Islam Under Scrutiny by Ex-Muslims

Does the Quran Incite Violence? A Debate with Mike Ghouse, Part 1



 

Mr. Mike Ghouse (MBA, MCom), claims his Website, is by a Speaker, Thinker & Writer on Pluralism/Interfaith, Terrorism, Islam, India & peace. He is a well-known Muslim activist based in Dallas and a prolific contributor to many Websites. I have been confronted by him (also noticed him confronting others) on a few occasions that the Quran is a book of peace and that there is no violent verses in the Quran.

Recently a Hindu writer (Dr R Brahmachari), in an e-mail group, commented on why Muslim terrorists bomb and cause harrowing carnage in Indian cities---such as Bangalore, Ahmedabad, Mumbai etc.---one after another that:

“In the eye of Allah, these kafirs [Hindus] are no better than animals and hence He instructs the Muslims to mount any kind of torture and atrocities on them, kill them, burn them and their houses, take their women and children as captives and rape their women and so on. So the Koran says:

  • “We have created, for hell, many genii (races) of men...and they are like brute beasts” (7.179)

  • “Verily, those who disbelieve our signs, we will surely cast them to be broiled in the hell-fire, so often as their skins shall be well burnt, We will give them new skins in exchange, so that they may taste the sharper torment” (4.56)

  • “Whosoever followeth any religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted of him in this life, and in the next life he shall be of those who perish” (3.85)

  • “I will cast a dread into the hearts of the unbelievers” (8.12)

  • “Therefore cut off their heads, and strike off all the ends of the fingers. This shall they suffer because they have opposed Allah and His Prophet, and whosoever shall oppose Allah and His Prophet, verily Allah will be severe in punishing them” (8.13)

  • “moreover, as for the non-believers, I will punish them with grievous punishments in this world, and in the world is to come” (3.56)

  • “they shall suffer a grievous punishment” (3.77).

  • “They (believers) shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain” (9:111).”


In response, Mike Ghouse as usual threw in his challenge:

It is time to get over the propaganda that has been dished out over the years. There is no such verse in Qur'an, if you have the list produce me one. Not what is handed down to you, but the one you can point to? Remember, finding the truth is one's own responsibility. You have an open challenge here. Let’s clean the slates and live in peace, one person at a time.

Terrorism is committed by individuals and not religions, these are the dirty games played by individuals donning the mask of Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus or any one. They have everything to gain to upload hatred between people.


Although I deal with violent aspects of the Quran in my Website, previously I couldn’t take on Ghouse’s challenges because of the scarcity of time. This time I have taken it up. Ghouse has agreed to an open debate with me, which we have agreed to publish in Websites.

In this first installment, I am initiating the debate as follows.

Dear Mike Ghouse,

I am, hereby, taking up your open challenge and opening the debate here.

The said Indian writer has produced a set of Quranic verses, which obviously incite violence. You can see it yourself and still, you deny that there are no violent verses in the Quran. These verses have obviously been picked from the Quran according to my checking of six different translations. May I now ask you the following questions:

  1. Why do you think that these verses do not exist in the Quran?

  2. If you think that they exist in the Quran, why do you think that they do not incite violence?

  3. Allah himself urges Muslims to ‘strike terror into the heart of the infidels’ [8:12]. Why do you disagree with Allah? Who knows better? You or Allah?

  4. Likewise, Prophet Muhammad also said: “I have been victorious with terror.” Why do you disagree with Prophet Muhammad? Do you know better than the Prophet? Why do you think that Prophet Muhammad lied?

Let our debate start from here. I wait for your response.


Mike's Response is posted here and I will return with my reply in Part 2:



Mike Ghouse: I am pleased to respond to the above item by item:

Quoted as: "We have created, for hell, many genii (races) of men...and they are like brute beasts" (7.179)

As a habit, I include at least one sentence(Verse) before and one after the given sentence to give a better understanding of the verse.

7:178 (Asad) He whom God guides, he alone is truly guided; whereas those whom He lets go astray-it is they, they who are the losers!

