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Films on Muhammad would be the Last Nail on the Coffin of Islam

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Islam survives only by maintaining a noble and sacred aura surrounding Muhammad's person and character, which Muslims do via unbridled lying and deception to hide the truths of Muhammad's life and even by terror. When the sacred aura is dismantled through true depiction of Muhammad life in movies, Islam implodes with it... And the countdown to that has started....


What Makes the Muslim Angry?


(If your government has blocked youtube, use this proxy software:
https://www.torproject.org/download/download)

Muslims around the world claim that Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam, was the greatest man ever born on earth, and his life and deeds are holy and divine. So, if someone makes film on the life of Muhammad, they should be proud and hail the effort. They should be saying that even a non-Muslim, being inspired by the holiness of the Prophet, has come forward to make a film on the life and deeds of the Prophet. They should also be pleased, if the film truly represented the life of Muhammad, because such a film would impress the viewers and tempt them to embrace Islam, something they so crave for. But, on the contrary, the film “Innocence of Muslims”, a trailer of which is presently being shown on Youtube, depicting the Prophet’s life, has made Muslims filled in anger and rage.

In India, innumerable films have been made on the life and times of various Hindu religious leaders, gurus and avatars. But not even a single film has been made Hindu viewers enraged and furious. But the rage of the Muslims in response to this film suggests that the film may have portrayed the life of Muhammad in a vile, despicable and evil manner, thereby raising anger amongst Muslims around the world.

But three articles – namely, "The Legends of Prophet Muhammad by Jahanshah Rashidian”, “Innocence of Muslims: A Disgusting, Despicable, Reprehensible, Offensive Movie?” by Jake Neuman and “Another Movie on Muhammad and Islam Coming Soon from Spain” by Imran Firasat – say that the film in circulation have not indulged in such contrived degradation and exposure of the Prophet, but the film shows a rather true picture of the prophet’s life.

Interesting enough is that Imran Firasat, a Pakistani ex-Muslim living in Spain, has undertaken the making of another movie on the life of Prophet Muhammad. He says, “It will be the first movie on Muhammad to be produced by an ex-Muslim. For that reason, I can make you believe that you will find something special in that movie. Don’t miss it. I aim to produce the movie in at least 4 to 5 languages, so that Muslims from various countries can understand that and give a serious thought to their religious belief.

Mr. Firasat has also thrown a challenge before the entire Muslim community, saying: “I am starting work on the movie from tomorrow morning. I invite Muslims to stop me if they can. It is my challenge that my movie will be in front of the world very soon. …..I’m challenging Muslims again, I am starting work on the movie right now for exposing the cunning and self-claimed prophet of Islam. Stop me if you can. The countdown to release of the movie starts now.

In fact, Muhammad was indeed an evil person in the garb of a prophet and Muslims are trying to hide his true and portray an imaginary Muhammad for the saving the face of Islam. How deceptive can Muslim authors be in this affair? An example may be cited here for the convenience of the readers. Tariq Ramadan, professor of Contemporary Islamic Studies at Oxford University, believes that the life of human prophet Muhammad can teach us many lessons. In his book, In the Footsteps of the Prophet: Lessons from the Life of Muhammad (2007), he depicts Muhammad as a deeply spiritual man with great respect and love for women. According to him, Muhammad was not without faults. But he was tolerant to other faiths. “And unlike his followers, he allowed Muslims to abandon their religion, and personally permitted an Abyssinian Muslim to convert to Christianity”, says Ramadan.

From the comments of the three authors, as presented above, it becomes evident that the producer of the film “Innocence of Muslims” has depicted a rather true life of Muhammad without any serious exaggeration or forgery whatsoever in order to malign the glorious Prophet. Maker of the upcoming film, Imran Firasat, has no such vile intention either. More importantly, if a film-maker presents the life of the Prophet erroneously, Muslims have the right to go to court and fight such evil attempts legally. Last year, the Dutch MP Geert Wilders (the maker of the short film FITNA), wrote an article “Time has come to Expose Muhammad”, declaring that he is going to make a film on the life and deeds of Muhammad. Dr Ali Sina, the well-known ex-Muslim scholar and the founder of Faith Freedom International, is also talking about making a film on the life of Muhammad for many years.

All these information should make Muslims happy, because these people are suddenly coming forward to propagate the divine life of Muhammad and the divine faith originated by him. Why all these attempts make Muslims scared and angry instead? The reason might be that, through these films, some people are trying to expose some unpalatable and inedible truth, which Muslims try their best to hide. They try to hide these truths because if those facts are made public, Islam, a doctrine of perverted sex and violence, will lose its face. More importantly, these films will help make the civilized people of the world aware of the barbaric atrocities and immoral deeds of Muhammad. As a result, Islam will be condemned globally. People will know that Muslims are selling a cruel killer, a devil and a lustful despot as a divine Prophet. Most of all, sullying Muhammad’s Prophetic image in such manner would bring the collapse of his creed, Islam.

In the article “The Passion of the Vampire-Prophet,” author Sujit Das, wrote: “Often a question arises in our mind, why the Muslim clerics are reluctant to make a movie on Prophet Muhammad to promote Islam?.... The answer is simple. Islam is a barbaric religion which is completely devoid of spirituality. There is only deception, hate, murder, bloodshed, rape, delusion, terrorism, crime, suicide-bombing, honor-killing etc…etc. …In spite of this, if a film is produced on Muhammad’s honest biography, it will be a horror movie – a vampire movie that is set in background of extreme lawlessness of seventh century Arabia and Prophet Muhammad being the vampire itself.

The Wikipedia gives a list of 15 movies made on Muhammad and Islam. Out of these, 3 are based solely on the life and deeds of Muhammad. These are:

  1. The Life of The Last Prophet (This Islamic historical movie was labeled as one of the greatest movies about Muhammad ever made.)
  2. Muhammad: The Last Prophet (An animated historical film about the rise of the Islamic religion), and,
  3. Muhammad: Legacy of a Prophet (A documentary that explains the life of Muhammad from birth to death and his contributions to the cultures of the time.)

These films have, undoubtedly, presented a sugar-coated Muhammad by concealing his lustful, cruel and demonic deeds. Had any of these films projected the true color of Muhammad, Muslims across the world would have demonstrated violently as they are now doing over the film “Innocence of Muslims”.

Five Pillars of Islam

According to Islamic scriptures, the political ideology of sex and violence, called religion of Islamic, rests on five pillars and they are,

  1. the shahada (Iman)
  2. daily prayers (salat)
  3. almsgiving (zakāt)
  4. fasting during Ramadan (sawm) and the
  5. pilgrimage to Mecca (hajj) at least once in a lifetime.

The first pillar shahada contains six kalmias or oaths and they are (1) Kalimah Tayyibah, (2) Kalima Shahaadat, (3) Kalimah Tamjeed, (4) Kalimah Tawheed, (5) Kalima Astighfar and (6) Kalima Rud-e-Kuffer. Out of these six kalemas the first one or Kalimah Tayyibah is most important and it reads “La ilaha illallah, Muhammadur Rasulu'Llah” – (there is no god except Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah). Some scholars refer this kalmia as the soul of Islam. A slight disbelief in this kalema turns even a devout Muslim instantly into a kafir. So, a Muslim has to maintain a firm and unwavering belief in the second part of the kalmia that says “Muhammad is the messenger of Allah”. Hence the image Muhammad is to be kept in high esteem, so that it may not raise the slightest disbelieve in his prophethood.

So, Islam may be compared to an extremely brittle fancy glassware, hanging from the ceiling with the help of fine thread, called Kalima Tayyibah. Slightest disbelieve in the prophethood of Muhammad, the thread will snap and the entire doctrine of Islam would fall on the ground and be broken into pieces. This is the reason why Muslims are ready to tolerate any adverse criticism of Allah, but not of Muhammad. Nearly a year ago, a group of Bangladeshi apostates living in the U.K. issued a statement explaining the reason why they have abandoned Islam. Aired by the BBC, the said declaration also explained why they do not consider Muhammad a prophet. It reads,

“One who claims to be a messenger of God is expected to live a saintly life. He must not be given to lust, he must not be a sexual pervert, and he must not be a rapist, a highway robber, a war criminal, a mass murderer or an assassin. One who claims to be a messenger of God must have a superior character. He must stand above the vices of the people of his time. Yet Muhammad’s life is that of a gangster godfather. He raided merchant caravans, looted innocent people, massacred entire male populations and enslaved the women and children. He raped the women captured in war after killing their husbands and told his followers that it is okay to have sex with their captives (Quran 33:50). He assassinated those who criticized him and executed them when he came to power and became de facto despot of Arabia. Muhammad was bereft of human compassion. He was an obsessed man with his dreams of grandiosity and could not forgive those who stood in his way.”

The statement continues, “Muhammad was a narcissist, like Hitler, Saddam or Stalin. He was astute and knew how to manipulate people, but his emotional intelligence was less evolved than that of a 6-year-old child. He simply could not feel the pain of others. He brutally massacred thousands of innocent people and pillaged their wealth. His ambitions were big and as a narcissist he honestly believed he is entitled to do as he pleased and commit all sorts of crimes and his evil deeds are justified.

Why Islam would perish?

Above discussions would make the reader grasp how devastating it would be if these films uncover the real face of Islam to the civilized world. Last year, I wrote an regarding Geert Wilders’ intention of making a film on Muhammad, entitled “Geert Wilders’ Film on Muhammad may Spell the Death of Islam”. In it, I explained why damage to Muhammad’s image would bring about the death of Islam. In the present context, I repeat some of the points from that article. To begin that article, I wrote,

The Internet has become a serious threat to the survival of Islam. Through internet, it has been easy to unmask the true face of Islam and its originator Muhammad. It has enabled critics to overcome the taboo of telling the truth about Islam and Muhammad… Islam stands on the projection of Muhammad as a perfect, sinless human being, but as his real vile character becomes exposed through the Internet, the foundation of Islam becomes increasing weak on its way to collapse. That's why Islamic countries try to block many Websites that expose the true face Islam and its founder.

On April 2, the RNW News Desk published an article, Wilders’Mohammed : rapist killer or compassionate activist?, authored by Klaas den Tek and Myrtille van Bommel. “A barbarian, a mass murderer - that’s how Dutch MP Geert Wilders says he will portray the prophet Mohammed in a new film. Hirsi Ali sees him as depraved, the Pope as tyrannical. Others think of him as elusive or an invention, and some consider him a tolerant philosopher or a human rights activist. Six views to assess Wilders’ claims about Mohammed”, the authors say.

The cruel leader of a band of plundering, murderous, rapist robbers from Medina” - that’s how Dutch MP Wilders says he wants to depict the prophet in his new film, due in 2012 as a sequel to his 2008 anti-Qur’an short FITNA. To support his view Wilders cites a biography of the prophet written by Flemish psychologist Herman Somers: “The sources describe orgies of savagery in which hundreds of people were strangled, their hands and feet chopped off, eyes pricked out and entire tribes exterminated.” Wilders says he wants to “unmask” Muhammad; so that the Muslims can turn their backs on Islam.

How Islam could survive if Muslims turn their backs to Islam?

Comments (122)Add Comment
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Great Article
written by infidel , September 20, 2012
It's a great article. I hope more people come forward with films, animated series etc to expose the real dirty face of islam
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very nice article
written by parvez , September 20, 2012
expose the truth
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Mr.
written by Mark Mallarde , September 20, 2012
This might be of interest: An "interview" with Mohammed. There are other Islam related pieces as well. http://www.lightlybraisedturni...-mohammed/
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...
written by Reed Wilson. , September 20, 2012
Many more such films and cartoons are forthcoming which will develop immunity and tolerance in saner people.

There is too much filth is added to the literature of all religions. That filth might surface in course of time.

The climate is going to be unpleasant.
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Reed Wilson
written by Dwito , September 20, 2012
The climate is going to be unpleasant.

Are you worried, Reed? Why your truth about the nonsense of hadiths is not being bought by your fellow brethren?
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True face of Mohammad
written by balam , September 20, 2012
An excellent article which has lifted the veil from the UGLY face of Mohammad and his mad ideology called Islam.The short film has shaken the Muslim world of its roots.No wonder they had to ban the film in the Muslim countries.Such films every so often could paralyse MUSLIMS who are already mentally paralysed.The best solution would be to expell the Muslims from the West to avoid clash of civilizations and clash of cultures.It would save the future of CIVILIZED WEST based on JUDEO-CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES.
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...
written by Reed Wilson. , September 20, 2012
Dwito. "Fellow brethren"!! Who is not?

God is sympathetic and pity those who ignore warnings and guidance

يَا حَسْرَةً عَلَى الْعِبَادِ ۚ مَا يَأْتِيهِم مِّن رَّسُولٍ إِلَّا كَانُوا بِهِ يَسْتَهْزِئُونَ

Woe to الْعِبَادِ people! Whenever a Messenger came to them, they mocked him. 36:30

Dwito Arabic يَا حَسْرَةً is not same as woe in English.

One can be only sorry for the people who mock and ridicule. Jesus Christ was ridiculed to an extent of physical humiliation. God expects tolerance. He is His messenger and not messenger of people.

Yes Dwito I am worried. Worried for unpleasant climate. Everyone would be affected by that.

You would also not like vulgarity.


