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Categories of Islamic Murder

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Modern civilized ethics stand on the premise that individuals hold certain inalienable rights, and the right to “Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness” are the prime amongst them. But, in Islam, murder as a divine sacrament of Allah, guaranteeing accession to paradise.

THE RIGHT TO “LIFE, LIBERTY, HAPPINESS”

Western Civilization believes in the sanctify of all human life, equality of all races, equality of men and women, Golden Rule, democracy and freedom of speech, press, and assembly. Islam believes in the oppression and even summary murder, of non-Muslims, the superiority of Muslims over non-Muslims (kafirs), superiority of Arab Muslims over other Muslims, Muslim men over women, the latter being deemed former’s property, totalitarianism of Sharia Law, ownership of kafir slaves and sex slaves, rape, terrorization and torture of non-believers.

Non-Muslims are not human beings, but subhumans, who can be murdered, tortured, terrorized, raped, and enslaved. In Islam, murder of kafirs is not murder but divine holy acts sanctioned by Allah, which opens to Muslims the door of Allah’s Paradise, filled with whorish eternal virgins (houris).

Quran 9:111: “Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.

Following are 22 different categories of Islamic murder, sanctioned by Allah.

1) CERTAIN KAFIRS MUST BE SUMMARILY MURDERED

QURAN 9:5: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Quran 22:19-22: “for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods.”

The message of verses 9:5 & 22:19-22 are: The pagan kafirs must either convert to Islam, who would keep up prayer, or be murdered.

2) CHRISTIANS AND JEWS MUST BE MURDERED IF THEY REFUSE TO PAY JIZYA TAX

VERSE 9:29: VERSE OF CRIMINAL EXTORTION

Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

This verses sanctifies the attacking and killing of the so-called 'people of the book’ (i.e. Jews and Christians), until they are defeated and submitted to the supremacy of Islam and in willing humiliation, pay jizya (submission) tax to Muslims. Verse 9:29 is a divine call to mass-murder and extermination of the Jews and Christians, like verse 9:5 is for the Pagans. Only Hitler instructed his followers to exterminate the Jews so completely in such an open instruction.

3) CALL TO EXTERMINATION OF THE JEWS

Bukhari 4:52:177: "Allah's Apostle said, 'The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."'

4) MURDER APOSTATES OF ISLAM

VERSE 4:89 – VERSE OF MURDERING THE APOSTATES

They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.

Bukhari, 4.52.260: “The Prophet said, ‘If a Muslim discards his religion, kill him.

In another verse (Quran 5:33), Allah said about apostates “they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and feet be cut off from the opposite sides, or exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world; and a great torment is theirs in the hereafter."

Ishaq:550: “The reason that Allah’s Messenger rdered Abdullash Bin Sarh slain was because he had become a Muslim and used to write down Qur’an Revelation. Then he apostatized (rejected Islam) after becoming suspicious of some verses which prophet changed after his suggestions.

Ishaq:551: “The Messenger ordered Miqyas’ assassination, because he became a renegade by rejecting Islam.

Bukhari 5:59:632: “Once Muadh paid a visit to Abu Musa and saw a chained man.Muadh asked, "What is this?" Abu Musa said, "(He was) a Jew who embraced Islam and has now turned apostate." Muadh said, "I will surely chop off his neck!"

5) MURDER THOSE WHO CREATE CORRUPTION IN THE LAND

VERSE 5:32: VERSE OF MURDER, NOT OF LOVE & HUMANITY

For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth.

Here, “corruption in the land” means rejecting Islam and continue practicing other religions. And extermination of such people is commanded in this verse. The apostates of Islam, by rejecting Islam, create corruption in the land; Muslim women, who demand equality with men, rejecting what Allah has ordained, create corruption in the land; Muslim girls in the West, who reject Islamic way of life and adopt the Western culture, create corruption in the land; and so on.

Verse 5:32 in fact gives license to summary murder of innocent people, yet President Obama quoted it in his Cairo speech as a symbol of sublime humanity of Islam. This is a teaching of madness masquerading as a teaching of love.

6) MURDER THOSE, WHO REFUSE TO BECOME MUSLIMS

QURAN 5:33 -- VERSE OF BARBARIC CRUELTY

The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;

7) HONOUR THY MUSLIM FATHER OR BE MURDERED

HONOR MURDER

A Muslim man defines his honor not by his own integrity and dignified actions, but through the actions and behaviors of his wife and children who are his property. Dishonor a Muslim man is a grave crime, deserving murder.

Honor murder is sanctioned in “Umdat al-Saliq” or “Reliance of the Traveller”, a manual of Islamic law, certified in 1991 as a reliable guide to Sunni Islam by Cairo’s al-Azhar University, the most prestigious and authoritative institute of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence in the world. This 14th-century law-manual states that punishment or “retaliation is obligatory against anyone, who kills a human being purely intentionally and without right”, EXCEPT when “a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers)” kills their “offspring, or offspring’s offspring” (section o1.1-2). In other words, a parent, who murders his/her child for the sake of honor, is not a crime under Islamic law or Shariah.

Grand Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini (1902-1989), the leader the Iranian Islamic revolution (1979) and the supreme authority of Shiite Islam, gave immunity for parents, who murder their children. In his book, “Resaleh Towzih Al-Massael” (“A Clarification of Questions”, 1961), Khomeini specifies under “conditions of retaliation” (section 2.3 of Appendix II) that there is no penalty for a father who kills his child. A killer is punished if: “The slayer is not the father of the slain, nor the parental grandfather (apparently)”.

8) FLOGGING FOR ADULTERY/FORNICATION, POSSIBLY LEADING TO MURDER

Adultery and fornication must be punished by flogging with a hundred stripes/stoning.

QURAN 24:2: VERSE OF BARBARITY

Quran 24:2 “The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, - flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by God, if ye believe in God and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

If Muslims are to follow the Quran, they have to mercilessly flog lovers 100 times, if they make love before marriage. Many such floggings have been reported to lead to death of the victims in recent past.

Interestingly, verses in the Quran specifically allow men to have sex with unlimited number of female slaves. This horrible crime of serial rape against a non-Muslim woman is not considered adultery or fornication. Instead, it is a divinely sanctified virtuous act.

9) MURDER BY STONING

Muhammad had a woman, who had conceived through adultery, stoned to death immediately after she gave birth. Following hadith describes the gruesome punishment:

And when he had given command over her and she was put in a hole up to her breast, he ordered the people to stone her. Khalid b. al-Walid came forward with a stone which he threw at her head, and when the blood spurted on his face he cursed her…” (Muslim, 4206)

10) MURDER AS AN ACT OF RETALIATION

Quran 2.178: “O you who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain, the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female, but if any remission is made to any one by his (aggrieved) brother, then prosecution (for the bloodwit) should be made according to usage, and payment should be made to him in a good manner; this is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy; so whoever exceeds the limit after this he shall have a painful chastisement.

You kill one of my slaves, females or free man, and I’ll kill one of your slaves, females or free man.

11) MURDERING MUSLIMS FOR MISSING PRAYER BY BURNING THEM ALIVE

Bukhari, 1.11.626:  “The Prophet said, “burn all those who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes.

Bukhari, 1.11.617: “I would order someone to collect firewood and another to lead prayer. Then I would burn the houses of men who did not present themselves at the compulsory prayer and prostration.”  

12) CASTRATION OF BLACK SLAVES IN ISLAM, PAVING THEIR TOTAL EXTERMINATION FROM THE WORLD

In a Hadith, Muhammad is quoted as saying that Blacks are, "pug-nosed slaves". (Sahih Moslem vol. 9, p. 46-47).

Tabari II:21: "Ham [Africans] begat all those who are black and curly-haired, while Japheth [Turks] begat all those who are full-faced with small eyes, and Shem [Arabs] begat everyone who is handsome of face with beautiful hair. Noah prayed that the hair of Ham's descendants would not grow beyond their ears, and that whenever his descendants met Shem's, the latter would enslave them."

So, in Islam, Black people are only deserving of being enslaved. Else, Blacks are said to be “Satan”, who annoyed prophet Muhammad; and they will suffer painful doom.

Ishaq:243: "I heard the Apostle say: 'Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!' He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks.... Allah sent down concerning him: 'To those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom." [9:61] "Gabriel came to Muhammad and said, 'If a black man comes to you his heart is more gross than a donkey's.'"

And Blacks, who are to be summarily enslaved by the Islamic Arabs, were also summarily castrated, "based on the assumption that the blacks had an ungovernable sexual appetite.” The result is obvious: while most black slaves sent to the Americas could marry and have families, leaving a vibrant Diaspora, a larger number male Black slaves sent to the Middle East and other parts of the Islamic world, were all castrated, and failed to leave any Diaspora behind in the Muslim world. In other words, a Black population, bigger than that of the Americas and West Indies, have been wiped out from the face of the earth due to castration of Islamic black slaves.

To be noted that a bigger number of Black males died immediately from the unhygienic castration process as up to 75% dies from the operation.

13) MURDER OF SLAVES

"If an owned slave assaults somebody and damages his property, his crime will be tied to his neck. It will be said to his master, ‘If you wish, you can pay the fine for the damages done by your slave or deliver him to be sentenced to death.' His master has to choose one of the two options – either the value of the slave and his price or the damage the slave has caused." (Vol. 32, p. 202, Ibn Timiyya)

14) MURDERING PRISONERS OF WAR

Quran 8:67: “It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

It means: Allah insisted the Prophet to kill all the prisoners, and should not keep any surrendered prisoners alive until He (Prophet) occupied entire Arabia.

15) MURDERING GAYS

'If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done' (Abu Dawud, 4447).

Another hadith says that homosexuals should be burned alive or killed by pushing walls upon them:

Ibn Abbas and Abu Huraira reported God's messenger as saying, 'Accursed is he who does what Lot's people did.' In a version . . . on the authority of Ibn Abbas it says that Ali [Muhammad's cousin and son—in—law] had two people burned and that Abu Bakr [Muhammad's chief companion] had a wall thrown down on them. (Mishkat, vol. 1, p. 765, Prescribed Punishments)

16) MURDERING MUSLIMS/NON-MUSLMS

Whether one is a Muslim or non-Muslims, he/she must be killed for following offences (Reliance of the Traveler pp. 597-98, o8.7):

(1)   Reviling Allah or his Messenger;

(2)   being sarcastic about 'Allah's name, His command, His interdiction, His promise, or His threat';

(3)   denying any verse of the Quran or 'anything which by scholarly consensus belongs to it, or to add a verse that does not belong to it';

(4)   holding that 'any of Allah's messengers or prophets are liars, or to deny their being sent';

(5)   reviling the religion of Islam;

(6)   being sarcastic about any ruling of the Sacred Law;

(7)   denying that Allah intended 'the Prophet's message . . . to be the religion followed by the entire world.'

17) ADDITIONAL ACTS JUSTIFYING MURDER OF NON-MUSLIMS

Apart from acts mention under section 16, a non-Muslim, living under Islamic rule, may be liable to death sentence for the following actions (p. 609, o11.10 (1)—(5)):

(1) Commit adultery with a Muslim woman or marry her;

(2) conceal spies of hostile forces;

(3) lead a Muslim away from Islam;

(4) mention something impermissible about Allah, the Prophet . . . or Islam.

According to the discretion of the caliph or his representative, the punishments for violating these rules are as follows: (1) death, (2) enslavement, (3) release without paying anything, and (4) ransoming in exchange for money.

These punishments also execute free speech and freedom of religion or conscience.

18) JIHAD AS AN INSTRUMENT OF MURDER, TERROR, RAPE, TORTURE

Following are some of the legalized rules of Jihad found in the Quran, hadith, and classical legal opinions:

(1)   Women and children are enslaved. They can either be sold, or the Muslims may 'marry' the women, since their marriages are automatically annulled upon their capture. Muslim men can murder their slaves.

(2)   Jihadists may have sex with slave women. Ali, Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law, did this. This is rape.

(3)   Women and children must not be killed during war, unless this happens in a nighttime raid when visibility was low. All those killed in Jihad are acts of Murder.  To kill in the name of God is murder.

(4)   Old men and monks could be killed.

(5)   A captured enemy of war could be killed, enslaved, ransomed for money or an exchange, freely released, or beaten. One time Muhammad even tortured a citizen of the city of Khaybar in order to extract information about where the wealth of the city was hidden. When he refused to reveal the location of the city wealth he was taken and murdered by beheading.

(6)   Threat of Murder to force conversions. Enemy men who converted could keep their property and small children. This law is so excessive that it amounts to forced conversion. Only the strongest of the strong could resist this coercion and remain a non-Muslim.

(7)   Civilian property may be confiscated.

(8)   Civilian homes may be destroyed.

(9)   Civilian fruit trees may be destroyed.

(10)                       Pagan Arabs had to convert or die. This does not allow for the freedom of religion or conscience.

(11)                       People of the Book (Jews and Christians) had three options (Sura 9:29): fight and die; convert and pay a forced 'charity' or zakat tax; or keep their Biblical faith and pay a jizya or poll tax.  Refusal or future failure to pay this tax meant your murder. The last two options mean that money flows into the Islamic treasury, so why would Muhammad receive a revelation to dry up this money flow?

Thus, jihad, divinely sanctioned by Allah, is aggressive, coercive, and murderous.

19) MURDEREDING MUSLIMS, IF THEY REFUGE TO GO ON JIHAD

Quran 2.216: Fighting is prescribed for Muslims.

Allah has also said:

"If you march not forth, He will punish you with a painful torment and will replace you with another people, and you cannot harm Him at all, and Allah is able to do all things." (Verse 9:39).

It is very clear from this aya that you have to carry Allah’s declaration to punish the jihad dodgers and eliminate them.

20) EXTERMINATION OF MUSICANS, SINGERS IN ISLAM

Muhammad had murdered poets, who criticized his actions. As a totalitarian, he decreed that all music be destroyed from the human race. Music is one of the greatest gifts granted by God to mankind. It is one of the greatest achievements of mankind to utilize his ability to speak and turn words and thoughts into music. Islam will destroy the joy of humanity.