Mike: It is the belief in all religions, that everything that happens is God's will, the Bhagavad Gita says, even the blade of grass is God's will. Here God is nature, the energy of the creator that makes things happen.

7:179 (Asad) And most certainly have We destined for hell many of the invisible beings [143] and men who have hearts with which they fail to grasp the truth, and eyes with which they fail to see, and ears with which they fail to hear. They are like cattle -nay, they are even less conscious of the right way: [144] it is they, they who are the [truly] heedless!

144 - Lit.; "they are farther astray"-inasmuch as animals follow only their instincts and natural needs and are not conscious of the possibility or necessity of a moral choice. (Quran 7:179)

Mike: All the holy books and the law books reasonably establish the consequences for one's behavior. Indeed, as the law of Karma is understood, those who do not do the right deeds in this life, they are bound to born in less than human form, where they have all the senses of eyes, ears etc, yet fail to grasp the morality as humans. Hell denotes less than desirable life. I will be occasionally referencing Hindu scriptures as the man who has produced this information is of Hindu faith.

I don't see the author's claim and connection in this verse ""In the eye of Allah, these kafirs [Hindus] are no better than animals and hence He instructs the Muslims to mount any kind of torture and atrocities on them, kill them, burn them and their houses, take their women and children as captives and rape their women and so on."

I have no idea what he was thinking when he wrote the less than intelligent statement.

7:180 (Asad) AND GOD'S [alone] are the attributes of perfection; [145] invoke Him, then, by these, and stand aloof from all who distort the meaning of His attributes: [146] they shall be requited for all that they were wont to do!

145 - This passage connects with the mention, at the end of the preceding verse, of "the heedless ones" who do not use their faculty of discernment in the way intended for it by God, and remain heedless of Him who comprises within Himself all the attributes of perfection and represents, therefore, the Ultimate Reality. As regards the expression al-asma' al-husna (lit., "the most perfect [or "most goodly"] names"), which occurs in the Qur'an four times-i.e., in the above verse as well as in 17:110, 20:8 and 59:24-it is to be borne in mind that the term ism is, primarily, a word applied to denote the substance or the intrinsic attributes of an object under consideration, while the term al-husna is the plural form of al-ahsan ("that which is best" or "most goodly"). Thus, the combination al-asma' al-husna may be appropriately rendered as "the attributes of perfection" -a term reserved in the Qur'an for God alone.(Quran Ref: 7:180 )

146- Le., by applying them to other beings or objects or, alternatively, by trying to "define" God in anthropomorphic terms and relationships, like "father" or "son" (Razi).(Quran Ref: 7:180 )

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Quoted as: "Verily, those who disbelieve our signs, we will surely cast them to be broiled in the hell-fire, so often as their skins shall be well burnt, We will give them new skins in exchange, so that they may taste the sharper torment" (4.56)

4:55 (Asad) and among them are such as [truly] believe in him, [72] and among them are such as have turned away from him. And nothing could be as burning as [the fire of] hell:
[72]I.e., in Abraham - implying that they are faithful to his message. It is to be borne in mind that the Prophet Muhammad, too, was a direct-line descendant of Abraham, whose message is confirmed and continued in the Qur'an.(Quran Ref: 4:55 )

4:56 (Asad) for, verily, those who are bent on denying the truth of Our messages We shall, in time, cause to endure fire: [and] every time their skins are burnt off, We shall replace them with new skins, so that they may taste suffering [in full] [73] Verily, God is almighty, wise.

[73] This awesome allegory of suffering in the life to come is obviously meant to bring out the long-lasting nature of that suffering (Razi).(Quran Ref: 4:56 )

Mike: The concept of reward and punishment exists in all human endeavors; Swarga and Naraka have been a part of the Hindu system of belief. Naraka is not a place one would enjoy life, it is a bloody hell. The paradise and the hell exist in all forms of justice. Whether it is religious texts or civil or criminal laws there is always a grim consequence or liberation. What is God's message? What does it mean when Krishna says "Surrender to me?" and What does Jesus or Allah mean when they say "follow me" or "submit to my will respectively?."

