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Afghanistan Lynching Proves Pastor Jones Right

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Jones burned the Koran, he says, because it inspires violence against non-Muslims. Muslim fanatics turned around and proved his point by committing koranically inspired violence against non-Muslims.


afghans violence to protest florida quran burning

Sometimes the obvious needs to be stated, especially when there is so much at stake. In this case, what is at stake are not only human lives but also the very heart of individual freedom. Because of violent reactions from many in the Muslim world, American politicians are seriously considering enacting anti-Constitutional restrictions on free speech, a shocking treachery that plays right into the hands of fascists.

"Here's the obvious: Jones burned the Koran, he says, because it inspires violence against non-Muslims. Muslim fanatics turned around and proved his point by committing koranically inspired violence against non-Muslims."

I refer, of course, specifically to the fracas wherein Christian fundamentalist preacher Terry Jones "tried," "convicted" and then burned a copy of the Muslim holy book, the Koran, with the typical violent response from thousands of rabid Muslims rampaging and murdering. Here's the obvious: Jones burned the Koran, he says, because it inspires violence against non-Muslims. Muslim fanatics turned around and proved his point by committing koranically inspired violence against non-Muslims.

Frantic fingerpointing

Naturally, instead of the blame for the murders and mayhem being laid at the feet of the killers, Jones is being assailed for the carnage, as if burning a book is comparable to murdering human beings!

"Saudi Arabia and other Muslim areas burn hundreds to thousands of Korans every year... Saudi forces are alleged to have burned a Koran in Bahrain just this past week."

It should be noted that Saudi Arabia and other Muslim areas burn hundreds to thousands of Korans every year, in order to dispose of them. Saudi forces are even alleged to have burned a Koran in Bahrain just this past week, while destroying a mosque there. Did Afghans and others go out and slaughter Saudis because of this act of desecration? No, because the Afghan president didn't get them all riled up, like he did with the infidel Terry Jones. Why not blame Hamid Karzai, then, for the savage behavior of his constituents?

Eroding freedoms

It's obviously not the burning that's the problem but the criticism; it's the pointing out that the Koran and Islam are violent which sadly elicits this violence. The restrictions on our speech and expressions will not cease with a ban on burning the Koran; we will be further compelled not to "insult" Islam, Mohammed and the Koran in any way, shape or form, including telling the truth. We will then simply be dhimmis or second-class citizens in a global Islamic caliphate under sharia law. That's how it works.

"We simply cannot allow our freedom of speech and expression to be destroyed."

So what do our politicians do? They capitulate to this egregious assault on our freedoms, forcing us into cowed dhimmitude and proving that violence and terrorism pay, so long as they are part of a religion. We simply cannot allow our freedom of speech and expression to be destroyed - these civilized liberties and human rights are what distinguish us from savagery and tyranny.

Houston, we've got a problem - and it's been around a lot longer than Terry Jones. And it's going to get a whole lot worse if we keep appeasing and allowing that thin edge to wedge itself any further. Time for the world to wake up!

Who is to blame?

Someone once told me about another person burning my first book, The Christ Conspiracy. Although I take my work very seriously, I laughed when I heard that. I did not go on a violent rampage, slaughtering dozens of innocent people. If I had, would the person who burned my book be to blame in any way?

"Saudis and other Muslims regularly burn, spit on, urinate on or otherwise desecrate Bibles."

Moreover, the Saudis and other Muslims regularly burn, spit on, urinate on or otherwise desecrate Bibles - do these acts cause Christians to rampage through the streets and national governments to condemn the instigators? Are these desecrators of non-Muslim holy texts being hauled off, having their freedom of expression removed - a religious right, in their eyes?

We are constantly reminded not to blame Islam for the bad behavior of countless Muslims, so why are Muslims excused for murdering people whose only "crime" is being a non-Muslim in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Are Muslims being held to a different - lower - standard? To be coddled like violent sociopathic children or treated like subhuman animals who just can't control themselves? Isn't that a more derogatory perspective of Muslims than is criticizing their "holy text," full of hatred and calls to violence against non-Muslims?

In deflecting the blame off the killers and restricting non-Muslim freedoms, Islamist fanatics will simply learn that violence pays, like schoolyard bullies who are never dealt with. This sort of censorial cowardice could be considered negotiating with terrorists!

Muslim-on-Muslim crimes against humanity

bangladesh genocide of children by Pakistanis 1971

And where is the outrage against "Islamically sanctioned" carnage perpetrated by Muslims against other Muslims? Like the victims of this latest uproar, are the Muslim Bengalis, as one infamous example, to blame somehow for provoking their own genocide, which has been forgotten by the world? Are hundreds of thousands of murders and rapes of Bengalis unworthy of outrage, while a book is to be protected by all means, including slaughter as well as tyrannical restrictions of freedom? The very book used to justify these atrocities?

