that 6 million Muslims are converting to Christianity each year? I didn't say it, he did. America is converting to Islam! What planet are you living on? It's not Halloween yet is it?

Name: Musa
Date: Tuesday October 23, 2007
Time: 14:13:32 -0700

Comment

jack diamond, i know you are a christian missionary. in fact, almost all the anti-muslim forums are runned by missionaries. some of them even spend their whole life defaming islam and prophet muhammad! lol! don't you have enough moral gut to preach christianity without attacking islam and prophet muhammad???

Name: jack diamond
Date: Tuesday October 23, 2007
Time: 15:32:28 -0700

Comment

In fact, Musa, I am not a Christian missionary and this forum is run by ex-Muslims and I am not an ex-Muslim either. You may have noticed this article is in response to a letter to Christians from Muslims, not the other way around. A letter full of lies and deceptions, clearly. How is it attacking or defaming Islam and the prophet muhammad by just quoting what is in the Qur'an and Hadith and how Muslim scholars like ibn Kathir understand them? It's just the truth isn't it? It's not attacking or defaming Islam to tell the truth, unless you don't want the truth to be known. Believe me I'd just as soon not spend another minute, let alone a lifetime, reading these dreary scholars of yours, we are only forced to because of the mortal threat your co-religionists pose to everybody. Leave us alone and we'll be happy to leave you alone.

Name: wally greeninker
Date: Tuesday October 23, 2007
Time: 15:50:35 -0700

Comment

One of the articles of the Mohammedan faith seems to be that the person who speaks last wins an argument. In fact the vituperation, bombast and triumphalist bragadacio of Musa's first post meant he had lost it as soon as he started. On the other hand, he probably presents a fairly accurate example of what the attitudes of the Muslim clerics really were, as they signed up to this clumsily tendentious diplomatic letter.

Name: vbv
Date: Tuesday October 23, 2007
Time: 21:36:40 -0700

Comment

To Musa -- You are a muslim fanatic that you cannot countenance the reality and truth about your ghastly and immoral creed and its intolerant and barbaric ways. You are yourself a typical example of islamic bigotry and intolerance ,I can visualise you frothing from the mouth itching to get your hands on us to decimate us in the true islamic way , a la "sharia" method! Har!Har! Har! It is really comical the way you have exposed yourself! Anyway ,it is good to know the true mental make-up of a true "musalmaan" . May many more of your ilk write through this fora and the world will be truly enlightened by your rabid views! You must definitely be a Pakistani Talibani! Or perhaps a mulla from Iran/Saudi Arabia.

Name: Dhimmi too
Date: Tuesday October 23, 2007
Time: 21:59:12 -0700

Comment

To MUSA , the true follower of intolerant, pedo,sadist, rapist,fascist, murderous,hatefilled,terrorist MO : Arey musa !! here you are - posting same again that you posted under KISAN 's article entitled - ISLAM is the source for AL QAEDA- Taliban attack on women's right group . just few days earlier on this forum............. Musa - i will haunt you - You are the same as - abc, xyz, Rubel,ruble, abeliever,muslim ( all imposters messages posted here on this forum or faithfreedom.org ) & you could be also Mr. Zakir NAIK using these pseudonames. It is obvious that ISLAMISTS have network of people funded by SAUDI ill gotten petroDOLLARS ( with $90.00 /barrel crude - ISLAMISTS are floating in money, petrodollars.), monitoring & posting lies, deception, propaganda, distorting,truth, misinforming/ disinforming to diflect any truth against ISLAM/ISLAMISTS/QQURRAN/MO/ALLA. MUSA - you are so ludicrous guy ( a buffoon ) to bring Hindu name here .Obviously you have built in ISLAMIC hatred,ill will, animosity,hostility, contempt for Hindus as is normal to every & any poisoned ISLAMIST as true follower of pedo MO. Here , the deceptive ,pack of lies letter is from ISLAMISTS & addressed to christians . In No way Hindus are involved .But you started out with HINDUS - with a tirade,lies, deception,propaganda, untruth. Which is dogmatic ISLAM /ISLAMISTS/MO/ALLA or Hindus/Indians ? do you know the meaning of dogma ? fascism ? intolerance? hatred? imperialism? murderous ,rapist ,pedophile - by the way all these attributes are exclusively reserved for ISLAM/ISLAMISTS/MO/ALLA. ISLAM is based on dogma - remember the even the #1 tenet of ISLAM - kaleema .........  Hindu Dharma is the most open ,most progressive, most peace loving,most tolerant, most un-dogmatic ,most compassionate,most spiritual,most noble..... ISLAM is a pest. Islam is plague. ISLAM is dark chapter in human history. ISLAM is like EBOLA virus to humanity. As you claim - few people might be converting to ISLAM in USA or in UK out of ignorance- uneducated,rebellious ,criminal people ( This happens in USA - as most blacks out of animosity to whites sometimes do convert with the instigation of fradulent islamic IMAMS who go to jails & preach hatred to blacks against whites . Remember mark tyson ......... But you - Musa are hallucinating if you think that christians are converting to ISLAM - even in considerable numbers. The reverse is also true - Lot of ISLAMIC people are converting to christianity. becoz - for at least these moslems with good heart,thinking mind ,common sense ,knowledge - it is too much to horbour so much of hate,ill will,animosity, against nonmuslims - as they see daily the monstrous ISLAM/ISLAMISTS/Terrorists/absurdities of QURRAN/MO/ALLA as laughble stuff - consequently they get fed up & leave ISLAM to live a decent ,civilized ,good human life with satisfaction. Musa - how can you go to bed everyday with your children in your house with so much hatred,terrorist mindset,ISLAMIC poison /deception ,filled in your body ? Tell us .