Hadith Qudsi 19:5: "The Prophet said that Allah commanded him to destroy all the musical instruments, idols, crosses and all the trappings of ignorance."

The Hadith Qudsi, or holy Hadith, are those in which Muhammad transmits the words of Allah, although those words are not in the Qur'an.

Muhammad also said ('Umdat al-Salik r40.0):

(1)   “Allah Mighty and Majestic sent me as a guidance and mercy to believers and commanded me to do away with musical instruments, flutes, strings, crucifixes, and the affair of the pre-Islamic period of ignorance.”

(2)   “On the Day of Resurrection, Allah will pour molten lead into the ears of whoever sits listening to a songstress.”

(3)   “Song makes hypocrisy grow in the heart as water does herbage.”

(4)   “This community will experience the swallowing up of some people by the earth, metamorphosis of some into animals, and being rained upon with stones.” Someone asked, “When will this be, O Messenger of Allah?” and he said, “When songstresses and musical instruments appear and wine is held to be lawful.”

(5)   “There will be peoples of my Community who will hold fornication, silk, wine, and musical instruments to be lawful ….”

The Ayatollah Khomeini: "Allah did not create man so that he could have fun. The aim of creation was for mankind to be put to the test through hardship and prayer. An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humor in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious."

21) REASONS FOR DEATH PUNISHMENT AS PER SHARIA LAW

Murder in the Koran and Sunna of the prophet is reinforced in Sharia Law.

  • The punishment for apostasy (changing or discarding one's Islamic religion) is death. (Fatwa 4400, Part No. 1, Page 334 & 335)
  • Mocking anything in the Qur'an or the Sunnah of the prophet Muhammad is apostasy and therefore punishable by death. (Fatwa 2196, Part No. 2, Page 42)
  • Criticizing Islam, shari'ah law or the Sunnah of the prophet Muhammad is apostasy and therefore punishable by death. (Fatwa 21021, Part No. 1, Page 414)
  • Any Muslim who states a preference for democracy rather than shari'ah law or questions anything in the Qur'an or Sunnah is a kafir (disbeliever), considered an apostate, and therefore sentenced to death. (Fatwa 19351, Part No. 22, Page 239-248)

22) DEATH TO CHRISTIANS WHO DO NOT OBEY THE FOLLOWING

Christians and Jews, recognized as  dhimmis in Islam, must either convert to Islam or agree to pay a jizya tax and accept or be murdered.

The status and responsibilities of the Dhimmi are set down in the Pact of Umar an agreement made, according to Islamic tradition, between the caliph Umar, who ruled the Muslims from 634 to 644, and a Christian community of Syria. Christians can be murdered if they disobey any of the following tenets of this Pact.

PACT OF UMAR

In return for “safety for ourselves, children, property and followers of our religion”

The Christians will not:

  • Build “a monastery, church, or a sanctuary for a monk”;
  • “Restore any place of worship that needs restoration”;
  • Use such places “for the purpose of enmity against Muslims”;
  • “Allow a spy against Muslims into our churches and homes or hide deceit [or betrayal] against Muslims”;
  • Imitate the Muslims’ “clothing, caps, turbans, sandals, hairstyles, speech, nicknames and title names”;
    6. “Ride on saddles, hang swords on the shoulders, collect weapons of any kind or carry these weapons”;
  • “Encrypt our stamps in Arabic”
  • “Sell liquor”
  • “Teach our children the Qur’an”;
  • “Publicize practices of Shirk” – that is, associating partners with Allah, such as regarding Jesus as Son of God. In other words, Christian and other non-Muslim religious practice will be private, if not downright furtive;
  • Build “crosses on the outside of our churches and demonstrating them and our books in public in Muslim fairways and markets” – again, Christian worship must not be public, where Muslims can see it and become annoyed;
  • “Sound the bells in our churches, except discreetly, or raise our voices while reciting our holy books inside our churches in the presence of Muslims, nor raise our voices [with prayer] at our funerals, or light torches in funeral processions in the fairways of Muslims, or their markets”;
  • “Bury our dead next to Muslim dead”;
  • “Buy servants who were captured by Muslims”;
  • “Invite anyone to Shirk” – that is, proselytize, although the Christians also agree not to:
  • “Prevent any of our fellows from embracing Islam, if they choose to do so.” Thus the Christians can be the objects of proselytizing, but must not engage in it themselves;
  • “Beat any Muslim.”

Meanwhile, Christians must obey the following; if not, they could be killed:

  • Allow Muslims to rest “in our churches whether they come by day or night”;
  • “Open the doors [of our houses of worship] for the wayfarer and passerby”;
  • Provide board and food for “those Muslims who come as guests” for three days;
  • “Respect Muslims, move from the places we sit in if they choose to sit in them”
  • “Have the front of our hair cut, wear our customary clothes wherever we are, wear belts around our waist” – these are so that a Muslim recognizes a non-Muslim as such and doesn’t make the mistake of greeting him with As-salaamu aleikum, “Peace be upon you,” which is the Muslim greeting for a fellow Muslim;
  • “Be guides for Muslims and refrain from breaching their privacy in their homes.”
  • The Christians swore: “If we break any of these promises that we set for your benefit against ourselves, then our Dhimmah (promise of protection) is broken and you are allowed to do with us what you are allowed of people of defiance and rebellion.
  • Muhammad declared that the dhimmi cannot walk on the same road as the Muslim.
  • “Do not initiate the Salam [greeting of peace] to the Jews and Christians, and if you meet any of them in a road, force them to its narrowest alley.”

Islam is a divine corporation of murdering, extorting, robbing and plundering, enslaving, and raping and much more such horrible actions.

---

Jake Neuman is the author of “ Islam and Sharia Law are Treason: Jihad is Treason ” and Prophet Muhammad (AKA ALLAH): Monster of History (Free download). His book ISLAM -- EVIL IN THE NAME OF GOD™ was banned in Malaysia.

Comments (162)Add Comment
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written by vbv , March 04, 2012
Very good article extensively researched with citations from muslim books and their sources. Can anyone call this a religion at all ? A religion must be for common good , civilisational, propogating morally values deeply spiritual with freedom to inquire and question and reason ,etc. Islam is lacking these in all respects ,and only enforces blind belief of some shallow tribal barbaric dogmas of the arabs , promoting the arab supremacy , spreading extreme intolerance , bigotry, spreading extreme contempt on any other perspective and asking for the destruction of all other belief/ nonbelief systems to enforce submission to arabs and their diktats cloaked with the veneer of a cooked up "religion" which is nothing but a criminal idealogy.
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@ Vbv & The Bigot Author Jake Neuman
written by Muslim & Proud , March 04, 2012
Very good article extensively researched with citations from muslim books and their sources.


Extensive research?

Let's have a close look shall we.......

Islam believes in the oppression and even summary murder, of non-Muslims, the superiority of Muslims over non-Muslims (kafirs), superiority of Arab Muslims over other Muslims, Muslim men over women, the latter being deemed former’s property, totalitarianism of Sharia Law, ownership of kafir slaves and sex slaves, rape, terrorization and torture of non-believers.


This statement in itself contains so much lies it really is UNBELIEVABLE. The statement should have started by saying Islamic extremists believe.....

1 - The message of verses 9:5 & 22:19-22 are: The pagan kafirs must either convert to Islam, who would keep up prayer, or be murdered.


This is very true IF VERSES 9:5 & 22:19-22 ARE USED IN ISOLATION.

2 - Verse 9:29 is a divine call to mass-murder and extermination of the Jews and Christians


ONLY IF USED IN ISOLATION

With regards to the authors delluded view re 4:89, here is 4:90.....

(4:90) UNLESS it be such of them who seek refuge with a people who are joined with you by a covenant, or those who come to you because their hearts shrink from fighting either against you or against their own people. Had Allah so willed, He would certainly have given them power over you and they would have fought against you. If they leave you alone and do not fight against you and offer you peace,, then Allah does not permit you to harm them.

Here, “corruption in the land” means rejecting Islam and continue practicing other religions. And extermination of such people is commanded in this verse. The apostates of Islam, by rejecting Islam, create corruption in the land; Muslim women, who demand equality with men, rejecting what Allah has ordained, create corruption in the land; Muslim girls in the West, who reject Islamic way of life and adopt the Western culture, create corruption in the land; and so on.

Verse 5:32 in fact gives license to summary murder of innocent people, yet President Obama quoted it in his Cairo speech as a symbol of sublime humanity of Islam. This is a teaching of madness masquerading as a teaching of love.


This fool is making it up as he goes along. He is trying to explain what 'corruption in the land' means and gives his own take on it, which is nowhere near the truth.

6: QURAN 5:33 -- VERSE OF BARBARIC CRUELTY


This verse clearly refers to those who "make war" agaisnt Islam.

Islam is a divine corporation of murdering, extorting, robbing and plundering, enslaving, and raping and much more such horrible actions.


I hope you convinced yourself. I am running out of space otherwise every point can be refuted very easily.
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Pact Of Umar (RA)
written by Muslim & Proud , March 04, 2012
"The Arabs, to whom the Lord has given control over the world, treat us as you know; they are not the enemies of Christians. Indeed, they praise our community, and treat our priests and saints with dignity, and offer aid to churches and monasteries." (Arthur Stanley Tritton, The People Of The Covenant In Islam, p. 158)

""The Arabs could have easily been blinded by their first conquests, and committed the injustices that are usually committed by conquerors. They could have mistreated their defeated opponents or forced them to embrace their religion, which they wished to spread all over the world. But the Arabs avoided that. The early caliphs, who had a political genius that was rare in proponents of new religion, realized that religions and systems are not imposed by force. So they treated the people of Syria, Egypt, Spain, and every country they took over with great kindness, as we have seen. They left their laws, regulations, and beliefs intact and only imposed on them the jizya, which was paltry when compared to what they had been paying in taxes previously, in exchange for maintaining their security. The truth is that nations had never known conquerors more tolerant than the Muslims, or a religion more tolerant than Islam." (Lebon, G, The Civilization Of The Arabs, p. 605)

"At the time of the Umayyad caliphate, the people of the covenant, Christians, Zoroastrians, Jews, and Sabians, all enjoyed degree of tolerance that we do not find even today in Christian countries. They were free to practice the rituals of their religion and their churches and temples were preserved. They enjoyed autonomy in that they were subject to the religious laws of the scholars and judges." (Will Durant, The Story Of Civilization, Volume 13. p. 131-132)

I SAVED THE BEST UNTIL LAST REGARDING THE PACT OF UMAR (RA), HERE IT IS:

"'The caliph Umar took the utmost care to tend to the sanctity of the Christian holy places, and those who became caliph after him followed his footsteps. They did not haras the many denominations of pilgrims who came annually from every corner of the Christian world to visit Jerusalem.' (Lothrop Stoddard, The Islamic World At Present, Volume 1, p. 13-14)"

Enjoy.
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M&P
written by vbv , March 04, 2012
Do you deny that in a muslim country there is no persecution of nonmuslims ? Dyou deny that nonmuslims are called in a derogatory manner 'kaffirs' or infidels and are required to pay jizzya or protection money? Do you deny that in a muslim country there is a ban on building a place of worship by nonmuslims ? Do you deny that nonmuslims in a muslim country do not have equal rights as muslims ? Do you deny that in a muslim country nonmuslims are coerced into converting to islam ? Do you deny that islams asks , as quoted in the quran , that muslims are free to murder any nonmuslim without any recourse to law ? Do you deny that in a muslim country a muslim professing or even so much as respecting the tenets of any other faith is either persecuted/tortured/murdered (it is called wajib qatl) ? Why do muslims hide behind the most barbaric dogma called 'blasphemy law' in order to keep its flock of goats (muslims) in line tightly shackled by the barbaric code called Sharia?.. And there are many more issues in the most barbaric dogma of islam that cannot stand up to the modern secular values and freedom of thought and humanrights. Islam is the most backward cult devised by the arabs to enmslave other peoples to abjectly surrender to the arab chauvinism and barbaic practices. It does not have human values ,civilisational values but raw desert barbarianisms. It has destroyed many civilisations. It is morally and spiritually bankrupt .
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M&Pleasing
written by duh_swami , March 04, 2012
The very sweet and charming M&Pious continues to scapegoat common, widespread, and historic Islamic murder and abuses, as the dastardly work of a few extremists...That lame excuse does not work anymore M&Precious...It has been debunked like Islam has been debunked...There is a huge credibility gap between your claims and the reaolity of what is really going on in the world...I suppose that is because you live in Yorkshire, and are a cement Muslim...Your feet are firmly set in cement it would seem...When was the last time you walked through a grassy field or through a forest? You need to get away from cement for a while sweet man, it is effecting your brain...One other thing sweets...You spread your posts out so chaotically they are too hard to read...Please try and organize your thoughts a little better...Thanks...
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Vbv
written by Muslim & Proud , March 04, 2012
Islam is the most backward cult devised by the arabs to enmslave other peoples to abjectly surrender to the arab chauvinism and barbaic practices. It does not have human values ,civilisational values but raw desert barbarianisms. It has destroyed many civilisations. It is morally and spiritually bankrupt.


So why are so many westerners embracing Islam?
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@M & P
written by Editor, M A Khan , March 04, 2012
6: QURAN 5:33 -- VERSE OF BARBARIC CRUELTY
This verse clearly refers to those who "make war" agaisnt Islam.
How does one make war against Islam?

2 - Verse 9:29 is a divine call to mass-murder and extermination of the Jews and Christians
ONLY IF USED IN ISOLATION
What would it mean in conjunction?
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@ Mr Khan
written by Muslim & Proud , March 04, 2012
It's a pleasure.

It's good to see that you have finally decided to reveal yourself.

Mr Khan said: "How does one make war against Islam?"