Bengali Muslim: Genocide and rape 'Islamically sanctioned'

Kasem: Born in Bangladesh, I attended the secular schools as well as underwent strict religious discipline, and digested religious preaching.... When I was nine, a typical Mulla taught me the Islamic rituals (like prayer, ablution, fasting), and how to recite the Qur’an correctly. He also taught us that Muslims are the only inheritors of the earth, that we must never mix with the non-Muslims, we must hate them, humiliate them verbally, and if possible, physically.

In high school, I discovered a world beyond Islam. I met a few Hindus and two Christians. I found them extremely polite, peace-loving, sincere, and affable. Unfortunately, communal riots broke out in India and Bangladesh (then known as East Pakistan ). One of my Hindu friends was brutally murdered by Islamist fanatics. This was a life-changing experience, as I witnessed the mutilated dead bodies of my friend, his parents, and siblings. When I discussed this with a few Muslim gentlemen (moderate Muslims) they told me that the Hindus deserved to be killed; there should not be any Hindus in our Muslim land. Further, I learned from them that in Islam, there is a great reward for killing the non-Muslims.

"A local Imam took out a Qur'an, read a few verses, and told me the genocide and mass-rape was a hundred percent Islamic-sanctioned."

In a few years our struggle for autonomy took the shape of a Liberation Movement, seeking freedom from economic and political domination of West Pakistan, which was a strict Islamic country. In 1971 the Islamic Army of Pakistan let loose a genocide, killing around 3 million Bengalis, and raping around 250,000 Bengali women. Local Islamists helped their barbarity in every way. They justified their actions by Qur’an, ahadith, and Sharia laws. After independence, I talked about it with a local Imam. He took out a Qur’an, read a few verses, and told me the genocide and mass-rape was a hundred percent Islamic-sanctioned. He said the Bengali Muslims have deviated widely from the real Islam, and as such, they deserve Allah’s punishment, and the Pakistani army did just that to purify us. Shocked, I decided to read the theological sources of Islam.

What I discovered horrified me. It was beyond my comprehension that a religion, touted to be the religion of peace could contain such blood-curdling, terrifying, barbaric verses, cultures, and laws to entice the entire Islamic community to slaughter the infidels and the not-so-good Muslims....

There is much, much more at that must-read article, including lists of the numerous koranic verses and hadiths used over the centuries to justify violence to the tune of some 270 million dead. Is it really difficult to understand why someone would object to such a book?

Further Reading

Bangladesh genocide and rape forgotten
Bangladesh Genocide Archive
Christians in Gaza Fear for Their Lives as Muslims Burn Bibles and Destroy Crosses

Comments (46)Add Comment
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TRUE ISLAM
written by Brown Superman , April 06, 2011
The fake Allah was manufactured by the Chief Terrorist 'Mo some 14 centuries ago who inscripted his terrorism, amongst other sick beliefs and nonsensical stuffs, in the Koran. Ever since, we have humans becoming lunatics and aggressors due to exposure to Koran..... even at an early age of 4 yrs.