0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , September 20, 2012
Dr. Radhasyam Brahmachari. I appreciate your optimism. Also I can understand how much difficult for you to compose the starting sentence as:

"Islam survives only by maintaining a noble and sacred aura surrounding Muhammad's person and character, which Muslims do via unbridled lying and deception to hide the truths of Muhammad's life and even by terror."

There seems some noise there.
.
0
Funny Article
written by Malem , September 20, 2012
The article is entirely based on opinions and heresay from other people. I am guessing this is a Doctor of Prevarication maybe. The people making these films, they are really not movies by any reach, are just attention whores. Take the latest one that came out on YouTube, it was so bad it made me laugh. However the reaction the person who makde the films wanted was riots, sort of like yelling fire in a theatre. Now he is crying because soem radicals are chasing him. The people who riot and act on on these films are also in the wrong, the best reaction would be none, just ignore. Back to the Dr's article, it is mainly baseless garbage, and to refer to Jake Nueman just proves that further. So instead of reaching out to dialogue with other religions, you choose to paint a false picture of them, try and take away their freedom of religion etc..they tried that in Germany many years ago, didnt turn out well.
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Malem...
written by Amboyduke , September 20, 2012
REACHING OUT to dialogue with OTHER religions !!! ???
Apparently, Obama tried to do just that when he took office and look how it turned out...LOL
You muslims have no honour, no reason, no sanity, and no true intellect.
The movie depicts islam in the proper light to a "T".
The actions of your "bros" worldwide prove it on a daily basis.

You are ever the fool Malem...will you ever get the balls to admit to yourself that islam teaches the exact shit that is in that movie and it is an accurate depiction of the insane, morally bankrupt life of your "prophet"...?

This is no "false picture of them"...and to compare this to Germany in the 30's/40's is laughable...

If world Jewry was doing the garbage in the 30's that you and yoiur "bros" are doing today...the enter world would have supported a "final solution"...

Comparing 21st century islam to 20th century Jewry is farcical and idiotic.
You are a fool.
0
Easy
written by RK , September 20, 2012
I never thought creating unrest in muslim world is so easy. All you need to do is make few movies ridiculing Islam or Mohammed. As soon as the movie is made and a little publicity is given to it, they will start killing each other and bring their countries to standstill.


0
@ Shabeer
written by fineliving56 , September 20, 2012
And to all the Muslim obsufikators, who like to show only the nice but tiny parts of islam and ignore all other large number of bad parts of it …. I actually do not blame them, but truth has to come out good or bad, and Muslims have to deal with it and have to take responsibility for what Islam teaches and defending Islam by ignoring the bad parts is nothing but lying by omission …


Qur'an 5:3
This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.

Qur'an 54:17
And We have indeed made the Qur’an easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember (or receive admonition)?

>>>>>

Qur'an 9:88
The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah's Cause.

Qur'an 9:5
Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.

Qur'an 9:112
The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.

Qur'an 9:29
Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.

Ishaq:325 "Muslims, fight in Allah's Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious."

Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."

[to be continued]
0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , September 20, 2012
RK. You rightly write " All you need to do is make few movies ridiculing Islam or Mohammed."

And if they hire some Maulana's to put oil on the fire, it will do laurels. Hiring them is not difficult. Ridiculing Islam is not needed. Just Muhammad will do.

Quran does not ask them to get mad on such ridiculing. It rather shows sympathy for the doer. I give some quotes from Quran.

حَسْرَةً عَلَى الْعِبَادِ ۚ مَا يَأْتِيهِمْ مِنْ رَسُولٍ إِلَّا كَانُوا بِهِ يَسْتَهْزِئُونَ

Woe to الْعِبَادِ people! Whenever a Messenger came to them, they mocked him. 36:30

فَإِنْ كَذَّبُوكَ فَقَدْ كُذِّبَ رُسُلٌ مِنْ قَبْلِكَ جَاءُوا بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ وَالزُّبُرِ وَالْكِتَابِ الْمُنِيرِ

"But if they reject you, so indeed were rejected before you apostles who came with clear arguments and scriptures and the illumining book."- Qur'an 3:184

كَذَّبَتْ قَبْلَهُمْ قَوْمُ نُوحٍ وَالْأَحْزَابُ مِنْ بَعْدِهِمْ ۖ وَهَمَّتْ كُلُّ أُمَّةٍ بِرَسُولِهِمْ لِيَأْخُذُوهُ ۖ وَجَادَلُوا بِالْبَاطِلِ لِيُدْحِضُوا بِهِ الْحَقَّ فَأَخَذْتُهُمْ ۖ فَكَيْفَ كَانَ عِقَابِ

"But before them, who denied the Signs,- the People of Noah, and the Confederates after them; and every People plotted against their prophet, to seize him, and disputed by means of vanities, therewith to condemn the Truth; but it was I that seized them! and how was the requital!" Qur'an 40:5

Do you find any justification of unrest after this guidance from Quran RK?
0
mr.
written by radan , September 20, 2012
One more very nice article written by Dr. Brahmachari.
Films are made on Moses, Jesus and Gandhi. There were no problems.
But when films are made on Muham(mad) fully based on their shahih hadiths there is vandalism by the followers of religion of peace.
0
mr.
written by radan , September 20, 2012
One more very nice article written by Dr. Brahmachari.
Films are made on Moses, Jesus and Gandhi. There were no problems.
But when films are made on Muham(mad) fully based on their shahih hadiths there is vandalism by the followers of religion of peace.
0
...
written by RK , September 20, 2012
I have no desire to find out what is written in Quran or Hadith or Bible. All I am interested is peaceful co-existance of the civilizations. As long as you practice your religion within four walls and do not disturb me, I don't care what you believe.

For some reason, I see this irrational behaviour happening with muslims frequently. Earlier it was some jokes by a Danish cartoonist and now this movie. May be the good muslims ( if there are any ) need to introspect and come up with a solution to this madness.
0
@ Shabeer - continued
written by fineliving56 , September 20, 2012
Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"

Qur'an:9:14 "Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them."

Ishaq:300 "I am fighting in Allah's service. This is piety and a good deed. In Allah's war I do not fear as others should. For this fighting is righteous, true, and good."

Ishaq:587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

Qur'an:8:65 "O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding."

Ishaq:326 "Prophet exhort the believers to fight. If there are twenty good fighters they will defeat two hundred for they are a senseless people. They do not fight with good intentions nor for truth."

Hadith, Bukhari:V4B52N63 "A man whose face was covered with an iron mask came to the Prophet and said, 'Allah's Apostle! Shall I fight or embrace Islam first?' The Prophet said, 'Embrace Islam first and then fight.' So he embraced Islam, and was martyred. Allah's Apostle said, 'A Little work, but a great reward.'"

Bukhari:V4B53N386 "Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: 'Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.'"

Hadith, Muslim:C34B20N4668 "The Messenger said: 'Anybody who equips a warrior going to fight in the Way of Allah is like one who actually fights. And anybody who looks after his family in his absence is also like one who actually fights."

Qur'an:9:38 "Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to go forth and fight in Allah's Cause you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you go forth, He will afflict and punish you with a painful doom, and put others in your place."

Qur'an:9:123 "Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you."

[to be continued]
0
Political Backgrounds
written by Gnostic , September 20, 2012
In my view the attacks are not so much driven by the common people since many of them are uneducated or even illiterate, without internet access and many of them have probably never seen the movies.

But who is behind the mob?

I think it is the ulema and others, political rulers who strongly rely on islam. They are the parasites who receive the oil billions, those who receive the bribes and who never pay taxes.

On the other hand, if people are asking for jobs, education and money for infrastructure they will hear that there is no money because of the west or because of the jews and most muslims believe that because they were always teached just to believe without questioning anything!

I think islamism could survive so long because it never made it into the government. The only exception is Iran but here we can clearly see that most people do not believe in islamic rulership any more. Many have become much more moderate muslims in Iran or even ex-mulims.

I expect the same for other countries like Egypt when the islamist governments once fail to deliver.
0
To RK, Reed Wilson
written by Archpagan , September 20, 2012
Muslims are like babies who can be easily incited into fit of anger by mocking or by corrupting his name. Will they mature ever? What do you feel, dear Reed? Right now, Pakistanis are on the rampage before the US embassy in Islamabad. This only goes to prove how insecure the Muslims feel about their religion.
0
@ Shabeer - continued
written by fineliving56 , September 20, 2012
Qur'an:8:72 "Those who accepted Islam and left their homes to fight in Allah's Cause with their possessions and persons, and those who gave (them) asylum, aid, and shelter, those who harbored them - these are allies of one another. You are not responsible for protecting those who embraced Islam but did not leave their homes [to fight] until they do so." [Another translation reads:] "You are only called to protect Muslims who fight."

Muslim:C9B1N31 "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the Messenger and in all that I have brought."

Bukhari:V9B84N59 "Whoever says this will save his property and life from me.'"

Qur'an:8:73 "The unbelieving infidels are allies. Unless you (Muslims) aid each other (fighting as one united block to make Allah's religion victorious), there will be confusion and mischief. Those who accepted Islam, left their homes to fight in Allah's Cause (al-Jihad), as well as those who give them asylum, shelter, and aid - these are (all) Believers: for them is pardon and bountiful provision (in Paradise)."

Tabari IX:69 "Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah's helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing him is a small matter to us."

Qur'an:48:16 "Say (Muhammad) to the wandering desert Arabs who lagged behind: 'You shall be invited to fight against a people given to war with mighty prowess. You shall fight them until they surrender and submit. If you obey, Allah will grant you a reward, but if you turn back, as you did before, He will punish you with a grievous torture."

Qur'an:48:22 "If the unbelieving infidels fight against you, they will retreat. (Such has been) the practice (approved) of Allah in the past: no change will you find in the ways of Allah."

Qur'an:47:4 "When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah's Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam."

Qur'an:47:31 "And We shall try you until We know those among you who are the fighters."

[to be continued]
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Fineliving56
written by Islam-Watch Pastor , September 20, 2012
You can trust that Reed Wilson and Malem have explanation to all those hate creed you quoted from their scriptures. One of the defence mechanisms is that you are quoting out of context; the second one is that you need scholars like Reed Wilson to interpret those verses for you.

Anyway I think the world is gradually waking up from sleep. We don’t need Mullahs, Imam and Scholars to interpret the Quran and hadiths to understand the Islamic scriptures.

My worry is that why aren’t Muslim happy when despicable, shameless characters of their prophet is exposed, they just jump to the streets to kill and destroy properties. If they are so ashamed of the characters of their prophet why do the trust such person for the salvation of their soul? Why are they not proud of their prophet’s deeds and character?
As for me I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ because is the power unto salvation for everyone that believes. Romans 1:16

You can depict Jesus Christ to be anything you like, his characters and deeds are there for any literate person to read and understand. I cannot fight for him but he will fight for me.

Cheers
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PS to Reed Wilson
written by Archpagan , September 20, 2012
'Do you find any justification of unrest after this guidance from Quran RK?'

The verses you quoted above are 'vestigial verses' similar to 'vestigial organs' like man's nipples, appendix to large intestine, tail-bone in human body called coxics etc.
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Maullana will always incite.
written by Reed Wilson. , September 20, 2012
Archpagan. You write "The verses you quoted above are 'vestigial verses' similar to 'vestigial organs' like man's nipples, appendix to large intestine, tail-bone in human body called coxics etc."

Archpagan you are getting fussy by aging. There are no vestigial verses nor the things you mention are vestiges. It is Coccyx not coxics,

We should not digress. It is serious matter.

The verses are most the time part of message and I select such verses where message is understood without giving long message comprising of many verses.

I selected for you 36:30, 3:184 and 40:5 which tell that ridiculing and mocking of apostles was common and was lamentable and does not call for anger and unrest.

Instead of thanking me Archpagan you come with a fresh debate of vestiges.

The Maulanas are interested in disruption. They eat on them. I give here two more verses on controlling anger and on forgiving.

"And those who restrain their anger and pardon people. And Allah loves the doers of good to others" 3:133.

"Those who spend in prosperity and in adversity, who repress anger, and who pardon men; verily, Allâh loves (Al-Muhsinûn) the good doers". 3:134

If you cannot find beauty in the above message Archpagan, you have lost the faculty of admiring beauty.


0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , September 20, 2012
Intelllectuals like Archpagan, Dr. Brhamchari etc are discussing a 2 Pence film. What happened to them?

tafu barto ai charkhe gardan tafu

I wish if duh_swami was here and talking sensible.
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@ Shabeer - continued
written by fineliving56 , September 20, 2012
Tabari VI:138 "Those present at the oath of Aqabah had sworn an allegiance to Muhammad. It was a pledge of war against all men. Allah had permitted fighting."

Tabari VI:139 "Allah had given his Messenger permission to fight by revealing the verse 'And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah.'"

Qur'an:9:19 "Do you make the giving of drink to pilgrims, or the maintenance of the Mosque, equal to those who fight in the Cause of Allah? They are not comparable in the sight of Allah. Those who believe, and left their homes, striving with might, fighting in Allah's Cause with their goods and their lives, have the highest rank in the sight of Allah."

Ishaq:550 "The Muslims met them with their swords. They cut through many arms and skulls. Only confused cries and groans could be heard over our battle roars and snarling."