Physical or verbal.

Physical: I don't want to insult your intelligence. Hopefully you understand this. It would include persecution of muslims.

Verbal: As per the content of this website. Once again, I don't want to insult your intelligence by explaining.

Mr Khan said (re 9:29): "What would it mean in conjunction?"

(9:29)Fight with those from among the people of the Book, who do not believe in Allah nor in the Last Day; who do not make unlawful that which Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful, and do not adopt the Right way as their way. Fight with them until they pay Jizyah with their own hands and are humbled.

Pay attention to the last sentence. Fight them UNTIL they pay Jizyah. Islamic law is clear on Jizyah. If it is not paid ONLY THEN does a muslim have the right to fight the people of the book.

Before Jizyah is required to be paid, the non-muslims have the choice to either:

1 - Accept Islam
2 - Fight until they can fight no more
3 - Continue to follow their faith whilst paying Jizyah

The author has said that this verse is a verse of "barbaric cruelty". Actually, the verse makes it clear that Jizyah was NOT BEING PAID by the people of the book, hence!

If I do not pay my tax in the UK, I could be punished - worst case could be imprisonment.

The same rule applies in Islam, although the punishment is much more severe.

In both cases, the person who needs to pay the tax MUST PAY THE TAX or face the consequences.

Now here is the best bit. In the modern world, it would not be possible for muslims to take over a Country and apply Jizyah to the people of the book. So it is therefore impossible for muslims to apply this verse in any modern situation. In the unlikely event that IT DID happen, the condition would still apply, I.E. fighting would only be permissible IF JIZYAH WAS NOT PAID.
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M&Pious
written by duh_swami , March 04, 2012
"'The caliph Umar took the utmost care to tend to the sanctity of the Christian holy places, and those who became caliph after him followed his footsteps.

Certainly they did mostly because Christians living under Islamic rule have no choice but to follow the rules set for them...Break any of those rules, deliberately, inadvertently, or by accusation, and the Christians get attacked, usually by a huge mob...Most Islamic countries disclaim the Pact of Umar, but keep enforcing certain provisions of it just the same...The prohibition of a Christian riding with his sword slung accross his back no longer applies, but building new chrches and the prohibition of repairing old ones continues as well as preachng Christianity to Muslims, blaspemy laws etc...Christians in Muslim countries get along marginally by being good little dhimmi's but that does not always save them from the mob...Egypt, Iraq, Nigeria, are just three examples of mob attacks going on today for no good reason, or no reason...


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Muslim & War
written by Gnostic , March 04, 2012
I always asserted that sialm was invented in order to mobilise violent people to fight a war against the east roman and sassanid aka persian empire. Because many arabs were christians at this times and some were still pagans, the arab clans were in need for an ideology to mobilise the arabs and that ilso ignites hate on the non arab people such as pesians and romans.

In the quran its is written again and again that it is the worst sin to associate anybody to Allah. Why? In many relgions the gods may father children or they may appear in earth as avatar. While judaism also disagrees on this, in islam it becomes the very reason to fight a holy war.

Because islam is very simple it is also easy to understand. This helped because most arabs were ( and many still are) illiterates. However, until today no muslim really understands that islam is fundamentally wrong about christianity. Christians are not worhsipping Maria as their goddes nor are they regarding Jesus Christ as different form God.

I would not insist on either opinion because I am thinking agnostic. We cannot really know wether god really exists and how he or she exists. It does not make sense to fight for such things because this is absolutely useless. Perhaps trinity as welll was regarded as an ideology and many christs such as the copts did not accept it.

But why should god become angry about people who have different opinions about him? islam is the only religion I know that was founded as heresy in order to fight other religions. They are even promising paradise and other things for muslims who fight against non-muslims with the most stupid promises I ever heard of!

Only very stupid people can believe in islamic paradise with pillows made of silk (probably with written made in china on it), golden accessoires, eating fruits and having sex with virgins. It really takes a lot of stupidity to believe in such nonsense!

We should view from the other side: What would you promise to an illiterate mob in order to get them killing for you? If you consider the suicide bombers you can see that it still works - but only wth very stupid people who belong to one religion: Islam!
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One of many schemes of Islam,
written by dead or alive , March 04, 2012
Rise the tax so high on the unbelievers so the poor souls can`t pay up.This will give Muslims reason to murder.
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Dead or alive
written by Muslim and proud , March 04, 2012
There is a subtle difference between someone who CAN'T pay tax and someone who WILL NOT.....
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Addendum
written by Muslim and proud , March 04, 2012
First let us understand what Jizyah is. Jizyah is the duty that a non-Muslim has to pay in order to live in the Muslim land. (Ibn Qudamah, Al Mughni, Volume 12, p. 756). Not all non-Muslims are required to pay the Jizyah tax. There are conditions which may exempt non-Muslims from paying the Jizyah tax, which could be summarized as follows:
 
-          Women and children are excused absolutely
-          Handicapped, blind and old men, even if they are rich
-          Needy and mad-men
-          Day laborers, servants or wageworkers
-          A chronically ill-man even if he is rich
-          Religious people who keep themselves free for praying and worshipping, i.e. men of churches, cloisters and oratories
-          If a non-Muslim voluntarily participates in military service for protecting the country.
-          If the Islamic state becomes unable to protect non-Muslims, then they are legally exonerated from paying the tax. (See Ibnul Qayyim, Ahkam Ahlul Dhimma, Volume1, pp.8, 15 and al-Shafi', al-Umm¸ pp. 172-1)
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M&P
written by dead or alive , March 04, 2012
And those who can not pay tax and those who will not pay taxes will both be killed.
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Dead or alive
written by Muslim and proud , March 04, 2012
If YOU say so?

Dont think so my friend
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M&Precious sez'''
written by duh_swami , March 04, 2012
- If the Islamic state becomes unable to protect non-Muslims, then they are legally exonerated from paying the tax.

Protect them from who? What? From ravenous foaming at the mouth Muslim mobs that's who...And are not dhimmi's who pay, supposed to feel subdued when paying it? The tax collectors frequently slapped the dhimmi aroud to make them feel subdued and remind them of their inferiority to their Muslim masters...
Sweet bunch of folks these Muslims...
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M&P
written by dead or alive , March 04, 2012
If the state can not protect the unbelievers,Can unbeliever own firearms?
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@ Mr Khan
written by Muslim and proud , March 04, 2012
Have you gone into hiding again?

Duh needs to stop doing ARF ARF.....lol

Mr Khan - Would you agree with Duh when he said "kuffar dogs ARF ARF" and don't woof woof?
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M&preious
written by duh_swami , March 04, 2012
Making animal sounds won't help you much...Do you howl at a full moon too? M&preious
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M&P
written by dead or alive , March 04, 2012
When wolf fence is taken down around sheep,who will protect sheep?
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Dead or alive
written by Muslim and proud , March 04, 2012
The shepherd will be there to destroy the wolf and also the kuffar dogs who like to ARF ARF.......
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M&Pious so sweet
written by duh_swami , March 04, 2012
My dear friend...If you bark like a dog long enough, you will attract fleas...Of course I'm sure you already know that, so I'm only reminding you...Kuffar dogs don't have fleas because we kuffar have flea powder...America stopped selling flea powder to Muslims when it was discovered that they were eating it...
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M&P
written by dead or alive , March 04, 2012
One shepherd?Against wolf packs?No fence.Would it be fair to arm sheep with firearms?
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Kuffar Dogs
written by Muslim and proud , March 04, 2012
A reminder for the (in Duhs words) kuffar dogs:

"Kuffar dogs don't have fleas because we kuffar have flea powder"

Remember to stock up on the powder.

ARF ARF.......lol
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Dearest M&Precious
written by duh_swami , March 04, 2012
Remember to stock up on the powder.

President Obama provides it for free under Obamacare...Muslims are exempt to prevent them from eating it...
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Dead or alive
written by Muslim and proud , March 04, 2012
One shepherd?Against wolf packs?No fence.Would it be fair to arm sheep with firearms?


Firearms are not always the answer. What is required is faith and patience

Faith to believe and understand the divine law
Patience to implemement it justly

Voila
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M&P
written by dead or alive , March 04, 2012
`Firearms are not always the answer`.What did the fox say to the chicken?
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whose divine law
written by Yibel , March 04, 2012
What do you mean by "divine law? shari'ah - the revival of the ancient Law of Hammurabi. What is Divine?

As Socrates would have said “What do you mean by the word Divine or Justice? Define your terms.” If 2 people have the same definition of Divine then there is no problem, but, if the definition of Divine is different, then we have a problem. And Houston, we have a problem.

It has to do with the Golden Rule being called the “Law”, which is the highest possible level in Judaism and Christianity. In fact the Golden Rule is even called the Law of Christ and the latter is also called the Law of God. The Golden Rule is the Heart of the Judeo-Christian Law. The Golden Rule is the basis of human rights.

Does the Koran have the Golden Rule?

The Koran does have the Golden in 5 passages (chapters 13:22-24/ 23:96/ 28:54/ 41:34/ 42:40) but the Golden Rule is definitely not the ethical heart of the Koran. In other words the Koran states it and then puts in a condition, modifies it by having Allah universally curse the Christians “till the Day of Resurrection“ (chapter 5:14) and then the Jews are universally cursed “till the Day of Resurrection” (chapter 5:64).

Nowhere and I repeat nowhere is the Golden Rule in the Koran called the Law of Allah.

This means that Islam can not automatically accept human rights with no ifs, buts or maybes and the good Muslim man or woman does not obligatorily have to accept human rights as THE definition of GOOD. He can do anti-human rights acts and still believe he is doing good deeds.
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Dead or Alive
written by Muslim and proud , March 04, 2012
"What did the fox say to the chicken?"

Do you want to pay your Jizyah by card, cheeque or cash?
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M&Positive
written by duh_swami , March 04, 2012
What a wonderful and special Muslim you are M&Pleasing...You would rather talk about foxes and henhouses than address serious issues as posted by Yibel above...He asks about divine law and you talk about chicken coops...Where in Quran does Allah talk about chicken coops?
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M&P
written by dead or alive , March 04, 2012
I am not paying jizyah now. i am now unprotected by the state.Should i buy a gun?There is no one to protect me.
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Dead or alive
written by Muslim and proud , March 04, 2012
What 'Islamic' state are you living in and when was it taken over by Muslims?

Please confirm.
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M&P
written by dead or alive , March 04, 2012
Should i dial 911 ?
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Dead Or Alive
written by Muslim & Proud , March 04, 2012
Did you manage to get through to 911?
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M&P
written by dead or alive , March 04, 2012
Yes I did get hold of 911.The police sent 10 Muslim men to my door and they demand that i pay them`protection`money or else.But when state protect me again.I will owe back taxes to state.Should i pack-up and try to get across the border?
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I like to share my story with a Pakistani Muslim friend who is no longer a Muslimah
written by fineliving56 , March 04, 2012
I know a story like that usually comes as Music to ears of Ex and non Muslims ... I which I have more like them to report ...

I have this Pakistani friend who is poor and in need of help ... Her husband, did not care to divorce her when he was tried of her and did not care to do the same .. he just abandoned her and gone off with other women.... she rents a room in a house of an older lady.

She excepted that as * men will be men* and she babysat on the side to support her self. She opened her heart to me about her loneliness and disappointment so I kept inviting her to my house, in all family dinners and gatherings she excepted and kept saying to me, Allah will reword me in heaven with 10 folds, I nodded my head with without saying anything, thinking, if only knew what Allah had in store for her as a Muslimah in Jannah ... it is not going to be much difference, she will be waiting for her turn when her husband still have not finished with his premonthral virgins girls to molest, and I wanted to tell her,"" it is because of that, She should Know that No God, is worth praying to, NO GOD would ever say such disgusting thing and there for, there is NO Allah.

Her Sick mother was dying and was suffering in pain for long time and she was the only one left for my friend out of her family that lives here ... so when she died... My friend went through a lot of pain and soul searching and Questioning of her idea of Allah after she witnessed the pain her mother went through.

I got the opportunity to talk about Islam,Allah and Muhammad, when she asked me Of meaning of words that she repeats without ever understanding the meanings ... like the word Al daaleen and Wasswas and Allah Salli allaa al Nabi .. I told her and my heart was racing, because I wanted to seize the moment and I started asking her Questions about Quran and Muhammad.

It turned out she doe not know mush aside what the Arabs and sheiks told her which lies and more lies . She repeated word she does not know. SO I brought the Quran and English translation and I showed her and asked her to read while showing the matching words in Arabic. We spent three hours and when we got to 4/34 her reaction was ...[ "" Nooo ... No ... it cant be ... You mean Allah said it OK for My husband to beat me If I do not OBEY"" HURT WAS ON HER FACE ... I TOLD HER ABOUT MY STORY WITH Islamic WIFE BEATING alone with all the Muslim women who suffers because of it and I have known all my life and I showed her Hadeeths acts done by Muhammad the MASS KILLER .............SHE WAS ABOUT TO PUKE ...

continue next
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Dead or alive
written by Muslim and proud , March 04, 2012
Should i pack-up and try to get across the border?


Nah

Stay put - the FBI should be there shortly. The Muslim men were under surveillance and will get busted for terrorism as well as applying Jizyah - they will be sent to Guan Bay, indefinitely.
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...
written by duh_swami , March 04, 2012
The Muslim men were under surveillance and will get busted for terrorism

All 5000 of them? The cowards hardly ever attack anyone alone, they much prefer the safety of a mob...There a few instances when a jihadi operated alone, but because Muslims are essentially cowards the mobs can be anywhere in size from a small mob of five or six, or a large mob of thousands...Allah loves a mob...The more blood they spill the better he likes it...

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Fineliving56
written by Muslim and proud , March 04, 2012
Some people will go to any length...

Did you bother to explain her rights to her?

You 'seized' the moment to make sure she ends up cursed like you.
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M&Pretentious
written by duh_swami , March 04, 2012
You 'seized' the moment to make sure she ends up cursed like you.