The best part is... KILL THE NON-BELIEVERS. They do not even understand that the religion is only a belief and never has been proven to be the truth. Yet they want you to belief what they believe (truth or not, it immaterial). It's like recruitimg members for a mafia and in some countries, they would be killed if attempting to leave the faith. Such is their democracy, a so-claimed religion of peace.
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Quran was always burn
written by Clement- Islam-Watch Pastor , April 06, 2011
The guy who first compiled the Quran burned other versions of the Quran to preserved his version. It is when it is burnt by infidel that it become a sacrillege and descretion, in which case the demon god Allah must be appeased by killing some dozens of infidels. What evidence do people still want to know that Islam is not a religion nor of any peacefull region but a violent cult that disregards the sacredness of lives. If the Quran is not the inspirer of all violent killing and destruction in the Muslim world who else is inspiring them. Do other humans experience the same in their domain? Reed Wilson should answer this question.
0
...
written by duh_swami , April 06, 2011
Muslims are always victims...Even when they are guilty, they are not guilty...It is never a Muslims fault when they act up, someone made them do it, they are always justified because they are always the victim...So Jones is guilty, not the Muslim killers...He burned a Quran, he insulted Muslim sensibilities...He hurt their feelings...So what is a mentally injured Muslim supposed to do if not attack and kill people who had nothing to do with the offense... but they are kufr, so that's good enough excuse...They can always fall back on Q 9:5 if they run out of other excuses...But don't blame them, it's Jones fault...
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Burning of Quran
written by balam , April 06, 2011
The Muslims have gained a lot of strength since Obama-bin-lad-In has got into the White House.The Pakistani Muslims want him to be the head of Muslim Ummah and future Caliphate.His first protocal,being a black Abeed was to kiss the feet of Saudi King which gave Islam a lot of credibility.If the Americans have any brains at all,they would not re-elect him as their president.Once bitten,twice shy.The Muslims can never understand that you can replace a copy of Quran but never a human life.They don't respect human life,because they are not humans themselves.Only most poisonous snakes is the right description for Muslims who can never be trusted.
0
he God-hating/Socialist-Satanic Hitler and Nazism, brainwashed many Germans to be crazy and became Nazis!
written by Katharina Sri (ex Noor Aza) , April 06, 2011
I remember meeting an ex-Nazi German man long time ago, who seems like such a nice guy -that's because he had left Nazism and felt sorry about what he had done; he was a young lad at that time. The God-hating/Socialist-Satanic Hitler and Nazism, brainwashed many Germans to be crazy and became Nazis but when Hitler and Nazism were eliminated, most Germans (except the Socialists, until today) woke up from their zombie-like brainwashing and became normal again! The same is of Islam, which is about evil and savage Arabic cult, as created by the Arabic Pedophile rapist, slave-owner (including of Jewish captive women/girls as sex-slaves), robber and mass murderer of the Jews, Mohammed! Mohammed and Islam also produce crazy followers - I was one myself, when I was a Muslim, always paranoid about 'infidels' (but actually loving and jealous of their freedom - that's why Muslim fanatics hate freedom of speech; so Msulims won't be told the truths about their craziness and paranoia due to Islam !)
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To burn or not to burn...
written by Walter Sieruk , April 06, 2011
It is a very terrible thing that the Muslims are engaging in violance in Afgahistan because ,in part , because of the pastors Quran burning. Nevertheless, a good Christian should not burn the Quran. The first reason is that action might inspire violance as in Afghanistan. The other reason is that a Christian should not lower himself to the level of the Muslims who burn the Bible. The Burning the Quran that's just what that pastor is doing.
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I support Pastor Jones and freedom of speech; especially against PREDATORY evil like Islam and Muslim fanatics!
written by Katharina Sri (ex Noor Aza) , April 06, 2011
I support Pastor Jones and freedom of speech; especially against PREDATORY evil like Islam and Muslim fanatics - like how Nazism was destroyed for being PREDATORY evil (our Lord Christ always condemn such predatory evil). Thus to burn the koran which promotes such PREDATORY evil which means condemning evil, and hence cannot be compared to Muslims burning the Bible because they hate the truths in the Bible. Besides, is Pastor Jones forcing others to burn the koran - No! And is Pastor Jones murdering, robbing and raping innocent people like how Muslim fanatics are doing, aping their evil and savage Mohammed, an Arabic Pedophile PREDATOR rapist, slave-owner (including of Jewish captive women/girls as sex-slaves), robber and mass murderer of the Jews, who created Islam to legitimize such evilness - No!
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The Violance in Afghanistan is terrible Indeed
written by Walter Sieruk , April 06, 2011
It does obviously need to be repeated that the violance the Muslims are doing in Afghanistan as aresult ,in part, to that Quran burning is terrible indeed. With that stated it also should the pastor Jones not not handle the subject of Islam in an intelligent way. Maybe is isn't an intelligent man. The right and intelligent way to handle the subject would be to stuty the Quran and show the world for the hoax that it really is. Which is by showing all the errors that it contains. Such as contradictions and anachronisms. After all, the Bible does teach Christians to expose the works of darkness, Ephesians 5:11. An example of this is the internet site "answering-islam.org" or the book by Don Richardson entitled SECRETS OF THE KORAN : REVEALING INSIGHTS INTO ISLAM'S HOLY BOOK
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Devout Muslims acting out the doctrine of Allah, aka Satan
written by Guy Macher , April 06, 2011
If only Christians were as devout and willing to do what Jesus commanded!
0
...
written by vbv , April 07, 2011
Phoeee, it is like the pot calling the kettle black. Both are equally lousy,irrational, and does not fit this modern age of science and reason. When I say both ,I mean both islam and christianity , both competing with each other to dominate the world with disastrous and devastating effects.
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vbv
written by Duh_swami , April 07, 2011
islam and christianity , both competing with each other to dominate the world with disastrous and devastating effects.