Name: Dhimmi too
Date: Wednesday October 24, 2007
Time: 12:14:11 -0700

Comment

To Musa : AKA zakir naik : Hey ZAKIR NAIK - You are wearing the mask of ISLAM to propagate that ISLAM is good by adopting all falsehoods,deception,lies,distortions/dis/misinformation. Already Ali Sina has challenged you to a debate on Faithfreedom.org. You are the supporter/promoter of hate campaign,ISLAMIC Terrorism ,fascism in INDIA by instigating Mossalmans as usual by your "TAQIYYA" , ISLAMIC deception,lies. First tell us what is your philosophy,ideas, agenda,views about the world !!! what kind of world ,people,countries, societies you want to see. I know you are a hard core,hardbioled ,with ISLAMIC Terrorist psyche. But we want to hear in written form what your real ideas are in straight way. SAY for example I want a progressive society,liberal society with kindness ,compassion solely based on merit,human doings, performance, action,deeds- we want to see a world where everybody is equal,with equal laws to all applying equally to all, equality of all religions, equality of men& women&children, culturally people are free to perform dance, music,singing, photographing, painting. all musical instruments are allowed.Women can take part in sports. We want freedom of expression, freedom of press, religious freedom, freedom of individual. we want liberty to prevail. We want democracy by the people,of the people for the people type. We want peace . We want the govts to be free from religious demands . We are against any kind of dogma & fascism . We want truth to prevail. We want to build a harmonious society of pluralism - no special demands from any religion. We are against theocratic Governments where it is officially & by law sanctioned - the deprivations,inequalities,savagery, discrimination, suppression, oppression, humiliation, slavery,torture, torment,terror,fear as it is happening in all Moslem countries from Moslem Governments,Moslem people. In this day & age - in 21 century - the biggest violaters of all basic human rights are MOSLEMS/ISLAM/MOSLEM Governments,JUNTAS,regimes. ISLAM/Moslems/Moslem Governments must respect all human rights, treat nonmoslems as equal citizens,equality of laws ,providing opportunity to have all the avenues open in civilian,military,cultural,social,religious life of a person- you know all this basic rights are vio9lated in all MOSLEM countries with ISLAMIC barbaric,savage, inhuman rules,laws, traditions,culture. ISLAM is uniquely evil & makes ISLAMISTS uniquely evil. One wonders why the world, it's people are just watching this monster of ISLAM eating the best human values, peace,progress, openness,tolerance, harmony in the world & perpetuating this ISLAMIC fascism,terrorism, murder,killing, terror spree. WHY ? where are the sane world Governments ? what are they doing ? What are the freedom ,peace loving democrats ,tolerant people doing? ........... Lastly We ask You Musa- AKA - zakir NAIK - this is also challenge for you- come here on this forum & discuss freely, frankly,openly, truthfully, factually, based on facts,truth,real history. How can you sleep everyday with all this bile,hatred, viciousness, poison of ISLAM ,intolerance, fascist ideology of ISLAM ( against nonmoslems ,infidels, kufrs,Dhimmis ) flowing in your blood?

Name: Marie
Date: Wednesday October 24, 2007
Time: 13:05:36 -0700

Comment

Musa you are a typical Muslim. You don't know how refute the author's essay, so instead you have copy the work of someone else and passed it off as your own work.