Now, now sweet man, don't go into a tizzy and start commenting on people you don't know and have never seen...are you trying to pretend you are Allah? Are you pretending to know what only Allah can know? You better run quick to the mosque and do at least 100 extra prayers to make up for your apostasy and shirk...You may be sweet, but you are not Allah...
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@ Muslim & Proud
written by milad meah , March 04, 2012
said: This verse clearly refers to those who "make war" agaisnt Islam.
THE FACT IS Pagans or people of the book NEVER made war with the Muslims or Muhammad says Quran and Hadiths.
WITHOUT LIES, MUSLIMS ARE HELPLESS.
Q 22:40 says Muhammad & Muslims were EVICTED? (NO!), ROBBED or killed? (NO!).
Muhammad & Muslims were never harmed (Bukhari 4:56:733)
Muslims were never persecuted read Quran with open mind not just eyes [It is Muhammad who told Muslims to leave their homes in Mecca because they were poor, Muhammad promised them A GOOD PLACE IN THIS WORLD and the NEXT. says Quran 16:41]
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The rest of My friend's story in leaving Islam
written by fineliving56 , March 04, 2012
We cried together ... I was not sure what we are crying about ...Is it about our dead mothers, her ignorance of Quran ..My anger that never goes away only hides and lurks. ...or just shared sorrow of all the innocents lost and died to Islam but should not have to. She came many times often after that, and we kept doing the same thing ... until she told me one day ...she is going to stop going to the Mosque and does not care what the Muslims going to think of her.... Islam is wrong in so many ways and SHE IS OUT OF IT. My heart sang and I hugged her and told her to be careful to whom she tells ... and that I am so glad she found out about Islam and it's fake prophet .... Our friendship got stronger and I am so glad I have someone to talk to, about the lie of Islam without the threats and degradation, that usually happened when Islam and Muslims are concerned. ................................Living outside of Islam ... is fineliving .............:-D
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The rest of the story
written by fineliving56 , March 04, 2012
Went to Allah fpr Inspection ... I do not think* IT* like it one bit

Lets see what Allah going to do me .... now I Made an ex Muslimah out of a friend women ...

BTW ... I showed my friend all the restrictions that Quran throws at women ... like you throw bone at a dog to fool him ...

SHE SAID ... IT UNEXCEPTIONABLE IN ANY WAY ...

beating women is not allowed in any CIRCUMSTANCES ... IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN FORBIDDEN BY ALLAH IF HE WAS ANY PASSABLE ALLAH

Islam's Allah is an F grade Allah ... IT would have solved that problem by It self ... stupid Allah!!
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The rest of the fairytale
written by Muslim & Proud , March 04, 2012
Fineliving56,

"beating women is not allowed in any CIRCUMSTANCES"

That is correct in Islam. Well done.
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Milad
written by Muslim & Proud , March 04, 2012
Sahih Bukhari 4:56:733

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "Doesn't it astonish you how Allah protects me from the Quraish's abusing and cursing? They abuse Mudhammam and curse Mudhammam while I am Muhammad (and not Mudhammam)"

This makes no difference to the INTENTION of the Quraish Mr Meah - it does not mention anywhere regarding protection from attempts to physically harm.

I think you have made a blunder.

Muslims were never persecuted read Quran with open mind not just eyes


(22:40) These are the people who have been expelled unjustly from their homes only for the reason that they said, "Our Lord is Allah." Had Allah not repelled one people by means of another people, monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques, wherein the name of Allah is often mentioned, would have been demolished.

To be expelled from your home UNJUSTLY is mistreatment my friend.

I think you are struggling to read with your eyes........
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M&Pearly boy
written by duh_swami , March 04, 2012
"beating women is not allowed in any CIRCUMSTANCES"

That is correct in Islam. Well done.

Why sweet person do you find it necessary to lie and continually make a fool of yourself? It pains me to see such a sweet man fall into perdition...Is it that you can't get a date? No woman will have anything to do with you? You don't hate your mother do you? So many women haters do...But take my advice, if you shower regularly, brush your teeth and groom yourself, your chances of romance will improve...
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M&P
written by dead or alive , March 04, 2012
After FBI arrest the 10 Muslim men.How will i stop my jealous Muslim neighbors who hate me now because i do not pay tax and i am not suppose to better than Muslims?
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M and P
written by rzq , March 04, 2012
Salam bro!
You know the khan goes into hiding when his points get refuted!
Did he get back to you about the amazing scholarship of the hadith?
No he vanished!
Good solid points made!
They gotta revert to their wasting time and changing the subject tactics.
It's not really that surprising to see!
Pagans go no minerals!
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rzq
written by dead or alive , March 04, 2012
when your bros borrow your prayer rug,do you tell them which end of rug to place nose?
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@ M & P
written by Editor, M A Khan , March 04, 2012
Pay attention to the last sentence. Fight them UNTIL they pay Jizyah. Islamic law is clear on Jizyah. If it is not paid ONLY THEN does a muslim have the right to fight the people of the book.
M & P, it is you who needs to pay attention. In the case people of the book refuse to accept invitation to Islam, fighting should be initiated to occupy their lands and force them to jizya. That's what this verse means.

Before Jizyah is required to be paid, the non-muslims have the choice to either:
1 - Accept Islam
2 - Fight until they can fight no more
3 - Continue to follow their faith whilst paying Jizyah
Let us give Muslims, living in Kuffar countries like India and the UK, the same condition -- that is, to convert to Hinduism/Christianity or pay jizya in willing humiliation -- and see how sweet Muslims find it.
The author has said that this verse is a verse of "barbaric cruelty". Actually, the verse makes it clear that Jizyah was NOT BEING PAID by the people of the book, hence!
If I do not pay my tax in the UK, I could be punished - worst case could be imprisonment.
Pay attention to the fact that Jizya is a special subjugation/humiliation tax imposed upon kuffars in ideal Islamic state, which should be paid in "willing humiliation". Apart from Jizya, kuffars have to pay kharaj, business taxes etc. Muslim only have to pay "zakaat" -- only 2.5% of wealth growth and that too voluntarily. Zakaat was used for religious purposes only, like building mosques etc. Rest of the burden of the state were borne out of the jizya, kharaj etc. paid by the kuffars as well as ghanimah (spoils/loot) obtained by plundering them.
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To fineliving 56
written by Archpagan , March 04, 2012
Well done, sister. It was Arabs who concocted Islam, the cult of terrorism. Now, it's up to Arabs like you to take upon themselves the task of dismantling the same.
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M&P
written by vbv , March 05, 2012
How many westerners are converting to islam ? Very few on the fringes . They are those who have been conned by "dawa" conmen who are trained to lie blatantly to convert by deceit and lies. Can these converted westerners to islam revert back or apostate freely when they find islam is a murderous and a deceiving criminal cult ? No they cannot ,because they will be threatened thereafter. Like a story told by a mullah on the YouTube : He says that a jew was asked to convert to islam by Muhamad. The jew ,who was fond of wine , said that if he converted he would not be able to take wine. Muhamad said that it was not so at all. Believing him, the jew converted to islam. Then he went for his wine,he was prevented by muslims saying that he would be punished if he did so. The jew protested saying that he was promised that he would be allowed to take wine after converting to islam. Muhamad said ,nothing doing, if he did so he would be accordingly punished with 200 lashes , and should he continue to violate , he can be stoned to death. That is how islam spread , through brutal wars, deceptions, coercion and the like.
And yet people like Zakir Naik claim it is a peaceful religion and has solutions to all the problems of humanity in his propoganda TV channel "Peace TV". While the fact actually is that muslims are problem creators, they cannot solve their own problems in any manner, they are absolutely zombified dingbats. Muslims countries are ruled by the diktats of mullahs, autocrats, despots, mad monarchs who have minds that live in an era before even the 15th century AD , fuedal lords , much distrust and fighting amongst themselves. It is a disaster and a total failure that survives on fears, superstitions and violent retributions. You can see it for yourself in countries like Saudi Arabia, Itan,Iraq,Syria,Egypt,Sudan,Somalia, Libya, Palestine, Jordan, Afghanistan,Pakistan ,etc. It is all there - these countries totally corrupt, despotic, with islamic extremism bolstering these worthy countries.
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HOW CAN I SUBMIT AN ARTICLE HERE?
written by Ramkrishna , March 05, 2012
Dear brothers,
Can someone please tell me how can I submit an article here?
0
@Ramkrishna
written by Editor, M A Khan , March 05, 2012
You may use our "contact us" form, or send it to admin@ islam-watch.org
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@ Mr Khan
written by Muslim and proud , March 05, 2012
Mr Khan,

Many thanks for your responses.

Before I respond, I would like to point out that on the "About Us" link (on your home page) this is what it says: Having thoroughly understood—through our meticulous investigation of Islam, lasting years to decades"

You said:

fighting should be initiated to occupy their lands and force them to jizya. That's what this verse means.


Please provide the exegesis of the verse with reference to your source, which proves that fighting ha to be initiated in order to occupy lands and force the payment of Jizyah.

You said:

Let us give Muslims, living in Kuffar countries like India and the UK, the same condition -- that is, to convert to Hinduism/Christianity or pay jizya in willing humiliation -- and see how sweet Muslims find it.


I already told you that I pay my tax in the UK. My Muslim brothers living in India will also be required to pay Tax.

You said:

Muslim only have to pay "zakaat" -- only 2.5% of wealth growth and that too voluntarily.


Voluntarily???

Did all your research not make it clear that Zakaat is "obligatory". This is very embarrassing for you Mr Khan.

You said:

Zakaat was used for religious purposes only, like building mosques etc.


You need to do your research again Mr Khan. Zakaat MUST be paid to the por and needy.

Very embarrassing for you indeed.




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@M&P
written by pipo , March 05, 2012
"At the time of the Ummayad caliphate, the people of the covenant Christians, Zoroastrians, Jews, Sabians, all enjoyed a degree of tolerence that we do not find even today in Christian countries".... let alone in Muslim countries.

Why is that?... Do you have to pay a special Muslim tax in good old England?
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@M&P
written by pipo , March 05, 2012
So apparently the caliph Umar was not a massmurdering psychopath... How does that work as an excuse for Muhammad and Islam???????

Where is the logic in your comments?
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M&Perfect
written by duh_swami , March 05, 2012
You need to do your research again Mr Khan. Zakaat MUST be paid to the por and needy.
Exactly how much zakat is collected, and exactly how much of that go's to the poor and needy, and how does the distribution work?...Some of those Imams and Ayatollahs have some pretty fine robes, drive fancy cars, and live in fancy houses...and they build large fancy mosques...How much of that is paid by zakat, or is it all funded by jizya?
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@ M & P
written by Editor, M A Khan , March 05, 2012
It's ridiculous to suggest that Allah will reveal this verse (9:29) to fight non-Muslim subject of an Islamic state. We have lots of reference of Muhammad sending letters to Christian kings around Arabia, including emperor Heraclius of Byzantium -- demanding that they kings embrace Islam. If they didn't, Muhammad waged Jihad expeditions against them.

Traditionally, payment of Zakaat has been voluntary; even today it is so. Go to Pakistan or Bangladesh, and you will see that government never bothers about eligible citizens paying the zakaat or not. Even in Muhammad's time, it was not obligatory. So, we see Muhammad cursing those Muslims, who were not paying the Zakaat.
SAHIH AL BUKHARI 2:439, 485: Muhammad said, "Whoever had camels or cows or sheep and didn’t pay their Zakat, will be given punishment by Allah, with the same animals, on the Day of Resurrection."
This hadith clearly shows that defaulters of zakaat payment were to be punished by Allah; Islamic state didn't force them to pay or punish the defaulters.

Zakat fund was used for religious purposes: charity, building mosques, even voluntary jihadis, who participated in jihadis war of the Muslim states, were paid from the zakaat fund -- opposed to regular soldiers, who were paid from the state treasury. These are historical facts.
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duh_swami
written by dead or alive , March 05, 2012
I think m&p who double talks,is really saying that Zakaat helps only those of Muslim faith.Why would a Muslim help an unbeliever? How about that two face list of the blind,women and children not paying tax as unbelievers?Bet they do not get checks in the mail.
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Dead
written by duh_swami , March 05, 2012
Yes, dead, it's true...Why should Muslims help out anyone who Allah describes as 'the worst of creatures' Q98:6...Kuffar are right under dog urine on the list of najis, or filth...Muslims don't want to support that...Kuffar deserve punishment, not cash payments...
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Dead
written by duh_swami , March 05, 2012
If Muslims are willing to help out needy kuffar, I'm going to the nearest mosque and ask for a $10,000 loan...We will see how serious they are about this 'help'...
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The A-Z of why I am Christian not a muslim
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 05, 2012
A.-Abraham Authority, and covenant linking to the new covenant in Christ is very appealing and clear. Gen,17:20-22 But the Arab connection through Ishmael was a forgery because it lack Bible confirmation nor any historical evidence.
-Abraham’s connection as the one who built the kaaba- the idol house of idolatry is the only spiritual lies that hold the cult of Islam as a religion. Abraham was called out of Idolatry and not into idolatry and lived and died in Palestine, the present Israel and not in the Valley of Mecca in Arabia 1000 km remote. The Bible and History have proved that this was a lie just to legitimize Islam as a religion. This is an example of blind faith.
- Apostate of Islam are killed proving its cultism and not a religion

B.-Blood atonement was Gods revelation which predate Christianity and Islam and foreshadowed the finished work of atonement by Christ in the New Testament But Islam denies it in ignorant. Lev 17:11, Heb 9:22
-Blackstone in the corner of Kaaba was worshipped in Arabia as an Idol before Islam and is still worshipped and venerated today as religious rituals that will open the gate of paradise for the worshipper. This is forbidden in the Bible.