Qur'an:5:94 "Believers, Allah will make a test for you in the form of a little game in which you reach out for your lances. Any who fails this test will have a grievous punishment."

Ishaq:578 "Crushing the heads of the infidels and splitting their skulls with sharp swords, we continually thrust and cut at the enemy. Blood gushed from their deep wounds as the battle wore them down. We conquered bearing the Prophet's fluttering war banner. Our cavalry was submerged in rising dust, and our spears quivered, but by us the Prophet gained victory."

Tabari IX:22 "The Prophet continued to besiege the town, fighting them bitterly."

Tabari IX:25 "By Allah, I did not come to fight for nothing. I wanted a victory over Ta'if so that I might obtain a slave girl from them and make her pregnant."
Tabari IX:82 "The Messenger sent Khalid with an army of 400 to Harith [a South Arabian tribe] and ordered him to invite them to Islam for three days before he fought them. If they were to respond and submit, he was to teach them the Book of Allah, the Sunnah of His Prophet, and the requirements of Islam. If they should decline, then he was to fight them."

Tabari IX:88 "Abdallah Azdi came to the Messenger, embraced Islam, and became a good Muslim. Allah's Apostle invested Azdi with the authority over those who had surrendered and ordered him to fight the infidels from the tribes of Yemen. Azdi left with an army by the Messenger's command. The Muslims besieged them for a month. Then they withdrew, setting a trap. When the Yemenites went in pursuit, Azdi was able to inflict a heavy loss on them."

Ishaq:530 "Get out of his way, you infidel unbelievers. Every good thing goes with the Apostle. Lord, I believe in his word. We will fight you about its interpretations as we have fought you about its revelation with strokes that will remove heads from shoulders and make enemies of friends."

[to be continued]
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Islam
written by Yasir , September 21, 2012
haha ,Do you really think that by adding false info about Muhammad and making such abusing videos ,Islam will disappear from world????you can just dream about it .
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Muslims are so poor!
written by Gnostic , September 21, 2012
Do you think that Christians or Buddhists would become aggressive because of an idiot producing a disgusting movie? Why do muslims never learn to stay above such things? By becoming aggressive muslims only provide evidence that they are even more stupid than the people who produced the movie.

In reality it is more or less economy what counts. Maybe economy is not all but without economy, everything is nothing. If they run out of money, even the most radical islamist would kiss the ass of a pig if there is no other way to survive. We will watch such things happen very soon!
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Gen.Dostum
written by Jimat Khorasan , September 21, 2012
It is OK for Muslims & Islam to parody / insult / look down on other faiths as jokes and sinful to follow.
Well, it is payback time for all the humiliation inflicted by raging Islamic conquest & destruction of old, decent civilisations, cultures and people. Islam will be exposed for its crimes and bloodshed in its history and that time is drawing near!

Take a good look a what is happening to Muslims in Islamic countries...from Morocco to Indonesia.
Islam is ready to self-destruct....& they are the ones pressing the button for the implosion. I will celebrate the occasion because all Muslims can be safely put away in their promised Janna.....it will surely stink...with all of them in one place!!
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Amboy
written by MAlem , September 21, 2012
Good to see you showing your true colors, your statement "You people...." reallys says it all. You see it doesnt really have to do with religion, your just a racist bigot, which is sad. I would have hoped you would have been brought up better and learned to let others live their lives and not judge people by their color, race or religion. Maybe its tough for you to do so, but I would say you need to look at yourself before judging others lad.

Its also pretty scary that you throw out a hollocaust as a solution and that you would consider the torture, rape, starvation and meaningless killing as a solution. Somethign tells me you might need to see someone about such vial hatred lad, I have not seen that even on this blog before. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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@ Shabeer - continued
written by fineliving56 , September 21, 2012
Muslim:C9B1N29 "Command For Fighting Against People So Long As They Do Not Profess That There Is No Ilah (God) But Allah And Muhammad Is His Messenger: When the Messenger breathed his last and Bakr was appointed Caliph, many Arabs chose to become apostates [rejected Islam]. Abu Bakr said: 'I will definitely fight against anyone who stops paying the Zakat tax, for it is an obligation. I will fight against them even to secure the cord used for hobbling the feet of a camel which they used to pay if they withhold it now.' Allah had justified fighting against those who refused to pay Zakat."

Muslim:C9B1N33 "The Prophet said: 'I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prostration prayer, and pay Zakat. If they do it, their blood and property are protected.'"

Muslim:C10B1N176 "Muhammad (may peace be upon him) sent us in a raiding party. We raided Huraqat in the morning. I caught hold of a man and he said: 'There is no god but Allah,' but I attacked him with a spear anyway. It once occurred to me that I should ask the Apostle about this. The Messenger said: 'Did he profess "There is no god but Allah," and even then you killed him?' I said: 'He made a profession out of the fear of the weapon I was threatening him with.' The Prophet said: 'Did you tear out his heart in order to find out whether it had professed truly or not?'"

Muslim:C20B1N4597 "The Prophet said at the conquest of Mecca: 'There is no migration now, but only Jihad, fighting for the Cause of Islam. When you are asked to set out on a Jihad expedition, you should readily do so.'"

Muslim:C28B20N4628 "Allah has undertaken to provide for one who leaves his home to fight for His Cause and to affirm the truth of His word; Allah will either admit him to Paradise or will bring him back home with his reward and booty."

Muslim:C28B20N4629 "The Messenger said: 'One who is wounded in the Way of Allah - and Allah knows best who is wounded in His Way - will appear on the Day of Judgment with his wound still bleeding. The color (of its discharge) will be blood, (but) its smell will be musk.'"

Muslim:C34B20N4652-3 "The Merit Of Jihad And Of Keeping Vigilance Over The Enemy: A man came to the Holy Prophet and said: 'Who is the best of men?' He replied: 'A man who fights staking his life and spending his wealth in Allah's Cause.'"

Muslim:C42B20N4684 "A desert Arab came to the Prophet and said: 'Messenger, one man fights for the spoils of war; another fights that he may be remembered, and one fights that he may see his (high) position (achieved as a result of his valor in fighting). Which of these is fighting in the Cause of Allah?' The Messenger of Allah said: 'Who fights so that the word of Allah is exalted is fighting in the Way of Allah.'"

[to be continued]
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Why are Muslims ashamed of Mohamed?
written by Guy Macher , September 21, 2012
The movie and the cartoons in Charlie Hebdo merely tell the truth of Mohamed as written in the Koran and the hadiths. Why are Muslims ashamed of hiim? Christians are not ashamed when movies tell the truth about Jesus as written in the Holy Bible.
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To Reed Wilson
written by Archpagan , September 21, 2012
Thank you for correcting me that it's 'coccyx' not 'coxics'. I learnt it only in my school days. But, what did you mean to say by ' nor the things you mention are vestiges.' Do you really utilize those organs?

Those verses were compiled from existing and available scriptures e. g. Torah, Talmud, Apocrypha etc. in order to legitimize Koran as a holy book.
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...
written by Reed Wilson. , September 21, 2012
Archpagan. You write "Those verses were compiled from existing and available scriptures"

Does it mean they vestigeal?

I quoted following which are still valid

حَسْرَةً عَلَى الْعِبَادِ ۚ مَا يَأْتِيهِمْ مِنْ رَسُولٍ إِلَّا كَانُوا بِهِ يَسْتَهْزِئُونَ

Woe to الْعِبَادِ people! Whenever a Messenger came to them, they mocked him. 36:30

فَإِنْ كَذَّبُوكَ فَقَدْ كُذِّبَ رُسُلٌ مِنْ قَبْلِكَ جَاءُوا بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ وَالزُّبُرِ وَالْكِتَابِ الْمُنِيرِ

"But if they reject you, so indeed were rejected before you apostles who came with clear arguments and scriptures and the illumining book."- Qur'an 3:184

كَذَّبَتْ قَبْلَهُمْ قَوْمُ نُوحٍ وَالْأَحْزَابُ مِنْ بَعْدِهِمْ ۖ وَهَمَّتْ كُلُّ أُمَّةٍ بِرَسُولِهِمْ لِيَأْخُذُوهُ ۖ وَجَادَلُوا بِالْبَاطِلِ لِيُدْحِضُوا بِهِ الْحَقَّ فَأَخَذْتُهُمْ ۖ فَكَيْفَ كَانَ عِقَابِ

"But before them, who denied the Signs,- the People of Noah, and the Confederates after them; and every People plotted against their prophet, to seize him, and disputed by means of vanities, therewith to condemn the Truth; but it was I that seized them! and how was the requital!" Qur'an 40:5

"And those who restrain their anger and pardon people. And Allah loves the doers of good to others" 3:133.

"Those who spend in prosperity and in adversity, who repress anger, and who pardon men; verily, Allâh loves (Al-Muhsinûn) the good doers". 3:134

Dont you think that above is a lesson and guidance for those who are mad about the film?

Pointing mistake was just a joke. Good you remember your school lessons.

"But, what did you mean to say by ' nor the things you mention are vestiges.' Do you really utilize those organs?

There may be a use of all those tissues which is not explored so far. We dont know how many muscles we are using in smiling. Vermiform appendix is no more considered as vestige. Male nipples have similar function as clitoris.
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...
written by Reed Wilson. , September 21, 2012
Archpagan. Yes from Torah and other scriptures. But where are they now?

Quite many (bad) things are also added in Torah as duh once pointed out. I quote:

written by duh_swami , February 04, 2012

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)


The real Torah and other scriptures, unadulterated, are only found in Quran. It is only Quran that proves existence of Jesus Christ. To Allah I am grateful for this favor.
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Mohammed Movie
written by Freeandproud , September 21, 2012
Well, if it isn't Shabby Shabeer.... what happened, did they finally kick you off Ali Sina's blog?

Radhasyam Brahmachari - I don't agree with the premise of your article. The Muslim menace will only be neutralised if the West stops appeasing the Muslim bully. When the leader of the free world, aka Obama, and his trusty side-kick Hillary Clinton, spend thousands of American taxpayers' dollars for a series of grovelling films to be aired on Pakistan TV, disassociating themselves (and, get this - the American people) from the "insult" to Islam, and this after
their diplomat in Banghazi was raped and killed - I don't hold much hope out that the scourge of Islam will be eradicated any time soon.
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To Reed Wilson
written by Freeandproud , September 21, 2012
Reed Wilson - what a joke you are. The only thing that awaits you and your friend Shabeer is oblivion - no paradise - no virgins - and absolutely no respect
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To Reed Wilson
written by Freeandproud , September 21, 2012
Reed Wilson - what a joke you are. The only thing that awaits you and your friend Shabeer is oblivion - no paradise - no virgins - and absolutely no respect
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Freeandproud
written by abc , September 21, 2012
The joke is on you jack!
I would be more concerned about what awaits you!!
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@ Everyone
written by This is Rami Rustom , September 21, 2012
Nothing awaits you after death.
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Reed is a mental retard
written by Pugo , September 21, 2012
Guys Reed wilson is a retard Funny he knows the murderous cult of Islam he knows why 6 million muslims leave islam everyyea year still does tauqia. And Tauqia on what convinces people on what Quran hahahaha the biggest terror manual. No amount of reasoning would work with him. Why wilson why. Need logic why 6 million leave islam wait wait wait 6 million leave quran leave quran the terror manual pls answer logically. Guys trouble him more to answer logically. No amount of his stupid tauqia should work Why wilson why 6 million leave quran i repeat leave quran. Why do they start using quran as shit cleaner why why why whwy whyw why --- answer answer answer
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Reed Wilson … have you read my posts to Shapeer ?
written by fineliving56 , September 21, 2012
You Reed, keep posting, in repeating manner, all the good parts of Quran which only * 25 * parts if you omit all the endless repetition [ BTW no one denies their existing in Quran so I do not know why you keep repeating them ].

The rest of Quran is nothing but orders of violence attacks against non believers, women and ex muslims [ murtadeen ] all that, added, the half backed and stolen stories from the Bible and the Torah.

Reed I noticed, you ignored all the hundreds of documented violence parts of Quran,hadeeth,Sirah, that I posted above and there is more coming … it seems endless doesn't it ?

Reed if we are going to go by numbers to evaluate whether Islam is violent or not, Quran and Islam in all, will have to be called violent religion.

60% violence parts in contrast to 25 peaceful and good parts in Quran … do you see?

numbers do not lie

BTW … I will post the short list of the good parts of Quran today … so you do not have to repeat them any more .. we get it
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Malem, Malem, Malem...
written by Amboyduke , September 21, 2012
Good to see you showing your true colors, your statement "You people...." reallys says it all.
-I didn't say "you people"...I said "you muslims".

You see it doesnt really have to do with religion, your just a racist bigot, which is sad.
-I am no more of a bigot than if I loathed the Nazis in the second world war...for they did the same things that your "bros" WANT to do over there in the middle east...as well as those in the western countries.

I would have hoped you would have been brought up better and learned to let others live their lives and not judge people by their color, race or religion.
-Get a grip, old boy...I am judging "you people" by your actions...whether you were green, purple, had 2 heads, black, white or neopolitan...it is the ACTIONS of you and your's that we ALL judge on this site, and I think you are just bright enough to know that to be fact...

Maybe its tough for you to do so, but I would say you need to look at yourself before judging others lad.
-I just looked at myself...and took a brief moment to self analyse. I think I'm ok.