It does not mean falling flat on the ground and acting dead, it rather means, following the path of truth, dharma - the golden rule in every religion; treat others as you would wanted to be treated. It is the fear of punishment that is a deterrent from wrong doing, as a result ensuring a fairly peaceful existence. The above verse would be wrong in Qur'aan, IF our criminal laws say there is no punishment for the violent killer, rapists or a thief. Imagine your society without the punishment!

For the 2nd time, I don't see the author's claim and connection in this verse "In the eye of Allah, these kafirs [Hindus] are no better than animals and hence He instructs the Muslims to mount any kind of torture and atrocities on them, kill them, burn them and their houses, take their women and children as captives and rape their women and so on."

Where did he cook this up from? And How many has he fed this? I wish he had made the effort to follow Bhagvad Gita "Finding the truth is one's own responsibility".

4:57 (Asad) But those who attain to faith and do righteous deeds We shall bring into gardens through which running waters flow, therein to abide beyond the count of time; there shall they have spouses pure: and [thus] We shall bring them unto happiness abounding. [74]

[74] The primary meaning of zill is "shade", and so the expression zill zalil could be rendered as "most shading shade"- i.e., "dense shade". However, in ancient Arabic usage, the word zill denotes also "a covering" or "a shelter" and, figuratively, "protection" (Raghib); and, finally, "a state of ease, pleasure and plenty" (cf. Lane V, 1915 f.), or simply "happiness" - and in the combination of zill zalil, "abundant happiness" (Razi) - which seems to agree best with the allegorical implications of the term "paradise". (Quran 4:57 )

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Quoted as "Whosoever followeth any religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted of him in this life, and in the next life he shall be of those who perish" (3.85)

3:84 (Asad) Say: "We believe in God, and in that which has been bestowed from on high upon us, and that which has been bestowed upon Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and their descendants, and that which has been vouchsafed by their Sustainer unto Moses and Jesus and all the [other] prophets: we make no distinction between any of them. [68] And unto Him do we surrender ourselves."
[68] - The prophets

3:85 (Asad) For, if one goes in search of a religion other than self-surrender unto God, it will never be accepted from him, and in the life to come he shall be among the lost.

Mike : Just as Lord Krishna proclaims " whenever adharma takes over the society, I will re-appear to bring the dharma back", God says in Qur'aan that" to every nation, every tribe, and every community he has sent a messenger to bring the righteousness back whenever the society went astray.

Then Qur'an, Al-Hujurat, Surah 49:13: "O mankind! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. The noblest of you, in sight of God, is the best in conduct. God Knows and is Aware of everything we do." Dharma operates when people conduct themselves well and treat others as they would want to be treated. That is when Satya (truth ) triumphs.

If you do not follow what Lord Krishna says or God says, the results are same - adharma prevails.

Qur'aan further adds that " it is your Karma that earns you a place in heaven, not necessarily your prayers and wealth. Prophet Muhammad told his own daughter that she will have to earn her place with her Karma and she ain't going to get a free pass because she is the daughter of the prophet. It is individual responsibility.

For the third time, I don't see the author's claim and connection in this verse "In the eye of Allah, these kafirs [Hindus] are no better than animals and hence He instructs the Muslims to mount any kind of torture and atrocities on them, kill them, burn them and their houses, take their women and children as captives and rape their women and so on."

Where did he cook this up from? And How many has he fed this? I wish he had made the effort to follow Bhagvad Gita "Finding the truth is one's own responsibility".

3:86 (Asad) How would God bestow His guidance upon people who have resolved to deny the truth after having attained to faith, and having borne witness that this Apostle is true, and [after] all evidence of the truth has come unto them? [69] For, God does not guide such evildoing folk.