Maybe, but at the present time, Islam is trying a little harder...Maybe where you live it's different, but where I live Christianity is zero threat to me...
0
Hey vbv, always ignore the God-hating Socialists Hitler, Mao, Khmer Rouge and Stalin mass murder do you?
written by Katharina Sri (ex Noor Aza) , April 07, 2011
Hey vbv, you keep ignoring my question to you on the 40 millions murdered so barbarically by the God-hating Socialist savages Hitler/Nazis, Mao, Khmer Rouge and Stalin - where most of the victims are Buddists, Christians and Jews! And don't lie as if Islam and Judeo-Christianity are founded by the same God! No, Islam is created by the Arabic Pedophile rapist, robber, slave-owner (including sexual slaves such as young Jewish captive girls), and mass murderer of the Jews, Mohammed, in order to construct pure Arabian kingdom and legitimize his and his tribe’s evil and savage Arabic socio-cultural practises; whilst Judeo-Christianity is founded on our shared God's SALVATION for all humanity from all kinds of evilness! Evil people have hijacked Judeo-Christianity but our God did not teach us to love evilness unlike in Islam! And our God of the Old Testament was a very angry God at PREDATORY evilness especially at the continuous persecution and slavery of the Jewish people especially of His righteous believers since Abraham’s days; thus He allowed self-defence and punishment by the freed Jews against evil PREDATORS but our same God who came down so humbly in human flesh as Jesus Christ, in the new covenant in the New Testament is being forgiving and wants all His mankind creation to be saved but with the condition that they repent from committing evil because He still hates evilness. Now, read the whole Bible, and intelligently; in context between each verses, and between both the New Testament and Old Testament!
0
Hey vbv, always ignore the God-hating Socialists Hitler, Mao, Khmer Rouge and Stalin mass murder do you?
written by Katharina Sri (ex Noor Aza) , April 07, 2011
Hey vbv, you keep ignoring my question to you on the 40 millions murdered so barbarically by the God-hating Socialist savages Hitler/Nazis, Mao, Khmer Rouge and Stalin - where most of the victims are Buddists, Christians and Jews! And don't lie as if Islam and Judeo-Christianity are founded by the same God! No, Islam is created by the Arabic Pedophile rapist, robber, slave-owner (including sexual slaves such as young Jewish captive girls), and mass murderer of the Jews, Mohammed, in order to construct pure Arabian kingdom and legitimize his and his tribe’s evil and savage Arabic socio-cultural practises; whilst Judeo-Christianity is founded on our shared God's SALVATION for all humanity from all kinds of evilness! Evil people have hijacked Judeo-Christianity but our God did not teach us to love evilness unlike in Islam! And our God of the Old Testament was a very angry God at PREDATORY evilness especially at the continuous persecution and slavery of the Jewish people especially of His righteous believers since Abraham’s days; thus He allowed self-defence and punishment by the freed Jews against evil PREDATORS but our same God who came down so humbly in human flesh as Jesus Christ, in the new covenant in the New Testament is being forgiving and wants all His mankind creation to be saved but with the condition that they repent from committing evil because He still hates evilness. Now, read the whole Bible, and intelligently; in context between each verses, and between both the New Testament and Old Testament!
0
To Katherine Sri (ex Noor Aza)
written by vbv , April 08, 2011
Any idealogy that is based on exclusivity and intolerance to all other 'isms' is the cause of human tragedy , be it islam,christianity, judaism,hinduism, jainism,shintoism, or communism,Maoism, Polpotism, castroism,,etc. Why don't we follow secularism ,which is not intolerant or does not live in the past, not glorifying dubious characters in history,but firmly rooted in the present ? It is also called humanism. You have many humanists / atheists like Richard Dawkins , Bernard Shaw , Bertrand Russel , Einstein , Steven Weinberger, Carl Sagan , etc of modern times or Gautama Budha , Mahaveer Jain ,of ancient times. None of these personalities promoted "us versus them" and hate and destroy the other cultures kind of idealogy of the semetic cults. They contributed much more to human welfare than the mythology-pewking religions which rule by coercion and fear.
0
@V.B.V
written by balam , April 08, 2011
As an Ignorant Hindu,you can never differenciate between Jesus and Mohammad.The followers of Mohammad were probably justified in killing over 50 million Hindus and rape your mothers,sisters and daughters during their rue of India.God sent St,Thomas with a message of love in 32 A.D but a Hindu fanatic like you killed him with a javlin while he was praying oa a hil by himself in India.He preached the Gospel of Truth for 20 years in India.Then the Mohammadans came with their armies to invade India treated you the way you rightly deserved.Most of the Muslims of Indian ,Pakistan and Bangladesh origin are the illigitimate Children produced by the rape of your Hindu women.Lucky,your great grand mother survived the rape by Muslims.
0
To Katherine Sri (ex Noor Aza)
written by vbv , April 08, 2011
Of all the cults the semetic cults are the most exclusivist-type and are bent on destroying all other cultures and traditions to be in conformity with its idealogy of hate and destruction. This has inspired other intolerant idealogies like communism,Stalinism, Polpotism,Maoism,etc. These are also a kind of 'religion' making enormous demand upon its adherents to conform to its idealogy blindly without questioning. Can you question islam ,or the existence of Yaheweh/Allah, in a completely orthodox society without endangering your life ? Communism, Maoism ,Polpotism, etc are the other face of religion ,which denounces the 'gods' of established 'religions' to promote their own demi-gods like Stalin,Hitler, Mao,Polpot, Castro,Lenin, Marx,etc. Marx said religion is the opium of the masses,but what about Marxism and its offshoots like communism,stalinism, maoism,polpotism,etc? They are no less delusional and oppressive than the traditional 'religions' ,especially the exclusivist semetic cults of islam,christianity and judaism.
0
To Katherine Sri,etc....
written by vbv , April 08, 2011
I am a fan of modern atheists/humanists like Richard Dawkins, Hitchens, Sam Harris, Carl Sagan,etc.. who are only trying to open our eyes to reality , not deluding us to bow to some fictional spook in the sky , think rationally and co-exist peacefully with fellow-human, animals, nature of which we are a small part of and without which we cannot exist, god or no god ,no superspook with threatening gestures to roast us eternally in the socalled 'hereafter' is required. I am for freedom ,full freedom , freedom of conscience, free speech , democracy , all of which is the result of modern secularism / atheism/ humanism.
0
Burning of Quran
written by balam , April 08, 2011
In future ,every time,the Muslims burn the Holy Bibles in the Muslim countries,likewise,the Qurans should be set alight openly and publically in the West.It takes Iron to cut Iron.The Muslims have stopped protesting about Mohammad's cartoons now.They would either stop burning the Holy Bibles or see for themselves that their allah is as Impotent as Mohammad bin Abdullah who claimed that he could shag all his wives in one night.It was to hide his IMPOTENCE.
0
Defending Jones
written by Malem , April 08, 2011
To actually hear people defending anything by Jones is hysterical. (I will not call him a pastor since he never acts like one). Now if people were to judge all Christians based on Jones behavior (you know wishing homosexuals dead, praising the death of US Soldiers etc) I wonder how upset people would be. Yet they do the same thing when they say ALL Muslims when discussing the few who are acting out in ways that are not humane.
0
...
written by Duh_swami , April 08, 2011
(I will not call him a pastor since he never acts like one).