Name: Philip Saenz
Date: Wednesday October 24, 2007
Time: 15:44:12 -0700

Comment

The following are the many pernicious earmarks that prove that Muhammad, founder of the evil religion of Islam, was a false-prophet of the highest order: Muhammad was piggish, full of lust, a wife beater, cruel, wicked,insidious,unforgiving, never asked for forgiveness, loathsome, hateful, violent, psychotic, corrupt, overbearing, arrogant, mentally deranged, psychopathic, a narcissist, a hypocrite, selfish, a sex fiend, vindictive, heheaded opponents for the slightest provocations, a liar, deceptive, contradictory, a murderer, brutal, a torturer, disrespectful and chauvinistic, taught that women are inferior, treated women like trash. Muhammad was also unmerciful, belligerent, abnormal, mentally diseased, incestuous and envious, married his son's wife, greedy, would confiscate one-fifth of the war booty for himself and the rest would go to his violent army. Furthermore, Muhammad was mentally defective, abnormal, a woman beater, diabolical, unjustly agressive, uncontrolled, had an insatiable sexual appetite, a whoremonger, raped slave girls, an adulterer and polygamist, had at least nine wives and two concubines, satanic, an inveterate thief and robber, sadistic, a child molester, brutish, a pedophile, married little Aisha when the innocent child was only six years old, and then raped her when Aisha was barely nine years old. Muhammad was a prophet of God? Ha! Evil Muslims of the pernicious religion of Islam argue that it was the "custom" for old men to "marry" little girls. Yes, it was the so-called custom because fiendish, uncontrolled, mentally defective, disgusting, dirty old men like Muhammad foisted and forced this grave injustice unto the public, and turned it into a so-called custom. Would these uncontrolled, over-sexed dirty old men ever ask the helpless little children if this grave violence, that is, rape, could become a custom? Of course not! The sick, psychopaths like Muhammad would never ask the displeased little girls, who suffered unspeakably at the hands of animalistic and uncaring old men because they knew the little girls would reject such brutality. Some young girls still suffer today at the hands of old, sex craved animals called Muslims because it's the so-called custom in some Muslim countries for sex craved Muslims to "marry" young children. Do these sex craved two-legged Muslim animals care that these children cry on account of the injustices perpetrated by dirty old men? Of course not! Every day the vile and sex craved Muslim dirty old men "marry" helpless children against their will. How did the helpless little Aisha feel when the bearded, dirty old man Muhammad, 53 years old, violently forced himself into her and raped her for the first time? Did Muhammad care that little Aisha cried? Of course not! The unbalanced sadist and selfish Muhammad enjoyed hurting little Aisha. Muhammad was a prophet of God? Ha! Sadistic pedophiles are that way. They don't care! Yes, pedophile Muhammad was satanic to the core! Rest assured that the false-prophet Muhammad wasn't sent by the God of order, justice, forgiveness, compassion and divine love. The false-prophet Muhammad was sent by Allah the god of war, deceit, confusion, and cruelty. Allah was also the god of rapists, death and destruction. All you need do is look around to see the putrid and poisonous fruit that emanates from evil Islam, the religion of violence, rapists, death by stoning, cutthroats, honor killings, suicide bombers, greed, envy, jealousy, hatred, lust, mutilator of little girls' sex organs, punishment by cutting off hands and feet and gouging out eyes, violent death and destruction. Islam is part of the anti-Christ. Since the nice Muslims are more like Jesus Christ, and not at all like the evil, and lusty false-prophet Muhammad, why don't they dump insidious Muhammad? Dear nice Muslims, have the courage to dump the genuine evil jerk and false-prophet Muhammad. Also dump the evil historical documents of Islam that teach grave injustices and violence. It's not your fault you were born into the maelstrom of Islam. Have courage. Be not afraid. Do not allow evil Islam to deter you from questioning evil Islam. But be careful because evil Islam could put you to death just for questioning it. Evil is that way. Does a kind and compassionate religion punish you if you question it? Of course not! Only a wicked religion like Islam would punish you for questioning it. What did you know when you were an infant? Actually nothing. We understand. It's not your fault that you were foisted at the date of your birth, into the wicked, and violent religion of Islam, and then brainwashed through the years with lies and deception without the chance of questioning. Dare to question and then dump the vioklent, unjust, ugly, evil religion of Islam, and the insidious false-prophet Muhammad and then rejoice, rejoice, rejoice! May the caring God of Divine Love bless you and give you courage to question. P.S. All good persons have permission to disseminate this letter. Thank you.