[69] The people referred to are the Jews and the Christians. Their acceptance of the Bible, which predicts the coming of the Prophet Muhammad, has made them "witnesses" to the truth of his prophethood. See also verses 70 and 81 above.(Quran Ref: 3:86 )

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Quoted as: "I will cast a dread into the hearts of the unbelievers" (8.12)

I will stop at this... I bet, there is a pattern of mis-information here. I call it mis-information because it incites hate among Hindus for Muslims. Right information like right karma would help one heal and create goodness.

If you want me to continue, I will. But I think this should be sufficient, I have responded to similar false claims umpteen times.

Pick up the Quraan translation by Mohammad Asad, or a few others and look directly into it. I did not write any of the above except my comments. It is all from the Qur'aan.

It is another story that the Europeans had paid to mistranslate the Qur'aan and even called it a Mohammadan Religion. Much of it is documented at the blog http://quraan-today.blogspot.com/

Mike Ghouse
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• "Therefore cut off their heads, and strike off all the ends of the fingers. This shall they suffer because they have opposed Allah and His Prophet, and whosoever shall oppose Allah and His Prophet, verily Allah will be severe in punishing them" (8.13)
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• "moreover, as for the non-believers, I will punish them with grievous punishments in this world, and in the world is to come" (3.56)

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• "they shall suffer a grievous punishment" (3.77).

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• "They (believers) shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain" (9:111)."


>>> Mike Ghouse smashed in Part 2


MA Khan is the editor of islam-watch.org and the author of  Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism and Slavery.

Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism and Slavery -- by MA Khan

Paperback 17.96 | Kindle edition: $ 7.96 | E.Book: $ 6:00 |

Also available at your nearby bookstores. Look for cheaper offers on print editions at Barnes & Noble etc.

"I read your book and found it fascinating. It is one of those few books which everybody, Muslims and non-Muslims, must read."
--- Prof. Sami Alrabaa

I had the good fortune of reading this magnum opus... This is a "must read book" for all.  The author (M. A. Khan) and Dr. Ali Sina are like two barrel-guns against the threat of Jihad, the world faces." ---Nausheen Najib Rehman (translator, ongoing)


Learn more here.


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Comment:

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Name: Satan Inspired
Date: Tuesday February 17, 2009
Time: 01:56:32 -0500

Comment

--“Therefore cut off their heads,"--There is no doubt this is a satanic-inspired command.


Name: Murugan
Date: Tuesday February 17, 2009
Time: 03:14:23 -0500

Comment

To Mike Ghouse, Your reply seems to be very reasonable. I respect all muslim brothers and sisters. To me lot of things sounds unreasoable in Islam. Can you please answer the following questions 1. Why there is a seperate dress code for muslim women? 2. Why Prophet Mohammad married 6 year old girl? 3. Why Prophet Mohammad involved in war? Why did he use his sword? 4. Most of the muslim invaders had stolen lot of goods, killed innconet civilians, they also made forced conversion. Are they true Islam followers or not? All Islamic countries are teaching them as heros. 5. What about Jijjya (Additional/extra tax ) for non-beleivers? Many muslim rulers used this tax to put extra burden to non-beleivers. Is this said in Quran or Sharia law? Is this justified? 6. Why muslims allowed to marry four girls and girls are allowed to marry only one guy? 7. What ever you said is correct, Why there is a death sentence for people who leave Islam in some islamic countries? Is this there in Quran or Sharia law? 8 Why in Suadi Arabia no one allowed to carry other religious books except Islam and even they are not allowed to practice their own faith except Islam? But Islam followers ask so much things in other countries? 9 As you have taken Hindusim to explain, Do you know in Hindusim, there is no reference of word unbelivers or punishment to unbeleivers.