Its also pretty scary that you throw out a hollocaust as a solution and that you would consider the torture, rape, starvation and meaningless killing as a solution. Somethign tells me you might need to see someone about such vial hatred lad, I have not seen that even on this blog before. You should be ashamed of yourself.
-I simply said that if world wide Jewry was doing in the 1930's what you and you "bros" are doing all over the world today, the entire world would have certainly understyood the Final Solution...

Malem, I ask you this; for the thousandth time...and you'll no doubt not respond.
-If these idiots that are rioting over whatever their reason...and they DON'T represent the "true islam"...then where and the hell are all the nice, wonderful, loving, peaceful muslims like yourself?
Why aren't there THOUSANDS of "you people" out there counter-protesting all the vile (sp) hate and loathing exhibited by your "bros"?
I'll tell you why...
Either you're chicken shit, and I can understand that...
OR, (and THIS is what I think)...you're accomplices and quitly support those lunatics.
I have yet to see/hear any muslim anywhere condemn the rioting and I never will.
I can only hope islam will self destruct....because the alternative won't be pretty.
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...
written by Reed Wilson. , September 21, 2012
Fineliving you ask "Reed Wilson … have you read my posts to Shapeer?

I am sorry I have not. The posts addressed to Reed are quite many. The سَّائِلِينَ are so impatient in my case. Yibel has not answered my so many. So also Clement who dips. There are many. I dont coerce them to answer.

I cannot read long posts. I will do read them.

You write "You Reed, keep posting, in repeating manner, all the good parts of Quran "

You liked them? It is not repeating in the real sense. It is always answering a question. These days I quoted verses which tell about ridiculing apostles and verses suggesting the calm reaction, forgiving and patience.

0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , September 21, 2012
fineliving. These days some 'scholarly' Christians have flocked this site. They are different from ex Muslim apostates. They revile Islam to vend Christianity.

They are to be handled with different tools.
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@Radheshayam
written by kundan , September 21, 2012
Radhe Shayam ji, u are right, but i have one doubt...as you can see, the politically correct government just bans the website and youtube etc will take the movie of the screen..there has to be a particular way for ppl to see it so much that they could not hide away from truth any more..movies are just banned from the muslim countries and the followers of Islam will see Youtube banning the movie on their government's protest as another feather in the cap of the empire of Islam.. so it may backfire as well..if you differ, please let me know how..just a curious question
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@ Reed Wilson - Good parts of Quran (part 1)
written by fineliving56 , September 21, 2012
Begin not hostilities.--2:190

Don't confuse truth with falsehood or knowingly conceal the truth. 2:42

Pay the poor-due. 2:43, 110, 277
Be good to parents, relatives, orphans, and the needy. Speak kindly and pay the poor-due. 2:83
If you believe it, prove it. (A good rule, but does it apply to Muslims, too?) 2:111
The Jews say the Christians are wrong, and vice versa. Yet they both believe in the Scriptures. 2:113
Give of your wealth to family, relatives, and the needy. Set slaves free. 2:177
Do not fight wars of aggression. (Does this apply only during Ramadan?) 2:190
"Do good." 2:195
Spend your money for good: to help your parents, your family, orphans, wayfarers, and the needy. 2:215
Help orphans. 2:220
"There is no compulsion in religion." (But see the next verse which says that disbelievers will burn forever in Hell.) 2:256
Don't argue about things that you know nothing about. 3:66
Do not be guilty of usury, doubling and quadrpling the sum lent. 3:130
I suffer not the work of any worker, male or female, to be lost. Ye proceed one from another. 3:195
Help orphans and don't steal from them. 4:2, 4:10
Men and women proceed from one another. 4:25
"Kill not one another." 4:29
Be kind to parents, relatives, orphans, the needy, neighbors, and travelers. 4:36
Whoever participates in a good cause, will be rewarded. Whoever participates in an evil cause, will bear the consequences thereof. (It's not true, but it's a nice thought.) 4:85
If someone says Hi to you say Hi (or Howdy) back to them. 4:86
It is good to help the poor and make peace. 4:114
Value justice, for both poor and rich, even when it adversely affects you or your family's interests. 4:135
Don't lend money at unfairly high rates of interest. 4:161
"O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion."
Other translations render this "O people of the Book, do not be fanatical in your faith." (Amen to that!) 4:171
Don't hate other people. Treat everyone fairly. 5:8
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Discussions about the Movie
written by Gnostic , September 21, 2012
The discussions are ridiculous. The poor muslims feel insulted by arrogant westerners and now they all want the distribution of the movies and the cartoons to be stopped.

What are we talking about? But what about stopping the distribution of islamic ideas such as the instigation of wife beating, gender apartheid. religious apartheid, crimes against religious minorities?

There are books not as bad as the quran which are already forbidden in many countries. A wrong word and people can be persecuted for everything while muslim preachers call for the killing of apostates and infidels without any punishment at all.

I would strongly support the claim that any islamic preacher who calls for killings should be brought to court and punished according to international law for hate crimes.
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@ Reed Wilson - Good parts of Quran (part 2)
written by fineliving56 , September 22, 2012
Whoever kills a human being, it is as if he had killed all mankind. Whoever saves the life of one, it is as if he had saved the life of all.
(But see the next verse which says that the enemies of Allah and Muhammad will be killed, crucified, have their hands and feet cut off, or expelled. And after they die they will face "an awful doom.") 5:32
Pay the poor-due. 5:55
Feed and clothe the needy. Set a slave free. 5:89
Do good to parents, don't kill your children or other living things unnecessarily. 6:151
Don't steal from orphans. Don't cheat or lie. 6:152
Pay the poor-due. 7:156
Be kind and forgiving toward others. 7:199
And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it. 8:61
Pay the poor-due, but only if they are Muslims. [Never help a non-Muslim. (See 28:86)] 9:18
Alms are for the poor and needy, to free captives and debtors, and to help wayfarers. But not for non-Muslims. [Never help a non-Muslim. (See 28:86)] 9:60
Men and women are protecting friends of one another. They enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and pay the poor-due. 9:71
"We see thee [Noah] but a mortal like us, and we see not that any follow thee save the most abject among us, without reflection. We behold in you no merit above us - nay, we deem you liars." 11:27
"Do not evil in the earth."
Treat people fairly, respect their possessions, and avoid evil. 11:85
Be kind to your relatives. 16:90
Be kind to your parents. Treat them with respect in their old age. 17:23
Help your family, the needy, and wayfarer. Don't selfishly squander your wealth. 17:26
Don't kill your children to avoid falling into poverty. 17:31
Don't steal from orphans. 17:34
Don't follow what you don't know. 17:36
"Speak that which is kindlier." 17:53
"Increase me in knowledge." 20:114
Feed the poor and unfortunate. 22:28
Don't lie. 22:30
Be kind to others, forbid injustice, and pay the poor-due. 22:41
Pay the poor-due. 22:78
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Letter to the free world
written by Jimmy , September 22, 2012
Letter to the free world

I am an average hard working Canadian and this is a plea to all countries of freedom. With most faiths in the world comes the belief in freedom prosperity and love for one another. With the muslim faith seems to comes hatred and violence for anyone with a differing opinion.
I am not picking on the Muslims for any other reason than the fact that With the Muslim faith comes hatred and violence, you just have to turn on your TV or pick up a newspaper to see that. They hate the free world and chant death to the Americas and other free nations on our television screens yet we still give them billions of dollars each year in aid. That needs to stop now! Everyone living in a free country needs to write their government letters, take part in non violent protests in front of government buildings and do whatever it takes to stop this muslim movement. The self proclaimed muslim goal is to take over the entire world and eliminate anyone who is not on board with them. (Remind you of anyone) We must stand together and stop this in it's tracks. We have to rid the Muslim faith from our countries. Sure our countries believe in freedom of faith but not when that faith believes in harming everyone that doesn't follow it. I know the muslims living in our countries say that there are just a few bad ones, What the heck, just watch the news and you see millions of them wishing us dead. Anyone that wants to practice the Muslim faith should leave and live in one of the countries of Muslim faith. If it was so good there why did they come here bring all their hatred and violence with them? Oh ya they came to our countries for a better life, well that better life they seek had no muslim religion. But they want to change all that and turn our countries into what they ran away from. If they don't like what we are all about then they should return to their country of origin. It is really hard to understand that their belief in allah causes them to bring their children up to hate others who don't follow their beliefs, even teaching it in their schools. No other modern day religion that I am aware of has followers that hate and kill others in the name of their god. Our aid to these muslim countries should not be in the way of billions of dollars but in the way of computers so that the children can educate themselves and one day be able to make decisions based on their own understanding of the world instead of only having the one-sided knowledge of their parents. We have to stand up now! Our governments can't do this on their own without the pressure of the surrounding world, but if we the people from all the free countries can all come together and stand strong (these are our countries) we can make a better world for our children to grow up in.
Please email this to everyone you know
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Jimmy you are right!
written by Gnostic , September 22, 2012
I would also like to adress the following to fineliving who provide some "good quotes" from the quran.

Fineliving, there are even people who say that the Hitler regime was not all bad. They built the autobahn and people got jobs.

There are also people telling that communism was not all bad: They had full employment and food and housing was cheap and so on.

There are even people in Iraq telling that the Saddam regime was not all bad.

To conclude, there are ALWAYS some things that are not so bad and maybe some things that are even good. But in order to be not bad there are no bad things allowed.

A religion that instigates wife beating, that raises poll taxes for members of other religions and propagates severe punishments such as chopping off hands and beheadings, killing of apostates and so is only bad even if there might be some other things which are not so bad or even good.

Even a mafia boss might be friendly towards some people but this is not enough to be a good man.
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Prevert
written by Imam Douchebag , September 22, 2012
These, many times daily butt sniffers, are grown men acting like spoiled adolescents. Islam is an EVIL way of life filled with horrors reserved for few. Gods fist will finish them fittingly and tortuous.
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...
written by Reed Wilson. , September 22, 2012
Jimmy. You write "With the Muslim faith comes hatred and violence."

How? The WWII, mother of all wars, was not flicked by Islam or by Muslims. I give some from Quran below

"Begin not hostilities".--2:190

"Don't confuse truth with falsehood or knowingly conceal the truth". 2:42"

"Pay the poor-his due". 2:43, 110, 277

"Be good to parents, relatives, orphans, and the needy. Speak kindly and pay the poor-due.| 2:83

"If you believe it, prove it." 2:111

"The Jews say the Christians are wrong, and vice versa. Yet they both believe in the Scriptures." 2:113

"Give of your wealth to family, relatives, and the needy. Set slaves free." 2:177

Do not fight wars of aggression. 2:190

"Do good." 2:195

Spend your money for good: to help your parents, your family, orphans, wayfarers, and the needy. 2:215

Help orphans. 2:220

"There is no compulsion in religion." (But see the next verse which says that disbelievers will burn forever in Hell.) 2:256

Don't argue about things that you know nothing about. 3:66

Do not be guilty of usury, doubling and quadrpling the sum lent. 3:130

Help orphans and don't steal from them. 4:2, 4:10

"Kill not one another." 4:29

Jimmy, look for hatred and violence in yourself.
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Gnostic … Good versus bad in Islam
written by fineliving56 , September 22, 2012
Yes I agree with you perfectly …

As you might have read, I had posted a 4 part collection of the meanest and the most violent parts of Quran, hadeeth and Sirah al rasool Muhammad and I have not finished yet there is 2 more long parts ,yet . also , I have posted the so called good parts of Islam which they are no more then 25 Aya if you discount the many repetition …

You properly have guessed the reason I did that, It is, of course, to show the contrasted between the good and the bad in Quran … the sheer vastness of numbers of bad parts in sharp contrast to measly , tiny numbers of good parts .

When we want to judge a person of how good he or she is, we have to examine the amount of good thing he or she has done in comparison to his bad ones and if the bad ones brakes the scale in its heaviness , then we conclude he or she IS bad .

Islam is no different …. it is clear the bad parts had Broken the scale because the good parts are almost unnoticeable …

Even if you do not read all the bad parts I posted …by randomly picking few, you will see the sheer evilness and meanness of the words that have been used …

like …

crush the skulls of infidels and bones …

Wounds still bleeding in jahanam ….

.tear his heart out ….

we will keep fighting the unbelievers forever for Allah and killing them is nothing to us …

Does these words come from A God

No it does not …. the lousy 25 good parts of Quran does not erase or make up for the other 60% of the violent and evil ones .
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Reed … not so fast …
written by fineliving56 , September 22, 2012
I could see that you have used the same post I posted about the good parts of quran …but you have not noticed that there is a lot of repetition in it … and that does not count …

I have counted the good parts in Quran and they are only 25 Ayas in over a thousand Aya as I said before …

that is not good enough at all … besides nothing of what you posted is NEW … all has been brought by other religion who has been founded long before Islam was ever created .

BTW … read 2.258 and 3.66 … again you might not be so eager to show off Islam to Jimmy like you are doing .

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Fineliving: Such things can happen!
written by Gnostic , September 22, 2012
I thought you were defending islam, did you notice that? But in total I totally agree with you.

And we can go on with more examples. If you talk to rulers like Assad you might get the impression, that he has good manners and is so kind. But is he?

From the fruits you can assess the tree!