You know this for a fact? Have you attended his church on Sunday mornings? Where can I get quotes from Jones wanting gays dead, or praising the death of US soldiers?

I think you are having a fit of mistaken Identity syndrome...Those quotes sound like those from the Westboro Baptist Church, not Jones...The people supporting Jones and Quran burning are mostly conservatives...A conservative would never support Jones if he insulted the US military...Where is you condemnation of the Muslim murderers who killed all those people in Jones name? Were all those deaths worth it to that minute minority of Muslim trouble makers...Just how many is that, the few who are acting up? Why does it seem they are living all over the world and acting up all over the place if there are only a few? If they are just misunderstanding something about Islam, can you explain why they al seem tol misunderstand it in exactly the same way?
0
Hey malam, start facing the truths as a brave and civilzed human being!
written by Katharina Sri (ex Noor Aza) , April 08, 2011
Hey malam, Islam as created by the Arabic Pedophile rapist, robber, slave-owner (including sexual slaves such as young Jewish captive girls), and mass murderer of the Jews, Mohammed, in order to construct pure Arabian kingdom and legitimize his and his tribe’s evil and savage Arabic socio-cultural practises, is all lovey-dovey to you compared to PASTOR Jones! Get a civilized education - and start facing the truths as a brave and civilzed human being!
0
Malmen...
written by Duh_swami , April 08, 2011
Which Islamic paradise do you live in? UK? Pakistan? Yemen?
0
You again?
written by Malem , April 08, 2011
Duh_Swami are you following me? My comment was pertaining to the fanatic Mr Jones, you can find many instances of his homo-phobic behavior and hatred towards US soldiers. You ask how do I know? I have seen him in person.......
0
Malem
written by duh_swami , April 08, 2011
I don't follow anyone...I go to different threads and post where and to whom I please...If you don't like that, don't post...You have not shown Jones to have made those remarks you accuse him of...And you still have not condemned the killers of innocent people...You also make a lot of statements, but don't answer questions...Do you condemn the murderous behavior of the howling Muslim mobs who killed the UN people, over burning the Quran? As a secondary question, do you condemn the murderous behavior of howling Muslim mobs that attack Christians in Iraq or Egypt or a dozen other countries? I anxiously await your reply...
0
Some Sane Discourse
written by LingaYa , April 08, 2011
Peace is something which happens when both sides find it more beneficial and want to work for it.