Name: to: Mr. Ghouse from Ibn Kammuna
Date: Tuesday February 17, 2009
Time: 04:02:20 -0500

Comment

You need to continue your analysis so we can see how you justify the other verses. By the way, you did not explain why those who reject islam Allah will burn them again and again and keep giving them more skin to torture. Don't you think Allah is a sadistic maniac to do that again and again to humans? Also, you have not done a good defense man.Plus you have mistaken beliefs. No where the bible talks about Muhammad coming. This is what the Muslim Mullahs/Sheikhs have you believe. This is just flat out wrong. Do not make idiotic claims like that man. It shows your ignorance if anything. You live in the west. There are many theologians eho know the old biblical languages. Show me any of them telling you that Muhammad's coming is predicted in the Bible. This is a big fat lie done to you by some Muslims who don't know better. and do not run away from discussing the issues man by talking about Hindu belief. Talk about Islam alone, and justify yourself. I am sorry to say, so far, i have not seen that. i hope you will do better next time. But you need to address all the verses. I mean All. Do not stop at one thinking you answered all. You have not


Name: leigh
Date: Tuesday February 17, 2009
Time: 04:17:25 -0500

Comment

Funny that Mike stopped and didnt continue on to 8:13 and 3:56!


Name: G.Ryan
Date: Tuesday February 17, 2009
Time: 05:27:04 -0500

Comment

i would not bother with this man ghouse,he did not answer anything.no other faith has a holy book so filled with hate.in other religions men have been crule not the books they read from.you spread this cult with the sword and it will end by the sword.


Name: Philip Saenz
Date: Tuesday February 17, 2009
Time: 05:48:01 -0500

Comment

In the Christian religion, especially the Catholic religion, saints also try to do the right thing out of love for God, and not necessarily out of fear. Saints (Catholic) have a healthy fear of hell, but they also do nice things to please God. With that said, after a few comments I have a question for Mike Ghouse. Do Catholics wage war against Catholics? No. Do Jews wage war against Jews? No. Do Protestants wage war against Protestants? No. Do Muslims wage war against Muslims? HELL YES!!! Every day Shiite Muslims kill Sunni Muslims because the "Sunni Muslims are infidels." Every day the Sunni Muslims kill Shiite Muslims because the "Shiite Muslims are infidels." Why are both factions calling each other "infidels"? Is it because of the New Testament of the Christian Bible? I don't think so. Damn it, Ghouse, WAKE UP!!! The Shiites and Sunnis are calling each other "infidels" because of The Islamic War Manual, sometimes called the Qur'an. Besides Shiites and Sunnis, there are other Muslim sects waging war against each other, and again it isn't because of The New Testament of the Christians. The Islamic War Manual, sometimes called the Qur'an, is a "book of peace"? Ghouse, get real.


Name: jenn
Date: Tuesday February 17, 2009
Time: 06:55:00 -0500

Comment

I usually keep a Holy koran in my lavatory and that saves me money from buying lavatory paper. Mashallah


Name: A Lie that is very near the Truth
Date: Tuesday February 17, 2009
Time: 07:22:08 -0500

Comment

Question: What is a lie that is very near the truth? Answer : You were born through the anus. That is a lie but very near the truth. In the same manner Islam is a lie but is very near the truth. That is why it was able to deceive more than a billion of humanity.


Name: Shafee al-Zindig
Date: Tuesday February 17, 2009
Time: 09:04:32 -0500

Comment

Quoted from debate: "We have created, for hell, many genii (races) of men...and they are like brute beasts" (Q7.179) >>> Some questions for Mike Ghouse: 1. How come such an educated guy like you (MBA and all) still believes in childish Arabic fairy tales of invisible beings like genii (jinns)? 2. Muslims exaggeratedly claim there are 1, 5 billion of them in the world. Does this number include genii, many of whom the moolas claim are Muslim? 3. According to your Quran, meteorites are missiles fired at spying genii. Do you accept this outlandish claim? 5. According to reliable Hadiths, bones are food for genii. Now my angry dog wants to know why nothing for him. I know Allah and Muhammad hate dogs, but still the poor thing misses his bones. Is this Allah’s justice? So many questions, so few answers! I have a lot more, but I’ll save them for later.