The balance sheet of islam is desastrous. War, violence and oppression, torture and killings. Underdevelopment, backwardness and superstition!

Islam is fighting against anything that means progress because it cannot stand it: Democracy, Free Speech, Equality, Freedom, Science, Education - all fields islam is so behind the rest of the world!

The fruits of islam are bad fruits! They are poisened!
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To Reed Wilson
written by Archpagan , September 22, 2012
All verses in Koran are independent and you have reproduced only the insipid ones, to be quoted when Muslims feel week vis-a-vis infidels. The followings are the most attractive to Muslims when they feel strong. And your good verses becomes meaningless in their company.

2:193-”Fight against them (unbelievers) until there is no dissension, and the religion is for Allah.” (Fight until no other religion exists but Islam throughout the world.)

3:151-”We will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve.”

4:89-”"Seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”

8:12, 14-”I shall cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. Strike them above the necks, smite their finger tips…. the punishment of the fire is for the unbelievers.”

8:39-”Fight them (unbelievers) until opposition is no more and the religion of Allah (all submit to Allah) reigns supreme.”

Islam means Submit! It is not a request. It is a war cry!!
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Reed
written by abc , September 22, 2012
Its amazing how infantile their arguments are.
They count "good" verse and "bad" verse.
Who are they to judge good or bad without context.
It's laughable.
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Reed
written by abc , September 22, 2012
I think I may go home and check how many times the big bad wolf is mentioned in the three little pigs. The wolf parts we shall label as BAD and the other parts GOOD.
Then we shall see if the children's book is good or bad !

The stupidity of these haters is amazing!
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...
written by Reed Wilson. , September 22, 2012
Archpagan. A verse is like a reference to locate the message. It may not give a message. For example

Mathew 26:1- 5 When Jesus had finished saying all these things, he said to his disciples, 2 “As you know, the Passover is two days away—and the Son of Man will be handed over to be crucified.” 3 Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, 4 and they schemed to arrest Jesus secretly and kill him. 5 “But not during the festival,” they said, “or there may be a riot among the people.”

Archpagan if I just give "Matthw 26:3 Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas" it will not make much sense. You need to read 1-5 to make out something.

Similarly in order to understand 2:193, you at least have to start from 2:190 which I read for you

"Fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors. (190)And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. (191) And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (192) Fight them until there is no fitnah and worship is for Allah. But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors." (193)

Please observe that:
1.Fighting is with aggressors.
2.It is not for material reason i.e. occupation, land grabbing etc.
3.The limits are prescribed. Don’t have to transgress.
4.There are some more beauties there.
The impugned verses which provoked you, are selected by fineliving who posted above and I used them as ready made.

For the rest of the ‘objectionable’ verses quoted by you, kindly try yourself to understand. You will.

Isolated verses are misunderstood most the time.

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re: abc
written by Gnostic , September 22, 2012
It is Reed who is quoting very selectively only those sentences that please him. You may be right that it is very simpl to talk about good and bad verses but it makes things easier.
If there is written that a man can beat his wife than I call it a bad verse because this is in fact a bad one.
If there is written that we should work for peace, freedom and other good values then I call it a good verse.

But what can we think about the quran that speaks about a most mercyful god who then does not hesitate to mislead his own creatures and who calls for terror against infidels?

A single drop of poison can poison a bottle of medicine but a drop of medicine can not clear a bottle of poison.

In the same way you cannot praise the quran by only quoting verses of truism. Even a criminal will sometimes say the truth.

Nice try, but your comment just did not hit the nail.
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It is Reed who is quoting very selectively only.
written by Reed Wilson. , September 22, 2012
abc Gnostic. It is not really that. I have tried to explain it in my post for Archpagan above.

The selection is needed to answer specific question. If you will ask about hajj, I will quote only pertinent portions.
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re: above
written by Gnostic , September 22, 2012
abc insulted me for my use of the words "bad verses" and "good verses".

I referred to your selective use of verses that are matching your argumentation that the quran is peaceful and tolerant. I do not deny that there are such verses in the quran but there are also many others which are full of hate.

It is the quran that promotes hate and violence against infidels and even against women.

It is the quran that claims to be so clear and easy to understand. With such a claim, the quran is not entitled to contain any contradiction or ambiguities. There should be no doubt about it.

But why are there so many violent islamists there? They should not exist if the clear quran were so peaceful. But they do. Everywhere. How come?

Who is stupid? And who is so full of hate against whom?
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Gnostic
written by abc , September 22, 2012
"A single drop of poison can poison a bottle of medicine but a drop of medicine can not clear a bottle of poison"

I hate to break it to you but most medicine has a toxic effect and that's why it works.
All chemo drugs are poison.
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@ Gnostic - Quran's claim of perfection and its contradictions/ambiguity
written by This is Rami Rustom , September 22, 2012
Excellent point Gnostic. The quality of perfection means void of contradictions and ambiguity. That means that anybody should be able to read it and understand it without any possibility of confusion.

Note that my articles contain very little ambiguity (its impossible to have zero ambiguity as this would be perfection).

Note that no human being has zero contradictions in his ideas (because its impossible to have zero contradictions as this would be perfection).

Humans are not perfect. This is what fallibility means. Allah claims that he and his Quran are infallible. So how is it that my article contains fewer contradictions that the Quran?

How is it that my articles are closer to perfect than the Quran is close to perfect?
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Gnostic
written by abc , September 22, 2012
"abc insulted me for my use of the words "bad verses" and "good verses".

That was no my intention and I apologise if you took it that way!!!
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To Reed Wilson
written by Archpagan , September 22, 2012
Fight 'with those who fight with you', means you are to fight those who resist your efforts to impose Allah as the only God. It is as clear as day from the context of the historical facts of the birth of Islam as a religion. If I launch armed attacks on others to impose my God as the only God, what shall you do?

"Fight them until there is no fitnah and worship is for Allah. But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors." (193) carries the same connotation as above. Those verses only indicate the brutal way of foisting Islam on unwilling people. Those unfortunate people are unable to revert to their ancestral God because of the fear of death prescribed for apostasy in Koran and Ahadis. Another reason people are not reverting is that their past spiritual traditions are completely obliterated by barbarity of the avid followers of Islam.

If Muhammad genuinely believed in Monotheism he should have called his God as Yahweh not Allah. Muhammad only wanted to impose the tribal deity of the Koraes tribe as the only valid God for humanity. This is imperialism in the garb religion. Abrahamic Monotheism is a political idea and spirituality is only subservient to such idea of perfect society. Do you feel Islam has created ideal society across nations?
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Rami
written by fineliving56 , September 22, 2012
'' So how is it that my article contains fewer contradictions that the Quran ? ''

Excellent Question …

The only answer that will make sense is that Quran was written by a 1400 century humans with 1400 century knowledge and bad ideas, They are flawed and has the moral scale of that time, like marrying little girls, owning slaves, beating wives and all the superstition non sense of that time .

Muhammad never had the sense or the smarts to foresee the changes that the world is going to go through, as time passes, so he wrote a book [Quran ] not for all ages .. of course, he would never been able to do that, even if he had tried, because it would have been impossible .

Muhammad did not have the smarts or the sense to not even find a different name for his God, other then, he gave to it which is of course, was the exact name of one the Gods of the pagans who he disdained and destroys

not just that, the name of his God is a female name of the pagans Gods '' Allat'' , all he did was change it to '' Allah '' a male name.

The name ''Abd Allah'' [ the slave of Allah] that was known by the Arabs at that time long before Muhammad was, a thought ….

all my life I have heard people say that Muhammad was a smart man … No I do not think so … he was an ignorant,backward stupid bully who was not smart enough to figure out a way to find another name for his God … if that was not a proof of Islam's fallacy, I do not know what is .

The reason for Muhammad's sucsuuss was the use of the SWARD …Quran, hadeeth and Sirat al rasool is a damming witness to that .
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Nazi criminal against humanity died in Egypt
written by Gnostic , September 23, 2012
Dr. Aribert Heim, accused for war crimes in german concentration camps, died in Egypt according to german officials.

He was one of the worlds most wanted war criminals. He converted to islam and was able to hide in Egypt for many decades.

Hitler is stll very popular in many muslim countries.
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...
written by Reed Wilson. , September 23, 2012
Archpagan. You write "Fight 'with those who fight with you', means you are to fight those who resist your efforts to impose Allah as the only God."

No Archpagan. It does not mean that. In the same chapter you will find

لَا إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ ۖ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ ۚ فَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِن بِاللَّـهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىٰ لَا انفِصَامَ لَهَا ۗ وَاللَّـهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ

"There shall be no compulsion in acceptance of the religion. The right course is made clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing". 2/256

I have given the text. You can differ with translator.
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...
written by Reed Wilson , September 23, 2012
Archpagan. The ready example is of Reed. He says that all hadis, sira etc is rubbish and only Quran was required in Islam.

Now millions of Maulanas, Sheikhul Hadis, Shaikhul Islams, Ayatullahs etc, a terminology non extant in Quran, are annoyed because Reed is indirectly saying that what they sell is rubbish. Resultantly they will gather to fight with Reed. Even if he is ghost of internet, he tells all that to his friends and close. Reed is not stopped to fight back in his defense.

We have another example of Jesus Christ. What did he do? He did not bring new religion. He faught against the hadis sira like tradition. Enemies flocked against him to kill him. He was offensive in delivering the message and defensive to save him.

Jesus was a chosen person. Reed is not.

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To Reed Wilson
written by Archpagan , September 23, 2012
You just stopped short of calling yourself a prophet/ apostle. I would like you to work on these two controversial verses:

"We do not abrogate any verse or cause it to be forgotten unless we substitute for it something better or similar; do you know that God has power over all things?" (2.100).

"When we substitute one verse for another - and God knows best what He reveals - they say 'you are but a forger"' (16.103)
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...
written by Reed Wilson , September 23, 2012
Archpagan. You know that I dont want to be Maulanas, Sheikhul Hadis, Shaikhul Islams, Ayatullahs etc. Nor 'Islamic Scholar'. All such things have no place in Islam. They are self created forced vacancies.

Islam has no prophets. Prophet is the one who does prophesies which none was allowed. To me apostle is better translation of Arabic Nabi. No more apostles. Allah says I will not send any more.

I can be a messenger under certain definition. Apostle is status and messenger is the function of nabi who is chosen person.

I have written enough on 'abrogated' misunderstanding created in 10th century. Ask Sh. Google by searching in 'Islam-watch.org/abrogation/Reed Wilson".

Are you not the one who awarded Amamat to Reed Wilson?

0
...
written by Reed Wilson , September 23, 2012
Archpagan. You write "Fight 'with those who fight with you', means you are to fight those who resist your efforts to impose Allah as the only God."

Seems you are somewhat convinced with my explanation by saying you are 'short of apostle'.
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Reed Wilson
written by fineliving56 , September 23, 2012
It seems you did not translate the word '' Taghot'' in Aya 2/256 in your post to Archbagan …I wandered why ? … is it because you did not find the translation anywhere .. no surprise … you will not find it in todays books .

The word ''Taghot'' is an ancient Arabic word for the word "pagans Gods''

in another words '' evil '' '' darkness '' medieval darkness '' ,

it is not used any more .. it comes from the time of pagans and their prayer to many Gods. When 2/256 said : faman Yakfuru be ltaghoti '' …it means '' who ever disbelieve [ yekfuru ] in many Gods ''

notice the words right after it … it says '' and then believe in Allah ''
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...
written by Reed Wilson , September 24, 2012
fineliving. It is not my translation. I submitted translation of Sahih International as such.

Ahmad ali translated as forces of evil
ARK Barelvi as devil
Arberry as idols
Asad as idols
Daryabadi as devil
HnA as Taghut
Maududi as Taghut
Pickthal as false deities
Qaribullah as idol

And so on fineliving. I know it is from tagha which means rebellion or disobedient, or contumacious or insolent. It is disobedience or revolt personified.

You write "The word ''Taghot'' is an ancient Arabic word for the word "pagans Gods''. This absolutely wrong in the sense that you did not give dictionary meaning. Ancient or modern is no explanation. Sorry!!

In Quran 20/24 Allah says

اذْهَبْ إِلَىٰ فِرْعَوْنَ إِنَّهُ طَغَىٰ

Go to the Pharaoh as he has become exceedingly rebellious."

Ancient pagan if they called God as taghut, it must have some meanings or they just used a meaningless sound? It is used even now. I use it.

I appreciate your verve.
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Human-created Gods.
written by The Strategist , September 24, 2012
Dr Albert Einstein had found so many scientific errors in the holy books that he came to the conclusion that all these human-created gods were so confused and ill-informed.
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , September 25, 2012
Albert Einsteinian was a great scientist. We dont have to compare. Else, we know that we know today quite many things in science which he didnt know.

He believed an atom to smallest and indivisible. What happened to atom? Allah tells about smaller than atom in Quran.
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There is no Arabic Nabi
written by Yibel , September 25, 2012
The word "nabi" is a Hebrew word meaning prophet, which comes from the Hebrew word naba - to prophesy or predict.

Arabic had no such word because no such persons ever existed among the Arabs. Arabs had witches, and conjurers, and jinn, and ghouls - but NO nabi (prophets).

Muhammad was certainly no nabi/prophet, nor was he an apostle, since an apostle is someone who is a disciple of someone else - unless he was an apostle of Lucifer or the Egyptian god of the dead, Anubis.