C.-Christ the messiah, the son of God, the only savior was the central message in both in the old and new testament but denied in Islam. Gen 3:15 Isa,7:14,9:6,53:1-12,Jn 3: 1Jn 2:22
-Characters of Mohammed betrayed him as a messenger of God but the character of Christ confirmed him as the savior of the world.
- Child abuse was exemplified by the prophet of Islam in the matter of Aisha who was abused by Mohammed at the age of 9 and called it marriage with 53 year old man. This became a sunnah (an example to follow) This proves that Islam is an evil cult.

D.-Divine relation, is accompanied with signs and wonders as demonstrated by the Bible prophets but this is lacking in Islam no proofs that its message was divine
-Demons are made disciples of Mohammed through the preaching of Quran. whereas Demons are cast out of people when the Gospel of Christ is preached.

E.-Experience of Salvation, Sanctification and Holy Ghost Baptism was the basic personal experience or relationship with God and a demand for being a Christian or a child of God. But in Islam it is external show of piety by watching hands legs, ass up facing Blackstone towards Kaaba, and circumbulation of it ,with pagan religious fasting in the month of Ramadan, the pagan tax system of Zakat belief in one imaginary Allah with Mohammed as his partner or puppet gangster

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A-Z
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 05, 2012
F.-Freedom of faith, worship and choice which is central to Bible base belief system is lacking in Islam, there is no freedom to choose whom to serve. Islam started without given choice to prospecting converts. The only choice is Islam or death or remains a slave and if you wanted to leave Islam you face death sentence. This looks to me as cult. Cult people don’t leave their cult member without a threat of their lives.
-Fruits of Islam all over the world are bad indicating a bad source of inspiration which cannot be the God of the Bible, who said by their fruits you shall know them.

G.- Goodness, godliness, righteousness, honesty, faithfulness are cherished virtues in Christianity but in Islam it is the outward religious rituals that are cherished and respected. You can be a murderer or terrorist, rapist, polygamist, adulterers as long as you keep to your ritual religious duties you are ok
-Gabriel, the angel of revelation of Quran was an ignorant angel who did not know the Mary of Jesus and the Marian of Aaron in the Old Testament, and a lying angel about the death and resurrection of Christ. That Gabriel could not have been the Gabriel of the New Testament.

H.-Heaven is a holy place prepared for holy people no sinner will go there according to the Bible but the Koran depiction of heaven looks like a brothel, gotten ready for the sensual, the polygamist and rapist,
I.-Islam is polytheism rapped in the veil of monotheisms still with pagan rituals untouched The Bible monotheism appears more credible.

J.-Jesus confirmed the Tora, The Psalms and the prophets as the authentic word of God. But Mohammed confirm none, and claim its corruption because it contradict Koran false prophesy.

K.-Knowledge of Old Testament scriptures strengthened faith in Christ as the savior of the world but knowledge in the Bible revelation weakened faith in Mohammed as a prophet
-Ka’aba a pagan house of Idols was sanctified as house of God and worshipped daily by Mohammed which is idolatry and forbidden by Yahweh the God of the Bible.

L.-Law of God is honoured and kept by the Bible prophets but Mohammed broke all the law of God and support the lawlessness with satanic verses he called the Quran

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WHY am I chriastin and not a muslim? (M-S)
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 05, 2012
M.- Man is elevated above the woman and marriage is made easy for man and given a higher earthly and heavenly inheritance than the woman. Islam is a man made religion. While the man enjoy 72 virgins and 4 earthly women in heaven the woman has to share her man with 72 others. The Bible contradict this delusion. There is no marriage in heaven.
-Mohammed could not finish his project of giving Arab a scripture before he died after 23 years of ministry, it was still recitals but Jesus, within 3 years of ministry finished his mission and declared it is finished.

N.-No divine power given to work miracles in order to confirm their divine mission. In Islam there is no proof that the message and the messenger are from God. No miracle no wonders no prophesy that came true but the Bible has overwhelming evidences that the message is divine.2Tim3:15-16
- No religious tolerant in Islam. The cult does not allow you to leave it or you die and quench human intellect. Christianity gives liberty to choose. it allow democracy and secularism and human intellectual development.

O.-Obedient to Allah and Mohammed in the Koran is the creed. In the Bible obedience to God only and His word is the ultimate demand.

P.-Purity of life is attainable through faith in the atoning blood of Christ and obedience to God commandment or word. In the Koran purity of life is an external show of aimless religious ritual of washings hands legs and repetitive prayers that are hardly answered.

Q.-Quran is the testimony of one man Mohammed while the Bible is the testimony of more than 40 people. One against 40.

R.-Right Relationship with God through Christ and his righteousness is the Bible requirement for heaven; But in the Koran it is religion and rituals that are condemned in the Bible that determines heaven.

S.-Salvation is free and assured through Christ in the Bible but in the Koran is not free and no assurance through works either.
Self-servicing verses of the Quran indicate a personal agenda of Mohammed rather than a message from the divine.
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Why Am I Christian and not A muslim? ( T-Z)
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 05, 2012
T.-Terror and threat with hell fire without mercy for the unbelievers seems to be the main message of the Koran but in the Bible it is love of God and his mercy that is made manifest through the gospel of Jesus Christ Jn 3:16

U.-Unbeliever have no liberty to live with the Muslim and enjoy the same facilities except they are converted but all people are the same under the gospel environment no discrimination between believers and unbelievers.

V.-Victim and victors of Islam (those captured by force and those who believe in Islam) have no assurance of salvation But in Christ there is assurance of salvation and eternal life.
-Violence and hatred to unbelievers are made a virtue in Islam whereas it is love that is emphasized in Christianity even to ones enemies.

W.- Women position is very inferior to that of man and women are oppressed beyond measure in Islam but in Christ women are given equal opportunity with men except were positional responsibility count.

X.-Xeroxing the life of Mohammed makes one a terrorist, a polygamist, a murderer or an assassin but Xeroxing the life of Chirist one becomes holy righteous, merciful, compassionate and loving fellows.

Y.-Yielding to Islam teaching leads to economic poverty, spiritual poverty and eternal uncertainty. But yielding to Christ teaching brings happiness economic prosperity, and eternal certainty.

Z. Zainab marriage to Mohammed and the Qoranic revelation approving it is a clear evidence that the Quran is not the word of God.The Zag-ging of the Bible stories and the threat of hell for personal gain was Mohammed method to achieving power, wealth and control of women.

My friend can you see why I could not have been a Muslim? Christ message of love, forgiveness and mercy is timeless and sufficient to take anyone to heaven. Quran message of hatred and violence and oppression cannot be applied in the modern and civilized world and not even the 7 century Arabia without the force of the sword.

Therefore I invite you to new life in Christ.

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@ Mr Khan
written by Muslim and proud , March 05, 2012
We have lots of reference of Muhammad sending letters to Christian kings around Arabia, including emperor Heraclius of Byzantium -- demanding that they kings embrace Islam.


Please provide just 3 references, where it is categorically 'demanded' that they "embrace Islam or face the consequences of war". Please also provide the exegesis of the verse, with sources.

Traditionally, payment of Zakaat has been voluntary;


Mr Khan, we are not talking about tradition - we are talking about Islam (religion). Here is why the Noble Qur'an says:

(9:60) As a matter of fact, Zakat collections are only for the needy and the indigent, and for those who are employed to collect them and for those whose hearts are to be won over and for the ransoming of slaves and for helping the debtors and for the way of Allah and for the hospitality of the wayfarers. This is an obligatory duty from Allah: and Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

Zakat fund was used for religious purposes: charity, building mosques, even voluntary jihadis, who participated in jihadis war of the Muslim states, were paid from the zakaat fund -- opposed to regular soldiers, who were paid from the state treasury. These are historical facts.


Please refer to 9:60 above for clarity. The needy and indigent are always priority.

Ps. This is what you originally said: "Zakaat was used for religious purposes only, like building mosques etc."

Over to you
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M&Proficient
written by duh_swami , March 05, 2012
Please provide just 3 references,

Why three when one makes the case? How many times does a robber have to rob before we identify him as a robber...Choose one...

1. 10 robberies
2. 100 robberies
3. 1 robbery
4. 30 robberies
5. 5 robberies

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M and P
written by rzq , March 05, 2012
Check out the following article. It's well worth a read!!!

http://www.loonwatch.com/2012/03/when-they-almost-killed-muhammad-the-persecution-of-islams-earliest-followers/comment-page-1/#comment-149379
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Rzq
written by Muslim and proud , March 05, 2012
Nice one bruv
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RZQ
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 05, 2012
You agreed among yourselves that the aggressive aspect in the later dayswas a good one, only that the Spencer should have emphasised the early days of passive preaching when he has no political or religious power. what a religion? You should just call Islam a military campaign under the guise of religion.

To be expressing pleasantries because such lame execuses is indeed funy.
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Rzq
written by Muslim and proud , March 05, 2012
Nice article bro. Interesting to read that:

"In Robert Spencer’s biography of the Islamic prophet, the persecution of Muslims in Mecca is completely passed over.  Muhammad is wrongfully portrayed as the aggressor and the initiator of violence.  Context is completely lost–in fact, it is purposefully distorted.  Without understanding the background of the conflict (i.e. Muslims being persecuted in Mecca for almost a decade and a half), the reader will view Muhammad’s actions in Medina as nothing short of unprovoked aggression."

Purposefully distorted by Spencer!
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Pastor
written by rzq , March 05, 2012
Are you going to get back to me about those irrefutable 10 points that got refuted?
The book review is just the start of the journey! Patience old boy!
So far it just highlights the non scholarly bafoonery of bobby spencer! It gets better trust me!
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Pastor
written by rzq , March 05, 2012
Why don't you correct them pastor!
Scared you might be turned into a pastie in 2 mins????
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...
written by duh_swami , March 05, 2012
loonwatch..........HAHAAHAHAHAHHA...It's only 4 loons...
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rzq,,,sweates little boy...
written by duh_swami , March 05, 2012
So far it just highlights the non scholarly bafoonery of bobby spencer!

I dare say sweet boy that bobby Spencer is far more scholarly about Islam than you are...You are just eating sour grapes...You could never beat bobby in a real debate...None of your brothers dare debate him, and the few that have, lost...
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Salaam Rzq
written by Muslim and proud , March 05, 2012
http://theliesaboutmuhammad.com/?p=536

Imam Zayed Demolishes Robert Spencer in their Debate About Women’s Rights in Islam

Rzq - some of these kuffar dogs are just keen to ARF ARF - lol

They are reluctant to get their head out of the sand....
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Addendum
written by Muslim and proud , March 05, 2012
Here is the video bro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70ugQV0OecQ

ENJOY
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M&Present
written by duh_swami , March 05, 2012
Imam Zayed Demolishes Robert Spencer in their Debate About Women’s Rights in Islam

That's what you say...Did bobby slink away in shame? You will have to prove that one sweets...Not just say it......I told you before sweets, I don't go to any web sites posted by Muslims of sympathizers...I want to hear your sweet voice with explanations, not some web site...Any web site you post will be biased...Why don't you explain to me just how and when in the debate bobby got 'demolished...if you can't do that, you're blowing smoke...again...
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Look out Islam!
written by dead or alive , March 05, 2012
All the scarecrows your Allah invented are coming to get you!
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@ Mooslim and Proud
written by Proud Infidel , March 05, 2012
You're attempts to defend Islam are piss-poor at best. Actually, quite laughable. Too bad you're wasting your time and effort.
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premise is off
written by Malem , March 05, 2012
Murder is not a sacrament of Islam, in fact if you looked at that statement it is laughable as there are no sacraments in Islam that is a Catholic topic, possible some other Christian groups.
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Cursed Infidel
written by Muslim and proud , March 06, 2012
Let's just wait and see if Mr Khan can come back with just 3 references. Remember he claims to have 'lots' of them so it should not be a problem for him.

Mr Khan was under the illusion that Zakaat was voluntary - lol - This was despite the claim that the founders of this site (Inc Khan) have "thoroughly understood—through our meticulous investigation of Islam, lasting years to decades" - Now THAT's what I call p*ss poor cursed Infidel.

You can continue to ARF ARF - it won't make a blind bit
Of difference ;-)
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Malem/RZQ
written by Clement-Islam-Watch Pastor , March 06, 2012
Malem and RZQ I am waiting for your proof of the Quran before I start the rebuttals. Already RZQ is bursting that has refuted all my proofs yet he had said nothing on why he believes the Quran is divine.

I will be surprised if you guys have any proofs because your champion Mohammed had none to convince his Arab folk during his hallucination except to say he was given the gift of eloquent speech and recitation. This will pass any poet or orator for a prophet. Mohammed was reported to have said “eloquent speech is as effective as magic.” Perhaps that is what is being used on billion of souls to believe a bunch of lies as a religious dogma.

I cannot respond to RZQ so call rebuttals until he present his proofs. How do rebut someone’s presentation when have presented nothing. At best you link your rebuttals to your facts not the way you did.

Malem who posed the challenge is now quiet about it. I assummed he had no facts to present just like Mohammed his mentor.
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Mr Pastor
written by Muslim and proud , March 06, 2012
Please confirm from your scriptures, when and where your lord saviour challenged other faiths and asked them for proof?
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Malman, the swell
written by duh_swami , March 06, 2012
Murder is not a sacrament of Islam,

Of course not...What the rest of the world calls murder, Islam calls a 'holy act'...Islam being the wanna be gov that it is, falls into the same trap the rest of them do...Governments never murder anyone, but they do kill a lot of people...
The pious self righteous acting in the name of God, have killed a lot of people, and it has not all been Muslim, but a whole lot of it has...The entire problem is that religious supremacist bigots frequently lose their minds and get violent in behalf of their god and their belief system...The more bigots the greater the problem...Islam has over a billion of these bigots and a large percentage have lost their minds...The others are to busy scavenging for food...