Name: Ananda
Date: Wednesday October 24, 2007
Time: 23:31:19 -0700

Comment

jack diamond,(((Believe me I'd just as soon not spend another minute, let alone a lifetime, reading these dreary scholars of yours, we are only forced to because of the mortal threat your co-religionists pose to everybody. Leave us alone and we'll be happy to leave you alone.))) IF it is just a simple moral threat like porno, no problem. Your academic response bypasses the cultural and social violence that is associated with Islam RIGHT NOW. Your "Leave us alone and we'll be happy to leave you alone" is a stab in the back of secular Muslims. The world must unite in facing this horrible cult.

Name: jack diamond
Date: Thursday October 25, 2007
Time: 01:03:00 -0700

Comment

Ananda, by leave "us" alone I mean non-Muslims, ex-Muslims all of "us" and by "leave alone" I mean murder, threats of murder, extortion, bullying, the slow Jihad of money and da'wa, legal Jihad, buying of media, of influence (read Saudis), creeping Shari'a by Muslims in Infidel lands who consider themselves "behind enemy lines"; the propaganda, the hate literature, the conspiracy theories, the clerics in the mosques, the fake moderates, the front groups; the liars exhibited in this article; "leave us alone" also include Muslims who wish to live in peace with the world and who do not want to return to 7th century Arabia. I did say "mortal threat to everybody" didn't I? I didn't say "moral threat" as if they were some kind of pornographers. I'm well aware of the position secular Muslims are in and I certainly am not stabbing them in the back. They were among the 150,000 Algerian Muslims murdered by fundamentalists. They will be among the greatest victims of the global Jihad. Universal human rights extends to Muslims in the Muslim world and our desire to prevent the loss of innocent life also extends to Muslims in the Muslim world. One thing we can do on behalf of secular Muslims is for the non-Muslim world to adamently say there is no place for Political Islam, for jihadist ideology (genocidal & barbaric) and Shari'a supremacism (totalitarian & the enemy of freedom) in 21st century civilization, and to have the moral clarity to mean it. But this requires brutal honesty about what Islam actually teaches and confronting it.

Name: jack diamond
Date: Thursday October 25, 2007
Time: 01:17:32 -0700

Comment

Oh, and they are dreary to read. So was Hitler.

Name: pmk
Date: Thursday October 25, 2007
Time: 15:56:58 -0700

Comment

Ananda, Where are secular Muslims when the rest of us are being attacked and threatened by Osama and his ilk? We go against the cult of Islamofascism and "moderate" Muslims claim we are debasing Islam. They won't condemn it and they won't let us condemn it, either. Where are you in this spectrum? Do you believe in what these people teach or don't you? As I see it, you may not WANT Musa and his friends to take over, but you'll go along with whichever side proves victorious. You have a foot in each camp. Can you define "secular Muslim"? Do you go to mosque and sit quietly if the imam preaches radicalism? Do you just ignore it and tell yourself that's not you? If you ever hear fellow Muslims talking about an upcoming attack, would you cover your ears or would you call the FBI or your local police station? Long before 9/11, we had passed the point where we could write off the "whackos" of Islam as mere nuisances to be handled in a court of law. They threaten our existence. They threaten our freedom. Do you want Wahhabist Islam to become the law of the land? You self-professed secular Muslims are our first line of defense. If you tolerate this stuff in the mosque, what are the rest of us supposed to think? Where is the Islam reform movement?

Name: Christian
Date: Friday October 26, 2007
Time: 14:50:36 -0700

Comment

Don't you worry, Musa- the destruction of the satanic cult known as islam is near! Do you think I will allow my daughters to become slaves to you? Do you think I will allow my sons to become your murderers? I would gladly give up my life to protect my children and I would gladly give up my soul, too. When the time comes, I will join the force that assembles against you and ruthlessly eliminate every muslim man and woman I can. I will condemn my soul to eternal damnation to spare my children from that same fate. Your islamist cult will not have them.