Actually, Muhammad was a father, founder, of a new religion - and he said so himself when he declared his wives to be the mothers of the ummah (his followers). Q. 33-6
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Reed is wrong about Einstein!
written by Gnostic , September 25, 2012
Reed, please give up making claims about science in quran and do not be so impudent to judge over Einstein!

You are wrong about Einstein! He, as well as many other people, already knew that there are electrons, protons and neutrons which are all smaller than an atom because an atom consists of these particles!

In the quran no atom is mentioned nor any particles even smaller than that. Where do you get this information from? It takes more to be a scientist and the authors of the quran fail to deliver any useful knowledge here.

It was not the islamic world that invented the atomic bomb or nuclear energy.

There were ancient greek and indian philosophers and even buddhists who developed the idea of very small particles but nobody would say that they discovered anything.

The I Ging, the chinese oracle book consists of elements strikingly similar to that of a DNA. But nobody can claim that there is any discovery.

The chinese could argue that Ying and Yang are similar to positive and negative loads but nobody really makes this claim because this has no merit!

Or do you really think the Iranians read the quran in order to build their bomb? Would this be helpful? If not than all the claims make absolutely no sense!

Knowledge can only be considered knowledge if it can be used.
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...
written by Reed Wilson , September 25, 2012
Reed is wrong about Einstein! Gnostic. Yes Gnostic Reed is wrong about Einstein! I dont know under what impression I put it that way. I will however insist that the Prof did not know so many things of his own discipline which we know today.

Regarding atom we know that till John Dalton Man knew that atom was indivisible. Quran gives concept of so many things including smaller than atom and more than one worlds and movement of planets etc. To make the discoveries and exploration is the job of human folk.

It is such a vast subject that I dont want to enter in such a discourse except when there is occasion for it.

Haroon Yahya is doing this kind of work. For me it is not very right thing to do to argue that God is wise. He is not God if he is otherwise.
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Now I understand where Reed gets his wisdom from!
written by Gnostic , September 25, 2012
Reed refers to Haroon Yahya,who much like a turkish Zakir Naik, is well known for his pseudo-scientific works.

According to Wikipedia he studied architecture but quit the university without a degree.
His Atlas of Creation is, according to recommended scientists, nothing but nonsense and full of errors.

Quote from Wikipedia:
"None of the arguments in this work are based on any scientific evidence, and the book appears more like a primitive theological treatise than the scientific refutation of the theory of evolution."[4

Yahya is also known for spreading conspiracy theories and his denial of the Holocaust.

He faces legal issues for harassing scientists who teached evolution and other things.

He sent his Atlas of Creation to many Institutes and Libraries which never asked for it.

Perhaps he is backed by rich muslim movements but
even some islamist circles do not like him for his extravagant ideas.

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MUHAMMED - THE HARD TRUTH
written by The Infidel Alliance , September 25, 2012
MUHAMMED - THE HARD TRUTH

To understand Islamic terror you must first understand the Koran as Muslims do, as the direct, immutable, unalterable word of Allah, and most importantly understand the primacy of Muhammed in Islamic consciousness.

The Koran 68:4 upholds Muhammed as ‘uswa hasana’, "an exalted standard of character”, and Islamic tradition upholds Muhammed as ‘al-insan al-kamil’ or ‘the perfect man’ to be emulated by all Muslims. This is the conviction of every Muslim, from suicide bomber and airline jihadist, to the friendly Muslim down the street, because ALL Muslims profess the shahada: "There is no god but Allah and Muhammed is his messenger."

The great lie that Muhammed was some kind of holy man, a moral role model with a direct connection to God, is the biggest fraud ever perpetrated upon humanity. It is a massive lie that is propagated by Islam’s power to repress inquiry, dissent and the truth by theologically sanctioned fear, intimidation and violence.

The hard truth about Muhammed, as recorded for posterity in Islamic scripture, is that far from being a virtuous 'holy prophet', Muhammed was actually a classic sadistic sociopath.

Factually, Muhammed was a mass murderer, a serial rapist, a human slaver and slave trafficker, a child rapist, a contemptuous misogynist, a sex slaver and sex trafficker, a looting stealing thief, a perfidious liar, a sadistic torturer, an obsessive decapitator, an inhuman mutilator, a savage limb amputator, an intolerant bigot, a genocidist and a self proclaimed terrorist.

Muhammed was, by any objective standard, one of the most vile and repugnant men in the pantheon of human history, grand mal narcissist consumed by unquenchable sexual lust, asymptotic material greed, and addicted to primal violent savagery.

Far from being a holy man, Muhammed was nothing more than a 7th century Arabian Hitler, a Meccan Charles Manson, only creepier and more evil than either.

Like Hitler and Manson, Muhammed should have been incarcerated, not venerated. Muhammed should be reviled, not revered. Yet this is the man who is the moral standard bearer for 1 billion+ Muslims. Every pathology that afflicts Islam comes directly from this sick man, Muhammed, and the entire world suffers because of him.

Cont'd...
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Cont'd...
written by The Infidel Alliance , September 25, 2012
Cont'd....

Muslims know the truth about Muhammed, and they know that his barbaric immorality and savage inhumanity cannot be reconciled with modern humanity and modern human values. Thus, they dissemble and lie to perpetuate this grand myth, the greatest fraud ever perpetrated upon humanity.

When confronted with the truth about their barbarian prince, Muslims have only two options:
1) to accept the truth which destroys the very foundation of their cult of Islam, or
2) they must defend the indefensible in the only way they can - though willful denial followed by fear, threats, intimidation, violence, riots, destruction and murder.

The hatred, threats, violence, destruction and murder of the recent Muhammed movie protests, and the hatred espoused by this modern day Islamic cleric, Shaykh Abu-Ishaq al-Huwayni, are just the latest proof positive of this unassailable theorem. http://www.translatingjihad.co...-even.html

Please help spread the truth about Muhammed.

~ The Infidel Alliance
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MUHAMMED - THE HARD TRUTH
written by The Infidel Alliance , September 26, 2012
To understand Islamic terror you must first understand the Koran as Muslim do, as the direct, immutable, unalterable word of Allah, most importantly understand the primacy of Muhammed in Islamic consciousness.

The Koran 68:4 upholds Muhammed as ‘uswa hasana’ (“an exalted standard of character”), and Islamic tradition upholds Muhammed as ‘al-insan al-kamil’ or ‘the perfect man’ to be emulated by all Muslims. This is the conviction of every Muslim, from suicide bomber and airline jihadist, to the friendly Muslim down the street, because ALL Muslims profess the shahada: "There is no god but Allah and Muhammed is his messenger."

The great lie that Muhammed was some kind of holy man, a moral role model with a direct connection to God, is the biggest fraud ever perpetrated upon humanity. It is a massive lie that is propagated by Islam’s power to repress inquiry, silence dissent and censor the truth, by theologically sanctioned fear, intimidation and violence.

The hard truth about Muhammed, as recorded for posterity in Islamic scripture, is that far from being a virtuous 'holy prophet', Muhammed was actually a classic sadistic sociopath.

Factually, Muhammed was a mass murderer, a serial rapist, a human slaver and slave trafficker, a child rapist, a contemptuous misogynist, a sex slaver and sex trafficker, a looting stealing thief, a perfidious liar, a sadistic torturer, an obsessive decapitator, an inhuman mutilator, a savage limb amputator, an intolerant bigot, a genocidist and a self proclaimed terrorist.

Muhammed was, by any objective standard, one of the most vile and repugnant men in the pantheon of human history, a grand mal narcissist consumed by unquenchable sexual lust, asymptotic material greed, and obsessed with primal violent bloodlust.

Far from being a virtuous holy man, Muhammed was nothing more than a 7th century Arabian Hitler, only worse, a Meccan Charles Manson, only creepier and more evil than either.

Like Hitler and Manson, Muhammed should have been incarcerated, not venerated. Muhammed should be reviled, not revered. Yet this is the man who is the moral standard bearer for 1 billion+ Muslims. Every pathology that afflicts Islam comes directly from this sick man, Muhammed, and the entire world suffers because of him.

Cont'd...
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MUHAMMED AND LAS VEGAS ODDS
written by The Infidel Alliance , September 26, 2012
This savage barbarian Muhammed inspired an army of savage barbarians who over 1,400 years, following his examples and mandates, slaughtered, raped, attacked, invaded, oppressed, subjugated and terrorized their way across North Africa, into Spain and France, throughout the Middle East, into Persia and India, and up into Eastern Europe.

Today, we again face the murdering minions of Muhammed, and if we take a close look at these modern day Islamic terrorists and raging, burning, destroying, murdering mobs, a curious, indeed amazing pattern emerges:

1) MOHAMMED Atta, 9/11 airline Jihadist
2) Abdulhakim Mujahid MUHAMMED, Little Rock recruiting center assasin
3) MOHAMMED Reza Taheri-azar, UNC SUV jihadist
4) MOHAMMED Ajmal Amir Kasab, Mumbai jihadist
5) Husayn MUHAMMED al-Umari, Pan Am Flight 830 bomber
6) Fahd MOHAMMED Ahmed al-Quso, USS Cole bomber
7) Khalid Sheikh MOHAMMED, beheader of Daniel Pearl
8) MOHAMMED Sidique Khan, London Tube suicide jihadist
9) Ramzi MOHAMMED, convicted London Tube jihadist
10) Whabi MOHAMMED, London Tube ‘5th’ bomber
11) Fazul Abdullah MOHAMMED, Tanzanian embassy bomber
12) MAHMOUD Ahmadinejad, despotic Shia leader of Islamic Republic of Iran
13) MOHAMMED Bouyeri, savage Islamist killer of Theo Van Gogh
14) MOHAMMED Ali Hamadei, airline hijacker
15) MOHAMMED Safady, Munich Olympics terrorist
16) AHMAD Marrouf al-Assadi, Achille Lauro hijacker
17) MEHMET Ali Ağca, Islamist who attempted to assasinate Pope John Paul

Cont'd...
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MUHAMMED AND LAS VEGAS ODDS - Cont'd...
written by The Infidel Alliance , September 26, 2012
Cont'd...

18) MOHAMMED Atif Siddique, Scottish terrorist conspiritor
19) Kafeel AHMED, Glasgow Airport bomber
20) Abdulla AHMED, ‘Liquid’ bomber
21) John Allen MUHAMMED, mass murdering D.C. sniper
23) MOHAMMED Haydar Zammar, al-Qaeda recruiter who assembled the Hamburg cell
24) Jaish-e-MOHAMMED, Pakistani jihadist terror organization
25) Mullah MOHAMMED Omar, Taliban terrorist leader
26) Maulana Sufi MOHAMMED, Pakistani jihadist who killed 11 police officers
27) MOHAMMED Meraj Khan, arrested for working under a false name at Koodankulam Nuclear Power Project
28) Arif MOHAMED Saeed MOHAMED Al-Ali, arrested for human trafficking offenses
29) MOHAMED Ali MOHAMED, arrested in Tanzania for the July 2010 bombings that killed 76 people
30) MOHAMMED Wali Zazi, on trial in Brooklyn federal court for obstruction of justice and lying to investigators to cover up his son's foiled New York Jihad attack.
31) MOHAMMED Mamdouh and AHMED Serhani, arrested in terrorist plot against NYC Synagogue
32) Omer Abdi MOHAMED, admitted one count of conspiracy to murder, kidnap and maim others in a foreign country.

And, of consequence, Osama bin Laden's full name is Osama bin MOHAMMED bin Awad bin Laden.

Mohammed...Muhammed...Mahmoud...Mehmet...Ahmed...and on and on and on....all namesakes of Islam's 'holy prophet', all committed to violence and intolerance in the tradition of Muhammed and in the name of Islam.

This has to be either:

1) the greatest Las Vegas odds defying 'Ripley's Believe It Or Not' coincidence in the history of oddsmaking, or

2) undeniable proof that the founder and 'holy prophet' of Islam, Muhammed, was actually an evil, murdering, barbarian Islamic terrorist role model for other evil, murdering, barbarian Islamic terrorists.

Is there a similar list of terrorists named Jesus or Buddha? Think about that.

~ The Infidel Alliance
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , September 26, 2012
The Infidel Alliance. You write "To understand Islamic terror you must first understand the Koran as Muslim do, as the direct, immutable, unalterable word of Allah, most importantly understand the primacy of Muhammed in Islamic consciousness."

It is intelligent suggestion.

You write "The Koran 68:4 upholds Muhammed as ‘uswa hasana’ (“an exalted standard of character”), and Islamic tradition upholds Muhammed as ‘al-insan al-kamil’ or the perfect man’ to be emulated by all Muslims."

Let us see Quran 68:4 first. It reads:

وَإِنَّكَ لَعَلَىٰ خُلُقٍ عَظِيمٍ

No Muhammad and ‘uswa hasana’ is there. It applies even to Reed. Quran rather tells that even apostles dont find the way without guidance and it is Allah who guides to the truth and and he only is worthy of following. et me tell you where in Quran.