Name: mhw
Date: Tuesday February 17, 2009
Time: 10:38:27 -0500

Comment

It would be far easier to follow this and similar debates if the statements of Mike Ghouse were shown in a different font than those of MA Khan. Thanks


Name:
Date: Tuesday February 17, 2009
Time: 10:39:10 -0500

Comment

What a stupid way to divert the attention away from Islam by quoting phrases from bhagbad gita and christianity. Mike Ghouse's responses had no direct answer to the quotes in Quran. Krshina or Jesus didn't rape anyone, allow prostitution aka temporary marriage, order killings and committ murders just because they believed in a different doctrine. I am sick and tired of people trying to prove Mohammod wasn't a pedophile by stating that women reached earlier puberty at his time. 9 year old human is a child irrespective of time. Disgusting. Mike Ghouse's rhetoric is remisniscent of political debates where the party being questioned never answers the question. Islam needs to be either wiped out or be reformed drastically.


Name: Philip Saenz
Date: Tuesday February 17, 2009
Time: 11:20:57 -0500

Comment

Shafee Al-Zindig, I see you have been practicing in asking questions. Good going. I have another question to ask that dishonest Muslim dude out of Dallas who goes by the handle of Mike Ghouse. Mike, I believe you have kept up with the news. At least, I hope so. Mike Ghouse, have you noticed that Hindus, Buddhists, Catholics, Protestants and Jews, and members of other religions, except Islamists, are not strapping bombs around their waists, and then blowing them up in the middle of innocent Muslims, including little babies? Now, Mike, be an honest Muslim just for a little while. Okay? What book goads stupid Muslims to blow themselves up in the middle of crowd? Is it not The Islamic War Manual, sometimes called the Qur'an, that incites stupid Muslims to commit these dastardly atrocities? Come on, Ghouse, for once be an honest Muslim. Tell us what incites Muslims to commit these almost every day occurrences. Why is it that only Muslims commit these atrocities? If you give us a straight answer, we'll allow you to become our friend.


Name: Beowulf
Date: Tuesday February 17, 2009
Time: 13:26:51 -0500

Comment

Mr. Ghouse, you answered verses 7:179, 4:56, 3:85. These are easy enough to answer by saying that each religion has the concept of heaven and hell, reward and punishment. And you have used Hinduism as an example with the Bhagavad Gita as support. You fail to realize two things. First, the punishment of unbelievers who "fail", using the word from the translation you are using, to "grasp the truth" of islam (and actually this is easy to do since the quran is such a obfuscated and contradictory book) is entirely unjust. According to islam, mankind has this one life to find the truth. If a man rejects islam, as we do, on grounds that it is inhumane (clearly it is, due to such punishments as death for apostasy) that person will then suffer eternity in hell. The punishment does not match the crime and it is further complicated by the fact that there is no means whatsoever, within or outside the quran, to prove that islam is true. You claim that muhammad was a fulfillment of biblical prophecy, that he was predicted as the bringer of truth? Well, the Christians also hold that he fulfills biblical prophecy as a false prophet predicted by Christ. So who are we supposed to believe? See my point? Thus, if a man rejects islam after studying it (as I and many others do), he will (according to your dubious religion) be punished eternally for failing to believe in something which he cannot prove exists, and which nobody can prove exists with any degree of certainty! Such a punishment is a legal paradox and a legal fallacy. It implies that a man can be punished for not believing in something which cannot be proven to exist! One might as well threaten to punish another if that person fails to believe in an invisible, unknowable, unobservable talking teapot whose voice is inaudible! That would be absurd since nobody could prove the existence of such a thing! Furthermore, the quranic concept of justice with regard to eternal torment establishes an infinite punishment for a finite crime. It is clearly unjust. Hence allah is unjust. This forms a contradiction with statements in the quran saying that allah is just. Since the quran then produces a contradiction the assumption that it is true is a false assumption. Hence the quran is false and islam is false, as we all knew to begin with. The second thing you fail to realize is that no concept of a permanent hell exists in Hinduism. Even a non-Hindu who has studied Bhagavad Gita (such as myself) understands that there is no concept of a permanent hell in Hinduism. There is only the cycle of death and reincarnation in which a soul continues until achieving enlightened transcendence/perfection by disentanglement from material and bodily attachment. In this way, Hinduism is more merciful in its outlook than islam, since in Hinduism an imperfect soul has virtually infinite attempts to achieve the highest goal. Such a system is monotonic: the number of "saved" souls constantly increases. This is a much more beautiful idea than that espoused by islam. And if I were to judge the truth of a religion by its beauty I would be forced to choose Hinduism over islam. So based on all of this, your comparison of islam's tormenting hellfire to Hinduism's cycle of death and reincarnation is fatally flawed and negates your argument. Nevertheless, I will ignore this fatal flaw for a moment. Even if we assume that you succeeded (and you certainly did not due to the flaw I mentioned) in defending the verses 7:179, 4:56, and 3:85 by saying that every religion has a concept of punishment and reward, you have opened the debate to questions about the justice of such punishments and rewards. And as I have shown, the quranic concept of justice with regard to eternal punishment leads to a contradiction with the quranic concept of mercy, forcing one to abandon the claim that the quran it true without contradiction! As usual, we find that islam is false due to its contradictions, lack of flexibility, lack of beauty, lack of respect for human rights, lack of the concept of extending equal treatment to all regardless of religion or lack thereof, lack of logical foundation, and above all the lack of clarity.