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Duh not correct, again
written by Malem , March 06, 2012
Murder is not allowable in Islam, if you read the Holy Quran in its entirety you will see many times that it is prohibited. Now the fact that there are people in the world who kill innocent people, and by the way they come from all walks of society and religion, does not mean the religious group or country or race they are affiliated with is responsible. It is like blaming the dead sheep on the arrow to which it was shot by and not the hunter whom launched it or worse the race to which the hunter belongs.
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@ Mr Khan
written by Muslim and proud , March 06, 2012
Did you manage to find the 3 references Mr Khan?

Considering you have "lots" of them, it should not take so long to share them?

Maybe you were just being a complete a******e and you don't actually have any reference?

I'm waiting in any case.

Good luck.

Ps. On a positive note, at least you now know that Zakaat is obligatory and not voluntary ;-)
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Malem
written by Clement-Islam-Watch Pastor , March 06, 2012
" Now the fact that there are people in the world who kill innocent people, and by the way they come from all walks of society and religion, does not mean the religious group or country or race they are affiliated with is responsible"

Good logic but not whenever we are looking for murderers of innocent people you find them in the same group of People. A wise person will first of all investigate to find out what makes criminal to always come from the same group of people. The first thing to do is to look at their constitution and see what guides their way of life to be able to know their source of inspiration.

And this we did in the case of Islam and we discovered that the hate creed contain in their constitution the Quran is capable of making a good person go violent and become a terrorists. That is why we know that the problem is not with the terrorist but the book or books which inspired them. That is why we know that the Quran is an evil book that is capable of destroying a person and a nation. You get rid of the Quran you get rid of terrorism.

But then some people like Malem, M&P, RZQ, then lie etc will not allow that to happen because they all claim that the is good for guidance them as well as for the terrorist, the assassins, the murderer, the polygamist, pedophiles, the mullahs and the rapist. May God save us from them.
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Mr Pastor
written by Muslim and proud , March 06, 2012
A wise person will first of all investigate to find out what makes criminal to always come from the same group of people. The first thing to do is to look at their constitution and see what guides their way of life to be able to know their source of inspiration.


This is so foolish Pastor - lol

On average, 3 murders take place everyday in the UK. So what constitution is behind these?

You might also like to confirm where in your scriptures this guidance is provided (about constitution and finding the source of inspiration)?

Lol
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...
written by duh_swami , March 06, 2012
Now the fact that there are people in the world who kill innocent people, and by the way they come from all walks of society and religion, does not mean the religious group or country or race they are...

Some more tu quequo and obfuscations from then persistently sweet Doctor...
You really find it difficult to blame Islam for anything don't you Sweets?
Islam/Muslims are never guilty of anything, even when they are...Your posts are nothing but blame ducking excuses, common with Muslims...At any rate why should I take anyone seriously who believes in fairy tales...
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M&Pearly boy
written by duh_swami , March 06, 2012
On average, 3 murders take place everyday in the UK. So what constitution is behind these?

The Muslim Constitution, of course...You have a copy of it called Quran, and a stack of legal papers called hadith...This is the Constitution that calls for murder or enslavement of kuffar, all of them eventually...If you don't know this, you don't know Islam, if you do know it, you are fibbing about it...You wouldn't fib would you sweet boy?
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Kuffar Dog
written by Muslim and proud , March 06, 2012
One minute he said: ".At any rate why should I take anyone seriously who believes in fairy tales"

Then he said: "The Muslim Constitution, of course...You have a copy of it called Quran, and a stack of legal papers called hadith"

What a foolish kuffar dog - ARF ARF
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M&Pious
written by duh_swami , March 06, 2012
I thought you didn't like the word 'kuffar'...are you changing your mind? Are you confused? Your not unhappy are you? Did your boy friend leave you? Maybe you should confide in your Imam about your shaky mental condition...He probably knows some Quran verses he could recite that might heal you up...
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Admission
written by Muslim and proud , March 06, 2012
Duh admitted that kuffar dogs like to ARF ARF as opposed to woof woof - and he thinks there is something wrong with me

That's what you call one seriously srewed up dog.....ARF ARF - lol
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Duh
written by Malem , March 06, 2012
You are so good are attempting to put words in others mouths, quite amusing. I never state that a Muslim(s) have never done anything wrong. Men sometimes do evil deeds, it is a fact of life. They come from all walks of society, race and religion.

Clement You state "we discovered that the hate creed contain in their constitution the Quran is capable of making a good person go violent and become a terrorists." How does that work exactly? You seemed like a logical fellow until that statement. So does that mean when someone reads anything hateful, the turn into a violent person? Is that how it happens? Sounds a bit far fetched to me. If you believe that ridding yourself of the Holy Quran is the cure for this violent world you are sadly mistaken. Last time I checked Hitller didnt follow the Quran, Mao didnt, Pol Pot didnt, the Kuomintang didnt follow it, Otto Rasch Nope didnt follow it, Stalin...mmm not either, Roman Emperor Theodosius responsible for one of the worst massacres of all time no Quran either...should I go one. Fact is it is not the Holy Quran, but very nice try. My suggestion would be to add some history books to your reading list in addition to your Bible.
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Clement
written by Malem , March 06, 2012
Your claim that getting rid of the Quran and you end the world of violence is beyond silly. Read your history, the worse massacres of the world were not committed by Muslims.
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Malman the good Doctor
written by duh_swami , March 06, 2012
Read your history, the worse massacres of the world were not committed by Muslims.

There's that tu quequo again...does that mean Islam is not responsible for the massacres Muslims do commit? The game that you're massacres were worse than my massacres, is about worn out...You do not seem to be able to post without using obfuscation, tu quequo or both... that's continual intellectual dishonesty...And you believe in fairy tales...
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Duh
written by Malem , March 06, 2012
Missed the point, so Ill restate for you. Clement claimed getting rid of the Holy Quran would solve the worlds problems of violence, I showed him the violence over the years by large majority was not committed by Muslims.

Back to the name calling eh?
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Malman the perfect Doctor
written by duh_swami , March 06, 2012
I showed him the violence over the years by large majority was not committed by Muslims.

When do you address the mob violence that has/is happening, and is done by Muslims stimulated by Quran and examples of Mohammad...You are deep into denial...You want to refer to others violence while conveniently ignoring that coming from Islam...That's a common theme, condemn others, exalt Islam...Doesn't work, you have to do better...

Back to the name calling eh?

What name calling? Are you smoking funny tobacco?
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Still missing the point
written by Malem , March 06, 2012
Proverbs 23:9 but anyway the point was Clement claimed getting rid of the Holy Quran would solve the worlds problems of violence, I showed him the violence over the years by large majority was not committed by Muslims. This is too easy, you ask the same questions, I give you the same answers.
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Doctor Pious
written by duh_swami , March 06, 2012
Maybe I get points you miss...At any rate you still believe in fairy tales, so your not credible...

I didn't ask you about who is the biggest and baddest, I asked you to address the massacres committed by Muslims, but it is clear you're not going to address it...You need to define what you mean by massacre...How many people have to be killed how fast, to make it a massacre...Would 100,000,000 Hindus killed in India over 700+ years of Muslim rule qualify for a massacre?
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To Malem
written by Archpagan , March 06, 2012
Question here is not violence or crime per se, but the question is whether such crime/violence is inspired by a filthy book like Koran. Mein kempf is one such filthy book. But, there is no follower of Mein Kempf now, whereas followers of Koran are available in plenty. That's a cause of grave concern for the future of humanity. You can fool yourself only by your Taqquya.

Please answer the two simple questions:

(1) Whether Koran Contains verses that can be interpreted as giving divine sanction to commit violence against non-Muslims. (2) Whether all Koran lovers should be held accountable/complicit for every Koran inspired violence.
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Malem
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 07, 2012
I am still waiting for your proofs of the Quran I showed you ten proofs you have not given even one for the Quran

You listed names of People who were tyrants in the political spheres. But you forget the fact that none of these people committed their tyranny in the name of a religion. Only Mohammed the tyrant of Medina claim that he also was a tyrant because his deity Allah permitted him to kill, murder, rape assassinate, commit incest and all sorts of Crime in the name of Allah. He even claimed that he became victorious through terror. A claim no one can refute.


Don't you know that it that alibi of religion that civilised world are yet to uncovered that keeps Islam going?
Any day that alibi is removed, Islam will go like Nazism, and communism and your so called bugus prophet will then be truely knon as a true Pirate and a |Tyrant and not true prophet of any deity called Allah.

Malem, with all level of enlightenment and education is that kind of person will place your destiny in his hands. A person that did not even know where he was going after death?
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Pastor
written by Muslim and proud , March 07, 2012
Where in your scriptures does it say you should be proud to be full of hatred ab prejudice?

Is it 14:26 by any chance?
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M&P
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 07, 2012
No My friend I am only wondering aloud, that a man of knowledge and intelligence like Malem should place his destiny in the hand of somebody like Mohammed. Whom even the book he concocted as scriptures did not cover his lies and hypocrisy. Both his book called the Quran and the witnesses report called the Hadith condemned him as a hypocrite, a liar, a womanizer, a mass murderer an assassin, a false prophet and a tyrant who calls himself the messenger of Allah.

As for you I don’t know how learned you are, your performance so far shows that even you are ignorant of what your scriptures says. So I petty you.

I don't usually have you in mind when I make a post because I don't know where to place you.
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Archpagan
written by Malem , March 07, 2012
1) Interpretation is up to the individual, any book or writing can be interpreted an infinite amount of ways so to try and quantify that is impossible. Is it possible that someone who reads the Holy Quran or Bible or Torah or any writing interpret it incorrectly and derive some sort of deviant message out of it, yes that is possible but Wrong.
2) I know no Quran Lovers, there are however people who do abide by the writings and lessons contained in the Quran that is true. I am responsible for my behavior as Allah has bestowed man with free will. So if you are stating anyone who belongs to any religion has to be responsible for every single individual who "says" they are part of that religion, I would have to disagree. My reasoning is that for example if a man commits a crime, not allowed in Islam, he is not following the Quran and thus has seperated himself from Islam.
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M&P/Malem
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 07, 2012
"Where in your scriptures does it say you should be proud to be full of hatred ab prejudice? "

What is hateful in want I posted or prejudice?

No My friend I am only wondering aloud, that a man of knowledge and intelligence like Malem should place his destiny in the hand of somebody like Mohammed. Whom even the book he concocted as scriptures did not cover his lies and hypocrisy. Both his book called the Quran and the witnesses report called the Hadith condemned him as a hypocrite, a liar, a womanizer, a mass murderer an assassin, a false prophet and a tyrant who calls himself the messenger of Allah.

If you are looking for a prophet to folllow are there no good prophet to follow there example. Which of the past Islamic prophet behave like Mohammed? Mohammed said there 240,000 prophets he only named 25 and they are all jews. He said he was greater than Jesus. I just gave a comparism of Mohammed and Jesus in one of the thread you need to see.

As for you I don’t know how learned you are, your performance so far shows that you are ignorant of what your scriptures says. So I pity you even the more
0
The good Doctor speaks
written by duh_swami , March 07, 2012
1) Interpretation is up to the individual, any book or writing can be interpreted an infinite amount of ways

More obfuscation and tu quequo...talk a lot admit nothing...often called denial...

Every jihadi terrorist that got caught, justified his jihad by virtue of Quran and examples of Mohammad...There must be a whole lot of misinterpreting going on in Islam...Strange all these people misinterpret in exactly the same way...
There are only two kinds of Muslims, those conducting some form of jihad and those in reserve...All Muslims are required to participate in jihad as a duty to Allah...Malman is not exempt...


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Du-Swami
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 07, 2012
"There are only two kinds of Muslims, those conducting some form of jihad and those in reserve...All Muslims are required to participate in jihad as a duty to Allah...Malman is not exempt... "

I agree with you Malem is a reserved jihadist. No one among them is really against the terrorism that is carried out in accordance with the Quran instruction.


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To Malem
written by Archpagan , March 07, 2012
If Koran's verses are eternal and applicable in all situations, then violent verses or verses of the sword can carry just one meaning. If you want to impute context, which reduces Koran to the status of a mere historical record, you do have a different meaning.

For your actions harming others you will be held responsible by the law of the land. Communist insurgents operating in various countries, the LTTE in Sri Lanka or the Irish Republican Army of Northern Ireland never claimed that they were carrying on war as per God's order given in such and such scriptures. So, no Christian/Hindu/Buddhist can be held responsible for their actions. But as a follower of the so-called message of Allah you should at least own up moral responsibility of the violence committed in the name of Islam, if you consider yourself a descent human being.

What should be your duty if somebody 'misinterprets' your holy book to commit crime against humanity?
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Mr Pastor - The Islamaphobe
written by Muslim & Proud , March 07, 2012
What is hateful in want I posted or prejudice?


Here you go Mr Pastor

But in Islam it is external show of piety by watching hands legs, ass up facing Blackstone towards Kaaba, and circumbulation of it ,with pagan religious fasting in the month of Ramadan, the pagan tax system of Zakat belief in one imaginary Allah with Mohammed as his partner or puppet gangster.


Where in your scriptures of NT did your lord and saviour say such things about other faiths?

You said:

Christ message of love, forgiveness and mercy is timeless and sufficient to take anyone to heaven.


So in your A-Z, where is the message of:

Love
Mercy
& Forgiveness

Please confirm Mr Pastor........
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M&P
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 07, 2012
How can you hear the message of love when you pitched your tent with the most vile person that ever lived on this planet earth as your prophet who will guide you to eternal salvation. Even when the guy told you point blank that he was just a worner who does not know where himself will go yet all the morons of this world file behind him that they will follow him. What a pity

If you want to hear the message of love, mercy and hope pick the Bible and read it,believe and obey it.
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M&P
written by Clement-Islam- Watch Pastor , March 07, 2012
You asked "So in your A-Z, where is the message of: Love Mercy & Forgiveness "

You go to the God of the Bible and ask him for forgiveness and you will get it free of charge if only you can repent and renounce your cult and burn those your occultic books called the Quran and hadiths.