قُلْ هَلْ مِن شُرَكَائِكُم مَّن يَهْدِي إِلَى الْحَقِّ ۚ قُلِ اللَّـهُ يَهْدِي لِلْحَقِّ ۗ أَفَمَن يَهْدِي إِلَى الْحَقِّ أَحَقُّ أَن يُتَّبَعَ أَمَّن لَّا يَهِدِّي إِلَّا أَن يُهْدَىٰ ۖ فَمَا لَكُمْ كَيْفَ تَحْكُمُونَ

Say: Is there any of your associates who guides to the truth? Say: Allah guides to the truth. Is He then Who guides to the truth more worthy to be followed, or he who himself does not go aright unless he is guided? What then is the matter with you; how do you judge? Quran10:35

So my dear friend, if one is folowing your 'Insan i Kamil' he doing nothing but SHIRK which Allah will never forgive. You get the point?




This is the conviction of every Muslim, from suicide bomber and airline jihadist, to the friendly Muslim down the street, because ALL Muslims profess the shahada: "There is no god but Allah and Muhammed is his messenger."
0
Reed
written by abc , September 26, 2012
Dont bother wasting your time on that fool.
IA trawls the Internet leaving his copy and paste messages.
Engage him and watch him disappear!!!
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , September 26, 2012
abc. Thank you. I am not concentrating on that fool. I am rather concentrating on that fool.
0
The Truth Hurts...
written by The Infidel Alliance , September 26, 2012
Dear 'Reed Wilson' and 'abc',

I can understand that revealing the truth about your evil prince must hurt, as it destroys the whole myth of Muhammed as some kind of 'holy prophet'. Thus, I can understand that you will dissemble, distract, misdirect and lie to defend this grand lie.

But, evil is still evil and a lie is just a lie.

Koran 68:4 - وَإِنَّكَ لَعَلى خُلُقٍ عَظِيمٍ

Transliteration: Wainnaka laAAala khuluqin AAatheemin

Abdullah Yusuf Ali: And thou (standest) on an exalted standard of character.

Mufti Taqi Usmani: And you are surely on an excellent standard of character.

Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall: And lo! thou art of a tremendous nature.

Sahih International: And indeed, you are of a great moral character.

French: Et tu es certes, d'une moralité imminente.

Japanese: 本当にあなたは,崇高な徳性を備えてい
0
THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH
written by The Infidel Alliance , September 26, 2012
The truth is the truth, and the truth about Muhammed, the founder and 'holy prophet' of Islam, was a sadistic sociopath.

As recorded by Musilms (not me) in the Islamic 'holy' texts, the Koran, Ahadith and Sirat Rasul Allah, Muhammed was:

- a serial rapist, sex slaver and sex trafficker:
Koran (33:50) - "O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee"

Tabari IX:137 - "Allah granted Rayhana of the Qurayza to Muhammad as booty."

Tabari VIII:117 - "Dihyah had asked the Messenger for Safiyah when the Prophet chose her for himself... the Apostle traded for Safiyah by giving Dihyah her two cousins. The women of Khaybar were distributed among the Muslims."

- a human slaver and slave trafficker:
Bukhari 3, Book 34, # 351:
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah: A man decided that a slave of his would be manumitted after his death and later on he was in need of money, so the Prophet took the slave and said, "Who will buy this slave from me?" Nu'aim bin 'Abdullah bought him for such and such price and the Prophet gave him the slave.

- a looting stealing thief (why didn't he chop off his own hand?):
Koran (8:69) - "But now enjoy what ye took in war, lawful and good"

- a child rapist:
Muslim Book 008 # 3310: Aisha reported: "Allah's Apostle married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old."

- a mass murderer and decapitator:
Bahu Qurayza, 800 men and boys slaughtered by decapitation

Cont'd...
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The Truth is the Truth - Cont'd...
written by The Infidel Alliance , September 26, 2012
Cont'd...

- a brutal torturer:
Muslim (16:4131) - They were caught and brought to him (the Holy Prophet). He commanded about them, and (thus) their hands and feet were cut off and their eyes were gouged and then they were thrown in the sun, until they died.

- a sadistic hand, foot & tongue amputator:
Bukhari (81:792) - Narrated Aisha: "The Prophet cut off the hand of a lady, and that lady used to come to me, and I used to convey her message to the Prophet and she repented, and her repentance was sincere."

- an abusive misogynist:
Muslim (4:1039) - "A'isha said to Muhammad 'You have made us equal to the dogs and the asses'"

- an intolerant supremecist bigot:
Koran 8:55 - Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe.

Koran (3:85) - "And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him"

- a sexual glutton and deviant:
Koran (33:50) - "O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers "

Bukhari (5:268) - "The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number."

(But of course this pig Muhammed only allowed regular Muslims 4 wives: Koran (4:3) - "Marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice then one (only) or (the slaves) that your right hands possess.")

- a self proclaimed terrorist:
Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said "I have been made victorious with terror"

How are you going to spin this 'Reed Wilson'?

~ The Infidel Alliance
0
Ready to engage...
written by The Infidel Alliance , September 26, 2012
Dear 'Reed Wilson' and 'abc',

I'm ready to engage...unless you're too afraid of the truth.

~ The Infidel Alliance
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More pain and suffering for you Reed....
written by The Infidel Alliance , September 26, 2012
Koran 33:21 -

لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِي رَسُولِ اللَّهِ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِّمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَذَكَرَ اللَّهَ كَثِيرًا

Transliteration: Laqad kana lakum fee rasooli Allahi oswatun hasanatun liman kana yarjoo Allaha waalyawma alakhira wathakara Allaha katheeran

Abdullah Yusuf Ali: Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.

Mufti Taqi Usmani: There is indeed a good model for you in the Messenger of Allah - for the one who has hope in Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah profusely.

Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall: Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the last Day, and remembereth Allah much.

Sahih International: There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often.

French: En effet, vous avez dans le Messager d'Allah un excellent modèle [à suivre], pour quiconque espère en Allah et au Jour dernier et invoque Allah fréquemment.

Japanese: 本当にアッラーの使徒は,アッラーと終
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abc and reed...and malem if he dares...
written by Amboyduke , September 26, 2012
Well boys...good old Amboyduke is waiting for you to engage IA...

Let's see wWHO has the guts here.

My bet's on IA. Totally.

Use your brain's, boys...and face the fact that islam is collective insanity...and leave....Bwwhhahhaaaaaaaaaaaaa...!!!
0
Well...?
written by Amboyduke , September 26, 2012
Waiting......

Ready, steady.....GOOOOOO!!!!

LoL
0
You can leave Islam....
written by The Infidel Alliance , September 26, 2012
Dear 'Reed Wilson', 'abc' and 'malem' (my old friend),

This is the 21st century, not the 7th. Human beings worldwide have embraced their natural God given rights of freedom of thought, speech and conscience.

People today no longer need to sacrifice their humanity to submit in fealty to tyrannical barbarian criminal sociopaths like Muhammed. You are free to reject this violent primitive personality death cult.

Use your brains....search your souls....seek the truth....you know Muhammed is a monster as only a monster has to demand submission, only a monster survives by terrorizing, only a monster is consumed by hatred and violence.

I know it's scary to contemplate leaving Islam: Bukhari (52:260) - "The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.'", but you can do it! There are 6 billion members of The Infidel Alliance willing to help you.

Find a higher calling, Reed, abc, Malem, find a higher consciousness, a greater morality. Seek the love of Jesus, the celebration of life in Judaism, the peace of the Buddha, or even the whatever of atheism/secular humanism.

Set yourself free. Your life need not be consumed by hatred anymore.

Your friend in peace,

~ The Infidel Alliance
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , September 27, 2012

More pain and suffering for you Reed..Koran 33:21 - لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِي رَسُولِ اللَّهِ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِّمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَذَكَرَ اللَّهَ كَثِيرًا

Abdullah Yusuf Ali: Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah."

Thanks for your feelings. What is pain and suffering for Reed there. The situation is also mentioned in the neighboring verses in which he was considered as good example.

Abaraham and his companions were also same أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ in Quran 60:4

قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ إِذْ قَالُوا لِقَوْمِهِمْ إِنَّا بُرَآءُ مِنكُمْ وَمِمَّا تَعْبُدُونَ مِن دُونِ اللَّـهِ كَفَرْنَا بِكُمْ وَبَدَا بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمُ الْعَدَاوَةُ وَالْبَغْضَاءُ أَبَدًا حَتَّىٰ تُؤْمِنُوا بِاللَّـهِ وَحْدَهُ إِلَّا قَوْلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ لِأَبِيهِ لَأَسْتَغْفِرَنَّ لَكَ وَمَا أَمْلِكُ لَكَ مِنَ اللَّـهِ مِن شَيْءٍ ۖ رَّبَّنَا عَلَيْكَ تَوَكَّلْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ أَنَبْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ


"You have had a good example أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ in Abraham, and those with him, when they said to their people, 'We are quit of you and that you serve, apart from God. We disbelieve in you, and between us and you enmity has shown itself, and hatred for ever, until you believe in God alone. (Except that Abraham said unto his father, 'Certainly I shall ask pardon for thee; but I have no power to do aught for thee against God.') 'Our Lord, in Thee we trust; to Thee we turn; to Thee is the homecoming."

Imagine hundreds of أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ in Quran.
0
Reed
written by fineliving56 , September 27, 2012
Not hundred of '' Iswa Hasana '' …which means '' good guide '' In Quran

ONLY 25 aya out of more then a thousend Aya … the repotition just make it LOOK more in numbers then it actually is .

You are over estimating Quran's grandness …

if it was a grand Quran that came from any God , the number of so called GOOD Ayas, should have been including ALL OF the AYAS IN QURAN .. anything less is unacceptable
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , September 27, 2012
fineliving. I was answering Infidal Alliance about Uswa hasna. It is general impression of muslims that only mohammad was uswa hasna and roe model. I gave him hundred from the very same Quran. I hope you agree.

Regarding good verses bad verses I am not the judge. Like kids we cannot like and dislike god on suitability of his instructions for them.
0
IA
written by Amboyduke , September 27, 2012
Nice post, IA...but since I think you're new on this site...you're wasting your time trying to reason with these boys.

ABC is the brightest of the 3, but malem is a doctor somewhere and Reed comes off as fairly intelligent as well...but I think they are trapped...(only my opinion)...

They're afraid to bale out, which, given the possible consequenses, is understandable.

Regardless...they NEVER offer any solution to what THEY...
(moderate muslims...oxymoron?) plan to do to combat the "radicals"...
and that is simply because there is no syuch thing as "moderates" in islam.

Looking forward to them rising to your challenge....but I won't hold my breath.
0
WILL A MUSLIM EXPLAIN....
written by The Infidel Alliance , September 27, 2012
I hope there is an honest Muslim out there who can explain why Muhammed, a known looting stealing thief according to the Islamic 'holy' books, didn't amputate his own hand.

Qur'an (5:38) - "As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power."

Is Muhammed, Islam's holy prophet and perfect man really just a holy fraud and a perfect thief, exempt from the very laws he forces others to submit to?

'Reed Wilson'? 'abc'? 'malem'? Any Muslims out there have the guts to explain this?

~ The infidel Alliance

0
...
written by Reed Wilson , September 27, 2012
Infidal Alliance. You have quoted"I know it's scary to contemplate leaving Islam: Bukhari (52:260) - "The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.'", but you can do it! There are 6 billion members of The Infidel Alliance willing to help you."

Who put 'a muslim' under bracket? Muhammad or Bukhari? Had there been no brackets, even a non Muslim cannot accept Islam. He too was equally worthy of killing.

It is a joke. Isnt it?
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , September 27, 2012
Infidal Alliance. From where you consult Bukhari? The reference (52:260) seems incomplete or simpler.
0
Amboyduke/IA
written by abc , September 28, 2012
In glad you enjoyed your holiday. It's certainly added some lead to your pencil, metaphorically speaking of course.
I have come across IA before many years ago on a pat condell page.
His style of writing has changed but the content remains as flawed.

"I hope there is an honest Muslim out there who can explain why Muhammed, a known looting stealing thief according to the Islamic 'holy' books, didn't amputate his own hand"

Sound like you have already judged him and found him guilty? A bit like judge dredd!
What do you base that upon?? Are you talking about the gazwa raids?? Or the strategic raids when in a state of war?

You still have not changed your silly name!
Infidel is a term that was used to describe Muslims by the Christians!


0
@ abc, Malem, Reed - Islamic criticism
written by This is Rami Rustom , September 28, 2012
See this discussion:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/24977

I've quoted some of it below:

>>Hadith 9:84:57: Whoever (muslim) changes his religion, kill him.
>
> This is a manufactured hadith. There is no such principle in Islam. Actually
the Quranic verse clearly says that 2:256 "There is no compulsion in religion"

Yes. And that contradicts this:

Quran 8:39 (translated by Sahih International): And fight them until
there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah .
And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.

Note that fitnah means (from wikipedia): Fitnah is an Arabic word with
connotations of secession, upheaval, and chaos. It is widely used in
Arabic daily language as an adjective which refers to "causing
problems between people" or attempting to create a chaotic situation
that tests one's faith. The exact translation of this word is often
ambiguous for non-Arabic speakers.

Do you agree that this verse is saying to forcefully cause people to
convert to Islam (while those people are doing fitnah)? If not, why
not?