Obsessional desire for one-sided peace mostly leads to hypocritical appeasement which can be considered as a political correct term for being blackmailed or acting out of paranoid fear.

But at some stage you got to conquer your fears, if something is reasonable and justified I stand up for it, you can only be tolerant and peaceful to a certain limit, but if you keep giving up to people threat forever, than one day they will say that we have to sleep with your wife and children or we will get offended and kill someone.

As long as a person paid the price for a material object and bought it legally it becomes his property and he can destroy it, if he wants, even if it’s a religious book. If Muslim are so offended then they should stop selling their holy books to non-believers.

Regarding reading the Koran, what Muslims have achieved after reading it for thousand years, which may be a motivation for me to read it. Why can’t they read it first and build something like Egyptian Pyramids with their koranic science, then they don’t need to scream all day about its merit, people will know what they posses by their deeds. If there Allah can create whole universe, why cannot he create something simpler like pyramids, or its too hard for the little pest ?

I prefer to follow kafir knowledge because they can build things which Allah and Muslims cannot even dream about and on top of that Muslims cannot even break it with their koranic science.

Bamyian Buddha was standing in Afghanistan for thousand years and making Muslims go crazy day and night and they were helpless before it. Finally it’s the explosives invented by kafirs which they used to destroy it. So the evidence shows that Muslims and Allah cannot do anything more than monkeys without the technical knowledge of kafirs.

0
Please see the ADL site
written by Malem , April 09, 2011
Heresthe Wonderful Mr Jones...
The Dove Center promotes virulently anti-gay beliefs. On August 2, 2010, the church protested against the town's openly gay mayor at Gainesville's City Hall. On its blog, the church describes homosexuality as "detestable, indecent, wicked, offensive, perverted, shameful, unnatural, degrading, impure, futile, foolish, godless, dishonorable, a lie."



Earlier, in April 2010, during the mayoral run-off, the church erected an anti-gay sign, "No homo mayor" on its property. In a video posted that same month, Terry Jones declares, "We've got us a homo mayor, with of course a homo agenda. He would like to teach your kids that homosexuality is correct, ok, proper, good. That cross-dressers are not perverts." In the same show, he later states, "Homosexuality is of the devil! Homosexuality is a sin. Homosexuality leads to hell."

0
Malman
written by duh_swami , April 09, 2011
It is no secret that many Christians and Christian churches have a serious case of gay disapproval...The Bible condemns men who lay down with men...So what's new about that? I don't see any Christians throwing gays into the fire, or throwing them off tall buildings, or hanging them...And there is no Christian law that says, gays must die'...Do you agree that killing gays is the appropriate way to deal with them? Mohammad seemed to think so...

You also said that Jones was quoted insulting the US military...Where's your quote about that?
0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , April 09, 2011
It is no secret that many Christians and Christian churches have a serious case of gay disapproval. It is condemned by God in Quran also. It is a sin. Tell them that it is a sin. God will punish them if they dont repent and reform. End of it.

God has not suggested people to punish any punishment to them.

Throwing gays into the fire, or throwing them off tall buildings, or hanging them is greater sin. This is actually fisad fil arz which is punishable under 5:33

Those criticize the punishment as inhuman are equally responsible for the crime.


0
...
written by Reed Wilson. , April 09, 2011
Throwing gays into the fire, or throwing them off tall buildings, or hanging them is a heinous crime.

Islam does not prescribe punishment for homosexuality in this world. They should be told that it is a sin. They should repent and reform. God is forgiving.

0
Malem
written by Demsci , April 10, 2011
Now you are reacting properly to the act of protest of Terry Jones, with free speech, giving your arguments. Much better than with violence.

But he explained why he burned the Quran. Because it contained many hateful texts towards non-Muslims. And we could argue that burning the Quran is a good protest-action, because it so effectively stirs up feelings among so many Muslims. It get's their attention, they react, and then the media report about it and many people consider what the Muslims do themselves that is shocking (like destroying many bibles and even churches) and what the Quran actually says.