Name: Ali to Mike Ghouse,you are deadier than Bin Laden
Date: Tuesday February 17, 2009
Time: 13:35:01 -0500

Comment

Mike : You the so called moderate muslims are deadlier than Bin Laden. He is honest but you are decietful. I fully agree with Dr Habira Phd who wrote in his book God's tears:"The so-called moderate Muslims leave the violent basis of Islam unchallenged for the terrorist to implement, while they present the ritualistic side to the world and thereby deceive it. Moderate Islam is more deadly because while the terrorists are clear enemies, the moderates make inroads into `infidel' lands, and deceive the host cultures until the terrorists could do the dirty work. Without the moderate Islamic façade, the terrorists cannot survive because they will be quickly exposed. History is replete with example after example of this typically Muslim deceitful strategy of advance". And Mike you are such a person who by your anics are putting a knife in the back of your hosts who took you in and are feeding you.


Name: Khalaf to Mike
Date: Tuesday February 17, 2009
Time: 13:44:46 -0500

Comment

By presenting islam as a religion of peace you are putting the face of a harmless critter on a deadly scrpion.You did not answer any question , you are believer in "if you cannot dazzle with brillance then baffle with bullshit"


Name: Kinana
Date: Wednesday February 18, 2009
Time: 05:42:46 -0500

Comment

Mike Ghouse said 'There is no such verse in Qur'an.' Then in his reply he drops that accusation, as if he did not make it. So why did he say it? He must have just wanted to deceive people who would not bother to look up the verses themselves. Then he says: 'Terrorism is committed by individuals and not religions.’ This is very sloppy. The physical act of murder is a human action but the question is does Islam encourages such behaviour. Does he deny this? I look forward to more of this exchange. Thank you Mr Khan.


Name: Philip Saenz
Date: Wednesday February 18, 2009
Time: 21:40:15 -0500

Comment

Jenn, I tried the Koran as you suggested. But I found the pages a bit rough. So I went back to American tissue. You must be a tough lady. Or maybe I'm just a sissy.


Name: Glorious Day for Humanity
Date: Wednesday February 18, 2009
Time: 23:55:17 -0500

Comment

A glorious day for humanity is when the Koran is displayed in a museum as an artifact.


Name: Mr mike goose
Date: Thursday February 19, 2009
Time: 03:59:33 -0500

Comment

Dear readers, one correction my name is not Mike Ghouse . My original name is mr. Mike GOOSE. So dear DEAR READER CALL ME "MR.GOOSE". By the way how is my article. I like everyone to convert to islam after reading my article. You will surely get big breasted virgins.