And it (Quran 2:256) contradicts this:

Quran 33:26/27 (translated by Sahih International): (26) And He
(Allah) brought down those who supported them among the People of the
Scripture from their fortresses and cast terror into their hearts [so
that] a party you killed, and you took captive a party. (27) And He
caused you to inherit their land and their homes and their properties
and a land which you have not trodden. And ever is Allah , over all
things, competent.

So Allah caused Muslims to cast terror in the hearts of the People of
the Scripture (Christians and Jews), people that Muslims killed and
took captive. And Allah caused Muslims to inherit property from the
them. This is theft, which is compulsion. Do you agree?

Do you agree that the Quran contradicts itself?
0
@ abc, Malem, Reed - Sexism in Islam
written by This is Rami Rustom , September 28, 2012
See this discussion:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/24979

I quoted some of it below:

> Let me make my case on this gender equality issue in Islam. Here is a verse from Quran :
>
> [33:35] The submitting men, the submitting women, the believing men, the believing women, the obedient men, the obedient women, the truthful men, the truthful women, the steadfast men, the steadfast women, the reverent men, the reverent women, the charitable men, the charitable women, the fasting men, the fasting women, the chaste men, the chaste women, and the men who commemorate GOD frequently, and the commemorating women; GOD has prepared for them forgiveness and a great recompense.

That does not say that men and women are equal. So Allah spoke to men and women in the same sentence. No suggestion of equality. Nothing saying that they are the same. Nothing about legal rights. Nothing about nothing.


> Above verse (and similar verses along the same lines) strongly emphasizes that there can be no difference between man and woman from humanitarian, spiritual and ethical perspectives.

Humanitarian perspective? Then why does the Quran instruct men to beat
their wives? What is humanitarian about that? (see below)

What about the intellectual perspective? Your verse says nothing about
that. But the verse below says...

Quran 4:34 (translated by Sahih): Men are in charge of women by [right
of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for
maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly
obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have
them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first]
advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and
[finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no
means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

Do you still think that men and women are equal in Islam?
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , September 28, 2012
You ask "Do you still think that men and women are equal in Islam?

Let us first decide what do you mean by equal. Do you mean in size, in weight, in muscular power, in wisdom, in rights, in recompense etc.

Quran 4:34 is not discussing mothers, sisters, not girl friends and other relations. Not women. Only those wives who are supported by their husbands. There are wives who support husbands. The verse does not cover them.

When this clarification done, I will proceed further.

0
Correction please!!
written by Reed Wilson , September 28, 2012
This is Rami Rustom. My above post is for you. I forgot putting your name there.
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , September 28, 2012
Rami. You quoted "Quran 8:39 And fight them until
there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah .
And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.

It is not contradiction. A battle is going on there. It is to deal with the aggressors. You read the entire passage. You will agree with me.

A verse is not essentially complete message. This is true for any book. Sometime a sentence is a message. Sometime message is comprised of more than one sentences.

In the same sura we find:

"But if they are inclined to peace, make peace with them, and have trust in God, for He hears all and knows everything." 8:61

So Rami it is about an ongoing war. Not for you.
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , September 28, 2012
Rami. You quoted "Quran 8:39 And fight them until
there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah .
And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.

It is not contradiction. A battle is going on there. It is to deal with the aggressors. You read the entire passage. You will agree with me.

A verse is not essentially complete message. This is true for any book. Sometime a sentence is a message. Sometime message is comprised of more than one sentences.

In the same sura we find:

"But if they are inclined to peace, make peace with them, and have trust in God, for He hears all and knows everything." 8:61

So Rami it is about an ongoing war. Not for you.
0
ABC...What, exactly....,
written by Amboyduke , September 28, 2012
written by abc , September 28, 2012

...is "flawed" about it...? Do tell!

"I have come across IA before many years ago on a pat condell page.
His style of writing has changed but the content remains as flawed."

Hmmmmmmmmm???

BTW....Pat Condell is GREAT!!!!

0
@ Reed Wilson
written by This is Rami Rustom , September 29, 2012
> Rami. You quoted "Quran 8:39 And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah . And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.
>
> It is not contradiction. A battle is going on there. It is to deal with the aggressors. In the same sura we find: "But if they are inclined to peace, make peace with them, and have trust in God, for He hears all and knows everything." 8:61
>
> So Rami it is about an ongoing war. Not for you.

Yes its about a war. And in that war the Quran is instructing Muslims to make the non-Muslims into Muslims (until the religion, all of it, is for Allah). This is the bad part. Its forcing Islam on non-Muslims. Its (physically) forcing conversion to Islam. Its barbaric.
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , September 29, 2012
Rustam. You write "Its forcing Islam on non-Muslims. Its (physically) forcing conversion to Islam. Its barbaric."

From you get that. It is not there. If you read the Chapter 8 you would know that they were aggressors and were stopping believers to enter in the Masjid Alharam for performing hajj. This is called fitna there. Other religions are not fitna Rustam.

Quran calls all people as people of book. This is respect of mankind. When someone makes mischief, he is, of course, not honorable. Read 2:62.,
0
...
written by Reed Wilson , September 29, 2012
Rustam. I know you through your comments only. My assessment is that you are too young to appreciate/understand Quran.

You have the privilege of not being answerable till you reach to an age.
0
@ Reed Wilson - Every Quran verse is flawed.
written by This is Rami Rustom , September 29, 2012
> Rustam. I know you through your comments only.

You should read my 3 articles on this site.

> My assessment is that you are too young to appreciate/understand Quran.

Age does not affecting reasoning ability. Only epistemological knowledge does (and I don't mean that it must be conscious and explicit knowledge - most of our epistemological knowledge is subconscious and inexplicit).

My assessment is that you are suffering from some anti-rational memes. You rationalize (i.e. create theories) in order to protect your assumed theories (Quran verses) from criticism. You've been rationalizing for so long that you've become very efficient at it. Most of the time, you do it so quickly that you barely notice that you do it. You hear a criticism of one of your assumed theories (a Quran verse) and you (almost) instantly create a rationalization (theory) that criticizes that criticism, then you immediately stop thinking about your rationalization (otherwise you would catch yourself lying and realize the irrationality in your thinking). Its analogous to a hit and run and then denying that you hit anybody (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hit_and_run_(vehicular)).

For you, rational discussion won't persuade you. Rational discussion happens when a person says/creates an idea, another person criticizes that idea, and then the first person (or anyone) criticizes that criticism. And the ideas left uncriticized are labeled as the truth, for now, until someone in the future creates a new criticism. And the ideas that are criticizes are labeled as false.

Now think about how you've been discussing. I've provided you with criticisms of the Quran and you haven't criticized my criticisms. So unless you have criticisms of my criticisms, then you should consider the Quran verses as false. But you haven't done that. This is the mark of irrationality.

You don't want to think. You only want to believe without reason - which is what we call faith. Irrationality is not good for you. Its a bad way to live. Its immoral. New problems are inevitable in your life. Those problems have the potential to cause you suffering. If you don't solve those problems, then you will suffer. And the only reliable way to solve those problems is philosophical thinking. But you instead choose to rely on Allah to solve your problems and to give you the courage to withstand the problems that he didn't solve. But he does neither.

> You have the privilege of not being answerable till you reach to an age.

I answer to no one.
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...
written by Reed Wilson , September 29, 2012
Rami. You write "You've been rationalizing for so long that you've become very efficient at it."

Your above is one complete verse. It does require context to understand. I really dont realize if I were ever 'rationalizing' any thing here. Would you bother giving some example of such rationalization?
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Reed ..
written by fineliving56 , September 29, 2012
Open your mind Reed … age has nothing to do with it … even at your age changing your way of thinking is not too late and it not unusual .

Reed ..

We are here participating in this fine website, to find a solution to the problem of Muslims tendencies to violence against others [ unfortunately we have to share this earth with them ] and the only way for non Muslims to understand Muslims is to analyze and dissect all sources of Islam … Quran , Hadeeth and Sunna

After all … that is all they got !

Analyzing and criticizing and [Quran is no exception] is good as Rami have been saying to you .. it leads to better understanding of our past [ Islamic past in this case ] and better understanding leads to better life and happiness with self and others .

As we all know we have established that most of Quran content is orders to violence [ numbers do not lie ]

Whether the violent parts was in Quran for WAR reasons, at the time of Muhammad , or not , that , does not matter, what MATTERS, and what is the source of our problems today with violent Muslims, is that, Muslims consider, Quran was brought to all humanity for ALL TIME

And for all time, means for all time violence against ex and non Muslims TODAY …. for all time means fallowing Muhammad path TODAY … and for all time fallowing Muhammad path translate to the right things to do TODAY .. after all, it is ordered by Quran [ supposedly].

So , Reed … until you and other Muslims understand that and you people put on your lenses and start to criticize Quran and Islam beside us [ keep your faith no one cares if you do or don't ] we will never defeat violent Muslims who choose to fallow the majority of Quran words [ violent] .. and we will never have peace living with them.

Reed …

you and Muslims like you have to help us … by, you, denying that Quran has anything to do with what is going on in the world because of violent Muslims, is absurd, manipulating and dangerous act .
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written by Reed Wilson , September 29, 2012
Rami. You write "Age does not affecting reasoning ability."

May be in your case but you would be wiser and wiser with the passage of time. Ten years hence you will realize that you were more stupid ten years back.

My guess is that you are 23 years. Forty years is the optimum age of realization according to Quran.

"We have advised the human being to be kind to parents; the mother bore with hardship and delivered while suffering a great deal of pain. The period in which the mother bore and weaned lasted for thirty months. When grew-up to strength and became forty years old, he then said, "Lord, enable me to thank for the bounties you have granted to me and my parents, and to act righteously to please You. Lord, make my offspring virtuous. Lord I turn to you in repentance; I am a Muslim". Quran 46:15

Why 'to my parents'? You may not understand at this tender age.
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@ Reed Wilson - Every Quran verse is flawed.
written by This is Rami Rustom , September 29, 2012
> Why 'to my parents'? You may not understand at this tender age.

I am a parent. My 5 year old asks better questions that you do. So again, age does not matter.

Quran's idea of respecting parents is horrible. All people should respect all people. That means that parents should respect children, yet most don't. And Muslims do this worse than non-Muslims.

The reality is that parents chose to bring their children into the world without their consent. So children owe nothing to their parents. Its parents that owe to their children.

If parents want to have kids with the intention of having their kids take care of them, THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE KIDS! YOU SHOULDN'T PUT THAT KIND OF BURDEN ON PEOPLE.

As a parent, my job is to help my children solve their problems. And in doing so, they will learn how to solve problems. This is all that matters in parenting. And this is all that children need from their parents.
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@ Reed Wilson - Every Quran verse is flawed.
written by This is Rami Rustom , September 30, 2012
> Rami. You write "You've been rationalizing for so long that you've become very efficient at it." Your above is one complete verse. It does require context to understand. I really dont realize if I were ever 'rationalizing' any thing here. Would you bother giving some example of such rationalization?

For example, you have rationalized the meaning of the word Malaaika. It means angels but you've changed it to energy. You did that in order to reject someone's criticism about a Quranic verse which had the word Malaaika in it. You created this theory (the new meaning for Malaaika) without any reasons to support your theory. You do it because you feel like it. You feel like it because it helps you reject criticism of the Quran, and you want to do that because criticism of the Quran makes you feel bad. So rationalizing the criticism of the Quran makes you feel better. You are letting your emotions control you.

Another example, you have rationalized the meaning of the word Huriaat. It means virgins but you've changed it to some kind of symbolic beings. You did it in order to reject someone's criticism about a Quranic verse which had the word Huriaat in it. You created this theory (the new meaning for Huriaat ) without any reasons to support your theory. You do it because you feel like it. You feel like it because it helps you reject criticism of the Quran, and you want to do that because criticism of the Quran makes you feel bad. So rationalizing the criticism of the Quran makes you feel better. You are letting your emotions control you.

Another example. When you're confronted with the criticism that Hadith is full of immoral things, you rationalize away the Hadith by creating the theory that Muhammad the prophet is different than Muhammad in Hadith. And you do this without reasons supporting your theory. You do this to help you feel better.
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a man of sin
written by guest , September 30, 2012
Jesus said 'you shall know them by their fruits'. 'An evil tree cannot bear good fruit and a good tree can not bear evil fruit'. God is a HOLY GOD who demands PERFECT MORAL CHARACTER.We are to hold up every word and deed according to HIS STANDARDS OF MORALITY. To proclaim a man as 'perfect' in the eyes of God who continually stole what was not his,raped at whim,declared sex with a child(who was not physically,mentally,emotinally ready for sex) was a 'good and noble act',coveted,tortured(he tortured a 100 yr. women by tying her legs to two camals thus ripping her apart)killing,maiming,hated all who critized with him, to continue to call this man 'holy and acceptable to God is blasphemy against God's goodness and Holiness and HIS CHARACTER.It is one of the biggest deceptions in the history of mankind.To make heaven as one big orgasim as reward for killing innocents is spiritually depraved.God has declared any who would beleive such lies that He would send a DELUSION that they would beleive them. This is what has happened to muslims and if they do not repent they will someday face a HOLY RIGHTEOUS GOD to give an answer of their sinful deeds and will spend eternity separated from HIM.

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About the book || Reviews by: Steven Simpson | Abul Kasem | Prof Sami Alrabaa | Ibn Kammuna

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'Islamic Jihad' in Bangla
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