And with only friendly polite requests both the Muslims and media and the great majority of people would not have heard of and thought and talked about very legitimate, justified, urgent appeals to Muslims to change their behavior and allegiances.

So in a way intransigence, stubborn refusal to consider friendly protests, Muslims provoked Terry Jones and the approval of quran-burning of so many citizens.

And what we now see is the old logical fallacy; When Muslims don't want to consider and discuss the message, voila, they start to discredit, smear the messenger, Terry Jones, as you just did on this thread.
0
Muslims seem to have a "collective responsibility" which Christians do not seem to have.
written by Demsci , April 10, 2011
About “tarring all Muslims with the same brush” because of the bad actions of a few. You compare that to “tarring all Christians with the same brush” because of the actions of a few. That seems fair enough.

Only it isn't fair IMO. Criticism on Muslims and Christians should IMO be more a question of allegiances. You see, in democracies we give power to the people as much as we can. The Christians, certainly Terry Jones, en masse subscribe to all Democratic essential laws and principles.

But on blogs like Islam Watch, FaithFreedomInt, Jihad Watch, AtlasShrugs mountains of evidence or clues are daily shown that Muslims have their primary allegiance to the Ummah,with a majority of very anti-democratic members, and to some decidedly anti-democratic laws, like death-penalty for apostasy, unequal treatment of men and women, etc. And it seems that the vast majority of Muslims have that allegiance, as is ordained by Islam. Indeed it seems that this allegiance is a must for a Muslim.

It could be argued that for that Muslims have a "collective responsibility" which Christians don't have. Because if you asked the majority of Muslims about their primary loyalties and did the same with the majority of Christians the outcome would be very different among these groups.

And the good part about this situation is that the Muslims have the opportunity to actually switch sides, away and against the so-called radicals, and towards the side of the Democratic people. And Muslims like you we never hear saying that Democracy is a problem for you but we often hear you demanding not to “tar yourself with the same brush as the "radicals', the terrorists”.

But still almost no Muslim will openly break with the Ummah and join the Democratic community. And many of us believe that that is because Islam simply cannot be reformed, and that Muslims somehow refuse to acknowledge that.
But proudly declaring to all those media, politicians and media, that Muslims have a better alternative for the Democratic system, and accepting all the consequences, would be the admirable thing to do for them.
0
Demsci
written by Malem , April 10, 2011
Terry Jones is just an attention seeking person who has skewed view of reality. That is not calling him names or smearing him, it is fact. I think you would agree anyone who thinks another person should die just because of their sexual orientation, is a bit off. I look at such people as fringe folk, theres many in our world, heck there is a bunch in Islam who give it a bad name. In terms of democracy you only need to look at Turkey, majority Muslim, quite democratic. Egypt will be next as others fall in line. However Islam is not the only religion that has this issue one only as to look at the human rights violations weekly in China or Russia, or Venezuela...not Muslim. Islam can fit in well with democracy, I see it everyday. Most moderate Muslims do not have a facination with the Ummah as many outside the religion say they do, its just not there. Peace to you.
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Malem...you really are off in LaLa land...
written by Duh_swami , April 10, 2011
But you did smear him...You loudly pointed out his anti-gay bigotry, and you accused him of severely insulting US troops...I asked you twice to back up the second claim, I am still waiting...

'Most moderate Muslims do not have a facination with the Ummah as many outside the religion say they do, its just not there'

Then you have an ummah full of apostates..haha, It is not me you have to answer to, it is Allah, and maybe a few pzzed off Wahabbi's....I wonder what it is like to be on the sht list of thousands of rabid Salafists...One thing Allah hates is moderates...He considers you moderate people kufr and his attitude about you is best expressed in Quran 98:6...And if you come directly to his attention, he may will you the effects of Quran 5:33...He will show you what you have done...If I were you, I would pray more often and a little harder...
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Duh-Swami, I agree with you
written by Demsci , April 10, 2011
Nice to see you fighting alongside me, Duh-Swami. I think we may differ in opinion on minor issues and in style, but we are in agreement on many essential points. I appreciate you postikling both JW and IW very much.
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correction
written by Demsci , April 10, 2011
Sorry I meant: I appreciate your posting on both JW and IW very much.
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Malem, the resistance and evidence against Islam is too high, you eventually must choose clearly.
written by Demsci , April 10, 2011
I really don't care about Terry Jones' character, I think we should focus on his last message. And any way, more Quran-burnings, by other persons already took place and are likely to take place.