Name: vbv
Date: Thursday February 19, 2009
Time: 04:58:51 -0500

Comment

Mike Ghouse should be sent to Swat valley in Pakistan top have a taste of islam in practice. He will find the shortest route to Allah's lewd paradise. Pakistan's "switzerland" has turned into killing fields and a living hell for humans , and I emphasize 'human' not subhumans like the talibans.


Name: rk
Date: Thursday February 19, 2009
Time: 23:21:04 -0500

Comment

Kudos to Beowulf! That was a beautiful rebuttal of Mike Ghouse's rebuttal. Two things need to be remembered: 1. If God is all merciful then the punishment must equal the crime and also since God is merciful and he was the one who was responsible to create the human being in the first place, the human being must have infinite attempts at achieving liberation. I don't see that in Islam. Nor do I see an ancient fallible warlord like Mohammed being a dispenser of justice even if people were to go astray much less being worthy of emulation. Also if God is so merciful why isn't he admitting the possibility of mankind not following his prescribed religion? Equating disbelief in Islam to Adharma is dubious to say the least. 2. I don't see a single attempt at actually proving the validity of Quran except by quoting other scriptures which were anyway held null and void after the advent of Quran since the Quran was supposed to be the Lord's final word. In short, this entire rebuttal smacks of the devil quoting the bible. You are quoting discredited religions, mentioning that you are in alignment with them thereby making the claim that your religion is valid and also stating that your religion is going to eclipse the discredited religion. This is beyond circular reasoning !


Name: Templar
Date: Friday February 20, 2009
Time: 07:48:56 -0500

Comment

Look guys: GET THE BIG PICTURE: 1. Any religion that threathens those that wish to leave it behind with murder is already evil, in and of itself. 2. To say that the Koran does not contain violent verses simply means that you haven't read it. 3. As far as Mike Ghouse's verse + the verse before + after strategy goes: Haven't you noticed? The very pattern of a large part of the Koran is: 1st verse: Do this/don't do that, 2nd verse: for that's what X didn't do/did, and 3rd verse: Look at what happened to them. Sometimes all these 3 elements are within 1 verse. Then it usually follows: God will punish you like he punished those. If he doesn't, he is the Merciful, and the All-wise. In other words, there's always an escape-clause, just in case the Act-of-God called upon in the previous verse does not occur. It is true that in a number of instances, the so-called 'People from the Book (=Jews and Christians) are singled out from punishment (but there are other verses against them, too). But to quote the Baghavad Gita is the very hypocrisy: Since they do not believe in One God, they would not even count, face-to-face with Islam! Even more importantly, though, is this: How do Muslims understand their own 'holy' book? I haven't met a single one (ot of the many) that did not claim that the very reason why the Koran had to be written, why Mohamed was given his mission, was that Jews and Christians had (on purpose) falsified the Scriptures. So we're pretty lucky to get away with that, I suppose. And then, perplexingly enough, they claim that those (purportedly falsified) Scriptures are also holy to them, and only second to the Koran (?!). Logic? It's absent in today's Islam. It seems that the tolerant Islam of the 9th, 10th and 16th century was the Islam looking for enrichment from other cultures, today's Islam is entirely self-absorbed, with an evert present victim-mentality (what about all those put to the sword that did not want to convert?), what about the (previously) non-Islamic countries conquered by Islam (including Israel!)? I have nothing against muslims personnally, I'd just like them to grow up in an ever globalizing world. For it is they that will lose out, all the quicker when the oil runs dry. So do not look to Iran, or Hezbollah, or Hamas. Look to countries like Jordan (which arguably has done most for Palestinians), Tunisia (stable economy), Morocco (cf. the new king's new laws).


Name: RS
Date: Saturday February 21, 2009
Time: 18:45:05 -0500

Comment

Well done Mr. khan!!! I like the way you have posed the questions. I read the reply lets see how oblique the replies go. Mike sites Geeta and uses karma school of thought to justify Quranc verses. I wonder why do they need a belief system to interpret quran when that very system has been considered not worth second look, after all it does mention idolatory. The man has not obviously heard of " i am the medical doctor Z naik". All I see is rehashing naikism in his reply.


 
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