Why should you stick to a god that did not offer free salvation to you?

If he is actually your creator, did you ask him to create you and why should you have to prostrate and beg him with your ass up all the times and continually and fasting and traveling a long distance to his house in mecca only to circumbulate the blackstones house and through pebbles at Satan before he can save you. Allah is not fair in this instance.

But the God of the Bible because is the God of all creation including you he offers free salvation for you and me. He wants you that after repentance and faith in the gift of salvation who is Christ, you should relate to him as children and their father, not as slaves and servants master-relationship. When you want something from your father do go to him and do the ass ups before he listen to you? No that is should give you signal that Islam is fake.

Jesus said we call on our father in heaven to give us all we need including our daily bread.

Our God is a loving God and a merciful God . I don't know why you call your god a mercifull God when there is no mercy nor giveness for siners no space to rest, five times you have to be on your kness doing the ass ups, untill your knees are worn out and your forehead black. This one God of yours looks like a task master and not a saviour.
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Mr Pastor - Islamaphobe
written by Muslim and proud , March 07, 2012
Mr Pastor,

How can you hear the message of love when you pitched your tent with the most vile person that ever lived on this planet


Please confirm from the NT where your lord and saviour said such things to anybody?

If you want to hear the message of love, mercy and hope pick the Bible and read it,believe and obey it.


So you are asking me to obey something which YOU YOURSELF are not obeying?

This is just absurd Mr Pastor.

You need to start preaching the message of love, peace and forgiveness Mr Pastor.

Ps. It is not possible to HEAR by reading a book Mr Pastor (you said :"I you want to HEAR the message of love, mercy and hope pick the Bible and READ)

Once again, well done for making an absolute fool of yourself.
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Archpagan
written by Malem , March 07, 2012
There is an easy answer to your question ---What should be your duty if somebody 'misinterprets' your holy book to commit crime against humanity? They are not Muslim if they have carried out a crime that is dissallowed in the Holy Quran, so my duty as with all men would be to defend against terrible actions.

I notice the Pastor has been getting quite colorful with his language, unbecoming a pastor actually.
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To Archpagan
written by fineliving56 , March 07, 2012
I am still unable to post from my computer so I had to wait to post in IW from some where else ... thanks to Muslim and Muslim brothers and their cheating tricks

I agree with you that it is up to us the Arabic speaking ex Muslims to extract Islam from the hearts [ I am sorry to say] of the clueless of non Muslims like my friend and others.... like we extract a poisonous worm that housed it self in the skin ... it hard to do ... but it could be done.

The reason it is so difficult is because it is hard to approach a Muslimah ... with the truth about Islam ... I do not know which words will set them off and alert her husbands and you know waht happens after that ...

believe me I had bad ones ... many times ..

I know I lost a friend who do not call me any more ...because I just Questioned in front of her the wisdom behind marrying a 9 year old.... Questioning is haram ...

Anyway... a friend who cant have the screws in her brain to question, sleeping with children and there for condones such a disgusting thing, is no friend of mine ...

We have a long road ahead of us to decimate Islam but we will get their ... we wont see it in our life time but the next generation will and that is fine with me

thank you.... Archpagan

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Fineliving56
written by Muslim and proud , March 07, 2012
extract Islam from the hearts [ I am sorry to say] of the clueless of non Muslims like my friend and others.


Is this what it means to be a cursed ex-Muslim?

Sad & pathetic

We have a long road ahead of us to decimate Islam


You really cannot move on.........sad & pathetic

No change then fineliving?
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Archpagan
written by fineliving56 , March 07, 2012
Mistake

I meant to say * non Arabic speaking Muslims * ... not... * non Muslims * in my post to you

sorry
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Fineliving56
written by Muslim & Proud , March 07, 2012
The reason it is so difficult is because it is hard to approach a Muslimah ... with the truth about Islam ... I do not know which words will set them off and alert her husbands and you know waht happens after that ...

believe me I had bad ones ... many times ..


So you had bad husbands........many times?

Maybe it was not the husbands that were bad - maybe it was you.
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Why are you Muslim and Proud
written by Yibel , March 07, 2012
Muslims consider Muhammad to be an ideal man who should be followed for all time to come. So, if this logic is to be accepted, human society should remain stagnant at 7th Century CE. All other people modernize their societal norms, laws and customs. But, Muslims want Shariah law, the law of the Arabian desert in the 7th century. Looting caravans, raping and pillaging was quite fair in the Arabian desert. Now Muslims look upon non-Muslim countries as a very rich caravan in the desert.

When Muslims call themselves "Muslim and proud", they actually feel proud to belong to the group the same way a teenager feels proud to belong in a gang. Its the whole gang mentality or the loyalty and pride a 7th century arab felt for his tribe. Read more at:
islam-watch.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=756
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Fineliving
written by Malem , March 07, 2012
How do you know it was specifically Muslims that are not enabling you to post? I find that quite hard to believe. Why not let people choose whatever religion they want, I think in the west they call it Freedom of Religion. I will tell people about Islam should they ask, but I never question my Christian or Buddhist or Jewish friends on the content of their religion, it is their choice. Its that whole Allah granting man free will thing.

Yibel - Why should one not be Muslim and Proud? An ideal man does not mean he does not embrace technology or the 21st century. An ideal man, obeying the will of Allah, taking care of his family, respecting others, that requires not specific time rather just being the Ideal Man as much as one can. In your reference to gangs, do you mean the gang that verball jumps on "Muslim&Proud" each time he posts? Being part of a religion is being part of a family, and its a nice thing.
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Malman sweet doctor
written by duh_swami , March 07, 2012
You're really a snake oil salesman sweet Doctor, but you are not quite slick enough to cover the poison behind your advertisements...Islam is an evil and murderous ideology that is played out on the world stage every day...Everyone posting here knows it, and everyone posting here see's it...You simply support evil, promote evil and advocate evil...Your really not very effective...
0
What is going on?
written by duh_swami , March 07, 2012
Why does the administrator keep protecting Malman from criticism?
0
Duh that is your opinion
written by Malem , March 07, 2012
Your opinion is just that an opinion, not fact. Just because several people on a blog want to participate in verbal jousting you cannot call what they present as facts unless there is credible proof of them. When you make accusations, such as accusing me of selling snake oil, you have no proof it is just your opinion. See how this works? Where I live there is no problems as you say there are, all religions in my area live in peaceful coexistence and our families are quite happy. If you presented your arguments civily there is a good chance they will not be de-posted.
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...
written by Tommy , March 08, 2012
Nice to see taqiyya alive and well
Compare the behaviour of the messenger muhammad to the Christian Jesus (not the muslim iesa who was born to miriam the sister of moses and aeron 1500 years before Jesus was born and when it was thought the trinity was the father,mother miriam and iesa.

muhammad is the antithesis of Jesus
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Tommy
written by Muslim & Proud , March 08, 2012
Nice to see taqiyya alive and well


Please describe Taqiyya, with relevant reference(s)?

Good luck.
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On Zakaat
written by Editor, M A Khan , March 08, 2012
Mr Khan, we are not talking about tradition -- we are talking about Islam (religion).
Islam is not always absolutely what the Quran says. The Quran doesn't say that Muslim must pray five times a day, neither does it say, prayer should include those mimicry that Muslims do. That doesn't mean that daily five-time prayers and all those mimicry associated with it is not Islam.

In Islam, praying is obligatory, but very few Muslims say regular prayers in countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh , Indonesia etc. That doesn't mean that they are not Muslims or not followers of Islam.

Similarly Zakaat has to be paid on one's own free will -- you call it obligatory or not. The state doesn't enforce payment of zakat. When doing something is not forced upon, it becomes voluntary. Whatever the Quran might say, that has been the exercise in Muslim societies. And that's what I have sought to mean.

You may claim that there was never any Islam in the world, because zakat payment was not forced upon Muslims. That's your opinion, but be careful to express it in front of Muslims.
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Mr Khan
written by Malem , March 08, 2012
Mr Kahn the Holy Quran if correctly read does indicate 3 prayer times and it does explicity mention prayer. Zakaat according to the Holy Quran directs people to donate their "excess" which would certaintly make sense anywhere in society.
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@ Mr Khan
written by Muslim & Proud , March 08, 2012
Mr Khan,

When doing something is not forced upon, it becomes voluntary.


(9:60) As a matter of fact, Zakat collections are only for the needy and the indigent, and for those who are employed to collect them and for those whose hearts are to be won over and for the ransoming of slaves and for helping the debtors and for the way of Allah and for the hospitality of the wayfarers. This is an obligatory duty from Allah: and Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

You are still thinking it is voluntary - never mind.......

Please remember to provide the 3 references which you have conveniently side stepped.
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@Malem: People practised charity before Islam
written by Editor, M A Khan , March 08, 2012
I have never said Zakaat doesn't make sense. In Islam, zakaat is the only things Muslims have to the state, which is insufficient.

People have practised charity before Islam. Muhammad copied 2.5% charity idea from the Jews. And you should know that Hatem Tai, the famed charitable man of Arabia lived in Muhammad's time. After Muhammad became powerful, he attacked that community, plundered their wealth, and enslaved and carried away his daughter. Charity is not an Islamic invention or anything.
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@ Mr Khan
written by Muslim & Proud , March 08, 2012
After Muhammad became powerful, he attacked that community, plundered their wealth, and enslaved and carried away his daughter.


Please provide evidence Mr Khan that:

1 - Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) attacked Banu Tai (the community of Hatim Tai)
2 - Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) carried away Safana (daughter of Hatim Tai)
3 - Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) enslaved Safana

Good luck........I'm waiting and I hope you do better than you did with the 3 references.....
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muslim and proud
written by Tommy , March 08, 2012


Taqiyya
Abu Hamid al-Ghazali one of islams greatest theologians provides an accurate definition
Speaking is a means to achieve objectives If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying,it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not telling the truth,it is permissible to lie if the goal is obligatory
I suppose a prime example of lying to achieve a goal would be found in
Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369 :
Narrated by Jabir bin 'Abdullah
Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it."


Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru al-makireena

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Tommy
written by Muslim & Proud , March 08, 2012
The religion of peace website is misleading you my friend.

Here is the definition, with an example:

It has been narrated by Abd al-Razak, Ibn Sa'd, Ibn Jarir, Ibn Abi Hatim,
Ibn Mardawayh that:

"The nonbelievers arrested `Ammar Ibn Yasir (RA) and (tortured him
until) he (RA) uttered foul words about the Prophet (PBUH), and
praised their gods (idols); and when they released him (RA), he (RA)
went straight to the Prophet (PBUH). The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said:
"Is there something on your mind?" `Ammar Ibn Yasir (RA) said: "Bad
(news)! They would not release me until I defamed you (PBUH) and
praised their gods!" The Prophet (PBUH) said: "How do you find
your heart to be?" `Ammar (RA) answered: "Comfortable with faith." So
the Prophet (PBUH) said: "Then if they come back for you, then do
the same thing all over again." Allah (SWT) at that moment revealed
the verse: "....except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in
faith...[16:106]"

So the conditions of Taqiyya are that a muslim must be in danger of losing his life.....and anything that is said by the tongue, must be rejected by the heart.
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M&Proficient
written by duh_swami , March 08, 2012
So the conditions of Taqiyya are that a muslim must be in danger of losing his life.

So Muslims who lie to protect Islam are not practicing taqiyya, they are just regular liars...Thanks for clearing that up, sweet man......
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sweet guy
written by duh_swami , March 08, 2012
So the conditions of Taqiyya are that a muslim must be in danger of losing his life

I suppose that means tha lying to protect Islam is just regular fibbing...Thanks for explaining that
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Inability of people to read
written by Muslim & Proud , March 08, 2012
I suppose that means tha lying to protect Islam is just regular fibbing...Thanks for explaining that


Some people cannot read simple english.

If a muslim is in danger of his life - he/sh can lie about his/her beliefs - providing the words uttered by the tongue are not accepted by the heart.

Some people (like Duh) use Wikepdia as a reference to missliles being fired and they also say that Wikepdia is fiction - what a joke.
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MrKhan
written by Malem , March 08, 2012
I dont claim that charity was an Islamic invention, it was not. However it is something in regards to your "Charity is not an Islamic invention or anything" . It is a way to help others that might not be as fortunate as you, which is a noble action. In the Holy Quran is states no % that should be given at all. As for Hatem, yes most Arabs will know him if not by the stories of him then by the old arabic phrase أكرم من حاتم
Of course maybe if ones name was karim you would feel you were generous! (arabic joke for those who dont know, Karim means generous)
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muslim and proud
written by Tommy , March 08, 2012
Thank you for your agreement -- your example is another aspect

Abu Hamid al-Ghazali 's definition can be said to be accurate
and a reminder
The messenger muhammad wanted a man murdered and said it was ok to tell lies (taqiyya)

Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369 :
Narrated by Jabir bin 'Abdullah
Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it."

now how did you get on comparing the life of muhammad to the Christian Jesus

Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru al-makireena
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Tommy
written by Muslim and proud , March 08, 2012
My example is the ONLY example of Taqiyya.

What you quote is not in any way linked to Taqiyya - it is the 'religion of peace website' which has misinformed you.
0
muslim and proud
written by Tommy , March 08, 2012
quote...The religion of peace website is misleading you my friend. ...Unquote

Could you explain how I could possibly be your "friend" as I understand that to be prohibited in islam
sura 5:51
NQ O you who believe! Take not the Jews an d the Christians as Auliyâ' (friends,
protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliyâ' to one another. And if any
amongst you takes them as Auliyâ', then surely he is one of them. Verily,
Allâh guides not those people who are the Zâlimûn (polytheists and
wrongdoers and unjust).
even the mufti's fatwa agrees with this
One is allowed to mix with non-muslims and chat with them on permissible topics, however they should not be made close friends. This of course is for those of your on gender. Chatting with the opposite gender is prohibited.