About Democracy and Islam. Let us talk about their relationship with ever increasing knowledge of how and where both of them work, what both of them want in the long run. It seems you think there are Democracies, there are Islamic nations with tyranny, and there are a great many of them. And then there are somehow the Islamic Democratic state of Turkey and a group of Democratic Muslims.

But knowledge of both Islam and Democracy tells us their laws are sometimes clearly at variance with each other. Also the interests of Democratic nations and those of tyrannical Islamic nations are at variance with each other. It seems clear to Islam-wise Democrats that combination of the 2 cannot happen with Islam in control, only with Democracy in control.

Which will Muslims choose? Islamic Tyranny or Democracy? Dare they openly declare which side they choose? Moderate Muslims are only Muslims who are less Islamic than normal Muslims. But Muslims could now, with all the available evidence also be considered simply TOO LESS Democratic, or anti-Democratic.

Will Democratic, not mere moderate, but really Democratic Muslims initiate Islamic Democratic groups, with Democratic conditions on membership?

Or will moderate Muslims honestly admit that their being Muslim simply forces them to choose the sides of tyrannical groups with anti-democratic laws and principles? As they can be considered doing now, in view of all the evidence?

Or will moderate Muslims arrogantly but ignorantly or very possibly downright dishonestly only obfuscate and deny and try to shut down highly desirable clarification&choice-debates with ad hominem-attacks or even violent attacks on critics? Will they forever use invalid Tu Quoque-tactics, like comparing islam with Christianity? Will they futilely attempt to hide the truth, even when very Islam-knowledgeable Islam-critics, with arab-speaking apostates among them, clearly show the world the principles, laws and aims of Islam?

Perhaps indeed soon many Muslims will realise that Islam cannot conquer the world anymore and they will realise that time is running out for Islam even in consolidating it's current numbers and power. Because of the exponential increase in all sorts of technology. And because of the Terry Jones's, Geert Wilders's and all those Democratic watchdogs and their exponently growing number of followers.

And perhaps soon vast numbers of Muslims will indeed only want to submit to all of Democracy and they will reject firmly those who still want Islam to be supreme, in most currently Islamic nations.
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Demsci
written by Duh_swami , April 10, 2011
Than...Great minds think alike, but not always...If anyone agreed with me completely it would freak me out...You would be surprised how many educated, and gifted people disagree with me...
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...
written by Duh_swami , April 10, 2011
That should say thanks...
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Kudos!
written by Kapil , April 14, 2011
You guys are all amazing in the way you criticize this vile cult called "Pisslam"! I commend you guys! But this Reed, never understands anything!
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Not a cult Kapi
written by Malem , April 14, 2011
Islam is a religion not a cult, those are two drastically different terms. I do find it odd that in order to make your point you feel the need to use name calling, then again I am getting the feeling that many people on this site, when confronted with an alternative point, they retreat to a position of using vulgar language and name calling. By anyones standards that is immature if not childish and diminishes your point to not be taken seriously.
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The cult of Islam
written by duh_swami , April 14, 2011
Cult...from dictionary.com

1.a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

That's Islam...

2.an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers...

That's Islam...Mohammad...

3.the object of such devotion..

That's Islam...Quran- Mohammad

4.a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.

That's Islam and Mohammad again...

5.Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

Islam again...

6.a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.

That's Islam, Muslims and Mohammad...

I think it is clear that Islam is a cult...

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Malem
written by duh_swami , April 14, 2011
they retreat to a position of using vulgar language and name calling. By anyones standards that is immature if not childish and diminishes your point to not be taken seriously.

You're not going to cry are you?

Reed Wilson gets called all kinds of things and he never cry's...
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point proven!
written by Kapil , April 15, 2011
I rest my case! I always knew that Islam was a sadistic and intolerant cult!
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Duh Swami
written by malem , April 18, 2011
Of course Im not crying, you made my point. Because certain people know they are wrong they retreat toi juvenile behavior, spout out some vulgarity and run and hide. If that is the way you want to dialogue, that is fine as I have worked with children for many years an understand that kind of behavior. if however you want to discuss certain topics in a mature fashion with some intelligence, that might even be better. I will leave it to you, what route do you want to take, the 5 year old crying and yelling or a mature adult actually engaged in discussion? Muslims choose discussions :)
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Jones in Jail
written by Karma , April 26, 2011
The hate monger was arrested on Good Friday! Karma is in the air!!
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Karma will work ...
written by fineliving56 , April 26, 2011
in the 20 innocents UN killings the muslim blooding hands guilty of killing …karma will work both ways …or you too stupid to know that ….:-) .

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