Name: jack diamond
Date: Saturday October 27, 2007
Time: 08:15:05 -0700

Comment

This should have been the Bukhari attribution: Volume 4, Book 55, Number 658: Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said "How will you be when the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you and he will judge people by the Law of the Quran and not by the law of Gospel (Fateh-ul Bari page 304 and 305 Vol 7)

Name:
Date: Thursday November 01, 2007
Time: 07:22:30 -0700

Comment

Name: Nisar
Date: Sunday November 04, 2007
Time: 23:30:22 -0700

Comment

Salam to all which means peace & blessings of Almight God be on you. This word is the basic and the first spoken when a muslim greets or meets. Sick & Poor to hear that certain people just to fulfill their false intellect inclinations try to pick up anything from Koran out of context and justify their statements. Somewhere in the bible jesus says I will not cast the bread to the dogs..I have been sent or come to gather the lost sheep of Israel. (sorry, i culdnt write here exact as i am just out of moment writing this comment after coming across this site and thus culdnt get time out to get bible and come up with exact words/references.)..Well Jack Diamond or others comments on muslim conversions to christianity or this site ex-muslims is concerned..it is about those muslims who for material worldy interests do convert rather something spritual. On the contrary, i know how christian missionaries operate here in india and penetrate providing material support and attracting people hindus and several name sake muslims to convert. Any one irrespective of the religeon would be commiting barbaric acts including lots of christians, in certain high degree crime rate countries which are not absolutely muslim countries. Please stop judging muslims on what certain deviated lot do.. Let me end this comment with a prophet Muhammads challenge to christians as instructed by God in Holy Koran, Allah commands Muhammad, O Muhammad, tell these christians, get your women and children out and we will get ours and lets pray and invoke the curse of GOD on whom who lie and are untrue.- So jack or others or this so called ex-muslim people, I pray here taking Almighty God as witness that he either guide you obviously if u have the desire to be guided else the curse Of Almighty GOD be on you, if you are untrue..Do you accept it jack and the others..First jack is going to face it and i am waiting for his response..let God guide us on truth and keep us on it for ever. Amen.

Name: Walid patrickson
Date: Monday November 05, 2007
Time: 08:25:15 -0700

Comment

With respect to the editor of this page. The musslims letter to the Pope and to the Christians leaders in the world is very authentic, especially because it holds verses from the Blessed Cour'an. I was surprised that you are asking the musslim to appologize, but for wha. The musslims sent to the pope what the Explicite Cour'an revealed to the Prophet, and the Pope and other Catholic Clergies knows that. It is like they are reading themselves the Blessed Cour'an. I am sure a lot of Christians especially those who believe in our Prophet Jesus may Allah bless hi pure sole. So, my friend, you too should read the Nobel Cour'an without any stereo-typing and then it is up to each individual to believe or not to, in it, encluding those who called themselves orthodox muslims. May the Allah open our hearts, minds and soles to reach oneness in our relations as humanbeing receive same sun, moon, stars and rain for our food and drink. We most all believe in Allah the Mercifull the Most Mercifull of all. What a peaceful harmony will be if all those who believe in the uniquenewss and oneness of the Creator and his prophets from Adam through to Moses, Jesus and Mouhammad.They all called for the oneness of Allah, but humanbeing for his political and other means changes things to fit his agony. If we want real peace and harmony between people of the Earth we should all of us submit to the will of Allah through Moses, Jesus and Mohammad, may Allah bless their pure sole and ours for ever.

Name: jack diamond
Date: Monday November 05, 2007
Time: 12:39:02 -0700

Comment

Is it possible for Muslims addressing this article to actually respond to its contents? You know, it's not enough to just dismiss every non-Muslim use of the Qur'an as "out of context" as if that's the end of the matter! I believe plenty of Muslim authorities are also quoted here, have I altered the meaning of their very clear words with black magic? When you say those who commit violence in the name of Allah are "deviated" please prove it. Prove they are not Islamic. These scholars I quote and the passages I quote, obligating Muslims to Jihad, defining it as war, saying Islamic Authority must rule earth, preaching hate and scorn for "disbelievers" with chapter and verse from your scriptures...prove to me they are not Islamic...Nisar, perhaps Almighty God is guiding me, to tell you something, in truth. Who knows? Could you face that? Can you read this article and deny the truth of it?..as for Walid, it is Christians who are being asked to apologize in this letter, to apologize for defaming Islam by implying there's a connection between Islam and violence toward unbelievers, or that Islam spread by the sword, or that there is compulsion in Islam, or that Jihad is anything but self defense by innocent Muslims--always the victims of aggression, or implying Muslims have any attitude toward Christians but brotherly love (while heaping abuse and scorn on them in the Qur'an). Again, it's the truth we are seeking isn't it? We are all seeking the truth, or are we?

 
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