Your intention when dealing and chatting with them, should be to invite them towards Islam.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best
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Muslim husbands for fineliving56 ..... huh?
written by fineliving56 , March 08, 2012
"" maybe it was not the husbands that were bad, maybe it was you ""

Hahaha ... husbandS.... hahaha .... Muslims husbandS ....HAHAHAHA ...

Please .....my laughing tears are too much ... really .... really ??

Muslim and funny usually do not mix ... but that was funny...

So Muslim think, After I married a One Muslim husband, and I would try again with a new Muslim husband .... haha ... I wouldn't do that ... not even,if he was the last men on earth and ...."" * let me add this to make it clearer* ... NOT EVEN IN THE WHOLE UNIVERSE ... hahahahaha

For Muslim information ... my statement was not referring to " husbands " ... it was referring to friends ... friends .... girl friends ... not a friend that happen to be boys ... no.... Islam and Muslim husbands do not allow that for their wives ... friends of Muslim wives have to be all women ... as we all know .

Anyway ... maybe the reason for the misunderstanding is the way I worded my post ..

MY husband is a Muslim ... that is the * only * Husband I married and will ever do believe me when I say ... I will never do that mistake again ... ever

Is that a clear enough or not .... yes or no ??? ..... hahaha

I think I am going to laugh all day ... with this one in my mind ....lol





Oh
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muslim and proud
written by Tommy , March 08, 2012
Quote..My example is the ONLY example of Taqiyya..Unquote
Now on permissible lying
In both bukhari and muslim The prophet said-- He who settles disagreements between people to bring about good or says something commendable is not a liar
with muslim elaborating
I did not hear him permit untruth in anything people say-except for three things
1.War
2.Settling disagreements
3.A man talking with his wife

So you don't really understand "taqiyya" but thats ok-- how did you get on comparing the works of allas messenger to the works of the Christian Jesus
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Tommy
written by Muslim & Proud , March 08, 2012
Could you explain how I could possibly be your "friend" as I understand that to be prohibited in islam
sura 5:51
NQ O you who believe! Take not the Jews an d the Christians as Auliyâ' (friends,
protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliyâ' to one another. And if any
amongst you takes them as Auliyâ', then surely he is one of them. Verily,
Allâh guides not those people who are the Zâlimûn (polytheists and
wrongdoers and unjust).


Lol

Please remind me where you said you were a Jew or a Christian???

Even if you now say you are a Jew / Christian, you can't prove it can you.

Well done for tripping yourself up........my friend.

One is allowed to mix with non-muslims and chat with them on permissible topics, however they should not be made close friends.


So it is quite normal to speak to people........you seem to find this odd.

Your intention when dealing and chatting with them, should be to invite them towards Islam.


Thank you for confirming that it is always about "invitation" and not compulsion - much appreciated.
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Fineliving - Gone Mad
written by Muslim & Proud , March 08, 2012
So Muslim think, After I married a One Muslim husband, and I would try again with a new Muslim husband .... haha ... I wouldn't do that ... not even,if he was the last men on earth and ...."" * let me add this to make it clearer* ... NOT EVEN IN THE WHOLE UNIVERSE ... hahahahaha


Here is what you previously said:

I do not know which words will set them off and alert her husbands and you know waht happens after that ...

believe me I had bad ones ... many times ..


Read it Fineliving.....I am aware your English is not up to scratch, but the above statement says:

BELIEVE ME
I HAD BAD ONES MANY TIMES

Lol - you did a good job of making yourself look very silly indeed - well done.
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muslim and proud
written by Tommy , March 08, 2012
so we have established your taqiyya on taqiyya

now on the topic of permissible lying
both bukhari and muslim agree the messenger stated-- he who settles disagreements between people to bring about good with muslim further elaborating
I did not hear him permit untruth in anything people say,except for three things
1.War
2.Settling disagreements
3.A man talking with his wife

Abu Hamid al-Ghazali is correct muslims are encouraged to lie when it furthers their interests
Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369 :
Narrated by Jabir bin 'Abdullah
Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it."

Btw -- how are we getting on comparing the deeds of muhammad to the deeds of the Christian Jesus-- I look forward to this



0
Tommy
written by Muslim & Proud , March 08, 2012
so we have established your taqiyya on taqiyya


Wrong - Taqiyya is only permissible when a muslims life is in danger. Period.

now on the topic of permissible lying
both bukhari and muslim agree the messenger stated-- he who settles disagreements between people to bring about good with muslim further elaborating
I did not hear him permit untruth in anything people say,except for three things
1.War
2.Settling disagreements
3.A man talking with his wife


Absolutely - you seem to find this to be a strange concept?

1 - War

If one of your soldiers is captured by the Taliban and they are tortured and asked where the rest of them are hiding...........errrrrrm.........your soldier was trained to TELL THE TRUTH right?

lol
lol

2 - Settling Disagreements

2 muslims are in disagreement. If a third muslim intends to bring about reconciliation, he/she is permitted to lie ON THE BASIS IT WILL BRING ABOUT RECONCILIATION.

3 - Husband & Wife

If there is a disagreement / dispute, it is permissible for the husband or the wife to lie, PROVIDING IT WILL BRING ABOUT RECONCILIATION. In this example, it is important to remember that Islam teaches muslims to have a happy marriage, which reduces the likelihood of disputes / disagreements, which in turn should prevent any lying that may bring about reconciliation.

Btw -- how are we getting on comparing the deeds of muhammad to the deeds of the Christian Jesus-- I look forward to this


Why on earth would I want to compare Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) with 'Christian Jesus' - lol - there is no such thing as 'Christian Jesus'........
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Moonies
written by duh_swami , March 08, 2012
2 muslims are in disagreement. If a third muslim intends to bring about reconciliation, he/she is permitted to lie ON THE BASIS IT WILL BRING ABOUT RECONCILIATION.

Sweet M&Precious...Haha, that's what the religious cult known as 'Moonies' said...They called it 'heavenly deceit' lying for God...and what happens when the lied to Muslim finds out he or she was lied to?...Haha...'oh what a tangled web we weave when we first start to deceive'...Instead of reconciliation, three enemies are created by the liar...Islamic logic is amazing...
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Addendum - Tommy
written by Muslim and proud , March 08, 2012
An obese woman is fed up with people calling her names and mocking her because of her weight

If the obese woman was about to jump off the top floor of a building and you were the only person who could stop her.......and she asked you:

Do you think I am overweight?

YOU WOULD HAE TO LIE SUNSHINE
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M&Precious
written by duh_swami , March 08, 2012
permitted to lie ON THE BASIS IT WILL BRING ABOUT RECONCILIATION.

What happens when the lied to finds out he was lied to? I don't think that type of lying is viable...
0
Old trick
written by Malem , March 08, 2012
I recall a Mr Spencer trying this trick on people before we he would misquote 3:28 and then state that lying was allowed. What he failed to do was present 3:24-3:28 and one can see when there is a special situation (like saving ones life etc) it is permissible to lie, otherwise it is not allowed in Islam.
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Duh_Swami
written by Muslim and proud , March 08, 2012
What happens when the lied to finds out he was lied to? I don't think that type of lying is viable


This is impossible - unless the person who is lying confesses......now why would anyone confess to lying, especially in a situation where reconciliation has been achieved?
0
Boyz
written by duh_swami , March 08, 2012
Secrets are hard to keep...No confessions are necessary, the lied to can read the lie in the newspapers...Or maybe their mother told them, you see behind every lie there is a 'somebody who knows the truth'...often this person is a blabber mouth who like some Muslims who post here, can't keep their mouths shut...
Honesty is always the best policy unless you are a Muslim...

Malman, dear doctor... if you want to put your money where your mouth is, you can invite Spencer to debate by e-mailing him at Director, jihad watch.org...but I have a suspicion it's easier to take pot shots at him from the safety of I-W than to actually face him...
0
Duh
written by Malem , March 08, 2012
What is a pot shot? I merely pointed out when he mis-quoted te Holy Quran to explain he case on the Lie topic. It happens quite frequently and is many times done on purpose. Oh and by the way you completely missed the entire point on Lie Topic, quite amusing.
0
@Muslim and Proud
written by Proud Infidel , March 08, 2012
An obese woman is fed up with people calling her names and mocking her because of her weight

If the obese woman was about to jump off the top floor of a building and you were the only person who could stop her.......and she asked you:

Do you think I am overweight?

YOU WOULD HAE TO LIE SUNSHINE
_______________________________________________________
___________________________________

THAT is your analogy? Since that scenario is highly unlikely to happen, we'll call it an attempt to ask a question with a pre-determined answer. You're argument is headed south real fast.
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Doctor glorious
written by duh_swami , March 08, 2012
What is a pot shot?

The pot shot dear doctor, sometimes called a 'cheap shot' is to declare Spencer wrong when he is not here to refute your erroneous statements...Cheap shots come easy huh sweet Doctor? I didn't miss any points on the lie subject because neither you nor your brother had a point...better luck next time sweet Doctor man...
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Duh
written by Malem , March 08, 2012
Oh I get it, so when you make assumptions about someone and they cannot defend themselves it is a cheap shot. Ok, that sounds fair...but wait a minute wouldnt that be what you are doing with Muslims, Mohammed etc..?
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To duh_swami, Malem
written by Archpagan , March 08, 2012
duh, Malem seems to have learn a lot from RW.

To Malem

'They are not Muslim if they have carried out a crime that is dissallowed in the Holy Quran, so my duty as with all men would be to defend against terrible actions.'

Your 'easy answer' quoted above, is no answer at all. Because, there is no agreement even among Muslims regarding what is allowed/disallowed in Koran. Your answer is designed to dupe the infidels. Among your fellow Muslims you will dance in joy if the terrorists make a successful strike on non-Muslims. I am specially concerned with Islam , because Muslims bad-mouth other people's Gods five times a day. La Illaha Illahallaha. Don't think that other religions are mirror image of your violent abusive cult named Islam. At least we Hindus and Buddhists do not negate other people's God.
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muslim and proud
written by Tommy , March 09, 2012
The basis of taqiyya
sura 3:58
Let not the believers take the disbelievers as Auliyâ (supporters, helpers,
etc.) instead of the believ ers, and whoever does that will never be helped by
Allâh in any way, except if you indeed fear a danger from them. And Allâh
warns you against Himself (His Punishment)[], and to Allâh is the final return.
In summary
muslims are allowed to lie at any time they or their religion feels threatened
==================================================

After the London bombings In July 2005 when islam may not have been perceived in a good light---Gul Mohammad, secretary general of the BMF, quoted the Koran saying: "Whoever kills a human being ... then it is as though he has killed all mankind; and whoever saves a human life it is as though he had saved all mankind."He went on: "Islam's position is clear and unequivocal: murder of one soul is the murder of the whole of humanity; he who shows no respect for human life is an enemy of humanity.
.....quoted as evidence of islam's peacefulness

But he omitted that it came from sura 5.32 which is a message for the Children of Israel and reads
Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allâh by committing the major sins) in the land!.[]

and is followed by sura 5:53 which advocates torture at the very least
The recompense of those who wage war against Allâh and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter.

What a conundrum







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Archpagan
written by Malem , March 09, 2012
My answer was easy, you asked, I provided you my answer. It is not every Muslims answer as I can only speak for myself. Not sure how it was designed to Dupe, then again maybe you did not understand the meaning of it and feel duped due to that?
As for your insuation that I would dance at another fellow mans suffering, that is an insult and generally people who insult others do so out of ignorance.
You indicate that Muslims bad mouth other peoples god 5 times a day. How is that? By saying there is only one god? If you believe in Buddah do you say Namo Amida Buddha or Namo Amida Buddha and Allah and Jesus etc.. No you dont. So but not including a god someone else believes in does not mean that they are badmouthing them, that is just silly. Hwoever if you do believe that is the case then you would have to agree that Buddist are badmouthing all other religions as well
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muslim and proud
written by Tommy , March 09, 2012
"there is no such thing as 'Christian Jesus'....."
What a foolish person you are-the Christian Jesus has a history that you can follow ,you can walk his paths,you can know his friends and most of all appreciate what he did on the cross--- all charted and reported by Christian and non Christian alike

As to iesa-- a product of muhammads imagination with no history other than in muhammads head and likewise the trinity father god,mother god(Miriam) and iesa
Oh and the Christian Jesus never received a book (injil)

you also state
Please remind me where you said you were a Jew or a Christian???
Even if you now say you are a Jew / Christian, you can't prove it can you.
Well done for tripping yourself up........my friend.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt assuming you would know that those who are not people of the book have no choice as to their future-- Christians and Jews are the only ones who are offered the chance to pay the "don't kill me tax" and if they refuse they can be put to death
I noticed earlier a person a " Hindu" commenting-- perhaps you should ask him about the Hindu Holocaust--- there are not many places today known by names like the Hindu Kush
0
why in the world
written by Mossad666 , March 11, 2012
why in the world, the islamists think that they are the only person who are right,sane mind. others when point out their faults gets fatwa, killed raped, humiliated. if someone criticize the faults in christianism, judaism, hindusm, buddhist, shinto, does any of the offender recieves fatwa, murder etc? no. if u proud to be muslim, then think.
its a fact that koran was compiled, and nt written by a single person during the Kalifa Othman days.
tell me, the clerics of muslim world justify the fatwas and killings of non muslim from the same passages written here from koran, hadith. if the are doing wrong than why u damn people dnt pursue them. not a single cleric opposes the killing of minority muslim and non muslims in nigeria, iraq, iran, jordan, pakistan, indonessia. Jiziya is piece of shit, thats a burden upon non muslim, and there is no proper guidance fixing it. its a tax to save your family frm rape, prosecuition, murder by muslim. is there any another religeon imposing any tax to save life? no. proud to be musalman, you are in Uk thats why u are free to say these things come to pakistan, u will shout allahu akbar, kill the kafirs as allah ordered to :(

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About the book || Reviews by: Steven Simpson | Abul Kasem | Prof Sami Alrabaa | Ibn Kammuna

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